Joel Comm: There's a lot of questions surrounding Tether, the third largest
Joel Comm: crypto by market cap with the collapse of USD. People
Joel Comm: want to be sure that there is liquid backing. Dollar
Joel Comm: for dollar Behind USD 80 is the world's biggest stablecoin
Joel Comm: too big to fail? Today we welcome the Chief technology
Joel Comm: officer of Tether, Paolo Arduino to the show to ask
Joel Comm: these tough questions. We also discuss FTC's audits and the
Joel Comm: future of cryptos in general. We're a fairly stable podcast
Joel Comm: with unstable podcast hosts. Hopefully our guests can bring some
Joel Comm: stability to the show. On this episode, number 655. Of
Joel Comm: the Bad Crypto podcast.
Travis Wright: Five, four.
Travis Wright: Three. Ask are there all of the actors whose bad?
Joel Comm: I'm feeling unstable.
Travis Wright: Somebody hodl me. Is anything new? Yeah. You're not stable.
Travis Wright: Neither one of us are stable. This is the world's
Travis Wright: most unstable crypto currency podcast. Unstable for five and a
Travis Wright: half years of instability.
Joel Comm: Wow. Welcome to the Bad Crypto podcast. We are the
Joel Comm: metaverse morons, the web3 weenies, the algorithmic asshats, the bad
Joel Comm: crypto bad asses, duck, duck going stuff so you don't
Joel Comm: have to. And we are really excited about today's show
Joel Comm: because it's rare that you get sea level people from
Joel Comm: the big cryptos to come on the show to to
Joel Comm: talk about what's going on. We've tried to reach out
Joel Comm: to the CEO of Bitcoin. No response. You know, so
Joel Comm: maybe one day that'll happen. I don't know.
Travis Wright: Yeah, this one's going to answer some questions because we
Travis Wright: test some on some some pretty interesting topics with this guy,
Travis Wright: because I know a lot of people are thinking, wow,
Travis Wright: is is USD, is tether, is it stable? Is it
Travis Wright: going to last the long run? What's going to happen?
Travis Wright: Is it going to crash? And so we cover some
Travis Wright: of that today with the CTO of Tether who assures
Travis Wright: us that maybe or maybe not. We'll see. Awesome.
Joel Comm: Well, you believe him? Let's find out. Here we go.
Joel Comm: I guess you can say we're a stable podcast hosted
Joel Comm: by unstable people because we've been doing this five and
Joel Comm: a half years now. Trevor.
Travis Wright: So which one's the stable one?
Joel Comm: Clearly, Me.
Travis Wright: Clearly it.
Joel Comm: Is. Is there really? Is that even up for debate?
Travis Wright: I seem pretty stable. I mean, I'm definitely more more,
Travis Wright: you know, steady.
Joel Comm: I expect you to break out in a re any second.
Travis Wright: I'm not. I'm not in that easily offended. Thank you.
Joel Comm: Well, as long as we're talking about stable, one of
Joel Comm: the most controversial subjects in the crypto world has been
Joel Comm: stable coins, and one of the coins has been in
Joel Comm: the spotlight again and again with lots of questions surrounding
Joel Comm: it in spite of its massive adoption. Of course, we're
Joel Comm: talking about USD tether and today we are privileged to
Joel Comm: have with us the CTO of Tether, Mr. Paolo Arduino. Paolo,
Joel Comm: thanks for coming on Bad crypto.
Paolo Ardoino: Hey guys. Thank you for having me.
Joel Comm: Absolutely. Why don't you go ahead and give us a
Joel Comm: little bit of your history in crypto and how you
Joel Comm: came to be with Tether.
Paolo Ardoino: Sure. So I started coding in a very young age.
Paolo Ardoino: So I started cutting since I was eight years old
Paolo Ardoino: and it kept kept growing in me. The Passion always
Paolo Ardoino: excited about privacy, could top WiFi, distributed applications and the
Paolo Ardoino: power of computing. So, you know, initially at the beginning
Paolo Ardoino: of my career worked on a super cool communication system
Paolo Ardoino: for battlefields, for, you know, client communications in battlefields and then,
Paolo Ardoino: you know, was in Italy, didn't pay much. So I
Paolo Ardoino: moved to finance. To, you know, trying to make up
Paolo Ardoino: the living. And so started working for a few hedge funds,
Paolo Ardoino: started to build software for them, understanding all the intricacies,
Paolo Ardoino: intricacies of finance. You know, also the bad habits of
Paolo Ardoino: finance and the really, really bad infrastructure of traditional financial systems. So,
Paolo Ardoino: you know, it's just to summarize, it is all cash
Paolo Ardoino: buy together, buy rubber and beans. In 2014, I had
Paolo Ardoino: the privilege to start becoming and well becoming one of
Paolo Ardoino: the developers of the Phoenix, just focusing on matching engine.
Paolo Ardoino: The platform was more and more adopted and hence they
Paolo Ardoino: had some sort of lags and issues with the performances
Paolo Ardoino: of their matching engine. So I was asked to, given
Paolo Ardoino: my expertise in parallel computing scalable applications to was asked
Paolo Ardoino: to improve that. And in 2017 I became also the
Paolo Ardoino: CTO of Tether. So taking care of the security side, blockchains,
Paolo Ardoino: integrations and you know swap of multisig and similar. So yeah,
Paolo Ardoino: that is my energy's my story. I'm just a dude
Paolo Ardoino: that codes.
Travis Wright: Dude that codes at some of the highest levels, right?
Travis Wright: And I mean, from what you've done, you know, working
Travis Wright: with the military as a researcher and some of those things,
Travis Wright: learning about cryptography and doing some of those things kind
Travis Wright: of prepared you for where you are today, which is
Travis Wright: an exciting thing. And I think a lot of people,
Travis Wright: they're looking at your background. They're saying, okay, wait a second,
Travis Wright: you're the CTO of Bitfinex and the CTO of Tether.
Travis Wright: How does that work and how does they work together?
Paolo Ardoino: Well, and also I'm the CSO that hole punch this
Paolo Ardoino: news amazing peer to peer communication system that we are building.
Joel Comm: That sounds really busy to me. That's like. That's a
Joel Comm: lot of stuff.
Travis Wright: Yeah. That's your DIY mask over there. Yeah. I mean, I.
Joel Comm: Hope you're delegating like crazy.
Paolo Ardoino: I'm a control freak. So, but also, yeah, I have
Paolo Ardoino: great teammates, so total delegation, but I like to call
Paolo Ardoino: the shots when it comes to architecture and and security.
