1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: The court here in the Hamilton County in study to 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:04,559 Speaker 1: talk about what is going on in his world. And 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: I remember the judges have a very difficult time right 4 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: they're on the bench. They must preside over very significant matters, 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: criminal and otherwise. And there are of course a lot 6 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: of people in the courtroom with opinions, some of them 7 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: not real Please that their brother, their husband, their wife, 8 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: whoever is being tried for murder or some other crime 9 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: or anything else. They have opinions quite often that filters 10 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: over and lands in the judges lap in the form 11 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: of insults, verbal or even threats. And then you get 12 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: the online element that I've been talking about a lot 13 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: this morning. Judge McDowell has experienced this. He's got a 14 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: great legal career. Hamilton County Court of Common Please. He 15 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: was appointed by Governor de Wine in September of last year. 16 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: He was with Strauss and Troy prior to that, outstanding 17 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: law firm. Prior to that, Dinsmore Shoal another great firm, 18 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: and of course US Army Judge Advocate General Corps between 19 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: ninety four and two thousand. Thank you for your service 20 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: to our country, Judge McDowell. Great to have you here. 21 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: It's great to be here, Thank you very much. 22 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:56,959 Speaker 1: It's a tough job, isn't it. 23 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: It's a lot harder than I thought, but it should 24 00:00:58,800 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: be hard. 25 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: Well, Yeah, a tremendous amount of responsibility comes with it. 26 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're like me, you have a profound 27 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: respect for the law. That's one of the reasons why 28 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: I went to law school. I appreciate it, you know. 29 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: I enjoyed practicing law when I did it, but I 30 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: had respect for it. And so many people just want 31 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: to write rough shot all over it and threatening a judge, 32 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: which I understand happens to you, is one of the 33 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: mechanisms they used to write rough shot over and of 34 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: course trying to get a verdict perhaps in a case 35 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: that you otherwise might not render, that is consistent with 36 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: the law. So what happened with you specifically? Apparently your 37 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: family also got threatened. 38 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, the threat was directed primarily to my family. Oh my, 39 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: The individual indicator that he was going to kill my 40 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: family if I send him to prison. And I sent 41 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: him to prison because that's where some people belong. Other 42 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: people don't belong there, but some people that's what's in 43 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: their future, and they don't like that. That's what's in 44 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: their future, and they lash out. But we can't allow 45 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: that to drive the train here. We have to do justice. 46 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: No, and again going back to my problem with social media, 47 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: same kind of thing you know politicians, you know, viv 48 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: ramosomy with this wonderful op ed that I even read 49 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: on the air this morning, you get this perception of 50 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: the public will, but it's all magnified by foreign actors, bots, 51 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, and so you get the perception that this 52 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: is the way most people you know, feel or believe 53 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: about any given issue when it is not representative of 54 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: what the constituents want. But in your court of law, 55 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: maybe it explains, and I'll ask you to chime in 56 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: on this. Your experience with a verbal threat of death 57 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,839 Speaker 1: or a threat to your family of death? Is that 58 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: maybe the answer to why judges are so soft on crime, 59 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: maybe less of a political ideology that these defendants maybe 60 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: had a bad home life, or otherwise we're victims of 61 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: some sort of societal problem and therefore shouldn't be held 62 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: accountable for their crimes, or maybe it's something like what 63 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: you experience. Any thoughts on that. 64 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: I like to think that every judge does their duty 65 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: and that no judge is acting because they're afraid of 66 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: what may happen as a result of a decision. I 67 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 2: think that what we see here is a general breakdown 68 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 2: in the respect for the law in society, and I 69 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: see this every day in my courtroom. The way people dress, 70 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: you see, you know, women wearing yoga pants, you see 71 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 2: men wearing T shirts, jeans. It's not like it was 72 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: thirty years ago when I began practicing law. The way 73 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: people talk to the court, you know, it's people have 74 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: gum in their mouth, people are yeah, it's instead of yes. 75 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: It's a real lack of respect. And when I was 76 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 2: a defense attorney, I first began telling people, well, you're 77 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: going to go to court, dress like you're going to 78 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: go to church. But then I realized the people don't 79 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: go to church. And then I'd say, dress like you're 80 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: going to go to a job interview. Then I started 81 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: to realize they don't go to job interviews either. A 82 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: lot of the problems that I see are people who 83 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: just don't know how to adult. They don't know how 84 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: to shot, go up on tom they don't know how 85 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: to dress, and they don't know how to talk because 86 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: they've never been told how to do those things because 87 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: our society is breaking down. 88 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: Wow, that's a whole lot to swallow. We're going to 89 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: break down a little bit and see if we can 90 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: figure out some of the reasons why that might be 91 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: break down to the family structure. Perhaps that's my first reaction. 