Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American.
Speaker 2: Cloni on seven hunder high profile and violent crimes lead
Speaker 2: the news. So well, why, well, your's neglect underfunding police
Speaker 2: law enforcement generally ignoring the problem while focusing more on
Speaker 2: programs and promises. And if you promise not to go
Speaker 2: and kill someone, we will let you out of jail. Here,
Speaker 2: So you had a gun, you're doing violent, Just go ahead,
Speaker 2: but you're gonna come back. You're gonna get a job, right,
Speaker 2: report your probation officer, Sure you are.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: As such, the mayor is feeling the heat and with
Speaker 2: the election coming up, of course, now we're on the
Speaker 2: death watch for the career of police Chief Terry Thiji.
Speaker 2: The question, though, is how much is this on her?
Speaker 2: As she has now been summoned back from Denver to conference.
Speaker 2: Dan Hill's a former FOP, long time i f WEP president,
Speaker 2: now in private practice with Front Light Advisors. He's a
Speaker 2: law enforcement consultant. Dan, Welcome, How are.
Speaker 3: You, Ahlony? I'm doing great?
Speaker 4: Always yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2: So she's in Denver for a conference and city manager
Speaker 2: share Along tells her to return immediately to addressed departmental matters.
Speaker 2: When I hear that, okay, So what has happened in
Speaker 2: the last forty eight to seventy two hours that would
Speaker 2: warrant her being plucked from a conference in Denver to
Speaker 2: fly back to Cincinnati because there's some huge departmental matter
Speaker 2: what's going on. Of course someone's going to go, well,
Speaker 2: she's probably getting fired.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: First of all, let's start with that.
Speaker 2: Why would you do that now instead of like right
Speaker 2: after the city bird shooting or any of this other stuff.
Speaker 2: You're going to sacrifice her, which we'll get into a second.
Speaker 2: Why are in the middle, Okay, we need to do
Speaker 2: this right, and we're going to pull you out of
Speaker 2: a conference and bring you back and fire you. Well,
Speaker 2: why is that happening right now?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean the easy answer is the election. You know,
Speaker 3: this is far too political in some ways, and that's
Speaker 3: the problem that the office of police chief has become political.
Speaker 3: So we'd have to almost go way back in the
Speaker 3: rewind to issue five, where they changed the way that
Speaker 3: the police chief answers the city hall, the way he
Speaker 3: selected for he or she is selected.
Speaker 2: Talking about that, explain issue five when that was in
Speaker 2: the in the history that because I know that I'm
Speaker 2: throwing around for a while, I mean as best we can,
Speaker 2: but how long ago that was and what that means
Speaker 2: and how that led us to know?
Speaker 3: Boy I was, I was Tom Shreker was the last
Speaker 3: chief that was selected in the old way. So we're
Speaker 3: talking about sometime in the nineties. I guess kind of
Speaker 3: kind of hard for me to pick out dates now
Speaker 3: at my age, But it used to be, well, while
Speaker 3: the manager still selected the police chief, the police chief
Speaker 3: came from within the agency, and uh, then you had
Speaker 3: to have cause, and that's a that's a big legal
Speaker 3: term to fire somebody. So you know, if if if
Speaker 3: the police chief's gotten some sort of criminal behavior or
Speaker 3: you know, sexual harassment or something of that nature, that
Speaker 3: would be cause, and then the police chief could be fired.
Speaker 3: But you can't just go. You know, politics is getting
Speaker 3: a little rough for me. If I may have have
Speaker 3: and go, you know, I think I'll sacrifice the chief
Speaker 3: so that that that that's what's changed, is that now
Speaker 3: the the office of blea chief is very very political.
Speaker 3: And and this comes to my belief, if you want
Speaker 3: me to go on with this about where we where
Speaker 3: we are and how we got there is I think
Speaker 3: that that Terry Figi is not the problem she's a
Speaker 3: symptom of the problem. I think she was given the
Speaker 3: job not for DEI reasons per se, because I think
Speaker 3: Terry's smart lady. I think she was given for good
Speaker 3: ol boy reasons. I think she agreed to sing or
Speaker 3: dance to the tune of whatever the city manager went
Speaker 3: under the dance do. And and so now we're talking
Speaker 3: about what's going on at city hall, and and got
Speaker 3: her jobs on Frithier the other day. And I could
Speaker 3: tell you care you care about how much, uh you know,
Speaker 3: crime is hurting the city of Cincinnati and its reputation
Speaker 3: and everything. And you you would have to ask yourself,
Speaker 3: since you care, why does a city that cares about
Speaker 3: crime hirely like Irish Rolly. It just doesn't make any sense. Right. So,
Speaker 3: if I'm a perspective police chief, which I'm not, and
Speaker 3: you're asking me, hey, you want to come here to
Speaker 3: my city of Cincinnati and be the police chief, I
Speaker 3: would sit there and take a look at the look
Speaker 3: at everything that's there to be dealt with, and I
Speaker 3: would I would see, I would see Irish Roley, and
Speaker 3: I'd go, well, you got to get rid of her first,
Speaker 3: And oh no, no, she's an important part of playing stuff.
Speaker 3: And that's why I go, eh.
Speaker 4: I'm out, I'm out.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I heard through the same cops that
Speaker 2: you talk to too, that when we're bringing the troopers in,
Speaker 2: I guess, and this is in the last couple of weeks,
Speaker 2: a few weeks, that she was the one telling them
Speaker 2: what they can and can't do when they enact to
Speaker 2: stop or question a subject in the course of doing
Speaker 2: their duty as a police swarm law enforcement officer under
Speaker 2: Ohio law. I'm like, why am I having a consultant
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollar a year quote unquote consultant tell me
Speaker 2: how I'm supposed to handle and address sub suspects or
Speaker 2: subjects and people I may contact with in the course
Speaker 2: of my job.
Speaker 4: That's not in the scope of her duties.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to advise the mayor's officer,
Speaker 2: the city manager, share along on you know, community matters
Speaker 2: and the like. You know, everyone deserves a seat at
Speaker 2: the table. It's it's you know, it's a public enterprise. Sure,
Speaker 2: but it seems like iris Reli has way too much
Speaker 2: power for someone in her position or someone in her
Speaker 2: from as someone.
Speaker 4: Involved in what she is. That that's the problem.
Speaker 2: If I'm looking at that as a job going if
Speaker 2: I'm here and that I'm like, hell, no, i ain't
Speaker 2: come to Cincinnati because I'm not gonna have.
Speaker 3: Any power, of course not. And that's the thing is
Speaker 3: what is what is her position is that it's something
Speaker 3: related to the Claire Verve. And let me tell you
Speaker 3: that I had to deal with the clavorative, which is
Speaker 3: pages and pages of pages of saying that we're going
Speaker 3: to communicate better and we're going to be transparent. Okay,
Speaker 3: I could cover I could cover the whole collaborative in
Speaker 3: those two words. We're going to be more transparent and
Speaker 3: and we're going to collaborate more with the community and
Speaker 3: communicate and communicate better with me. That's it, that's all,
Speaker 3: That's all it is. And then they're paying this lady
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand dollars and that's not what she does.
Speaker 3: She doesn't communicate better. On my eyes, she's not helping
Speaker 3: us be transparent. She goes out and she gets in
Speaker 3: the way of police officers doing their work. And it
Speaker 3: seems to me this is what their belief is, is
Speaker 3: that that she somehow has the a riot button and
Speaker 3: if we don't make iris happy, she can punch a
Speaker 3: riot button. I don't believe that she has that power.
Speaker 3: I think they think she has that power, and that's
Speaker 3: why they go around at a Pieter and let her
Speaker 3: hire her son and all that stuff. But I'll also
Speaker 3: bring up the CCIA to sistant complain authority. They do
Speaker 3: nothing but handicap the cops with ridiculous complaints, and the
Speaker 3: and the way that they deal with them, and the
Speaker 3: amount of money they throw. I'm sure they throw millions
Speaker 3: at that, all the investigators and everything they have. And
Speaker 3: I use the word and saying too much, but imagine
Speaker 3: the insanity. You're fighting the Germans, right, it's World War two.
Speaker 3: You're fighting the Germans. But we have an office out
Speaker 3: of our government that helps the Germans. I mean, that's
Speaker 3: we're trying to fight crime. And then yet we have
Speaker 3: we have folks that go out there and try to
Speaker 3: handicap the police. It's like trying to handicap the navy
Speaker 3: or the army or anything else during the time of war.
Speaker 3: Just doesn't make any sense, because we we do. We
Speaker 3: have a crisis out there, and the crisis is phony.
Speaker 3: Not to not to get too big picture, but it's
Speaker 3: it's it's it's spiritual, it's cultural, it's all sorts of
Speaker 3: things that lead to all this crime and all this
Speaker 3: trouble that we're having with the youth. And look, the
Speaker 3: problems at the state level, we don't have enough prisons.
Speaker 3: The problems huge at the county level because we have
Speaker 3: a bunch of judges that are just absolutely woke in
Speaker 3: saying that wants to give proper bail, re bonds and stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's if I have to throw a dart at the
Speaker 3: biggest problem, and.
Speaker 2: Dan hits there. Unaccountable is the problem. So you know,
Speaker 2: we know that the Tim Holloway and the Police Chiefs
Speaker 2: Association of Hamlin County, all the little villages and hamlets,
Speaker 2: and they're trying to have these summits where they're getting
Speaker 2: all the stakeholders involved, from citizens, from cops to lawyers.
Speaker 2: And here's a order that judges can't show up to
Speaker 2: this because it's against some sort of judicial ethic. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, when it comes time to vote,
Speaker 2: they're in the community telling people how to vote and
Speaker 2: meeting with constituents about how judges and how their office works.
Speaker 2: So it seems like a huge conflict and they're just
Speaker 2: cherry picking what they want and what not to do.
Speaker 2: And you know, again, how many times have we had
Speaker 2: like this guy? The guy the latest example, And I'm
Speaker 2: sadly we'll probably have another one, hopefully not tonight on
Speaker 2: Thursday night football, Dan Hills.
Speaker 4: Can you imagine?
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's the shot of the Cincinnati skyline. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: here's the genius of water Statute, Fountain Square. Never mind
Speaker 2: those swat officers with assault weapons and helmets and tactical gear.
Speaker 2: Never mind them. But look at the it seems like
Speaker 2: a nice city. I want to visit. Well, the cops
Speaker 2: standing around fountains where with guns to keep people from
Speaker 2: shooting each other. At City Bird, there's a guy twenty
Speaker 2: four years old. And I said, the minute it happened,
Speaker 2: I guarantee you that this guy's got a jacket, he's
Speaker 2: got something on him, he has a history, and he
Speaker 2: is prohibited because he has a prior felony from having
Speaker 2: a gun. And I said, you could bet the house
Speaker 2: on that happening. And sure enough turns out the guy
Speaker 2: the guy they're looking for. It fits that description that
Speaker 2: this guy is not allowed by law as they convict
Speaker 2: of having a convicted record rather felony record.
Speaker 4: That shouldn't have a gun on him.
Speaker 2: And that's the problem, right is I had a lawmaker
Speaker 2: and yesterday, I don't know if you heard a lot
Speaker 2: of council person was talking about how we need to
Speaker 2: get tougher gun laws.
Speaker 4: I said, the problem, that's not the problem.
Speaker 2: The problem is you got guys out there running around
Speaker 2: with guns shooting each other who shouldn't have them. Throw
Speaker 2: them behind bart, put them in prison. If you are
Speaker 2: prohibited from him of a gun in your phone, or
Speaker 2: you cut your ankle monitor off. We don't take it
Speaker 2: seriously enough, and that just encourages more of that behavior.
Speaker 3: Bunny, we have the gun lall. I heard you saying that.
Speaker 3: I heard the rant. I think he might have stole
Speaker 3: from my many years as if of be president, because
Speaker 3: I was saying it over and over again. We have
Speaker 3: weapons under disability. If we truly enforce the weapons under
Speaker 3: disability are are violence as far as shootings and stuff
Speaker 3: with plummet There's just no doubt about it. Every time
Speaker 3: we come across a dirt ball with a gun that
Speaker 3: has the convictions that shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun.
Speaker 3: If he went away for the max time for allowed
Speaker 3: for weapons under disability. It wouldn't turn around overnight, but
Speaker 3: you could see for without a doubt that that effect
Speaker 3: would start to change because look, everybody in the community
Speaker 3: would start to talk like, man, you know, do you
Speaker 3: know how he's doing. He's doing hard time because he
Speaker 3: had a gun, because he had previous pelonies. Next thing,
Speaker 3: you know, people aren't carrying guns as much and in
Speaker 3: that atmosphere, and if they don't have a gun just
Speaker 3: because just because all of a sudden they get angry,
Speaker 3: if they if they're of a mindset that they get
Speaker 3: angry at somebody at the city bird, they're not going
Speaker 3: to crack off around at him. You know, I carry
Speaker 3: a gun because I'm still a police end of this day,
Speaker 3: but plenty if I get man at you at the
Speaker 3: city bird, I'm not going to crack off around.
Speaker 2: In ninety nine plus percent percent of the population thinks
Speaker 2: the way we do, Dan Hills. It's the size of
Speaker 2: sociopaths out there. It's the pre pill around the path
Speaker 2: to be career criminals. Our career criminals that are that
Speaker 2: are executing this kind of behavior and the other ament
Speaker 2: of guns is the reason why people are getting guns
Speaker 2: is because people are coming to Cincinnati. They're scared to death,
Speaker 2: and then there's all these signs you can't bring your
Speaker 2: gun into places, so they put it in their car.
Speaker 2: And young people especially know that that's happening. And so
Speaker 2: that's why we're having forty seven percent increase in property
Speaker 2: crimes specific to vehicle breaks in. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
Speaker 2: We have guns and we bring them to protect ourselves.
Speaker 2: They break in the car, steal the guns, and it
Speaker 2: causes more crime. That causes to carry it more often.
Speaker 3: So back to the you know you want me all
Speaker 3: to talk about the Chief CG. Is the Chief Cg's
Speaker 3: fault that we're having this explosion of the sun. No,
Speaker 3: it's not. Am I a huge fan of her, No,
Speaker 3: I'm not. I don't. I don't think that she's maybe
Speaker 3: the best spokesperson out there and all that stuff. She's
Speaker 3: a smart lady, she's competent lady, nice lady from all
Speaker 3: I can tell. But she's again, she's a symptom of
Speaker 3: the disease. She agreed to come here and play in
Speaker 3: the same sandbox as Irish. Rely, if they ask Scott
Speaker 3: Sloane or Dan Hills to be the police chief, I
Speaker 3: think one of my first demands, because I would I
Speaker 3: would have some demands, is, look, you got to get
Speaker 3: rid of her, and you got to tone down the
Speaker 3: CCA by like, you know, eighty five percent or something
Speaker 3: so that my copperce can go out there and do
Speaker 3: their job. If not, what's the purpose of hiring me,
Speaker 3: is your police chief, because because you know, I have
Speaker 3: things I want to do and to help make things
Speaker 3: a little bit better. But again, you know, of all
Speaker 3: the things we talked about her, I covered that's going
Speaker 3: on in this world that comes all the way down
Speaker 3: to our little bird here Cincinnati. The one I can
Speaker 3: point to the easiest to say, the county judges. You know,
Speaker 3: they're they're just terrible when they're not sentencing people, uh
Speaker 3: for for that most important crime weapons under disability that
Speaker 3: could help prevent these shootings. But even if they do
Speaker 3: start sentence them, I think we're running on running into
Speaker 3: problem because there are enough room in the inn.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the puny problem.
