1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:00,720 Speaker 1: Morning. 2 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 2: Fellas, just wanted to let you know that girl who 3 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 2: left Michael says go here dot com when she was 4 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 2: four years old is now turning eight as of today. 5 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 2: I don't know if you want to sing her a 6 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 2: song or just wish her a happy birthday, but she 7 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: would love to hear it from you, guys. Thanks fellas, A. 8 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 3: Paper Hey to you, got a smile, paper, Hey to. 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: You, paper, Hey, dear Chill, I've been happyaper hey to 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: you A nice sure. We hope you have a nice 11 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: birthday all day long. I hope you have a happy 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: birthday too. 13 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 4: And just remind your dad that you're only about seven 14 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,639 Speaker 4: eight years away from needing a new. 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: Car, and he's got to get you that cell phone 16 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: he promised. 17 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 4: And to sell the mobile phone exactly so Dad, you know, 18 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 4: tell Dad, Hey, you know, I hope she least has. 19 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, But you know, do you think there's an Apple 20 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: store in Anchorage? I don't know how, I've never looked. 21 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: I don't know what sure Amazon delivers. 22 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 4: I'm sure I'm sure Apple would deliver too, so, but 23 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 4: happy birthday, sweet art, Happy birthday. This first, I'm gonna 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 4: talk about guns the first hour. If you're not a 25 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 4: gun person. This segment is not really about guns. Guns 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 4: is just the subject matter. The context of how I 27 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 4: want to talk about guns is critical thinking, analyzing, cognitive dissonance, tribalism, emotionalism, 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 4: advertising and manipulation, all of those things. And this results 29 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,919 Speaker 4: from an offhanded comment, not really offhanded, but a comment 30 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 4: that I made yesterday that for several days I had 31 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 4: in my head just thought that the guy that got 32 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 4: shot in Minneapolis was carrying a block nine millimeters pistol. 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 4: Turns out no, he was carrying a sig Sour P 34 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 4: three twenty, which caught my attention because the P three 35 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 4: twenty has a reputation. I'll and I'll see what the 36 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 4: reputation is in a minute, and that reputation is not 37 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 4: among everybody, it's just among some people. So I said 38 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 4: that based on the and I want to be careful 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 4: in my language here because I don't want to give 40 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 4: away any biases. Let me give rid the biases right 41 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 4: up front. I own sig Sour ar fifteens. I don't 42 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 4: own any sig Sour handguns in particularly, I don't own 43 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 4: the P three twenty. But I do believe that Sigsaur 44 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 4: makes an incredible ar fifteen, and I own let's just 45 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 4: say guns, I just own some AR fifteens. So I'm 46 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 4: not sitting here telling you that sig sour is a 47 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 4: crappy product. I'm just telling you that I personally made 48 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 4: a decision, based on all of my knowledge and even 49 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 4: more so after I've done all the research, that I 50 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 4: just would not own a P three twenty. So that 51 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 4: was and the reason I made the comment yesterday was 52 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 4: because it turns out that the guy who was shot 53 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 4: in Minneapolis, now it turns out he actually had a 54 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 4: P three twenty concealed carrying a P three twenty. I 55 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 4: don't know whether he had it holstered in a pocket, 56 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 4: in a back pocket, stuck in his bell. I have 57 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 4: no idea how he was carrying it. But because of 58 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 4: my yesterday general knowledge of some so called problems with 59 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 4: the P three twenty, I made the comment something to 60 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 4: the effect that, oh huh, it could be that this 61 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 4: gun fired when one of the agents saw it and 62 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 4: was trying to retrieve it. It could have fired when 63 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 4: there was the scuffle going on, and that changes everything, 64 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 4: because that would mean a lot of evidence in whatever 65 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 4: sort of you know, future trial might be had, particularly 66 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 4: mean since he's dead, it won't be a criminal trial, 67 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 4: but there could be a criminal trial against the agents. 