WEBVTT - Web Pioneer Legend Brendan Eich 0:00:00.420 --> 0:00:03.239 A long time ago in a galaxy pretty much identical 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.750 to this one. Some pointy headed nerds built the foundation 0:00:06.750 --> 0:00:09.750 of the Internet. One of those pointy headed nerds was 0:00:09.750 --> 0:00:13.829 the CEO of Mozilla, a co-founder of the Firefox browser 0:00:13.830 --> 0:00:17.700 and the creator of JavaScript. Today, he is the creator 0:00:17.700 --> 0:00:21.599 of the Brave Browser, a wonderful privacy based alternative to 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.570 Chrome and the rest of the corporate browsers. His name 0:00:24.570 --> 0:00:27.330 is Brendan Eich and he joins us to discuss the 0:00:27.330 --> 0:00:30.570 early days of the web, the mess that he helped 0:00:30.570 --> 0:00:33.390 create and how he is helping to clean it up 0:00:33.390 --> 0:00:37.320 and lead us into a decentralized web3 world. Join us 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:40.860 for a discussion with this brave legend on our Pioneers. 0:00:40.890 --> 0:00:47.220 Get all the heroes. Episode number 653. Of the Bad 0:00:47.220 --> 0:00:48.300 Crypto podcast. 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:57.870 503000 What do I do? Who's Bad? 0:01:17.310 --> 0:01:18.929 Greetings, Brave. 0:01:19.140 --> 0:01:23.280 Journey Men and Journey Women and Journey Persons And Journey 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.210 is a really good band. Even like after Steve Perry, 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.190 it's a bad crypto podcast show for the crypto curious 0:01:29.190 --> 0:01:33.030 and the crypto serious that is brave the Lord. Travis Right. 0:01:33.030 --> 0:01:36.630 And I am also brave. So Lord Joel, calm and 0:01:36.630 --> 0:01:38.880 you are brave. Fill in the blank. 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.450 Mm hmm. And Joel's just a city boy born and 0:01:42.450 --> 0:01:47.880 raised in New Chicago. Very nice. This. This is a 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.330 fun episode, guys. I mean, long time coming on this one. 0:01:51.750 --> 0:01:55.290 I don't know which all. I have a conversation after 0:01:55.290 --> 0:02:00.150 we interviewed Brendon, and we were like, Hmm, who is 0:02:00.150 --> 0:02:05.040 comparable to this guy? Right? This guy essentially was one 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.290 of the guys who helped build the browser the way 0:02:07.290 --> 0:02:11.070 we know it, right? I mean, he invented JavaScript. He 0:02:11.340 --> 0:02:15.030 he was really early in Netscape, which Netscape was an 0:02:15.030 --> 0:02:18.390 evolution of Mosaic, which was the very first that I 0:02:18.389 --> 0:02:22.680 know of. Right. And then went on to create Mozilla Firefox. 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:27.600 And then, I mean, embrace this. This is an Internet legend. 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.890 He's a pioneer of Web one, Web two and now 0:02:31.889 --> 0:02:33.900 Web three. And we got him all that crypto and 0:02:33.900 --> 0:02:35.070 we're bringing him to you. 0:02:36.020 --> 0:02:38.640 And what's really interesting about it is you discover some 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:40.500 of the mistakes he made along the way that was 0:02:40.500 --> 0:02:45.119 kind of oops, especially as it came to tracking people's 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:49.019 behavior and how that turned into a really bad thing. 0:02:49.020 --> 0:02:51.660 But then he talks about what he's doing to fix it. 0:02:51.810 --> 0:02:54.030 I think you guys are really going to enjoy this 0:02:54.030 --> 0:03:01.620 here discussion with the one and only. Brendan, I. It's 0:03:01.620 --> 0:03:05.609 been more than a hot minute since we have talked 0:03:05.610 --> 0:03:08.670 about the brave browser. And in fact, we've been talking 0:03:08.669 --> 0:03:11.550 about the brave browser for five and five years, I 0:03:11.550 --> 0:03:15.720 would say, of hot minutes as a alternative to using 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:20.640 evil Google Chrome on your your computer. If you want 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.400 to keep your data in your privacy is the way 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.310 to go. This is not a paid advertisement. This is 0:03:26.310 --> 0:03:32.489 not a commercial. This is actual recommendations because we use brave, 0:03:32.490 --> 0:03:35.190 we like it. And what really excites us is today 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:40.140 we have the CEO and co-founder of Brave, Brendan Eich 0:03:40.140 --> 0:03:42.150 is joining us right now. And we're going to talk 0:03:42.150 --> 0:03:45.270 about all kinds of things. Brendan, welcome to the Bad 0:03:45.270 --> 0:03:46.350 Crypto podcast. 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:46.950 Don't forget that. 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.610 Yes, the Netscape thing, that Mozilla thing, but most important, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:51.930 micro unity. 0:03:52.230 --> 0:03:56.940 Yeah, he's he's got quite a background. You were the CTO, 0:03:56.940 --> 0:04:01.350 then CEO of Mozilla and you helped launch the Firefox 0:04:01.350 --> 0:04:05.370 browser and you're also the inventor of JavaScript, which is 0:04:05.370 --> 0:04:09.060 the world's most popular programming language. So you know, that 0:04:09.060 --> 0:04:12.180 little thing happened. And then of course you founded the 0:04:12.180 --> 0:04:16.529 brave browser. So why, why found brave? Go ahead and 0:04:16.529 --> 0:04:20.490 tell us your reasons, especially after having launched a successful 0:04:20.490 --> 0:04:23.370 browser and Firefox that you thought we need brave. 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:28.880 Right. So when we did Firefox, we were not as 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.600 conscious about privacy as we are now. And we did 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.210 this search deal with Google, which at the time was 0:04:35.210 --> 0:04:39.200 a great search engine. It hadn't become a big alphabet 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:43.490 company full of all sorts of different businesses. That all 0:04:43.490 --> 0:04:46.610 seemed to be lost. Leaders for the ad exchange business, 0:04:46.610 --> 0:04:49.850 which is the main revenue leg of Google. We also 0:04:50.180 --> 0:04:55.549 and in Firefox, we let the privacy conscious users do 0:04:55.550 --> 0:04:58.970 all extensions for themselves and then grow those extensions. We 0:04:58.970 --> 0:05:01.789 called them add ons back in the day. So when 0:05:01.790 --> 0:05:04.700 I left was I sat for a long time thinking 0:05:04.700 --> 0:05:08.210 about two big problems. One is that browsers, if it 0:05:08.210 --> 0:05:10.730 gets access successful, tend to be captured by a big 0:05:10.730 --> 0:05:13.370 tech company, like a search company, which is really an 0:05:13.370 --> 0:05:17.599 ad exchange like Google or in the nineties by an 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.690 operating system company, which is really a word in Excel. 0:05:20.900 --> 0:05:25.370 The Sweet Company that was Microsoft. And I also wanted 0:05:25.370 --> 0:05:30.049 to help users have a direct say in not only 0:05:30.050 --> 0:05:34.460 their privacy but sort of economics on the Web and users, 0:05:34.460 --> 0:05:39.260 if they're just eyeballs to be counted in favor of, 0:05:39.260 --> 0:05:43.760 you know, ad traffic or ad revenue, they're not treated 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:47.210 as as first parties or principals in the economics. They're 0:05:47.210 --> 0:05:51.520 just kind of. Farm animals that get sheared of wool 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.360 every spring and shiver. And that's how people in the 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:59.020 nineties talked about our users. They were eyeballs. You are 0:05:59.020 --> 0:06:03.850 monetizing eyeballs. User attention was creating a new data economy. 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.490 Data was the new oil, which is a nonsense statement 0:06:06.490 --> 0:06:09.580 of our third one. And with Brave, I wanted to 0:06:09.580 --> 0:06:11.979 do something that was much more direct. It put users 0:06:11.980 --> 0:06:17.080 directly in the revenue share for private ads if they wanted. 0:06:17.290 --> 0:06:20.890 It allowed them to directly transact on blockchains with other 0:06:20.890 --> 0:06:24.940 parties to send money to. You all support your favorite YouTuber. So, 0:06:24.940 --> 0:06:29.740 you know, being disintermediated, being creator, economy, that's what was 0:06:29.740 --> 0:06:32.710 on my mind. And to do both of those things, 0:06:32.710 --> 0:06:38.560 privacy and I would say direct economic user first participation 0:06:38.890 --> 0:06:45.100 required thinking about how to marry cryptocurrencies and security including privacy. 0:06:46.089 --> 0:06:48.370 Right. So, you know, it's always been fascinating. You know, 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:50.770 being in Joe and I have both been in the 0:06:50.770 --> 0:06:53.710 Internet since the beginning, really. I mean, Joel was one 0:06:53.710 --> 0:06:56.320 of the first, what, 10,000 websites that was created or 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.620 something like that with with World Village. I got online 0:06:59.620 --> 0:07:03.250 in 96 and I've been paying attention to things. And so, 0:07:03.250 --> 0:07:06.520 you know, I remember AOL buying Netscape. I remember when 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.810 when when Bill Gates didn't even think that Netflix and 0:07:09.910 --> 0:07:13.480 Netscape was even something to be concerned about, and they 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.300 didn't even have a browser yet. So these are these 0:07:16.300 --> 0:07:20.080 are yeah, this is really early on. So you're you're 0:07:20.470 --> 0:07:23.380 you're really early on in Web one. I would almost 0:07:23.380 --> 0:07:26.980 say you were in Web point five right through Mosaic 0:07:27.220 --> 0:07:30.820 became net Netscape. I keep want to say Netflix. If 0:07:30.820 --> 0:07:33.850 I say Netflix just mad me, it's not intentional. So 0:07:33.850 --> 0:07:37.540 it's like, what? What did that really early internet sorta 0:07:37.540 --> 0:07:39.850 teach you? Because you were like the chief architect. You 0:07:39.850 --> 0:07:43.630 were building stuff really early with, with with Netscape. So 0:07:43.630 --> 0:07:47.080 how did that sort of forming and, and, and maybe 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.930 how did that get in the JavaScript? Because you create, 0:07:50.140 --> 0:07:53.860 you build some really kickass foundational things for the Internet 0:07:53.860 --> 0:07:57.040 that we all use today. Many of us probably take 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:57.760 that for granted. 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.030 Well, thank you. As you mentioned, I was at my 0:08:01.030 --> 0:08:02.950 community one more year than I should have been, so 0:08:02.950 --> 0:08:04.960 I missed the founding of Netscape. I came in the 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:09.760 second year pretty much second chronological year of age, and 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.570 I did JavaScript in a big hurry because it wasn't 0:08:13.570 --> 0:08:18.160 clear with Java, the Big Brother language from Sun to 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.250 people at Netscape and to most people at Sun that 0:08:21.250 --> 0:08:25.960 we needed JavaScript. But Marc Andreessen of Netscape and Bill 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.750 Joy of Sun and I argued that we did for 0:08:28.750 --> 0:08:32.290 the same reason that Microsoft had Visual Basic as well 0:08:32.290 --> 0:08:34.930 as Visual C++ and its stack. So you had one 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.680 scripting language that was dynamic and easier to use for 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.829 a great number of people to use to glue things together, 0:08:41.830 --> 0:08:45.370 build apps, patch things. And you had a more expert 0:08:45.370 --> 0:08:49.000 language for the component builders. So that was the idea 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.900 behind JavaScript. But to just recapture the feeling of the 0:08:52.900 --> 0:08:56.620 early web web one days, the PC was dominant. We 0:08:56.620 --> 0:08:59.079 all sat in front of big bottle monitors. We played 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:04.310 Quake right after Doom. We were on Lands. We we 0:09:04.330 --> 0:09:08.890 didn't necessarily have great home Internet connectivity. AOL had City 0:09:09.309 --> 0:09:12.280 bombed the country to get people online through dial up 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.100 and people were starting to get faster, you know, the 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.010 street multi-tool and whatever it's called. 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.290 I found one of those recently, by the way. I 0:09:20.290 --> 0:09:22.900 found an old floppy disk where I was like, Oh 0:09:22.900 --> 0:09:25.120 my God, this one is super early. 0:09:25.990 --> 0:09:27.819 But one of the things this meant was you had 0:09:27.820 --> 0:09:30.730 to be your own system administrator of your home PC, 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.100 and that was hard for people. But it was good 0:09:33.100 --> 0:09:36.640 in the sense that you didn't just rent the device 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:40.510 from an Apple or Google and they treated it like theirs. 0:09:40.510 --> 0:09:42.790 And you were just the sheep to share of a wall. 0:09:42.790 --> 0:09:45.670 Like I said earlier, you really were a participant. You 0:09:45.670 --> 0:09:49.870 would buy games especially. But other apps, productivity apps, security apps, 0:09:50.290 --> 0:09:52.270 you would go down to Fry's and buy stuff, right? 0:09:52.270 --> 0:09:55.300 So this was more of a of a user sovereign world. 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.090 It was the world where you could do your own thing, 0:09:58.090 --> 0:10:01.449 you could upgrade your graphics card, you could try stuff, 0:10:01.450 --> 0:10:05.829 you know, you could participate in hacking on software for 0:10:05.830 --> 0:10:08.830 the PC. And when I did JavaScript, it became very 0:10:08.830 --> 0:10:11.230 easy for people to hack on websites in a way 0:10:11.230 --> 0:10:15.370 that was programmed. It was enlivened with dynamic responses, not 0:10:15.370 --> 0:10:17.230 just on the server side, but on the client side. 0:10:17.650 --> 0:10:20.110 And so what we were trying to do with Netscape 0:10:20.110 --> 0:10:22.870 was make the web lively and useful. We wanted to 0:10:22.870 --> 0:10:25.540 have images that was done at Mosaic and maybe we 0:10:25.630 --> 0:10:27.970 wanted to have cookies so you could log into your 0:10:27.970 --> 0:10:30.880 bank and then navigate around your different account views without 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:35.110 having to log in every time because the HTP protocol 0:10:35.110 --> 0:10:37.600 was stateless, so it would not remember who you were 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.290 and there was no way without cookies to keep track 0:10:41.290 --> 0:10:43.660 of you. So in some ways you could say tracking 0:10:43.660 --> 0:10:46.719 was invented through the cookie, but it was a good 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.140 kind of tracking. It was. First party, the site you 0:10:49.140 --> 0:10:51.930 go to intentionally, the site you need to know is 0:10:51.929 --> 0:10:55.170 really your bank and not an imposter phishing site. And 0:10:55.350 --> 0:10:57.090 that's still true to this day. So that was what 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.090 you to before we didn't think about and I'm going 0:11:00.090 --> 0:11:02.430 to set Netscape a year late and people wanted to 0:11:02.429 --> 0:11:04.950 fix it, but it was too late. Was that between 0:11:04.950 --> 0:11:08.069 images and cookies, there was an easy way to trap 0:11:08.070 --> 0:11:10.660 users across the web and build up a profile. 0:11:10.790 --> 0:11:14.760 And then that became something that was leveraged by, you know, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:18.120 big tech and say, okay, we can we can weaponize 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:23.280 this not just for ad dollars, but against our so-called enemies. 0:11:25.540 --> 0:11:27.790 It was leveraged in many ways and that term is 0:11:27.790 --> 0:11:29.590 used in finance. It was even used that way because 0:11:29.590 --> 0:11:31.900 a lot of the tricks that were used with ad 0:11:31.900 --> 0:11:35.540 tech were sort of like financial trickery or, you know, 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:42.040 promising something for nothing. And when advertising technology evolved and 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:43.540 Google was a big part of this, but there was 0:11:43.540 --> 0:11:46.330 always a big sea of vendors out there in the 0:11:46.330 --> 0:11:49.360 so-called Loomis scape. They all depended on these things from 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:56.400 the nineties, the image, the cookie and scripts, JavaScript. And 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:57.360 so I created a monster. 0:11:57.660 --> 0:12:01.140 So, yeah, as you see, you inadvertently created something and 0:12:01.140 --> 0:12:03.510 you were like, Well, so so is this a moment 0:12:03.510 --> 0:12:05.790 where you're like, Wow, there's some crime, not only linger 0:12:05.790 --> 0:12:07.530 lingering out there, I better do something to kind of 0:12:07.530 --> 0:12:10.560 unravel this. And is that what you thought when you 0:12:11.100 --> 0:12:12.270 then went over to Mozilla? 0:12:13.380 --> 0:12:16.500 I think with Mozilla, we we definitely wanted to take 0:12:16.500 --> 0:12:19.170 back the Web and show that the browser was not 0:12:19.170 --> 0:12:21.780 going to be Internet Explorer and Windows forever, which is 0:12:21.780 --> 0:12:24.600 what people would say, Oh, you can't drive a new 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.929 browser and get traction. Microsoft cornered the market and you 0:12:27.929 --> 0:12:30.210 should just give up. And they were wrong. We showed 0:12:30.210 --> 0:12:33.360 that with Firefox. We restarted the market. We showed Sergey 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.760 Brin in particular and Larry Page of Google. And they 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.180 they liked it so much. They made Chrome eventually and 0:12:39.179 --> 0:12:42.059 Safari at the same time. Steve Jobs saw the value 0:12:42.059 --> 0:12:45.359 of the web. So Safari was around the same time 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.050 as Firefox 0.9 or eight because that's. 0:12:49.050 --> 0:12:51.480 Really because Bill Gates and the Explorer there was now 0:12:51.630 --> 0:12:53.580 he's like, all right. Then he finally built the Explorer 0:12:53.580 --> 0:12:56.790 and then it got up to like 90 something percent 0:12:57.030 --> 0:13:00.390 of the people were 95% of the people were using that. 0:13:00.630 --> 0:13:04.020 So of course, they needed an alternative because I remember 0:13:04.020 --> 0:13:06.689 the floods. As soon as I found out about Firefox, 0:13:06.690 --> 0:13:08.819 I was gone. Oh, how moving? 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.600 Yeah. Pop ups. Remember that lack of tabs and ActiveX 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.990 and other security holes? Microsoft walked away from it. They 0:13:15.990 --> 0:13:19.680 put it under of a skeleton crew because they thought 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.780 they could go back and do Windows Vista and get 0:13:21.780 --> 0:13:24.449 good old fashioned Monopoly lock in like they had in 0:13:24.450 --> 0:13:29.310 the nineties. And they totally missed the Web 2.0 so-called. 0:13:29.309 --> 0:13:32.810 That's what John and Tim called it. But the point zero, 0:13:32.850 --> 0:13:35.849 which is kind of nerdy revolution that was happening through 0:13:35.850 --> 0:13:40.920 JavaScript and Moore's Law and browser innovation like in Firefox 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:44.630 and Safari and Opera, and they also missed mobile, right? 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.320 Even though they were doing things with Nokia, they missed 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:50.460 the iPhone. So Microsoft, in my view, miscalculated. But they definitely, 0:13:50.790 --> 0:13:54.300 after becoming a monopoly power with the browser, they just 0:13:54.300 --> 0:13:56.220 abandoned their explorer, they went to. 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.580 Running and now they've got Edge, which is a stupid, 0:13:59.580 --> 0:14:02.579 you know, browser that they bundle with the machine. And 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.329 of course, Chrome became dominant. Firefox, you know, certainly had 0:14:06.330 --> 0:14:09.990 its share, but Chrome became dominant. Google is evil and 0:14:09.990 --> 0:14:11.100 they removed the. 0:14:11.100 --> 0:14:11.730 New monopoly. 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:16.020 And they're monopoly and you don't there's no reason to 0:14:16.020 --> 0:14:18.930 use Google Chrome. It's harder to get off Gmail and 0:14:18.929 --> 0:14:21.720 docs and calendar and I'm working on it myself. But 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.110 it's easy to get off Chrome because Brave is a 0:14:25.110 --> 0:14:27.690 great alternative. And you know, when I started using it, 0:14:27.690 --> 0:14:30.510 there was probably, I don't know, maybe a million or so, 0:14:30.510 --> 0:14:33.990 half a million users. Now you got 60 million active 0:14:33.990 --> 0:14:37.380 users a month. I mean, and that's still just a 0:14:37.380 --> 0:14:40.350 drop in the bucket for what it needs to be 0:14:40.350 --> 0:14:42.930 for people to reclaim their privacy. 0:14:44.130 --> 0:14:45.720 Yeah, and you're right. We have to make it easy 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.690 to get off chrome, which, you know, in this world 0:14:48.690 --> 0:14:51.840 we live in. When you have some open source project 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:56.760 like Mozilla or what Steve Jobs forked into web kit, 0:14:57.150 --> 0:15:01.380 which was originally called HTML, and then Chrome forked into 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.350 the link and part of the chromium project, there's a 0:15:04.350 --> 0:15:07.020 sort of successful set of genes there. It's almost like, 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.880 you know, immune system genes or disease resistance genes, and 0:15:12.270 --> 0:15:14.670 those are not going to die. So people sometimes complain 0:15:14.670 --> 0:15:20.070 preinstalled on chromium, the open source that Google runs to 0:15:20.130 --> 0:15:22.560 build chromium, but it's also what edge is built on. 0:15:22.950 --> 0:15:26.250 Samsung browser is built on it, Yandex Opera and many others. 0:15:26.490 --> 0:15:30.180 So my my point here is that they're successful sort 0:15:30.180 --> 0:15:32.490 of open source DNA and we all share it and 0:15:32.490 --> 0:15:34.140 use it. And some of it goes back to Mozilla. 0:15:34.150 --> 0:15:36.330 So it's not all Google and a lot of it 0:15:36.330 --> 0:15:39.630 goes back to Apple Web case. But then there's what 0:15:39.630 --> 0:15:41.970 you do with the product that gives the user a 0:15:41.970 --> 0:15:44.300 fair deal, and that is something Google will not do. 0:15:44.310 --> 0:15:47.460 They're still talking about blocking so-called third party cookies. Those 0:15:47.460 --> 0:15:50.550 are the ones from the embedded invisible pixels and scripts 0:15:50.550 --> 0:15:53.640 that track you. And they they just kick the can 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.790 down the road again, delayed when they get rid of 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.260 third party cookies in almost every other browser. The browser 0:15:58.260 --> 0:16:01.020 out there now does protect you to some degree from 0:16:01.020 --> 0:16:04.260 those tracking cookies. Brave does the best job, but it's 0:16:04.260 --> 0:16:08.310 become standard except for Chrome, because Google is fundamentally this 0:16:08.310 --> 0:16:09.390 big ad exchange business. 0:16:10.110 --> 0:16:13.200 I actually was Joel that you would have a one year. 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.010 I'll have those cookies. Yeah, the Internet cookies. Sure you have. 0:16:17.130 --> 0:16:17.790 Yeah. Yeah. 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:19.370 Sorry. I went to. 0:16:19.590 --> 0:16:21.540 I got my psycho bunny on instead. 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.890 Now, that's good. So, you know, now here we are. 0:16:25.890 --> 0:16:28.830 You have brave. And what would you sort of you know, 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:33.240 it says it's private. It's better. Why? Let's say somebody 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:34.950 is tuning in to listen to bad trip out because 0:16:34.950 --> 0:16:37.320 they don't even know why. We haven't talked about Brave 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.300 for probably a year or so. I know Joe mentions 0:16:39.300 --> 0:16:42.600 it sometimes it's like because he doesn't use Chrome at all. Actually, 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.720 on my computer downstairs, I don't really use chrome, but 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.940 up here only Chrome was on. So I'm actually I'm 0:16:47.940 --> 0:16:50.940 on Chrome right now, but I haven't had the power 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.370 that Brave downloaded yet. But now I just got it downloaded. 0:16:53.730 --> 0:16:56.729 What what would you say to people as to why 0:16:56.940 --> 0:16:58.980 you want to get on this? What's that? What's that 0:16:58.980 --> 0:17:01.230 that action for them and why would they even care? 0:17:02.350 --> 0:17:06.880 Right. So brave blocks all privacy threats by default, and 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:08.680 there's tons of them on the web, not just third 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:13.810 party cookies. There's fingerprinting methods, there's redirect bounce trackers. There's 0:17:13.810 --> 0:17:17.949 all sorts of crazy hairy surface on the Web APIs 0:17:17.950 --> 0:17:19.630 that can be used for tracking, and it can also 0:17:19.630 --> 0:17:21.430 be used for good. If you go to a site 0:17:21.430 --> 0:17:24.070 like your bank where you want to have that trusted relationship. 0:17:24.310 --> 0:17:26.740 So you have to block the bad but keep the good. 0:17:26.950 --> 0:17:30.280 This is an ongoing research and development agenda. We do 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:31.990 it and you see it in the product in the 0:17:31.990 --> 0:17:34.330 form of a rape shield. It's the lion's shield at 0:17:34.330 --> 0:17:37.659 the right end of the address bar. And that's that's 0:17:37.660 --> 0:17:39.369 the privacy part of Brave. Right next to it is 0:17:39.369 --> 0:17:41.950 the Bat logo. That's the basic attention token. That's the 0:17:42.010 --> 0:17:44.560 feeling the user in for Brave Rewards, part of a 0:17:44.570 --> 0:17:49.840 great user value proposition. But we we made privacy on 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.510 by default and the web standards didn't I'm sorry Netscape 0:17:52.510 --> 0:17:54.820 did we kind of missed about even if Firefox did 0:17:54.820 --> 0:17:58.899 not make browsing on by default Safari probably do the 0:17:58.900 --> 0:18:01.780 jobs did they did private windows as an option in 0:18:01.780 --> 0:18:04.210 Safari before they were added to Firefox and they're now 0:18:04.210 --> 0:18:07.300 standard in all browsers. These are windows that just forget 0:18:07.300 --> 0:18:10.360 your your history and you don't save any cookies after 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:14.710 you close the window. And that's not enough. It doesn't 0:18:14.710 --> 0:18:17.710 give you network privacy. It doesn't protect you from from 0:18:17.710 --> 0:18:21.699 this tracking and privacy threat that is out there through ads. 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.899 So we've made privacy by default happen for all the 0:18:25.900 --> 0:18:28.480 tracking threats. This just blocks all the ads. We've watched 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.600 the YouTube pre-roll ads. So Brave is the best YouTube 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.429 app out there. By the way. This is something people 0:18:33.700 --> 0:18:37.920 are starting to appreciate that adds more ads. Yeah, No. 0:18:37.930 --> 0:18:39.520 As they overload the ads to push you in the 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.129 YouTube premium, people are saying, Hey brave, this is already 0:18:42.130 --> 0:18:43.300 I can block ads for free. 0:18:43.300 --> 0:18:45.429 Yeah I hate that I later. Oh, so for a 0:18:45.430 --> 0:18:47.440 month free, I know I'm not going to ever sign 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.160 up so never. Basically brave is sort of like an 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.970 anti-virus malware protection tool completely. 0:18:56.020 --> 0:18:59.920 That's right. In fact, malware went into ad tech. The 0:18:59.920 --> 0:19:04.150 malware distributors wanted to get machines taken over for ransomware 0:19:04.180 --> 0:19:06.970 originally for botnet conversion to do ads. Right. So they 0:19:06.970 --> 0:19:11.109 would put little exploit kit scripts hidden inside real ads 0:19:11.109 --> 0:19:15.520 they would pay to run in cheap slots on online sites. 0:19:15.700 --> 0:19:18.030 And that was that's one of the threats we block. 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.250 So there are actual dangers out there. You know, people 0:19:21.250 --> 0:19:23.850 could trap you, surveil, you spy on your boy. You 0:19:23.859 --> 0:19:27.129 there's there's malware distribution, too. But just the privacy raid 0:19:27.130 --> 0:19:30.700 also hurts you because we hear about data breaches every year. 0:19:30.710 --> 0:19:33.910 So all these adtech vendors are trying to profile you 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:37.510 for their own business, their own exit to some bigger company, 0:19:37.510 --> 0:19:40.419 their own return on the venture capital investment. Most of 0:19:40.420 --> 0:19:43.540 that's dying now and it's consolidated around Google and a 0:19:43.540 --> 0:19:48.220 few other big players Facebook, Twitter. But this privacy cost 0:19:48.220 --> 0:19:50.889 is not just that you might have a data breach 0:19:50.890 --> 0:19:53.410 or you feel spied on. You feel targeted by creepy ads. 0:19:53.619 --> 0:19:56.619 It's also that those scripts that keep running to target 0:19:56.619 --> 0:20:00.189 you in place, those ads burn your battery, especially on mobile, 0:20:00.190 --> 0:20:03.159 because they're running the radio a lot more like 40% 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.010 more than if you block them. And so you get 0:20:06.010 --> 0:20:09.310 a real performance winning page load and rendering. You get 0:20:09.310 --> 0:20:12.010 a real battery savings with brave. And this is measured 0:20:12.010 --> 0:20:15.909 independently by outfit UK called Green Spectre. In 2019, they 0:20:15.910 --> 0:20:18.940 showed a nice chart on Android. Brave was the winner 0:20:18.940 --> 0:20:21.340 in terms of battery savings and our own research team 0:20:21.340 --> 0:20:24.100 study just came to the same results. So it's an 0:20:24.100 --> 0:20:28.209 honest result. We walk so many scripts and reduce the 0:20:28.210 --> 0:20:30.489 traffic on the net and this also plays into your 0:20:30.490 --> 0:20:33.310 data plan. If you pay for that and everybody does 0:20:33.310 --> 0:20:36.940 pay ultimately somehow that there's a real savings to the privacy. 0:20:36.940 --> 0:20:40.450 And privacy means power of battery savings. It means faster 0:20:40.900 --> 0:20:41.679 paid for it. 0:20:41.770 --> 0:20:43.480 Well, and there's a lot of things that are built 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.429 into the browser that that I really like. When you 0:20:45.430 --> 0:20:48.190 go to the settings, you know, I like that you 0:20:48.190 --> 0:20:50.920 continue where you left off. You can easily import all 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.350 your bookmarks from, you know, wherever you haven't. So you 0:20:53.350 --> 0:20:55.840 can go to Chrome and export your whole HTML file 0:20:55.840 --> 0:21:00.070 and import them and organize them. Here you've got rewards 0:21:00.250 --> 0:21:04.120 for if you decide to watch ads, but you've also got, 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.360 you know, a built in wallet. You've got built in ipfs, 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.939 which is useful for next year. This is there's a 0:21:09.940 --> 0:21:13.990 lot of functionality. All I've only encountered, I think one 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:19.270 Chrome extension that didn't work in my brave browser, but 0:21:19.300 --> 0:21:23.260 ever all the extensions for all my wallets and LastPass 0:21:23.260 --> 0:21:25.330 and all those things metamask, they all work great. 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.350 They should. We took out the Google account system support 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.440 that extensions can use, but most don't because that's actually 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:36.310 a tracking vector to when Google realized that people weren't 0:21:36.310 --> 0:21:39.820 logging in to the browser. You still want to log 0:21:39.820 --> 0:21:42.310 into Chrome in the upper right corner. They said, Well, 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.609 darn it, we'll just log you in to our, you know, 0:21:45.609 --> 0:21:49.000 the browser. Any time you log in, in any tab 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:51.899 to YouTube or Gmail or one of our other log 0:21:51.910 --> 0:21:54.820 in services, and that tracks you across all tabs. So 0:21:54.820 --> 0:21:57.669 Google turns Chrome into spyware. They made it part of 0:21:57.670 --> 0:22:00.040 their ad business, and I can understand this. They have 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.590 to do this as a public company, but that's the 0:22:02.590 --> 0:22:04.600 opposite what we want. So we ripped out all that 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.390 that Google account tracking and that maybe what broke that extension. 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.780 So I want to talk a little bit more about mobile. Right. 0:22:10.780 --> 0:22:13.310 Because it would seem to me that you using desktop 0:22:13.310 --> 0:22:16.300 or your laptop brave is a great solution. But if 0:22:16.300 --> 0:22:19.690 you're using your mobile device, which everyone is, it almost 0:22:19.690 --> 0:22:23.260 seems like brave's pretty much the only solution because it 0:22:23.260 --> 0:22:26.300 speeds everything up, it kills your battery less, right? So 0:22:26.300 --> 0:22:28.900 it's like, yeah, maybe talk a bit more about mobile 0:22:29.109 --> 0:22:32.080 because I think that's just completely brilliant what you guys 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:32.440 are doing. 0:22:33.550 --> 0:22:35.949 Yeah, that's where the real battery savings comes in because 0:22:35.950 --> 0:22:39.820 all this ad scripting overload that we block really does 0:22:39.820 --> 0:22:41.800 run the radio, and the radio is a number one 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:44.800 or two consumer of the battery. The screen is usually 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:47.170 the number one consumer. But when you load a bunch 0:22:47.170 --> 0:22:49.149 of scripts in Chrome, it's going to go crazy on 0:22:49.150 --> 0:22:51.880 your radio that's going to drain the battery. So it's 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:54.430 also going to delay page loads sometimes because the mobile 0:22:54.430 --> 0:22:57.400 web came later, a lot of the publishers didn't update 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.280 their designs. Well, many have by now, but you have 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:02.560 pages on mobile that will never load because of all 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:05.590 this crazy scripting and ad tech. So we block all 0:23:05.590 --> 0:23:07.990 that and there's a huge savings to your battery. It 0:23:08.230 --> 0:23:10.900 makes the page load faster. It's much more responsive. We 0:23:10.900 --> 0:23:13.510 do a great job with YouTube, so I do my 0:23:13.780 --> 0:23:15.669 I keep an eye on the YouTube app just for 0:23:15.670 --> 0:23:17.740 misery and to see what the ad pre-roll ads are 0:23:17.740 --> 0:23:20.200 and keep up with the Joneses. But it's a bad app. 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:23.199 So in Brave we have something, we'll bring it to Android. 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.379 It's already on iOS called Playlist. If you load a 0:23:26.380 --> 0:23:28.990 YouTube video or another video on a different site, you'll 0:23:28.990 --> 0:23:31.000 see a button up and the address bar on the 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:33.490 right to add the playlist. And you can open that 0:23:33.490 --> 0:23:36.220 video on the playlist. And it for me seamlessly switches 0:23:36.220 --> 0:23:40.090 over to a custom video player. There's no ads and 0:23:40.090 --> 0:23:44.320 you can save it for watching later. You can play 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:46.870 it when you're offline on a train. You can do 0:23:46.869 --> 0:23:48.850 all sorts of things that you should be allowed to do. 0:23:48.850 --> 0:23:52.000 You cannot easily get the file out or pirated, but 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.909 that's okay. You're just viewing it. This is something that any. 0:23:55.340 --> 0:23:56.930 Web browser should be able to deal with any web 0:23:56.930 --> 0:24:00.800 video that's put out in a standards way, conforming way 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:03.710 without DRM. And that's what most of YouTube is. So 0:24:03.710 --> 0:24:05.719 playlist is something I encourage people to check out on 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:09.520 iOS coming to Android. It's really great for YouTube. You 0:24:09.530 --> 0:24:11.600 can save it and playlist. Watch it later. If you 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:13.850 get interrupted, you don't worry about losing where you were 0:24:13.850 --> 0:24:18.590 in the YouTube mobile or web app. It's in your playlist. 0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:21.350 I want to add something it's just going to follow 0:24:21.350 --> 0:24:24.560 up on. This is one of my favorite, you know, 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:27.379 online website apps that I've used and I've actually worked 0:24:27.380 --> 0:24:29.870 with them in the past as Cloud America. And what 0:24:29.869 --> 0:24:31.640 I like about cloud in there is like, if I'm 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:35.449 on my mobile device, I don't need a high res 0:24:35.450 --> 0:24:39.200 image to download, right? I don't need a huge video 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:41.570 to download. A lot of times these websites are so 0:24:41.570 --> 0:24:44.990 filled with just it's an app or something that's 4k. 0:24:45.030 --> 0:24:47.679 And here I am looking at it on something, you know, 0:24:47.780 --> 0:24:51.410 that's super small. And so is that something you guys 0:24:51.410 --> 0:24:53.960 are going to be integrating or something similar to that? 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:58.820 Because it's almost like the automatic resizing of things saves 0:24:58.820 --> 0:25:00.560 so much space. 0:25:01.340 --> 0:25:04.550 We've looked at it. Google used to have something like this, too. 0:25:04.790 --> 0:25:08.149 The problem is it's a huge privacy problem. If you 0:25:08.150 --> 0:25:10.280 don't do it right and you end up tracking what 0:25:10.310 --> 0:25:13.149 users are viewing by looking at how you have to 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:15.680 transcode their images. You want to do it in a 0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:18.970 in a way that's scalable across the world and efficient. 0:25:18.980 --> 0:25:20.960 So we keep looking at and looking at partners like 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:24.740 Cloudflare and trying to get the privacy right. But what 0:25:24.740 --> 0:25:27.410 we mainly benefit from is just blocking so much stuff. 0:25:27.410 --> 0:25:30.380 So we've found, by the way, in doing something called 0:25:30.380 --> 0:25:33.170 Brave News, which is another one of those batteries included 0:25:33.170 --> 0:25:35.820 features and brave. If you scroll up the bottom of 0:25:35.840 --> 0:25:38.420 a new tab page, you'll see a newsfeed and it's 0:25:38.750 --> 0:25:41.300 matched on your device, just like the private ads and 0:25:41.300 --> 0:25:44.510 rewards that you can opt into. And that private newsfeed 0:25:45.020 --> 0:25:48.190 is based on RSS feeds from around the web. Remember 0:25:48.230 --> 0:25:53.480 RSS and it has privacy preserving properties. It doesn't just 0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:56.689 build up a dossier or a profile of you on 0:25:56.690 --> 0:26:00.080 the server side, and you can customize that. You can 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:02.060 add your own feeds, you can take out some of 0:26:02.060 --> 0:26:03.470 the feeds that we think might be good for you. 0:26:03.470 --> 0:26:07.190 But the way we curate those is not by profiling you, 0:26:07.190 --> 0:26:09.770 it's just by sending catalogs down to you. Same with 0:26:09.770 --> 0:26:13.580 the private ads and then letting local machine learning match 0:26:13.580 --> 0:26:16.640 or in this case, very simple logic, just match what 0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:19.670 your history seems to be against what you get in 0:26:19.670 --> 0:26:23.389 the news feed that includes all the news sources and 0:26:23.390 --> 0:26:26.350 just picks the ones that match your history. And that 0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:28.970 that's part of our toolkit here is to block things 0:26:29.210 --> 0:26:33.139 and to use a smarter way of getting content to you. 0:26:33.140 --> 0:26:35.070 And one of the things that I wanted to mention 0:26:35.070 --> 0:26:37.609 about news that you you inspired there is we do 0:26:37.609 --> 0:26:41.030 try to keep the images from being too oversized. And 0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:44.330 sometimes we find news sites like you said, are shipping 0:26:44.330 --> 0:26:46.490 the 4K down to the phone for no good reason. 0:26:46.490 --> 0:26:48.770 So we actually have around that. So part of our 0:26:48.770 --> 0:26:52.100 greatest toolkit is to be a muscular client that has 0:26:52.100 --> 0:26:54.739 a lot of sort of smart filter rules that we 0:26:54.740 --> 0:26:57.800 can update quickly in a day or two to shield 0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:00.920 your privacy to get the right image sizes to you 0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:02.780 to block things and save your battery. 0:27:04.570 --> 0:27:08.530 So if I'm showing my screen here right now and 0:27:08.530 --> 0:27:13.540 you can see on this browser, I've I've had 8061 0:27:13.540 --> 0:27:19.359 trackers in ads blocked saved 283.2 meg of bandwidth and 0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:21.850 7 minutes of time. This is a computer I've had 0:27:21.850 --> 0:27:24.220 for just a few weeks. So this is a new install, 0:27:24.220 --> 0:27:26.380 which is why my brave rewards are new. I just 0:27:26.380 --> 0:27:31.750 looked at my my iPhone and on here my brave 0:27:31.750 --> 0:27:36.580 browser says 96,000 trackers in ads blocked almost three gig 0:27:36.580 --> 0:27:40.280 of estimated data saved an hour of time and and 0:27:40.359 --> 0:27:44.080 I've got rewards in my brave wallet as well so 0:27:44.080 --> 0:27:47.140 let's talk a little bit about that the the rewards 0:27:47.410 --> 0:27:52.240 the the attention token and how we do that and 0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:54.280 how it's used within the ecosystem. 0:27:55.480 --> 0:27:57.670 So when I said it created a monster, I meant 0:27:58.150 --> 0:28:01.600 the worst part about JavaScript. The role in ad tech 0:28:02.170 --> 0:28:07.360 was that it was something where the browser was actually 0:28:08.170 --> 0:28:10.929 in the middle of all these ads being placed and 0:28:10.930 --> 0:28:13.389 all the tracking happening. The first ad targeted you, and 0:28:13.390 --> 0:28:16.090 then depending on what ads you viewed or the cheating 0:28:16.090 --> 0:28:17.800 that they do to try to say you to that 0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:20.889 when you didn't, JavaScript was involved there too. So I 0:28:20.890 --> 0:28:23.770 felt like Dr. Frankenstein a bit, right? They had their 0:28:24.100 --> 0:28:26.889 kill on Monster because that was not only draining your 0:28:26.890 --> 0:28:29.469 battery and exposing to all the threats we talked about. 0:28:30.280 --> 0:28:32.689 You weren't a piece you weren't out in as a 0:28:32.710 --> 0:28:35.320 real person who should be given part of the revenue. 0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:37.780 So from the beginning with Brave, I wanted to deal 0:28:37.780 --> 0:28:40.630 the user in to show, not just tell, that we 0:28:40.630 --> 0:28:44.320 put the user first. A lot of upstart browsers and 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:47.020 privacy products will say, you know, our product is the 0:28:47.020 --> 0:28:50.860 best and we put the user first, but talk is cheap. 0:28:51.070 --> 0:28:54.460 If we actually pay you at least as much as 0:28:54.460 --> 0:28:57.190 we get from the gross ad revenue, then that I 0:28:57.190 --> 0:29:00.400 think aligns our interests and avoids these conflicts of interests 0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:03.490 that the big tech companies have where they become adversarial 0:29:03.490 --> 0:29:06.790 toward their users in order to serve their shareholders and 0:29:06.790 --> 0:29:09.790 their bottom line. So we do that with brave rewards. 0:29:09.790 --> 0:29:13.360 It's an optional system. We started out with Bitcoin and 0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:15.700 this was in 2016. We built a system where you 0:29:15.700 --> 0:29:17.620 could bring your own Bitcoin and you could send it 0:29:17.620 --> 0:29:21.280 to creators, website owners really who'd signed up with us. 0:29:21.580 --> 0:29:25.030 And it was pretty much direct. It was through Multisig 0:29:25.450 --> 0:29:28.270 wallets that Bitgo helped us with. So there was good 0:29:28.270 --> 0:29:31.060 security and no, no, no brave custody in the middle. 0:29:31.060 --> 0:29:35.050 It was like a two or three month scheme. But 0:29:35.050 --> 0:29:38.560 we found that between the Bitcoin block size issue and 0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:42.220 the congestion in 2017 and the fact that people want 0:29:42.220 --> 0:29:44.620 to hold Bitcoin because you had Bitcoin back then, if 0:29:44.740 --> 0:29:47.740 you don't want to send it to some random publisher, 0:29:47.740 --> 0:29:49.120 you want to keep it because it's worth a lot 0:29:49.120 --> 0:29:53.690 more now even with current market. So we realized we 0:29:53.690 --> 0:29:57.160 needed a new smart contract system in a new approach 0:29:57.160 --> 0:29:59.890 that included the browser as an element in the system. 0:29:59.890 --> 0:30:03.830 Because you cannot do ads and attention and privacy on 0:30:03.830 --> 0:30:08.410 the blockchain public blockchains, unlike zcash with pseudo transactions, but 0:30:08.410 --> 0:30:14.170 in general, distributed public ledgers or decentralized public ledgers are public. 0:30:15.670 --> 0:30:18.160 And that means that you can fingerprint the user by 0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:21.850 looking at transactions over time. Chainalysis Does this people discover 0:30:21.850 --> 0:30:24.820 who was behind the Mt. Gox hack or where the 0:30:24.820 --> 0:30:27.500 funds went? Things like that. People are looking at where 0:30:27.520 --> 0:30:29.590 FDX got its funds and where they might have gone. 0:30:30.610 --> 0:30:33.430 So there's a sort of problem for privacy if you 0:30:33.430 --> 0:30:35.500 try to do everything on chain. Also, like I said, 0:30:35.500 --> 0:30:38.530 it got expensive on bitcoin in 2017, got expensive on 0:30:38.530 --> 0:30:41.920 Ethereum after that. So we always included the browser as 0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:46.480 sort of a ultimate edge in our decentralized system, where 0:30:46.480 --> 0:30:49.510 each browser, each supercomputer in your pocket or your laptop 0:30:49.690 --> 0:30:52.480 can do a lot of local processing to match ads 0:30:52.480 --> 0:30:57.400 against the catalog and to mint zero knowledge proofs or 0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:02.080 sign your blind signature certificates. And this is at low cost, 0:31:02.170 --> 0:31:05.140 but it can preserve your anonymity, it can keep you shielded, 0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:08.020 and yet your you into the revenue flow. And that's 0:31:08.020 --> 0:31:09.940 what we built with great rewards as an opt in 0:31:09.940 --> 0:31:12.400 private ad system. You can also add your own funds. 0:31:12.670 --> 0:31:16.330 You can tip or give a recurring monthly contribution to creators. 0:31:16.330 --> 0:31:19.390 We've got, I think, 1.3 million creators signed up. A 0:31:19.390 --> 0:31:21.700 lot of them are YouTubers because they either never got 0:31:21.700 --> 0:31:25.300 monetized or they got demonetized without being kicked off the platform. 0:31:25.870 --> 0:31:28.150 But YouTube is still where the videos are hosted. Well, 0:31:28.150 --> 0:31:30.940 in the comments or so, we provide those creators an 0:31:30.940 --> 0:31:33.430 alternative means for their fans to support them. And that 0:31:33.640 --> 0:31:36.520 is the fan, the creator, Direct flow I mentioned. And 0:31:36.790 --> 0:31:39.940 once you form a relationship with that creator, you can 0:31:39.940 --> 0:31:43.720 even go direct through your self-custody wallet to their creators, 0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:46.390 wallet on chain, on a fast chain with low fees 0:31:46.390 --> 0:31:48.940 if you want to do so, we're paving the way 0:31:48.940 --> 0:31:54.100 toward usable self-custody and direct peer to peer crypto through 0:31:54.100 --> 0:31:57.520 great rewards. We're getting users from a very large funnel 0:31:57.520 --> 0:31:59.740 up to 60 million. It's been fluctuating on the monthly active, 0:31:59.740 --> 0:32:02.200 so that's kind of a difficult number. I can explain 0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:05.350 more and we're getting those users. Funneled into crypto and 0:32:05.710 --> 0:32:11.260 in winter or summer or nuclear winter, whatever happened to FCX? 0:32:11.530 --> 0:32:15.340 Whatever happened there is causing a real chill right now. 0:32:15.580 --> 0:32:17.950 We're bullish on crypto. We think in the long run 0:32:17.950 --> 0:32:20.620 this is the right way to advance the users interests 0:32:20.620 --> 0:32:22.720 above all the central powers. 0:32:23.050 --> 0:32:25.510 Yeah, just scroll down on your website. Basic attention token. 0:32:25.510 --> 0:32:27.790 You can see you still have FCX there, so you 0:32:27.790 --> 0:32:31.900 need to change that to WTI. Yes, probably. 0:32:32.100 --> 0:32:34.870 Yeah. It's a self-serve system. We're going to try to 0:32:34.870 --> 0:32:37.880 decentralize it through in a TS, but they did verify. 0:32:37.880 --> 0:32:40.330 I think we have no other relationship with them on, 0:32:40.330 --> 0:32:43.000 on having an account with them or any assets with them. 0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:44.830 And I'm glad to say that because a lot of 0:32:44.830 --> 0:32:48.400 people are in big trouble now, unfortunately. And it's a 0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:49.240 real hit to crypto. 0:32:49.630 --> 0:32:52.630 Yeah. So there's no solutions for you. Okay. 0:32:52.690 --> 0:32:53.020 Right. 0:32:53.740 --> 0:32:55.840 I want to ask about advertising, cause I know some 0:32:55.840 --> 0:32:58.030 people say, well, wait a second, so Brave doesn't know 0:32:58.030 --> 0:33:02.380 anything really about me. How can they, you know, show 0:33:02.380 --> 0:33:04.690 me ads that are relevant to me? Because here I 0:33:04.690 --> 0:33:08.470 am when I'm on Instagram, I for one minute I 0:33:08.470 --> 0:33:11.080 buy way too much shit on Instagram ads because it's 0:33:11.080 --> 0:33:14.290 like it knows me, right? And I'm like, Oh, hell yeah. 0:33:14.290 --> 0:33:17.680 I need this freaking whistle thing. There's it helps relieve 0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:24.310 the stress about this. I appreciate Instagram. Right? So how 0:33:24.310 --> 0:33:29.080 does Brave give people relevant ads to products or services 0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:31.450 that they need when you don't know anything about it? 0:33:33.040 --> 0:33:35.200 Good question. So when you think about the way ad 0:33:35.200 --> 0:33:38.440 Tech works on Instagram or Facebook or Google, they're collecting 0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:41.440 all this data about everybody and they can put it 0:33:41.440 --> 0:33:44.050 in a big database and they can do studies and 0:33:44.380 --> 0:33:47.440 regressions and say, Hey, this person looks like that person. 0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:50.080 That person bought a car, This person might buy a car. 0:33:50.080 --> 0:33:52.900 Let's show them a car. That's powerful, but a lot 0:33:52.900 --> 0:33:55.930 of it is spammy. They guess wrong about you. They 0:33:55.930 --> 0:33:58.840 show you ads that you don't like or they hammer 0:33:58.840 --> 0:34:01.150 you with the same ad over and over. That's called retargeting. 0:34:01.750 --> 0:34:04.930 What we do doesn't collect any data. We don't want 0:34:04.930 --> 0:34:06.850 to be a mini Google. Then we'd have a hard 0:34:06.850 --> 0:34:09.040 time convincing anybody to trust us, even if we did 0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:13.089 share revenue. So we make the matching happen not in 0:34:13.090 --> 0:34:15.250 the cloud but on your device. And the way to 0:34:15.250 --> 0:34:16.989 do that is not to have all the ads on 0:34:16.989 --> 0:34:19.570 your device because they're big and they're video or web pages. 0:34:19.780 --> 0:34:23.020 We send links to those ads with keywords next to them. 0:34:23.260 --> 0:34:26.680 One Perot in a catalog, and this catalog updates a 0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:28.710 couple of times a day. And it's not that big. 0:34:28.719 --> 0:34:31.120 This doesn't use up your data plan. This is kind 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:33.700 of like what browsers do to keep track of malware 0:34:33.700 --> 0:34:36.520 and phishing threats with, say, browsing lists or our own 0:34:37.060 --> 0:34:40.560 filter rule lists for the rape shield. We update these 0:34:40.600 --> 0:34:43.120 these data files. And in the case of rewards, there's 0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:48.580 a catalog of ads you can get identified by their location, 0:34:48.580 --> 0:34:51.670 their web address and some keywords. So then the challenges 0:34:51.700 --> 0:34:54.250 do the matching with local machine learning. Only when you 0:34:54.250 --> 0:34:57.100 turn on rewards does happen. It's like keeping a separate 0:34:57.100 --> 0:34:59.980 history and all browsers keep history usually for two weeks 0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:03.250 with great rewards so longer because your value may extend 0:35:03.250 --> 0:35:07.930 back 30 days to come and look that period in attack. 0:35:08.380 --> 0:35:10.540 But the separate history can be cleared by you. It 0:35:10.540 --> 0:35:12.580 doesn't leak out to us. We don't follow that history. 0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:15.190 But the local machine learning and the ad agent can 0:35:15.190 --> 0:35:17.380 then say, Hey, you can look in your car sites. 0:35:17.860 --> 0:35:20.020 I'm going to pick the row in the catalog that 0:35:20.020 --> 0:35:22.930 has the car or the making model for that matter 0:35:22.930 --> 0:35:26.980 keyword that our direct sales team already did a deal for. 0:35:27.190 --> 0:35:29.230 So we're we're out there doing direct sales and we're 0:35:29.230 --> 0:35:32.379 working on scaling this up to get more demand partners in, 0:35:32.710 --> 0:35:36.160 but always with privacy. Instead of surveilling you and pulling 0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:38.980 your data into our cloud, we push out the offers 0:35:38.980 --> 0:35:41.950 to the ultimate edge, the browser in your pocket, and 0:35:41.950 --> 0:35:44.649 that's where the matching happens. And then if you do 0:35:44.650 --> 0:35:46.450 see the ad, we have to confirm that. But that's 0:35:46.450 --> 0:35:49.750 where that blind signature cryptography I mentioned comes in in 0:35:49.750 --> 0:35:52.780 the future. Zero knowledge proof. So there are great tools 0:35:52.780 --> 0:35:56.380 in the cryptographic tool kit. They've been developed since the 0:35:56.380 --> 0:35:59.980 nineties and they're especially being used in blockchain projects for 0:36:00.340 --> 0:36:04.810 keeping you anonymous, keeping your identity unbreakable from the particular 0:36:05.230 --> 0:36:07.450 things you viewed. So all we have to do is 0:36:07.450 --> 0:36:10.419 get honest counting of the views for an ad to 0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:13.360 show the ad buyer that the ad performed. They don't 0:36:13.360 --> 0:36:15.219 need to know about you. They might like to because 0:36:15.219 --> 0:36:17.800 a lot of little nosy that way. We don't have 0:36:17.800 --> 0:36:19.960 that information in our servers. We don't want them to 0:36:19.960 --> 0:36:21.729 have it. We don't need them to have it. And 0:36:21.820 --> 0:36:25.480 if the outperforms, then they should be happy with what 0:36:25.480 --> 0:36:27.790 they bought and that's where we share the revenue with you. 0:36:28.300 --> 0:36:32.080 Brendan What do you think the number is of active 0:36:32.080 --> 0:36:36.850 users that would put you on Google's radar and go, Oh, 0:36:36.850 --> 0:36:37.810 this is a threat? 0:36:39.430 --> 0:36:43.149 Yeah, Google knows about us. But I think when Firefox 0:36:43.150 --> 0:36:48.100 was still, you know, plausibly saying they have like 450 0:36:48.100 --> 0:36:51.550 million monthly active users when it was kind of a 0:36:51.550 --> 0:36:55.320 fragile number. Same reason ours is it was falling and 0:36:55.520 --> 0:36:58.150 the monthly active user is somebody who use you once 0:36:58.150 --> 0:37:00.460 a month or more. Well, some users will use you 0:37:00.460 --> 0:37:02.529 every day but Sunday. And that's a really valuable use 0:37:02.530 --> 0:37:06.060 that's almost daily at. Whereas other monthly active users just 0:37:06.060 --> 0:37:08.969 start their Windows PC at home and it fires up. 0:37:09.250 --> 0:37:11.550 Popups are brave from the system tray, but they hardly 0:37:11.550 --> 0:37:14.760 touch it. That's not a valuable user. So monthly active 0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:17.760 users is a tricky number and it's not really well defined. 0:37:18.780 --> 0:37:20.759 But if you get into the hundreds of millions, you're 0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:23.730 on Google's radar. You get 60 million around there like 0:37:23.730 --> 0:37:25.259 we have. You're on Google's radar. 0:37:25.440 --> 0:37:28.830 So how do we you know, this next step is 0:37:28.830 --> 0:37:30.839 just going to be the question that, you know, is 0:37:30.840 --> 0:37:32.730 in your on your mind is you're going to sleep 0:37:32.730 --> 0:37:35.810 every night is how do we get to, you know, 0:37:35.820 --> 0:37:40.589 100 million, 250 million, you know, a billion? How do 0:37:40.590 --> 0:37:42.300 you attain that? 0:37:43.320 --> 0:37:45.390 Yeah, I do. I do think about the slot because 0:37:45.660 --> 0:37:48.570 at some point you're up against the device makers and 0:37:48.570 --> 0:37:50.609 they tend to put Chrome in there on the Android 0:37:50.610 --> 0:37:53.670 OS as the default. Even though they've been spanked by 0:37:53.670 --> 0:37:58.590 the European Competitive Practices Regulator for doing that, that they're 0:37:58.590 --> 0:38:02.069 not supposed to force Chrome is the default. And in 0:38:02.070 --> 0:38:07.710 the US there's been similar concern on iOS. On the 0:38:07.710 --> 0:38:10.529 iPhone iPad it used to be only Safari could be 0:38:10.530 --> 0:38:13.650 the default browser iOS 14 a couple of summers ago. Change. 0:38:13.650 --> 0:38:17.430 This was good because a lot of users want readability 0:38:17.730 --> 0:38:20.009 and finally we could do it. I think it happened 0:38:20.010 --> 0:38:22.980 in part because of competition. I think it happened also 0:38:22.980 --> 0:38:25.859 due to some, let's say, moral pressure, not the politicians 0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:28.469 or all that moral, but much of Congress people on 0:38:29.190 --> 0:38:31.890 antitrust Committee sent a letter to Tim Cook, and in 0:38:31.890 --> 0:38:34.500 that letter they said you should allow users to make 0:38:34.500 --> 0:38:37.560 a different browser or mail app be the default. And 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:40.500 by the way, Brave's policy guy helped draft that letter. 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:47.880 So there's a mix of policy and competition and finding 0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:50.010 the right partners that we can use to grow and 0:38:50.010 --> 0:38:52.860 to get a bit more fair play playing field. And 0:38:52.860 --> 0:38:55.170 that's on my mind as we get bigger, because the 0:38:55.170 --> 0:38:58.170 bigger you get, the harder it is to get on 0:38:58.170 --> 0:39:02.430 to the phones. To replace Chrome, you have to find 0:39:02.430 --> 0:39:05.640 partners who will help distribute you or offset the distribution cost. 0:39:05.969 --> 0:39:09.000 This is this is true, especially now. It was even 0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:12.420 true back in the Firefox days. The hooks grew organically 0:39:12.420 --> 0:39:15.759 very big before Chrome finally, I think in 2011 started 0:39:15.760 --> 0:39:20.660 to pick. And by the way, Google has to pay 0:39:20.660 --> 0:39:24.290 for distribution, too, because on Windows, as you know, edges 0:39:24.290 --> 0:39:27.219 is equal to Microsoft. Mm hmm. So Google's in there 0:39:27.230 --> 0:39:32.149 distributing Chrome, somehow advertising, doing some sketchy deals to push 0:39:32.150 --> 0:39:33.200 it onto your hard disk. 0:39:34.360 --> 0:39:36.739 Hmm. So let me ask you this then. So. So 0:39:36.739 --> 0:39:40.100 what do you think is is next? What's what excites 0:39:40.100 --> 0:39:43.880 you the most kind of moving forward with Bray? Because, 0:39:44.150 --> 0:39:46.370 you know, you've been here since the very beginning. We're 0:39:46.370 --> 0:39:48.919 moving into Web three, and you're the one that's helping, 0:39:49.219 --> 0:39:51.770 you know, in a lot of ways, help content creators, 0:39:51.770 --> 0:39:53.959 own their own content. So you're kind of the Web 0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:57.190 three browser in my mind, right? Joel's my Angel. Joe's 0:39:57.200 --> 0:40:00.350 a big fan of Brave. He uses it everywhere and 0:40:00.360 --> 0:40:02.930 yells at me when I'm not using it. And I'm like, 0:40:02.930 --> 0:40:04.489 Oh yeah, I need to get back on that. What 0:40:04.489 --> 0:40:06.590 am I doing? And so it's like, what? What are 0:40:06.590 --> 0:40:08.960 some of those things that excites you the most about 0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:09.830 where you're going? 0:40:12.620 --> 0:40:15.230 Yeah, I think we are aspiring to be the web browser. 0:40:15.260 --> 0:40:18.440 Nobody knows what free means exactly, but the best way 0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:20.450 to predict the future is to invent it, like Alan 0:40:21.050 --> 0:40:25.100 Xerox Park fame said. And the general notions around it 0:40:25.100 --> 0:40:31.190 are solid. They're self-custody. Self-sovereign identity, user sovereignty. Being able 0:40:31.190 --> 0:40:34.850 to go direct on a blockchain, be able to use Ipfs, 0:40:34.850 --> 0:40:39.440 for instance, for data storage without any concern that someone 0:40:39.440 --> 0:40:42.379 out there is going to censor you or some nation 0:40:42.380 --> 0:40:44.750 state is going to do something dear to you. We 0:40:44.750 --> 0:40:47.600 also have Tor built in the desktop frame that I 0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:52.460 mentioned that Tor private Windows for network privacy. What excites 0:40:52.460 --> 0:40:55.730 me about Web3 is that I think crypto gets to 0:40:55.730 --> 0:40:58.609 go social and it needs to, right? If crypto is 0:40:58.610 --> 0:41:02.960 just a bunch of hex addresses and signing transactions and 0:41:03.230 --> 0:41:07.219 it's kind of low level and sort of complex. It's 0:41:07.219 --> 0:41:10.220 like the internet before the web browser, before Mosaic, let's say. 0:41:10.230 --> 0:41:12.650 It's like the old command line I used in the 0:41:12.650 --> 0:41:15.890 eighties and, you know, email was around then, so it's 0:41:15.890 --> 0:41:18.049 kind of familiar, but using it, we kind of miss 0:41:18.050 --> 0:41:20.390 the quality of that. But a lot of that stuff 0:41:20.390 --> 0:41:24.800 like Telnet and FTP kind of died for most people. 0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:28.009 And that's, I think what needs to happen with crypto. 0:41:28.010 --> 0:41:30.320 And it's not to die, but to be abstract and 0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:33.109 simplify it so you can do what looks more like 0:41:33.110 --> 0:41:37.280 an app interaction or compound transaction or meta transaction instead 0:41:37.280 --> 0:41:40.940 of doing these little detailed signing and confirming transactions with 0:41:40.940 --> 0:41:47.480 hex addresses and using people and trusted identities, pseudonyms as 0:41:47.480 --> 0:41:51.200 well as real names to interact with people and build 0:41:51.200 --> 0:41:53.719 up reputation is going to be super important, I think. 0:41:54.050 --> 0:41:56.870 It shouldn't belong only to Twitter. Sorry, it shouldn't belong 0:41:56.870 --> 0:41:59.450 only to Facebook. This has to be something that's decentralized 0:41:59.780 --> 0:42:03.049 and it's it's hard to decentralize, right? My my best 0:42:03.050 --> 0:42:05.030 idea right now is that you actually don't want to 0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:07.489 try to compete with Twitter. I don't want to do 0:42:07.489 --> 0:42:10.910 a brave Twitter. I want to do a front end 0:42:10.910 --> 0:42:14.600 in brave. This aggregates social and then lets you re 0:42:14.630 --> 0:42:16.910 aggregate it sort of like that news, brave news I 0:42:16.910 --> 0:42:19.700 mentioned where the RSS feeds can be matched against your 0:42:19.700 --> 0:42:23.750 interests locally. So I want my Twitter friends. If they 0:42:23.810 --> 0:42:25.969 moved to Mastodon, I want to keep track them through 0:42:25.969 --> 0:42:29.899 my private address book, which I have for my Mac 0:42:29.900 --> 0:42:33.350 OS and iOS. I want to even resurrect them on 0:42:33.350 --> 0:42:35.330 a thread where they seem to have disappeared because they 0:42:35.330 --> 0:42:38.120 left Twitter. I got kicked off Twitter. I can find them. 0:42:38.120 --> 0:42:42.080 I can superimpose comments from different sources. In some ways 0:42:42.080 --> 0:42:45.410 you can imagine YouTube becomes just as video hosting. If 0:42:45.410 --> 0:42:48.440 it weren't for this social aspect where people comment and 0:42:48.440 --> 0:42:51.110 that could be lifted out of YouTube and into the 0:42:51.110 --> 0:42:53.739 browser and the comments can be stored in IP address 0:42:53.989 --> 0:42:56.210 or even on your Dropbox or iCloud because they aren't 0:42:56.210 --> 0:42:59.840 that big. The personal Twitter Twitter posts they do even 0:42:59.840 --> 0:43:05.000 with images, is less space than my home pictures, videos 0:43:05.000 --> 0:43:07.650 of my kids. So there's something to be said for 0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:10.820 user first that uses all the tools. It uses your 0:43:10.820 --> 0:43:14.839 private cloud, it uses gifs, which is not a blockchain, 0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:17.810 but it is a peer to peer network. It uses blockchains, 0:43:18.110 --> 0:43:22.070 it uses the browser storage, it uses the browser's ability 0:43:22.070 --> 0:43:25.850 to compose and decompose or aggregates content. 0:43:26.820 --> 0:43:30.030 Well. Well, I'm I'm going to preach at everybody and say, 0:43:30.030 --> 0:43:33.090 if you're still using Chrome, you don't need to. It's 0:43:33.090 --> 0:43:36.000 a it's a real easy switch gang to export your 0:43:36.000 --> 0:43:39.390 bookmarks and then bring them into brave. Go to brave 0:43:39.390 --> 0:43:42.719 dot com. You can download it right here and you're 0:43:42.719 --> 0:43:47.070 you're a hero Brandon so much so that when we 0:43:47.070 --> 0:43:51.270 did blockchain heroes all those many years ago. I've got 0:43:51.270 --> 0:43:55.319 to show you this one of the heroes was inspired 0:43:55.860 --> 0:44:00.390 by you. His name was Courage. And he's he's got 0:44:00.390 --> 0:44:03.029 some good eyes on this guy here. I mean, he's 0:44:03.030 --> 0:44:04.410 like all muscle. 0:44:04.530 --> 0:44:05.550 He didn't skip leg day? 0:44:05.940 --> 0:44:10.770 No. Ha ha ha ha ha. Not at all. Well, 0:44:10.770 --> 0:44:11.280 did we? 0:44:11.430 --> 0:44:14.100 We appreciate you colors a serious packs here, by the way. 0:44:14.100 --> 0:44:17.219 I want to say I admire that. How swole you 0:44:17.219 --> 0:44:19.050 are over there. Courage. 0:44:19.680 --> 0:44:22.680 I used to whip, though I wasn't eating as right 0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:25.080 as I came to be later in life. Now I 0:44:25.080 --> 0:44:25.770 eat too old for. 0:44:26.430 --> 0:44:29.340 It's good for you. It's easy to do. We really 0:44:29.340 --> 0:44:30.779 appreciate it, brother. Thank you so much. 0:44:31.860 --> 0:44:33.120 Thank you for having me. A lot of fun. 0:44:35.130 --> 0:44:38.040 Always great to talk to you. The movers and shakers 0:44:38.040 --> 0:44:42.009 of the technology space want one another to speak to Brendan. 0:44:42.030 --> 0:44:45.270 He's also a real down to earth, humble dude, in 0:44:45.270 --> 0:44:47.670 spite of all of his massive accomplishments. 0:44:48.780 --> 0:44:50.460 I loved it. I like to have him on again. 0:44:50.489 --> 0:44:53.940 This dude's killing it. And I love how you mentioned him. 0:44:53.960 --> 0:44:57.510 I love how he's like, Oh, my God. People are 0:44:57.510 --> 0:45:01.399 using the image and they're using JavaScript to track people. 0:45:01.410 --> 0:45:05.880 I've got to unravel this. Sounds like he literally stopped 0:45:05.880 --> 0:45:08.640 in in and said, I got to make this right. 0:45:08.670 --> 0:45:10.230 And then he worked on a solution. A lot of 0:45:10.230 --> 0:45:13.830 times people what they would do is, Oh, look at 0:45:13.830 --> 0:45:16.530 how much money we can make. Now with online advertising. 0:45:16.530 --> 0:45:20.219 I want to become a big trillionaire. And but instead 0:45:20.219 --> 0:45:22.590 he said, No, let's give this money back to the people. 0:45:22.860 --> 0:45:25.410 Let's build a better solution, and we're going to do 0:45:25.410 --> 0:45:29.730 it together. And to me, like this, dude, this is 0:45:29.730 --> 0:45:33.780 what I have here in my book. Yup. I can't see. 0:45:33.780 --> 0:45:35.160 That's like I just raised my heart. 0:45:35.219 --> 0:45:38.430 It's like it's way up there is erases the video screen. 0:45:38.460 --> 0:45:39.310 It's off. You know. 0:45:39.520 --> 0:45:42.780 I can smell what's coming out from under your ear. No, no, no. 0:45:42.780 --> 0:45:43.950 I took a shower today. 0:45:45.390 --> 0:45:46.350 We don't. Proof of that. 0:45:46.830 --> 0:45:48.530 I put off a shower post. 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:51.750 Sherpa dirt. 0:45:51.750 --> 0:45:52.710 Bus back to. 0:45:53.610 --> 0:45:54.120 Turkey. 0:45:54.540 --> 0:45:57.660 So time is running out to get your bad crypto 0:45:57.660 --> 0:46:01.860 nifty club membership if you want the Brad Mill's NFT. 0:46:02.130 --> 0:46:07.170 Hopefully you heard that Episode number 651 that was released 0:46:07.170 --> 0:46:10.650 here just a few days ago and and got your 0:46:10.650 --> 0:46:14.640 big crypto NFT membership card. This is the NFT that 0:46:14.640 --> 0:46:17.220 we're getting ready to release. Of course, you can't hear 0:46:17.219 --> 0:46:20.279 it right now, but it is a two minute video NFT. 0:46:20.489 --> 0:46:24.840 It is a bonus. Add on to the episode exclusively 0:46:24.840 --> 0:46:27.529 for those of you in the Bad Crypto Nifty Club, 0:46:27.540 --> 0:46:30.640 you're going to get this airdropped to you for free. 0:46:30.719 --> 0:46:33.120 How do you get it? Well, real easy. You need 0:46:33.120 --> 0:46:37.440 to go to the bad crypto podcast site on Uncut 0:46:37.440 --> 0:46:42.180 Dot FM. It's bad crypto dot, Uncut dot FM and 0:46:42.180 --> 0:46:47.190 then you're going to go into the the NFTS. And 0:46:47.190 --> 0:46:49.469 I believe right down here at the bottom, that's the 0:46:49.469 --> 0:46:51.780 one you want. You want the bad crypto nifty club 0:46:52.230 --> 0:46:57.779 .002 wrapped. That's all it is. You could pay with ether. 0:46:57.780 --> 0:46:59.230 You can even pay with a credit card if you want. 0:46:59.250 --> 0:47:01.859 Once you've got this, you're in the club and the 0:47:01.860 --> 0:47:04.440 free airdrops that we send go to people who are 0:47:04.440 --> 0:47:07.570 holding these. So what's your excuse? Go get it there. Rare. 0:47:07.590 --> 0:47:09.860 It says so right here on the screen. I love. 0:47:09.870 --> 0:47:11.790 It. So you can check it out. Hey, what about this? 0:47:12.060 --> 0:47:14.880 We haven't talked about doing an NFT for. For Brendan Eich. 0:47:15.090 --> 0:47:18.270 What if we take the blockchain heroes and make a 0:47:18.270 --> 0:47:21.989 brand new version of it and create a new courage 0:47:22.469 --> 0:47:24.890 only for the uncut folks? 0:47:24.900 --> 0:47:28.780 Just just on Polygon? I like that. I like that. Now, 0:47:28.800 --> 0:47:31.830 you got two reasons to get your bad crypto nifty 0:47:31.830 --> 0:47:36.359 club membership. We're going to create another variation of courage 0:47:36.930 --> 0:47:39.630 Blockchain hero and it will be airdrop. This will be 0:47:39.630 --> 0:47:42.390 our first. Will this be the first polygon? No. We 0:47:42.390 --> 0:47:46.589 worked with Limp and did a few exclusive variations on 0:47:46.590 --> 0:47:48.989 their platform, but this will be the first one for 0:47:48.989 --> 0:47:50.160 the bank. Crypto nifty one. 0:47:50.670 --> 0:47:53.130 Yeah. And then all those 60 million people over on 0:47:53.130 --> 0:47:56.520 Braid better get one because, well, all 60 million couldn't 0:47:56.550 --> 0:48:00.300 because there's not that many of those bad crypto clubs available. 0:48:00.300 --> 0:48:02.370 But thanks for tuning in. I'm really glad you tuned in. 0:48:02.670 --> 0:48:05.940 And you know, Brendan is amazing. I'm really pleased that 0:48:05.940 --> 0:48:06.990 we had to have something hacked. 0:48:07.590 --> 0:48:11.730 Absolutely. And we appreciate you guys. Thanks for bearing with us. 0:48:11.760 --> 0:48:17.440 Your favorite defi defi, your sherpa in Dafa. I like that. 0:48:17.700 --> 0:48:20.880 I like those names. Make sure you go review five 0:48:20.880 --> 0:48:23.310 stars is preferred. And we also we have a bunch 0:48:23.310 --> 0:48:25.919 of voicemails that we're going to be playing for you 0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:28.060 or maybe we played on the last episode of Remember 0:48:28.060 --> 0:48:31.860 When We Use Them because we recorded this interview before 0:48:32.040 --> 0:48:35.040 Monday's news shows. We want the news to be current 0:48:35.370 --> 0:48:36.960 in a we're out of order so that we can 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:39.779 be in order. And if that makes any sense to 0:48:39.780 --> 0:48:42.510 you that you are already following our instructions. 0:49:00.620 --> 0:49:01.339 Who's bad? 0:49:03.130 --> 0:49:06.760 The Bad Crypto podcast is a production of Bad Crypto LLC. 0:49:06.940 --> 0:49:09.670 The content of the show, the videos and the website 0:49:09.670 --> 0:49:13.779 is provided for educational, informational and entertainment purposes only. It's 0:49:13.780 --> 0:49:17.710 not intended to be and does not constitute financial investment 0:49:17.710 --> 0:49:20.739 or trading advice of any kind. You shouldn't make any 0:49:20.739 --> 0:49:24.400 decisions as to finances, investing, trading or anything else based 0:49:24.400 --> 0:49:28.930 on this information without undertaking independent due diligence in consultation 0:49:28.930 --> 0:49:32.350 with a professional financial advisor. Please understand that the trading 0:49:32.350 --> 0:49:37.390 of Bitcoins and alternative cryptocurrencies have potential risks involved. Anyone 0:49:37.390 --> 0:49:39.820 wishing to invest in any of the currencies or tokens 0:49:39.820 --> 0:49:43.150 mentioned on this podcast should first seek their own independent 0:49:43.150 --> 0:49:45.010 professional financial advisor.