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Speaker 1: It's night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,

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Speaker 1: Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: All right, thank you very much, as we move into

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Speaker 2: our nine o'clock hour here on night Side, it is

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Speaker 2: a nine to seven and we are joined tonight by

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Speaker 2: William Martin. Bill Martin and just an extraordinary individual, someone

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Speaker 2: who I think most of you know, but for those

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Speaker 2: of you who don't, you probably have read some of

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Speaker 2: his books, Back Bay, Rising of the Moon, Cape Caught, Annapolis,

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Speaker 2: Harvard Yard, Lost Constitution, City of Dreams, The Lincoln Letter,

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Speaker 2: Bound for Gold, many of them set here in New England,

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Speaker 2: novels that are historical novels, and his latest December forty one.

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Speaker 2: William Martin, Welcome back to Nightside. How are you tonight, sir?

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Speaker 2: Couldn't be better. The truth is that Bill Martin was

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Speaker 2: with us in late December and there was some breaking

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Speaker 2: news that night. It was the week after the shooting

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Speaker 2: at Brown University that took the lives of two students

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Speaker 2: and wounded nine others, and also a shooting that had

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Speaker 2: occurred on Monday night that took the life of a

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Speaker 2: m I T. Professor, and there was a manhunt on

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Speaker 2: for the shooter who was discovered that night inside a

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Speaker 2: storage locker up in New Hampshire, and there was all

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Speaker 2: sorts of we ended we had to cut shorter our

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Speaker 2: interview with Bill Martin. I promised him a mulligan, and

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Speaker 2: we are back at it tonight. Bill Martin, you're a Yes,

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Speaker 2: I am a man of my word. But it's delightful

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Speaker 2: to bring you back. I know my audience wants to

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Speaker 2: talk with you. That night, I was very pleased by

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Speaker 2: the number of people who want to call and ask

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Speaker 2: a question. The books that you've written, many of them

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Speaker 2: New England based. You're a New England based guy. There

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Speaker 2: may be some in my audience who are unfamiliar with

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Speaker 2: your background, but you have a life story that began

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Speaker 2: right here locally. I took you to a local high school,

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Speaker 2: a small local college across the river, and then you

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Speaker 2: will going to become a writer in Hollywood. And just

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Speaker 2: just go through your background a little bit, because I

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Speaker 2: think that too many people will say, Okay, we know

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Speaker 2: him as who he has become, but we don't know

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Speaker 2: who him as who he was.

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Speaker 3: Well, I went to Catholic Memorial High School and they

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Speaker 3: taught me a lot, and then I went to Harvard

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Speaker 3: and decided that I wanted to go to film school.

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Speaker 3: After that graduate school in movies, I wanted to go

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Speaker 3: to Hollywood and become a movie director. My father said,

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Speaker 3: film school. I'd really rather see you go to law school.

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Speaker 3: But if you don't do what you want to do

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Speaker 3: when you're young, you'll spend the rest of your life

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Speaker 3: looking over your shoulder, which was good advice. So we

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Speaker 3: went to California, my young wife and I when we

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Speaker 3: were in our early twenties, and after I got a

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Speaker 3: degree at the USC Film School, which had recently graduated

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Speaker 3: people like George Lucas, and it wasn't I wasn't exactly

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Speaker 3: going to a school that nobody had ever heard of.

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Speaker 3: It was sort of the Harvard of film schools. But

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Speaker 3: I figured out that the way to get into the

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Speaker 3: movie business was to write a screenplay that somebody would

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Speaker 3: want to produce, and so I wrote a couple nobody

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Speaker 3: wanted to produce them, although the great legendary producer Hal

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Speaker 3: Wallace did give me a fellowship, the Hall Wallace Screenwriting Fellowship,

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Speaker 3: which got me the princely sum of twenty five hundred

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Speaker 3: dollars plus my name on the covers of Variety in

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Speaker 3: the Hollywood Reporter, which was pretty cool when I was

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Speaker 3: about twenty six years old, and that gave me enough

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Speaker 3: impetus to write another screenplay that nobody wanted to produce.

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Speaker 3: And then I said, oh, I have an idea set

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Speaker 3: in Boston about buried treasure beneath the streets of the

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Speaker 3: Back Bay. You know this area that was once all

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Speaker 3: marsh land and tide flat and then was covered over

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Speaker 3: by ten or twenty feet of sand and gravel that

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Speaker 3: was brought in from Needham. What if there was buried

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Speaker 3: treasure under there? And that book became Back Bay, which

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Speaker 3: was in nineteen eighty was something of a phenomenon. The

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Speaker 3: book was fourteen weeks on the New York Times bestseller list.