68 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 4: The agents could face manslaughter or murder charges depending on 69 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 4: how this thing all plays out, and part of that 70 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 4: trial is going to be the weapon and the evidence 71 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 4: about this weapon. Then at I probably didn't see this 72 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 4: until late in the afternoon yesterday, but Guber ninety three 73 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 4: seventeen sent me a fairly lengthy text, even with the 74 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 4: offer to hey, pick up the phone and call me 75 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 4: if you want to talk about it further, which I 76 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 4: did not do, in which I don't do because I'm 77 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 4: not going to get in the habit of calling goobers 78 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 4: and spending you know, hours and hours talking to goobers. 79 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 4: I spend three hours a day talking with you here, 80 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 4: so that's enough. I still like to have my own life. 81 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 4: But here's what Guber ninety three seventeen wrote, Michael, I 82 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 4: am a goober fan of yours because of your honesty 83 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 4: and objective approach to the complex, complex issues in this 84 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 4: upside down world of today. Please read sig so Hour's 85 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 4: official statements on the P three twenty controversy. I own 86 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 4: a dozen P three twenty handguns in factory condition, and variants, 87 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 4: and have personally shot nearly two hundred thousand rounds of 88 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 4: nine millimeters AMMO threw them over many years. Thanks and 89 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 4: keep up the good fight. 90 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: Signed. 91 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 4: By the way, he's also known as the grammar Nazi 92 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 4: among us two. 93 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: And he doesn't live here. He lives up in the mountains. 94 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 4: And of course I would be very honored answering question 95 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 4: you might have about this subject. Thanks again, gives his 96 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 4: name and gives me a one finger. It's not the 97 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 4: middle finger, it's just ane fingers crossed that fingers crossed 98 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 4: fingerst Okay, all right, I didn't blow up my screen, 99 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 4: so fingers crossed. 100 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: That one text message. 101 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 4: Pretty much sums up one of the controversies about the 102 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 4: p thrint three. And it's kind of the example I 103 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 4: used yesterday about this story in Minneapolis, how people have 104 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 4: gone to their respective corners and that's it. 105 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: I mean, that's it. 106 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 4: Here we go, let's let's let's dive into this, because 107 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 4: I really did spend quite a bit of time yesterday 108 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 4: really digging through uh trying to figure out am I wrong? 109 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: Am I right? 110 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 5: Now? 111 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 4: Come to the conclusion that I've made an individual decision 112 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 4: based on some rational logic and other people have made 113 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 4: decisions based on their rational logic, and I don't think 114 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 4: either people are wrong, but it requires critical thinking to 115 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:14,559 Speaker 4: understand the controversy. And what Juber ninety three seventeen said 116 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 4: and what I'm about to say really involves critical thinking, 117 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 4: and it also involves some tribalism. That's why I wanted 118 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 4: to point out beforehand that I'm not dissing Sig Sour. 119 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 4: I ain't going to diss the P. Three twenty, but 120 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 4: based on my own circumstances, I don't like It's kind 121 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 4: of interesting because in most of my life I love 122 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 4: to take chances and I love to take risks, but 123 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 4: when it comes to firearms, I don't like to take risks. 124 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 4: Just don't like to do it. I mean, it's a tool, 125 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 4: it's a deadly tool. So what's the controversy over the P. 126 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: Three twenty? 127 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 4: You have to understand the controversy to understand how critical 128 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 4: thinking plays into how you react to the controversy. 129 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: And this is a great. 130 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 4: Lesson for all of us to learn in how to 131 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 4: analyze these things. So I would say that this gun, 132 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 4: the P. Three to twenty, has been the center of 133 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 4: a really strong debate somewhere starting back in twenty seventeen, 134 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 4: and the debate is simply, this, can this gun fire 135 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 4: without a deliberate trigger pull? 136 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: That's what I've always heard. That's just what I've always heard. 