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Joel Comm: If you'd been paying attention to the guest on today's show,

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Joel Comm: you may have gotten out of Luna or Celsius before

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Joel Comm: they came crumbling down his take on Defi. Back on

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Joel Comm: our April show got our attention. And with the aftershocks

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Joel Comm: of tech still rumbling through the crypto and financial world,

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Joel Comm: we thought we'd invite him back to go deeper down

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Joel Comm: the rabbit hole. What's the next domino to fall and

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Joel Comm: how can you avoid getting burnt? We'll discuss with Brad

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Joel Comm: Mills today on our is all defi B.S. episode number 651.

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Joel Comm: Of the bad crypto podcasts.

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Travis Wright: Five, four, three. How are there all those workers whose bad? I.

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Travis Wright: Is anything even real anymore? I don't know. It's hard

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Travis Wright: to tell. You probably better listen to this podcast to

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Travis Wright: see if what you think you know is even right

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Travis Wright: at all. Is all defi doomed? Is it bullshit? What?

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Travis Wright: How do we even know this guy in the past

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Travis Wright: has called several of them pretty correctly called Luna. How

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Travis Wright: you got there? He said he probably better get out Celsius. Hey,

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Travis Wright: you probably after is looking like a bunch of bullshit. Hmm.

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Travis Wright: We had to.

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Joel Comm: Invite them back. Yeah, we had to bring him back again. He's.

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Joel Comm: He's got a lot of content. Many words were excited

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Joel Comm: to talk about him. And we've got a bonus segment

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Joel Comm: that is not in the show where he's going to

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Joel Comm: give his take on Nfts. We want to give that NFT.

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Joel Comm: We want to give that clip to you in the

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Joel Comm: form of an NFT for free. We'll tell you how

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Joel Comm: you can get it here. After the interview, by the way.

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Joel Comm: Welcome to the Bad Crypto podcast. I'm Joel Klein. Thank you.

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Travis Wright: Thank you, Joel. I was excited to show up today.

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Joel Comm: Yeah, it's good. It's good that you're here.

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Travis Wright: I'm here. You're here. And if you don't have the

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Travis Wright: nifty club right there, you need to go do it.

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Travis Wright: You can go to bad crypto dot uncut dot FM

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Travis Wright: and get one. It's like .002 if it's very low,

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Travis Wright: because we want to just, you know, we didn't want

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Travis Wright: the boss to grab a bunch because that's how they roll.

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Travis Wright: And we're not trying to have fake our numbers in anything.

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Travis Wright: We're going to do our drop with the drop in

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Travis Wright: and we're going to start dropping even more cool things

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Travis Wright: in there. So you guys.

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Joel Comm: We've dropped three so far, and I guess we'll tell

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Joel Comm: you about it now instead of after the interview. But

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Joel Comm: you need this bad crypto nifty club membership. Go ahead

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Joel Comm: and grab yours and you're going to need to have

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Joel Comm: this one. Let's see the this episode is dropping on,

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Joel Comm: I believe, Sunday the 20th. So you need to have

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Joel Comm: one of these in your wallet by Thanksgiving Day. And

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Joel Comm: then and then once you've got it, you're entitled to

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Joel Comm: all the free drops that we give as well as

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Joel Comm: other benefits. So far, there have been three drops. Exclusive Nfts.

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Joel Comm: And we want to give you the Brad Mill's bonus NFT.

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Joel Comm: His thoughts on NFT is it's a two minute video

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Joel Comm: clip NFT exclusive for you guys. But let's find out

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Joel Comm: what Brad thinks about everything. But NFT is now in

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Joel Comm: this exclusive interview with him. This is a really rare moment.

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Joel Comm: I think our guest today is the fastest repeat guest

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Joel Comm: we've ever had on this show. Travis, it was May

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Joel Comm: 15th of this year that we had. Brad Mill's on

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Joel Comm: to talk about Stablecoin lunacy, which would have been episode number.

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Joel Comm: Let me consult my notes here. Episode number 608. But

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Joel Comm: there's been so much happening in the crypto world, and

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Joel Comm: I'm going to owe Brad a personal thank you here

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Joel Comm: in a moment. But first I want to welcome him

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Joel Comm: back to Bat Crypto. How are you doing, man?

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Brad Mills: I'm doing all right. Now, as you know, I've got

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Brad Mills: heavy bags of Bitcoin that I'm carrying through the mountain

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Brad Mills: in the storm, but I'm doing all right. Otherwise I

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Brad Mills: expected this. So I'm not surprised by sudden drops in

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Brad Mills: my net worth. I was. I was. I was waiting

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Brad Mills: for it. Just never happy to see it happen, but

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Brad Mills: sucks for all the other people that are, you know,

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Brad Mills: not heeding warnings. And we're stuck in FDX and Celsius

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Brad Mills: and stuff like that. But yeah, thanks for bringing me back.

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Joel Comm: Well, let me start with the the. Thank you. It

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Joel Comm: was having you on the show. I hardly lost anything

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Joel Comm: with USD or low, and I just had little trace

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Joel Comm: amounts in there. I know a lot of people really

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Joel Comm: got hurt, but when you were on the show, we

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Joel Comm: talked about Celsius and some other defi platforms and you

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Joel Comm: raise the red flag over Celsius. And I was like,

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Joel Comm: You know what? I'm going to listen to this guy.

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Joel Comm: And I pulled a substantial amount of money out of

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Joel Comm: stablecoin that I hand Celsius. I think now my account

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Joel Comm: has maybe 25, $30 left in it, and it was

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Joel Comm: two weeks before they locked it down. So. Dom All right.

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Brad Mills: So that's good to hear. I'm glad I helped a

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Brad Mills: couple of people, man. That's good to hear that. That

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Brad Mills: you listen, that was a bunch of people were just

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Brad Mills: kind of. Then you're just a maxy. You just don't

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Brad Mills: like anything about Bitcoin and you're just flooding. So, I mean,

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Brad Mills: that's what happens with tribalism. So people get kind of convinced,

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Brad Mills: you know, that the guy that founded the project is

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Brad Mills: good and they would never scam and but yeah, no,

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Brad Mills: thanks for that. That means a lot that I helped

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Brad Mills: you and I got a couple of texts from friends

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Brad Mills: as well that, you know, one of my friends had

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Brad Mills: a think it was he said he had put $1,000,000

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Brad Mills: into Celsius. He's an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur friend of mine

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Brad Mills: that it's sold his business. And I was like, Dude,

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Brad Mills: get that out. Like it's not worth the risk. And

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Brad Mills: he did. He took it out, thankfully. And another friend

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Brad Mills: who's a a Bitcoin kind of like he's like a

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Brad Mills: fund manager type of guy for $10 million in Celsius. And,

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Brad Mills: and I mean, that's that's a significant amount of money, right?

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Brad Mills: So he was initially skeptical to take it out. He

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Brad Mills: was saying things like, well, the Ontario or the Quebec

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Brad Mills: pension fund did due diligence on Celsius. They wouldn't have

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Brad Mills: invested institutional money if this wasn't a safe platform. And

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Brad Mills: I was just thinking, man, like, you know, Bernie Madoff

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Brad Mills: was the chairman of Nasdaq for many years. He ran

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Brad Mills: a successful Ponzi scheme. Institutional investors are just as dumb

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Brad Mills: as the rest of us when it comes to FOMO.

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Brad Mills: They just that the greed and the the the relationship

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Brad Mills: kind of clout you want to be able to get

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Brad Mills: to associate with somebody that's on fire and on a

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Brad Mills: rocket ship. It clouds judgment. And thankfully, after a little

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Brad Mills: bit of cajoling me and a couple of friends and

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Brad Mills: convincing him he took his money off, too. So it's

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Brad Mills: we've definitely heard stories of people that we've helped the

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Brad Mills: Bitcoin Maxis have helped people get out. So I'm glad

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Brad Mills: that you were able to get out. You weren't hurt

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Brad Mills: by that.

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Travis Wright: Look at all the millions that you have saved people.

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Travis Wright: I mean, that's great, right in itself. So we know

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Travis Wright: FCX is a big W what what FCX what just

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Travis Wright: went on. We've talked about it. We saw that it happened.

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Travis Wright: I don't know how deep we want to go in

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Travis Wright: that right now. What do we want to do we

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Travis Wright: want to go into and talk about or you know,

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Travis Wright: I think we.

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Joel Comm: Could talk a little bit about it. But you you

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Joel Comm: warned about this as well, right? When when were you

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Joel Comm: talking about FCX?

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Brad Mills: And yeah, I mean.

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Joel Comm: The red flag.

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Brad Mills: Back back in January when I started first paying attention

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Brad Mills: to the large growth in defi Ponzi schemes like Ohm Protocol,

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Brad Mills: Wonderland Protocol, Terra Luna. I started to realize that this

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Brad Mills: massive bubble was going to blow up the same as

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Brad Mills: that as other bubbles and Ponzi in the traditional markets

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Brad Mills: have before, because they've basically just rebuilt everything that was

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Brad Mills: toxic and over leveraged nonsense from the traditional markets in crypto.

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Brad Mills: And they called it innovation and they put it on

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Brad Mills: a blockchain and called it Defi. Well, it doesn't take

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Brad Mills: like a lot of digging to start to realize it's unsustainable,

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Brad Mills: like to be able to get that kind of yield, ten, 20%

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Brad Mills: yield when we're at like historically low interest rates in

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Brad Mills: traditional markets, something risky, extremely risky is going on there.

