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Speaker 1: If I getting into Midnight Gary Jeff Walker checking in

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Speaker 1: on this Monday evening on seven Hunter WLW.

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Speaker 2: Coming up next, Carry Lutz.

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Speaker 1: You've noticed the little parking signs that want you to

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Speaker 1: use an app to park, no meter, no nothing, but

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Speaker 1: you could get a ticket. Are those tickets challengeable? And

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Speaker 1: are they legal? Carrie Lutz we'll discuss with his new

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Speaker 1: book coming up in just a few minutes. Plus The

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Speaker 1: Truth with John Gordon tonight about Christy Nome and what

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Speaker 1: happened to the departed DHS Secretary. Dave Hatter will join us.

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Speaker 1: Robert Rainger, the Spymaster is back again to talk about

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Speaker 1: what's going on with Congress. Well we all wonder what's

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Speaker 1: going on with Congress and the wild Man before we're

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Speaker 1: done tonight, Plus an interview that did not get on

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Speaker 1: the air last week because of basketball. It's about basketball,

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Speaker 1: it's about the Heartland, in fact, that's the name of it,

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Speaker 1: and it's also about Larry Bird. Keith O'Brien will join

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Speaker 1: us before the nightcap is over tonight. Glad you tuned in.

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Speaker 1: Up next carry Lots Street. You know where parking meters

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Speaker 1: used to be. You see the signs up everywhere in

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Speaker 1: the cities, but it is spreading out to suburbia. And

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Speaker 1: our next guest on the Nightcap tells you that this

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Speaker 1: is a bridge too far or a parking space too far,

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Speaker 1: as the case may be, and you need to protect

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Speaker 1: yourself and watch out. He is a self described re

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Speaker 1: covering attorney and veteran media host, and he is our

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Speaker 1: guest tonight and the author of America's Great Parking Scam.

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Speaker 1: You've been wrong, Carrie Lutz, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Hey, I couldn't have said it better myself.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, Gate, what are we doing for the next

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes?

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Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about parking. I didn't set out to, like,

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Speaker 3: want to become an expert in parking. Paid parking it

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Speaker 3: called me. And I was in a town city in

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Speaker 3: Florida here called Riviera Beach, parked in the same spot

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Speaker 3: I've been parking in for twelve years for my morning walk.

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Speaker 3: And I come back and there's a ticket on my car,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, when did this happen? When did they

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Speaker 3: start charging? Well, several weeks before they'd implemented paid parking

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Speaker 3: for an area that used to be free, and I

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Speaker 3: didn't see the signs, So I challenged the ticket. I

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Speaker 3: wrote them a nasty note saying I've been parking here

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Speaker 3: for ten years. I didn't see any signs you know

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Speaker 3: what gears. And three days later, I get a email

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Speaker 3: back from a website that processes a parking ticket saying,

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Speaker 3: due to a delay, we're dismissing the ticket. I don't

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Speaker 3: know what that meant, but I went back and I

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Speaker 3: looked at the sign and it was a beach scene.

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Speaker 3: It had a wave, a beach umbrella, a beach.

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Speaker 1: Ball, and sands.

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Speaker 3: And I guess they were trying to prepare you for

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Speaker 3: the tsunami of tickets they were going to issue. And

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Speaker 3: I said, that sign doesn't look right to me. Started researching.

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Speaker 3: I said, I think there's a federal standard for signs

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Speaker 3: if I'm not mistaken. Sure enough, I wasn't mistaken. There

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Speaker 3: is a federal standard. It's called the Manual on Uniform.

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Speaker 3: That's what they capital U Traffic control devices. What's a

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Speaker 3: traffic control device? A stoplight, a stop sign, a yield sign.

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Speaker 1: That is as a traffic control device, you know what else?

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Speaker 1: Is parking signs?

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Speaker 3: And they are strictly governed by the MUTCD. And let

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Speaker 3: me explain how they're how it works in your state, whether.

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Speaker 1: You were in.

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Speaker 3: Washington or you're in Florida. The MUCTD is the law

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Speaker 3: of the highway because every state had to adopt it

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Speaker 3: as a condition of getting federal highway funds, which is

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Speaker 3: billions and billions of dollars a year. No one, no

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Speaker 3: state is going to say we don't like it, We're

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Speaker 3: not going to do it. And uniformity is the key.

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Speaker 3: So if you get on the highway in Seattle or

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Speaker 3: you get in the highway in Key West, Florida, the

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Speaker 3: signs are the same. So you can't have a town

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Speaker 3: like Portlandia in Oregon where they said, you know, we

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Speaker 3: think that red lights are ugly. We want to stop

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Speaker 3: on green and we want to go on red, and

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Speaker 3: then you know, they change things around and all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, there's all these accidents because normal people stop

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Speaker 3: on red and go on green, but not in Portlandia.

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Speaker 3: So that's why this thing was implemented. Uniformity is uniformity,

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Speaker 3: routine safety. You know the signs, you've seen them your

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Speaker 3: whole life. Do not park it's a red it's it's

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Speaker 3: a white sign with red lettering and a red outline

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Speaker 3: around the perimeter of the sign permitted parking, you know,

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Speaker 3: parking two hours Monday through Friday, nine to five, pay parking.

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Speaker 3: It's green on a white reflective fact it is. And

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Speaker 3: the signs have to they have to reflect. Of course,

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Speaker 3: the government doesn't call it reflectivity. They call it retro reflectivity.

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Speaker 3: But you know that's the government. They need a you know,

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Speaker 3: they need a word for everything. Sure, and so the

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Speaker 3: signs they got to be there. The arrows have to

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Speaker 3: be proper so you know where it applies to. And

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Speaker 3: there's no wiggle room in the MUTCD if it says

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Speaker 3: the sign's got to be twelve at least twelve.

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Speaker 1: By eighteen inches mounted at seven feet. You can't just.

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Speaker 3: Mount it at four feet and give you a five

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Speaker 3: y five postcard sign. It's inflexible. It's been upheld in

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Speaker 3: many other instances. The main thing with litigation with signs

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Speaker 3: is usually got to do with construction zones and accidents.

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Speaker 3: Normally people don't litigate parking. But I'm a little bit different.

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Speaker 3: I actually started a lawsuit in the United States District

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Speaker 3: Court in West Palm Beach suing six municipalities, including President

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Speaker 3: Trump's current home, Palm Beach. The town of Palm Beach

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Speaker 3: because they've done away with these signs, and you know,

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Speaker 3: they're giving out millions and millions of dollars of tickets

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Speaker 3: every year based on faulty signage. The statute in Florida

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Speaker 3: specifically says, if the sign is bad, the enforcement's bad.

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Speaker 3: You can't enforce faulty signs. No I sue these municipalities.

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Speaker 3: I'm suing the app companies as well.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: In the little town where I bartend in Newport, Kentucky,

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Speaker 1: right on the other side of the river from Cincinnati,

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Speaker 1: they took out the parking meters that were on Mama

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Speaker 1: Street and they put up these little signs and they

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Speaker 1: are not what you're describing. They're not uniform green with

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Speaker 1: a white background or red with a white background. They

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Speaker 1: are not the normal size of a sign. But they

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Speaker 1: instruct you that you are in a parking area, and

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Speaker 1: they give you a number, and they want you to

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Speaker 1: scan the QR code on this sign so you can

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Speaker 1: you can pay to park. And it's just absolutely tell

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Speaker 1: us what's wrong with that, Carrie. Beyond what you described before.

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Speaker 1: It's multiple.

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Speaker 3: This is like peeling back the layers of a rotten onion.

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Speaker 3: It just gets worse the deeper you get. And for instance, okay,

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Speaker 3: so you need to sign seven feet off the sidewalk.

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Speaker 3: You know, if it's an inch or two, no, that's

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Speaker 3: not going to get you off a ticket. If it's

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Speaker 3: a foot, yeah, because it's got to be seven feet

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Speaker 3: it's got to face oncoming traffic that would be parking there.

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Speaker 3: I wish I had a dollar for every sign in

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Speaker 3: Florida that's parallel to the street.

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Speaker 1: Can't be parallel.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't specifically say perpendicular, but it has to be

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Speaker 3: able to be seen by oncoming traffic. I'll bet you

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Speaker 3: half those signs they put up aren't perpendicular to the street.

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Speaker 3: In addition, got to be at least twelve I think

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Speaker 3: it's twelve or twelve and.

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Speaker 1: A half inches by eighteen inches.

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Speaker 3: And it's got to have retro reflectivity, meaning you've got

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Speaker 3: to be able to see it at night. And it

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Speaker 3: can't refer to an additional source for you to figure

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Speaker 3: out what's legal or illegal. The entire regulation must be

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Speaker 3: encapsulated on that sign, which is basically a fancy way

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Speaker 3: of saying hours and days of enforcement. You know, two

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Speaker 3: hour parking Monday through Friday, nine to five no parking

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Speaker 3: permitted eight am to nine pm Monday through Friday, or

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Speaker 3: if it doesn't say the days, that applies to all

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Speaker 3: days and all the regulation has to be there. And

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Speaker 3: in Florida, it's actually illegal for anyone to sell or

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Speaker 3: manufacture a non compliant sign, and it's illegal for the

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Speaker 3: town or municipality to buy the sign. This kind of

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Speaker 3: stuff varies a little bit from place to place, but

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Speaker 3: it's clear. If the sign is defective, no fine. But

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Speaker 3: it gets worse than that. The apps themselves all right.

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Speaker 3: In Palm Beach, where our president resides, they have done

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Speaker 3: away with all alternative forms of payment. So if you

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Speaker 3: want to pay for parking in the town of Palm Beach,

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Speaker 3: you must download an app. Somehow, there's some kind of

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Speaker 3: cards you can buy or something I don't know. For

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Speaker 3: the unbanked, it's very peculiar. There's a phone number you

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Speaker 3: can call, but the phone number is the yeah and

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Speaker 3: you could text and it'll text you back a link

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Speaker 3: to the app. So this is the equivalent of Obamacare,

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Speaker 3: but on steroids Obamacare.

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Speaker 1: The court ruled that.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't mandatory contracting coerced compulsory contracting because you didn't

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Speaker 3: have to pay. You didn't have to buy the insurance.

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Speaker 3: You would just pay the penalty. In this instance, if

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Speaker 3: you don't pay the parking, if you don't pay the app,

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Speaker 3: then you get a ticket. So that's like quasi. Depending

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Speaker 3: on the state, it could be coming under criminal statutes,

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Speaker 3: but you're actually it's an offense. So that's different than Obamacare,

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Speaker 3: which is you just pay the money. Compulsory coerced contracting.

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Speaker 3: But it's even worse than that because we have this

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Speaker 3: situation in the United States where millions of drivers are

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Speaker 3: between the ages, depending on the state, fifteen to eighteen.

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Speaker 3: All right, anyone less than eighteen years old is called

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Speaker 3: a minor. Well, guess what if a miner goes to

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Speaker 3: a bank and says, I want a credit card, they say, no,

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Speaker 3: you can't have one because you're a minor, and you

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Speaker 3: can avoid you can avoid that contract. You can get

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Speaker 3: the money, go buy your Xbox and then refuse to

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Speaker 3: pay us, and there's nothing we can do about it.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 3: But with apps, they know miners are downloading the apps. Well,

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Speaker 3: guess what when you click an app after you downloaded it,

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Speaker 3: and you say, except you entered into a contract with

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Speaker 3: the app company, In addition, there's terms of service privacy policies.

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Speaker 1: And miners cannot legally enter into a contract with anybody right.

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Speaker 3: Well, they can enter into a contract.

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Speaker 1: But it's voidable.

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Speaker 3: So what they're doing is coercing minors into contracts that

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Speaker 3: are avoidable by any stretch any rate of the law.

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Speaker 1: That's not legal.

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Speaker 3: In addition, the app stores rate these apps as four

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Speaker 3: plus ages four and up, which means they're.

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Speaker 1: Safe for everybody.

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Speaker 3: They don't talk about the fact that when a miner

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Speaker 3: opts into this app, they are also waiving their privacy rights.

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Speaker 3: They're agreeing to data sharing. There is no means for

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Speaker 3: parental verification. Normally, you know, you're asking a minor to

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Speaker 3: enter into an arbitration agreement to wave their class action remedies,

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Speaker 3: and the miner doesn't have the capacity to waive these rights,

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Speaker 3: and some of these rights the parents don't even have

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Speaker 3: the right to wave. In addition, the data that the

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Speaker 3: app is harvesting is geolocation. That means the exact spot

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Speaker 3: on the planet that that miner is standing in when

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Speaker 3: it's done, their license plate number normally often their credit

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Speaker 3: card information, the identifier on their phone, which could be

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Speaker 3: their phone number, or it could be various serial numbers

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Speaker 3: that are embedded in the phone, and then they can

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Speaker 3: share this data with third parties. Supposedly they don't sell it,

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Speaker 3: but maybe they trade it. Who knows what they do

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Speaker 3: with it. In addition, park Mobile the largest sixty five

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Speaker 3: million users will park Mobile, they had a data breach

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Speaker 3: in I think it was twenty twenty one. They just

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Speaker 3: settled the class action for thirty million dollars. Twenty one

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Speaker 3: million records were breached. Now park Mobile, they're doing so good.

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Speaker 3: They have sixty five million customers and percentage of them

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Speaker 3: are miners.

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Speaker 1: So I've also in addition to my lawsuit which.

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Speaker 3: Covers this, I complained to the Google and Apple app

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Speaker 3: stores saying you are facilitating the data mining, data harvesting

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Speaker 3: of miners who have entered into contracts that they don't

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Speaker 3: have the capacity to enter into.

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Speaker 1: So any there's a lot of.

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Speaker 3: Pressure points here, a lot of places where the whole

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Speaker 3: thing can just come tumbling down. My goal is bring

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Speaker 3: down the parking industrial complex.

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Speaker 1: Amen, I love it, the parking industrial complex, which I

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Speaker 1: didn't even realize existed until now, Carrie. So I'm starting

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Speaker 1: to get to clearer picture. Why are cities doing this,

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Speaker 1: municipalities farming this out and is it just to save

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Speaker 1: money and then they get a little slice of what

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Speaker 1: they normally would get through normal parking Enforcement's what's the

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Speaker 1: reason behind it?

