Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American?
Speaker 2: Scott some show on seven hundred ww welcome, we have
Speaker 2: a new high.
Speaker 3: The average cost or a new vehicle off the lot,
Speaker 3: drive it off the lot is now over fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: Let that percolate for a minute in your head. New
Speaker 3: cars have never cost more, the loans to buy them
Speaker 3: have never been bigger or longer, and Americans are about
Speaker 3: their breaking point right now. On This is the senior
Speaker 3: editor of Auto Trader and Kelly Bluebook, Brian Moody.
Speaker 2: Welcome, good morning, Thank you. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4: Things are expensive, but I'm going to tell you this
Speaker 4: right now, there are ways around it.
Speaker 5: It's not quite as dire.
Speaker 4: As many people who are strapped for cash would think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Americans, that comes to numbers. I'm not a
Speaker 3: numbers guy, but you know we have those milestones. Now,
Speaker 3: you hit a certain number, and you know, forty nine
Speaker 3: thousand not on other care for you. But once you
Speaker 3: hit fifty the trigger goes off.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like the price of gasoline. It gets
Speaker 3: three dollars a galon three point fifty four dollars. Those
Speaker 3: are milestone numbers. Fifty thousand is a hell of a
Speaker 3: lot for this transaction. Go wait a minute. You know
Speaker 3: I bought a car I don't know, five seven years
Speaker 3: ago and it was thirty thousand dollars. How the hell
Speaker 3: does it go up that much in just such a
Speaker 3: short period of time.
Speaker 4: Well, there's many things contributing to the high price of
Speaker 4: new cars today. One of them we have to just
Speaker 4: say at some point tariffs is going to be part
Speaker 4: of that, although maybe not as much as people would think.
Speaker 4: It's more like people are opting for more expensive cars,
Speaker 4: more people are opting for luxury brands when they buy
Speaker 4: new cars than ever before. And also the cost of
Speaker 4: electric cars has driven the averages up. In addition to that,
Speaker 4: the cost of regulation on the average car is significant.
Speaker 4: Whenever you hear more things required, more MPG required, more
Speaker 4: safety equipment required. That all requires compliance and come clients
Speaker 4: means people and cost money.
Speaker 3: We're also driving four wheeled computers too, that has to
Speaker 3: be factored in.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yes, not only does it have to be part of
Speaker 4: the car, like what's inside the car, but think of this,
Speaker 4: there has to be a repair and service mechanism behind
Speaker 4: that for many years, which includes training and includes parts,
Speaker 4: and it includes repair parts.
Speaker 5: So yeah, all that is part of it.
Speaker 4: I still say that, like, if you're looking for a
Speaker 4: new car right now and you see that number and
Speaker 4: you think, oh, that's just too much. There are many
Speaker 4: good cars, new cars with compelling features for under thirty
Speaker 4: thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: So what's driving it up?
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, just in my worldview, as I
Speaker 3: drive Brian, I look at the vehicles of the road,
Speaker 3: people are thinking, well, what's driving the average up? Is
Speaker 3: that the luxury brands. You got a Ranger over Mercedes,
Speaker 3: a BMW and Audi a luxA is okay? But I
Speaker 3: see more pickup trucks on the road than ever before,
Speaker 3: and pricing out a pickup truck down right, Ik at
Speaker 3: some of the big ones out there, You're talking seventy
Speaker 3: five thousand dollars. In my view, it's people are buying
Speaker 3: very expensive trucks and SUVs, ucons and things like that.
Speaker 4: They are, and part of that is the manufacturers trying
Speaker 4: to increase their margin, but part of it is also
Speaker 4: consumer demand. One thing that you'll see is increasingly expensive
Speaker 4: with better.
Speaker 2: Equipment trim levels of existing cars.
Speaker 4: So it used to be we had like maybe four
Speaker 4: versions the base model, which is an S, the L,
Speaker 4: the XL, and then the top one would be like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's a limited or something like that.
Speaker 5: Well, now there's three above the limited because.
Speaker 4: You have to have the big twenty two inch chrome
Speaker 4: wheels and you have to have the hand stitched leather
Speaker 4: and all that. That's profit for the automakers, but at
Speaker 4: the same time, consumers are actually saying that's what they want.
Speaker 4: That's why you see those long loans. You mentioned thousand
Speaker 4: dollars a month's payment. Listen, if you have to stretch
Speaker 4: your car payment to eighty four months, that is a
Speaker 4: good sign that you have purchased or are looking at
Speaker 4: a car that's out of your budget. You need to
Speaker 4: like rain that back in and get something like a Corolla.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 3: I mean even you know, like a Jeep Wrangler Base
Speaker 3: models you can get fright in for a round thirty,
Speaker 3: but most people don't. They opt for the off road
Speaker 3: packages even though they would never.
Speaker 2: Take it off a highway. Yeah, they're still going to
Speaker 2: get that and that's over fifty k.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and automakers have begun to realize this. I think
Speaker 4: what you're going to see is pulling back on some
Speaker 4: of that Jeep is a perfect example for they have admitted, hey,
Speaker 4: we kind of priced our core customers out of the market.
Speaker 4: So look for companies like Jeep, Ford, and Chevrolet, maybe.
Speaker 5: Honda and Tolida as well to come up with.
Speaker 4: Less equipment and a lower priced car because their cars
Speaker 4: that people know are good. And to your point, it's
Speaker 4: why the Ford Maverick, a small pickup, sold so well
Speaker 4: when it first came out because at the time there
Speaker 4: wasn't much else available for a pickup truck buyer. Now,
Speaker 4: as new option become available, I think more people will
Speaker 4: see the wisdom of getting a smaller pickup or a
Speaker 4: smaller suv and maybe not every single bell and whistle,
Speaker 4: maybe you stop midway.
Speaker 3: Brian Moody is a senior editor of Auto Trader and
Speaker 3: Kelly Bluebook. As we hit a new high here this year,
Speaker 3: the average cost of a car off the lot is
Speaker 3: now fifty thousand dollars plus. In addition to that, we
Speaker 3: have the new eighty four month car loans that account
Speaker 3: for something like one in ten of all sales. That's
Speaker 3: nearly a seven year car payment. Is that kind of
Speaker 3: a warning sign? Numbly for the economy, but the industry.
Speaker 4: That's a warning signs for the industry and for consumers.
Speaker 4: And let me just tell you this. If you're looking
Speaker 4: at a car loan and the length of the car
Speaker 4: loans outlasts the warranty, that's a big red flag because
Speaker 4: what you're headed for unless you happen to have, you know,
Speaker 4: one of the few very very reliable brands, like say
Speaker 4: you wanted a luxury brand, a European luxury brand, and
Speaker 4: your warranty expires and you're making one thousand dollars a
Speaker 4: month payment. What happens when you're in for an expensive
Speaker 4: repair that now is to you out of your pocket.
Speaker 2: That's going to be disastrous for many shoppers.
Speaker 6: I find.
Speaker 3: The experts say, the financial guys say keep your payment
Speaker 3: about fifteen percent a monthly income, but the average is
Speaker 3: in the upwards of twenty percent or more.
Speaker 2: That's pretty upside.
Speaker 4: Down right right, because people look at those loans and
Speaker 4: they say, oh, well, I technically I can do it.
Speaker 2: Right. You can have cake and ice cream.
Speaker 5: For dinner every night if you want, but there's a
Speaker 5: cost to pay down the road.
Speaker 4: And don't shop by this is what I always tell people.
Speaker 4: Don't shop only by monthly payment. I could sell you
Speaker 4: a Ferrari for five hundred dollars a month. Well, you
Speaker 4: should ask a couple of questions once I say that,
Speaker 4: how many months, how much downpayment?
Speaker 5: You know, on and on and on.
Speaker 4: So it's possible to get that super cool a luxury car,
Speaker 4: but I would just rent it back a few steps
Speaker 4: and say, hey, maybe something like a Mazda c X
Speaker 4: five could work for me instead of a full size
Speaker 4: truck based luxury suv.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But we've even seen the aftermarket cars Kelly, you know
Speaker 3: Kelly Bluebook for example. That's what you guys specialize in.
Speaker 3: That the costs are going a used car now is incredible.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, there's a really good resource that people
Speaker 4: are shopping right now. You can go to Capital One
Speaker 4: has an auto navigator channel that's very helpful. Also, car
Speaker 4: Gurus list the price increases and price decreases by percentage
Speaker 4: right there on a page for you to shop that way.
Speaker 4: And remember this, if you're looking for a new car
Speaker 4: and you want a certain piece of technology, go look
Speaker 4: at a used car and see if maybe a three
Speaker 4: year old version of that car doesn't have the same
Speaker 4: exact technology.
Speaker 2: Chances are it might.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how much of this, Brian Moody, has to do
Speaker 3: with the tariffs. How much is that driving up the
Speaker 3: cast because the other people we live in a solarized
Speaker 3: political society. People just want to point the finger and go,
Speaker 3: this is all Trump's fault. How much of it is?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's some because what's happening is the cars that
Speaker 4: are incurring the lowest tariff are the ones that are
Speaker 4: built here in the US and they source parts here
Speaker 4: in the US.
Speaker 5: And they have a bit of a discount as a result.
Speaker 4: Methanax lowered the price on some of their cars because
Speaker 4: they were built in the US. Other manufacturers where the
Speaker 4: car arrived fully complete to our shores, this would usually
Speaker 4: be very high end European luxury brands. Those are the
Speaker 4: ones that are going to incur the highest trat However,
Speaker 4: what manufacturers are doing is they're taking that three thousand
Speaker 4: dollars tariff, let's just say, and they spread it out
Speaker 4: across multiple cars so that the sticker shop to the
Speaker 4: average person is less, but you're still paying overall in
Speaker 4: terms of higher destination, to the higher interest, all those
Speaker 4: types of things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Brian Moody, here, the senior editor Auto Trader, Kelly
Speaker 3: Bluebook on the show. The average price of a car
Speaker 3: now over fifty thousand dollars off the lot. Last year
Speaker 3: we were in Australia and over there it's incredible the
Speaker 3: number of Uber drivers and Lyft drivers that opt right,
Speaker 3: all of them Chinese made EV's and I got you
Speaker 3: get in someone go wow, this is interesting Tesla or
Speaker 3: and they look at it, go, I don't know what
Speaker 3: brand this is.
Speaker 2: It must be Chinese.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And there was a story I forgot where I saw this,
Speaker 3: but it was a ceo from one of the big
Speaker 3: three companies. They were in China and we're touring the
Speaker 3: car factories there and they ceo said they were blown
Speaker 3: away on how the robots, the automation, they churn out
Speaker 3: cars insanely fast.
Speaker 2: Over there.
Speaker 3: Their supply chain is so modern and so efficient. It
Speaker 3: manufactures good quality cars and innovative new models at much
Speaker 3: much lower prices.
Speaker 2: So the competition.
Speaker 3: Between Chinese made and now now Canada's relaxed the tariffs
Speaker 3: sun Chine, so we're going to see more and more
Speaker 3: Chinese made EV's flooding North America, and eventually those cars
Speaker 3: will come down to Canada.
Speaker 2: From Canada, the United States won't.
Speaker 4: They Yes, probably American automakers and lawmakers are going to
Speaker 4: have to get a handle on that. The executive you're
Speaker 4: talking about is the guy from Ford, and you know
Speaker 4: not with the den. They have a new evy platform
Speaker 4: called you ev which is supposed to be able to
Speaker 4: house several different body styles, but is going to be
Speaker 4: an electric car that starts around thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: So yeah, those things are coming.
Speaker 4: But the reason I say lawmakers have to get involved
Speaker 4: is because not every place in the world has the
Speaker 4: same environmental laws we have, or the same labor laws
Speaker 4: or labor unions, or the same sourcing like so there's
Speaker 4: lots of things that we have to get on top
Speaker 4: of as an industry to see like, hey, do we.
Speaker 2: Want that here or not?
Speaker 4: Same with safety standards, cars cost more because there's more
Speaker 4: safety equipment. So sure, could you sell a car that
Speaker 4: doesn't have the same crash worthiness for a lower price, probably,
Speaker 4: But do we want that? Those are things that have
Speaker 4: to be decided and it's not going to be decided
Speaker 4: probably by me and you.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: My takeaway on that was you have the CEO of
Speaker 3: Ford whose jaw drops by age a state of the art,
Speaker 3: well functioning factor. I mean, isn't it sobering and scary
Speaker 3: at the same time that how did we get to
Speaker 3: the point where we have a CEO of a major
Speaker 3: auto manufacturer, one of the big three, go to our
Speaker 3: a Chinese factory and have your jaw drop because they've
Speaker 3: got robots building cars at a much cheaper I mean
Speaker 3: that that just defies logic and explanation. It also should
Speaker 3: scare the hell out of us here in America. Is
Speaker 3: you know, is it over for us?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 4: I don't think so, because remember the road American factories
Speaker 4: have playing your robots too.
Speaker 5: That's kind of a fixed cost. The thing that's not
Speaker 5: a fixed cost is.
Speaker 4: The labor I'm saying. So that's one thing that he
Speaker 4: wasn't mentioning. So it should be a wake up call
Speaker 4: for how do we run our factories, How do we
Speaker 4: run our unions?
Speaker 5: How do we source parts?
Speaker 4: Do we use the most of our locally sourced natural.
Speaker 2: Resources as we can?
Speaker 4: Or are those sitting idle because someone somewhere else said,
Speaker 4: oh that's no good, let's get it someplace elf. Those
Speaker 4: things all have to line up so that we can
Speaker 4: get the best car for the.
Speaker 5: Best price and still provide a livable wage.
Speaker 3: My old man was working in the automotive sector for
Speaker 3: a while back in the seventies and eighties, and American
Speaker 3: car manufacturers looked at as an entitlement. Going doesn't matter
Speaker 3: if we put a car together with a bumper that's
Speaker 3: crooked or the doors that fall off at rust's in
Speaker 3: three years. We don't care because you've got a lock
Speaker 3: on the world. Because this came out of the nineteen
Speaker 3: fifties when the post World War Two, when America had
Speaker 3: to build everything, rebuild a world because it was war
Speaker 3: torn or a third world.
Speaker 2: And now that's change.
Speaker 3: We saw that turn in the eighties when Japanese car
Speaker 3: manufacturers came on the scene.
Speaker 2: They changed the game.
Speaker 3: Entirely with fit and quality, quality assurance warranties, and it
Speaker 3: totally up into the American market. Are we at a
Speaker 3: similar point here now with China?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Probably, because I don't know if you remember this or not,
Speaker 4: but there was a for a while, there was kind
Speaker 4: of a thing with Japanese cars where they were considered
Speaker 4: low quality. It's hard to believe that that was a thing,
Speaker 4: but that was a thing at one point. The big
Speaker 4: thing that's happening today and everyone's to have to adapt
Speaker 4: to this is that those things are happening just like
Speaker 4: they happened in the past, only now they're happening much
Speaker 4: much faster. So yes, it's quite possible that a Chinese
Speaker 4: car in the near future will have all the features
Speaker 4: for a price, all the quality that we would expect,
Speaker 4: faster than we would have thought in the past.
Speaker 3: The entry level car back to this topic too, because
Speaker 3: you say, again it's fifty thousand the average, but you
Speaker 3: can get a car for round thirty. It's going to
Speaker 3: be a base model, but that's disappeared for American showrooms.