92 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: Hold On seven thirty seven fifty five KC the Talk stations, 93 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: we get a word and Thomas with Judge Christopher McDowell. 94 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: Haim uncanny common please judge, he sees all kinds of 95 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: cases and most recently was threatened by one of the 96 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: defendants in his courtroom. Actually he was more his family 97 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: had been threatened, but that since chills down my spine. 98 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: My friend, you know, I've commented before, I'm sure there's 99 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: a lot of haters of Brian Thomas out in the world. 100 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: I've only received a couple of what I consider quasi 101 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: credible threats, but I never go on social media to 102 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: read anything about what anybody's saying. I'm sure there may 103 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: be more than out there that I know of. If 104 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: I don't see him, they don't bother me. You don't 105 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: have that ability in your courtroom. You're there face to 106 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: face with the defendant and the surrounding family members and friends, 107 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: which I understand is maybe a bigger part of the 108 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: problem in your courtroom. 109 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: Oh yes, it's the people in the gallery often present 110 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: the biggest problem because there can be sometimes fifteen, twenty 111 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: or more family members, and you know, I have security 112 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 2: in the courtroom, but I don't. You know, if they 113 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: want to bum rush me, it's a real problem. But 114 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: gaining control of the courtroom can be very problematic when 115 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 2: things don't go the way the family wants them to go. 116 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: So I try to make it very clear that I'm 117 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: not going to put up with any outburst, any hysteria. 118 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: I kick people out of the courtroom quite frequently, tell 119 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: them to go out in the hall, leave the courthouse 120 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: if they can't behave It's not uncommon. 121 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: Well, someone once told me it's not the death threats 122 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: or the threats that are you read or hear that 123 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: are the real problem. It's the ones you don't hear 124 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: that are the problem. The most likely to actually engage 125 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: in some sort of active violence toward any person for 126 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: whatever reason. Then we'll talk about it out loud ahead. 127 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: Of time, right, I mean, it's it's not just me 128 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: that is the subject of this it's judges now more 129 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: and more common throughout the United States, judges that are 130 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: being threatened because it is this breakdown of a respect 131 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 2: for the law that we see in this country. I'll 132 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 2: tell you that the place that I feel safest is 133 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: actually in my courtroom. I have deputies in the courtroom, 134 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 2: and they are very highly trained. They are professional. They 135 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: really do a fantastic job of bringing these inmates in 136 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: and out of my courtroom. If I need extra security, 137 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 2: I will tell my bailiff, you know, get somebody up 138 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 2: here right away. Somebody will be there in just minutes 139 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 2: or seconds. And so I feel very secure in the courtroom. 140 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: You have to go through a metal detector to get 141 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: into the building and all that. So I feel secure 142 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: in the courtroom. I got to tell you, it's really 143 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: leaving my house in the morning, going. 144 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: To the car is exactly what I was going to 145 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: ask you about, because you can feel safe with all 146 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 1: that scurity you have in the courtroom. But you mentioned 147 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: the threat was against your family. Your family doesn't enjoy 148 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: that level of protection, at least I presume not. And 149 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm not going to break down how much is protection 150 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: or security you've got in your own personal home. But 151 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: therein lies the challenge. JD Vance's vice president JD Vance's 152 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: home got vandalized by a kid who was able to 153 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: walk up the driveway well on a police on an 154 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: unmarked a security car and then start hammering on the 155 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: windows while the Secret Service agent he's yelling at him. 156 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you'd think they beat like the military in 157 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: terms of security going on there, the vice president, and 158 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: that was able to happen. You can't buy one hundred 159 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: percent security anytime. 