Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American Scott Floon Show
Speaker 1: on seven hundred WLW. So we got some breaking news
Speaker 1: to share with you this morning about crime in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: Robert Shaw has now been charged in the murder with
Speaker 1: that drive by shooting to kill the thirty four old
Speaker 1: man by the name of Justin Johnson right after Thursday
Speaker 1: night football. This is on Sycamore in front of the
Speaker 1: in Between Tavern. Happened about two am, so people are
Speaker 1: still downtown celebrating the Big Bengals when Shaw was wearing
Speaker 1: an ankle monitor at the time. Does the story sound familiar? Sure?
Speaker 1: And the reason why I was under a house arrest
Speaker 1: so to speak, was carried concealed weapon, illegal gun possession
Speaker 1: and here he is being held on that, being about
Speaker 1: to go and trial on that, and now he's out
Speaker 1: there doing it again. So initially he was released on
Speaker 1: a twenty thousand dollars bond with the electronic monitoring that
Speaker 1: was back in June. Also, the suspect in the Fountain
Speaker 1: Square shooting last week has turned himself in. Twenty four
Speaker 1: year old Shaquille Ferguson said it's self defense because the
Speaker 1: people that he shot at through the window of Citty
Speaker 1: Bird Chicken on Fountain Square were actually armed themselves and
Speaker 1: pointing a gun at him. The only problem with that
Speaker 1: argument from Clyde Bennett is that mister Ferguson was already
Speaker 1: on probation in July for a violent crime, which means
Speaker 1: he's under disability and shouldn't have had the gun that
Speaker 1: he shot the window out and at the people to
Speaker 1: the city Bird. So we're back to this question. Is
Speaker 1: our probation and monitoring system completely broken and beyond repair?
Speaker 1: On that is the honorable Betsy Sunderman, She's a judge
Speaker 1: in Hamlin County, joining the show to discuss here on
Speaker 1: seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 2: How are you good morning? I'm great, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm doing final though you hear these stories, I'd love
Speaker 1: to not be talking about violent crime in Cincinnati, but
Speaker 1: you know, we have shoes dropping and now we know
Speaker 1: the backgrounds of the individuals and jackets on Robert Shaw
Speaker 1: and Shaquille Ferguson. You have two people yet again that
Speaker 1: should not be armed by law, and yet there they are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And if there's, if there are any issues
Speaker 2: with probation monitoring right now, it is interesting for your
Speaker 2: listeners to know who is in charge of the probation officers.
Speaker 2: It's the judges. The judges hire the probation officers and
Speaker 2: make sure they're doing their jobs. So if we're having
Speaker 2: issues with probation monitoring, I mean, I haven't heard this
Speaker 2: issue before in the past. And it's interesting. Now we
Speaker 2: have a lot of Democrat judges who are in charge
Speaker 2: of the probation department and that seems to be the
Speaker 2: big change, and now we're not very happy with probation monitoring. So,
Speaker 2: for example, about a month ago, the Democrat majority of
Speaker 2: judges and Common Police Criminal Court decided to get rid
Speaker 2: of some of these, well all of the probation substations.
Speaker 2: So there used to be these substations in the most
Speaker 2: violent neighborhood and people who are on probation could go
Speaker 2: meet with those probation officers there, and the probation officers
Speaker 2: could set up shop there and they could visit people
Speaker 2: in their homes. But now the Democrat judges have gotten
Speaker 2: rid of those and they said, well, it's more efficient
Speaker 2: because now our probation officers can all be downtown. Well
Speaker 2: that's true, maybe it's more efficient as far as you know,
Speaker 2: they don't have to drive places, but they're not able
Speaker 2: to monitor people.
Speaker 1: Well, they're not in the community. So now they got
Speaker 1: it a far further to monitor the people instead of
Speaker 1: being in the neighborhood. It'd be kind of like just
Speaker 1: having one big police station district one as opposed to
Speaker 1: the multi different districts in and around Cincinnati. For cops,
Speaker 1: you put them where the people in the crimes are exactly,
Speaker 1: and if they're.
Speaker 2: Visiting people in their homes, then people are picking up
Speaker 2: more violations when the probation officers are seeing things in
Speaker 2: their home. So of course the stats are going to
Speaker 2: show a year from now that there are fewer probation violations.