Paolo Ardoino: You know, the history of crypto has been told by
Paolo Ardoino: so many hacks that I'm always, you know, scared and always,
Paolo Ardoino: you know, making sure that I can review every single
Paolo Ardoino: line of code that is pushed to the systems to
Paolo Ardoino: make sure that, you know, we we don't have any
Paolo Ardoino: any problems. So. Well, yeah, really. So on the on
Paolo Ardoino: the Bitfinex side, well, we have an amazing team of
Paolo Ardoino: engineers and I still the main developer of the machine engine.
Paolo Ardoino: You know, it's kind of one of my passions to
Paolo Ardoino: make sure that we can squeeze as much performance as possible.
Paolo Ardoino: So these with this last update that we published just
Paolo Ardoino: few weeks ago, we were able to go below one
Paolo Ardoino: millisecond of fool around latency. That is quite an achievement
Paolo Ardoino: for a platform that started from crypto right in 2014
Paolo Ardoino: when I joined, we could process only 50 to 100
Paolo Ardoino: or two per second. Now we are basically at 1
Paolo Ardoino: million or third per second, like in 2014 crypto exchanges
Paolo Ardoino: where felt like more e-commerce keys for bitcoin rather than,
Paolo Ardoino: you know, our additive trading platforms. And nowadays, while the
Paolo Ardoino: fast forward we hired not just us but the general
Paolo Ardoino: industry hired many professionals from other industries. And now things
Paolo Ardoino: seem quite better from the infrastructure point of view and
Paolo Ardoino: on the other side.
Travis Wright: Did Did you say a million transactions per second?
Paolo Ardoino: That's correct.
Travis Wright: And is that bitfinex or is that tether?
Paolo Ardoino: No, it's bitfinex. So, you know, Dimension Engine is the
Paolo Ardoino: part of the system that takes the orders from the
Paolo Ardoino: different users and matched them. Right. So of course we
Paolo Ardoino: go we go in parallel or multiple. So we have
Paolo Ardoino: one CPU dedicated per trading pair. So you can every
Paolo Ardoino: trading pair can independently use as much performance as possible
Paolo Ardoino: for four per core.
Joel Comm: Well, let's go ahead and get to basics, because there's
Joel Comm: a lot of people that might be listening to the
Joel Comm: show that don't even understand how a stablecoin works. So
Joel Comm: give us a basic bird's eye definition of tether and
Joel Comm: how it works.
Paolo Ardoino: Sure. So there is as simple as a dollar and
Paolo Ardoino: a blockchain. Now let me expand on that. So that
Paolo Ardoino: I was born in 2014, right? Tetris is the company
Paolo Ardoino: that created the concept of Stablecoins. So the reason of
Paolo Ardoino: two exists of Tether at the beginning was I'm not
Paolo Ardoino: sure how many of you guys that are listening remember
Paolo Ardoino: the crypto sphere and ecosystem in 2014, but definitely was challenging, right? So.
Paolo Ardoino: Bitcoin was traded on four or five top exchanges at
Paolo Ardoino: a time. There was Bitfinex, Kraken, Bitstamp, Coinbase and Okcoin.
Paolo Ardoino: And in order to run an exchange or having, you know,
Paolo Ardoino: in a health exchange, you need market makers. But also
Paolo Ardoino: you want to make sure that the price of Bitcoin
Paolo Ardoino: is pretty much the same across all the exchanges. So.
Paolo Ardoino: In August 13 was the first time Bitcoin went above
Paolo Ardoino: $1,000 and you had some exchanges that were trading at
Paolo Ardoino: 1.2 thousand. Other exchanges that were trading $900. Right. Because
Paolo Ardoino: there is in for that was that in order to
Paolo Ardoino: keep prices aligned across exchanges you had. You needed to
Paolo Ardoino: have arbitrage reverse arbitrage. You're smart. Those traders that sell
Paolo Ardoino: bitcoin on the exchange where the price is higher and
Paolo Ardoino: buy back on the exchange where the price is lower.
Paolo Ardoino: Of course, when you do that, you have to move
Paolo Ardoino: dollars from one exchange to another. And in 2014, moving
Paolo Ardoino: dollars from one exchange to another would take five days.
Paolo Ardoino: So the arbitrage opportunity was basically gone. So the reason
Paolo Ardoino: of tether to exist initially was, okay, let's use this
Paolo Ardoino: pretend technology that Bitcoin created. It was called blockchain and
Paolo Ardoino: why we don't use blockchain to move dollars. So at
Paolo Ardoino: least at that time you could move, well, Bitcoin in
Paolo Ardoino: 10 minutes. Bitcoin blockchain is one one block every 10
Paolo Ardoino: minutes pretty much. And we wanted to just use the
Paolo Ardoino: same thing for tether. And so suddenly we could optimized
Paolo Ardoino: the trading markets for four for across exchanges. So that
Paolo Ardoino: is a symptom of a growing and more mature industry.
Paolo Ardoino: And nowadays terror is becoming many more things. Is actually
Paolo Ardoino: an inflation hedge for Turkey, for El Salvador, for, you know,
Paolo Ardoino: for Venezuela, for Argentina and so on. So basically, is
Paolo Ardoino: this total monetary base of terror is growing because people
Paolo Ardoino: just need to not be subject to the enormous inflation
Paolo Ardoino: due to their, you know, national currency like the Turkish
Paolo Ardoino: for the last 80% year on year to, you know,
Paolo Ardoino: from monetary policies and so on. Right. So is actually
Paolo Ardoino: being used as a way to as a lifeline for
Paolo Ardoino: for many people around the world, especially in virtual markets
Paolo Ardoino: and developing countries.
Travis Wright: Yes. So somebody if they have some Bitcoin, right. Let's
Travis Wright: just say and say, hey, you know what, I think
Travis Wright: the price of Bitcoin is going lower. I'm going to
Travis Wright: sell my Bitcoin, But they don't typically sell the Bitcoin
Travis Wright: out to their bank account. They normally will put it
Travis Wright: in USD and they're going to put it in Usdc
Travis Wright: or some other stablecoin. Now we've seen what happened to
Travis Wright: USD with Luna, right? We saw how they were overleveraged.
Travis Wright: They didn't have enough. We just went through this horrendous
Travis Wright: thing with FCX. And so I know a lot of
Travis Wright: people are out there right now talking about what happened
Travis Wright: if what happens if tether fails? What happens if Tether
Travis Wright: does not have enough in their reserves to get us
Travis Wright: through this? Bitcoin we could see sub $5,000 price in
Travis Wright: bitcoin because people wouldn't have a mechanism to easily get out.
Travis Wright: And so I guess my question to you, Paolo, would
Travis Wright: be how do you ensure that tether never goes down?
Travis Wright: Because we need this decentralized stablecoin more than ever because
Travis Wright: we are on the precipice of this technocracy that wants
Travis Wright: to bring in these central bank digital currencies and they
Travis Wright: want to get rid of a lot of this crypto stuff.
Travis Wright: So how do we build up the faith and ensure
Travis Wright: that tether never crashes?
Paolo Ardoino: Well, just to be clear, Tether has older reserves that
Paolo Ardoino: are extremely liquid, right? So there is a huge difference
Paolo Ardoino: between Terra and, you know, all the other stablecoins that
Paolo Ardoino: failed and tether. So with the latest attestation we have seen,
Paolo Ardoino: we have shown that 82.5% of of the assets of
Paolo Ardoino: tether are cash and cash equivalents. We increased the number
Paolo Ardoino: of the exposure to U.S. Treasury bills. You know, all
Paolo Ardoino: that craziness about, you know, the commercial papers. Well, we
Paolo Ardoino: we show to our community that in less than one
Paolo Ardoino: year we could do take the $30 billion that we
Paolo Ardoino: have in in in commercial papers and move everything to U.S. T-bills. Right.
Paolo Ardoino: So tether listen to the community and act in the
Paolo Ardoino: best interest of the community. So the rest of the
Paolo Ardoino: remaining 70% of assets are extremely collateralized assets by extremely
Paolo Ardoino: with the collateral being extremely liquid. No FTT, nothing like
Paolo Ardoino: that is overly overly collateralized assets. We have displayed also
Paolo Ardoino: with Celsius with all the other companies that blew up.
Paolo Ardoino: That tether has been the only one. Only company being
Paolo Ardoino: exposed to these market issues has taken a risk management
Paolo Ardoino: extremely seriously. You know, everyone is looking at obsessed by tether,
Paolo Ardoino: but look at all the companies that are failing, right?
Paolo Ardoino: So all the companies that we are consider the white knights,
Paolo Ardoino: the holy heroes of the crypto industry. And yet, you know,
Paolo Ardoino: they all failed their customers. Tether has older reserves that
Paolo Ardoino: are extremely liquid, was able to process $7 billion in
Paolo Ardoino: redemptions in you know in between the 14 and 15
Paolo Ardoino: of May ensuing 48 hours process $7 billion silver redemption
Paolo Ardoino: that where around 10% of our reserves. No bank in
Paolo Ardoino: the world can do that. The first bank that tried
Paolo Ardoino: to do that was Washington Mutual in 2008, and they
Paolo Ardoino: went belly up that they're adding $20 billion in 30 days.
Paolo Ardoino: That was 30, 20, 25% of our reserves. And recently tether, tap,
Paolo Ardoino: redeem always redemption honored no failed to honor single redemption
Paolo Ardoino: all redeem at $1. So I mean we is not
Paolo Ardoino: that we don't have enough information we have a ton
Paolo Ardoino: of information about ourselves out there but also we have
Paolo Ardoino: something that others don't have that are facts, right? So
Paolo Ardoino: we have facts that say that we can redeem what
Paolo Ardoino: people need in cash in dollars. Right.
Joel Comm: So let me let me explain why people are obsessed, Paolo.
Joel Comm: People are obsessed because if you look here at the
Joel Comm: crypto market, cap tether is the number three in crypto
Joel Comm: market cap with a market cap of $65 billion ahead
Joel Comm: of U.S. DC, which is at 44 billion. On your website,
Joel Comm: you talk about transparency and say, Here's how we're backed.
Joel Comm: But the audit is is still not happening. This article
Joel Comm: in Cointelegraph goes back to July of 2021. Tether Promises
Joel Comm: Audit in months as Paxos claims USD is not a
Joel Comm: real stablecoin. So this was more than a year ago.
Joel Comm: So I went looking. All right. Has any information been released?
Joel Comm: I ended up at BLOCK Works and the page that
Joel Comm: the headline is Tether Pushes Back Timeline and Audit Report.
Joel Comm: I get a four or four. It's gone from the website,
Joel Comm: so I had to go to archive.org to find the
Joel Comm: actual article that was captured but is no longer there.
Joel Comm: Where were you said that you promise a full review
Joel Comm: of its books and the timeline is being pushed back.
Joel Comm: Of course, you're the you're the guy they go to
Joel Comm: for this in which you said it was likely months
Joel Comm: away still. So the question is, is why is this
Joel Comm: taking so long to get an audit?
Paolo Ardoino: Right. Let's unpack that. Right. So you you rightfully express
Paolo Ardoino: the opinion that a few people in the industry have. Right.
Paolo Ardoino: So let's look at the first thing. So no other
Paolo Ardoino: out there. Stablecoin has audits. The industry standard is attestations,
Paolo Ardoino: so I think is unfair to single us out. That
Paolo Ardoino: is the first thing. Second thing is, yes, we are
Paolo Ardoino: working on an audit. First of all, a few months
Paolo Ardoino: ago is around three months ago we moved from our
Paolo Ardoino: accounting company. That was more common, right was top well,
Paolo Ardoino: was the 12th biggest company in the world to a
Paolo Ardoino: top five company in the world that is just out
Paolo Ardoino: the first one outside a big four companies right that
Paolo Ardoino: two attestations that the accounting. So we actually have the
Paolo Ardoino: company that does accounting, that does at the stations that
Paolo Ardoino: is the most reputable among the others Stablecoins. So also
Paolo Ardoino: we are working. So I will let before we go there,
Paolo Ardoino: let me explain why doing an audit with also a
Paolo Ardoino: big four is so difficult. Because we have contacted them
Paolo Ardoino: and we try to work with a few of them
Paolo Ardoino: of the big four. And the issue is that without
Paolo Ardoino: having clear regulations on stablecoins, they don't want to take
Paolo Ardoino: the risk for them. Is there a potential reputational risk?
Paolo Ardoino: So how you can fully audit something that you don't
Paolo Ardoino: know exactly how you should own it, right? Because if
Paolo Ardoino: there is no regulator, be great. It of course that
Paolo Ardoino: tells you how many we each type of reserves are allowed,
Paolo Ardoino: how many reserves, what is the type of backing that
Paolo Ardoino: is allowed? What is there processes that you should allow
Paolo Ardoino: and so on. Let that takes enormous risk on the
Paolo Ardoino: shoulders of the big four. So they have too much
Paolo Ardoino: to lose I think is unfair, but it is what
Paolo Ardoino: it is. We got this exact answer now. We believe
Paolo Ardoino: that with video and there are right now, right now
Paolo Ardoino: other companies interested in proceeding with the audit is not
Paolo Ardoino: that we didn't try it. We are ready and we're
Paolo Ardoino: working towards it. We have again, we changed our accounting
Paolo Ardoino: company just to prove that we can raise the bar,
Paolo Ardoino: and that is that remains our top priority. So again,
Paolo Ardoino: is not something that only is this is not just
Paolo Ardoino: our issue is an issue of the industry and definitely
Paolo Ardoino: have the accident didn't help. Right. So the more you
Paolo Ardoino: make it a step forward, the more people are scared
Paolo Ardoino: because you said, well, we have this claim to have
Paolo Ardoino: a gap audit. FDX was, you know, so regulated and
Paolo Ardoino: look what happened. So I can tell you that auditors
Paolo Ardoino: are scared. So it takes time. You know, I'm the
Paolo Ardoino: first one to say that unfortunately, is taking more time
Paolo Ardoino: than what we wanted. We are not alone in not
Paolo Ardoino: having an audit. And also the guys that claim to
Paolo Ardoino: have an audit, you know, they went belly up. So
Paolo Ardoino: in this way, the auditing firms are extremely scared. And
Paolo Ardoino: so we need now to regain the trust for an
Paolo Ardoino: entire industry.
Joel Comm: So you understand why it looks questionable to people, because,
Joel Comm: you know, this is not the first time there's been
Joel Comm: something that's that's happened that that's questionable. The attestation that
Joel Comm: was done by tether probably before you came on in
Joel Comm: 2017 showed that Bitfinex, which is a sister company, transferred
Joel Comm: 382 million to the bank account just before the attestation
Joel Comm: took place and you guys settled the case. Nobody admitted
Joel Comm: or denied. You know, the allegations were true or not,
Joel Comm: but it's certainly suspicious. And that's I think that's why
Joel Comm: people are rightfully so concerned to ask these questions.
Travis Wright: I'm not so. The beauty of the beauty is that
Travis Wright: people should be allowed to ask questions and answers should
Travis Wright: be given. Right. So I'm not annoyed by people asking question.
Travis Wright: Absolutely not. What I'm saying is that this industry, you know,
Travis Wright: my you know, my scene, that everything is easy from
Travis Wright: the outside. But we have fought both with Tether, with bitfinex,
Travis Wright: with hole punch, which seen for the industry more than
Travis Wright: anyone else and why. And everyone was looking at us.
Travis Wright: Many other companies failed. So what I'm saying is that
Travis Wright: questions are always fine, right? So, absolutely. But the problem
Travis Wright: is that what I find I'm finding myself and a
Travis Wright: little bit bitching about it is like being single out
Travis Wright: or like being like that. This black sheep, when you
Travis Wright: know all the mighty heroes are failing around.
Travis Wright: I don't know that they're necessarily going after you or
Travis Wright: targeting you like that. They're just trying to see transparency
Travis Wright: within the space. Right. And my thing would be this
Travis Wright: is that I don't know how what tethers do or
Travis Wright: if they're doing anything wrong. I trust tether I have USD.
Travis Wright: If it collapsed, I would be very sad boy. Right.
Travis Wright: But what I would like to see is some sort
Travis Wright: of proof of transparency within exchanges, right? So it could
Travis Wright: be pretty pot proof of transparency. And any time I'd
Travis Wright: like to look at and see, oh look you know
Travis Wright: tether has this Binance has the oh look the USD
Travis Wright: are USD. Oh I can look and see and it's
Travis Wright: almost like this power if you know in my mind. Right.
Travis Wright: And I think a lot of people's mind is if
Travis Wright: I give you $10,000 or I'm buying tether with $10,000,
Travis Wright: that $2,000 just going to a bank account or something. Right.
Travis Wright: So you could almost be like, oh, we have $65
Travis Wright: million our and there it is. And I, I probably
Travis Wright: shouldn't be so hard if those are the off those
Travis Wright: deposited funds from users are there and not in distributed places.
Travis Wright: That's why a layman would look at that and say, so,
Travis Wright: you know, $65 billion worth of assets, there should be
Travis Wright: $65 billion over here, as long as there's not fractional
Travis Wright: reserve banking going on of some sort and leverage.
Paolo Ardoino: Can I So let me answer to that. Well, we
Paolo Ardoino: have the at the station so people diminish the value
Paolo Ardoino: of the at the station. Yet this station shows exactly
Paolo Ardoino: what we have. Right. The difference between us, the station
Paolo Ardoino: and food audit is that the audit shows also the
Paolo Ardoino: attestation is more punctual, right? We are doing every three months.
Paolo Ardoino: We are trying to make it and we are improving
Paolo Ardoino: our processes to make more, to make it faster so
Paolo Ardoino: that we can read this, release it month. Right? So
Paolo Ardoino: we started from three months and it was taking 45
Paolo Ardoino: to 50 days to do the attestation and to collect
Paolo Ardoino: all the information and provide the information to the auditors
Paolo Ardoino: and do the attestation. Now we are going below the
Paolo Ardoino: 30 days so that we can release this monthly. So
Paolo Ardoino: it's not like we don't have anything. We have exactly
Paolo Ardoino: what the other stablecoins have. And also we if you
Paolo Ardoino: look at the length and the details of our attestation
Paolo Ardoino: is much is far higher than the others. Also, we
Paolo Ardoino: did the very same thing with Bitfinex. With the next
Paolo Ardoino: we release the proof of reserve. So we showed, we
Paolo Ardoino: displayed and we provide all the hot and cold wallet
Paolo Ardoino: addresses of bitfinex. And also we have developed ourself a
Paolo Ardoino: tool I developed with a couple of guys myself, a
Paolo Ardoino: tool called Anthony, that also does proof of liabilities with
Paolo Ardoino: a merkle, with a Merkle tree, and we'd bring signature
Paolo Ardoino: type style of, of, of accounting so that people with
Paolo Ardoino: privacy can verify that what we claimed it should have
Paolo Ardoino: in the in the in the assets is effectively on bitfinex.
Paolo Ardoino: So I agree that the transparency of this industry should
Paolo Ardoino: keep crazy that I'm I'm battling with that I'm working
Paolo Ardoino: also I'm helping my team to achieve that. So I again,
Paolo Ardoino: I'm not saying that we shouldn't be more transparent and
Paolo Ardoino: more transparent. The market transparency shouldn't be asked to everyone
Paolo Ardoino: in this industry. One is right, has the right to
Paolo Ardoino: be scared, especially in this moment. So not saying not to.
Paolo Ardoino: What you are, what they are claim. I'm explaining the
Paolo Ardoino: journey that we had in order to achieve what we
Paolo Ardoino: have today. And also, I'm saying that the journey is
Paolo Ardoino: not finished yet.
Joel Comm: Well, we're definitely working for, you know, everybody in the
Joel Comm: crypto space to to win. We need for USD and
Joel Comm: usdc to survive and not fall apart. Right? So that's
Joel Comm: what we want. But you know, to, to your point
Joel Comm: about attestations, FCX certainly had their attestations, but they were B.S.. Right.
Joel Comm: So the an external audit from a third party definitely
Joel Comm: adds credibility in value. And so you're saying it's likely
Joel Comm: months away. Can you give us like what is a
Joel Comm: drop dead date that you think we can expect to
Joel Comm: see this?
Paolo Ardoino: So first of all, FTX claimed to have a gap
Paolo Ardoino: audit not an attestation made by a third party. So what
Paolo Ardoino: I'm saying is that. All these. So attestations audits are
Paolo Ardoino: extremely important, but also it's important to have facts. So
Paolo Ardoino: the first time someone withdrew from FDX, they went belly
Paolo Ardoino: up because they didn't have the funds. Tether was able
Paolo Ardoino: to redeem $7 million in two days and was able
Paolo Ardoino: to redeem $20 billion in 30 days. Plus, we did
Paolo Ardoino: five $6 billion in the last week or so. Right.
Paolo Ardoino: So the most important so we didn't just prove that
Paolo Ardoino: tether is solid, right? We also proved that the bank,
Paolo Ardoino: our banks are solid. We also proved that our KYC
Paolo Ardoino: and email is solid because it's not like, okay, someone
Paolo Ardoino: has already made money and that's safe, right? The biggest
Paolo Ardoino: redemption that we had in one day as a one
Paolo Ardoino: single transaction was $700 million. Right. So it means that,
Paolo Ardoino: you know, if the receiving bank will see, you know,
Paolo Ardoino: a wire for $700 billion, we'll likely question what that
Paolo Ardoino: is about. And no questions were asked because the KYC,
Paolo Ardoino: AML processes our reporting to regulators, our ability to work
Paolo Ardoino: with law enforcement. We froze, by the way, also with FDX,
Paolo Ardoino: we were the only stablecoin to act immediately and help
Paolo Ardoino: both Bahamas and other law enforcement agencies to freeze assets immediately.
Paolo Ardoino: And we returned more than $200 million to their two
Paolo Ardoino: illegitimate customers within the last two years due to hacks
Paolo Ardoino: and stuff. Right. We are always there. We understand that
Paolo Ardoino: people are relying on tether. And also, I know that
Paolo Ardoino: you understands the scene for their side. So definitely we
Paolo Ardoino: are working towards an audit to answer your question. I
Paolo Ardoino: don't want to give you a specific date. I don't
Paolo Ardoino: know what will happen with the regulators now with FDX.
Paolo Ardoino: So we'll we'll see. We'll have I'm I'm seeing a
Paolo Ardoino: lot of questions around not just stablecoins crypto in general.
Paolo Ardoino: The committee from regulators will say severely impact our industry.
Paolo Ardoino: So we are going we are going to be and
Paolo Ardoino: we are laser focused on the audit. But it will
Paolo Ardoino: take time.
Travis Wright: It. It is interesting. So I would ask this question
Travis Wright: since tether is a stablecoin that's holding all the monies
Travis Wright: sitting there and all stablecoins essentially do that. How do
Travis Wright: those stablecoins actually make money if there is if they're
Travis Wright: not pulling anything from the reserve or pulling any customer
Travis Wright: funds and there's no dividends and there's no reinvesting of
Travis Wright: those funds that come in the tether, like what is
Travis Wright: the business model for these stablecoins to make money so
Travis Wright: that they can continue doing what they do? I bet
Travis Wright: people have that question.
Paolo Ardoino: That's a great question. So we have. So in general,
Paolo Ardoino: stablecoins have well that the asset backed stablecoins like that
Paolo Ardoino: and circle and the others. So I'm not talking about
Paolo Ardoino: Terra and you know, and they centralized stablecoins, right? So
Paolo Ardoino: let's focus on the, the biggest asset or the biggest
Paolo Ardoino: category of stablecoins that I represent. So we have two
Paolo Ardoino: ways of making revenues because the first thing when you
Paolo Ardoino: you talk with a regulator, the first thing that they
Paolo Ardoino: ask you is, is your business model viable and will
Paolo Ardoino: remain viable. So the first way for us to make
Paolo Ardoino: revenues that is unique to tether is issuances and redemption fees.
Paolo Ardoino: We have ten basis points issuance and redemption fee. That
Paolo Ardoino: is really important because when interest rates are bust, our
Paolo Ardoino: are low. You need to maintain a viable business model.
Paolo Ardoino: The in this moment, interest rates on T-bills are really high,
Paolo Ardoino: approaching almost 4% on, you know, a low maturity like
Paolo Ardoino: 3 to 6 months. And so, you know, you can
Paolo Ardoino: make that calculation, right? So how many assets we are
Paolo Ardoino: have under management and multiply by, you know, 3%, let's say,
Paolo Ardoino: on the worst case scenario. Right. So you can understand
Paolo Ardoino: that tether is an extremely profitable business and doesn't need
Paolo Ardoino: to do anything bad in order to make money. We
Paolo Ardoino: don't need to, you know, commingle customer assets. We don't
Paolo Ardoino: need to do crazy things. It's just we hold the
Paolo Ardoino: funds in our bank account. Every time someone wants to
Paolo Ardoino: acquire tether, we make money. When someone wants to redeem tether.
Paolo Ardoino: We didn't make money because we need to also guarantee
Paolo Ardoino: that if, for example, last year interest rates were really low,
Paolo Ardoino: we needed to maintain a viable business model. But you
Paolo Ardoino: can see that if someone so issuing $85 billion of
Paolo Ardoino: tether that was our peak made $85 million in revenues. Right.
Paolo Ardoino: And so then when people redeem you, make money and
Paolo Ardoino: so and so is import. That is the first part.
Paolo Ardoino: And then again now the biggest money, the biggest returns
Paolo Ardoino: are on the interest rates because they are the ones
Paolo Ardoino: that are providing that. Well, since the Fed increased interest rates,
Paolo Ardoino: now they are not the most prominent part in terms
Paolo Ardoino: of earnings.
Joel Comm: So go ahead, Trav.
Travis Wright: Yeah, I have a question around this. So, you know,
Travis Wright: when I pay attention to global politics, right. And I
Travis Wright: do kind of see some things that are happening, it
Travis Wright: looks to me like the dollar is losing power worldwide
Travis Wright: as its reserve currency. Right? It looks like because historically,
Travis Wright: you know, if you wanted to buy oil in your country,
Travis Wright: you have to buy dollars first and then you buy oil. Right.
Travis Wright: And then I saw what was happening with Russia and Ukraine.
Travis Wright: Everyone saw that. But what I saw was the price
Travis Wright: of the of the rupee of the ruble, excuse me,
Travis Wright: was dramatically lower than I thought it should have been.
Travis Wright: I mean, for $1, it was like 115 rubles. And
Travis Wright: I was like, Oh, my God, I would take a
Travis Wright: lot of my stablecoins right now and put them in
Travis Wright: a rueful stablecoin. And if I had done that, I
Travis Wright: would have doubled my money. I can see that happen,
Travis Wright: but I don't have access to a rubles that is stablecoin.
Travis Wright: I didn't see that I have access to a Chinese stablecoin.
Travis Wright: I don't have access to a Brazilian. The BRICS economies. Brazil, Russia, India, China,
Travis Wright: South Africa. I don't have access to Stablecoins in those.
Travis Wright: So when is it going to be a forex component
Travis Wright: to this where I could see, I don't know that
Travis Wright: I trust the U.S. dollar. So in my mind, if
Travis Wright: the US dollar collapses, USD would collapse because there's that
Travis Wright: similar or that similar value there. But at that moment
Travis Wright: I would say I'd like to get out of my
Travis Wright: USD moving in the rupee A Rupal didi even the
Travis Wright: Indian one or the Russian one, right? How is that coming?
Travis Wright: Is that something we're going to be able to do,
Travis Wright: and why is it that we're not able to use
Travis Wright: Stablecoins in other currencies effectively yet?
Paolo Ardoino: So this is a great question. First of all, let
Paolo Ardoino: me tell you that we, in fact, have different flavors
Paolo Ardoino: of tether. So we have tether euro, we have tether
Paolo Ardoino: Chinese yuan offshore and we have tether Mexican pesos and
Paolo Ardoino: we have tether gold. Actually, the reality of things is
Paolo Ardoino: that the no one cares about the euro just just
Paolo Ardoino: very openly. No one cares about the other. So the
Paolo Ardoino: point is that, yes, the BRICS are becoming more and
Paolo Ardoino: more powerful, but at least given our experience, especially in
Paolo Ardoino: emerging markets, everyone wants the dollar, right? So is they
Paolo Ardoino: don't care about anything else they want.
Travis Wright: Which is so weird to me. That's so weird that
Travis Wright: people don't care about it in the crypto space, knowing
Travis Wright: that the Federal Reserve Bank has never been audited and
Travis Wright: knowing that we could potentially be teetering on this global
Travis Wright: economy craziness right now because, you know, we've seen that
Travis Wright: there's a global margin call in the world. That's crazy.
Travis Wright: We saw that the Bank of England was almost bankrupt.
Travis Wright: There's some crazy shit going down and it's almost like,
Travis Wright: what is the best hedge bet for your crypto? If
Travis Wright: the dollar is not the best bet, why would you
Travis Wright: tie them all up in stablecoins tied to the dollar?
Travis Wright: That's my question. But if you're saying most people don't
Travis Wright: give a shit about that, then that tells me most
Travis Wright: people aren't paying attention.
Paolo Ardoino: I agree. Well, actually, the one the only one that
Paolo Ardoino: is working is tether gold. So the gold one is
Paolo Ardoino: well understood. And, you know, there is this sort of
Paolo Ardoino: fight in the crypto war between gold bugs and bitcoiners. Right.
Paolo Ardoino: So but my point at least what I'm seeing is
Paolo Ardoino: that gold is not in competition with Bitcoin. Bitcoin is
Paolo Ardoino: a better version of gold, but actual gold is in
Paolo Ardoino: competition with the dollar and with the other national fiat currencies.
Paolo Ardoino: So that is the thing that actually is working more.
Paolo Ardoino: So we are around $500 million of market cap with
Paolo Ardoino: with tether gold that is not fully backed by.
Travis Wright: What is that USD what is what is the what's the.
Paolo Ardoino: X-A-U-T .
Paolo Ardoino: And u t okay now. All right.
Paolo Ardoino: And so basically the.
Travis Wright: Dude we've been talking about this one for a long
Travis Wright: time to Joe like, yeah, wow. Okay, we're tied to dollars.
Travis Wright: That's great. But I really wouldn't mind being tied to gold.
Travis Wright: This is not a bad idea.
Joel Comm: Yeah, this is actually the next question I had for you.
Joel Comm: So excellent transition that just happened accidentally. So we're looking
Joel Comm: for audits on USD t, Where is the gold?
Paolo Ardoino: So the goal is actually Switzerland. So the gold is
Paolo Ardoino: purely physical, so we don't hold any gold notes or
Paolo Ardoino: you know, or futures is, is fully in Switzerland so
Paolo Ardoino: is reviewed by how is called I don't recall the
Paolo Ardoino: English term sorry.
Joel Comm: Yeah. Them.
Paolo Ardoino: Yeah, that's right. Well, and basically it's fully it's all
Paolo Ardoino: gold bars, you know, around 400 ounces of pure Troy
Paolo Ardoino: fine gold. And the beauty of it is that you
Paolo Ardoino: can actually redeem on four full gold bars. So of course,
Paolo Ardoino: being 400 ounces, you have to redeem for an entire bar.
Paolo Ardoino: We are not going to sue to to start cutting
Paolo Ardoino: the bar. We plan to start using smaller bars for
Paolo Ardoino: allowing smaller redemptions. And we deliver the gold bar anywhere
Paolo Ardoino: in Switzerland, of course, for international shipping is is going
Paolo Ardoino: to be crazy. So, you know, we can ship only
Paolo Ardoino: in Switzerland and so you can come get your gold
Paolo Ardoino: bar and go away and ship it complying to, you know,
Paolo Ardoino: the rules of your own country.
Travis Wright: Well, you can't take it with you because if you enter that country And
Travis Wright: they say, hey, do you have $10,000 more value? Like, Oh, no, no,
Travis Wright: I just got it. Yeah, I got this big ass
Travis Wright: bar gold here. Sorry about that. This is ours now.
Paolo Ardoino: Well, you can do like you can, in fact, reduce,
Paolo Ardoino: you know, you can do smaller, like one kilos bar
Paolo Ardoino: or half a kilos bar and so on. So we are
Paolo Ardoino: starting with that operates it's started recently this, this new
Paolo Ardoino: project and the goal is fully held in Switzerland. I
Paolo Ardoino: mean is Switzerland's been proved to be the safest place
Paolo Ardoino: for gold throughout the history in years. So but that
Paolo Ardoino: is the thing with gold is that I come from
Paolo Ardoino: Italy and now you know it's gold is extremely well
Paolo Ardoino: understood by emigrants from the populations that have always to
Paolo Ardoino: have something, you know, under their pillows because they have
Paolo Ardoino: a you know, they're that geopolitics of debt that those
Paolo Ardoino: eras where kind of weird and crazy. The same happens
Paolo Ardoino: with India, with the with Turkey, with, you know, Venezuela
Paolo Ardoino: and the others. Right. So I think that gold is
Paolo Ardoino: is quite interesting for that aspect. But really, no, no
Paolo Ardoino: way that I mean, from what we are seeing, no
Paolo Ardoino: other national currency has any shot against the dollar. Honestly,
Paolo Ardoino: if you can.
Joel Comm: Explain for me, Paolo, maybe this makes sense in some
Joel Comm: way when I look at the gold price right now
Joel Comm: as we're doing this interview at 1739 an ounce, the
Joel Comm: gold price of excess duty is 1705 dollars. Why is
Joel Comm: there such a discrepancy in the trading price of the
Joel Comm: the tether gold versus the market price of gold right now?
Paolo Ardoino: So we as to keep the market the business model viable,
Paolo Ardoino: we have to apply 25 basis points each to the redemptions. Right? So,
Paolo Ardoino: you know, you have to carry a physical, a goal
Paolo Ardoino: or a goal bar and so on. So of course,
Paolo Ardoino: that's reflected in the price. So if of course, if
Paolo Ardoino: you hold like a gold node or a future that
Paolo Ardoino: is different because you know, you sell it on the
Paolo Ardoino: market and you know, there is there is no actually
Paolo Ardoino: carrying on the underlying, but the, if you will, actually
Paolo Ardoino: selling a piece of a gold bar that has certain
Paolo Ardoino: requirements that also are physical requirements.
Travis Wright: And so and that's actually true to this day, Joel,
Travis Wright: If I try to go to some place and buy
Travis Wright: some physical gold, there's always a little bit of a
Travis Wright: premium on that. If I want to buy gold coins,
Travis Wright: if I want to buy silver coins, there's the spot
Travis Wright: price and then there's the price that it actually is.
Travis Wright: So there is always a little bit of a difference
Travis Wright: and there's not much of a difference really comparatively of
Travis Wright: excess duty versus the price of gold. Comparatively, it would
Travis Wright: seem like it seems a little bit lower, but they'll
Travis Wright: pay for gold is such a problem. Paolo. I mean,
Travis Wright: what is it for Every real physical ounce of gold,
Travis Wright: there's like 500 fake paper ones from COMEX, and it's
Travis Wright: very similar to that with silver for every silver physical ounces,
Travis Wright: 200 plus some odd, some fake ones. And so the
Travis Wright: fact that you're actually pulling in physical ones and stating
Travis Wright: that definitively that is a much bigger thing because realistically
Travis Wright: there's about 500 times less gold in the world than
Travis Wright: the claim and about 200 times less silver than they
Travis Wright: claim overall. Right?
Paolo Ardoino: Yeah, The the basically the point that I hear many
Paolo Ardoino: people doing is that the gold, the price is kept
Paolo Ardoino: low by the immense future markets that, you know are like,
Paolo Ardoino: you know, ten times bigger than the actual gold, you know,
Paolo Ardoino: physical gold market. So back to, you know, in a
Paolo Ardoino: critical geopolitical situation, you know, there might be a breaking
Paolo Ardoino: point where the gold, actual physical gold price cannot be
Paolo Ardoino: kept stable anymore. And that could be an interesting event. Right. So,
Paolo Ardoino: you know, you can say the very same thing goes
Paolo Ardoino: for for Bitcoin, Right. So the size of the future markets,
Paolo Ardoino: I mean, it's.
Travis Wright: That's kind of keeping the price of Bitcoin down maybe
Travis Wright: as those for those futures, which there's a lot of
Travis Wright: traditional financial mechanisms that really shouldn't be in crypto because
Travis Wright: of how they can manipulate things like that. That's always
Travis Wright: been my opinion. As soon as YouTube popped up, you
Travis Wright: could see the market getting weird. You can see some
Travis Wright: of these other things popping out of the market's getting weird.
Travis Wright: So hopefully we keep the weirdness out of crypto and
Travis Wright: only the weird people can stay in crypto like us.
Joel Comm: Yes, crypto needs weirdness. Well, Paolo, appreciate you coming on
Joel Comm: today and letting us put your feet to the fire
Joel Comm: a little bit. I'm sure we're not the first and
Joel Comm: we won't be the last and we will be looking
Joel Comm: forward to a few months from now. Hopefully, as you say,
Joel Comm: seeing this outside audit and allaying people's fears even further.
Joel Comm: But let's hope USD Usdc remains as stable as promised.
Paolo Ardoino: Absolutely will. Thank you very much, guys. Was it really fun?
Joel Comm: Well. Travis, how do you feel about that? Do you
Joel Comm: feel like Pablo answered the questions to the satisfaction of
Joel Comm: yourself and to our listeners?
Travis Wright: Well, I think that he definitely put some some insights
Travis Wright: on it that we maybe didn't have. And he says that, well,
Travis Wright: it's very secure. So, of course, somebody in his position
Travis Wright: would say that's I guess we shall see. So, you know,
Travis Wright: you stablecoins at your own risk of stability or instability.
Travis Wright: It's up to you. Mm hmm.
Joel Comm: Mm hmm. So we appreciate you guys listening and we
Joel Comm: appreciate reviews. Good, bad or indifferent, we tell you, hey,
Joel Comm: if you're going to if you really like the show,
Joel Comm: give us a five star review and feel free to
Joel Comm: be funny. If you're just going to be a whiny
Joel Comm: little bitch, then you know why? Why bother, right? Why
Joel Comm: put that out there? Well, this guy did e y
Joel Comm: c s f c a a reviewed us with a
Joel Comm: one star review stoking election conspiracies. I've enjoyed some of
Joel Comm: the industry insights, but stoking a lecturing election conspiracies make
Joel Comm: me question their credibility. Friend, The fact that you are
Joel Comm: not questioning the elections totally makes me question your credibility
Joel Comm: and your ability to be a self thinker. I mean,
Joel Comm: this is here's how bad it is, Travis, that in
Joel Comm: Mojave County, the gentleman on the board, Mojave County that
Joel Comm: has to certify the votes was told that if he
Joel Comm: did not certify the votes, he was committing a felony
Joel Comm: and would be arrested. So he.
Travis Wright: Saw.
Joel Comm: That. He said that. And he's like, all right, so
Joel Comm: I vote I, I mean, is this America? If that doesn't.
Travis Wright: If you don't certify, you're getting a felony. Like, well,
Travis Wright: but if it's incorrect, do you get a felony? I mean,
Travis Wright: who's who's giving out the felonies while the head of
Travis Wright: the the head of the election committee over there was
Travis Wright: actually one of the people who was running for governor
Travis Wright: like that in itself. He should be like, I need
Travis Wright: to stand down on this one, you know.
Joel Comm: So we we got we got one star review from
Joel Comm: this fella. Sorry to see you go. Hopefully you will
Joel Comm: be more open minded in the future to the fact
Joel Comm: that you might be eating up some of the narrative
Joel Comm: that they're feeding you on the little spoon out of
Joel Comm: the baby food jar.
Travis Wright: Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Gerber, I'm glad to see you go.
Travis Wright: I'm glad to see you go. If you're an idiot,
Travis Wright: get out of here. I don't want to talk to
Travis Wright: the media.
Joel Comm: We welcome idiots.
Travis Wright: Well, we welcome some idiots, but you got to be
Travis Wright: a free thinking idiot.
Joel Comm: I you Listen, I don't have everything right. There's many
Joel Comm: times in my life that. That I know I.
Travis Wright: Want to read a joke. I want to read in Idiot.
Joel Comm: This guy, though, gave us four stars. John K 53, 74,
Joel Comm: four stars. This show is reasonably funny. Which you know
Joel Comm: what that is? High praise.
Travis Wright: We are reasonably funny.
Joel Comm: If we can get by with reasonably funny. Yeah, that's
Joel Comm: pretty good.
Travis Wright: That's it. Maybe me and you by a lot. Welcome
Travis Wright: to the Bad Crypto podcast. We're reasonably.
Joel Comm: Profitable. Funny, I like and we're in.
Travis Wright: It for and according to some were not reasonable. Was unreasonable, unreasonable, unreasonable, irrational.
Travis Wright: We don't even know how to say it. So I
Travis Wright: like that we're not unreasonable when it comes to things
Travis Wright: that you don't like wearing or unreasonable.
Joel Comm: No, we're very reasonable.
Travis Wright: Or air reasonable.
Joel Comm: The the bad crypto nifty club. It's rock and roll
Joel Comm: and every day people are signing up You might want
Joel Comm: to as well because we're dropping free nfts. In fact,
Joel Comm: our next episode is going to welcome back G. Edward Griffin.
Joel Comm: This dude is a living legend. You don't want to
Joel Comm: miss this. And I could tell you now that there
Joel Comm: is going to be a free NFT. So to join
Joel Comm: the Bad crypto Nifty Club, go to bed crypto dot
Joel Comm: Uncut dot FM as you see here, and you're going
Joel Comm: to want to scroll through the John McAfee ones, though
Joel Comm: some of those are for purchase but the bad crypto
Joel Comm: nifty club right here, this is the one you need
Joel Comm: to own to get the free airdrops and it's going
Joel Comm: to cost you $2 million. No, that's not right. $2.42
Joel Comm: as of right now, .002 wrapped ether. That's to keep
Joel Comm: the bots away and then the free airdrops are going
Joel Comm: to come your way. So really.
Travis Wright: Bots, we're keeping the bots away. Hey, you know, last
Travis Wright: night I listened to I watched. Have you seen this yet?
Travis Wright: Bo Burnham has insights special that he did when he
Travis Wright: was just inside the house. No, we seen yet. Oh,
Travis Wright: my God. I will go on and say it's borderline
Travis Wright: creative genius. Okay. That's what they say, that Netflix and
Travis Wright: I will say this. It's so funny that Netflix was
Travis Wright: basically like, okay, we want another special now. Do you
Travis Wright: have any outtakes from it? And so he basically created
Travis Wright: another one called Outtakes from Inside, and he saved that
Travis Wright: house for 200 and some odd days creating this thing.
Travis Wright: And he made all the songs that he made all
Travis Wright: the videos for each one of the songs that all
Travis Wright: the lighting. It's it's impressive. I was I had just
Travis Wright: listened to somebody play the song called White Woman's Instagram.
Travis Wright: And I was laughing. I listened to the song on Spotify.
Travis Wright: I was like, Haha. And then he had another song
Travis Wright: that was catchy and I was like, Oh, that's good.
Travis Wright: And then I realized it was on Netflix. And as
Travis Wright: I don't normally peruse Netflix all that much, but I
Travis Wright: went and watched it. I was I was blown away
Travis Wright: by the new genius. I think that he's pretty and
Travis Wright: he's pretty aware too. So when you read between the lines,
Travis Wright: you can see how he kind of thinks.
Joel Comm: Travis is totally UNsponsored pitch for Bo Burnham. I'm going
Joel Comm: to go give it a I'll give it a watch
Joel Comm: for sure.
Travis Wright: I was like.
Joel Comm: Hey, what? Trevor We got a bunch of voicemails from people.
Joel Comm: What would you think of doing a listener feedback show
Joel Comm: here in the near future?
Travis Wright: I think near future sounds good. Let's do that. I
Travis Wright: think in the very near future I'm going to eat
Travis Wright: some food though.
Joel Comm: So here's what you guys need to do. If you
Joel Comm: want to be in the feedback show, email us at
Joel Comm: Bat crypto podcast at gmail.com. You can ask us questions,
Joel Comm: you can give us feedback, tell us what you think.
Joel Comm: You can just tell us, stay bad, tell us, you
Joel Comm: know what? How the show has has helped you or
Joel Comm: hurt how we've.
Travis Wright: Learned it, how we've landed credence to conspiracy theories.
Joel Comm: Yeah, that's all good. I don't know.
Travis Wright: You know, Joe, I don't really know Joe. Conspiracy theories
Travis Wright: like 18 an hour right now. So I don't know
Travis Wright: how somebody can come out and be like we're.
Joel Comm: As a realist or call us. Here's the bad crypto
Joel Comm: hotline number 7088859030708 85 9030. Call us. We'd love to
Joel Comm: hear your voice and we'd especially love to hear from
Joel Comm: the crypto check's like and we know you're out there.
Joel Comm: Don't be shy. Call us ask questions, give feedback. Tell
Joel Comm: us a joke. Tell us to stay bad. Tell us
Joel Comm: to get lost. Whatever you want. Like Will and will.
Joel Comm: Gather those up and do a listener show. We'll put
Joel Comm: the spotlight on you guys here sometime in the near future.
Travis Wright: Yeah, we're going to do it for episode number 666.
Joel Comm: Oh, that would actually be like the episode of The Beast.
Travis Wright: I might be just bullshit. I know what episode where
Travis Wright: we are now.
Joel Comm: This is 655 and we're glad that you guys listen.
Joel Comm: Thanks again. We'll catch you on the next episode with G.
Joel Comm: Edward Griffin. Until then, stay at.
Travis Wright: Reasonably bad.
Travis Wright: Who's bad?
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