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Brad Mills: And every time that there was a huge hack like

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Brad Mills: the Wormhole Bridge got hacked or there was a problem

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Brad Mills: with the Luna, the Luna, you know, exit door, the

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Brad Mills: protocol only had a certain amount of liquidity for you

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Brad Mills: to get out to to burn the USD tokens and

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Brad Mills: turn it back into Luna and then sell the Luna

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Brad Mills: like there's only so much liquidity. And as these things

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Brad Mills: grow so big, they just become unsustainable. And FTI actually

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Brad Mills: Alameda through your capital jump, which is another one that

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Brad Mills: still hasn't gone down yet, that's at risk of it.

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Brad Mills: And a bunch of other big huge VC firms like

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Brad Mills: Paradigm and A16z and all these like bellwether VC brands.

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Brad Mills: I mean, they're all kind of doing all this to

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Brad Mills: Jenner and stuff and bailing out all these hacks that

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Brad Mills: always happen in Defi and trying to provide liquidity into

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Brad Mills: the system like a central bank does. And we saw

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Brad Mills: this at the turn of the century in the 1920s

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Brad Mills: when the stock market sort of when the big panic happened,

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Brad Mills: the stock market crash, there was a lot of risky

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Brad Mills: overleverage nonsense happening and JPMorgan would go around and like

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Brad Mills: actually give cash to pensions and insurance funds and banks

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Brad Mills: to try to keep the wheels greased so that, you know,

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Brad Mills: you don't see liquidity lock ups because when you see

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Brad Mills: the liquidity lock up. That's when you run into big

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Brad Mills: problems because people start to panic and they have fear

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Brad Mills: and then they start to pull their money out and

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Brad Mills: that's when you get a run on the bank. So

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Brad Mills: you have this like huge growth of people just thinking

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Brad Mills: they're so smart and they're investing all their money, they're

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Brad Mills: making tons of money, and then a bunch of retail

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Brad Mills: gets sucked in because they see their they see the

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Brad Mills: FOMO of all these returns that everybody else are making.

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Brad Mills: So the retail players come in, they're not as sophisticated.

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Brad Mills: And then there's all this like reputation sort of osmosis

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Brad Mills: that happens where somebody wants to invest in this superstar

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Brad Mills: because they want to be associated with them and they

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Brad Mills: don't necessarily do any due diligence. So they don't they

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Brad Mills: don't they say like, oh, well, so-and-so is in, so

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Brad Mills: I don't need to do my due diligence. You know,

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Brad Mills: A16z is and I don't need to do my due diligence.

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Brad Mills: They already did it. We're just going to we're just

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Brad Mills: going to jump into this rocket ship. So then you

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Brad Mills: get into this situation where it just grows too big

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Brad Mills: and it's all unsustainable. So back in January, you started

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Brad Mills: to see like these these guys that were really trying

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Brad Mills: to act like the central bankers of all this defi

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Brad Mills: and crypto lending and yield farming and all that stuff,

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Brad Mills: bailing out to the tune of hundreds of millions of

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Brad Mills: dollars of well, like every month Jump Capital had to

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Brad Mills: bail out the wormhole bridge for 300 million FDX Alameda

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Brad Mills: 3 hours capital like all these guys were each kind

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Brad Mills: of doing these bailouts and it was hundreds of millions

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Brad Mills: of dollars every time it was happening. And even in

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Brad Mills: the case of Luna, it was to the tune of,

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Brad Mills: I think, two or 3 billion, wasn't it, that they

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Brad Mills: announced they were going to put up to. Yes. For

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Brad Mills: the LFG.

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Travis Wright: Yeah. So I got I got a question around that though.

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Travis Wright: So would you say that pretty much all defi at

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Travis Wright: this point is a scam? Because when I first saw Defi,

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Travis Wright: I was like, do I just not understand this or

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Travis Wright: does this kind of seem like a Ponzi? They're literally

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Travis Wright: printing money from nowhere. And so I was always like,

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Travis Wright: What the hell's the deal on that? I never fully

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Travis Wright: got it. I didn't think unless it just seems like

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Travis Wright: it's maybe a scam.

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Brad Mills: Well, I do believe that it's built on unethical foundation,

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Brad Mills: an unethical foundation, and like a sort of a Griffey

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Brad Mills: insider game. Whale whale game that most of crypto is

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Brad Mills: actually where they they see the reason why jump and

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Brad Mills: a16z and all these folks will bail out defi and

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Brad Mills: crypto companies and stuff because they own massive bags of

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Brad Mills: tokens and they are also providing liquidity and making the

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Brad Mills: markets and they can, they can use this meteoric success

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Brad Mills: of the irrational idea that you can just print a

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Brad Mills: token and then market make it on your exchange or

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Brad Mills: put in a hundred or $200 million of liquidity in

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Brad Mills: a defi protocol and say that that's valuable. I mean,

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Brad Mills: SBF himself described this back in April, May as basically

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Brad Mills: a black box Ponzi scam when he was talking to

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Brad Mills: Joe Weisenthal on an odd lot. And I mean, they

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Brad Mills: were very surprised that he acknowledged that like what they

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Brad Mills: had built was basically Ponzi scams. And SBF at the

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Brad Mills: time said something critical. He said, If the world decides

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Brad Mills: that what we did was okay, then you guys are wrong,

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Brad Mills: you know, by saying by judging that this is not

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Brad Mills: ethical and it's not right and it's illegal and it's

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Brad Mills: a Ponzi scheme, but if the world decides in a

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Brad Mills: coordinated way that what we did was wrong, then we're

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Brad Mills: going to be in trouble. So so they were all

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Brad Mills: of these guys were clearly aware that what they were doing,

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Brad Mills: this whole foundation of defi yield farming daos nft, like

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Brad Mills: all this stuff that they use to pump coins and

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Brad Mills: just call it web3, it's no different than the last

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Brad Mills: cycle that we all saw happen, which is ICOs and

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Brad Mills: master node coins giving you yield and all this stuff.

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Brad Mills: It got disproven. The SEC came out and said that

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Brad Mills: this is not in compliance, but the idea that you

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Brad Mills: could just do it with smart contracts, you know, instead

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Brad Mills: of people and companies issuing tokens, it's like, oh, a

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Brad Mills: smart contract is issuing the tokens, but we're just going

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Brad Mills: to preeminent with our huge billion dollars of liquidity that

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Brad Mills: we just plop into the defi protocol. So the form

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Brad Mills: of defi that got built on crypto is extremely risky,

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Brad Mills: mostly unethical grift that just gets VCs and insiders rich

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Brad Mills: because they're the ones that preeminent and they're the ones

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Brad Mills: that have the massive pools of liquidity to put in

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Brad Mills: to get all the tokens out. And then what does.

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Joel Comm: This mean then too, to Ethereum? What do you you know,

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Joel Comm: what what are your thoughts on Vitalik and Ethereum and

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Joel Comm: the whole RC 20 and all of the protocols? I

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Joel Comm: know what you think about NFT. She told us about

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Joel Comm: that last time, but let's just go right to the,

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Joel Comm: you know, the root of it.

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Brad Mills: Well, so, so to, to kind of like answer the

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Brad Mills: first question. I never fully got to the end of

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Brad Mills: like it is all related and it's kind of confusing.

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Brad Mills: You got to you got to draw one of those

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Brad Mills: like conspiracy maps out on the board and like, put

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Brad Mills: all the pins together to sort of connect this narrative

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Brad Mills: in this logic. Summing it up, you asked, like, was

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Brad Mills: it obvious that FDX was going to come down? And

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Brad Mills: I described the the foundation that this whole thing was

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Brad Mills: built on and how that enabled extreme risk taking and

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Brad Mills: suspension of logic to be able to value something like

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Brad Mills: an FTT token and in the multimillions tens of billions

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Brad Mills: of of range. And there's lots of examples of that.

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Brad Mills: It's not just FTT token, there's lots of tokens that

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Brad Mills: are just. Michael Saylor's been calling them air tokens. You know,

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Brad Mills: they're just, they're just full of hot air. And it

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Brad Mills: really is kind of insidious because the VCs hold bags

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Brad Mills: of it. The VCs are the liquidity pool providers, and

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Brad Mills: the traders work with the VCs to do market making

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Brad Mills: and mark the price up and keep the price as high.

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Brad Mills: So they do that and then they borrow against the tokens.

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Brad Mills: That's the worst part. They borrow against them and use

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Brad Mills: them as collateral, borrow against them, and then go pump

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Brad Mills: more stuff in Defi and crypto. They just go.

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Joel Comm: I have to follow up to that because you're mentioning

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Joel Comm: that there's you know, there's others. You know, let's go

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Joel Comm: ahead issue the warning, in your opinion, as we look

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Joel Comm: at Defi here in Coingecko, you know which of these

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Joel Comm: coins have the biggest red flag for you.

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Brad Mills: So. The way that I see that this contagion continuing

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Brad Mills: to play out is not necessarily. A specific coin right

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Brad Mills: now that's going to go down. I think if anybody

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Brad Mills: lived through the bear market of 2018 and 2019 and

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Brad Mills: maybe even participated in the soft market where people in 2017,

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Brad Mills: the soft market was like super hot, like Telegram ICO,

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Brad Mills: for example, was this really exclusive ICO that, you know,

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Brad Mills: they had raised a couple billion dollars from private investors

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Brad Mills: and a lot of the crypto funds and crypto traders

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Brad Mills: were just really wanted to get a piece of the

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Brad Mills: telegram ICO.

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Travis Wright: I would also say this is that in that time

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Travis Wright: there's not a lot you could do with your theory, right?

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Travis Wright: If you had a theory of what you could do

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Travis Wright: with it, why you could trade it and use it

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Travis Wright: to buy some things, but it was mostly participate in ICOs.

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Travis Wright: There wasn't a whole lot of stuff you could do

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Travis Wright: with your theory. And yet in 2017, 18.

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Brad Mills: Well, so. So we're back. We're in that we're in

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Brad Mills: that cycle where Etherium was. Pumped from what was a

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Brad Mills: $10 to 1400 dollars or something like that in 2017.

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Brad Mills: January 2018 was the peak, and that's based on the

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Brad Mills: back of the whole dapp. NFT CryptoKitties was the first one,

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Brad Mills: but Dapps and Nfts and ICOs, that was really what

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Brad Mills: drove a lot of FOMO into the Ethereum token because

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Brad Mills: you had to go buy Ethereum to go buy an

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Brad Mills: ICO or to use, you know, CryptoKitties. And that was

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Brad Mills: really what drove the demand for Etherium along with just

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Brad Mills: general crypto FOMO, because when Bitcoin goes up, you have this,

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Brad Mills: this like rising tides thing because the regulators hadn't given

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Brad Mills: clear guidance as to what these things all are. So

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Brad Mills: in 2017, there was no clear guidance that like maybe

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Brad Mills: a theory and was a security and there was risk there.

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Brad Mills: Maybe Ripple's a security, maybe 90% of the stuff is

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Brad Mills: securities and they shouldn't be traded on regulated exchanges. There

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Brad Mills: was no clear guidance yet. So the thing went crazy.

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Brad Mills: And then what happened through 2018 and 2019. People started

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Brad Mills: to reel while the SEC started coming out with clear

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Brad Mills: guidance that you couldn't do unregistered securities offerings. They announced

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Brad Mills: that the Dow was a security, the original Dow was

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Brad Mills: a security, and the original Ethereum ICO was the securities offering.

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Brad Mills: They didn't make any specific concrete statements as to whether

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Brad Mills: or not it was a security currently, but they clearly

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Brad Mills: said that if you're doing an unregistered ICO thing, you're

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Brad Mills: not in compliance with securities laws and that the original

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Brad Mills: sale of Ethereum was a security and then Bitcoin was

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Brad Mills: not because it wasn't sold to anybody. So bitcoin's the

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Brad Mills: only sort of real decentralized property that exists in the

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Brad Mills: crypto space. And so that's where you were in 2017

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Brad Mills: and 2018 and 19 after the SEC came out with

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Brad Mills: their statements. It took a good year for people to realize,

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Brad Mills: wait a second, this market's done like Ethereum's going down

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Brad Mills: for a long time. Crypto is just going to go cratered.

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Brad Mills: It's either going to go -95% or to zero in

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Brad Mills: most cases, because people that had all this FOMO to

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Brad Mills: try to get SAFT that they had missed in the

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Brad Mills: bull run. They were buying things still at about this time,

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Brad Mills: say October, November 2018, which is about exactly where we

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Brad Mills: are in the timeline of this bear market, where at

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Brad Mills: October we're in November 2022, which is very much the

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Brad Mills: same as November 2018. People started realizing, Wait a second,

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Brad Mills: maybe I shouldn't be buying softs for these hot ICOs

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Brad Mills: that I couldn't afford or couldn't get access to in

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Brad Mills: 2017 at a at a 50% 60% discount. Maybe I'm

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Brad Mills: actually burning my money. And what I should be doing

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Brad Mills: is selling everything and going into Bitcoin or just taking

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Brad Mills: my money back. If you're not convicted enough on Bitcoin

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Brad Mills: to hold it like just, just go back into dollars

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Brad Mills: and leave because everybody had the hope them and the

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Brad Mills: fuel of all that excitement and all the money that

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Brad Mills: they were making in the in the bubble. And they

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Brad Mills: never reconciled it until probably mid, you know, like early 2019,

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Brad Mills: people started realizing like the SEC is not backing down

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Brad Mills: from all these non-compliant ICOs and all this stuff is way,

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Brad Mills: way overvalued. So all these all these people that that

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Brad Mills: used to buy ICOs and like, you know, there was

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Brad Mills: Dexs back then. Ether Delta was a popular dex. Bancor

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Brad Mills: was a popular dex. People were using ether. There was

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Brad Mills: lots of pairs you could trade against. There was a

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Brad Mills: kyber network and zero protocol. Like there was a whole

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Brad Mills: bunch of defi stuff that was built back then and

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Brad Mills: people were using these for it, but it still didn't

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Brad Mills: prevent the absolute carnage in the markets. In 2019, as

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Brad Mills: people started to realize that all this stuff was not

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Brad Mills: in compliance and, you know, it was like a liquidity

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Brad Mills: squeeze and everybody just wanted liquidity. That's what the story

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Brad Mills: of 2009 was. Everybody just wanted liquidity. So the bid

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Brad Mills: for SAFT just completely disappeared. There was a bunch of

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Brad Mills: funds that went bankrupt and then a bunch of saft

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Brad Mills: got dumped onto the market and people were just realizing, Wait,

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Brad Mills: everybody's trying to get their money back. A bunch of

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Brad Mills: these ICO projects were just selling their ease to get

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Brad Mills: back the dollars because the price of ether's cratering. It

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Brad Mills: was down like 60% or 70%. So it was a

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Brad Mills: game of chicken where the ICOs that had raised hundreds

388
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Brad Mills: of millions of dollars realized we were going to have

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Brad Mills: to fund our projects. And if it keeps going down,

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Brad Mills: we need to sell. At the beginning, in the in

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Brad Mills: the rah raw bull market, everybody was thinking like, I

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Brad Mills: won't sell if you won't sell, because if we all

393
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Brad Mills: hold our ETH, it's going to go up in price

394
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Brad Mills: and then we'll all be on the moon, right? But

395
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Brad Mills: as the bear market grinded on slowly, it was just

396
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Brad Mills: nothing but like negative negative pressures and contagion from people

397
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Brad Mills: realizing they have to sell all that ETH treasury and

398
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Brad Mills: there's really nothing you can do with ETHE in the

399
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Brad Mills: ICO markets. And the SEC shut down ether Delta. They

400
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Brad Mills: find the founder and they made them shut it down.

401
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Brad Mills: So it was clear like they came out and stated

402
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Brad Mills: like these decentralized exchanges are not in compliance because all

403
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Brad Mills: they do is enable a run on registered securities trading.

404
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Brad Mills: So we like we had a.

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Travis Wright: Going to leave that we got to leave that for

406
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Travis Wright: the for the real criminals in in capital at.

407
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Brad Mills: Wall Street.

408
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Travis Wright: Yeah yeah wild street on Capitol Hill. We got to

409
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Travis Wright: leave that to them.

410
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Brad Mills: Well, look, part of it is that they had you know,

411
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Brad Mills: and this is not it's not bad to acknowledge this

412
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Brad Mills: like they have a monopoly, a monopoly on money laundering

413
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Brad Mills: and crime in the traditional banking system. I mean, so

414
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Brad Mills: you think about it like they have such a stranglehold.

415
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Brad Mills: They have law on their side. They have the guns. Right.

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Brad Mills: They are not just going to sit by and allow

417
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Brad Mills: token creators and VCs in Silicon Valley and, you know,

418
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Brad Mills: quant devs over in the Bahamas to be able to

419
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Brad Mills: just like take over the business and decentralize them and

420
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Brad Mills: disintermediate Wall Street and Capitol Hill, they're not going to

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Brad Mills: allow that. So obviously they're going to use the SEC,

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Brad Mills: they're going to use the the DOJ and the FATF

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Brad Mills: regulations and FinCEN and all these regulators that they already

424
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Brad Mills: have put in place to to sort of keep their

425
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Brad Mills: control of everything. They're going to use it and. So

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Brad Mills: the way that, like, you know, all this was a

427
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Brad Mills: nonsense bubble. In 2017, we realized it. We saw the

428
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Brad Mills: flush out in 2018, 19. Everybody learned lessons. Well, what

429
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Brad Mills: happens in 2020? You know, the Federal Reserve starts pumping

430
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Brad Mills: trillions of dollars into the markets, keeps interest rates lower

431
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Brad Mills: than they've ever been in history. And then and like

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Brad Mills: the regulators just stand back and think that because they

433
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Brad Mills: made all these statements before, they're not going to have

434
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Brad Mills: to deal with crypto anymore because it's all dead. Andreessen

435
00:24:05,490 --> 00:24:08,730
Brad Mills: Horowitz and all these big VC firm start just basically

436
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Brad Mills: was trading and pumping money into into this new thing

437
00:24:12,420 --> 00:24:16,650
Brad Mills: that they called liquidity mining or yield farming. They created

438
00:24:16,650 --> 00:24:20,189
Brad Mills: this yield farming concept in 2020. And so they piled

439
00:24:20,490 --> 00:24:22,439
Brad Mills: hundreds of millions of dollars. And this is where the

440
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,120
Brad Mills: Alameda team, like the FDX team, started to really shine

441
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,840
Brad Mills: because they were like first in that Ponzi. And they

442
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,320
Brad Mills: created their own like they created the Solana blockchain with

443
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,739
Brad Mills: serum Dex and FTT Token and a whole bunch of

444
00:24:37,740 --> 00:24:40,920
Brad Mills: other ICO things that they launched, which were all defi

445
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,790
Brad Mills: sort of like related projects to compete with Ethereum and

446
00:24:44,790 --> 00:24:50,610
Brad Mills: the Andreessen Horowitz paradigm, Coinbase, Ethereum, maximalist crowd. And then

447
00:24:50,609 --> 00:24:53,070
Brad Mills: there was Binance at the same time doing they launch

448
00:24:53,070 --> 00:24:55,350
Brad Mills: Binance Smart Chain. They decided, Well, we want to compete

449
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:58,710
Brad Mills: with Ethereum's broken any way. The fees are $1,000 to

450
00:24:58,890 --> 00:25:01,740
Brad Mills: unwrap your bitcoin. If you wanted to put bitcoin on,

451
00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:03,540
Brad Mills: wrap it on Ethereum and use it for Defi and

452
00:25:03,540 --> 00:25:05,939
Brad Mills: then take it off, you'd be paying $1,000 in fees

453
00:25:05,940 --> 00:25:09,060
Brad Mills: just to get it off. So Solana and Binance and

454
00:25:09,060 --> 00:25:11,969
Brad Mills: all these other layer ones started to compete and they

455
00:25:11,970 --> 00:25:15,600
Brad Mills: all started to doing the same like infrastructure funds where

456
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,230
Brad Mills: they would basically put up $1,000,000,000 of capital of, of

457
00:25:19,230 --> 00:25:23,399
Brad Mills: like honeypot capital to get devs to come fork things

458
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:26,670
Brad Mills: over from Ethereum and build on Solana and build on Avalanche.

459
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,340
Brad Mills: And all you saw was really the rise of like

460
00:25:29,609 --> 00:25:33,960
Brad Mills: legitimate nonsense Ponzi schemes like Ohm and Wonderland and stuff

461
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,920
Brad Mills: like that. Which, if anybody had got caught, knows I'm sorry,

462
00:25:39,070 --> 00:25:41,800
Brad Mills: but they grew to multimillions as well. I know that's

463
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:42,790
Brad Mills: called rebasing.

464
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:43,250
Travis Wright: Come on.

465
00:25:43,270 --> 00:25:45,280
Brad Mills: Yeah, the rebasing, the remake.

466
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:47,070
Travis Wright: We saw it. We were like, What the hell is this?

467
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,709
Travis Wright: I played around with this a little bit, you know,

468
00:25:48,730 --> 00:25:49,690
Travis Wright: on it. And I was like, what.

469
00:25:49,930 --> 00:25:52,619
Brad Mills: 50,000% a y told?

470
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:53,780
Travis Wright: How is this?

471
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,800
Brad Mills: Yeah, totally logical. All right. 50,000.

472
00:25:57,220 --> 00:26:02,859
Travis Wright: Why so low? 50,000? AP And so so we're talking about.

473
00:26:03,130 --> 00:26:06,700
Brad Mills: Some of them were millions. I remember Kim she was

474
00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:08,800
Brad Mills: one that was in Defi summer 2020 and at one

475
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,780
Brad Mills: point was 1,000,000% API. But obviously there's a whole slew

476
00:26:13,780 --> 00:26:16,359
Brad Mills: of like really risky nonsense stuff, but then there are

477
00:26:16,369 --> 00:26:19,149
Brad Mills: some things that they actually built in Defi that were

478
00:26:19,150 --> 00:26:22,570
Brad Mills: interesting from a technology perspective, like the concept of being

479
00:26:22,570 --> 00:26:25,929
Brad Mills: able to do a decentralized exchange is, is a worthwhile

480
00:26:26,170 --> 00:26:29,919
Brad Mills: thing to try to build the idea of uniswap. Actually,

481
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,800
Brad Mills: it was funny, the founder of Uniswap Hayden Adams, I

482
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,280
Brad Mills: think his name is, he was like pissed off that

483
00:26:36,670 --> 00:26:39,939
Brad Mills: bank or raised so much money and did an ICO

484
00:26:39,940 --> 00:26:42,820
Brad Mills: and launched a bank or token B and he was

485
00:26:42,820 --> 00:26:47,110
Brad Mills: like this kind of Cypherpunk esque Ethereum dev. I don't

486
00:26:47,109 --> 00:26:49,869
Brad Mills: think he had any perverse incentives or was a bad

487
00:26:49,869 --> 00:26:51,880
Brad Mills: guy or anything like that. I kind of respected him.

488
00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:54,580
Brad Mills: He was like pissed off that they had raised $100

489
00:26:54,580 --> 00:26:56,530
Brad Mills: million in launched token. He's like, You don't need a

490
00:26:56,530 --> 00:26:59,709
Brad Mills: token to do in a decentralized exchange. So he forked

491
00:26:59,710 --> 00:27:02,290
Brad Mills: the code and he just ripped out the token and

492
00:27:02,290 --> 00:27:05,260
Brad Mills: he just made uniswap And people started to use Uniswap

493
00:27:05,260 --> 00:27:07,660
Brad Mills: because there was no need for a token. So that

494
00:27:07,660 --> 00:27:10,389
Brad Mills: actually got people using it. Some people, I mean, and then.

495
00:27:10,450 --> 00:27:11,530
Travis Wright: He created a token.

496
00:27:11,890 --> 00:27:14,500
Brad Mills: And then more. Yeah, exactly. Then the VCs invested in

497
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:17,950
Brad Mills: them and they launched a token, made themselves $1,000,000,000 printing

498
00:27:17,950 --> 00:27:20,950
Brad Mills: these defi tokens. It just clearly shows that there's like

499
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:23,560
Brad Mills: nothing but perverse incentives here. And like, there is some

500
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,320
Brad Mills: truth when people say like, Oh, well, you can use

501
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,440
Brad Mills: decentralized exchange, you can use all the liberal end protocols,

502
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,850
Brad Mills: there's there's some curve and yearn and compound and all

503
00:27:32,859 --> 00:27:35,230
Brad Mills: these different like Lego blocks or whatever you want to

504
00:27:35,230 --> 00:27:39,520
Brad Mills: call them, decentralized finance primitives. Yes, the technology in some

505
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,770
Brad Mills: cases is interesting, but that doesn't mean that it validates

506
00:27:44,770 --> 00:27:46,869
Brad Mills: the idea that you can just launch a token based

507
00:27:46,869 --> 00:27:48,970
Brad Mills: on that and a token has any value. And we've

508
00:27:48,970 --> 00:27:51,489
Brad Mills: seen that because a year and a half ago I

509
00:27:51,490 --> 00:27:56,770
Brad Mills: went on Kobe's podcast up only with Kobe Ledger, Peter

510
00:27:56,770 --> 00:28:00,460
Brad Mills: McCormick and Udi Worth. WERTHEIMER And I pretty much was

511
00:28:00,460 --> 00:28:03,340
Brad Mills: predicting the collapse of the defi tokens. They were all

512
00:28:03,340 --> 00:28:06,400
Brad Mills: calling me like a boom or maxi saying, you know,

513
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,379
Brad Mills: you just don't understand it. You don't think anything but

514
00:28:08,380 --> 00:28:12,160
Brad Mills: Bitcoin is valuable. And I'm saying like, no, like fundamentally,

515
00:28:12,609 --> 00:28:15,100
Brad Mills: you guys are in a bubble logic. You're drinking Kool-Aid.

516
00:28:15,490 --> 00:28:19,420
Brad Mills: Look at the valuation of these defi tokens. Even even

517
00:28:19,420 --> 00:28:22,929
Brad Mills: if we suspend the the Bitcoin or logic and, you know,

518
00:28:22,930 --> 00:28:25,090
Brad Mills: I'm just going to come at this neutral, right? And

519
00:28:25,090 --> 00:28:30,100
Brad Mills: I'm going to say, okay, let's say that curve has

520
00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:34,840
Brad Mills: its token and we treat curve like a decentralized stock

521
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,669
Brad Mills: and not in a bad way, not like it's a

522
00:28:36,670 --> 00:28:38,830
Brad Mills: securities thing. The SEC has to shut it down, nothing

523
00:28:38,830 --> 00:28:41,920
Brad Mills: like that. Just say that you value it like a stock. Well,

524
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,290
Brad Mills: like a company you value with something called the price

525
00:28:44,290 --> 00:28:47,020
Brad Mills: to earnings ratio, the p e ratio. And you look

526
00:28:47,020 --> 00:28:48,750
Brad Mills: at a lot of stocks in the in the in

527
00:28:48,850 --> 00:28:51,730
Brad Mills: the public markets and they're way overvalued. A lot of

528
00:28:51,730 --> 00:28:55,030
Brad Mills: tech stocks, a lot of tech stocks are like 20, 30,

529
00:28:55,030 --> 00:28:59,080
Brad Mills: 40 x p e ratios, which is just crazy. But

530
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,630
Brad Mills: then you look at Defi and they were like 100 x,

531
00:29:01,630 --> 00:29:06,280
Brad Mills: 200 x, 400 x p e ratios because these tokens,

532
00:29:06,940 --> 00:29:11,080
Brad Mills: they kind of earn a like a an earn mechanic

533
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,000
Brad Mills: where if the protocol generates, say, $1,000,000 a day in

534
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,940
Brad Mills: swapping fees, then a portion of that is shared back

535
00:29:18,940 --> 00:29:21,910
Brad Mills: to the curve token holders. So I mean, literally it's

536
00:29:21,910 --> 00:29:24,990
Brad Mills: like a security, but it's decentralized, right? So you can't,

537
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,190
Brad Mills: you know, whatever. But let's just forget about that argument

538
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:30,040
Brad Mills: and say, okay, well, if you value this thing based

539
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,240
Brad Mills: on fundamental logic, then that chart you just showed me

540
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,160
Brad Mills: of all the coingecko defi index, everything is way overvalued.

541
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,710
Brad Mills: Even still, even though we've gone through this bear market

542
00:29:41,710 --> 00:29:45,100
Brad Mills: so far a year in or whatever, things are still

543
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:48,970
Brad Mills: extremely overvalued because if you look at their p e

544
00:29:48,970 --> 00:29:52,209
Brad Mills: ratios or how much, how many fees they generate and

545
00:29:52,210 --> 00:29:56,890
Brad Mills: pay back to the token holders, it's insanely overvalued. So

546
00:29:56,890 --> 00:29:58,959
Brad Mills: I don't want to say that like Curv token is

547
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,150
Brad Mills: a Ponzi scheme because I want to be correct in

548
00:30:01,150 --> 00:30:04,990
Brad Mills: my criticism curve. Token is not a Ponzi scheme, okay?

