Joel Comm: A long time ago in a galaxy pretty much identical
Joel Comm: to this one. Some pointy headed nerds built the foundation
Joel Comm: of the Internet. One of those pointy headed nerds was
Joel Comm: the CEO of Mozilla, a co-founder of the Firefox browser
Joel Comm: and the creator of JavaScript. Today, he is the creator
Joel Comm: of the Brave Browser, a wonderful privacy based alternative to
Joel Comm: Chrome and the rest of the corporate browsers. His name
Joel Comm: is Brendan Eich and he joins us to discuss the
Joel Comm: early days of the web, the mess that he helped
Joel Comm: create and how he is helping to clean it up
Joel Comm: and lead us into a decentralized web3 world. Join us
Joel Comm: for a discussion with this brave legend on our Pioneers.
Joel Comm: Get all the heroes. Episode number 653. Of the Bad
Joel Comm: Crypto podcast.
UU: 503000 What do I do? Who's Bad?
Joel Comm: Greetings, Brave.
Joel Comm: Journey Men and Journey Women and Journey Persons And Journey
Joel Comm: is a really good band. Even like after Steve Perry,
Joel Comm: it's a bad crypto podcast show for the crypto curious
Joel Comm: and the crypto serious that is brave the Lord. Travis Right.
Joel Comm: And I am also brave. So Lord Joel, calm and
Joel Comm: you are brave. Fill in the blank.
Travis Wright: Mm hmm. And Joel's just a city boy born and
Travis Wright: raised in New Chicago. Very nice. This. This is a
Travis Wright: fun episode, guys. I mean, long time coming on this one.
Travis Wright: I don't know which all. I have a conversation after
Travis Wright: we interviewed Brendon, and we were like, Hmm, who is
Travis Wright: comparable to this guy? Right? This guy essentially was one
Travis Wright: of the guys who helped build the browser the way
Travis Wright: we know it, right? I mean, he invented JavaScript. He
Travis Wright: he was really early in Netscape, which Netscape was an
Travis Wright: evolution of Mosaic, which was the very first that I
Travis Wright: know of. Right. And then went on to create Mozilla Firefox.
Travis Wright: And then, I mean, embrace this. This is an Internet legend.
Travis Wright: He's a pioneer of Web one, Web two and now
Travis Wright: Web three. And we got him all that crypto and
Travis Wright: we're bringing him to you.
Joel Comm: And what's really interesting about it is you discover some
Joel Comm: of the mistakes he made along the way that was
Joel Comm: kind of oops, especially as it came to tracking people's
Joel Comm: behavior and how that turned into a really bad thing.
Joel Comm: But then he talks about what he's doing to fix it.
Joel Comm: I think you guys are really going to enjoy this
Joel Comm: here discussion with the one and only. Brendan, I. It's
Joel Comm: been more than a hot minute since we have talked
Joel Comm: about the brave browser. And in fact, we've been talking
Joel Comm: about the brave browser for five and five years, I
Joel Comm: would say, of hot minutes as a alternative to using
Joel Comm: evil Google Chrome on your your computer. If you want
Joel Comm: to keep your data in your privacy is the way
Joel Comm: to go. This is not a paid advertisement. This is
Joel Comm: not a commercial. This is actual recommendations because we use brave,
Joel Comm: we like it. And what really excites us is today
Joel Comm: we have the CEO and co-founder of Brave, Brendan Eich
Joel Comm: is joining us right now. And we're going to talk
Joel Comm: about all kinds of things. Brendan, welcome to the Bad
Joel Comm: Crypto podcast.
Brendan Eich: Don't forget that.
Travis Wright: Yes, the Netscape thing, that Mozilla thing, but most important,
Travis Wright: micro unity.
Joel Comm: Yeah, he's he's got quite a background. You were the CTO,
Joel Comm: then CEO of Mozilla and you helped launch the Firefox
Joel Comm: browser and you're also the inventor of JavaScript, which is
Joel Comm: the world's most popular programming language. So you know, that
Joel Comm: little thing happened. And then of course you founded the
Joel Comm: brave browser. So why, why found brave? Go ahead and
Joel Comm: tell us your reasons, especially after having launched a successful
Joel Comm: browser and Firefox that you thought we need brave.
Brendan Eich: Right. So when we did Firefox, we were not as
Brendan Eich: conscious about privacy as we are now. And we did
Brendan Eich: this search deal with Google, which at the time was
Brendan Eich: a great search engine. It hadn't become a big alphabet
Brendan Eich: company full of all sorts of different businesses. That all
Brendan Eich: seemed to be lost. Leaders for the ad exchange business,
Brendan Eich: which is the main revenue leg of Google. We also
Brendan Eich: and in Firefox, we let the privacy conscious users do
Brendan Eich: all extensions for themselves and then grow those extensions. We
Brendan Eich: called them add ons back in the day. So when
Brendan Eich: I left was I sat for a long time thinking
Brendan Eich: about two big problems. One is that browsers, if it
Brendan Eich: gets access successful, tend to be captured by a big
Brendan Eich: tech company, like a search company, which is really an
Brendan Eich: ad exchange like Google or in the nineties by an
Brendan Eich: operating system company, which is really a word in Excel.
Brendan Eich: The Sweet Company that was Microsoft. And I also wanted
Brendan Eich: to help users have a direct say in not only
Brendan Eich: their privacy but sort of economics on the Web and users,
Brendan Eich: if they're just eyeballs to be counted in favor of,
Brendan Eich: you know, ad traffic or ad revenue, they're not treated
Brendan Eich: as as first parties or principals in the economics. They're
Brendan Eich: just kind of. Farm animals that get sheared of wool
Brendan Eich: every spring and shiver. And that's how people in the
Brendan Eich: nineties talked about our users. They were eyeballs. You are
Brendan Eich: monetizing eyeballs. User attention was creating a new data economy.
Brendan Eich: Data was the new oil, which is a nonsense statement
Brendan Eich: of our third one. And with Brave, I wanted to
Brendan Eich: do something that was much more direct. It put users
Brendan Eich: directly in the revenue share for private ads if they wanted.
Brendan Eich: It allowed them to directly transact on blockchains with other
Brendan Eich: parties to send money to. You all support your favorite YouTuber. So,
Brendan Eich: you know, being disintermediated, being creator, economy, that's what was
Brendan Eich: on my mind. And to do both of those things,
Brendan Eich: privacy and I would say direct economic user first participation
Brendan Eich: required thinking about how to marry cryptocurrencies and security including privacy.
