WEBVTT - Is ALL DeFi Bullsh*t? with Brad Mills 0:00:00.090 --> 0:00:03.239 If you'd been paying attention to the guest on today's show, 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.210 you may have gotten out of Luna or Celsius before 0:00:06.210 --> 0:00:09.510 they came crumbling down his take on Defi. Back on 0:00:09.510 --> 0:00:13.020 our April show got our attention. And with the aftershocks 0:00:13.020 --> 0:00:16.590 of tech still rumbling through the crypto and financial world, 0:00:16.710 --> 0:00:19.079 we thought we'd invite him back to go deeper down 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.110 the rabbit hole. What's the next domino to fall and 0:00:22.110 --> 0:00:25.650 how can you avoid getting burnt? We'll discuss with Brad 0:00:25.650 --> 0:00:32.010 Mills today on our is all defi B.S. episode number 651. 0:00:33.700 --> 0:00:35.170 Of the bad crypto podcasts. 0:00:35.210 --> 0:00:53.460 Five, four, three. How are there all those workers whose bad? I. 0:01:03.910 --> 0:01:09.370 Is anything even real anymore? I don't know. It's hard 0:01:09.370 --> 0:01:11.350 to tell. You probably better listen to this podcast to 0:01:11.350 --> 0:01:14.110 see if what you think you know is even right 0:01:14.110 --> 0:01:17.290 at all. Is all defi doomed? Is it bullshit? What? 0:01:17.650 --> 0:01:20.320 How do we even know this guy in the past 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.160 has called several of them pretty correctly called Luna. How 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.910 you got there? He said he probably better get out Celsius. Hey, 0:01:27.910 --> 0:01:31.350 you probably after is looking like a bunch of bullshit. Hmm. 0:01:32.050 --> 0:01:32.470 We had to. 0:01:32.470 --> 0:01:35.950 Invite them back. Yeah, we had to bring him back again. He's. 0:01:35.950 --> 0:01:38.860 He's got a lot of content. Many words were excited 0:01:38.860 --> 0:01:42.850 to talk about him. And we've got a bonus segment 0:01:42.850 --> 0:01:45.190 that is not in the show where he's going to 0:01:45.190 --> 0:01:48.670 give his take on Nfts. We want to give that NFT. 0:01:48.670 --> 0:01:50.800 We want to give that clip to you in the 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.070 form of an NFT for free. We'll tell you how 0:01:54.070 --> 0:01:56.890 you can get it here. After the interview, by the way. 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.650 Welcome to the Bad Crypto podcast. I'm Joel Klein. Thank you. 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.200 Thank you, Joel. I was excited to show up today. 0:02:02.710 --> 0:02:05.320 Yeah, it's good. It's good that you're here. 0:02:05.710 --> 0:02:08.650 I'm here. You're here. And if you don't have the 0:02:08.650 --> 0:02:11.380 nifty club right there, you need to go do it. 0:02:11.410 --> 0:02:15.910 You can go to bad crypto dot uncut dot FM 0:02:16.210 --> 0:02:20.230 and get one. It's like .002 if it's very low, 0:02:21.340 --> 0:02:23.260 because we want to just, you know, we didn't want 0:02:23.260 --> 0:02:25.299 the boss to grab a bunch because that's how they roll. 0:02:25.310 --> 0:02:27.669 And we're not trying to have fake our numbers in anything. 0:02:27.900 --> 0:02:29.450 We're going to do our drop with the drop in 0:02:29.470 --> 0:02:31.540 and we're going to start dropping even more cool things 0:02:31.540 --> 0:02:32.590 in there. So you guys. 0:02:32.620 --> 0:02:34.750 We've dropped three so far, and I guess we'll tell 0:02:34.750 --> 0:02:37.420 you about it now instead of after the interview. But 0:02:37.419 --> 0:02:41.110 you need this bad crypto nifty club membership. Go ahead 0:02:41.110 --> 0:02:43.720 and grab yours and you're going to need to have 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:48.669 this one. Let's see the this episode is dropping on, 0:02:48.669 --> 0:02:52.720 I believe, Sunday the 20th. So you need to have 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.780 one of these in your wallet by Thanksgiving Day. And 0:02:55.780 --> 0:02:58.720 then and then once you've got it, you're entitled to 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:00.670 all the free drops that we give as well as 0:03:00.669 --> 0:03:04.720 other benefits. So far, there have been three drops. Exclusive Nfts. 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:08.760 And we want to give you the Brad Mill's bonus NFT. 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.220 His thoughts on NFT is it's a two minute video 0:03:12.220 --> 0:03:16.150 clip NFT exclusive for you guys. But let's find out 0:03:16.150 --> 0:03:20.320 what Brad thinks about everything. But NFT is now in 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:29.230 this exclusive interview with him. This is a really rare moment. 0:03:29.350 --> 0:03:36.070 I think our guest today is the fastest repeat guest 0:03:36.490 --> 0:03:40.600 we've ever had on this show. Travis, it was May 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:45.460 15th of this year that we had. Brad Mill's on 0:03:45.460 --> 0:03:51.610 to talk about Stablecoin lunacy, which would have been episode number. 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:56.380 Let me consult my notes here. Episode number 608. But 0:03:56.380 --> 0:04:01.180 there's been so much happening in the crypto world, and 0:04:01.900 --> 0:04:04.660 I'm going to owe Brad a personal thank you here 0:04:04.660 --> 0:04:06.520 in a moment. But first I want to welcome him 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.620 back to Bat Crypto. How are you doing, man? 0:04:09.820 --> 0:04:12.839 I'm doing all right. Now, as you know, I've got 0:04:12.860 --> 0:04:16.750 heavy bags of Bitcoin that I'm carrying through the mountain 0:04:16.990 --> 0:04:20.140 in the storm, but I'm doing all right. Otherwise I 0:04:20.140 --> 0:04:24.310 expected this. So I'm not surprised by sudden drops in 0:04:24.310 --> 0:04:26.170 my net worth. I was. I was. I was waiting 0:04:26.170 --> 0:04:28.090 for it. Just never happy to see it happen, but 0:04:28.900 --> 0:04:31.570 sucks for all the other people that are, you know, 0:04:31.570 --> 0:04:35.260 not heeding warnings. And we're stuck in FDX and Celsius 0:04:35.260 --> 0:04:37.600 and stuff like that. But yeah, thanks for bringing me back. 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:41.529 Well, let me start with the the. Thank you. It 0:04:41.529 --> 0:04:44.860 was having you on the show. I hardly lost anything 0:04:44.860 --> 0:04:47.020 with USD or low, and I just had little trace 0:04:47.020 --> 0:04:50.140 amounts in there. I know a lot of people really 0:04:50.140 --> 0:04:52.450 got hurt, but when you were on the show, we 0:04:52.450 --> 0:04:56.830 talked about Celsius and some other defi platforms and you 0:04:56.830 --> 0:05:00.130 raise the red flag over Celsius. And I was like, 0:05:00.130 --> 0:05:02.020 You know what? I'm going to listen to this guy. 0:05:02.020 --> 0:05:05.260 And I pulled a substantial amount of money out of 0:05:05.260 --> 0:05:07.990 stablecoin that I hand Celsius. I think now my account 0:05:07.990 --> 0:05:11.950 has maybe 25, $30 left in it, and it was 0:05:11.950 --> 0:05:17.190 two weeks before they locked it down. So. Dom All right. 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:19.779 So that's good to hear. I'm glad I helped a 0:05:19.779 --> 0:05:22.120 couple of people, man. That's good to hear that. That 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.909 you listen, that was a bunch of people were just 0:05:24.910 --> 0:05:28.289 kind of. Then you're just a maxy. You just don't 0:05:28.290 --> 0:05:31.620 like anything about Bitcoin and you're just flooding. So, I mean, 0:05:31.770 --> 0:05:35.760 that's what happens with tribalism. So people get kind of convinced, 0:05:35.820 --> 0:05:38.310 you know, that the guy that founded the project is 0:05:38.580 --> 0:05:41.729 good and they would never scam and but yeah, no, 0:05:41.730 --> 0:05:43.979 thanks for that. That means a lot that I helped 0:05:43.980 --> 0:05:45.870 you and I got a couple of texts from friends 0:05:45.870 --> 0:05:47.640 as well that, you know, one of my friends had 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.849 a think it was he said he had put $1,000,000 0:05:50.850 --> 0:05:55.320 into Celsius. He's an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur friend of mine 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.510 that it's sold his business. And I was like, Dude, 0:05:57.510 --> 0:06:00.600 get that out. Like it's not worth the risk. And 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.540 he did. He took it out, thankfully. And another friend 0:06:03.540 --> 0:06:06.960 who's a a Bitcoin kind of like he's like a 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:11.680 fund manager type of guy for $10 million in Celsius. And, 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.390 and I mean, that's that's a significant amount of money, right? 0:06:15.390 --> 0:06:18.239 So he was initially skeptical to take it out. He 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.779 was saying things like, well, the Ontario or the Quebec 0:06:21.779 --> 0:06:24.810 pension fund did due diligence on Celsius. They wouldn't have 0:06:24.810 --> 0:06:28.410 invested institutional money if this wasn't a safe platform. And 0:06:28.410 --> 0:06:31.290 I was just thinking, man, like, you know, Bernie Madoff 0:06:31.290 --> 0:06:35.700 was the chairman of Nasdaq for many years. He ran 0:06:35.700 --> 0:06:39.240 a successful Ponzi scheme. Institutional investors are just as dumb 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:41.040 as the rest of us when it comes to FOMO. 0:06:41.339 --> 0:06:45.030 They just that the greed and the the the relationship 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.390 kind of clout you want to be able to get 0:06:48.390 --> 0:06:50.760 to associate with somebody that's on fire and on a 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:56.340 rocket ship. It clouds judgment. And thankfully, after a little 0:06:56.339 --> 0:06:58.760 bit of cajoling me and a couple of friends and 0:06:58.830 --> 0:07:02.200 convincing him he took his money off, too. So it's 0:07:02.310 --> 0:07:05.760 we've definitely heard stories of people that we've helped the 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.750 Bitcoin Maxis have helped people get out. So I'm glad 0:07:09.750 --> 0:07:11.520 that you were able to get out. You weren't hurt 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:11.970 by that. 0:07:12.330 --> 0:07:14.670 Look at all the millions that you have saved people. 0:07:14.670 --> 0:07:17.280 I mean, that's great, right in itself. So we know 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.520 FCX is a big W what what FCX what just 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.760 went on. We've talked about it. We saw that it happened. 0:07:24.150 --> 0:07:26.280 I don't know how deep we want to go in 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.620 that right now. What do we want to do we 0:07:28.620 --> 0:07:31.040 want to go into and talk about or you know, 0:07:31.050 --> 0:07:31.470 I think we. 0:07:31.470 --> 0:07:34.860 Could talk a little bit about it. But you you 0:07:34.860 --> 0:07:38.070 warned about this as well, right? When when were you 0:07:38.070 --> 0:07:39.810 talking about FCX? 0:07:39.810 --> 0:07:40.530 And yeah, I mean. 0:07:40.710 --> 0:07:41.790 The red flag. 0:07:42.330 --> 0:07:46.740 Back back in January when I started first paying attention 0:07:46.740 --> 0:07:53.310 to the large growth in defi Ponzi schemes like Ohm Protocol, 0:07:53.310 --> 0:07:57.600 Wonderland Protocol, Terra Luna. I started to realize that this 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.020 massive bubble was going to blow up the same as 0:08:00.020 --> 0:08:03.930 that as other bubbles and Ponzi in the traditional markets 0:08:03.930 --> 0:08:07.020 have before, because they've basically just rebuilt everything that was 0:08:07.020 --> 0:08:12.600 toxic and over leveraged nonsense from the traditional markets in crypto. 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:14.310 And they called it innovation and they put it on 0:08:14.310 --> 0:08:18.240 a blockchain and called it Defi. Well, it doesn't take 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.540 like a lot of digging to start to realize it's unsustainable, 0:08:21.780 --> 0:08:25.890 like to be able to get that kind of yield, ten, 20% 0:08:25.890 --> 0:08:28.740 yield when we're at like historically low interest rates in 0:08:28.740 --> 0:08:33.030 traditional markets, something risky, extremely risky is going on there. 0:08:33.570 --> 0:08:36.030 And every time that there was a huge hack like 0:08:36.570 --> 0:08:39.780 the Wormhole Bridge got hacked or there was a problem 0:08:39.780 --> 0:08:45.290 with the Luna, the Luna, you know, exit door, the 0:08:45.300 --> 0:08:47.400 protocol only had a certain amount of liquidity for you 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.910 to get out to to burn the USD tokens and 0:08:50.910 --> 0:08:52.920 turn it back into Luna and then sell the Luna 0:08:53.070 --> 0:08:55.860 like there's only so much liquidity. And as these things 0:08:55.860 --> 0:09:00.709 grow so big, they just become unsustainable. And FTI actually 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:05.820 Alameda through your capital jump, which is another one that 0:09:05.820 --> 0:09:07.890 still hasn't gone down yet, that's at risk of it. 0:09:08.250 --> 0:09:11.579 And a bunch of other big huge VC firms like 0:09:11.850 --> 0:09:16.290 Paradigm and A16z and all these like bellwether VC brands. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:18.360 I mean, they're all kind of doing all this to 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.670 Jenner and stuff and bailing out all these hacks that 0:09:20.670 --> 0:09:25.559 always happen in Defi and trying to provide liquidity into 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:30.030 the system like a central bank does. And we saw 0:09:30.059 --> 0:09:32.309 this at the turn of the century in the 1920s 0:09:32.309 --> 0:09:35.100 when the stock market sort of when the big panic happened, 0:09:35.100 --> 0:09:37.290 the stock market crash, there was a lot of risky 0:09:37.290 --> 0:09:42.540 overleverage nonsense happening and JPMorgan would go around and like 0:09:42.540 --> 0:09:47.219 actually give cash to pensions and insurance funds and banks 0:09:47.220 --> 0:09:50.370 to try to keep the wheels greased so that, you know, 0:09:50.370 --> 0:09:53.640 you don't see liquidity lock ups because when you see 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.679 the liquidity lock up. That's when you run into big 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.920 problems because people start to panic and they have fear 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:02.360 and then they start to pull their money out and 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.550 that's when you get a run on the bank. So 0:10:04.550 --> 0:10:09.620 you have this like huge growth of people just thinking 0:10:09.620 --> 0:10:11.810 they're so smart and they're investing all their money, they're 0:10:11.809 --> 0:10:14.420 making tons of money, and then a bunch of retail 0:10:14.420 --> 0:10:16.430 gets sucked in because they see their they see the 0:10:16.429 --> 0:10:18.800 FOMO of all these returns that everybody else are making. 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.410 So the retail players come in, they're not as sophisticated. 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:26.179 And then there's all this like reputation sort of osmosis 0:10:26.179 --> 0:10:29.480 that happens where somebody wants to invest in this superstar 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.040 because they want to be associated with them and they 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.040 don't necessarily do any due diligence. So they don't they 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.439 don't they say like, oh, well, so-and-so is in, so 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.420 I don't need to do my due diligence. You know, 0:10:38.420 --> 0:10:40.729 A16z is and I don't need to do my due diligence. 0:10:40.740 --> 0:10:42.440 They already did it. We're just going to we're just 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.230 going to jump into this rocket ship. So then you 0:10:45.230 --> 0:10:47.060 get into this situation where it just grows too big 0:10:47.059 --> 0:10:51.530 and it's all unsustainable. So back in January, you started 0:10:51.530 --> 0:10:55.250 to see like these these guys that were really trying 0:10:55.250 --> 0:10:57.530 to act like the central bankers of all this defi 0:10:57.530 --> 0:11:00.740 and crypto lending and yield farming and all that stuff, 0:11:01.220 --> 0:11:03.619 bailing out to the tune of hundreds of millions of 0:11:03.620 --> 0:11:07.100 dollars of well, like every month Jump Capital had to 0:11:07.100 --> 0:11:13.610 bail out the wormhole bridge for 300 million FDX Alameda 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.050 3 hours capital like all these guys were each kind 0:11:18.050 --> 0:11:20.720 of doing these bailouts and it was hundreds of millions 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:24.199 of dollars every time it was happening. And even in 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.120 the case of Luna, it was to the tune of, 0:11:26.540 --> 0:11:28.580 I think, two or 3 billion, wasn't it, that they 0:11:28.580 --> 0:11:31.160 announced they were going to put up to. Yes. For 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:31.850 the LFG. 0:11:32.270 --> 0:11:34.640 Yeah. So I got I got a question around that though. 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.490 So would you say that pretty much all defi at 0:11:37.490 --> 0:11:40.219 this point is a scam? Because when I first saw Defi, 0:11:40.220 --> 0:11:42.620 I was like, do I just not understand this or 0:11:42.620 --> 0:11:45.469 does this kind of seem like a Ponzi? They're literally 0:11:45.470 --> 0:11:49.550 printing money from nowhere. And so I was always like, 0:11:49.550 --> 0:11:51.319 What the hell's the deal on that? I never fully 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.600 got it. I didn't think unless it just seems like 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:54.530 it's maybe a scam. 0:11:56.059 --> 0:12:01.790 Well, I do believe that it's built on unethical foundation, 0:12:02.210 --> 0:12:05.920 an unethical foundation, and like a sort of a Griffey 0:12:07.940 --> 0:12:12.890 insider game. Whale whale game that most of crypto is 0:12:12.890 --> 0:12:17.750 actually where they they see the reason why jump and 0:12:17.750 --> 0:12:21.440 a16z and all these folks will bail out defi and 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:26.300 crypto companies and stuff because they own massive bags of 0:12:26.300 --> 0:12:29.780 tokens and they are also providing liquidity and making the 0:12:29.780 --> 0:12:34.430 markets and they can, they can use this meteoric success 0:12:34.429 --> 0:12:38.479 of the irrational idea that you can just print a 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.100 token and then market make it on your exchange or 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.020 put in a hundred or $200 million of liquidity in 0:12:45.020 --> 0:12:48.800 a defi protocol and say that that's valuable. I mean, 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:53.720 SBF himself described this back in April, May as basically 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.630 a black box Ponzi scam when he was talking to 0:12:56.630 --> 0:13:01.130 Joe Weisenthal on an odd lot. And I mean, they 0:13:01.130 --> 0:13:03.470 were very surprised that he acknowledged that like what they 0:13:03.470 --> 0:13:06.530 had built was basically Ponzi scams. And SBF at the 0:13:06.530 --> 0:13:11.450 time said something critical. He said, If the world decides 0:13:11.450 --> 0:13:16.580 that what we did was okay, then you guys are wrong, 0:13:17.090 --> 0:13:19.580 you know, by saying by judging that this is not 0:13:19.580 --> 0:13:21.980 ethical and it's not right and it's illegal and it's 0:13:21.980 --> 0:13:24.559 a Ponzi scheme, but if the world decides in a 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.970 coordinated way that what we did was wrong, then we're 0:13:28.970 --> 0:13:31.800 going to be in trouble. So so they were all 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:33.950 of these guys were clearly aware that what they were doing, 0:13:33.950 --> 0:13:39.650 this whole foundation of defi yield farming daos nft, like 0:13:39.650 --> 0:13:44.660 all this stuff that they use to pump coins and 0:13:45.490 --> 0:13:48.679 just call it web3, it's no different than the last 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.920 cycle that we all saw happen, which is ICOs and 0:13:52.610 --> 0:13:55.280 master node coins giving you yield and all this stuff. 0:13:55.610 --> 0:13:58.010 It got disproven. The SEC came out and said that 0:13:58.010 --> 0:14:01.610 this is not in compliance, but the idea that you 0:14:01.610 --> 0:14:04.400 could just do it with smart contracts, you know, instead 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.699 of people and companies issuing tokens, it's like, oh, a 0:14:07.700 --> 0:14:10.760 smart contract is issuing the tokens, but we're just going 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:14.850 to preeminent with our huge billion dollars of liquidity that 0:14:14.870 --> 0:14:17.660 we just plop into the defi protocol. So the form 0:14:17.660 --> 0:14:23.000 of defi that got built on crypto is extremely risky, 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:28.550 mostly unethical grift that just gets VCs and insiders rich 0:14:28.550 --> 0:14:30.290 because they're the ones that preeminent and they're the ones 0:14:30.290 --> 0:14:32.960 that have the massive pools of liquidity to put in 0:14:33.230 --> 0:14:35.330 to get all the tokens out. And then what does. 0:14:35.330 --> 0:14:38.540 This mean then too, to Ethereum? What do you you know, 0:14:38.540 --> 0:14:41.480 what what are your thoughts on Vitalik and Ethereum and 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.020 the whole RC 20 and all of the protocols? I 0:14:45.020 --> 0:14:47.180 know what you think about NFT. She told us about 0:14:47.180 --> 0:14:49.460 that last time, but let's just go right to the, 0:14:49.790 --> 0:14:51.350 you know, the root of it. 0:14:51.850 --> 0:14:54.860 Well, so, so to, to kind of like answer the 0:14:54.860 --> 0:14:57.510 first question. I never fully got to the end of 0:14:57.510 --> 0:15:00.510 like it is all related and it's kind of confusing. 0:15:00.510 --> 0:15:01.800 You got to you got to draw one of those 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:03.960 like conspiracy maps out on the board and like, put 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.840 all the pins together to sort of connect this narrative 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:11.070 in this logic. Summing it up, you asked, like, was 0:15:11.070 --> 0:15:13.650 it obvious that FDX was going to come down? And 0:15:13.650 --> 0:15:16.950 I described the the foundation that this whole thing was 0:15:16.950 --> 0:15:22.470 built on and how that enabled extreme risk taking and 0:15:22.470 --> 0:15:25.530 suspension of logic to be able to value something like 0:15:25.530 --> 0:15:28.770 an FTT token and in the multimillions tens of billions 0:15:28.770 --> 0:15:32.280 of of range. And there's lots of examples of that. 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.010 It's not just FTT token, there's lots of tokens that 0:15:35.010 --> 0:15:38.190 are just. Michael Saylor's been calling them air tokens. You know, 0:15:38.190 --> 0:15:41.220 they're just, they're just full of hot air. And it 0:15:41.220 --> 0:15:44.910 really is kind of insidious because the VCs hold bags 0:15:44.910 --> 0:15:47.910 of it. The VCs are the liquidity pool providers, and 0:15:47.910 --> 0:15:50.580 the traders work with the VCs to do market making 0:15:50.580 --> 0:15:52.530 and mark the price up and keep the price as high. 0:15:53.420 --> 0:15:56.860 So they do that and then they borrow against the tokens. 0:15:56.870 --> 0:16:00.380 That's the worst part. They borrow against them and use 0:16:00.380 --> 0:16:03.170 them as collateral, borrow against them, and then go pump 0:16:03.590 --> 0:16:06.560 more stuff in Defi and crypto. They just go. 0:16:06.580 --> 0:16:10.460 I have to follow up to that because you're mentioning 0:16:10.460 --> 0:16:14.300 that there's you know, there's others. You know, let's go 0:16:14.300 --> 0:16:17.150 ahead issue the warning, in your opinion, as we look 0:16:17.150 --> 0:16:21.290 at Defi here in Coingecko, you know which of these 0:16:21.290 --> 0:16:23.960 coins have the biggest red flag for you. 0:16:25.250 --> 0:16:30.330 So. The way that I see that this contagion continuing 0:16:30.330 --> 0:16:35.270 to play out is not necessarily. A specific coin right 0:16:35.270 --> 0:16:38.880 now that's going to go down. I think if anybody 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.960 lived through the bear market of 2018 and 2019 and 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:48.330 maybe even participated in the soft market where people in 2017, 0:16:48.330 --> 0:16:52.530 the soft market was like super hot, like Telegram ICO, 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:57.240 for example, was this really exclusive ICO that, you know, 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.330 they had raised a couple billion dollars from private investors 0:17:00.630 --> 0:17:03.330 and a lot of the crypto funds and crypto traders 0:17:03.330 --> 0:17:05.070 were just really wanted to get a piece of the 0:17:05.070 --> 0:17:06.210 telegram ICO. 0:17:06.410 --> 0:17:09.030 I would also say this is that in that time 0:17:09.300 --> 0:17:11.960 there's not a lot you could do with your theory, right? 0:17:12.180 --> 0:17:13.830 If you had a theory of what you could do 0:17:13.830 --> 0:17:15.780 with it, why you could trade it and use it 0:17:15.780 --> 0:17:19.290 to buy some things, but it was mostly participate in ICOs. 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.030 There wasn't a whole lot of stuff you could do 0:17:21.030 --> 0:17:23.250 with your theory. And yet in 2017, 18. 0:17:23.609 --> 0:17:27.090 Well, so. So we're back. We're in that we're in 0:17:27.090 --> 0:17:32.330 that cycle where Etherium was. Pumped from what was a 0:17:32.330 --> 0:17:37.220 $10 to 1400 dollars or something like that in 2017. 0:17:38.060 --> 0:17:41.629 January 2018 was the peak, and that's based on the 0:17:41.630 --> 0:17:46.130 back of the whole dapp. NFT CryptoKitties was the first one, 0:17:46.130 --> 0:17:50.300 but Dapps and Nfts and ICOs, that was really what 0:17:50.300 --> 0:17:53.419 drove a lot of FOMO into the Ethereum token because 0:17:53.420 --> 0:17:55.520 you had to go buy Ethereum to go buy an 0:17:55.520 --> 0:18:01.070 ICO or to use, you know, CryptoKitties. And that was 0:18:01.130 --> 0:18:04.220 really what drove the demand for Etherium along with just 0:18:04.220 --> 0:18:08.570 general crypto FOMO, because when Bitcoin goes up, you have this, 0:18:08.780 --> 0:18:12.500 this like rising tides thing because the regulators hadn't given 0:18:12.500 --> 0:18:16.250 clear guidance as to what these things all are. So 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.609 in 2017, there was no clear guidance that like maybe 0:18:19.609 --> 0:18:21.920 a theory and was a security and there was risk there. 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.770 Maybe Ripple's a security, maybe 90% of the stuff is 0:18:24.770 --> 0:18:28.580 securities and they shouldn't be traded on regulated exchanges. There 0:18:28.580 --> 0:18:33.760 was no clear guidance yet. So the thing went crazy. 0:18:34.650 --> 0:18:38.550 And then what happened through 2018 and 2019. People started 0:18:38.550 --> 0:18:40.859 to reel while the SEC started coming out with clear 0:18:40.859 --> 0:18:44.459 guidance that you couldn't do unregistered securities offerings. They announced 0:18:44.460 --> 0:18:47.540 that the Dow was a security, the original Dow was 0:18:47.550 --> 0:18:51.330 a security, and the original Ethereum ICO was the securities offering. 0:18:51.810 --> 0:18:54.810 They didn't make any specific concrete statements as to whether 0:18:54.810 --> 0:18:58.590 or not it was a security currently, but they clearly 0:18:58.590 --> 0:19:01.800 said that if you're doing an unregistered ICO thing, you're 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:06.630 not in compliance with securities laws and that the original 0:19:06.630 --> 0:19:09.180 sale of Ethereum was a security and then Bitcoin was 0:19:09.180 --> 0:19:11.820 not because it wasn't sold to anybody. So bitcoin's the 0:19:11.820 --> 0:19:15.119 only sort of real decentralized property that exists in the 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:19.290 crypto space. And so that's where you were in 2017 0:19:19.290 --> 0:19:22.260 and 2018 and 19 after the SEC came out with 0:19:22.260 --> 0:19:25.200 their statements. It took a good year for people to realize, 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:28.740 wait a second, this market's done like Ethereum's going down 0:19:28.950 --> 0:19:31.850 for a long time. Crypto is just going to go cratered. 0:19:31.859 --> 0:19:34.679 It's either going to go -95% or to zero in 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:38.280 most cases, because people that had all this FOMO to 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.619 try to get SAFT that they had missed in the 0:19:40.619 --> 0:19:44.669 bull run. They were buying things still at about this time, 0:19:44.670 --> 0:19:49.080 say October, November 2018, which is about exactly where we 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:50.970 are in the timeline of this bear market, where at 0:19:50.970 --> 0:19:54.300 October we're in November 2022, which is very much the 0:19:54.300 --> 0:20:00.090 same as November 2018. People started realizing, Wait a second, 0:20:00.090 --> 0:20:03.780 maybe I shouldn't be buying softs for these hot ICOs 0:20:03.780 --> 0:20:06.270 that I couldn't afford or couldn't get access to in 0:20:06.270 --> 0:20:12.240 2017 at a at a 50% 60% discount. Maybe I'm 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:14.310 actually burning my money. And what I should be doing 0:20:14.310 --> 0:20:18.359 is selling everything and going into Bitcoin or just taking 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.729 my money back. If you're not convicted enough on Bitcoin 0:20:20.730 --> 0:20:22.920 to hold it like just, just go back into dollars 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:26.730 and leave because everybody had the hope them and the 0:20:26.730 --> 0:20:29.060 fuel of all that excitement and all the money that 0:20:29.100 --> 0:20:31.379 they were making in the in the bubble. And they 0:20:31.380 --> 0:20:35.669 never reconciled it until probably mid, you know, like early 2019, 0:20:35.670 --> 0:20:39.420 people started realizing like the SEC is not backing down 0:20:39.420 --> 0:20:43.530 from all these non-compliant ICOs and all this stuff is way, 0:20:43.619 --> 0:20:47.310 way overvalued. So all these all these people that that 0:20:47.310 --> 0:20:50.520 used to buy ICOs and like, you know, there was 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.240 Dexs back then. Ether Delta was a popular dex. Bancor 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.510 was a popular dex. People were using ether. There was 0:20:57.510 --> 0:21:00.010 lots of pairs you could trade against. There was a 0:21:00.030 --> 0:21:03.450 kyber network and zero protocol. Like there was a whole 0:21:03.450 --> 0:21:06.120 bunch of defi stuff that was built back then and 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.250 people were using these for it, but it still didn't 0:21:08.250 --> 0:21:12.659 prevent the absolute carnage in the markets. In 2019, as 0:21:12.660 --> 0:21:14.850 people started to realize that all this stuff was not 0:21:14.850 --> 0:21:18.119 in compliance and, you know, it was like a liquidity 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.090 squeeze and everybody just wanted liquidity. That's what the story 0:21:21.090 --> 0:21:24.959 of 2009 was. Everybody just wanted liquidity. So the bid 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:27.780 for SAFT just completely disappeared. There was a bunch of 0:21:27.780 --> 0:21:29.970 funds that went bankrupt and then a bunch of saft 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:32.700 got dumped onto the market and people were just realizing, Wait, 0:21:32.700 --> 0:21:35.010 everybody's trying to get their money back. A bunch of 0:21:35.010 --> 0:21:37.560 these ICO projects were just selling their ease to get 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.359 back the dollars because the price of ether's cratering. It 0:21:40.380 --> 0:21:43.470 was down like 60% or 70%. So it was a 0:21:43.470 --> 0:21:46.649 game of chicken where the ICOs that had raised hundreds 0:21:46.650 --> 0:21:49.590 of millions of dollars realized we were going to have 0:21:49.590 --> 0:21:52.260 to fund our projects. And if it keeps going down, 0:21:52.260 --> 0:21:54.780 we need to sell. At the beginning, in the in 0:21:54.780 --> 0:21:57.780 the rah raw bull market, everybody was thinking like, I 0:21:57.780 --> 0:21:59.520 won't sell if you won't sell, because if we all 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.350 hold our ETH, it's going to go up in price 0:22:01.350 --> 0:22:03.510 and then we'll all be on the moon, right? But 0:22:03.510 --> 0:22:06.840 as the bear market grinded on slowly, it was just 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.590 nothing but like negative negative pressures and contagion from people 0:22:10.590 --> 0:22:13.410 realizing they have to sell all that ETH treasury and 0:22:13.410 --> 0:22:16.470 there's really nothing you can do with ETHE in the 0:22:16.470 --> 0:22:19.950 ICO markets. And the SEC shut down ether Delta. They 0:22:19.950 --> 0:22:21.929 find the founder and they made them shut it down. 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:24.630 So it was clear like they came out and stated 0:22:24.630 --> 0:22:27.689 like these decentralized exchanges are not in compliance because all 0:22:27.690 --> 0:22:30.270 they do is enable a run on registered securities trading. 0:22:30.869 --> 0:22:32.639 So we like we had a. 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:34.470 Going to leave that we got to leave that for 0:22:34.470 --> 0:22:37.889 the for the real criminals in in capital at. 0:22:37.950 --> 0:22:38.610 Wall Street. 0:22:38.609 --> 0:22:40.710 Yeah yeah wild street on Capitol Hill. We got to 0:22:40.710 --> 0:22:41.609 leave that to them. 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.639 Well, look, part of it is that they had you know, 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.250 and this is not it's not bad to acknowledge this 0:22:47.250 --> 0:22:50.580 like they have a monopoly, a monopoly on money laundering 0:22:50.580 --> 0:22:54.810 and crime in the traditional banking system. I mean, so 0:22:54.810 --> 0:22:57.240 you think about it like they have such a stranglehold. 0:22:57.240 --> 0:22:59.700 They have law on their side. They have the guns. Right. 0:23:00.210 --> 0:23:02.909 They are not just going to sit by and allow 0:23:03.750 --> 0:23:08.430 token creators and VCs in Silicon Valley and, you know, 0:23:08.430 --> 0:23:11.040 quant devs over in the Bahamas to be able to 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:14.310 just like take over the business and decentralize them and 0:23:14.310 --> 0:23:18.510 disintermediate Wall Street and Capitol Hill, they're not going to 0:23:18.510 --> 0:23:21.120 allow that. So obviously they're going to use the SEC, 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.000 they're going to use the the DOJ and the FATF 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:27.689 regulations and FinCEN and all these regulators that they already 0:23:27.690 --> 0:23:30.780 have put in place to to sort of keep their 0:23:30.780 --> 0:23:34.260 control of everything. They're going to use it and. So 0:23:34.260 --> 0:23:37.350 the way that, like, you know, all this was a 0:23:37.350 --> 0:23:40.590 nonsense bubble. In 2017, we realized it. We saw the 0:23:40.590 --> 0:23:44.610 flush out in 2018, 19. Everybody learned lessons. Well, what 0:23:44.609 --> 0:23:49.150 happens in 2020? You know, the Federal Reserve starts pumping 0:23:49.150 --> 0:23:53.080 trillions of dollars into the markets, keeps interest rates lower 0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:56.830 than they've ever been in history. And then and like 0:23:56.830 --> 0:24:00.159 the regulators just stand back and think that because they 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:01.869 made all these statements before, they're not going to have 0:24:01.869 --> 0:24:05.490 to deal with crypto anymore because it's all dead. Andreessen 0:24:05.490 --> 0:24:08.730 Horowitz and all these big VC firm start just basically 0:24:08.730 --> 0:24:12.420 was trading and pumping money into into this new thing 0:24:12.420 --> 0:24:16.650 that they called liquidity mining or yield farming. They created 0:24:16.650 --> 0:24:20.189 this yield farming concept in 2020. And so they piled 0:24:20.490 --> 0:24:22.439 hundreds of millions of dollars. And this is where the 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:27.120 Alameda team, like the FDX team, started to really shine 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:30.840 because they were like first in that Ponzi. And they 0:24:30.840 --> 0:24:34.320 created their own like they created the Solana blockchain with 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:37.739 serum Dex and FTT Token and a whole bunch of 0:24:37.740 --> 0:24:40.920 other ICO things that they launched, which were all defi 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:44.790 sort of like related projects to compete with Ethereum and 0:24:44.790 --> 0:24:50.610 the Andreessen Horowitz paradigm, Coinbase, Ethereum, maximalist crowd. And then 0:24:50.609 --> 0:24:53.070 there was Binance at the same time doing they launch 0:24:53.070 --> 0:24:55.350 Binance Smart Chain. They decided, Well, we want to compete 0:24:55.350 --> 0:24:58.710 with Ethereum's broken any way. The fees are $1,000 to 0:24:58.890 --> 0:25:01.740 unwrap your bitcoin. If you wanted to put bitcoin on, 0:25:01.740 --> 0:25:03.540 wrap it on Ethereum and use it for Defi and 0:25:03.540 --> 0:25:05.939 then take it off, you'd be paying $1,000 in fees 0:25:05.940 --> 0:25:09.060 just to get it off. So Solana and Binance and 0:25:09.060 --> 0:25:11.969 all these other layer ones started to compete and they 0:25:11.970 --> 0:25:15.600 all started to doing the same like infrastructure funds where 0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:19.230 they would basically put up $1,000,000,000 of capital of, of 0:25:19.230 --> 0:25:23.399 like honeypot capital to get devs to come fork things 0:25:23.430 --> 0:25:26.670 over from Ethereum and build on Solana and build on Avalanche. 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:29.340 And all you saw was really the rise of like 0:25:29.609 --> 0:25:33.960 legitimate nonsense Ponzi schemes like Ohm and Wonderland and stuff 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:38.920 like that. Which, if anybody had got caught, knows I'm sorry, 0:25:39.070 --> 0:25:41.800 but they grew to multimillions as well. I know that's 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:42.790 called rebasing. 0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:43.250 Come on. 0:25:43.270 --> 0:25:45.280 Yeah, the rebasing, the remake. 0:25:45.430 --> 0:25:47.070 We saw it. We were like, What the hell is this? 0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:48.709 I played around with this a little bit, you know, 0:25:48.730 --> 0:25:49.690 on it. And I was like, what. 0:25:49.930 --> 0:25:52.619 50,000% a y told? 0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:53.780 How is this? 0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:56.800 Yeah, totally logical. All right. 50,000. 0:25:57.220 --> 0:26:02.859 Why so low? 50,000? AP And so so we're talking about. 0:26:03.130 --> 0:26:06.700 Some of them were millions. I remember Kim she was 0:26:06.700 --> 0:26:08.800 one that was in Defi summer 2020 and at one 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:13.780 point was 1,000,000% API. But obviously there's a whole slew 0:26:13.780 --> 0:26:16.359 of like really risky nonsense stuff, but then there are 0:26:16.369 --> 0:26:19.149 some things that they actually built in Defi that were 0:26:19.150 --> 0:26:22.570 interesting from a technology perspective, like the concept of being 0:26:22.570 --> 0:26:25.929 able to do a decentralized exchange is, is a worthwhile 0:26:26.170 --> 0:26:29.919 thing to try to build the idea of uniswap. Actually, 0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:32.800 it was funny, the founder of Uniswap Hayden Adams, I 0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:36.280 think his name is, he was like pissed off that 0:26:36.670 --> 0:26:39.939 bank or raised so much money and did an ICO 0:26:39.940 --> 0:26:42.820 and launched a bank or token B and he was 0:26:42.820 --> 0:26:47.110 like this kind of Cypherpunk esque Ethereum dev. I don't 0:26:47.109 --> 0:26:49.869 think he had any perverse incentives or was a bad 0:26:49.869 --> 0:26:51.880 guy or anything like that. I kind of respected him. 0:26:52.300 --> 0:26:54.580 He was like pissed off that they had raised $100 0:26:54.580 --> 0:26:56.530 million in launched token. He's like, You don't need a 0:26:56.530 --> 0:26:59.709 token to do in a decentralized exchange. So he forked 0:26:59.710 --> 0:27:02.290 the code and he just ripped out the token and 0:27:02.290 --> 0:27:05.260 he just made uniswap And people started to use Uniswap 0:27:05.260 --> 0:27:07.660 because there was no need for a token. So that 0:27:07.660 --> 0:27:10.389 actually got people using it. Some people, I mean, and then. 0:27:10.450 --> 0:27:11.530 He created a token. 0:27:11.890 --> 0:27:14.500 And then more. Yeah, exactly. Then the VCs invested in 0:27:14.500 --> 0:27:17.950 them and they launched a token, made themselves $1,000,000,000 printing 0:27:17.950 --> 0:27:20.950 these defi tokens. It just clearly shows that there's like 0:27:20.950 --> 0:27:23.560 nothing but perverse incentives here. And like, there is some 0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:26.320 truth when people say like, Oh, well, you can use 0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:29.440 decentralized exchange, you can use all the liberal end protocols, 0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:32.850 there's there's some curve and yearn and compound and all 0:27:32.859 --> 0:27:35.230 these different like Lego blocks or whatever you want to 0:27:35.230 --> 0:27:39.520 call them, decentralized finance primitives. Yes, the technology in some 0:27:39.520 --> 0:27:44.770 cases is interesting, but that doesn't mean that it validates 0:27:44.770 --> 0:27:46.869 the idea that you can just launch a token based 0:27:46.869 --> 0:27:48.970 on that and a token has any value. And we've 0:27:48.970 --> 0:27:51.489 seen that because a year and a half ago I 0:27:51.490 --> 0:27:56.770 went on Kobe's podcast up only with Kobe Ledger, Peter 0:27:56.770 --> 0:28:00.460 McCormick and Udi Worth. WERTHEIMER And I pretty much was 0:28:00.460 --> 0:28:03.340 predicting the collapse of the defi tokens. They were all 0:28:03.340 --> 0:28:06.400 calling me like a boom or maxi saying, you know, 0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:08.379 you just don't understand it. You don't think anything but 0:28:08.380 --> 0:28:12.160 Bitcoin is valuable. And I'm saying like, no, like fundamentally, 0:28:12.609 --> 0:28:15.100 you guys are in a bubble logic. You're drinking Kool-Aid. 0:28:15.490 --> 0:28:19.420 Look at the valuation of these defi tokens. Even even 0:28:19.420 --> 0:28:22.929 if we suspend the the Bitcoin or logic and, you know, 0:28:22.930 --> 0:28:25.090 I'm just going to come at this neutral, right? And 0:28:25.090 --> 0:28:30.100 I'm going to say, okay, let's say that curve has 0:28:30.100 --> 0:28:34.840 its token and we treat curve like a decentralized stock 0:28:35.080 --> 0:28:36.669 and not in a bad way, not like it's a 0:28:36.670 --> 0:28:38.830 securities thing. The SEC has to shut it down, nothing 0:28:38.830 --> 0:28:41.920 like that. Just say that you value it like a stock. Well, 0:28:41.920 --> 0:28:44.290 like a company you value with something called the price 0:28:44.290 --> 0:28:47.020 to earnings ratio, the p e ratio. And you look 0:28:47.020 --> 0:28:48.750 at a lot of stocks in the in the in 0:28:48.850 --> 0:28:51.730 the public markets and they're way overvalued. A lot of 0:28:51.730 --> 0:28:55.030 tech stocks, a lot of tech stocks are like 20, 30, 0:28:55.030 --> 0:28:59.080 40 x p e ratios, which is just crazy. But 0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:01.630 then you look at Defi and they were like 100 x, 0:29:01.630 --> 0:29:06.280 200 x, 400 x p e ratios because these tokens, 0:29:06.940 --> 0:29:11.080 they kind of earn a like a an earn mechanic 0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:16.000 where if the protocol generates, say, $1,000,000 a day in 0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:18.940 swapping fees, then a portion of that is shared back 0:29:18.940 --> 0:29:21.910 to the curve token holders. So I mean, literally it's 0:29:21.910 --> 0:29:24.990 like a security, but it's decentralized, right? So you can't, 0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:27.190 you know, whatever. But let's just forget about that argument 0:29:27.190 --> 0:29:30.040 and say, okay, well, if you value this thing based 0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:34.240 on fundamental logic, then that chart you just showed me 0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:39.160 of all the coingecko defi index, everything is way overvalued. 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:41.710 Even still, even though we've gone through this bear market 0:29:41.710 --> 0:29:45.100 so far a year in or whatever, things are still 0:29:45.100 --> 0:29:48.970 extremely overvalued because if you look at their p e 0:29:48.970 --> 0:29:52.209 ratios or how much, how many fees they generate and 0:29:52.210 --> 0:29:56.890 pay back to the token holders, it's insanely overvalued. So 0:29:56.890 --> 0:29:58.959 I don't want to say that like Curv token is 0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:01.150 a Ponzi scheme because I want to be correct in 0:30:01.150 --> 0:30:04.990 my criticism curve. Token is not a Ponzi scheme, okay? 0:30:04.990 --> 0:30:07.930 But what they did do was build a Ponzi scheme 0:30:07.930 --> 0:30:10.660 on top of curve token, they built this thing called 0:30:10.660 --> 0:30:16.750 convex and convex is like a bribery mechanism that only 0:30:16.870 --> 0:30:21.490 the only goal of the convex protocol is to buy 0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:26.050 up as many curve tokens as possible and then allow 0:30:26.170 --> 0:30:30.760 protocol owners to bribe the convex token holders to allow 0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:33.370 them to get on to curve. I mean, it's insane. 0:30:33.370 --> 0:30:39.780 It's like. Literally. It's just a protocol for for unethical behavior. 0:30:40.500 --> 0:30:43.350 Convex is just the most insane. It's a Ponzi nomics. 0:30:43.830 --> 0:30:45.600 It's a Ponzi Anomic mechanic on top. 0:30:45.660 --> 0:30:47.240 Horror nomics. I love. 0:30:47.670 --> 0:30:50.280 It is. It's not tokenomics. It's Ponzi nomics. Yeah. 0:30:50.610 --> 0:30:52.680 So let me ask you this then. So, you know, 0:30:52.680 --> 0:30:54.960 some people are saying, okay, you have the crypto market, 0:30:54.960 --> 0:30:59.300 $1,000,000,000,000 already. Like, what is it worth that much? I mean, 0:30:59.310 --> 0:31:01.890 I got up to 11. Remember the top top two 0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:04.740 something trillion. Here we are, way less than that. 0:31:04.890 --> 0:31:06.990 Three, three and a half. I want to say three. 0:31:06.990 --> 0:31:10.050 And a half trillion. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So I look 0:31:10.050 --> 0:31:12.330 at some of these. I was like, well, what exactly 0:31:12.540 --> 0:31:16.640 does this do to be worth several billion dollars right now? Like, 0:31:16.650 --> 0:31:18.330 that was my thing with one of the tokens that 0:31:18.330 --> 0:31:20.670 I hit on. And I was like, wait a second, 0:31:20.670 --> 0:31:25.080 there's no way that economy v v the where my 0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:29.130 token is worth $2.6 billion right now. I right as 0:31:29.130 --> 0:31:31.020 I do, this is the top. You got to sell it. 0:31:31.500 --> 0:31:33.930 At least that's what that's what I try to scream 0:31:33.930 --> 0:31:37.440 from the mountains selling and and people are you're an idiot. 0:31:37.470 --> 0:31:39.840 You don't even know. And I was like, well, I 0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:41.580 know that they don't do two and a half billion 0:31:41.580 --> 0:31:43.110 dollars worth of business right now. 0:31:43.410 --> 0:31:46.230 Right? Dude? Like it was nuts at the top of 0:31:46.230 --> 0:31:47.760 the bubble. And this is why we get to the 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:51.840 place where people overlook fraud, like what's happening with Alameda 0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:54.690 and what's still happening in crypto markets with a lot 0:31:54.690 --> 0:31:57.510 of the people are just trying to deflect blame and say, Oh, 0:31:57.900 --> 0:32:01.020 Sam Bankman-fried was a fraud. He's scammed banks for fraud. 0:32:01.050 --> 0:32:03.330 He's not he's not us. We're that's not defi or 0:32:03.330 --> 0:32:06.150 crypto like don't blame us but really it's they are 0:32:06.150 --> 0:32:10.200 all in this incestuous like circlejerk of like token trading 0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:14.250 and liquidity mining like wash trading basically and pre mining 0:32:14.250 --> 0:32:18.120 and dumping on people and elevating this logic that like 0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:22.560 a JPEG monkey picture can be worth $1,000,000 or a 0:32:22.560 --> 0:32:25.560 curve token can have a 400 x p e ratio. 0:32:25.560 --> 0:32:28.230 And it makes any kind of sense sense or an. 0:32:28.380 --> 0:32:32.250 Occasional sense like, you know, a price to earnings ratio, 0:32:32.280 --> 0:32:35.760 here's the price, here's the earnings. Seriously, when you're talking 0:32:35.760 --> 0:32:38.970 about the stock market, maybe it's a ten x, maybe 0:32:39.270 --> 0:32:43.080 it's a there's a 1010 X price to earnings in crypto. 0:32:43.220 --> 0:32:44.910 It seems like something that doesn't even apply. 0:32:45.810 --> 0:32:48.030 Yeah, I mean, and this is me trying to be 0:32:48.030 --> 0:32:50.400 generous and not say like these are all scams and 0:32:50.490 --> 0:32:52.500 bitcoin's only thing you should pay attention to. I'm trying 0:32:52.500 --> 0:32:55.920 to like, take the, like, unbiased middle ground here as 0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:58.380 much as I possibly can, because I'm very much like 0:32:58.380 --> 0:33:00.720 moral and pugnacious. You know, I have this moral and 0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:03.000 pugnacious when I look at all this stuff because it's 0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:06.270 just like I know that there's some person, some VC 0:33:06.510 --> 0:33:09.810 taking advantage of retail people just printing all this money 0:33:09.810 --> 0:33:13.170 by selling people on the narrative that defies the future. 0:33:13.170 --> 0:33:15.690 And this is web3 and you're in control and blah blah, 0:33:15.690 --> 0:33:18.750 blah when it's them. The same people that ruined Web 0:33:18.750 --> 0:33:21.960 two are actually just coming in here pre mining everything 0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.570 and launching it out and then selling it to you saying, Oh, 0:33:24.570 --> 0:33:27.480 this is a read, write own, this is web3 you 0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:30.600 own it. And now it's the VCs that ruined the first, 0:33:30.600 --> 0:33:33.210 like the last version of the internet are pre mining 0:33:33.210 --> 0:33:36.840 and selling you dog shit and making you believe it's, 0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:39.660 you know, you know, drinking the Kool-Aid, believing it's the future. 0:33:40.080 --> 0:33:40.730 When I loved. 0:33:40.740 --> 0:33:43.260 I love dog shit. Dog shit is my favorite. 0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:46.740 He likes to coin. Which begs the question about the 0:33:46.740 --> 0:33:50.520 elephant in the living room. Or in this case, the donkey, 0:33:50.520 --> 0:33:56.100 even left leaning Axios, is bringing this story out right 0:33:56.100 --> 0:34:01.470 now that millions of dollars millions went from Bankman-fried. I 0:34:01.470 --> 0:34:05.940 think he was the second biggest donor to Democratic campaigns. And, 0:34:05.940 --> 0:34:09.239 you know, the midterms just happened. There are accusations out 0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:15.690 there that this was one of the biggest money laundering scandals, 0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:19.020 like this is the biggest thing since Enron to happen. 0:34:19.290 --> 0:34:21.360 You know, I don't know where you are at politically, 0:34:21.570 --> 0:34:25.290 but on its face, does it appear like there's some 0:34:25.290 --> 0:34:31.890 really shady stuff going on with with crypto, the Democratic Party, Ukraine, 0:34:31.890 --> 0:34:33.930 all of this, is it all mixed together? 0:34:34.739 --> 0:34:38.040 In some ways? I think it is. I think that 0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:43.470 there's there's two kind of. Ways to look at the 0:34:43.500 --> 0:34:48.340 way that Sam was donating money to the Democrats. There's. Let's. 0:34:49.280 --> 0:34:53.540 Assume just capitalist intent. Okay. Let's just assume he was 0:34:53.540 --> 0:34:56.690 a capitalist and he got overseas, you know, by stealing 0:34:56.690 --> 0:34:58.790 customers money and trying to trade with it. Let's just 0:34:58.790 --> 0:35:02.839 say he got overseas. Let's say he's not, you know, like, okay, 0:35:02.840 --> 0:35:05.750 let's just go on that logic path. So he's a capitalist. 0:35:05.750 --> 0:35:07.160 He's trying to make as much money as he can. 0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:09.890 He's trying to build the biggest exchange as he possibly can, 0:35:10.370 --> 0:35:13.129 and he's trying to get regulations passed for crypto so 0:35:13.130 --> 0:35:16.010 that he doesn't get regulated out of existence so that 0:35:16.010 --> 0:35:19.130 the world doesn't come together in a coordinated way to 0:35:19.130 --> 0:35:21.930 figure out this was all Ponzi scams and send them 0:35:21.930 --> 0:35:24.740 into jail. So let's say that's the path. Well, it 0:35:24.739 --> 0:35:29.239 would make sense because, you know, his his family, like 0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:33.649 he has political connections and he's you know, the thing is, 0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:36.109 his mom was at MIT or something like that, like 0:35:36.110 --> 0:35:40.250 his dad's a lawyer that worked, I think with SEC 0:35:40.250 --> 0:35:43.339 or something. There's there's there's definitely connections there. Government and 0:35:44.460 --> 0:35:48.590 and you know, the elite of the top universities of 0:35:48.590 --> 0:35:52.219 the United States. So he has pedigree so he's seasoned 0:35:52.219 --> 0:35:54.320 and he he can he can have doors open for 0:35:54.320 --> 0:35:57.320 him easier than somebody like Sisi who's, you know, like 0:35:57.530 --> 0:36:02.450 kind of playing fast and loose and shirking regulations. So 0:36:02.450 --> 0:36:05.990 so Sam starts to, like, want to engage with U.S. regulators. 0:36:05.989 --> 0:36:10.550 He sets up FDX U X U.S. I mean, he 0:36:10.550 --> 0:36:15.320 starts demonstrating to the Democratic Party. He starts to lobby 0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:20.980 lawmakers his. Carolyn, who is, you know, one of the 0:36:20.980 --> 0:36:24.490 people at Alameda, which is the sister company there who 0:36:24.520 --> 0:36:29.440 wasn't in charge until the the CEO, Sam Trabuco, stepped 0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:31.359 down back in August, which was a huge red flag 0:36:31.360 --> 0:36:33.609 to me. And I was tweeting about it that he 0:36:33.610 --> 0:36:39.279 stepped down. So she she kind of came in to 0:36:39.280 --> 0:36:42.790 lead Alameda and she has this connection in with Gary 0:36:42.790 --> 0:36:45.880 Gensler in this sort of like two degrees of separation 0:36:46.180 --> 0:36:49.450 and that there's a relationship between her father who worked 0:36:49.450 --> 0:36:54.290 with Gary at MIT and then some other like his boss. 0:36:54.310 --> 0:36:57.310 Okay, just say it. Yes, there's incestuous. 0:36:57.340 --> 0:36:57.910 There is. 0:36:58.390 --> 0:36:59.050 Happening here. 0:36:59.080 --> 0:37:01.270 There is. But there's two ways to look at it. 0:37:01.270 --> 0:37:03.430 Like for sure, no matter which way you look at it, 0:37:03.430 --> 0:37:06.400 there's definitely like he's greasing the wheels and trying to 0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:12.790 use money to influence regulators to, like, favorably give him 0:37:12.790 --> 0:37:15.730 better access and put him in a stronger position. So 0:37:15.730 --> 0:37:17.589 there's there's two ways to look at it. One is 0:37:17.590 --> 0:37:21.160 the conspiracy way and one is the capitalist sort of way. 0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:23.710 I'm like, in the middle. I kind of lean towards 0:37:23.710 --> 0:37:25.600 more of a conspiracy one on this one, because it 0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:29.500 sounds it's a little bit too, too crazy what happened 0:37:29.500 --> 0:37:30.220 with FDX. 0:37:30.730 --> 0:37:33.430 And this this adds fuel to it right here. The 0:37:33.430 --> 0:37:38.500 New York Times puts out a puff piece saying for years, 0:37:38.590 --> 0:37:41.020 we know New York Times is an extremely, you know, 0:37:41.020 --> 0:37:45.340 leftist Democrat leaning publication. It's not even up for debate. 0:37:45.610 --> 0:37:49.060 And they're getting called out on on this piece, of course, 0:37:49.060 --> 0:37:52.899 by their competition at The New York Post. But then 0:37:52.900 --> 0:37:56.830 you've got Brian Armstrong saying that Twitter is broke in 0:37:56.830 --> 0:37:59.410 just about every piece of New York Times is writing 0:37:59.410 --> 0:38:02.020 puff pieces on a criminal. For a criminal feels like 0:38:02.020 --> 0:38:04.350 a turning point for citizen journalism and loss of trust 0:38:04.360 --> 0:38:11.370 and MSM. Hello, Mr. Armstrong. Welcome to 2016 that this 0:38:11.410 --> 0:38:15.190 this is not new. This is more than six years old. 0:38:15.190 --> 0:38:19.780 But we saw it really begin to surface when Trump 0:38:19.780 --> 0:38:22.540 came down that escalator and all of a sudden journalism 0:38:22.540 --> 0:38:23.469 went out the window. 0:38:24.820 --> 0:38:27.940 I mean, it's been it's been a long it's it's 0:38:27.940 --> 0:38:33.819 been a long history of biased reporting that I don't 0:38:33.820 --> 0:38:37.450 think even started in 2016. I think it got worse 0:38:38.290 --> 0:38:42.400 as centralization happened more in the advertising and and social 0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:46.319 media news industry got worse and censorship. 0:38:46.330 --> 0:38:48.460 And they lost their minds when. 0:38:48.460 --> 0:38:49.180 Oh yeah, well. 0:38:49.180 --> 0:38:51.910 For sure that was it. That was like whatever wherever 0:38:52.090 --> 0:38:55.600 level of lunacy they were at, whatever trust they had, 0:38:55.930 --> 0:38:59.200 they're like, Screw it, We're going all in with our bias, 0:38:59.320 --> 0:39:00.430 whatever it means. 0:39:01.560 --> 0:39:05.009 Yeah, it's in. You can look at it like they 0:39:05.010 --> 0:39:08.610 the Democrats were kind of or Democratic Party received the 0:39:08.610 --> 0:39:12.900 most bonuses. You had Bill Clinton onstage at the FedEx 0:39:13.020 --> 0:39:18.300 conference there. It's it's obviously like they want to they 0:39:18.300 --> 0:39:20.100 want to kind of protect their own. They don't want 0:39:20.100 --> 0:39:22.050 to make it seem like they were complicit in this 0:39:22.050 --> 0:39:25.350 thing when when they really were. So they want to 0:39:25.350 --> 0:39:29.160 minimize the impact, of course. And it's super biased because, 0:39:29.370 --> 0:39:32.490 you know, they put this hit episode on Jesse Powell 0:39:32.489 --> 0:39:35.250 from crack and because he he was like kind of 0:39:35.250 --> 0:39:38.520 debating the the idea of cancel culture and things like that. 0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:41.520 And they were just like, offended morally that he would 0:39:41.940 --> 0:39:45.600 question the idea of like the the cancel culture thing. 0:39:45.600 --> 0:39:48.630 So they put out this scathing sort of hit piece 0:39:48.630 --> 0:39:51.330 on him. And then, yeah, once SBF comes out as 0:39:51.330 --> 0:39:55.410 a as an A massive fraud, they, they they don't 0:39:55.410 --> 0:39:57.480 want to like make it look like, oh that's the 0:39:57.480 --> 0:39:59.940 guy that was our guy. Right? That was, that was 0:39:59.940 --> 0:40:01.980 the guy that was the number one or number two 0:40:01.980 --> 0:40:05.550 donor to the Democratic Party. So, you know, 10 million 0:40:05.550 --> 0:40:09.900 or 11 million to Biden's campaign and was planning $1,000,000,000, 0:40:09.900 --> 0:40:12.150 you know, you saying is going to give $1,000,000,000 to 0:40:12.150 --> 0:40:16.710 Democratic politicians. But it's even it's even like less than 0:40:16.710 --> 0:40:19.469 the political thing. I think like on the capitalist sort 0:40:19.469 --> 0:40:22.380 of crypto side, the way that I look at it 0:40:22.380 --> 0:40:26.219 more is that, look, Sam was printing tens of billions 0:40:26.219 --> 0:40:30.270 of dollars just like Andreessen Horowitz, just like Coinbase Ventures, 0:40:30.510 --> 0:40:35.880 just like Binance, just like Three Arrows Capital was like 0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:39.839 all of these firms were doing the same degenerate like nonsense. 0:40:39.840 --> 0:40:43.500 In some ways it was fraud that they were just 0:40:43.500 --> 0:40:45.900 printing their own tokens and they were propping it up 0:40:45.900 --> 0:40:49.080 with this concept of web3 and defi and pumping it 0:40:49.080 --> 0:40:52.050 with billions of dollars of money and liquidity and like 0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:58.050 getting people like Katie Horne from A16 Crypto and like 0:40:58.890 --> 0:41:01.710 Balaji Srinivasan, who's a huge VC in the space to 0:41:01.710 --> 0:41:04.860 go on huge, influential podcast like the Tim Ferriss show 0:41:05.130 --> 0:41:07.800 and show this logic to people that you should, you 0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:11.070 should pay attention to Defi and put your money into it. 0:41:12.210 --> 0:41:14.489 And then obviously all the nonsense they did. But what 0:41:14.489 --> 0:41:16.680 the NFT is tying all that in to where they're 0:41:16.680 --> 0:41:21.480 literally paying celebrities to shill stuff, putting free stuff in 0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:24.270 their wallets and then putting them on the Jimmy Fallon show. 0:41:24.570 --> 0:41:26.580 I mean, there is a lot of nonsense going on. 0:41:26.850 --> 0:41:31.719 And when you think about it like Bitcoin. Is competing 0:41:31.719 --> 0:41:34.660 with every single other token on the planet. Every other 0:41:34.660 --> 0:41:38.109 cryptocurrency token is competing with Bitcoin. They're all trying to 0:41:38.110 --> 0:41:43.060 like suck away investor mindshare and dollars and store of value. 0:41:43.390 --> 0:41:47.440 People are people were treating JPEGs like store value. People 0:41:47.440 --> 0:41:52.000 were looking at other world or whatever the hell that 0:41:52.000 --> 0:41:54.940 thing was that the that the the ape people launched. 0:41:55.300 --> 0:41:59.380 As you know, if bitcoin's other side. Other side. Yeah. 0:41:59.530 --> 0:42:02.020 Bitcoin's too expensive for you, you know, by some, by 0:42:02.020 --> 0:42:05.470 some other side, by some ape coin. And it was 0:42:05.469 --> 0:42:08.589 being pushed by Coinbase and Robinhood and all these big 0:42:08.590 --> 0:42:12.070 retail exchanges. So from the top down, you had all these, 0:42:12.070 --> 0:42:17.830 all these people trying to push confusing bad logic out 0:42:17.830 --> 0:42:21.219 to investors and high net worth individuals like Mike Novogratz, 0:42:21.219 --> 0:42:24.879 who was literally shilling Ponzi scams like Luna to high 0:42:24.880 --> 0:42:28.190 net worth individuals, and Raul Paul from Real Vision, who 0:42:28.239 --> 0:42:31.150 was co-founder of Real Vision, was one of the biggest 0:42:31.150 --> 0:42:33.160 lunar shills there was and had all of his net 0:42:33.160 --> 0:42:34.640 worth and Luna there. 0:42:34.900 --> 0:42:36.969 Novogratz even got a Luna tattoo. 0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:41.739 Yeah. So like, look top down, you had all this 0:42:41.739 --> 0:42:46.030 dumb logic be pushed from from either VCs or celebrity 0:42:46.030 --> 0:42:50.259 influencers that had influence on high net worth individuals and 0:42:50.260 --> 0:42:53.740 retail traders to suck in tens of millions of people 0:42:53.739 --> 0:42:57.910 into like just suspending their logic and and going and 0:42:57.910 --> 0:43:02.140 gambling their money and all this crazy garbage. So SBF 0:43:02.140 --> 0:43:05.470 is just one pillar in that there's lots of other pillars. 0:43:05.480 --> 0:43:08.500 There's the whole, like I said, Silicon Valley, you know, 0:43:08.500 --> 0:43:11.529 there's the beautiful tattoo right there. I'm sure I like 0:43:11.530 --> 0:43:14.410 calling them. Mike No regrets instead of Mike. 0:43:14.590 --> 0:43:18.550 Mike Novogratz He he, of course, you know, has to 0:43:18.550 --> 0:43:21.190 make a call on it and basically say, well, now 0:43:21.190 --> 0:43:24.489 it's it's just a reminder, you know, to him. Yeah, 0:43:24.530 --> 0:43:28.299 I think that's the story right here. Luna Tattoo is 0:43:28.300 --> 0:43:35.500 a constant reminder that investing requires humility. Dude. Life requires humility. 0:43:35.890 --> 0:43:39.160 It's just, you know, if you get all proud about 0:43:39.160 --> 0:43:41.730 what you're doing, life will take you down a peg. 0:43:41.750 --> 0:43:43.270 Just it's how the world I think. 0:43:43.300 --> 0:43:46.689 I think. I think it's more insidious than that man. 0:43:46.690 --> 0:43:50.410 Like he was doing something highly unethical. He's either a 0:43:50.410 --> 0:43:54.940 complete jackass moron that doesn't see a Ponzi scam on it, 0:43:54.940 --> 0:43:57.040 scare him in the face enough that he tattoos it 0:43:57.040 --> 0:44:00.730 on himself, which shows me he's just a literal idiot. 0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:03.520 Like he. He's just an a moron. If he's a 0:44:03.520 --> 0:44:07.540 money manager with that much money in Luna, like tens 0:44:07.540 --> 0:44:11.980 of millions or more in Luna or he's a liar, 0:44:12.219 --> 0:44:15.250 and he knew what he was doing, and he knowingly 0:44:15.370 --> 0:44:18.010 sucked in millions of people to put their money in 0:44:18.010 --> 0:44:20.680 the Ponzi scheme. Because what he did was two or 0:44:20.680 --> 0:44:23.410 three nights before the whole thing blew up, he pulled 0:44:23.410 --> 0:44:26.620 hundreds of millions of dollars out of it. Yeah, that's right. 0:44:26.620 --> 0:44:28.779 That's criminal. I don't know. I don't know exactly if 0:44:28.780 --> 0:44:31.569 it was hundreds of millions. It was significant money, though, 0:44:31.570 --> 0:44:35.440 like it was either 30 million or 300 million, whatever. What? 0:44:35.540 --> 0:44:39.070 Doesn't matter, really. All the point is that he got 0:44:39.070 --> 0:44:42.250 people into the Ponzi scam. He got his money out, 0:44:42.489 --> 0:44:45.010 everybody else got wrecked, And then he says, Oh, yeah, 0:44:45.010 --> 0:44:47.140 I guess it's a reminder that you got to have humility, 0:44:47.260 --> 0:44:49.330 you know, like he's he's no different than the Wolf 0:44:49.330 --> 0:44:52.450 of Wall Street guy, like, sucker ing people into penny 0:44:52.450 --> 0:44:54.280 stocks and then dumping garbage on them. 0:44:54.489 --> 0:44:56.860 Who's getting a second chance like that, dude? Who's the 0:44:56.860 --> 0:44:57.930 wolf of Wall Street guy? 0:44:57.940 --> 0:45:00.580 What's Jordan Somebody's Jordan Belfort. 0:45:00.580 --> 0:45:03.220 Yeah. He like people. He still puts on events and 0:45:03.219 --> 0:45:05.950 people still come to him as a guru. And I'm like, 0:45:07.180 --> 0:45:10.450 you know, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me. 0:45:10.450 --> 0:45:13.719 Twice. Don't get fooled again. Shame on me. Oh. 0:45:15.190 --> 0:45:18.879 You sold him. Yeah. You saw this like SBF is 0:45:18.880 --> 0:45:21.609 now coming out. He did this whole long thread of 0:45:21.610 --> 0:45:22.839 cryptic tweets. 0:45:23.170 --> 0:45:25.060 And now this. He's going in the back end and 0:45:25.060 --> 0:45:28.150 deleting certain tweets. Somebody grabbed all of his tweets and 0:45:28.150 --> 0:45:29.980 saw that for every one new one that he would 0:45:29.980 --> 0:45:32.109 create a previous one got delete it. 0:45:32.560 --> 0:45:33.430 Oh, my gosh. 0:45:33.910 --> 0:45:35.680 I want to say this before we get into that. 0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:37.210 I want to say this because I want to jump in. 0:45:38.260 --> 0:45:40.690 So you say Novogratz, he basically pulled his money out, 0:45:40.690 --> 0:45:44.500 didn't say shit. Z, which I'm having more and more 0:45:44.500 --> 0:45:47.049 respect for all the time because he saw it go down. 0:45:47.410 --> 0:45:49.390 He said, Here's what we're going to do. We're going 0:45:49.390 --> 0:45:51.790 to liquidate this FTD because it looks like it's not 0:45:51.790 --> 0:45:54.460 good and we don't like how they're operating. And he 0:45:54.460 --> 0:45:56.770 was very public about it. So to me, I was like, 0:45:56.770 --> 0:45:59.680 Kudos to you, bro. I earned a little respect for you. 0:46:01.060 --> 0:46:04.430 I agree with that, man. I think that's true. I think. S.Z. 0:46:04.630 --> 0:46:07.750 I'm just more inclined to trust him, even though, like, 0:46:07.750 --> 0:46:10.450 I'm not recommending people use Binance or put their money 0:46:10.450 --> 0:46:13.900 on Binance. But of, of all of these crypto casino 0:46:13.900 --> 0:46:19.180 operators like S.Z. feels at least like he has reverence 0:46:19.180 --> 0:46:22.570 for Bitcoin and he respects Bitcoin and he doesn't FUD 0:46:22.570 --> 0:46:25.960 Bitcoin like that was the thing. SBF was doing that. 0:46:26.170 --> 0:46:28.270 Like I'm saying, I don't, I don't necessarily think it 0:46:28.270 --> 0:46:30.649 was so much a political cover up. Thing where it's 0:46:30.650 --> 0:46:34.250 like the the the powers that be in the traditional 0:46:34.250 --> 0:46:37.520 markets were actually just trying to prop him up. And then, 0:46:37.520 --> 0:46:40.880 you know, he's actually a CIA agent or something like that. 0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:42.979 And he's like, he's a spook. And he actually blew 0:46:42.980 --> 0:46:45.140 the whole thing up on purpose to give them an 0:46:45.140 --> 0:46:48.320 excuse to come in and heavily regulate. That's one of 0:46:48.320 --> 0:46:51.469 the conspiracy narratives going around. I mean, it's compelling because 0:46:51.469 --> 0:46:54.440 all of this shit that happened that blew up with 0:46:54.440 --> 0:46:58.700 FDX will cause a huge backlash from regulators. But I 0:46:58.700 --> 0:47:00.680 think more so What it was, was just he had 0:47:00.680 --> 0:47:03.469 this opportunity to grab a hold of a market lead 0:47:03.469 --> 0:47:08.120 against finance. If the world started to regulate crypto and 0:47:08.120 --> 0:47:11.120 if he was able to get regulations passed that gave 0:47:11.120 --> 0:47:15.529 his shit coin printing abilities a little run for their money. 0:47:16.890 --> 0:47:20.550 Well, they are definitely coming out now and saying that 0:47:20.820 --> 0:47:25.170 they scheduled a hearing to investigate what happened with FDX. 0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:27.210 And of course, it's just going to be an opportunity 0:47:27.210 --> 0:47:30.540 for them to all grandstand and show how smart they are, 0:47:30.540 --> 0:47:34.500 not listen to the actual people that are that are testifying. 0:47:34.500 --> 0:47:38.489 And maybe maybe your conspiracy theory is accurate. But, you know, 0:47:38.790 --> 0:47:41.549 let's look back here at Sam's tweets. He comes out 0:47:41.550 --> 0:47:44.040 with all these cryptic tweets, and now he's promising to 0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:48.239 try again to try to recover people's money. And here's 0:47:48.239 --> 0:47:50.129 the part that gets me the most when we get 0:47:50.130 --> 0:47:52.260 to the fool me once, Shame on you. Fool me twice, 0:47:52.260 --> 0:47:56.760 shame on me. Kevin O'Leary says that he is willing 0:47:56.760 --> 0:48:02.400 to give. He did invest in Sam Bankman-fried again, which 0:48:02.400 --> 0:48:05.910 causes like whatever respect I had for Mr. Wonderful to 0:48:05.910 --> 0:48:09.960 go your Mr. Stupid Mr. Idiot. What in the world 0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:13.319 are what do you know how many how influential that 0:48:13.320 --> 0:48:15.509 is to other people that have just lost a lot 0:48:15.510 --> 0:48:17.819 of money and you're talking that you would invest in 0:48:18.060 --> 0:48:19.650 this thief again. 0:48:19.660 --> 0:48:22.770 Well, he was talking about how, you know, he's looking 0:48:22.770 --> 0:48:25.080 for one of these big companies to crash, because that 0:48:25.080 --> 0:48:27.720 could be the moment that he could then go in. 0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:29.580 He's going to think that's near the bottom. And if 0:48:29.580 --> 0:48:33.840 we're talking on the theory that that Brad here had said, well, 0:48:33.840 --> 0:48:36.779 we're kind of like we were in November of 2018, 0:48:37.020 --> 0:48:41.759 2018 was near the low of crypto like and then that. 0:48:41.760 --> 0:48:47.220 But 2018, there was not a big collapse of trust 0:48:47.219 --> 0:48:51.089 in the space. It was rebounding. People were taking their time. 0:48:51.090 --> 0:48:51.960 They were holding well. 0:48:51.960 --> 0:48:57.000 Actually it wasn't. It was 2019 when the real bear 0:48:57.000 --> 0:49:00.690 market happened. Like 2018 was like the slow unwind of 0:49:00.690 --> 0:49:06.109 the bubble. And then 2019 was really the capitulation phase. 0:49:06.120 --> 0:49:09.930 It was long and brutal and the price of ETHE 0:49:09.930 --> 0:49:16.710 went from 1400 to something like, I think 400 in 2018. 0:49:16.980 --> 0:49:19.040 Now I went down to 89 bucks down in this 0:49:19.050 --> 0:49:24.120 in November of 2018, 2019, was it 2019? And I 0:49:24.120 --> 0:49:25.440 was looking at the wrong leg. That's what I saw. 0:49:25.440 --> 0:49:27.900 It was like almost 90 bucks. The one point So 0:49:27.900 --> 0:49:29.290 maybe I was looking at to 2019. 0:49:29.370 --> 0:49:31.920 Maybe it was I'm just going by memory on this. 0:49:31.920 --> 0:49:35.250 I'm pretty sure, though, the 2019 was like the real 0:49:35.790 --> 0:49:39.840 capitulation where we saw the like soft liquidity go to zero, 0:49:40.140 --> 0:49:42.750 a lot of all coins that completely got delisted. So 0:49:42.989 --> 0:49:46.710 the prices went completely to zero and E just kept 0:49:46.710 --> 0:49:50.040 trending down, down, down, down to eventually got to $80 0:49:50.040 --> 0:49:56.669 or so. And that was that was you know, that's 0:49:56.670 --> 0:49:58.410 like what I think is in for the next year. 0:49:58.410 --> 0:50:01.109 That's that's what I believe is going to happen over 0:50:01.110 --> 0:50:03.629 the next year, maybe two years at this point, because 0:50:04.140 --> 0:50:07.230 what just what just transpired in the crypto markets is 0:50:07.230 --> 0:50:11.490 just insane. Like the fact that nobody saw this stuff. 0:50:12.060 --> 0:50:14.580 It's just going to give the regulators an excuse to 0:50:14.580 --> 0:50:16.620 come in and say, look, these people are all children 0:50:16.620 --> 0:50:19.230 and scammers. They can't be left alone in a room 0:50:19.230 --> 0:50:22.319 with each other. They're going to like, start cannibalizing each 0:50:22.320 --> 0:50:25.259 other and they're going to lose everybody's money. So we 0:50:25.260 --> 0:50:28.920 have to come in and regulate this. They're not responsible. And, 0:50:29.250 --> 0:50:31.740 you know, they got their push and Ponzi schemes and 0:50:32.100 --> 0:50:34.770 you can't see obvious fraud in front of their faces. 0:50:35.250 --> 0:50:38.910 And look at all this insane, like unregistered broker dealer 0:50:38.910 --> 0:50:42.990 stuff happening and celebrities acting like promoters of complete garbage. 0:50:43.350 --> 0:50:45.509 So we have to come in and regulate. And this 0:50:45.510 --> 0:50:48.509 is going to be good, actually, because it'll cause more 0:50:48.510 --> 0:50:51.000 people to finally be able to wake up and see 0:50:51.000 --> 0:50:54.299 the difference between Bitcoin and crypto. Because right now it's 0:50:54.300 --> 0:50:56.250 very confusing because they can go out there and say 0:50:56.250 --> 0:51:00.210 absolute trash, like people with millions of YouTube subscribers. They 0:51:00.210 --> 0:51:04.259 have no business telling people advice on how they should 0:51:04.260 --> 0:51:07.860 invest their money, have the respect in a bull market 0:51:07.890 --> 0:51:11.130 as if there's some kind of smart, you know, financial 0:51:11.130 --> 0:51:14.550 advisor that knows the difference between Bitcoin and a defi 0:51:14.550 --> 0:51:19.620 token or an NFT land coin or whatever, and comparing 0:51:19.620 --> 0:51:22.140 them almost the same. So you end up with a 0:51:22.140 --> 0:51:24.900 lot of people getting into things like Celsius because they 0:51:24.900 --> 0:51:27.840 want yield or a lot of people going into Defi 0:51:27.840 --> 0:51:31.050 and thinking that they're going to be doing yield farming 0:51:31.050 --> 0:51:35.900 and getting yield. So I think it's important that. They 0:51:35.900 --> 0:51:40.550 recognize that it's not just SBF was a fraudster. It's 0:51:40.550 --> 0:51:43.910 that like they got to have some introspection and realize 0:51:43.910 --> 0:51:47.509 that they are the ones that enabled this market to 0:51:47.510 --> 0:51:49.640 get to a place where it can be a complete 0:51:49.640 --> 0:51:54.230 fraudulent base and grow massively to a point where it's 0:51:54.230 --> 0:51:57.020 going to be literally Ponzi schemes blowing up and burning 0:51:57.020 --> 0:52:00.290 tens of billions of people's dollars because that's where it 0:52:00.290 --> 0:52:02.689 got to. And they're all trying to sidestep it right now. 0:52:02.690 --> 0:52:05.150 You can see if you go on Twitter spaces or 0:52:05.150 --> 0:52:07.370 listen any interviews like what you just said with Kevin 0:52:07.370 --> 0:52:09.890 O'Leary or like what The New York Times is doing, 0:52:10.460 --> 0:52:12.920 they're all trying to sidestep it and say like, oh, 0:52:12.920 --> 0:52:15.260 we couldn't see this coming or Oh, he's a good guy. 0:52:15.260 --> 0:52:17.930 We did our due diligence, we'd invest again. They're really 0:52:17.930 --> 0:52:20.750 trying to sidestep it and say things like they're out 0:52:20.750 --> 0:52:23.410 there doing that or they're saying things like, He was 0:52:23.420 --> 0:52:26.750 a fraud, It's a centralized exchange. That's the problem. You 0:52:26.750 --> 0:52:29.299 got to go into Defi or you got to hold 0:52:29.300 --> 0:52:32.899 your own keys with with the theory, Like they're trying 0:52:32.900 --> 0:52:37.160 to basically sidestep the whole entire rest of the picture. 0:52:37.160 --> 0:52:39.739 And dude, I came on this podcast back in May 0:52:39.739 --> 0:52:44.090 talking about Defi like Luno was Defi so so it 0:52:44.090 --> 0:52:47.660 started with Defi really. It was these centralized people that 0:52:47.660 --> 0:52:51.590 were propping up defi money printing games. And then it yeah, 0:52:51.590 --> 0:52:55.070 they made markets on centralized exchanges, They, they listed the 0:52:55.070 --> 0:52:58.610 defi coins on centralized exchanges and then that caused a 0:52:58.610 --> 0:53:02.180 whole bunch of crazy nonsense to grow even bigger. But 0:53:02.180 --> 0:53:05.779 this started from Defi like Defi is the problem here 0:53:05.960 --> 0:53:09.380 the Ethereum defi I like I like the idea like 0:53:09.380 --> 0:53:13.850 I said before, a decentralized lending, decentralized exchange. Obviously money 0:53:13.850 --> 0:53:15.860 is the biggest use case that you can ever have 0:53:15.860 --> 0:53:19.940 for decentralized finance. Like the money is the biggest use 0:53:19.940 --> 0:53:25.100 case of decentralized finance. Having a money that's sound and 0:53:25.100 --> 0:53:28.880 and fixed and trustworthy in terms of its monetary policy, 0:53:29.030 --> 0:53:33.050 something predictable for 100 years in the future. That's a 0:53:33.050 --> 0:53:35.810 ten x improvement over gold. And that's not going to 0:53:35.810 --> 0:53:40.160 just slowly be debased like the dollar. Bitcoin is perfect 0:53:40.160 --> 0:53:43.400 money and it's the building block of Defi. You got 0:53:43.400 --> 0:53:46.520 to start with a sound money and that's what Bitcoin is. 0:53:46.670 --> 0:53:51.110 And we're building out decentralized finance on Bitcoin. So it's 0:53:51.110 --> 0:53:54.440 just not done with all these token Ponzi scams attached 0:53:54.440 --> 0:53:56.480 to it. It's going to be just done like technology, 0:53:56.480 --> 0:53:57.440 like Bitcoin. 0:53:57.530 --> 0:54:01.400 Or do you expect, do you think that the government 0:54:01.400 --> 0:54:02.690 is going to come out and say, Hey, these are 0:54:02.690 --> 0:54:05.600 all unregistered securities and we're going to see thousands of 0:54:05.600 --> 0:54:09.620 coins just go to zero? Is that is that it's likely? 0:54:09.980 --> 0:54:13.549 It's likely at this point. I mean, it's pretty clear 0:54:13.550 --> 0:54:16.430 what the SEC's been signaling for the last little while 0:54:16.430 --> 0:54:20.600 and then recently with the with their library case, They 0:54:20.630 --> 0:54:22.370 you know, that's a weird one if you're not really 0:54:22.370 --> 0:54:24.440 paying too much attention because you're like, why would they 0:54:24.440 --> 0:54:28.130 go after library? That's like a 2016 ICO that raised 0:54:28.130 --> 0:54:33.830 like $500,000. It's like a peanut compared to EOS and 0:54:33.830 --> 0:54:35.989 and all this other stuff with FTT token in the 0:54:35.989 --> 0:54:38.990 billions and Solana and Ethereum and all these other things 0:54:38.989 --> 0:54:43.489 that raise, you know, either raised billions or became the 0:54:43.489 --> 0:54:46.850 pre mine bag of it was worth billions. So why 0:54:46.850 --> 0:54:51.440 would they go after library. Well it's actually in a 0:54:51.440 --> 0:54:56.840 game theory sort of scenario. Library gives them a precedent 0:54:56.930 --> 0:55:01.650 because it's a court ruling. To be able to have 0:55:01.650 --> 0:55:05.850 legal ground, that all of these things are securities. And 0:55:06.030 --> 0:55:09.690 library didn't even do a traditional ICOs. They didn't actually 0:55:09.690 --> 0:55:12.629 like do this big thing with an ICO. They actually 0:55:12.630 --> 0:55:16.920 just sold pre mined coins to people after the project launched. 0:55:17.400 --> 0:55:21.480 So it's an important case. It's an important ruling because 0:55:21.480 --> 0:55:24.029 it went to the courts. And, you know, obviously we've 0:55:24.030 --> 0:55:27.660 had tons of SEC settlements where they've said like, you know, hey, 0:55:27.660 --> 0:55:30.960 Kim Kardashian, you can't just go out and promote this thing. 0:55:31.150 --> 0:55:34.200 Here's a fine for $500,000 or a million or whatever 0:55:34.200 --> 0:55:38.069 it is, or, hey, like, you know, can you can't 0:55:38.070 --> 0:55:41.700 just launch this illegal security. You're going to have to 0:55:41.700 --> 0:55:44.910 send all the money back to all the investors. There's 0:55:44.910 --> 0:55:47.069 all kinds of things like that that happen. But this 0:55:47.070 --> 0:55:50.400 this one actually sets a precedent that the courts have 0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:54.930 decided in the SEC's favor. So now this spells a 0:55:54.930 --> 0:55:58.770 lot of problems for all the other cryptocurrencies that are 0:55:58.770 --> 0:56:03.910 most likely unregistered securities because. The shit that blew up 0:56:03.910 --> 0:56:06.970 in the last eight months in crypto is going to 0:56:06.969 --> 0:56:10.810 cause an extreme backlash from the regulators to come and 0:56:10.810 --> 0:56:13.960 look at these markets. And even with the OFAC sanctioning 0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:16.989 the tornado cache protocol and arresting the dev, you can 0:56:16.989 --> 0:56:20.859 see like it's clear they don't want to see decentralized 0:56:20.860 --> 0:56:25.810 finance on Ethereum. Succeed from multiple angles. They don't want 0:56:25.810 --> 0:56:27.580 to see it be able to be used for criminal 0:56:27.580 --> 0:56:30.759 money laundering and funding Russia and all blah, blah, blah. 0:56:30.770 --> 0:56:32.980 Like all the traditional rules that they have in the 0:56:32.980 --> 0:56:36.399 financial system, whether you agree with that or not. Like, 0:56:36.400 --> 0:56:38.800 it's not even a comment on that. It's just they 0:56:38.800 --> 0:56:42.250 have the guns, they have the regulations in place. It's 0:56:42.250 --> 0:56:46.990 clear they're enforcing the regulations on Defi. So people are 0:56:46.989 --> 0:56:49.900 just out there screaming in the wind saying, Yeah, but 0:56:49.900 --> 0:56:52.420 we want to be able to do it. Well, the 0:56:52.420 --> 0:56:55.450 SEC has rules and they have the authority. So you're 0:56:55.450 --> 0:56:59.650 either risking going to jail or getting a huge fine 0:56:59.650 --> 0:57:02.520 by just going against the SEC, going against old fact, 0:57:02.530 --> 0:57:06.290 going against fat if. And look, the only community that 0:57:06.290 --> 0:57:10.580 is decentralized enough to withstand a government regulatory clampdown is Bitcoin. 0:57:11.090 --> 0:57:14.090 There actually is nothing that the regulators can do to 0:57:14.090 --> 0:57:17.780 the Bitcoin protocol to change the Bitcoin protocol. We saw 0:57:17.810 --> 0:57:21.350 that play out with the SegWit two X sort of No. 0:57:21.350 --> 0:57:26.150 Two X movement. The Blocksize wars in 2017, the Bitcoiners 0:57:26.150 --> 0:57:29.660 like that were running their own nodes. It got like 0:57:29.660 --> 0:57:34.100 it proved out that the Bitcoin network and the consensus 0:57:34.100 --> 0:57:37.160 of Bitcoin is not controlled by corporations. It's not controlled 0:57:37.160 --> 0:57:40.970 by miners. It's controlled by users that run nodes. So 0:57:41.010 --> 0:57:44.330 doesn't matter what the government says to the mining companies 0:57:44.330 --> 0:57:48.050 or to the Bitcoin developers. It's the it's the it's 0:57:48.050 --> 0:57:50.570 the hundred thousand users that run their own nodes that 0:57:50.570 --> 0:57:53.330 actually enforce the rules of Bitcoin. And just like how 0:57:53.330 --> 0:57:56.750 in BitTorrent, it's illegal to download movies, but people still 0:57:56.750 --> 0:57:59.270 do it anyways because there's like too many people to 0:57:59.360 --> 0:58:02.420 enforce the rule. They can't stop bitcoin and they can't 0:58:02.420 --> 0:58:03.380 change bitcoin. 0:58:03.830 --> 0:58:06.740 Well, Karen on Capitol Hill has called and asked to 0:58:06.740 --> 0:58:08.300 speak to the manager of Bitcoin. 0:58:09.350 --> 0:58:10.400 And I want to talk to. 0:58:10.410 --> 0:58:14.120 The manager who's in charge here. Nobody says that that 0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:16.460 is true. So as we as we wrap this thing 0:58:16.460 --> 0:58:19.880 up here, you know, give a warning to people maybe 0:58:19.880 --> 0:58:23.690 around your thoughts around cbdcs, because as I'm looking at 0:58:23.690 --> 0:58:25.190 this thing and as we've told you all and I've 0:58:25.190 --> 0:58:28.910 talked about this, it seems that FDX was a Ponzi 0:58:28.920 --> 0:58:33.870 set up with the intention to eventually try to crash crypto. 0:58:33.890 --> 0:58:36.590 They're laundering money that they're given to Ukraine. It's going 0:58:36.590 --> 0:58:39.860 back to the politicians, not only on the Democrats side. 0:58:40.220 --> 0:58:42.620 Mitch McConnell got two and a half million dollars. They 0:58:42.620 --> 0:58:45.830 were showing it. And then right after that, boom, oh, hey, 0:58:46.160 --> 0:58:48.100 we're going to we're going to we're going to test 0:58:48.110 --> 0:58:52.070 a 12 week cbdc pilot program. You guys have nothing 0:58:52.070 --> 0:58:56.290 to do with FDX or any of that. So, I mean, seriously, 0:58:56.330 --> 0:58:59.540 this seems like the worst sort of dystopian kind of 0:58:59.540 --> 0:59:00.890 thing we could possibly have. Is this. 0:59:01.910 --> 0:59:05.810 Yeah, I'm not I'm not super worried about Cbdcs because 0:59:05.810 --> 0:59:08.660 I just don't think that we have a culture here 0:59:08.660 --> 0:59:11.900 where people would want to use them. And even if 0:59:11.900 --> 0:59:14.270 they did want to use them, let's say it's like 0:59:14.570 --> 0:59:19.340 a real sort of brainwashing scenario, like what happened with 0:59:19.640 --> 0:59:24.680 the COVID situation where people just politically aligned to to 0:59:24.680 --> 0:59:28.400 an opinion because of their their force fed opinions from 0:59:28.400 --> 0:59:32.000 top down from celebrities and and government officials, and you. 0:59:32.000 --> 0:59:33.530 Just want granny to die. 0:59:33.610 --> 0:59:34.850 That's yeah, yeah, that's all. 0:59:34.850 --> 0:59:36.800 Fred Mills You just want granny to die. 0:59:36.800 --> 0:59:38.690 So. So if they can figure out a way to 0:59:38.900 --> 0:59:41.810 get you to adopt the Cbdc based on that sort 0:59:41.810 --> 0:59:46.970 of like manipulation, like maybe they introduce a UBI $400 0:59:46.970 --> 0:59:48.470 a month, The only way you can get it is 0:59:48.470 --> 0:59:50.710 if you use the cbdc wallet or something like that. 0:59:50.950 --> 0:59:52.070 What if what if they just. 0:59:52.070 --> 0:59:54.770 Say, What if the government says we are extending the 0:59:54.770 --> 0:59:56.630 dollar in dollar for dollar? 0:59:56.650 --> 0:59:58.760 That's I'm saying like, you know, they won't be able 0:59:58.760 --> 1:00:01.250 to just do something like that in United States. It's 1:00:01.250 --> 1:00:05.419 not China. Like you guys have a much more. Yeah, but, 1:00:05.420 --> 1:00:08.959 but you guys have a much more like anti authoritarian 1:00:08.960 --> 1:00:12.320 freedom culture than China or even Canada where I live. 1:00:12.770 --> 1:00:15.710 So I don't think that they can actually force a 1:00:15.710 --> 1:00:17.900 change over to see because I think they'll have to 1:00:17.900 --> 1:00:22.760 entice people to do it through creative things like a UBI. 1:00:22.790 --> 1:00:24.200 You know, if you don't use it, you don't get 1:00:24.200 --> 1:00:27.040 the UBI. Here's $500 a month for everybody who uses 1:00:27.050 --> 1:00:30.380 our wallet. And if they do that, I mean, that's 1:00:30.380 --> 1:00:34.400 actually kind of good for Bitcoin, I believe, because it 1:00:34.400 --> 1:00:37.040 will it will you know, it doesn't matter if it's 1:00:37.040 --> 1:00:41.060 a dollar or a cbdc. It gets people more thinking 1:00:41.060 --> 1:00:45.380 digitally and it will show the need for Bitcoin. It'll 1:00:45.680 --> 1:00:49.030 further separate Bitcoin from everything else because Bitcoin will be 1:00:49.040 --> 1:00:52.850 then even more will be the only decentralized censorship resistant 1:00:53.060 --> 1:00:55.460 money that we have in the world. So I think 1:00:55.460 --> 1:00:59.660 it's good for bitcoin and bitcoin holders should definitely be 1:00:59.660 --> 1:01:02.660 wary of Cbdcs, but I actually think that the crypto 1:01:02.660 --> 1:01:06.320 thing is a more insidious threat to Bitcoin success because 1:01:06.320 --> 1:01:10.370 it's propped up by influencers that are not trying to 1:01:10.370 --> 1:01:13.190 like surveil you necessarily. They're just trying to get rich 1:01:13.520 --> 1:01:17.959 and they're, you know, they were effectively using celebrity influence 1:01:17.960 --> 1:01:21.890 to brainwash tens of millions of people into buying garbage 1:01:21.890 --> 1:01:24.800 and not paying attention to Bitcoin. And, you know, Saez 1:01:24.950 --> 1:01:28.520 was out there or Sam was SBF was out there 1:01:28.700 --> 1:01:33.560 lobbying against Bitcoin, saying things like Lightning Network is too slow. 1:01:33.590 --> 1:01:35.690 You know, you can't use that for money for the world. 1:01:36.270 --> 1:01:39.350 Salon is the solution. And his lobbying that he was 1:01:39.350 --> 1:01:42.740 doing was basically trying to put Bitcoin and Ethereum and 1:01:43.010 --> 1:01:48.050 Solana in the same category legally. So clearly there's objectives 1:01:48.050 --> 1:01:51.110 here from the Ethereum crowd, like COIN Center is funded 1:01:51.110 --> 1:01:55.970 by consensus and they benefited greatly at least 10 million 1:01:55.970 --> 1:01:59.990 or maybe maybe $4 million or something off the jet 1:01:59.990 --> 1:02:05.330 coin scam that got ran in 2021. Consensus airdropped like 1:02:05.330 --> 1:02:09.560 tons of get coin tokens to to to coin center 1:02:09.770 --> 1:02:11.870 and then coin center goes and lobbies and tries to 1:02:11.870 --> 1:02:14.720 convince the government that Ethereum is not a security. So 1:02:14.840 --> 1:02:18.770 you have like all of these COIN foundations and lobby 1:02:18.770 --> 1:02:22.880 groups fighting against Bitcoin, trying to lump Bitcoin in with 1:02:22.880 --> 1:02:25.430 all the pawns is a nonsense that happened in crypto. 1:02:25.760 --> 1:02:29.750 And honestly, it's like that's what I think is more 1:02:30.080 --> 1:02:32.720 at play here. I don't necessarily think it's so much 1:02:32.720 --> 1:02:37.460 like political conspiracies. It's just incentives. Like Ripple is literally 1:02:37.460 --> 1:02:40.910 funding Greenpeace to fund Bitcoin and say proof of work 1:02:40.910 --> 1:02:43.940 is evil and it's going to boil the oceans. Ethereum 1:02:43.940 --> 1:02:46.490 and consensus are out there trying to flood Bitcoin, saying, Oh, 1:02:46.490 --> 1:02:49.070 now we're proof of stake, we're green coin. Sam was 1:02:49.070 --> 1:02:51.500 doing the same thing. So literally this is a battle 1:02:51.500 --> 1:02:54.710 for money. And while there is some political component to it, 1:02:55.400 --> 1:02:57.740 people got to realize that like if we don't have 1:02:57.740 --> 1:03:02.180 bitcoin separated from crypto, we will get into a world 1:03:02.180 --> 1:03:05.780 of cbdcs and surveillance. Because they can co-opt Solana, they 1:03:05.780 --> 1:03:09.110 can co-opt Ethereum. Everything else is centralized. And if we 1:03:09.110 --> 1:03:12.080 really do want to have a sovereign form of money 1:03:12.080 --> 1:03:14.810 that we can use, that's censorship free, you got to 1:03:14.810 --> 1:03:17.240 choose Bitcoin and you got to start learning more about 1:03:17.240 --> 1:03:20.180 Bitcoin and think a little longer term instead of like, 1:03:20.180 --> 1:03:23.150 how do I get the next 100% API on my 1:03:23.150 --> 1:03:25.370 on my, my, my Stablecoins are like, what's the next 1:03:25.370 --> 1:03:27.290 NFT thing that's going to ten X? 1:03:27.710 --> 1:03:30.380 We will forever live in a Gordon Gekko. Greed is 1:03:30.380 --> 1:03:34.160 good world. Unfortunately, it seems like stories are coming up 1:03:34.160 --> 1:03:36.320 every day. So I got one last question before we 1:03:36.320 --> 1:03:39.050 let you go, Brad. Thank you for for your time 1:03:39.050 --> 1:03:44.750 and your opinions today. Now, Genesis Global is halting withdrawals. 1:03:44.930 --> 1:03:48.170 The question is this. Do you feel like we've seen 1:03:48.170 --> 1:03:51.230 the majority of the cascading effect of this or do 1:03:51.230 --> 1:03:52.730 you feel like we're still at the tip of the 1:03:52.730 --> 1:03:56.630 iceberg and and the you know, the markets are still 1:03:56.630 --> 1:04:03.220 really going to tumble, including Bitcoin because. Bitcoin is tied 1:04:03.220 --> 1:04:06.400 to crypto. Whether they'd like it or not. 1:04:07.390 --> 1:04:09.520 So I do think like in the analogy I set 1:04:09.520 --> 1:04:11.530 up at the beginning that we're at like the end 1:04:11.530 --> 1:04:14.740 of 2018. And if you look at the chart market 1:04:14.740 --> 1:04:17.890 or the coin markets and the charts for 2019, I 1:04:17.890 --> 1:04:21.610 think that's where we're going in 2023. It's not going 1:04:21.610 --> 1:04:25.030 to be good. It's going to be a long, brutal, 1:04:25.270 --> 1:04:31.510 painful capitulation. And there's so many overvalued coins like look 1:04:31.510 --> 1:04:35.380 at go through coin gecko's top 100 and just like 1:04:35.650 --> 1:04:39.250 try to rationalize the valuation of these coins for their 1:04:39.250 --> 1:04:42.400 market caps and just look at the chart at like 1:04:42.400 --> 1:04:46.990 let's say the Fed didn't print $10 trillion and reignite everything, right? 1:04:47.710 --> 1:04:50.170 Look at the trend of where most altcoins were going. 1:04:50.200 --> 1:04:54.880 They were going to zero. But because 20, 20, 2020, 1:04:55.000 --> 1:04:57.370 like the end of 2020 and, you know, beginning of 1:04:57.370 --> 1:05:01.840 2021 bubble happened. Like, just click on, click on. Like 1:05:01.840 --> 1:05:04.030 not even Solana, because that was an ICO. Let's just 1:05:04.270 --> 1:05:05.920 let's just look at one of the. 1:05:06.670 --> 1:05:06.940 Pick. 1:05:06.940 --> 1:05:10.090 One, for instance, like Tron Coin. I'm not trying to 1:05:10.090 --> 1:05:12.880 pick on any specific Cardano's another perfect one. 1:05:13.180 --> 1:05:15.100 So let's look at Tron here. Here we go. It 1:05:15.100 --> 1:05:18.370 hit a zoom. I forget. Forget the ICO, but in 1:05:18.370 --> 1:05:24.340 its peak in 2021, it got up to, what, $0.16? 1:05:24.340 --> 1:05:26.540 And now it's sitting. Oh, no, no. 1:05:26.560 --> 1:05:28.960 Well, nine and a half billion dollars is. 1:05:28.960 --> 1:05:31.060 What it was. Nine and a half billion market cap. 1:05:31.060 --> 1:05:35.560 But look at the price. Say January 2020, what was 1:05:35.560 --> 1:05:37.660 the price of Tron in January 2020? 1:05:38.020 --> 1:05:40.600 That would have been about a penny and a half. 1:05:41.110 --> 1:05:44.770 You know, like 2 billion. Yeah. So? So a penny 1:05:44.770 --> 1:05:49.900 and a half for Tron is still overvalued, in my opinion, 1:05:50.170 --> 1:05:52.870 because we were we were kind of reconciling. We were 1:05:52.870 --> 1:05:54.820 going through a two year bear market where people were 1:05:54.820 --> 1:05:58.060 realizing that this stuff doesn't have a lot of value. Honestly, 1:05:58.060 --> 1:06:01.660 it's not really that valuable. They're more like, if you 1:06:01.660 --> 1:06:04.120 want to be, if you want to be generous, you 1:06:04.120 --> 1:06:06.580 can say that if Bitcoin is a commodity and so 1:06:06.580 --> 1:06:08.530 are some of these altcoins, you could say that like 1:06:08.740 --> 1:06:13.690 Bitcoin is gold and Tron is like bronze or something 1:06:13.690 --> 1:06:16.060 like that. Like maybe because a lot of people use 1:06:16.060 --> 1:06:20.200 Tron for Stablecoins overseas, maybe it has some utility value 1:06:20.200 --> 1:06:25.090 like aluminum has massive utility value in the world. And 1:06:25.090 --> 1:06:27.460 I'll tell this story and then we'll well, we can 1:06:27.460 --> 1:06:29.680 end it. But like this is the framework of thinking 1:06:29.680 --> 1:06:32.830 that I like to have, even if Ethereum is successful, 1:06:33.040 --> 1:06:35.050 because back in like I think it was the 1800s 1:06:35.050 --> 1:06:38.650 when they first discovered like aluminum, it was a lighter, 1:06:38.650 --> 1:06:41.860 stronger metal metal than gold, and it was like shinier. 1:06:41.980 --> 1:06:47.640 So they found aluminum. People had this crazy FOMO bubble 1:06:47.640 --> 1:06:50.160 over aluminum and they started buying it up and it 1:06:50.160 --> 1:06:53.040 went up, like in the value of aluminum went crazy. 1:06:53.460 --> 1:06:55.710 It got so bad. It got so bad. This bubble 1:06:55.710 --> 1:07:01.470 that Napoleon had a set of gold silverware and aluminum silverware. 1:07:01.740 --> 1:07:04.650 And when the esteemed guests would come over for dinner, 1:07:04.980 --> 1:07:08.160 they would be served on the aluminum silverware. And then 1:07:08.160 --> 1:07:10.830 the children would get the gold silverware to eat with. 1:07:11.430 --> 1:07:14.160 And people were just like, buying stakes in aluminum mines 1:07:14.160 --> 1:07:17.550 and all this stuff. Then what happened was the Industrial Revolution, 1:07:17.760 --> 1:07:21.419 they realized that aluminum could be manufactured in mind and like, 1:07:21.420 --> 1:07:24.340 you know, purified and stuff at a much cheaper cost. 1:07:24.340 --> 1:07:26.010 And the tons of it, they started being able to 1:07:26.010 --> 1:07:29.130 dig lower and they found more of it. So the 1:07:29.190 --> 1:07:33.930 price of aluminum cratered against gold because eventually people got 1:07:33.930 --> 1:07:37.050 back into the same reality that, like gold, has certain 1:07:37.050 --> 1:07:40.560 properties as a commodity, whatever a property, a metal that 1:07:40.560 --> 1:07:43.590 you can't replicate with other things. And even if the 1:07:43.590 --> 1:07:46.050 aluminum which ended up in the war in World War 1:07:46.050 --> 1:07:50.280 Two became the most used metal in World War Two, 1:07:50.280 --> 1:07:52.920 like it was used for tanks and weapons and buildings 1:07:52.920 --> 1:07:57.900 and everything, aluminum became extremely important as a useful thing. 1:07:57.910 --> 1:08:01.140 It had utility value, but that didn't mean that the 1:08:01.140 --> 1:08:05.010 price of aluminum skyrocketed. It was like the most used 1:08:05.010 --> 1:08:08.250 thing in terms of like a medal in history and 1:08:08.340 --> 1:08:11.280 during World War Two. But you don't invest in aluminum. 1:08:11.550 --> 1:08:14.310 So I like to think about Bitcoin as digital gold. 1:08:14.550 --> 1:08:17.640 And even if Etherium gets to like the promises of 1:08:17.640 --> 1:08:21.570 old Defi, you know, Defi becomes the number one way 1:08:21.570 --> 1:08:24.630 to settle on the world. And all the derivatives markets 1:08:24.689 --> 1:08:26.879 move from Wall Street and they go on and there's 1:08:26.880 --> 1:08:30.660 quadrillions of dollars of a volume happening on Ethereum Defi. 1:08:30.960 --> 1:08:34.380 That doesn't mean that the East token is a better 1:08:34.410 --> 1:08:38.190 version of Bitcoin. That means it's digital aluminum, so it 1:08:38.189 --> 1:08:41.460 can have massive use and still be like going down 1:08:41.460 --> 1:08:42.060 in price. 1:08:42.689 --> 1:08:45.030 And you can learn more about aluminum on Twitter at 1:08:45.030 --> 1:08:48.300 aluminum can, but you can learn more about bread mills 1:08:48.300 --> 1:08:50.460 at bread mills can on Twitter. 1:08:50.460 --> 1:08:52.230 How's that? And here's a can. 1:08:52.470 --> 1:08:53.180 Has a camera. 1:08:53.250 --> 1:08:54.040 That I want to. 1:08:54.360 --> 1:08:55.800 I got my bronze mug here. 1:08:55.860 --> 1:08:58.230 Oh, that's very nice. So how you know, I remember 1:08:58.229 --> 1:09:00.180 we were talking about this when crypto was at its 1:09:00.180 --> 1:09:04.020 all time highs and everything. Like, wasn't it like 130 1:09:04.020 --> 1:09:07.850 different projects were worth $1,000,000,000 or more? It was crazy. 1:09:07.860 --> 1:09:10.110 I don't even remember how many. Now it's 44 of 1:09:10.110 --> 1:09:13.559 them are. And I remember right, I was gauging that, 1:09:13.920 --> 1:09:16.320 you know, in the other markets, like, all right. Is 1:09:16.380 --> 1:09:19.080 coming back and look and see because they got down 1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:22.950 to I think well in the in the barest of 1:09:22.950 --> 1:09:25.980 the bears where there was only like maybe six that 1:09:25.979 --> 1:09:29.040 were $1,000,000,000 company in 2018 or something. 19. 1:09:29.040 --> 1:09:31.980 Well you think like who who propped those markets up. 1:09:31.979 --> 1:09:33.839 Who pumped those coins up that high. 1:09:34.920 --> 1:09:36.300 It was it was Trump. 1:09:37.140 --> 1:09:37.590 Trump. 1:09:37.620 --> 1:09:38.610 Every day. Trump did. 1:09:38.610 --> 1:09:39.960 It. Trump did it. Thanks. 1:09:39.960 --> 1:09:41.400 TRUMP Thank you. 1:09:41.640 --> 1:09:44.219 Trump just sent a missile into Poland. That was him 1:09:44.220 --> 1:09:45.599 as well. And he did everything. 1:09:45.870 --> 1:09:46.379 That did. 1:09:46.450 --> 1:09:46.769 Trump. 1:09:47.520 --> 1:09:48.450 After he actually crashed. 1:09:48.840 --> 1:09:51.420 So Trump did. FDX Yeah, well, that. 1:09:51.420 --> 1:09:51.720 Alone. 1:09:52.380 --> 1:09:54.870 Is to blame for everything. So, listen, you. 1:09:54.880 --> 1:09:57.269 Got to think, though, that like the people that pumped 1:09:57.270 --> 1:10:00.120 all these coins to the billion market cap, they're losing 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:01.950 all their money right now. Yeah. And they're going to 1:10:01.950 --> 1:10:05.189 make the decision very soon, if not now, to pull 1:10:05.189 --> 1:10:08.280 out and to pull their liquidity and stop pumping all 1:10:08.280 --> 1:10:11.700 the real money into all this fake money. Michael Saylor 1:10:11.700 --> 1:10:13.830 calls them air tokens. He's been doing that lately. And 1:10:13.830 --> 1:10:16.740 it's kind of a fun analogy because literally they're just 1:10:16.740 --> 1:10:19.920 built on air and all these crypto traders and investors 1:10:19.920 --> 1:10:22.469 are off on the risk cliff. You know, it's not 1:10:22.470 --> 1:10:25.260 a risk curve. It's a risk Cliff, because you get 1:10:25.260 --> 1:10:28.950 off like Wiley Coyote, you're running off off the risk 1:10:28.950 --> 1:10:31.559 cliff and you're sitting on air grabbing all these tokens 1:10:31.560 --> 1:10:35.820 and thinking they're investments. You look down and there's nothing 1:10:35.820 --> 1:10:36.540 there and. 1:10:36.540 --> 1:10:39.929 You just somehow get them never dies. He plummets, he 1:10:39.930 --> 1:10:42.900 barely is wounded and he comes back and does it 1:10:42.900 --> 1:10:44.939 again and again and again, just. 1:10:44.939 --> 1:10:47.700 Like Brad Mills doing it again on the Bad Crypto podcast. 1:10:48.000 --> 1:10:51.690 Yeah. Brad, go ahead and pimp yourself for a moment 1:10:51.689 --> 1:10:54.390 and tell people what you're what you're into, where they 1:10:54.390 --> 1:10:56.490 can find you, share websites, whatever. 1:10:56.729 --> 1:11:00.300 Honestly, you know, like I think the number one thing 1:11:00.300 --> 1:11:03.740 for your listeners I would really like if anybody just 1:11:03.960 --> 1:11:07.170 got saved from Celsius or whatever from the last episode 1:11:07.170 --> 1:11:11.010 or whatever, like I would just really appreciate people take 1:11:11.010 --> 1:11:14.760 a serious look at like learning more about Bitcoin. And 1:11:14.760 --> 1:11:18.090 the best resource for that is actually Preston Pierce's podcast. 1:11:18.960 --> 1:11:22.740 He runs a podcast. He runs the Investor Network. It 1:11:22.740 --> 1:11:25.559 started off as a macro podcast talking about the the 1:11:25.560 --> 1:11:28.470 stock markets and value investing, things like that. And then 1:11:28.470 --> 1:11:31.589 he started getting into Bitcoin. He created the mayor multiple 1:11:31.590 --> 1:11:36.930 and he's been my favorite Bitcoin commentator since. So don't, 1:11:36.930 --> 1:11:38.870 you know, don't follow me or pay attention to me, 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:42.930 just like start learning more about bitcoin and follow Preston 1:11:42.930 --> 1:11:47.309 Fisher's podcast. Follow him on. On Twitter and. That would 1:11:47.310 --> 1:11:48.270 that would make me feel good. 1:11:48.300 --> 1:11:50.910 There it is right there. That's very humble of you, sir. 1:11:50.939 --> 1:11:54.479 The investors podcast dot com. For those of you watching 1:11:54.479 --> 1:11:59.430 and Travis, I think that irony would dictate that we 1:11:59.430 --> 1:12:02.700 should commemorate this episode with an NFT, don't you? 1:12:03.810 --> 1:12:05.840 Hey, don't be a pitch. Tired of that. 1:12:06.870 --> 1:12:12.150 So we'll talk about that here. And Brad. There's the dollar. 1:12:12.180 --> 1:12:12.750 What about it? 1:12:12.900 --> 1:12:13.650 No leader. 1:12:15.750 --> 1:12:16.680 It's my energy. 1:12:17.220 --> 1:12:19.320 Related nodes of Bitcoin. That's nice. 1:12:19.410 --> 1:12:23.860 These are my big. These are Bitcoin. Nfts. They're. Their 1:12:23.860 --> 1:12:25.540 physical pieces of art. They're not really. 1:12:25.540 --> 1:12:29.260 Actors. I love the really cool Bitcoin, excellent and physical art. 1:12:29.800 --> 1:12:33.790 We appreciate you and I'm sure that we will have 1:12:33.790 --> 1:12:34.809 you back again. 1:12:34.840 --> 1:12:35.800 Thanks again, guys. 1:12:36.490 --> 1:12:38.290 Now, it's actually bad every time we talk to you, 1:12:38.290 --> 1:12:40.150 it's shitty news, so we don't ever want to talk 1:12:40.150 --> 1:12:40.630 to you again. 1:12:43.150 --> 1:12:47.620 So, Trav, you know, you just reminded me that Jimmy Song, 1:12:47.620 --> 1:12:50.439 who was a recent guest on this show, had a 1:12:50.439 --> 1:12:52.810 lot of negative things to say about an. He went 1:12:52.810 --> 1:12:55.450 on an epic rant. Do you remember that? 1:12:55.870 --> 1:12:58.000 Yeah, I was a it was a it was a 1:12:58.000 --> 1:13:01.690 legendary rant. And it was funny cause we're like, yeah, 1:13:01.689 --> 1:13:03.759 we can debate him. And I debated him on some 1:13:03.760 --> 1:13:06.400 staff and he just was just he just steamrolled on 1:13:06.400 --> 1:13:09.250 it is like, so bullshit. So bullshit is bullshit. So 1:13:09.250 --> 1:13:13.600 bitcoin goes God bullshit. Everything else is bullshit. Beautiful shithole. Joel, 1:13:13.600 --> 1:13:17.890 your Bushwick. You're not as much bullshit, but the bullshit too, right? Wow. 1:13:17.900 --> 1:13:21.280 So I found it. It was actually it was right 1:13:21.280 --> 1:13:25.060 around the time we interviewed Brad. This, you know, episode 1:13:25.060 --> 1:13:29.700 was Nfts or a scam. It was April 10th of 2022. 1:13:29.710 --> 1:13:32.170 So if you want to go back and it looks 1:13:32.170 --> 1:13:34.900 like we do have video of it as well, right? 1:13:34.960 --> 1:13:36.610 Okay. Wow, that's a big or. 1:13:37.360 --> 1:13:40.330 That could make a great little NFT as well of 1:13:40.330 --> 1:13:41.860 him ranting on NFT is. 1:13:42.610 --> 1:13:45.640 Oh yeah, it was funny. He went to town all right. 1:13:45.640 --> 1:13:49.150 Only Jimmy Song can do a Jimmy Song ran a 1:13:49.150 --> 1:13:51.220 train on a song. So. 1:13:51.790 --> 1:13:53.710 You know, Brad has a lot to say. Hopefully you 1:13:53.710 --> 1:13:56.530 guys follow him on Twitter at Brad Mills can. By 1:13:56.530 --> 1:14:01.629 the way this report Elon is starting to release the 1:14:01.990 --> 1:14:04.960 people who have been suspended. And it's it's a variety. 1:14:04.960 --> 1:14:08.110 He's like looking at them and deciding case by case. 1:14:08.110 --> 1:14:11.740 But Jordan Peterson is back. The Babylon bee is back. 1:14:11.950 --> 1:14:15.790 And although I'm not a fan of her, I don't 1:14:15.790 --> 1:14:18.639 think that she should be banned. Kathy Griffin is back. 1:14:18.850 --> 1:14:23.170 And so it's funny there is that it's crazy. But 1:14:23.170 --> 1:14:29.240 he's he's let go 99.6% of the workforce has left 1:14:29.500 --> 1:14:32.559 basically 50 of the top because you don't need that 1:14:32.560 --> 1:14:35.230 many employees. He's got the best of the best. I 1:14:35.229 --> 1:14:40.180 read this thread about how he's gone through and basically 1:14:40.180 --> 1:14:43.690 let people self-identify as who are the ones who kick 1:14:43.700 --> 1:14:46.840 ass and who are the ones who talk shit and 1:14:46.840 --> 1:14:48.670 who are the ones who don't do shit, and the 1:14:48.670 --> 1:14:51.100 ones that don't do shit and talk shit were the 1:14:51.100 --> 1:14:54.100 loudest and then the ones that do shit. He saw 1:14:54.100 --> 1:14:56.620 that he kept all of them. And so I think 1:14:56.620 --> 1:14:59.530 what we're going to see is those people are going 1:14:59.530 --> 1:15:01.870 to be all on them. Then he's going to start 1:15:01.870 --> 1:15:06.040 hiring good people. And because really when you have really good, 1:15:06.040 --> 1:15:08.620 productive people who know what the hell they're doing, these 1:15:08.620 --> 1:15:12.430 other people really slow them down, right? And so let 1:15:12.430 --> 1:15:14.770 them be part of the hiring and of great people 1:15:14.770 --> 1:15:17.380 later on, because I don't think you don't need 8000 1:15:17.380 --> 1:15:20.830 people around Twitter. You need 8000 people. If you're talking 1:15:20.830 --> 1:15:24.220 to every government and wheeling and dealing with every politician. 1:15:24.520 --> 1:15:27.700 But from what I've seen, I catch heard even retweeted it. 1:15:27.700 --> 1:15:30.939 He said 99, it was a Tim Poole tweeted it 1:15:31.180 --> 1:15:35.260 said 99.6% of Twitter people are gone. He's down to 1:15:35.260 --> 1:15:38.590 the 50 very best employees. And now he's going to 1:15:38.590 --> 1:15:40.990 build that from there. Can you imagine if all of 1:15:40.990 --> 1:15:45.009 them were just so shitty? I haven't noticed any decline 1:15:45.010 --> 1:15:48.900 in Twitter yet. No, it's got more funny, actually. 1:15:49.260 --> 1:15:52.770 Yeah. So. And somebody said, Bring back Alex Jones. And 1:15:52.770 --> 1:15:57.360 Ellen responded, No. Which look, I understand why, you know, 1:15:57.360 --> 1:15:59.099 he might not want to bring him back, but free 1:15:59.100 --> 1:16:02.310 speech is free speech. And if you don't let people 1:16:02.310 --> 1:16:04.589 come back, regardless of whether or not you like what 1:16:04.590 --> 1:16:09.320 they say is really free speech. So but he said. 1:16:09.720 --> 1:16:13.049 Cancel the Alex Jones. Now, what's interesting is I paid 1:16:13.050 --> 1:16:17.010 attention to Alex Jones. And, you know, Alex Jones has 1:16:17.010 --> 1:16:20.400 been wrong about a few things. Well, my God, how 1:16:20.400 --> 1:16:22.570 many things have the New York Times been wrong about? 1:16:22.590 --> 1:16:25.630 How many times is MSNBC's been wrong about some. It's 1:16:25.650 --> 1:16:27.689 the very first time I've ever seen somebody be wrong 1:16:27.689 --> 1:16:31.679 about something. And soon for $1,000,000,000. If every time MSNBC 1:16:31.680 --> 1:16:34.860 or Fox News or CNN or some of these guys 1:16:34.860 --> 1:16:37.740 were wrong about something or lying about something, they got 1:16:37.740 --> 1:16:42.570 sued for $1,000,000,000 and they got canceled. I the thing is, 1:16:42.570 --> 1:16:44.970 they go off on him about the thing that happened 1:16:44.970 --> 1:16:49.019 in Connecticut. Right. And the shooting. And because he was 1:16:49.170 --> 1:16:52.440 I remember what he basically said was, yeah, there's it's 1:16:52.439 --> 1:16:55.020 not exactly the story they're telling is not the correct one. 1:16:55.200 --> 1:16:57.480 I don't think he ever said people didn't die, but 1:16:57.650 --> 1:17:00.540 he said the FBI was going in with them. And 1:17:00.840 --> 1:17:01.969 and and now we all. 1:17:02.420 --> 1:17:05.070 Know he owes $1,000,000,000,000 or something ridiculous. 1:17:05.070 --> 1:17:06.660 It's so crazy. Wow. 1:17:06.660 --> 1:17:09.690 Whatever is a crazy times we live in. Thank you 1:17:09.689 --> 1:17:13.650 for joining us and letting us be your Sherpas. Or 1:17:13.650 --> 1:17:16.379 at least I'll being alongside you on this journey because 1:17:16.380 --> 1:17:18.660 that's what the show has always been from from the 1:17:18.660 --> 1:17:22.349 very first episode, it's Travis and Joel's exciting crypto adventure. 1:17:22.530 --> 1:17:25.110 We're still on this adventure five and a half years 1:17:25.110 --> 1:17:30.000 into it. We are the Splunk CRS of What's a 1:17:30.000 --> 1:17:31.170 good s word for. 1:17:31.320 --> 1:17:34.259 I would say this is that you're the Sherpa and 1:17:34.260 --> 1:17:37.400 the drop off of the surface. 1:17:37.660 --> 1:17:43.019 They're telling you to catch the next episode. And of course. 1:18:00.990 --> 1:18:01.710 Who's bad? 1:18:03.500 --> 1:18:07.130 The Bad Crypto podcast is a production of Bad Crypto LLC. 1:18:07.310 --> 1:18:10.040 The content of the show, the videos and the website 1:18:10.040 --> 1:18:14.150 is provided for educational, informational and entertainment purposes only. 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