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Speaker 3: And Uh, I like to say that it meant that

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Speaker 3: I never had to have a real job again. And Uh, what.

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Speaker 2: Do you think what do you think was the magic

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Speaker 2: uh in that book?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 2: That that this really catapult catapulted you as an unknown

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Speaker 2: writer despite the prolific uh you know, writing of two

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Speaker 2: movie scripts, one of which came in handy to you

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Speaker 2: later in your career. What do you think the magic

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Speaker 2: about it was? Was it the idea? Was it the setting?

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Speaker 2: Was it I think it.

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Speaker 3: I think it was all of those things. I think

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Speaker 3: I think it was this clever idea, uh, a way

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Speaker 3: to tell the story of Boston, which is has always

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Speaker 3: been the story of u of landfill and of upheaval

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Speaker 3: and of you know, reimagining in the area and rebuilding it,

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Speaker 3: you know, like Scully Square into Government Center and so forth.

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Speaker 3: So I think that the people in this general area

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Speaker 3: were then and still are very interested in the history

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Speaker 3: of this area. And it was it was just a

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Speaker 3: great plot hook, the buried treasure beneath the streets of

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Speaker 3: a modern American city. And you know, the Boston Globe

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Speaker 3: did a wonderful piece about me on the Living Page,

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Speaker 3: across the whole top of the Living Page, the local

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Speaker 3: Boy makes Good, And that really ignited a lot of interest,

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Speaker 3: because then, and it's harder now, getting attention for a

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Speaker 3: first novel was all but impossible, and back Bay was

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Speaker 3: one of Somebody, one of the publicists at the time

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Speaker 3: did a little research and discovered that Back Bay was

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Speaker 3: one of only half a dozen first novels to make

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Speaker 3: the New York Times bestseller list in that whole decade

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Speaker 3: between nineteen seventy and nineteen eighty so I considered my

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Speaker 3: in retrospect, I consider myself very fortunate. At that time.

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Speaker 3: I didn't quite appreciate what a lightning strike that kind

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Speaker 3: of best slidom was. At the beginning of your career,

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Speaker 3: I had what I call then and what I think

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Speaker 3: anybody who was engaged in any of the arts needs,

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Speaker 3: which is called the arrogance of naive ta. You know,

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Speaker 3: don't tell me the odds, because I'm going to beat

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Speaker 3: the odds. And that sort of drove me with back Bay,

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Speaker 3: And I recognized as I was writing it that not

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Speaker 3: only had I had two challenges, two responsibilities. First, to

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Speaker 3: tell the best story that I can, to keep the

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Speaker 3: readers turning pages long after they should have gone to sleep.

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Speaker 3: And the other is to teach them something along the

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Speaker 3: way as well, teach them something about their history, about

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Speaker 3: their country, the traditions and the laws of the country,

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Speaker 3: and the spirit of the nation and so forth. And

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Speaker 3: that's those two, those two twin objectives have carried me

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Speaker 3: across all these years with every book that I've written.

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Speaker 2: Again, you know, every person who is successful in whatever

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Speaker 2: they do, they have sort of a north star that

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Speaker 2: they stay true to. So I have a question I've

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Speaker 2: never asked you before, and I've interviewed you many times

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Speaker 2: and hope to interview many more, interview you many more times.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that the timing of this of Back

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Speaker 2: Bay was providential? We had just celebrated the bi centennial.

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Speaker 2: Everybody was aware about how much of the revel UH

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Speaker 2: had had begun here in the greater Boston area. Do

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Speaker 2: you think that that the atmospherics were also right for you?

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's true.

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Speaker 2: You knows your idea was was UH was caused in

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Speaker 2: part by those atmospherics. Is there a relationship there? Do

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Speaker 2: you think?

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Speaker 3: Yes? I do, I do. I've never really thought thought

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Speaker 3: too much about that, but the proximity to the bi

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Speaker 3: centennial UH is well. One of the books that inspired

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Speaker 3: me to write this novel was a book by Gorvidal

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Speaker 3: called Burr, about the Revolution and his attempt to capture

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Speaker 3: some of the characters who who whom we know quite

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Speaker 3: well from history, but but who we get a somewhat

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Speaker 3: different perspective on in Burr. And I tried to do

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Speaker 3: a little bit of that in Back Bay. UH. And

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Speaker 3: you know, nineteen eighty was also the year of Boston.