137 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 4: That the gun can accidentally discharge or there are so 138 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 4: many different ways you can phrase it, but the essential 139 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 4: core controversy is whether or not it can fire without 140 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 4: a deliberate trigger pull. So I decided, as Guber ninety 141 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 4: three seventeen suggested, to research and find the official statement, 142 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 4: which you can find yourself on the sixth hour website 143 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 4: and you can go to I forget what you tab 144 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 4: it is, but when you go to six hour dot 145 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 4: com you can find they have an official statement about 146 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 4: this gun. And when I read it, I thought, wow, 147 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 4: this is an interesting read because as a lawyer, I 148 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 4: immediately thought the lawyers wrote this, and it was It 149 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 4: was written first by the lawyers and then it was 150 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 4: finessed by the public of relations public relations people. They 151 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 4: consistently state that the P. Three six hour does that 152 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 4: the P. Three twenty quote will not fire without a 153 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 4: trigger pull. 154 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: Now I want you to think about that. 155 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 4: That is the core message that six hour puts out 156 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 4: about the controversy surrounding this gun. Now, just hang with me, 157 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 4: because we're going to get into This is not a 158 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,479 Speaker 4: one off controversy. This is subject to a brazilion lawsuits 159 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 4: and it's not necessarily lawsuit from the gun the anti 160 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 4: gun lobby. 161 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: So when I read that the P. 162 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 4: Three twenty quote will not fire without a trigger pull, 163 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 4: I thought, well, if that's technically accurate, but that's potentially 164 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 4: misleading because the real question is what can cause the 165 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 4: trigger to pull? So remember their statement is trying to 166 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 4: disavow the controversy is that this gun will not fire 167 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 4: without a trigger pull. Well, okay, but what can cause 168 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 4: a trigger to pull? The critical issue I don't think 169 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 4: is spontaneous discharge, is whether some sort of impact, dropping it, 170 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 4: or any other force could cause the trigger to move 171 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 4: rearward rear root sufficiently to fire the gun without direct 172 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 4: finger contact. 173 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: That's the controversy. 174 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 4: In twenty seventeen, sig Hour issued a voluntary upgrade, which 175 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 4: they never called a recall. In that upgrade, sig Hour 176 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 4: provided a lighter trigger, they provided a disconnector that had 177 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 4: enhanced geometry, and they provided an improved trigger spring. Now 178 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 4: what does that tell me as a gun purchaser, and 179 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 4: as someone who is who is Let's just say that 180 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 4: I'm somehow involved as a witness or a lawyer, or 181 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 4: I'm on the I represent SIGs Hour, or I represent 182 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 4: somebody that sued six hour anyway, but I'm somehow involved 183 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 4: in this. When you issue a voluntary upgrade it includes 184 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 4: those things. 185 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: What does it tell me? 186 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 4: It tells me that sigsaur clearly identified some kind of 187 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 4: design issue that was serious enough to warrant a significant 188 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 4: retrofit program, even as they maintain, of course, as you 189 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 4: would expect them to do, to maintain that the gun 190 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 4: was safe. And the company never publicly detailed at least 191 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 4: that I could find exactly what failure mode that upgrade preventment, 192 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 4: and of course that in of itself feels even further suspicion. 193 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: Then the lawyers get involved. 194 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 4: Multiple lawsuits have alleged that this gun engaged, engaged in 195 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 4: or had unintended discharges. And there's actually been some pretty 196 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 4: compelling evidence that I could find. There's what's called the 197 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 4: Omaha Police Sergeant case forensic analysis. Forensic analysis in that 198 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 4: case showed the P three to twenty could fire when 199 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 4: dropped at certain angles, and the impact would cause the 200 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 4: trigger to move rear rid without direct contact, so that's interesting. 201 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 4: There's also a mechanical theory in a lot of these cases. 202 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:54,119 Speaker 1: I have found. 203 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 4: Expert witnesses who have testified that the P three to 204 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 4: twenty trigger design allows for three things to occur. There 205 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 4: could be a inertia based trigger movement. So what that 206 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 4: really means is, you know, once it hits something, it 207 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 4: hits the ground. For example, the relatively heavy trigger compared 208 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 4: to striker fire competitors, can continue to move rear word 209 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 4: while the frame stops suddenly. So the gun hits you know, 210 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 4: the floor, a concrete floor, and the frame itself stopped, 211 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 4: but the trigger can continue to move rear word, causing 212 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 4: the firing pin to engage in going to get a discharge. 213 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 4: The second thing I found in terms of mechanics is 214 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 4: inadequate feer engagement. So the geometry allegedly allows the seer 215 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 4: to release with less trigger movement than what's optimal. And 216 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 4: of course there's no trigger safety blade on some models, 217 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 4: and of course I compare that to the glock, where 218 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 4: you know, you obviously have safety blades. When I start 219 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 4: reading the lawsuits, so let's just think of where we all. 220 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 4: We have a listener who loves the P three twenty 221 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 4: and encouraged me to go read the statement. So I 222 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 4: read the statement, and the statement did not accomplish what 223 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 4: he thought the statement was going to accomplish, and instead 224 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 4: it actually raised more questions for me, because again, when 225 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 4: I read the language that the company itself is saying 226 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 4: that it cannot fire or it will not fire without 227 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 4: a trigger pull, I thought, well, yeah, technically that may 228 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 4: be correct, but that doesn't mean that, oh, there could 229 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 4: be other ways for it to fire. So you see 230 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 4: that the attempt to convince me of hey, listen, I've shot, 231 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 4: you know, two hundred thousand rounds or whatever it was, 232 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 4: two bazillion rounds and own a whole bunch of these 233 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 4: and apparently some modified versions of them. They're all in 234 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 4: factory condition, which means you must really keep them in 235 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 4: really good shape. 236 00:14:58,720 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: With that many rounds going through the. 237 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 4: That was going to convince me that there is no controversy, 238 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 4: and instead, I've decided that there is a significant controversy. 239 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 4: So we have real world problem, real world incidents here 240 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 4: that confirm my own bias against this gun and go 241 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 4: against what the listener said. Now, Again, I know we're 242 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 4: talking about a gun, but you don't have to understand 243 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 4: anything about this gun to understand the analysis that I'm 244 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 4: trying to put forward, because the argument was, hey, this 245 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 4: is not a real controversy. For example, even six six 246 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 4: Sour has put out a statement and I own numerous 247 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 4: of these guns and I have fired hundreds of thousands 248 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 4: of rounds. Okay, well that's great, but what about these incidents. 249 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 4: We've had multiple police departments report discharges when holster guns 250 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 4: were either dropped or bumped somehow impacted the military. The 251 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 4: army's seventeen eighteen adoption is a P three to twenty 252 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 4: based model, included additional safety requirements. So when the procurement 253 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 4: people in the DoD looked at Sig Salar and said, 254 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 4: we want you to develop a service weapon for us, 255 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 4: and we want based on the P three twenty, but 256 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 4: we need these additional safety requirements, well that's kind of 257 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 4: interesting because if the military, if the military needs additional 258 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 4: safety requirements, the average citizenshipd too. Right, there is some 259 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 4: foreign testing that's taking place in Canada, in particular where 260 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 4: the Canadians found drop fire issues. So how do how 261 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 4: does and I'm not at all trying to put words 262 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 4: in ninety three seven Guber ninety three seventeen's mouth. But 263 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 4: how would someone defending this particular gun use arguments to 264 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 4: go against what I've just told you. Well, I found 265 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 4: about five things that those that are pro or six 266 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 4: hour itself argue. One always user error, poor handling. That 267 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 4: explains almost every incident, well not in cent litigation. 