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Speaker 1: So the justification, if those are the two justifications, you

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Speaker 1: know there there it's problematic. There seems to have been

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Speaker 1: a strategic act without a clear strategic outcome or a

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Speaker 1: clear strategic objective. The desire, you know, just going on

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Speaker 1: what the President said this morning, the the desire for

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Speaker 1: the people of UHN too rise up is is something

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Speaker 1: that cannot be accomplished there, I say on the fly,

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Speaker 1: it requires planning, It requires intentionality in terms of you know,

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Speaker 1: building an opposition and supporting that in ways for perhaps

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Speaker 1: a peaceful transfer. But the reality of it is, you

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Speaker 1: know this, you know, the justification I will just say,

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Speaker 1: is unclear from that perspective, because there there seems to

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Speaker 1: be no imminent threat, assuming that I do know that

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Speaker 1: during I think it was the second Bush administration, uh

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Speaker 1: there was a doctrine that the executive branch adopted to

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Speaker 1: justify action in the wake of uh in the name

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Speaker 1: of self defense after nine to eleven those sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: That was a a doctrine that was adopted there. And

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Speaker 1: it does seem as if this administration desires to rename

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Speaker 1: that doctrine for himself. But the issue is, well, where

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Speaker 1: is the imminent threat? Where you have an articulated one,

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Speaker 1: and from the news reports that I've seen, even previous

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Speaker 1: conversations or interviews with Secretary Rubio, there was no articulation

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Speaker 1: of an imminent threat that would justify this. So the

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Speaker 1: reasons are unclear. Now. If I step away from the

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Speaker 1: constitutional argument and just look at the UN again, there

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Speaker 1: are provisions in Article two of Chapter one of the

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Speaker 1: UN Charter, as well as Article fifty one that uses

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Speaker 1: language of individual or collective self defense if an armed

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Speaker 1: attack occurs against a member of the United Nations, well,

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Speaker 1: there was no attack on us. If the argument is well,

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Speaker 1: we are collectively taking action, again, I where was the

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Speaker 1: where was the threat? There's been no articulation of a threat.

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Speaker 1: There's been no armed attack that is being cited as justification.

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Speaker 1: The argument now is just regime change. And the collateral

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Speaker 1: damage to this is quite significant. Just listening to the

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Speaker 1: reports all day and other surrounding areas where we have

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Speaker 1: air bases and others have been under attack throughout the day.

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Speaker 1: I you know, where's where's the exit ramp here? You

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Speaker 1: know the entry ramp was not clear. The exit ramp

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Speaker 1: is certainly not clear.

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Speaker 2: No mention.

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Speaker 3: I think that at the State of the Union, which

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Speaker 3: was this week. Not no mention of this at all

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Speaker 3: as well, No hats up, there's no imminent threat. There's

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Speaker 3: been confusing reasons why why we got into this. We're

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Speaker 3: speaking with Charlene Graham, Professor of Law, Chase College of

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Speaker 3: Law at Northern Kentucky University.

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Speaker 2: So there's being there.

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Speaker 3: There are growing calls for Congress to be called back

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Speaker 3: to Washington, Professor Graham, and to have a vote on

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Speaker 3: going to war with Iran. What happens if Congress votes, know,

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Speaker 3: because we've already bombed irand I mean we're in it now.

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Speaker 3: I mean they're saying hundreds of casualties, including many children.

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Speaker 2: What can we do now as a country to.

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Speaker 3: To to to either stop or fix or you know,

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Speaker 3: get out of this or you know what what is

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Speaker 3: it that we can do? And what are the ramifications legally?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, this is going to be problematic to

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Speaker 1: be done, to which the administration suggests that following the

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Speaker 1: rule of law is in their mind discretionary. How do

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Speaker 1: you make someone who doesn't feel the need to follow

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Speaker 1: the follow the law in order to justify certain actions.

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Speaker 1: I think, yes, Congress does need to follow the law.

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Speaker 1: And Act and review the material uh that the administration

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Speaker 1: claims to justify this particular action. They need to make

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Speaker 1: an assessment of that and vote under the War Powers

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Speaker 1: Act as to whether or not they would support this

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Speaker 1: action or not. But you know, I do hope your

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Speaker 1: audience doesn't have a short memory of how long we

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Speaker 1: were in Iraq without clear exit strategies and then and

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Speaker 1: then you know, the losses, the consequences, the the the

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Speaker 1: cost to us of of something that we initiate without

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Speaker 1: an exit strategy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's wildly one.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to hear it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's wildly unpopular with the American people

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Speaker 3: seventy percent in the seventy percent range as well. President

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Speaker 3: Trump ran on a campaign in twenty twenty four to

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Speaker 3: not have any more wars, to be the president the

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Speaker 3: pro America and not have any wars. President Trump did say,

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Speaker 3: you know, in that press briefing with the hat on

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Speaker 3: and everything, he says, we may have casualties in war.

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Speaker 3: This is war. There are going to be potential for

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Speaker 3: risks of death and injury.

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Speaker 2: Of the American forces.

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Speaker 3: Isn't this why you go to Congress first before you

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Speaker 3: start a war. I mean, Congress represents the people, and

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Speaker 3: the American people should have a say whether they want

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Speaker 3: their sons and daughters to head off to war.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. I mean, it is why the War Powers Act

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Speaker 1: was enacted to try to provide a check and balance

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Speaker 1: on the executive branch and to allow the legislative branch

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Speaker 1: to do just that. There is you know, there are committees,

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Speaker 1: Senate committees and others, foreign relations committees, others that engage

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Speaker 1: in intelligent that you know, review information all the time.

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Speaker 1: It's not even clear from the various news reports that

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Speaker 1: that even that committee was consulted before this action took place,

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Speaker 1: So you know, I you know, my hope is always

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Speaker 1: that the rule of law will be followed. But I think.

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Speaker 2: We are.

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Speaker 1: Not at the point where as a country we can

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Speaker 1: solely rely on a moral compass or individuals who we

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Speaker 1: can presume will act in good faith. I think we

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Speaker 1: need to be very sober about whether we will allow,

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Speaker 1: you know, individuals in positions of power who will make

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Speaker 1: decisions without adhering to the rule of law, without seeking

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Speaker 1: the advice and consent of Congress, who simply, you know,

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Speaker 1: will act seemingly on a whim.

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Speaker 3: How I'm having a hard time, because I've been like you,

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Speaker 3: watching this play out all day, Professor Graham, How is

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Speaker 3: this a good move for the United States and the

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Speaker 3: American people in any way?

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Speaker 2: I don't see how this.

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Speaker 3: First of all, it's going to create chaos in the

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Speaker 3: Middle East, and that looks to be as far as

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Speaker 3: the reports that I have heard and read all day

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Speaker 3: today is going to be a mess. It's going to

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Speaker 3: be long and painful, with a lot of casualties. But

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Speaker 3: how is this in our best interests? How is this America? First?

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Speaker 3: Can you figure out in any way, shape or form,

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Speaker 3: how this is good for the American.

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Speaker 1: People At this point in time, I can say it's

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Speaker 1: not clear what benefit there is. This is not you know, yes, Uh,

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Speaker 1: the administration removed the head of the Venezuelan Venezuelan government,

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Speaker 1: but that government continues. The loyalists to that president, uh

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Speaker 1: were not removed. They seem to be operating in the

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Speaker 1: way they had in the past. But Iran is very different.

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Speaker 1: You know, Iran has an enormous revolutionary guard. They have

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Speaker 1: an enormous number of supporters even and you know recently

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Speaker 1: killed many people who sought to tens of thousands of

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Speaker 1: people who sought to protest particular policy policies. You know,

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Speaker 1: this particular this regime has the potential to be quite

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Speaker 1: ruthless in its response. And I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: benefit to us is. You know, Iran is not a

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Speaker 1: small country, uh, And I fear that, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, not to be hyperbolic, but I do fear

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Speaker 1: a response that the United States is not ready for,

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Speaker 1: which is challenging, and will sacrifice more than it benefits us,

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Speaker 1: and that that always worries me. Just having studied you

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Speaker 1: know that historically when countries have engaged in certain types

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Speaker 1: of behaviors that resulted in a war, they never end

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Speaker 1: well for anybody. And so it is difficult to see

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Speaker 1: a clear benefit in this regard. But you know, let's

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Speaker 1: see if they in the coming hours or days the

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Speaker 1: administration chooses to reveal some sort of benefit. What I

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Speaker 1: do know is, you know, twenty what, twenty percent of

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Speaker 1: the world's oil comes from that region, and there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of speculation that gas prices will go up. That's

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Speaker 1: not going to help the American public who rely on

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Speaker 1: fossil fuels to get to work and get to school

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Speaker 1: and get their groceries and you know where dollars are

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Speaker 1: particularly tight in several communities. I don't see the benefit.

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Speaker 2: No, I miss.

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Speaker 3: Stock prices will go down to add right, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: stock prices are, Gas prices will go up, stock prices

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Speaker 3: will go down.

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Speaker 2: We're going to see a hit, certainly.

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Speaker 3: In the financial sector, at least that's what people are predicting.

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Speaker 3: So I ran Supreme leader. According to reports, I Toola

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Speaker 3: Kamane is dead. He was killed in the attack by

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Speaker 3: US and Israeli forces, although Iran is saying the opposite

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Speaker 3: that they that he is still alive. I guess we

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Speaker 3: won't know for sure until DNA is completed. How is how?

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Speaker 3: How do you do you have any other information on that?

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Speaker 3: And I know we're focused.

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Speaker 1: On I will say that, you know, earlier today the

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Speaker 1: Internet was shut down. You know, our sources of information

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Speaker 1: will be fractured for you know, for several days. But

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Speaker 1: if that is true, and it is confirmed to be true,

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Speaker 1: the issue is who follows him into power and whether

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Speaker 1: or not the person who follows him is better or worse.

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Speaker 1: I think I go back to my original concern that

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Speaker 1: there isn't a strategy beyond the initial action for what

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Speaker 1: happens next. And as much as you can hope for

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Speaker 1: a governmental change that will be beneficial, there is always

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Speaker 1: a risk that the change will be worse. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's where I spoke to that sobriety that I

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Speaker 1: think that we all need to have and start paying

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Speaker 1: attention and understanding that there is a risk, there's a benefit,

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Speaker 1: and there is a cost and the risk at this

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Speaker 1: point can be can be either of those things, and

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Speaker 1: not to concern what happens next.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're speaking with Professor Charlene Graham. She is the

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Speaker 3: professor of law at Chase College of Law at Northern

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Speaker 3: Kentucky University. You know, Professor Graham, I called you and

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Speaker 3: I wanted to speak to you. We spoke the other

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Speaker 3: day and we had you on the air with Sterling

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Speaker 3: and I a few weeks ago, and I wanted you

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Speaker 3: to come on to discuss the Epstein files, and that's

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Speaker 3: what we were going to talk about tonight. And I

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Speaker 3: do want you to stay for another segment. Are you

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Speaker 3: okay to stay because I do want to get into

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Speaker 3: that as well, because there's been some some action on

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Speaker 3: that and I don't think that anybody is planning on

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Speaker 3: dropping the the Epstein files case, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 3: I do think that that's an important to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, this is day one with a war on Iran.

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Speaker 3: The US is now officially embedded in a war in

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Speaker 3: Iran with Israel, and this is this is obviously the

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Speaker 3: topic that we all need to discuss in some matter

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Speaker 3: of form before I ask you to hold on because

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Speaker 3: we're gonna we're gonna take one a break in a minute.

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Speaker 3: Do you feel when do you feel like Congress is

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Speaker 3: going to get together? Is it going to be tomorrow?

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Speaker 3: Is it gonna be Monday? And what are your thoughts

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Speaker 3: on how that is going to go to? You know,

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Speaker 3: how are they gonna I have no idea how they are.

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Speaker 3: They're going to obviously vote on whether or not that

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Speaker 3: this war is justified, and maybe it goes down party lines.

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Speaker 3: But even if we vote no to not go to

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Speaker 3: war with Iran, how do we how do we figure

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Speaker 3: that out?

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Speaker 1: I hope they will meet tomorrow. I don't think they

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Speaker 1: will meet before Monday, honestly, And wow, extracting us from

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Speaker 1: this situation will be challenging. It's not going to be easy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, answer, I.

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Speaker 1: Do think at this point, you know, I well I'll

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Speaker 1: say this, I hope that Congress will not support this

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Speaker 1: action because of the severe risk and implications on the

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Speaker 1: other end. But you know, I also have to think

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Speaker 1: about that possibility and what will be the ripple effect

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Speaker 1: of Congressional approval after the fact. I think this, that's

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Speaker 1: a very poor precedent for the future, and I hope

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Speaker 1: that Congress thinks about that very carefully.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, stay tuned, hang with me, will you please, Charlene,

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Speaker 3: so that we can go into the Epstein files. I

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Speaker 3: did want to mention Neil Sedaka passed away at the

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Speaker 3: age of eighty six yesterday. It was famous for hits

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Speaker 3: like breaking Up is Hard to Do and this one

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Speaker 3: that my producer is playing right now, Laughter in the Rain.

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Speaker 3: What a sweet message. I want to be positive in

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Speaker 3: some possible way. We still have to listen to music

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Speaker 3: and honor those that have given us great songs like this.

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Speaker 3: We're going to be back after news and Travegan weather

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Speaker 3: on this beautiful day today in Cincinnati, it was gorgeous.

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Speaker 3: Donna d Saturday Night at seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati's.

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Speaker 2: Last All Night at Cincinnati.

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Speaker 3: We got through a tough segment on the war and

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Speaker 3: Iran I'm just I really have been bothered by it

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Speaker 3: all day. I want I'm somebody that wants peace, not

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Speaker 3: for and to find out that we are in another

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Speaker 3: war in the Middle East has just been very hard

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Speaker 3: for me to deal with today. And I'm so grateful

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Speaker 3: that she is stuck around and hung out with me,

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Speaker 3: because we've got another.

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Speaker 2: Topic, a tough one to tackle.

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Speaker 3: Charlene Graham, Professor of Law at Chase College of Law

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Speaker 3: at Northern Kentucky University. We're going to to now get

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Speaker 3: into the Epstein files. Do you have the energy for

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Speaker 3: this or how you doing there?

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Speaker 2: We are very strongly Okay, good near me? Yes, I

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Speaker 2: got you.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I feel very strongly about the Epstein files, and quite frankly, yes,

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Speaker 1: the fact that we seem to have Claire war on

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Speaker 1: a sovereign nation does not distract me from the seriousness

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Speaker 1: of the Epstein files and the need for hopefully the

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Speaker 1: public to stay later focused on this issue if they

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Speaker 1: seek to do justice for the women and others who

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Speaker 1: were abused by this by this enterprise.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, I love that you use the

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Speaker 3: word justice, because you know that's what we are seeking

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Speaker 3: for the victims. And we've had a tiny little bit

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Speaker 3: of it with the arrest of King Charles's brother who

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Speaker 3: has long been seen and viewed in pictures and videos

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Speaker 3: with Jeffrey Epstein for years and years, although he's maintained

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Speaker 3: his innocent. Prince Andrew was arrested in connection with the

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Speaker 3: Epstein files. It wasn't exactly on the charges that we like,

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Speaker 3: but more could be coming. Peter Andalson arrested longtime politician

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Speaker 3: in the UK Larry Summers resigned his post from Harvard.

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Speaker 3: Peter Attia, that was a very interesting thread with Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 3: He's the longevity doctor. Resigned from CNN for At first

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Speaker 3: he was planning on staying and then.

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Speaker 2: They said probably not. This is not going well for you.

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Speaker 3: Bill Gates apparently apologized to his staff. Multiple professors have

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Speaker 3: been removed, but most recently Hillary and Bill Clinton just

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Speaker 3: testified this week under oath that they basically knew nothing.

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Speaker 3: Hillary had never even met Jeffrey Epstein, and Bill Clinton,

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Speaker 3: who had quite a few more questions to answer than Hillary,

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Speaker 3: said you know, his horrible behavior had nothing to do

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Speaker 3: with it, but asked that others, including Howard Lutnik and

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Speaker 3: President Trump also testify under oath do you think that

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Speaker 3: will happen?

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Speaker 1: I don't know how it doesn't happen. I think they

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Speaker 1: You know, there there is this opening of the Pantura's

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Speaker 1: box here. When you decide to subpoena a former president,

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Speaker 1: former sectary of state who had nothing to do with this,

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Speaker 1: You're you're calling individuals to testify. That is setting a

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Speaker 1: precedent for the president to have to testify. And if that,

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Speaker 1: if you were trying to avoid it, you made it

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Speaker 1: unavoidable by calling former President Clinton. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: you avoid that. Now when it will happen, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it'll be anytime soon, and it may be after

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Speaker 1: the next presidential election. But yes, I think that that

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Speaker 1: president has now been set.

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Speaker 3: Professor Graham, there are so many files still missing. The

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Speaker 3: d o J self acknowledges there are more than two

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Speaker 3: million documents that remain unreleased. What is it going to

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Speaker 3: take to ever see Are we ever going to see it?

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Speaker 3: First of all, the full documents of the Epstein files,

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Speaker 3: and how will we get them? Do you think it's

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Speaker 3: ever gonna the full files will be released?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, my mother used to say, what to

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Speaker 1: do in the dark eventually comes out in the light,

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Speaker 1: and I think the attempt to hide this information uh

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Speaker 1: has an exploration date. I think that the number of

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Speaker 1: individuals who were not victims who are being protected in

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Speaker 1: direct violation of the law is something that you know,

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Speaker 1: time will tell. It is interesting to me that approximately

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Speaker 1: eight states, eight countries now are looking at these files

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Speaker 1: very carefully and have begun investigations in those countries you

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Speaker 1: spoke of of the UK, Norway, France, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Turkey,

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Speaker 1: and Slovakia are all initiating investigations in the wake of

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Speaker 1: the Epstein files. And honestly, that's the indictment. The indictment

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Speaker 1: is that you have eight countries who are taking the

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Speaker 1: exposure of this information more seriously, but you really do

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Speaker 1: not have the United States acting in a more serious

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Speaker 1: way with regard to this. You know, honestly, the only

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Speaker 1: people I want to hear from are the victims and

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Speaker 1: the alleged perpetrators individuals who are identified in these situations,

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Speaker 1: because unless you're unless the Justice Department wants to tell

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Speaker 1: us that they are initiating.

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Speaker 2: A new round of.

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Speaker 1: The criminal investigations into this enterprise with an eye toward

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Speaker 1: bringing other indictments, which does not seem to be the

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Speaker 1: case right now. Then that's one that's one thing. But

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Speaker 1: right now, I think that in order to do justice

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Speaker 1: for the victims, you know, their transparency is required, and

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Speaker 1: that means that certain individuals are going to be embarrassed.

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Speaker 1: I think that the country has to come to terms with,

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Speaker 1: you know, what are its core beliefs. Are we going

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Speaker 1: you know, how are we going to protect women and

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Speaker 1: children from being sexually exploited, sexually abused, sexually assaulted? You know,

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Speaker 1: is that really important to us? And if it is,

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Speaker 1: then we need to stand on principle and act accordingly.

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Speaker 3: You know, I was going to ask you because you

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Speaker 3: mentioned that there's eight other countries looking into this. I

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Speaker 3: feel like that's how we're going to get all of

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Speaker 3: the information is because other countries are going to go

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Speaker 3: I want. I saw a comedian saying that we have

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Speaker 3: a Department of Justice and the FBI. Why are the

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Speaker 3: Epstein files being released slowly and redacted and the American

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Speaker 3: people are trying to figure out who this is? Shouldn't

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Speaker 3: shouldn't it be the job of our paid FBI and

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Speaker 3: Department of Justice to be able to do that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's it was.

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Speaker 3: It was comical because he was joking about it, but

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Speaker 3: it was also serious about it. I mean, trying to

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Speaker 3: piece this stuff together. And Pam Bondi and Cash Battel

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Speaker 3: are seeing this stuff unredacted and in its full form.

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Speaker 2: It's bizarre when you think about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and even those senators who were representatives who were

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Speaker 1: given access to the unredacted records have have complained about

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Speaker 1: the lack of full transparency. So you know, this is

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Speaker 1: a significant problem. I think that, you know, from a

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Speaker 1: legal perspective, I could fault Congress for creating laws without

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Speaker 1: clear enforcement mechanisms to not just hold people in contempt.

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Speaker 1: But the contempt power can be wished, it can be financial.

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Speaker 1: It can also be you know, placing someone in detention

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Speaker 1: until those files are produced. I think you can put

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Speaker 1: other mechanisms, content mechanisms into a law to kind of

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Speaker 1: strongly persuade people to follow the law and to reveal

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Speaker 1: those those information. But I think people are I hate

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Speaker 1: to say it, it just sounds as if people are

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Speaker 1: or it appears that people are more conflict a verse

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Speaker 1: in this particular subject. And I'm not clear on why.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think, well, when I say I'm not clear.

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Speaker 1: I will say one part of me says, well, as

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Speaker 1: we created a society where because of your title, status

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Speaker 1: and well, we do not hold you accountable for your

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Speaker 1: bad acts. I mean, we clearly have laws against sexual assault, rape,

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Speaker 1: child molistation, child rape, we have trafficking. We have the laws.

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Speaker 1: But I think our society and our moral compass is

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Speaker 1: being tested right now.

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Speaker 3: It's if you look at the polling with the American people,

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Speaker 3: they want answers to I mean, they really do. But

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Speaker 3: I do think you're absolutely right. This case reveals wealth

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Speaker 3: and power within the American justice. There are two different justicisms,

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Speaker 3: one that for the wealthy and powerful and one for

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Speaker 3: the people that on the regular laws. Now, I know

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Speaker 3: the human journey behind the headlines is really what I'd

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Speaker 3: like you to discuss because I know you work with

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Speaker 3: sex trafficking victims, so you have seen the trauma firsthand.

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Speaker 3: Many of these survivors were miners. We just discussed about that,

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Speaker 3: and they were first approached by grown men and women,

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Speaker 3: many of them to this day. You know, these survivors

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Speaker 3: carry shame and guilt. Do they ever recover fully from

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Speaker 3: this type of abuse, especially when the added pressure is

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Speaker 3: fighting for justice and in such a public way.

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Speaker 1: I think healing is possible, but I think it is

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Speaker 1: an arduous journey. You know. It's one thing when you

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Speaker 1: think about healing, when you think about recovery from the trauma, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, there is the physical harm, there's a psychic harm.

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Speaker 1: And to the extent to which you know, a human

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Speaker 1: being matures, gets perspective, kind of has other positive experiences

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Speaker 1: that they are able to diminish the effectiveness of their

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Speaker 1: trauma experience and its influence on their ability to live

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Speaker 1: a healthy life. I think that there are plenty of

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Speaker 1: individuals who have that capacity. They've done the work, whether

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Speaker 1: it's therapeutic, whether it's you know, changing their environment and

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Speaker 1: their friend group, their family group. They've got that love

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Speaker 1: and support and they're able to heal. There are plenty

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Speaker 1: of cases like that. But on the other side, there

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Speaker 1: are plenty of cases of individuals who spend the rest

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Speaker 1: of their lives trying to move past the severity of

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Speaker 1: the trauma that they experience. You know, the humiliating, it,

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Speaker 1: the the you know, the the injury is something that

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Speaker 1: you're some have spoken of constantly fighting to to not

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Speaker 1: dwell on right, you know, there can be, you know,

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Speaker 1: with any kind of trauma. You know, some things can

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Speaker 1: trigger you. You know, a site, a sound, a smell,

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Speaker 1: you know, a word that was used by a perpetrator

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Speaker 1: in a particular way that did harm you. Hear that

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Speaker 1: word in another context and it reminds you. It's like

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Speaker 1: sends your mind back to that trauma moment, and it's

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Speaker 1: and it's hard to get beyond that without you know,

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Speaker 1: deliberate intentional action to try to heal and move past that.

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Speaker 1: You know, but we have you know, when I teach

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Speaker 1: my students in the subject area, you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the things we have to talk about is the relative

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Speaker 1: immaturity that is present with regard to entitlement, to intimate relationships,

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Speaker 1: the the the skills that people have, the the issue

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Speaker 1: of consent, and it speaks to a level of immaturity

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Speaker 1: which I think is an undercurrent to all of these

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Speaker 1: conversations around trafficking, right. I mean, it's it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: hard I think that, you know, I listen to individuals,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, Bill Gates and others you know, have

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Speaker 1: contrition in their words. But you know, I am not

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Speaker 1: feeling a robust sense of accountability taking responsibility understanding what

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Speaker 1: they have done wrong. You know, I think I've seen

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Speaker 1: other programs and maybe domestic violence, where people are being

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Speaker 1: held accountable for their understanding and to try to encourage

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Speaker 1: them to make other decisions in their relationships. But where

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Speaker 1: is that with regard to sexual assault. We are focused

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Speaker 1: as so much on the victim, right, But where is

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Speaker 1: the accountability for the perpetrator to make them understand the

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00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: real damage that they have caused and to hold them

439
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: accountable for the damage that they have caused. I think

440
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: this entire Epstein episode is revealing that breakdown in our system.

441
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: Because those individuals that even that you've mentioned, who have

442
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: stepped down from jobs and other things because they were

443
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: named in these files, I don't see them being hauled

444
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: them to speak before Congress.

445
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: No, that accountability, right, And I think that's what Hillary

446
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: and Bill Clinton said, you know, get some of these

447
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 3: people that are mentioned over and over again. I don't

448
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 3: mind doing it, but like bring some of these other

449
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 3: people in, like Coward Lutnik. What we just saw was

450
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: you know, photographed on the island with Jeffrey Epstein, which

451
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 3: kind of disputed some of the things that he said

452
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: about it. I couldn't agree more about Bill Gates. When

453
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,719
Speaker 3: you see Bill Gates being asked these questions, he just

454
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 3: looks absolutely uncomfortable I'm talking about it, I mean, very

455
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: uncomfortable and learned. His words are all jumbled up and

456
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: things like that. And I do think the victims are

457
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 3: coming forward. They're pushing this forward. They're always in front

458
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: of the cameras now saying all right, we need more action,

459
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 3: we need more you know, we want people to be

460
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 3: held accountable. Do you see somebody standing trial for these crimes?

461
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: Do you see actually, you know, somebody in the courtroom

462
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: with a you know, being held accountable.

463
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 4: I don't know.

464
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: I honestly don't know. I think what you saw in

465
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: the UK is a reflection of you know, the statute

466
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: limitations or in that case the victim is now deceased,

467
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: you know, the case goes away. I I am concerned

468
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: that collectively there is this desire for the whole thing

469
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: to just go away. But it's not going to go away.

470
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: It will resurface if we do not confront it, if

471
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: we don't confront the real injury that has occurred. You

472
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: know that there are there are some similar trials going

473
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: on with other trafficking implications. You know that the two

474
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: real estate brothers in Florida are on trial right now.

475
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: There uh, you know, there have been other trials relating

476
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: to I think it's the former CEO to Abercrombie and Church,

477
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: it's you know, so there are other trials where individuals

478
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: are being held accountable for their misdeeds. But this is

479
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: something that I'm not I'm not sure. I think it

480
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: would require a change in the leadership of the Department

481
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: of Justice. I think it's going to require changes in

482
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: the leadership at the FBI. I think, you know, and

483
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: you know, my hope is that the integrity that the

484
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: FBI had held itself to and strives to continue to

485
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: hold will survive this and they will be able to

486
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: do justice for the victims because I believe I have

487
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: so many friends who are agents. I believe that, you know,

488
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: they want to do the right thing, they want to

489
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: act with integrity, they want to uphold the law. But

490
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: will they survive this. You know, we just had another

491
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: round of I think it was reported last week another

492
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: round of agents were fired because of their involvement in

493
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: the records case down in Florida.

494
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just saw that too. Yeah, all right, we're running.

495
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: At a telling effect that we are concerned.

496
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 3: One last question before I let you go and thank

497
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 3: you so much. Talking to Charlene Graham, Professor of lawt

498
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: Chase College of Law at Northern Kentucky University. What lessons

499
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 3: should your law students take from the Epstein case.

500
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: I encourage them to read beyond the law, read history.

501
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: They have to be intellectually curious, you know, I tell

502
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: them all the time, we read for a living, and

503
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: they need to focus on not just what they see

504
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: on the news or the media, but really take some

505
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: time for themselves, really get perspectives on what's going on,

506
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: and be clear about why they have decided to enter

507
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: this profession, what they hope to do in this profession,

508
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: because I think they will unfortunately be responsible for the cleanup.

509
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: They will have to be advising legislators and law enforcement

510
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: and other policy makers to correct the clear gaps in

511
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 1: our system that are being exposed by all of these actions.

512
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 1: That's what I tell them.

513
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 3: Well engaged, I approciate you books. Your read is always

514
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 3: a good, always a good thing to do. I appreciate

515
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 3: your insight, not only on the Epstein files, but being

516
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,479
Speaker 3: with me tonight on talking about the Warren Iran's two

517
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,919
Speaker 3: very hard topics to discuss, and you've helped us sort

518
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 3: through both of them. Thank you so much, Charlene Grand,

519
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 3: Professor of Law, Chase College of Law, Northern Kentucky University.

520
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: Please come back on with me again. I will thank you,

521
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: thank you so much.

522
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 3: Coming up, we're gonna lighten it up a little bit

523
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 3: with doctor Wes. He's gonna join me. Are positive people annoying?

524
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 3: Maybe so, but they are gonna live longer and healthier.

525
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 3: We're gonna talk about that coming up. But first news,

526
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 3: weather and traffic. It's Donna D Saturday Night, seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati.

527
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 2: We are back.

528
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 3: We survived two hot topics tonight. Now we get to

529
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 3: have a little bit more of a lighter night with

530
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 3: you know, relationships stuff, producing the show. Russ Jackson, I

531
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 3: am Donna D. Yeah, moving towards positive, positive things. Life

532
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 3: has been beautiful today in Cincinnati. It's warm weather, the

533
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 3: sun was out. I was out on my deck all day,

534
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: the fire was lit. I was wearing my dog out

535
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 3: and now I even talked to him in a while.

536
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 3: Who's joining me, doctor Wes? Are you feeling positive?

537
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: Tonight.

538
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 5: It was a wonderful day. Beautify. Yes, I'm definitely feeling

539
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 5: positive good.

540
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: It's been a couple of weeks since I've seen you

541
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 3: and talked to you.

542
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: How are you.

543
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 5: I'm doing well, staying really busy. But I'm so excited

544
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 5: to call in tonight.

545
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 3: I know I am too, because we haven't talked in

546
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 3: a while. I've missed you on the show and I've

547
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 3: been doing it by myself, learning a lot, and I've

548
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 3: had a lot of listeners call in, so it wasn't

549
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 3: just me and Russ of course has been with me

550
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 3: the whole time too. But I am glad you're back.

551
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 3: And I know you're not a big sports fan, but

552
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 3: the Winter Olympics are over and it was really good.

553
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 3: I thought the Winter Olympics were great. But I want

554
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: to highlight Eileen Goo. She was won two gold medals

555
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: and one silver in the Winter Olympics, becoming the first

556
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 3: freestyle skier to win three medals in the Winter Olympics.

557
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 3: She's unbelievable, unbelievably talented. But what I want to highlight

558
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 3: she had a press conference that made some headlines and

559
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 3: I want to play it to get your opinion on

560
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 3: the other side, do.

561
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: You think before you speak?

562
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 6: Because you answer questions so quickly and so comprehensively, whether

563
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 6: it's about geopolitics or your sport or aerodynamics, like can

564
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 6: you take us into your brain?

565
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 7: Thank you, Charlotte, that's very kind, Oh man?

566
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 2: Do I think I think? Overall?

567
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 7: I'm just a pensive person, like I'm a very introspective

568
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 7: I'm an introspective young woman, Like I spend a lot

569
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 7: of time in my head, and it's not a bad

570
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 7: place to be.

571
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: I journal a lot.

572
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 7: I break down all of my thought processes. I think

573
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 7: I apply a very analytical lens to my own thinking,

574
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 7: and I kind of modify it because it's so interesting.

575
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 7: You can control what you think, like, you can control

576
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 7: how you think, and therefore you can control who you are,

577
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 7: and especially as a young person like I'm twenty two,

578
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 7: So with neuroplasticity on my side, I can literally become

579
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 7: exactly who.

580
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 2: I want to be. How cool is that?

581
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: Like?

582
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 2: How empowering is that?

583
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 7: Right? And so the fact is I get to become

584
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 7: every day the kind of person that me at age

585
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 7: eight would revere like I would be obsessed with me today,

586
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 7: are you kidding? I would love me and I think

587
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 7: that's the biggest flex of all time that you can have,

588
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 7: Like little younger, you be proud of you today. And

589
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 7: so I guess for me, it's like, yes, I spend

590
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 7: a lot of time in my own head. Yes I

591
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 7: think a lot, but it's not really like in an

592
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 7: egotistical kind of way. It's in like a tinkering, like

593
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 7: a scientist kind of way. I'm always like trying to modify.

594
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 7: I'm trying to think, how can I be better? How

595
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 7: can I approach my own brain the way that I

596
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 7: approach my craft of free skiing, so that I can

597
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 7: be better tomorrow than I was today.

598
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 3: I just love that doctor Wes and she talked about

599
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 3: now I know you've talked about this to the neuroplasticity,

600
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 3: that we can actually mold ourselves obviously when we're younger.

601
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 3: She's twenty two, and she talked about how she can

602
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 3: mold herself into what she wants to be.

603
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: Is that a real thing?

604
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 4: Absolutely so.

605
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 5: Neuroplasticity it refers to the brain's ability to form new

606
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 5: neural connections. So what that means is that we strengthen

607
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 5: what we use and we and weaken. So either you're

608
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 5: either strengthening a pathway or you're weakening existing pathways, and

609
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 5: your brain reorganizes functioning.

610
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 4: Uh.

611
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 5: So basically, it's continuously updating what you repeatedly do, think, feel,

612
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 5: and attend to. So repeated patterns literally become biological tendencies

613
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 5: with neuroplasticity.

614
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 3: Okay, So breaking that down just a little bit, the

615
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 3: more that you the more that you believe in something,

616
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 3: and the more that you practice something, the more it

617
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 3: becomes a reality.

618
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, the more that your brain is moving you in

619
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 5: that direction, and it becomes more of like an automny

620
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 5: response for you. So you can really modify your habits.

621
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 5: You can modify how you manage your emotions, you can

622
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 5: modify what you believe about yourself and other people. You

623
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 5: can modify what you believe about yourself. Yeah, and that's

624
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 5: why talk therapy is so helpful. And but it sounds

625
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 5: like what she's done is she's really she mentioned journaling.

626
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 5: I think she's done a good job of recognizing what

627
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 5: her brain is telling her on a daily basis and

628
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,399
Speaker 5: how that's connected to her behavior and how and so

629
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 5: she's modifying the way she thinks so that she can

630
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 5: then modify the way she feels and believes.

631
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 3: So I knew you were going to pick up on

632
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 3: the on the journal comment because you are a very

633
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 3: big journal guy and I am too, But I never

634
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 3: really looked at it as like analytical data, like how

635
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 3: she did like to re examine and maneuver what you

636
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 3: want to be by journaling.

637
00:43:58,760 --> 00:43:59,959
Speaker 2: I get it out of my head.

638
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 3: I do a gratitude journal, but I never looked at

639
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 3: it in terms of data. Isn't that interesting at twenty

640
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 3: two years old, she's doing that?

641
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 4: Yep, that's exactly. Yeah.

642
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 5: It's it's such a good practice because you can reflect

643
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 5: back and you can see the patterns. So it's really

644
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 5: about the patterns, and you want to be able to

645
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 5: pick up on those, the patterns of the way you're

646
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 5: thinking and the way you're feeling, and then target those.

647
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 5: So if you change the pattern long enough, the nervous

648
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 5: system will update. It's like a software update you for

649
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 5: your brain. It's like that's help people, you know. It's

650
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 5: like we do software updates for everything else. We have

651
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 5: to do that for what we should be doing that

652
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 5: for ourselves, and we do that. Your brain's naturally doing that,

653
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 5: But why don't we use this process to our advantage.

654
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 4: So if we.

655
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 5: It's like you're getting in there and you're engineering, and

656
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 5: you're reflecting on your thoughts and you're you're changing them,

657
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 5: and journaling helps you to write out the story of

658
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 5: what believing.

659
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 2: So so jo so helpful.

660
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 3: So doctor Wes, we're talking to doctor Wes, licensed marriage

661
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 3: family therapist, usually a big guest on the show. Partner,

662
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 3: my partner sometimes most times. But so if if if

663
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 3: I'm writing that I had negative let's jay I journal

664
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 3: in the morning and a bunch of negative thoughts I

665
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 3: had yesterday about myself and I decide, Okay.

666
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:31,479
Speaker 2: I have to come.

667
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 3: I have to when this negative thought comes up, I

668
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 3: have to The data says that I have to replace

669
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 3: it with something so positive that that negative isn't even

670
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 3: going to ripple in my energy centers something like that.

671
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, so so you can't. Yes, that's exactly right.

672
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 5: You're basically you're saying, this is what I believe today,

673
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 5: but this is who I'm becoming, this is who I

674
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 5: want to be. So you're noticing things that you're doing

675
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 5: to become the best version of yourself. So it's not

676
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 5: that we're ignoring who you are today. We're just trying

677
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 5: to lead the brain in a different direction. It's like

678
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 5: having a flashlight and you're going into a dark room.

679
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 5: You're trying to lead the brain that this is what

680
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 5: I'm noticing about what I'm doing today. It's helping me

681
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 5: be who I want to become. And because the brain

682
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 5: is going to use the neural pathways that are most frequented.

683
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 4: Does that make sense, So we.

684
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 5: Want to create a different We want to create a

685
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 5: different neuropathway for you to go down. So yeah, So

686
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 5: it's like you're leading yourself and discovering you're actually you're

687
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 5: actually creating who you want to be through your journal

688
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 5: as you're writing out this version of yourself, so.

689
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 3: That the neural pathways that aren't normally fired up or

690
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 3: lit up you can you can light those up by

691
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 3: journaling and reading the data and figuring out where you're negative,

692
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 3: where you should be positive, where you want to go,

693
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 3: and how to get there.

694
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, she is.

695
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 3: I mean this woman is so she's so smart and intelligent.

696
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 3: I think she goes to Stanford and she's also a model.

697
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 2: She's gorgeous.

698
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 3: She won two gold medals and one silver, winning three

699
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 3: medals in the Winter Olympics for freestyle skiing.

700
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 2: I mean's she's just a powerhouse.

701
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 3: Do you Because there was some controversy because she talked

702
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 3: that way, let me ask you personally, did.

703
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: You find that inspiring or.

704
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 3: Did you feel I know the answer to that, did

705
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 3: you feel like she was being an egotistical because a

706
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 3: lot of people said she's arrogant.

707
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 5: Well, it's say is that maybe they don't understand the

708
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 5: process of what she's talking about, because I found it

709
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 5: so inspiring and I know from personal experience she's on

710
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:57,959
Speaker 5: the right track.

711
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 4: She absolutely is is.

712
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 5: Is taking advantage of the brain's neuroplasticity and also just

713
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 5: hope and optimism and positive psychology. She's using all of

714
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 5: that to her advantage.

715
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

716
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 5: So no, I didn't think there is arrogance at all.

717
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 5: I think that people just didn't understand it and so

718
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 5: they interpreted.

719
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 4: It as arrogant.

720
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, because she was saying if I was my younger self,

721
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 3: I'd be so proud, of course.

722
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: Like you're an Olympics layer. I mean, of course you would.

723
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 2: And why would you humble yourself?

724
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,879
Speaker 3: I mean, this is what I don't understand about it

725
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 3: because and which leads me to my next question. Because

726
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 3: you brought up positivity. This is I really do believe

727
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 3: that positive people.

728
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 2: Annoy a certain group of people. I mean, would you

729
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: agree with that?

730
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I do.

731
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 5: I think because some people were in such sadness and

732
00:48:55,400 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 5: despair and they don't have hope. That is very annoying

733
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 5: when you see someone who is opposite of that.

734
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 3: But even when, for instance, and I say this all

735
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 3: the time, I when I go out to dinner with

736
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 3: my team at work, and you know, I'm plant based,

737
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 3: so it's always a challenge to order something, you know,

738
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 3: and not even for me. They just all worry about

739
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: whether I'm gonna be able to have something to eat,

740
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 3: and they make fun of me.

741
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: And she's the problem child.

742
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 3: She's a vegan, she's plant based or whatever. And I said,

743
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 3: if I was sitting here smoking Marboro lights and drinking.

744
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 2: Whiskey, everyone would applaud me. But because I'm plant based.

745
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's so funny how that kind of

746
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 3: gets twisted. Do you know what I mean? Like positive

747
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 3: people should be should be rewarded. I think it's a

748
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 3: it's tough enough to stay positive most often, and so

749
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 3: I think it should be it should be rewarded when

750
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 3: someone like Eileen Goo does a and it was I'm

751
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 3: not taking anything away from the people that were inspired

752
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 3: by her, because they were way more that were inspired

753
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 3: by her than those that said she was arrogant. But

754
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 3: there's an underlying thing about positive people in your life.

755
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 3: And I'll move on from that because we've been talking

756
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 3: about the power of positivity for years and years in

757
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 3: this country. And so I think that the study only

758
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 3: confirms that optimistic people.

759
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 2: There's a new study.

760
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 3: Those that think good things will happen are generally like, yeah,

761
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 3: they have faith and they think good things are happening

762
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 3: are less likely to suffer from chronic disease and or

763
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 3: die prematurely, living longer lives by anywhere from eleven to

764
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 3: fifteen percent. So do you feel like you have to

765
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 3: be happy to be optimistic, doctor Wes.

766
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 4: You do not have to be happy to be optimistic.

767
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 4: Those are processes.

768
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 5: So happiness is primarily an emotional state, whereas optimism is

769
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 5: more of what we would call a cognitive orientation toward

770
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 5: the future. So what that means it's holding on to

771
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 5: hope and possibilities. So it's like the bridge that you take.

772
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 5: It's the bridge that you take to get out of suffering.

773
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 5: Optimism is what I call the bridge out of suffering.

774
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 4: Not the reward at the end.

775
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 5: So often what happens is hope often appears before happiness returns.

776
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 5: So that's why people hope often appears before happiness returns.

777
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 5: So happiness is an emotion, whereas optimism is more of

778
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 5: a way of thinking and a way of thinking about

779
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 5: having hope and possibility for change.

780
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 3: Okay, So you're going through challenges now, and I like

781
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 3: how you said optimism is the bridge.

782
00:51:58,360 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: So you do.

783
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 3: Feel optimistic of what could happen, a new job, a

784
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 3: new love life, something, but right now you're challenged and

785
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 3: probably not the happiest person right now.

786
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 4: That's right.

787
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 5: You can be sad and optimistic. Right So happiness asks

788
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 5: how do I feel right now? Optimism would ask what

789
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 5: do I believe is still possible? So you can be

790
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 5: sad and hold on to hope of possibilities. You can

791
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,720
Speaker 5: be anxious and hopeful, you can be exhausted and forward thinking.

792
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 4: Right.

793
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 5: So it's optimism is less about mood and more about

794
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 5: meaning and expectation. Okay, so is the way to look

795
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 5: at that.

796
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 3: So when you say optimism and I just want to

797
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 3: just make sure This is clear. Optimism isn't fake it

798
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,439
Speaker 3: until you make it, or ignoring reality or a pie

799
00:52:58,520 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 3: in the sky.

800
00:52:59,480 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 2: Right.

801
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 4: No, No, it's not, it's not.

802
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 5: It's an awareness of what is in the present moment,

803
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 5: but it's a stance towards the future. It says that

804
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 5: I am going this is my intention for the future,

805
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 5: this is what I would like to pursue, this is

806
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 5: what I would like to experience in the future. And

807
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 5: so you kind of set your sights on that and

808
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 5: you're optimistically hopeful that you can get there. But you know,

809
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 5: let's if optimism required happiness, then think about it this way.

810
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 5: People in grief couldn't be hopeful, right, Depressed individuals couldn't

811
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 5: pursue recovery. Growth after trauma wouldn't exist. So so there

812
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 5: you can be in the darkest of places and still

813
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 5: hold on to optimism because it's a stance of where

814
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 5: you want to go.