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Speaker 3: Boston three hundred and I think that might have that

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Speaker 3: might have fired some interest in it as well. So

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Speaker 3: of these, all of these little bits of magic that

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Speaker 3: helped to fire the pot of public interest, all of

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Speaker 3: them are important because getting modern readers then, and as

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Speaker 3: I say, even more so today, getting them to come

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Speaker 3: to your book is a very challenging thing, particularly today

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Speaker 3: when you have fewer independent bookstores that will get behind

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Speaker 3: your book as a just as a matter of course,

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Speaker 3: because someone in the books do or really likes the book.

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Speaker 3: You have fewer independent bookstores, though the ones that we

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Speaker 3: have are terrific, and you have so many other things

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Speaker 3: competing for a person's leisure time, the Internet, more and

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Speaker 3: more channels of television. Everybody's looking at their phone all

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Speaker 3: the time. And as I say to some of my

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Speaker 3: other writer friends who are now veterans in this business,

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Speaker 3: we came along at the right time, and I think

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Speaker 3: it must be very hard for young people today trying

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Speaker 3: to get started and establish the kind of career that

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Speaker 3: has allowed me to write twelve novels and an award

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Speaker 3: winning PBS documentary and a cult classic horror movie across

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Speaker 3: all of these years. And I'll have at least one

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Speaker 3: more novel on the fiftieth anniversary year of back Day.

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Speaker 2: So well that that will that will be look looked

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Speaker 2: forward to by many, many people. And of course that

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Speaker 2: will be the four hundredth anniversary. You know you you.

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Speaker 3: Three to fifty, Boston three fifty, it will be well, no,

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Speaker 3: Boston sixteen thirty. No, you're right, yeah, you're right, yeah, right,

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Speaker 3: let me it.

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Speaker 2: Was three fifty. Where that's in the rearview mirror. This

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Speaker 2: is going to be Boston four hundred. So you're gonna.

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Speaker 3: You have to remember I got a's in English, but

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Speaker 3: not in mass.

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Speaker 2: Idn't get a's in either. My guess is William Martin.

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Speaker 2: We haven't even touched upon his book. The phone lines

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Speaker 2: have litten up, have lit up. We will get to

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Speaker 2: all of them. His latest book, December forty one. I

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Speaker 2: think it's especially important time from a time wise, because

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Speaker 2: all of us right now, or many of us, are thinking,

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Speaker 2: this is such a horrible time. The world is falling apart,

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Speaker 2: we're in strife, we are divided as a nation. And

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Speaker 2: you look back to what when we When we did

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Speaker 2: our interview last December, meaning a month ago, I was

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Speaker 2: comparing it from December of twenty twenty five, to what

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Speaker 2: it was like eighty six years prior, eighty four years

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Speaker 2: prior in December of forty one. So we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about that. We'll also get to callers, because I

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Speaker 2: think callers, just as our book buyers are important, callers

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Speaker 2: are important to you, my guest, and to me as

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Speaker 2: the talk show host. And we have Susan, Florence and Dennis,

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Speaker 2: and the only lines open right now are six one

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Speaker 2: seven seven, six, month, seven nine three one ten thirty.

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Speaker 2: The six one seven two five four to ten thirty

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Speaker 2: line that is full. So dial six one, seven, nine

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Speaker 2: three one, ten thirty, and we'll try to get you

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Speaker 2: in to talk with William Martin, the author of so

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Speaker 2: many great books, and most recently December forty one. Right

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Speaker 2: after this one night Side.

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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w Austin's News Radio.

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Speaker 2: We're talking with William Martin and his latest book, December

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Speaker 2: forty one. But Bill, what I want to do is

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Speaker 2: I want to work our calls in here. We're certainly

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Speaker 2: going to spend some time talking about December forty one,

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Speaker 2: but okay, I have a couple who have been on

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Speaker 2: here for a little bit. I want to try to

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Speaker 2: at least get one or two in before the break.

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Speaker 2: Susan in Milton, Susan, you were on with William Martin.

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Speaker 2: We're going to take you a little early, Susan, because

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Speaker 2: I don't want to have you hang on for a

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Speaker 2: long long time. Go right ahead, say hi to Bill Martin.

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Speaker 4: Okay, thank you, Hi William, and Hi Dan? How are you?

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Speaker 2: You're doing great?

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Speaker 3: Thie.

