1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: Twenty after four. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 2: Our friend Robert Wintraub during the football season usually joins 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 2: us on Thursdays, and for twenty today is not Thursday, 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 2: but it is for twenty. We've moved him back today 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 2: because I wanted his thoughts on the Duke Tobin mega 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 2: press conference, which lasted an hour. 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: Robert is with us. Now, did you enjoy the press conference? 8 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 3: And it's funny, you know, we wait and wait and 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 3: wait for duto to Tobin excuse me to speak, and 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 3: then he goes out a little long and everybody's like, yeah, 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 3: get this guy out of here. Where's the hook? A little? 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 2: I wanted it to keep going. I wanted to just 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: go on and on. I would have been more than 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: okay had it leaked into our show. Did you have 15 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 2: any overarching takeaway from Duke's chat with the media, Well, funnily, I. 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 3: Guess my main takeaway is if he's going to be asked, 17 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 3: you know what changes need to be made in Cincinnati 18 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 3: for twenty twenty six, and he answered, we need to 19 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 3: win more games. I'm fine with him not coming to 20 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 3: any of these press conferences and not more often, which 21 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 3: we all sort of want, but I mean, you know, 22 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 3: it was mainly a filibuster. He wanted you to know 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 3: very clearly that the Joe Flacco move was his idea 24 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 3: and it should have ended up in a parade thrown 25 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 3: for him, and you can't understand why. 26 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: And you know, it was a great move. 27 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: I've given him credit for it all season, and in 28 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 3: a different circumstance and different context it would have been 29 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 3: viewed as such. But of course, you know, the overarching 30 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 3: issue was the fact that they just ran back a 31 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 3: defense that was horrible last year and it got worse. 32 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 3: And you know, as they do so often in Cincinnati, 33 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: they expect things to change without any particular reason for it, 34 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 3: and you know, kind of just look to the pass 35 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 3: and say, we did it once upon a time, we've 36 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 3: done it occasionally, and you know that means we can 37 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 3: do it again. And you know, to a point, that's true. 38 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 3: But that's just not the way to operate, obviously, for 39 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 3: a team that's supposedly going after championships. But as I 40 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 3: wrote in the column that right yesterday Cincinnati Magazine, the 41 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 3: Bengals aren't that way. 42 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: This is not who they are. 43 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 3: We all know that their settings are not set to 44 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 3: championship level. It's set to be competitive, you know, it's 45 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 3: not set to all in. It's set to put a 46 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 3: decent team on the field and remain financially flexible. So, 47 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 3: you know, the idea that we were expecting, or people 48 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 3: were expecting, some sort of you know, grand scheme to 49 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: be laid out by Duke and how there's going to 50 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 3: be a massive change going forward, I think was just unrealistic. 51 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 3: It's nice to see at least acknowledge that there's a 52 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 3: lot of frustration, but otherwise, you know, I don't take 53 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 3: away too much from it other than you know, they 54 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 3: at least hear from the outside that there's a lot 55 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: of noise surrounding Duke's job performance over the last couple 56 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 3: of years, and they at least had to trot them 57 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 3: out to you know, get the villagers to extinguish their torches. 58 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: For five minutes. 59 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 3: But overall, not much is going to change. 60 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: I listened to them talk about how there's no comfort, 61 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: lack of comfort. He doesn't have comfort. There's no comfort 62 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: even when you win the Super Bowl. And what I 63 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 2: heard today beyond that and what I see sort of 64 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: flies in the face of that. 65 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: Would you agree, Yeah, completely. 66 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 3: You know, I think wants to come back to what 67 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: the George and one of the most respected personnel guys 68 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 3: really ever in NFL history said once when you know 69 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 3: the Mara family wanted to put one of the sons 70 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 3: in charge of player of personality, he said, you can't 71 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 3: have player of personnel directors who are unaccountable, who can't 72 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 3: be fired, who can't lose their job for bad decisions. 