Travis Wright: Right. So, you know, it's always been fascinating. You know,
Travis Wright: being in Joe and I have both been in the
Travis Wright: Internet since the beginning, really. I mean, Joel was one
Travis Wright: of the first, what, 10,000 websites that was created or
Travis Wright: something like that with with World Village. I got online
Travis Wright: in 96 and I've been paying attention to things. And so,
Travis Wright: you know, I remember AOL buying Netscape. I remember when
Travis Wright: when when Bill Gates didn't even think that Netflix and
Travis Wright: Netscape was even something to be concerned about, and they
Travis Wright: didn't even have a browser yet. So these are these
Travis Wright: are yeah, this is really early on. So you're you're
Travis Wright: you're really early on in Web one. I would almost
Travis Wright: say you were in Web point five right through Mosaic
Travis Wright: became net Netscape. I keep want to say Netflix. If
Travis Wright: I say Netflix just mad me, it's not intentional. So
Travis Wright: it's like, what? What did that really early internet sorta
Travis Wright: teach you? Because you were like the chief architect. You
Travis Wright: were building stuff really early with, with with Netscape. So
Travis Wright: how did that sort of forming and, and, and maybe
Travis Wright: how did that get in the JavaScript? Because you create,
Travis Wright: you build some really kickass foundational things for the Internet
Travis Wright: that we all use today. Many of us probably take
Travis Wright: that for granted.
Brendan Eich: Well, thank you. As you mentioned, I was at my
Brendan Eich: community one more year than I should have been, so
Brendan Eich: I missed the founding of Netscape. I came in the
Brendan Eich: second year pretty much second chronological year of age, and
Brendan Eich: I did JavaScript in a big hurry because it wasn't
Brendan Eich: clear with Java, the Big Brother language from Sun to
Brendan Eich: people at Netscape and to most people at Sun that
Brendan Eich: we needed JavaScript. But Marc Andreessen of Netscape and Bill
Brendan Eich: Joy of Sun and I argued that we did for
Brendan Eich: the same reason that Microsoft had Visual Basic as well
Brendan Eich: as Visual C++ and its stack. So you had one
Brendan Eich: scripting language that was dynamic and easier to use for
Brendan Eich: a great number of people to use to glue things together,
Brendan Eich: build apps, patch things. And you had a more expert
Brendan Eich: language for the component builders. So that was the idea
Brendan Eich: behind JavaScript. But to just recapture the feeling of the
Brendan Eich: early web web one days, the PC was dominant. We
Brendan Eich: all sat in front of big bottle monitors. We played
Brendan Eich: Quake right after Doom. We were on Lands. We we
Brendan Eich: didn't necessarily have great home Internet connectivity. AOL had City
Brendan Eich: bombed the country to get people online through dial up
Brendan Eich: and people were starting to get faster, you know, the
Brendan Eich: street multi-tool and whatever it's called.
Travis Wright: I found one of those recently, by the way. I
Travis Wright: found an old floppy disk where I was like, Oh
Travis Wright: my God, this one is super early.
Brendan Eich: But one of the things this meant was you had
Brendan Eich: to be your own system administrator of your home PC,
Brendan Eich: and that was hard for people. But it was good
Brendan Eich: in the sense that you didn't just rent the device
Brendan Eich: from an Apple or Google and they treated it like theirs.
Brendan Eich: And you were just the sheep to share of a wall.
Brendan Eich: Like I said earlier, you really were a participant. You
Brendan Eich: would buy games especially. But other apps, productivity apps, security apps,
Brendan Eich: you would go down to Fry's and buy stuff, right?
Brendan Eich: So this was more of a of a user sovereign world.
Brendan Eich: It was the world where you could do your own thing,
Brendan Eich: you could upgrade your graphics card, you could try stuff,
Brendan Eich: you know, you could participate in hacking on software for
Brendan Eich: the PC. And when I did JavaScript, it became very
Brendan Eich: easy for people to hack on websites in a way
Brendan Eich: that was programmed. It was enlivened with dynamic responses, not
Brendan Eich: just on the server side, but on the client side.
Brendan Eich: And so what we were trying to do with Netscape
Brendan Eich: was make the web lively and useful. We wanted to
Brendan Eich: have images that was done at Mosaic and maybe we
Brendan Eich: wanted to have cookies so you could log into your
Brendan Eich: bank and then navigate around your different account views without
Brendan Eich: having to log in every time because the HTP protocol
Brendan Eich: was stateless, so it would not remember who you were
Brendan Eich: and there was no way without cookies to keep track
Brendan Eich: of you. So in some ways you could say tracking
Brendan Eich: was invented through the cookie, but it was a good
Brendan Eich: kind of tracking. It was. First party, the site you
Brendan Eich: go to intentionally, the site you need to know is
Brendan Eich: really your bank and not an imposter phishing site. And
Brendan Eich: that's still true to this day. So that was what
Brendan Eich: you to before we didn't think about and I'm going
Brendan Eich: to set Netscape a year late and people wanted to
Brendan Eich: fix it, but it was too late. Was that between
Brendan Eich: images and cookies, there was an easy way to trap
Brendan Eich: users across the web and build up a profile.
Joel Comm: And then that became something that was leveraged by, you know,
Joel Comm: big tech and say, okay, we can we can weaponize
Joel Comm: this not just for ad dollars, but against our so-called enemies.
Brendan Eich: It was leveraged in many ways and that term is
Brendan Eich: used in finance. It was even used that way because
Brendan Eich: a lot of the tricks that were used with ad
Brendan Eich: tech were sort of like financial trickery or, you know,
Brendan Eich: promising something for nothing. And when advertising technology evolved and
Brendan Eich: Google was a big part of this, but there was
Brendan Eich: always a big sea of vendors out there in the
Brendan Eich: so-called Loomis scape. They all depended on these things from
Brendan Eich: the nineties, the image, the cookie and scripts, JavaScript. And
Brendan Eich: so I created a monster.
Travis Wright: So, yeah, as you see, you inadvertently created something and
Travis Wright: you were like, Well, so so is this a moment
Travis Wright: where you're like, Wow, there's some crime, not only linger
Travis Wright: lingering out there, I better do something to kind of
Travis Wright: unravel this. And is that what you thought when you
Travis Wright: then went over to Mozilla?
Brendan Eich: I think with Mozilla, we we definitely wanted to take
Brendan Eich: back the Web and show that the browser was not
Brendan Eich: going to be Internet Explorer and Windows forever, which is
Brendan Eich: what people would say, Oh, you can't drive a new
Brendan Eich: browser and get traction. Microsoft cornered the market and you
Brendan Eich: should just give up. And they were wrong. We showed
Brendan Eich: that with Firefox. We restarted the market. We showed Sergey
Brendan Eich: Brin in particular and Larry Page of Google. And they
Brendan Eich: they liked it so much. They made Chrome eventually and
Brendan Eich: Safari at the same time. Steve Jobs saw the value
Brendan Eich: of the web. So Safari was around the same time
Brendan Eich: as Firefox 0.9 or eight because that's.
Travis Wright: Really because Bill Gates and the Explorer there was now
Travis Wright: he's like, all right. Then he finally built the Explorer
Travis Wright: and then it got up to like 90 something percent
Travis Wright: of the people were 95% of the people were using that.
Travis Wright: So of course, they needed an alternative because I remember
Travis Wright: the floods. As soon as I found out about Firefox,
Travis Wright: I was gone. Oh, how moving?
Brendan Eich: Yeah. Pop ups. Remember that lack of tabs and ActiveX
Brendan Eich: and other security holes? Microsoft walked away from it. They
Brendan Eich: put it under of a skeleton crew because they thought
Brendan Eich: they could go back and do Windows Vista and get
Brendan Eich: good old fashioned Monopoly lock in like they had in
Brendan Eich: the nineties. And they totally missed the Web 2.0 so-called.
Brendan Eich: That's what John and Tim called it. But the point zero,
Brendan Eich: which is kind of nerdy revolution that was happening through
Brendan Eich: JavaScript and Moore's Law and browser innovation like in Firefox
Brendan Eich: and Safari and Opera, and they also missed mobile, right?
Brendan Eich: Even though they were doing things with Nokia, they missed
Brendan Eich: the iPhone. So Microsoft, in my view, miscalculated. But they definitely,
Brendan Eich: after becoming a monopoly power with the browser, they just
Brendan Eich: abandoned their explorer, they went to.
Joel Comm: Running and now they've got Edge, which is a stupid,
Joel Comm: you know, browser that they bundle with the machine. And
Joel Comm: of course, Chrome became dominant. Firefox, you know, certainly had
Joel Comm: its share, but Chrome became dominant. Google is evil and
Joel Comm: they removed the.
Brendan Eich: New monopoly.
Joel Comm: And they're monopoly and you don't there's no reason to
Joel Comm: use Google Chrome. It's harder to get off Gmail and
Joel Comm: docs and calendar and I'm working on it myself. But
Joel Comm: it's easy to get off Chrome because Brave is a
Joel Comm: great alternative. And you know, when I started using it,
Joel Comm: there was probably, I don't know, maybe a million or so,
Joel Comm: half a million users. Now you got 60 million active
Joel Comm: users a month. I mean, and that's still just a
Joel Comm: drop in the bucket for what it needs to be
Joel Comm: for people to reclaim their privacy.
Brendan Eich: Yeah, and you're right. We have to make it easy
Brendan Eich: to get off chrome, which, you know, in this world
Brendan Eich: we live in. When you have some open source project
Brendan Eich: like Mozilla or what Steve Jobs forked into web kit,
Brendan Eich: which was originally called HTML, and then Chrome forked into
Brendan Eich: the link and part of the chromium project, there's a
Brendan Eich: sort of successful set of genes there. It's almost like,
Brendan Eich: you know, immune system genes or disease resistance genes, and
Brendan Eich: those are not going to die. So people sometimes complain
Brendan Eich: preinstalled on chromium, the open source that Google runs to
Brendan Eich: build chromium, but it's also what edge is built on.
Brendan Eich: Samsung browser is built on it, Yandex Opera and many others.
Brendan Eich: So my my point here is that they're successful sort
Brendan Eich: of open source DNA and we all share it and
Brendan Eich: use it. And some of it goes back to Mozilla.
Brendan Eich: So it's not all Google and a lot of it
Brendan Eich: goes back to Apple Web case. But then there's what
Brendan Eich: you do with the product that gives the user a
Brendan Eich: fair deal, and that is something Google will not do.
Brendan Eich: They're still talking about blocking so-called third party cookies. Those
Brendan Eich: are the ones from the embedded invisible pixels and scripts
Brendan Eich: that track you. And they they just kick the can
Brendan Eich: down the road again, delayed when they get rid of
Brendan Eich: third party cookies in almost every other browser. The browser
Brendan Eich: out there now does protect you to some degree from
Brendan Eich: those tracking cookies. Brave does the best job, but it's
Brendan Eich: become standard except for Chrome, because Google is fundamentally this
Brendan Eich: big ad exchange business.
Travis Wright: I actually was Joel that you would have a one year.
Travis Wright: I'll have those cookies. Yeah, the Internet cookies. Sure you have.
Brendan Eich: Yeah. Yeah.
Travis Wright: Sorry. I went to.
Joel Comm: I got my psycho bunny on instead.
Travis Wright: Now, that's good. So, you know, now here we are.
Travis Wright: You have brave. And what would you sort of you know,
Travis Wright: it says it's private. It's better. Why? Let's say somebody
Travis Wright: is tuning in to listen to bad trip out because
Travis Wright: they don't even know why. We haven't talked about Brave
Travis Wright: for probably a year or so. I know Joe mentions
Travis Wright: it sometimes it's like because he doesn't use Chrome at all. Actually,
Travis Wright: on my computer downstairs, I don't really use chrome, but
Travis Wright: up here only Chrome was on. So I'm actually I'm
Travis Wright: on Chrome right now, but I haven't had the power
Travis Wright: that Brave downloaded yet. But now I just got it downloaded.
Travis Wright: What what would you say to people as to why
Travis Wright: you want to get on this? What's that? What's that
Travis Wright: that action for them and why would they even care?
Brendan Eich: Right. So brave blocks all privacy threats by default, and
Brendan Eich: there's tons of them on the web, not just third
Brendan Eich: party cookies. There's fingerprinting methods, there's redirect bounce trackers. There's
Brendan Eich: all sorts of crazy hairy surface on the Web APIs
Brendan Eich: that can be used for tracking, and it can also
Brendan Eich: be used for good. If you go to a site
Brendan Eich: like your bank where you want to have that trusted relationship.
Brendan Eich: So you have to block the bad but keep the good.
Brendan Eich: This is an ongoing research and development agenda. We do
Brendan Eich: it and you see it in the product in the
Brendan Eich: form of a rape shield. It's the lion's shield at
Brendan Eich: the right end of the address bar. And that's that's
Brendan Eich: the privacy part of Brave. Right next to it is
Brendan Eich: the Bat logo. That's the basic attention token. That's the
Brendan Eich: feeling the user in for Brave Rewards, part of a
Brendan Eich: great user value proposition. But we we made privacy on
Brendan Eich: by default and the web standards didn't I'm sorry Netscape
Brendan Eich: did we kind of missed about even if Firefox did
Brendan Eich: not make browsing on by default Safari probably do the
Brendan Eich: jobs did they did private windows as an option in
Brendan Eich: Safari before they were added to Firefox and they're now
Brendan Eich: standard in all browsers. These are windows that just forget
Brendan Eich: your your history and you don't save any cookies after
Brendan Eich: you close the window. And that's not enough. It doesn't
Brendan Eich: give you network privacy. It doesn't protect you from from
Brendan Eich: this tracking and privacy threat that is out there through ads.
Brendan Eich: So we've made privacy by default happen for all the
Brendan Eich: tracking threats. This just blocks all the ads. We've watched
Brendan Eich: the YouTube pre-roll ads. So Brave is the best YouTube
Brendan Eich: app out there. By the way. This is something people
Brendan Eich: are starting to appreciate that adds more ads. Yeah, No.
Brendan Eich: As they overload the ads to push you in the
Brendan Eich: YouTube premium, people are saying, Hey brave, this is already
Brendan Eich: I can block ads for free.
Travis Wright: Yeah I hate that I later. Oh, so for a
Travis Wright: month free, I know I'm not going to ever sign
Travis Wright: up so never. Basically brave is sort of like an
Travis Wright: anti-virus malware protection tool completely.
Brendan Eich: That's right. In fact, malware went into ad tech. The
Brendan Eich: malware distributors wanted to get machines taken over for ransomware
Brendan Eich: originally for botnet conversion to do ads. Right. So they
Brendan Eich: would put little exploit kit scripts hidden inside real ads
Brendan Eich: they would pay to run in cheap slots on online sites.
Brendan Eich: And that was that's one of the threats we block.
Brendan Eich: So there are actual dangers out there. You know, people
Brendan Eich: could trap you, surveil, you spy on your boy. You
Brendan Eich: there's there's malware distribution, too. But just the privacy raid
Brendan Eich: also hurts you because we hear about data breaches every year.
Brendan Eich: So all these adtech vendors are trying to profile you
Brendan Eich: for their own business, their own exit to some bigger company,
Brendan Eich: their own return on the venture capital investment. Most of
Brendan Eich: that's dying now and it's consolidated around Google and a
Brendan Eich: few other big players Facebook, Twitter. But this privacy cost
Brendan Eich: is not just that you might have a data breach
Brendan Eich: or you feel spied on. You feel targeted by creepy ads.
Brendan Eich: It's also that those scripts that keep running to target
Brendan Eich: you in place, those ads burn your battery, especially on mobile,
Brendan Eich: because they're running the radio a lot more like 40%
Brendan Eich: more than if you block them. And so you get
Brendan Eich: a real performance winning page load and rendering. You get
Brendan Eich: a real battery savings with brave. And this is measured
Brendan Eich: independently by outfit UK called Green Spectre. In 2019, they
Brendan Eich: showed a nice chart on Android. Brave was the winner
Brendan Eich: in terms of battery savings and our own research team
Brendan Eich: study just came to the same results. So it's an
Brendan Eich: honest result. We walk so many scripts and reduce the
Brendan Eich: traffic on the net and this also plays into your
Brendan Eich: data plan. If you pay for that and everybody does
Brendan Eich: pay ultimately somehow that there's a real savings to the privacy.
Brendan Eich: And privacy means power of battery savings. It means faster
Brendan Eich: paid for it.
Joel Comm: Well, and there's a lot of things that are built
Joel Comm: into the browser that that I really like. When you
Joel Comm: go to the settings, you know, I like that you
Joel Comm: continue where you left off. You can easily import all
Joel Comm: your bookmarks from, you know, wherever you haven't. So you
Joel Comm: can go to Chrome and export your whole HTML file
Joel Comm: and import them and organize them. Here you've got rewards
Joel Comm: for if you decide to watch ads, but you've also got,
Joel Comm: you know, a built in wallet. You've got built in ipfs,
Joel Comm: which is useful for next year. This is there's a
Joel Comm: lot of functionality. All I've only encountered, I think one
Joel Comm: Chrome extension that didn't work in my brave browser, but
Joel Comm: ever all the extensions for all my wallets and LastPass
Joel Comm: and all those things metamask, they all work great.
Brendan Eich: They should. We took out the Google account system support
Brendan Eich: that extensions can use, but most don't because that's actually
Brendan Eich: a tracking vector to when Google realized that people weren't
Brendan Eich: logging in to the browser. You still want to log
Brendan Eich: into Chrome in the upper right corner. They said, Well,
Brendan Eich: darn it, we'll just log you in to our, you know,
Brendan Eich: the browser. Any time you log in, in any tab
Brendan Eich: to YouTube or Gmail or one of our other log
Brendan Eich: in services, and that tracks you across all tabs. So
Brendan Eich: Google turns Chrome into spyware. They made it part of
Brendan Eich: their ad business, and I can understand this. They have
Brendan Eich: to do this as a public company, but that's the
Brendan Eich: opposite what we want. So we ripped out all that
Brendan Eich: that Google account tracking and that maybe what broke that extension.
Travis Wright: So I want to talk a little bit more about mobile. Right.
Travis Wright: Because it would seem to me that you using desktop
Travis Wright: or your laptop brave is a great solution. But if
Travis Wright: you're using your mobile device, which everyone is, it almost
Travis Wright: seems like brave's pretty much the only solution because it
Travis Wright: speeds everything up, it kills your battery less, right? So
Travis Wright: it's like, yeah, maybe talk a bit more about mobile
Travis Wright: because I think that's just completely brilliant what you guys
Travis Wright: are doing.
Brendan Eich: Yeah, that's where the real battery savings comes in because
Brendan Eich: all this ad scripting overload that we block really does
Brendan Eich: run the radio, and the radio is a number one
Brendan Eich: or two consumer of the battery. The screen is usually
Brendan Eich: the number one consumer. But when you load a bunch
Brendan Eich: of scripts in Chrome, it's going to go crazy on
Brendan Eich: your radio that's going to drain the battery. So it's
Brendan Eich: also going to delay page loads sometimes because the mobile
Brendan Eich: web came later, a lot of the publishers didn't update
Brendan Eich: their designs. Well, many have by now, but you have
Brendan Eich: pages on mobile that will never load because of all
Brendan Eich: this crazy scripting and ad tech. So we block all
Brendan Eich: that and there's a huge savings to your battery. It
Brendan Eich: makes the page load faster. It's much more responsive. We
Brendan Eich: do a great job with YouTube, so I do my
Brendan Eich: I keep an eye on the YouTube app just for
Brendan Eich: misery and to see what the ad pre-roll ads are
Brendan Eich: and keep up with the Joneses. But it's a bad app.
Brendan Eich: So in Brave we have something, we'll bring it to Android.
Brendan Eich: It's already on iOS called Playlist. If you load a
Brendan Eich: YouTube video or another video on a different site, you'll
Brendan Eich: see a button up and the address bar on the
Brendan Eich: right to add the playlist. And you can open that
Brendan Eich: video on the playlist. And it for me seamlessly switches
Brendan Eich: over to a custom video player. There's no ads and
Brendan Eich: you can save it for watching later. You can play
Brendan Eich: it when you're offline on a train. You can do
Brendan Eich: all sorts of things that you should be allowed to do.
Brendan Eich: You cannot easily get the file out or pirated, but
Brendan Eich: that's okay. You're just viewing it. This is something that any.
Brendan Eich: Web browser should be able to deal with any web
Brendan Eich: video that's put out in a standards way, conforming way
Brendan Eich: without DRM. And that's what most of YouTube is. So
Brendan Eich: playlist is something I encourage people to check out on
Brendan Eich: iOS coming to Android. It's really great for YouTube. You
Brendan Eich: can save it and playlist. Watch it later. If you
Brendan Eich: get interrupted, you don't worry about losing where you were
Brendan Eich: in the YouTube mobile or web app. It's in your playlist.
Travis Wright: I want to add something it's just going to follow
Travis Wright: up on. This is one of my favorite, you know,
Travis Wright: online website apps that I've used and I've actually worked
Travis Wright: with them in the past as Cloud America. And what
Travis Wright: I like about cloud in there is like, if I'm
Travis Wright: on my mobile device, I don't need a high res
Travis Wright: image to download, right? I don't need a huge video
Travis Wright: to download. A lot of times these websites are so
Travis Wright: filled with just it's an app or something that's 4k.
Travis Wright: And here I am looking at it on something, you know,
Travis Wright: that's super small. And so is that something you guys
Travis Wright: are going to be integrating or something similar to that?