549
00:30:04,990 --> 00:30:07,930
Brad Mills: But what they did do was build a Ponzi scheme

550
00:30:07,930 --> 00:30:10,660
Brad Mills: on top of curve token, they built this thing called

551
00:30:10,660 --> 00:30:16,750
Brad Mills: convex and convex is like a bribery mechanism that only

552
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:21,490
Brad Mills: the only goal of the convex protocol is to buy

553
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:26,050
Brad Mills: up as many curve tokens as possible and then allow

554
00:30:26,170 --> 00:30:30,760
Brad Mills: protocol owners to bribe the convex token holders to allow

555
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,370
Brad Mills: them to get on to curve. I mean, it's insane.

556
00:30:33,370 --> 00:30:39,780
Brad Mills: It's like. Literally. It's just a protocol for for unethical behavior.

557
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:43,350
Brad Mills: Convex is just the most insane. It's a Ponzi nomics.

558
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:45,600
Brad Mills: It's a Ponzi Anomic mechanic on top.

559
00:30:45,660 --> 00:30:47,240
Travis Wright: Horror nomics. I love.

560
00:30:47,670 --> 00:30:50,280
Brad Mills: It is. It's not tokenomics. It's Ponzi nomics. Yeah.

561
00:30:50,610 --> 00:30:52,680
Travis Wright: So let me ask you this then. So, you know,

562
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,960
Travis Wright: some people are saying, okay, you have the crypto market,

563
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,300
Travis Wright: $1,000,000,000,000 already. Like, what is it worth that much? I mean,

564
00:30:59,310 --> 00:31:01,890
Travis Wright: I got up to 11. Remember the top top two

565
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,740
Travis Wright: something trillion. Here we are, way less than that.

566
00:31:04,890 --> 00:31:06,990
Joel Comm: Three, three and a half. I want to say three.

567
00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:10,050
Travis Wright: And a half trillion. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So I look

568
00:31:10,050 --> 00:31:12,330
Travis Wright: at some of these. I was like, well, what exactly

569
00:31:12,540 --> 00:31:16,640
Travis Wright: does this do to be worth several billion dollars right now? Like,

570
00:31:16,650 --> 00:31:18,330
Travis Wright: that was my thing with one of the tokens that

571
00:31:18,330 --> 00:31:20,670
Travis Wright: I hit on. And I was like, wait a second,

572
00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:25,080
Travis Wright: there's no way that economy v v the where my

573
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,130
Travis Wright: token is worth $2.6 billion right now. I right as

574
00:31:29,130 --> 00:31:31,020
Travis Wright: I do, this is the top. You got to sell it.

575
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:33,930
Travis Wright: At least that's what that's what I try to scream

576
00:31:33,930 --> 00:31:37,440
Travis Wright: from the mountains selling and and people are you're an idiot.

577
00:31:37,470 --> 00:31:39,840
Travis Wright: You don't even know. And I was like, well, I

578
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,580
Travis Wright: know that they don't do two and a half billion

579
00:31:41,580 --> 00:31:43,110
Travis Wright: dollars worth of business right now.

580
00:31:43,410 --> 00:31:46,230
Brad Mills: Right? Dude? Like it was nuts at the top of

581
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:47,760
Brad Mills: the bubble. And this is why we get to the

582
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,840
Brad Mills: place where people overlook fraud, like what's happening with Alameda

583
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,690
Brad Mills: and what's still happening in crypto markets with a lot

584
00:31:54,690 --> 00:31:57,510
Brad Mills: of the people are just trying to deflect blame and say, Oh,

585
00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:01,020
Brad Mills: Sam Bankman-fried was a fraud. He's scammed banks for fraud.

586
00:32:01,050 --> 00:32:03,330
Brad Mills: He's not he's not us. We're that's not defi or

587
00:32:03,330 --> 00:32:06,150
Brad Mills: crypto like don't blame us but really it's they are

588
00:32:06,150 --> 00:32:10,200
Brad Mills: all in this incestuous like circlejerk of like token trading

589
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,250
Brad Mills: and liquidity mining like wash trading basically and pre mining

590
00:32:14,250 --> 00:32:18,120
Brad Mills: and dumping on people and elevating this logic that like

591
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,560
Brad Mills: a JPEG monkey picture can be worth $1,000,000 or a

592
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,560
Brad Mills: curve token can have a 400 x p e ratio.

593
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,230
Brad Mills: And it makes any kind of sense sense or an.

594
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:32,250
Travis Wright: Occasional sense like, you know, a price to earnings ratio,

595
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,760
Travis Wright: here's the price, here's the earnings. Seriously, when you're talking

596
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,970
Travis Wright: about the stock market, maybe it's a ten x, maybe

597
00:32:39,270 --> 00:32:43,080
Travis Wright: it's a there's a 1010 X price to earnings in crypto.

598
00:32:43,220 --> 00:32:44,910
Travis Wright: It seems like something that doesn't even apply.

599
00:32:45,810 --> 00:32:48,030
Brad Mills: Yeah, I mean, and this is me trying to be

600
00:32:48,030 --> 00:32:50,400
Brad Mills: generous and not say like these are all scams and

601
00:32:50,490 --> 00:32:52,500
Brad Mills: bitcoin's only thing you should pay attention to. I'm trying

602
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:55,920
Brad Mills: to like, take the, like, unbiased middle ground here as

603
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,380
Brad Mills: much as I possibly can, because I'm very much like

604
00:32:58,380 --> 00:33:00,720
Brad Mills: moral and pugnacious. You know, I have this moral and

605
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,000
Brad Mills: pugnacious when I look at all this stuff because it's

606
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,270
Brad Mills: just like I know that there's some person, some VC

607
00:33:06,510 --> 00:33:09,810
Brad Mills: taking advantage of retail people just printing all this money

608
00:33:09,810 --> 00:33:13,170
Brad Mills: by selling people on the narrative that defies the future.

609
00:33:13,170 --> 00:33:15,690
Brad Mills: And this is web3 and you're in control and blah blah,

610
00:33:15,690 --> 00:33:18,750
Brad Mills: blah when it's them. The same people that ruined Web

611
00:33:18,750 --> 00:33:21,960
Brad Mills: two are actually just coming in here pre mining everything

612
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,570
Brad Mills: and launching it out and then selling it to you saying, Oh,

613
00:33:24,570 --> 00:33:27,480
Brad Mills: this is a read, write own, this is web3 you

614
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,600
Brad Mills: own it. And now it's the VCs that ruined the first,

615
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,210
Brad Mills: like the last version of the internet are pre mining

616
00:33:33,210 --> 00:33:36,840
Brad Mills: and selling you dog shit and making you believe it's,

617
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,660
Brad Mills: you know, you know, drinking the Kool-Aid, believing it's the future.

618
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:40,730
Brad Mills: When I loved.

619
00:33:40,740 --> 00:33:43,260
Travis Wright: I love dog shit. Dog shit is my favorite.

620
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,740
Joel Comm: He likes to coin. Which begs the question about the

621
00:33:46,740 --> 00:33:50,520
Joel Comm: elephant in the living room. Or in this case, the donkey,

622
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:56,100
Joel Comm: even left leaning Axios, is bringing this story out right

623
00:33:56,100 --> 00:34:01,470
Joel Comm: now that millions of dollars millions went from Bankman-fried. I

624
00:34:01,470 --> 00:34:05,940
Joel Comm: think he was the second biggest donor to Democratic campaigns. And,

625
00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:09,239
Joel Comm: you know, the midterms just happened. There are accusations out

626
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:15,690
Joel Comm: there that this was one of the biggest money laundering scandals,

627
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,020
Joel Comm: like this is the biggest thing since Enron to happen.

628
00:34:19,290 --> 00:34:21,360
Joel Comm: You know, I don't know where you are at politically,

629
00:34:21,570 --> 00:34:25,290
Joel Comm: but on its face, does it appear like there's some

630
00:34:25,290 --> 00:34:31,890
Joel Comm: really shady stuff going on with with crypto, the Democratic Party, Ukraine,

631
00:34:31,890 --> 00:34:33,930
Joel Comm: all of this, is it all mixed together?

632
00:34:34,739 --> 00:34:38,040
Brad Mills: In some ways? I think it is. I think that

633
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,470
Brad Mills: there's there's two kind of. Ways to look at the

634
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:48,340
Brad Mills: way that Sam was donating money to the Democrats. There's. Let's.

635
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,540
Brad Mills: Assume just capitalist intent. Okay. Let's just assume he was

636
00:34:53,540 --> 00:34:56,690
Brad Mills: a capitalist and he got overseas, you know, by stealing

637
00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:58,790
Brad Mills: customers money and trying to trade with it. Let's just

638
00:34:58,790 --> 00:35:02,839
Brad Mills: say he got overseas. Let's say he's not, you know, like, okay,

639
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,750
Brad Mills: let's just go on that logic path. So he's a capitalist.

640
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:07,160
Brad Mills: He's trying to make as much money as he can.

641
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,890
Brad Mills: He's trying to build the biggest exchange as he possibly can,

642
00:35:10,370 --> 00:35:13,129
Brad Mills: and he's trying to get regulations passed for crypto so

643
00:35:13,130 --> 00:35:16,010
Brad Mills: that he doesn't get regulated out of existence so that

644
00:35:16,010 --> 00:35:19,130
Brad Mills: the world doesn't come together in a coordinated way to

645
00:35:19,130 --> 00:35:21,930
Brad Mills: figure out this was all Ponzi scams and send them

646
00:35:21,930 --> 00:35:24,740
Brad Mills: into jail. So let's say that's the path. Well, it

647
00:35:24,739 --> 00:35:29,239
Brad Mills: would make sense because, you know, his his family, like

648
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,649
Brad Mills: he has political connections and he's you know, the thing is,

649
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,109
Brad Mills: his mom was at MIT or something like that, like

650
00:35:36,110 --> 00:35:40,250
Brad Mills: his dad's a lawyer that worked, I think with SEC

651
00:35:40,250 --> 00:35:43,339
Brad Mills: or something. There's there's there's definitely connections there. Government and

652
00:35:44,460 --> 00:35:48,590
Brad Mills: and you know, the elite of the top universities of

653
00:35:48,590 --> 00:35:52,219
Brad Mills: the United States. So he has pedigree so he's seasoned

654
00:35:52,219 --> 00:35:54,320
Brad Mills: and he he can he can have doors open for

655
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,320
Brad Mills: him easier than somebody like Sisi who's, you know, like

656
00:35:57,530 --> 00:36:02,450
Brad Mills: kind of playing fast and loose and shirking regulations. So

657
00:36:02,450 --> 00:36:05,990
Brad Mills: so Sam starts to, like, want to engage with U.S. regulators.

658
00:36:05,989 --> 00:36:10,550
Brad Mills: He sets up FDX U X U.S. I mean, he

659
00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:15,320
Brad Mills: starts demonstrating to the Democratic Party. He starts to lobby

660
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:20,980
Brad Mills: lawmakers his. Carolyn, who is, you know, one of the

661
00:36:20,980 --> 00:36:24,490
Brad Mills: people at Alameda, which is the sister company there who

662
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,440
Brad Mills: wasn't in charge until the the CEO, Sam Trabuco, stepped

663
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,359
Brad Mills: down back in August, which was a huge red flag

664
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,609
Brad Mills: to me. And I was tweeting about it that he

665
00:36:33,610 --> 00:36:39,279
Brad Mills: stepped down. So she she kind of came in to

666
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,790
Brad Mills: lead Alameda and she has this connection in with Gary

667
00:36:42,790 --> 00:36:45,880
Brad Mills: Gensler in this sort of like two degrees of separation

668
00:36:46,180 --> 00:36:49,450
Brad Mills: and that there's a relationship between her father who worked

669
00:36:49,450 --> 00:36:54,290
Brad Mills: with Gary at MIT and then some other like his boss.

670
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:57,310
Joel Comm: Okay, just say it. Yes, there's incestuous.

671
00:36:57,340 --> 00:36:57,910
Brad Mills: There is.

672
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:59,050
Joel Comm: Happening here.

673
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,270
Brad Mills: There is. But there's two ways to look at it.

674
00:37:01,270 --> 00:37:03,430
Brad Mills: Like for sure, no matter which way you look at it,

675
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:06,400
Brad Mills: there's definitely like he's greasing the wheels and trying to

676
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:12,790
Brad Mills: use money to influence regulators to, like, favorably give him

677
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:15,730
Brad Mills: better access and put him in a stronger position. So

678
00:37:15,730 --> 00:37:17,589
Brad Mills: there's there's two ways to look at it. One is

679
00:37:17,590 --> 00:37:21,160
Brad Mills: the conspiracy way and one is the capitalist sort of way.

680
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,710
Brad Mills: I'm like, in the middle. I kind of lean towards

681
00:37:23,710 --> 00:37:25,600
Brad Mills: more of a conspiracy one on this one, because it

682
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,500
Brad Mills: sounds it's a little bit too, too crazy what happened

683
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:30,220
Brad Mills: with FDX.

684
00:37:30,730 --> 00:37:33,430
Joel Comm: And this this adds fuel to it right here. The

685
00:37:33,430 --> 00:37:38,500
Joel Comm: New York Times puts out a puff piece saying for years,

686
00:37:38,590 --> 00:37:41,020
Joel Comm: we know New York Times is an extremely, you know,

687
00:37:41,020 --> 00:37:45,340
Joel Comm: leftist Democrat leaning publication. It's not even up for debate.

688
00:37:45,610 --> 00:37:49,060
Joel Comm: And they're getting called out on on this piece, of course,

689
00:37:49,060 --> 00:37:52,899
Joel Comm: by their competition at The New York Post. But then

690
00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:56,830
Joel Comm: you've got Brian Armstrong saying that Twitter is broke in

691
00:37:56,830 --> 00:37:59,410
Joel Comm: just about every piece of New York Times is writing

692
00:37:59,410 --> 00:38:02,020
Joel Comm: puff pieces on a criminal. For a criminal feels like

693
00:38:02,020 --> 00:38:04,350
Joel Comm: a turning point for citizen journalism and loss of trust

694
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:11,370
Joel Comm: and MSM. Hello, Mr. Armstrong. Welcome to 2016 that this

695
00:38:11,410 --> 00:38:15,190
Joel Comm: this is not new. This is more than six years old.

696
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:19,780
Joel Comm: But we saw it really begin to surface when Trump

697
00:38:19,780 --> 00:38:22,540
Joel Comm: came down that escalator and all of a sudden journalism

698
00:38:22,540 --> 00:38:23,469
Joel Comm: went out the window.

699
00:38:24,820 --> 00:38:27,940
Brad Mills: I mean, it's been it's been a long it's it's

700
00:38:27,940 --> 00:38:33,819
Brad Mills: been a long history of biased reporting that I don't

701
00:38:33,820 --> 00:38:37,450
Brad Mills: think even started in 2016. I think it got worse

702
00:38:38,290 --> 00:38:42,400
Brad Mills: as centralization happened more in the advertising and and social

703
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,319
Brad Mills: media news industry got worse and censorship.

704
00:38:46,330 --> 00:38:48,460
Joel Comm: And they lost their minds when.

705
00:38:48,460 --> 00:38:49,180
Brad Mills: Oh yeah, well.

706
00:38:49,180 --> 00:38:51,910
Joel Comm: For sure that was it. That was like whatever wherever

707
00:38:52,090 --> 00:38:55,600
Joel Comm: level of lunacy they were at, whatever trust they had,

708
00:38:55,930 --> 00:38:59,200
Joel Comm: they're like, Screw it, We're going all in with our bias,

709
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:00,430
Joel Comm: whatever it means.

710
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,009
Brad Mills: Yeah, it's in. You can look at it like they

711
00:39:05,010 --> 00:39:08,610
Brad Mills: the Democrats were kind of or Democratic Party received the

712
00:39:08,610 --> 00:39:12,900
Brad Mills: most bonuses. You had Bill Clinton onstage at the FedEx

713
00:39:13,020 --> 00:39:18,300
Brad Mills: conference there. It's it's obviously like they want to they

714
00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:20,100
Brad Mills: want to kind of protect their own. They don't want

715
00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:22,050
Brad Mills: to make it seem like they were complicit in this

716
00:39:22,050 --> 00:39:25,350
Brad Mills: thing when when they really were. So they want to

717
00:39:25,350 --> 00:39:29,160
Brad Mills: minimize the impact, of course. And it's super biased because,

718
00:39:29,370 --> 00:39:32,490
Brad Mills: you know, they put this hit episode on Jesse Powell

719
00:39:32,489 --> 00:39:35,250
Brad Mills: from crack and because he he was like kind of

720
00:39:35,250 --> 00:39:38,520
Brad Mills: debating the the idea of cancel culture and things like that.

721
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,520
Brad Mills: And they were just like, offended morally that he would

722
00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:45,600
Brad Mills: question the idea of like the the cancel culture thing.

723
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,630
Brad Mills: So they put out this scathing sort of hit piece

724
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:51,330
Brad Mills: on him. And then, yeah, once SBF comes out as

725
00:39:51,330 --> 00:39:55,410
Brad Mills: a as an A massive fraud, they, they they don't

726
00:39:55,410 --> 00:39:57,480
Brad Mills: want to like make it look like, oh that's the

727
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,940
Brad Mills: guy that was our guy. Right? That was, that was

728
00:39:59,940 --> 00:40:01,980
Brad Mills: the guy that was the number one or number two

729
00:40:01,980 --> 00:40:05,550
Brad Mills: donor to the Democratic Party. So, you know, 10 million

730
00:40:05,550 --> 00:40:09,900
Brad Mills: or 11 million to Biden's campaign and was planning $1,000,000,000,

731
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:12,150
Brad Mills: you know, you saying is going to give $1,000,000,000 to

732
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:16,710
Brad Mills: Democratic politicians. But it's even it's even like less than

733
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:19,469
Brad Mills: the political thing. I think like on the capitalist sort

734
00:40:19,469 --> 00:40:22,380
Brad Mills: of crypto side, the way that I look at it

735
00:40:22,380 --> 00:40:26,219
Brad Mills: more is that, look, Sam was printing tens of billions

736
00:40:26,219 --> 00:40:30,270
Brad Mills: of dollars just like Andreessen Horowitz, just like Coinbase Ventures,

737
00:40:30,510 --> 00:40:35,880
Brad Mills: just like Binance, just like Three Arrows Capital was like

738
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,839
Brad Mills: all of these firms were doing the same degenerate like nonsense.

739
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,500
Brad Mills: In some ways it was fraud that they were just

740
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:45,900
Brad Mills: printing their own tokens and they were propping it up

741
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:49,080
Brad Mills: with this concept of web3 and defi and pumping it

742
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,050
Brad Mills: with billions of dollars of money and liquidity and like

743
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:58,050
Brad Mills: getting people like Katie Horne from A16 Crypto and like

744
00:40:58,890 --> 00:41:01,710
Brad Mills: Balaji Srinivasan, who's a huge VC in the space to

745
00:41:01,710 --> 00:41:04,860
Brad Mills: go on huge, influential podcast like the Tim Ferriss show

746
00:41:05,130 --> 00:41:07,800
Brad Mills: and show this logic to people that you should, you

747
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,070
Brad Mills: should pay attention to Defi and put your money into it.

748
00:41:12,210 --> 00:41:14,489
Brad Mills: And then obviously all the nonsense they did. But what

749
00:41:14,489 --> 00:41:16,680
Brad Mills: the NFT is tying all that in to where they're

750
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:21,480
Brad Mills: literally paying celebrities to shill stuff, putting free stuff in

751
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,270
Brad Mills: their wallets and then putting them on the Jimmy Fallon show.

752
00:41:24,570 --> 00:41:26,580
Brad Mills: I mean, there is a lot of nonsense going on.

753
00:41:26,850 --> 00:41:31,719
Brad Mills: And when you think about it like Bitcoin. Is competing

754
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,660
Brad Mills: with every single other token on the planet. Every other

755
00:41:34,660 --> 00:41:38,109
Brad Mills: cryptocurrency token is competing with Bitcoin. They're all trying to

756
00:41:38,110 --> 00:41:43,060
Brad Mills: like suck away investor mindshare and dollars and store of value.

757
00:41:43,390 --> 00:41:47,440
Brad Mills: People are people were treating JPEGs like store value. People

758
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,000
Brad Mills: were looking at other world or whatever the hell that

759
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,940
Brad Mills: thing was that the that the the ape people launched.

760
00:41:55,300 --> 00:41:59,380
Brad Mills: As you know, if bitcoin's other side. Other side. Yeah.

761
00:41:59,530 --> 00:42:02,020
Brad Mills: Bitcoin's too expensive for you, you know, by some, by

762
00:42:02,020 --> 00:42:05,470
Brad Mills: some other side, by some ape coin. And it was

763
00:42:05,469 --> 00:42:08,589
Brad Mills: being pushed by Coinbase and Robinhood and all these big

764
00:42:08,590 --> 00:42:12,070
Brad Mills: retail exchanges. So from the top down, you had all these,

765
00:42:12,070 --> 00:42:17,830
Brad Mills: all these people trying to push confusing bad logic out

766
00:42:17,830 --> 00:42:21,219
Brad Mills: to investors and high net worth individuals like Mike Novogratz,

767
00:42:21,219 --> 00:42:24,879
Brad Mills: who was literally shilling Ponzi scams like Luna to high

768
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,190
Brad Mills: net worth individuals, and Raul Paul from Real Vision, who

769
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,150
Brad Mills: was co-founder of Real Vision, was one of the biggest

770
00:42:31,150 --> 00:42:33,160
Brad Mills: lunar shills there was and had all of his net

771
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,640
Brad Mills: worth and Luna there.

772
00:42:34,900 --> 00:42:36,969
Travis Wright: Novogratz even got a Luna tattoo.

773
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,739
Brad Mills: Yeah. So like, look top down, you had all this

774
00:42:41,739 --> 00:42:46,030
Brad Mills: dumb logic be pushed from from either VCs or celebrity

775
00:42:46,030 --> 00:42:50,259
Brad Mills: influencers that had influence on high net worth individuals and

776
00:42:50,260 --> 00:42:53,740
Brad Mills: retail traders to suck in tens of millions of people

777
00:42:53,739 --> 00:42:57,910
Brad Mills: into like just suspending their logic and and going and

778
00:42:57,910 --> 00:43:02,140
Brad Mills: gambling their money and all this crazy garbage. So SBF

779
00:43:02,140 --> 00:43:05,470
Brad Mills: is just one pillar in that there's lots of other pillars.

780
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,500
Brad Mills: There's the whole, like I said, Silicon Valley, you know,

781
00:43:08,500 --> 00:43:11,529
Brad Mills: there's the beautiful tattoo right there. I'm sure I like

782
00:43:11,530 --> 00:43:14,410
Brad Mills: calling them. Mike No regrets instead of Mike.

783
00:43:14,590 --> 00:43:18,550
Joel Comm: Mike Novogratz He he, of course, you know, has to

784
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:21,190
Joel Comm: make a call on it and basically say, well, now

785
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:24,489
Joel Comm: it's it's just a reminder, you know, to him. Yeah,

786
00:43:24,530 --> 00:43:28,299
Joel Comm: I think that's the story right here. Luna Tattoo is

787
00:43:28,300 --> 00:43:35,500
Joel Comm: a constant reminder that investing requires humility. Dude. Life requires humility.

788
00:43:35,890 --> 00:43:39,160
Joel Comm: It's just, you know, if you get all proud about

789
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,730
Joel Comm: what you're doing, life will take you down a peg.

790
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:43,270
Joel Comm: Just it's how the world I think.

791
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,689
Brad Mills: I think. I think it's more insidious than that man.

792
00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:50,410
Brad Mills: Like he was doing something highly unethical. He's either a

793
00:43:50,410 --> 00:43:54,940
Brad Mills: complete jackass moron that doesn't see a Ponzi scam on it,

794
00:43:54,940 --> 00:43:57,040
Brad Mills: scare him in the face enough that he tattoos it

795
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,730
Brad Mills: on himself, which shows me he's just a literal idiot.

796
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,520
Brad Mills: Like he. He's just an a moron. If he's a

797
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,540
Brad Mills: money manager with that much money in Luna, like tens

798
00:44:07,540 --> 00:44:11,980
Brad Mills: of millions or more in Luna or he's a liar,

799
00:44:12,219 --> 00:44:15,250
Brad Mills: and he knew what he was doing, and he knowingly

800
00:44:15,370 --> 00:44:18,010
Brad Mills: sucked in millions of people to put their money in

801
00:44:18,010 --> 00:44:20,680
Brad Mills: the Ponzi scheme. Because what he did was two or

802
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,410
Brad Mills: three nights before the whole thing blew up, he pulled

803
00:44:23,410 --> 00:44:26,620
Brad Mills: hundreds of millions of dollars out of it. Yeah, that's right.

804
00:44:26,620 --> 00:44:28,779
Brad Mills: That's criminal. I don't know. I don't know exactly if

805
00:44:28,780 --> 00:44:31,569
Brad Mills: it was hundreds of millions. It was significant money, though,

806
00:44:31,570 --> 00:44:35,440
Brad Mills: like it was either 30 million or 300 million, whatever. What?

807
00:44:35,540 --> 00:44:39,070
Brad Mills: Doesn't matter, really. All the point is that he got

808
00:44:39,070 --> 00:44:42,250
Brad Mills: people into the Ponzi scam. He got his money out,

809
00:44:42,489 --> 00:44:45,010
Brad Mills: everybody else got wrecked, And then he says, Oh, yeah,

810
00:44:45,010 --> 00:44:47,140
Brad Mills: I guess it's a reminder that you got to have humility,

811
00:44:47,260 --> 00:44:49,330
Brad Mills: you know, like he's he's no different than the Wolf

812
00:44:49,330 --> 00:44:52,450
Brad Mills: of Wall Street guy, like, sucker ing people into penny

813
00:44:52,450 --> 00:44:54,280
Brad Mills: stocks and then dumping garbage on them.

814
00:44:54,489 --> 00:44:56,860
Joel Comm: Who's getting a second chance like that, dude? Who's the

815
00:44:56,860 --> 00:44:57,930
Joel Comm: wolf of Wall Street guy?

816
00:44:57,940 --> 00:45:00,580
Travis Wright: What's Jordan Somebody's Jordan Belfort.

817
00:45:00,580 --> 00:45:03,220
Joel Comm: Yeah. He like people. He still puts on events and

818
00:45:03,219 --> 00:45:05,950
Joel Comm: people still come to him as a guru. And I'm like,

819
00:45:07,180 --> 00:45:10,450
Joel Comm: you know, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me.

820
00:45:10,450 --> 00:45:13,719
Travis Wright: Twice. Don't get fooled again. Shame on me. Oh.

821
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:18,879
Joel Comm: You sold him. Yeah. You saw this like SBF is

822
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,609
Joel Comm: now coming out. He did this whole long thread of

823
00:45:21,610 --> 00:45:22,839
Joel Comm: cryptic tweets.

824
00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:25,060
Travis Wright: And now this. He's going in the back end and

825
00:45:25,060 --> 00:45:28,150
Travis Wright: deleting certain tweets. Somebody grabbed all of his tweets and

826
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:29,980
Travis Wright: saw that for every one new one that he would

827
00:45:29,980 --> 00:45:32,109
Travis Wright: create a previous one got delete it.

828
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:33,430
Joel Comm: Oh, my gosh.

829
00:45:33,910 --> 00:45:35,680
Travis Wright: I want to say this before we get into that.

830
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,210
Travis Wright: I want to say this because I want to jump in.

831
00:45:38,260 --> 00:45:40,690
Travis Wright: So you say Novogratz, he basically pulled his money out,

832
00:45:40,690 --> 00:45:44,500
Travis Wright: didn't say shit. Z, which I'm having more and more

833
00:45:44,500 --> 00:45:47,049
Travis Wright: respect for all the time because he saw it go down.

834
00:45:47,410 --> 00:45:49,390
Travis Wright: He said, Here's what we're going to do. We're going

835
00:45:49,390 --> 00:45:51,790
Travis Wright: to liquidate this FTD because it looks like it's not

836
00:45:51,790 --> 00:45:54,460
Travis Wright: good and we don't like how they're operating. And he

837
00:45:54,460 --> 00:45:56,770
Travis Wright: was very public about it. So to me, I was like,

838
00:45:56,770 --> 00:45:59,680
Travis Wright: Kudos to you, bro. I earned a little respect for you.

839
00:46:01,060 --> 00:46:04,430
Brad Mills: I agree with that, man. I think that's true. I think. S.Z.

840
00:46:04,630 --> 00:46:07,750
Brad Mills: I'm just more inclined to trust him, even though, like,

841
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:10,450
Brad Mills: I'm not recommending people use Binance or put their money

842
00:46:10,450 --> 00:46:13,900
Brad Mills: on Binance. But of, of all of these crypto casino

843
00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:19,180
Brad Mills: operators like S.Z. feels at least like he has reverence

844
00:46:19,180 --> 00:46:22,570
Brad Mills: for Bitcoin and he respects Bitcoin and he doesn't FUD

845
00:46:22,570 --> 00:46:25,960
Brad Mills: Bitcoin like that was the thing. SBF was doing that.