73 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 3: And that's what the Bengals have. I mean, Duke Tobin 74 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 3: is not actually a Brown family member, but for all 75 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 3: intents and purposes, he is. He's a lot like what 76 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: we have with the New York Yankees, who I'm a 77 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 3: big fan of, and you have GM there Brian Cashman, 78 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: who is essentially a family member of the ownership, who's 79 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: been there since before the century he actually started. And 80 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: you know, fans wonder why things don't ever change just 81 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 3: because there's no real danger of him losing his job, 82 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 3: and there's no real danger of Duke Tobin losing his job. 83 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 3: Maybe he's uncomfortable in the fact that he's not doing 84 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 3: his job to the performance level that he wants to have, 85 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 3: and I give him credit for that. And it's not 86 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 3: like he's not capable of building a decent team. Of course, 87 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 3: we've seen who he is. But you know, if you 88 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 3: don't have a situation where you're so uncomfortable that you're 89 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 3: gonna lose your job and your livelihood and have to 90 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 3: go find something else to do with your life, there's 91 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 3: really you know, there's not much else to say. You 92 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 3: can pay lip service for it as much as you 93 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 3: want at these breast conferences, but the truth of the 94 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 3: matter is he can do pretty much what he wants 95 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: with immunity until proven otherwise. So it's hard to try 96 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 3: to really take that too seriously when he says things 97 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 3: like that. 98 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 2: I think a lot of folks have wanted some degree 99 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: of clarity as to who has final say over the roster. Now, 100 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: Duke kind of talked about collaboration. He did say it 101 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: is Mike Brown's team. Did you walk away from it 102 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 2: as frustrated with the lack of clarity about such a 103 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: thing as everybody else did, Well, I. 104 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 3: Guess, I guess. I don't think it is a lack 105 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 3: of clarity. I think he said it flat out. I mean, 106 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 3: I think you know, we as much as we assume 107 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 3: that Mike Brown is sort of receded behind the scenes 108 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 3: and doesn't really give his input. I think he clearly 109 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: does give his input in quite a bit, and probably 110 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 3: in way more I don't want to say demonstrative fashion, 111 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: but he has a lot more of the fingerprints on 112 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 3: the team and the roster than we all kind of 113 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 3: give them credit for. You know, the only real difference 114 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 3: functionally between what Jerry Jones operates in Dallas and what 115 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 3: Mike Brown operates in Cincinnati is that Jerry Jones is 116 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 3: chesty about the fact that that's his team and that's 117 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 3: his roster and that's everything. And in Cincinnati you get 118 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 3: a lot of squid ink being thrown up all the 119 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 3: time because nobody really wants to be responsible for things 120 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 3: like that, and nobody wants to come out and say 121 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 3: that it's a ninety year old GM still kind of 122 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 3: you know, with the final say or the right of 123 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 3: first refusal or you know, I'm not saying he gives 124 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 3: you know, scatting reports on three hundred players and says, 125 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 3: here's the guy we're going to draft every single round, 126 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 3: anything like that. But you know, the sort of overall 127 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 3: just stalt of the team still flows from his opinions 128 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 3: on football and you know, Duke Tobin's role is to 129 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: sort of present with options, give his strong opinion at times. 130 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 3: I'm sure he talks Mike Brown at the things, but 131 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: you know, at the end of the day, it's still 132 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 3: the owner of the team making the final decision. 133 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: Yeah. 134 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 3: I don't think anybody really is surprised by that. It's 135 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: always been the case, and you know, despite his advanced age, 136 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 3: it's always going to be the case until the day 137 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 3: where he's no longer with US. 138 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: Robert win Troup is with US Cincinnati Magazine dot com. 139 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 2: I what Duke Tobin has in front of him this offseason, 140 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 2: it's easy to identify the problems the Bengals have. Coming 141 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 2: up with solutions and navigating all the stuff they're going 142 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: to have to get right is anything but. But I 143 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: do think they have a layup. You got a guy 144 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 2: who plays guard in Dalton Reisner, who didn't not make 145 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 2: a lot of money last year. They got him late 146 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 2: in the process. Dalton has said publicly like I don't 147 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 2: want to go through that again. Go ahead and re 148 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: sign me. Duke Tobin, are you listening? I want to 149 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: play He plays a position the Bengals have had a 150 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: hard time filling. He played it well, especially in the 151 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: second half of the season. The offensive line could actually 152 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: be considered good. This to me, Robert is a layup. 