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Speaker 3: Well, the reason behind it's simple. New York City, which

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Speaker 3: is the Kuwait of parking tickets, gave out somewhere around

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Speaker 3: eleven million tickets last year. It's a multi billion dollar

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Speaker 3: extractive industry for New York City.

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Speaker 1: They're a granddaddy of it all.

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Speaker 3: A little place like Orlando, Florida pulls in I think

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Speaker 3: I heard twenty million. Don't quote me on it, but

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Speaker 3: it's tens of millions of dollars in parking grift. And

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Speaker 3: what it is its ability. It's just like taxes on

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Speaker 3: alcohol or cigarettes. It's a way to bring in money

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Speaker 3: without raising taxes and then spend it on foolish programs

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Speaker 3: which there's no shortage of.

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Speaker 1: And then the app companies.

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Speaker 3: They are aggressively marketing to these cities, and when a

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Speaker 3: city implements an app, their revenues anywhere from forty to

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Speaker 3: have stories on their websites bragging about this anywhere from

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Speaker 3: forty to one hundred and eighty percent Their revenues go up.

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Speaker 3: The first year Fernandina Beach started charging for parking and

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Speaker 3: have parking permits for locals and out of towners. Their

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Speaker 3: first week they pulled in one hundred thousand dollars in grift.

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Speaker 3: So that's why it's big business. And the app guys

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Speaker 3: they just get their little slice of every single transaction.

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Speaker 3: Some of the apps even even write the tickets themselves,

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Speaker 3: which in Florida's semi legal, they can basically get away

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Speaker 3: with it. But some of them even provide for a

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Speaker 3: judicial portal so that they will decide your dispute to

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Speaker 3: the parking ticket, and if you appeal it, you got

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Speaker 3: to pay an arbitrator, which is not in the law

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Speaker 3: at all. That one's way beyond. And then it's a

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Speaker 3: weird thing of municipal contracting in the South. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if they have it up by you or not,

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Speaker 3: but they got this thing called the piggyback, which is

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Speaker 3: where if the town wants to enter into a contract

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Speaker 3: with a contractor who's already got a contract on file

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Speaker 3: and it's substantially the same, they don't have to put

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Speaker 3: it out for competitive bidding. They just piggyback on the contract.

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Speaker 3: That was already issued. So we had this Delray Beach

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Speaker 3: did a contract with this company, and then rivier A

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Speaker 3: Beach piggybacked. But they want they have to be near identical,

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Speaker 3: substantially similar, and that's where the fun begins. So we've

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Speaker 3: exposed this. It's going to be really fun to see

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Speaker 3: what happens.

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Speaker 1: As you say, in America's Great Parking Scam, you've been robbed,

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Speaker 1: Carrie Letz. Parking enforcement quietly transformed into an appt of

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Speaker 1: an extraction system that no one voted for, no regulators oversee,

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Speaker 1: and no agency wants to claim responsibility for. And I

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Speaker 1: would I would assume that is the reason you're in

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Speaker 1: court right now. I wish you great success for the

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Speaker 1: rest of us, and great success with the book too.

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Speaker 1: Carrie Lutz, thank you again for showing up tonight and

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Speaker 1: bringing all this information and letting people know that they

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Speaker 1: just don't have to take this crap.

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Speaker 3: My pleasure parkscam dot com.

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Speaker 1: All right, fantastic, Carry Lutz parkscam dot com to find

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Speaker 1: out more. Our next guest had this gentleman on just

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Speaker 1: a few weeks back, talking about his new book, The

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Speaker 1: Spy Master of Monte Carlo and we're going to do

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Speaker 1: a little bit of that again tonight. But there are

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Speaker 1: always things happening in the realm of intelligence, and some

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Speaker 1: of them scared the heck out of me. Just the

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Speaker 1: ability to be surveilled and to be spied upon, and

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Speaker 1: for everybody to know everything you're doing at the time

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Speaker 1: you're doing it in real time. The technology does not stop,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we're we're all under the gun at

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Speaker 1: some point or another from some kind of intelligence work

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Speaker 1: that's going on. You know, even if you're not doing

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Speaker 1: anything wrong and you think there's you know, no reason

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Speaker 1: for you to care about the fact that you're being

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Speaker 1: spied upon. But we are on a daily basis. And

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Speaker 1: the people who make those connections behind the scenes, who

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Speaker 1: conduct the clandestine meetings, who you know, make introductions of

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Speaker 1: people to other people in the higher up, are very

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Speaker 1: very well. They're they're very important, and they're very in

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Speaker 1: demand these days. One of those people is Robert Eringer,

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Speaker 1: The Spymaster of Carlo Is the book. It's out on

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth of this month. You can pre order it

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Speaker 1: right now. And welcome back to the show, Robert. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me back. Gary. Pleasure to be here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you first about what's going on

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Speaker 1: right now in Operation Epic Fury, and as someone who

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Speaker 1: has worked with spies who have been in the intelligence business,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty it's a real marvel what, especially Israeli intelligence

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Speaker 1: the Mussad have been able to do as far as

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Speaker 1: finding and tracking down the leadership inside Iran and probably

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Speaker 1: many many other things that we don't know about. But

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Speaker 1: watching that in action as a result of their spy work,

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Speaker 1: it's something really to behold, isn't it?

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Speaker 4: Their ability, it truly is, and I think from the

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Speaker 4: Mossad's perspective, it's mostly about humans, that is, human intelligence.

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Speaker 4: They've got the right assets on the ground to it,

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Speaker 4: probably right inside the leadership circles.

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Speaker 1: Of around Yeah. So I mean, are they doing the

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Speaker 1: things that you think a good spy would do. I

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Speaker 1: mean the results would be pretty positive.

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Speaker 4: I think the results suggest that they've been doing an

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Speaker 4: amazing job and that they've got fabulous intelligence that the

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Speaker 4: Mossad is known for that probably as one of the

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Speaker 4: one of the premier intelligence services of the world today

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Speaker 4: along with the Brits and the Russians. So they're very

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Speaker 4: good at what they do, especially when it comes to

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Speaker 4: the human.

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Speaker 1: Side, Well, the United States wasn't too shabby at it

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Speaker 1: either when it came to Maduro in Venezuela. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the CIA actually were able to build an exact replica

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Speaker 1: of the structure in which he stayed, with all the rooms.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they knew exactly where the safe room was

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Speaker 1: in the house when they got there. It was everything

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Speaker 1: they'd been practicing for for like six months. So I'd

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Speaker 1: say that's a pretty strong intelligence unit too for the CIA,

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Speaker 1: And there was very much, so very much. So they're

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Speaker 1: very good.

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Speaker 4: They certainly have the resources and the budget, so one

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Speaker 4: would hope that they would be as good as they are,

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Speaker 4: and they've proven themselves to be quite superb.

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Speaker 1: How much has changed since the days you were an

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Speaker 1: intelligence advisor to Prince Albert Monaco.

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Speaker 4: Well, if we're talking about the CIA in particular, I

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Speaker 4: did not have a wonderful experience with them, but that

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Speaker 4: was because we had a weak link in our chain of.

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Speaker 1: Command of protocol, and that was a peristation. Chief.

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Speaker 4: Also, I found American intelligence services in general to be

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Speaker 4: over bureaucratized and just bogged down in that kind of protocol,

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Speaker 4: And it could be that under the leadership of John

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Speaker 4: Ratcliffe that the CIA has gotten just a lot a

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Speaker 4: lot better, a lot less procedure or rather protocol oriented

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Speaker 4: and more about outcome versus process.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what kind of a leader George H. W.

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Speaker 1: Bush was when he was head of the CIA, And

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Speaker 1: I know that we had a card carrying communistism as

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Speaker 1: the head of the CIA for several years.

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Speaker 2: John Brennan, I believe is his name.

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Speaker 4: That's right, it was John Brennan actually voted for the

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Speaker 4: Communist Party.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was.

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Speaker 4: My opinion, Brennan is probably the worst director of the

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Speaker 4: CIA ever had And I.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you got you pegged him right.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure he's still a con immunist or even

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Speaker 4: was a communist by the time he became the director

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Speaker 4: of the CIA, But he never should have been in

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Speaker 4: that job.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I would agree with that he was. He

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Speaker 1: was one of the uh the fifty one Intel people

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Speaker 1: too that said that Hunter Biden's laptop was was Russian misinformation.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, uh.

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Speaker 2: And George H. W.

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Speaker 1: Bush, who would wind up becoming president, was head of

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Speaker 1: the c I A uh so, I mean we were

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Speaker 1: were they all embroiled and and really ensnarled in this

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Speaker 1: this need for protocol above results that you were talking about. Uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: seems to me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know how much of a leader

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Speaker 4: at at CIA George Bush was.

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Speaker 1: He was a political appointee.

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Speaker 4: Uh, and yet managed to get the headquarters named after

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Speaker 4: him later on.

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Speaker 1: Uh, but no, don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't think he was that effective as a director

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Speaker 4: of the agency. And but following Stansfield Turner, who was

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Speaker 4: probably the second worst CI director after Brennan, it was

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Speaker 4: an improvement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 1: What what concerns me as just a normal citizen, Robert is, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they can do this in foreign countries. Do we as

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Speaker 1: American citizens have any expectation of privacy at all when

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Speaker 1: it comes to these agencies and the technology that exists now?

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Speaker 1: I think the biggest misconception is that there are human

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Speaker 1: eyes that are watching Americans or reading their emails or anything.

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Speaker 4: Yes, the National Security Agency probably is capable of sucking

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Speaker 4: up every email, because let's face it, emails on our

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Speaker 4: private phone, calls and everything else all across the country.

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Speaker 1: But who's there?

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Speaker 4: The resources don't exist for humans to evaluate and assess.

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Speaker 1: Plus, they're not really looking for what you and I

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Speaker 1: and other.

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Speaker 4: Average Americans are talking about, conversing about emailing about uh.

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Speaker 4: They're they're looking for keywords, keywords that are used by terrorists.

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Speaker 4: And if you happen to accidentally stumble them in one

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Speaker 4: of those, yeah, you run the chances an American citizen

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Speaker 4: of somebody perking up and going, hey, what's that about?

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Speaker 4: Let's let's look at this. But other than that, it's

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Speaker 4: all about collecting data. But what do you do with

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Speaker 4: it once you've collected it?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 4: I mean it may be wouldn't it be sad if

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Speaker 4: at the end nobody cares that much about uh, Joe

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Speaker 4: blow the average American and everybo he's emailing and talking.

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Speaker 1: About, Oh, I'm boring as all good at It's used

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Speaker 1: to concern me, used to concern me to.

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Speaker 4: To have secure emails and things like that when I

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Speaker 4: was working in Monaco, and before that, the FBI ensured

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Speaker 4: that im what I was doing was secure when I

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Speaker 4: was operating undercover for them doing counterintelligence. But now as

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Speaker 4: I'm back to being an investigative reporter or write or research,

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Speaker 4: I don't give a crap. I don't do what a

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Speaker 4: lot of people do and really go to great pains

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Speaker 4: to ensure my cybersecurity.

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Speaker 1: It's like, come on, welcome to it. I put out

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Speaker 1: what I write on sebsack anyway.

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Speaker 4: You want to get a preview of it, be my guests.

438
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt, I get that.

439
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: When you're well, I don't think anybody's watching anyway.

440
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 4: And I've never been a paranoid type, but unlikely to

441
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 4: ever become one.

442
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing, there are no human resources to

443
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: do that, to look into every aspect of your life.

444
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: They'll just use AI. And you can't trust AI because

445
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: AI hallucinates. So AI has proven to be very fallible,

446
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: and they were replacing those human resources on a regular

447
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: basis now and it seems to be just speeding up. Yeah,

448
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: that's what concerns me.

449
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 4: You don't have I mean remember in the old days,

450
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 4: you'd have you'd have gum shoes, you'd have FI agents

451
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 4: and I R S agents and whoever is doing investigating

452
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 4: go knocking on doors. Rarely happens anymore. The bureaucracies have

453
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 4: just gotten so lazy. Everything is digital in this country.

454
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 4: If you don't have an email address and a cell phone,

455
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 4: you practically don't exist. If anybody really wanted to disappear,

456
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 4: they don't have to move out into the woods in.

457
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: Oregon or Montana or somewhere.

458
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 4: All they have to do is no longer have an

459
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 4: email address, and no longer have a smartphone, and and

460
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 4: bang you're they'll they'll never come looking for you, because

461
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 4: it takes it's too much trouble.

462
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: Well, what did you learn from the people that you

463
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: worked with in the CIA and in the spy business

464
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: about keeping yourself under the radar? Robert Well, I didn't.

465
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 4: I didn't learn things from them about keeping myself under

466
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 4: the radar when I was doing undercover counter intelligence work

467
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 4: for the FBI. It was just ensuring that I'm able

468
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 4: to stick to cover, which I was already good at anyway. So,

469
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 4: for instance, if I'm in Moscow and I'm purporting to

470
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 4: be a book editor, as I did to try to

471
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 4: ruse Edward Lee Howard, I would do things like bring

472
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 4: publishers Weekly and Book Review with me and make sure

473
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 4: it was on my desk in my hotel room, so

474
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 4: that when the Russian intelligence came in while I was out,

475
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 4: they would see all the usual things that a book

476
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 4: editor might have. Right, it's not rocket science, but it

477
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 4: does take It does take some learning and I learned

478
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: it as an investigative reporter. By the time I ended

479
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 4: up working for FBI counter Intelligence, I was already well

480
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 4: versed in undercover work because I'd infiltrated the Ku Klex

481
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 4: Klan and various other extremist organizations.

482
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: I know you've still been working on Epstein file related stuff,

483
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: and in the release of this book, which details your

484
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: work as an intelligence advisor to Prince Albert of Monaco,

485
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: what do you know? What have you learned about those connections?

486
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: You mentioned the last time that Prince Albert was good

487
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: friends with Prince Andrew, who, of course has now been

488
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: arrested and decastled and all kinds of other things, even

489
00:31:55,560 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: though he's still living on the English taxpayer dime. So

490
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: what do you know about any any further discussion of that,

491
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: And is it still important enough that we pursue the

492
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: Epstein file to its nth degree? I think so well.

493
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 4: I mean, right now, Andrew, no longer a prince, is

494
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 4: already in a lot of trouble.

495
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: As we all know.

496
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 4: He was arrested, taken to a police station, grilled for

497
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 4: eleven hours. That doesn't usually happen to a member of

498
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 4: royal family, and it must have been a very, very

499
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 4: difficult experience for him. As for the Epstein investigation, well,

500
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 4: the missing link is finally turned up. What happens about it,

501
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 4: we shall see. But that's Zorro Ranch, deep in the

502
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 4: heart of New Mexico, which was the one place that

503
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein owned, maybe the most notorious of the bunch

504
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 4: that never got investigated, never got searched. And yet the

505
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 4: FBI apparently had a tip in twenty nineteen about bodies

506
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 4: of two foreign females being buried somewhere just outside the grounds.

507
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: Of Zoro Ranch.

508
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 4: Well, and the latest on that is the New Mexico

509
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 4: legislature has decided to well a little eight but to

510
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 4: investigate Zoro Ranch. This is six seven years later than

511
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 4: they should have been investigating it.

512
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: They were investigating it in twenty nineteen. But what happened

513
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: was DOJ.

514
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 4: At that time Biden was president, wanted to co opt

515
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 4: their investigation and take it over and send the FBI

516
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 4: in then replace New Mexico State Police. Well, the New

517
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 4: Mexico State Police didn't want that to happen, so.

518
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: Instead of giving it to the FBI, they closed the

519
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: investigation down. Well, what sense did that make?

520
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 4: Now one can only assume it may have had something

521
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 4: to do with the former two term New Mexico.

522
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: Governor Bill Richardson, who, like.

523
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 4: Former Prince Andrew, was accused by Virginia Gouffrey of having

524
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 4: sex with her when she was only seventeen years old,

525
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 4: and Bill Richardson denied it. Well so did Andrew. But

526
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 4: now Andrew's denials we now know we're false, and so

527
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 4: we may also assume, since we can see that Virginia

528
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 4: Gouffrey was in New Mexico at Zora Ranch, that she

529
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 4: was quite likely telling the truth about Bill Richardson as well.

530
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 4: So did he have contacts? Wasn't governor anymore? But did

531
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 4: he have enough influence and power in New Mexico to

532
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 4: terminate New Mexico's investigation a Zora Ranch, which is where

533
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 4: he would have operated, or it's really really difficult to

534
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 4: say because there's so much smoke that's been created by

535
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 4: a lack of investigation all these years.

536
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: That's true, and the opportunity he was there for numerous presidents,

537
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: numerous Departments of Justice, and numerous governors, but nobody decided

538
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: to take it up until people like you and other

539
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: investigative reporters and some Congressmen have put defeat to the fire,

540
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 1: so to speak, with these files and what they mean

541
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: and who they expose and what kind of crimes and

542
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: who's accountable, who's responsible, who's going to pay the price?

543
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, and.

544
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 4: At the moment, yep and we're at a stalemate now,

545
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 4: I guess because the Attorney General of New Mexico, mean

546
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 4: by the name of Barrel Torres, has said his starting

547
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 4: point is getting from the FBI all of the Epstein files,

548
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 4: the unredacted version. That's his starting point. But I don't

549
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 4: know where it's gone beyond that, And maybe that's where

550
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 4: it dies because he doesn't get what he wants from

551
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 4: the FBI, and he doesn't go forward with his investigation

552
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 4: as a result. That would be convenient for that would

553
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 4: be convenient for everybody involved in the whole Epstein thing.

554
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 4: Why hasn't he got out there yet with the search party?

555
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: Who knows? As far as I can tell.

556
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 4: The new owner, who is a Republican apparently a MAGA

557
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 4: supporter when asked about it, that I haven't heard from anybody.

558
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: Amazing. Robert Eringer, the book is the spymaster of Monte

559
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: Carlo It's out on March nineteenth. You can pre order

560
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: it now. Thank you, sir for your time. Again, thank

561
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: you very much for having me.

562
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 2: Yep the Spy has spoken.

563
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: John Gordon coming up after the news, great legal mind.

564
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 1: He's also a radio host The Truth with John Gordon.

565
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: And the truth about John Gordon is that well, I've

566
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: really enjoyed him as a guest, and he agreed to

567
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: come back tonight, which I'm grateful for. How are things

568
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: in the sunny South, John?

569
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 5: They're heating up eighty five today in West Bombee.

570
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, you're Are you originally from the Atlanta area,

571
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: John Well? So, I was born in Columbus, Ohio. Oh

572
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: that's right, that's right, lived.

573
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 5: In the Mount Gilead until I was five, and then

574
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 5: my parents uprooted us and brought us to Atlanta. And

575
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 5: then ultimately we I grew up in Macon and then

576
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 5: went to Ohio westleyand and then returned to Atlanta to

577
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 5: practice law. So I bounced around a bit.

578
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love Ohio.

579
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 5: I'll be back from my fiftieth anniversary in May in Delaware.

580
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: No kidding, fifty gotten old, gotten old? Well, you said

581
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: Mount Gilead and Just a side note here. My wife

582
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: and I discovered an incredible bed and breakfast in Mount Gilead,

583
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: right there on High Street, and it's called the rosehart N.

584
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're even still in business. We

585
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: haven't seen them for couple of years, but well.

586
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 5: I stayed there once about I think five years ago.

587
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 5: It's a delightful little place. You were there, yes, sir,

588
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 5: it is. It was really nice.

589
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, Scott is into your fantastic breakfast was unbelievable. The

590
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: woman made this French toast that and I'm not generally

591
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: a French toast fan, but man, I would drive the

592
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: three hours just to get her French toast. I'm telling

593
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: you a good stuff.

594
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 5: Oh wow, Corn, I'm gonna have to go back.

595
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: Well, she made it.

596
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: She made she made her own bread, and then out

597
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: of that hollow bread or whatever she made the French toast.

598
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: So well, just real quick.

599
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 5: My grandfather used to make maple syrup on his farm

600
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 5: three miles from where you're describing, and when I was

601
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 5: a kid, we would go out on the sleigh and

602
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 5: collect the sap and bring it back to the the

603
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 5: boiler where they made the maple syrup.

604
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 1: It was a Nodyla childhood. I just loved it.

605
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 2: That's that's I mentally incredible.

606
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: All right, topics at hand here, besides our travel plans

607
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 1: and where we've been, I wanted to ask you about

608
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: the Christy Nomes story.

609
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: Of course, last week.

610
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: She got fired and the apprentice no longer as a

611
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: secretary of Department of Homeland Security after some contentious I

612
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: mean hearings and stuff, which I kind of enjoyed watching

613
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: her on. But after the two hundred million dollar commercial

614
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: ad and all the other things that had been thrown

615
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: at her as DHS secretary, maybe she wasn't ready for

616
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: prime time. I don't know. My sense, John, is the

617
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 1: reason this didn't work work ultimately, And I know you'll

618
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: tell me when I'm wrong, because I usually am. But

619
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: my sense is this was never going to work because

620
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: Christy Nome had been an executive as a governor in

621
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 1: South Dakota, and she had that kind of look at

622
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: me kind of thing, and she is a political riser too,

623
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 1: and when that gets in the way of President Trump's

624
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: agenda and somebody starts making it seem like they're coequal

625
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: leaders when she actually works for the executive branch as

626
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: DHS secretary.

627
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: That was always going to be an.

628
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: Issue just because of the two very very forward alpha

629
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: personalities at play President Trump and her.

630
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 2: What do you think about that?

631
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 5: I think Christy nome abused for isn't Trump's trust in faith?

632
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: She abused the office.

633
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 5: She flew around on a private jet that was outfitted

634
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 5: for a king, not a cabinet secretary. And if that

635
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 5: wasn't enough, she had to have a toured affair with

636
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 5: Corey Lewandowski, who I happen to know very well and

637
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 5: I consider him a friend of mine, but that doesn't

638
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 5: prevent me from being objective. Corey has a problem when

639
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 5: it comes to the ladies. He can't help himself. And

640
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 5: you know, there are probably a lot of people that

641
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 5: can relate, but they impose self discipline because they don't

642
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 5: want to offend God and they don't want to abuse

643
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 5: their loved ones, namely their wife and children. I'm sorry, Corey,

644
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 5: I love you, but you've done both. And I think

645
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 5: that that has as much to do with the fall

646
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 5: of Christinom as anything else. I mean, the fact of

647
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 5: the matter is, I think she was doing exactly what

648
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 5: Trump wanted her to do at DHS. I mean she

649
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 5: was leading the deportation effort with Tom Holme, who was

650
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 5: a subordinate, and they were having an impact, not as

651
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 5: great and not as fast as people would probably like,

652
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 5: but we shrunk the number of illegals in this country

653
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 5: from twenty million to eighteen million, and a lot of

654
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 5: self deported under fear of being sent to Alligator Alcatraz

655
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 5: and being deported in an inhumane manner. And I think

656
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 5: that's part of the problem the Prisident's got. Frankly, you know,

657
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 5: we elected him because of the border largely, and we

658
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 5: wanted him to deport the illegals. But what we didn't

659
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 5: say is that we don't want you to do that

660
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 5: in an inhumane manner. And the general manager of Beach,

661
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 5: a restaurant in Palm Beach, Florida, which is frequented by

662
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 5: a lot of Trump supporters and billionaires, was swept up

663
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 5: in a traffic spot, sent to Ice, and forty eight

664
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 5: or twenty four hours later, he's in Alligator Alcatraz, not

665
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 5: eating on the white table claws from Beacha, but eating

666
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 5: on a cardboard box on a cement floor. And people

667
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 5: were outraged, and I think rightfully so, because this guy

668
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 5: had been in our country for thirty years, had violated

669
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 5: no crimes, had a wife, had a fam, has a family,

670
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 5: and had not violated the laws other than having come

671
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 5: here illegally. Now, some people say that's all you need

672
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 5: to know, straight go straight home. I just think it's

673
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 5: more complicated than that. It is more complicated than that

674
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 5: in my mind, and a lot of people are free

675
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 5: to disagree, Oh, he came here illegally, lock him up,

676
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 5: send him home. Well, okay, I don't think the majority

677
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 5: of the people go along with that thought, that that theory.

678
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: I think there have to.

679
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 5: Be categories and degrees of who and how we deport.

680
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 1: It's still really close to sixty percent of the American

681
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: people in poll after poll john say that if you're

682
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: here illegally, you should leave. I mean still, and it's

683
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: still it's still a majority of Americans who believe that,

684
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: regardless of whether you have broken any other laws, if

685
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: you are here illegally, you need to go back and

686
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: get back in line and try again. Well, I get that.

687
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 5: I think even of those sixty percent people that would

688
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 5: know the case of this guy that I'm talking about,

689
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 5: and he is the exception, but his brother works in

690
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 5: our Italian restaurant just around the corner from him, and

691
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 5: he's been seeing a judge every six months for the

692
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 5: last ten years, and they continue to allow him to stay.

693
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 5: So they're not hiding, they're not. But so it I'm

694
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 5: just saying it's complicated and it's not as straightforward as

695
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 5: people believe. We all want simple answers, but this is

696
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 5: a complicated problem. So I've authored the Gordon Plan to

697
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 5: sensible deportation, and I think that the President would be

698
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 5: well served if he were to read it and consider it,

699
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 5: because it's paradoxical.

700
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: We elected him because of the border.

701
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 5: The midterms are going to be lost because of the

702
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 5: perception that people are being treated in an inhumane method

703
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 5: of being deported. So it's not whether to deport, it's

704
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 5: how to deport. And if you're a rapist, murderer, or robber,

705
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 5: there's no sympathy.

706
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 6: Go straight to.

707
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: Seakcott and be done with it.

708
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 5: But if you have not violated the laws of our

709
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 5: country other than the immigration laws, and you've been here

710
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 5: over five years and gainfully employed and we need you,

711
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 5: I think there could be a separate way to look

712
00:45:58,600 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 5: at those people.

713
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think that length of time ought

714
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: to be taken into consideration too. John. If, like I said,

715
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 1: if you've been here over five years, you've been here

716
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: for ten years, you've been here for thirty years, and

717
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: you haven't proved that you're not a productive part of

718
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: our society, that you're not a part of the community.

719
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: I mean you you probably should have a pass through.

720
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. I don't think there's anything

721
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: unreasonable about what you're saying. But the mentality still is

722
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: if if you broke the law by coming into the

723
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: country and didn't follow the rules, then there has to

724
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: be some kind of I don't know, recomp well for the.

725
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 5: American Yes, and this is the part of the Gordon plan.

726
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 5: If you've been here more than five years, we're going

727
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 5: to give you a Trump visitor card is a gold card,

728
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 5: and it will allow you to continue to work here

729
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 5: for some period of time to be determined by the Polkers.

730
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: But part of.

731
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 5: The contract is that you will not register to vote,

732
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 5: You will not attempt to register to vote, you will

733
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 5: not accept social services, you will get a social security guard,

734
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 5: you will pay your taxes. In the agricultural industry in

735
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 5: this country would really be hurt if you sucked all

736
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 5: the illegals out of the country at a moment's notice,

737
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 5: and ditto for construction, hotels, restaurants. So we can fashion

738
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 5: a win win here, and we can do it by

739
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 5: turning the COVID inoculation centers into visitor registration centers. And

740
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 5: under the Gordon plan, you would have six months to

741
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 5: register and if you don't register and you get caught,

742
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 5: you're going straight to Alligator Alcatraz, no questions asked. But

743
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 5: if you do register, then we're going to vet you.

744
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,479
Speaker 5: We're going to consider you. If you've been here less

745
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 5: than five years, we're going to depot you humanely. We're

746
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 5: not going to send you to a jail or a

747
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 5: prison that you're going to have. You're gonna be given

748
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 5: seventy two hours maybe a week to get your affairs

749
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 5: in order and say your goodbyes.

750
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: But then you're out of here.

751
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 6: But you can't go.

752
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 5: Home, and we will move you to the front of

753
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 5: the line for a future consideration to come back. If

754
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 5: you've been here over five years ago, then we're gonna

755
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 5: vet you. And if you haven't broken the law and

756
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 5: you paid your taxes, or if you're willing to start

757
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 5: paying your taxes. Then we're going to look at you differently,

758
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 5: and you might get to stay another three or five

759
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 5: years if you're sponsored.

760
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: I think it's sensible.

761
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 5: I think it gives Trump a chance to turn the

762
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 5: whole conversation on the Democrats and become a hero rather

763
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 5: than a villain as he's being portrayed by the mainstream

764
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 5: media and the liberal left. Like I want to say,

765
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 5: I want to save us for the midterms. I'm not

766
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 5: coddling immigrants. I'm not being soft on illegality.

767
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to.

768
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 5: Come up with a pragmatic way that everybody can win.

769
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 5: And there's there are wins there that we can agree,

770
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 5: we should be able to agree on.

771
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,439
Speaker 1: It's called the art of the Deal, John, and think

772
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: you've laid down some good terms, Well, thank you.

773
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 5: I think I might retitle it so the Gordon plant

774
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 5: will be the art of the Deal planned by Donald.

775
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 1: Trump, right exactly, just retooled that. No, the Christy Nome thing.

776
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: You know, I I have to admit as a as

777
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: a married man who loves my wife and doesn't want

778
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: to offend God. I still thought she was pretty hot, So.

779
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 5: Totally I've had lunch with him. Your assessment is correct. Yeah,

780
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 5: but she has a husband, and I don't know about

781
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 5: a family.

782
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: But Corey's got two kids.

783
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 5: And you know, Jimmy Carter, he got in the hot

784
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 5: trouble in the seventies when he said in a Playboy

785
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 5: interview lusted that for many women in.

786
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:02,479
Speaker 1: His horse in his heart.

787
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 5: Well, I just thought, I just thought it was a

788
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 5: moment of candor. And boy did he get blowback from

789
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 5: that in putting from his wife. The Bible says you

790
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 5: cannot look at a woman with luck, But I mean,

791
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 5: who's able to ascribe to that standard? I mean, I'm

792
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 5: certainly not going to masquerade at somebody.

793
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 2: I'm not every sin. Every sin begins with a thought.

794
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 5: Josh, Well, that's true, and I acknowledge that. But I'll

795
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 5: tell you what gives me paused, and why I don't

796
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,280
Speaker 5: act on those urges is because I have been married

797
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 5: forty eight years and I have three boys. The last

798
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,760
Speaker 5: thing I would ever want to do on this earth

799
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 5: is to hurt either one of them.

800
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: Amen.

801
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 5: And so it's a pretty good way to self discipline

802
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 5: and keep your marriage intacted too.

803
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: I love my wife. Now, what about what do you

804
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: make of the President's Mission Operation epic fury and its

805
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: leg gal. The Democrats are still screaming it's illegal and

806
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: it's unconstitutional, and you know, they basically kind of settled

807
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: that in Congress more or less that the president was

808
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: within his rights and within the War Powers Act of

809
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, which by the way, is not a

810
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 1: constitutional thing. But anyway, just an overview of that, how

811
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: do you think he's handled this? And for them to

812
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: already be calling it a forever war when we're eleven

813
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 1: days in is well, it sounds very political, doesn't it.

814
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 5: Well, of course we've pulicized everything in this country to

815
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 5: a fault. But I will to say that Jimmy Carter

816
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 5: and I'm sorry Ronald Reagan done their jobs back in

817
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 5: the seventies, we wouldn't have this mess today.

818
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: I agree.

819
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 5: So I support Donald Trump unqualifiedly.

820
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: I think he is playing with buyer.

821
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 5: You got Russia there and you got China there, and

822
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 5: they've both allied with Iran. And the new Supreme Leader

823
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 5: is the old Supreme Leader.

824
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: Son, and he is.

825
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 5: Been rumored to be more hardlined than his dad. Plus

826
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 5: he has a score to settle because Trump had him killed,

827
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 5: and so revenge is very much part of the play.

828
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,800
Speaker 1: I really thought that there was a chance.

829
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 5: That we would get a more moderate leader in the

830
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 5: vision of the former shaw of Iran, who we had

831
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 5: good relationships with, who ironically we helped depose big mistake.

832
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 5: But I was hopeful, and now my hopes have been dashed.

833
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 5: President Trump says he's unacceptable, that he's a lightweight, and

834
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 5: that Trump has veto power and this is.

835
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 7: Not going to happen.

836
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know how much longer he is for

837
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: this world either, because the Israelis and our intelligence has

838
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: been very good at targeting and taking out the leadership.

839
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: He's just next on the list. John, I'm not worried

840
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: about the younger Commany at all or Comedy. I don't

841
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: think he's going to be around very long, and I

842
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 1: don't think that the regime is going to be around

843
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: very long until it totally collapses. I believe that we

844
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: are on that path.

845
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 5: I really do, well as do I and I hope

846
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:32,439
Speaker 5: that you're right.

847
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 1: It needs to fall.

848
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 5: They have committed terrorism and atrocities around the world since

849
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 5: taking our embassy in the late seventies, and kept fifty

850
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 5: six of our embassy personnel. I believe fifty three or

851
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 5: fifty six, Yeah, over two years, and we just we

852
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 5: got him back and then we basically said, hohm okay,

853
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 5: it's over.

854
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: We should have gone in and bombed the crap out

855
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: of the listen. I was on the radio. I'm nineteen,

856
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: twenty years old, John in nineteen eighty, I'm on the

857
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: radio and we're playing the bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb, bomb Iran,

858
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: which has made a comeback now all of a sudden

859
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: forty seven years later, forty six years later. But I

860
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: remember all of that very well and thinking why they

861
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: they just declared war. They just took over our embassy.

862
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I know nothing about geopolitics. I'm nineteen years old,

863
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: but I said, why aren't we at war with them

864
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 1: right now? And I thought that then and after the

865
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: Bey Route it was Eric's bombing. It wasn't active percent.

866
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 5: And I don't know where the will is of the

867
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 5: our US leadership, but President Trump is dealing with all

868
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 5: of this stuff. And you know, Cuba has been a

869
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:55,439
Speaker 5: thorn on our sides since nineteen sixty and I think

870
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 5: we're on the verge of taking over Cuba.

871
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,720
Speaker 1: And there's so much in it for the people in Qba.

872
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 5: You know, I saw a YouTube video last month from

873
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 5: this kid who just flew there and gave himself a tour,

874
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 5: and he videoed the whole thing. They are mired in

875
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 5: the fifties. They are in abject poverty.

876
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: Oh geez.

877
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 5: And man, I'm telling you, a year from now that

878
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 5: place can shine and sparkle with tourism and bring back

879
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 5: the casinos, and it could be a real destiny.

880
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 1: It'd be easier to rebuild than Gaza, that's for sure. Listen,

881
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: John Gordon, thank you so much for your time today

882
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: and all your insight. It's always good to talk to you.

883
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I enjoyed it. Yeah it's a Monday,

884
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: but you know, he always makes a Monday sound like

885
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:43,240
Speaker 1: the weekend.

886
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 2: He's so much fun.

887
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: Our friend from Fort Wright, the Mad Hatter, the mayor

888
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: of Fort Wright, and from Interest It, our security and

889
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: cyber expert of sorts, the one the only Doomsday Dave,

890
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 1: Dave Hatter, rejoins us on this nightcap. Good evening, Dave,

891
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: always my pleasure, carriage.

892
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 7: Yes, I appreciate you having me on.

893
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: No, I appreciate you helping me fill this time, this

894
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: valuable seven hundred WLW Nation station time. The first story

895
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: I just caught the headline and we'll get a glimpse

896
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 1: inside that. Obviously, it said AI weapons with minds of

897
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: their own. And you know where my mind went instantly, Dave,

898
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: It went to nineteen eighty seven and the movie RoboCup

899
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: with Peter Weller, the robot officer who seemingly had a

900
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: mind of his own and went rogue. And then I

901
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: remembered this guy from the movie.

902
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 6: I'd buy that for a dollar.

903
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 2: Good RoboCup, I'd buy that for a dollar.

904
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: And here's the guy walking into the store, and I'm

905
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: I'm just watching. But so the AI weapons, weapons with

906
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 1: minds of their own, This is something that I've worried

907
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: about for a long time, obviously almost forty years.

908
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it's a real concern. You know, we've

909
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 7: seen now robotic dogs with machine guns, and drones with

910
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 7: machine guns, and robotic dogs with flame throwers and all

911
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 7: kinds of wild stuff.

912
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: And I mean, you know.

913
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 7: Who knows what's being worked on behind the sealed doors

914
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 7: of some lambs somewhere that the public has seen or

915
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 7: possibly is even being used today out there, right. I mean,

916
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 7: we've seen rapid advances with drone technology coming out of

917
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 7: Ukraine and now being used in the Iranian conflict. Yeah,

918
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 7: I think it's a real concern. I know there's been

919
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 7: testing and you know with autonomous jets to take on

920
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 7: real you know, real life fighter pilots that seem to

921
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 7: be able to bet them at this point, so you know,

922
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 7: it's it's concerning for sure. I think RoboCop is a

923
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 7: good example of, you know, how these things could go

924
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 7: wrong if you remember the I forget what the big

925
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 7: robot with the mini guns and the arms is called,

926
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 7: but if you would call it goes goes off the

927
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 7: rails at some point. I mean, I'm science fiction writers

928
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:21,919
Speaker 7: have warned about this sort of thing for a long time.

929
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 7: There's an old series, I think from the late seventies

930
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 7: and early eighties, Berserker by Fred Saberhagen.

931
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: I'd be amazed if any of.

932
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,919
Speaker 7: Your listeners is familiar with this. But I got onto

933
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 7: this when I was a kid, and I'm pretty sure

934
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 7: Lucas got some of his ideas for Star Wars from it.

935
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 7: Because the basic gist, Gary Jeff, is you have this

936
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 7: race of sentient machines and when they were created eons ago,

937
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 7: their one purpose was to wipe the whole life in

938
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 7: the universe, So the whole, the whole, and that's a

939
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 7: series of books. The whole book though, or the series

940
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 7: is really about mankind fight for humanity against these senient

941
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 7: machines that are have to wipe them out, think like

942
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 7: death Star type machines that are just coming through the

943
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 7: universe looking for any forms of life and wiping them out.

944
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 7: So kind of interesting in light of you know, how

945
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 7: all this technology is progressed today, and you know, I'm

946
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 7: I'm not too worried that something like that is going

947
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 7: to happen anytime soon, but I do think it is

948
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 7: concerning to think that possibly today or in the very

949
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 7: near future, you will have fully autonomous combat rade vehicles, tanks, ships, planes, drones,

950
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 7: missiles that you know, could on their own make a

951
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 7: determination that you are a target and take you out

952
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 7: versus in the past. You know, we've seen drones use

953
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:37,959
Speaker 7: for all kinds of things, but typically there's a human

954
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,439
Speaker 7: operator that's ultimately making a decision, usually with approval through

955
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 7: the chain of command, that you know that is a

956
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 7: legitimate target and to attack it versus again, a robot

957
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 7: dogs going down the street and decides, you know, it

958
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 7: does like cut of your jib and today is your

959
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 7: day to meet your maker.

960
00:59:54,080 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just like I said, watching just watching this

961
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: latest operation Epic Fury Day, and watching what we did

962
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: in Venezuela to capture Maduro and all of the new

963
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: technology and weaponry, it makes me think, well, you and I,

964
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: if they can do this in another country, you and

965
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: I if they tend to, if they wanted to turn

966
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 1: their sights on us, we're toast no matter how much

967
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 1: we try and protect ourselves, aren't we.

968
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 7: It would be interesting for sure. You know, I was

969
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 7: in the Army Reserves from eighty six to ninety four,

970
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 7: and you know, when you look at the technology that

971
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 7: was available then in terms of just you know, sheer

972
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 7: firepower and the ability to really drop some significant ordinance

973
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 7: our target, it was depressive, certainly compared to like World

974
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 7: War two years now, you know, we're forty years past that,

975
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 7: and you know, the stuff that we had access to

976
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 7: it then seems like children is compared to the kind

977
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 7: of things you're seeing today. Of one of the things

978
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 7: that ties into this, not directly, but it's certainly tertiary

979
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 7: to it is the idea that you know, apparently one

980
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 7: of the things and this is one of the reasons

981
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 7: why I despise the Internet of Things with or without

982
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 7: any kind of AI component.

983
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 1: Is apparently.

984
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 7: Israel hacked all of these surveillance cameras in Iran before this,

985
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 7: Russia has done the same thing in Ukraine, and then

986
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 7: you know, you use that as part of their targeting.

987
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:29,439
Speaker 7: So we keep adding in all of these so called

988
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 7: smart devices that in many cases are you know, really

989
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 7: little more than thinly veiled spyware. They get hacked in

990
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 7: any event of a conflict or just from an ability

991
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 7: to surveil you twenty four to seven. You know, it

992
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 7: certainly would make it that much more viable in the

993
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 7: event of an adversarial nation that wanted to launch an

994
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 7: attack on the United States to attempt to compromise those

995
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 7: We've seen all kinds of stories about the Chinese Community

996
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 7: Party compromising our critical colligire infrastructure and other critical infrastructure.

997
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 7: You know, we're all of this stuff is moving very fast,

998
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 7: and unfortunately, I don't think we are really thinking about

999
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 7: the potential long term consequences of this stuff.

1000
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: A database was recently exposed by researchers at something called upguard.

1001
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: This database contained billions of email addresses and passwords and

1002
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: storing perhaps as many as one billion social security numbers.

1003
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 2: Fill me in on this.

1004
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: Story if you will.

1005
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, this is really, really bad, and one of the

1006
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 7: reasons why people like me are constantly telling you you

1007
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 7: must use multi factor authentication aka two step verification or

1008
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 7: two factor authentication on all your accounts. I would bet

1009
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 7: you there's not a single person in your listening audience

1010
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 7: that has not gotten at least one letter from some

1011
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 7: organizations saying their data has been breached. Right. So, even

1012
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 7: if companies are trying to handle your data responsibly, in

1013
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 7: some cases, because of the nature of what they do,

1014
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 7: they're targeted. Your data gets out there, it gets rolled

1015
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 7: up with other data sets, and then you find these

1016
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 7: online databases like this, a billion billion social security numbers,

1017
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 7: billions of records in these databases. You may recall, Gary, Jeff,

1018
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 7: I'm pretty sure we talked about it previously a couple

1019
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 7: of years ago. National Public Data, which is a company

1020
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 7: that does background checks teleblens of data breach. I think

1021
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 7: of the incredibly sensitive information you are turning over in

1022
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 7: a background check. Places you've lived, places you've worked, people

1023
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 7: you're related to. If I had all that information about you,

1024
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 7: and that I wanted to either a attempt.

1025
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 8: To defraud some organization, to identity theft because I pretended

1026
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 8: to be you or B, and probably even more likely

1027
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 8: I wanted to use that information to launch a tax

1028
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 8: on you very carefully trapped at social engineering attacks delivered

1029
01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 8: via email, text.

1030
01:03:58,800 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 1: Or phone.

1031
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 7: Think of how how easy it would be for me

1032
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 7: if I had all that information from national public data,

1033
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 7: background check data on you, to create very authentic messages

1034
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 7: to you, claiming to be from your bank, claiming to

1035
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 7: be from your your son, whomever. Right, all that data

1036
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 7: is in the hands of bad guys who are using

1037
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 7: it in all kinds of the various ways, and this

1038
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 7: is just yet another example of it. Now, multi factor

1039
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 7: authentication does not prevent identity depth in your name or

1040
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 7: you being targeted for these kind of attacks, But what

1041
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 7: it does do is it makes it much get more

1042
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 7: difficult for the bad guys to actually just log in

1043
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 7: and take over your account because they found passwords. They

1044
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 7: know people reuse passwords over and over. They know people

1045
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 7: have terrible passwords, and they know it because they see

1046
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 7: that the passwords people have these data ducks like this.

1047
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 7: So you know, my first advice would be when you

1048
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 7: see these kind of stories, I know a lot of

1049
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 7: people get discouraged and say, well, what can I do?

1050
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,919
Speaker 7: My data is already all out there anyway. Well, once

1051
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 7: you can do is again turn on multipacturer authentication on

1052
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 7: all your accounts, especially anything sensitive like financial account. Change

1053
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 7: your password. Ideally, get a password manager like one Password,

1054
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 7: a secure, vetted, reputable password manager like one Password. Use

1055
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 7: it to create and manage strong passwords across all your accounts,

1056
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 7: which are easy to change once you have a password manager,

1057
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 7: and then you know, my advice would be go freeze

1058
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 7: your credit at all three credit bureaus so that someone

1059
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 7: can't try to take out credit in your name. It's

1060
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 7: not a bad idea to get an endees death monitoring.

1061
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 7: Can you do what these companies do on your own, maybe,

1062
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 7: but you can't do it at the scale they can

1063
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 7: do it. You are you're going to be as disciplined

1064
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 7: about it. Plus, they have attorneys that can help you

1065
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 7: if and when you run into one of these issues. Certainly,

1066
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 7: if you get a letter here, yes, if you get

1067
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 7: a letter seeing your data has been briefed and they

1068
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 7: offer the adendees to service, you should definitely sign up

1069
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 7: for that. And then sadly, especially now when a creating

1070
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 7: even more realistic content coupled with all this data that's

1071
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 7: availab about you, you have to maintain a very very

1072
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 7: healthy dosa skepticism. We are now in a place where

1073
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 7: you can't believe anything you see. It could be a

1074
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 7: phone call where the phone number spoofed. It could be

1075
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 7: a text message where the phone numbers spoofed. It could

1076
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 7: be an email address where the phone numbers spooped. And

1077
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 7: by spoofed, I mean it looks legitimate to the naked eye,

1078
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 7: and unless you know how to get under the hood

1079
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 7: of it, there's no way to know that it's thick.

1080
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 7: It could be a phone call, you know, any of

1081
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 7: these mechanisms and are currently being used. Couple that with

1082
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 7: all this data, right, it makes it easy for them

1083
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 7: to come after you. So again, while I understand that

1084
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 7: these kinds of stories are disheartening and people probably are

1085
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 7: somewhat desensitized, it's not outright numb to it all. You

1086
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 7: really do need to take this stuff in your own hands.

1087
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 7: Be skeptical, MFA strong unique passwords. You know it will

1088
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 7: is it fool proof, No, but it will make you

1089
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 7: a much much more difficult target, and in most cases

1090
01:06:59,160 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 7: they'll just move on.

1091
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 1: We've talked many, many times, Da've hatter about the ability

1092
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 1: to clone people's images and their voices. It's very simple.

1093
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: Almost anyone can do it. Is there was a public

1094
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: radio broadcaster who felt like they had used his voice,

1095
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 1: they had recreated his voice through AI, and he's suing them.

1096
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 1: Can I legally trademark my persona and my voice? And

1097
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 1: should I do it in the age of AI?

1098
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 7: I don't know if you could trademarket or not. I

1099
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 7: would think that you probably could. But that's a good question,

1100
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 7: is it. You know, I'm not sure it's going to

1101
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 7: help you.

1102
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 1: Though, because I mean, you know, there's all kinds.

1103
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 7: Of lawsuits in the court system now about these AI

1104
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 7: companies and scraping the internet to train their models and

1105
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 7: you know, essentially stealing content from publishers and so forth.

1106
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 7: You know, I will say this, You're absolutely right about

1107
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 7: your point that this is easy to do. I have

1108
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 7: done it numerous times, including with TV interviewers, where we

1109
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 7: literally clone their voice. In fact, in one case, because

1110
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 7: what I'll often hear Gary Jeffers, well, I'm not a

1111
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 7: celebrity like Gary Jeffer. Sheila Gray are filling the blank right,

1112
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 7: how are you going to.

1113
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:16,000
Speaker 1: Get my boy? Wow, you just put me in Sheila

1114
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: Gray's category. That's thank you so much, Jave. What a

1115
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: great what a great attribution.

1116
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 7: You're in the top tier of Cincinnati media celebrity.

1117
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, okay, so anyway go ahead.

1118
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 7: But my point is, you know you're not a celebrity.

1119
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 7: How would I get your voice full? Okay? If I

1120
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 7: call your phone, do you have a voicemail greeting? So

1121
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 7: that you do, I can record it, uploaded into one

1122
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 7: of these voice cloning models, and I'm you in about

1123
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 7: fifteen minutes. And again this is not speculation. I actually

1124
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 7: did it with a reporter out of Columbus, Steve Levine.

1125
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 7: You know, I've done this with several reporters, but we

1126
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 7: didn't actually go through the process of what I just described.

1127
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:57,720
Speaker 6: We literally he.

1128
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 7: Came to the Entrust offices, We called his phone from

1129
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 7: my phone. I recorded his voicemail greeting on my phone,

1130
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 7: uploaded that into a free voice cloning tool online that

1131
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 7: I had never used before, just to prove how easy

1132
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 7: this is. And at about fifteen minutes you can literally watch,

1133
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 7: you know, folks can go out of this search ABC

1134
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 7: six Steve Levine voice cloning, or hit any of my

1135
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 7: social media. I've posted this several times to try to

1136
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 7: demonstrate how easy this is. You can literally watch me

1137
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 7: type and his voice come out of my speakers. So, yeah,

1138
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 7: this is all real, and this is part of why

1139
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 7: you simply cannot trust anything when you get a call

1140
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 7: in the middle of the night the claims to be

1141
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 7: from the Hamlet County Schrieff's office and your son is

1142
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 7: in jail for DUI or anything like this. Right, I

1143
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 7: just had someone tell me they had this scam happen

1144
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:49,680
Speaker 7: to them. Understand that the voice you hear on the

1145
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 7: other end, whether it's someone you know or someone you

1146
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,759
Speaker 7: don't know, easily cloned. Can I go to the Hamlet

1147
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 7: County Sheriff's website and looked up Deputy such and such? Yes,

1148
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 7: I can. Hey, this is Deputy such and such from

1149
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 7: the Hami Accounty Sheriff's Office. Column. Yeah, I wanted you

1150
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 7: to know that your your son is in jail for

1151
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 7: DUI and I'm going to need you to go get

1152
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 7: some some Venmo whatever or gift cards or take money

1153
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:15,799
Speaker 7: to a Bitcoin atm. These things are happening all the time.

1154
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:18,719
Speaker 7: All of this data that we just previously talked about

1155
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 7: is dueling these things because they know what to say.

1156
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 7: They have information about you and your loved ones and

1157
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 7: so forth that they could tap into. And then again

1158
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:29,919
Speaker 7: you throw in the AI deep say capability of these tools.

1159
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:32,720
Speaker 7: Could your boss leave you a message telling you to

1160
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 7: do a wire transfer? Absolutely? Could your spouse to you

1161
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 7: there in jail or have some other critical issue and

1162
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 7: you need to do something immediately. Absolutely, And you know

1163
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,760
Speaker 7: that's part of the angle, Gary Jeff, a social engineering angle,

1164
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 7: catch you off guard, create a crisis of some sort,

1165
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:51,719
Speaker 7: or sometimes it's the opposite. You have to act quickly

1166
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 7: because some awesome thing is going to happen, but you

1167
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 7: have a limited window for that awesome thing to happen.

1168
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: Dave had her excellent informed as always. I appreciate your

1169
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 1: time this evening as always, and we will talk again soon,

1170
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 1: my friend. I'm confident of.

1171
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 7: That, my twest thank you, sir.

1172
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 2: You got it.

1173
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 1: It's the nightcap and it continues your Gjdubbs joined by

1174
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 1: the other Walker who I'm not related to by blood,

1175
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 1: maybe brothers of the microphone perhaps, but you know he

1176
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: doesn't like to share microphones, so we give him a

1177
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 1: whole half hour here. He is the sports Commando, the original,

1178
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 1: the only wild Man Walker, and he joins us. Now,

1179
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: Good evening, wild.

1180
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,799
Speaker 6: Man, Good evening, Good evening.

1181
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 1: So let's start. Let's start with the not so good news.

1182
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 1: And I know you got really good news and exciting news,

1183
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:54,960
Speaker 1: and I want to share that with everybody and your

1184
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 1: take on it. But first and foremost your take on

1185
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:05,280
Speaker 1: the law season of West Miller and University of Cincinnati basketball,

1186
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 1: because it was over obviously on Saturday. When you see

1187
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 1: loss to TCU. They had to win that game, and

1188
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: they had to win a couple in the Big Twelve

1189
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: Tournament to be considered on the inside for the NCAA tournament.

1190
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 1: Now they've got to win the whole Big Twelfth Tournament

1191
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 1: to get into the Big Dance. And I just don't

1192
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: see that happening, wild Man.

1193
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:26,800
Speaker 2: What about you?

1194
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 6: They did not play well against the Horned Frogs at all,

1195
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 6: maybe the first couple of minutes and then there was

1196
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 6: lights out. The Bearcats have to win at least three

1197
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:42,640
Speaker 6: games here in this tournament in order to be considered

1198
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 6: to even make the dance. If they win it, yeah

1199
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 6: they're in. We know that, but they'd have to win

1200
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 6: three and I don't see them winning three games in

1201
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 6: this tournament, and that would be five straight years without

1202
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 6: U see at the Big Dance, which means to me

1203
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 6: that wes Miller should be looking for a job and

1204
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 6: when he goes, the AD should go with him. And

1205
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 6: if you took a pole, if you took a scientific,

1206
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 6: real pole off U see basketball fans, they would all

1207
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,480
Speaker 6: tell you wes Miller needs.

1208
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:15,680
Speaker 1: To go well, and I can understand exactly why they

1209
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 1: would say that. It's been We've had enough sample time here.

1210
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 1: We've seen what he can do with the transfer portal

1211
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 1: and nil money and getting players here that fit to

1212
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 1: whatever system he thinks is going to work, and so yeah,

1213
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: it's over with, you know. And and start contrast to that,

1214
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:42,680
Speaker 1: Richard Patino has plenty of time left at Xavier and he.

1215
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 6: Should absolutely absolutely you know.

1216
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 1: But you can see Richard Patino turning that Xavier team

1217
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:55,440
Speaker 1: around quicker than what we've seen obviously with the Bearcats

1218
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 1: during during wes Miller's tenure. And like I said, he's

1219
01:13:58,080 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 1: had enough time.

1220
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 6: Yeah what I hear though, And I got a couple

1221
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 6: of friends that are really close to the Xavier program.

1222
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 6: Xavier doesn't have a lot of l money though. They

1223
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 6: don't have a lot, so they're gonna have to picking

1224
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 6: shoes who they're going to bring in here. They don't

1225
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 6: have a lot of that, a lot of that cash,

1226
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 6: you know, to throw around. But nevertheless, Patino people, people

1227
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 6: are still believing and Richard Patino, they really do well.

1228
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the legacy of his father alone

1229
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: takes him a long way. And his dad has obviously

1230
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 1: taught him a lot about leadership and about coaching, even

1231
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 1: just through osmosis being his father. But I think you know,

1232
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: he hadn't really written on his father's coat tails. He's

1233
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 1: He's had success, He's had success on his own, and

1234
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 1: he will continue to. I believe you just got a

1235
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:47,639
Speaker 1: good foundation. You know what I'm saying.

1236
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 6: I'm waiting for the I'm waiting for them. There's other

1237
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:53,680
Speaker 6: shoot to drop to say, wild Man, who would you

1238
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:55,480
Speaker 6: want to coach? Do you see bearcats?

1239
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 1: Wild Man? I want who would you want to Who

1240
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:00,679
Speaker 1: would you want to coach? The U see bear catch

1241
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 1: in basketball? Wild Man at the top of my list.

1242
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,360
Speaker 6: He's the head coach of the Saint Louis Billikins, who

1243
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 6: has taking that team from the depths of hell to

1244
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:11,600
Speaker 6: to to to winning every year. Now, that guy, that

1245
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:14,639
Speaker 6: guy there is a great, great coach, the head coach

1246
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 6: of the Saint Louis Billikins.

1247
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 1: You don't know his name.

1248
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 6: I can't remember his name. Uh oh, all right, we

1249
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:25,840
Speaker 6: can always look, We can always look. Do you have

1250
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,639
Speaker 6: a second Do you have a second? Second?

1251
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:29,719
Speaker 1: One second choice?

1252
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 2: Yes?

1253
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 5: Uh?

1254
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 6: Nick van Exell, who is you know?

1255
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:33,920
Speaker 7: Who?

1256
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 6: I who? I know has expressed interest in it, but

1257
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:39,519
Speaker 6: I don't know if the Bearcat's ever even got you know,

1258
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 6: to the talking stage when that job was available with

1259
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 6: Miller before Miller was hired.

1260
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 1: Huh, Well, I mean Nick would be a nice pick

1261
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:52,120
Speaker 1: for U see alum and everything. After playing so successfully

1262
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: under Bob Huggins.

1263
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 6: He was an assistant coach in a couple of places.

1264
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:00,760
Speaker 6: So I mean he's you know, he's kept.

1265
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:04,680
Speaker 2: Is he available, wild man? Does he want to do it?

1266
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 6: I don't, I don't know. Nicha's kind of a Nick

1267
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 6: van x was kind of a hard guy to read.

1268
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 6: He really is the guy you were looking for, the

1269
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,560
Speaker 6: guy you were looking for with talked to back in

1270
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 6: the day.

1271
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're looking for the guy you were looking for

1272
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:20,519
Speaker 1: at Saint Louis's John shirts.

1273
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:23,559
Speaker 6: There you go, just look look what he's done. It's

1274
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 6: been amazing. It's been amazing.

1275
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:29,799
Speaker 1: You have a high octane offense. And he had success

1276
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 1: in Indiana State, the home of your of your favorite

1277
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 1: NBA player, Larry Bird and also Lincoln Memorial. He's uh,

1278
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 1: I'll go right back to.

1279
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 6: He had a success in Indiana State. Before that, they

1280
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 6: had onen't done nothing, They hadn't done a damn thing

1281
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:51,839
Speaker 6: until he got there. So that tells you his ability

1282
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 6: to turn amount a program right there, and now they're

1283
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 6: back to to being lousy again. Then he goes to

1284
01:16:57,080 --> 01:16:59,560
Speaker 6: Saint Louis and turns something around. And Saint Louis is

1285
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:02,680
Speaker 6: not exact a basketball school. I mean, the NBA has

1286
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 6: failed there, the ABA failed there, but for some reason,

1287
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 6: this guy, this guy's been able to resurrect the Saint

1288
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:11,720
Speaker 6: Louis program. He won't be there long. He won't be

1289
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:13,880
Speaker 6: there long. I don't know what his contract status is.

1290
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 6: I'm sure it's not a huge buyout or whatever. But

1291
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 6: if i'm if I'm uc, i'd be willing to reach

1292
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 6: out and add you know, and maybe maybe he'd be

1293
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 6: willing to bring him aboard, maybe he's willing to come here.

1294
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 1: You know who's got the perfect head coach right now

1295
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:30,680
Speaker 1: in college basketball? And I'm talking about perfect record and

1296
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 1: perfect leader for the perfect team at the perfect time.

1297
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:38,080
Speaker 1: That would be that is Miami University, and that would

1298
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 1: be Travis Steele, formerly of Xavier, and that would be

1299
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 1: the head coach of the undefeated regular season Miami RedHawks.

1300
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 2: Your thoughts was.

1301
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:53,680
Speaker 6: Thirty thirty one to oh, how can you argue with that?

1302
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 6: That automatically gets them in the big dance. I don't

1303
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 6: care what they do in the Mid American Conference tournament.

1304
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 6: Here's what kills me. Gary Jeff Akron his favorite to

1305
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:07,479
Speaker 6: win the tournament. And the last time I looked, Miami

1306
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 6: beat Akron this year. Okay, so an Akron's favorite. I'm

1307
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 6: gonna tell I told you this, you know, you know,

1308
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 6: two or three times already all season long. Travis Steel

1309
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 6: has preached to his players, we want Akron one more

1310
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 6: time to pay them back from last year, and they'll

1311
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 6: probably they'll probably get them. They'll probably get them for sure.

1312
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 6: But come on, I mean thirty one and oh, they're

1313
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,479
Speaker 6: automatically in And oh, I don't know if you saw

1314
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 6: this or not. I'm sure you might have read something

1315
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 6: where Bruce Pearl, who's an analyst I think on CBS,

1316
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 6: I think he is former coach running it, running his

1317
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 6: mouth that that, you know, the Miami the brilliant that

1318
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:47,759
Speaker 6: doesn't deserve to get in because they hadn't played anybody,

1319
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:50,680
Speaker 6: they hadn't played any Quad one teams, and they you know,

1320
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 6: they have their schedule blah blah blah. And then I

1321
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 6: know the Miami University a d sent him a scathing

1322
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:00,720
Speaker 6: message about you know, well once you you know, we've

1323
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 6: tried a number of schools to play, and then they

1324
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 6: turned this down. So what happens they went, they go

1325
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 6: thirty one and oh, right with the win. The other

1326
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 6: night over Ohio, you here's Bruce Pearl on TV sucking

1327
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:16,000
Speaker 6: up to Travis Steele. Oh, I've been rooting for you, Travis.

1328
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:18,680
Speaker 6: I've been rooting for you. I'm really pro what you

1329
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:22,639
Speaker 6: guys did. What a hypocrite, What a hypocrite? On a clown?

1330
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,080
Speaker 1: Bruce Pearl is well, Bruce Pearl is no longer a

1331
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:28,720
Speaker 1: head coach. He is a talking head on TV. And

1332
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 1: there are numerous reasons people could cite maybe a little

1333
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 1: bit of corruption here maybe a little bit of indiscretion

1334
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 1: there and maybe just a little bit too full of

1335
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:45,640
Speaker 1: himself everywhere. That's Bruce Pearl. I think you've covered him.

1336
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 1: I think you've covered that entirely.

1337
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 6: Yes, sir, I looked at you said Miami University, and

1338
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 6: I think we're starting to finally get it into people's heads. Yeah.

1339
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,840
Speaker 6: I've been seeing him on Facebook, people saying Miami.

1340
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 2: Oh instead of Miami of Ohio.

1341
01:19:57,600 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1342
01:19:58,080 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think we're finally getting it in their head.

1343
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 6: I keep wanting to appeal to the alumni the Pound

1344
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 6: at home to these idiots, that is Miami University, not

1345
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:07,320
Speaker 6: Miami of Ohio.

1346
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,720
Speaker 1: It's all about you, wild man, It's all about you.

1347
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this letter to the editor

1348
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 1: in the Inquiry. I just heard about this today about

1349
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:23,000
Speaker 1: something to the to the effect that Major League Baseball

1350
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 1: players from other countries are worried about getting swept up

1351
01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 1: by ice in a raid. And it's the most ridiculous

1352
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard in my life. And it's obviously

1353
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:43,560
Speaker 1: just more anti Trump, anti immigration enforcement narratives and nonsense.

1354
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 1: These guys number one are on a work visa. They're

1355
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 1: an illegal work visa. They can be in this country

1356
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:54,599
Speaker 1: as long as they've got that Major League Baseball work visa.

1357
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:58,240
Speaker 1: So there's no and there there was something else in there.

1358
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:01,680
Speaker 1: Make sure you carry you or your ID with you

1359
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,599
Speaker 1: at all times so you can prove who you are.

1360
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: And it's like who doesn't carrying their ID with him?

1361
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 1: Like like that's a big deal. You know, it was amazing.

1362
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 2: It was just more what what?

1363
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:17,000
Speaker 6: What clown wrote this?

1364
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 2: And of course I don't have the name. The name's

1365
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:20,719
Speaker 2: not important.

1366
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 6: The men, the paper, the paper, the papers. The paper

1367
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:27,040
Speaker 6: hasn't been anti Trump anyway, so that doesn't surprise me. No,

1368
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 6: And I think that with a with a grain of salt.

1369
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,000
Speaker 6: I mean, and who reads the paper? Who reads that paper?

1370
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,479
Speaker 6: I mean, there's sports section hasn't been worth a dam

1371
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 6: in the last twenty years. You know, I haven't subscribed

1372
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 6: to that paper. I bought a paper in the last

1373
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:41,519
Speaker 6: fifteen years, and I won't.

1374
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:44,639
Speaker 1: Wild Man. You know who read who reads that paper?

1375
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 1: Who buys that paper? Your your buddy, Andy Furman, who

1376
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 1: will be on tomorrow night. Any words for Andy on his.

1377
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 6: I think I think Andy's brought a connection. He's probably

1378
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 6: getting the paper for free. If I know Andy Furman

1379
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,719
Speaker 6: he's in that paper for free, so he's not buying

1380
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:03,640
Speaker 6: that paper.

1381
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 1: You don't think so, huh No, what else did you

1382
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:09,640
Speaker 1: have on your mind, wild man? Well, we've got the

1383
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 1: goo level, the goo valve open for you to spew.

1384
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:18,760
Speaker 6: Well, as we speak early around, I think it was

1385
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,640
Speaker 6: like four o'clock. NFL teams can now start talking new

1386
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 6: to free agent players and making their offers. And the

1387
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,599
Speaker 6: Bengals have got to get it right here. They've got

1388
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:29,960
Speaker 6: to get it right. They need defensive help. We don't

1389
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 6: need any help on offense, maybe an offensive lineman, maybe

1390
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:35,960
Speaker 6: a wide receiver, but they need defensive help. And they

1391
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 6: need to jump in and sign these guys when they're

1392
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 6: officially they can officially announce it. And I don't know

1393
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 6: if you saw this or not. Joe Mixon, I knew

1394
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 6: this was coming when they acquired the running back from

1395
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:51,880
Speaker 6: the Lions, that Joe Mixon was released, and Joe Mixon

1396
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:54,759
Speaker 6: had a hell of a career. Joe Mixon wasn't injured,

1397
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 6: he'd still be with the Houston Texas, but he's got

1398
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:00,679
Speaker 6: some kind of injury that can prevent him from from playing.

1399
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 6: And Joe Mixon was one hell of a Cincinnati Bengals player,

1400
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 6: and I would not be surprised down the road that

1401
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 6: one day he'll name will be up on that ring

1402
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,680
Speaker 6: of honor. Joe Mixon was out of a player here

1403
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:11,760
Speaker 6: and you can't deny that.

1404
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:16,679
Speaker 1: No, I don't deny it. One of the hardest runners

1405
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:21,720
Speaker 1: and punishing runners that I'd seen in a long time

1406
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:26,120
Speaker 1: in the NFL. But so, I mean his career is

1407
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 1: completely over.

1408
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 6: Now, well, I don't. It doesn't look good. I mean

1409
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:35,479
Speaker 6: it's the injury. Nobody will talk about what's wrong with him,

1410
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 6: and he did something to his leg and nobody know

1411
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 6: or his foot, nobody will talk.

1412
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 1: It really just never healed from last year.

1413
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 6: But on a sad note, I've got to get this,

1414
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:46,800
Speaker 6: And on a sad note because this goes back to

1415
01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:51,280
Speaker 6: my era. Country Joe McDonald, also known as Country Joe

1416
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 6: and the Fish Yes, passed away yesterday at the age

1417
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 6: of eighty four. He'll forever be remembered as for that

1418
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 6: iconic song at Woodstock two three four, What do we

1419
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 6: fight for? I don't give a damn next stop as them.

1420
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:09,880
Speaker 1: And it's five six seven, Open up the pearly gates, no, cause.

1421
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 2: You're all going to die.

1422
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:12,840
Speaker 1: Yep.

1423
01:24:13,439 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 6: What a classic song. In fact, I pulled it up

1424
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 6: a couple of times yesterday just to relive that moment,

1425
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:21,800
Speaker 6: because that was that was Woodstock, and that was Country Joe.

1426
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 6: He stole the show. He really did.

1427
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 1: The Fisher Chance, give me an f Yeah, all of

1428
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 1: that all right. So Country Joe is no longer with us.

1429
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 6: And eighty four years young. So he lived a good life.

1430
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,360
Speaker 1: And also no longer with us. The great Lou Holt

1431
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:41,840
Speaker 1: says of last week, and yeah, what an incredible What

1432
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:46,200
Speaker 1: an incredible man, What a great charismatic guy, a man

1433
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:51,600
Speaker 1: of faith, an incredible coach at points, but all was

1434
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 1: remembered for his TV commentating and is speaking, his public speaking.

1435
01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:58,720
Speaker 2: He was in demand as a public speaker right up

1436
01:24:58,800 --> 01:24:59,320
Speaker 2: till the end.

1437
01:24:59,479 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 1: Wild Man.

1438
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 6: I would I would things to say. I would say,

1439
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:06,280
Speaker 6: I have no doubt.

1440
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:07,559
Speaker 1: He didn't.

1441
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 6: He didn't let it. He didn't he told it out

1442
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 6: how it was. I would say that anybody that ever

1443
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 6: met Lou Holtz, they came away a better person. That's

1444
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:17,080
Speaker 6: just the kind of guy he was. I never met

1445
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:19,640
Speaker 6: Lou Holtz, but you know I was always impressed. You know,

1446
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 6: when he was talking. I mean, you would listen because

1447
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:25,120
Speaker 6: the guy was very smart and anybody that was from

1448
01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:27,160
Speaker 6: the heart. It always was from the heart when he.

1449
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:30,559
Speaker 1: Spoke, no doubt. Well, wild Man, I see this from

1450
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:34,639
Speaker 1: the heart. I appreciate your time this evening. And don't forget,

1451
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:40,160
Speaker 1: Keith O'Brien the book Heartland and the Miraculous Rise of

1452
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:43,760
Speaker 1: Larry Bird in the Spotlight next wild Man. So we've

1453
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:45,679
Speaker 1: been talking about this for a couple of weeks.

1454
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:48,720
Speaker 6: I'll be, i'll be, I'll be listening with me and

1455
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 6: I can't wait. I'm waiting, waiting with dated breath. Man,

1456
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 6: are you done with the book?

1457
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:56,599
Speaker 1: I still have a few chapters left, and I told

1458
01:25:56,680 --> 01:26:00,479
Speaker 1: you once I get done with it, the shop will.

1459
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 2: Oh You've just sent me into a coughing jag.

1460
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:10,920
Speaker 1: Listen, I'll get you the book as soon as I'm finished.

1461
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:14,200
Speaker 6: Okay, all right, okay, I can't wait to read it.

1462
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 6: I can't wait to read it.

1463
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:19,840
Speaker 2: And just remember that this one is not for coloring. Okay.

1464
01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 6: It doesn't have pictures, though, don't it. Yes, it does,

1465
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:29,320
Speaker 6: it's got pictures. Yeah, all right, well wild man. Uh

1466
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:30,280
Speaker 6: Keith O'Brien.

1467
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:32,800
Speaker 1: As I mentioned the interview that never got on the

1468
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:37,120
Speaker 1: air last week because of basketball, The book is out

1469
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 1: now and you can hear all about it if you

1470
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:44,080
Speaker 1: haven't already coming up after News, which is just minutes

1471
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:48,320
Speaker 1: away on seven hundred WLW. As we get into this

1472
01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:51,880
Speaker 1: last half hour of this Nightcat, this next interview was

1473
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:57,360
Speaker 1: recorded a week ago and last Tuesday when I thought

1474
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 1: I had a show after basketball, which obviously I did

1475
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:04,400
Speaker 1: not because the interview never got on the air. So

1476
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:09,080
Speaker 1: without any further ado, Author Keith O'Brien in his latest book,

1477
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 1: This is guy who wrote Charlie Hustle. By the way,

1478
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:17,919
Speaker 1: his latest book entitled Heartland. It's about just an incredible

1479
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:20,560
Speaker 1: thing that happened in the mid nineteen seventies in the

1480
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:25,640
Speaker 1: state of Indiana, pertaining to one particular Larry Bird. That

1481
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 1: interview for you now after you see basketball. It is

1482
01:27:30,439 --> 01:27:34,680
Speaker 1: in a very abbreviated nightcap Tonight and joining us a

1483
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:36,880
Speaker 1: guy that I've been looking forward to talking to for

1484
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:39,800
Speaker 1: a while, but apparently he's already made the rounds around here.

1485
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:42,680
Speaker 1: I booked this interview about a month ago. I heard

1486
01:27:42,760 --> 01:27:45,160
Speaker 1: him on Bill Cunningham Show. If you did not happen

1487
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:48,960
Speaker 1: to hear that interview, this is about his newest book.

1488
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:51,640
Speaker 1: He's a New York Times best selling author, the guy

1489
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:54,400
Speaker 1: who wrote Charlie Hustle, Pete Rose, Fans Come On and

1490
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 1: Fly Girls. And now the new book is Heartland, Heartland,

1491
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:07,240
Speaker 1: which is about a forgotten place and more than anything else,

1492
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:10,320
Speaker 1: it's about the miracle of Larry Bird, the hic from

1493
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 1: French Lick and really a rags to well we all

1494
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:21,200
Speaker 1: know what happens story. And I will say first and foremost,

1495
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:23,800
Speaker 1: I know you're having some trouble talking Keith. You've been

1496
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:26,439
Speaker 1: doing so many interviews. You know you ought to get

1497
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 1: paid just for plugging your book, because as much as

1498
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:30,480
Speaker 1: you get on media.

1499
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 9: If I don't plug my bug, I don't know who will.

1500
01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 9: So it's great to be back with you again.

1501
01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:36,559
Speaker 1: Thanks so much.

1502
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to have you on the air again

1503
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:43,200
Speaker 2: with us, So Keith Larry Bird.

1504
01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:46,920
Speaker 1: When I saw the pitch for this and when I

1505
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:49,479
Speaker 1: saw the book and then I got my advanced copy,

1506
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 1: I was so thrilled for very personal reasons.

1507
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:55,760
Speaker 2: And those personal reasons entail.

1508
01:28:57,720 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 1: Being an eighteen year old kid and being hoops junkie

1509
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:06,320
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine and being glued to the NCAA

1510
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:10,400
Speaker 1: tournament that year and seeing the rise of the Sycamores.

1511
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 1: Who the heck a the Sycamores Indiana so well, and

1512
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:20,160
Speaker 1: seeing and seeing this guy named Larry Bird just totally

1513
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:23,960
Speaker 1: dominating the world of major college basketball on the way

1514
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 1: to that championship game. I mean, it was a zenith

1515
01:29:27,439 --> 01:29:30,479
Speaker 1: of me as a basketball fan. And of course it

1516
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:35,080
Speaker 1: continued when Bird and Magic continued their careers in the NBA.

1517
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:39,680
Speaker 9: You were saying, well, yeah, I mean, Heartland tells the

1518
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:43,240
Speaker 9: story of the rise of Larry Bird in rural Indiana

1519
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:47,639
Speaker 9: in the nineteen seventies and during miracle of that nineteen

1520
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:52,439
Speaker 9: seventy nine Indiana eighteen. I was on stage here last

1521
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:56,040
Speaker 9: night in Tahoe, Indiana, where we did the launch of

1522
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:59,599
Speaker 9: the book, and you know, ten of those guys, most

1523
01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 9: of team came back outs. You know, we all know

1524
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:07,559
Speaker 9: that that March madness, that game between Bird and Magic,

1525
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:11,360
Speaker 9: you know, sort of start the fever around the tournament.

1526
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:14,799
Speaker 9: What I think is more compelling is it really changes

1527
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 9: the lives of everyone who was on that team.

1528
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:19,640
Speaker 1: You know, those guys in that.

1529
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 9: Locker room with Larry Bird, none of them will ever

1530
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:26,080
Speaker 9: be the same again. And that really is what this

1531
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:26,880
Speaker 9: book's about.

1532
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:30,840
Speaker 1: Well, Larry is kind of I know you did considerable

1533
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:34,640
Speaker 1: interviews with players and coaches and doing the background for

1534
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:39,320
Speaker 1: Heartland Keith. But Larry Bird has always struck me as

1535
01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 1: one of those kind of you know, close to the vest,

1536
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:48,240
Speaker 1: aw shucks, kind of quiet guys. And for you know,

1537
01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 1: you to herald him now all these years later with

1538
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:56,080
Speaker 1: this book, it's kind of crowing that Larry Bird probably

1539
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:57,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't do on his own, isn't it.

1540
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 9: Well, yeah, he wouldn't do it on his own, and

1541
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:04,000
Speaker 9: he wouldn't do it with me. I mean to be clear,

1542
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:07,559
Speaker 9: you know, Larry did not speak to me for this book.

1543
01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:11,799
Speaker 9: This book was built with more than two hundred hours

1544
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:17,240
Speaker 9: of interviews, documents, memos, letters, diaries, journals that people that

1545
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:22,280
Speaker 9: never share before. You know, and obviously as a journalist,

1546
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:25,400
Speaker 9: as a historian, I want to speak to people. I

1547
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:28,200
Speaker 9: want to speak to my subjects is certainly the subjects

1548
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 9: at the center of the story. But you know, I've

1549
01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:34,639
Speaker 9: learned over the years, including you know, through my work

1550
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:38,280
Speaker 9: on my book on p Rose, that you know, sometimes

1551
01:31:38,320 --> 01:31:41,320
Speaker 9: you can get a more accurate portrait of the person

1552
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 9: by talking to twelve fifteen, twenty five, one hundred people

1553
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:48,519
Speaker 9: around that person. You know, That's what I did here,

1554
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:51,439
Speaker 9: and you know, as you indicated, you know, this is

1555
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:54,759
Speaker 9: a story. It's bigger than Larry Bird. It's a story

1556
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:57,439
Speaker 9: of a team, a time of place, and you know

1557
01:31:58,040 --> 01:32:00,680
Speaker 9: I talked to almost everybody else who was part of that.

1558
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the coach of

1559
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:08,719
Speaker 1: that Indiana State Sycamore's team, Bill Hodges, and the crucial

1560
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:13,559
Speaker 1: role he played in getting Larry back to basketball after

1561
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:14,719
Speaker 1: he dropped out of IU.

1562
01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:17,760
Speaker 7: Well, you know, in the.

1563
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 9: Winter of nineteen seventy four seventy five, Larry Bird nearly

1564
01:32:22,520 --> 01:32:25,720
Speaker 9: disappears forever. You know, a lot of listeners will know

1565
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:30,040
Speaker 9: that Bird briefly en roles at Indiana University. He briefly

1566
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 9: has a scholarship to play for Bobby Knights. It doesn't

1567
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:36,600
Speaker 9: work out there. I did a lot of reporting around that.

1568
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:40,160
Speaker 9: That's in the book. You know, that shines a new

1569
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 9: light on what happened at Bloomington. But you know, when

1570
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:47,160
Speaker 9: he returns home to French Lick in that fall of

1571
01:32:47,280 --> 01:32:50,160
Speaker 9: seventy four and into the winter of early seventy five,

1572
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:55,320
Speaker 9: he really does nearly disappear. You know, he briefly enrolls

1573
01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 9: at a vocational school, he plays basketball there. He then

1574
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:03,840
Speaker 9: quits that team, quits that school, and ultimately it gets

1575
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 9: that job working for the city Street Department, where, among

1576
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:11,799
Speaker 9: other things, he collects the trash. And by February nineteen

1577
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:17,280
Speaker 9: seventy five, you know, Bird is playing effectively glorified pick

1578
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:22,320
Speaker 9: up basketball. He's you know, playing in the Industrial League,

1579
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:25,800
Speaker 9: which was a league of teams sponsored by taverns and

1580
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:30,400
Speaker 9: liquor stores and construction companies. He's playing with guys who

1581
01:33:30,479 --> 01:33:33,880
Speaker 9: have day jobs, who have wives, who have children. Larry

1582
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:36,559
Speaker 9: Bird has nearly disappeared. And were it not for Bill

1583
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:39,719
Speaker 9: Hodge just showing up in French Lick in the spring

1584
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:43,840
Speaker 9: of nineteen seventy five, I think, you know, Larry Bird

1585
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:45,160
Speaker 9: might have disappeared forever.

1586
01:33:46,240 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 2: So let's talk about some of the other players from

1587
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:53,720
Speaker 2: that team that I mean you may have. Can I

1588
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:56,120
Speaker 2: guess you conducted interviews with many of them?

1589
01:33:56,439 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 1: Is that true?

1590
01:33:57,800 --> 01:33:58,479
Speaker 7: With all of them?

1591
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:03,719
Speaker 1: Every single one? What were their backgrounds? Were they also

1592
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:08,760
Speaker 1: kind of like afterthoughts on the basketball map from what

1593
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:09,800
Speaker 1: I understand.

1594
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:12,000
Speaker 9: Well, right, I mean, yeah, I mean even you know,

1595
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:15,120
Speaker 9: so Bill Hodges, who recruits Larry to come to Indiana State,

1596
01:34:15,439 --> 01:34:18,759
Speaker 9: you know, he's an underdog. He's on his third assistant

1597
01:34:18,840 --> 01:34:22,439
Speaker 9: coaching job in three years. His career is moving in

1598
01:34:22,479 --> 01:34:26,600
Speaker 9: the wrong direction. But Bill is really good at recruiting

1599
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:29,640
Speaker 9: in rural Indiana. He's really good if he can get

1600
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:32,479
Speaker 9: in the living room, and you know, he begins to

1601
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 9: build a team around Bird. And I think it's important

1602
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:38,600
Speaker 9: for people to know that, you know, Bird is a

1603
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:42,679
Speaker 9: great athlete and a great basketball player from the moment

1604
01:34:42,760 --> 01:34:46,040
Speaker 9: he steps on the floor for Indiana State in the

1605
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:51,120
Speaker 9: fall of nineteen seventy six. But Indiana State itself doesn't

1606
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:54,479
Speaker 9: get any attention that year. They don't make the NCAA Tournament.

1607
01:34:54,720 --> 01:34:57,479
Speaker 9: They won't make the NCAA Tournament the following year, Larry

1608
01:34:57,520 --> 01:35:02,160
Speaker 9: Bird's second year. It is not until his final year

1609
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:06,320
Speaker 9: that they put together this miracle run with a team

1610
01:35:06,439 --> 01:35:11,240
Speaker 9: of cast OFSS second chance guys. Spare parts, but these

1611
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:14,800
Speaker 9: parts just sort of fit together. And of course it

1612
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 9: helps that they had a generational talent in Larry Bird.

1613
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:22,000
Speaker 1: From what I remember about that game, Keith and about

1614
01:35:22,040 --> 01:35:26,840
Speaker 1: that time as again an avid college basketball fan, and

1615
01:35:27,160 --> 01:35:30,080
Speaker 1: I mean, there was nothing more electric, and a lot

1616
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:32,639
Speaker 1: of the country felt that way because it had change

1617
01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:36,360
Speaker 1: the face of March Madness. That matchup between Bird and

1618
01:35:36,479 --> 01:35:40,160
Speaker 1: Johnson and Indiana State and Michigan State. But it also

1619
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:45,200
Speaker 1: changed you know the NBA when when they entered together,

1620
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:48,960
Speaker 1: that was that was just a very very special time

1621
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:54,400
Speaker 1: to be a basketball fan. And watching that Sycamore's team,

1622
01:35:55,680 --> 01:36:00,640
Speaker 1: uh go through that tournament the way they did to

1623
01:36:00,760 --> 01:36:04,759
Speaker 1: reach the final the championship game was just amazing because

1624
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:10,160
Speaker 1: as long as Bird could see another teammate who was open,

1625
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:12,719
Speaker 1: or as long as he could hit that twenty footer,

1626
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 1: they were golden. And there wasn't anybody, it seemed like

1627
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:20,840
Speaker 1: that was able to beat them until you know, Magic

1628
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 1: and Michigan State came along.

1629
01:36:23,439 --> 01:36:28,320
Speaker 9: Well, you know, in a way, Bird and Magic were

1630
01:36:28,439 --> 01:36:31,439
Speaker 9: riding wave. You know, they didn't create the wave they

1631
01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:38,800
Speaker 9: were riding in the nineteen seventies. Throughout that decade and

1632
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:43,120
Speaker 9: Sibley Basketball was growing, the tournament was growing, The tournament

1633
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:48,599
Speaker 9: set television viewership records in nineteen seventy two, nineteen seventy three,

1634
01:36:49,080 --> 01:36:53,280
Speaker 9: nineteen seventy five. More and more attention was being paid

1635
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 9: to the NCAA tournament. And then here in this moment

1636
01:36:58,240 --> 01:37:02,680
Speaker 9: comes to you know, soon to be iconic stars and

1637
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:07,280
Speaker 9: you know, that game in March nineteen seventy nine will

1638
01:37:07,320 --> 01:37:09,120
Speaker 9: be watched by fifty million people.

1639
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:12,519
Speaker 1: Yep, oh, I know it's a stunning number.

1640
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:18,240
Speaker 9: But what's really interesting is you know what happens afterwards.

1641
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:22,320
Speaker 9: You know, most listeners know how that game ends. Almost

1642
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:26,599
Speaker 9: no one knows what happens to that Indiana sty team

1643
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:30,560
Speaker 9: once they returned to rural Indiana. Yeah, and that is

1644
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:33,840
Speaker 9: the thing that really drew me to this story. You know,

1645
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:38,040
Speaker 9: there's something here at the end of this narrative that

1646
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:44,360
Speaker 9: really really blew me away and showed the power that

1647
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:49,680
Speaker 9: a team can have over a place, especially you know,

1648
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:52,000
Speaker 9: I would say a rural place.

1649
01:37:52,760 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 1: Keith O'Brien is our guest. The book is Heartland, a

1650
01:37:56,160 --> 01:37:59,479
Speaker 1: forgotten place and impossible dream in the Miracle of Larry Bird.

1651
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:03,120
Speaker 1: Back in a moment, it's an impossible dream and the

1652
01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:07,040
Speaker 1: miracle of Larry Bird and Keith you say, part of

1653
01:38:07,080 --> 01:38:12,400
Speaker 1: that miracle is the fact that Larry Bird was almost lost.

1654
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:17,439
Speaker 1: We never there was a chance in nineteen seventy four

1655
01:38:18,520 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 1: that we would have never even heard the name Larry Bird.

1656
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 1: Because you know, a guy who's collecting trash after he

1657
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 1: drops out of Indiana University and decides that Bob Knight

1658
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 1: and Bloomington aren't for him.

1659
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:36,200
Speaker 2: Is out of basketball. He's playing in all this you know,

1660
01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 2: semi pro or.

1661
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:44,559
Speaker 1: For these little construction squads you know, in men's leagues

1662
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:47,720
Speaker 1: and is to pick up leagues basically where people like

1663
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:51,280
Speaker 1: I would go to shoot hoops with very little success.

1664
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:54,679
Speaker 2: And you know, he's playing in the shadows. Nobody knows

1665
01:38:55,280 --> 01:38:55,880
Speaker 2: what's going on.

1666
01:38:56,040 --> 01:38:59,000
Speaker 1: And then Bob King and Bill Hodges convinced him to

1667
01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 1: come to Tara Hoe and played Indiana State.

1668
01:39:02,600 --> 01:39:05,160
Speaker 2: It is that is the miracle, right.

1669
01:39:06,280 --> 01:39:07,360
Speaker 1: It's certainly one of them.

1670
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:11,800
Speaker 9: You know, there are many miracles along the way that

1671
01:39:12,439 --> 01:39:16,640
Speaker 9: save Larry Bird, that change Larry Bird, that make this

1672
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:21,040
Speaker 9: Indiana team possible in nineteen seventy nine, But without question,

1673
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:25,800
Speaker 9: the greatest miracle is that Bill Hodges drove down to

1674
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:29,479
Speaker 9: French Lick looking for Larry Bird. I mean, I want

1675
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:31,840
Speaker 9: to be clear. In the winter of nineteen seventy four

1676
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:35,080
Speaker 9: to seventy five, you know, no one is talking about

1677
01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 9: Bird anymore. There are no stories being written about him,

1678
01:39:38,560 --> 01:39:41,240
Speaker 9: No one's wondering about where he might re enroll and

1679
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:44,840
Speaker 9: go play the College of Basketball. He is gone. And

1680
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:48,920
Speaker 9: even in you know the coverage of his Industrial League

1681
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:53,480
Speaker 9: games this pick up league of men's basketball in Indiana

1682
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:58,439
Speaker 9: in the mid nineteen seventies. They would often be little

1683
01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:01,439
Speaker 9: nuggets about how, you know, this team performed against that

1684
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:05,840
Speaker 9: team or this tournament this weekend. And at times in

1685
01:40:05,960 --> 01:40:09,479
Speaker 9: the Indiana papers, I mean right around French Lick, they're

1686
01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:13,080
Speaker 9: not even spelling his name, right If Larry Baird you

1687
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:17,519
Speaker 9: know b A I R D or Larry Bird D

1688
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:22,200
Speaker 9: R y D you know r D. I mean, it's

1689
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:24,920
Speaker 9: it's they don't know who he is anymore. And so

1690
01:40:25,400 --> 01:40:30,080
Speaker 9: Bill Hodges, you know, really takes a chance and he,

1691
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:33,560
Speaker 9: you know, he has to track him down literally on

1692
01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:36,880
Speaker 9: the streets of French Lick. You know, today, a player

1693
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:40,200
Speaker 9: like Bird would have handlers, they would have a team

1694
01:40:40,280 --> 01:40:41,799
Speaker 9: of people, they would have an agent.

1695
01:40:42,360 --> 01:40:42,800
Speaker 1: You would be.

1696
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:47,760
Speaker 9: Making phone calls. In nineteen seventy five, Bill Hodges is

1697
01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:52,600
Speaker 9: driving the streets of French Lick looking for Bird, and

1698
01:40:52,720 --> 01:40:55,200
Speaker 9: as he says at the time, there can't be too

1699
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:58,599
Speaker 9: many six foot eight blonde guys in this town.

1700
01:41:01,240 --> 01:41:05,120
Speaker 1: I'll relate a quick story that is not in your

1701
01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 1: book and doesn't belong in your book because it's not

1702
01:41:07,120 --> 01:41:11,360
Speaker 1: all that relevant, But about Larry Bird, I believe it

1703
01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:16,639
Speaker 1: was nineteen eighty one, probably eighty one. I'm at an

1704
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:22,840
Speaker 1: exhibition basketball game pre season between the Celtics and somebody else,

1705
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:25,920
Speaker 1: I forget who. They're playing at the Roundhouse at the

1706
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:29,040
Speaker 1: University of Tennessee, Chattanooga. I was working in Chattanooga Radio

1707
01:41:29,479 --> 01:41:32,000
Speaker 1: and I got tickets to the exhibition game. You know,

1708
01:41:32,200 --> 01:41:34,880
Speaker 1: get to see the NBA players in Chattanooga. That's not

1709
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:38,760
Speaker 1: going to happen all the time. So it's halftime and

1710
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:42,000
Speaker 1: I'm walking along the baseline under one basket, not paying

1711
01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:46,000
Speaker 1: any attention, and I look up just in time to

1712
01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:49,760
Speaker 1: keep from running into Larry Bird, who's being interviewed by

1713
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:53,400
Speaker 1: a guy from ESPN underneath the basket at halftime. So

1714
01:41:53,800 --> 01:41:55,680
Speaker 1: I thank god I looked up because if I had

1715
01:41:55,840 --> 01:41:57,560
Speaker 1: hit that Mac truck man, I would have been on

1716
01:41:57,680 --> 01:42:01,440
Speaker 1: the ground and maybe you've required, you know, medical assistance

1717
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:05,040
Speaker 1: because the dude was so big. I'm this skinny, little

1718
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:08,960
Speaker 1: twenty year old, twenty one year old kid running into

1719
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:12,200
Speaker 1: this six foot nine two and forty pound fortress.

1720
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 9: That's a great, great story is there do with this

1721
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:17,320
Speaker 9: stand up? You know?

1722
01:42:17,360 --> 01:42:20,679
Speaker 1: And I just kind of excused myself and walked around, said, wow,

1723
01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:22,200
Speaker 1: that was Larry Bird.

1724
01:42:24,760 --> 01:42:27,120
Speaker 9: But did you did you interview Magic Johnson for this?

1725
01:42:29,120 --> 01:42:32,439
Speaker 9: I did not interview Magic Johnson. You know, Magic and

1726
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:36,880
Speaker 9: Larry have become friends over the years. And you know,

1727
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:41,479
Speaker 9: because Larry wasn't participating in the book, Magic also wasn't

1728
01:42:41,479 --> 01:42:44,799
Speaker 9: going to participate in the book. But I did interview

1729
01:42:45,400 --> 01:42:48,920
Speaker 9: you know, dozens of players who played with and against

1730
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:53,880
Speaker 9: Larry in the nineteen seventies, including you know, many future

1731
01:42:54,040 --> 01:42:59,839
Speaker 9: MBA stars among them, you know, Sydney Moncrease, Mark Iguy

1732
01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:04,479
Speaker 9: and others. So, you know, and you were right not

1733
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:07,960
Speaker 9: to want to run into Larry Bird. You know, this

1734
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:12,320
Speaker 9: was a guy who really had to fight, scrape and

1735
01:43:12,479 --> 01:43:16,040
Speaker 9: claw to get you know, to get anywhere in the

1736
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:20,080
Speaker 9: nineteen seventies, and at times, as I recount you know,

1737
01:43:20,200 --> 01:43:23,599
Speaker 9: in detail in my book, you know, Bird is fighting

1738
01:43:24,479 --> 01:43:30,280
Speaker 9: players on the floor, fighting fans in the bleachers, you know, Frankly,

1739
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:34,280
Speaker 9: you know, he's doing things that if a first team

1740
01:43:34,360 --> 01:43:38,000
Speaker 9: All American in twenty twenty six was doing, there would

1741
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:41,679
Speaker 9: be ejections, there would be suspensions, there would be around

1742
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:47,880
Speaker 9: the clock, you know, news coverage about this player's indiscretions.

1743
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:51,160
Speaker 9: You know, Larry Bird in the nineteen seventies is able

1744
01:43:51,240 --> 01:43:52,200
Speaker 9: to get away with all of it.

1745
01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:55,719
Speaker 1: Talking about interviewing the players who played with and against

1746
01:43:55,840 --> 01:44:00,680
Speaker 1: Larry Bird, was there an overwriting, recurring kind of thing

1747
01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:01,160
Speaker 1: that they.

1748
01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:02,840
Speaker 2: All said about about Bird.

1749
01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:08,720
Speaker 9: There were a few, I mean, obviously there are the accolades,

1750
01:44:09,200 --> 01:44:12,879
Speaker 9: you know, you know, all the accolades about his ability

1751
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:15,760
Speaker 9: to pass, his ability to shoot, his ability to see

1752
01:44:15,800 --> 01:44:21,080
Speaker 9: the floor. But I think the most interesting common theme

1753
01:44:21,840 --> 01:44:26,080
Speaker 9: was that before people saw Bird for the first time,

1754
01:44:27,200 --> 01:44:31,240
Speaker 9: they they discounted him. They believed that he couldn't really.

1755
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:31,760
Speaker 7: Be that good.

1756
01:44:32,320 --> 01:44:34,920
Speaker 9: Part of it, I think, you know, was his race.

1757
01:44:35,400 --> 01:44:38,720
Speaker 9: You know, obviously Bird was white. Part of it was,

1758
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:44,120
Speaker 9: I think, you know, his somewhat uninspiring physical physique. You know,

1759
01:44:44,280 --> 01:44:47,639
Speaker 9: he was a bit of a scarecrow in tight powder

1760
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:52,519
Speaker 9: blue shorts. But when the players saw him for the

1761
01:44:52,600 --> 01:44:58,680
Speaker 9: first time, their opinion changed immediately, and I repul specifically

1762
01:44:59,640 --> 01:45:03,519
Speaker 9: one interview I did with a player on the New

1763
01:45:03,560 --> 01:45:07,400
Speaker 9: Mexico State Aggie's in the nineteen seventies. New Mexico State

1764
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:09,599
Speaker 9: was a great rival of Indiana State in those days,

1765
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:13,160
Speaker 9: and then before their first game against Bird, all the

1766
01:45:13,240 --> 01:45:16,760
Speaker 9: guys in that locker room, you know, discounted him and

1767
01:45:17,200 --> 01:45:20,000
Speaker 9: you know, to get down to the floor in that arena,

1768
01:45:20,120 --> 01:45:22,880
Speaker 9: the Pan American Center, in those days, you had both

1769
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:26,200
Speaker 9: teams walked down the same set of steps, and they

1770
01:45:26,280 --> 01:45:29,400
Speaker 9: were these guys on the New Mexico State team recounted

1771
01:45:29,479 --> 01:45:33,000
Speaker 9: for me how Bird was dribbling the ball through his

1772
01:45:33,240 --> 01:45:37,519
Speaker 9: legs as he walked down the stairs, and it was

1773
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:40,880
Speaker 9: some of these guys had never seen before. And that night,

1774
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:43,800
Speaker 9: you know, Larry Bird went off on New Mexico State.

1775
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:47,200
Speaker 1: I wish I could dribble the ball between my legs,

1776
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:50,800
Speaker 1: not going up or downstairs. Keith O'Brien, thank you so

1777
01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:54,519
Speaker 1: much for your time tonight. It's Heartland. It's out now,

1778
01:45:55,560 --> 01:45:58,120
Speaker 1: and if you were a fan of basketball, if you're

1779
01:45:58,120 --> 01:46:00,720
Speaker 1: a fan of great storytelling, if you're a fan of

1780
01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:05,400
Speaker 1: Larry Bird, or maybe weren't convinced by an incredible career

1781
01:46:05,600 --> 01:46:07,840
Speaker 1: at college in the NBA, you'll want to pick it up.

1782
01:46:08,280 --> 01:46:11,120
Speaker 1: Thanks again for your time, Keith, Thanks so much for

1783
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:12,439
Speaker 1: having me. You got it.