Speaker 3: At the state level. So it's a multi layered problem.
Speaker 3: And look, this is this is politics that the mayor.
Speaker 3: The mayor is threatening this or doing this, the managers
Speaker 3: doing this because they're starting to feel a little bit
Speaker 3: of heat from from Corey Bowman. Who who would have
Speaker 3: thought that they're republishing mayor in this day and age,
Speaker 3: heat or candidate could could you know, even even make
Speaker 3: them sweat. But that's where we're at now. I think
Speaker 3: there's a good sweat, good.
Speaker 2: Good I mean, that's you know I and sadly I
Speaker 2: you know, we need some sort of ground. So my
Speaker 2: fear is this, if Aftab winds up winning re election,
Speaker 2: and if I were to bet, i'd bet he probably
Speaker 2: wins at this point, despite the valiant effort by Corey
Speaker 2: Bowman and a lot of the great selling points that
Speaker 2: he's made.
Speaker 4: It's just it's so deeply blue.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: People complain about the legislature in Ohio being controlled by Republicans.
Speaker 2: You can't break that stranglehold, and look what they're doing. Well,
Speaker 2: the republic or the Democrats in Hamlin County are doing
Speaker 2: the same damn thing. So if you want more of
Speaker 2: the same, just keep electing the same people as the
Speaker 2: message there. But nonetheless, I just what my fear is this,
Speaker 2: this is after the election, if AFTAB wins re election,
Speaker 2: we just go back to the way things work.
Speaker 3: Well, you could almost bet on it. I mean, if
Speaker 3: they have if they have that line that down at
Speaker 3: the casino, you know, I mean, you're gonna be elbowing
Speaker 3: each other out of the way to bet that. Right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll just forget about this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with Terry or without Terry, I'm gonna put I'm
Speaker 3: gonna put my I'm going to put my chips on.
Speaker 3: Things will go back to the way they will.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I look at it, since that issue five passed
Speaker 2: two you think about the chiefs, right, and we had
Speaker 2: who was it Blackwell? Chief Jeffrey Blackwell was fired and
Speaker 2: what's about ten years ago? And then we had James Craig,
Speaker 2: who is here and then off to Detroit in less
Speaker 2: than I think eighteen months or two years ago.
Speaker 4: We we have Craig first just gotch.
Speaker 3: And and Craig Isaac was not what they were looking for, right,
Speaker 3: Craig Craig was not a woke lefty. He came in
Speaker 3: here and and the cops loved him because he did
Speaker 3: back the cops, and and and because they he was
Speaker 3: their first one they brought in. And because he was black,
Speaker 3: they weren't going to send him pack. And he left
Speaker 3: himself because he had the opportunity to go back to
Speaker 3: his childhood home at Detroit and and be the chief.
Speaker 3: So he left. But yeah, I would like to I'd
Speaker 3: like to have Chief Craig back right now with the
Speaker 3: holy stuff we got.
Speaker 2: We got Blackwell, who was you know, hostile work environment,
Speaker 2: didn't talk to the cave.
Speaker 4: It was a clown. He got out of here.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: And so now we've got this history.
Speaker 2: We had the la Chief Isaac in for a while
Speaker 2: before he retired, Uh what about three years ago? And
Speaker 2: the beat goes on and so to bring in full circle,
Speaker 2: Dan Hills, this is like Zach Taylor firing lou Ana
Speaker 2: Roumo and that guess what, The Bengals are still losing.
Speaker 3: Yes they are. That's that's good, nilogy. I I don't
Speaker 3: see anything.
Speaker 4: Is How's how the Colts doing with lou Ana Uma?
Speaker 4: Pretty good?
Speaker 3: Five five and one?
Speaker 4: Think about that?
Speaker 3: So is it how about that?
Speaker 2: Is it the head coach or is it the assistant?
Speaker 2: Is that the organization? Is it the ownership? Well, it's definitely,
Speaker 2: there's no question about that.
Speaker 3: Gain Ye. Back to our discussion. It's it's city Hall.
Speaker 3: It's their woke idea of doing things. It's they're lying
Speaker 3: in bed with the types of people like Irish Roly.
Speaker 3: So any city that does that is not going to
Speaker 3: get a police chief and allow him to uh, you know,
Speaker 3: run his or her department and and and the way
Speaker 3: they want to. Because that was when they when they
Speaker 3: were bringing Terry on, they were they were telling her
Speaker 3: she had to she had to play in the sandbox
Speaker 3: with Irish Roly, at which time, if I was the
Speaker 3: police chief, I say, now, there's no way that doesn't
Speaker 3: that that doesn't benefit my people, doesn't make my people
Speaker 3: feel any more secure and them going out and doing
Speaker 3: their work. If we're hiring somebody like this, yes, that
Speaker 3: makes sense. It's a done deal. She's getting fired, right,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't have the connections and stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm not actively involved in it like I used to be.
Speaker 3: That if we're going back to that casino again, I
Speaker 3: would say sure. I would say that they've they've made
Speaker 3: it hard for her to continue.
Speaker 4: They've also handled this horrible.
Speaker 2: I mean the fact they call her back from Denver
Speaker 2: to say, yeah, we've got a pressing issue, Well, what's
Speaker 2: the pressing issue? Isn't like you know, I wish we
Speaker 2: could have done with Aftab because as I as I recall,
Speaker 2: he went on vacation after the brawl at the end
Speaker 2: of July, and because he deserved his son and his
Speaker 2: five year old deserved. I mean, wait a minute, hold
Speaker 2: on just a second. What's what's wrong with that picture?
Speaker 4: Anyway? I know you got to go.
Speaker 2: He's Dan Horde, former FOP president of the Queen City
Speaker 2: Lodge and now in private practice, the private citizen.
Speaker 3: Dan Hill. Dan Horde.
Speaker 2: Oh, I've got Dan hard I'm sorry. I apologize. I
Speaker 2: got to I got all the Dans on today. I
Speaker 2: don't know what's got Dan Hills, Dan Horde. All right, well, Danny,
Speaker 2: all the best Dan Hills with Frontline Advisors. Thanks again, brother,
Speaker 2: you take care. Yeah, I'm thinking of football. I got
Speaker 2: Dan Hills, I got Dan Hord. I got some surrounded
Speaker 2: by Dan's around here. I don't know what's going on,
Speaker 2: Dan Horde. A little bit later in the show eleven
Speaker 2: oh seven, we'll talk Thursday night football here in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: I'm the home of the best Bengals covered seven hundred
Speaker 2: WLW Cincinnati Scott's Loan.
Speaker 4: Show seven hundred W l W.
Speaker 2: Dan Hills minutes ago with Frontline Advisors, former FOP president
Speaker 2: and the chief Thiji is waiting her day. It's like
Speaker 2: waiting to go to the executioner in a way, in
Speaker 2: a sad way for Chief Thigi, as he said, you know,
Speaker 2: she's done some good things and some things that were
Speaker 2: like questionable. Her interaction with the beat cops could have
Speaker 2: been better, could have been worse. But she is not
Speaker 2: the problem. The problem is the system. The problem is
Speaker 2: the head, The problem is the mayor, The problem is
Speaker 2: the city manager. The problem is having interlopers like Iris
Speaker 2: Rawley and others too involved with the process of law enforcement.
Speaker 2: And he mentioned Issue five, which changed the dynamic of
Speaker 2: police chiefs not only are hired, but also who they
Speaker 2: are held accountable to. And you know, when you have
Speaker 2: Chief Fiji or anyone for that matter, she is dancing
Speaker 2: to the tune of the piper. Af tabs the piper.
Speaker 2: She dances the tune. If you want the job, you
Speaker 2: got to dance the tune. And what's happening, I think
Speaker 2: is that she's simply going to fall on the sword.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 2: One may ask as to why would she be called
Speaker 2: back here on this Thursday morning from Denver to Cincinnati
Speaker 2: if they're just to tell her everything's okay. You know,
Speaker 2: when the city when and I will say this, you know,
Speaker 2: as much as people beat up the media, which has
Speaker 2: a whole other topic entirely is I agree and disse
Speaker 2: I disagree with that for different reasons as far as
Speaker 2: the bias and stuff goes here locally, and it's kind
Speaker 2: of silly, but nonetheless, someone found out about this and
Speaker 2: the word got out. The city manager's office is like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, someone leaked it out, and now we've got
Speaker 2: to answer it. And they come back and say, well,
Speaker 2: we've got some issues in the city. She has to
Speaker 2: address that. It's I mean, there's nothing urgent going on.
Speaker 2: What's changed. She has to immediately address departmental matters, is
Speaker 2: what Sherlong says, Well, why didn't she address apartment these
Speaker 2: issues right after what just happened. The latest issue on
Speaker 2: Fountain Square involving the shooting at City Bird, Well it
Speaker 2: should have been done right there. But now we're dragging
Speaker 2: this thing because someone's looking for political cover. You got
Speaker 2: an election coming up, Aftabs feeling the heat. Therefore, sure
Speaker 2: Long has got to do something. And the end result is,
Speaker 2: I know, we'll fire the chief and make it look
Speaker 2: like it's her fault, when in fact, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't think the voters are that stupid. I think
Speaker 2: that you realize it's the administration and this is much
Speaker 2: like firing lu An Arumo after the Bengals had dismal
Speaker 2: seasons and starts and we got to do something, and
Speaker 2: so we fire the coordinator who goes by the way,
Speaker 2: goes to Indianapolis and they look like a playoff team.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile the Bengals are languishing. We'll find out tonight if
Speaker 2: they can turn that around. But I think it's a
Speaker 2: I think it's a fair comparison. And I know a
Speaker 2: lot is made about community activist Irish Roller. She's making
Speaker 2: over one hundred thousand dollars a year as a consultant.
Speaker 2: I've heard stories about her sitting in with police officers
Speaker 2: or coming to town troopers who are here from the
Speaker 2: state of Ohio and others and dictating the terms of
Speaker 2: how they will interact with people. We see with law
Speaker 2: enforcement officers. Now know all law enforcement officers are trained
Speaker 2: by they got to be a pot of certified. There's
Speaker 2: certain law officers go through strict training. There's Ohio Revised
Speaker 2: codeal and there's a lot of things they learned. I
Speaker 2: don't know sitting and listen some of the community tell
Speaker 2: them how they're going to handle their interaction with a
Speaker 2: subject or a suspect. I look at that and go,
Speaker 2: not quite sure. That's something you just couldn't print on
Speaker 2: a piece of paper and handle them. But to be
Speaker 2: lectured by Iris Rawley if your cop. I don't think
Speaker 2: that's going to sit well with most rank and file
Speaker 2: members of law enforcement, regardless if they're CPDU officers, SWAD officers,
Speaker 2: or highway patrol officers. But nonetheless that those are the
Speaker 2: terms in which we have engaged here politically in Hamlin County.
Speaker 2: I do think it's fair for me because I think
Speaker 2: I'm the only voice on this station that is criticized.
Speaker 2: I think rightly so the problems with a Republican controlled
Speaker 2: legislation in Columbus, and I often catch arrows as a
Speaker 2: result of that them some sort of closet liberal or something.
Speaker 2: Now I'm just tired of bs. I'm tired of people
Speaker 2: lying to me. I don't care what if you're blue
Speaker 2: or red, or black, or white, or male or female.
Speaker 2: Quit lying to me. Quit tell me this is delicious,
Speaker 2: when in turn it's poison, and I think it's fair.
Speaker 2: Then to turn around that criticism towards Hamlin County in
Speaker 2: the city of Cincinnati and say enough, damn it, it
Speaker 2: just doesn't work. I had my friend Anna all Beyond,
Speaker 2: and we disagreed about what needs to be done with
Speaker 2: these issues.
Speaker 4: She brought up that we need more gun laws.
Speaker 2: If we just had gun laws, none of this would
Speaker 2: be happening, to which I counter, that's bs. We have
Speaker 2: gun laws, they're just not being enforced. One of the
Speaker 2: most pre eminent gun laws we have, of course, is
Speaker 2: something called weapons under disability, which you often see on
Speaker 2: the docket and felony cases, meaning that if you have
Speaker 2: a felony record, it prohibits you. It precludes you from
Speaker 2: having a firearm, from looking, touching, handling, owning, possessing, controlling,
Speaker 2: or even thinking about a firearm.
Speaker 4: Can't do it.
Speaker 2: And you know, we're learning more about this individual who
Speaker 2: fired the bullets through the window a city bird, and
Speaker 2: I said, I would bet the house that this guy
Speaker 2: has priors to prohibit him from having a weapon. And
Speaker 2: guess what, here we go again. Should Ryan Hitton have
Speaker 2: been running around with the gun in his hand, No,
Speaker 2: he's he's prohibited from having that weapon. The act of
Speaker 2: stealing a car and driving around. It would prohibit him
Speaker 2: from having a weapon, let alone age and everything else.
Speaker 2: So and what else he was jammed up in. And also,
Speaker 2: you could be a law abiding citizen and defend your
Speaker 2: carry a gun even if you are eighteen. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, if you're in the act of a crime,
Speaker 2: an officer tells you to do something, you're supposed to
Speaker 2: drop the gun. Not only did not drop, but he
Speaker 2: picked it up and ran towards our round officers. He
Speaker 2: set all those circumstances up that led to his death.
Speaker 2: Ryan Hitton dead. But we look at that as well.
Speaker 2: If he would how's he getting the gun. He's getting
Speaker 2: the gun in his hand. He shouldn't. Yeah, he's under disciplined.
Speaker 2: He shouldn't have the gun. Well, the gun. There's too
Speaker 2: many guns out there, I would say. In Cincinnati, we saw,
Speaker 2: you know, the community gun thing sound straw purchasers in
Speaker 2: the past and like. And the new problem is the
Speaker 2: fact that people who live, work, and reside in Cincinnati
Speaker 2: often don't feel safe and they feel the need because
Speaker 2: maybe it's social media, maybe it's also well, these real
Speaker 2: things that are happening from time to time and too
Speaker 2: often may I add in our city that scare the
Speaker 2: hell out of people. You know, we heard testimony yesterday
Speaker 2: or maybe the day before from city council and law
Speaker 2: and public safety, which is why I had an on
Speaker 2: and she heard the testimony going on and on and
Speaker 2: on from people who said, look, I own property in Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: I own rental property. I have people that are afraid
Speaker 2: to rent my property, my income, the investment that I
Speaker 2: made in the city that you wanted me to do.
Speaker 2: You encourage me to buy properties, Say come to Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: Look at all the cool stuff we have. We have
Speaker 2: a vibrant towndown and be part of it. Isn't this great?
Speaker 2: Be part of the vibe? Awesome? And then we didn't
Speaker 2: do a damn thing about stopping the criminal element or
Speaker 2: pretending to stop the criminal and we just let them
Speaker 2: run rampant because of feelings. And so now I'm stuck
Speaker 2: with this property that I can't rent out because people
Speaker 2: won't come downtown because they're afraid. And for those who say, well,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just the ignorant people. Since these largely safe,
Speaker 2: look me personally, I'll go I'll go downtown. There's certain
Speaker 2: neighborhoods and times I won't go out, but I will.
Speaker 2: But that's not everybody. So the fact you think downtown's
Speaker 2: perfectly safe and this is just a bunch of you know,
Speaker 2: made up stuff to talk about here on this radio station,
Speaker 2: I think you're full of it.
Speaker 4: I think you're I think that's true at all.
Speaker 2: If you have people who say, look, I can't rent,
Speaker 2: or I have a tenant that's scared.
Speaker 4: What should I do?
Speaker 2: Or you have to say, hey, listen, I live in
Speaker 2: a neighborhood, I have friends, and now they're moving out
Speaker 2: because of this and they're done with it. What if
Speaker 2: we spent all this time and effort in development and
Speaker 2: learning businesses in and tax incentives and street cars and
Speaker 2: all that other stuff that we've done, What the hell
Speaker 2: is the point of that if it's come down to this,
Speaker 2: And so saying that, you know, we just we know
Speaker 2: people coming downtown now they're scared to death, and so
Speaker 2: now they feel the need to have to carry a
Speaker 2: gun with them in case they may need it because
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe they're caught up in what happened
Speaker 2: at City Bird, or they're driving down the street and
Speaker 2: there's two idiots shooting each other. They're shooting at me,
Speaker 2: is he's shooting at the other guy in the middle
Speaker 2: of traffic and rush hour. And my job is to
Speaker 2: come home to my family. My job is to live
Speaker 2: another day. So I'm going to carry that with me. Now,
Speaker 2: I can't take it to my place of work. I
Speaker 2: can't take it here, I can't take it there, I
Speaker 2: can't take it to the Bengals game to I can't
Speaker 2: do any of that stuff. So I leave at my car.
Speaker 2: And now young people know that they break in the
Speaker 2: cars are still guns. That's what Ryan Hint was doing.
Speaker 2: And that's all because of these failed policies that, wow,
Speaker 2: we just need more laws. No, we don't need more laws.
Speaker 2: We need judges that are going to do the hard
Speaker 2: work and enforce the laws that already on the books.
Speaker 2: That if you get caught up and you're not allowed
Speaker 2: to have because of disability a weapon and you're caught
Speaker 2: with it, we're going to put you behind bars for
Speaker 2: a long time. Now that mean we need more prisons,
Speaker 2: And maybe that means we know the people who aren't
Speaker 2: rising the level of those crimes, maybe we need to
Speaker 2: make space with them. That's certainly it's been discussed. It's
Speaker 2: been done. It's a possibility. But guess what, it's got
Speaker 2: to stop with people who pick up guns and carry
Speaker 2: them around and use them to settle arguments. We cannot
Speaker 2: have that at all. That sort of like Terry C.
Speaker 2: Jow will fall on one hundred percent. And so I
Speaker 2: disagree that it's all this as well, But I think
Speaker 2: you also have to look at a relative to downtown
Speaker 2: and relative to Cincinnati, the mindset that's permeating our leadership
Speaker 2: and the administration when it comes to who's making the decisions.
Speaker 2: And you know, Aftab got elected because he's a handsome,
Speaker 2: decent looking, well spoken Asian man. I guess, multiple descents whatever.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what we're looking for in the progressive community. Like, Okay,
Speaker 2: he's a guy. He was in charge of license plates
Speaker 2: one day and now he'sa all of a sudden, Okay,
Speaker 2: now he's the next mayor of the city, says this
Speaker 2: is going to be great. Everything's good, everything feels good.
Speaker 2: And it's not just it started before him. But the
Speaker 2: problem with progressive policies are they're too soft on crime.
Speaker 2: And that is one thing Democrats nationwide cannot get away from.
Speaker 2: And that's what is making Trump Trump right now. If
Speaker 2: you if you don't like Trump, well then you got
Speaker 2: to look at your own policies and how we the
Speaker 2: Democrats are on that, and how progressive policies are hurting
Speaker 2: urban cities. You know, we have ice, we have National Guard.
Speaker 2: He's exploiting that, certainly for political reasons to make a point.
Speaker 2: But the truth still remains is these are largely dangerous
Speaker 2: areas to be in and Cincinnati is fast becoming. If
Speaker 2: we're not there already one of those areas, what does
Speaker 2: it say that here we are?
Speaker 4: We have Thursday night football in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: We got the Steelers in town, we got people from Pittsburgh,
Speaker 2: people from Cincinnati, good natured football. Hopefully the Bengals pull
Speaker 2: this thing off tonight. We'll find out. I've got Dan
Speaker 2: Hord at eleven oh seven to talk about this. But
Speaker 2: we're supposed to having a good time, and you know what,
Speaker 2: how many people are gonna be looking up their shoulder
Speaker 2: a little bit, and how many people are coming in
Speaker 2: from Pennsylvania or even local Steeler fans go downtown to
Speaker 2: the game and go, what the hell these guys doing around? Well,
Speaker 2: these swat offers are doing around. This is I've been
Speaker 2: to games before primetime games. In my in Pittsburgh, we
Speaker 2: don't have cops staying around with automatic weapons on Fountain
Speaker 2: Square and are gathering places. I mean, we have cops,
Speaker 2: but don't look like this. And this is again what
Speaker 2: we got. So I have a eeking suspicion I might
Speaker 2: be wrong. I think Corey Bowman has made some fine points,
Speaker 2: but is deep blue as Cincinnati is. I see AFTAB
Speaker 2: winning again, and I might be wrong. I've been wrong
Speaker 2: in the past a lot of me when I'm wrong,
Speaker 2: but I think it's again. It's here's the problems. People
Speaker 2: are just so used to and wanting folks like this
Speaker 2: to run things. And my fear is that Okay gets
Speaker 2: re elected, is all this just going to go way?
Speaker 2: After November? Do we just go back to going Okay,
Speaker 2: I got another way, we got reelected. Great, all this
Speaker 2: stuff we're doing with the new chief in that was
Speaker 2: just to get elected. And then we go back and
Speaker 2: we'll have more of these stupid policies. Yeah, we need
Speaker 2: more gun laws. It's the fault of the Republicans, and
Speaker 2: we need to get tougher on guns. And meanwhile, we've
Speaker 2: got judges that just simply let people out and you
Speaker 2: promised you're not going to do this again.
Speaker 4: We just had a guy do right.
Speaker 3: He was.
Speaker 2: He literally left court and the judge said, here's what
Speaker 2: you need. Judge Hathaway said, here's what you need to do.
Speaker 2: You need to report your probation officer. You need to
Speaker 2: get a job. You did it anyway, not killing people.
Speaker 2: So if that's the attitude we have relatives to probation
Speaker 2: and relative to locking people up and incarcerating them because
Speaker 2: they have a gun under disability, whether it's Sir Ryan
Speaker 2: Hinton or anyone else, I just have a fear that
Speaker 2: that those policies are going to wind up the things
Speaker 2: we're doing right now. Just simply get reelected and once
Speaker 2: the election's over, the hell with it. Because we've seen
Speaker 2: this before. We you know, to bring it full circle,
Speaker 2: point it back at state Republicans. We had initiatives on
Speaker 2: the ballot for marijuana and pro choice and things like
Speaker 2: and now the legends goes, Okay, elections over. Guess we're
Speaker 2: going to undo all we're trying to do that stuff.
Speaker 2: And that's the will of the people speaking right, They're
Speaker 2: sixty percent of the people say yes or no to something.
Speaker 2: I think that's pretty decisive. You ought to bide by
Speaker 2: their wishes, but we try to find ways to poke
Speaker 2: holes in that. And is it any different? And I
Speaker 2: can argue it's far worse what's happening in downtown Cincinnati
Speaker 2: because it's not gonna be long before innocent people die.
Speaker 2: You know, we had Patrick Herringer. That was a wake
Speaker 2: up call for a lot of folks regarding this issue.
Speaker 2: But you know, some innocent person could have easily gotten
Speaker 2: shot in the last two gun battles on punt Fountain
Speaker 2: Square that we're talking about here, and it's only a
Speaker 2: matter of time before it happens again. And you know,
Speaker 2: I look at the beatdown in downtown Cincinnati. Why do
Speaker 2: you think people are so emboldened as that they can
Speaker 2: do whatever the hell they want when they want. It's
Speaker 2: because of the failure of leadership at the highest levels
Speaker 2: in the city. And guess what if we just keep
Speaker 2: electing the same people or versions of the same people,
Speaker 2: you get the same thing. I'm a big proponent of
Speaker 2: divided government. The more divided government is, the less crap
Speaker 2: like this they can do, whether it's local, state, or federal.
Speaker 2: On the way, Jason Philibon is here speaking of Ryan
Speaker 2: hit as Dad. Rodney Hinton Junior was in court and
Speaker 2: a court appointed psychiatrist examined Rodney Hinton and said, well,
Speaker 2: there's definitely a component of insanity here. Rodney Hinton Junior,
Speaker 2: who brutally, deliberately stalked and murdered an innocent chef's deputy
Speaker 2: by the name of Larry Henderson, is now trying to
Speaker 2: get out of just punishment. How does that whole thing
Speaker 2: work with not guilty reason of insanity or in this case,
Speaker 2: just saying, hey, we're trying to work it down so
Speaker 2: this guy gets a life and not death. He didn't
Speaker 2: give that opportunity to Larry Henderson, that's for damn sure.
Speaker 2: Should he get it, we'll talk to We'll talk to
Speaker 2: a Jason Phillibaum, attorney at law. Next on the Scot
Speaker 2: Saline Show on seven hundred W Weldon, do you want
Speaker 2: to Rodney Hinton Junior is accused of killing Hemlin County
Speaker 2: Sheriff Deputy Larry Henderson.
Speaker 4: May second.
Speaker 2: He this is the guy who took his car, drove
Speaker 2: around looking for a deputy to run over, and runs
Speaker 2: over a deputy Henderson. And all Henderson was doing is
Speaker 2: working a traffic until operating a light manually. At UC's
Speaker 2: graduation ceremony a few hours earlier, Hinton and his family
Speaker 2: got to look at body camera video of his eighteen
Speaker 2: ye old son Ryan being fatally shot by Cincinnati Palasi.
Speaker 2: Video we've subsequently seen and said that kid had it coming,
Speaker 2: running with a gun in his hand, dropping at picking
Speaker 2: back up, not complying with law enforcement, and Rodney hinting
Speaker 2: to show the level of sociopath that he and maybe
Speaker 2: his son was, decided that his son was completely innocent
Speaker 2: and we're going to have a shooting space as such.
Speaker 2: By the way, the Hinton family is still trying to
Speaker 2: file lawsuits and make this a case against CPD and
Speaker 2: officers and saying that justice was not served in the
Speaker 2: shooting of the sun even though this kid is running
Speaker 2: around with a gun, stealing cars and committing violent crimes
Speaker 2: with impunity. That's not the kind of people we need
Speaker 2: on the street. And you know that that pervasive attitude
Speaker 2: that permeates in the community is not trickled up to
Speaker 2: the mayor's office. But nonetheless, yesterday a court appointed forensic
Speaker 2: psychologist found Rodney Hinton Junior, the dad, suffering from serious
Speaker 2: mental illness making him ineligible for the death pedal. The
Speaker 2: question is is he going to avoid punishment. We're going
Speaker 2: with the not guilty by reason of an insanity plea
Speaker 2: And this is just a preliminary by the way, this
Speaker 2: is a court appointed psychiatrist who was doing this and
Speaker 2: there's a long way to go and we'll find out
Speaker 2: if and when Rodney Hinton and will face the death penalty.
Speaker 2: Jason Philibaum, attorney at law, former prosecutor, and Butler County
Speaker 2: defense attorney, now joins the show.
Speaker 4: Jason, how you been good morning?
Speaker 3: Doing well? Thank you?
Speaker 2: All right, We've had this discussion before about NGRI. But
Speaker 2: so the diagnosis for Hinton is bipolar disorder psychosis. A
Speaker 2: psychologist concluded that mental illnesses impacted impaired him to his
Speaker 2: ability to exercise rational judgment at the time of his offense.
Speaker 2: His attorney a very good attorney, and Clyde Bennett argues
Speaker 2: that hit and didn't understand the wrongfulness of his conduct.
Speaker 2: But I look at this and go, I know prosecutors
Speaker 2: are going to look at a second opinion.
Speaker 4: This is very early in the game.
Speaker 2: But when you drive around and you stalk your prey,
Speaker 2: that tells me that you are of right mind, you
Speaker 2: know exactly what you're doing. This is a really difficult
Speaker 2: approach that they're using here, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think there's two things to consider.
Speaker 5: The first thing is to consider or whether or not
Speaker 5: he should be not guilty because of insanity, and that's
Speaker 5: a very specific definition of whether he knew essentially the
Speaker 5: wrongfulness of his action. The second question, which is what
Speaker 5: they were kind of discussing yesterday, is whether he should
Speaker 5: be executed because of his mental health disorder.
Speaker 3: I mean, the one thing I always.
Speaker 5: Tell jury's and I've always told people, is people that
Speaker 5: commit crimes aren't mentally normal. I mean that's you know,
Speaker 5: everyone that essentially commits a violent crime like that has
Speaker 5: some issue going on.
Speaker 3: The question is is the issue the mental.
Speaker 5: Health so severe that it is prohibited, you.
Speaker 3: Know, to have the state use a death penalty.
Speaker 5: And I think that's what they're looking at right now.
Speaker 5: And Clyde, he does do a good job in this case.
Speaker 5: He's essentially attacking it from two different angles. He's saying,
Speaker 5: my client's not guilty because he's insane, and if you
Speaker 5: find him to be saying, then you can't put him
Speaker 5: to death because his mental health is so severe that
Speaker 5: that's not applicable to him.
Speaker 2: Right the law Jason Philibeum, believe, correct, my wrong, you're
Speaker 2: the attorney. But are there are four specific mental illnesses
Speaker 2: that make defendants death penalty and eligible? And so how
Speaker 2: does the law define significantly impaired to exercise rational judgment
Speaker 2: which is what's going on here, and the evidentiary standard
Speaker 2: prosecutors have to the burden they have to overcome to
Speaker 2: still pursue the death penalty.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the answer to that is probably a good law
Speaker 5: school class. But in shorts, I think it was House
Speaker 5: Bill one thirty six that essentially prohibits the death penalty
Speaker 5: for those that were diagnosed with schizophrenia, I think schizophrenic disorder,
Speaker 5: bipolar disorder, and delusional disorder. But again, it has to
Speaker 5: be something that's significant. You know, anyone that's abused drugs
Speaker 5: usually will have some type of diagnosis with bipolar. But
Speaker 5: if it's not significant enough to impair and essentially effect
Speaker 5: their everyday life to the extent that you know, that's
Speaker 5: that's something I think would be a factual decision that
Speaker 5: has to be determined.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so what you're going to what you're.
Speaker 5: Going to have from a preliminary standpoint is one psychologist
Speaker 5: basically said, yes, it's severe enough that he shouldn't be
Speaker 5: facing the death penalty. At least that's what we kind
Speaker 5: of got from the court yesterday. And then the state's
Speaker 5: going to get a second opinion, which happens all the time,
Speaker 5: this is not abnormal. And if that doctor says it's not,
Speaker 5: then I think you're.
Speaker 3: Going to say that.
Speaker 5: The judge is going to say, let the jury decide that,
Speaker 5: and I'll explain that in a minute. But if the
Speaker 5: second opinion comes back and says though it's severe, then
Speaker 5: all of a sudden, you've got two opinions, one from
Speaker 5: the defense, one from the state, and they both say
Speaker 5: it's severe.
Speaker 3: Then you're going to have the situation where.
Speaker 5: The state may take the death penalty off the table themselves.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, And there's a high bars there should be for
Speaker 2: an insanity defense, because mental illness alone that doesn't mean
Speaker 2: legal insanity.
Speaker 4: There's a distinction.
Speaker 2: There's what you're saying, and so many people buy Paul
Speaker 2: disordered psychosis can distinguish right from wrong. I don't know
Speaker 2: if i'm the prosecutor, I'm look at this going, well,
Speaker 2: he knows how to the rational behavior would be. He
Speaker 2: gets in a vehicle, he operates a motor vehicle, presumably
Speaker 2: abides by most of the traffic laws. Anyway, on that date,
Speaker 2: he's looking for a target. He's out there basically stalking,
Speaker 2: looking for law enforcement officer to kill, maybe even a
Speaker 2: white law enforcement officer. The statements and what statements he
Speaker 2: made before during because I guess when they're showing him
Speaker 2: the video, he just kind of stormed out. The family
Speaker 2: tried to calm him down. He was just angry. But
Speaker 2: a lot of people commit crimes when they're angry. Look
Speaker 2: at the shootings at Fountain Square. That's probably about an anger,
Speaker 2: street beef stuff like that doesn't mean a mental mental
Speaker 2: illness or incompetency, you know. And at the time he
Speaker 2: took off, he struck him and they caught him later.
Speaker 2: And I think all that adds in the fact that
Speaker 2: you know, he made some sound decisions and was of
Speaker 2: the right mind that led up to the death of Ederson.
Speaker 2: I don't know how a jury wouldn't look at that.
Speaker 5: And those are exactly the points the prosecutor is going
Speaker 5: to argue if insanity is allowed to pursue, and you know,
Speaker 5: he has to have a psychologist that also supports the
Speaker 5: insanity defense. And the one interesting thing about that is
Speaker 5: we we.
Speaker 3: Can't see what these reports say.
Speaker 5: The judge specifically scolded or warned or whatever. Both parties
Speaker 5: that they do not want this report being leaked, so
Speaker 5: we don't know what's in the report.
Speaker 3: We don't know exactly what was said.
Speaker 5: We can surmise a little bit from the arguments, but
Speaker 5: at the end of the day, the prosecutor is going
Speaker 5: to argue, exactly what you just did. This was a
Speaker 5: calculated This was a planned This was premeditated at least
Speaker 5: by an hour or two if not, you know, a
Speaker 5: few minutes. It doesn't have to be like a year
Speaker 5: long pre meditate. It's he planned it, even if it
Speaker 5: was in a short plan. So I think all of
Speaker 5: those arguments are what the state's going to argue that
Speaker 5: he is. He is guilty for what he did, and
Speaker 5: insanity does and apply. Now if he's found guilty, then
Speaker 5: in a death penalty phase, you then have a sentencing phase.
Speaker 5: It's this completely separate hearing. So jury goes back and
Speaker 5: just determines is he guilty or not, and if they
Speaker 5: find him guilty. Then the defense and the state get
Speaker 5: together again and they present more evidence, and at this point,
Speaker 5: the state has a burden to prove that the death
Speaker 5: penalty is applicable in this case. And that's where you
Speaker 5: get a lot of mitigation from the defense. You know,
Speaker 5: oh he's a great guy, or oh he has these
Speaker 5: mental illness or get a bad leg, whatever. And that's
Speaker 5: where these reports really will come into play, because if
Speaker 5: they can convince a jury that he has this serious
Speaker 5: illness that prohibits the death penalty, then the jury won't
Speaker 5: be able to give the death penalty. And what's interesting
Speaker 5: is there's three off ramps for Clyde's clients. The first
Speaker 5: is if both reports come back, maybe the state takes
Speaker 5: it off or the judge said I'm not going to
Speaker 5: allow it. What's more likely is you're going to have
Speaker 5: competing experts and so the judge is going to let
Speaker 5: the jury decide, and then the jury is going to
Speaker 5: essentially make their decision if they find the death penalty.
Speaker 5: Then the third off ramp will be an appellate court
Speaker 5: who will look at all the evidence and determine and
Speaker 5: that's where we might see this development. The appellate court.
Speaker 5: So there's a lot of sort of moving parts, but
Speaker 5: it really will come down to what this next expert says.
Speaker 4: Gotcha. He is a defense attorney.
Speaker 2: Jason Phillibaum, our legal expert on The Sloan Show talking
Speaker 2: about Rodney Hitton Junior. I know we got the Terry
Speaker 2: Thigi stuff. We're talking about that today as well, but
Speaker 2: this is an important story because he's accused of killing
Speaker 2: Deputy Larry Henderson. I remember that after his son was
Speaker 2: out with a gun and got shot by Cincinnati police officers.
Speaker 2: I showed them the video of the shoot a go
Speaker 2: was ruled a deemed a good shooting on the part
Speaker 2: of the police officers because the sun was running around
Speaker 2: with a gun. Stolen car. Eighteen year old Ryan Hidden
Speaker 2: was legally shot by Cincinnati police. He loses his mind,
Speaker 2: apparently and goes and kills for no reason Deputy Larry
Speaker 2: Henderson as quote unquote revenge, And now they're trying to
Speaker 2: play the well, he had bipolar disorder and psychosis, and
Speaker 2: safe to say most people have some mental illness in
Speaker 2: their life. I mean, everyone thinks they're normal. The rest
Speaker 2: of the world is fed up, but that's not the case,
Speaker 2: we're all flawed in some way, shape or form. I
Speaker 2: think what he did is beyond the effect of psychosis
Speaker 2: or bipolar disorder. I mean, clearly he knew what he
Speaker 2: was doing when he murdered Larry Henderson and now is
Speaker 2: just trying to evade his due punishment in this case.
Speaker 2: When a court appointed forensic psychologists to testify that he's
Speaker 2: got these illnesses, Jason, Okay, So he testifies, prosecutors will
Speaker 2: get a second opinion and make contrabute the first How
Speaker 2: does the judge sort this all out?
Speaker 5: Well, it's difficult, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 5: there's some judges that will try to impose their own
Speaker 5: sort of decision on the case. And we've talked about that.
Speaker 5: We kind of, you know, want to judge that's going
Speaker 5: to more interpret the law, not necessarily make the law.
Speaker 5: So some judges may look at this and say, I'm
Speaker 5: taking the death penalty off the table. I have enough
Speaker 5: to do it because this expert says, So, I think
Speaker 5: what you're going to see more judges do is take
Speaker 5: a look at it, and if it's a factual issue,
Speaker 5: I'm going to let the jury decide it. Because that's
Speaker 5: essentially what our society is based on is let the
Speaker 5: jury decide, you know, the factual issues.
Speaker 3: Now, if it's clear.
Speaker 5: Cut, then I think the judge has a duty then
Speaker 5: to take the death penalty off the table. So if
Speaker 5: every expert says this is so severe that the death
Speaker 5: penalty shouldn't apply, then I think the judge has a
Speaker 5: duty to do it. But if you have competing experts.
Speaker 5: One says he is one says he's got issues, but
Speaker 5: not to the point that the death penalty should be excluded,
Speaker 5: then I think most judges are going to say, I'm
Speaker 5: going to let the jury decide this. That way, you know,
Speaker 5: there's a fair trial, and jury decides, and then they're
Speaker 5: selling a pellet court that's going to look at it
Speaker 5: again and determine whether or not, you know, the judge
Speaker 5: made the right decision, whether the jury made the right decision,
Speaker 5: and so on. So I think the best thing to
Speaker 5: do is let it go through the process. But when
Speaker 5: a judge sort of takes one side and rips away
Speaker 5: their their case, I think that's what a lot of
Speaker 5: a lot of people don't like to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jason Philibon, the idea here is that we know
Speaker 2: he's guilty. You've got in place to the scene. You've
Speaker 2: got the smoking gun, you've got the murder, you've got
Speaker 2: the deliberation, you've got the intent, you got all that stuff.
Speaker 2: There's no question about it. He's the guy and he
Speaker 2: did what he did. Uh what Clyde Bennett is trying
Speaker 2: to do in a send some wiggle room to save
Speaker 2: this guy's life.
Speaker 4: That's all this is.
Speaker 5: Right, yes, And you know what's interesting is we all
Speaker 5: get to the issue of the death penalty, like you
Speaker 5: know what happened with Charlie Kirk and.
Speaker 3: His his assassination.
Speaker 5: At some point, you know, is life in prison worse
Speaker 5: than the death penalty? But right now, that's not a
Speaker 5: decision the jury makes. That's not a decision that the
Speaker 5: judge should make or the attorney should make. That's the
Speaker 5: decision of society makes. So they look at this case individually.
Speaker 5: Does the death penalty apply? It does based on the
Speaker 5: alleged facts, and then the second question is should.
Speaker 3: The defendant get the death penalty?
Speaker 5: And all the Ohio law did was really sort of
Speaker 5: podify what the Supreme Court has already said. You can't
Speaker 5: execute the mentally ill, you can't execute minors, You can't
Speaker 5: execute you know, low IQ individuals. They and then so
Speaker 5: Ohio took it one step further and said, the mentally
Speaker 5: ill are.
Speaker 3: These four categories and we're not going to let you
Speaker 3: do that.
Speaker 5: It still comes down to a factual decision, though, about
Speaker 5: whether or not this individual meets those criteria, and I
Speaker 5: think that's what a jury should decide in this case.
Speaker 3: With that said, if a.
Speaker 5: Second opinion comes back and as clear as day that
Speaker 5: this guy's got some problems, then it's just a matter
Speaker 5: of you know, life in prison versus not And I
Speaker 5: think that's a guilty versus not guilty and like you said,
Speaker 5: that's not really in question. The question is what happens
Speaker 5: when the jury finds them guilty.
Speaker 2: In this case, does does does intent override mental illness?
Speaker 2: In that the prosecutors claim to hit and intentionally drove
Speaker 2: in to Henderson.
Speaker 4: I think that's clear that he did.
Speaker 2: But does that evidence of intentional, purposeful, wilful conduct undermine
Speaker 2: the mental illness claim.
Speaker 5: It does to some extent, But you got to think
Speaker 5: about almost every crime is intent. Imagine the guy that's
Speaker 5: hopped up on drugs and breaks into a house and
Speaker 5: then you know, gets into a fight with a homeowner
Speaker 5: and kills him.
Speaker 3: That was all intentional.
Speaker 5: But in this case, like you emphasize, which is what
Speaker 5: the prostitutes and emphasized, there was an intent to kill
Speaker 5: long before you broke into a house and stumbled across
Speaker 5: the homeowner. You know, that was sort of a secondary intent.
Speaker 5: This guy was, you know, a leisurely driving down the
Speaker 5: street looking for an officer to exact his revenge. And
Speaker 5: I think that's what's going to like you said, probably
Speaker 5: err on the side of Hey, this person was sane
Speaker 5: enough to coordinate a plan of attack to kill this
Speaker 5: individual standing on the side of the road. And that's
Speaker 5: going to go against whether or not the psychosis is
Speaker 5: so bad that it should.
Speaker 3: Take the death penalty off the table.
Speaker 2: Now in the hitting case, how common is it for
Speaker 2: faces way, for what I believe aggravated murder is what
Speaker 2: the charges to successfully use mental illness as a defense here,
Speaker 2: it's pretty rare that they succeed.
Speaker 5: Well, it's it's rare in the guilt phase, but it's
Speaker 5: actually not that. I mean, it's more common in the
Speaker 5: you know, I've had a death penalty cases where I
Speaker 5: remember one of my first death penalty cases, the guy
Speaker 5: stabbed the guy twenty three times, and we argue to
Speaker 5: the jury that, you know, he should face the death
Speaker 5: penalty because it was a burglary and a murder, and
Speaker 5: the jury came back and found life. And the reason
Speaker 5: was is, you know, the guy had a bad childhood,
Speaker 5: he had some mental health issues, he was depressed, he
Speaker 5: was anxious, and they felt that was enough to you know,
Speaker 5: take off the death penalty and just do life in prison.
Speaker 5: And I think because it has to be a unanimous decision.
Speaker 5: So what happens is there's twelve jurors and ten are
Speaker 5: saying death and two are saying no this. You know,
Speaker 5: there's two reasons why he should maybe not get death.
Speaker 5: And then after two days of deliberation, the jury comes
Speaker 5: back with life because they're thinking, hey, life is worse
Speaker 5: than death. I mean, I'm if I have to spend
Speaker 5: the rest of my life in prison.
Speaker 3: That's awful.
Speaker 5: I think that's why that's why defense attorneys will argue,
Speaker 5: and sometimes very successfully, that mental health is a reason
Speaker 5: why you should put this person in prison for life
Speaker 5: instead of death.
Speaker 2: All right, Jason Phillibum. Finally, December first, I believe is
Speaker 2: the next hearing. It's insignificant one. And the determination there
Speaker 2: is going to be whether a judge finds hitting death
Speaker 2: penalty and eligible or eligible if indeed that happens December first,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure we'll talk around, then can prosecute just
Speaker 2: appeal that decision for the trial and what's going to
Speaker 2: happen December first and quickly thereafter.
Speaker 3: That's a good question.
Speaker 5: And you know, typically a prosecutor cannot appeal that decision
Speaker 5: prior to the trial, so the prosecutors have very limited
Speaker 5: appellate rights. It's usually after the fact, and if someone
Speaker 5: has found not guilty, then you know they can have
Speaker 5: an appeal that argues law, but it's not going to
Speaker 5: change the verdict. So in this particular case, I think
Speaker 5: they're probably going to be stuck with whatever the judge decides.
Speaker 5: I mean, they could appeal after the fact, that it's
Speaker 5: not going to change this case. So it's really going
Speaker 5: to come down to what December happens. Is what their
Speaker 5: expert says. If they're expert, and I would expect their
Speaker 5: expert comes back and just has a different opinion, then
Speaker 5: I would expect the judge to say, let us go
Speaker 5: to trial and decide.
Speaker 3: But again, if it's a.
Speaker 5: Situation where you know, it's clear that he has such
Speaker 5: a mental health issue that qualifies under this house build
Speaker 5: then and you may see the prosecutor withdraw.
Speaker 3: It to himself.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 2: He is Jason PHILIBAUMA attorney at law, former a prosecutor,
Speaker 2: now in private practice, explaining what the path forward is
Speaker 2: here Rodney Hinton Junior in his insanity play, a court
Speaker 2: ordered psychologist concluded he's got mental health illness. It's significantly
Speaker 2: impaired his ability to exercise rational judgment when he decided
Speaker 2: to murder and stalk and kill Larry Henderson, which I
Speaker 2: think if I were in a jury, I disagree with that.
Speaker 2: But we'll find out with the defense or the I
Speaker 2: guess the prosecutors move now and then that hearing on
Speaker 2: December first, and all the little sorts out. But he
Speaker 2: is Jason Philipon. Thanks again for the sharp legal insight
Speaker 2: as always, buddy, appreciate you.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: All right, We move on next up on the Scotslan
Speaker 2: Show on seven hundred W to of course, we start
Speaker 2: with the news updates about four or five minutes away,
Speaker 2: and later on we'll get to Dan Hort Thursday Night Football.
Speaker 2: Something a little lighter for us today, Cincinnati Pittsburgh and
Speaker 2: all closer than that the state of Terry Thiji as
Speaker 2: we await the verdict on her career future, whether and
Speaker 2: you know, again, I don't think it matters if it's
Speaker 2: Thiji or it's and Chief anybody else for that matter.
Speaker 2: In a long way to people been around and again
Speaker 2: it is the piper that's calling the tune, and the
Speaker 2: piper would be after purefault manager shere along. I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe Iris rawling a bunch of others, but Fiji is
Speaker 2: like kind of like when Zach Taylor fired lou Ana
Speaker 2: Arrumo last season, and that is it really lou Anaruma
Speaker 2: because he took his show to Indianapolis and they're five
Speaker 2: and one?
Speaker 4: So is it really.
Speaker 2: The the person who's subject to the rule or the
Speaker 2: rulemakers themselves?
Speaker 4: You decide? Seven hundred W Wild up Scott Floan show.
Speaker 2: This is a seven hundred W wild who just ran
Speaker 2: that story about the represent ofve Dave Taylor Claremont County
Speaker 2: And I guess someone whose office had a.
Speaker 4: Flag.
Speaker 2: I didn't describe it as on a blog the substack
Speaker 2: called rooster. When I give a credit there to the
Speaker 2: person who broke the story, but somebody's a conference calling
Speaker 2: the background. He's not on American flag and the middle bars,
Speaker 2: I don't know how to describe this. Middle bars are
Speaker 2: the red stripes across the flag are altered into fashion
Speaker 2: to make it look like a swastik in the middle
Speaker 2: of it, and comparatively to a Nazi swastika, which is
Speaker 2: kind of angle this is upright.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's just a weird, weird story that's breaking right now.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a photo manipulation, if it's
Speaker 2: a real thing. But reportedly Capital the police have gone
Speaker 2: and actually sees the flag itself, and at some point.
Speaker 4: We'll have an update on that investigation.
Speaker 2: I've reached out to Representative Taylor, and I'm sure at
Speaker 2: some point I'll come on and talk about it as
Speaker 2: they continue the investigation. So we have that going on
Speaker 2: this morning as well. Every time one of these.
Speaker 4: Stories break, I go.
Speaker 2: You think, maybe the price, you know, and I hate
Speaker 2: to say it's gonna come out wrong. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of the stuff I say oftentimes, but I'll just blurt
Speaker 2: it out there. You think maybe some of these boosters
Speaker 2: programs and our towns, villages and hamlets that maybe just
Speaker 2: got too much money. Not to blame the victim here
Speaker 2: at all. We have a couple of stories that are
Speaker 2: percolating right now. Dearborn County. Dearborn got forty six year
Speaker 2: old president of a civics club in a small town
Speaker 2: Dearborn County's charge of the felony for stealing over well,
Speaker 2: it was like one hundred thousand dollars still fifty grand
Speaker 2: between twenty eighteen and twenty twenty five kind of bled
Speaker 2: them a little bit, but the amount is actually higher
Speaker 2: than that. And now he's in hot water because this
Speaker 2: small town civics club, he was using it to go
Speaker 2: to casinos and trips and cruises and everything else. In Mason,
Speaker 2: a forty four year old woman who's convicted for theft
Speaker 2: I think a Flony five and telecommunications fraud. She's stoled
Speaker 2: over six thousand dollars from the Mason Football Boosters account
Speaker 2: to pay personal credit card expenses. She was the head
Speaker 2: of the Mason Cheer Boosters group, so she had some
Speaker 2: access to the football Boosters I guess doing them some help.
Speaker 2: But then they said, well, wait a minute, she's not
Speaker 2: even with the Football Boosters, and yet she got six
Speaker 2: thousand dollars. Let's check out the Mason cheer Boosters account
Speaker 2: and there they found that she's stole almost thirty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars from that account. Now people hear that, I hear
Speaker 2: that and go, what is wrong with you? You're stealing
Speaker 2: from kids, them from civic organizations. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: the other part of me is, and this is not
Speaker 2: the first time that's happened. Is this happens rather frequently
Speaker 2: if you follow it. And the amount of money that's
Speaker 2: being grifted here is it's not the tenas what's a
Speaker 2: lot of money? You know, specifically, I look at the
Speaker 2: Mason one, which is close to home for me, Okay,
Speaker 2: six thousand from the football, thirty thousand dollars from the
Speaker 2: cheer Boosters, and loo than some of these accounts, and
Speaker 2: they're in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And one
Speaker 2: I think legitimately may ask is, well, you know, why
Speaker 2: are you stealing the money? Because I think they probably
Speaker 2: see it as a victimist crime. They probably go, well,
Speaker 2: you know, I deserve it because I volunteer. I do
Speaker 2: the same reason, the same excuse that I there's a
Speaker 2: psychological term for this and and bother looking that.
Speaker 4: Up, I'll just spurt this.
Speaker 2: But where we're like, you know, pastors will skim money,
Speaker 2: or they'll involve in, you know, extra marital affairs. All
Speaker 2: the stuff that they preach against doing, they'll do themselves.
Speaker 2: There's a sense of entitle there. It's like, well, I
Speaker 2: work hard, and I'm good in all these other lives
Speaker 2: and improving other lives and other charities and things I do,
Speaker 2: and so I'm allowed this deliance, I think is the
Speaker 2: that's how you describe. It's kind of like for the
Speaker 2: rest of us would be hey, you know, I ate
Speaker 2: right and exercised, I did all this stuff that I did.
Speaker 2: You know what, I deserve to eat an entire pizza.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like the same mentellity. I think I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be wrong about that. But in both cases, and specifically,
Speaker 2: I mean you're sitting there go like well yeah times,
Speaker 2: or or like there's just stuff I want that I
Speaker 2: can't afford because the decisions I made, or because of
Speaker 2: things that happened in my life, or combination of both,
Speaker 2: which is true for all of us. I mean, hell,
Speaker 2: I would love to go buy a you know, a Lamborghini,
Speaker 2: but scotts Loan's not buying a Lamborghini anytime soon Afterdamn sure,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna continue to driving the old truck.
Speaker 4: The same for.
Speaker 2: You, So we don't go and do those things because
Speaker 2: I really don't. I can't do any more prison time personally,
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't be down. I just I've been there,
Speaker 2: I've done that. I'm not going back to prison. And
Speaker 2: you probably think the same way, like, yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: want to be I don't want to throw everything away.
Speaker 2: I've worked for my entire life. I'm good, So I
Speaker 2: guess I won't get that Lamborghini or that shiny new thing.
Speaker 2: Some people can't stay stay out of control those urges.
Speaker 2: But I also look at it and go, how much
Speaker 2: money do you actually need for high school and middle
Speaker 2: school cheerleaders? And I know it's going to come off
Speaker 2: as victim bliming, and I'm trying not to do that,
Speaker 2: but for the life of me, I can't figure out
Speaker 2: why you need that much money. I know there's travel,
Speaker 2: and there's uniforms and expenses, and really is there or
Speaker 2: is it just you make that up and go, yeah, well,
Speaker 2: we got all these things.
Speaker 4: We need to do.
Speaker 2: Do you really need to have home and away uniforms
Speaker 2: and travel and have fireworks at a touchdown in middle school?
Speaker 2: And you really don't, No, you don't. But we've gotten
Speaker 2: away from that in America. And that's probably true for
Speaker 2: the industry. It's created. As you know, we have kids
Speaker 2: that are five six seven having personal trainers and coaches.
Speaker 4: Five sixty seven.
Speaker 2: You know, when we're five six seven, we barely keep
Speaker 2: our shoes on, Like when I coached my son's little
Speaker 2: league team when he's not very athletic. Admittedly he doesn't
Speaker 2: like it. We tried, we tried soccer, we tried t ball,
Speaker 2: we tried all that stuff, and yeah, at that age,
Speaker 2: you're lucky if you can get them to keep their
Speaker 2: glove and shoes on, let alone practice the art of
Speaker 2: a double play.
Speaker 4: It's not happening.
Speaker 2: And so we've got all this invested because when our
Speaker 2: kids would be successful athletes and we prop them up
Speaker 2: and athlete of the week and athlete this, and they're
Speaker 2: going to get a scholarship and probably not, but we hope.
Speaker 2: So when you know, we put so much into adults,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't surprise me there's that much money in
Speaker 2: those accounts, which is allure for some people. But the
Speaker 2: fact that people steal money's nothing new. The fact that
Speaker 2: we have one hundreds of thousands of dollars in cheerleading
Speaker 2: accounts and boost your accounts and stuff like that. I
Speaker 2: could see that college because that's college money. But middle school,
Speaker 2: high school, I don't know, man, I don't know. But
Speaker 2: that's back on all of us, isn't it. That's on
Speaker 2: me and that's you because that's what we hold up here.
Speaker 2: This doesn't surprise me. So story up Arkansas this morning.
Speaker 2: Bear with me a second. This guy is running for sheriff.
Speaker 2: So what guy's running for sheriff in some place in Arkansas?
Speaker 2: So what the sheriff is facing second degree murder charges
Speaker 2: because now check this out, he admitted to He said, yep,
Speaker 2: I shot the guy. Sixty seven year old man was
Speaker 2: found with the sheriff the candidate's fourteen year old daughter
Speaker 2: in the candidate's car right now. I'm sorry. In the
Speaker 2: guy's name is Michael Fossil, sixty seven years old. The
Speaker 2: sheriffs named Aaron Spencer, the guy running for sheriff's Aaron Spencer.
Speaker 2: Spencer admits he shot sixty seven year old Michael Fossler,
Speaker 2: after finding Fossler with his fourteen year old daughter alone
Speaker 2: in Fossil's car. At the time, Fossler was out on
Speaker 2: bail after being arrested on accusations of sex crimes, and
Speaker 2: not just one, dozens of sex crimes involving the same
Speaker 2: fourteen year old girl. Now, if your mom, if your dad,
Speaker 2: what do you think about him running for office? He's
Speaker 2: looking at forty five years in prison and obviously would
Speaker 2: become disqualified from being sheriff. Three hundred and sixty thousand people,
Speaker 2: I said, three hundred and sixty thousand people outside a
Speaker 2: petition hoping to absolve him of his alleged crimes. And
Speaker 2: it's small, rural Arkansas. But nonetheless, the polling suggests he
Speaker 2: would win that election hands down, and he admitted to
Speaker 2: murdering a man who is facing sexual molestation charges against
Speaker 2: his daughter. I would vote for Aaron Spencer. I know
Speaker 2: what the laws are, and I know what the rules are.
Speaker 2: And maybe it's because I live in Cincinnati, Ohio, and
Speaker 2: I see what happened. I get it, like there are
Speaker 2: crimes and then there are crimes, right the Epstein stuff,
Speaker 2: I get the outrage, I get the anger that people
Speaker 2: on the right feel about what's going with the Epstein files.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, we're gonna expose it to do this. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's nothing to see here. Wait, it just went away.
Speaker 2: It didn't really go away. It's gone back back up
Speaker 2: there in the election. There's no doubt. So I get
Speaker 2: that there are crimes are just so egregious and so heinous,
Speaker 2: and even the suggestion the propriety of it.
Speaker 4: Is a hanging of fence.
Speaker 2: And so when you hear those stories and then you
Speaker 2: see what's happening to a lesser level, I'm not I
Speaker 2: wouldn't say lesser. Love of murder's pretty serious too. People
Speaker 2: shooting eachself. You realize, like, okay, vigil antie time. The
Speaker 2: dude's a vigilante and he is. The reason he would
Speaker 2: win that election is because he symbolizes the vigilantie we're
Speaker 2: looking for. We're looking and for someone to kick come
Speaker 2: in and kick ass. Remember the year old Enough, the
Speaker 2: old Charles Bronson movies back in the day, right, Vigilannie,
Speaker 2: and we've got Reacher today. It's the same thing. When
Speaker 2: there's times like this where you feel like, wow, the
Speaker 2: world's out of control. And there's dangerous people running around
Speaker 2: with impunity and no one's keeping them in check. We
Speaker 2: always have the Rise of the vigil Annie Hollywood character
Speaker 2: right and reach her. I mean kind of sort of
Speaker 2: fits that role, not like Charles Bronson did back and
Speaker 2: they day, but that's always been popular. We just need
Speaker 2: a bad ass to whoop some ass, and we just
Speaker 2: need someone go whoops some ass with the bad guys
Speaker 2: here off the record, we kind of this guy's like,
Speaker 2: you know what, he's with my daughter. He's ready charges
Speaker 2: and he's back with her again and he's on it.
Speaker 2: You probably should get shot. I think he's doing at
Speaker 2: that case, it's sixty seven, maybe doing society a favor.
Speaker 2: Now he may be I know, this is not justice. No,
Speaker 2: he should come and that's horrible. You can't say that
Speaker 2: because he should have his day in court and the
Speaker 2: whole thing. But I mean, come on, man, you don't
Speaker 2: think this guy did something. He's arrested on dozens of
Speaker 2: sex crimes against the fourteen year old who hasn't a
Speaker 2: car again. I mean, maybe you know, I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: someone going well the fourteen year old, Well, why was
Speaker 2: she in the car with him? Why aren't you watching
Speaker 2: your daughter or why was she with? Well, she's making
Speaker 2: your own decision. I'm sorry, you're fourteen year underage. You
Speaker 2: can't make those decisions. I kind of get what's going
Speaker 2: on in Arkansas there, and it's just it's again a
Speaker 2: reflection of our times. He is somewhat the anti hero.
Speaker 2: This Aaron Spencer got's commedy interesting story. I'd imagine it's
Speaker 2: probably gonna get a lot more legs. But you know,
Speaker 2: he still did, indeed murder a man and you're gonna
Speaker 2: be sheriff. And I don't know if that enables you
Speaker 2: to then go do other vigil anti type stuff. But
Speaker 2: I get where the sentiment is, like I don't know
Speaker 2: who the other candidate is, but this dude's a badass.
Speaker 2: Like you know, I'm a father of a girl, so
Speaker 2: I'm with him. Like that stuff goes on. You gotta
Speaker 2: do what you gotta do. So I don't know if
Speaker 2: I do it, but I sure respect the hell out
Speaker 2: of it. That's for sure. That's for sure that's going
Speaker 2: on in Arkansas. By the way, Arkansas, we got to
Speaker 2: get a news update, so coming up in just minutes here.
Speaker 2: Dan Horde, voice of the Bengal's going to jump in
Speaker 2: Cincinnati Pittsburgh tonight, Thursday Night Football.
Speaker 4: The eyes of the football world are.
Speaker 2: Honus here in Cincinnati, says city always looks good. Now
Speaker 2: we'll get that shot out Fountain Square, will get the
Speaker 2: shot of the Genius of Water Statue. Just disregard the
Speaker 2: guys with long guns and tactical gear on. Never mind
Speaker 2: that the city's gonna look nice tonight. Hopefully and hopefully
Speaker 2: there's no knuckleheads doing stuff that overshadow this event. Hopefully
Speaker 2: the knuckleheads on the field can figure this out and
Speaker 2: get a win for the first time since Joe Burrow
Speaker 2: went down four straight losing sarshow shirt games losing and
Speaker 2: look to break that where they win tonight against the
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh See it's gonna be tough and the icy hot
Speaker 2: Bulls we've been calling it between Joe Flacco and that
Speaker 2: guy that used to be up north that is now
Speaker 2: over in the East in Pittsburgh and Aaron Rodgers. Tonight,
Speaker 2: we'll have the game for you. Our coverage starts at
Speaker 2: at three o'clock today live broadcast Holy Grailed Banks, Home
Speaker 2: of the Best Bengals coverage seven hundred W at them.
Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American idiot?
Speaker 4: All right, Thursday night football circus is in town.
Speaker 2: Bengals, Steelers, Cincinnati, trying to stop the four game bleed
Speaker 2: and get a win. On a short week. It gets
Speaker 2: a little easier schedule wise with us. You got Jets,
Speaker 2: you got Bears before the bye, and you got to
Speaker 2: go there. Of course, back to Pittsburgh, but Ravens Bills
Speaker 2: really banged up. You think some of those players will
Speaker 2: get healthy. I not quite sure about QB one mar Jackson,
Speaker 2: but we'll see. Patriots are rolling. You got Miami, Arizona, Cleveland.
Speaker 2: So you know, at this point of the season, we're
Speaker 2: doing the math and trying to get to nine wins.
Speaker 2: But tonight, tonight feels like you can't let Pittsburgh go
Speaker 2: to five and one on That is the voice of
Speaker 2: the Bengals. That would be Dan Horde this morning on
Speaker 2: seven hundred W WELW and Dan, I was talking about
Speaker 2: you just days ago, and condolences to you. Jim Kelly Junior,
Speaker 2: your broadcast partner for many, many years, over two decades,
Speaker 2: passed away from cancer too early. You read that and went, man,
Speaker 2: I know he was sick, but I didn't know it
Speaker 2: was his time. It's condolences to you the Bearcat family.
Speaker 2: You can't say enough about how good a.
Speaker 4: Guy he was.
Speaker 3: It's heartbreaking, Sloney. Jim Kelly Junior was as good as
Speaker 3: a deats And I really am having a hard time
Speaker 3: believing I am not going to be having a light
Speaker 3: beer with him tomorrow night at a hotel bar in Stillwater, Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: I joked the other night that Jim Kelly Junior is
Speaker 3: in the hotel bar Hall of Fame. There's nothing that
Speaker 3: he liked more than having a beer in his hand,
Speaker 3: talking football with Bearcat fans, meeting the parents of our players,
Speaker 3: hanging out at tailgates, and getting fired up for the
Speaker 3: upcoming game. People love doing that with him. He loved
Speaker 3: doing it with them. He's just an awesome person and man,
Speaker 3: I'm going to miss him so much. It came way
Speaker 3: too quickly. Just a few weeks ago, he had had
Speaker 3: a surgical procedure and at that point kind of anticipated
Speaker 3: he would miss one game and then we'ld be back.
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, cancer sucks and it took his life far
Speaker 3: too soon.
Speaker 2: It takes so many good people too, And he always
Speaker 2: struck me as the Joe nusall of the Bearcats.
Speaker 3: It's a good comparison. His father, Jim Senior, started playing
Speaker 3: for UC in nineteen forty seven and served the athletic
Speaker 3: department for more than half a century as a player, coach,
Speaker 3: the administrator. Then Jim came along, played for the Bearcats coach,
Speaker 3: briefly went on to be a broadcaster for thirty five years.
Speaker 3: Between him and his dad, there was a Jim Kelly,
Speaker 3: either senior or junior, affiliated with the university for seventy
Speaker 3: eight uninterrupted years. It's just an incredible family legacy. The
Speaker 3: UC Athletic Hall of Fame is named for his dad.
Speaker 3: Jim Junior is in the Hall of Fame. They're both
Speaker 3: UC Hall of Famers. So man, he's going to be missed.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry for the loss. I mean, it's really is tragic.
Speaker 2: Let's segue to Thursday night football here in Cincinnati. Got
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh in town, and I mentioned, you know, you can't
Speaker 2: let Pittsburgh go to five and one. To me, Dan,
Speaker 2: I think you got to win the night. You got
Speaker 2: to feel like you can still control things. You got
Speaker 2: a divisional opponent in town, chance to go to three
Speaker 2: and four, two and zero in the division you know
Speaker 2: doesn't need to because you can look at the math
Speaker 2: and go, yeah, could you get to nine?
Speaker 4: Sure, but boy, it feels like a must win the
Speaker 4: night to me.
Speaker 3: Well, I know you're a Buffalo Bill's fan, Floony, so
Speaker 3: you can appreciate the great Marv Levy, one of the
Speaker 3: great coaches of all time. Marv was asked about him
Speaker 3: win game once and said the last must win was
Speaker 3: World War Two. So this doesn't necessarily qualify, but it
Speaker 3: is a pivotal game for some of the reasons that
Speaker 3: you described. You don't want Pittsburgh to run away and
Speaker 3: hide and get the five and one. Having said that,
Speaker 3: you talked about how the Bengals have an easier schedule
Speaker 3: coming up. Here's what the Steelers have coming up. The Packers, Colts, Chargers, Bills, Lions.
Speaker 3: Two of their last few games of the season are
Speaker 3: against the Ravens when Lamar should be back, So they're
Speaker 3: probably going to come back to the Pack somewhat. But
Speaker 3: the climb to catch them gets much easier if you
Speaker 3: can beat them head to head. Tonight, the Bengals would
Speaker 3: be two and zero in the division. They would have
Speaker 3: had to head win against Pittsburgh in their pocket right, must.
Speaker 4: Win, No, but pivotal game absolutely. Yeah. In Pittsburgh's one
Speaker 4: of those teams.
Speaker 2: Strikes me is, you know, I don't see them as
Speaker 2: a big playoff threat kind of team, but week to week,
Speaker 2: you know, it's one of the what kind of team
Speaker 2: are we getting this week? And they always bring game
Speaker 2: when they come to Cincinnati.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the jury is still out somewhat as
Speaker 3: to just how good they are. You look at the
Speaker 3: four wins so far. They do have two wins against
Speaker 3: teams with winning records to beat the Patriots. Patriots are
Speaker 3: two games over five hundred. They beat the Vikings. The
Speaker 3: Vikings are one game over five hundred. But in that
Speaker 3: Patriots game, New England dominated statistically, but turned it over
Speaker 3: five times, including four fumbles, and they lost all four. Now,
Speaker 3: give Pittsburgh credit for forcing some of those turnovers, but
Speaker 3: there's certainly a luck element there when you fumble it
Speaker 3: four times and it goes to the other team every time.
Speaker 3: So Pittsburgh's good. I'm not sure that they have the
Speaker 3: ceiling of a team that can go a long way
Speaker 3: in the playoffs, but they get the best quarterback play
Speaker 3: they've had in a long time out of forty one
Speaker 3: year old are.
Speaker 2: Now as we know too, health has a long way
Speaker 2: to go with the two and so last week was
Speaker 2: the talent two haves. We had the offense and defense. Again,
Speaker 2: that complimentary game the coach just talk about was absent
Speaker 2: last week in Green Bay. You know, I want to
Speaker 2: think that Joe Flacca, like the second half was, Hey,
Speaker 2: I figured it out.
Speaker 4: It took me a few it took me a half.
Speaker 4: It took me four or five drives.
Speaker 2: Okay, they got to the fourth drives, like we started
Speaker 2: to see him figure things out a little bit more
Speaker 2: and who he can depend on, who's a It takes
Speaker 2: a while to build chemistry.
Speaker 4: We know that.
Speaker 2: But this week, then if that's the truth, if we've
Speaker 2: had a strong second half last week offensively, that's got
Speaker 2: to carry over to tonight. I think he got to
Speaker 2: start with points on them. But he can't go down
Speaker 2: ten nothing like he did last week.
Speaker 3: They haven't scored a touchdown in the first half since
Speaker 3: Joe Burrow's injury, so they've been down by double digits
Speaker 3: at halftime in each of their last four games. It's
Speaker 3: really hard to dig out of those holes, particularly when
Speaker 3: you're playing good teams and I don't think Pittsburgh's great,
Speaker 3: but they're certainly good, so they can't be way behind
Speaker 3: again at halftime. I think you're right about Placo. I
Speaker 3: think he started to feel comfortable in the second half
Speaker 3: last week. He had a passer rating of one oh
Speaker 3: seven after halftime, completed seventy percent of his passes. So
Speaker 3: I think think he should be better over the course
Speaker 3: of four quarters in this game instead of like really
Speaker 3: struggling for the first two and then being really good
Speaker 3: in the last two. And he's certainly used to what
Speaker 3: he's going to see tonight. I think he's played against
Speaker 3: Pittsburgh twenty five times, including playoff games. He beat him
Speaker 3: last year while playing for the Indianapolis Colts, So there's
Speaker 3: nothing he's going to see tonight that he hasn't seen before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think too, as we saw the defense
Speaker 2: Wilton the second half. How much of that was personnel
Speaker 2: in schemes, but how much of that was the fact
Speaker 2: that they really hung around for the first half of
Speaker 2: the football game? And does that begin is that the
Speaker 2: problem the offense is getting off the field too quickly
Speaker 2: by the fourth quarter, the defense's gassed.
Speaker 4: Is it that simple?
Speaker 3: Well, that's certainly been true in some of their games
Speaker 3: this year. I didn't think that was the case as
Speaker 3: much last week because even in the first half, when
Speaker 3: the offense was terrible, the defense wasn't out there for
Speaker 3: a ridiculous long period of time. I mean, it was bad,
Speaker 3: but it wasn't like it was in some of the
Speaker 3: other games. And then in the second half the offense
Speaker 3: had some really long drives. The first drive of the
Speaker 3: second half was a seventeen play drive that should have
Speaker 3: helped the defense, but for whatever reason, the defense couldn't
Speaker 3: get a stop when they needed to in the second half.
Speaker 3: The Packers obviously had a lot to do with that.
Speaker 3: Jordan Love and that team is really good, but they
Speaker 3: need four quarters out of the defense. They've been getting
Speaker 3: two sometimes two and a half. If they haven't gotten
Speaker 3: four since Week one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get to the d in a second, because
Speaker 2: I wanted to wrap up two with tight end. Mike
Speaker 2: Aseeki's out with that peck injury. Tanner Hudson is out
Speaker 2: with a concussion. So you're two top two two, So.
Speaker 4: Are we going to see? Are you gonna see more?
Speaker 4: No Ah fan?
Speaker 2: Are they going to go to three wide? But then again,
Speaker 2: Josavas struggled. Well, how do you see the after chasing Higgins?
Speaker 2: What do you see the options have?
Speaker 3: Well, they still have three tight ends, so they've lost
Speaker 3: two that they'd defend done in the passing game, but
Speaker 3: they still have three that they're going to use tonight.
Speaker 3: Noah Fan is the best pass catcher among the three
Speaker 3: they have left through sample is the best blocker. Cam
Speaker 3: Grandy is more of a blocking TI been a receiving type,
Speaker 3: so if they throw it to the tight end, it's
Speaker 3: probably going to be noa Fan. But this team primarily
Speaker 3: is a three wide receiver, one running back, one tight
Speaker 3: end team. So yeah, Yosi Vosh had a lousy game
Speaker 3: last week, but I would expect him to be fine tonight.
Speaker 4: You get him in or what about Mitch Tinsley.
Speaker 3: Oh, Yosi Vash is the number three wide receiver. Tinsley
Speaker 3: is the number four. They'll both play, but Andrea will
Speaker 3: get more snaps.
Speaker 4: Gotcha? All right?
Speaker 2: So defensive side of the ball, Dan Horde, interesting development,
Speaker 2: Logan Wilson, you've got a captain. You got it with
Speaker 2: a green dot. He's in been in the league, what
Speaker 2: six years? I believe all of a sudden Barrett Carter
Speaker 2: is now and he's a rookie, Demetrius Night junior the
Speaker 2: other one he's a rookie, and Wilson by far, I
Speaker 2: don't think is the biggest problem on d Why why
Speaker 2: Logan Wilson.
Speaker 3: I was really surprised by that one, to tell you
Speaker 3: the truth, I didn't see it coming. I thought that
Speaker 3: Logan Wilson was playing okay, he hadn't made any big plays,
Speaker 3: but I didn't think he was egregiously bad prior to
Speaker 3: last week. But I think this goes back to the
Speaker 3: stuff that we talked about in the off season, Sony,
Speaker 3: when they signed Jamar and Tea on the same day
Speaker 3: and made their quarterback and their two wide receivers three
Speaker 3: of the highest paid players in the league. We said, Ben,
Speaker 3: the formula on defense, because it's the salary cap league
Speaker 3: will have to be younger and cheaper, and I think
Speaker 3: this is a move in that direction. They've got two
Speaker 3: linebackers that they drafted this year that they like and
Speaker 3: they want to try to develop them as quickly as possible.
Speaker 3: So I think they're willing to live with some growing
Speaker 3: growing pains and hope that Demetrius Knight and Barrett Carter
Speaker 3: can be their duel for a long time going forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I mean that that makes sense. There is
Speaker 2: wonder if there's a message in there, because you know,
Speaker 2: I'm going down a list of defensive players that are
Speaker 2: allied for so Logan Wilson is in the top few.
Speaker 2: But on the on they hear's some good news. They've
Speaker 2: got some good news. Shamar Stewart is going to play tonight.
Speaker 2: It's great to have him back because he looked pretty good.
Speaker 2: Missed the last what four games, had little ankle sprain,
Speaker 2: and I think he's gone a lot of work tonight.
Speaker 2: Because the other guy in there, Trey Hendrickson, is still questionable.
Speaker 2: We won't ultil what about six forty five, six thirty
Speaker 2: six forty five if he's even going tonight.
Speaker 3: And the fact that he didn't practice all week, well,
Speaker 3: it's a short week. The fact that he hasn't practiced
Speaker 3: and didn't play in the second half last week against
Speaker 3: Green Bay doesn't bode well. If I had to make
Speaker 3: a guess, I don't think that Trey will play tonight.
Speaker 3: I hope I'm wrong, but it's good to have Schamar back.
Speaker 3: I thought he looked awesome in week one against Cleveland.
Speaker 3: Didn't play that much in the second game before he
Speaker 3: suffered his injury, but he had a lot of wild
Speaker 3: moments at training camp and it's going to be fun
Speaker 3: to see him back out there against it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and get up to speed in that.
Speaker 2: You really hope Trey Hendrickson would be back because the man,
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what that all of a sudden, Now
Speaker 2: you got a little popy all spark there, and we
Speaker 2: need that right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Trey has played extremely well. He's got four sacks.
Speaker 3: You know. I think he's actually played the run better
Speaker 3: this year than he's ever played it before, which has
Speaker 3: been cool to see. I think the new defensive line coach,
Speaker 3: Jerry Montgomery has really worked with Trey and convinced him that,
Speaker 3: you know, you can be one of the best all
Speaker 3: around defensive ends in the NFL, not just to get
Speaker 3: a great pass rusher. And I think that trade has
Speaker 3: been really good at defending the run.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Dan Horde, Voice of the Bengals. Tonight, it is
Speaker 2: Thursday Night Football at pay Corps and the lights of
Speaker 2: the national media are here for us, and we're here
Speaker 2: for them. Bengals get going eight to fifteen tonight home
Speaker 2: the best Bengals coverage are. We kick off our live
Speaker 2: coverage at the Banks at the three o'clock today, So
Speaker 2: if you're coming down for the game, stop on buy
Speaker 2: for a cold one and some Bengals chats. So we
Speaker 2: got Schamar Stewart.
Speaker 1: That.
Speaker 2: One of the other things, and maybe it's too early
Speaker 2: to talk about this is the rumors about Trey Hendrickson
Speaker 2: possibly now going to San Francisco.
Speaker 4: It's that time of year.
Speaker 2: We have the trade deadline coming up soon and player's
Speaker 2: names are often thrown around.
Speaker 4: I mean, does that make sense?
Speaker 3: Not yet? You know, we began this by talking about
Speaker 3: how if they win tonight there right back in the hunt,
Speaker 3: and certainly that's the goal. So if they get the
Speaker 3: deadline and things, Yeah, if they get to the trade
Speaker 3: dead line and things have spiraled in a terrible direction,
Speaker 3: then you can begin talking about it. But anything being
Speaker 3: tossed out there right now, it's certainly not coming from
Speaker 3: the Bengals.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the rumors go around, but again it's up to
Speaker 2: the next couple of weeks to find out if this
Speaker 2: team can turn things around at least stop the bleed
Speaker 2: until you get Joe Burrow back. The secondary mentioned not
Speaker 2: the biggest problem in the world of Logan Wilson, Can
Speaker 2: Taylor Britt continues to get on DA's hilled and DJ
Speaker 2: Turn especially DJ Turn had a great week. They flashed
Speaker 2: as well. Aaron Rodgers gets out the ball. I think
Speaker 2: one of the quickest release times in the National Football League,
Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, like well under two point five seconds.
Speaker 4: Talk about the.
Speaker 2: Deep threats there, because they brought DK Metcalf over from
Speaker 2: the Seahawks to address that, and he has been the
Speaker 2: go to option in that pass game.
Speaker 3: He's been good. He's averaging just under nineteen yards to
Speaker 3: catch and he's really the only guy so far that
Speaker 3: Rogers has been throwing the ball down the field too.
Speaker 3: Rodgers has kind of been dinking and dunking this year.
Speaker 3: You talked about him getting the ball out of his
Speaker 3: hands quickly, and that's one of the reasons why he
Speaker 3: doesn't stretch the field like he once did. But he's
Speaker 3: been very effective and they're not asking him to be
Speaker 3: MVP era Aaron Rodgers. He doesn't throw it thirty times
Speaker 3: a game, but he's taking care of the ball. He's
Speaker 3: only got three interceptions, he's not taking sacks. He's only
Speaker 3: been sacked nine times. They don't have a lot of
Speaker 3: negative plays on offense, so they're rarely in like third
Speaker 3: and ten, third and twelve. They just kind of have
Speaker 3: been methodically moving down the field. Don't have a great
Speaker 3: running game, at least not yet. But Rogers has been effective. Im.
Speaker 3: I'll give him credit because I didn't know how much
Speaker 3: he had left, and he's actually been playing pretty well.
Speaker 4: He really has.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing is I think maybe sticking
Speaker 2: it to the Jets. But the Jets are you know,
Speaker 2: they're a wastelanders what that team has been for a
Speaker 2: long time. So to see him come out and go
Speaker 2: and I don't want to see him do it for Pittsburgh,
Speaker 2: but I don't like the Jets either, So I don't
Speaker 2: know what horse I'm backing in this race.
Speaker 4: How does this defense stop that machine?
Speaker 3: I think you got to try to get a few takeaways.
Speaker 3: I think that's going to be a real key tonight.
Speaker 3: Can the Bengals be on the plus side in the
Speaker 3: turnover battle because Pittsburgh is four and one this year,
Speaker 3: because they're plus seven in the takeaway ratio? I mentioned
Speaker 3: they had five takeaways when they beat New England, that's
Speaker 3: what they're doing. They've been optimistic or opportunistic this year.
Speaker 3: They've been in close games, their defense gets a take
Speaker 3: away in the fourth quarter, they pull it out. That's
Speaker 3: the type of game the Bengals need to play tonight.
Speaker 3: I don't think the Bengals have a defense that's going
Speaker 3: to hold any bent buddy to a tiny yardage total.
Speaker 3: That's just not who they are right now. But they
Speaker 3: are capable of getting some takeaways. They got them in
Speaker 3: the first two games when they won. I think that's
Speaker 3: going to be a real key to the game tonight. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I bring up with the importance of our the question
Speaker 2: about our secondary, because they have the fourth fewest rushing
Speaker 2: yards per game, and they don't rush the play, don'trun
Speaker 2: the ball, and yeah, Aaron Rodger is going to dink
Speaker 2: and dunk you. I think the other side of the
Speaker 2: ball of Steelers defense as sure as the sun rises
Speaker 2: these sets in the west, d and you know the
Speaker 2: Steeler if they're going to have a pretty good defense year.
Speaker 3: To year, yeah, and I think it's better than pretty
Speaker 3: good this year. They've gone back to being of Blitzburg.
Speaker 3: So we remember those days. Dick Leboe as the defensive
Speaker 3: coordinator and five and six guys coming after you on
Speaker 3: every passing attempt. They had gotten away from that a
Speaker 3: little bit over the last couple of years, but they're
Speaker 3: back to doing that. So far this year the third
Speaker 3: in the league in blitz percentage. They've got six guys
Speaker 3: that have multiple sacks, led by Nick Herbig, who technically
Speaker 3: isn't even a starter. He's got four and a half sacks.
Speaker 3: He plays a lot, but he's technically not listed as
Speaker 3: a starter something where he's thirty six, he's still good. TJ.
Speaker 3: Watt is still there, He's thirty one. He's still good.
Speaker 3: The guy that I was hoping that the Bengals are
Speaker 3: going to take in the first round this year, Derek
Speaker 3: Harmon having an excellent rookie year. I'm happy the Bengals
Speaker 3: wound up with Tamar Stewart because I think he's going
Speaker 3: to be great. But I really like Eric Harmon going
Speaker 3: into the draft, and I think the Steelers added another
Speaker 3: scud to their defense.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, get out there, score some points early.
Speaker 2: Maybe an important coin toss for the Bengals, quite honestly,
Speaker 2: because if you can get that first drive and get
Speaker 2: some points to get some momentum going. That's something the
Speaker 2: Bengals have locked for the last four games for sure.
Speaker 2: So tonight Dan and Lamp with the call here on
Speaker 2: the Home of the Best Bengals covered seven hundred WLW
Speaker 2: eight fifteen Thursday Night Football. Let's get some who, Let's
Speaker 2: get some Hooday magic. Get out the schneid here. Four
Speaker 2: game we cannot make it all five game losing streak, nonetheless,
Speaker 2: Dan Horde all the best, Buddy, thanks for checking in
Speaker 2: this morning.
Speaker 4: Have a great game, Thanks Blenny.
Speaker 2: Thursday Night Football eight to fifteen, we got the pregame
Speaker 2: show starting at three o'clock. Holy growled Banks, the boys
Speaker 2: are down there and we've got football and Cincinnati in
Speaker 2: a Thursday Night seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 1: The buying and selling of homes isn't for the timid
Speaker 1: or meek. The real estate world can be a vicious
Speaker 1: jungle playing with dangers and pitfall boss. Thank god, we've
Speaker 1: got Remax time agent Michelle Sloan, a fearless real tour
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Speaker 1: real estate Jungle. It's real estate Time, which Michelle Sloane
Speaker 1: on seven hundred l Jelli all right, my wife.
Speaker 2: Is in on this beautiful Thursday morning talking what are
Speaker 2: we talking about?
Speaker 4: Talking about real.
Speaker 2: Estates, talking about the fact that I have decided I'm
Speaker 2: a pretty damn good husband. Here's me limping around on
Speaker 2: crutches and I had the knee scooter for hopefully another week.
Speaker 2: Knock wood. I'm like, you know what, I can get
Speaker 2: buy in crutches because I don't want my beautiful wife
Speaker 2: to have to get up early in the morning and
Speaker 2: drive me to work like you have been for the
Speaker 2: past two weeks. That poor woman has sacrificed so much
Speaker 2: with me being on the DL, So thank you for that.
Speaker 6: You're welcome. I'm not sure is that. No, that was
Speaker 6: the most backhanded compliment ever.
Speaker 4: No, I would say. Somebody said, well, what happened to
Speaker 4: your scooter?
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, my wife's been getting for the last
Speaker 2: two weeks, and it's like, I wouldn't want to do that.
Speaker 2: So I thought, you know, I can get around on
Speaker 2: crutches if the doctor said I can, you can drive
Speaker 2: if you don't have the medicine, And I thought, you know,
Speaker 2: for the next week or soever long it takes, I
Speaker 2: can hobble around it. And yeah, that's uncomfortable, but that's fine.
Speaker 2: So thanks for driving me for the last two weeks.
Speaker 6: Oh, you're welcome, dear. You know it's you'll be carting
Speaker 6: me around soon, isn't.
Speaker 4: That the thing?
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, as you get older, it's all
Speaker 2: the stuff that you did when you were younger that
Speaker 2: bill comes due, or maybe what you didn't do when
Speaker 2: you were younger and should have done. But you know, hey,
Speaker 2: play sports, exercise, try to be relatively fit, which I
Speaker 2: don't think you're the one of us fit in that category.
Speaker 2: But and now all the osteo stuff comes home to go,
Speaker 2: Oh you got to get this fix and that fix
Speaker 2: because of why well do you exercise like well, you
Speaker 2: told me I was doing that to get a better
Speaker 2: quality of life. Yeah, that's not true. What a bunch
Speaker 2: of crap. Everything exists to sell us something. I don't
Speaker 2: know what to do. Let's talk about real estate related stuff.
Speaker 2: I know the tariffs are hitting home. You want to
Speaker 2: talk about that this morning?
Speaker 6: Yeah, let's start with that, because I mean there's a
Speaker 6: lot going on, or there's a little going on in
Speaker 6: the real estate world, depending on what you are, what
Speaker 6: where you are, I guess, but there were new tariffs
Speaker 6: this week that took effect so on imported lumber and
Speaker 6: wooden fixtures took effect on Tuesday, which includes a ten
Speaker 6: percent tariff on ol, timber and lumber products and a
Speaker 6: higher twenty five percent And this is this one may
Speaker 6: really hit home for a lot of people. Twenty five
Speaker 6: percent on cabinets and furniture. So you know, you're seeing
Speaker 6: the increase. You're going to see the increase of pretty
Speaker 6: much everything that you need in your home is the
Speaker 6: prices are going to go up. And then January first,
Speaker 6: wooden furniture is rising to thirty percent tariff and kitchen
Speaker 6: cabinets fifty percent. Kitchen cabinets and vanities. And people don't
Speaker 6: realize that cabinets are a really significant number, like the
Speaker 6: big number in home buildings.
Speaker 2: Cabin try very very expensive. It's all because there's a
Speaker 2: lot of labor involved in making a cabinet. You know,
Speaker 2: there are some kinds that you can you can save money.
Speaker 2: There's some that you can kind of assemble yourself that
Speaker 2: are actually quite good. I'll be honest with you, I
Speaker 2: have installed and number of rentals, but as a matter
Speaker 2: of fact, some of those types of cabinets in our
Speaker 2: laundry room at our new house. And you know, they're
Speaker 2: they're fantastic, they work, they're warranted to the whole bit. Now,
Speaker 2: when you get to the hardwoods and veneer woods and
Speaker 2: custom cabinets, that can be exorbitant because there's a lot
Speaker 2: of labor, and now you add the cost of important materials.
Speaker 4: And so that's right, we have.
Speaker 6: The costs cabinets and countertops account for about twenty thousand
Speaker 6: dollars on average for a new build. Five percent is
Speaker 6: wrapped up in your cabinets and countertops. That's why most
Speaker 6: people will keep their cabinets, especially in their kitchen, until
Speaker 6: they're literally falling off the hinges. You know they're going
Speaker 6: to be repainted, they're going to be you're going to
Speaker 6: just try to find anyway not to replace those cabinets.
Speaker 6: Because when you get into replacing cabinets, when you're doing
Speaker 6: at home renovations, you're looking at tens of thousands of dollars, right,
Speaker 6: You're looking at ten or twenty thousand dollars for new cabinets,
Speaker 6: and you're like, oh, is there any way I can
Speaker 6: get away with the ones that I've got? And you know,
Speaker 6: like I said, we've seen some cabinets that have been
Speaker 6: around fifty years or more because people just don't want
Speaker 6: to even the cabinets in our new house, our old
Speaker 6: cabinets that were refurbished and were painted. And so the
Speaker 6: business of repainting cabinet has really increased over the years
Speaker 6: and it's become common it's commonplace. The quality is so
Speaker 6: much better when you're repainting cabinets. People will ask me,
Speaker 6: you know, I've got this, maybe it's maple, maybe it's
Speaker 6: a different type of the wood, but I'm tired of
Speaker 6: this wood color. You know, I don't want to the
Speaker 6: dark cherry color that's been out for a while. Can
Speaker 6: I paint my cabinet? The answer is absolutely yes, and
Speaker 6: there are some really good companies and individuals out there
Speaker 6: who will do it well. Because if you don't do
Speaker 6: it well and you don't take it, if you try
Speaker 6: to just paint on your cabinet just willy nilly, like.
Speaker 3: We're going to.
Speaker 2: But people will pay big money for hand paint and
Speaker 2: custom cabinet.
Speaker 4: So it's what's the difference.
Speaker 2: And I'd say, if you're fine with some brushstrokes in
Speaker 2: that and maybe some perfect you can definite there's a
Speaker 2: lot of good kits in the technology in the last
Speaker 2: ten years, Agot in phenomenal relative to cabinet paint, and
Speaker 2: you know, blending those lines make it look like it's sprayed.
Speaker 2: If if that's not for you, you're not handy, don't want
Speaker 2: to do that, or maybe a little bit more, but
Speaker 2: you want to do new cabinets, you can have a
Speaker 2: professional painter come in. They'll take the cabinet doors off,
Speaker 2: take them and spray them and then probably handpaint the
Speaker 2: trim and it'll look really, really good.
Speaker 4: You can go that route much cheaper.
Speaker 2: There's companies that come and reface cabinets and put them
Speaker 2: in the ear on top of the old one and
Speaker 2: you really won't notice. There's a little bit you can
Speaker 2: tell when the doors are open. It's a little bit different.
Speaker 2: But I mean really for the cost savings is it's
Speaker 2: night and day and they can do that in a
Speaker 2: day or two. Yeah, there's all sorts of different options
Speaker 2: you can. And the other thing too is if you
Speaker 2: have old cabinets, I think you just have to look
Speaker 2: at them, or I have a professional look and go
Speaker 2: all right, how good is the carcass which is the
Speaker 2: box itself?
Speaker 4: I mean you think about it.
Speaker 2: A cabinet is just a box that sits on the floor,
Speaker 2: it hangs on the wall, It doesn't go anywhere. The
Speaker 2: hinges may wear out, the doors may wear out, but
Speaker 2: those things are replaceable. I would say, if the bones,
Speaker 2: if the cabinet and the carcass are good, and you're
Speaker 2: looking at a cost of brand new cabinets, you may
Speaker 2: want to rethink that whole process because you want to
Speaker 2: lean more towards what we're talking about here.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: You know, if you have the money and you want it,
Speaker 2: new cabinets, absolutely knock yourself out. But for sure, there's
Speaker 2: all sorts of ways to go about saving the ones
Speaker 2: you have because the older they are generally, I mean,
Speaker 2: unless they're you know, particle board or something like that,
Speaker 2: which you do see and you see, let's face, a
Speaker 2: cabinet that's fifty years now, thirty to fifty years old,
Speaker 2: you may you're probably going to have to replace that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you have something that's a hardwood and
Speaker 2: old wood or something like that, my god, yeah, those
Speaker 2: things will last.
Speaker 4: You know, get new doors to hardware.
Speaker 6: Right as the particle board if that was used. Just
Speaker 6: like anything, if you're putting glasses, you know out of
Speaker 6: the dishwasher that there's still a little bit wet, and
Speaker 6: you're putting them in your cabinets, that surface is going
Speaker 6: to wear a lot quicker. And you can always put
Speaker 6: different kinds of shelving materials and cover that up and
Speaker 6: get get a few more years out of it. But
Speaker 6: if you're planning to build a home anytime in the
Speaker 6: next twelve months, just expect that builders are going to
Speaker 6: be passing on the cost of tariff to you. And
Speaker 6: we're looking at anywhere between the estimates are going to
Speaker 6: be about fourteen percent higher, potentially about ten thousand dollars
Speaker 6: on the average home. You're going to see increases. So
Speaker 6: it's definitely going to cost and the whole I guess
Speaker 6: the reason why the tear off starts trying to get
Speaker 6: more and more American wood putting being put back into
Speaker 6: the timber right to be put back into the system,
Speaker 6: and that's going to take some time. Like that's not
Speaker 6: something you can't take those sawmills and just crank them up.
Speaker 6: I just crank it out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's and you got to grow a tree.
Speaker 2: So seventy percent of the lumber we use some I'm
Speaker 2: talking about softwood lumber because hardwoods can be exotic and
Speaker 2: come from different countries, but also on them. Let's talk
Speaker 2: about tine right softwood lumber, It's seventy percent of it
Speaker 2: comes from Canada, and as does supply wood. So even
Speaker 2: dry wall. I was seeing the price of drywall, I
Speaker 2: was looking at drywall fixing something. I'm like, my god,
Speaker 2: if she'd a drywall, now was what she'd apply withoud
Speaker 2: she plywood used to be not long ago, same things.
Speaker 2: You know, seventy percent of the gypsum comes from Mexico,
Speaker 2: so you know, we have the duties on all this
Speaker 2: stuff and just driving the costs up. And then you
Speaker 2: add in steel and aluminum and plastic pipe and copper
Speaker 2: and now appliances of course too, are are deeply affected
Speaker 2: by this as well, because we import about eighty percent
Speaker 2: of our aluminum and almost twenty percent of our steel,
Speaker 2: So all the stuff is going up. You just am
Speaker 2: waiting for the jobs to come. At this point, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're getting We're getting killed right now when it comes
Speaker 2: to building supplies and housing and everything out everything that
Speaker 2: we buy, and I'm waiting for the jobs to be
Speaker 2: created and get these prices backing are at least some sort
Speaker 2: of trade balance to go in effect, but we're not
Speaker 2: seeing it yet.
Speaker 6: Well, and we did experience some supply chain issues back
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty when we had the pandemic. We're likely
Speaker 6: to see a little bit of that supply chain disruption
Speaker 6: and as well because of the tariffs. So there may
Speaker 6: be some shortages in some areas, some increases. It just
Speaker 6: may take some time, so those costs are going to
Speaker 6: be handed over to consumers. You may see delays and
Speaker 6: the long term implication certainly it could take a couple
Speaker 6: of years to sort of straighten itself out and maybe
Speaker 6: we'll be better off in the long run.
Speaker 3: Again, we'll have to wait and see.
Speaker 6: We'll have to wait and see.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but it squeezed a lot of people.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 2: Is that also ending the fact that we're seeing a
Speaker 2: stagnant real estate.
Speaker 4: Market right now.
Speaker 6: The real estate market right now is definitely trending down
Speaker 6: a little bit for sure. The average days on market
Speaker 6: in the Cincinnati area are around forty five days on market.
Speaker 6: So when you lift a home, and this is the
Speaker 6: frustration that I have because most consumers maybe don't realize,
Speaker 6: oh they you know, they keep telling me, Oh, the
Speaker 6: markets great. The market's great. Where you're going to sell
Speaker 6: your house in a day, Yeah, it's not going to
Speaker 6: happen in a day most likely now, And you have
Speaker 6: to put on a lot of patients. So even I
Speaker 6: had a new listing go on with one of my
Speaker 6: agents yesterday and by the end of the day she's like, uh,
Speaker 6: we don't have any showings scheduled yet. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 6: and you may not for a few days because buyers.
Speaker 6: Buyers are really taking their time. A lot of them
Speaker 6: have hunkered down, i think for the rest of this
Speaker 6: year and they're not going to make a change, and
Speaker 6: so there are fewer buyers out there looking they are.
Speaker 6: If you are looking, and you are a buyer, you
Speaker 6: probably have very very specific needs. You may want a
Speaker 6: ranch in a certain price range and maybe that doesn't
Speaker 6: exist or it doesn't exist, and that might that type
Speaker 6: of a property myself very very quickly. But overall, a
Speaker 6: lot of just really really nice homes are on the
Speaker 6: market right now, and they have been for forty five
Speaker 6: days or more, and sellers are getting a little nervous,
Speaker 6: and so we're seeing a lot of uncertainty in the
Speaker 6: real estate market, and with that uncertainty, you know, becomes
Speaker 6: opportunities for buyers. So I tell buyers, right now, the
Speaker 6: mortgage interest rates around six point three five or something
Speaker 6: like that, depending on your credit, so it's less than
Speaker 6: seven percent, and there are opportunities out there. Don't be
Speaker 6: afraid to look at a home that's been on the
Speaker 6: market for a long time. There's nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 6: You know it used to be in the day. Well,
Speaker 6: that house has been on the market for three weeks
Speaker 6: because there must be something wrong with it. There's nothing
Speaker 6: wrong with that house. It's perfectly great. It just may
Speaker 6: not have had the right buyer walk through. And I
Speaker 6: very much encourage people if you are a buyer and
Speaker 6: you are looking sort of broaden maybe what you're looking
Speaker 6: for and take a look at a few of the
Speaker 6: houses that have on the market for a minute, because
Speaker 6: those sellers are going to be more willing to negotiate.
Speaker 6: And that's something that you may now you're not gonna
Speaker 6: Let's not go back to those days, because I've been
Speaker 6: in this business, as you know, for twenty years. Let's
Speaker 6: not go back to the days when we're putting in
Speaker 6: offers that are thirty thousand dollars lest from less price.
Speaker 4: That's just that's not going to happen.
Speaker 6: Pits and going to make people really mad, and don't
Speaker 6: just don't do that, Please.
Speaker 4: Don't do it.
Speaker 2: Don't there but everyone wants a deal in a bargain.
Speaker 2: And all that happened when we sold our house. Unfortunately
Speaker 2: we you know, did it right now at the right time.
Speaker 2: I you know, you made me think speaking of our
Speaker 2: old house, same thing as people. You know, you've also
Speaker 2: got to take a step back and go, okay, is
Speaker 2: there something wrong with this house or is an opportunity here?
Speaker 4: And on that.
Speaker 2: When we bought our first of the house, when we
Speaker 2: moved here and I got twenty something years ago, it
Speaker 2: was backing up to a field where they were doing
Speaker 2: site work on and it was going to be a
Speaker 2: I think light and dust trill basically is what they
Speaker 2: were calling this. And they had people coming through the
Speaker 2: house and no one would touch it because they're afraid
Speaker 2: this big factory was going to go in the backyard.
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, first of all, you know it's Mason,
Speaker 2: how much of the factory going to put in there?
Speaker 2: And then secondly, you know, looking at the the guy
Speaker 2: had the architectural plans out there and you know, looking
Speaker 2: at what it was going to be and what the
Speaker 2: restrictions were, and also landscaping can kind of go a
Speaker 2: long way too. So we looked at it and said,
Speaker 2: you know what, I think this is the fact that
Speaker 2: people see bulldozers and freak out. You know, you're going
Speaker 2: to be looking through someone's back window in the suburbs,
Speaker 2: or in this case, it was likely and you know,
Speaker 2: there were restrictions in place when they could do deliveries,
Speaker 2: and we're looking at it, going, okay, this is we
Speaker 2: can do some landscaping in the backyard. And you know,
Speaker 2: turns out it was probably one of the best investments
Speaker 2: who ever made, not only because we raised our kids there,
Speaker 2: but then we turned around and sold it and people
Speaker 2: loved it because it's like, oh my gosh, it's so
Speaker 2: nice and private back here. Well, yeah, because you know
Speaker 2: you saw that coming and you know we're lucky to
Speaker 2: get that opportunity. But also, I think when you're doing this,
Speaker 2: you can't you can't. Well there's a reason why. So
Speaker 2: though you know it's been on the market for two
Speaker 2: months or whatever.
Speaker 4: Well why is that?
Speaker 2: You know, find out why and then actually think about, hey,
Speaker 2: can I work around this because then you.
Speaker 4: Can find a bargain.
Speaker 6: Is it really going to affect the way that you
Speaker 6: live your life? And you know, we really we love
Speaker 6: the fact that we didn't have neighbors looking in our
Speaker 6: windows in the backyard. We had the privacy for the
Speaker 6: most part. But you know that that's something that you
Speaker 6: can also create once you buy a home like that
Speaker 6: and you have the understanding. Some people just they don't
Speaker 6: want to take on what they consider the risk and
Speaker 6: there's always ways around it. Like you said, there's landscaping
Speaker 6: and the trees that you can buy that will provide
Speaker 6: screens and it won't completely If you're backed up to
Speaker 6: a road, that's not always going to be the best location.
Speaker 6: But then again maybe not. Maybe it is.
Speaker 2: Bottom line is you know, just take a pause and
Speaker 2: just because everyone else is doing it, just stop and
Speaker 2: think and you know, think about the problem for a
Speaker 2: minute and maybe there's an opportunity to there for anyway.
Speaker 2: My wife Michelle Sloane Sloan sales homes dot com, open
Speaker 2: house show via the iHeartRadio app and podcasts of course
Speaker 2: on YouTube as well, and she's in mainvillat remax time.
Speaker 2: All right, let me thanks again I gotta goat, gotta go.
Speaker 2: Willie is on the way. We are in the Terry
Speaker 2: Thigi Chief Terry Thigi career deathwatch right now, and she's
Speaker 2: gonna fallo on the sword for the incompetent administration of
Speaker 2: the City of Cincinnati allows crime to run ramp and
Speaker 2: then blames the chief and has to do with the
Speaker 2: stupid policies, I think. But nonetheless, we'll keep an eye
Speaker 2: out for that. And of course we've got Thursday Night
Speaker 2: football tonight, Bengals and Steelers tonight, and it all kicks
Speaker 2: off three o'clock, by the way, live broadcast.
Speaker 4: Down at the at the Grill. Get on down there
Speaker 4: with the boys.
Speaker 2: Scott Sloan Show, Home of the Best Bengals coverage, seven
Speaker 2: hundred w o w D, Cincinnati,