815
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 4: As long as you hold on to.

816
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 5: That, that's why people, that's why I think that the

817
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 5: study shows that that what's the results that you talked about,

818
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 5: It makes sense.

819
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 3: Okay, so and even we can use this gear I

820
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 3: lean goo. Right, Optimism is like training your brain to

821
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 3: see the good things like training your body when you

822
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 3: go to the gym with weights, training your brain to

823
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 3: look at the positive, and then you fire up those neuroplasty, right,

824
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 3: you fire up those that maybe haven't ever been fired

825
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 3: up when you continue to train.

826
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 2: It's a practice, right.

827
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 4: Right, right, it is. It certainly is a practice.

828
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 5: And that's why the practice of journaling every day is

829
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 5: just feedback for your brain.

830
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 4: It's helping you.

831
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 5: It's forcing you to go down a different neuropathway in

832
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,720
Speaker 5: your brain. Then you automatically probably would go down because

833
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 5: the brain we all have a negativity bias. We're all

834
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 5: thinking about what's wrong right and what could be better?

835
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 5: So let's focus on let's retrain our brain towards. This

836
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 5: is who I intend to be today, right, this is

837
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 5: These are the faults I want to have, These are

838
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 5: the beliefs that I'm working towards. And it absolutely will

839
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 5: will lead you in.

840
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 4: A different direction. There are other ways that.

841
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 5: I help people, but journaling is a good first start.

842
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 3: Okay, name one other because in the study that I have,

843
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,439
Speaker 3: they do give about four or five four or five,

844
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 3: and I really do. I do most of them every day,

845
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 3: if not all of them. But can you give me

846
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 3: one more that you tell your clients to figure out

847
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 3: how to train your brain how to be positive and optimistic.

848
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all the test out there thinking.

849
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 5: So I say, put every thought that you have on trial,

850
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 5: and let's really look at what is the evidence for

851
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 5: the thought, what's the evidence against the thought? Because most

852
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 5: often the thoughts that we're having are not truly accurate.

853
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 5: They're not one hundred percent accurate. So that helps me

854
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 5: to help my clients to know what are those traps

855
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 5: they're falling into. What are those negative belk we'll call

856
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 5: it sticky thinking? What are those thoughts that are so

857
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 5: sticky that you get stuck in them? And I want

858
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 5: to isolate those so that we can we can help

859
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 5: you move out of the sticky thinking. So that's what

860
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 5: I tell them to do throughout the day, and then

861
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 5: they come into session and we talk about what are

862
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 5: those common sticky thoughts are getting stuck in and that

863
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,879
Speaker 5: helps move us just a little closer to that a

864
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 5: better place for them.

865
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 2: I love it.

866
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 3: And and as you continue to I mean because it

867
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:38,240
Speaker 3: does take work. I mean, it takes work to train

868
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,919
Speaker 3: your brain to get what you want. And then when

869
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 3: your brain is positive your emotions become lighter and your

870
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 3: actions are lighter, and you tap into not to get

871
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 3: too spiritual, to tap into the energy that you attract

872
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 3: in the world. So Wayne Dyer used to say, angry

873
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 3: people live in an angry world. Happy people live in

874
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 3: a happy world. It's the same world. And it's always

875
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 3: our choice, right, right.

876
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 4: That's exactly right. Okay, yeah, that's our choice.

877
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 3: So in this study of where it talks about positive

878
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 3: people are going to live longer and they are less

879
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 3: likely to suffer from chronic disease or die prematurely and

880
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 3: live longer by eleven to fifteen percent. Like, that's a

881
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 3: big deal that you're not plagued with chronic disease and

882
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 3: your positivity and your outlook on life, and it makes

883
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 3: sense to me creates that healthier, longer life. And it

884
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 3: also I watched this whole thing and aging well, where

885
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 3: people age well because they're.

886
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 2: Not weighed down by their emotions.

887
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 3: You literally can see people's faces weighed down by heavy emotions.

888
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 3: I mean, we all have them, but it's the determining

889
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 3: factor of how long you're going to have them. So

890
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 3: just a couple of things in this study, they said

891
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 3: gratitude journal is focus for focusing on the good. Same

892
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 3: thing as journaling is what you're talking about. Prayer, meditation.

893
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 3: This is a big one here. Stop complaining. Stop complaining,

894
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 3: and your optimism will already and your positivity will already

895
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 3: start working in your favor. Music, uplifting music. This is

896
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 3: probably the hardest one in some aspects. But remove negative

897
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 3: people in your life that was on the list.

898
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 2: What do you think about that?

899
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 3: And we just have like fifteen seconds before we have

900
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 3: to take a break.

901
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it's gonna be an If you're talking to

902
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 5: people that are constantly perpetuating negative thinking for you, they're

903
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 5: they're like enabling the negative thinking to continue. We've got

904
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 5: to root that out, right, We've got to figure out

905
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 5: a way to move away from that.

906
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 3: Just take some space for a little bit until you

907
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 3: can at least figure out how you can help or

908
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 3: support somebody that's super negative in your life. Doctor Wes,

909
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 3: you're gonna stay around for one more break, right, We're

910
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 3: gonna talk about a couple of things, including dating in

911
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six and this new thing called ghost lighting,

912
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 3: not ghosting, ghost lighting as if dating isn't hard enough,

913
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 3: and also taking emotional responsibility for your own energy before

914
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 3: you bring it to your partner. We'll talk about that

915
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 3: coming up. It's Dona D along with Doctor Wes. It's

916
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 3: seven hundred WLW Cincinnati. Whoo, right out of the news,

917
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 3: all the smokes.

918
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 2: It's Dona D Saturday night. It's so nice to have

919
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 2: warm weather in Cincinnati.

920
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,439
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm looking up to this crazy forecast.

921
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 3: It is forty eight right now with light rain, and

922
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 3: it's gonna be chilly again tomorrow forty five, forty two

923
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 3: into the week.

924
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 2: Looks like a ton of rain coming our way.

925
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 3: I just opened my porch. I just opened my backyard,

926
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 3: my dog. That's the hardest part having a dog. When

927
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 3: you have a yard, it's the muddy pause. I have

928
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 3: a white couch. What the heck am I going to do?

929
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 3: Doctor Wes is still staying with me. It's been so

930
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 3: nice to hear your voice on the air with me,

931
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 3: Doctor Wes.

932
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 5: I know it's been a number of weeks since I've

933
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 5: been with you. I've definitely missed it, so glad to

934
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 5: be back.

935
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 3: Are you coming back into the studio with me on Saturday?

936
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 4: I will, okay, I will, yes, for sure.

937
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 2: Good.

938
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 3: So we were talking about the power of positive thinking

939
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:59,919
Speaker 3: and how you can actually mold your brain into five

940
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 3: hearing up. The neuroplasty in the is it in the

941
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 3: front part of your brain, Doctor Wes.

942
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 5: The the preper quartet is the front part of your

943
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 5: brain that helps you too. That's the executive functioning part

944
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 5: of the brain. Helps you to regulate your emotions. And

945
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 5: so I would say that's really what I'm working with

946
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 5: when I'm helping people get it regulate thoughts and emotions.

947
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, And when she said the neuroplasty at twenty two,

948
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 3: obviously we're talking about Eileen Goo, who's the Olympic skier

949
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 3: that you know one three two gold medals and a

950
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 3: silver in the Winter Olympics. She had this amazing interview

951
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 3: on you know how she basically can do it all.

952
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 3: She's a genius at Stanford, she's a model, she's an

953
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 3: Olympic gold medal at the Winter Olympics and doing things

954
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 3: on skis that nobody else has ever done in her life.

955
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 3: Twenty two years old, and she's got this amazing attitude

956
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 3: of how she feels like she can do anything. And

957
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 3: one of the things that gets her there we talked

958
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 3: about was journaling and then looking at the data of

959
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 3: her journal and deciding what is going to fire her

960
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 3: up in her neuroplasty more and going with that, did

961
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 3: I describe that well?

962
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 4: So?

963
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, So she's trying to determine what is going to

964
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 5: help her create that new neuropathally in her brain that

965
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 5: will then help her to live out the life she wants. Yes,

966
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 5: live out the thoughts that she wants to have, the

967
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 5: beliefs about herself, the emotions that she wants to have.

968
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 4: Yes, So it is about intentional living.

969
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 3: Well and tied into this new study that we were

970
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 3: discussing how positive people. The study says or optimistic people,

971
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,919
Speaker 3: those that think good things that will happen, are less

972
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 3: likely to suffer from chronic disease and or die prematurely

973
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 3: by eleven to fifteen percent. That's that's a pretty big deal.

974
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 3: So we were talking about some of the ways that

975
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 3: you can bring more positivity and more optimism because nobody

976
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 3: else can do this for you. You have to decide

977
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 3: how you view your life. I always talk about you

978
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 3: are the producer, director, writer, and star of your show,

979
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 3: and you choose whether it's going to be a horror

980
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 3: flick basically or a rom com or a rocky movie,

981
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 3: an inspirational you know, you know, rags to riches kind

982
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 3: of a story, and it can be anything you want,

983
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 3: and you can change the script any time you want

984
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 3: because you are the writer, director, producer, and actor. So

985
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 3: the many ways that we talked about adding positivity your life,

986
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 3: journaling doctor Wes, and can you mention what you do

987
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 3: and looking at your thoughts one more time?

988
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 5: So I'm wanting to test out my thinking. So i

989
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 5: want to make sure that I'm examining what is the

990
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 5: evidence for this thought that I'm having, and what is

991
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 5: the evidence against the thought I'm having, and what percentage

992
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 5: of truth is that thought? And then I'm wanting to

993
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 5: challenge it. If it's not if it's not leaning towards

994
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 5: the truth, I'm going to challenge that. If it is

995
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 5: leaning towards the truth, then I'm going to say to myself, Okay,

996
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 5: this may be true, but what is my intention? What

997
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 5: do I want to do regarding this thought? And it

998
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 5: might be that you don't agree with it and you

999
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 5: want to change it, right, So yeah, so that's what

1000
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 5: I'm doing. It's really about metacognition, which is looking at

1001
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 5: which is really looking at the it's the process of

1002
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 5: the awareness of and control over your own thinking processes.

1003
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 5: So it's our ability to step back and observe ourselves.

1004
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 5: We're noticing how we're thinking.

1005
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 3: That's really important because we know that if you leave

1006
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 3: your thoughts unchecked, eighty to ninety percent of our thoughts

1007
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 3: are negative, repetitive, and useless. So if you're just following

1008
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 3: thoughts that you have on a daily basis, eighty to

1009
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 3: ninety percent are negative, repetitive, and useless. That's a good

1010
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 3: portion of your daily thoughts that are going to bring

1011
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 3: you down.

1012
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 7: Right.

1013
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 3: It's like somebody walking with you like you, like you're

1014
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 3: your best friend. It's the chat. It's the mind chatter.

1015
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 3: It's the little me, the little woman in my head

1016
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 3: that is saying all these negative things. Now you can

1017
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 3: change that. That's what you're saying. Ask your thoughts if

1018
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 3: this is real. So if I'm thinking, if I'm thinking

1019
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 3: I wake up tomorrow morning and I'm thinking, you know,

1020
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 3: today's going to be a horrible day because I don't

1021
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 3: have anything planned and nobody loves me, is that actually real?

1022
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 2: Probably not?

1023
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 4: So those are no those are feelings based on thoughts,

1024
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 4: is what I would say. And our brain will.

1025
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 5: It's a distortion to if we feel like it's true,

1026
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 5: then we think it's true. And that's not entirely the case. Right,

1027
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 5: Feelings are not always facts. Yes, feelings are not always vacs.

1028
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 3: Right, You just because you feel a certain way doesn't

1029
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 3: mean that your day has to go in that direction.

1030
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 3: You can literally say correct, I'm not I'm gonna do

1031
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 3: what I can to boost my mood and become optimist,

1032
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 3: optimistic and positive. And that's where I'll lead with because

1033
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 3: in the in the survey, prayer and meditation, gratitude journal

1034
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 3: is a big thing.

1035
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 2: Doctor West just talked about.

1036
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 3: Checking in with your thoughts and then actually questioning whether

1037
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 3: they're true or whether they're not, and if they are true,

1038
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 3: check your intention. But also stop complaining about things. Stop

1039
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:02,439
Speaker 3: you might even not know that you complain about it.

1040
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 2: Right.

1041
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 3: Add music into your life, add light music, classical or meditation,

1042
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 3: or you know, anything that's going to uplift your energy.

1043
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 3: Another one is remove negative people in your life. We

1044
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 3: just talked about that as well. That's a hard one,

1045
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 3: but it's important to do if someone's bringing you down

1046
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 3: all the time. And the last one is I'll watch

1047
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 3: watch uplifting shows and inspiring or funny shows. I am

1048
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 3: somebody that watches crime shows and I'm telling you.

1049
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 2: That does affect my mood.

1050
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 3: It affects my mood and I fall asleep to them.

1051
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 3: And I don't know what that is? Doctor West?

1052
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 2: What is it? And a lot of women do it?

1053
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 2: A lot of my friends do it? What is it?

1054
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 3: And why do we fall asleep to crime shows that

1055
01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 3: are scaring us?

1056
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: Wow?

1057
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 5: That's a we need to do some furious of therapy

1058
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 5: sessions there.

1059
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 2: Donald, I know, it's kind of scary. What do you

1060
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 2: think about it?

1061
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 3: I mean, seriously, it is why And there was a

1062
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 3: there was a whole commentary about why women fall asleep

1063
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 3: to forensic files. The guy's monotone voice, it's it's kind

1064
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 3: of a you know, it's it's it's something you have

1065
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 3: to try and figure out.

1066
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 2: But you've never heard that before, doctor Wes.

1067
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 4: No, I don't think I have. Actually, So you're educating

1068
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,600
Speaker 4: me tonight on something. So and what is it? What

1069
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 4: is it?

1070
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 1: Law order?

1071
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 4: For you? You know law and order? Yeah, of course, yeah.

1072
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 3: And you know, Olivia Benson is such a strong character.

1073
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 3: I mean she can she catches the bad guys and stuff.

1074
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 3: But I think it's just something about these crime shows

1075
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,719
Speaker 3: that you know put me to sleep.

1076
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. I really don't I

1077
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:00,680
Speaker 2: need to, like I do.

1078
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 3: I think I need to sit on your couch for

1079
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 3: a second and examine those But the idea to stay

1080
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 3: positive your life is such a big deal.

1081
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 2: This is not a small thing.