Speaker 2: But that's because the monitor monitoring is going to be subpar,
Speaker 2: and as we see the monitoring get worse and worse,
Speaker 2: we're going to people out there offending. For example. I mean,
Speaker 2: I really can't speak specifically to a case, but if
Speaker 2: there's a case where someone, for example, is on the
Speaker 2: ankle monitor but has privileges for something, sometimes it's hard
Speaker 2: to monitor those privileges. So like let's say I was
Speaker 2: on an ankle monitor and I had privileges to go
Speaker 2: to work. Well, that's easy because I work at one
Speaker 2: location and I work from the same time I start
Speaker 2: and the same time I end every day. But a
Speaker 2: lot of people don't have jobs like that. A lot
Speaker 2: of people, you know, maybe they work construction, or they
Speaker 2: work at a hospital, or they work odd hours. And
Speaker 2: how do you monitor someone when they always say, well,
Speaker 2: I was on my way to a construction job.
Speaker 1: Or in the cases this is Betsy Sunderman ferguson the
Speaker 1: Fountain Square shoot at Teddy Bird. This young man has
Speaker 1: a two cases pending for aggravated assault, both with a
Speaker 1: weapon specification. There he shot someone two days prior, allegedly
Speaker 1: a northside before he shot the window out in Fountain
Speaker 1: Square and shout at the people there, And yet he
Speaker 1: was on probation from the other one saying, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: as long as you're out looking for a job, it's fine.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a good idea. Turn your
Speaker 1: application at City Bird and then turn around and shoot
Speaker 1: their window out, albeit not to shoot at the bird's window,
Speaker 1: shoot the people in the bird. But still, I'm pretty sure,
Speaker 1: you know, if I'm doing the hiring that kind of
Speaker 1: behaviors frowned upon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it depends what kind of job they're
Speaker 2: trying to book, but it's unlikely that that would meet
Speaker 2: the job description. Right. But by having these rules that
Speaker 2: seem really tough, but then not enforcing them properly, this
Speaker 2: is the way that the politicians can say we're combating
Speaker 2: crime but really doing nothing. For example, like the mayor
Speaker 2: and his juvenile curfew. Whenever a juvenile either shoot someone
Speaker 2: or get shot, he says, we're gonna tighten up this curfew.
Speaker 2: But then if you look at the actual rules of
Speaker 2: the juvenile curfew, if a child is out, if someone
Speaker 2: under eighteen is out and they say that they're on
Speaker 2: their way to work or on their way home from work,
Speaker 2: you can't make them go home, or you can't violate
Speaker 2: them for the curfew. If they say that they are
Speaker 2: exercising their First Amendment rights, which could be the freedom
Speaker 2: of speech, of assembly, they could freedom of the press, church.
Speaker 1: They're on their way to church, Bessie when they shot
Speaker 1: that person exactly.
Speaker 2: And then even if the kid says, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: not I have no exception that fits, then the police
Speaker 2: all they can do is say, you know, we'd really
Speaker 2: like you to go home, And if the kid says no,
Speaker 2: then they'd say well, we'd really like you to go
Speaker 2: to this, uh, this rec center, and if the kid
Speaker 2: says no, they can't, they can't do anything. So it's
Speaker 2: great that the mayor's on TV saying we're tightening up
Speaker 2: this curfew. If if you're there and you're doing anything bad,
Speaker 2: we're going to rush you.
Speaker 1: But it's just not playing out like that, all right,
Speaker 1: Betsy Sunderman, Judge Sunderman, this yere on the show and
Speaker 1: we're talking about probation and monitoring systems. Are they broken
Speaker 1: beyond repair? Robert Shaw, that was the man who's now
Speaker 1: been charged the drive by shooting. They killed thirty fear
Speaker 1: old Justin Johnson after Thursday night football right right near
Speaker 1: the in between tavern on Thursday night Friday morning. He
Speaker 1: was already out on a lot. He was wearing the
Speaker 1: ankle monitor at the time he shot the individual in
Speaker 1: the car. Justin Johnson form what I understand. People I
Speaker 1: know knew this guy and said, yeah, he's a professional,
Speaker 1: you know, seemed to be an upstanding guy who I
Speaker 1: don't know why he and Robert Shaw got into a
Speaker 1: beef and what was over. We don't know that. But
Speaker 1: the background is not Justin Johnson is not a street criminal.
