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Speaker 1: It's eight oh six here fifty five Carsity Talk Station.

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Speaker 1: Brian Thomas wishing you're on a very happy, good Friday

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Speaker 1: in advanced early happy Eastern and please to walk home

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Speaker 1: to fifty five Carsite Mornings. She be looking forward to

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Speaker 1: this since I saw he was on the rundown. He

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Speaker 1: is Gordon McGill, originally from Hamilton, Ontario. He spent twenty

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Speaker 1: five years behind the wheel of a big truck. And

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Speaker 1: yes he's a trucker, written a book on that we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about there in a minute. And he's he's

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Speaker 1: been down the ice roads of Canada's Northwest territories. Since

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Speaker 1: he's from Canada, that may make sense. But hauling logs

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Speaker 1: down volcanoes in New Zealand, steering road trains across the

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Speaker 1: outback of Western Australia, running freight on our own highways

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Speaker 1: here in the United States. Gordon McGill, Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: fifty five KOSEE Morning Show, author of End of the Road,

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Speaker 1: Inside the War on Truckers. It's a pleasure for having

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Speaker 1: you on the program today, Gord.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good morning, Brian, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: How's going It's going great and what a fascinating life

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Speaker 1: you've had. You know, I love to drive, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I listen, it's too late for me. I'm sixty years old.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to become a trucker. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I the idea of being behind the wheel, as long

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Speaker 1: as you don't have a family that you want to

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Speaker 1: see all the time, it sounds like it might be

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Speaker 1: a fascinating way to make a living, gord your experience

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Speaker 1: and maybe address that family. Man. And I say this

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Speaker 1: within the context of a broader reality young people are

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Speaker 1: thinking about when it comes to their careers. Can artificial

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Speaker 1: intelligence eliminate the job I'm thinking about, Gordon. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they can when it comes to trucking.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're working on it. I take a neutral

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Speaker 2: approach to their technology because that's not my forte, but

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Speaker 2: certainly the discussion around it is full of what you

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Speaker 2: might call misinformation. As for myself, yeah, I've sort of

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Speaker 2: had this unique career arc and you know, it's certainly

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Speaker 2: gotten the way of having kids. I didn't have children

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Speaker 2: un while I was thirty nine, but yeah, I did

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Speaker 2: spend a lot of time on the road. I quite

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Speaker 2: enjoyed driving. It's actually a very human activity to navigate

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Speaker 2: this planet we live on with a tool, which is

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Speaker 2: your vehicle, employing you know, skills and competencies developed over time,

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Speaker 2: and it's a competency and human enjoyment and activity that

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Speaker 2: we give over to technology at our own peril.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, Well, Gordon, the name of the book suggests it's

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Speaker 1: not always right in the world. Obviously, end of the

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Speaker 1: Road inside the War on Truckers suggests that we got

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Speaker 1: problems out there. And I know we've dealt here in

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Speaker 1: the United States with illegal immigrants who can't read English

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Speaker 1: getting commercial driver's license, which is just beyond my comprehension.

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Speaker 1: Is that the kind of concern you have for the industry.

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Speaker 1: Are we talking about something much broader than that, Gord.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, that's a component of it, and my

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Speaker 2: book outlines how we sort of arrived where we're at today.

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Speaker 2: The last year and a half or so, the trucking

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Speaker 2: industry has been under intense scrutiny in the media, by

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Speaker 2: the public, and by the government, and an awful lot

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Speaker 2: of holes in various systems and agencies, both federal and state,

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Speaker 2: have have sort of opened up and allowed the trucking

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Speaker 2: industry to become parasitized by various actors who you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe aren't all that great at following the rules or

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Speaker 2: even caring about them. And because these loopholes have been

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Speaker 2: opened up following many decades of other degradations against barriers

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Speaker 2: to entry and forcing down the sort of skill level

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Speaker 2: required to be to become a truck driver, this all

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Speaker 2: has sort of added up to a bit of terror

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Speaker 2: on our highways.

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Speaker 1: Well, it certainly has, and some loss of life on

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Speaker 1: top of it. So but come on, Gord, isn't it

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Speaker 1: because there is a desperate need for over the road

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Speaker 1: long haul truckers and lord knows, we didn't have these

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Speaker 1: illegal immigrants or any person coming into the country and

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Speaker 1: satisfying the demand that isn't being met by the population here. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're all going to be without freight. Is there any

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Speaker 1: truth to that narrative? Gord?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a couple of chapters in my book

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Speaker 2: dedicated to this question. Unfortunately, some corporate lobbyists called the

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Speaker 2: American Trucking Associations have been very good at misclassifying a problem,

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Speaker 2: which is retention and churn because it's become advantageous to

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Speaker 2: them to do so. Because that churn and retention problem

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Speaker 2: has allowed them to unlock again state and federal moneies

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Speaker 2: to subsidize truck driver schools. Not because there's not enough

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Speaker 2: truck drivers. They produce like hundreds of thousands of them

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Speaker 2: every year. It's because they quit and don't come back

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Speaker 2: because the industry doesn't want to fix itself and doesn't

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Speaker 2: want to pay people properly. And that sort of pre

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Speaker 2: existing corporate welfare program based on the lie of a

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Speaker 2: shortage ran into the mass migration problems we've had over

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Speaker 2: the last few years and brought us to where we

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Speaker 2: are today.

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Speaker 1: And of course some states are a little more apply

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Speaker 1: a little bit more scrutiny on who can qualify than others.

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Speaker 1: And maybe with the terrible accidents have happened as a

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Speaker 1: consequence of people w can't read signs comes to more

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Speaker 1: and more people's attention, more and more legislation will end

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Speaker 1: up on the books, which prevents that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: And I know that's already happened already, So maybe the

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Speaker 1: problems will come up with a solution and solve that area.

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Speaker 1: But one of the things you identify in the book

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Speaker 1: End of the Road inside the war on truckers, and

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Speaker 1: I'm curious about this because I am certainly not familiar with,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if my listening audience is the

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Speaker 1: Motor Carrier Act of nineteen eighty, which you say fundamentally

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Speaker 1: rearrange the economics of the trucking business, and is the

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Speaker 1: and I'm just reading this the underlying cause of every

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Speaker 1: other problem we've seen since. Can you break that down

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Speaker 1: for is Gord right?

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Speaker 2: So? The Motor Carrier Active nineteen eighty was one of

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Speaker 2: a number of economic reforms brought about by the Carter

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Speaker 2: administration to address economic doldrums in the nineteen seventies. The

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Speaker 2: previous sort of regulated trucking industry was sort of sclerootic

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Speaker 2: and created a bunch of cartels, and it needed to

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Speaker 2: be reformed. That we did need the Motor Carrier Active

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty. The problem is is that it's swung so

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Speaker 2: far in the opposite direction that literally anybody with a

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Speaker 2: pulse and three hundred dollars could open up a trucking company.

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Speaker 2: And unfortunately nobody's been keeping an eye on just at

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Speaker 2: the insane number of trucking companies that open up, and

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Speaker 2: then the fact that a lot of those trucking companies

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Speaker 2: are opened up as sort of ghost LLC's to allow

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Speaker 2: companies that get shut down for poor behavior and unsafe

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Speaker 2: operations and demerit points on their drivers and shoddy equipment,

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Speaker 2: they just shut down their company, move everything to another

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Speaker 2: LLC and another motor carrier registration number, and keep on trucking. Sure,

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Speaker 2: so this system, this system that was meant to sort

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Speaker 2: of free things up and increase competition and make things

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Speaker 2: better for the almighty consumer, has been completely weaponized against us.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this cord that sounds remarkably

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Speaker 1: like problems that we've had here in the CINCINNTI here,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sure it exists everywhere. You have absentee landlords

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Speaker 1: that allow their properties to deteriorate to the point where

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Speaker 1: sam action needs to be taken. There's litigation that's filed

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Speaker 1: against the LLC that owns the building, and lo and behold,

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Speaker 1: the LLC just goes out of business. They reform is

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Speaker 1: a different one, and you got to start the whole

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Speaker 1: legal process over. That sounds remarkably similiar familiar, Yes it is.

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Speaker 2: And you know what else is happening in Ohio. I

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Speaker 2: know you're in Cincinnati. I have I have some colleagues

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Speaker 2: and friends in the trucking business. There. There's a little

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Speaker 2: town called Mainville, Ohio, and this is happening in other

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Speaker 2: areas of southern Ohio where various migrant communities are using

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Speaker 2: this system to open up all these multiple trucking companies,

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Speaker 2: abusing the immigration system and asylum and refugee claims and

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Speaker 2: mass immigrating themselves into these small towns in Ohio, using

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Speaker 2: fraudulent trucking companies to launder or create money. And then

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Speaker 2: you know, I think in Mainville they're constructing a mosque

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Speaker 2: and most of the money behind that is coming from

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Speaker 2: these trucking companies that employ migrants from Uzbekistan almost exclusively. Hmm.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like john American workers might do, Gord, They would.

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Speaker 2: If you paid them appropriately and didn't treat them like

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Speaker 2: crap and expect them to just tolerate that abuse without correction.

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Speaker 1: H What about those who would say, well, it's market

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Speaker 1: forces and these people are capable of doing it if

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Speaker 1: they're willing to work for less, then that just works.

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Speaker 1: The American consumers benefit because everything that we you know,

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Speaker 1: we eat and we get in our we purchase, it's

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Speaker 1: all brought to a store or a venue that's by

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Speaker 1: a semi tractor trailer. We all know that. So isn't

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Speaker 1: this an inflationary reality when you argue for better pay

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Speaker 1: for the trucker's cord?

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Speaker 2: H No, there are a couple of things going on there.

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Speaker 2: The cost of trucking, as reflected in the market retail

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Speaker 2: price of any possible good or service never exceeds three percent,

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Speaker 2: and it's usually down around one percent. And who are

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Speaker 2: the consumers themselves but workers, And if they don't have

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Speaker 2: any money, they're not going to consume so much. America

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Speaker 2: is not a work camp for the third world? Should

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Speaker 2: it be on a death drive to unemploy everybody?

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Speaker 1: Good point, Gord. That's why I threw that softball at you.

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Speaker 1: I figured you're cracking out of the park, Cord. What's

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Speaker 1: the fix for the problem you identified earlier with these

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Speaker 1: these sham companies that you know, when they're identified as

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Speaker 1: a problem, they disappear and then reform. Is that sounds

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Speaker 1: like an easy fix, assuming someone's looking out for it.

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Speaker 2: And and well, you know, God bless a Transportation Secretary Duffy,

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Speaker 2: he's listening to us. And the new administrator of the FMCSA,

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Speaker 2: Derek Bars, is listening to people within the industry, and

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Speaker 2: they know all this stuff is going on. Their problem

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Speaker 2: is is that the FMCSA has been focused on other

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Speaker 2: things rather than the important things. They also have a

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Speaker 2: little problem employing a bunch of the corporate lobbyist folks

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Speaker 2: from the American Trucking associations I mentioned earlier. Hopefully the FMCSA,

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Speaker 2: you know, directs the resources more appropriately towards these very

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Speaker 2: pervasive issues.

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Speaker 1: Well, going back to the idea that if you are

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Speaker 1: making a decent salary in the trucking business and some

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Speaker 1: you know, an illegal immigrant has an undercut your salary

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Speaker 1: just because well they're more than happy to do it

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Speaker 1: that way. Is this a good career choice? So those

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Speaker 1: out there again going back to the whole idea that

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Speaker 1: we all have to do with AI now and young

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Speaker 1: people looking for maybe a career in the trades. This

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Speaker 1: is a form of trade and again I don't I

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Speaker 1: can't see it being eliminated. Is it a good career

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Speaker 1: choice assuming you got the right personality type to want

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Speaker 1: to be on the road, Gord, It can.

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Speaker 2: Be assuming a right personality type and b working for

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Speaker 2: the correct company and those are fast coming the correct

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Speaker 2: company to work for is harder to come by than

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Speaker 2: the supposed shortage of drivers.

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Speaker 1: I can see that. I guess that's an experience thing

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Speaker 1: you'll just learn from. Well, I guess just jumping in

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Speaker 1: the water and doing it now. I got to ask

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Speaker 1: you this, considering the your your bio, your background, that

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Speaker 1: I just sort of pulled a couple of fun facts

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Speaker 1: out when I was introducing you. How in the world,

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Speaker 1: Gordon McGill from Hamilton, Ontario, did you end up in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand and in the outback of Australia and then

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Speaker 1: of course driving around here in the United States of America?

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Speaker 1: You've been all over the place? How did that happen?

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Speaker 1: As a trucker?

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Speaker 2: I just I wanted to go places. I availed myself

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Speaker 2: of temporary work visas in OZ and New Zealand for

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Speaker 2: one year, places where I speak the same language and

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Speaker 2: understand the word temporary and didn't plan on sticking around

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Speaker 2: to parasitize their economy. And I went home. Something I

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Speaker 2: think some of our recent arrival friends here should understand that.

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Speaker 1: Is brilliant Gordon. It is brilliant so other than other

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Speaker 1: fellow truckers, or maybe just to enlighten folks like me

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Speaker 1: who are not savvy to the problems that have been

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Speaker 1: a sort of the self harm inflicted by again the

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Speaker 1: Motor Carry Act of nineteen eighty or the American Trucking Association.

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Speaker 1: Who'd you write the book for?

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Speaker 2: I wrote the book sort of in defense of my

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Speaker 2: fellow truckers, I mean. I was approached by a publisher

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Speaker 2: about eighteen months ago because I write on substack. My

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Speaker 2: substacks called Autonomous Truckers dot substack dot com. I host

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Speaker 2: a little podcast, and the whole idea was, pardon me

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Speaker 2: to take my sort of observations and my own research

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Speaker 2: into why the industry functions in the way that it

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Speaker 2: does and share them with, you know, just my fellow

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Speaker 2: drivers for them to consider. And so I guess that's

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Speaker 2: sort of who I wrote the book for, I mean,

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Speaker 2: and the wider public. It's it's a fairly smooth read,

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Speaker 2: and it's not I don't think it's too heavy with

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Speaker 2: technical jargon or insider information. I think most people reading

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Speaker 2: it will get the points and trying to put across,

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Speaker 2: even if they're not truckers or in the transportation industry,

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Speaker 2: and I.

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Speaker 1: Imagine come away after reading it with a more profound

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Speaker 1: respect for the truckers in the world.

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Speaker 2: Good well, mission accomplished.

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Speaker 1: There you go, Gord McGill. Man, it's really been cool

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Speaker 1: having you on the program. Cool life you've had getting

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Speaker 1: all over the world in trucks and of course supporting

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Speaker 1: the idea that young people can still pursue this as

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Speaker 1: a career. We just need to get the baggage out

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Speaker 1: of the way, and obviously you've provided a guidepost to

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Speaker 1: anybody that wants to read it, maybe elected officials on

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Speaker 1: how to smooth out the bumps they have intentionally placed

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Speaker 1: in the road. Gordon McGill and the Road inside the

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Speaker 1: War on Truckers. We've got your book on my blog

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Speaker 1: paget fifty five cars dot com, so my listeners can

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Speaker 1: easily click on it and get a copy of it,

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Speaker 1: and I hope they do. Gord, it's been fun man.

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Speaker 1: I hope you have a great, good Friday and a

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Speaker 1: wonderful Easter weekend and be safe out happy Easter.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. And the books also available

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Speaker 2: on audible for those that are driving around and like

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Speaker 2: to listen to it while they're driving.

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Speaker 1: They will certainly do that as well. Gordon Micgael, it's

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Speaker 1: been a pleasure. Be safe out there on the roads.

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Speaker 1: It's eight nineteen right now here at fifty five Carsiti

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Speaker 1: Talk Station. Just Trek'll open the phone lines. We've got

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Speaker 1: some time to talk between now and the end of

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Speaker 1: the show, and I really would love