153 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: You got to make your layup, So Duke Tobin, before 154 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: you do the hard stuff, do the easy stuff. You're 155 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: standing under the rim, nobody's near. You lay it in 156 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: and sign Dalton Reisner. Do you agree? 157 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: I do agree. I would say it's a different metaphor. 158 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 3: It's almost like they need to be a gimme putt 159 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 3: where the agents for dult Risers say, ah, just take it. 160 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 3: You know, we don't even want to come. 161 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: Pick it up. Many move on to the next sole. 162 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously it's a queer case of key ned player 163 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 3: playing well and proof of concept and it should be 164 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 3: very easy. That doesn't mean they're going to sign him 165 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 3: next week. I mean, that's just not really how things 166 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: happen in the NFL. They sign love that nature of 167 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 3: your own. Guys tend to drift into at least the 168 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 3: combine and closer to March, just because that's just the 169 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 3: way things are done in the NFL. But you know, 170 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: you made the point that they signed very late in 171 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 3: the process last year, and they could have had him 172 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 3: way earlier, and he would have been up to speed 173 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 3: earlier and wouldn't have had to, you know, kind of 174 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 3: spend several weeks, you know, playing himself into shape and 175 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 3: really gelling with the line. Now you have a situation 176 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 3: where you could easily take care of that problem. You 177 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 3: get rid of something. As you said, there's going to 178 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 3: be a lot of difficult decisions to be made on 179 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 3: the defensive side of the ball by the who and 180 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 3: how many players to approach and free agency in the draft. 181 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: And this is a guy who you know, it's obvious. 182 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 3: The answer is right in front of you. Now these 183 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 3: are the Bengals. Never assume they do the obvious thing. 184 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 3: They could easily look it around and say, well, we 185 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 3: drafted a guy Jalen Rivers, who you know we like 186 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 3: and and maybe if we could save some money and 187 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: a Dalton Riser and put it to the defensive side 188 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 3: of the ball and get away with having a you know, 189 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 3: an untested or a guy in the right guard that 190 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 3: we don't love and hasn't proven himself. But you would 191 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 3: hope that wouldn't be the case. And it's just something 192 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 3: that the Bengals, for all the talk this year about 193 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 3: how you know the reason in the rationale behind you know, 194 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 3: keeping Zach Taylor and and Do Tobin, you know, doing 195 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: things the way they always have been done and nothing's 196 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 3: gonna change. Well okay, well then if it's not that 197 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 3: complicated and you have everything set right in front of you, 198 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 3: then just take care of an easy one without any 199 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 3: you know, drama, without the usual nonsense that goes through 200 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 3: the training camp period. And you know that we see 201 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 3: every single year all the noise and get people talking 202 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 3: on the national shows about the Bengals being the same 203 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 3: old Bengals. They can eliminate that in this particular case 204 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: with one easy move. You would hope they would do it, 205 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 3: but you never know what this club. So I'm not 206 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 3: gonna say it's an automatic give me put They'll have 207 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 3: to make that lay themselves. 208 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well if much like me, if they could blow 209 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 2: a gimme putt, they will, so I guess I can 210 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 2: relate to Duke Tobin in that regard. 211 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: Always awesome stuff. Man, Well chat soon, thank you as. 212 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 3: Always anytime, Thanks so much, Happy New year everyone, right 213 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 3: back at you. 214 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: That's our guy, Robert Wintribe. You could read his Bengals column. 215 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 2: The latest one is up at Cincinnati Magazine dot com. 216 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: Indiana University is sixty minutes away from playing for a 217 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 2: college football playoff national championship. Now that maybe makes it 218 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 2: sound easy. We're going to talk about the Hoosiers with 219 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: somebody who knows more about IU football than anybody on 220 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports station