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Speaker 1: You have to get It's the definitive best book ever

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Speaker 1: written about Johnny Carson. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Just

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Speaker 1: get this book, trust me, you love it. The book's

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Speaker 1: called Love Johnny Carson. It's by Mark Malkoff who for

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Speaker 1: the past few years has been doing the Carson Podcast,

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Speaker 1: and he's had six hundred guests, everybody that was ever

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Speaker 1: on the Tonight Show, everybody that ever worked at the

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Speaker 1: Tonight Show. It's rivening. I've listened to every episode, each

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Speaker 1: one two or three times. But get the new book

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Speaker 1: called Love Johnny Carson. The author is we us right now,

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Speaker 1: Mark Malkoff. How you doing, Mark, I'm doing great.

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Speaker 2: Nice to talk to you, sir.

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Speaker 1: Hey. Now here's the problem. You have a lot of

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Speaker 1: TV people today, talk show hosts, but they're just kind

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Speaker 1: of there. You don't have giants anymore. Back then, you

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Speaker 1: have these giant, legendary TV figures. You will never see

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Speaker 1: another Johnny Carson.

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Speaker 2: Will we I don't think so. I mean everyone in

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Speaker 2: the nation at eleven thirty would tune in for his

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Speaker 2: take on the day. I mean it's been said that,

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Speaker 2: you know, he really wasn't political because he didn't want

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Speaker 2: to take size and alienate half his audience. He wanted

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Speaker 2: to do an entertainment shown. Everybody passed through that show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now that's a good point. The reason you waited

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Speaker 1: for that monologue. You wanted to get a funny take

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Speaker 1: on the politicians, the president, whatever happened that day. But

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Speaker 1: today's world, you hear forty seven talk radio shows and

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Speaker 1: twelve cable news shows. So you've by the time it's

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Speaker 1: eleven thirty, you've had eighty seven thousand takes on everything.

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Speaker 1: What's the late thy wants to do?

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Speaker 2: It's really different. He liked to not really take He

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Speaker 2: didn't really want to take sides. But I will tell

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Speaker 2: you something. George W. Herbert Walker Bush when he was president,

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Speaker 2: it was a secret. He was all set to go

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Speaker 2: on the show in nineteen ninety two and announced that

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Speaker 2: he was going to present the Presidential Medal of Freedom

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Speaker 2: to Carson, and Carson secretly told one of his writers

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Speaker 2: that he was playing on and voting for Bush. But

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Speaker 2: the Rodney King ryots happened, and President Bush Herbert Walker

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Speaker 2: didn't think it was appropriate. But a few months later,

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Speaker 2: after Johnny retired, he did go to the White House

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Speaker 2: and slept over with Bush. And his son Corey actually

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Speaker 2: played guitar in the Oval office for Bush.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there were a lot of presidents. Was he was

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Speaker 1: part of the Reagan inauguration? Wasn't he? Didn't he perform

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Speaker 1: there for that? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: That was actually produced by Frank Sinatra, And whatever Sinatra

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Speaker 2: asked of Carson, Carson said yes. And Nancy Reagan. The

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Speaker 2: Reagans loved Johnny. But Nancy Reagan did call up twice

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Speaker 2: Johnny that she wasn't happy with some jokes, but overall

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Speaker 2: they laughed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But getting back to the point of bigness, the

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Speaker 1: Tonight's show was so big with Carson. You know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: you're in a comedy club and they'll introduce the guy

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Speaker 1: and they'll say, he's been on with Jimmy Fallon fourteen times,

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Speaker 1: he's been on with Kimmel seventeen times, and you still

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Speaker 1: never heard of this guy. But in the old days

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Speaker 1: of Carson, he could make a star overnight. It was

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Speaker 1: a major It was true.

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Speaker 2: It was the dreams. I mean, there was unknown. Breddy

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Speaker 2: Prince goes on the show. He's twenty years old. Within

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Speaker 2: six months he has the number one to come in America.

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Speaker 2: I talked to everybody from Drew Carrey to Louis Anderson

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Speaker 2: and this was their dream. I mean they had some

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Speaker 2: of them had tears in their eyes telling me this

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Speaker 2: story about what Johnny meant to them the country. Not

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Speaker 2: only that, but the young comedians in between commercials and

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Speaker 2: after the show, Johnny sometimes would get them punch ups

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Speaker 2: on their materials to improve their jokes into a young

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Speaker 2: comic that is like Santa Claus. I mean that you

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Speaker 2: can't ask for a gift better than that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a big feature of the Tonight Show

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Speaker 1: seeing the latest, newest best comics. Where did that stop?

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Speaker 1: I guess it was Leno that stopped doing that on

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Speaker 1: the Tonight Show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Jay noticed that the ratings were going down when

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Speaker 2: they had committe stand ups, so they really stopped doing it.