1082
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 3: This is something that we can work on individually, and

1083
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 3: we can do it immediately. And went right before we

1084
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 3: left for break, I talked about you know, the crazy,

1085
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:32,400
Speaker 3: the crazy world of dating and if there isn't uh,

1086
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 3: And I didn't tell you about that. We were going

1087
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 3: to talk about it because I really want to get

1088
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 3: your opinion on this. Uh, because dating in twenty twenty

1089
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 3: six is hard. You don't meet people the way that

1090
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 3: we used to meet people. It's all dating apps, it's

1091
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:51,600
Speaker 3: you know, social media and things like that. We communicate

1092
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 3: in such a different way in this country right now,

1093
01:09:56,160 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 3: or in this world even it's all technology. But there's

1094
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 3: a new thing that is it's called ghost lighters. And

1095
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 3: you know how ghosting is like when they drop all

1096
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 3: communication and they ghost you, and then gas lighting is

1097
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 3: when they try and make you think you're crazy.

1098
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 4: Right.

1099
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 3: This is the combination of the two. So ghost lighting,

1100
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 3: which is a new thing. So the ghost lighters drop

1101
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 3: all communication, they don't tell you why, they don't reach

1102
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 3: out at all for long periods of time, but then

1103
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:43,639
Speaker 3: they reappear in your life, either through texting or they'll

1104
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 3: comment on your social media posts or things like that

1105
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 3: as if nothing happened. And then on top of that,

1106
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 3: they'll often try and gaslight the person they were dating

1107
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:59,719
Speaker 3: into believing there was no ghosting in the first place.

1108
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 3: So ghosting to the avoidance and ghost lighting as the

1109
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 3: distortion by manipulating the facts so you doubt your own reality.

1110
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 2: Is this is a thing right now?

1111
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1112
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, So it might be something like partner A says,

1113
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 5: I was worried when you disappeared.

1114
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 4: I was worried about that, right.

1115
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 5: And then partner B, if I'm getting this right, would

1116
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 5: say something like I didn't disappear.

1117
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 3: You're being dramatic, Yes, exactly, exactly?

1118
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:32,840
Speaker 4: Is okay?

1119
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 2: I thought you were busy. You didn't reach out to me.

1120
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 3: I thought you were busy, and like, you know, it's

1121
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 3: just nice to connect again, right.

1122
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,719
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah? What would the behavior?

1123
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 5: It invalidates both the event that occurred and the emotional

1124
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:53,760
Speaker 5: process the person's feeling. That's what it's invalidating both of those.

1125
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 5: So it's like, I didn't disappear. That's invalidating the event.

1126
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 5: So that's the person. That's the person's perception of what well,

1127
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 5: or the facts in this case of what happened. They'll actually,

1128
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:09,600
Speaker 5: you did disappear, but I'm a validating that I didn't disappear,

1129
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:14,719
Speaker 5: and then in validating the emotional response of the partner

1130
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:18,559
Speaker 5: being worried by the other partner saying you're being dramatic. Yeah,

1131
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 5: So that's how it's combining the two.

1132
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:24,439
Speaker 3: So what would you suggest if somebody was, you know,

1133
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 3: sitting in your office and they told you that they

1134
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 3: were doing this to this person, they acknowledged that, they left,

1135
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 3: and then they came back and you said, well, that

1136
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:38,679
Speaker 3: sounds like this ghost lighting thing. What would you say

1137
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 3: to this person that's doing this to this they were

1138
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 3: in a relationship, obviously, what would you tell that person

1139
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 3: and how to handle you? Would you be honest with

1140
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,519
Speaker 3: let's just say it's a guy. Would you be honest

1141
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,799
Speaker 3: with your client and tell him that you know, he's

1142
01:12:57,160 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 3: he's manipulating somebody, he's maybe he can't see it.

1143
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 2: How would you handle that?

1144
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 4: Sure?

1145
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,080
Speaker 5: So I would be very curious about this part of

1146
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:10,400
Speaker 5: the client that is causing them to act in this way.

1147
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 5: So there's a part of you that suddenly wants to

1148
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 5: cut off communication. You might want to ignore the messages,

1149
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 5: you want to avoid conflict, You just want to you

1150
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:20,799
Speaker 5: want to withdraw. So I want to know what's happening

1151
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 5: underneath that part of you. What is their fear, is

1152
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 5: their anxiety? What is the underlying emotion that you can't

1153
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 5: because it's almost like they are avoiding the experience of

1154
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 5: just being upfront and direct. So I would also then

1155
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 5: want to know why you know about this other part

1156
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 5: of them that wants to invalidate reality and deny that

1157
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,640
Speaker 5: reality is existing and just step away. All of it

1158
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 5: is avoidant behavior. It's avoidant behavior, and then it's controlling behavior,

1159
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:53,040
Speaker 5: right because they want to control the reality of the situation,

1160
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 5: which to me indicates that there's there there could be

1161
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 5: a fear response going on, or there could there's definitely

1162
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:04,320
Speaker 5: some insecure's. It's an inferiority. So I would, yeah, I would, absolutely,

1163
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 5: I would. I would confront in a way though that

1164
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 5: I say that this is a part of you, and

1165
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 5: I'm always holding out connecting back to hope and optimism. Yea,

1166
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 5: that there's another part that doesn't want to, like, doesn't

1167
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 5: want to continue in this behavior. If they do, and

1168
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 5: I don't see that, hope, that's a whole other story,

1169
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 5: right of why do you.

1170
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 4: Enjoy just, you know, treating people in this way? And

1171
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 4: that's a whole other situation.

1172
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 5: So but I'm going to start with the belief that

1173
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:36,639
Speaker 5: my clients maybe just don't realize, they don't understand they're

1174
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:40,360
Speaker 5: doing this, maybe from an automatic response out of at

1175
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 5: an avoidant personality or an avoidant attachment style, and.

1176
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,560
Speaker 4: We want to work on correcting it. That's where I

1177
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 4: would start.

1178
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:55,520
Speaker 3: I think ghosting somebody, I mean, I think I understand

1179
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 3: that a little bit, right you You you've dated a

1180
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 3: little bit and you've talked, and you're really not feeling it.

1181
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I think definitely you should. There

1182
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:09,679
Speaker 3: should be a conversation. Hey, I'm not feeling this. I'm

1183
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 3: gonna take a little bit of space. I'm gonna back

1184
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:14,640
Speaker 3: up a little bit, but I'll call you, you know,

1185
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 3: just give me a week or so to figure it out.

1186
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,080
Speaker 2: Right, I have a friend who's going through this right now.

1187
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 3: So the lighting part like the gas lighting part is

1188
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 3: this is the scarier one because what if what if

1189
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:35,880
Speaker 3: he just says, listen, I like you. I mean, let's

1190
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 3: let's just say he's thinking in his mind, because I

1191
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 3: think this is what's happening in in the scenario with

1192
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,879
Speaker 3: the guy in your office, right, I think what's happening

1193
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:48,719
Speaker 3: is he likes this girl, but he sees somebody else

1194
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 3: that he's interested in, and maybe more so so he

1195
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:57,800
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily want to have the conversation and and and

1196
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 3: end it with the one that he's been hanging out

1197
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 3: with until he finds out whether this new girl is.

1198
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 2: Good and then.

1199
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:12,719
Speaker 3: If and then if he decides that, hey, she wasn't

1200
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 3: all that, that's when he goes back into the DMS

1201
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:19,439
Speaker 3: and the texting and the social media stuff and he's

1202
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:22,599
Speaker 3: and he says, hey, how's it going. I even talked

1203
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 3: to you in a while, And that's where the ghost

1204
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 3: lighting comes in. Does that seem like a scenario that

1205
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 3: makes sense?

1206
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:34,680
Speaker 5: Sure, it makes sense, But I and I'm wondering, is

1207
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:37,640
Speaker 5: this guy have a fear of being alone? Does this

1208
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 5: guy have a fear of because if he absolutely has

1209
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 5: to have somebody in his life and he needs to

1210
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 5: make sure he's got somebody else to replace the other

1211
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 5: person with. Why can't he just be with one person

1212
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:53,440
Speaker 5: and risk that that relationship may not work out, and

1213
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 5: and just be alone if it doesn't work out.

1214
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:56,879
Speaker 4: Why does he have to have someone else.

1215
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 1: On the line.

1216
01:16:57,680 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 2: It's interesting.

1217
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:01,240
Speaker 4: I don't know that. Maybe, yeah, we have.

1218
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 2: So many choices, doctor Wes.

1219
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 3: We're talking to doctor Wes, licensed marriage family therapist, a

1220
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:10,480
Speaker 3: regular guest on the show, my co host.

1221
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 2: And many times he just hasn't been on.

1222
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 3: This Okay, So I mean, is it is it just

1223
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 3: that we have so many options that hey, you have

1224
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 3: found a good person and they like you too, but

1225
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 3: then there's this other girl and the grass is always greener.

1226
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,640
Speaker 3: That's what I think might happen to a lot of

1227
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:32,559
Speaker 3: these guys. I mean, I don't I agree.

1228
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think that there's.

1229
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:41,200
Speaker 3: There's necessarily something hugely wrong with this person. I just

1230
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 3: think he's trying to weigh all his options. Is that

1231
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:47,440
Speaker 3: wrong for him to do that? Or is it?

1232
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 2: Is it real?

1233
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 3: I mean, should he be honest and say, look, I'm

1234
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 3: I like you, but I'm also going to date other people.

1235
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,680
Speaker 3: You run the risk of like that person saying Nope, no.

1236
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:03,639
Speaker 5: Way, and that that has to be okay. There has

1237
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 5: to be that that's okay for somebody else to say no,

1238
01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:08,920
Speaker 5: I'm not okay with that. So yes, you always need

1239
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 5: to be upfront and honest.

1240
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:11,840
Speaker 4: I think I don't. I don't.

1241
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:15,639
Speaker 5: I tell my clients let's don't play the manipulative games.

1242
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 5: It's just go to hurt people. Hurt people. It's just

1243
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 5: going to perpetuate a cycle of hurting people. And so

1244
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 5: you've got to be able to be strong enough to

1245
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:27,280
Speaker 5: stand on your own two feet and emotionally have the

1246
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 5: strength to be able to say I want to be

1247
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 5: able to get other people, and if you lose some

1248
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 5: then that's fine, you know, but if a person doesn't

1249
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 5: have that emotional strength and that that self concept, which

1250
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 5: we could talk about never I won't even go into

1251
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 5: some of those masks people wear, but but if.

1252
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 3: They do want to go into that, I do want

1253
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 3: to go into that. If you stay for the next segment,

1254
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 3: because that is so interesting when you talk about the

1255
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:58,800
Speaker 3: masks people wear, I mean, I do want to go

1256
01:18:58,920 --> 01:18:59,439
Speaker 3: into that.

1257
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:02,080
Speaker 2: Dot Wes, let me ask you this real quick.

1258
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:05,800
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean uh, and and please stay for

1259
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 3: the next segment to go into masks because now that

1260
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 3: we're talking about it, because I do find that extremely interesting.

1261
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 3: The if if you're dating, right, do you how much

1262
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 3: do you disclose to a person that you're dating and

1263
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 3: how long Let's say you're just dating someone for a

1264
01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 3: month or two, how much should you disclose to that

1265
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:33,799
Speaker 3: person about who the other people are that you're dating.

1266
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:39,679
Speaker 3: Because dating just kind of means you're checking out people, right,

1267
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:43,080
Speaker 3: You're checking out the situation. So is there a certain

1268
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 3: timeline you would suggest to somebody who's dating to start

1269
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:51,680
Speaker 3: that conversation to be honest and say, hey, I I'm

1270
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:52,679
Speaker 3: dating other people.

1271
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:55,720
Speaker 2: I do like you. I'm just playing the field a

1272
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 2: little bit.

1273
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 5: I look at it. So the value of the values

1274
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 5: that I would recommend to my clients would be consent,

1275
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:07,720
Speaker 5: non exploitation.

1276
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 4: All right, So that's consent.

1277
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:13,040
Speaker 5: Let's break that down to both partners understand that we

1278
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 5: are not in a committed relationship, that we both have

1279
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:20,559
Speaker 5: the ability to date other people, Okay, and then that

1280
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 5: goes into the non exploitation. I don't want to exploit

1281
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 5: someone for my own benefits, and so I want to

1282
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:29,840
Speaker 5: be I want to be honest. I want to have

1283
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:32,240
Speaker 5: and then a relationship's got to be built on mutual

1284
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 5: pleasure and shared values.

1285
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 4: Right, So this is what grown up.

1286
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 3: This one sounds like grown ups sound like real honest conversations.

1287
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:45,599
Speaker 3: Let's get some brown duries here, right, Let's get some

1288
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 3: clear what did you call them?

1289
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:48,040
Speaker 2: Oh?

1290
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 3: Shoot, we got to run. We need to continue this conversation.

1291
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:54,479
Speaker 3: Stay on one more break. Doctor West is going to

1292
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 3: come back. We're going to finish this conversation because it's

1293
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 3: getting really good. And then he is going to talk

1294
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,639
Speaker 3: about the masks that people wear.

1295
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:02,800
Speaker 2: It is crazy.

1296
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:05,840
Speaker 3: And maybe if we have time, we will go into

1297
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 3: the number one predictor of if a couple, a couple

1298
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 3: will stay together. We're going to talk about that. It's

1299
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 3: Dona Deewood, Doctor West with me on seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati.

1300
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 3: This is why people don't do it? And is it

1301
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:22,720
Speaker 3: a fair thing to say? Because hey, you should just

1302
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:27,240
Speaker 3: know we're dating. I never told you specifically that we

1303
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,720
Speaker 3: are monogamous, right, And Jeff, we're gonna get to you

1304
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 3: in a second.

1305
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:36,519
Speaker 2: But if is it is that too early? If?

1306
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:41,559
Speaker 3: I guess it would depend on how how the conversations go.

1307
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 3: Like she feels there's there's solo and that, and that

1308
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 3: she's not wanting to date anyone, then I think he

1309
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 3: really should be upfront. But I don't know if they

1310
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:59,000
Speaker 3: have to so reveal everything, even in a month's time,

1311
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 3: two months time. Absolutely, in a month's time, you're saying that, hey, listen,

1312
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:07,680
Speaker 3: let her know that you're not being exclusive.

1313
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:12,559
Speaker 5: Sure, what's the harm in that unless you're wanting unless

1314
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:16,040
Speaker 5: you're wanting to play this game of keeping multiple people

1315
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 5: on the line, right, I don't think there's any harm

1316
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:19,960
Speaker 5: in being honest.

1317
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 4: I think honesty is the best policy.

1318
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:26,360
Speaker 5: Right, So, unless someone wants to play this, play this

1319
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,160
Speaker 5: dating game, which I don't think is very helpful, it's

1320
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 5: not helpful, right, I think it can be hurtful for people.

1321
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 3: The ghost lighting thing is when they ghost you and

1322
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:40,440
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden they come back into your DMS,

1323
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:44,160
Speaker 3: or they message you on social media or they text you.

1324
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 3: And what the issue is is that they pretend that

1325
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 3: the ghosting didn't even happen, or it was I was

1326
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:52,920
Speaker 3: trying to get a hold of you and you didn't

1327
01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 3: get a hold of me. And that usually means and

1328
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:57,800
Speaker 3: this is where we got into the dating thing, It

1329
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:05,600
Speaker 3: usually means that somebody left the relationship for another pursuant

1330
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 3: of another relationship, but that probably didn't work out, so

1331
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 3: they go back to the other girl.

1332
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 2: Now that is a horrible thing.

1333
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:17,599
Speaker 3: Doctor Wes. Hang on one second. I'm gonna get to Jeff.

1334
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:21,600
Speaker 3: Hold on one second, Hey, Jeff, how's it going. You

1335
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 3: got something on ghost lighting?

1336
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:25,320
Speaker 5: I want to talk.

1337
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:27,719
Speaker 4: About ghost lighting, but I do have another relationship question.

1338
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 4: Can we get to that world briefly?

1339
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:31,599
Speaker 2: Yes? Go ahead, Doctor West. Can here.

1340
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 5: I'm in my late twenties and I've always thought my

1341
01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 5: cousin attractive.

1342
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:39,200
Speaker 4: I'm want you to think about first cousins.

1343
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,839
Speaker 2: Dating, first cousin's dating.

1344
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we.

1345
01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:44,520
Speaker 5: Found each other attractive.

1346
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, Doctor West. Can you hear that? Doctor West?

1347
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:53,559
Speaker 2: Can you hear that? What do you think about?

1348
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 3: Do I need to ask this question on first cousins dating?

1349
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 5: I think that that could be a very complicated relationship

1350
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:06,920
Speaker 5: for sure, because of the family, you know, obviously family dynamics,

1351
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:13,920
Speaker 5: and and and obviously the overlapping you know, uh of

1352
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:18,280
Speaker 5: that of many factors of overlap, right, So I would

1353
01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:20,880
Speaker 5: have to explore that further with the client and figure

1354
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:22,240
Speaker 5: out the dynamics there.

1355
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 4: What do you think Donna.

1356
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:29,680
Speaker 3: I would absolutely say no. I would absolutely hang on

1357
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:32,439
Speaker 3: doctor West. So Jeff, doctor Wes and I, I don't

1358
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:34,639
Speaker 3: know if you're we both don't think that's a good

1359
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 3: idea for you.

1360
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 4: Well, well you you really didn't give your reading. I

1361
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 4: heard it, but you didn't really give your reading.

1362
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 3: Well, I just you know, family member, all right, I

1363
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 3: knew it. I can tell you right now. I knew

1364
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 3: that's where that was going. And I should hung up

1365
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 3: by Jeff.

1366
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 2: That's not cool. And karma is a thing.

1367
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 4: Just know that.

1368
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I knew that was kind of coming. But yeah, cousins, no.

1369
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 5: Thanks, no, no, no, no, I think that that's a

1370
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:07,680
Speaker 5: you know, here's the thing in therapy, I'm always going

1371
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:12,160
Speaker 5: to explore with the clients why they want to go somewhere, right,

1372
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:14,920
Speaker 5: And so for me, there would be a there would

1373
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 5: be if this was a serious call, which it wasn't obviously,

1374
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:22,880
Speaker 5: but you know, if it was a serious call, then

1375
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 5: I would be concerned about why is there this attraction

1376
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:30,320
Speaker 5: and what is that what are the dynamics at play?

1377
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:31,320
Speaker 4: And then I would.

1378
01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:33,680
Speaker 5: Certainly absolutely let the client know that I do not

1379
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:35,200
Speaker 5: think it's in their best interests.

1380
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:38,600
Speaker 4: So, yeah, at that case, because of because.

1381
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 5: Of the risk of the additional harm because of the

1382
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:48,320
Speaker 5: overlapping biological, psychological, environmental type type issues that works there.

1383
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:51,360
Speaker 3: Well, Jeff wasn't a serious caller, and we can move on.

1384
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,920
Speaker 3: But and you know what, that's a good thing for intuition.

1385
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 3: I will just say because when I went back to him,

1386
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:00,160
Speaker 3: I knew I was going to have to hit that

1387
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:00,920
Speaker 3: dumb button.

1388
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:03,560
Speaker 2: I knew that.

1389
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 3: That was what was going to have And I almost

1390
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 3: did not go back to him because I was I

1391
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:13,799
Speaker 3: could feel that that guy was going to say something

1392
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:19,040
Speaker 3: extremely inappropriate, which he did. So all right, so back

1393
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 3: to the ghost lighting, and let's talk about the masks.

1394
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:26,559
Speaker 3: I really think that that is a very interesting topic

1395
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:30,040
Speaker 3: and when you go into it, So let's talk about

1396
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:33,760
Speaker 3: the masks we wear and what are some of the

1397
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 3: masks and why do we wear them?

1398
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:40,479
Speaker 5: Sure, some of the masks that you wear might be

1399
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:45,439
Speaker 5: the strong one, the people pleaser, the perfectionists. You might

1400
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:49,200
Speaker 5: be a rebel. You might be the clown. You know

1401
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:54,480
Speaker 5: it's the humor mask. You might be the caretaker, the intellectual.

1402
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 5: You might be the dominator. That may be a mask

1403
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:01,599
Speaker 5: you wear, or the victim.

1404
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:03,200
Speaker 4: Or the lone wolf. Those are just.

1405
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:07,280
Speaker 5: About ten of those masks that that I'm you know.

1406
01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 4: Kind of always helping clients look through.

1407
01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 5: And why we wear them because let's just pick one.

1408
01:27:15,439 --> 01:27:21,160
Speaker 5: So the strong one so looks like somebody that's always composed.

1409
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:23,680
Speaker 4: They never ask for help. Why do they wear it?

1410
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 5: Because they're hiding fear, vulnerability, and emotional pain. Their core

1411
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:32,840
Speaker 5: belief is if I show weakness, I will lose respect

1412
01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:33,840
Speaker 5: or love.

1413
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 4: So their fear is that.

1414
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 5: If they show weakness, they're going to lose respect or love.

1415
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:41,320
Speaker 4: You know.

1416
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:44,920
Speaker 5: Another one that I see a lot of is the

1417
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 5: dominator in relationships, the alpha that looks like somebody who's assertive, attimidating,

1418
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 5: and controlling in the relationship. What it's hiding is there insecurity,

1419
01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 5: their fear of powerlessness, and their belief is if I'm

1420
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:06,320
Speaker 5: in control, I can't be hurt. That's why I always

1421
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 5: got to be in control. And these guys are doing

1422
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:10,559
Speaker 5: the gas lighting and the ghost lighting and all of that.

1423
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:13,960
Speaker 4: Or it could be the women. It could be no

1424
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:16,800
Speaker 4: matter what the gender is, whoever is engaging in that

1425
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:20,120
Speaker 4: behavior could be because they have that core belief if

1426
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 4: I'm in control, I can't be hurt, so I can't

1427
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 4: lose control. Right, So, so because of that insecurity, where do.

1428
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:32,680
Speaker 2: We pick up these masks? Is it from childhood?

1429
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 3: Because I, you know, even the clown, I can look

1430
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:37,840
Speaker 3: at when you were saying some of these things, I

1431
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:40,240
Speaker 3: can see some of myself in them, some of my

1432
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 3: family members in them. Is it always like a security blanket?

1433
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:50,439
Speaker 3: Is it always something that helps us to feel safe

1434
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 3: with the masks on?

1435
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is. It is a way to feel safe,

1436
01:28:56,200 --> 01:28:59,559
Speaker 5: for sure. It's a false a fault of false self

1437
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:02,840
Speaker 5: because it's a way that we can protect.

1438
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:07,400
Speaker 4: Protect ourselves from these core beliefs that we have.

1439
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:11,280
Speaker 5: Another the lone wolf's core belief, if I don't need anyone,

1440
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:12,760
Speaker 5: no one can leave me.

1441
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,200
Speaker 4: If I don't need anyone, no one can leave me.

1442
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:19,720
Speaker 5: So if you're really independent, you're distant in a relationship,

1443
01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 5: you have a fear of intimacy, you have a fear

1444
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:25,200
Speaker 5: of abandonment. And if I don't need anyone, no one

1445
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:27,200
Speaker 5: can leave me. So you can see how the mask

1446
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:30,599
Speaker 5: is a false self. And it's actually what's interesting, Donna,

1447
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:33,680
Speaker 5: is that it's the mask is usually the very opposite

1448
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:37,600
Speaker 5: of what somebody really wants and beliefs. So because the

1449
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,479
Speaker 5: lone wolf has a fear of intimacy and a fear

1450
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:44,400
Speaker 5: of abandonment. But they really want the intimacy, They really

1451
01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:47,600
Speaker 5: want that, but they're trying to protect themselves. If I

1452
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:51,000
Speaker 5: don't need anyone, no one can leave me. But yet

1453
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 5: underneath it, underneath that mask, they need someone, They want someone, right, So.

1454
01:29:56,840 --> 01:29:59,480
Speaker 2: It's it's almost self sabotage.

1455
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 3: Wear these masks so that so that we don't get hurt,

1456
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:06,760
Speaker 3: but we also don't get what we want.

1457
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:11,280
Speaker 4: Right, That's exactly right. It does sabotage us.

1458
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 3: So why do we How can we get rid of them?

1459
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:16,840
Speaker 3: And I do want you to talk about the clown mask?

1460
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:19,160
Speaker 3: What does the clown mask stand for?

1461
01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:24,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's somebody who's really funny, sarcastic, and entertaining.

1462
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:26,759
Speaker 4: And the thing I'm going to say.

1463
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:30,040
Speaker 5: About these personalities, it's not always this is not at

1464
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:32,479
Speaker 5: all or nothing right, but you know this is this

1465
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 5: is contextual. So, but it is possible that if someone

1466
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 5: relies overly relies on being funny, sarcastic, entertaining, they could

1467
01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:47,280
Speaker 5: be had hiding sadness, loneliness, and insecurity. The core belief

1468
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:51,240
Speaker 5: that the clown carries is if I make people laugh,

1469
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 5: they won't see my pain.

1470
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:56,560
Speaker 4: And what's interesting to me is a lot of comedians

1471
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 4: are really self definacating. Yes, they're really right.

1472
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:03,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, And so if I make people laugh, they won't

1473
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:04,559
Speaker 5: see my pain.

1474
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:06,120
Speaker 2: It's a diversion.

1475
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:07,000
Speaker 4: They don't want you to.

1476
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:14,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, who comes to mind, you know, John Candy, Chris Farley,

1477
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:18,320
Speaker 3: those guys that that were super super funny, and they

1478
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:22,080
Speaker 3: were they were almost like Jerry Lewis where they would

1479
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:26,600
Speaker 3: do a lot of physical comedy and trip over themselves.

1480
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:30,519
Speaker 3: And even chevy Chase. I just watched the The Chevy Chase.

1481
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 3: I talked about it last week on air, The Chevy

1482
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 3: Chase documentary.

1483
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:35,799
Speaker 2: Have you seen that Doctor West?

1484
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:41,320
Speaker 3: That Oh I would be curious to see the diagnosis

1485
01:31:41,360 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 3: on him they I mean it was it was really

1486
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 3: hard to watch chevy Chase has you know he he

1487
01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:51,840
Speaker 3: did the slapstick, the physical Jerry Lewis comedy. I didn't

1488
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 3: know how much he did that on stage. But you know,

1489
01:31:56,680 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 3: he he's he's self entitled. He's self described himself within

1490
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:04,160
Speaker 3: the first I don't know five minutes of the documentary

1491
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:07,200
Speaker 3: that he was an angry boy. He never grew up

1492
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:10,799
Speaker 3: any angry, so you know, he kind of self described

1493
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 3: uh uh, you know, described what type of behavior he has.

1494
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:19,840
Speaker 2: And that's what you saw in the entire documentary.

1495
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 3: So with the clown and these masks that that we

1496
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:30,280
Speaker 3: wear to protect ourselves and self sabotage, because you know,

1497
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 3: we really want the opposite of what we're pretending to be.

1498
01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:37,960
Speaker 2: How do we how do we set the mask?

1499
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:41,800
Speaker 3: I know they're not always on, but like, how do

1500
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:44,720
Speaker 3: we stop picking those masks up out of you know,

1501
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:49,519
Speaker 3: from habit or hurt or however, we really.

1502
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 5: Got to target that core belief, so we I would

1503
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:56,599
Speaker 5: you really got to figure out why Okay, I would

1504
01:32:56,600 --> 01:33:02,160
Speaker 5: be asking my clients to ask their mask, Okay, all right, mask,

1505
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:06,000
Speaker 5: and it's like I'm personifying this mask. I'm actually the

1506
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:08,280
Speaker 5: mask is becoming its own entropy, right and I'm going

1507
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:11,040
Speaker 5: to say, why are you showing up right now?

1508
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 4: What are you afraid? Is going to happen if I

1509
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 4: don't put this mask on?

1510
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:20,000
Speaker 5: And the core belief might say something like, well, if

1511
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:24,800
Speaker 5: you're flawed like a perfectionist. If I'm flawless, no one

1512
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:26,200
Speaker 5: can criticize.

1513
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:26,320
Speaker 4: Or abandon me.

1514
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:30,720
Speaker 5: So if I wear this mask of perfectionism, then I

1515
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:35,479
Speaker 5: can be completely sure that I won't be criticized or abandoned. Okay,

1516
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:38,280
Speaker 5: so how do we fix it. We help increase your

1517
01:33:38,400 --> 01:33:43,840
Speaker 5: tolerance of being criticized, or we increase your ability to

1518
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 5: manage emotions if you felt abandoned, right, We've got to

1519
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 5: increase the ability to tolerate difficult emotions.

1520
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,200
Speaker 4: That's what we have to do. And we have to

1521
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:58,559
Speaker 4: help people to change their beliefs.

1522
01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:02,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is that is heartbreaking because I know quite

1523
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 3: a few people that consider themselves perfectionists.

1524
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:10,280
Speaker 2: And I always say, there's no such thing.

1525
01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:15,800
Speaker 3: You can't reach for something that doesn't exist. So the

1526
01:34:16,600 --> 01:34:20,960
Speaker 3: idea of a perfection wearing the mask of a perfectionist

1527
01:34:21,080 --> 01:34:25,200
Speaker 3: would be I have to be perfect otherwise I'll be criticized.

1528
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, they're hiding shame, fear of failure, feelings of inadequacy,

1529
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:33,640
Speaker 5: and they're really afraid of being criticized or abandoned. But

1530
01:34:34,200 --> 01:34:37,559
Speaker 5: the thing about it is is we can help them,

1531
01:34:37,720 --> 01:34:43,640
Speaker 5: number one, to develop resiliency of what happens if I'm criticized,

1532
01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:45,720
Speaker 5: or what happens if somebody goes to me and it

1533
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:46,760
Speaker 5: totally abandons me.

1534
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:49,920
Speaker 4: It's you know, it's not all or nothing.

1535
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:53,879
Speaker 5: There's a lot of cognitive distortions at play that create

1536
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:54,639
Speaker 5: those fears.

1537
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:55,720
Speaker 4: So that's what I'm doing.

1538
01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:58,880
Speaker 5: I'm helping people identify the core belief which causes you

1539
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 5: to put on that mask, and then I'm helping them

1540
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:02,800
Speaker 5: to tweak.

1541
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:05,479
Speaker 4: Those beliefs and to heal.

1542
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:08,880
Speaker 5: In many cases, we have to heal past events that

1543
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:13,120
Speaker 5: have occurred, past traumas. Maybe there's times they have been

1544
01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:17,080
Speaker 5: criticized and they have been abandoned. If they are perfectionists,

1545
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 5: so then I'm going to have to help heal those

1546
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:24,759
Speaker 5: instances and then help almost retrain the core self to trust.

1547
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:27,720
Speaker 5: I don't need to wear that mask. I can be

1548
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:30,000
Speaker 5: who I am and be okay.

1549
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:36,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, because oftentimes, when you know, in the past, let's

1550
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:40,840
Speaker 3: just say they were criticized, they probably beat themselves up

1551
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:44,840
Speaker 3: so much that they can't take that anymore and they'd

1552
01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 3: rather just wear themselves out and do everything they can

1553
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:54,680
Speaker 3: to not feel that again. But the bottom line is

1554
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:59,599
Speaker 3: when you confront confront that stuff, even you know years

1555
01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 3: as as an adult later, maybe that happened as a

1556
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:05,120
Speaker 3: child or a kid, or even you know ten years ago,

1557
01:36:05,800 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 3: you're different person now. You'd be able to handle that

1558
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:12,120
Speaker 3: a little bit differently. If you were criticized now, so

1559
01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:15,080
Speaker 3: it's it's really great that you're doing that work because

1560
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 3: the mask.

1561
01:36:15,920 --> 01:36:18,160
Speaker 2: Thing is man.

1562
01:36:18,280 --> 01:36:21,040
Speaker 3: If you can figure out what masks you wear and

1563
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:24,280
Speaker 3: set them down as much as possible, that's that's growing,

1564
01:36:24,560 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 3: that's evolving.

1565
01:36:27,000 --> 01:36:30,599
Speaker 2: Absolutely, all right, we just have just a few more moments.

1566
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:32,880
Speaker 3: I did want to mention only because I mentioned this

1567
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:36,559
Speaker 3: in the te's Doctor Wes. I. You know, I started

1568
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:41,360
Speaker 3: coaching a few clients and I had this couple and

1569
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 3: we're working on repair after an argument. And I know

1570
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:50,360
Speaker 3: this is a big thing for you because the number

1571
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:54,759
Speaker 3: one predictor of a couple if they will stay together,

1572
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:58,559
Speaker 3: is how quickly they repair.

1573
01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:00,759
Speaker 2: After an argument.

1574
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:05,439
Speaker 3: And I found this statistic really interesting and I wanted

1575
01:37:05,479 --> 01:37:07,720
Speaker 3: to see if you agreed with it. If you can

1576
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:12,080
Speaker 3: repair thirty minutes after you have an argument or a fight,

1577
01:37:12,479 --> 01:37:15,160
Speaker 3: you have an eighty percent chance of staying together.

1578
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:17,440
Speaker 2: Would you agree with that statistic?

1579
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:19,760
Speaker 4: Sure? Absolutely.

1580
01:37:19,800 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 5: I think that the caveat would be as long as

1581
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:28,960
Speaker 5: you're both not flood So if you're both flooded and

1582
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:31,960
Speaker 5: you're highly emotional steal, you might need ten to fifteen minutes.

1583
01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:34,519
Speaker 5: But if you come right back after that fifteen minute

1584
01:37:34,520 --> 01:37:37,040
Speaker 5: mark and repair within that first thirty minutes.

1585
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:39,519
Speaker 4: I do agree. We want to button that up as

1586
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:40,400
Speaker 4: soon as possible.

1587
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:44,080
Speaker 3: You've said, you've said, don't wait. I mean, like the

1588
01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 3: longest you said is don't even wait a day. What

1589
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:49,800
Speaker 3: would you say, I mean, thirty minutes is great? What

1590
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:52,960
Speaker 3: would you say would be a good amount of time

1591
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,599
Speaker 3: if you've gotten into an argument and you can see

1592
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:57,920
Speaker 3: your way out of it and you need some space.

1593
01:37:58,240 --> 01:38:02,479
Speaker 3: How long what would be a good time? You know,

1594
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:05,120
Speaker 3: thirty minutes great? You know what would be a good time.

1595
01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:08,479
Speaker 5: Thirty minutes is outstanding, But no more than a couple

1596
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 5: of hours, you know, I think sometimes it may take

1597
01:38:11,280 --> 01:38:14,120
Speaker 5: the brain a little longer to you know the research

1598
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:17,080
Speaker 5: doctor Gotman's research, fifteen to twenty minutes is what he

1599
01:38:17,120 --> 01:38:20,680
Speaker 5: says that your brain needs time to regulate itself, to

1600
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:24,240
Speaker 5: bring the prefrontal cortex, which is the part of your

1601
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:26,840
Speaker 5: brain that helps you have a rational conversation because you

1602
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:30,160
Speaker 5: can regulate your emotions when that part of the brain's online.

1603
01:38:30,479 --> 01:38:33,040
Speaker 5: When you get into an argument and you get flooded,

1604
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:34,160
Speaker 5: it can.

1605
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:36,280
Speaker 4: Take fifteen twenty minutes for that to come back online.

1606
01:38:36,439 --> 01:38:39,400
Speaker 5: Research shows, So yeah, I would say within an hour

1607
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:41,240
Speaker 5: optimal thirty minutes is great.

1608
01:38:41,439 --> 01:38:44,599
Speaker 4: An hour is optimal. No more than two hours though.

1609
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I have.

1610
01:38:45,479 --> 01:38:49,520
Speaker 3: The quicker, the better, Doctor Wes License marriage family therapist.

1611
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:51,800
Speaker 3: It was so great to have you back on. I

1612
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 3: hope you're in the studio next Saturday. What a great

1613
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:56,320
Speaker 3: thing for you to do?

1614
01:38:56,400 --> 01:39:00,960
Speaker 2: Is yes? Absolutely? And is there a way anyone can

1615
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:02,839
Speaker 2: get a hold of you? We talk about this.

1616
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:09,160
Speaker 5: Sure, so I believe you can find me on Western

1617
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:11,360
Speaker 5: craftonphd dot com.

1618
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:12,719
Speaker 4: Perfect website.

1619
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:15,800
Speaker 3: Perfect, Okay, doctor Wes. We will talk to you next week.

1620
01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:19,040
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming on. I have a

1621
01:39:19,080 --> 01:39:22,080
Speaker 3: great weekend everybody. It is going to probably rain in

1622
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:24,479
Speaker 3: the next week. It looks like a lot of rain.

1623
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:28,680
Speaker 3: Maybe we'll be able to have a nice Sunday, a

1624
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 3: nice sunny, warm, somewhat warm Sunday tomorrow. It's Dona D

1625
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:36,000
Speaker 3: seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati.

1626
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:42,280
Speaker 2: What a day? What day?

1627
01:39:43,479 --> 01:39:46,200
Speaker 3: This country is now at war with Iran. I'm sure

1628
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:49,760
Speaker 3: you've heard that about a million times today. I've been

1629
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:52,320
Speaker 3: following this thing all day, and man, is it challenging

1630
01:39:52,880 --> 01:39:56,880
Speaker 3: to think that we are in another war. It's Donna

1631
01:39:56,960 --> 01:40:01,160
Speaker 3: d and this is the show on Saturday. We basically

1632
01:40:01,280 --> 01:40:07,360
Speaker 3: talk about relationships. But tonight is a different it's a

1633
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:11,519
Speaker 3: different story with the news we all woke up this morning.

1634
01:40:11,640 --> 01:40:13,160
Speaker 2: We've been inundated with it.

1635
01:40:13,280 --> 01:40:17,960
Speaker 3: President Trump, along with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyaho, has

1636
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:22,280
Speaker 3: started a war with Iran. My first guest tonight, and

1637
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:26,080
Speaker 3: I am very happy to have her here. Professor of

1638
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:29,640
Speaker 3: Law at Chase College of Law at Northern Kentucky University,

1639
01:40:29,760 --> 01:40:34,240
Speaker 3: Charlene Graham, who specializes in commercial law and threat assessment

1640
01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:39,519
Speaker 3: of interpersonal violence. Charlene, Professor Graham, thank you for coming

1641
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:44,479
Speaker 3: on the show tonight. I really appreciate your your wisdom

1642
01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:45,320
Speaker 3: with me tonight.

1643
01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:48,479
Speaker 1: No problem. I'm happy to be here.

1644
01:40:48,920 --> 01:40:52,040
Speaker 3: So I know it's a tough it's a tough topic,

1645
01:40:52,200 --> 01:40:55,519
Speaker 3: and you know you are a law professor. So I

1646
01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:58,920
Speaker 3: really want to focus on the legal implications for going

1647
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:02,960
Speaker 3: to war with Congression without congressional approval. I want to

1648
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:07,800
Speaker 3: read you a statement released by retired Major General Paul d.

1649
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:11,479
Speaker 2: Eaton. He's an Army commander. He was with the Iraq war.

1650
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:15,639
Speaker 3: He said, quote, the Constitution could not be more clear

1651
01:41:16,160 --> 01:41:20,120
Speaker 3: when launching a war of choice, especially when American lives

1652
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:23,360
Speaker 3: are in the balance. The president goes to Congress and

1653
01:41:23,479 --> 01:41:28,360
Speaker 3: Congress authorizes it. That did not happen, and these operations

1654
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:30,759
Speaker 3: are blatantly unconstitutional.

1655
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:34,360
Speaker 2: Do you agree with that statement? Is it an illegal war?

1656
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:39,800
Speaker 1: Yes? And very simply stated, yes, it is. It is

1657
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:46,920
Speaker 1: uncons unconstitutional. The President did not go to Congress to

1658
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:55,920
Speaker 1: make the case for this assault. And even if there

1659
01:41:56,040 --> 01:42:06,480
Speaker 1: was some belief of an imminent strike on the United States,

1660
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:14,560
Speaker 1: the administration has proffered nothing to support that. And that's significant.

1661
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:16,120
Speaker 1: That's a significant problem.

1662
01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:20,160
Speaker 3: So and that's what I was saying, I really, why

1663
01:42:20,560 --> 01:42:23,760
Speaker 3: why did we go to war with Iran? I know

1664
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:31,120
Speaker 3: that there's some definite arguments being made with their nuclear program,

1665
01:42:31,160 --> 01:42:37,599
Speaker 3: which I thought we handled last summer, and regime change

1666
01:42:37,880 --> 01:42:41,320
Speaker 3: and you know, freedom for the Iranian people.

1667
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:44,519
Speaker 2: Why why do you think or do you think we

1668
01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 2: are there?

1669
01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:48,280
Speaker 1: Oh? Mine?

1670
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:49,439
Speaker 2: Well?

1671
01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:53,800
Speaker 1: Why do why do I think we're there? Well? I

1672
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 1: will say that the arguments that have been made so

1673
01:42:58,040 --> 01:43:02,280
Speaker 1: far following the news, you know, desiring regime change and

1674
01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:08,799
Speaker 1: trying to prevent the development of nuclear weapons to strike us,

1675
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, neither of those two things are imminent. So

1676
01:43:14,160 --> 01:43:18,439
Speaker 1: the justification, if those are the two justifications, you know,

1677
01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:23,519
Speaker 1: there there it's problematic. There seems to have been a

1678
01:43:23,560 --> 01:43:30,960
Speaker 1: strategic act without a clear strategic outcome or a clear

1679
01:43:31,160 --> 01:43:36,120
Speaker 1: strategic objective. The desire, you know, just going on what

1680
01:43:36,160 --> 01:43:40,000
Speaker 1: the President said this morning, the desire for the people

1681
01:43:40,160 --> 01:43:50,439
Speaker 1: of Uhon to rise up is is something that cannot

1682
01:43:50,600 --> 01:43:55,519
Speaker 1: be accomplished there, I say on the fly. It requires planning,

1683
01:43:55,760 --> 01:44:02,800
Speaker 1: It requires intentionality in terms of, you know, building an

1684
01:44:02,840 --> 01:44:09,360
Speaker 1: opposition and supporting that in ways for perhaps a teuthful transfer.

1685
01:44:09,479 --> 01:44:14,960
Speaker 1: But the reality of it is, you know this, you know,

1686
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:19,240
Speaker 1: the justification I will just say, is unclear from that perspective,

1687
01:44:19,320 --> 01:44:24,160
Speaker 1: because there there seems to be no imminent threat, assuming

1688
01:44:25,240 --> 01:44:27,519
Speaker 1: that I do know that during I think it was

1689
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:34,559
Speaker 1: the second Bush administration, uh there was a doctrine that

1690
01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:42,479
Speaker 1: the executive branch adopted to justify action in the wake

1691
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:47,200
Speaker 1: of uh in the name of self defense after nine

1692
01:44:47,240 --> 01:44:51,000
Speaker 1: to eleven those sorts of things. That was a a

1693
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:53,960
Speaker 1: doctrine that was adopted there. And it does seem as

1694
01:44:53,960 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 1: if this administration desires to rename that doctrine for himself.

1695
01:45:02,200 --> 01:45:05,320
Speaker 1: But the issue is, well, where is the imminent threat?

1696
01:45:06,439 --> 01:45:11,840
Speaker 1: You have an articulated one, and from the news reports

1697
01:45:12,200 --> 01:45:18,200
Speaker 1: that I've seen even previous conversations or interviews with Secretary Rubio,

1698
01:45:18,560 --> 01:45:23,759
Speaker 1: there was no articulation of an imminent threat that would

1699
01:45:23,880 --> 01:45:28,680
Speaker 1: justify this. So the reasons are unclear. Now if I

1700
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:33,120
Speaker 1: step away from the constitutional argument and just look at

1701
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:41,519
Speaker 1: the UN again, there are provisions in Article two of

1702
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:46,840
Speaker 1: Chapter one of the UN Charter, as well as Article

1703
01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:52,240
Speaker 1: fifty one that uses language of individual or collective self

1704
01:45:52,240 --> 01:45:57,040
Speaker 1: defense if an armed attack occurs against a member of

1705
01:45:57,240 --> 01:46:06,040
Speaker 1: the United Nations, well, there was no attack on us.

1706
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:15,160
Speaker 1: If the argument is well, we are collectively taking action, again,

1707
01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:20,360
Speaker 1: I where was the where was the threat? There's been

1708
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:25,599
Speaker 1: no articulation of a threat. There's been no armed attack

1709
01:46:26,400 --> 01:46:31,160
Speaker 1: that is being cited as justification. The argument now is

1710
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:37,280
Speaker 1: just regime change. And the collateral damage to this is

1711
01:46:37,360 --> 01:46:41,439
Speaker 1: quite significant. Just listening to the reports all day and

1712
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:46,479
Speaker 1: other surrounding areas where we have air bases and others

1713
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:51,640
Speaker 1: have been under attack throughout the day. I you know,

1714
01:46:52,040 --> 01:46:55,240
Speaker 1: where's where's the exit ramp here? You know, the entry

1715
01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:58,719
Speaker 1: ramp was not clear. The exit ramp is certainly not clear.

1716
01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:02,320
Speaker 3: I think at the State of the Union, which was

1717
01:47:02,320 --> 01:47:05,800
Speaker 3: this week, not no mention of this at all as well,

1718
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:12,240
Speaker 3: no heads up, there's no imminent threat. There's been confusing

1719
01:47:13,200 --> 01:47:17,040
Speaker 3: reasons why why we got into this. We're speaking with

1720
01:47:17,120 --> 01:47:20,120
Speaker 3: Charlene Graham, Professor of Law, Chase College of Law at

1721
01:47:20,200 --> 01:47:21,560
Speaker 3: Northern Kentucky University.

1722
01:47:21,960 --> 01:47:23,519
Speaker 2: So there's being there.

1723
01:47:23,640 --> 01:47:26,120
Speaker 3: There are growing calls for Congress to be called back

1724
01:47:26,120 --> 01:47:31,360
Speaker 3: to Washington, Professor Graham and to have a vote on

1725
01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:35,120
Speaker 3: going to war with Iran. What happens if Congress votes? Know,

1726
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:39,200
Speaker 3: because we've already bombed Iran, I mean we're in it now.

1727
01:47:39,439 --> 01:47:42,719
Speaker 3: I mean they're saying hundreds of casualties, including many children.

1728
01:47:44,040 --> 01:47:49,640
Speaker 3: What can we do now as a country to to

1729
01:47:49,080 --> 01:47:51,920
Speaker 3: to to either stop or fix or you know, get

1730
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:54,439
Speaker 3: out of this or you know what what is it

1731
01:47:54,479 --> 01:47:55,120
Speaker 3: that we can do?

1732
01:47:55,200 --> 01:47:57,759
Speaker 2: And what are the ramifications? Legally?

1733
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:02,760
Speaker 1: Well, you know, this is going to be problematic to

1734
01:48:02,840 --> 01:48:08,920
Speaker 1: the extent through which the administration suggests that following the

1735
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:14,559
Speaker 1: rule of law is in their mind discretionary. How do

1736
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:20,719
Speaker 1: you make someone who doesn't feel the need to follow

1737
01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:25,759
Speaker 1: the follow the law in order to justify certain actions.

1738
01:48:26,200 --> 01:48:30,200
Speaker 1: I think, yes, Congress does need to follow the law

1739
01:48:30,320 --> 01:48:35,640
Speaker 1: and act and review the material uh that the administration

1740
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:40,200
Speaker 1: claims to justify this particular action. They need to make

1741
01:48:40,240 --> 01:48:44,000
Speaker 1: an assessment of that and vote under the War Powers

1742
01:48:44,040 --> 01:48:46,559
Speaker 1: Act as to whether or not they would support this

1743
01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:50,559
Speaker 1: action or not. But you know, I do hope your

1744
01:48:50,600 --> 01:48:54,599
Speaker 1: audience doesn't have a short memory of how long we

1745
01:48:54,600 --> 01:49:02,880
Speaker 1: were in Iraq without clear exit strategies and the you know,

1746
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:09,519
Speaker 1: the losses, the consequences, the cost to us of something

1747
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:13,800
Speaker 1: that we initiate without an exit strategy.

1748
01:49:14,360 --> 01:49:17,320
Speaker 2: I mean, it's wildly I'd love to hear it.

1749
01:49:17,520 --> 01:49:21,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's wildly unpopular with the American people

1750
01:49:21,400 --> 01:49:25,200
Speaker 3: seventy percent in the seventy percent range as well. President

1751
01:49:25,240 --> 01:49:30,120
Speaker 3: Trump ran on a campaign in twenty twenty four to

1752
01:49:30,160 --> 01:49:33,360
Speaker 3: not have any more wars, to be the president the

1753
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:38,360
Speaker 3: pro America and not have any wars. President Trump did say,

1754
01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:42,519
Speaker 3: you know, in that press briefing with the hat on

1755
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:45,920
Speaker 3: and everything, he says, we may have casualties in war.

1756
01:49:46,720 --> 01:49:47,360
Speaker 2: This is war.

1757
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:50,719
Speaker 3: There are going to be potential for risks of death

1758
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:56,320
Speaker 3: and injury of the American forces. Isn't this why you

1759
01:49:56,400 --> 01:49:59,559
Speaker 3: go to Congress first before you start a war. I mean,

1760
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:03,720
Speaker 3: Congress represents the people, and the American people should have

1761
01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:05,880
Speaker 3: a say whether they want their sons and daughters to

1762
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:08,560
Speaker 3: head off to war absolutely.

1763
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:11,799
Speaker 1: I mean it is. It is why the War Powers

1764
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:16,640
Speaker 1: Act was enacted to try to provide a check and

1765
01:50:16,720 --> 01:50:21,000
Speaker 1: balance on the executive branch and to allow the legislative

1766
01:50:21,040 --> 01:50:25,120
Speaker 1: branch to do just that. There is you know, there

1767
01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:29,000
Speaker 1: are committees, Senate committees and others, foreign relation committees, others

1768
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:33,760
Speaker 1: that engage in intelligent that you know, review information all

1769
01:50:33,800 --> 01:50:37,719
Speaker 1: the time. It's not even clear from the various news

1770
01:50:37,720 --> 01:50:42,479
Speaker 1: reports that even that committee was consulted before this action

1771
01:50:42,560 --> 01:50:43,120
Speaker 1: took place.

1772
01:50:43,200 --> 01:50:45,639
Speaker 2: So, you know, I you know.

1773
01:50:45,640 --> 01:50:48,120
Speaker 1: My hope is always that the rule of law will

1774
01:50:48,160 --> 01:50:53,400
Speaker 1: be followed. But I think.

1775
01:50:54,600 --> 01:50:55,280
Speaker 4: We are.

1776
01:50:57,560 --> 01:51:02,120
Speaker 1: Not at the point where as a country we can

1777
01:51:02,200 --> 01:51:13,760
Speaker 1: solely rely on a moral compass or individuals who we

1778
01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:17,960
Speaker 1: can presume will act in good faith. I think we

1779
01:51:18,040 --> 01:51:23,879
Speaker 1: need to be very sober about whether we will allow,

1780
01:51:26,560 --> 01:51:30,120
Speaker 1: you know, individuals in positions of power who will make

1781
01:51:30,200 --> 01:51:36,080
Speaker 1: decisions without adhering to the rule of law, without seeking

1782
01:51:36,120 --> 01:51:40,680
Speaker 1: the advice and consent of Congress, who simply, you know,

1783
01:51:40,920 --> 01:51:50,120
Speaker 1: will act seemingly on a whim.

1784
01:51:50,160 --> 01:51:54,120
Speaker 3: How I'm having a hard time because I've been, like you,

1785
01:51:54,600 --> 01:51:58,559
Speaker 3: watching this play out all day, Professor Graham, How is

1786
01:51:58,600 --> 01:52:01,000
Speaker 3: this a good move for the United States and the

1787
01:52:01,000 --> 01:52:02,759
Speaker 3: American people in any way.

1788
01:52:03,520 --> 01:52:05,320
Speaker 2: I don't I don't see how this.

1789
01:52:05,960 --> 01:52:08,640
Speaker 3: First of all, it's going to create chaos in the

1790
01:52:08,640 --> 01:52:13,120
Speaker 3: Middle East, and that looks to be as far as

1791
01:52:13,160 --> 01:52:16,120
Speaker 3: the reports that I have heard and read all day

1792
01:52:16,160 --> 01:52:18,600
Speaker 3: today is going to be a mess. It's going to

1793
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:26,400
Speaker 3: be long and painful, with a lot of casualties. But

1794
01:52:26,640 --> 01:52:30,599
Speaker 3: how is this in our best interests? How is this America? First?

1795
01:52:30,720 --> 01:52:33,400
Speaker 3: Can you figure out in any way, shape or form,

1796
01:52:33,800 --> 01:52:36,080
Speaker 3: how this is good for the American people.

1797
01:52:38,320 --> 01:52:40,360
Speaker 1: At this point in time, I can say, it's not

1798
01:52:40,520 --> 01:52:45,679
Speaker 1: clear what benefit there is. This is not you know, yes,

1799
01:52:46,240 --> 01:52:53,160
Speaker 1: the administration removed the head of the Venezuelan Venezuelan government,

1800
01:52:55,160 --> 01:53:02,040
Speaker 1: but that government continues. The loyalists to that president uh

1801
01:53:02,680 --> 01:53:06,840
Speaker 1: were not removed. They seemed to be operating in the

1802
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:10,799
Speaker 1: way they had in the past. But Iran is very different.

1803
01:53:11,439 --> 01:53:15,960
Speaker 1: You know, Iran has an enormous revolutionary guard. They have

1804
01:53:16,479 --> 01:53:26,400
Speaker 1: an enormous number of supporters even and you know, recently

1805
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:31,640
Speaker 1: killed many people who sought to tens of thousands of

1806
01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:37,479
Speaker 1: people who sought to protest particular policy policies. You know,

1807
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:41,040
Speaker 1: this particular this regime has the potential to be quite

1808
01:53:41,120 --> 01:53:46,240
Speaker 1: ruthless in its response, and I don't know what the

1809
01:53:46,280 --> 01:53:50,960
Speaker 1: benefit to us is. You know, Iran is not a

1810
01:53:51,000 --> 01:54:01,960
Speaker 1: small country, uh, and I fear that, you know, I

1811
01:54:02,000 --> 01:54:05,240
Speaker 1: don't know, not to be hyperbolic, but I do fear

1812
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:09,599
Speaker 1: a response that the United States is not ready for,

1813
01:54:10,200 --> 01:54:17,280
Speaker 1: which is challenging, and will sacrifice more than it benefits us,

1814
01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:23,440
Speaker 1: and that that always worries me, just having studied you know, historically,

1815
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:28,040
Speaker 1: when countries have engaged in certain types of behaviors that

1816
01:54:28,240 --> 01:54:32,640
Speaker 1: resulted in a war, they never end well for anybody.

1817
01:54:34,120 --> 01:54:37,120
Speaker 1: And so it is difficult to see a clear benefit

1818
01:54:37,240 --> 01:54:41,760
Speaker 1: in this regard. But you know, let's see if they

1819
01:54:44,120 --> 01:54:50,040
Speaker 1: in the coming hours or days the administration chooses to

1820
01:54:51,400 --> 01:54:54,800
Speaker 1: reveal from sort of benefit. What I do know is,

1821
01:54:55,120 --> 01:54:59,720
Speaker 1: you know, twenty what, twenty percent of the world's oil

1822
01:55:00,360 --> 01:55:04,520
Speaker 1: uh comes from that region, and there's a lot of

1823
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:09,280
Speaker 1: speculation that gas prices will go up. That's not going

1824
01:55:09,360 --> 01:55:16,560
Speaker 1: to help the American public who rely on fossil fuels

1825
01:55:16,600 --> 01:55:19,680
Speaker 1: to get to work and get to school and get

1826
01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:24,040
Speaker 1: their groceries. And you know where dollars are particularly tight

1827
01:55:25,040 --> 01:55:28,720
Speaker 1: in several communities. I don't see the benefit.

1828
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:33,520
Speaker 2: No, I miss stock prices will to add, right, I'm sorry.

1829
01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:36,800
Speaker 3: Stock prices are Gas prices will go up, stock prices

1830
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:37,520
Speaker 3: will go down.

1831
01:55:38,160 --> 01:55:40,240
Speaker 2: We're going to see a hit, certainly.

1832
01:55:41,440 --> 01:55:45,160
Speaker 3: In the financial sector, at least that's what people are predicting.

1833
01:55:46,280 --> 01:55:49,560
Speaker 3: So I ran Supreme Leader. According to reports, A. Tola

1834
01:55:49,600 --> 01:55:53,320
Speaker 3: Kamani is dead. He was killed in the attack by

1835
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:57,400
Speaker 3: US and Israeli forces, although Iran is sing the opposite

1836
01:55:57,400 --> 01:56:00,040
Speaker 3: that they that he is still alive. I guess we

1837
01:56:00,120 --> 01:56:03,600
Speaker 3: won't know for sure until DNA is completed.

1838
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:04,720
Speaker 2: How is how?

1839
01:56:05,320 --> 01:56:07,840
Speaker 3: How do you do you have any other information on that?

1840
01:56:08,240 --> 01:56:09,720
Speaker 3: And I know we're focused.

1841
01:56:09,360 --> 01:56:12,960
Speaker 1: On any other information. I will say that, you know,

1842
01:56:14,920 --> 01:56:17,760
Speaker 1: earlier today the Internet was shut down. You know, our

1843
01:56:17,880 --> 01:56:23,600
Speaker 1: sources of information will be fractured for you know, for

1844
01:56:23,720 --> 01:56:29,840
Speaker 1: several days. But if that is true, and it is

1845
01:56:29,880 --> 01:56:34,440
Speaker 1: confirmed to be true, the issue is who follows him

1846
01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:38,680
Speaker 1: into power, and whether or not the person who follows

1847
01:56:38,760 --> 01:56:43,240
Speaker 1: him is better or worse. I think I go back

1848
01:56:43,240 --> 01:56:48,160
Speaker 1: to my original concern that there isn't a strategy beyond

1849
01:56:48,240 --> 01:56:53,400
Speaker 1: the initial action for what happens next. And as much

1850
01:56:53,440 --> 01:56:58,960
Speaker 1: as you can hope for a governmental change that will

1851
01:56:59,560 --> 01:57:04,200
Speaker 1: be ben official, there is always a risk that the

1852
01:57:04,400 --> 01:57:09,640
Speaker 1: change will be worse. And I think that's where I

1853
01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:13,320
Speaker 1: spoke to that sobriety that I think that we all

1854
01:57:13,400 --> 01:57:16,840
Speaker 1: need to have and start paying attention and understanding that

1855
01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:19,960
Speaker 1: there is a risk. There's a benefit, and there's a

1856
01:57:20,040 --> 01:57:24,920
Speaker 1: cost and the risk at this point it can be

1857
01:57:25,000 --> 01:57:28,120
Speaker 1: either of those things, and that's a concern what happens next.

1858
01:57:30,960 --> 01:57:33,880
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Charlene Grand, Professor of lat Chase

1859
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:36,320
Speaker 3: College of lat Northern Kentucky University.

1860
01:57:36,360 --> 01:57:40,400
Speaker 2: Please come back on with me again. I will thank you,

1861
01:57:40,480 --> 01:57:41,520
Speaker 2: thank you so much.

1862
01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:45,000
Speaker 3: On a d Saturday night, seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati,