Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American?
Speaker 2: Here we go Monday morning, back yet at Scott's loan,
Speaker 2: hanging with you on seven hundred w WELW and we
Speaker 2: pick up where we left off last week, and that
Speaker 2: is three Ohio companies, including a Cincinnati outfit, filed a
Speaker 2: lawsuit challenging Republican Governor Mike Dewines emergency order to ban
Speaker 2: the sale of low level intoxicating hemp products, Delta eight
Speaker 2: infused products like edibles, gummies, and some certain seltzer. So
Speaker 2: let me just lay the explainer out because I was
Speaker 2: talking to people few people this weekend are like, okay,
Speaker 2: so I can't understand what the difference is between Delta
Speaker 2: and Dental nine and then CBD and then cannabis. Okay,
Speaker 2: So it's complicated. I'll try and make as simple as possible.
Speaker 2: So cannabis and hemp are they're related plants. They look
Speaker 2: alike chemically, they're different, and the part that gets you
Speaker 2: high is much less so in hemp. Hemp has been
Speaker 2: legal in the United States. Cannabis is not by federal law.
Speaker 2: THC of the cannabis part and way THHD is the
Speaker 2: part that gets you high.
Speaker 3: CBD doesn't basically.
Speaker 2: So hemp has a little little bit of and CBD
Speaker 2: has a little bit of THHC in the hamp anyway.
Speaker 3: But so what they do is the products.
Speaker 2: And because of this, I don't know you call the loophole,
Speaker 2: but probact can be sold anywhere in the Buckeye State
Speaker 2: hemp products, so the government doesn't really have jurisdiction over them.
Speaker 2: And so the end result is, hey, we've got hemp
Speaker 2: and we've got cannabis.
Speaker 3: The THHC and the CBD. That's the difference between the two.
Speaker 2: The other thing you need to know you keep hearing
Speaker 2: about delta eight and delta nine and is the chemical
Speaker 2: compound that makes it up. So eight is generally considered
Speaker 2: not as potent and milder than delta nine. Delta nine
Speaker 2: is the classic weed high. Delta eight is a more
Speaker 2: it's a buzz I guess, it's kind of relaxing. Maybe
Speaker 2: not as intoxicating, certainly. And the concern is Delta eight
Speaker 2: is synthetically produced by converting hemp derived CBD product into
Speaker 2: a chemical process. So they extract that point three percent
Speaker 2: out and then now you can get enough of that
Speaker 2: to distill un concert enough to put in a product
Speaker 2: that will allow one to become mightily intoxicated. So I
Speaker 2: think that is like the dummies version, my version of
Speaker 2: what's going on here, and then we'll get to the
Speaker 2: politics of it. Because Ohio State Senator Steve Huffman is
Speaker 2: on the show from Tip City. He's a physician and
Speaker 2: sits in the legislature in Columbus. Steve, how are you.
Speaker 4: I'm doing well on yourself.
Speaker 3: I'm doing fine.
Speaker 2: It's always difficult to kind of explain complex issues like that.
Speaker 2: I struggle with it, but hopefully I think, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe nine out of ten, ninety nine out of one hundred,
Speaker 2: I think I got most of the points right. Then
Speaker 2: that's where that's where things stand right now in Ohiot's
Speaker 2: I hate calling it loophole because loophole is such a
Speaker 2: loaded term, but it kind of is when it comes.
Speaker 3: To hamp.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: So the definition of hemp is less than zero point
Speaker 4: three percent THCHC. And to give you a reference from that,
Speaker 4: marijuana during woodstock was six percent THHC. Yeah, today it
Speaker 4: has grown at about thirty five percent. So in woodstock
Speaker 4: you're a catching a little buzz. Now you're getting stoned
Speaker 4: with just a little bit of product.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which which is agricultural progress. I mean in other
Speaker 2: areas it would celebrate. I mean, hell, Steve. And if
Speaker 2: you go back to the same time period in the
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties, you know, we get what is it, four
Speaker 2: to six times more yield per acre for you know
Speaker 2: what it is we grow in our fields because of technology,
Speaker 2: the same thing.
Speaker 5: Oh no, no, I agree.
Speaker 4: I'm not complaining or anything. Yeah, yeah, you know, just
Speaker 4: you used to get four bushes an acre. Now you're
Speaker 4: getting twenty bushes and that's great. Yeah, so that's modern technology.
Speaker 3: It's technology.
Speaker 2: But as far as the HIGA, so it's kind of
Speaker 2: a sort of a loopholder. And I understand the concern.
Speaker 2: The concern is this, you do have teenagers, younger people
Speaker 2: even younger than teenagers, preteens, even going into you know,
Speaker 2: gas stations or carryouts, not all of them, but a
Speaker 2: number of them, and they will be get a Delta
Speaker 2: Eate product because there's no age requirement, and the unscrupulous
Speaker 2: retailers have no problems selling that product to a kid.
Speaker 3: Nobody wants that.
Speaker 4: Oh, I agree, And you know you're not going to
Speaker 4: see Kroger's or my Ers there places like that. Sell it,
Speaker 4: but usually it's the one off gas station that you know,
Speaker 4: see it kinda sees a high profit law margin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for them, it's nothing about money. And okay, I
Speaker 2: get in that regard. Why the governor say, hey, we've
Speaker 2: got to do something about this. He's been complaining about
Speaker 2: this for a while, and it's specifically aimed at these
Speaker 2: you know, the intoxicating him products can be sold to
Speaker 2: kids that there's no quality control and they're dangerous. But
Speaker 2: my problem is this, Steve As, you know, what about
Speaker 2: adults who choose to use this stuff? What about for example,
Speaker 2: I had on Friday morning the head of the fifty
Speaker 2: West called him to the show because he was listening
Speaker 2: and talk about how much money they stand to lose
Speaker 2: because a lot of adults are going, you know what,
Speaker 2: I really like the I like the products at Deltate.
Speaker 2: I like the CBD infused products at a bar more
Speaker 2: than I like the alcohol. And now we've got this
Speaker 2: tremendous wave that's sweeping across Ohan the rest of the
Speaker 2: country when it comes to adults going to in a
Speaker 2: bar and ordering one of these products. And now we have,
Speaker 2: just because of this alleged emergency, we've shut all that down.
Speaker 2: That's what's problematic for me.
Speaker 4: Oh, I don't disagree with you. You know, the Senate
Speaker 4: passed my Bill eighty six back in March that would
Speaker 4: have solved all this problem, and the House is looking
Speaker 4: has taken it up, but hasn't decided.
Speaker 5: What to do with it.
Speaker 4: And basically it said, if it's intoxicating with THHC, it
Speaker 4: needs to go into the dispensaries and we carve out
Speaker 4: the beverages to go to see her de liquor license
Speaker 4: so that they can continue to be sold.
Speaker 3: That seems like an easy fix. Why didn't we do it.
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 4: So there's two trains of thought. One put it in
Speaker 4: the dispensaries or number two kind of like the guy
Speaker 4: that you had on the other day, that you can
Speaker 4: to be in any retail store, require twenty one and
Speaker 4: over and still be in those stores, but have a license.
Speaker 4: Not there is no license or plan for a license,
Speaker 4: but be twenty one and over to get THC in that.
Speaker 2: Form right, Because if I'm going to a bar, I
Speaker 2: mean fifty wests really upstanding place you go. Their kids
Speaker 2: are welcome, their dogs are welcome, they're hell they built
Speaker 2: one in Mason here where I am.
Speaker 3: It's gorgeous.
Speaker 2: They've got volleyball courts, they got sand for the kids
Speaker 2: to play, and they've got alcohol. They've got the CB
Speaker 2: drink D drinks. They got food and you know, the
Speaker 2: margins and food and beverage. I don't have to tell you,
Speaker 2: Steve Hoffman, Senator, it's really really tight when I have
Speaker 2: someone on from that industry, or for example, retailers that
Speaker 2: are saying, hey, look, you know now like a quarter
Speaker 2: of my revenue and a growing number of the revenue
Speaker 2: is coming from these products because people are going beer
Speaker 2: sales are down. The fifty West folks said, yeah, we're
Speaker 2: the craft beer. Things kind of peaked right now. Now
Speaker 2: people are like favoring how they feel after drinking a
Speaker 2: couple CBD laced beverages as opposed to traditional alcohol, because
Speaker 2: that's what the public wants. I don't know how you
Speaker 2: get away with calling this is such an emergency, you've
Speaker 2: got to shut it all down in effective medialy for
Speaker 2: at least ninety days. And now we have people who
Speaker 2: have invested heavily in their product and developing and selling
Speaker 2: and the like for a market that clearly exists by adults,
Speaker 2: and now you're telling me even they can't have it,
Speaker 2: that's extreme to me. To call this an emergency is absurd.
Speaker 4: I don't disagree with you. I think the governor was
Speaker 4: his way to force the people the General Assembly to
Speaker 4: either look at eighty six and put it in the dispensaries,
Speaker 4: or there's you know, ten to fifteen people in the
Speaker 4: House that say we shouldn't do that, We should just
Speaker 4: leave these people do it, but make it twenty one
Speaker 4: and over. Maybe behind the counter, like we have other
Speaker 4: products behind the counter so that people can't get to
Speaker 4: it is another train of thought. Or those you know
Speaker 4: or you know have a license to do well, they're
Speaker 4: not gonna.
Speaker 2: They're going to cart anybody who walks in. They're not
Speaker 2: going to sell these drinks to kids because of a loophole.
Speaker 2: Now maybe there's some again unscrupulous retailers, but we should
Speaker 2: be using the law to go after them and allowing
Speaker 2: the adults. Anyway, the good people to get what they
Speaker 2: want and what business is willing to sell. And it's
Speaker 2: a market driven economy. Obviously, this is a play by
Speaker 2: the governor because he's willing to be the bad guy
Speaker 2: here to say, hey, look, we're going to force the
Speaker 2: House to do something to act on this. From what
Speaker 2: you hear now, granted you're in a different chamber, is
Speaker 2: there any impetus to move quickly on this as a result.
Speaker 4: Well, I think, you know, we'll see if these, you know,
Speaker 4: the temporary injunctions are out there. A lot of people
Speaker 4: think that they will not that they will be success
Speaker 4: successful to overturning the governor, because the governor has said,
Speaker 4: essentially for the last year and a half, this HEMP
Speaker 4: product and with the Dela eight Della nine is really bad.
Speaker 4: We've got to do something, but I can't do it.
Speaker 4: I can't do it with an executive order. And he
Speaker 4: says it's said that twenty five times, and now he's
Speaker 4: doing it. And so there's a lot of people think
Speaker 4: that that it'll be overturned his executive order. So but
Speaker 4: it'll give people some emphasis to you know, to come
Speaker 4: to the table, to be able to say, Okay, is
Speaker 4: it twenty one and over in any store or is
Speaker 4: it over here in the dispensaries because we've identified it
Speaker 4: as intoxicating.
Speaker 3: Right, And I'll get back to the initial thing.
Speaker 2: And this is where I get what Mike DeWine is
Speaker 2: doing and leveraging this and saying we're declaring emergency shut
Speaker 2: it down. So there's pressure on the Assembly to get
Speaker 2: something done and get it done in a hurry. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, this is a problem that was
Speaker 2: created for a long time by these same elected officials
Speaker 2: in that there's been sizable demand for cannabis, medicinal cannabis
Speaker 2: and then recreational cannabis. Everyone saw this coming. It was
Speaker 2: a matter of time before we passed it. Then the legislature,
Speaker 2: after it was a grassroots effort, are going to pass
Speaker 2: Then the legislature got involved in trying too. Well, now
Speaker 2: we've got to regulated because this was the people I
Speaker 2: didn't fought for the governor themselves that I don't want
Speaker 2: this in my state.
Speaker 3: I went to Colorado.
Speaker 2: It's terrible, and the people in Colorado seem to enjoy
Speaker 2: it because they keep voting for it. So at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, I see this whole CBD and
Speaker 2: the point three percent THCHC and that's just a workaround.
Speaker 2: It's synthetic marijuana. Because had we just accepted the fact
Speaker 2: that people want to use THC products and I'm talking
Speaker 2: about adults here, and accept that and leaned into it
Speaker 2: we wouldn't have this whole loophole to begin with. I
Speaker 2: don't think you know, it seems like this is a
Speaker 2: problem created by overregulation and not being responded to the
Speaker 2: constituents that for many, many years said what's wrong with
Speaker 2: us having some pot?
Speaker 4: I don't disagree with a lot of things you said.
Speaker 4: I think it goes back to twenty eighteen, you know,
Speaker 4: the heads created in the farm bill, the ability to
Speaker 4: have hemp. I had Senate Bill fifty seven in Ohio
Speaker 4: that legalized hamp and it was our short sightedness. We
Speaker 4: didn't really think about the CBD and the THHC. We
Speaker 4: knew that it had to be under point three, but
Speaker 4: we were thinking about industrial hamp and you were going
Speaker 4: to grow it for clothing and straws and car parts.
Speaker 4: But since then, the you know, this market for CBDs,
Speaker 4: when and when people say I want a full spectrum product,
Speaker 4: that means it has higher levels the THHC in it,
Speaker 4: and so we didn't really think of that.
Speaker 2: Now we have to deal with it because that's not
Speaker 2: what the people wanted. So the people who are going
Speaker 2: to get whether it's I mean as well, you know
Speaker 2: Steve that you know prohibition does not work in almost
Speaker 2: all cases. It just simply doesn't work, especially in something
Speaker 2: in this fashion.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 2: One of the things I hear too, and you was
Speaker 2: a physician, Steve Fuffman can address this is that we
Speaker 2: don't know enough about Delta eight. We don't know enough
Speaker 2: about these derivatives, whether how healthy they are and what
Speaker 2: the initial report, largely because you know, outside of hamp
Speaker 2: But we'll talk about cannabis. It's been a Schedule one
Speaker 2: narcotic for so long that no one's allowed to do
Speaker 2: research on it. So it's hard to say, hey, we
Speaker 2: can't do research and find out what's in it. Well
Speaker 2: because the law, federal law prescribes it. We can't do that.
Speaker 2: What about CBD? What do we know so far about
Speaker 2: this product that for all intensive purposes is legal despite
Speaker 2: this this ninety day shutdown. But people do it for
Speaker 2: all sorts of reasons. I've tried it. It worked for me,
Speaker 2: I thought for a little bit, but I guess it didn't.
Speaker 2: Some people report great success with diminished pain and focus
Speaker 2: and things like that.
Speaker 4: So there's three things in marijuana, and three common things
Speaker 4: in marijuana, and half the THC, the CBD, and another
Speaker 4: product called esther Dill and it's the combination and the
Speaker 4: level of the of the three. CBD is thought to
Speaker 4: be safe. Again, there's no real research out there about
Speaker 4: what it helps with arthritis, it helps with with anxiety.
Speaker 5: A lot of.
Speaker 4: People think that both of those it helps, uh, but
Speaker 4: there's no research out there, but it's it's thought to
Speaker 4: be very very safe and certainly not intoxicating with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as far as long term effects have have
Speaker 2: we been able to study that? As someone on other
Speaker 2: country minial to do that, what do we know about it?
Speaker 4: I don't think there's any any studies of above long
Speaker 4: term effects on with with CBD.
Speaker 2: I do know this as a parent, I wouldn't want
Speaker 2: my adolescent to get it. I wouldn't want my kid
Speaker 2: using it now. If they decided when they become adults
Speaker 2: to engage in the use of alcohol or things like this,
Speaker 2: that's a different matter entirely.
Speaker 3: We we don't know.
Speaker 2: Do we have any idea what the effect might be
Speaker 2: on kids in the developing mind?
Speaker 4: We certainly know the THHC is very bad for the
Speaker 4: developing mind. You know, mind really doesn't fully develop till
Speaker 4: you're about twenty five, so we know that's bad. That
Speaker 4: we have no research really on any CBD, but it's
Speaker 4: thought to be okay, but we have no research.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we know like heavy cannabis users, teenagers
Speaker 2: use it. There's sleep problems possibly and things that persist
Speaker 2: later in life.
Speaker 3: Same for pregnant women.
Speaker 2: But you know, if you're a heavy teen user or
Speaker 2: a heavy user of anything in general normally, And this
Speaker 2: is what I hate to see when we talk about
Speaker 2: prohibition and bands is that, you know, we're scaring people
Speaker 2: with a very very small percentage of folks who abuse it.
Speaker 2: Now that could be a kid, it could also be
Speaker 2: an adult too. So you look at the extreme and say,
Speaker 2: this is why I should you should ban it because
Speaker 2: there's sleep problems and it could cause pregnancy issues and
Speaker 2: it could develop the problems in your kid. Okay, but
Speaker 2: that's that's like a fraction of one percent of the users.
Speaker 2: Most people are adults just trying to either feel better
Speaker 2: about their situation in life little chemical yoga, if you will,
Speaker 2: Steve Hoffman, or use it to alleviate pains instead of
Speaker 2: using opioids. And we've had this now prohibition extending far
Speaker 2: too long. I think we've got to be a little
Speaker 2: bit more friendly When it comes this, I hope the legislature,
Speaker 2: and this would be the House, decides to get up,
Speaker 2: look at your proposal and say, all right, fine, we
Speaker 2: can't punish businesses who have leaned into making money and
Speaker 2: a growing number of money off of something that they
Speaker 2: were looking the other way on just a few days ago.
Speaker 2: In order to leverage this and say we've got to
Speaker 2: protect it's about the children. Every time someone tells me
Speaker 2: it's about the children. As elected official, I do a
Speaker 2: side eye to them. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: I don't disagree with you. I do believe, as always,
Speaker 4: I believe that Governor de Wine is well meaning. Maybe
Speaker 4: we don't agree with the tactic that he took with
Speaker 4: the emergency order, but I truly believe that everything that
Speaker 4: he does is well meaning and protecularly for the children.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's doing this because he's horribly out
Speaker 2: of time. I just I hate the way he worded
Speaker 2: it to sell it. I don't know why I just
Speaker 2: would go, I'm doing this because the legislature won't do
Speaker 2: their job. I mean, you know, you're all on the
Speaker 2: same side of the aisle pretty much. I don't understand
Speaker 2: why you can't call out your own people. Nonetheless, State
Speaker 2: Senator Steve Huffman, what do you think happens next and
Speaker 2: how soon before this thing gets resolved?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 4: You know the Speaker has said that he hopes we
Speaker 4: can do something by Thanksgiving, and I think it brings
Speaker 4: people to the table and say, you know, what's a
Speaker 4: good compromise. The ultimate goal is to get this out
Speaker 4: of the hand that children, make it safe with some regulation,
Speaker 4: but still keep the products on the on the street.
Speaker 4: And I think that's what you've been talking about. So
Speaker 4: I think sometime here by the end of the by Thanksgiving,
Speaker 4: I think we can work something out.
Speaker 2: He is Senator, State Senator Steve Huffman from just a
Speaker 2: tipp city of just north of Dayton. Thanks and Senator,
Speaker 2: always appreciate your insight in your thoughtful prose on the show.
Speaker 4: Good thanks for having me you take care, take care.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. And you know, here's the problem with this,
Speaker 2: all this stupid political fighting. We've got the federal government
Speaker 2: to shut down for good reasons.
Speaker 3: Godly knows why. Well we need healthcare.
Speaker 2: Well, you're subsidizing something that's if you didn't subsidize it.
Speaker 2: The exposure is like healthcare is broken, let's fix that.
Speaker 2: Let's all get to get No, we've got to shut
Speaker 2: the government down. And now we're not going to pay soldiers.
Speaker 2: But we're gonna pay soldiers because that's a bad look
Speaker 2: for us. And it's I don't care who you blame,
Speaker 2: the Democrats, Republics, not blame them all. They all have
Speaker 2: skin in the game. They're all at fault. It doesn't
Speaker 2: matter who. We're blind so they want they wanted to
Speaker 2: blame one side or the other. We blame the whole
Speaker 2: system for blame us for allowing us to the thing
Speaker 2: to occur. Now you look at the state level, something
Speaker 2: we control a little bit better because they more locally get,
Speaker 2: the more control you have as a voter, as a constituent,
Speaker 2: A lot of this's going hold on just a second.
Speaker 2: The state well, legislature, both sides, and the executive branch
Speaker 2: all controlled by Republicans and it's been that way for
Speaker 2: a long time. And you mean to tell me that
Speaker 2: you can't get this done without punishing good law abiding
Speaker 2: god fear in tax paying moms and dads, grandmas and grandpas,
Speaker 2: aunts and uncles, brothers and sisters. I'm not talking about
Speaker 2: the kids because the many of you start going, we
Speaker 2: got to save the children. That's how politicis children and
Speaker 2: any about the children, it's about your political bs.
Speaker 3: How is it?
Speaker 2: We have Republicans that largely can yeah, whip and control
Speaker 2: each other. That's why they call you, you know, minority
Speaker 2: whippings in this case the majority. And we've got to
Speaker 2: basically shut down something that's functioning, something that men and
Speaker 2: women enjoy with impunity and a growing number of people
Speaker 2: are discovering is a wonderful thing and that would be
Speaker 2: these delta E T CBD infused beverages. And we have
Speaker 2: a whole industry that's growing. You know, we worry about
Speaker 2: job loss and things closing, and you know, is it
Speaker 2: over for this because a at least in the you know,
Speaker 2: the food and beverage sector, we know that people are
Speaker 2: demanding more of these beverages. It's literally keeping alive a
Speaker 2: lout of our micro breweries.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Bobby Slattery was on the show on Friday. He called
Speaker 2: in he's the founder of fifty Wess and said this
Speaker 2: is saving us because right now beer sales people aren't
Speaker 2: drinking beer like they used to.
Speaker 3: The craft beer.
Speaker 2: Thing now it's about the CBD infused beverages, which we're
Speaker 2: getting a huge market sell. So the end result is
Speaker 2: they've got all this product that they've got to sell
Speaker 2: at a discount because they don't want to go bad
Speaker 2: and try and cover some of their costs and then
Speaker 2: stop making it for ninety days because the legislature, the
Speaker 2: Republican legislature.
Speaker 3: Can't get out of there on the way. How hard
Speaker 3: is it.
Speaker 2: To come up with something and go, let's fix this problem.
Speaker 2: If you're an adult, you can buy the beverage as
Speaker 2: long as they're selling to the retailer or a place
Speaker 2: that has a liquor license.
Speaker 3: It's an easy fix.
Speaker 2: But instead we get, well, we got to do we
Speaker 2: got to ban this to protect the children. That's stupid.
Speaker 2: Scott's Flowing Show seven hundred WW it's got a weird
Speaker 2: Bengals who's there four straight yesterday? But it felt like
Speaker 2: a better loss. Does that make any sense? It doesn't,
Speaker 2: but it does if you're a Bengal fan. You know
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. More on that later in the show.
Speaker 2: Scott's Sloan Back with you on seven hundred WOLW State Centers.
Speaker 2: Steve Huffman on a few minutes ago, kind of laying
Speaker 2: things out where things stand with the CBD ban and
Speaker 2: how many people does this effect. It seems like a
Speaker 2: growing number. We're out. I was out this weekend, rolling
Speaker 2: out of my knee scooter and stopped in a place
Speaker 2: and the conversation with the bar turn It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we we we. Literally I've never seen any product come
Speaker 2: along as the takeover as quickly as the infused selters have, So, well,
Speaker 2: what's the plan with it going away? It's like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, we're going to sell all the stuff we
Speaker 2: can right now, and it's going to be a tough
Speaker 2: couple of months until I figured this thing out. So
Speaker 2: I feel for the retails, the producers. I mean, think
Speaker 2: about it. You just can't wake up one day. Okay,
Speaker 2: we've got the supply. Now you got to order the
Speaker 2: you know, there's there's things you have to order, the flavorings,
Speaker 2: all the ingredients in there, and then you make the
Speaker 2: product and it's got a short shelf life. It's not
Speaker 2: like you can just hold all these barrels in reserve.
Speaker 2: It's not like whiskey where that the longer sits at
Speaker 2: age is it's better, It's not the case at all.
Speaker 2: So I just wonder what these these retailers and specifically
Speaker 2: these companies that manufacture what they're going to wind up doing.
Speaker 2: Uh in the interim to I get this thing figured out,
Speaker 2: and as you'll get the economy. You know, certainly the
Speaker 2: statistics are much different than the fields. You don't want
Speaker 2: to see anything going, especially something in demand like that. Hey,
Speaker 2: real quick on the on the topic Tom in Indiana
Speaker 2: and the Scott Flown Show.
Speaker 6: Good morning, Good morning, How are you Scott?
Speaker 3: Well, how are you doing?
Speaker 6: I'm good.
Speaker 7: Hey, listen, your senator you just had on Now. Granted
Speaker 7: I understand this is an Ohio thing that I have
Speaker 7: family in Ohio. He is either very ignorant of the
Speaker 7: real facts about research on medical marijuana and marijuana you period,
Speaker 7: because in a two seconds search I found about forty
Speaker 7: articles places like Yale and the CDC and the net
Speaker 7: is due to health and all kinds of places. There
Speaker 7: is tons of research on this. So he's either ignorant
Speaker 7: or he's telling something.
Speaker 3: Well, a couple of different things.
Speaker 2: You looked at marijuana, but we're talking specifically about CBD.
Speaker 2: For a long time, marijuana.
Speaker 8: Wasn't research research on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, what I'm saying is the laws related.
Speaker 2: So what I'm saying is the long term research, and
Speaker 2: we don't have because it's as a relatively new thing.
Speaker 2: HEMP spent around for a long time, and because of
Speaker 2: the laws the way they are it, we don't have
Speaker 2: as much long term data on well, for example, fight
Speaker 2: products because it's a reletively new thing. And then the
Speaker 2: delta eight along with that.
Speaker 7: True, but you heard him say it. They want to
Speaker 7: put this into dispensaries. Why because the state doesn't want
Speaker 7: any competition. It's like just like distilled spirits. You know,
Speaker 7: you can't distill your own spirits because the government doesn't
Speaker 7: want competition. They want the tax.
Speaker 2: Mom, correct, yeah you can't. You can make your own beer.
Speaker 2: But in some areas they're actually trying to crack down.
Speaker 2: They're trying to crack down people making their own homebrew
Speaker 2: for crying out loud, and that's like, what are we
Speaker 2: doing here? Is it simply to control revenue? I think
Speaker 2: that I think that drives a part of this. I
Speaker 2: really do.
Speaker 7: Oh, I think it drives a great part of it.
Speaker 7: You know, if you leave anything in the Bible shows,
Speaker 7: you know, the Bible shows is the love of money
Speaker 7: is the root of all people. Well, you know, I
Speaker 7: think the government loves money, you know, because they want
Speaker 7: all of ours. They don't want anybody to make any
Speaker 7: extra without them getting their cut.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that may drive I just don't see.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's it's practical for if I want
Speaker 2: a I don't know, a seltzer to go to a
Speaker 2: CBD place and buy it, because people aren't thinking that way.
Speaker 2: It's more like, oh, I'm I'm sending here, I'm looking.
Speaker 2: I've got all these beer products and alcohol. I may
Speaker 2: try this flavor. It's not like you're going to go
Speaker 2: in there deliberately. It's just and if you want to
Speaker 2: destroy the whole industry, just do that. That's what they'll do,
Speaker 2: is just have it available only in the dispensary. No
Speaker 2: one's going to go into dispensary to buy these products
Speaker 2: like they would in the liquor store or somewhere else.
Speaker 3: It's just it's not done work that way.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 8: And an adult, I appreciate.
Speaker 3: Your thanks, Tom, appreciate you.
Speaker 2: You know, adults want to go in you go to
Speaker 2: a bar cycle Hey, I can have whiskey, I can
Speaker 2: have beer, I can have light beer. I can have
Speaker 2: all these different I can have one with higher alcohol.
Speaker 2: You go into places and they tell you what the
Speaker 2: ABV is, right, you know that Kentucky barrel al that's
Speaker 2: that they sit sell in a little glass because that
Speaker 2: stuff potent. That's like two beers and other stuff like
Speaker 2: mic ultra. You know, it's closer to water. I enjoyed
Speaker 2: mic culture like your golfing or something like that. That's fine,
Speaker 2: but you know it's low calorie. But it's also a
Speaker 2: low goo alcohol by volume. It depends what you're looking
Speaker 2: to do. I don't understand why this is such a
Speaker 2: big deal when it comes to to THC. You know
Speaker 2: the idea that you know sensa. Back in the sixties,
Speaker 2: the weed that we had was lots less potent than
Speaker 2: the weed today. Yeah, that's a good thing. That means
Speaker 2: we do have technology learning how to do things like
Speaker 2: hybrids for example, and growing and normally in every other area,
Speaker 2: go wow, we're getting way more yield, much more yield
Speaker 2: than we did yesterday. In America anywhere we celebrate that.
Speaker 2: And there's still some people that we'll talk about it
Speaker 2: is it's like it's a bad well you just well,
Speaker 2: you can't overdose on it, you just so you'll use
Speaker 2: less and get justice high. That seems like it's value
Speaker 2: to me, right, it's the American way as well. If
Speaker 2: we have a little bit of it, let's do more
Speaker 2: of it. And only when it comes to these guys,
Speaker 2: it's like a different story entirely the and not talking
Speaker 2: about Steve, but rather the the in this case, it's
Speaker 2: the House. And so Mike de Wine is trying to
Speaker 2: leverage and using this power to shut everything down, to
Speaker 2: force the UH, to force the House to do something
Speaker 2: and act on this. And you know, again we have
Speaker 2: I don't know why they're dragging their feet on it.
Speaker 2: I have I would imagine if I were to guess,
Speaker 2: it has somewhat to do with the Bible thumpers and
Speaker 2: that contingent that that that portion of the conservative base
Speaker 2: that don't like anything. I mean, if we're up to
Speaker 2: them to run things, it would be not much much
Speaker 2: different than probably what we're fighting against in the Middle East,
Speaker 2: and that would be you just simply aren't allowed to
Speaker 2: have any fun because God doesn't want that. I don't
Speaker 2: know who you are to interpret what God says, but
Speaker 2: we have enough people to believe that and I don't
Speaker 2: understand why you have to control the rest of us.
Speaker 2: It seems to me, if you don't want to go
Speaker 2: and use alcohol, you don't want to drink alcohol, you
Speaker 2: don't want to smoke marijuana, you don't want to have
Speaker 2: a CBD drink, you don't want to I don't know
Speaker 2: where a dress that doesn't cover your ankle, whatever the
Speaker 2: hell it is.
Speaker 3: It seems like, Okay, well you do that. That good
Speaker 3: for you.
Speaker 2: I celebrate your right to do that, but don't tell
Speaker 2: me what to do. And that's the problem. Busybodies generally
Speaker 2: the problem. Busy bodies to the vote even worse of
Speaker 2: a problem. Slowly A five point three seven four nine
Speaker 2: seven thousand, eight hundred The Big One Talkback iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2: You want to fire on the show this morning. Where
Speaker 2: are you on fragrances. I know there's a difference, but
Speaker 2: I think between like old spice, I don't really consider
Speaker 2: that a fragrance, like body washes and stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm talking about perfume.
Speaker 2: There's a fine line between smelling nice and clean and
Speaker 2: clearing out a room. It's a fine line, just a
Speaker 2: fine line. Perfume ads when you watch if you step
Speaker 2: back and watch the Fragrance ads. I don't know who
Speaker 2: they're designed to appeal. For a long time, I have
Speaker 2: no idea. I was like, who is that appealing to? Exactly?
Speaker 2: If you just watch the ad, because generally it's like
Speaker 2: some I don't know, bony women, effeminate men laying atop
Speaker 2: boulders and the beaches on fire, and.
Speaker 3: I have no idea.
Speaker 2: What what do you who's buying this stuff? I you
Speaker 2: look at it, go wow, that's the stuff. For me,
Speaker 2: it's just weird. And I guess it's because it's awfully
Speaker 2: hard to articulate in the words, what something smells like,
Speaker 2: So you do it by something that makes you go, boy,
Speaker 2: if I use any of these products, that makes me
Speaker 2: a weirdo. Yeah, countless people do. Look at the echo,
Speaker 2: what are you doing here? So in a way, it's
Speaker 2: kind of like the prescription drug ads. It can't I'll
Speaker 2: tell you what it does, but the list of side
Speaker 2: effects is as long as the ad itself. Like it's
Speaker 2: fifteen seconds to people dancing, you know, in a square,
Speaker 2: and they're in a food truck and they're dancing around.
Speaker 2: They seem awfully happy and singing about this miracle product
Speaker 2: that I have no idea what it's intended to cure.
Speaker 2: But I'm supposed to ask my physician if it's right
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Okay, I can't remember the name of this. I don't
Speaker 3: know what this is.
Speaker 2: Hey, is that you know that ad where that heavy
Speaker 2: set woman's dancing around and there's a tuba player and
Speaker 2: then there's some old guy throwing a football and they're
Speaker 2: having a picnic that you know, you know that, you
Speaker 2: know that?
Speaker 3: Is that right for me?
Speaker 2: I have no idea what you're talking about. Every one
Speaker 2: of the pharmaschol lads look like that Scott. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to ask you if it's right for me.
Speaker 2: They won't tell me what it does, but is it
Speaker 2: right for me? It's another weird ad. But the perfume
Speaker 2: ads are the ones that, like, I don't know why
Speaker 2: people are is this really attracting people to go buy
Speaker 2: this perfume? They're just so also just weird, like the
Speaker 2: perfume mad people are weird people. But now we have
Speaker 2: a breakthrough the fragrance industry. We have the hottest new trend.
Speaker 2: I'm waiting for the maybe the state legislature. I know
Speaker 2: how to ban this because people want it. Sense that
Speaker 2: smell like food not ever. Always kind of been around,
Speaker 2: but apparently it's like the huge thing right now. People
Speaker 2: wanting to smell like vanilla or pumpkin spice. Caramel swirl
Speaker 2: is a new scent. It's a mashup of notes that
Speaker 2: remind them of Missus Butterworth's syrup. That may be okay
Speaker 2: maybe in the winter, but I think this time of
Speaker 2: year where the yellowjackets and bees are doing what they
Speaker 2: getting ready to winter in, maybe that's not the best,
Speaker 2: not the best thing to wear if you're headed outside.
Speaker 2: Dove is partnering with Crumble Cookies on a lemon glazed
Speaker 2: body scrub, a confetti cake, a body washed Dunkin Donuts
Speaker 2: with a vanilla sprinkled deodorant, and a blueberry cobbler, Boston
Speaker 2: Cream mashup, Beth and Bodyworks and Milk Bar launching a
Speaker 2: collapse together. And you know, to me is a guy
Speaker 2: that to me is a long time. It's much more
Speaker 2: appealing than the weirdo is rolling around on boulders. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if if the idea heres, Hey, I want to smell
Speaker 2: really good and maybe somebody knows how I smell, and
Speaker 2: we become a get in a relationship, become attracted to
Speaker 2: each other, we become a couple, become a thing. And
Speaker 2: maybe you know that just down one whiff will get
Speaker 2: me gone if you really wanted to do that. Just
Speaker 2: if somebody would make a I don't know, a perfume
Speaker 2: that smelled like a pizza or I don't know, like
Speaker 2: b dubs or something like that like that would really
Speaker 2: think a guy'd go, all right, she's cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like that to me sounds like okay.
Speaker 2: It's smell you smelled delicious, Like telling someone they smelled delicious.
Speaker 2: It is a much much better compliment, like you're getting
Speaker 2: your attention because you smell like lilacs or something like that.
Speaker 2: The whole perfume thing, it's like you have a little
Speaker 2: bit you smell okay, you smell okay, but man, there's
Speaker 2: a finally you just don't need much more to go
Speaker 2: across that line, you know what I'm talking about. There
Speaker 2: people will come in and literally will set the smoke
Speaker 2: detectors off because they're wearing so much perfume like their
Speaker 2: olo factory senses. I don't know what happened to you
Speaker 2: if you're snorting acid when you're like talking about like
Speaker 2: hydrochloric acid when you're younger. I'm not quite sure. But
Speaker 2: then there's those people. I don't think I'd ever have
Speaker 2: that problem if you smell, because that you would never
Speaker 2: smell like too much pizza. If you had that kind
Speaker 2: of fragrance, you could douse yourself in the whole bottle
Speaker 2: and go. You'd walk in a run. People go, Wow,
Speaker 2: who brought pizza? Nope, just my scent, saying at the syrup,
Speaker 2: like syrup smells really good. Some of these weird. If
Speaker 2: you go to like the holidays once a year. I
Speaker 2: have to go to Christmas shopping. Only time I go
Speaker 2: to the mall and you walk into a Dillards or
Speaker 2: something that the perfume counter there not to hold my
Speaker 2: breath for a good thirty forty seconds because it will
Speaker 2: just knock me to my knees, because you have all
Speaker 2: these competing senses and it's just too much.
Speaker 3: It's overload. Yet I walk in the food court, I
Speaker 3: never want to leave. It's the difference. Quick time out.
Speaker 2: We've got news in about that ten and win a
Speaker 2: return of the show on seven hundred WLW. I've got
Speaker 2: Chris n I heist on. He's the CEO of Cincinnati
Speaker 2: Vigilance Cybersecurity. I don't know if you saw it last
Speaker 2: night after football sixty Minutes and it was think it
Speaker 2: was Leslie's stall or whatever it was. Maybe it was
Speaker 2: Scott Paley, I don't know, one of the sixty minutes people.
Speaker 2: They had a great story opening story about how China
Speaker 2: has infiltrated our critical infrastructure and the wake up call
Speaker 2: for us, and we've been talking about this for a while,
Speaker 2: but there were at least two hundred examples, two hundred
Speaker 2: cases where the Chinese have infiltrated things like our water
Speaker 2: treatment plants, our electrical grids, transportation, hospitals, talcom stuff like that.
Speaker 2: And the information coming out is pretty sobering. And what
Speaker 2: they're doing specifically, I mean, they're not hacking in and
Speaker 2: shutting systems down. They're lying dormant. They have the access
Speaker 2: to these systems, two hundred of them, which tells me
Speaker 2: if you found two hundred, how many are out there
Speaker 2: that we haven't found and they literally could shut things down. Now,
Speaker 2: the question is where in Cincinnati. If there's two hundred
Speaker 2: of them or more, you think there's got to be
Speaker 2: one near us. I mean which small municipality is now
Speaker 2: infiltrated by Chinese spyware that they can use against us
Speaker 2: if they need to, and a coordinated TAC for that matter.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's frightening as hell. It was one of
Speaker 2: the better things I think I've seen this year relative
Speaker 2: to a nice piece of investigative journalism. Is we've heard
Speaker 2: about that, we've talked about it. Say, yah, there's a
Speaker 2: couple of cases here. I mean, you know, somebody gets
Speaker 2: in cattering health for example, just a few months ago
Speaker 2: they had their issues, and it seems like every couple
Speaker 2: of months there's one locally that this happens.
Speaker 3: But that's just a bad state act.
Speaker 2: That's that's maybe not a state act or maybe state sponsored,
Speaker 2: but someone just trying to hold them hostage for money.
Speaker 2: This is a whole different matter entirely. This is like
Speaker 2: national security and literally shutting us down and our ability
Speaker 2: to function. Imagine what it would happen if they could
Speaker 2: shut the water supply now or poison our water because
Speaker 2: there's some chemicals that treat our water in small quantities,
Speaker 2: but in higher doses could be fatal and we wouldn't
Speaker 2: know it until well was actually happening. Absolutely fascinatingway. Chris
Speaker 2: na has is on that to talk about the real
Speaker 2: threat here and what's next and now, if we detected
Speaker 2: this stuff, how do we act against China? And maybe
Speaker 2: one of the other questions here too is you know,
Speaker 2: if China's doing that to us, are we doing that
Speaker 2: to China or other countries? Any answers probably yes, probably, yes,
Speaker 2: we'll get a time out in we'll talk to him
Speaker 2: about this. If you didn't see it last night, it
Speaker 2: certainly is compelling. And of course President Trump is making
Speaker 2: the realms I think in Egypt now or is about
Speaker 2: to to Egypt or about to arrive there, talking about
Speaker 2: the success of the Abraham Accords and what just happened
Speaker 2: between Palestine and Israel and can we have lasting peace?
Speaker 2: And how long will be before the United States is
Speaker 2: what we always do and just simply forget about them
Speaker 2: and find something other shiny ball or tennis ball to
Speaker 2: chase down the hall like a golden retriever with add
Speaker 2: and ignore this and let it all fall apart. We
Speaker 2: were really good, regardless of the administration at the time. We
Speaker 2: have a history of doing these things. We'll get peace,
Speaker 2: we'll fight for it, fight like dogs we'll broker, we'll
Speaker 2: get all that good, and then we'll simply walk away,
Speaker 2: and then it all falls.
Speaker 3: Apart and we do it over and over and over again.
Speaker 2: Anyway, we got to get the news, and hopefully this
Speaker 2: is a piece that lasts much much longer than even
Speaker 2: pragmatists like myself sick hope it lasts forever. It would
Speaker 2: be a nice thing, wouldn't it the very least, And
Speaker 2: even a suspension of this the killing, it's kind of
Speaker 2: refreshing considering what's happened.
Speaker 3: For the last two years.
Speaker 2: We'll do news and more to follow slowly with you
Speaker 2: on this Monday morning home of the best Bengals coverage,
Speaker 2: seven hundred ww SINCNTI.
Speaker 1: Want to be an American idiot.
Speaker 2: Go building one to night. Do you see Lost on
Speaker 2: Saturday or one on Saturday? The loss today on the Loss,
Speaker 2: of course, is Jim Kelly Junior past Way at seventy two.
Speaker 3: I've been fighting cancer a long time.
Speaker 2: I was enjoyed listening to Jim along with Dan Horde
Speaker 2: for what the last twenty years as the color analyst
Speaker 2: for the UC Bearcats, and just so sad to hear
Speaker 2: because he's such a good guy. But our thoughts in
Speaker 2: pairs with that, Jim and his family, everyone in the
Speaker 2: Bearcat family as well. Sloane here on seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 2: If you watch the Bengals last night, lose, but lose
Speaker 2: in a better way. Typically what you dose you hang
Speaker 2: on for a minute before you cut over to NBC
Speaker 2: and watch our boy talk about well last night's gale.
Speaker 2: I didn't say I watched the whole thing in Kansas
Speaker 2: City wind up winning last night, But you watch sixty
Speaker 2: minutes on CBS and you always catch like the first
Speaker 2: couple of minutes. I thought last night they had a
Speaker 2: fascinating story on about China our front of me. China
Speaker 2: has infiltrated some two hundred critical infrastructure operations in the US.
Speaker 2: Water treatment plants, electrical grids, transportation, hospitals, telecommunications. Pretty scary
Speaker 2: stuff that the incursions, these intrusions have been going on
Speaker 2: for a while now and we haven't done anything about it.
Speaker 2: Why because we're getting intel on what the Chinese may
Speaker 2: or may not do as they can control some of
Speaker 2: our critical infrastructure. We've talked about this before, but I
Speaker 2: think when you start to hear two hundred or more
Speaker 2: facilities in America could be under Chinese control in a
Speaker 2: couple of keystrokes. That is a huge wake up call,
Speaker 2: going what if they're doing this on sixty minutes? We
Speaker 2: know the government's known about it for a while, and
Speaker 2: we're allowing this to continue. And what happens in the
Speaker 2: future on that is that Chris naiheis. Chris is the
Speaker 2: CEO of Vigilant Cybersecurity here in Cincinnati. Chris, welcome back,
Speaker 2: are you.
Speaker 5: Hiks, Scott.
Speaker 6: I'm doing great.
Speaker 2: I'm well un till I saw this thing last night
Speaker 2: after football for the Bengals loss. I'm like, well, wait,
Speaker 2: what's going on here? So the idea here is that
Speaker 2: China is lying dormant in two hundred these things. And
Speaker 2: I think it was like a small some small town
Speaker 2: in Massachusets. I forget where that it turned out. The
Speaker 2: FBI shows up and tells the operator, the guy who's
Speaker 2: in charge of it, Hey, listen, the Chinese have taken
Speaker 2: control of your facility. You don't know that, but the
Speaker 2: Chinese have digital control of your facility. So we know
Speaker 2: that everything now is plug and play and it's the
Speaker 2: Internet of things, and everything is controlled remotely and electronics.
Speaker 2: So before we branch off into what they're doing and
Speaker 2: how they're doing it. A water treatment plant, what could
Speaker 2: go wrong if the computers are under control of the
Speaker 2: Chinese and a water treatment.
Speaker 6: Plant right sis the Littleton, Massachusetts, and a lot can
Speaker 6: go wrong. Actually, I mean inside these water treatment plants,
Speaker 6: you have different vats of chemicals. Those chemicals are mixed
Speaker 6: together in different varying levels. You have fluoride, you have
Speaker 6: all kinds of different things in there, chlorine. Those are
Speaker 6: mixed together very precisely to make sure that the water
Speaker 6: that we drank is clean, purify, it's refreshed when it
Speaker 6: gets to us. If those systems, or the chemical interactions,
Speaker 6: or even just the mounts the measurements are put into
Speaker 6: water differently, it could be catastrophic. It can make our
Speaker 6: water undrinkable, untenable, it could be it could make poisonous. Uh,
Speaker 6: there's there's a lot of different things that can happen
Speaker 6: inside a water treating plant.
Speaker 3: And that's just a small town.
Speaker 2: But imagine the massive sterea of a town of I
Speaker 2: don't know if that ten twenty thousand people, If all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, your water's poisonous, and we would know
Speaker 2: it because they program everything to make it look like
Speaker 2: the tests are fine. I don't know if they do
Speaker 2: physical manual tests and how often they do that. I
Speaker 2: don't know the inter workings of water dream and PLA
Speaker 2: would think so that somebody's going, hey there's something with
Speaker 2: the right but it'd be too late for some people
Speaker 2: who are drinking poison water.
Speaker 5: That would be way too late.
Speaker 6: And then the problem with the two is, I mean,
Speaker 6: if you look at the way water works. We pump
Speaker 6: water into our water towers, that creates the water pressure
Speaker 6: into our cities, but you'd have the entire system would
Speaker 6: be contaminated. And you know, it just makes even if
Speaker 6: even if no one drank it, even if the system
Speaker 6: was contaminated, you have you have a major problem. And
Speaker 6: to your point, you know they're doing so much automation.
Speaker 6: Now you know all all of the chemical you know,
Speaker 6: you know the chemical measurements, the purification, it's all it's
Speaker 6: all automated. The testing is mostly automated. They do spot
Speaker 6: checks and things like that, but there's sensors throughout the
Speaker 6: entire line that determine temperature, it determines there's different chemicals.
Speaker 6: I mean, you've even seen recently where they can see
Speaker 6: if COVID is spiking up inside you know, different cities
Speaker 6: because of what's coming in to waste treatment plants. So
Speaker 6: there's there's a lot of different sensors there, but like
Speaker 6: you said, those sensors can be modified so that that
Speaker 6: way it gives incorrect information and then people don't know,
Speaker 6: you know, the monitors aren't going to trigger off.
Speaker 2: That's something you can make boiling water look like it's
Speaker 2: freezing water based on what the what the sensor's on,
Speaker 2: to reprogram all that stuff, and no one to know
Speaker 2: until it's all sadly too late and you got to
Speaker 2: shut them and go down and figure out what's happening.
Speaker 2: And that's just in one small town in Massachusetts, and
Speaker 2: then there's at least one hundred and ninety nine others
Speaker 2: and other water treatment plants, but electrical goods, transportation, hospitals,
Speaker 2: all these things I mentioned, And what's interesting about it
Speaker 2: is there they said there's about two hundred that they've
Speaker 2: identified since twenty twenty three. I suspect, like anything, the
Speaker 2: two hundred the most obvious ones. How many more do
Speaker 2: you think are out there?
Speaker 6: Oh? I would say in every critical city, we work
Speaker 6: a lot in critical infrastructure, A lot of my background
Speaker 6: is in critical infrastructure, and you know, even back in
Speaker 6: the early two thousands, I was working with them money
Speaker 6: control systems and you could see that those systems were
Speaker 6: trying to be attacked, and I would say that was
Speaker 6: my wake up call. That you know, not wake up call,
Speaker 6: but at the moment I realized how evil this could
Speaker 6: be because in those situations, what we were seeing is
Speaker 6: someone attacking back then our Windows ninety five systems, and
Speaker 6: they were attacking these really old operating systems. It was,
Speaker 6: you know, not old at the time, but these systems
Speaker 6: were connected to these valves that could you know, from
Speaker 6: the system, you could open a valve and it would
Speaker 6: be a release valve. You could release ammonia, and ammonia
Speaker 6: actually can melt people's lungs. So you know, when I
Speaker 6: saw that happen, like whoa wait a second. And that's
Speaker 6: what really made me get into this industry because for me,
Speaker 6: it's about making sure that we protect the United States right,
Speaker 6: and one of the things we have to be really
Speaker 6: aware of is that we're not doing a great job
Speaker 6: of it because they're everywhere so well.
Speaker 2: The problem is this right we have decentralize unlike China,
Speaker 2: everything's centralized in China. Here it's decentralized. So you've got
Speaker 2: small municipalities, and I'm guessing that a lot of these
Speaker 2: two hundred chris are small municipalities that don't have the budget.
Speaker 2: And you know, fifty grand to them may not be
Speaker 2: a lot to the state of Ohio or the United
Speaker 2: States of America, but fifty grand to a small community
Speaker 2: is a lot of money. That's what it costs us
Speaker 2: one small town to redo all their infrastructure to essentially
Speaker 2: make what the Chinese did moot. And on top of that,
Speaker 2: you know, paying for new equipment and getting taxpayers to
Speaker 2: put the money for the latest and greatest servers and
Speaker 2: technology isn't always an easy sell. People don't make that
Speaker 2: connection until while it's too late. We don't want to
Speaker 2: spend that time. Why are we spending more money. We
Speaker 2: just updated these computers and our systems have been updated,
Speaker 2: and we don't need to do that anywhere. Why are
Speaker 2: we spending so much on people like, for example, the
Speaker 2: contract with vigil and cybersecurity.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a huge cost item right there, and.
Speaker 2: So we tend to cut away all of that help
Speaker 2: and all those people in safety Net and then something
Speaker 2: like this happens and we want more of it.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 6: Well, see, here's the problem is that i'll and I'll
Speaker 6: make some bold statements here. You know, we talked about
Speaker 6: before you got to wonder you know why. You know,
Speaker 6: like the average time it takes to detect the threat.
Speaker 6: Un Bising comes up with the report every year. It's
Speaker 6: a great report, but the average time it takes the
Speaker 6: detective threat today someone comes into your environment. The average
Speaker 6: time it takes for most cybersecurity technologies, right, this is
Speaker 6: the average, right, two and eighty seven days, right. And
Speaker 6: so the biggest problem is that a lot of companies
Speaker 6: are buying technology that seems to work because it's a
Speaker 6: brand name, we're a big non name, but it doesn't
Speaker 6: actually do what it's supposed to. And so you end
Speaker 6: up with these hackers and these environments that are there forever,
Speaker 6: and what they really want to do in any warfare
Speaker 6: scenario is they want persistence. So what happens is these
Speaker 6: attackers come in, they trigger an event so that your
Speaker 6: security systems see it, you go do an inctant response.
Speaker 6: But what they're really doing is they're embedding themselves per
Speaker 6: persistence for later. While they're triggering a fake incident, right
Speaker 6: or a real incident that you go work. The second
Speaker 6: problem is that companies, you know, use their security technologies
Speaker 6: that they use as badges, and the security companies that
Speaker 6: work with them also use them as badges. So what
Speaker 6: I mean by that is, you know, they'll put their
Speaker 6: logos up on their website, they'll you know, the security
Speaker 6: providers will do that. So that tells you the hacker
Speaker 6: exactly what technology is used. And then the third thing
Speaker 6: that happens, especially in these municipalities, is when they're buying things,
Speaker 6: they're buying things under committee or approval with their cities municipalities,
Speaker 6: and so those are all open meetings, and so if
Speaker 6: I'm a Chinese threat actor, I can come in, I
Speaker 6: can know exactly I mean, in the state of California,
Speaker 6: you can go out. There's a law that requires them
Speaker 6: to do this. It lists everything any city, every single
Speaker 6: technology they buy was from a cyber standpoint, is on
Speaker 6: a list, so they can an attacker can easily go
Speaker 6: to a water treatment plant see exactly what they use,
Speaker 6: and they just they just know how to attack them.
Speaker 6: So the you wrap all that up, and I think
Speaker 6: here in the United States we don't understand warfare in
Speaker 6: the private sector very well. And in China they do,
Speaker 6: and in Russia they do. Outside US they do. We
Speaker 6: just don't understand it here because we US citizens are
Speaker 6: so comfortable with not interfacing with evil, right well.
Speaker 2: Because we are commerce right, small businesses, We're we're business people,
Speaker 2: so we understand that we don't see that as you know,
Speaker 2: the competition, but not in the arena that the Chinese
Speaker 2: do because of that centralization element too. And so Chris
Speaker 2: nineheis is here CEO of vigil and Cybersecurity, in the
Speaker 2: sixty minutes thing last night, that there's some two hundred
Speaker 2: plus critical infrastructure operations. We're talking electrical, we're talking water
Speaker 2: treatment plants and the like that essentially are under Chinese control.
Speaker 2: And so what they did is they've infiltrated that infrastructure
Speaker 2: and now they're just laying dormant. They're not shutting it
Speaker 2: down like some I don't know, if you have malware,
Speaker 2: which we've talked about before in the past, right you
Speaker 2: shut them down cattering health for example, pay me my
Speaker 2: money and I'll open everything back up.
Speaker 3: Or maybe not.
Speaker 2: Some other actor gets in there and just wants to
Speaker 2: be disruptive and destroy things and shut it down and
Speaker 2: put some sort of political or anti state message on
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. We've seen that this is different.
Speaker 2: They're actually lying in wait. It's like a trojan horse.
Speaker 2: They're watching what you're doing online. They're watching the systems
Speaker 2: that you have in place and in the future if
Speaker 2: they need to, when they need to, when they will,
Speaker 2: they will by doing all the stuff we talked about,
Speaker 2: and multiply that by hundreds more. And you've got real
Speaker 2: problems here in America that they're sitting there just watching
Speaker 2: and wait and lying dormant, and our own infrastructure and
Speaker 2: most of us have no idea they're there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, right, And the reason you know, you and you know,
Speaker 6: we don't know all the details of Littleton, but you
Speaker 6: know we spent fifty thousand dollars to rebuild his network.
Speaker 6: I would say he didn't really he may not have
Speaker 6: actually even had to do that if he had the
Speaker 6: ability to see what was what was embedded. As in
Speaker 6: this environment, you don't have to swap out all of
Speaker 6: your systems, but if you don't have the ability to
Speaker 6: see what's there, then you do. You have to start
Speaker 6: all over. But the big problem there is he may
Speaker 6: not know how they actually got in, so he may
Speaker 6: have just rebuilt his entire environment. And this happens with
Speaker 6: a lot of companies. I'm not saying that Littleton did this,
Speaker 6: but they'll rebuild their whole environment. They don't know exactly
Speaker 6: how they actor got in, and then they get in
Speaker 6: again and they just wasted all that money. Oh god, yeah,
Speaker 6: you know. And yeah, right. The other thing too, Scott,
Speaker 6: that happens and this is this happens with a lot
Speaker 6: of our power generators. A lot of those does come
Speaker 6: from China, right, they have a better you know, the
Speaker 6: transformers things like that, they have a year and a
Speaker 6: half way time to get those We've already found you know,
Speaker 6: when they when those things have come in. Not we vigilant,
Speaker 6: but you know particularly but you as government has found
Speaker 6: that there's malware inside those systems already. Right, Uh, just
Speaker 6: straight out, straight straight coming over. So the thing that
Speaker 6: we we just have to be a lot more aware
Speaker 6: of is that, uh, you know, we're going down a
Speaker 6: path that we have all these back doors in a
Speaker 6: critical comfrastruction. Now I'll say this, now we have that
Speaker 6: as well, right, so you know, we do the same
Speaker 6: thing around the world, you know, and we're doing.
Speaker 3: What they're doing, right. That's so that's why I went here,
Speaker 3: is like, well, we're doing it too, but.
Speaker 6: It doesn't make it better, No, no, because I get
Speaker 6: on our side. Yeah, I think for us to be
Speaker 6: embedded over there, totally get it. We want to. It's
Speaker 6: like an arms race, right who could be embedded the
Speaker 6: most because in any case, it's whoever can hit the
Speaker 6: button first, right, and and there's a couple of different
Speaker 6: things that can take place in that. But the big
Speaker 6: thing is to realize is that you know, this, this
Speaker 6: is a this is the hidden war, and cyber warfare
Speaker 6: has already happened. We're already in that, but you know,
Speaker 6: most of us don't realize it. And in the critical
Speaker 6: infrastructure world or even the you know, the small business,
Speaker 6: medium sized business world in the United States, it makes
Speaker 6: up like eighty percent of our financial stability here in
Speaker 6: the US. And so you know, if you want to
Speaker 6: take out hospitals, go and bed yourself in hospitals. You
Speaker 6: want to take out water, go and bed yourself in water.
Speaker 6: You want to take out the financial sector, the United States,
Speaker 6: go after small medium sized businesses that normally don't have
Speaker 6: the protection they need, right, right, and then you just
Speaker 6: took down the entire country and.
Speaker 2: You do it with some keystrokes. You don't fire one shot,
Speaker 2: but you do it remotely via computer. So we had
Speaker 2: two hundred of these infrastructure operations that were a compromised, right,
Speaker 2: And now it's on sixty minutes. And I'm guessing that
Speaker 2: the Chinese have known that We've known about this for
Speaker 2: a while before it gets on sixty most sure, right,
Speaker 2: So yeah, in the month, in the months that that's happened,
Speaker 2: where our years even where they're exposed that and moved,
Speaker 2: what's that? What's happening right now as we speak? Then
Speaker 2: more of the same, less of the same or a
Speaker 2: different same.
Speaker 6: It's more the same, yeah, I mean it's you know
Speaker 6: the Yeah, it's just it just continues on and inside
Speaker 6: these environments, that's where worker happens. We we found this
Speaker 6: was a couple years back, we found a Chinese threacture
Speaker 6: group that bounced through the United States UH entity out
Speaker 6: to another country, right, And what they were trying to
Speaker 6: make it look like is that the attack was coming
Speaker 6: from the United States to that other country. So the
Speaker 6: you know, you have that issue as well, is where
Speaker 6: you know, China will act like Russia. Russill act like
Speaker 6: China ran axt right like Russia. You know, you're trying
Speaker 6: to really tie it back to whoever is actually really attacking, right,
Speaker 6: But the big key here and you you mentioned as well,
Speaker 6: you mentioned kettering health. Right, we've seemed significant aspects where
Speaker 6: malware is, you know, in ransomware is used to come
Speaker 6: into an environment, create a distraction, and then allow people
Speaker 6: to be embedded. And most, like I was saying, most
Speaker 6: security technology out there is built to detect things that
Speaker 6: it knows about, not to always detect things that are unknown.
Speaker 6: So if you can attack someone embed yourself in a
Speaker 6: way that isn't known yet or isn't detectable yet, you
Speaker 6: can hide and wait. And especially if it's like a
Speaker 6: you know, in a triggered thing that's based on a timer,
Speaker 6: like maybe that connection reaches back out every month or
Speaker 6: every two months. You know, it's a single ping in
Speaker 6: the midst of millions of connections. It's really hard to find.
Speaker 6: So you know, a lot of the ransomware or malware,
Speaker 6: those are the things like if you're an organization, you've
Speaker 6: had ransomware or malware just fighting that is not the
Speaker 6: end of your back You now have to comb through
Speaker 6: your infrastructure and find out is there a back door
Speaker 6: that was put in during that attack, because you know, ransomware,
Speaker 6: like I said, is being used a lot. Is just
Speaker 6: that distraction now and you know and also too it's
Speaker 6: funding terrorism. You know, they just put these groups do
Speaker 6: they come in, they do ransomware, they fund terrorism, they
Speaker 6: create a backdoor, and now they're embedded.
Speaker 3: And they'll be to continue can and mouse game like this.
Speaker 2: And in the fear, of course, is one day if
Speaker 2: if we are at odds and a war with the
Speaker 2: Chinese or whatever transpire, they they can shut down a
Speaker 2: significant portion of of what it is we have our infrastructure.
Speaker 6: And if you tease, will they be able to execute
Speaker 6: that plan? I mean, I think we're already seeing some
Speaker 6: of that. I think Colonial Pipeline was a good example
Speaker 6: of that. You know a few years ago, and I
Speaker 6: talked about that.
Speaker 5: You know, there.
Speaker 6: Were you know, there's there's inside of these pipelines, there's sensors.
Speaker 6: You can take over the sensors, you can heat them
Speaker 6: up and explode the pipeline. You know, like I said earlier,
Speaker 6: money control system, water water treatment plants, I think when
Speaker 6: we when we see these isolated attacks, you know, quote
Speaker 6: unquote isolated attacks, I think that those are just tests, right,
Speaker 6: I think they're hey, how far can we go? Right?
Speaker 6: I mean we and again you see those things happening
Speaker 6: around the world. I think we do our own tests also,
Speaker 6: you know, uh, you know, but you know, and it's
Speaker 6: just to show each other, Hey, I'm here and I
Speaker 6: can do that. But I think in the United States
Speaker 6: we have to be much more careful and aware that
Speaker 6: just putting the security technology in doesn't mean that it's
Speaker 6: going to find what we're actually looking for. And we
Speaker 6: have to be much more educated as business owners into
Speaker 6: what is really happening in our environments, especially if we
Speaker 6: support companies like a General Electric. You know, if you're
Speaker 6: a city, if you're a community, a business here in
Speaker 6: Cincinnati that supports General Electric, highly likely you're going to
Speaker 6: get attacked before they will because they'll try to come
Speaker 6: through you to get to them, right ye uh. You know,
Speaker 6: Especially if you're an HVAC company or you're a you know,
Speaker 6: you're you're you're you're you're building plans for them, you know,
Speaker 6: to build out a facility or whatever. Highly likely you're
Speaker 6: you're going to get attacked. If you are a business
Speaker 6: that creates a part for you know, a defense industry
Speaker 6: or for uh parttery gamble, right, that's really critical to
Speaker 6: their system, chances are you're going to be attacked and
Speaker 6: and so got it. You have to be a lot
Speaker 6: more hyper aware. You know that that what?
Speaker 5: Yeah? So got it?
Speaker 2: He's Chris Nihi, CEO of Cincidna based Vigilant Cybersecurity. Go
Speaker 2: to the CBS or sixty minutes so you can watch
Speaker 2: this whole piece. It really is fascinated, uh in how
Speaker 2: embedded the Chinese air system? Chris, all the best, Thanks again,
Speaker 2: thank you, Scott all right, being well, got to get
Speaker 2: the news running late. Just a few minutes away, we
Speaker 2: got Julie age Mental Health Monday here next. If you're
Speaker 2: a procrastinator, she's going to be talking about you and
Speaker 2: to you. Just ahead on seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 7: Everyone needs help every now and then, and she's here
Speaker 7: to help us get our heads right.
Speaker 2: This is Mental Health Monday with mental health expert Julie Hettershire.
Speaker 2: I love this topic especially you heard of paralysis by analysis,
Speaker 2: overthinking and overthinking and thinking and thinking and thinking and
Speaker 2: then thinking some more and then not doing anything. How
Speaker 2: do you convert that into action from a place of inaction?
Speaker 3: Julie is here.
Speaker 2: It's Mental Health Monday on the Scottslan Show on seven
Speaker 2: hundred ww if she's a licensed mental health therapist here
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati and Clifton, And welcome back.
Speaker 3: How's your week? Everything good?
Speaker 9: Hey, everything's great?
Speaker 6: How about you?
Speaker 3: Everything's fine? Thank you? We overthinking things?
Speaker 5: Wait?
Speaker 3: I think do most people tend to be overthinking?
Speaker 2: It seems like very few people are, like Trump, for example,
Speaker 2: watching the motorcade arrive in Egypt for the peace summit,
Speaker 2: and there's a guy who's very decisive, right, we love
Speaker 2: him or hate him. You look at him, go, he's
Speaker 2: gonna make a decision. He's gonna go this is it.
Speaker 2: And even if it's the wrong decision, I'll never admit that.
Speaker 2: He says, I make a decision. I'm moving on to
Speaker 2: something else. Very few people have that ability, don't they?
Speaker 9: Well, And I'm not sure that we would want a
Speaker 9: whole lot of people to be that that decisive, right, right?
Speaker 9: We kind of want people who give things some thought
Speaker 9: and some consideration and an appropriate amount of due diligence
Speaker 9: and research. But there are people who tend to be
Speaker 9: more decisive slash impulsive, and people who tend to be
Speaker 9: more conscientious slash overthinkers slash anxious, And that's sort of
Speaker 9: what we're talking about today. I tend to fall on
Speaker 9: the more decisive impulsive end of the spectrum.
Speaker 8: How about you?
Speaker 2: I have no It depends on the day, depends on
Speaker 2: the situation. Like there's some things I want to do,
Speaker 2: it's like long term, but other stuff keep getting in
Speaker 2: the way of me doing that.
Speaker 3: Or maybe that's an excuse. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I go, well, I got all this other I want
Speaker 2: to do this, this and this, but I haven't done
Speaker 2: it in a while because I've got all this other
Speaker 2: stuff going on. Well, how do you categorize that?
Speaker 9: Well, so, is that being too busy or is that
Speaker 9: getting stuck in a loop inside your head and not
Speaker 9: moving off square one because you're thinking too.
Speaker 5: Hard about it?
Speaker 2: Probably probably a lot of Probably a lot of it. Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's busy, but it's like I have an excuse. It's
Speaker 2: cover right, is it not doing something going I don't know.
Speaker 2: I should do this, but I don't know if I
Speaker 2: really want to do it. And maybe that's also part
Speaker 2: of it too, is just as meaning you know what,
Speaker 2: Other than saying no, it's just not right for me,
Speaker 2: you can procrastinate more and pretend to be I'm too
Speaker 2: busy to be decisive.
Speaker 9: Yes, So overthinking can lead to procrastination, and procrastination can
Speaker 9: partly be caused by overthinking. There are other reasons people procrastinate.
Speaker 9: But when we're talking about overthinking, what we're really talking
Speaker 9: about is people who get stuck in this loop inside
Speaker 9: their head and have a hard time making any kind
Speaker 9: of remove on a topic or in any area of
Speaker 9: their life because they're thinking through all of the what ifs,
Speaker 9: all of the worst case scenarios. They're doing research on
Speaker 9: every possible option out there, and as we know, there
Speaker 9: are a million billion possible options in the world for
Speaker 9: almost anything we want. And these are people who just
Speaker 9: get stuck and can't seem to move and get so
Speaker 9: worked up about any decision they make and at having
Speaker 9: to be perfect or go exactly right that they end
Speaker 9: up not doing things that they otherwise would want to do.
Speaker 2: Okay, so what you're saying is it's pretty common to
Speaker 2: have those things where if there's things in life, a
Speaker 2: few things where you're like I'll just kick the cad
Speaker 2: and then it starts to encompass everything in life. Can't
Speaker 2: make a decision on like you know what flavor coffee
Speaker 2: I want this morning, or if I'm super solid with
Speaker 2: by Lodge. You can't make a decision on anything. That's
Speaker 2: a problem.
Speaker 9: Yes, I have a client I've been working with for
Speaker 9: a while, a couple, and one of them is stuck
Speaker 9: on what they're going to tile their bathroom with. And
Speaker 9: their bathroom has been in a state of disrepair for
Speaker 9: weeks and weeks and weeks because she can't make up
Speaker 9: her mind about what Chile to put in the bathroom.
Speaker 9: She always has to look at other options and what
Speaker 9: if there's something better out there, and what if this
Speaker 9: doesn't hold up as well? Or what if I get
Speaker 9: tired of the color, And so their bathroom has been
Speaker 9: largely unusable for weeks longer than it needed to be
Speaker 9: because she can't commit to a tile choice.
Speaker 2: It's that kind of thing, easy, black and white, timeless next.
Speaker 6: Exactly.
Speaker 9: See, that's where your decisive, That's where I would be decisive.
Speaker 9: That's where somebody who's prone to overthinking get stuck in
Speaker 9: a loop about it needing to be the right.
Speaker 3: Decision, Yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 9: And not knowing what the right decision is.
Speaker 3: There's no right decision. Just pick one and go with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just to do something simple and the time white
Speaker 2: and black always will be timeless.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 2: If you want to get in like gold colored, then
Speaker 2: that's that's going to be short her shelf life. But
Speaker 2: black and white will always be in at some point.
Speaker 2: So where does that come from though? Why does it happen?
Speaker 6: Well, a couple of things.
Speaker 9: People who are prone to anxiety and prone to be
Speaker 9: more conscient tend to be overthinkers, and we understand that
Speaker 9: that's a temperament that comes very early in life, almost
Speaker 9: from birth, the tendency toward anxiety and conscientiousness. But also
Speaker 9: there have been people whose past life experiences have led
Speaker 9: them to believe that making the wrong decision has really
Speaker 9: awful consequences. And you know, like parents who would say regularly,
Speaker 9: what were you thinking? Why didn't you think that through enough?
Speaker 9: It would have gone so much better if you'd thought
Speaker 9: that through. Maybe true, But also what that message is
Speaker 9: is if you think hard enough, you'll find the right
Speaker 9: decision and things won't go wrong versus Okay, so this
Speaker 9: went wrong. What can you do differently next time? How
Speaker 9: can you salvage this? Not about the recovery, but about
Speaker 9: presenting it in the first place. So people who've had
Speaker 9: life experiences that weren't really badly when they didn't think
Speaker 9: things through enough tend to be.
Speaker 2: Gunshy, gotcha, because there's consequences fear of failure.
Speaker 9: Fear of failure exactly, lack of belief in self to
Speaker 9: be able to deal with whatever consequences come their way.
Speaker 9: So one of the things that I say often is
Speaker 9: I'm an adult with a cell phone and a credit card.
Speaker 9: I can make almost anything happen. And you know, really,
Speaker 9: I can make almost anything happen. So from my perspective,
Speaker 9: if something doesn't go according to plan, I can regroup,
Speaker 9: I can think, I can pivot, I can come up
Speaker 9: with something else. That's my perception. But other people don't
Speaker 9: necessarily have that mindset, And if they don't believe in
Speaker 9: themselves to be able to pivot, and they haven't had
Speaker 9: enough failure to learn that they actually can recover from it,
Speaker 9: the idea of failure can prevent them from taking any
Speaker 9: kind of action in the first place.
Speaker 2: Well, you just had a raw nerve there talking to
Speaker 2: friends this weekend and one of them's involved. And I
Speaker 2: want to say the business name names here. But we
Speaker 2: have a generation of people in the workplace and high
Speaker 2: level positions there are a fear of any criticism whatsoever,
Speaker 2: like as much as like, hey, you know you've got
Speaker 2: the wrong name, I don't know, some sort of report,
Speaker 2: let's say, and you know, they lose their mind, like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I've been criticized, and now they call
Speaker 2: Michelle and hr is involved. I mean, I'm not exaggerating,
Speaker 2: that's actually happening. And that's frightening. Like literally, you're at
Speaker 2: a job and you're meeting with people and someone your
Speaker 2: superior says, hey, listen, you made a mistake on this.
Speaker 3: Can you fix it?
Speaker 2: And it turns into some sort of attack on their
Speaker 2: big can't take criticism at all. And we've got workplaces
Speaker 2: full of people like that. That's scary as hell. Not
Speaker 2: to diminish the topicking out in the weeds here, but
Speaker 2: that's more common than people would think.
Speaker 9: It's very common. And when you have a workplace that
Speaker 9: values perfectionism over innovation, over novelty, over experimentation, over doing
Speaker 9: something imperfect in a timely manner, and moving forward. Then
Speaker 9: it creates and sustains this belief that everything has to
Speaker 9: be exactly as expected in order for it to be good,
Speaker 9: and the consequences are dire if not. And again, if
Speaker 9: you have someone or a generation of people who haven't
Speaker 9: really been allowed to fail because they were raised by
Speaker 9: helicopter parents or snowplow parents, then the idea of failure
Speaker 9: becomes outsized to the reality of it. You know, we've
Speaker 9: all screwed things up and we've all had to pivot
Speaker 9: and make amends and figure it out. But the idea
Speaker 9: of failure becomes so outsized to the reality of it
Speaker 9: that they get stuck in their heads on this endless
Speaker 9: loop of I have to do more research, I have
Speaker 9: to do more research, I have to read this again,
Speaker 9: I have to edit this again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't have to be perfect, but you got
Speaker 3: to make a decision.
Speaker 2: Julie how to share our licensed mental health therapist, Mental
Speaker 2: Health Monday and the Scott Sloan Show. It's paralysis by analysis.
Speaker 2: People will overthink and how you stop overthinking and take
Speaker 2: action as what we're talking about. Okay, so we got
Speaker 2: into the whys and how big it is it? How
Speaker 2: do you break the cycle.
Speaker 9: Well, there are a couple things you can do.
Speaker 8: There are a few things.
Speaker 9: One of the things that I really like to counsel
Speaker 9: people to do is set a time limit for when
Speaker 9: you're going to make a decision. I'm going to research
Speaker 9: so to use the tile example, I'm going to research
Speaker 9: tile over the weekend, and by Monday, I'm going to
Speaker 9: have a decision that.
Speaker 6: Is placed in order.
Speaker 9: So set yourself a time limit that you choose to
Speaker 9: adhere to that gives you some sense of urgency, gives
Speaker 9: you some time to do the research and the thinking
Speaker 9: that you need, but doesn't keep you stuck in that loop.
Speaker 9: Another thing that can really be helpful is focusing on
Speaker 9: just the next step. People who overthink tend to think
Speaker 9: seventeen steps down the road. So I'll do this, and
Speaker 9: then I'll do this, and then I'll go like this,
Speaker 9: and then I'll go like this, and they're trying to
Speaker 9: predict the outcome. Focusing on the next step. We don't
Speaker 9: need to see the whole ladder. We don't need to
Speaker 9: see the whole road. We just need to take the
Speaker 9: next step up or down the road can be really
Speaker 9: helpful too, because that is a more manageable chunk of
Speaker 9: information and a more manageable chunk of it action for
Speaker 9: people to deal with, then the entire project. You know,
Speaker 9: the question, how do you need an elephant one bite
Speaker 9: at a time. You have to just take these small
Speaker 9: chunks that can be helpful too, Okay.
Speaker 2: Break things down in yeah. Like the tile example is like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: let's just focus on the floor tile.
Speaker 3: Let's pick that and go out for it rather than
Speaker 3: everything else.
Speaker 9: Got it right, exactly. Another thing that happens when people
Speaker 9: get into this overthinking anxiety loop is they think worst
Speaker 9: case scenario and they think of all the things that
Speaker 9: could go wrong. And so what we know about our
Speaker 9: brains is if they try not to think of the
Speaker 9: things that could go wrong. If we're wired to think
Speaker 9: worst case scenario and we try not to, that doesn't
Speaker 9: work very well. So what I tell my clients to
Speaker 9: do is you're allowed to think of the worst case scenario,
Speaker 9: and then you have to think of at least three
Speaker 9: other things that are not the worst case scenario. So
Speaker 9: go worst case first, and then broaden your thinking to
Speaker 9: think of three other possible comes that aren't that, just
Speaker 9: to broaden the idea that it could be this, but
Speaker 9: it could be this, or it could be the other,
Speaker 9: or it could be this other thing. Okay, broadening that
Speaker 9: scope helps.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So also does the fact that if you just make
Speaker 2: a bunch of small decisions that then do you get
Speaker 2: confidence making bigger decisions.
Speaker 3: Does it work that.
Speaker 9: Way, Yes, yes it does. So you build momentum, you
Speaker 9: do something and it goes right, and you realize, oh,
Speaker 9: I am a good decision maker. I can't figure this out.
Speaker 9: You do something else it goes right. I can't. Or
Speaker 9: you do something and it goes wrong and you figure
Speaker 9: it out and you fix it and you're like, oh,
Speaker 9: when things go wrong, it's not as bad as I
Speaker 9: thought it was. Do you build confidence in your own
Speaker 9: decision making, in your own problem solving?
Speaker 3: Gotcha? Would you agree that?
Speaker 2: I think for a lot of folks that overthink and
Speaker 2: don't take action, which is a lot a lot of people,
Speaker 2: is that you don't have to have every detail in
Speaker 2: every angle completely figured out before you start a project exactly,
Speaker 2: and you.
Speaker 9: Can figure out some key things and then let what
Speaker 9: happens happen and figure the rest of it out as
Speaker 9: you go along. And I tell people to think about
Speaker 9: it not as what should I do? But what are
Speaker 9: all the things I could do? Not how should I
Speaker 9: do this? But how could I do this? Because should
Speaker 9: is like a yes no, and could is a broader
Speaker 9: perspective to take.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense, you don't need to figure it
Speaker 2: out for a start going ahead. Sure, why not go
Speaker 2: with that for now? But it's easier said than done, right,
Speaker 2: It's that first step is really really hard for people.
Speaker 9: It can be really hard for people, and that's why
Speaker 9: I encourage people to micodose discomfort. Try doing some things
Speaker 9: that are small that make you a little uncomfortable, that
Speaker 9: move you just a skosh out of your comfort zone,
Speaker 9: and see how you handle it. Try to increase your
Speaker 9: tolerance for uncertainty and discomfort and messiness in your life
Speaker 9: so that you can become more resilient and you can
Speaker 9: think more wrongly and you can have more options available
Speaker 9: to you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's I guess human discomfort.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's against human nature right as we want
Speaker 2: to be surrounded by comfort, which is the whole thing
Speaker 2: with child rearing when we talk about helicopters and plot parents,
Speaker 2: it's about making your life comfortable as comfortable as possible.
Speaker 2: But adversity builds character, it's so true, but it also
Speaker 2: prepares you to make decisions. And these are the really
Speaker 2: negative consequences of that attitude of protecting you from everything
Speaker 2: and not preparing you for anything.
Speaker 9: Correct. Yes, there's this thing called post traumatic growth. We've
Speaker 9: all heard of post traumatic stress. There's this thing called
Speaker 9: post traumatic growth where when something goes wrong.
Speaker 8: Doesn't have to be big trauma. When something goes.
Speaker 9: Wrong in our lives, we can grow from that. We
Speaker 9: can gain resilience, we can gain confidence, we can gain
Speaker 9: skills or knowledge or expect You gain a lot from
Speaker 9: when things go wrong. We don't just gain from when
Speaker 9: things go right. In fact, some of the greatest lessons
Speaker 9: most of us have learned have been when something didn't go.
Speaker 8: According to plan right.
Speaker 3: She's July had what iss?
Speaker 2: Youre a licensed mental health therapist from a be Connected
Speaker 2: dot Care. That's let her be connected and she's out
Speaker 2: of a clift and you're going to reach out future
Speaker 2: topic or concern, comment or question. Hey Julie at be
Speaker 2: Connected dot Care. It's mental Health Monday with Julietge. Appreciate
Speaker 2: you and we'll talk next week.
Speaker 3: Have a great a few days. We will take care.
Speaker 2: Thanks all, right, stop overthinking and get off your butt
Speaker 2: and start doing Stuffquit talking, start doing. I guess that's
Speaker 2: the bottom line here. We'll get a news update in
Speaker 2: the President is now in Egypt for the peace summit there,
Speaker 2: and so far, so good in the hours that have
Speaker 2: happened since the piece has been brokere we have that
Speaker 2: going on a little closer to home here in Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: we just learned about the passing not long ago of
Speaker 2: the live of the legend himself, Jim Kelly Junior, of course,
Speaker 2: Bearcat Hall of Famer passing away. I believe at the
Speaker 2: age of seventy two, been battling sickness for a while.
Speaker 2: But the longtime color analyst to Dan Horde's play by play,
Speaker 2: he's been out for a little while anyway, but he'll
Speaker 2: be sadly missed. Jim Kelly Junior passing away today, and
Speaker 2: our thoughts and prayers with the Kelly family and everyone
Speaker 2: down on Clifton this morning. Scott's Loan show on the
Speaker 2: Home of the Best Bangles coverage ann Home of the Cats,
Speaker 2: seven hundred WWD SINCNAT.
Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American?
Speaker 2: Scott flowing back on seven hundred WLW Who have a
Speaker 2: deal Israel. Israel and Kalestine have a peace deal. All
Speaker 2: the living hostages in Gaza been released for about two
Speaker 2: thousand prisoners in Israel. Thousands of Palestinians and walked to
Speaker 2: northern Gaza to try and find what happened to their
Speaker 2: loved ones and their homes. And Trump addressed the Israeli
Speaker 2: parliament earlier today to large cheers. Also, some protests are
Speaker 2: brokering the peace deal entering two years of wards, then
Speaker 2: the two years of war. He's meeting in Egypt with
Speaker 2: the leaders of more than twenty countries.
Speaker 3: That's what next.
Speaker 2: As he takes as much as their victory lap, the
Speaker 2: question is is this a lasting piece. Abdullah Hayek is
Speaker 2: a Middle East analyst and consultant and is a peace
Speaker 2: fellow at the Young Voices. Abdullah, welcome to the show.
Speaker 10: How are you good morning, Scott, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5: I'm doing good.
Speaker 6: How are you well?
Speaker 3: Thanks appreciate it.
Speaker 2: So is this just is this the end of the
Speaker 2: war or is this a loud cease fire and we're
Speaker 2: going to pick this up in a few weeks, a
Speaker 2: few months, maybe a few years.
Speaker 10: Well, so far it seems that the war in Gaza
Speaker 10: is indefinitely over. We've seen Trump's confidence apparent when he
Speaker 10: was addressing the press aboard Air Force one en route
Speaker 10: to Israel, and a reporter I believe it was Caitlin
Speaker 10: Collins from CNN asked the president, you say the war's done.
Speaker 10: Nataniello says it hasn't, and it just tells her, do
Speaker 10: you understand.
Speaker 5: Me, it's done. It's just done. The war is done.
Speaker 10: So it seems that the President is pretty adamant that
Speaker 10: he wants.
Speaker 5: To end the war in Gaza, and.
Speaker 10: So far, with the three past ceasefire attempts.
Speaker 5: Over the past two years.
Speaker 10: This particular ceasefire seems to be successful because Hamas has
Speaker 10: actually participated and budged and went through with at least
Speaker 10: the first successful phase one of it. Thankfully, the twenty
Speaker 10: living hostages are freed. Now that's the first step. The
Speaker 10: Israeli hostilities, the offensive operations, bombing, military participation in the
Speaker 10: strip have ended, and the humanitarian car door has proceeded.
Speaker 10: So I think what matters now is within the next
Speaker 10: few hours when Trump departs Israel and goes to Egypt
Speaker 10: and meets with twenty other world leaders as you just mentioned,
Speaker 10: and We'll see what the next steps will be, but
Speaker 10: so far, so good.
Speaker 2: Well, the good news is you have pretty much the
Speaker 2: rest of the Middle East on board with this. The outlier, though,
Speaker 2: would be Iran as the largest state sponsored terrorist operation
Speaker 2: in Iran, whether or not Hamas continues, albeit maybe in
Speaker 2: a different form, but continues.
Speaker 3: That's going to be up to them, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 10: I doubt that Hamas will play any role in GDZ
Speaker 10: the any day after this. The popularity amongst the Gazen
Speaker 10: people themselves has extremely diminished. They are extremely unpopular, They
Speaker 10: are unwanted. Iran has shown its cards to the region
Speaker 10: that whoever seeks to shade under it really gets forsaken.
Speaker 10: Hamas has been literally left to center itself. Hezbollah has
Speaker 10: been destroyed by Israel without any real aid from Iran.
Speaker 10: The outside regime, as we've seen in December, just crumbled
Speaker 10: in a matter of eleven days, and the hoopies have
Speaker 10: literally been smacked by everyone in the region, and Iran
Speaker 10: hasn't done anything. The only time Iran fights back is
Speaker 10: what it's hit itself. So I don't think that Iranian
Speaker 10: influence over Hamas is going to be as it was
Speaker 10: prior to October seventh, and I think the Palestinian people
Speaker 10: will right now understand that really peace is just the
Speaker 10: best way to move forward and end all of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just wonder if there'll be enough splinter members
Speaker 2: left with a mass, maybe they reform down the line
Speaker 2: is something else, But you know, at least temporarily with
Speaker 2: the near future, things look good, Abdulla Hayak, relative to
Speaker 2: peace in that country that we've seen on and off
Speaker 2: again now well longer than we've both been here. For sure,
Speaker 2: how much of this as far as the trust element,
Speaker 2: because that's really the big thing here, right is that
Speaker 2: people are just maybe what ended this whole thing is fatigue.
Speaker 10: Well, fatigue is certain. This war is the longest that
Speaker 10: Israel has ever been in Israel, you know, usually goes
Speaker 10: to war for weeks or months, not for years. I
Speaker 10: think trust is a two way street. If the war
Speaker 10: truly wants to end, both sides need to trust each other.
Speaker 10: If we see a pattern developed within this conflict, we
Speaker 10: can see that every major peace deal breakthrough usually succeeds
Speaker 10: a major war. We've seen the Camp David Accords succeed
Speaker 10: the Yom Kippur war. We've seen the Also Accords succeed
Speaker 10: the First Intifada. So right now, I think with this
Speaker 10: war being so destructive and you know, groundbreaking and changing
Speaker 10: the landscape, I think there's an opportunity right now, with fatigue,
Speaker 10: with the determination to solve the conflict, with with everything
Speaker 10: you could possibly imagine, to actually come through with a
Speaker 10: peace deal that will not just end this chapter of
Speaker 10: the conflict, but the whole conflict. And I think it
Speaker 10: would be best with if it's stayed within the two
Speaker 10: state solution in some way or the other.
Speaker 2: Well, it seems like it's headed that way. We'll get
Speaker 2: that in a second. But as far as initially earning
Speaker 2: the trost i guess of each other, the Israelis as
Speaker 2: well as Palestinian says, I would think like humanitarian aid
Speaker 2: would be a big component of this. Is that if
Speaker 2: we're delivering food and we're not just the US but Israel, right,
Speaker 2: and you have actual Israelis that and boots on the
Speaker 2: ground they're delivering food and water and medical spies helping
Speaker 2: them rebuild Gaza, doesn't that go a long way to
Speaker 2: lasting peace.
Speaker 10: Well, it's definitely a gesture of goodwill. It's much needed, actually,
Speaker 10: especially with the high chance of salmin that were in
Speaker 10: the strip. I think that the initiative on behalf of
Speaker 10: the Americans and the Israelis to commence food delivery is good,
Speaker 10: but I think that it would even be a better gesture.
Speaker 5: Of goodwill if both of them.
Speaker 10: Participate within the reconstruction and the rehabilitation of Gaza project
Speaker 10: as a whole with the broader international community. That will
Speaker 10: definitely go a long way, and it will certainly show
Speaker 10: that the people in Gaza that once you get rid
Speaker 10: of Hamas and once you get rid of the Iranian influence, the.
Speaker 5: Aftermath is usually more rewarding and more for you.
Speaker 10: So I think that would go better in developing the trust.
Speaker 5: That you were talking about, in which it would chill that.
Speaker 10: The Israelis don't just come with the hammer, they come
Speaker 10: with the olive branch as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, if you see your enemy, if you can
Speaker 2: see in touch and who was formula enemy and they're
Speaker 2: helping you rebuild, now, that's how you regain trust. That's
Speaker 2: how you build I think, a lasting piece. But that
Speaker 2: is the very very hands on, early, touchy tactile component
Speaker 2: of this whole thing. The other element is you mentioned
Speaker 2: Abdulla Hiak Middle East analysts and consultant is the rebuilding
Speaker 2: in governance. So you mentioned a two state solution, and
Speaker 2: that has always been a perilous ask, and that is okay,
Speaker 2: can can we have Palestine and Israel co exist in
Speaker 2: the same land that has always been fraught with a
Speaker 2: lot of problems because of how much land and where
Speaker 2: and expansion and the like, And that's driven this whole
Speaker 2: conflict for a long time. If you have a transitional
Speaker 2: governance that leads into governing, you almost by definition, then
Speaker 2: have to have a state to govern.
Speaker 3: Correct. So this is the fact of two state solution.
Speaker 2: To start, we have established as Ali a legitimate territory,
Speaker 2: and I think countries like France were not long ago
Speaker 2: booed by us, but now it sounds like this is
Speaker 2: what we're doing.
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 10: Well, Scott, it's good that you mentioned this, but within
Speaker 10: that realm we just spoken, the whole thing is.
Speaker 5: All over the place. Now.
Speaker 10: Both Hamas and the Trump twenty point piece plan both
Speaker 10: they explicitly mentioned that they will not accept the Palestinian
Speaker 10: authority to go into the Gaza strip and resume governance
Speaker 10: after Hamas surrenders. Now, I think That is the major
Speaker 10: point that raises one's eyebrows because Hamas only stated that
Speaker 10: it will surrender the strip to a body of international
Speaker 10: and independent Palestinian technocrats. Has anyone ever heard of that
Speaker 10: term really successful in the Middle East? I don't think so,
Speaker 10: which brings us back to are my original point, which
Speaker 10: I believe, with the same motivation and initiative we've seen
Speaker 10: in ending.
Speaker 5: The war in Gaza, I think.
Speaker 10: The US and the international community as a whole has
Speaker 10: to lead an initiative to revitalize and decorrupt the Palestinian Authority,
Speaker 10: which was designed to be the governing body of the
Speaker 10: Palestinians in the wake of Oslo in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 10: They've already had a track record.
Speaker 5: Of governance and for a good period of time they
Speaker 5: were successful.
Speaker 10: Those are the guys that will really do the job
Speaker 10: to help the Palestinians.
Speaker 3: Well, can we trust them that?
Speaker 2: I mean that there's a history of corruption, allegations and
Speaker 2: failed peace talks and everything else.
Speaker 3: We're back to that.
Speaker 10: You're absolutely correct, But that's what I'm saying. We need
Speaker 10: to lead an initiative to rehabilitate them, to revitalize them,
Speaker 10: do something to motivate elections being happening there and the
Speaker 10: Palestinians electing leaders. I know two thousand and six happened
Speaker 10: and Hamas won, but the constituents that were present in
Speaker 10: two thousand and six are ninety percent not going to
Speaker 10: vote in this election, which is twenty years later. The
Speaker 10: young generation of Palestinians have seen that the wrath of
Speaker 10: Israeli military might is not something that should be dealt with,
Speaker 10: as we've seen in the example with Gaza, the Palestinians
Speaker 10: would want to end the conflict peacefully. If we can
Speaker 10: just go to polling data, if it were to emerge
Speaker 10: right now, it would most certainly show that the Palestinian
Speaker 10: people do not want the confrontation with Israel anymore. We're
Speaker 10: seeing social media footage on the ground in Gaza that
Speaker 10: just attack Hamas more so than they attack Israel.
Speaker 5: So the tide is changing in the region. You know.
Speaker 10: As for the two states solutions, what the.
Speaker 5: Voters will be, what the.
Speaker 10: Shape of the map would look like, that's all I think,
Speaker 10: very very tough to tackle. I mean, numerous presidential administrations
Speaker 10: haven't been able to tackle.
Speaker 5: But it's good that they keep it.
Speaker 10: Within that framework because honestly, Other than that, what is
Speaker 10: the solutions? What do I don't think, you know, there's
Speaker 10: any other possible solution because the Israelis are not going anywhere,
Speaker 10: the Palestinians are.
Speaker 5: Not going anywhere. Is it going to be fulfilled.
Speaker 10: Within the you know, the one state solution or a
Speaker 10: three state solution where the West Bank goes back to
Speaker 10: Jordan or the Gaza Strip goes back to Egypt. I
Speaker 10: don't think that's going to be feasible or possible. So
Speaker 10: a two state solution in which both sides can guarantee
Speaker 10: each other's security and peace is.
Speaker 5: The best solution.
Speaker 10: And how that's going to be done, I think you
Speaker 10: need courage. I think you need the courage to overcome
Speaker 10: the obstacles. And you know, in a nutshell, I think
Speaker 10: you know, the Arab claim as foreshown in the two
Speaker 10: thousand and two Arab Peace Initiative, which states that there
Speaker 10: would be full recognition on behalf of the Arab world
Speaker 10: with Israel in return of Israeli withdrawal from the Palestinian
Speaker 10: occupied territories. I think that's a good start, but you know,
Speaker 10: the Arabs have to aman that. You know, the borders
Speaker 10: of June fourth nineteen sixty seven aren't really feasible anymore
Speaker 10: because previously there were major chunks of Palestinian cities surrounded
Speaker 10: by tiny dots of Israeli settlements in the West Bank.
Speaker 5: And that's just the other way around.
Speaker 10: Where you have these major Jewish Israeli settlements in the
Speaker 10: West Bank that are really just surrounded by Palestinian DUTs.
Speaker 10: The demographics in the West Bank have changed dramatically. So
Speaker 10: I think that they need to get over the June
Speaker 10: fourth nighteth in sixty seven borders. They have to come
Speaker 10: to an agreement over Jerusalem, and I think something can
Speaker 10: be made. But the time is right now, the iron
Speaker 10: is hot. It's best time to strike is now. So
Speaker 10: we'll see.
Speaker 2: And we also have to maintain focus, and that's something
Speaker 2: I do a little that we're really bad at in
Speaker 2: the West A specifically America is well, we'll do this,
Speaker 2: we'll celebrate, then we'll move on to the next thing,
Speaker 2: and completely forget all the work it took to establish
Speaker 2: peace in the Middle East. All these countries. We let
Speaker 2: it fall apart. We've seen a long track record, and
Speaker 2: that whether it's a Vietnam, whether it's Afghanistan, whether it's
Speaker 2: the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Cold War
Speaker 2: and the Russians the former Soviet Union, and we just
Speaker 2: ignore that and go, hey, if we don't maintain democracy
Speaker 2: and try to keep feeding it and caring for it
Speaker 2: and nurturing and nursing it along, it'll fall apart because
Speaker 2: it's fragile. We do that all the time.
Speaker 5: Unfortunately.
Speaker 10: So and the track record isn't just you know, with
Speaker 10: those states that you mentioned. It has been with the
Speaker 10: Palestinians over and over again, with the whole conflict. So
Speaker 10: I think, you know, Donald Trump has shown true interest
Speaker 10: in you know, having his second term his administration be
Speaker 10: remembered as that of a peacemaker. We've seen his record
Speaker 10: be successful so far and ending conflicts between Armenian Azerb
Speaker 10: by John, the Indians and Pakistanis, the Rwandans and Congolese
Speaker 10: and three other conflicts in addition to the one in
Speaker 10: Gaza and Israel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well, again we'll see how long it lasts.
Speaker 2: If he can get through his second term without it
Speaker 2: falling apart again, would be that alone by itself would
Speaker 2: probably be a small miracle. And I know there's a
Speaker 2: lot of pieces behind the scenes. As he's in Egypt
Speaker 2: now talking world leaders. A lot of things had to
Speaker 2: happen behind the scenes for this to occur, namely leveraging
Speaker 2: Cutter and Turkey and Egypt to get this deal broker together.
Speaker 2: That took a lot of work behind the scenes obviously.
Speaker 10: Oh yeah, and I think there needs to go credit
Speaker 10: for the Turks. Over the past two years, the major
Speaker 10: countries involved in the negotiations were, of course Israelis and Americans,
Speaker 10: with the Kataris and the Egyptians. When the Turks got
Speaker 10: involved in the negotiations, only in a matter of three
Speaker 10: days did we come to a solution to the conference.
Speaker 10: So I think, you know, the credit is due to
Speaker 10: the Turks, especially that President Erdogan has, according to President Trump,
Speaker 10: personally intervened in the negotiation process for itself. The timing
Speaker 10: is just right. I think everything is just falling in time.
Speaker 10: Two years have ended, the hostages have just seen enough,
Speaker 10: and I think the civilian population of Gaza has just
Speaker 10: been under horrible conditions that no one could possibly imagine.
Speaker 10: The timing is right, the conflict's ending, everyone's happy. I think,
Speaker 10: you know, why shouldn't the population both in Israel and
Speaker 10: the Palestinians just moved forward to peace. Why can't we
Speaker 10: see a rebirth of the nineteen nineties again?
Speaker 2: Possibly, and he hopes so, because there's just so much
Speaker 2: blood and life lost and devastation, and it cut deeply
Speaker 2: on both sides, and that that blood is so fresh,
Speaker 2: and I think a piece elast for a little while. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: what happens in another generation comes along and forgets about history.
Speaker 2: But we'll let them address the later day. Let's celebrate
Speaker 2: the fact that the finally the war has stopped. Over
Speaker 2: two long, hard years, all the death and destruction led
Speaker 2: to this. He again on the show. Is Abdullah Hyak,
Speaker 2: middle East policy expert on the Scott's Loan Show on
Speaker 2: seven hundred. Ww's a piece fellow with young voices. Thanks
Speaker 2: again for the time. I appreciate it, Thank you, Scott.
Speaker 10: It's great to be here, and I look forward to
Speaker 10: our next discussion.
Speaker 2: Trump is in Egypt to take his victory. Laugh, maybe
Speaker 2: a lap meeting with leaders of some twenty countries here
Speaker 2: closer to home. The big star, of course is the Bengals.
Speaker 2: The Bengals, the Bengals. The Bengals lost, but they did
Speaker 2: it in a better way. We learn how to lose better.
Speaker 2: Let's put it that way, Joe Flocker looked pretty good
Speaker 2: at second half, the defense fall apart. The big question,
Speaker 2: of course, is why can't we have the offensive defense
Speaker 2: on the same page for all four quarters, certainly in
Speaker 2: the last number of games in this early season, so
Speaker 2: faarlier in the season. In fact, the matter is you
Speaker 2: play complimentary football. It's got the last four quarters. Offense
Speaker 2: looked bad in the first half good and the second
Speaker 2: half in the opposite for the defense wilted in the end.
Speaker 2: But Scott Steelers, it's a short week, Thursday night football
Speaker 2: coming to Cincinnati. Scott Sloan show, We've got news on
Speaker 2: the way in just about four or five minutes. Hang
Speaker 2: on for more seven hundred wlw's on seven d WWF.
Speaker 2: The Cincinnati Bengals felt in the path because I don't
Speaker 2: have to tell you that yesterday afternoon. Should the loss
Speaker 2: feel like a win in a way? James Rapine is
Speaker 2: here from SI Bengals talking lockdown Bengals. James, did we
Speaker 2: win in the loss?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: No, we did.
Speaker 5: Answer.
Speaker 2: They don't get that attitude like we lost, but it
Speaker 2: feels like a better loss.
Speaker 3: It's like, no, you lost, It's just a loss. Is
Speaker 3: a loss?
Speaker 2: Even though you lost by a loss by a worse
Speaker 2: you didn't look it wasn't as embarrassing as previous loss.
Speaker 3: He's still lost.
Speaker 8: For sure, and that's the correct takeaway. I also think
Speaker 8: to the.
Speaker 10: People that are optimistic for me yesterday.
Speaker 8: The reason the reason why you're optimistic is because there
Speaker 8: are we're signs of hope and signs of a difference. Now,
Speaker 8: will that translate into Thursday? That's the real key, because
Speaker 8: a loss is a loss is a loss. But if
Speaker 8: it helps you on Thursday, well then that could translate totally.
Speaker 2: Well we'll get to that. Let's slow down just a second.
Speaker 2: Here's the problem with the bugles. It's been true, whether
Speaker 2: Jake brown is a quarterback or not, is putting a
Speaker 2: complete game together. We've heard about the complimentary nature of football. Offense, defense,
Speaker 2: special teams, offense bad first half, good second half, defense,
Speaker 2: decent first and half, bad second half. We can't put
Speaker 2: this together. That's, you know, one of the many problems.
Speaker 2: It's been an ongoing trend here, specifically with the offense
Speaker 2: being bad in the first half. Now we had an excuse,
Speaker 2: not so much under Joe Burrow, but under Jake browning
Speaker 2: one half of football. For one, Joe Flacco is not
Speaker 2: really a trend. It's a sample. Bengals put up sixty
Speaker 2: five yards total offense, but it was only down ten
Speaker 2: tohering at halftime, and that seemed like, Okay, I don't
Speaker 2: know how we're going to generate more offense in the
Speaker 2: second half, but they did and then the defense collapse.
Speaker 2: So I guess maybe that's because the offense is so
Speaker 2: went up in the first half, by the time the
Speaker 2: defense gets to that fourth quarter, they're completely guessed.
Speaker 8: Maybe, you know, maybe that's the case. And I certainly
Speaker 8: would love to see this offense start and play normal
Speaker 8: football in the first half. They've been outscore seventy nine
Speaker 8: to nine in the first half of the past four games.
Speaker 8: They haven't sort of touchdown in that span. Magically, the
Speaker 8: nine is three three, three point three, three field goals.
Speaker 8: So it's it's frustrating to watch. And yesterday I do
Speaker 8: think that there's some reason behind it that Joe Flacco
Speaker 8: had just gotten there.
Speaker 10: You're going up against the good defense, you.
Speaker 8: Are on the road, and yet at the same time
Speaker 8: it doesn't change exactly what we had seen the past
Speaker 8: three weeks is happening again, and no they didn't turn
Speaker 8: the ball over, but they literally couldn't move the ball.
Speaker 8: At the end of the first quarter, they went three
Speaker 8: and out on their only drive, had one yard of
Speaker 8: total offense. It went three and out on three of
Speaker 8: their first four drives of the half. Like it just can't.
Speaker 8: That isn't a way to win games. You can't do that.
Speaker 8: You can't start off that slow because you're right now
Speaker 8: we're wondering, all right, well, is it the defense's fault
Speaker 8: or is the defense just gassed or well, I think
Speaker 8: the defense was awful in the second half, and I
Speaker 8: don't think it's all them just being gassed. But you
Speaker 8: have to start better if you're going to win games,
Speaker 8: especially on the road against really good teams.
Speaker 3: And you're playing at lambeau Field.
Speaker 2: You're playing in a pretty good Packers team that's no slacker.
Speaker 2: That now Pittsburgh, the sweetheart of the division right now
Speaker 2: comes to the town on Thursday. Arguably that's a much
Speaker 2: tougher game. You're playing at night, you're playing at home
Speaker 2: at Paycres. Hopefully home field helps you. But right now,
Speaker 2: the Bengals, if this is any indication of how you
Speaker 2: know as a loss is a loss Cincy is five
Speaker 2: and a half point underdogs going to this game on
Speaker 2: Thursday night.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and this is this is where it shifts, because
Speaker 8: I said, this is not hindsight, This isn't me looking
Speaker 8: at it from orange and black colored glasses. Losing to
Speaker 8: the Packers in my mind was expected, like I wanted
Speaker 8: to see them play better, but tough team on the road.
Speaker 8: Joe Flacker has been there for four and a half days.
Speaker 8: Basically a tough ask. But you make that move for
Speaker 8: Joe Flacco, so you can one be more competitive, but
Speaker 8: two win games like Thursday night. It's the Pittsburgh team
Speaker 8: and obviously knows Joe well, you know the Steelers well.
Speaker 8: And if you win, you can get right back in
Speaker 8: this because the AFC North stinks. Really, the AFC for
Speaker 8: the most part hasn't been as good as people thought.
Speaker 8: And so that door is cracked. But it slams shut
Speaker 8: with a loss or you can open with a win. Yeah,
Speaker 8: and that's the reality for the Bengals right now.
Speaker 2: It feels certainly you look by the way you described it,
Speaker 2: must win on Thursday and to beat the Steelers in
Speaker 2: the division, especially at this chance having him at home.
Speaker 3: Now it is a short week. Of course that's always bad.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's not because now Joe Flackow, he's been a
Speaker 2: bit of a rhythm right now, and you look again
Speaker 2: in a rhythm in the second half. I mean, he
Speaker 2: through some really tight balls, particularly to Jamar Chase. Jamar
Speaker 2: Chase blew up that touchdown to the head. I still
Speaker 2: don't know how you got that. I still don't know how
Speaker 2: that wasn't a flag, by the way, but you felt like, Wow,
Speaker 2: finally somebody who given a little bit of time and
Speaker 2: credit to the offensive line there can find the deep ball,
Speaker 2: can hit Cha March, can hit Tea Higgains, and maybe
Speaker 2: we got something there.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's that's it. That's exactly it is. I I
Speaker 8: came away from that game. My biggest takeaway was, all Right,
Speaker 8: they have a guy at quarterbacks. I have a guy
Speaker 8: at quarterback that can make the throws. He can get
Speaker 8: it to their weapons. And this team scot is built
Speaker 8: around their offense. Like if they're going to be good,
Speaker 8: their offense needs to be good. Their offense should be
Speaker 8: better than the defense. Like that's just that's how they're
Speaker 8: going to win games. And so that second half, I mean,
Speaker 8: they might have scored three straight touchdowns. If Andre Josavash
Speaker 8: doesn't dropped that ball on third and eight, let it
Speaker 8: go through his hands, they were moving it and so yeah,
Speaker 8: I think that there's there's reason to be hope, hopeful, yep.
Speaker 8: And I think that they're going to be encouraged by that.
Speaker 8: But again, now it's now the pressure really is on.
Speaker 8: This is a kitsh and sink. You throw the kitchen sink.
Speaker 8: You throw every play, every everything to get a win.
Speaker 3: On the third you mentioned Yosha, and Yoshi really struggled
Speaker 3: yes day. It was not a good game for him.
Speaker 8: He did, he did, And those are the type of
Speaker 8: plays like, especially on the road, new quarterback, make a catch,
Speaker 8: you're you're trying to rally back like you You have
Speaker 8: to have those kind of plays to have a chance.
Speaker 8: And yeah, if he didn't need those plays on the
Speaker 8: field or knows, who knows what ends up happening.
Speaker 2: You wonder two end of the half, what if it
Speaker 2: would have looked that much? It's okay, so you're in
Speaker 2: the go to locker room. It's ten nothing. You go
Speaker 2: to locker room ten three and a touchdown. You've got
Speaker 2: a little momentum there McPherson hitting the crossbar from sixty seven,
Speaker 2: which have been an NFL rocker. That was when Curl
Speaker 2: hits a crossbar, goes in and oh wait, we called
Speaker 2: time out right before a fortuitous icing of the kicker
Speaker 2: because obviously the second one wasn't long enough and it
Speaker 2: was wide right, he just got a little too much
Speaker 2: under it.
Speaker 3: But man, we could I think it. You don't want
Speaker 3: to say, hey, what what could have should have?
Speaker 5: Could have had?
Speaker 2: Mean if Joe Burrow didn't go down, we probably wouldn't
Speaker 2: have this conversation. Is the fact that, man, I just
Speaker 2: that felt to me, like, boy, you go in the
Speaker 2: locker from getting three back and hey we're only down seven,
Speaker 2: And then the way they looked in the second half,
Speaker 2: it could have been a different outcome.
Speaker 8: It could have the heck of a time out by
Speaker 8: that before it really was because I don't know if
Speaker 8: do you think you need to ice the kicker a
Speaker 8: sixty seven yards? Is it better just to let him
Speaker 8: kick it? Clearly it was better to take the time out.
Speaker 2: And you're not taking your time outs in the half, Ami,
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, what do you lose my calling time out?
Speaker 8: No doubt, no doubt, and that's it. That's why you
Speaker 8: do it. But geeh, like I uh, I wish honestly,
Speaker 8: I wish Evan didn't get to kick that first one,
Speaker 8: right because I think he kicked the first one, made
Speaker 8: it and then I don't know, it almost changes your mindset.
Speaker 8: And I'm not just saying he said that or felt
Speaker 8: that way, but like, it just felt different with.
Speaker 3: That second shot.
Speaker 2: Again, if the angles a half degree off, it's going
Speaker 2: to change it from that far. So you know, it
Speaker 2: may not have been the hold because in the state,
Speaker 2: could have been a million things. But yeah, now, had
Speaker 2: he missed it and then hit the second one, we'd
Speaker 2: be high five in each other right now, and maybe
Speaker 2: the Bengals would have done something. But that was the
Speaker 2: most Bengal thing of the game I think is that
Speaker 2: he makes it from sixty seven, they called the timeout,
Speaker 2: and then he misses the sixty seven yard er. But nonetheless,
Speaker 2: I thought first half defense played good enough to win
Speaker 2: Trey Hendrickson leave them to the back injury. Things change
Speaker 2: after Trey Hendrickson wasn't rushing the passer anymore.
Speaker 5: Yep, that might have.
Speaker 8: Been all these game deciding plays. You know, third and
Speaker 8: eight and you have Jordan Love with over four seconds
Speaker 8: to throw the ball and then he finds Matt Golden
Speaker 8: when the Bengals had trimmed lead to twenty four to eighteen.
Speaker 8: And if they get to stop there, they're getting the ball. Yeah,
Speaker 8: but my goodness, sound nice would have beat a have
Speaker 8: Trey Hendrickson on the field. I really hope it isn't serious,
Speaker 8: because you talk about pass to winning games. They just
Speaker 8: don't have a lot of playmakers on defense right now, Scott.
Speaker 8: So without Trey, without Trey, you're looking around that who's
Speaker 8: going to make a play, And there's just there's not
Speaker 8: many guys that you could confidently they would raise their
Speaker 8: hand and be able to actually go out there.
Speaker 2: And does anyone miss more tackles than Jordan Bell? I
Speaker 2: mean it was fair most games and Cam Taylor brit
Speaker 2: has just been bad for a long time now, and
Speaker 2: I mean he's bench leading up to the game, and uh,
Speaker 2: it's just you look at it and go, there's two
Speaker 2: fun a firm of the guys that want to make
Speaker 2: a play. I mean tackling. That's not the easiest thing,
Speaker 2: but it's the most basic thing. You watch a Bengals game.
Speaker 2: How many guys get extra yards after initial contact. You
Speaker 2: could probably count on one hand, or in the course
Speaker 2: of the game where the person make initial contact brings
Speaker 2: down the target.
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's it's frustrating. And I thought it was.
Speaker 8: Interesting that the Bengals wn't with two rookie linebackers as well.
Speaker 8: Yeah that game. Yeah, and Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight.
Speaker 8: And I don't want to be the Barrett bad news,
Speaker 8: but I don't think he that one played well. I see,
Speaker 8: Josh Jacobs had his best game of the year, averaging
Speaker 8: over five to carry. Obviously the two touchdowns on the
Speaker 8: one touchdown run. I mean he was pretty pretty untouched
Speaker 8: after getting through the defensive a front and that can't happen. So, yeah,
Speaker 8: you mentioned it. Can Taylor Bridge Jordan battle and then
Speaker 8: you're throw in those guys and not much of a
Speaker 8: pass rush. Yeah, And it's just it's a really tough
Speaker 8: go of it right now, and so who knows. I
Speaker 8: think Shamar Stewart has a chance to play this week,
Speaker 8: and maybe Trey Hendrickson can fight through it. And if
Speaker 8: you have those two guys, maybe you will have somewhat
Speaker 8: of a pass rush against.
Speaker 2: Aaron Rodgers, James rapine back to the corners and starting
Speaker 2: two rookies at linebacker. Demetrius Night. Okay, we saw Demetrius,
Speaker 2: but bred Carter in for Logan. What happened to Logan
Speaker 2: Wilson over the last couple of ye I mean, I
Speaker 2: think he was just on kickoff.
Speaker 8: I think, yeah, he was in on bass downs when
Speaker 8: they were playing three linebackers and then special teams. He
Speaker 8: had one snap in the second half. And honestly, I
Speaker 8: don't think he's been like he has lost the step,
Speaker 8: There's no doubt, But I don't think he's been so
Speaker 8: bad that now he's just phased out. And I think
Speaker 8: that's a really interesting storyline that's transpired over I mean,
Speaker 8: it's week six it's not Week sixteen, right, And you know,
Speaker 8: has Barrett Harder showed them that much? Now, if you
Speaker 8: look at the box score, played well, he had ten tackles.
Speaker 5: But I.
Speaker 8: Think when they watched the film, they're going to look
Speaker 8: at those linebackers and say, all right, we were pretty
Speaker 8: bad in that spot. But it is saying something that
Speaker 8: Logan Wilson has kind of throughout the past couple of
Speaker 8: weeks been phased out and now he's truly their third linebacker.
Speaker 8: It's tough about to be in for the veteran, especially
Speaker 8: after he's voted captain. And that's the reality, that's what
Speaker 8: he's facing. I would expect Bret Carter and Demetrius Knight
Speaker 8: to start again on Thursday.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would think so too. But man, I watch
Speaker 3: you watch a little bit.
Speaker 2: Because you get the multi view going on TV, they
Speaker 2: can watch different games that I'm watching Aaron Rodgers yesterday
Speaker 2: and he you know, especially with no Trey Hendrickson, Boy,
Speaker 2: you're asking that line and that defense to do a
Speaker 2: lot that they don't look like they're capable of as
Speaker 2: of today.
Speaker 8: Uh, there's no doubt. And and that's why starting off
Speaker 8: with points and finding a way to get going early
Speaker 8: on offense, that that is important because the Steelers they're
Speaker 8: not a team that wants to win a shoot out either.
Speaker 3: Right, They're kind of.
Speaker 8: They want to play, you know, the ugly game that
Speaker 8: they played yesterday and then I'll break it open at
Speaker 8: the end the and that's pretty much their game script
Speaker 8: every week. And so this offense has to show up early.
Speaker 8: They're going up against a really good defensive front. The
Speaker 8: Steelers defensive front is awesome Jalen Ramsey has been playing
Speaker 8: pretty well, I think in Pittsburgh at corner and so
Speaker 8: it's going to be a tough task, a tough test,
Speaker 8: and it really can you get a lead, and then
Speaker 8: if you get a lead, the Steelers aren't good at
Speaker 8: running the football. Forced Aaron Rodgers to throw it, and
Speaker 8: when he does, you're gonna have to get pressure on him.
Speaker 8: Like it's all simple things. It's much easier said than done.
Speaker 8: But those are some of the things that they're gonna
Speaker 8: have to do well.
Speaker 2: We'll find out that Thursday, and it's a quick week
Speaker 2: and unfortunate we're gonna have time to get healthy too,
Speaker 2: because you get some guys banging a Trey Hendrickson comes
Speaker 2: to minds the biggest there as well. And man, you
Speaker 2: feel like this is the season right here? Am I
Speaker 2: wrong about thinking it that way on Thursday night?
Speaker 5: Already? No, you're not wrong. This is it.
Speaker 8: I mean two and five, verses three and four. And
Speaker 8: if you get to three and four, then you have
Speaker 8: a tie breaker over the Steelers and you play him
Speaker 8: again a month later, right, and so you can you
Speaker 8: have to sleep Pittsburgh. If you sleep Pittsburgh, and you
Speaker 8: look and you got the Jets on the schedule. You
Speaker 8: got some winnable games on the schedule in your home.
Speaker 8: You don't go on the road again. It's been a
Speaker 8: lot of road games, right, four out of six on
Speaker 8: the road, right. You don't go on the road again
Speaker 8: until November sixteenth, when you play Pittsburgh and there's a
Speaker 8: buy in there, but you're at home. This is when,
Speaker 8: like Zach Taylor for the past few, like the winds
Speaker 8: are gonna come, The winds are gonna come. Well, the
Speaker 8: winds need to come right now. They do, and now's
Speaker 8: the time, and they can They can salvage the season
Speaker 8: if they went on Thursday night. But it certainly starts
Speaker 8: with a winner on primetime against the Steelers.
Speaker 2: Big ask, we'll find out. We'll have the call for you.
Speaker 2: James Rapines covering it for you as he does every
Speaker 2: Monday morning, so chopping it up before the lunch. How
Speaker 2: we're always talking to Bengals football. This morning, I'm the
Speaker 2: losing end. That's four straight losses. Bengal's open at five
Speaker 2: and a half point dogs against the Steelers on Thursday
Speaker 2: Night football. James Repete catch him over at SI's bengalstock
Speaker 2: dot com it puts a lockdown podcast as well. James,
Speaker 2: all the best, Buddy, appreciate.
Speaker 5: You, Thanks, Scott, appreciate you.
Speaker 2: All right, quick time out speaking of sports and the like,
Speaker 2: of course, the news this morning that the Bearcat, the legend,
Speaker 2: the Hall of Famer, Jim Kelly Junior, has passed away.
Speaker 2: The long time color analysts for Bearcat Football alongside our
Speaker 2: buddy Dan Horde, passing away today after his health battle.
Speaker 2: So prayers to everyone at UC and Clifton, especially the
Speaker 2: Kelly family and h and Danny for that matter too.
Speaker 3: Knew that guy for a long time.
Speaker 2: Willie's on the way coming up at twelve o six
Speaker 2: here on the Home of the Best Bengals coverage, seven
Speaker 2: hundred WWT Cincinnati