Travis Wright: Because it's almost like the automatic resizing of things saves
Travis Wright: so much space.
Brendan Eich: We've looked at it. Google used to have something like this, too.
Brendan Eich: The problem is it's a huge privacy problem. If you
Brendan Eich: don't do it right and you end up tracking what
Brendan Eich: users are viewing by looking at how you have to
Brendan Eich: transcode their images. You want to do it in a
Brendan Eich: in a way that's scalable across the world and efficient.
Brendan Eich: So we keep looking at and looking at partners like
Brendan Eich: Cloudflare and trying to get the privacy right. But what
Brendan Eich: we mainly benefit from is just blocking so much stuff.
Brendan Eich: So we've found, by the way, in doing something called
Brendan Eich: Brave News, which is another one of those batteries included
Brendan Eich: features and brave. If you scroll up the bottom of
Brendan Eich: a new tab page, you'll see a newsfeed and it's
Brendan Eich: matched on your device, just like the private ads and
Brendan Eich: rewards that you can opt into. And that private newsfeed
Brendan Eich: is based on RSS feeds from around the web. Remember
Brendan Eich: RSS and it has privacy preserving properties. It doesn't just
Brendan Eich: build up a dossier or a profile of you on
Brendan Eich: the server side, and you can customize that. You can
Brendan Eich: add your own feeds, you can take out some of
Brendan Eich: the feeds that we think might be good for you.
Brendan Eich: But the way we curate those is not by profiling you,
Brendan Eich: it's just by sending catalogs down to you. Same with
Brendan Eich: the private ads and then letting local machine learning match
Brendan Eich: or in this case, very simple logic, just match what
Brendan Eich: your history seems to be against what you get in
Brendan Eich: the news feed that includes all the news sources and
Brendan Eich: just picks the ones that match your history. And that
Brendan Eich: that's part of our toolkit here is to block things
Brendan Eich: and to use a smarter way of getting content to you.
Brendan Eich: And one of the things that I wanted to mention
Brendan Eich: about news that you you inspired there is we do
Brendan Eich: try to keep the images from being too oversized. And
Brendan Eich: sometimes we find news sites like you said, are shipping
Brendan Eich: the 4K down to the phone for no good reason.
Brendan Eich: So we actually have around that. So part of our
Brendan Eich: greatest toolkit is to be a muscular client that has
Brendan Eich: a lot of sort of smart filter rules that we
Brendan Eich: can update quickly in a day or two to shield
Brendan Eich: your privacy to get the right image sizes to you
Brendan Eich: to block things and save your battery.
Joel Comm: So if I'm showing my screen here right now and
Joel Comm: you can see on this browser, I've I've had 8061
Joel Comm: trackers in ads blocked saved 283.2 meg of bandwidth and
Joel Comm: 7 minutes of time. This is a computer I've had
Joel Comm: for just a few weeks. So this is a new install,
Joel Comm: which is why my brave rewards are new. I just
Joel Comm: looked at my my iPhone and on here my brave
Joel Comm: browser says 96,000 trackers in ads blocked almost three gig
Joel Comm: of estimated data saved an hour of time and and
Joel Comm: I've got rewards in my brave wallet as well so
Joel Comm: let's talk a little bit about that the the rewards
Joel Comm: the the attention token and how we do that and
Joel Comm: how it's used within the ecosystem.
Brendan Eich: So when I said it created a monster, I meant
Brendan Eich: the worst part about JavaScript. The role in ad tech
Brendan Eich: was that it was something where the browser was actually
Brendan Eich: in the middle of all these ads being placed and
Brendan Eich: all the tracking happening. The first ad targeted you, and
Brendan Eich: then depending on what ads you viewed or the cheating
Brendan Eich: that they do to try to say you to that
Brendan Eich: when you didn't, JavaScript was involved there too. So I
Brendan Eich: felt like Dr. Frankenstein a bit, right? They had their
Brendan Eich: kill on Monster because that was not only draining your
Brendan Eich: battery and exposing to all the threats we talked about.
Brendan Eich: You weren't a piece you weren't out in as a
Brendan Eich: real person who should be given part of the revenue.
Brendan Eich: So from the beginning with Brave, I wanted to deal
Brendan Eich: the user in to show, not just tell, that we
Brendan Eich: put the user first. A lot of upstart browsers and
Brendan Eich: privacy products will say, you know, our product is the
Brendan Eich: best and we put the user first, but talk is cheap.
Brendan Eich: If we actually pay you at least as much as
Brendan Eich: we get from the gross ad revenue, then that I
Brendan Eich: think aligns our interests and avoids these conflicts of interests
Brendan Eich: that the big tech companies have where they become adversarial
Brendan Eich: toward their users in order to serve their shareholders and
Brendan Eich: their bottom line. So we do that with brave rewards.
Brendan Eich: It's an optional system. We started out with Bitcoin and
Brendan Eich: this was in 2016. We built a system where you
Brendan Eich: could bring your own Bitcoin and you could send it
Brendan Eich: to creators, website owners really who'd signed up with us.
Brendan Eich: And it was pretty much direct. It was through Multisig
Brendan Eich: wallets that Bitgo helped us with. So there was good
Brendan Eich: security and no, no, no brave custody in the middle.
Brendan Eich: It was like a two or three month scheme. But
Brendan Eich: we found that between the Bitcoin block size issue and
Brendan Eich: the congestion in 2017 and the fact that people want
Brendan Eich: to hold Bitcoin because you had Bitcoin back then, if
Brendan Eich: you don't want to send it to some random publisher,
Brendan Eich: you want to keep it because it's worth a lot
Brendan Eich: more now even with current market. So we realized we
Brendan Eich: needed a new smart contract system in a new approach
Brendan Eich: that included the browser as an element in the system.
Brendan Eich: Because you cannot do ads and attention and privacy on
Brendan Eich: the blockchain public blockchains, unlike zcash with pseudo transactions, but
Brendan Eich: in general, distributed public ledgers or decentralized public ledgers are public.
Brendan Eich: And that means that you can fingerprint the user by
Brendan Eich: looking at transactions over time. Chainalysis Does this people discover
Brendan Eich: who was behind the Mt. Gox hack or where the
Brendan Eich: funds went? Things like that. People are looking at where
Brendan Eich: FDX got its funds and where they might have gone.
Brendan Eich: So there's a sort of problem for privacy if you
Brendan Eich: try to do everything on chain. Also, like I said,
Brendan Eich: it got expensive on bitcoin in 2017, got expensive on
Brendan Eich: Ethereum after that. So we always included the browser as
Brendan Eich: sort of a ultimate edge in our decentralized system, where
Brendan Eich: each browser, each supercomputer in your pocket or your laptop
Brendan Eich: can do a lot of local processing to match ads
Brendan Eich: against the catalog and to mint zero knowledge proofs or
Brendan Eich: sign your blind signature certificates. And this is at low cost,
Brendan Eich: but it can preserve your anonymity, it can keep you shielded,
Brendan Eich: and yet your you into the revenue flow. And that's
Brendan Eich: what we built with great rewards as an opt in
Brendan Eich: private ad system. You can also add your own funds.
Brendan Eich: You can tip or give a recurring monthly contribution to creators.
Brendan Eich: We've got, I think, 1.3 million creators signed up. A
Brendan Eich: lot of them are YouTubers because they either never got
Brendan Eich: monetized or they got demonetized without being kicked off the platform.
Brendan Eich: But YouTube is still where the videos are hosted. Well,
Brendan Eich: in the comments or so, we provide those creators an
Brendan Eich: alternative means for their fans to support them. And that
Brendan Eich: is the fan, the creator, Direct flow I mentioned. And
Brendan Eich: once you form a relationship with that creator, you can
Brendan Eich: even go direct through your self-custody wallet to their creators,
Brendan Eich: wallet on chain, on a fast chain with low fees
Brendan Eich: if you want to do so, we're paving the way
Brendan Eich: toward usable self-custody and direct peer to peer crypto through
Brendan Eich: great rewards. We're getting users from a very large funnel
Brendan Eich: up to 60 million. It's been fluctuating on the monthly active,
Brendan Eich: so that's kind of a difficult number. I can explain
Brendan Eich: more and we're getting those users. Funneled into crypto and
Brendan Eich: in winter or summer or nuclear winter, whatever happened to FCX?
Brendan Eich: Whatever happened there is causing a real chill right now.
Brendan Eich: We're bullish on crypto. We think in the long run
Brendan Eich: this is the right way to advance the users interests
Brendan Eich: above all the central powers.
Travis Wright: Yeah, just scroll down on your website. Basic attention token.
Travis Wright: You can see you still have FCX there, so you
Travis Wright: need to change that to WTI. Yes, probably.
Brendan Eich: Yeah. It's a self-serve system. We're going to try to
Brendan Eich: decentralize it through in a TS, but they did verify.
Brendan Eich: I think we have no other relationship with them on,
Brendan Eich: on having an account with them or any assets with them.
Brendan Eich: And I'm glad to say that because a lot of
Brendan Eich: people are in big trouble now, unfortunately. And it's a
Brendan Eich: real hit to crypto.
Travis Wright: Yeah. So there's no solutions for you. Okay.
Brendan Eich: Right.
Travis Wright: I want to ask about advertising, cause I know some
Travis Wright: people say, well, wait a second, so Brave doesn't know
Travis Wright: anything really about me. How can they, you know, show
Travis Wright: me ads that are relevant to me? Because here I
Travis Wright: am when I'm on Instagram, I for one minute I
Travis Wright: buy way too much shit on Instagram ads because it's
Travis Wright: like it knows me, right? And I'm like, Oh, hell yeah.
Travis Wright: I need this freaking whistle thing. There's it helps relieve
Travis Wright: the stress about this. I appreciate Instagram. Right? So how
Travis Wright: does Brave give people relevant ads to products or services
Travis Wright: that they need when you don't know anything about it?
Brendan Eich: Good question. So when you think about the way ad
Brendan Eich: Tech works on Instagram or Facebook or Google, they're collecting
Brendan Eich: all this data about everybody and they can put it
Brendan Eich: in a big database and they can do studies and
Brendan Eich: regressions and say, Hey, this person looks like that person.
Brendan Eich: That person bought a car, This person might buy a car.
Brendan Eich: Let's show them a car. That's powerful, but a lot
Brendan Eich: of it is spammy. They guess wrong about you. They
Brendan Eich: show you ads that you don't like or they hammer
Brendan Eich: you with the same ad over and over. That's called retargeting.
Brendan Eich: What we do doesn't collect any data. We don't want
Brendan Eich: to be a mini Google. Then we'd have a hard
Brendan Eich: time convincing anybody to trust us, even if we did
Brendan Eich: share revenue. So we make the matching happen not in
Brendan Eich: the cloud but on your device. And the way to
Brendan Eich: do that is not to have all the ads on
Brendan Eich: your device because they're big and they're video or web pages.
Brendan Eich: We send links to those ads with keywords next to them.
Brendan Eich: One Perot in a catalog, and this catalog updates a
Brendan Eich: couple of times a day. And it's not that big.
Brendan Eich: This doesn't use up your data plan. This is kind
Brendan Eich: of like what browsers do to keep track of malware
Brendan Eich: and phishing threats with, say, browsing lists or our own
Brendan Eich: filter rule lists for the rape shield. We update these
Brendan Eich: these data files. And in the case of rewards, there's
Brendan Eich: a catalog of ads you can get identified by their location,
Brendan Eich: their web address and some keywords. So then the challenges
Brendan Eich: do the matching with local machine learning. Only when you
Brendan Eich: turn on rewards does happen. It's like keeping a separate
Brendan Eich: history and all browsers keep history usually for two weeks
Brendan Eich: with great rewards so longer because your value may extend
Brendan Eich: back 30 days to come and look that period in attack.
Brendan Eich: But the separate history can be cleared by you. It
Brendan Eich: doesn't leak out to us. We don't follow that history.
Brendan Eich: But the local machine learning and the ad agent can
Brendan Eich: then say, Hey, you can look in your car sites.
Brendan Eich: I'm going to pick the row in the catalog that
Brendan Eich: has the car or the making model for that matter
Brendan Eich: keyword that our direct sales team already did a deal for.
Brendan Eich: So we're we're out there doing direct sales and we're
Brendan Eich: working on scaling this up to get more demand partners in,
Brendan Eich: but always with privacy. Instead of surveilling you and pulling
Brendan Eich: your data into our cloud, we push out the offers
Brendan Eich: to the ultimate edge, the browser in your pocket, and
Brendan Eich: that's where the matching happens. And then if you do
Brendan Eich: see the ad, we have to confirm that. But that's
Brendan Eich: where that blind signature cryptography I mentioned comes in in
Brendan Eich: the future. Zero knowledge proof. So there are great tools
Brendan Eich: in the cryptographic tool kit. They've been developed since the
Brendan Eich: nineties and they're especially being used in blockchain projects for
Brendan Eich: keeping you anonymous, keeping your identity unbreakable from the particular
Brendan Eich: things you viewed. So all we have to do is
Brendan Eich: get honest counting of the views for an ad to
Brendan Eich: show the ad buyer that the ad performed. They don't
Brendan Eich: need to know about you. They might like to because
Brendan Eich: a lot of little nosy that way. We don't have
Brendan Eich: that information in our servers. We don't want them to
Brendan Eich: have it. We don't need them to have it. And
Brendan Eich: if the outperforms, then they should be happy with what
Brendan Eich: they bought and that's where we share the revenue with you.
Joel Comm: Brendan What do you think the number is of active
Joel Comm: users that would put you on Google's radar and go, Oh,
Joel Comm: this is a threat?
Brendan Eich: Yeah, Google knows about us. But I think when Firefox
Brendan Eich: was still, you know, plausibly saying they have like 450
Brendan Eich: million monthly active users when it was kind of a
Brendan Eich: fragile number. Same reason ours is it was falling and
Brendan Eich: the monthly active user is somebody who use you once
Brendan Eich: a month or more. Well, some users will use you
Brendan Eich: every day but Sunday. And that's a really valuable use
Brendan Eich: that's almost daily at. Whereas other monthly active users just
Brendan Eich: start their Windows PC at home and it fires up.
Brendan Eich: Popups are brave from the system tray, but they hardly
Brendan Eich: touch it. That's not a valuable user. So monthly active
Brendan Eich: users is a tricky number and it's not really well defined.
Brendan Eich: But if you get into the hundreds of millions, you're
Brendan Eich: on Google's radar. You get 60 million around there like
Brendan Eich: we have. You're on Google's radar.
Joel Comm: So how do we you know, this next step is
Joel Comm: just going to be the question that, you know, is
Joel Comm: in your on your mind is you're going to sleep
Joel Comm: every night is how do we get to, you know,
Joel Comm: 100 million, 250 million, you know, a billion? How do
Joel Comm: you attain that?
Brendan Eich: Yeah, I do. I do think about the slot because
Brendan Eich: at some point you're up against the device makers and
Brendan Eich: they tend to put Chrome in there on the Android
Brendan Eich: OS as the default. Even though they've been spanked by
Brendan Eich: the European Competitive Practices Regulator for doing that, that they're
Brendan Eich: not supposed to force Chrome is the default. And in
Brendan Eich: the US there's been similar concern on iOS. On the
Brendan Eich: iPhone iPad it used to be only Safari could be
Brendan Eich: the default browser iOS 14 a couple of summers ago. Change.
Brendan Eich: This was good because a lot of users want readability
Brendan Eich: and finally we could do it. I think it happened
Brendan Eich: in part because of competition. I think it happened also
Brendan Eich: due to some, let's say, moral pressure, not the politicians
Brendan Eich: or all that moral, but much of Congress people on
Brendan Eich: antitrust Committee sent a letter to Tim Cook, and in
Brendan Eich: that letter they said you should allow users to make
Brendan Eich: a different browser or mail app be the default. And
Brendan Eich: by the way, Brave's policy guy helped draft that letter.
Brendan Eich: So there's a mix of policy and competition and finding
Brendan Eich: the right partners that we can use to grow and
Brendan Eich: to get a bit more fair play playing field. And
Brendan Eich: that's on my mind as we get bigger, because the
Brendan Eich: bigger you get, the harder it is to get on
Brendan Eich: to the phones. To replace Chrome, you have to find
Brendan Eich: partners who will help distribute you or offset the distribution cost.
Brendan Eich: This is this is true, especially now. It was even
Brendan Eich: true back in the Firefox days. The hooks grew organically
Brendan Eich: very big before Chrome finally, I think in 2011 started
Brendan Eich: to pick. And by the way, Google has to pay
Brendan Eich: for distribution, too, because on Windows, as you know, edges
Brendan Eich: is equal to Microsoft. Mm hmm. So Google's in there
Brendan Eich: distributing Chrome, somehow advertising, doing some sketchy deals to push
Brendan Eich: it onto your hard disk.
Travis Wright: Hmm. So let me ask you this then. So. So
Travis Wright: what do you think is is next? What's what excites
Travis Wright: you the most kind of moving forward with Bray? Because,
Travis Wright: you know, you've been here since the very beginning. We're
Travis Wright: moving into Web three, and you're the one that's helping,
Travis Wright: you know, in a lot of ways, help content creators,
Travis Wright: own their own content. So you're kind of the Web
Travis Wright: three browser in my mind, right? Joel's my Angel. Joe's
Travis Wright: a big fan of Brave. He uses it everywhere and
Travis Wright: yells at me when I'm not using it. And I'm like,
Travis Wright: Oh yeah, I need to get back on that. What
Travis Wright: am I doing? And so it's like, what? What are
Travis Wright: some of those things that excites you the most about
Travis Wright: where you're going?
Brendan Eich: Yeah, I think we are aspiring to be the web browser.
Brendan Eich: Nobody knows what free means exactly, but the best way
Brendan Eich: to predict the future is to invent it, like Alan
Brendan Eich: Xerox Park fame said. And the general notions around it
Brendan Eich: are solid. They're self-custody. Self-sovereign identity, user sovereignty. Being able
Brendan Eich: to go direct on a blockchain, be able to use Ipfs,
Brendan Eich: for instance, for data storage without any concern that someone
Brendan Eich: out there is going to censor you or some nation
Brendan Eich: state is going to do something dear to you. We
Brendan Eich: also have Tor built in the desktop frame that I
Brendan Eich: mentioned that Tor private Windows for network privacy. What excites
Brendan Eich: me about Web3 is that I think crypto gets to
Brendan Eich: go social and it needs to, right? If crypto is
Brendan Eich: just a bunch of hex addresses and signing transactions and
Brendan Eich: it's kind of low level and sort of complex. It's
Brendan Eich: like the internet before the web browser, before Mosaic, let's say.
Brendan Eich: It's like the old command line I used in the
Brendan Eich: eighties and, you know, email was around then, so it's
Brendan Eich: kind of familiar, but using it, we kind of miss
Brendan Eich: the quality of that. But a lot of that stuff
Brendan Eich: like Telnet and FTP kind of died for most people.
Brendan Eich: And that's, I think what needs to happen with crypto.
Brendan Eich: And it's not to die, but to be abstract and
Brendan Eich: simplify it so you can do what looks more like
Brendan Eich: an app interaction or compound transaction or meta transaction instead
Brendan Eich: of doing these little detailed signing and confirming transactions with
Brendan Eich: hex addresses and using people and trusted identities, pseudonyms as
Brendan Eich: well as real names to interact with people and build
Brendan Eich: up reputation is going to be super important, I think.
Brendan Eich: It shouldn't belong only to Twitter. Sorry, it shouldn't belong
Brendan Eich: only to Facebook. This has to be something that's decentralized
Brendan Eich: and it's it's hard to decentralize, right? My my best
Brendan Eich: idea right now is that you actually don't want to
Brendan Eich: try to compete with Twitter. I don't want to do
Brendan Eich: a brave Twitter. I want to do a front end
Brendan Eich: in brave. This aggregates social and then lets you re
Brendan Eich: aggregate it sort of like that news, brave news I
Brendan Eich: mentioned where the RSS feeds can be matched against your
Brendan Eich: interests locally. So I want my Twitter friends. If they
Brendan Eich: moved to Mastodon, I want to keep track them through
Brendan Eich: my private address book, which I have for my Mac
Brendan Eich: OS and iOS. I want to even resurrect them on
Brendan Eich: a thread where they seem to have disappeared because they
Brendan Eich: left Twitter. I got kicked off Twitter. I can find them.
Brendan Eich: I can superimpose comments from different sources. In some ways
Brendan Eich: you can imagine YouTube becomes just as video hosting. If
Brendan Eich: it weren't for this social aspect where people comment and
Brendan Eich: that could be lifted out of YouTube and into the
Brendan Eich: browser and the comments can be stored in IP address
Brendan Eich: or even on your Dropbox or iCloud because they aren't
Brendan Eich: that big. The personal Twitter Twitter posts they do even
Brendan Eich: with images, is less space than my home pictures, videos
Brendan Eich: of my kids. So there's something to be said for
Brendan Eich: user first that uses all the tools. It uses your
Brendan Eich: private cloud, it uses gifs, which is not a blockchain,
Brendan Eich: but it is a peer to peer network. It uses blockchains,
Brendan Eich: it uses the browser storage, it uses the browser's ability
Brendan Eich: to compose and decompose or aggregates content.
Joel Comm: Well. Well, I'm I'm going to preach at everybody and say,
Joel Comm: if you're still using Chrome, you don't need to. It's
Joel Comm: a it's a real easy switch gang to export your
Joel Comm: bookmarks and then bring them into brave. Go to brave
Joel Comm: dot com. You can download it right here and you're
Joel Comm: you're a hero Brandon so much so that when we
Joel Comm: did blockchain heroes all those many years ago. I've got
Joel Comm: to show you this one of the heroes was inspired
Joel Comm: by you. His name was Courage. And he's he's got
Joel Comm: some good eyes on this guy here. I mean, he's
Joel Comm: like all muscle.
Brendan Eich: He didn't skip leg day?
Joel Comm: No. Ha ha ha ha ha. Not at all. Well,
Joel Comm: did we?
Travis Wright: We appreciate you colors a serious packs here, by the way.
Travis Wright: I want to say I admire that. How swole you
Travis Wright: are over there. Courage.
Brendan Eich: I used to whip, though I wasn't eating as right
Brendan Eich: as I came to be later in life. Now I
Brendan Eich: eat too old for.
Travis Wright: It's good for you. It's easy to do. We really
Travis Wright: appreciate it, brother. Thank you so much.
Brendan Eich: Thank you for having me. A lot of fun.
Joel Comm: Always great to talk to you. The movers and shakers
Joel Comm: of the technology space want one another to speak to Brendan.
Joel Comm: He's also a real down to earth, humble dude, in
Joel Comm: spite of all of his massive accomplishments.
Travis Wright: I loved it. I like to have him on again.
Travis Wright: This dude's killing it. And I love how you mentioned him.
Travis Wright: I love how he's like, Oh, my God. People are
Travis Wright: using the image and they're using JavaScript to track people.
Travis Wright: I've got to unravel this. Sounds like he literally stopped
Travis Wright: in in and said, I got to make this right.
Travis Wright: And then he worked on a solution. A lot of
Travis Wright: times people what they would do is, Oh, look at
Travis Wright: how much money we can make. Now with online advertising.
Travis Wright: I want to become a big trillionaire. And but instead
Travis Wright: he said, No, let's give this money back to the people.
Travis Wright: Let's build a better solution, and we're going to do
Travis Wright: it together. And to me, like this, dude, this is
Travis Wright: what I have here in my book. Yup. I can't see.
Travis Wright: That's like I just raised my heart.
Joel Comm: It's like it's way up there is erases the video screen.
Travis Wright: It's off. You know.
Joel Comm: I can smell what's coming out from under your ear. No, no, no.
Travis Wright: I took a shower today.
Joel Comm: We don't. Proof of that.
Travis Wright: I put off a shower post.
Joel Comm: Sherpa dirt.
Brendan Eich: Bus back to.
Travis Wright: Turkey.
Joel Comm: So time is running out to get your bad crypto
Joel Comm: nifty club membership if you want the Brad Mill's NFT.
Joel Comm: Hopefully you heard that Episode number 651 that was released
Joel Comm: here just a few days ago and and got your
Joel Comm: big crypto NFT membership card. This is the NFT that
Joel Comm: we're getting ready to release. Of course, you can't hear
Joel Comm: it right now, but it is a two minute video NFT.
Joel Comm: It is a bonus. Add on to the episode exclusively
Joel Comm: for those of you in the Bad Crypto Nifty Club,
Joel Comm: you're going to get this airdropped to you for free.
Joel Comm: How do you get it? Well, real easy. You need
Joel Comm: to go to the bad crypto podcast site on Uncut
Joel Comm: Dot FM. It's bad crypto dot, Uncut dot FM and
Joel Comm: then you're going to go into the the NFTS. And
Joel Comm: I believe right down here at the bottom, that's the
Joel Comm: one you want. You want the bad crypto nifty club
Joel Comm: .002 wrapped. That's all it is. You could pay with ether.
Joel Comm: You can even pay with a credit card if you want.
Joel Comm: Once you've got this, you're in the club and the
Joel Comm: free airdrops that we send go to people who are
Joel Comm: holding these. So what's your excuse? Go get it there. Rare.
Joel Comm: It says so right here on the screen. I love.
Travis Wright: It. So you can check it out. Hey, what about this?
Travis Wright: We haven't talked about doing an NFT for. For Brendan Eich.
Travis Wright: What if we take the blockchain heroes and make a
Travis Wright: brand new version of it and create a new courage
Travis Wright: only for the uncut folks?
Joel Comm: Just just on Polygon? I like that. I like that. Now,
Joel Comm: you got two reasons to get your bad crypto nifty
Joel Comm: club membership. We're going to create another variation of courage
Joel Comm: Blockchain hero and it will be airdrop. This will be
Joel Comm: our first. Will this be the first polygon? No. We
Joel Comm: worked with Limp and did a few exclusive variations on
Joel Comm: their platform, but this will be the first one for
Joel Comm: the bank. Crypto nifty one.
Travis Wright: Yeah. And then all those 60 million people over on
Travis Wright: Braid better get one because, well, all 60 million couldn't
Travis Wright: because there's not that many of those bad crypto clubs available.
Travis Wright: But thanks for tuning in. I'm really glad you tuned in.
Travis Wright: And you know, Brendan is amazing. I'm really pleased that
Travis Wright: we had to have something hacked.
Joel Comm: Absolutely. And we appreciate you guys. Thanks for bearing with us.
Joel Comm: Your favorite defi defi, your sherpa in Dafa. I like that.
Joel Comm: I like those names. Make sure you go review five
Joel Comm: stars is preferred. And we also we have a bunch
Joel Comm: of voicemails that we're going to be playing for you
Joel Comm: or maybe we played on the last episode of Remember
Joel Comm: When We Use Them because we recorded this interview before
Joel Comm: Monday's news shows. We want the news to be current
Joel Comm: in a we're out of order so that we can
Joel Comm: be in order. And if that makes any sense to
Joel Comm: you that you are already following our instructions.
Travis Wright: Who's bad?
Joel Comm: The Bad Crypto podcast is a production of Bad Crypto LLC.
Joel Comm: The content of the show, the videos and the website
Joel Comm: is provided for educational, informational and entertainment purposes only. It's
Joel Comm: not intended to be and does not constitute financial investment
Joel Comm: or trading advice of any kind. You shouldn't make any
Joel Comm: decisions as to finances, investing, trading or anything else based
Joel Comm: on this information without undertaking independent due diligence in consultation
Joel Comm: with a professional financial advisor. Please understand that the trading
Joel Comm: of Bitcoins and alternative cryptocurrencies have potential risks involved. Anyone
Joel Comm: wishing to invest in any of the currencies or tokens
Joel Comm: mentioned on this podcast should first seek their own independent
Joel Comm: professional financial advisor.