160 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: No, you can't, you can't at all. The Hamilton County 161 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: Sheriff's Office did volunteer and I did accept to come 162 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: out to my house and do an assessment of my 163 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: house if if there was a threat that was you know, imminent, 164 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: they would come and they would sit in front of 165 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: my house in the squad car if I wanted that. 166 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 2: But again, you can't live that way. You can't live 167 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: your life that way. And justice cannot be thwarted because 168 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: of this. If we allow terrorists to sort of win, 169 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 2: if we cave to them, then you just get more 170 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: of it. And so we have to be brave and 171 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: we have to stand up. 172 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: Excellent point. It's going to ask you about that. I 173 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: think maybe the reason for this increase in threats to 174 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: the likes of judges and others politicians. 175 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 2: I imagine a part of this as well. 176 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: Is because quite often those threats bear fruit and they 177 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: ultimately can get their way. They'll either get lenient justice, 178 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: they will be found not guilty, even if they're deserving 179 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: a guilt, although that will be a bench trial, not 180 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: a jury trial. But they see people rioting in the streets, 181 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: like Black Lives Matter goes out and says all police 182 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: are evil, and big corporations start writing them checks. That's 183 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: a sign of victory for those who make those types 184 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: of threats. 185 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean you see them protesting out in front 186 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: of Supreme Court justices homes, indeed, and so basically they're 187 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: trying to get their way through the threat and intimidation, 188 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 2: and justice cannot work that way. Justice has to be blond, 189 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: and it can't be done because I'm afraid of somebody, 190 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: or I'm afraid of the consequences of what is the 191 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 2: correct decision. And sometimes the correct decision is people need 192 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: to go to prison. Sometimes it's they need treatment. But 193 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 2: every case is its own individual. 194 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: Case, and that's what a good judge does. Each case 195 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: is different. It's evaluated differently. The circumstances are weighed, the 196 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 1: under given the who the defendant is, and what the 197 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: circumstances are in front of the court that day, the 198 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: facts underlying the crime that's been committed. But it takes 199 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: responsible men like you to make sure that the system 200 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: still works and to the extent these threats have any 201 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: impact on any judge, this is I mean, I can't 202 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: see anything, anything at all but bad coming out of this. 203 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: We got to stand up to it. Let's see, we 204 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: can't figure out how we go about doing that. One 205 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: more with Common Police Judge Christopher McDowell got to take 206 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 1: quick break here at seven forty seven to fifty five 207 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: KERCIT talk station and it's strongly encourage you to get 208 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: in touch with Zimmer Heating and Cooling, the best station 209 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: if you have a per CD talk station, Bright Towns 210 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: with Judge Christopher mcdowan studio talking about the well, the 211 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: trials and tribulations of being a judge in this hot headed, 212 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: angry world we live in, and of course societal deterioration, 213 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: as he pointed out people coming in in sweatpants. I mean, 214 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: you know, I practice law. You had to wear a 215 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: suit and tie, and you had to wear a suit 216 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: and tie, and your clients were always responsible for, you know, 217 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: looking good. It was for their own benefit. Me. 218 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 2: You go in, you have a nice appearance. 219 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: The judge is probably gonna look at more favorably on 220 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: you than if you've got what would you see, we say, 221 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: in a scarfaced T shirt on one drug defendant in 222 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: your courtroom? Oh yeah, Oh that makes sense speaking of drugs, 223 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: since we were talking off air about it, and I'm 224 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: not sure that you and I can come up with 225 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: a quick solution for what ails society along those lines, 226 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: but suffice it to say, it's crept into your courtroom. 227 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: You have been threatened, and your family has been threatened 228 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: with physical violence, death. Even I like to think since 229 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: you sentenced that man to prison in spite of the threats, 230 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: nothing followed up. Did you hear any follow up threats? 231 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: Or because you sentenced me, you are going to get 232 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: it now that kind of thing, or did it just 233 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: go to go away? 234 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: The deputy sheriffs took care of the matter. He was 235 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: in room A. He was arraigned. Judge Josh Burkowitz gave 236 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 2: him a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars bond. 237 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: He's a good guy. 238 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 2: Judge Burkowitz is a fantastic man. I know, I know. 239 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: It's a huge loss to the judiciary. 240 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: It was a tragic loss. And of course, if he 241 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: was in front of Judge Silverstein's she probably would have 242 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: let him out with no bond. Oh our bond, right 243 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: own recognizance, And they're in illustrates. Another problem is it 244 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: that they want society to deteriorate. I mean they put 245 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: the entire public at large in jeopardy when dangerous, demonstrably 246 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: violent with long record individuals are allowed out with own 247 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: recognisance bonds. 248 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: It's a matter of where your focus is. If your 249 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: focus is on protecting society, then you issue a heavy, 250 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 2: strong bond to make sure that this person does not 251 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: get out and hurt other people. If your focus is 252 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: on the individual, on the defendant, you know, what does 253 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,599 Speaker 2: this defendant need, Oh, he doesn't have a job. Is 254 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 2: he can't make the bond, so we're going to not 255 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 2: give him a cash bond. It's the focus is different. 256 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: The focus is on the defendant and what can we 257 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: do to help the defendant versus what can we do 258 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: to protect society. It's an entirely different mindset. 259 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: It really is well, and I would say the key 260 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: leg of law enforcement is the prosecution and punishment is 261 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: the deterrence to other people doing the same thing. You know, sorry, 262 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: it sucks with you. You had a bad life, but 263 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: you've violated someone's rights. You harmed them, you killed them, 264 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: you stab them, whatever the case may be, You're going 265 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: to be the illustration and the example for the rest 266 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: of the people out in the world. 267 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: To not do it. 268 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: You're going to jail. 269 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 2: That's right. And it's the same thing for people who 270 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: violate probation. If you have terms and conditions of your 271 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 2: probation and you violate those terms and conditions, there has 272 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 2: to be a consequence. I can't just continue to put 273 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: you on probation again and again, sends you back into 274 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: the community. At some point we have to say you're 275 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: not amenable to probation. And so what we need to 276 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 2: do is separate you from society. To protect society from 277 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: people who are violent and who are not going to 278 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: change their ways. People who just want to do drugs, 279 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: want to harm people. 280 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: Well, real quick here, since we're almost out a time, 281 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: Judge McDowell, I guess everything old is new again. Off 282 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: the air, you said that has been a huge increase 283 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: in powder cocaine cases. It's like nineteen eighties again, it 284 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: is nineteen eighty eight in my courtroom. 285 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: What is old is new? I have seen a tremendous 286 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 2: increase in powder cocaine. At first I thought it was 287 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: an anomaly. Now I'd say almost every day I see cocaine, 288 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: and I also have to ask is this powder cocaine 289 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 2: or crack cocaine? And I'm also seeing a slight increase 290 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: too and crack cocaine. 291 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: That was the way of in the eighties. It started 292 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: with powder, it turned into crack and it was all 293 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: the rage, and here we are back again. You would 294 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: think that the presence of fentanyl in literally every street 295 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: drug out there would prevent people from going out and 296 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: buying street drugs because oh, that's right, you're going to die. 297 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. You would think. What's really scary is college students. Yeah, 298 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 2: college students who think they're taking an adderall or a 299 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 2: xanax or something and they go into their dorm room 300 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 2: and they never wake up again. Such a tragedy because 301 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: it's laced with fentanyl. 302 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: Well, hopefully that the Trump policies on the border and 303 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: the efforts to eliminate drugs coming into our country will 304 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: bear fruit. But I think we have no one to 305 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: blame about ourselves for our drug consumption. In large part, 306 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: there's always the demand there and there's always someone willing 307 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: to fill it. Judge McDowell, a great time having in 308 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: the studio. Real pleasure for that. I'm for you to 309 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: come in. Always enjoy talking face to face with folks, 310 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: and I appreciate you standing up for the justice system 311 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: and being the illustration of the type of judge we 312 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: need these days so desperately. And keep up the great work. 313 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: You always got a former venue here to talk about 314 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: what's going on in the court system. I appreciate you 315 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: coming back. 316 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. 317 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: Happy New Year to you. Seven fifty seven. Right now 318 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: inside scoop a bright Barton News Caleb Caruz. I haven't 319 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: talked with him, but he is a former Venezuelan native 320 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: fled to the country.