WEBVTT - 4-1-26 Sloan with Ken Kober 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.440 Do you want to be an a Manican idiot? Plenty 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:06.840 on seven hundred WLW. It's often said that if a 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:09.720 police officer wants to pull you over and they're looking 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:12.039 for a reason why, they'll find some. They'll find tall 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:16.680 light out, something blinking, touch the fog line, touch center line, signal, 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:18.439 to early signal too, like something on those like that, 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:19.760 if they want to they're looking to pull you over, 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.480 the pull you over? Did this just happen to Terry 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.720 Thiji in a much bigger sense? Of course? Cincinnati releasing 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:29.920 a bombshell report on the police chief in the police 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.159 chief at Limbo may have not been fired yet and 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:36.199 after six months, roughly six months, thirty two witnesses and 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.159 now a verdict that could end your career. This is 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.519 what the investigation found. This is what an attorney called 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.360 a shameful hatchet job. The information is out and some 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:46.919 of the highlights we'll get into with Ken Kober, fopre 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.760 president on the show on seven hundred WLW. Safe to 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:52.600 say Ken that there's not much love lost here. I 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.720 know the rank and found not big fans of Terry Thiji, 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.959 but everyone hates their boss in America pretty much, don't. 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.320 They Yeah, for the most part, that's true. And your 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.000 chiefs are no exception. You have half the rank and 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.160 file will love the chief and the other half won't. 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.520 Let's just waste society is yeah. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.800 Yeah, So this investigation, I'm pretty thorough with Frost Brown, 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.720 Todd Gibbons did and talked to thirty two. They interviewed 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:19.960 thirty to forty two. A couple people obviously did not 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:21.240 want to go on a record. A lot of people 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.720 are nervous about this. The report concludes, Terry Thiji has 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:28.120 not been an effective leader of the department. Again, she 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:30.880 has not fired at this time. It's an ongoing personal matter. 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.120 Whatever the hell that means. Six months later, that she 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:37.080 was too old school, pretty authoritarian and rigid. Her communication 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:41.120 style like transparency, distrust. There's a strong culture of retaliation 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.399 inside a CPD, and that if she allegedly blocked city Hall, 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.040 and that would include the city manager and the assistant 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.680 city manager from communicating with her command staff directly, I 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.400 had to go through her, and this of course started 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.680 to unravel during the violent summer that we just had 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:02.840 and it became an untenable situation. Oddly enough, coincide, coinciding 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.120 with the election, and so that's the political context, that's 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.280 the facts of the matter. Here, let's jump into the 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.040 bones of this thing. The report says that she rejected 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.560 the Mayor's office of double overtime pay, citing a potential 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.520 collective bargaining violation. Basically, she said that the city wanted 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.320 double time for officers. We're going to work the hell 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:23.240 out of you. She said, Well, I want my men 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.120 and women to work the hell out of and they 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:26.880 need some time off and they should only get time 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.960 in a half as well. Did you ever consult you 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:31.000 with the FOP about that? 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.520 And was she right? No? What we did talk about 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:38.480 was the forced overtime that city Hall wanted to put 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.639 upon people, specifically to walk in areas of Vine Street 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.440 and Main Street and over the Rhine that quite honestly, 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.440 just weren't having problems. When she talks about the data, 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.240 the data did not suggest in those blocks that they 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.239 should be patrolling forced to work overtime. And that's she said, 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.280 I'm gonna I'm gonna go to the line. These cops 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.919 are overworked. I'm not going to force them to work more. 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:05.919 Well, the cops were you're rank and file, though, were 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.880 they leaning more towards Hey, I get extra money, I 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:10.799 get double time, or going hey, thank god, I can't 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.200 work these many hours I had to manage. It was 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.520 fairly divided. But what was the mindset generally speaking of 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:17.240 the rank and file. 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.239 Then for the most part, people are just burnt out 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:22.440 and they're like, listen, we're working enough as it is. 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.840 You have you have a pretty small faction of the 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.639 department that consistently works overtime. You know, with this new 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.280 generation of cops, a lot of them prefer, you know, 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.560 work life balance, and they would rather be home instead 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.800 of working. And then there's there's some that are like, yeh, 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.520 I'll work, I'll work all the time. But you can't 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.280 continue to go from that same pool of people. And 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.640 then now you're going to tell them now not only hey, 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.200 thank you for volunteering for all these hours, but now 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.560 we're going to order you to work more. And that 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:52.840 was something that a lot of officers were upset about. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.920 The report describes a strong culture of retaliation inside the force. 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:58.800 Are your members telling you the same thing? And how 0:03:58.800 --> 0:03:59.600 long has it been going on? 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.360 Well, listen, I've been here twenty six years. There's been 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.560 people that have complained about retaliation for the last twenty 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.280 six years I've been here, and you talked to retire 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.600 guys that came before me that have always complained about 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:15.080 the same thing. You know, retaliation is something that certainly 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.640 has to be proven, not just you know, suspected of. 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.880 But I would say that under her leadership it was 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:24.919 no different than any other leadership. 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:27.800 Yeah, And I mean there's cases you go back that 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:29.680 are still being said, the Pettist case and others where 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.400 it's a case of maybe discrimination, but that seems to 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:38.919 pop up often with labor relations inside police forces Cincinnati notwithstanding. 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.200 No, You're absolutely right. I mean, there's there's always been 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.839 this element of people being unsatisfied for one reason or another. 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:49.000 I mean, there's people that have that passed up for 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.680 preferred assignments that believe that they were wrong for one 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.760 reason or another. And it's it's something that unfortunately is 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.560 just part of police culture. And I think trying to 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.279 use that as an example of why, you know, she 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.080 was an effective leader is just very misguided. 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.120 Witness has told investigators who are nervous to be interviewed 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.680 they feared backlash, career consequences, et cetera. Is that a 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.280 common fear. How widespread is that with your membership. 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:16.600 I think a lot of people just want to come 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.919 to work and do their job. And in this particular case, 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.359 there were some that just refused to interview, and a 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:23.920 couple of them that I talked to you said, listen, 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.280 I'm just a po I'm here to do a job. 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.520 I don't want to get involved in city hall politics. 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:33.599 I don't I don't have anything to say. And I 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:37.719 think it was less about necessarily retaliation from the police 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.560 department as it was just I don't want to be 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:42.520 involved in this because the reality is what's going to 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.760 happen now. These names are going to be released, and 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.240 once they're released, you know, there's going to be depositions, 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.520 there's going to be personnel jackets requested, all of these things, 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.680 and it's just something that cops just don't want to 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.360 deal with it, Ken Cober. 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.799 The report says morale has improved under interim chief Henny. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.599 Is that a fact? I think if you ask the 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:07.440 cops that we're dealing with thousands of people in the 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.839 streets fighting on Thursday, they would probably tell you that 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.520 morale is still a challenge. You know, I think there 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.839 there are certainly things that Chief Henny has done that 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:21.640 has has helped to make things more positive. But you 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.520 have to understand that he's also still under our collective 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.839 barneting agreement, so there's only so much that City Hall 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.359 could do to him if he does something they don't like. 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.240 Whereas you know, Chief Biji and other permanent chiefs before 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:41.160 are constantly under the thumb of City Hall and you're 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:45.839 making those decisions. So I mean, I think it's like 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.680 anything else. If you ask after the department, if they 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.080 were satisfied the Chief Henny's here, I think they're gonna 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.680 say yeah. I think if you ask certain people they 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.920 would be yeah. Maybe maybe this isn't the greatest idea, 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.839 but that's normal. That is a completely normal scenario for 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:02.599 anybody that's in charge of the police department. 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:04.960 Ken Cober is a president of the FOP Queen City Lodge. 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.719 Joining the Scottsland Show here seven hundred WW on the 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.280 Fiji report coming out the former chief, the Chief in Limbo, 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.679 if you will, it took almost six months, Kenkober, and 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.040 it was only nine pages, and that strikes me as 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.160 I've seen reports like this where it just goes on 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.960 and on on it. It's like a it's like like 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.680 the Bible. Right, this is only nine pages. Did you 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:28.360 see anything in there that was news to you that 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:29.760 surprised you or shocked you? 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.440 Yeah, there were some things that were in there, And 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:36.360 whether they're true or not, I don't know, because obviously 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.320 I wasn't a party to it. But problems with command 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.040 staff officers and the chief, the stuff about the city 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.400 manager and the mayor and the assistant city manager, the 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:51.000 chief blocking things. I certainly questioned, if they knew that 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:56.080 she was purposely obstructing communication, why didn't they do something 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.880 about it when it happened. Why are we waiting till 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.440 now months later? And the interesting part about this entire 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:08.400 investigation that none of these interviews were recorded. They were 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.960 purposely not recorded. They were told you are not allowed 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.920 to record these interviews, and we're not going to record them. 