Speaker 1: He's a professional, or was a professional before he was
Speaker 1: murdered in the Shaquille Ferguson shooting at City Bird Chicken.
Speaker 1: He was armed again, had priors, who's out on probation
Speaker 1: for a violent crime, and he shot the window out
Speaker 1: and trying to shoot at the people inside City Bird.
Speaker 1: His attorney, Clyd Bennett cleim self defense. We'll see about that.
Speaker 1: I do I'm not quite sure how that works within
Speaker 1: the law. If you're prohibited from having a weapon because
Speaker 1: you're on probation and you shoot at someone, I'm not
Speaker 1: quite sure that that is going to it's it's not
Speaker 1: like ofsetting penalties in the NFL. And then you play
Speaker 1: it over in that regard to Betsy sentiment though, And
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting in pointing out, because we've talked
Speaker 1: about the problem in its progressivism in Cincinnati, that that
Speaker 1: that's fueling this it's because we want to hands off
Speaker 1: no bail policy and we want to be kindler and
Speaker 1: gentlemen with people who are suspected at crimes because their
Speaker 1: life is already difficult, and well, it just gives the
Speaker 1: sociopaths out there more license to do stuff like this.
Speaker 1: I will point out, however, in both those cases in
Speaker 1: Sean Ferguson, those are both conservative Republican judges that ordered
Speaker 1: them on monitoring, and that would be Judge dink Locker
Speaker 1: and Judge Ruleman. Does that change the math a little
Speaker 1: bit on.
Speaker 2: This, well, I'll tell you those are two of the
Speaker 2: judges who give the biggest bombs. So without being able
Speaker 2: to talk to I can't call them and ask them
Speaker 2: about the case and then talk about it on the videos,
Speaker 2: right right, But I would trust that those judges would
Speaker 2: set appropriate bonds. There's a trifecta that kind of effects
Speaker 2: every time someone's upset about someone being on parole or
Speaker 2: probation and being out there and committing crimes. There's a
Speaker 2: trifecta that affects all this. There's the police, there's the
Speaker 2: probation department, and the judges. So the police are controlled by,
Speaker 2: of course the police chief, who is controlled by the
Speaker 2: city manager, who is ultimately controlled by the mayor. So
Speaker 2: the police department is controlled by the mayor. And then
Speaker 2: we have probation, which I already told you is controlled
Speaker 2: by the judges, the now liberal Democrat judges. And then
Speaker 2: we have the judges themselves, which are now a majority
Speaker 2: Democrat liberal judges, so that basically the two groups that
Speaker 2: are controlling all this is the mayor, the city manager,
Speaker 2: the city administration, and the liberal judges. So if we're
Speaker 2: seeing a big change, those are the big changes. Of course,
Speaker 2: we've had a Democrat mayor for probably fifty years, right,
Speaker 2: but the way the mayor is affecting the police department
Speaker 2: is different than ever before. And then all having a
Speaker 2: majority liberal, progressive Democrat judges is new for us in
Speaker 2: Hamilton County.
Speaker 1: Look look look at it. Look at how the mayor's
Speaker 1: office impacted the brawl, and that he was demanding that
Speaker 1: the white guy be charged because he's a white guy.
Speaker 1: We've got to balance things out racially. Apparently, if yourest
Speaker 1: a personal caller, you got aggressive white guy, even though
Speaker 1: he was the victim. Clearly this whole thing, and no
Speaker 1: one wanted to write that citation and unfortunately made a
Speaker 1: captain down at the Central Business dictor to it who
Speaker 1: wasn't even on the scene. To show you how politically
Speaker 1: motivated those charges were. Just to appease the vocal contingent
Speaker 1: of folks in the community who were screaming about restorative justice,
Speaker 1: which is which is a farce. But relative to Robert Shaw,
Speaker 1: I don't know. This may be a tough question you
Speaker 1: neither answer to you can I understand you have a
Speaker 1: canon of ethics you have to abide by. You can't
Speaker 1: criticize other judges. But in the shawcase, this is a
Speaker 1: drive by from Thursday night football in from the in
Speaker 1: between that was under Judge Dinkelocker. The guy Robert Shaw
Speaker 1: was on a twenty thousand dollars bond with electronic monitoring
Speaker 1: and this was from a case back in June. His
Speaker 1: jacket is this nineteen ninety eight six months in prison
Speaker 1: for coke possession, two thousand and three six months for
Speaker 1: concealed weapon, illegal guns, receiving Spoling Property RSP. And then
Speaker 1: twenty eleven and then again in twenty fifteen he did
Speaker 1: prison time for allegal gun possession. He got twenty thousand
Speaker 1: dollars bond, an electronic monitoring out and murdered someone while
Speaker 1: he was wearing the ankle monitor. What would you prescribe
Speaker 1: what would you prescribe as a punishment for Robert Shaw?