Speaker 3: We see the Chinese kind of it's the second Japanese
Speaker 3: wave here where they're upending the auto industry worldwide. Now
Speaker 3: we're going to have to change things and how we
Speaker 3: do things here in America to compete with them, because
Speaker 3: you know, if you're going to go back to the
Speaker 3: days where a Japanese import people to come up and
Speaker 3: hit it with a sledgehammer, remember those protests like you're
Speaker 3: not going to change and he saw it didn't work.
Speaker 3: Because Japanese automakers stowing out is still number one. You're
Speaker 3: going to probably do that with Chinese vehicles. And you know,
Speaker 3: you can yell and scream at the clouds all you want,
Speaker 3: but you've got to adapt or die. And we should
Speaker 3: know that as Americans. But yeah, the entry level cars
Speaker 3: kind of disappeared from showrooms. How do we even get
Speaker 3: to this point?
Speaker 4: I think that's going to change. So there's two levers
Speaker 4: that are that can be pulled simultaneously. There's what the
Speaker 4: manufacturer offers, So that's the S model, the base the
Speaker 4: one that's thirty four to five that doesn't have, you know,
Speaker 4: some of the fancy stuff inside. The manufacturer offers that,
Speaker 4: but if the dealer doesn't stock it, it essentially doesn't exist.
Speaker 4: So the dealers have to be okay with knowing, Hey,
Speaker 4: if I order five of these base models with cloth
Speaker 4: seats or whatever it is, will I be able to
Speaker 4: sell them? And I think once we see that there's
Speaker 4: a market for those base model cars, they'll start to
Speaker 4: come back, even to the point where automakers will start
Speaker 4: to build more of them. But remember they're in the
Speaker 4: supply and demand game. If there's no demand, they're not
Speaker 4: going to make a supply just for fun. So it's
Speaker 4: up to dealers and consumers to write size their expectations.
Speaker 5: And the loans are part of it too.
Speaker 4: I don't know why someone would get a seventy two
Speaker 4: month or eighty four month loan. I think it's financially irresponsible.
Speaker 4: But for some reason, cars are more of an emotional
Speaker 4: purchase than say a refrigerator.
Speaker 6: Or a Parish Well shoes.
Speaker 4: People do the same thing, but it's more of an
Speaker 4: emotional purchase, so people have to get okay with Yeah,
Speaker 4: this happens to me a lot. People ask how do
Speaker 4: I get a great deal? Well, you get a hatchback,
Speaker 4: or you get a sedan they have, you know, lower
Speaker 4: prices on the whole, and you get this kind of
Speaker 4: a car, you get a hybrid, And the next thing
Speaker 4: they say is, oh, yeah, I was thinking to get it.
Speaker 5: Than d Nali.
Speaker 4: No, there's no deals on those because that's what everybody wants.
Speaker 4: So what everybody wants less deals, what fewer people are
Speaker 4: getting nice to dan good hatchbacks often more of a
Speaker 4: chance for a deal on those.
Speaker 3: Yeah makes sense, And but again, you know, you go
Speaker 3: to a showroom Brian, people are like, well, I want cloths, seats,
Speaker 3: I don't want to I don't a manual, and I
Speaker 3: want air conditioning. I want a sound system that sounds
Speaker 3: really good. Rreat, but you're going to spend an extra
Speaker 3: ten grand plus because those are all add ons.
Speaker 4: Because they're in packages. So here's something to just kind
Speaker 4: of adjust your mind to the average shopper today. If
Speaker 4: you go by a new car and you're looking at
Speaker 4: there's a base model. Let's say that you saw online
Speaker 4: and you did research and saw that was the right
Speaker 4: price for you. Today's car is always going to have
Speaker 4: air conditioning, power windows, probably a screen of some kind.
Speaker 4: What the little things are going to be and figure
Speaker 4: out how you can live without. This would be bigger wheels, sunroof,
Speaker 4: a larger touch screen. Those are the things that are
Speaker 4: going to be optional today. All they're all going to
Speaker 4: have automatic transmissions, they're all going to have air conditioning,
Speaker 4: they're all going to have power windows. It's a matter
Speaker 4: of oh, do I get the seats that have memory power?
Speaker 4: Do I get the one touch that It's down to
Speaker 4: that little thing. So if you can live without some
Speaker 4: of those things, the base model could work for you
Speaker 4: on many cars. Prius is a great example of a
Speaker 4: good car that isn't super expensive and gets great gas mileage.
Speaker 3: We're not going to go back to a point where
Speaker 3: you know, you can get a model T where it's
Speaker 3: the same vehicle and you can have any color you
Speaker 3: want as long as it's black. We're not headed back
Speaker 3: that way, are we.
Speaker 4: There may be an automaker that would come up with
Speaker 4: an idea to have like what I lovingly called the
Speaker 4: Luddye Special, where it doesn't have any features or any
Speaker 4: of that kind of stuff. I could see that may
Speaker 4: be working, But as far as it being a mainstream.
Speaker 5: Automaker, you have to think of it this way. Today,
Speaker 5: in order to give a.
Speaker 2: Car manual windows or manual.
Speaker 4: Transmission or whatever, it almost costs them more because deviations
Speaker 4: from the production line cost time, and time equals money.
Speaker 4: So that's why every car has almost the same equipment.
Speaker 4: Now it's down to what color, what wheels, what sum room.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're always going to have You're always going to
Speaker 3: have automatic when it's probably air conditioning, things like that.
Speaker 3: Brian Moone, Senior Editor, Auto Trader. In Kelly Bluebook, the
Speaker 3: average cost of a new car has now crossed the
Speaker 3: fifty thousand dollar mark, and that is an eye opener
Speaker 3: for sure. Thanks for jumping on this morning. I appreciate it. Yep, yeah,
Speaker 3: thank you, take care. Fifty grand. Let's talk about it.
Speaker 3: How much do you got in your car? You've bought
Speaker 3: in a car in the last couple of years, or
Speaker 3: maybe you know you have a car that's seven eight
Speaker 3: years old and you're like, ah, I'm gonna go and
Speaker 3: look at a new one, and then you maybe you
Speaker 3: get to say, I like the car, just wanted a
Speaker 3: newer model. How much sticker shock hit you here locally
Speaker 3: five and three, seven four nine, seven thousand eight or
Speaker 3: the big one talk back via the iHeartRadio Apple get
Speaker 3: into that right after news update Scott's Loan Show on
Speaker 3: seven hundred WW. It's PLNY seven hundred WLW talking to
Speaker 3: Brian Moody minutes ago. Here executive director Kelly Bluebook and
Speaker 3: autotrader dot com the average price of a car now
Speaker 3: off the lot, not the MSRP, but actually driving off
Speaker 3: the lot now over fifty thousand dollars fifty grand for
Speaker 3: new car, which begs a question here maybe we're shopping
Speaker 3: and went, wait how much because just I mean, the
Speaker 3: price have gone up like forty in the last handful
Speaker 3: of years, which is absolutely bonkers, right, just just absolutely crazy,
Speaker 3: And you know if you out shopping and you had
Speaker 3: that sticker shock going, do you just pull the trigger
Speaker 3: and go, oh, I need it because it's a business
Speaker 3: car where maybe money is somewhat of an object but
Speaker 3: no object in that regard. Or he's just like, hey,
Speaker 3: you know what, I'll get a few more miles out
Speaker 3: of the beater that I have now and move on.
Speaker 3: Danny just emailed me here Sloany at seven hundred ww
Speaker 3: dot com. My wife and I watched the movie Risky
Speaker 3: Business the other night. At a chuckle on, Tom Cruise
Speaker 3: was out in his dad's portion. Someone sneers him and goes, oh,
Speaker 3: daddy's out in the forty thousand dollars car forty gray
Speaker 3: was a lot of money back in the day, man,
Speaker 3: a lot of money. What are the most expensive cars
Speaker 3: in the world? That In just a second, and Bob
Speaker 3: and is on the show this morning, Bob, how you
Speaker 3: doing all great?
Speaker 8: Uh uh, that's ann it's kind of cold out there,
Speaker 8: Yeah it is.
Speaker 3: It'll warm up then get cold and snow again. So yeah,
Speaker 3: we've got the whips up. Tell me about card you
Speaker 3: go buy a car?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'd say about a car for the wife. A
Speaker 8: couple of years ago, and then my own last year.
Speaker 8: On the bright side, if you don't need all the
Speaker 8: bells and whistles and computer assists, which older folks don't
Speaker 8: understand anyway. Yeah, uh, I got buy for thirty. I
Speaker 8: thought I worked pretty good deal, and at last minute
Speaker 8: they sticking it old. There is a five hundred dollars
Speaker 8: documentation fee. Sure, but then I've been beating down over
Speaker 8: two or three hour period, which that's that's the game.
Speaker 8: I said, okay, whatever, yes, actually what twenty bucks a month?
Speaker 8: So I'm not going to screw the deal in that.
Speaker 8: But uh, you know, if you if your fortune, have
Speaker 8: to work a good deal where you know they're going
Speaker 8: to make the marginal profit. They don't pay their bills
Speaker 8: by giving stuff away, correct, They like to stick a
Speaker 8: little something andy here, these are five hundred bucks. Yeah,
Speaker 8: the boss boss's kid wants ago a summer.
Speaker 2: Here, ture transfer.
Speaker 3: That's like transportation, and that's just like when you get
Speaker 3: tires right now, they charge you for shriding the tires.
Speaker 2: Now it's disposal.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, yeah, at the disposal for you gets to
Speaker 8: the Uh. On the couple of years back, a nice
Speaker 8: car from one of your advertisers for the wife and
Speaker 8: that was over fifty then. But on the bright side,
Speaker 8: they called a couple years later and said, hey, you
Speaker 8: bought a car for of us sudden such I said,
Speaker 8: we'll buy it back for what you paid. But we've
Speaker 8: been using it yet, we know that.
Speaker 2: That's pretty good. I mean, you think about that. You
Speaker 2: buy the car, and if they're going to give you
Speaker 2: what you paid for it, that's a hol of a deal.
Speaker 8: Accept And if you want something similar, you know you're
Speaker 8: gonna have.
Speaker 2: To give them a little bit.
Speaker 8: But uh yeah, oh yeah, uh the used cars were
Speaker 8: in such demand back then. Uh price for skyhig I
Speaker 8: think nowadays two you see prices like a very non
Speaker 8: descript ten year old car.
Speaker 2: That's what really catched my eye.
Speaker 5: East fifteen and twenty hous about.
Speaker 3: Oh that's no question my daughter's looking for one. It's like,
Speaker 3: how much wow that is because you know, you get
Speaker 3: a car for a kid or something like that, it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, five six grand and now you know it's
Speaker 3: going to be closer to to ten thousand dollars thanks
Speaker 3: to the call appreciated five one, three, seven, four nine
Speaker 3: seven thousand new price of a comprice of my new
Speaker 3: car off the lot all in not MSRP fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: This might make you feel better. The five most expensive
Speaker 3: cars right now in the world. So this is the
Speaker 3: This is okay, this is like oil money. This is
Speaker 3: chic money, this is this is ai this is crypto money.
Speaker 3: A Rolls Royce LeRose Noir droptail. Now keep in mind
Speaker 3: there's only four built. There's only four, and each is
Speaker 3: a one to one commission. It has over sixteen hundred
Speaker 3: hand placed wood pieces and a color shifting finish.
Speaker 2: How much how much?
Speaker 3: Thirty two million dollars for one car? Number two is
Speaker 3: a Rolls Royce boat tail that's twenty eight million, though
Speaker 3: they built three of those. It has a rear deck
Speaker 3: that unfolds to look like a luxury yacht, cocktail tables,
Speaker 3: and a champagne refrigerator. You know you got some serious
Speaker 3: fu money when you could buy a car that has
Speaker 3: a champagne refrigerator and a cocktail you're drink into the
Speaker 3: I've got a bar in the back of my car.
Speaker 2: How's that?
Speaker 3: Pegani Zonda HB Barchetta is seventeen and a half million
Speaker 3: dollars to built three of those. A Bugatti sixteen million dollars.
Speaker 3: And the fifth is a Rolls Royce Sweptail which is
Speaker 3: thirteen million dollars, and that was part of a two
Speaker 3: seat Grand Tour that took four years. Took four years
Speaker 3: to handle this car for only thirteen million dollars, which
Speaker 3: seems like a bargain when the number one is thirty
Speaker 3: two million dollars. If you're more like me, your top
Speaker 3: five least expensive new cars in twenty twenty six, again
Speaker 3: from Brian Moody our friends at Auto Trader. Number five
Speaker 3: I was a Hondai Elantra, which is just a tick
Speaker 3: under twenty four thousand. Nissan CenTra s will layout twenty
Speaker 3: three eight forty five, the Kia K four LX is
Speaker 3: twenty three to five, Chevy Tracks twenty three five as
Speaker 3: the eight inch wireless touchscreen, thirty miles per gallon combinement.
Speaker 3: That's a that's a good work car, right, get a
Speaker 3: Chevy twenty three grand considering that's half the price of
Speaker 3: a of the MSRP or I'm sorry of the offul
Speaker 3: lot price of the average car.
Speaker 2: You're getting a good deal there.
Speaker 3: And number one is a Hyundai Venue two of the
Speaker 3: five two of the five Yas Hondai, Nissan, Kiya Chevy
Speaker 3: and the Venue s E. The number one is twenty
Speaker 3: two to one fifty and that is now the cheapest
Speaker 3: car after the Nissan Versas discontinued. It's a subcompact crossover
Speaker 3: and a lot of standard safety tech. Very safe car
Speaker 3: in a Hyundai, at least for twenty twenty six anyway.
Speaker 3: So twenty two to one fifty would be your number
Speaker 3: versus thirty two million dollars. I could have put the
Speaker 3: luxury you know, Mercedes, BMW, Audie, Lexus those cars in
Speaker 3: there as well, but it's more fun to go, Well,
Speaker 3: it's fifty thousand dollars for a new car off the lot,
Speaker 3: but you're talking tens of millions of dollars for new veic.
Speaker 3: It just makes me wonders, like, what kind of money
Speaker 3: you what kind of crazy indus?
Speaker 2: What do you in? What do you got going on
Speaker 2: in your life? Crypto you have like oil rigs.
Speaker 3: That's that's an insane amount and then people can afford
Speaker 3: that car also look at it go yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: it's it's a nice treat that tend to be humbled
Speaker 3: about that because the other idage is like you're driving,
Speaker 3: you're rolling around in a luxury car, you know, a
Speaker 3: nice Ranger over saw, a Porsche whatever it is. And
Speaker 3: then it's like, I've got the you know, I got
Speaker 3: a really hot car here. This is a great car,
Speaker 3: very expensive. You know, I valet park even when I
Speaker 3: go to UDF and there's always somebody out there go, well, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's a nice car. What's your I got a thirty
Speaker 3: two million dollar car? Yeah, this is such a nice car.
Speaker 3: You probably I don't even know if you drive it.
Speaker 3: When you even at thirty two million, you had the
Speaker 3: kind of money be scared to take it out of
Speaker 3: the garage. And you know, some folks buy cars and
Speaker 3: just store them, they don't really take them out. And
Speaker 3: I guess look at more of an investment down a lot.
Speaker 3: I suppose at thirty two million, I have to figure
Speaker 3: that can I take out a five thousand year loan?
Speaker 3: Because even then I don't know if I've did five thousand,
Speaker 3: five thousand year loan.
Speaker 2: I think maybe I might be able to afford that.
Speaker 2: Not sure what bank would give me a four.
Speaker 3: Thousand, four thousand alone A guy who's that kind of money,
Speaker 3: or at least he did anyway, less Westerner, you know,
Speaker 3: the name, of course, Victoria's secret founder.
Speaker 2: I think it's there. I'm gonna die in this hill.
Speaker 2: That okay.
Speaker 3: The third rail, of course, is the insanity over Epstein's island.
Speaker 3: The fact that here in the United States anyone, no
Speaker 3: one is paying the price, no one is going to
Speaker 3: jail for this.
Speaker 2: It's a horrible story.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: You can't certainly take the side of someone who is
Speaker 3: doing this to young women or men, as the case
Speaker 3: may be. It's not about the vic and it's not
Speaker 3: about the crime. It's it's about I think propriety, and
Speaker 3: I again, dying the hill is a tough stand to take.
Speaker 3: So Les Wexner in Ohio State, they're debating and removing
Speaker 3: his name from all these buildings because of his associates
Speaker 3: with Epstein, and that makes him unacceptable. And they took
Speaker 3: i think in neighborhood a two hundred million dollars in
Speaker 3: money from less wex So he's got his name all everything.
Speaker 3: If if you take two hundred million dollars from someone
Speaker 3: and that turns out that they're scumbag degenerate criminal or
Speaker 3: they're financing scumbag degenerate criminals, then you've got to give
Speaker 3: him the money.
Speaker 2: Back.
Speaker 3: If the name isn't good enough to stay in the building,
Speaker 3: then the Ohistein University needs to write a check back
Speaker 3: to him and going, okay, you're out because it's interesting
Speaker 3: you they're debating and removing his name because that Epstein association,
Speaker 3: and they're making a moral judgment here because of the
Speaker 3: heat from the students and everyone else, going, you can't
Speaker 3: do it's less why it's toxic.
Speaker 2: You can't.
Speaker 3: It's poison money is what it is. This is blood money.
Speaker 3: And they're right, but okay, that's a moral judgment. And
Speaker 3: you can't simultaneously cash a check from someone you've declared
Speaker 3: mortally unfit it. Life doesn't work that way. There was
Speaker 3: a transaction here. You took his money and he wants
Speaker 3: his name on a building donors. I don't care what
Speaker 3: school you go to, Ohio State, UC Xavior or whatever.
Speaker 3: The buildings are named after people who can afford a
Speaker 3: thirty two million dollar car. But you know, if the
Speaker 3: relationship is now toxic enough to erase his name, then
Speaker 3: you have to return the money under that relationship. Will
Speaker 3: Ohio State kick back two hundred million to Les Wexner
Speaker 3: if you start taking names off buildings because most of
Speaker 3: those deals come with an agreement. So if OSU, for
Speaker 3: whatever reason breaks the naming terms, his estate or family
Speaker 3: would have legitimate legal grounds to demand repayment. Anyway, This
Speaker 3: could be a could be a case in court, and
Speaker 3: it's hard to take the side of a guy who's
Speaker 3: financing Jeffrey Epstein. But I don't know. We've seen this
Speaker 3: happen in other area. Says like, Okay, well we're going
Speaker 3: to honor this person by putting their name on a building.
Speaker 3: Well do you honor someone who then later winds up
Speaker 3: being tabed of criminal?
Speaker 2: And O. J. Simpson would be a great example of this.
Speaker 2: You know it.
Speaker 3: Should his buss be in the in Canton? Should his
Speaker 3: name be in the ring of honor at the bill Stadium?
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, okay, but he wasn't he was Civilly
Speaker 3: he lost, but criminally he was.
Speaker 2: Same thing might be happening. This could be a whole O. J.
Speaker 2: Simpson thing all over again.
Speaker 3: So you have an agreement for the naming rights and
Speaker 3: then you would have legal grounds I would guess to
Speaker 3: demand repayment unless there's something in that clause in the
Speaker 3: contract says for you under moral turpitude or or more moral. Uh,
Speaker 3: you know there's something in there moral turpitude clause. I
Speaker 3: guess it would be that would wipe that out. And
Speaker 3: it's like, well, we're going to keep your money and
Speaker 3: take your name off the building. And also it's America
Speaker 3: and he has not been convicted of anything. And I
Speaker 3: point that out, not taking his sight on this rather,
Speaker 3: but just the way the law works, and sometimes we
Speaker 3: can forget how the constitution works in this country. Hasn't
Speaker 3: been arrested, hasn't been indicted, and now we're going to
Speaker 3: take his name off and keep the money without due
Speaker 3: process and your profiting from that man. Ohio State's really
Speaker 3: setting themselves up. And then if they don't do anything,
Speaker 3: if they just well we're going to keep his name
Speaker 3: on it, the outcrying backlash against Ohio State is going
Speaker 3: to be, if not already, it's going to be incredible.
Speaker 3: How the hell do you paint? How do you this
Speaker 3: is a hell of a corner they painted themselves in.
Speaker 3: And I don't think it's anything because they were stupid
Speaker 3: about it's just who saw this coming? That less not
Speaker 3: western to be tight And we're in a state now.
Speaker 3: I pointed this out the other day you know that
Speaker 3: it's called the Life Touch, and that is the group
Speaker 3: when your kid goes to school and gets the school
Speaker 3: picture in the spring or in the fall. Rather, that's
Speaker 3: the company that does a life touch. So and I've
Speaker 3: kind I forget the seven degrees of separation here, but
Speaker 3: they have since been twice. So they started out this company,
Speaker 3: the guy who initially started it has ties to Epstein. Well,
Speaker 3: he had before this whole thing broke. He had sold
Speaker 3: it to a company that then spun it off into
Speaker 3: a bigger group and like private equity. And now parents
Speaker 3: in the states, including Kentucky, are demanding that Life Touch
Speaker 3: be taken on their kids' school and the person who
Speaker 3: is tied to Epstein is twice removed from ownership, but
Speaker 3: the company's already been sold. It's kind of like police
Speaker 3: knock on your door because a car you owned two
Speaker 3: owners ago was involved in a homicide. Yeah, you ran
Speaker 3: a bunch of people over and now.
Speaker 2: They're going to come.
Speaker 3: Well wait, I sold that car to somebody who then
Speaker 3: sold it to somebody else. We don't care, We're still
Speaker 3: coming after. You can start looking at that going. I know,
Speaker 3: we live in an age where constitutional law in the
Speaker 3: law itself is kind of like, I don't know how,
Speaker 3: it's a murky area. But with them in a time
Speaker 3: were well, that's well, I can do what I want
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 3: Really, I think there's just and especially from an institution
Speaker 3: of higher learning, it should be pretty clear cut that
Speaker 3: you've got to give them money back. If the standard
Speaker 3: for name removal is mere association with the criminal, then
Speaker 3: you've got to look at every donor in your history.
Speaker 3: I mean, how many people, how many donors have given
Speaker 3: money to Ohio State and maybe got I know, even
Speaker 3: something as lowly as a name on a brick somewhere. Man,
Speaker 3: that's going to take a lot of research and a
Speaker 3: lot of work, because once you've taken the moral high ground,
Speaker 3: it's got to apply to everything across the board. I'm
Speaker 3: sure there's somebody who is tied to Ohio State who's
Speaker 3: guilty of a crime somewhere. It's in bezzleman, a white
Speaker 3: collar crime, murder. Right, then you got to start going
Speaker 3: and you got to start clearing. And that's the problem
Speaker 3: with today, especially today's well with today's generation so to speak.
Speaker 3: Not to sound like a bitter old man, but I'm
Speaker 3: saying is like we went to this thing with cancel culture,
Speaker 3: where someone who puts something on social media when they
Speaker 3: were thirteen and now they're a grown man are being
Speaker 3: held account for what they said when they were a
Speaker 3: little kid or they were some stupid adolescent. I mean,
Speaker 3: we're all there said and did different dumb stuff. We
Speaker 3: made a dumb stuff last year. People do dumb stuff
Speaker 3: and say dumb stuff all the time that it's cringe worthy.
Speaker 3: That just doesn't hold up. And you know, something to
Speaker 3: be said about reform. Now We're not that way with
Speaker 3: Lexner here, but you know what I'm saying is how
Speaker 3: how much more do you go down this road for
Speaker 3: that level of accountability? Because now future major donors, I'd
Speaker 3: imagine you're watching this, so I Fio State says, Wow,
Speaker 3: we're going to take two hundred million, rename the buildings,
Speaker 3: and we're going to keep your money when the political
Speaker 3: wind shift. Why would enter major donor trust the public
Speaker 3: university with a naming gift again unless they start building
Speaker 3: some language into the contract. So this difficult situation for
Speaker 3: Ohio State isn't just about less Wexner. It's about whether
Speaker 3: institutional naming or inspanding at all. I mean, what's what's
Speaker 3: the point of the contract, And you just got to
Speaker 3: be consistent their own naming review standards ask if there's
Speaker 3: a sub according to this a substantial evidence of misconduct
Speaker 3: harmful to OSU's reputation. If that bar's met, then the
Speaker 3: money's tainted. If the bar isn't met, then the name
Speaker 3: should stay. You can't clear the bar for removal, but
Speaker 3: not for a refund. And certainly throughout history, universities have
Speaker 3: certainly kept money from fire worse actors in this case
Speaker 3: and less Wexner. But it's selective outrage and only applies
Speaker 3: when a story goes viral. And what's our problem? What
Speaker 3: do we stand for? It's a really really tough place
Speaker 3: for any university, specially Ohio State, to be in. You're
Speaker 3: not taking the side of a less Wexner going, that's
Speaker 3: fine if you fund Jeffrey Epstein, who's raping young girls.
Speaker 2: So I don't worry, it's all good. I'm not saying that.
Speaker 2: I'm saying it's okay.
Speaker 3: If you're going to make this moral stand, then you
Speaker 3: have to make sacrifices as well. The sacrifice is two
Speaker 3: hundred million dollars or whatever whatever the amount is here
Speaker 3: it's a really interesting legal and more dilemma moral dilemma
Speaker 3: that they're in Columbus right now, because I think there's
Speaker 3: a lot of people at a hostate going, oh, if
Speaker 3: you're just quietal, go away or secretly hoping that the
Speaker 3: Wexner thing fizzles out and no one pays tension anymore.
Speaker 3: I don't know this while Epstein thing is just going
Speaker 3: to continue to build and build. The less our legal
Speaker 3: system does UH to bring those to justice, the more outcry.
Speaker 3: I think there's going to be at places like this, Hey,
Speaker 3: real quick at five point three seven four nine, seven thousand.
Speaker 3: Let me get to a Larry and Indiana on the
Speaker 3: Scotsland Show, Hailer, Hey, Scott, what's a uh?
Speaker 4: In quest into the Cincinnati They took McMillan's land.
Speaker 5: He donated all that and then sure came off the building.
Speaker 5: They didn't give the land back.
Speaker 3: Yep, we just did that, didn't we? That ties in
Speaker 3: Sure and it's like, well, what do you does the estate?
Speaker 3: Does the family that the somebody should get money back?
Speaker 3: At that point, I mean, I don't think there's an
Speaker 3: ex now McMillan that a long time ago, but there's
Speaker 3: a you know that there's also a legacy there. What
Speaker 3: happens if you start taking names off buildings years later?
Speaker 3: What what? What about all everything you profited from At
Speaker 3: this point, it just seems like it's a weird hide
Speaker 3: road today, especially now with the Wexner thing, because that's
Speaker 3: more current, right is. I can see where, Hey, they
Speaker 3: gave us the money, but you know, we learned what
Speaker 3: he did years later as abhorrent and not onlign with
Speaker 3: today's standard. Was maybe acceptable back then but not today.
Speaker 3: And so should you give the money back then? I
Speaker 3: think that's I think that's a lower bar low threshold
Speaker 3: for do you see because of the time. But at
Speaker 3: Ohio State right now, since this is a current event,
Speaker 3: I don't know. Do you think they should give the
Speaker 3: two hundred million back to Wexer?
Speaker 5: I believe so.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, and if you'd say that, it
Speaker 3: feels like you're taking the side of a child predator,
Speaker 3: which no one is. It's just okay, you kind of
Speaker 3: have to make a sacrifice.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: I think that's the admiral thing. You can't keep the
Speaker 3: blood money and then denounce it at the same time.
Speaker 3: It doesn't it should work that way, And I hope
Speaker 3: people see through that anyway. Hey, thanks for the call.
Speaker 3: I got to get a news update in when a return.
Speaker 3: At ten oh seven, Conpt Member Mark jeffersons, here's a
Speaker 3: question for you. We know that housing is date tight tight,
Speaker 3: very expensive like cars, very expensive, and we need more
Speaker 3: affordable housing and we need more doors in Cincinnati. Would
Speaker 3: you live in a place that was above a police
Speaker 3: station or a firehouse? Now think about well the noise
Speaker 3: issue for example, that is a proposal for Mark Jefferies
Speaker 3: to put a dent into our housing supply shortage with
Speaker 3: affordable housing here in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: I said, you look at it, you go, wait, what's
Speaker 2: he gonna do?
Speaker 3: You're gonna put You're gonna live above a fire a
Speaker 3: fire station, a police station. Why does this make sense?
Speaker 3: You'll lay it out next on the show seven hundred
Speaker 3: WWD Cincinnati. You want to be an American flowing out
Speaker 3: seven hundred w LW. Could this idea help tackle the
Speaker 3: housing crisis? You know w a housing pinch, housing crunch,
Speaker 3: and the idea is to stack housing on top of
Speaker 3: firehouses and police stations. Council Member Mark Jefferies is here
Speaker 3: to discuss on seven hundred WLW Mark, Good morning morning. No,
Speaker 3: when I first heard this, I chuckle. It seems I
Speaker 3: don't know why. It just seems silly, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Look, it's it's an interesting to think out of
Speaker 6: the box given the crisis that we have in housing.
Speaker 5: Look, this is.
Speaker 6: Happening throughout the country. You think about all the types
Speaker 6: of buildings that any city built, Yes, firehouses, police stations,
Speaker 6: but rec centers, health centers, and we build the base,
Speaker 6: you know, the first floor typically, and there's an opportunity
Speaker 6: to build a couple of floors on top of that.
Speaker 6: And in a lot of other cities that enables a
Speaker 6: lot more senior affordable housing because the economics work. The
Speaker 6: city's already spending money to build a foundation, so then
Speaker 6: a developer just comes in and builds the housing our top.
Speaker 6: So I think it's an opportunity. It's not going to
Speaker 6: solve our housing crisis, but it's one way to add
Speaker 6: more units for people who may want to live in
Speaker 6: a rangement like that. It's not for everyone, but some
Speaker 6: folks may very well want to live in a rec center.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a rec center. I mean you just mentioned police
Speaker 3: and fire stations. I guess maybe the fire station or
Speaker 3: lease stations, particularly the fire station. One to me is
Speaker 3: I mean, are you going to be people with with
Speaker 3: that are hard of hearing or hearing issues seniors, because
Speaker 3: it's I don't know about. If I ever a firehouse,
Speaker 3: I've been around, it's pretty loud.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 6: I chuckle at that as well. But if you think
Speaker 6: about I mean, I live in Clifton on Love Low.
Speaker 6: People live literally right next to the fire station. Over
Speaker 6: in Westwood, the firehouses people live across or next to it.
Speaker 6: Most fire trucks these days when they leave, they don't
Speaker 6: put their sirens on right away anyway. And so you know,
Speaker 6: I mean, yes, it's as I said, it may not
Speaker 6: be for everyone, but I think it's an opportunity to
Speaker 6: add more housing units.
Speaker 5: And here's the thing, Scott.
Speaker 6: You know, we added about five thousand people in terms
Speaker 6: of population, and we're only adding about a thousand units
Speaker 6: net of new housing a year, right, And what that
Speaker 6: means pure supply is a man is that as a result,
Speaker 6: prices are going up, and so we need more housing.
Speaker 6: And this is a creative solution that we'll add more housing.
Speaker 3: It's true, not just in Cincinnati, but everywhere. The price
Speaker 3: of housing as we know, is going up exorbitantly these days.
Speaker 3: I had a started earlier this morning at nine oh
Speaker 3: six on the podcast, and the average price Mark Jeffreys
Speaker 3: of a new car has just the average price now
Speaker 3: has just passed the fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: Mark.
Speaker 3: Let that's sank in for a second. I mean that's
Speaker 3: that's car, but housings right up there too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean, look, Scott, the you know, the average average
Speaker 6: age of a new home buyers forty now. Several years
Speaker 6: ago it was thirty something. In the sixties it was twenty,
Speaker 6: I mean forty, and you take out a thirty year
Speaker 6: mortgage here in your seventies, yep, before you're even paying
Speaker 6: off the pain off the mortgage, and the I mean,
Speaker 6: the American dream is just unattainable.
Speaker 2: Okay. If you're younger, you feel like the screws.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm someone behind the baby boomer generation and
Speaker 3: I feel like, Wow, I'm getting squeeze. I can only imagine,
Speaker 3: you know, you're a gen Z of millennials, but particularly
Speaker 3: Gen z RS right now. But is this enough housing
Speaker 3: units to make a dent in it?
Speaker 2: Mark? I mean, what are we actually talking about?
Speaker 6: Her?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: So as I preface, it's not going to solve. It's
Speaker 6: going to take a lot of these things. We legalize
Speaker 6: the desperate dwelling units, you remember that. I've met somebody
Speaker 6: the other day who added it. They moved their parents
Speaker 6: in their backyard and they absolutely love it.
Speaker 5: You know, So you get incremental units.
Speaker 6: It's not gonna there's no silver bullets that's going to
Speaker 6: solve all of the housing needs. But look if we
Speaker 6: can add a couple hundred units as a result of this,
Speaker 6: when you when you think about it, it's got you know,
Speaker 6: we sold the railroad, we're you know, in principle, we've
Speaker 6: got twice as much investment going into UH into city projects,
Speaker 6: including we're going to build three new firehouses yep. And
Speaker 6: so over the next couple of years, we're going to
Speaker 6: be added more off the structure. And and what I've
Speaker 6: asked the administration to do is just look where does
Speaker 6: it make sense. It may not make sense everywhere, but
Speaker 6: as they look at their massive plan of where we're
Speaker 6: going to build new units. I'll give you an example
Speaker 6: in Oakley, we built a new rec center there that
Speaker 6: would have been perfect. You know, I know I do
Speaker 6: know some people that said well, they would love to
Speaker 6: live on top of a wreck and have a workout,
Speaker 6: They can go out and you know, leave their kids
Speaker 6: at the daycare. You know. Again, except for everyone, but
Speaker 6: for some.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, that seems like I mean that that
Speaker 3: does seem like a good idea as long as you know,
Speaker 3: I'm curious how many people are going to wind up
Speaker 3: running these places. But how do you ensure that housing
Speaker 3: is built on top of these new structures, Mark Jefferies,
Speaker 3: is generally affordable and not just a little less expensive
Speaker 3: than luxury market rates.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, the reality is, I think the economics
Speaker 6: will be in principle much better because if you think
Speaker 6: about let's say a rec center, the city is paying
Speaker 6: to build the foundation, of paying to build the first floor,
Speaker 6: and so that has stunt costs for whatever developers and
Speaker 6: developers paying for, you know, floors two, three, four, five, one,
Speaker 6: ever the case may be. And so in principle, what
Speaker 6: we've seen around the country as a result is those
Speaker 6: units are a lot more affordable, especially for seniors. I mean,
Speaker 6: look to our earlier conversation, and these folks who are
Speaker 6: in their sixties, seventies and maybe have fixed income, and
Speaker 6: prices are going up, rents are going up. They need
Speaker 6: predictable places to live where they know exactly how much
Speaker 6: their rent is going to be.
Speaker 5: And they can't, you.
Speaker 6: Know, they don't have flexible income for a lot of
Speaker 6: folks who are you know, in their seventies plus.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, I guess what happens is, so the city
Speaker 3: would buy property. Let's say they're can to develop a
Speaker 3: rec center like an Oakley if you could go in
Speaker 3: the way back machine and do it there. All right,
Speaker 3: so you own, you buy the land very expensive, You
Speaker 3: build in the structure as long as you're digging and developing.
Speaker 3: You put down bigger footer so it can support a
Speaker 3: building above a building. And now the developer goes, okay, good,
Speaker 3: we're going to seal or rent these buildings out. Why
Speaker 3: wouldn't they just try to get market rate, which is
Speaker 3: going to be higher than a lot of people can afford.
Speaker 3: Does that undermine the affordability issue?
Speaker 6: Yeah? I mean I think that comes back to who
Speaker 6: we partner with and what developer and what the agreement
Speaker 6: is with the developer. And that's where in the early
Speaker 6: stages of this right, I've just asked the administration to
Speaker 6: go out and identify where the buildings and then have
Speaker 6: conversations with different developers, especially ones who build affordable houses,
Speaker 6: and I think that would be part of the agreement,
Speaker 6: is that they're building that had income restricted housing on
Speaker 6: these units.
Speaker 3: Okay, he's got some member, Mark Jeffries, with a novel
Speaker 3: approach here to help put a dent into the city's
Speaker 3: housing crisis. And it's a crisis that's repeated in every
Speaker 3: town across America, and saying, hey, you know, if the
Speaker 3: city's going to start building new fire stations, police stations,
Speaker 3: rec centers, things like that with the money from the
Speaker 3: railway fund, well, then shouldn't we think about maybe putting
Speaker 3: housing atop some of these buildings. I don't know how
Speaker 3: many people want to live above a fire station or
Speaker 3: police station, but rec centers and other buildings like that.
Speaker 3: Possibly does this help put a small vent, But any
Speaker 3: little bite of the apple, of course, is better than nothing.
Speaker 3: I would say in that regard, though, how many other
Speaker 3: cities are doing this in to what success?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I mean I just saw an example yesterday of a
Speaker 6: smaller city in Oregon, just outside like Portland or whatever,
Speaker 6: and they built housing on top of the libraries in
Speaker 6: town and its senior affordable, I think below sixty percent
Speaker 6: average union income. There are several cities throughout the country
Speaker 6: that have done this, and so it's not a completely
Speaker 6: unique approach. It's been done before. It just hasn't been
Speaker 6: done here, and you know, it'll drive some incremental units
Speaker 6: and definitely worth running the ground. Look, I mean, it
Speaker 6: may not resolve everything, but it adds a little bit.
Speaker 6: Then I think we're.
Speaker 3: Much I don't think it's I don't think it's a
Speaker 3: game changer. Like, for example, the ordinance allows people to
Speaker 3: take their freestanding garages and an accessory dwelling unit and
Speaker 3: turn that into livable housing. That to me seems a
Speaker 3: very novel approach because it's good for the homeowner, it's
Speaker 3: good for tenants. It gets more doors out there that
Speaker 3: we desperately need. But this is you know, it's I
Speaker 3: guess it's a practical solution here. You're already going to
Speaker 3: build these things, why not put some extra housing above
Speaker 3: it and try to take some of that load off.
Speaker 3: I mean, no, it makes sense. We're not just building
Speaker 3: things to build them for housing. We're actually constructing things
Speaker 3: that the community needs and then leveraging that because you're
Speaker 3: already own the property in the building. I mean, no,
Speaker 3: it makes makes a lot of sense in a lot
Speaker 3: of regards long as we start small and see how
Speaker 3: it goes. How many properties top of your head, mark Jefferies,
Speaker 3: do you see or how many developments out there that
Speaker 3: are pending or on the horizon with this money? Now,
Speaker 3: do you see where this would fit in any specific
Speaker 3: examples of where might do this? I mean, I do know.
Speaker 6: We have at least three firehouses that we're gonna build
Speaker 6: in the next few years. I think it will probably
Speaker 6: renovate a couple of help let me think about the
Speaker 6: city has health centers as well. I mean we're building
Speaker 6: the Overrye over the Ryan Rec Center now, so that's
Speaker 6: kind of that ship has sailed, you know, But you're
Speaker 6: probably talking about, you know, over the next ten years,
Speaker 6: maybe a dozen or so at most where this could apply.
Speaker 6: But you know, a dozen with maybe fifty or fewer
Speaker 6: units on top. You know that's you know that that
Speaker 6: starts that up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean you know you're spending the money already.
Speaker 3: The bulk of money, as I said, is in the structure,
Speaker 3: the buying the land and everything is like a little
Speaker 3: gravy on top. And if you can maybe even make
Speaker 3: some money off that too and put it back into
Speaker 3: the fund, that's probably even better for taxpayer.
Speaker 2: So it works out there. Any of these.
Speaker 3: Areas you mentioned, and I know it's like Frisco is
Speaker 3: doing it, you said Portland. Are there any problems they've
Speaker 3: run into with this?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 6: I mean, I think it really depends on having a
Speaker 6: strong partner and a developer. And we have a lot
Speaker 6: of local developers who produce, especially IF units, and I
Speaker 6: think it's just making sure that you've got the right
Speaker 6: partner who has a track record of, you know, really
Speaker 6: caring about the types of units that they're developing. And
Speaker 6: we've got a lot of those, so I think that's
Speaker 6: that's really the key.
Speaker 2: And yeah, are there any liability issues there?
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, police stations can be dangerous places,
Speaker 3: firehouses are noisy, and you've got big equipment coming in there.
Speaker 3: Any any risk liability concerns?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 6: I mean I think a lot of the places that
Speaker 6: do it, they've got separate entrances. Obviously you're not going
Speaker 6: to be walking through a firehouse or a police station.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I don't get to slide down the pole.
Speaker 5: What the hell.
Speaker 2: Late for work.
Speaker 6: Look, I mean a lot of people might feel a
Speaker 6: little bit safer u being on top of and as
Speaker 6: I said, look, I mean said the noise issue. There
Speaker 6: are a lot of places in the city where people
Speaker 6: live right next to a firehouse station and uh, you know,
Speaker 6: they they manage, and so I think a lot of
Speaker 6: folks might feel particularly safe, you know, on top of
Speaker 6: it or right next to it.
Speaker 3: Right And you also wanted to build this ordinance to
Speaker 3: to you know, to future profit so someone doesn't come
Speaker 3: in and overturn it. But you know, you're talking such
Speaker 3: a small number of units, I can't imagine it being
Speaker 3: a problem. What about the element though, the contentious Southern
Speaker 3: Railway Trust Fund, And of course that whole thing was
Speaker 3: was something contentious to about what you're going to do
Speaker 3: with the money. And for those who said, wow, here
Speaker 3: we go, we're gonna get off in the weeds. Now
Speaker 3: we're going to take this money. It was destined for infrastructure,
Speaker 3: our crappy roads and intersections, lights, public safety, maybe some buildings,
Speaker 3: and now we're going to start building housing out of
Speaker 3: it that has nothing to do with infrastructure. That's a
Speaker 3: separate deal entirely. It feels like a legal challenge may
Speaker 3: come out of this.
Speaker 6: Well, what I would say is none of that. First
Speaker 6: of all, we are legally prohibited from using that money
Speaker 6: for anything other than current infrastructure. And so if we're
Speaker 6: you know, building you the structure, that money legally cannot
Speaker 6: be used, you know, And so it is purely for
Speaker 6: current infrastructure. So it's not gonna be used to build
Speaker 6: housing on top of anything. So that money would be
Speaker 6: a partnership with a developer. If the city is building
Speaker 6: the structure or renovating the structure, and then on top
Speaker 6: the developer would cover that. And it's your point that
Speaker 6: can be covered in the legal parameters. I think the
Speaker 6: guard rails on the rail funds.
Speaker 7: Are pretty clear.
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
Speaker 3: So the rail money would bid to the LA Rec Center,
Speaker 3: police station, fire station. If you decide to do this
Speaker 3: element of adding on and building up, that's a whole
Speaker 3: separate fund in different money that's going to come in
Speaker 3: to do that, and it's going to be in conjunction.
Speaker 6: And it's not city money. That would not be city money.
Speaker 6: The city would not be spending a dime on that.
Speaker 2: The developer ware would be got.
Speaker 6: A private developer coming in and building housing on top
Speaker 6: got it.
Speaker 3: But again we will see It's interesting. I don't know
Speaker 3: how the developer doesn't go okay, fine, well we're already
Speaker 3: doing this. We'll charge market rates. You're gonna have to
Speaker 3: put some guardrails in there to make sure if you
Speaker 3: want to do affordable housing or market rate housing, you
Speaker 3: you then have to instruct them saying, hey, look, you
Speaker 3: know we'll do this deal, but are you gonna put
Speaker 3: caps in for how much they can charge? But that
Speaker 3: kind of upends the free market because typically someone can
Speaker 3: afford it if it's a nicer place and go, yeah,
Speaker 3: I want to live above a rec center, tender track.
Speaker 3: Maybe more young urban professionals who are going to pay
Speaker 3: top dollar for that. But that then frees up inventory
Speaker 3: down the line a little bit.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think for you know, like we
Speaker 6: have a lot of developers like the Model Groups that
Speaker 6: does development in and round of the line, that does
Speaker 6: a lot of affordable units. You know, developers like that
Speaker 6: who can come in and say yes, they intend to
Speaker 6: make the units income restricted, and I think, you know,
Speaker 6: that's what we would have to ensure as we write
Speaker 6: the contract and partner with them.
Speaker 3: He's a council member Mark Jeffers and the Scotslan Show
Speaker 3: on seven hundred WLW. And the proposal here to take
Speaker 3: the development from the Cincinnat Southern Railway Trust funds. So
Speaker 3: it's going to be police stations and rec centers and
Speaker 3: firehouses and things, Paul libraries, things like that, and in
Speaker 3: a separate account to housing over the top of some
Speaker 3: of these buildings to alleviate the housing crisis in Cincinnati.
Speaker 3: And you know, it's a creative idea. It's a creative
Speaker 3: solution here. It'll put a small den in things. But again,
Speaker 3: any step forward in the right direction, I think is
Speaker 3: it's a pretty good idea.
Speaker 2: Mark.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I've scotten.
Speaker 6: The thing that I want to emphasize this books listening
Speaker 6: is the prior point. None of this money for housing
Speaker 6: on top would come from public dollars. This would not
Speaker 6: be railroad dollars or anything, because I think, you know, initially,
Speaker 6: when one might see that, they might conclude that. I
Speaker 6: think what it is is, hey, we're building these structures anyway,
Speaker 6: let's partner with somebody who then because you've already put
Speaker 6: this on costs and can build housing on top.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know I mentioned car is fifty thousand dollars,
Speaker 3: the average price of car in America and the housing
Speaker 3: price of housing and rent is going through the literally
Speaker 3: the roof as well. No pun intended something else had
Speaker 3: happened recently. I don't know, you only have a second
Speaker 3: for this, But during his stay the same mayor after that,
Speaker 3: purevol mentioned his pension bailout plan two hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: million dollars was stuck, you know, ten years ago to
Speaker 3: try and fully fund the city pension program. And now
Speaker 3: it's like, hey, we don't have enough money in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty six, and so now we've got another fifty million
Speaker 3: dollars going in the system, which is about you know,
Speaker 3: taking a significant by out of tax revenues. At some point,
Speaker 3: do you look at that model and go, it's antiquated,
Speaker 3: it's old. That employer funded or city funded pension plant
Speaker 3: plan doesn't work. Why don't we just move everyone over
Speaker 3: a four to one k.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's a lot bigger discussion. I mean,
Speaker 6: as you know, the Futures Commission had several recommendations on
Speaker 6: solvency on the pension. The proposal that was outlined last
Speaker 6: week was intended as kind of a compromise of the
Speaker 6: employer or employees actually increased their own content and then
Speaker 6: the city in turn is increasing their contribution. So it's
Speaker 6: intended as kind of a balance. But I think that's
Speaker 6: a bigger, longer term conversation is how do we make
Speaker 6: sure that, you know, I mean, it's the solvency of
Speaker 6: that fund and the impact on the city budgets well.
Speaker 3: Fixed you know, fixed pension plans are it's a dog.
Speaker 3: I mean, we'll it's losing all over the place, teachers
Speaker 3: and here in the city of Cincinnati. You can't afford
Speaker 3: fifty million every few years to prop this whole thing up.
Speaker 3: And at some point, you know, four oh one k's
Speaker 3: work wonderfully. I'm in one, and I know people go on,
Speaker 3: there's no guarant there's no guarantees anymore. I mean, pensions
Speaker 3: are you know, an idea that's at least fifty years old.
Speaker 3: They just simply don't work anymore. And I think it's
Speaker 3: unfair to burden people, especially younger tax payers and those
Speaker 3: who are trying to lure to Cincinnati by having to
Speaker 3: pay the freight on this.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean, look, I have a four to one k
Speaker 6: myself for my company, and my wife through her pediatric
Speaker 6: office as well. So I mean I hear you. I
Speaker 6: think this is a larger discussion that we need to
Speaker 6: have that came out of the Futures Commission of how
Speaker 6: do we make sure that our physical health is strong
Speaker 6: going forward? Yeah, and you know there's a lot more
Speaker 6: that we need to do on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll have a separate conversation there, but that definitely
Speaker 3: has to change. He's Console member Mark Jeffries. Thanks for
Speaker 3: jumping on the show again. Mark, have a great day.
Speaker 6: Appreciate it's got tickare.
Speaker 2: Take care all the best.
Speaker 3: Let me get a news updated and that's about five
Speaker 3: minutes away here on seven hundred WW. The whipsaw, whether
Speaker 3: we have warm temperatures, We've got more snow coming and
Speaker 3: then more warm temperatures. As Mom would say, you're gonna
Speaker 3: get sick, You're gonna catch your death. Full forecast traffic,
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Speaker 3: like for us to recognize on air, Text or name
Speaker 3: to fifty one eight eighty one and be listening slowly
Speaker 3: back on seven hundred WLW. A couple of things going
Speaker 3: on this I don't know if you follow. I've really
Speaker 3: done the BAFT Awards, which are a British thing. I
Speaker 3: don't even know what the hell that is, but it's
Speaker 3: really interesting the controversy surrounding this thing. So they had
Speaker 3: the word so on what Sunday, And there was a
Speaker 3: Touret syndrome activist named John Davidson who during the presentation
Speaker 3: he was seated in the crowd in the audience, and
Speaker 3: during the ceremony, Black actors del Roy Lindo and Michael B.
Speaker 3: Jordan were on stage and Davidson was there. The guy
Speaker 3: with the tourettes was attending because the film I Swear
Speaker 3: was nominated for awards. I Swear was inspired by his
Speaker 3: life with Tourette syndrome. And as you know, Tourette syndrome
Speaker 3: not in all cases, but in a number of cases
Speaker 3: makes you say things under nervousness that you know. The
Speaker 3: extreme examples are people would use very horrible and coarse language,
Speaker 3: and in the case of Davidson, he was blurting out
Speaker 3: during the award the N word.
Speaker 2: What the N word?
Speaker 3: So the host addressed the Ausbers a couple of times
Speaker 3: he explained that Tourett's syndram ticks are in voluntary, and
Speaker 3: then afterwards, of course there was all hauled up to
Speaker 3: pay for that. Jamie Fox fired back on social media.
Speaker 3: He said the incident was unacceptable and that he meant
Speaker 3: that bleep that Davidson actually meant it, which if it's
Speaker 3: an actual bonafide medical condition, and we all know about turetts,
Speaker 3: we know that not to be true. But still, the
Speaker 3: part about this whole thing was I think one journalist
Speaker 3: wrote something about how black people are supposed to be
Speaker 3: okay with being disrespected to human eyes, so other people
Speaker 3: don't feel bad. And the whole problem is the fact
Speaker 3: that this could have been avoided. Why would you put
Speaker 3: someone with Tourett's who I mean, I'm sure it's not
Speaker 3: the friend, and did he mean it? I would I'd
Speaker 3: side in him, knowing I don't know much about turets,
Speaker 3: but I know it's a real, real condition, and you
Speaker 3: know he's probably spurted put this word out there before himself, right,
Speaker 3: And so why would you take someone with that disability
Speaker 3: and put them in a position where they and you
Speaker 3: kind of thought he might do this because of the
Speaker 3: tension that put him in a position where this could
Speaker 3: happen in the first place. And the problem is this
Speaker 3: this whole victimhood hierarchy thing too. So you got this
Speaker 3: disabled person with Turetts harming someone from another marginalized group,
Speaker 3: and now you've got to rank victimhoods, So like it's
Speaker 3: a battle of victimhoods. Who's victim whose experience is worse
Speaker 3: the guy with Touret syndrome or Black America or blacks
Speaker 3: in America, And so everyone rushes to defend the guy
Speaker 3: with Turetts, But there's also harm done to well Lindo
Speaker 3: and Jordan, so that disability was being used as a shield, right,
Speaker 3: It's like the apology shouldn't really the apologies should have
Speaker 3: to come, is it? Apology come from black men or
Speaker 3: people with Turetts? And when it came out and said, well,
Speaker 3: if you're offended by this, that's not really an apology.
Speaker 3: We apologize if you're a friend it offended by this.
Speaker 3: So it almost seems like you're a bad person if
Speaker 3: you're offended by this, which is not true at all.
Speaker 3: It centers the disabled person's innocence rather than the harm
Speaker 3: done to the real people in the room and it
Speaker 3: kind of was a throw right. I have to agree
Speaker 3: with the journalists to put that out there now. Prior
Speaker 3: to this whole thing, guests were told before the show
Speaker 3: and there was a jumbo tron intro and there are
Speaker 3: two announcements made by the host, Alan Cumming, who also
Speaker 3: did the apology and let people know, hey, this could happen.
Speaker 3: Is that A Does that feel like you would all
Speaker 3: a genuine accommodation, like you know, if you're in a wheelchair,
Speaker 3: we have accommodations where you have ramps, we have elevators,
Speaker 3: we have have seats extra you go to pay course,
Speaker 3: damem a Reds game, and you know we should be
Speaker 3: doing that. We should have ramps and curb cuts and
Speaker 3: things like that hundred percent. But this almost feels like
Speaker 3: it's beyond an accommodation and we told you. It's like, oh,
Speaker 3: we told you ahead of time this could happen. So
Speaker 3: if you're uncomfortable, it's your problem. Now, why would you
Speaker 3: put him in that type of seating where he could
Speaker 3: do that? Or I'm not put him in a you know,
Speaker 3: like if you go to go to mass and they
Speaker 3: have the cry room for kids, so they have just
Speaker 3: rubbed mass.
Speaker 2: Why not in an environment like that.
Speaker 3: Well, then you're singling him out and making him feel well,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sorry if if this is the condition
Speaker 3: which you suffer from, and there's no cure for it,
Speaker 3: it's a horrible thing. I'm not saying I'll forget about it.
Speaker 3: I'm saying this.
Speaker 2: We go so far to make accommodations or aggrieved groups.
Speaker 3: It's insane. It's a terret is a real thing. It's
Speaker 3: a tick. Doesn't answer why you would use the N word.
Speaker 3: And I feel badly for the black prof formers that
Speaker 3: were there too. And now we've got this fight between
Speaker 3: who's the more aggrieved group. It's this, this whole.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's empathy, theater we want to feel. So we want
Speaker 3: to hold this person up because they're nominated for this important,
Speaker 3: stupid award and and we're gonna we're gonna treat them
Speaker 3: like anyone else would anyone else. And it's your fault
Speaker 3: if you don't quote unquote get it. That's it's so exploitative,
Speaker 3: and that's where we are today in society for a
Speaker 3: lot of groups, not just someone with turets in this case.
Speaker 3: There are some people and I know that the not
Speaker 3: maybe the most common thing, but if you have tourettes
Speaker 3: is people who have nervous laughter.
Speaker 2: It's kind of close to that.
Speaker 3: There are some folks under stress they'll laugh, I love,
Speaker 3: like I don't know, a big tragedy happens and they'll
Speaker 3: start laughing, you know, like what a jerk? What an
Speaker 3: a hole? Yeah, but that's that's the tick. And I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: but involuntary, it's involuntary. They can control themselves. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: it also doesn't mean consequence free and selfware about how
Speaker 3: your condition affects others is still a reasonable expectation. You
Speaker 3: shouldn't be allowed to do whatever the hell you want
Speaker 3: to do because your condition.
Speaker 2: It's it's there's and none of that.
Speaker 3: I think it's you think that Davidson guy with taretz,
Speaker 3: do you feel kind of like he's I don't know,
Speaker 3: like a he's like a display item. Like they're putting
Speaker 3: him out there going, oh, you look at your successful
Speaker 3: and good for you treating them like, you know, like
Speaker 3: like a ten year old autistic kid for crying out loud.
Speaker 3: He has agency too. Those things aren't usually exclusive. He
Speaker 3: could have said, yeah, you know what, this is kind
Speaker 3: of exploitative. I know, I'm gonna blurt some bad stuff out,
Speaker 3: maybe not the end bomb, but bad stuff. And it's
Speaker 3: going to disrupt the ceremony. Yeah, maybe everybody off on
Speaker 3: a corner backstage. Why do you have to know? No,
Speaker 3: we have to treat you like everyone else, but you're not.
Speaker 3: And if you do that and you're put in a
Speaker 3: position now he again, I said he has agency so
Speaker 3: he could say, yeah, I'm not doing this, but chose
Speaker 3: to engage in this whole spectacle. This is what happens,
Speaker 3: you know, the debate over you know, Jamie Fox, Well,
Speaker 3: it's not real. He said that, he meant it. You know,
Speaker 3: I couldn't disagree more. It's or Israel. It obviously is.
Speaker 3: But there's this whole cultural reflux now because of propriety
Speaker 3: and because of empathy, which should have empathy, but I
Speaker 3: think that's that's also you're you're taking empathy and you're
Speaker 3: using it as a weapon as a well, either you're
Speaker 3: with us or against us.
Speaker 2: It's not that way. You know, there's there's I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: but there's.
Speaker 3: This culture reflux where you say a disability or aggrieved
Speaker 3: group and it instantly ends in a moral conversational to
Speaker 3: you that if you if you say anything against us,
Speaker 3: you're a horrible person.
Speaker 2: That's not true at all.
Speaker 3: How is this serving actual disabled people or is it
Speaker 3: just making everyone else feel enlightened while the real harm
Speaker 3: goes unaddressed. I mean this, it's the dumbest, most awful
Speaker 3: example of our times. And that's just this week. I'm
Speaker 3: sure tomorrow will be something else. You know, the tics
Speaker 3: aren't your fault. I get that, but they can make
Speaker 3: people uncomfortable. And I'm sure Davidson knows that too. And
Speaker 3: if his tick is shouting horrible obscenities, you should be
Speaker 3: willing to accept you do need special accommodations and just
Speaker 3: have the decency to ask for them and not be
Speaker 3: trotted out there like some sort of freak show spectacle,
Speaker 3: which is what this whole thing is now devolved in.
Speaker 3: And how does that help people with any disability or
Speaker 3: of any group. It's just the decide wheelers. It's insane.
Speaker 3: It's insane. You want to blame well, it's a social
Speaker 3: media culture. It's just how we are. So we're bend
Speaker 3: over backwards to look how look how inclusive we are.
Speaker 2: But you're not.
Speaker 3: That's that's the exact opposite of that. And you made,
Speaker 3: you know, you made people in this case. But black
Speaker 3: guys go, yeah, I'm supposed to accept that that horrible word.
Speaker 2: Not not really.
Speaker 3: And then if you if there's backlash against the guys turetts,
Speaker 3: then you don't have any empathy for people with disabilities like.
Speaker 2: That, which those two things are. It's just simply not true.
Speaker 2: What a joke.
Speaker 3: I mean that guy that happened over there, it didn't
Speaker 3: didn't happen to BAFT awards when you're a lesser award show.
Speaker 3: But the whole victim would hierarchy and which is the
Speaker 3: more you know, know, if you had a I don't know,
Speaker 3: if you had a black Asian person in a wheelchair
Speaker 3: with Tourett's and they also had I don't know, gluten issues,
Speaker 3: sens it. I mean, you know where we're like looking
Speaker 3: for this ultimate poster chote. It feels like these groups
Speaker 3: do that, they look for this ultimate cause like wow,
Speaker 3: it's gone, it checks all the boxes.
Speaker 2: It's a horrible look. Everyone's got their stuff, I get it.
Speaker 3: And some disabilities are are not visible to utts is obviously,
Speaker 3: but you know, we should have to be choosing between
Speaker 3: between these groups. It's just it's it's a crazy it's
Speaker 3: a crazy notion we got to today, that's for sure. Anyway,
Speaker 3: Scott flowing here on seven hundred W. But I'm glad
Speaker 3: I don't watch ward shows. That's the bottom line for
Speaker 3: it today. Another reason not to watch Award shows for sure.
Speaker 3: Here's something on a light well, I don't know if
Speaker 3: it's a lighter basis or not. You know, we have
Speaker 3: these apps now and certainly we have devices those apps
Speaker 3: work with and if you have an Apple I have
Speaker 3: an Apple Watch now.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: I track a little fitness on there. I got a calendar.
Speaker 3: I can look at the weather because I'm you know,
Speaker 3: I'm a d d AF and I need those things
Speaker 3: document by time and so I can. Oh, I got
Speaker 3: text I'm looking at it right now. And we also
Speaker 3: have these with the Aura rings. You put the ring on,
Speaker 3: it tracks your sleep. And we have fitbits. We have
Speaker 3: all these devices. Say what is the one thing we
Speaker 3: don't track on you? I mean, think about it. You
Speaker 3: can track everything. You can track your steps, I can
Speaker 3: track my sleep, I could trap my exercise. It tells
Speaker 3: me where I am in the world. It's got GPS
Speaker 3: locator on it. I get my messages, I get the
Speaker 3: way I get all this stuff coming at me. What
Speaker 3: is the one tool that is What is the one
Speaker 3: thing on our bodies? He say, is not measured how
Speaker 3: the new Apple watches by the way, uh ekg it
Speaker 3: tells you if you're going to the v fib. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's like having it's like having a doctor following you
Speaker 3: are on on your ears. Like every possible metric with
Speaker 3: your health is now measured. Exercise steps, vertical, I'm going
Speaker 3: under the ocean over the you all these things? How
Speaker 3: fast am I walking?
Speaker 2: You know? The one thing that isn't measured.
Speaker 3: Farting? Your watch? Your fitbit cannot measure how much gas
Speaker 3: you produce. Until now, the University of Maryland has developed
Speaker 3: a wearable sensor dubbed the Fitbit for Farts that monitors
Speaker 3: flatulence in real time. And you're going, how does it
Speaker 3: do that on your wrist? Well, it's not on your wrist?
Speaker 2: Wait what.
Speaker 6: So?
Speaker 3: The device itself is about the size of a stack.
Speaker 3: It looks like three nickels, and it detects hydrogen emissions
Speaker 3: from your butt and it sits outside your underwear. I'm
Speaker 3: not sure if there's like a special strap, if it's
Speaker 3: a clip on, it's a plug. I'm not quite sure
Speaker 3: if it's a butt muffler. How this works. I only
Speaker 3: see I'm only looking at an aerial view here. And
Speaker 3: you have to you have to.
Speaker 2: Recharge it every I'm making this up. No, it's true.
Speaker 2: You're recharge it every twenty four hours.
Speaker 3: And that, by the way, is a charge. And I
Speaker 3: hope to guy like, oh, yeah, it's a qug. You
Speaker 3: just put some magnetic thing. I hope it has a
Speaker 3: separate charging cord or dock that no other device can
Speaker 3: fit into, because I don't want to be hey, man,
Speaker 3: can I charge my phone?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Here, Well what's this from?
Speaker 3: Well, it's that thing I put my butt, So you
Speaker 3: don't want to be confused and put your phone on
Speaker 3: that same charge. Just hope it's like a different shape charger.
Speaker 3: We need a new port. That's they call it a
Speaker 3: port for your port. It is called the Human Flatuless.
Speaker 3: Atlas is what this app is, and it studies. Uh
Speaker 3: they're doing a study right now looking at They're sending
Speaker 3: out eight hundred devices to people nationwide, so there's already
Speaker 3: four thousand people applied. The wait list is long for
Speaker 3: this thing because researchers say forty percent of US adults
Speaker 3: suffer regular digestive issue choose and fiber rich diets, which
Speaker 3: are key to gut health, as you know, often get
Speaker 3: a banded due to gas and bloating. So they are
Speaker 3: looking for people who are next level farts. One person
Speaker 3: who's in the study and they use this device and
Speaker 3: found that they pass gas. How many times you think
Speaker 3: it's got to be like a world record one person?
Speaker 3: The lowest one is only four times. Another person one
Speaker 3: hundred seventy five a day. That's like a full time job.
Speaker 3: One hundred and seventy five times a day.
Speaker 2: You out of you had to be in a Hospital's
Speaker 2: who I be?
Speaker 3: Before field testing, the sensor is calibrated using an artificial butt,
Speaker 3: a lab butt, a mannequin attached a gas cannon to
Speaker 3: simulate fletceleance. On command, the top three percent of gas
Speaker 3: producers will get their gut microme microbiome sequence and receive
Speaker 3: a plaque declaring them prodigious hydrogen producer. Now that let
Speaker 3: me tell you something. You may have some stupid golf
Speaker 3: you I finished third in my flight at the country club.
Speaker 2: Uh, I want to try. I want to try.
Speaker 3: I got a participation ribbon for the Tough Mutter. I
Speaker 3: want to I got a World Series, I got a
Speaker 3: Stanley Cup. I want an Olympic gold medal. I don't
Speaker 3: care about all that. You want, you need, you desire,
Speaker 3: you crave, you covet the prodigious hydrogen producer plaque. That's
Speaker 3: what you want. That is the ultimate goal right there.
Speaker 3: So anyway, they want to get these devices out there,
Speaker 3: and they want to develop treatments, maybe a pill for
Speaker 3: people suffering from chronic gas and bloating. You see those
Speaker 3: wacky you know, drug comerciant tving Ai and Blownding. I
Speaker 3: gotta take this product over the counter. I'm blound it,
Speaker 3: I feel bad. Which you need is one of these
Speaker 3: button mufflers. Again, this is the University of Maryland. I
Speaker 3: don't have a phone number few to call it, and
Speaker 3: I have a website. I don't even have an email here.
Speaker 3: But they are developing a wearable censor, the fitbit for
Speaker 3: farts that moderns flatulence in real time. Count me in
Speaker 3: because my wife say, yes, absolutely, you should be that
Speaker 3: you should definitely be doing the clinical trials for this Scott.
Speaker 3: You absolutely, Sue, I'm quite proud of that actually, and
Speaker 3: so one hero.
Speaker 2: We don't have.
Speaker 3: We measure every other metric with our bodies, fitness apps.
Speaker 3: You know some of these people are insane. Oh, I
Speaker 3: have shave of CREMANI here on Thursday, fitness doctor and
Speaker 3: he's got a guy one percent body fat, but he
Speaker 3: is one percent, and he's treating his body like a
Speaker 3: human laboratory, seeing how low he can get his body
Speaker 3: fat percentage, how riptiking, how bulked up he can get.
Speaker 3: We measure all that stuff all the time, and we're
Speaker 3: inundated with products. No one has addressed the issue other
Speaker 3: than a I don't know, over the counter remedy for
Speaker 3: your gas and bloating.
Speaker 2: It is here, take this tablet.
Speaker 3: But you know if you have to take one of
Speaker 3: those a day, or a couple of those a day,
Speaker 3: you're like, something else is going on here.
Speaker 2: This could be the first say this is here. Don't laugh.
Speaker 2: This is serious scientific research. This is serious, very very
Speaker 2: very serious. The very last bastion of measurement on our body,
Speaker 2: measuring your farts.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing. A few years ago they came out
Speaker 3: with home breathalyzers, and have you seen this that are
Speaker 3: like one hundred bucks are probably in cheaper now I
Speaker 3: get on Amazon for probably like five bucks, and it's
Speaker 3: a portable breath lay. You take it within. So if
Speaker 3: you're out and you're having a good time, I'm like,
Speaker 3: why I am I good enough to drive? You're good enough?
Speaker 3: You're asking that question? You probably you probably aren't, but
Speaker 3: so you're blow in the tube. It's're it that way.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, okay, I know that I'm am I
Speaker 3: close to or over the legal limit. I don't recommend
Speaker 3: it because they'll still know you if you're under the
Speaker 3: legal limit. That's a different topic entirely. But oh I
Speaker 3: got that. I got that same information they have in
Speaker 3: the top palm of our hands. Now what happens is
Speaker 3: you get these devices, then you go here, hold my beer.
Speaker 3: I can get a higher score than you, because I've
Speaker 3: heard that, Like people buy these things and bring them
Speaker 3: a bar and then everyone's blowing into this thing, and
Speaker 3: everyone wants to see if they're drunker than the next guy.
Speaker 3: Try to set some sort of like you know, that's
Speaker 3: not what it's forced to make sure you're okay. It
Speaker 3: makes sure you're not over the legal limit. It's not
Speaker 3: to try and get a high score. This isn't King's Island,
Speaker 3: this isn't pop a shot. What do you I guarantee
Speaker 3: you this product comes out, people buy them and then
Speaker 3: have farting contest like we've always had, guys. We've always
Speaker 3: done farting contest, ladies. And if you knew that or not,
Speaker 3: or lighting farts whatever, very beaves and budhead, I understand it.
Speaker 3: But what's gonna happen is people are gonna get this
Speaker 3: thing and go You're only farting one hundred and seventy
Speaker 3: one hundred and seventy five times a day here, old
Speaker 3: midel design. You watch this, and then people will try
Speaker 3: to eat more stuff, and eventually it's going to turn
Speaker 3: into like a different version of the Fourth of July
Speaker 3: hot dog eating contest at Coney Island, you know, the
Speaker 3: Nathan's hot Dog. How many can you how many? Okay,
Speaker 3: here you go in ten minutes, how much can you fart?
Speaker 3: That's what's gonna happen. It's gonna be sponsored by that.
Speaker 3: I'm telling you because we're Americans, and especially American men.
Speaker 2: This is what we do.
Speaker 3: We take something like this designed to help the human
Speaker 3: condition and we exploit it.
Speaker 2: Into a game.
Speaker 3: It becomes a game show sloany seven hundred wobody since
Speaker 3: anat do.
Speaker 2: You want to be in Amernican?
Speaker 3: He's got a flow show on the big one seven
Speaker 3: hundred W LW. So parents and grandparents lived longer, and
Speaker 3: one of the biggest challenges we face as kids and
Speaker 3: grandkids is protecting them from abuse. And if they're around
Speaker 3: us on a daily basis, it's much easier. But how
Speaker 3: do you do that when the people who you entrust
Speaker 3: to care for their daily needs are the ones doing
Speaker 3: the abuse. For example, today, there's a story out just
Speaker 3: a couple of days old here former nursing home employee
Speaker 3: in Goshen Charge was stealing more than three hundred thousand
Speaker 3: dollars from residence under her care over a number of years.
Speaker 2: Then there's also this may have seen this story recently.
Speaker 3: Eighty four year old Robert Meyer was I think living
Speaker 3: for a couple months at Forest Hills Healthcare Center. He
Speaker 3: has then transferred because he's dying, to the Margaret Thomas
Speaker 3: Hospice of Solving Blue Ash and then he dies and
Speaker 3: he's buried. He was later exhumed by the coroner because
Speaker 3: an investigation proved he was murdered and upon examination of
Speaker 3: the body, the cause of death as a homicide from
Speaker 3: physical elder abuse. It is an incredible story. Jeffrey Heller
Speaker 3: is an attorney with Nuremberg, Paris, Helen McCarthy and Cleveland. Jeffrey,
Speaker 3: Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: How are you.
Speaker 7: I'm doing well, good morning, Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the narrative there, and it's it's it's almost
Speaker 3: like a dateline kind of case. You know, it's something
Speaker 3: you'd watch on NBC. I don't make light of it.
Speaker 3: But wait, he died and then they how the hell
Speaker 3: does that happen that they bury the man and then
Speaker 3: exhumed the body because of an investigation and it's determined
Speaker 3: that he was well, he was murdered in that case,
Speaker 3: and you also have to understand wonder who saw the
Speaker 3: body and allowed that to occur. So walk us through
Speaker 3: the timeline here. I know it was his daughter who
Speaker 3: first noticed the strangulation marks, the ligature marks around his neck.
Speaker 3: And what kind of responses does she get from each
Speaker 3: facility because his custody care was transfers that there's a chain,
Speaker 3: it's not just one place it's at least a couple.
Speaker 2: Can you take me through that?
Speaker 7: That's right. This is one of the most wild stories
Speaker 7: I've ever seen her been involved with, and I've been
Speaker 7: doing this virtually my entire career. But mister Meyer was
Speaker 7: eighty four years old, he had three children, four grandchildren.
Speaker 7: He had three brothers, several of them lived in the area.
Speaker 7: He gets admitted to Forest Hills Health Care Centers in
Speaker 7: Cincinnati in July of twenty twenty five because he's eighty
Speaker 7: four and he has some health conditions that prevent him
Speaker 7: from living alone, which he was doing, and in about
Speaker 7: two months into his stay, he starts complaining of being hurt.
Speaker 7: Now keep in mind he's eighty four years old. His
Speaker 7: communication isn't great, but he actually calls nine to one
Speaker 7: one from the facility because of how he was feeling,
Speaker 7: and in fact, he's sent to a hospital in July
Speaker 7: August time frame. Nothing is found at that point in time,
Speaker 7: so he sent back to this Forest Hills Healthcare and
Speaker 7: in early September he starts exhibiting signs of trauma to
Speaker 7: his neck and actually his body, but mostly his neck.
Speaker 7: And his daughter, obviously, who visits him regularly, saw these
Speaker 7: marks started telling staff something's wrong, and their response was,
Speaker 7: this is normal. This is what happens as you're older
Speaker 7: and dying.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 7: And so she smartly documents this and takes photographs. But
Speaker 7: exactly as you said, he's then transferred out of the
Speaker 7: nursing home into a hospice center, where he dies within
Speaker 7: a couple of days. Now keep in mind, and it's
Speaker 7: really important, nurses and doctors in Ohio must this is
Speaker 7: an optional. They must notify the corner if there are
Speaker 7: signs of physical abuse or criminal activity related to someone
Speaker 7: passing away. So this poor man had evidence of that
Speaker 7: at the nursing home. Then he goes to hospice where
Speaker 7: there's obviously a hospice doctor overseeing all the patients there,
Speaker 7: and then he ultimately passes and is sent to a
Speaker 7: funeral home. And at this point his daughter is she
Speaker 7: doesn't know what else to do. She keeps being told
Speaker 7: that this is normal, and they you know this, These
Speaker 7: are these are people you know, with with medically speaking,
Speaker 7: a lot of power. There's a there's a big power
Speaker 7: disparity between these facilities and patients, especially patients like Robert
Speaker 7: Meyer and and you know, really his daughter who have
Speaker 7: no medical training whatsoever, and she is being told repeatedly
Speaker 7: this is normal. Unfortunately, your father is sick and he's dying.
Speaker 3: He said, you mentioned it, called nine to one number
Speaker 3: of times. What was the police report? Did they not
Speaker 3: see the strangulation the ligature marks.
Speaker 6: On his neck?
Speaker 7: So when he he was able to get transferred to
Speaker 7: the hospital without police involvement. So he's taken and this
Speaker 7: is what we believe is before there's any bruising to
Speaker 7: his neck. So one of the things that the police
Speaker 7: are doing right now is investigating. You know how early
Speaker 7: this happened. We know that the because we have photographic
Speaker 7: evidence of this. We know that the bruising appeared on
Speaker 7: his neck much closer to death. So we're talking early
Speaker 7: September is really when the real serious evidence presented. He
Speaker 7: had been calling, he had called nine one one and
Speaker 7: been transferred to the ho hospital before that. We don't
Speaker 7: know exactly how much prior to September early September that
Speaker 7: that happened, but he was seen at the hospital. The
Speaker 7: neck bruising was not there. And I don't want to
Speaker 7: make assumptions about the ability to find certain types of
Speaker 7: injuries even on X ray, but long story short, he
Speaker 7: was returned back to the facility after, you know, from
Speaker 7: the hospital.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jeffrey Heller's here is an attorney in Cleveland, and
Speaker 3: he's representing the estate of a man who was well
Speaker 3: only thought he had died of what they called protein
Speaker 3: deficient malnutrition, which happens in elderly patients. He was in hospice,
Speaker 3: but because of the persistence of the daughter and the
Speaker 3: family in particular, they exhumed his body and found out
Speaker 3: that he was murdered by the same people who are
Speaker 3: entrusted to care for him right here in Cincinnati, namely
Speaker 3: Forest Hill's Healthcare Center and then the Margaret Thomas Hospice
Speaker 3: of Facility and Blue Ash. The assault allegedly occurred over
Speaker 3: what a ten day period, I believe is what the
Speaker 3: brief said. Does the evidence suggest a single incident, this
Speaker 3: is ongoing abuse?