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.120 We're simply going to take notes that, in my opinion, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.480 lacks a whole lot of transparency. I mean, you look 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:25.239 at these officers. Good to Internal Investigation Section. Interviews are recorded, 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:28.280 they go to the citizens complain authority, they're recorded. My god, 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.480 we put body cameras on cops. We have cameras in cars. 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.080 Everything these officers do are recorded, but now they want 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:39.320 them to participate in this investigation involving city hall, and 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:40.560 all of a sudden, no, no, no, we're not going 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.320 to record anything that doesn't pass the smell testomy. 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.839 Is that more about the retaliation fear that that very 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.520 fewer people I guess would testify if that were the case, 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:52.960 and said, hey, listen, I'll talk to you, but you 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.760 write it down. I don't want my voice recorded. Then 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.480 that can get leaked out. And now we have audio evidence. 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.360 No, this was up the request of Frost Brown and talk. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.000 Actually it wasn't even a request. It was a demand 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.439 that you not recorded and that they're not going to 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.480 record it. And here's the thing. All of this is 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.599 going to come out eventually anyway, because everybody's going to 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.640 be deposed. I mean, assuming that the chief fire or yo, 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.640 she ends up getting fired, she sues the city, all 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:22.760 of these people that interviewed are going to be subject 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.400 to deposition. So it's all going to come out anyway. Now, 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.480 everything in this report was witnesses said, Witnesses said, witnesses said, 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:31.600 and there's really going to be no proof of what 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.360 they said other than notes that someone supposedly. 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:38.319 Took uh Fiji herself. Obviously, it said the thing's a 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.160 lightning rod for her as well, and all the trouble 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.480 gets thrown at her feet because it's an easy excuse. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.600 You know, wind blows off lids off a garbage cans, Well, 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:48.560 it's her fault. We can blame it. It happened on her watch, 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:50.280 even though she had no hand in that. That's part 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:52.840 of this thing. Her attorney, the very capable Stephen m 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:54.960 called us Sing a hatchet job. Do you agree with that? 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:57.480 We knew it was going to be from the beginning. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.520 You put somebody on administrative lea two weeks before an election, 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.240 and then it takes you six months to figure out 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.360 whether somebody was effective or not, you know, as somebody 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.120 who is throughout their career, if they if she had 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:12.880 all these problems to city Hall, why wasn't anything documented 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.000 before this? It just doesn't make any sense. We we 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.000 all know why this occurred. You know, this was this 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:24.880 was a political blunder yet again by the city and 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.000 it's well, we'll see how this ends up in court, 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.880 but I would suspect that she's probably going to do 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:31.880 pretty well for herself. 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:33.640 Well, I would say, if it's a blunder, it worked 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:35.760 out pretty well for him because of aftab On down 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:37.120 All got reelected. 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.439 Well, I think that was that was a foregone conclusion. 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.839 If if they would have kept her, I think the 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.880 election would have been the exact same way. But I 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.560 think someone over at City Hall got nervous and thought 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:53.440 that maybe this would help re elections. But the reality is, 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.560 I don't think it had any impact one way or another. 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.200 You think our expectations because we were pretty so much 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.520 seed eidehim on most things. Ken cober Uh President the 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:04.880 FOP that that we're out of touch with what the 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:07.480 citizens want. Because if all this is going on and 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.200 they just re elect the same people they had before that, 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.640 that and and by pretty wide margins too, that tells 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.960 me this is what the residents want. Are we are you? 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:18.679 Are you fighting? Are you trying to push a boulder 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:19.040 up hill? 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.120 Well, I mean, it's funny that this is what the 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.480 citizens want. Yet when they just did this survey and 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.560 they talked about how safety has to be prioritized, they're 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.120 afraid to be in their own neighborhood, But yet they've 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.839 they've voted in the exact same people. So clearly this 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.719 is what they want, and at this point I think 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:39.560 we need to just sit back and go. If this 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.800 is what they want, this is what they get. You know, 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.240 the old adage of you get you get the government 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.360 that you deserve and that you elect is absolutely true. 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.800 And clearly they're okay with the things are going on 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:53.880 in this city. So you know, at this point, you 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:55.120 give the voters what they want. 