Speaker 1: If we're in front of you, let's say, and he
Speaker 1: was already out on bond for another shooting. How many
Speaker 1: more times do you give someone a chance to get
Speaker 1: out on bond even though they have priors involving a weapon,
Speaker 1: because it tells me they're probably just going to do
Speaker 1: something with a gun.
Speaker 2: Again, Yeah, I mean, what do you? I mean, what
Speaker 2: do you do with someone who clearly is never going
Speaker 2: to put down a gun? Right? I mean, this guy,
Speaker 2: it sounds like you've been in prison quite a few
Speaker 2: times for having guns. He just keeps he just keeps
Speaker 2: picking up a gun, right. I mean, again, I can't
Speaker 2: speak to this exact case, but I do trust judge
Speaker 2: take a locker and if he set that bond, I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. I can't really speak
Speaker 2: to a specific case.
Speaker 1: Well what were you? What would you've done? Now, again,
Speaker 1: you have the hindsight that this guy's going to murder
Speaker 1: someone over apparently it's just a beef. It doesn't look
Speaker 1: like they knew each other at this point. We'll find out.
Speaker 1: But what And you can't look in the crystal ball
Speaker 1: and say, well, he's going to go out and murder someone.
Speaker 1: You don't know that, because there are probably countless people
Speaker 1: are in the situation that going out and do it.
Speaker 1: But we're talking about stopping this from happening in the
Speaker 1: first place. Should we just say, hey, listen, you alrighty
Speaker 1: had a gun. Speck you go right to You're going
Speaker 1: to hold you and you're not going to get out,
Speaker 1: and you're not gonna be able to walk around. And
Speaker 1: you decide to do something stupid with a gun and
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have a gun. You're going to sit in
Speaker 1: jail until your trial.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I would want to look at
Speaker 2: his pre trial services sheet. So every single person who's
Speaker 2: arrested and put into the jail and has an arraignment
Speaker 2: the next morning in front of a judge, a municipal
Speaker 2: judge and pre trial services interviews the person and sees
Speaker 2: if they're a flight risk, sees how much money they
Speaker 2: could afford for a bond. They ask them a million
Speaker 2: different questions about drugs and guns and family members and
Speaker 2: community ties and do they have a job, that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. And the judge is able to look at
Speaker 2: that sheet. The prosecutor is not able to look at
Speaker 2: that sheet. I know that because I used to work
Speaker 2: in that courtroom. One thing that we could do is
Speaker 2: we could give everyone access to that information that might
Speaker 2: be very helpful. I'm sure some of the new prosecutors
Speaker 2: have different strategies than when I was a prosecutor there
Speaker 2: because now they have a different boss. So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, giving everyone maximum information and maybe giving the
Speaker 2: media more information. I know the media doesn't see those
Speaker 2: pre trial services sheets. I'm not saying those should be
Speaker 2: turned over to the media, but usually that docket is
Speaker 2: very rapid, and the media kind of leaves confused, like, well,
Speaker 2: why did one person get a low bond and one
Speaker 2: person get a high bond? Right, So maybe making some
Speaker 2: of that more accessible.
Speaker 1: Why isn't I shared with the prosecutor if anyone else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. It's a good question. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I should know that, but then it should be shared
Speaker 2: with the defense attorney. If you can't share something just
Speaker 2: with a prosecutor and not the defense attorneys discovery, I
Speaker 2: don't know. Maybe there's no time. I mean it's a
Speaker 2: very quick docket. I mean, it's probably not as quick
Speaker 2: as it used to be because we not as many
Speaker 2: people are arrested because there aren't that many people in
Speaker 2: our jail at any more.
Speaker 1: But what I remember wasn't long ago under Sheriff Simon LEAs,
Speaker 1: and I know he's revered this community. I think there's
Speaker 1: something he did was way overreaching. I mean, like you know,
Speaker 1: but he was tough on crime for sure. And I
Speaker 1: remember having, you know, discussions about we need a bigger jail,
Speaker 1: we need more jail space because we can't house all
Speaker 1: the people. You don't hear that conversation anymore, and that was, like,
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen years ago, twenty years ago, it's simply
Speaker 1: because we're not holding people anymore.
Speaker 2: Right, Twenty years ago, sy Lease used to meet with
Speaker 2: all the judges and say, listen, we are bursting at
Speaker 2: the themes. I'm going to have to create some new
Speaker 2: work details and things so we can let the least
Speaker 2: violent people out earlier. And the judges would respond, you know,
Speaker 2: do what you need to do. We're going to do
Speaker 2: what we need to do. You know, we're not going
Speaker 2: to change our sentences. But you know, if you don't
Speaker 2: have room, you got to do what you need to do.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that conversation is happening now where the
Speaker 2: sheriff is saying, we don't have any room here, right.
Speaker 2: But even if we did try to arrest another two
Speaker 2: hundred people to fill up the jail. We don't have
Speaker 2: sheriff's deputies, we don't have enough corrections officers. Police officers
Speaker 2: have told me when they arrest juveniles now and they
Speaker 2: bring them to juvenile jail at twenty twenty, we call
Speaker 2: it twenty twenty. Auburn Avenue that most often twenty twenty
Speaker 2: just says we're not going to keep them. We just
Speaker 2: don't have enough employees. We just can't keep them. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 2: I don't know. Is it a policy issue? Is it
Speaker 2: a staffing issue. Is it people are vilifying police correction
Speaker 2: officers and then no one wants to do it, and
Speaker 2: then that's fulfill the plan to be understaffed and to
Speaker 2: not be able to lock people up. I don't know.
Speaker 1: If you look at the climate and CPD right now,
Speaker 1: we've got a huge number of officers retiring, even at
Speaker 1: early ages because they can't stand all the politics and
Speaker 1: the bs and what the mayor's office and how much
Speaker 1: control they have and how their hands are tied in
Speaker 1: a lot of cases, and they go to a suburban
Speaker 1: office or trying to do a latter recruiting, And I
Speaker 1: understand it's difficult because people go, well, the money's good,
Speaker 1: but you know what, I on the job in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: I'd rather stay where I am. It's not attractive to
Speaker 1: them because the climate created by the political ecosystem in
Speaker 1: Hamlin County, but specifically in the city of Cincinnati. She
Speaker 1: is a judge, Betsy Senderman, who's running for office. The
Speaker 1: cycle will know in a couple of weeks if she wins.
Speaker 1: But it's it's a tough job. But we've got to
Speaker 1: reform this system because ankle monitor the grant and there
Speaker 1: are probably thousands and thousands of people out there that
Speaker 1: abide by the terms of the deal they made with
Speaker 1: the judge and are trying to do the right thing.
Speaker 1: But how do we segregate the most violent people? And
Speaker 1: I'd say, if you have a gun specification history of
Speaker 1: priors with guns like this Robert schaugu I did, then
Speaker 1: I don't understand why we're giving you house arrest essentially
Speaker 1: because chances are you're going to break it. I think,
Speaker 1: if it's a gun speck, we already have laws in
Speaker 1: the books. Let's enforce federal law that if you're prohibited
Speaker 1: because of a felony prior felony from owning a fire arm,
Speaker 1: possessing a firearm. Then you go to jail right away
Speaker 1: and there is no release, there is no ankle monitoring
Speaker 1: going on, because you're a menace to society. Betsy Sunderban,
Speaker 1: I always appreciate the time and the insight. Thanks again.
Speaker 1: You have a wonderful day.
Speaker 2: Judge Clownix, I like it.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not going back to school. You ain't gonna
Speaker 1: get me there. Hell no, I'm not taking out more
Speaker 1: student loans. I'm I'm on the wrong side of fifty
Speaker 1: and I just finished paying mine off. Betsy, Oh the best,
Speaker 1: take care, see you later.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: We got a news update coming in momentarily and we'll
Speaker 1: chop it up next about what you just shared here.
Speaker 1: Surprise surprise, guys out on ankle monitors and house arrest
Speaker 1: and they're out shooting people.
Speaker 2: This is what this is.
Speaker 1: This is the government we deserve because we elected them
Speaker 1: seven hundred w Well them