268 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: That doesn't. 269 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 4: Two, there's no confirmed case of a P three to 270 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 4: twenty firing quote on its own. Okay, well I get that, 271 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 4: but that's not the argument. There's got to be some 272 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 4: triggering event. It's not like I get if I have 273 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 4: a P three twenty just sitting over here on the 274 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 4: console and I'm just talking, all of a sudden it 275 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 4: just discharges. That's not what we're talking about. What we're 276 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 4: talking about is an impact or getting caught in clothing 277 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 4: or any number of things that might cause the trigger 278 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 4: to move rare road which would engage and cause the 279 00:17:58,720 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 4: gun to fire. 280 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: It's in a finger. 281 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 4: And there's also this issue, and the issue is pretty simple. 282 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 4: There are millions of these guns out in the real world, 283 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 4: millions of them. Hey, this hour's chance to win that 284 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 4: thousand bucks coming up? In the next five minutes thanks 285 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 4: to Mercedes Bens of Littleton Mercedes of Littleton dot com. 286 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: Hey, let's go. 287 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 4: Talk to Gary over the Retirement Planning Center of the Rocky. So, Gary, 288 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 4: you and are going to meet tomorrow night up in 289 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 4: Loveland at the Where are we meeting? 290 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: I forgot eleve in front of me. 291 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: We're meeting at the embassy Embassy site. 292 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: That's right, that's. 293 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 3: Right, Bud buys you event center. 294 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, so seven pm. I'll be there round six thirty. 295 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 4: So tell me what people can expect tomorrow evening. 296 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 3: Well, hey, you know, we appreciate Michael, first of all 297 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 3: your ability to come and spend some time with us. 298 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 3: And this is always a wonderful event. We try to 299 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 3: do it once a year. 300 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 6: We're going to course cover our our trademark Summit Retirement 301 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 6: Guy five Peet Cross, which deals within income. It we'll 302 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 6: deal with investments. 303 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 3: We'll have a CPA. 304 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 6: James Manson with Hani and Company there with us. He's 305 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 6: one of our strategic partners. 306 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 3: Who will address a lot of. 307 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 6: The issues people have, especially now as it relates to 308 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 6: the changes with the taxes with the One Big Beautiful 309 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 6: Act Bill. It will also cover things having to do 310 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 6: with healthcare and Dana Griffin, which Choice City Health is 311 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 6: our medicare partner, and he'll be there. And then of 312 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 6: course the last piece of that is the legacy piece, 313 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 6: and that deals with the legal work that ties us 314 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 6: all together. And we'll have Brent Kill and James Park 315 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 6: with minor Kill and Park and an attorney firm. 316 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 3: That will be there to address it as well. 317 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 6: You know, one other thing we'll talk about to Michael 318 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 6: is we're going to have some discussion on the Gold 319 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 6: and Silver and what's going on with that, and we're 320 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 6: keeping a good pulse on that. I have said, clients 321 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 6: invested in that for some time. So we're just excited 322 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 6: to have this event and have people come and attend 323 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 6: and enjoy a nice environment and some refreshments and. 324 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 3: Be there with a guy like you. I mean, more 325 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 3: work they. 326 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 4: Ask for exactly exactly, and I might even wear pants 327 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 4: tomorrow night. 328 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 3: You never know, Well that would probably be good for 329 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 3: both of us. 330 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, probably would probably would. 331 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 4: So I want to encourage everybody to get onto the 332 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 4: Retirement Planning Center of the Rockies website. It's rpcenter dot com. 333 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 4: Go to rpcenter dot com and there's a few tickets left, 334 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 4: So go ahead and get lined up, and then you 335 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 4: can meet Gary and his team, uh and talk with 336 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 4: me tomorrow evening the Embassy Embassy suite right off I 337 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 4: twenty five up in Luveland tomorrow night. I'll be there 338 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 4: at six thirty. The event starts at seven. Go online 339 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 4: right now rpcenter dot com. So now let's go right 340 00:20:55,119 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 4: back to this analysis of the P three twenty. Actually, 341 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 4: that's that's framing it wrong. Let's go back to the 342 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 4: arguments about the P three twenty because I'm not talking 343 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 4: about Minneapolis. I'm not talking about what happened in Minneapolis. 344 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 4: I'm talking about how we learn to consume this information, 345 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 4: which is controversial information, and how we critically analyze it. 346 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 4: So I'm walking through how I analyzed the P three 347 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 4: twenty controversy. Yes, it's about the gun in the sense 348 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 4: that the controversy is about a gun. But what I'm 349 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 4: trying to impart is how do you break down an analysis? 350 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 4: And so if you're sending me text messages about for example, 351 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 4: I'm just gonna pick on and I'm picking I am 352 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 4: picking on you, Mike, there were like ten agents on 353 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 4: the guy. How many does it take to take somebody 354 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 4: into custody. That's not the subject matter at all. That's 355 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 4: not at all what I'm trying to accomplish here. What 356 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 4: I'm trying to accomplish is that we I now found 357 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 4: out that the guy had a P three to twenty. 358 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 4: It's a gun that I've known about for years and 359 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 4: I've never owned one. Although I do own sig sour 360 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 4: other types of guns, I've never owned this gun. And 361 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 4: I won't own this gun because of controversy around it. 362 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 4: And I said that yesterday, and that led to a 363 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 4: text message that says, Hey, I'm a fan of yours 364 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 4: because of your honesty and objective approach to the complex 365 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 4: issues in this upside down world of today. Please read 366 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 4: sig Sour's official statements on the P three twenty controversy. 367 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 4: Because I own a dozen of these in factory condition 368 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 4: and different variants, and I've personally shot nearly two hundred 369 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 4: thousand rounds of nine millimeters through them over the years, 370 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 4: and so that caused me to actually go read the statement, 371 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 4: the official statement from sig Sour, and that sent me 372 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 4: down a rabbit hole. And what I want you to 373 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 4: do is to hear of the rabbit hole and how 374 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 4: I come to the conclusion and how I deconstruct the 375 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 4: argument that, for example, the guber ninety three seventeen loves 376 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 4: this gun, owns a bunch of them, has fired. 377 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: Hundreds of thousands of rounds. 378 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 4: Yet I, also a big gun supporter, in fact owns 379 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 4: some sixar fifteens, will not purchase this gun. And the 380 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 4: listener ninety three seventeen, I think Ossie was trying to 381 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 4: convince me, Hey, this gun's really not that bad. Go 382 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 4: read the statement, go study it. And what I did 383 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 4: was I actually came back even more convinced that I 384 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 4: don't want to buy this gun, and I want you 385 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 4: to hear the reasoning and the logic, because this is 386 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 4: how you should think about anything. Again, has nothing to 387 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 4: do with what happened in Minneapolis. It's just that the 388 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 4: gun in Minneapolis turns out to be the same gun. 389 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 4: So I went through the state the official statement, and 390 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 4: as I pointed out, the language of the official statement 391 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 4: itself caused me to question the validity of the statement 392 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 4: because they were using lawyer language, and the lawyer language 393 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 4: was pretty straightforward. It was quote will not fire without 394 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 4: a trigger pull. Now, at least a thousand other ways 395 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 4: that the gun could fire. So the statement of its 396 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 4: in of itself, from my way of thinking, raised more 397 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 4: questions than it answered. And then as I dig through, 398 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 4: I find out I already found out or I don't remember. 399 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 4: I probably don't remember, and probably just found out because 400 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 4: I don't own one of these guns. It's just one 401 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 4: that I've just blocked off, not going to own. They 402 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 4: did a voluntary upgrade in twenty seventeen, changed a lot 403 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 4: of things about the trigger. Then we have multiple lawsuits, 404 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 4: and we found out that there are several cases one 405 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 4: from Omaha, the US military, and other places where there 406 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:02,719 Speaker 4: had been discharges with out a finger pull got it, 407 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 4: law enforcement, military, foreign testing, and then we got so 408 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 4: all of those things in my brain is evidence evidence 409 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 4: that shows that my conclusion about not wanting to own 410 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 4: this gun because there is a Now, there's a risk, 411 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 4: and we can have an argument all day long about 412 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 4: how large the risk is, but when it comes to firearms, 413 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 4: I want to minimize my risk to virtually zero. I 414 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 4: know it's never going to be zero, but as close 415 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 4: to zero as I can get. Now, what's the counter argument, 416 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 4: Because if you're really going to be honest with yourself, 417 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 4: is I wanted to be looking through this. I had 418 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 4: to think about it from the perspective of the listener. 419 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: And from those who own the guns, or from the. 420 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 4: Vantage point of sig Sour or anyone who is defending 421 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 4: sig Sour or the weapon in a lawsuit. And of 422 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 4: course the porters and the company itself argue that there's 423 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 4: always user error, and I agree, there's always user error. 424 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 4: A plane goes down, Well, what's the first thing that 425 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 4: you know? The FAA might say, yeah, pilot error, and 426 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 4: then there is no confirm. But I find this one interesting, 427 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 4: no confirmed case of a P three twenty firing quote 428 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 4: on its own without some triggering event. Now, if that's 429 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 4: going to be the defense's argument in a court room, 430 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 4: I'm going to tear that apart, because without what's what's 431 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 4: a triggering event? A triggering event, inn la person's mind 432 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 4: might be just a finger pull. No, a triggering event 433 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 4: could be you drop it. The triggering event could you 434 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 4: you could bang it? And the other defense argument is, 435 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 4: and there's really no, well there is an argument against this. 436 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 4: They will argue just like the listener did, I own 437 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 4: dozens of these, and sig Sour and their supporters would argue, well, 438 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 4: there are millions of these in service without incident. How 439 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 4: many times do we hear somebody say I'm gonna do 440 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 4: something so this never happens again, or if it just 441 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 4: saves one life. 442 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: Well, that's kind of the argument being made here. 443 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 4: There are millions of these in service and people fire 444 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 4: them all day long and nothing happens. Yeah, I choose 445 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 4: not to use it because we do have evidence of 446 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 4: where it has happened, and so therefore I don't want 447 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 4: to do it. And we also have the expert witnesses 448 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 4: that are always paid. And then the so called upgrade 449 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 4: they called an enhancement, not fixing a defect. Is that 450 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 4: a distinction without a difference in my mind? 451 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 5: Yes, Michael, this all started when an Obama Secret Service 452 00:27:55,240 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 5: agent decided to go break dancing, did aad flip, dropped 453 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 5: his gun, and it shot somebody in the leg. 454 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: I remember this. Up until that. 455 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 5: Time, nobody even knew about the That was the first 456 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 5: incident that. 457 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 4: I don't know if I agree with you that that 458 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 4: was the first incident. That may have been the first 459 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 4: highly publicized incident, because the problem is we have ongoing 460 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 4: lit I'm not going to go through all the ongoing litigation. 461 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 4: But there's ongoing litigation that best I can tell, is 462 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 4: not backed by any anti gun groups like the Brady 463 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 4: Outfit or anybody else. These are legitimate trial personal injury 464 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 4: lawyers who are making really good product defect arguments, and 465 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 4: some of these lawsuits are continuing, and some of these 466 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 4: lawsuits had been won. Now that doesn't actually prove anything 467 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 4: other than there be there might be a defect. But 468 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 4: remember what we're trying to do here is to analyze 469 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 4: logic and how you think about something. So I don't 470 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 4: to spend you know, the whole show on this. So 471 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 4: I want to bring it around to the bottom line. 472 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 4: I told you that I own six AR fifteens. So 473 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 4: what I've done is I've separated product from product rather 474 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 4: than defending the entire brand. And I think that's just 475 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 4: a smart risk assessment. So what I'm saying is, you know, 476 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 4: sixth hour makes good AR fifteens, and that's based on 477 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 4: my experience. And I'm saying the P three twenty has 478 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 4: documented controversies. That's based on evidence from real lawsuits in 479 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 4: real courtrooms. And then I made the third and final 480 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 4: decision that I'm going to avoid that specific problem product, 481 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 4: which is just a rational choice. So my experience, based 482 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 4: on evidence, I make a rational choice. But the defenders 483 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 4: are doing this, They're saying sig makes good products generally. Well, 484 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 4: that's true, But therefore they would argue the P three 485 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 4: twenty cannot have problems. That's a logical fallacy. 486 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: Then they will. 487 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 4: Argue that, oh, if you're questioning the P three twenty, 488 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 4: then you must be anti gun. Well no, because I'm 489 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 4: a six hour owner, just not that model. But when 490 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 4: you say anyone questioning the safety of a of a 491 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 4: P three twenty, you're anti gun. That's tribal thinking. Now, 492 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 4: sig Ar fifteens have an entirely different reputation. Four hundred 493 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 4: line tread the pro all the others, Consistent positive reviews 494 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 4: across multiple sources, reliable performance, zero malfunctions reported through hundreds 495 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 4: of thousands of rounds, good accuracy, sound, solid quality control, 496 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 4: proper staking pending tolerances, no pattern of similar failures failures 497 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 4: across users. 498 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: And fair pricing. 499 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 4: There's a time when sixs RAR fifteen's back during the 500 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 4: Obama years, were outrageously expensive, but they're fair priced sub 501 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 4: one thousand dollars for quality features. In other words, the 502 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 4: AR platform does not have the specific design controversy that 503 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 4: plagues the P three twenty, So I'm avoiding cognitive dissonance 504 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 4: because many three P three twenty defenders fall into into 505 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 4: a trap that I've sidestepped. There's the brand loyalty trap. 506 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 4: I Ownzig products, I trust sig and therefore all sig 507 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 4: products must be good. The P three twenty controversy must 508 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 4: be fake. That's a brand loyalty trap. And then my logic. 509 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 4: I own a sig Ar, it works great, cig can 510 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 4: make good product products. But in my mind, the P 511 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 4: three twenty has some specific, documented issues, so. 512 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: I'll pass on that one. 513 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 4: So I'm demonstrating what psychologists would call product specific evaluation 514 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 4: rather than halo effect bias. And I think my position 515 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 4: is actually pro gun. Here's the irony. My approach is 516 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 4: actually more protecting of gun rights than a blind defender, 517 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 4: because I'm saying manufacturers should be held accountable if there 518 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 4: is a specific design flaw, and that would protect the 519 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 4: industry's overall reputation. I'm also saying that one bad product 520 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 4: doesn't invalidate the entire brand. Hell's mails my own sixth hour, 521 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 4: and I also believe consumers can make informed choices without 522 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 4: banning anything. And then the vociferous defenders, by contrast, are saying, well, 523 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 4: any criticism of any guns an attack onlog Now I'm not 524 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 4: saying ninety three seven teams doing that. I'm just saying 525 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 4: this is what people that criticize guns would say. And 526 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 4: some people would argue that manufacturers can do no wrong. 527 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 4: That's really ignorant, and injured parties must be lying or incompetent. Really, 528 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 4: then why are juries in some cases Judges actually finding 529 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 4: a defect and actually finding liability. So I'm trying to 530 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 4: preserve consumer choice and accountability. And there's a risk assessment 531 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 4: angle too. The P three to twenty has a risk 532 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 4: profile that's a document of pattern of failures, multiple jury verdicts, 533 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 4: law enforce departments not using them, manufacturers seeking legislative immunity, 534 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 4: the military version required additional safety Yet to see AR fifteen. 535 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 4: That risk profile sixty plus years of development. It's a 536 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 4: mature AR fifteen platform, consistent positive reviews, no pattern of 537 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 4: catastrophic failures, and my personal positive experience, and there's no 538 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 4: lawsuit journey bans. So I'm making a differentiate. Assessments don't 539 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 4: actual evidence that's what we should do and we should 540 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 4: avoid the tribalism