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Speaker 4: So I before I tay about the books that I've read,

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Speaker 4: I have a little nice story I think about you

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Speaker 4: and your father. I met you and your father in

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Speaker 4: the beginning early two thousands, and I didn't know who

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Speaker 4: you were, and I am a big reader. And you

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Speaker 4: went to CM and I went to Pompon and we

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Speaker 4: were talking about that, and you're I somehow came up

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Speaker 4: out It was in a book club and your father said, well,

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Speaker 4: my son, we were there. William's a writer. And I said,

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Speaker 4: oh and somethinking yeah, sure so and then he mentioned

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Speaker 4: that Bay and I don't know if you're okay COG

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Speaker 4: yet I think so. And anyway, I wanted to tell you,

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Speaker 4: and it still sits with me that I remember how

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Speaker 4: proud your father was of you, because he said the

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Speaker 4: way he said no, my son is a writer, and

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Speaker 4: I said, oh, And then he talked about the books

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Speaker 4: and he was so proud of you, and you were

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Speaker 4: downplaying the whole thing on I know, okay, but I

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Speaker 4: just wanted to tell you that stayed with me. He

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Speaker 4: was so nice, He was such a nice guy, and

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Speaker 4: he was so proud of you, and I just wanted

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Speaker 4: to tell you I remember that well.

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Speaker 3: He was a great character and a great storyteller. He

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Speaker 3: and all his brothers grew up in the South End

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Speaker 3: in a place called Gloucester Place, which is no longer existent.

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Speaker 3: I think I covered over by the old Herald building

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Speaker 3: which is now the Ink Block down there in the

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Speaker 3: South End. I think they'd all be quite surprised at

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Speaker 3: how the South End looks today compared to what it

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Speaker 3: looked like in the nineteen twenties and thirties when they

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Speaker 3: were there. And they were all great storytellers, and I

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Speaker 3: imbibed not only their stories, but also their skill at

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Speaker 3: telling those stories. And I think that got into my

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Speaker 3: DNA and said, my skills at telling stories, at least

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Speaker 3: on the stage here.

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Speaker 4: Well, he was quite proud of you, and I wanted

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Speaker 4: to tell that story. But I so what happened was.

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Speaker 4: I ended up reading Back Bay, which I loved, and

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Speaker 4: then my book club read it, and I'm now reading

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Speaker 4: Cape Cod and I just I'm amazed at how you

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Speaker 4: can write this history to tell a story as well

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Speaker 4: as the history, and it just makes it so interesting.

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Speaker 4: And I know I don't have a ton of time,

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Speaker 4: but one of the things I couldn't stop laughing and

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Speaker 4: Cape Cod was Jack and Kate Hilliard when they were

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Speaker 4: talking about cushions, if you remember writing that, and there

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Speaker 4: was a couple and they're like, what do you mean

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Speaker 4: cushions and laughing. It was hilarious.

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Speaker 3: A pillow out there listening. That scene that she's referring

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Speaker 3: to has to do with a husband and wife after

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Speaker 3: a long sea voyage on the Mayflower, trying to find

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Speaker 3: some privacy so that they can have a little bit

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Speaker 3: of so they can enjoy each other physically on that

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Speaker 3: crowded ship. And I decided this could be a tragic

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Speaker 3: situation or a comic one. And I think that this book,

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Speaker 3: which at that point had just described the absolute miseries

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Speaker 3: of life aboard the Mayflower in that first month there

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Speaker 3: off of the coast of Cape Cod, I think the

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Speaker 3: book needed a little lightening up at that point, so

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Speaker 3: a little sexual farce seemed to be the right thing

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Speaker 3: to to give. And I'm glad you remember you're wor

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Speaker 3: you're a great writer. A writer works very hard on

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Speaker 3: a scene like that, and uh, it's very gratifying to

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Speaker 3: think that something I worked that hard on about thirty

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Speaker 3: years ago, uh, stayed with you and brought you a smile.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're a great writer. Again, I remember your father

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Speaker 4: being so nice and yeah, actually.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you for the thank you for the anecdote,

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Speaker 2: and thanks thanks for the memory. I appreciate it very much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Here be for the news.

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Speaker 4: Okay, thank you.

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Speaker 2: All right, Bill Martin, we got to break through the

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Speaker 2: news to get some other callers. We will get to

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Speaker 2: and we also will get to December forty one. That's

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Speaker 2: that's the most important matter of discussion. Uh. We are

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Speaker 2: going to get Pete in South Carolina coming up next.

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Speaker 2: Also of Dennis and Lowell and Florence in Groveland. Six

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Speaker 2: thirty one line there, six one seven ninety one line there.

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Speaker 2: If you want to talk to Bill Martin, you got

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Speaker 2: to get in now because the hour is is already

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Speaker 2: half over and we haven't even touched December forty one yet,

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Speaker 2: but we will coming back on night Side. My name's

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Speaker 2: Dan Ray.

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Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on w BZY, Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: Bill Martin is my guest his new book December forty one. Bill,

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Speaker 2: let me grab one more phone call here. Pete is

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Speaker 2: in South Carolina. He actually, I believe, was on hold

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Speaker 2: and we had to interrupt our conversation. Uh last late

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Speaker 2: last month. Pete in South Carolina. You're w on with

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Speaker 2: William Martin. Go right ahead, Pete.

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Speaker 5: Good evening, gentlemen. Dan sanks for taking my call, and

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Speaker 5: you knew to both of you you could give it

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Speaker 5: a couple of days. Anyway, Bill, I wanted to tell

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Speaker 5: you thank God for audible books because I breathed through

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Speaker 5: December of forty one good because I couldn't I couldn't

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Speaker 5: get it done fast enough. Yeah, well it was. It

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Speaker 5: was really interesting to see the way you weave the

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Speaker 5: story of the bad guy trying to get from California

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Speaker 5: to Maryland. I don't want to give away the book too,

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Speaker 5: Thad you haven't read it, but it's a great book.

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Speaker 5: And then you and I did chat for I caught

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Speaker 5: you and you sent me in a different direction when

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Speaker 5: I said, you should do a book on the Battle

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Speaker 5: of Midway, and you get me to read Annapolis, which

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Speaker 5: I did. I did the two goods and since last

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Speaker 5: time you were.

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Speaker 3: On and I'm glad of that.

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Speaker 5: And now I'm going to do Back Bay and Cape

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Speaker 5: Cod as stand those. I love Boston. I live down here.

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Speaker 5: And when he has a subject that grabs me that

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Speaker 5: I don't want to take someone time away from people

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Speaker 5: who want to get their feelings in politically up there.

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Speaker 5: But when it's a gentlemen such as yourself, I'm all in.

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Speaker 5: So thank you, I'm glad, thank you, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Glad you enjoyed those books.

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Speaker 5: And December forty one I probably said Dan a text

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Speaker 5: or something about how I'm going to enjoy Back Bay

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Speaker 5: and Kate Cod, which is the first one I should read.

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Speaker 3: Well. Back Bay is the first novel. Yeah. Uh. By

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Speaker 3: the time I wrote Cape Cod I had I was

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Speaker 3: probably a better better writer. I could put words together,

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Speaker 3: uh in a more sophisticated way. But but back Bay

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Speaker 3: uh has a has a plot velocity that people uh

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Speaker 3: that people still recognize when they read the book. Okay,

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Speaker 3: even at the age of ninety eight, I knew what

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Speaker 3: I was, I knew how to tell a story. I

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Speaker 3: guess is what I'm trying to say.

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Speaker 5: Well, I again, Dan, I appreciate you having him back on,

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Speaker 5: and I appreciate you again taking my call. And unfortunately

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Speaker 5: my Eagles lost, But I guess I'll look for the Patriots.

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Speaker 2: We would expect nothing less as always.

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Speaker 5: Appreciated for the Patriots. And again you knew you're to

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Speaker 5: both of you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 5: People.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about.

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Speaker 3: And Dan, Dan speaking speaking of the Patriots, our our

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Speaker 3: favorite expert on the Patriots, the former Patriots GM from

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Speaker 3: the seventies, Upton Bell did to say, hello, Oh.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, if there was ever a renaissance man, uh it,

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Speaker 2: it is Upton Bell. He is the best. He's absolutely

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Speaker 2: the best. I want to talk about December forty one.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty bleak time in America. Clearly, no matter how

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Speaker 2: bad things get or get it, you know, recently or

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Speaker 2: going forward, we were flat on our back as a

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Speaker 2: country that December. And we had leadership in the White

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Speaker 2: House a little different than than what we have in

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Speaker 2: the White House today, but a president today and then

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Speaker 2: who have a vision and the vision of Franklin Roosevelt

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Speaker 2: brought this country together. And in this this novel, how

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Speaker 2: did you come up with the idea of a knots

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Speaker 2: assassin tracking well or attempting to track President Roosevelt. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's the core of the book.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I had always wanted to write a World

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Speaker 3: War two thriller of some kind. And in watching the

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Speaker 3: movie Darkest Hour with Gary Oldman playing Churchill, there's a

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Speaker 3: scene where Gary Oldman, as Churchill, calls Roosevelt in May

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Speaker 3: of nineteen forty. France is falling, the Germans are closing

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Speaker 3: in on Dunkirk. He begs Roosevelt for help. Roosevelt tells him,

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Speaker 3: I can't help you. I've done everything I can for you.

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Speaker 3: American politics ties my hands from this point on, and

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Speaker 3: Churchill slumps in despair. And as I was watching the movie,

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Speaker 3: I thought to myself, in eighteen months, those two men,

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Speaker 3: right after Pearl Harbor will stand on the South Port

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Speaker 3: to go of the White House to express the unity

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Speaker 3: of the Americans and the British people in the fight

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Speaker 3: against fascism. And they will then light the National Christmas

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Speaker 3: Tree on the south lawn, And what a target they

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Speaker 3: would make. And there it was. I had my German

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Speaker 3: Superman who actually and in a way he is a

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Speaker 3: superman because of his skills at weaponry and evasion and

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Speaker 3: so on and so forth. And a lot of ordinary

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Speaker 3: Americans are going to do their part and sometimes sacrifice

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Speaker 3: their lives in order to stop him from achieving his

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Speaker 3: nefarious goal. And the excitement of the story is that

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Speaker 3: it's going to sweep you from Hollywood and Los Angeles,

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Speaker 3: which is where this German is hiding out in the

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Speaker 3: community of Germans who lived there at the time, and

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Speaker 3: there were a lot of them. Uh. And we're going

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Speaker 3: to follow him on the on the the Great Santa

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Speaker 3: Fe super Chief across America, and we're going to finish

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Speaker 3: up in Washington, d C. And Uh, I really enjoyed

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00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 3: writing it. Uh. And I think that people have enjoyed

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Speaker 3: reading it since it's been out well.

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Speaker 2: And of course we we know that as a historical novel, uh,

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Speaker 2: that that Roosevelt is not dispatched, but it's the story

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Speaker 2: that that that holds together. Uh And and and again

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00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 2: that's it is such an an an incredible book. Recently,

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Speaker 2: you addressed, at my request, a club in Boston called

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Speaker 2: the Clover Club. You were well received a great time.

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Speaker 2: It was a great time for all. It's a great

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Speaker 2: time for the audience. And remember you you delivered a

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Speaker 2: really interesting presentation and you finished that with a quote

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Speaker 2: from Churchill. I believe, and I think, if I'm not mistaken,

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Speaker 2: you were reciting it from memory. Yeah, and it was.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was amazing to watch and and to

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Speaker 2: realize that when you finished the Churchill quote you received

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Speaker 2: the standing ovation.

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Speaker 3: Uh yeah. Was it because of my memory or was

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Speaker 3: it because of Churchill's eloquence?

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Speaker 2: I think in combination of the two. Without his eloquence,

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Speaker 2: your memory would have been unnecessary. And without your memory,

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Speaker 2: no one would have been been able to recall as

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Speaker 2: well as you recalled. I won't ask you to repeat it,

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Speaker 2: but it was an extraordinary m not actually the finish

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Speaker 2: of the presentation that you would intended to make. But

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Speaker 2: you said to me later, when you get a standing ovation,

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Speaker 2: you have to accept it.

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Speaker 3: Right. You read the room sit down. But the thing

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Speaker 3: about the thing about Churchill though, on that particular night,

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Speaker 3: and if anyone wants to see the video of this,

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Speaker 3: they can go to my website and there's a timeline

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Speaker 3: of December nineteen forty one. The website is William Martin Books,

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Speaker 3: dot Com and they can click on the date December

436
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: December twenty fourth, and they can watch a twenty minute video.

437
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 3: It's just uncut footage that was filmed by the British

438
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: Pathway News Service on that night, a camera right next

439
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 3: to Roosevelt and Churchill. As they chat with each other,

440
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 3: they look out at the audience. They're totally unaware of

441
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 3: that camera right next to them, and then they give

442
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 3: the speeches. You hear the ringing of the bells across

443
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 3: Washington on that night, and yourself, as you look at it,

444
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 3: Pearl Harbor was in ruins, the British were on the ropes,

445
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 3: the U boats were strangling England. Wake Island was falling,

446
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 3: and actually I think it fell on the twenty fourth.

447
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 3: All of these catastrophes were happening around the world, and

448
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 3: these two guys are standing there in the dusk, talking

449
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 3: to one another and preparing to light that tree. Because Roosevelt,

450
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: despite what the Secret Service had told him about the

451
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 3: dangers that he was exposing the both of them to,

452
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 3: he said, I'm going to get in front of an audience,

453
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 3: just as I promised I would a year ago, and

454
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 3: light that tree on the South lawn of the White House,

455
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 3: he gives a great speech, and then Churchill knocks it

456
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 3: out of the park with his speech, and the whole

457
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: world that's listening in on the radio that night is

458
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 3: just transported. They're electrified by the presence of these two

459
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: men who have gotten together to plan how they're going

460
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: to defeat the forces of fascism in Europe and of

461
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 3: Japanese imperialism in the Far Pacific. And can they do

462
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: it all at once? How will this all unfold? And

463
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 3: it's just it's a stirring story when you think about it.

464
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 3: They were, how.

465
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: Did you find this video? I'm famil going to go

466
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: look at it tomorrow.

467
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just went digging through as you do. Now.

468
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 3: The internet may have a lot of there may be

469
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 3: a lot of reasons why it's better to read books,

470
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 3: but if you want to get an answer quickly, or

471
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 3: if you want to find a piece of historical material quickly,

472
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 3: you go to the internet. And I just went to

473
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 3: YouTube and typed in Christmas Eve nineteen forty one, Washington,

474
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: DC or something like that, and it popped right up there.

475
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 3: They were what fdr and Churchill? And if you watch it,

476
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: you'll just you'll get chills because you'll think that you

477
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 3: are there standing right next to them, because they totally

478
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 3: ignore the camera and give these spectacular speeches. And of course,

479
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 3: two days later, Churchill went to the United States Congress

480
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 3: and addressed the Joint Session where he gives another amazing speech.

481
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 3: At one point, he's talking about the depredations of the

482
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 3: Germans and the Japanese and the Italians, and he says,

483
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 3: what kind of people do they think we are? Is

484
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 3: it possible that they do not comprehend that we shall

485
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: never cease to persevere until they and their ilk have

486
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 3: been taught a lesson such as the world will never forget.

487
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,479
Speaker 3: You know, in the House, the United States House and Senate,

488
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 3: they gave him a huge standing ovation for that. And

489
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: it's speeches like that that at the beginning, when things

490
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 3: were at their darkest. It's speeches like that that that helped,

491
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: that helped to keep the morale of the American people

492
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 3: and of the British people, helped keep it high.

493
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: No, no one represents the power of the sheer power

494
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: of oratory better than Winston Churchill, Right, no, true question.

495
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: We'll take a quick break here. I guess William Martin,

496
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: author of December forty one available now. It's also in

497
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: paperback form. You can get it in paperback form, you

498
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: get it in hardcover. It's something that should be in

499
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: everyone's library. We'll take a quick break and we'll try

500
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: to get a couple of more callers in as well.

501
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: I promise we'll do it all between now and ten

502
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: o'clock with Bill Martin, author of December forty one. Back

503
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: on night Side after this.

504
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on you Boston's

505
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: news Radio.

506
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: My guess is William Martin talking about his latest book,

507
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: December forty one. Let's go to Dennis and Lowell. Dennis,

508
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: we're getting a little tight on time here. You go

509
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: right ahead. You're on Bill Martin.

510
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 6: All right, I'll be swift. I was also one of

511
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 6: your original callers too, when you were supposed to be on. Yes, sir, yeah,

512
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 6: so well, first of all, good evening, gentlemen, and I

513
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 6: will be buying your book December forty one because my

514
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 6: father was in the Navy in World War Two, but

515
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 6: destroyer got sunk in the Mediterranean. But he was a

516
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 6: good swimmer, else I wouldn't be here.

517
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

518
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 6: Now, now, I really enjoyed your book big, big fan

519
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 6: of the Lost Constitution.

520
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you.

521
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 6: And the character is the events, the travel over hundreds

522
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 6: of the years, you know, concerning the mystery of what

523
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 6: was the original wording of the Constitute, the words the

524
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 6: article from the Constitution. I think that's so engaging. I

525
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 6: recommend that to everyone you're listening.

526
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: That's a that's a novel about the what what did

527
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 3: the framers really mean about the Second Amendment? And the

528
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 3: struggle is to find a lost first draft of the Constitution.

529
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 3: And I was fortunate to be able to hold a

530
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:41,479
Speaker 3: first draft of the Constitution in my hands. I called

531
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 3: up a friend of mine who was the like just

532
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 3: recently retired librarian of the mass Historical Society, and I said,

533
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 3: have you ever heard of a first draft of the

534
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 3: Constitution that has been annotated, written on by the the Framers?

535
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 3: And he said, we have one, and we have right

536
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 3: here in Massachusetts one of the few first drafts annotated

537
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 3: by Elbridge Gary. It was his you know who later

538
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 3: gave his name to jerrymandering, but they pronounced the name

539
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 3: Gary with a hard ruh. And he was a Massachusetts

540
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 3: delegate to the Constitutional Convention. And it's pretty amazing to

541
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 3: look at the first draft and the second draft, where

542
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 3: Gary is making little changes in his handwriting. One of

543
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 3: the most interesting, of course, is uh, it's one of

544
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 3: the last, the last sentences in the whole constitution. I

545
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 3: think every office holder, every office holder to or every

546
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 3: candidate for office, shall take an oath to this Constitution.

547
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 3: And then he puts in a little a little carrot,

548
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 3: and it says, but no religious test shall ever be

549
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 3: required of any office holder. You know, they actually debated

550
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 3: the business about the separation of church and state between

551
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 3: that first draft and that second draft, and they said

552
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: we'd better put it in just to make sure, and

553
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 3: so things like that. Insights like that were wonderful for me.

554
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 3: But also the book is about the whole history of

555
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 3: New England, and I had a great, great time doing

556
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 3: the research on that one.

557
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 2: Well, that's excellent again the Massachusetts Hey, Dennis, thank you much,

558
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: Thank you, Dennis. Talk soon, okay, let me I'm going

559
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: to We only got a couple of minutes left here

560
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 2: and people have been holding on long Florence. I only

561
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: have about a minute for you in a minute for

562
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 2: one other call it. Can you do anything with it? Oh?

563
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 7: That's good, good evening. Dean and good eating. Bill Rristall,

564
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 7: I would like to congratulate you on your success of

565
00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 7: all your goot and it's so much like December forty one.

566
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 7: It's an absolute read and I will check it out.

567
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 7: And I also want to know your early years of writing.

568
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 7: Did you have a favorite writer?

569
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 3: Well, I liked E. L. Doctor Rowe who wrote rag

570
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 3: Time and Billy Bask and Brag. Rag Time is one

571
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 3: of my favorite novels I read. Yeah, yeah, yeah, great.

572
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: Clarence, great question. Thanks for getting it in. I wish

573
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: I could give you more time, but I have one

574
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 2: other person I want to give a quick It's fine

575
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: opportunity to thank you for holding on in your patience.

576
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: Tim and Wilburn. Tim, I got maybe thirty seconds for

577
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 2: You're the last caller with Bill Martin.

578
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 6: Go ahead, Bill Martin, I'm going down on Winchester to morrow.

579
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 6: There's a bookstore on the Corne Dunes Street. I'm buying

580
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 6: the Summer of forty one.

581
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 5: And back day.

582
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 3: Great. Tell Dan sent you well.

583
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 5: I going to say I was taughted to that rock

584
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 5: on tour. Bill Martin, you can tell him.

585
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 2: You talk to the man himself. Tim, Thank you much

586
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 2: appreciate it, Bill Martin, as always, thank you. I'm glad

587
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 2: that there was no interruption tonight. Again, thanks for your

588
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 2: presentation at the Clover Club in late December at the

589
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 2: Christmas dinner, and thank you for December forty one. It's

590
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 2: a read that should be read by everyone, whether they're

591
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: a veteran of World War Two, a slowly disappearing group

592
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: of courageous men and women, or a descendant of someone

593
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: from World War Two. It tells people, it teaches them

594
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 2: a lesson that we have overcome more circumstances.

595
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, So thank you for having me on

596
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 3: as always, Dan, I always appreciate it.

597
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 2: And again we'll talk again with that next one comes out,

598
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 2: if not before, Okay, thanks Bill, good, thank you so much.

599
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: All right, YouTube, good night, my friend. All right, and

600
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: we get back. We're going to reflect on some comments

601
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 2: made by the senior senator from Massachusetts at the National

602
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: Press Club yesterday that the Democratic Party has to vere left,

603
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: and I might agree with it. We'll be back on

604
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: Nightside right after the ten o'clock news