Speaker 7: Then well, the strength, I mean, what we're referring to
Speaker 7: as strangulation marks a really significant. Yeah. But we we
Speaker 7: at least at this point in time, we can't say
Speaker 7: whether it was one incident or multiple incidents, but we
Speaker 7: do know that he was complaining of being hurt at
Speaker 7: least several weeks before the marks appeared.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the hard part about that for investigators, and I'm
Speaker 3: sure this this comes out too, is that you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes an elderly patient, especially ones in the later stages
Speaker 3: of life, will complain about things and because of drugs,
Speaker 3: because of your condition, and you can write that up
Speaker 3: as well, you know, drug induced or late stage life
Speaker 3: induced hallucinations. You know, my mom went through something like
Speaker 3: that when she was dying of cancer. I thought that
Speaker 3: the nurses were there and the one had green laser
Speaker 3: eyes were coming in to hurt her. And I thought, well, Mom,
Speaker 3: no one has laser eyes. But you know, you hear
Speaker 3: that enough and then there's confirmation bias there. So that
Speaker 3: may be a factor. It doesn't excuse this, but it
Speaker 3: may put into context what's going on here. But you know,
Speaker 3: when you look at those people who are entrusted with
Speaker 3: his care. You got a nursing home, you got hospice facility,
Speaker 3: you have a funeral home. How many people saw mister
Speaker 3: Meyer in that state and how many people did he
Speaker 3: have to see and how many people fail to act here?
Speaker 7: Unfortunately all of them. I mean, we have photos with
Speaker 7: timestamps on them that are from when he was at
Speaker 7: the nursing home, when he was at hospice, and then
Speaker 7: when he died, So all three of those facilities were aware.
Speaker 7: They all have a duty under ohiolat to notify the
Speaker 7: corner to have an autopsy performed or at least a
Speaker 7: gross examination. And Scott, you hit the nail on the
Speaker 7: head is the police were provided these photographs after he
Speaker 7: had already been buried by the funeral home. At that point,
Speaker 7: obviously they're well behind the eight ball in doing an investigation.
Speaker 7: And so that's part of the reason why these facilities
Speaker 7: are required by law to notify authorities, because what happens
Speaker 7: in that time frame between him being buried, being dug up,
Speaker 7: the autopsy being corrected, and then an investigation beginning, I mean,
Speaker 7: God forbid, someone who did this is still out there, right.
Speaker 3: And that's the point, Jeffrey, is what's the status I'm
Speaker 3: guessing hamilin kind of shriffes involved here, what's the status
Speaker 3: of that investigation? Do they have suspects or are there
Speaker 3: people under scrutiny?
Speaker 2: Do we know.
Speaker 7: They're diligently pursuing this case. We are in constant contact
Speaker 7: with them. They're doing everything that they possibly can, and
Speaker 7: we really appreciate everything that they're doing, obviously, but after
Speaker 7: something like this happens, there's obviously not a big tendency
Speaker 7: to be forthcoming with the police. I mean, this is
Speaker 7: clearly a criminal investigation. I mean, truthfully, any suspect his
Speaker 7: a right to remain silent, and obviously the nursing facility,
Speaker 7: you know, we assume, is doing their own investigation and
Speaker 7: they want to complete that before they're going to disclose things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is is going to be adjudicated in court.
Speaker 3: So yeah, the lawyers are talking to the lawyers, whose
Speaker 3: lawyers are talking to our lawyers. I get that, and
Speaker 3: that's how the world works here in America. I gets
Speaker 3: The obvious question for those of us here in the
Speaker 3: cheap seats is how does a hospice doctor, because somebody
Speaker 3: has to sign that that certificate, how do they miss.
Speaker 7: That it's signed by We know who the doctor is.
Speaker 7: And absolutely that's essentially the last line of defense for
Speaker 7: this family. I mean, that's the last person who should
Speaker 7: have reported this, and we're looking forward to speaking with
Speaker 7: them and figuring out why he made the decisions that
Speaker 7: he made. I mean, without a doubt, the evidence is clear,
Speaker 7: and at worst, you notify the corner, an autopsy is
Speaker 7: done and no foul play is determined, Yeah, or foul
Speaker 7: plays ruled out completely. So there's really no excuse for
Speaker 7: not contacting the corner. And he's just one of several
Speaker 7: doctors and nurses are obligated as well, So he's just
Speaker 7: one of several doctors and nurses and saw mister Meyer
Speaker 7: and that.
Speaker 2: And here he is.
Speaker 3: He's eighty four years, end of life and he's going
Speaker 3: through you know, he knows he's probably not getting out
Speaker 3: healthcare center. They transferred to h to hospice, and hospits
Speaker 3: only have a one way door. They don't have an exit.
Speaker 3: They have an entrance and that's it. There's only one
Speaker 3: way out, and you kind of know that's coming.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And and I guess to be treated and dismissing this
Speaker 3: fashion is extremely disturbing.
Speaker 8: Uh.
Speaker 3: And the investigation will continue, hopefully justice will come out
Speaker 3: for the family. In your research, Jeffrey, and you're a lawyer,
Speaker 3: you're not a doctor or a physician. How unusual is
Speaker 3: it for a body to being zoomed based on well
Speaker 3: family photographs? And what does that tell us about the
Speaker 3: strength of evidence?
Speaker 7: I mean, this, this is the first time in my
Speaker 7: law firms one hundred year history that this has happened.
Speaker 7: So none of us have ever seen it happen. None
Speaker 7: of our colleagues, year after year, I've ever seen this happen.
Speaker 7: This is incredibly unusual. But it speaks to how serious
Speaker 7: this is and how concerned really the authorities are about
Speaker 7: what happened and making sure that they find out what happened,
Speaker 7: and like we were talking about before, prevent this from
Speaker 7: happening to someone else. But this is this is incredibly
Speaker 7: unusual and really does not happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Chris, what's a specific legal standard in Ohio
Speaker 3: it's required for these facilities to report these things to
Speaker 3: the corner Because you it sounds like you believe that
Speaker 3: there was a cover up here.
Speaker 7: There's a there's a law. You know, not many things
Speaker 7: are black and white, but in Ohio, there's a law
Speaker 7: that specifically obligates doctors and nurses for multiple reasons. I mean,
Speaker 7: I'm just giving you this specific as to this case.
Speaker 7: I mean, obviously, cases involving children are high up on
Speaker 7: the list of mandatory reporting to corners, but in this situation,
Speaker 7: doctors and nurses shell there, meaning there's no sns or
Speaker 7: butts about it. They shall notify the corner if there's
Speaker 7: signs of abuse or its completely separate criminal activity, and
Speaker 7: here we have both of those. So there are very
Speaker 7: few laws that are as direct as this law is
Speaker 7: regarding the obligations of doctors and nurses to notify the corner.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And it's telling too because the initial dust certificate will
Speaker 3: was listed as protein cavalie mal Let me try that again,
Speaker 3: protein cavalie malnutrition, which basically means you know, you're not
Speaker 3: getting the food in. That's very very common at end
Speaker 3: of life, just not beating. But yet upon the body
Speaker 3: being exhumed and the investigation shows, well, that wasn't the
Speaker 3: cause of death. It was physical elder abuse and a
Speaker 3: contributing factor was deaf by strangulation.
Speaker 2: That that's murder. Yep.
Speaker 7: The death certificate clearly says this is a homicide that's
Speaker 7: at the hands of another human being.
Speaker 3: And now we've got to find the person or persons
Speaker 3: responsible here. You, obviously, Jeff, are handling the civil litigation here.
Speaker 3: But what what criminal charges could potentially be filed here
Speaker 3: outside of homicide.
Speaker 7: Well there, I mean, there's a variety of charges within
Speaker 7: the homicide umbrella, including manslaughter, voluntary, involuntary and obviously aggravated murder.
Speaker 7: If this was pretty calculated, and you know, we rely
Speaker 7: on the police to do their investigation identify suspects. Generally,
Speaker 7: the process is to seek an indictment from a grand
Speaker 7: jury at that point, so the police will collect all
Speaker 7: the evidence that they have presented to the grand jury.
Speaker 7: The grand jury will be tasked with indicting the correct charges,
Speaker 7: but they will be on or under that.
Speaker 3: In addition to the healthcare center and the hospice facility,
Speaker 3: you also named a funeral home in this suit as well.
Speaker 7: Why well, I mean, there's a variety of harm that
Speaker 7: was caused to this family, to all them. We firmly
Speaker 7: believe that a funeral home, seeing a patient in the
Speaker 7: condition that mister Meyer was in, understands that burying someone
Speaker 7: without proper investigation is incredibly serious. His family has endured
Speaker 7: significant trauma because of what happened. The funeral home is
Speaker 7: not necessarily a healthcare provider. That's that's something that we
Speaker 7: will flesh out in a lawsuit. But it changes the
Speaker 7: possible remedies against a facility like that.
Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, because because I mean, in my mind Jeffrey
Speaker 3: and Plan. An armchair lawyer here, it's like, Okay, well
Speaker 3: they have the they have the person after they've they're deceased.
Speaker 3: Do they have access to the medical record cause death?
Speaker 3: Do they They're not investigating, They're just you know, getting
Speaker 3: the body prepared for burial and in viewing. So do
Speaker 3: they even have a hand in going, well, well, they're
Speaker 3: strangulation mark.
Speaker 2: Do they know how he died? Does that even factor in?
Speaker 7: Well, again, the photographs were evident to them as well.
Speaker 2: Sure, and.
Speaker 7: Whether the statute requiring certain providers to notify the corner,
Speaker 7: whether that applies to them is something that will have
Speaker 7: to be flushed out. But at a minimum, in the
Speaker 7: business of taking care of, you know, the end stage
Speaker 7: of life for individuals, and seeing that they're taking care
Speaker 7: of respectfully and with dignity, you would think it's incumbent
Speaker 7: on them to at least ask a question, maybe yeah,
Speaker 7: as to whether this has been investigated and ruled out
Speaker 7: or ruled in.
Speaker 3: So here's eighty for a Robert Meyer and his daughter, yes, family.
Speaker 3: What scares me about this is for those people who
Speaker 3: are indigen or those people who don't have loved ones
Speaker 3: around to be able to monitor their care and ask
Speaker 3: these questions. And it mays want to ask, if this
Speaker 3: happened to Robert Meyer, how many more cases like this
Speaker 3: are out there.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a shame that it's incumbent on family a
Speaker 7: lot of times to keep an eye on their loved one,
Speaker 7: which is difficult because loved ones don't always live in
Speaker 7: the same vicinity. Yeah, you know, they're out of state
Speaker 7: and whatnot, and you know, it really is a shame.
Speaker 7: But I would encourage any family member to keep in
Speaker 7: touch with their loved one, keep in touch with the facility. Obviously,
Speaker 7: if you see something or hear something from your loved
Speaker 7: one that's concerning, you have the absolute right to request
Speaker 7: a meeting with the care team for your loved one.
Speaker 7: They cannot say no to that. So if you have
Speaker 7: any any concerns, you should absolutely have for a care conference.
Speaker 7: They call it. And then also the government, the Ohio
Speaker 7: Department of hell Overseas nursing facilities, and they actually do
Speaker 7: an incredible job. If they're contacted about a concern, for example,
Speaker 7: if you're out of state, they will almost always contact
Speaker 7: the facility and at least initiate a request to look
Speaker 7: into a loved.
Speaker 3: One good now because we're all living longer, and this
Speaker 3: is the downside of that for sure. Jeff Heller is
Speaker 3: an attorney in Nuremberg, Paris. Heller McCarthy in Cleveland is
Speaker 3: handling the case of Robert Meyer, certainly one of the
Speaker 3: more interesting ones and one of the more unbelievable stories
Speaker 3: that you'll ever hear.
Speaker 2: And I'll hold on your number, Jeff.
Speaker 3: I'll reach back out as a story unravels, because there's
Speaker 3: going to be a lot more. I guess things to
Speaker 3: drop in this case as it moves forward, but I'd
Speaker 3: love to have you back at some point.
Speaker 7: Absolutely. I really appreciate it and I look forward to
Speaker 7: speaking with you again.
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, we live longer and there's unforeseen dangers out
Speaker 3: there like this. We'll talk your wallet up next. Took
Speaker 3: it in the shorts yesterday. Actually we found out. Today's
Speaker 3: going to Andy Schaeffer from Simply Money and all Worth
Speaker 3: Financial Belt. Why we had that big dip yesterday, Ai
Speaker 3: and terrists more to follow seven hundred w Golde.
Speaker 2: Time to talk.
Speaker 1: About money, how to make it, how to keep it,
Speaker 1: and how to keep others off your stash. This is
Speaker 1: all Worth advice with Andy Schaeffer, Andy, good morning.
Speaker 2: How's life Scott? Life couldn't be better? All right? We'll
Speaker 2: see about that.
Speaker 3: The Dow was down eight hundred points plus yesterday, took
Speaker 3: it in the shorts. It looks like it's rebounding today.
Speaker 3: But then again, we have State of the Union tonight,
Speaker 3: So the President could say something that could cause the
Speaker 3: market to go up a thousand points or down five
Speaker 3: hundred points tomorrow. We don't know at this point. I
Speaker 3: think a couple of things working here. Most people think
Speaker 3: it was a tariff seal, but it was also AI.
Speaker 3: I want to get to that in a second, but
Speaker 3: let's start with the tariffs and the President after the
Speaker 3: Supreme Court ruling saying well, we're going to move forward
Speaker 3: anyway with ten percent now immediately tonight, and it's going
Speaker 3: to go up to fifteen at some point. Take us
Speaker 3: through what that looks like for the market and if
Speaker 3: that's even doable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can, I can do that.
Speaker 9: I think you know that's on most investors' minds is
Speaker 9: how does the tariffs impact the markets, the economy. The
Speaker 9: ruling by the judicial branch, all of that is the
Speaker 9: Supreme Court. So essentially the Supreme Court ruled that Trump
Speaker 9: cannot use the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. He calls
Speaker 9: it AIPA. I love a good acronym, you know, And
Speaker 9: the path now is basically was ruled unconstitutional. You have
Speaker 9: to understand how the different branches of government works. So
Speaker 9: you know, we have to go back to sixth grade
Speaker 9: civics to understand that the legislative branch, which is primarily Congress,
Speaker 9: is responsible for making the laws. The executive branch, the president,
Speaker 9: is responsible for enforcing or carrying out the laws.
Speaker 2: The judicial branch interpose the laws.
Speaker 9: And basically what the judicial branch has said the Supreme
Speaker 9: Court effectively is that Donald Trump can't do this. And
Speaker 9: he was citing the fact that, hey, this is an emergency.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 9: The reasons that I'm using these terriffs are to prevent
Speaker 9: fentanyl from coming into the United States and also by
Speaker 9: making sure that we have leverage against you know, a
Speaker 9: lot of our international foes. And you know, basically, what
Speaker 9: the judicial branch said is no, no, no, no, you
Speaker 9: can't do that. This is what Congress is for. Congress
Speaker 9: needs to make these laws. This is part of Article one,
Speaker 9: you know, of the Constitution. This is unconstitutional and Essentially,
Speaker 9: the markets responded and said, oh, no, what are we
Speaker 9: going to do?
Speaker 2: How do we pay these back? What does this look like?
Speaker 9: It's scary and it becomes you know, more uncertainty for
Speaker 9: the investor in general because it's so complicated and we
Speaker 9: really don't know what the fallout is. Well, you know,
Speaker 9: as we kind of uncover and look into the legal
Speaker 9: abilities of the executive branch, particularly Donald Trump, we found
Speaker 9: that well, he has other methods that he can use
Speaker 9: to use terrorists on these other countries as well.
Speaker 2: Uh one, Article T one.
Speaker 9: Twenty two, two thirty two, et cetera, which allows him
Speaker 9: to have these powers, which effectively means that, yes, we
Speaker 9: can put tariffs on other countries in different ways. It's
Speaker 9: just a little bit more cumbersome, but it can be done.
Speaker 9: And so I don't think it's going to have a
Speaker 9: major impact on the markets. I know yesterday Marcus felt
Speaker 9: quite a bit, but I think that had largely to
Speaker 9: do with the uncertainty of how these teriffs play out.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's the tariff element, and also we have now
Speaker 3: the refund element of that too. Some one hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty billion dollars, yeah, is what we collected in tariffs,
Speaker 3: and now companies are lined up to get that money
Speaker 3: back because of the Supreme Court ruling. FedEx, for example,
Speaker 3: filed suit yesterday in the Court of International Trade after
Speaker 3: that decision. They said they want the refund duties collected
Speaker 3: from the company and all entries subject to tariffs under LIPA.
Speaker 3: And so you've got countless companies, big and otherwise that
Speaker 3: are part of this too. How do you sort that out?
Speaker 3: And what impact does that have in the economy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean it could take years.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 9: Senate Democrats basically announced legislation yesterday that will require full
Speaker 9: refunds with interest, you know, at the sum of about
Speaker 9: one hundred and seventy five billion dollars. And so you know,
Speaker 9: you have all this money that was collected by the
Speaker 9: emergency terriffs i EVA tariffs or whatever. So those refunds
Speaker 9: will be issued to businesses that pay the import duties,
Speaker 9: you know business cause could pass some on to the
Speaker 9: benefit of the consumers by lowering prices. But this will
Speaker 9: take years to you know, really kind of play out.
Speaker 9: And from an economic standpoint, you had a lot of
Speaker 9: FED speakers that basically said, you know, we're not even
Speaker 9: really looking at this. We're more looking at what what
Speaker 9: jobs and what the labor market is telling us, and
Speaker 9: what inflation data tells us, because this is really kind
Speaker 9: of you know nothing.
Speaker 2: As far as they're concerned.
Speaker 9: You know this, this will be carried out over time,
Speaker 9: and our economy is so robust that it probably won't
Speaker 9: have a major impact, not only to businesses. Maybe they
Speaker 9: do see some sort of refund, but it's not like
Speaker 9: the consumers are going to get you know, the benefit
Speaker 9: of this. Maybe eventually lower prices, but it's not going
Speaker 9: to be anything that's significant.
Speaker 3: All right, And people heard this and what a lots
Speaker 3: of Trump tariffs is why the market went down with
Speaker 3: the ruling and everything else. Now there was something else
Speaker 3: in there too, and it had to do with AI.
Speaker 3: There's a viral report that came out that tapped into
Speaker 3: a new strain of fears about AI. And it's a
Speaker 3: pretty bleak future in which technological change inspires a race
Speaker 3: to the bottom and white collar the industry. So what
Speaker 3: we know between our ears is going to be replaced
Speaker 3: by AI. There's concerns over people are scaling this up.
Speaker 3: Just don't have any money left they spent out already,
Speaker 3: and there's disruption all over the place. They call it
Speaker 3: a global intelligence crisis that's about to hit here. So
Speaker 3: what if AI is so bullish of the economy, it
Speaker 3: actually is bearished.
Speaker 2: That's what this sounds like.
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, there was an interesting piece that was
Speaker 9: co authored by a research department and basically they're a
Speaker 9: managing partner of a tech company, and it was basically
Speaker 9: kind of a look back and to see what this AI,
Speaker 9: you know, revolution looks like. And I think what people
Speaker 9: were really fearful about is, well, we've gained all of
Speaker 9: this momentum from AI. We've all benefited from the stock
Speaker 9: prices of AI that have increased over time, and we
Speaker 9: see this valuation that is super inflated because you know
Speaker 9: what we are when we're buying AI, we're anticipating that
Speaker 9: the production and the profitability will increase over time and
Speaker 9: in the future. Well, when you have significant pe ratios,
Speaker 9: which means that the price is higher than what the
Speaker 9: earnings potential is, you have a potential for a bubble.
Speaker 9: And that's the major fear here and it's going to continue.
Speaker 9: We're going to be talking about this Scott for the
Speaker 9: next two to three years until this all shakes out
Speaker 9: we figure out what AI is actually going to do
Speaker 9: from a profitability standpoint.
Speaker 2: But here's what I do now.
Speaker 9: I know that if you're a business owner or if
Speaker 9: you're an employee, we are using AI more and more
Speaker 9: every day. I see it with the job, I see
Speaker 9: it within our business. I was talking to some friends
Speaker 9: the other day and some clients that use AI to
Speaker 9: plan their vacations. So it's here and we have to
Speaker 9: understand how to use it, and I think you have
Speaker 9: to adapt. In my opinion, I'm more bullish on AI
Speaker 9: than I think a lot of fearful investors are currently.
Speaker 9: I think that as we move into the future, AI
Speaker 9: is going to be more a part of our daily lives.
Speaker 9: We'll see how it affects employment and in how it
Speaker 9: affects businesses. But I think we will adapt just like
Speaker 9: we did during the Industrial Revolution, just like we did
Speaker 9: in the early two thousands, absolutely to the internet, and
Speaker 9: so I think it's here to stay. I'm not as
Speaker 9: fearful as some economists might be. I think it's a
Speaker 9: good place to be invested, and I think you should
Speaker 9: still should have that as a piece of your portfolio.
Speaker 3: Not only with every time we've had a disruption like this.
Speaker 3: An AI's a massive disrupt could be the mad biggest
Speaker 3: disruptor of our lives. Yeah, it's going to take a
Speaker 3: lot of jobs, but it's also going to produce a
Speaker 3: lot of jobs that aren't even jobs yet.
Speaker 2: That's what we always forget.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I think as we move forward into the future,
Speaker 9: technology is going to be a bigger player there, right.
Speaker 9: You know, back in the early nineteen hundreds, we were
Speaker 9: more of a manufacturing type of society. That's what really
Speaker 9: drove our economy. Twenty percent of our economy was manufacturing,
Speaker 9: only thirty percent with services. That has recently flipped since
Speaker 9: the nineteen seventies and eighties. We are now seventy percent
Speaker 9: more of a services industry, only thirty percent manufacturing. And
Speaker 9: as we move into the future, most of our future
Speaker 9: is going to be technology.
Speaker 2: I like technology. I like my Apple phone.
Speaker 9: It tells me how to get places, it helps me
Speaker 9: order food, it gives me reservations. And I think that
Speaker 9: as you continue to use technology and you start to
Speaker 9: realize what AI is all about and utilize that in
Speaker 9: your everyday life, you're going to understand it makes our
Speaker 9: lives a lot easier.
Speaker 2: So it's not going anywhere, and it does make us
Speaker 2: more productive.
Speaker 9: The things that I can get done by using AI
Speaker 9: opens up my day to a lot more productivity. And
Speaker 9: I use it, you know, literally every day, and I
Speaker 9: think most workers will as well. Now is that going
Speaker 9: to eliminate my job in the future, I don't think so.
Speaker 9: I think you're an emotional component of people in general
Speaker 9: that want to interact with other individuals as opposed to
Speaker 9: relying on AI. And we're still not fully aware of
Speaker 9: the factual basis of AI and how accurate it can be.
Speaker 9: There is some fear there as well, but as more
Speaker 9: and more people use it, I think they'll realize that
Speaker 9: it becomes, you know, a useful tool not only from
Speaker 9: an employment standpoint, but also within our everyday loss.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and finally too, these two things tied together with
Speaker 3: our old front inflation here too and the inflation outlook right.
Speaker 3: And it's kind of hard too, because you know, we
Speaker 3: we had this many government shutdown going on yet again,
Speaker 3: and to try and get all these numbers together is
Speaker 3: rather difficult. But I know, inflation from from an inflation standpoint,
Speaker 3: when it's AI, but a special to teariffs, where do
Speaker 3: we stand?
Speaker 9: Well, you know, what we saw towards the end of
Speaker 9: last year was that our growth was a lot weaker
Speaker 9: than what we thought, and I think a lot of
Speaker 9: that has to do with the government shutdown. When we
Speaker 9: look at inflation, it is trending lower. When you take
Speaker 9: out a lot of the external costs like exports, imports
Speaker 9: and those types of things, those are violable categories that
Speaker 9: don't really represent the underlying economic trend. Core GDP is
Speaker 9: a healthy two point four percent. That is in line
Speaker 9: with the range over the past three years. And so
Speaker 9: when we look at moving forward and hopefully these government
Speaker 9: shutdowns start to minimize a little bit, and who knows,
Speaker 9: you know, Congress loves to shut down and go on
Speaker 9: vacation and do those types of things, I think the
Speaker 9: economy is in pretty good, pretty good shape. When the
Speaker 9: Fed meets, we're going to get a ton of FED
Speaker 9: speakers this week. I think that it's not likely that
Speaker 9: we see another cut, and probably until June, I think
Speaker 9: is the next most likely cut. But we'll see how
Speaker 9: it goes. We'll see what the Fed members have to
Speaker 9: say this week. But I think generally we're kind of
Speaker 9: in a Goalilock's phase right now, where unemployment is fairly
Speaker 9: reasonably low. And also I think that inflation is trending
Speaker 9: the way that the Fed wants. And I don't think
Speaker 9: that tariffs are going to have a major impact on you.
Speaker 3: I know, the jobless claims ticked up a little bit.
Speaker 3: Is that just like seasonal or weather? What is it both?
Speaker 9: I think it is influenced by seasonal adjustments, you know,
Speaker 9: usually the winner we start to see that increase a
Speaker 9: little little bit, you know, really right now, what we're
Speaker 9: seeing is that if you're out of a job, it's
Speaker 9: a little bit harder to find a job. But most
Speaker 9: of mostly, I think that employment is fairly stable. If
Speaker 9: you have a job, you're more likely to keep it
Speaker 9: than lose it.
Speaker 3: Okay, Andy Schaeffer from all Worth Financial and the Simple
Speaker 3: Money Show that airs at six on fifty five KRC,
Speaker 3: A little weekly tune up with your money. The President's
Speaker 3: going to speak at the State of the Union tonight tonight,
Speaker 3: tonight tonight. In typical Trump fashion, usually he drops a
Speaker 3: bomb no one's expecting, or says something away.
Speaker 2: What did he just say?
Speaker 3: As someone who follows the markets and has to calm
Speaker 3: down nervous investors, do you anticipate tonight's State of the Union.
Speaker 3: You're prepared for an early day tomorrow. I just you know,
Speaker 3: we've seen this before where he says something, Oh, we
Speaker 3: didn't see that coming in everyone starts flipping out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 9: My clients typically know and anticipate, you know, really what
Speaker 9: I'm going to say, So anytime I get an email
Speaker 9: or a phone call, they usually say, you know, Andy,
Speaker 9: I think I know what you're going to say, but
Speaker 9: I just need to ask it anyway. And essentially, the
Speaker 9: markets have kind of already adjusted the bluster from Donald
Speaker 9: Trump and the potential for him to say something funny tonight.
Speaker 9: So my clients are already prepared for volatility. You know,
Speaker 9: I've told all of them, you know, leading into this year.
Speaker 9: You know, don't be surprised if we see a pullback.
Speaker 9: It's likely to happen. But in an expanding economy, any
Speaker 9: type of pullback that we see is going to be
Speaker 9: short lived, so we don't really flinch at that.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 9: Ultimately, what we're focused on is recession risk probability, and
Speaker 9: that's very low at this time. So if you do
Speaker 9: see a pullback, don't be alarmed, it's likely due to
Speaker 9: investor irrational behavior, a reaction to headlines, and that's not
Speaker 9: something that we try to get tied up into. It
Speaker 9: just is not that important and it's very short lived. Okay,
Speaker 9: week ahead, what are we looking at? Well, we have
Speaker 9: a pretty quiet week this week. I think the most
Speaker 9: important thing is the producer price index on Friday. That
Speaker 9: usually gives us an idea of how inflation looks from
Speaker 9: the consumer standpoint. It's almost forecasting, you know what the
Speaker 9: consumer looks like from an inflation price point portfolio. And
Speaker 9: we also are going to have a number of FED
Speaker 9: speakers this week. They like to talk, they like to
Speaker 9: tell us what they think, so I'll be keeping a
Speaker 9: close eye on that.
Speaker 3: Well, all right, fair enough, Andy Schaeffer, Simply Money and
Speaker 3: all Worth Financial.
Speaker 2: Thanks again, brother, appreciate it. Okay, Scott, talking to you.
Speaker 2: Talk next week.
Speaker 3: And of course the all Worth team does Simply Money
Speaker 3: tonight at six on fifty five KRC.
Speaker 2: Always check your wallet every Tuesday morn. I don't know why.
Speaker 3: Tuesday feels like Monday would be depressing, Wednesday feels like eh, Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Seems like a good day for this.
Speaker 3: Actually, most people check their fur own case Monday Tuesday.
Speaker 3: So if you take a peek at that, yeah, it's
Speaker 3: going to be a bad day for you. Said no,
Speaker 3: look at it's get a waitful tomorrow. Wait, don't we
Speaker 3: give it a week? Relax, relax like getting on the
Speaker 3: scale every day. You shouldn't do it. Willy is on
Speaker 3: the way after news update coming up top of the hour.
Speaker 3: We got the weather whiplash effect going on. We got snow,
Speaker 3: we got warm, we got snow coming back in and
Speaker 3: then warm again. We'll wrap that up for you in
Speaker 3: a nice little bow. And as I said, Willie at
Speaker 3: the twelve oh six to day here on the Home
Speaker 3: of the reds back at it against Kansas City today.
Speaker 3: That's over on I believe ESPN or now I think
Speaker 3: that's on thirteen sixty. I believe, I believe Scott Sloan show.
Speaker 3: I'm the Home of the Red seven hundred WWT, Cincinnati,