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:57.760 Ken Kober, you'r rank and file. They get scrutinized all 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.439 the time, your your pos and and op the fin 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.320 Did it surprise you or is it pretty commonplace that 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.080 all of these bad things came about Fiji is the 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.480 reason why they suspended her and ultimate problem of fire 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.280 and cut her a big check. It's performance based. She 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.080 hadn't had a review, a performance review in seven years, 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:15.960 and yet they threw this out there like she's supposed 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:17.720 to know. She'd never been corrected on any of this. 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:18.440 Is that common? 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.360 Well, listen, here's the always been the problem with the city. 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.640 And everybody wants to blame the FOP for defending its members. 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.400 You know, when they get suspended, when they get terminated, 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.120 and all of a sudden these suspensions go away. People 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.960 get reinstated for their jobs and they're terminated. And it's 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:40.520 all because the city historically has done a terrible job 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.959 documenting things with people that they say are problems, and 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.240 this is no different. You have somebody that has spent 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:51.640 thirty five years here, Absolutely nothing has been documented. There's 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.160 never been anything saying, hey, you need to do a 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.960 better job, not a performance evaluation. How can you improve 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.360 on your performance if you're not told the things that 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:02.600 you need to improve upon. 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.360 And I think that also gets back to the witness. 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.520 They don't want a paper trail, they don't want evidence 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:14.439 people testifying. It's you know, if if there's no permanent 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.600 record of this, whether it's a performance evaluation or you 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:19.840 could always move the line right, you can, you could 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.080 take that information and tweak it and use it to 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.160 see how you fit. It's manipulative, is what it is. 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.559 Absolutely. And that's where I said the lack of transparency 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:33.079 in this investigation, it's just it's it's staggering. Now, whether 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.760 those were the rules of engagement for Frost Brown Todd, 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.440 which very well I would suspect would be the case, 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.040 because as far as I know, they're a very very 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.160 reputable law firm. But then again, I also understand that 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.240 you know, you're hired by a client and they say, hey, 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:48.880 this is how you want they this is how we 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.600 want you to do this, these your marching orders, this 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.319 is what you do. Completely understand that it's just the 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:58.360 entire thing just lacks transparency, and that that I think 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.800 is ultimately where I think the city is going to 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.440 be most vulnerable when you get into any kind of litigation. 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.560 The reason why lawyers are called counselors is they counsel 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.120 They can't actually force you to do something You're to 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.480 hit their consultants basically, So if the marching orders are, hey, 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.480 we don't want any recordings of witnesses, and this is 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:20.440 why we want the investigation to go, that's the context 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.720 in which your employer, in this case, the City of Cincinnati, 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.440 sets forth to the law firm. The report also says 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.720 that Terry Thigi block City Hall from communicating directly with 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.080 the assistant chiefs and the command staff. Did you at 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.760 the FOP Ken cob ever raised concerns over that chain 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:34.680 of command break down. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.080 I'd never heard that. You know, Like I said, I'm 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.920 in a little bit different position just because yeah, I'm 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.560 an FOP leader, but I'm not in the command staff. 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.160 I mean, I'm sure there's certain things that had been 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.600 kept for me on purpose, and I get it. That's 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:54.000 kind of the relationship between union leaders and you know, 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.840 leaders from the police departments, so that that wouldn't I mean, 0:14:57.920 --> 0:14:59.920 as far as me being left out, it doesn't surprise 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.120 a bit. I mean, I fully expected. But if that's 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.160 something that city Hall knew was going on, then they 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:07.680 never addressed it. That's on there. 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.840 Multiple witnesses described the nepotism favoritism in that as a 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.440 huge problem inside CPD. Then even pre Day's Terry Fija, 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.680 I think that said that report. Is that a fair characterization. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:21.720 I think it's gone on forever. 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:23.760 I know the example that was used was her nephew, 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.600 who's the lieutenant our department. He was the only one. 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:29.920 They made him the legal liaison after he went to 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.600 law school, passed the bar. He was the only one 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.080 at the time that I'm aware of that had a 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.760 law degree. It made complete sense to put him in 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.400 that position. So I guess that's what they're going to 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.000 try to use and say that this was favoritism and nepotism. 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.880 But you know, there's been accusations of that for as 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:51.320 long as I've been there, certainly long before I was there, 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.840 and I'm sure it's going to be at least accused 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:55.520 of long after I'm gone. 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.320 In the meantime, we have a community activist in Iris 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:00.480 Rawley who is not a big fan of what you 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.480 guys do for a living, and the opposite is true 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.920 whose son works for her, and yet there's no cris 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:07.720 of nepotism there. 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.840 M kind of interesting, isn't it, ken Kober? 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:14.800 What do you see? What do you see shaken out 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:15.040 from this? 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:15.440 All? Right? 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.800 So they got to you can find anything on anybody, right, 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.720 I mean if you if Frost they hired Fraud, if 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.960 the Vatican hired Frost, Brown Todd Gibbons to investigate the Pope, 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.160 you think he was dirty as hell, because you're there 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.000 going to find dirt on you. I mentioned the pretext 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:28.800 of a stop for example, you want to pull a 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.400 subject over, you know you can find something that they're 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.720 doing driving in a car in order to initiate that stop. 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.280 That the same is true here. What do you think 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.320 comes of all this? They just wind up settling and 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.280 we're talking millions and millions of dollars here for Chief Thiji. 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.320 Yeah, I mean it's hard to say. I mean, I 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.000 don't think there's a scenario where she comes back, and 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.480 I certainly I don't blame her. I don't know how 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.000 you would be able to come back and work in 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.640 this kind of environment, knowing that that the things that 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.840 have been done to you over the last six months. 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:02.520 I think it's likely the city is going to end 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:06.040 up terminating or be followed by a lawsuit in three 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:08.320 years from now, you know, we'll be sitting here talking 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.000 about what the results of this lawsuit are. 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:11.600 Yeah, And then the people who cut the check or 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:13.360 council people go well, I wasn't here. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:13.760 You know. 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.879 The favorite thing is well, I was elected, then, I 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.359 was on council, then I wasn't mayor then, and you 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.959 know you have got cover and so it goes. But overall, 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:23.760 the what effect does this have on the rank and 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.600 file officers you represent, the FOP, Cancobra And what about 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:29.280 Chief Henny. I mean, he's got to be looking over 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:29.800 his shoulder too. 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.440 I would think, well, yeah, I think that whatever decision 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.280 they make, right, wrong or indifferent, it needs to be 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.400 made the men and women of this police department. They 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.840 deserve to know who's going to be in charge of 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:43.359 this police department going into summer. We know it's going 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.359 to be a long, hot summer. We know that things 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.360 like Opening Day are likely going to occur again. We're 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.159 going to be seeing protests almost every weekend as the 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.240 weather warms up. They have a right to know who's 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.000 going to be in charge. Just like Chief Henny, he 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.480 should be knowing whether or not he's going to be here, 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.800 he's not going to be here. Those are decisions that 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.439 need to be made immediate. Like I said, what regardless 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.520 of what those decisions are, it's owed to these men 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:10.240 and women of who's going to be in charge of 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:10.600 this place. 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.240 I will say in final final point here, they're throwing 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.439 the crime problem with Terry Thigi. She mishandled everything, and 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.639 we had the violence, the brawl downtown, we had Fountain 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.600 Square and others. But ever since she has been quote 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.320 unquote terminated for the last six months, it's not like 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.919 we've not had We've seen crime go down and violent 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.800 crime as a result, whether it's three takeovers, mass shootings 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.320 and the like. Pretty much this is what we wind 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.080 up get. The Opening Day stampede, if you'll call it that. 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.879 And this shows me it's not a problem of the chief, 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.639 it's the culture and the climate. I know for a 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:48.080 fact that you know, the city didn't want to like 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.560 the idea that Fiji was attacking judges and saying they 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.000 got to do a better job, or when she's out 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.080 there being Chief Mema talking about how kids need to 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:58.560 be held responsible by their parents. City didn't want any 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.320 part of that, which is shocking because that's where it starts. 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.639 Without a doubt, and as long as we have this 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.000 lack of accountability, this is going to continue. It doesn't 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:11.280 matter who you make the chief, it doesn't matter any 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.119 of this, It doesn't matter who's in leadership. Until the 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:18.000 court system decides to hold people accountable for their actions, 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.280 we're going to see this and it's likely going to 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:21.720 get worse before it gets better. 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.359 He's Ken Cober, President of the Queen City Lodge of 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.639