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Speaker 2: It's I really feel like with Lem David Letterman on CBS,

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Speaker 2: the Great Romano was the big person that got famous

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Speaker 2: through that. But yeah, it's a shame that nothing like

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Speaker 2: that exists. I really do miss Johnny Carson being in

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Speaker 2: New York doing the Tonight Show. I mean, he loved

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Speaker 2: the city. He'd be in Grand Central Station playing tennis

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Speaker 2: with Mayor Lindsay. He'd be in the Bronx having lunch

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Speaker 2: with George c. Scott because they were friends and New

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Speaker 2: York was dear to him. And I'm obsessed with finding

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Speaker 2: footage because we both know most of it was erased,

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Speaker 2: and Carson was furious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the New York years, the first ten years of

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Speaker 1: the Tonight Show, I thought that was the best period,

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Speaker 1: because you're right, he was in Jilly's, he was in

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Speaker 1: the Copa Cavana, he was all over New York. Once

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Speaker 1: he got to California, he'd go home and that'd be it.

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Speaker 1: He'd sit by his pool or play tennis. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: the same car.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, New York was just I mean he had this

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Speaker 2: green Cadillac and he had a driver and on Sixth

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Speaker 2: Avenue he'd be waiting after the show, and around nine

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Speaker 2: o'clock he'd come down and get into his cadillact and

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Speaker 2: go back to the un Plaza, or go to Danny's hideaway,

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Speaker 2: or meet Sinatra or Buddy Rich. He had a really

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Speaker 2: amazing like one time his green Cadillac as his driver

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Speaker 2: had an umbrella because it was raining over his head.

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Speaker 2: Person watched his green Catalog be stolen by somebody and

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Speaker 2: they're driving the guy's driving on Sixth Avenue and Carson

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Speaker 2: is in disbelief. This guy just stole his car. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was a low point for Carson, but he loved

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Speaker 2: the city. He actually when he moved to California, he

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Speaker 2: bought an apartment at the in the Pierre Hotel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, people, man, I realized the nineteen late nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixties New York was a dangerous place, even the seventies.

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Speaker 1: So it was worse than today. The movie Death, which

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Speaker 1: that was New York.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a tough place. I mean, Johnny would

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Speaker 2: have loved to have walked to work, but he definitely

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Speaker 2: would be a target just being famous in money. So

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Speaker 2: we both know Mark occasionally he would put on a

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Speaker 2: disguise and walk around the city. He said he would

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Speaker 2: feel ridiculous, but the costume people at NBC gave him

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Speaker 2: this so he could go out with his sons.

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Speaker 1: Wow, so we're talking of this before. When I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, he watched like Leave It to Beaver and

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Speaker 1: there was the father Ward Cleaver, and you didn't want

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Speaker 1: to be anything like that guy. That's not what you

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Speaker 1: wanted to be in life. But then you see as

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Speaker 1: a little kid, you'd see Johnny Carson's that's the kind

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Speaker 1: of adult I'd like to be that kind of personality

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Speaker 1: that So he probably inspired a lot of people, didn't he.

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Speaker 2: I think he absolutely did. I mean especially you know

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Speaker 2: during the New York days. I mean he was pitching

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Speaker 2: to Mickey Mannle and Roger Maris at Yankee Stady. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he was jumping out of an airplane, playing with the

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Speaker 2: jets at Polo Grounds. I mean it was really fun.

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Speaker 2: And then you know he was at Indianapolis Motor Speedway

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Speaker 2: with Parnelli Jones, going hundreds of miles an hour. But

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Speaker 2: there was just something cool about him. I mean his dress.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he made so much money. People all across America,

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Speaker 2: young men would save up their money to buy a

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Speaker 2: Johnny Carson suit. He made the turtlenecks popular. They were

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Speaker 2: selling out all over the place because of Carson.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like James Bond would come in and

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Speaker 1: he'd have one great line, a funny line, one line.

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Speaker 1: But then you watch Carson. He could keep that up

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Speaker 1: for an hour and a half the interview a guests

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Speaker 1: and have fifty funny lines.

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Speaker 2: So he had this ability where his brain there was

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Speaker 2: this joke file and he would admit that a lot

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Speaker 2: of those ad libes were things he had used in

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Speaker 2: the past or had heard, but there was just nobody

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Speaker 2: that was quicker than Johnny Carson. I mean, the Jack

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Speaker 2: influence with the pauses when he would have animals on

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Speaker 2: was something else. He was absolutely brilliant. You have a

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Speaker 2: marsupial on his head relieving itself, and Carson look into

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Speaker 2: the spider going up to his arm. I mean, the

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Speaker 2: guy could do anything.

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Speaker 1: So here's the big question. Now, the Tonight show was enormous.

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Speaker 1: You'd be a star overnight if you're on there. Letterman

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Speaker 1: was really a big show, and the late night shows

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Speaker 1: today are nothing like that. And you got to think

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Speaker 1: at some point they're going to disappear because network audiences

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Speaker 1: are getting smaller, budgets are getting smaller. Are we going

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Speaker 1: to see the end of late night TV at some

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Speaker 1: point in the next couple of years.

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Speaker 2: It really looks that way unfortunately. I mean they took

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Speaker 2: away seth Meyer's ban. Col Bear is going off in May.

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Speaker 2: It's tough. Johnny had eight writers at the most, sometimes

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Speaker 2: only four writers, and all these shows have you know,

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Speaker 2: twenty plus writers that they have banned. So I think

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Speaker 2: if the shows do continue, we'll come back. They're just

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Speaker 2: going to be really scaled down. I don't think we're

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Speaker 2: ever going to see an amazing doc seference in twenty

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Speaker 2: piece orchestra ever again, which is a shame.

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Speaker 1: Well. Yeah, and like I said, with talk radio, with

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Speaker 1: cable news, by the time it's eleven thirty, you've probably

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Speaker 1: seen fourteen talk shows already that day, So you really don't.

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Speaker 2: It's really true. I mean, it's where we are. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's it's something that I didn't foresee happening. But it's

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Speaker 2: just network television.

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Speaker 1: In a while back when they took Jimmy Kimmel off

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Speaker 1: here for about a week and during that week they

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Speaker 1: ran game show reruns and it got triple the ratings.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure it costs nothing to run the reruns.

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Speaker 1: So when Colbert goes off, I would assume it's not

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Speaker 1: going to be another late night show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to say. You're an al and the mogul.

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Speaker 2: Maybe a billionaire has been buy an ad time to

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Speaker 2: the twelve thirty slot and doing his own comedy show

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Speaker 2: comics on leash. So I mean I could see Byron

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Speaker 2: Allens being he's such an amazing business man taking that

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Speaker 2: slot and just buying it from CBS. But we'll see

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Speaker 2: what happens.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, everybody, get this book. It's the greatest book

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Speaker 1: ever written on Late Night on Johnny Carson. It's called

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Speaker 1: Love Johnny Carson. Just trust me, you'll thank me. Go

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Speaker 1: order it right now, Love Johnny Carson. You can get

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Speaker 1: it at Amazon. Mark Malkoff is the author. And you're

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Speaker 1: doing a book tour, right You're all over the country

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Speaker 1: talking about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I got to go to Johnny's hometown of Norfolk.

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Speaker 2: I thought, ah, it's called nor Fork, nor Folk. They

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Speaker 2: said it's north Fork. But I got to go. Being

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Speaker 2: Johnny's boyhood home. They asked me to autograph the wall

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Speaker 2: next to the Smothers brothers and Paul Riser and all

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Speaker 2: these people like Dick have It. It was an honor to

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Speaker 2: be there and talk to people and sign books. I

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Speaker 2: did something in Chicago at the Broadcast Museum of Communications,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to be doing more events in New York.

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Speaker 2: So stay tuned.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's know, we'll promote him. So when

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Speaker 1: you do all these events, all these audience, what do

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Speaker 1: they ask you the most about Carson?

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Speaker 2: Just people just ask me what he was like off camera,

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Speaker 2: and the people that I talked to his best friends

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Speaker 2: consistently would say he was almost the same Johnny on

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Speaker 2: and off camera, which was shocking because the media would

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Speaker 2: make him out to be cold in a loof, and

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Speaker 2: his friends constantly would say he was not, like he

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Speaker 2: was very shy and reserved when people didn't know him.

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Speaker 2: But if not, if he knew you, he was the

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Speaker 2: same Johnny. And constantly people when they come up to me,

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Speaker 2: just tell me how much they missed the man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he was the same Johnny. But and he

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Speaker 1: explained this once, when he goes to work, he would

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Speaker 1: get kind of cold on the loof because you're there

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Speaker 1: to work. It's not a party. You're not there to

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Speaker 1: have fun on the air.

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Speaker 2: You're right, he would. Yeah, he would save his energy.

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Speaker 2: That was a big thing with him. He wouldn't get

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Speaker 2: to the studio until he'd been working all day, but

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Speaker 2: he would conserve his energy. So it might really look

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Speaker 2: like it's tense, and I think he might have liked

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Speaker 2: it a little. At ten, everyone wanted everyone to be

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Speaker 2: excellent and really be on on notice and put everything

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Speaker 2: into it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you'll love this book. Go order it right now.

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Speaker 1: The book's called Love Johnny Carson by Mark Malcoff, and

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Speaker 1: get it on Amazon. Love Johnny Carson. Get the book

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Speaker 1: and start listening to the Carson Podcast. It's it's great. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Mark Malcoff, thanks for being with us. We'll do it

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Speaker 1: again soon.

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Speaker 2: I'd love that.

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Speaker 1: Mark.

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Speaker 2: It's still good in your voice, good talking you take.

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Speaker 1: Care, take care. Yeah, thanks, Yeah, you'll love this book.

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Speaker 1: And listen to the Carson Podcast, six hundred amazing episodes. Hey,

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Speaker 1: don't forget Buck and Clay Noon Today excellent show. Sean

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Speaker 1: Hannity the most listened to radio show in America at three,

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Speaker 1: Jesse Kelly at six, and Jimmy Fayala. Who's the closest

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Speaker 1: you'll get to Johnny Carson Now his Saturday night show

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Speaker 1: on Fox, but he does a great radio show every

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Speaker 1: night here every weeknight, nine o'clock on seven to ten

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Speaker 1: wor