846
00:46:26,170 --> 00:46:28,270
Brad Mills: Like I'm saying, I don't, I don't necessarily think it

847
00:46:28,270 --> 00:46:30,649
Brad Mills: was so much a political cover up. Thing where it's

848
00:46:30,650 --> 00:46:34,250
Brad Mills: like the the the powers that be in the traditional

849
00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:37,520
Brad Mills: markets were actually just trying to prop him up. And then,

850
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,880
Brad Mills: you know, he's actually a CIA agent or something like that.

851
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:42,979
Brad Mills: And he's like, he's a spook. And he actually blew

852
00:46:42,980 --> 00:46:45,140
Brad Mills: the whole thing up on purpose to give them an

853
00:46:45,140 --> 00:46:48,320
Brad Mills: excuse to come in and heavily regulate. That's one of

854
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,469
Brad Mills: the conspiracy narratives going around. I mean, it's compelling because

855
00:46:51,469 --> 00:46:54,440
Brad Mills: all of this shit that happened that blew up with

856
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,700
Brad Mills: FDX will cause a huge backlash from regulators. But I

857
00:46:58,700 --> 00:47:00,680
Brad Mills: think more so What it was, was just he had

858
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,469
Brad Mills: this opportunity to grab a hold of a market lead

859
00:47:03,469 --> 00:47:08,120
Brad Mills: against finance. If the world started to regulate crypto and

860
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,120
Brad Mills: if he was able to get regulations passed that gave

861
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:15,529
Brad Mills: his shit coin printing abilities a little run for their money.

862
00:47:16,890 --> 00:47:20,550
Joel Comm: Well, they are definitely coming out now and saying that

863
00:47:20,820 --> 00:47:25,170
Joel Comm: they scheduled a hearing to investigate what happened with FDX.

864
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,210
Joel Comm: And of course, it's just going to be an opportunity

865
00:47:27,210 --> 00:47:30,540
Joel Comm: for them to all grandstand and show how smart they are,

866
00:47:30,540 --> 00:47:34,500
Joel Comm: not listen to the actual people that are that are testifying.

867
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:38,489
Joel Comm: And maybe maybe your conspiracy theory is accurate. But, you know,

868
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:41,549
Joel Comm: let's look back here at Sam's tweets. He comes out

869
00:47:41,550 --> 00:47:44,040
Joel Comm: with all these cryptic tweets, and now he's promising to

870
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,239
Joel Comm: try again to try to recover people's money. And here's

871
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,129
Joel Comm: the part that gets me the most when we get

872
00:47:50,130 --> 00:47:52,260
Joel Comm: to the fool me once, Shame on you. Fool me twice,

873
00:47:52,260 --> 00:47:56,760
Joel Comm: shame on me. Kevin O'Leary says that he is willing

874
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:02,400
Joel Comm: to give. He did invest in Sam Bankman-fried again, which

875
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,910
Joel Comm: causes like whatever respect I had for Mr. Wonderful to

876
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:09,960
Joel Comm: go your Mr. Stupid Mr. Idiot. What in the world

877
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,319
Joel Comm: are what do you know how many how influential that

878
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,509
Joel Comm: is to other people that have just lost a lot

879
00:48:15,510 --> 00:48:17,819
Joel Comm: of money and you're talking that you would invest in

880
00:48:18,060 --> 00:48:19,650
Joel Comm: this thief again.

881
00:48:19,660 --> 00:48:22,770
Travis Wright: Well, he was talking about how, you know, he's looking

882
00:48:22,770 --> 00:48:25,080
Travis Wright: for one of these big companies to crash, because that

883
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,720
Travis Wright: could be the moment that he could then go in.

884
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:29,580
Travis Wright: He's going to think that's near the bottom. And if

885
00:48:29,580 --> 00:48:33,840
Travis Wright: we're talking on the theory that that Brad here had said, well,

886
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,779
Travis Wright: we're kind of like we were in November of 2018,

887
00:48:37,020 --> 00:48:41,759
Travis Wright: 2018 was near the low of crypto like and then that.

888
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:47,220
Travis Wright: But 2018, there was not a big collapse of trust

889
00:48:47,219 --> 00:48:51,089
Travis Wright: in the space. It was rebounding. People were taking their time.

890
00:48:51,090 --> 00:48:51,960
Travis Wright: They were holding well.

891
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:57,000
Brad Mills: Actually it wasn't. It was 2019 when the real bear

892
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,690
Brad Mills: market happened. Like 2018 was like the slow unwind of

893
00:49:00,690 --> 00:49:06,109
Brad Mills: the bubble. And then 2019 was really the capitulation phase.

894
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,930
Brad Mills: It was long and brutal and the price of ETHE

895
00:49:09,930 --> 00:49:16,710
Brad Mills: went from 1400 to something like, I think 400 in 2018.

896
00:49:16,980 --> 00:49:19,040
Travis Wright: Now I went down to 89 bucks down in this

897
00:49:19,050 --> 00:49:24,120
Travis Wright: in November of 2018, 2019, was it 2019? And I

898
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:25,440
Travis Wright: was looking at the wrong leg. That's what I saw.

899
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,900
Travis Wright: It was like almost 90 bucks. The one point So

900
00:49:27,900 --> 00:49:29,290
Travis Wright: maybe I was looking at to 2019.

901
00:49:29,370 --> 00:49:31,920
Brad Mills: Maybe it was I'm just going by memory on this.

902
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,250
Brad Mills: I'm pretty sure, though, the 2019 was like the real

903
00:49:35,790 --> 00:49:39,840
Brad Mills: capitulation where we saw the like soft liquidity go to zero,

904
00:49:40,140 --> 00:49:42,750
Brad Mills: a lot of all coins that completely got delisted. So

905
00:49:42,989 --> 00:49:46,710
Brad Mills: the prices went completely to zero and E just kept

906
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:50,040
Brad Mills: trending down, down, down, down to eventually got to $80

907
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:56,669
Brad Mills: or so. And that was that was you know, that's

908
00:49:56,670 --> 00:49:58,410
Brad Mills: like what I think is in for the next year.

909
00:49:58,410 --> 00:50:01,109
Brad Mills: That's that's what I believe is going to happen over

910
00:50:01,110 --> 00:50:03,629
Brad Mills: the next year, maybe two years at this point, because

911
00:50:04,140 --> 00:50:07,230
Brad Mills: what just what just transpired in the crypto markets is

912
00:50:07,230 --> 00:50:11,490
Brad Mills: just insane. Like the fact that nobody saw this stuff.

913
00:50:12,060 --> 00:50:14,580
Brad Mills: It's just going to give the regulators an excuse to

914
00:50:14,580 --> 00:50:16,620
Brad Mills: come in and say, look, these people are all children

915
00:50:16,620 --> 00:50:19,230
Brad Mills: and scammers. They can't be left alone in a room

916
00:50:19,230 --> 00:50:22,319
Brad Mills: with each other. They're going to like, start cannibalizing each

917
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,259
Brad Mills: other and they're going to lose everybody's money. So we

918
00:50:25,260 --> 00:50:28,920
Brad Mills: have to come in and regulate this. They're not responsible. And,

919
00:50:29,250 --> 00:50:31,740
Brad Mills: you know, they got their push and Ponzi schemes and

920
00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:34,770
Brad Mills: you can't see obvious fraud in front of their faces.

921
00:50:35,250 --> 00:50:38,910
Brad Mills: And look at all this insane, like unregistered broker dealer

922
00:50:38,910 --> 00:50:42,990
Brad Mills: stuff happening and celebrities acting like promoters of complete garbage.

923
00:50:43,350 --> 00:50:45,509
Brad Mills: So we have to come in and regulate. And this

924
00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:48,509
Brad Mills: is going to be good, actually, because it'll cause more

925
00:50:48,510 --> 00:50:51,000
Brad Mills: people to finally be able to wake up and see

926
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,299
Brad Mills: the difference between Bitcoin and crypto. Because right now it's

927
00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:56,250
Brad Mills: very confusing because they can go out there and say

928
00:50:56,250 --> 00:51:00,210
Brad Mills: absolute trash, like people with millions of YouTube subscribers. They

929
00:51:00,210 --> 00:51:04,259
Brad Mills: have no business telling people advice on how they should

930
00:51:04,260 --> 00:51:07,860
Brad Mills: invest their money, have the respect in a bull market

931
00:51:07,890 --> 00:51:11,130
Brad Mills: as if there's some kind of smart, you know, financial

932
00:51:11,130 --> 00:51:14,550
Brad Mills: advisor that knows the difference between Bitcoin and a defi

933
00:51:14,550 --> 00:51:19,620
Brad Mills: token or an NFT land coin or whatever, and comparing

934
00:51:19,620 --> 00:51:22,140
Brad Mills: them almost the same. So you end up with a

935
00:51:22,140 --> 00:51:24,900
Brad Mills: lot of people getting into things like Celsius because they

936
00:51:24,900 --> 00:51:27,840
Brad Mills: want yield or a lot of people going into Defi

937
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,050
Brad Mills: and thinking that they're going to be doing yield farming

938
00:51:31,050 --> 00:51:35,900
Brad Mills: and getting yield. So I think it's important that. They

939
00:51:35,900 --> 00:51:40,550
Brad Mills: recognize that it's not just SBF was a fraudster. It's

940
00:51:40,550 --> 00:51:43,910
Brad Mills: that like they got to have some introspection and realize

941
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:47,509
Brad Mills: that they are the ones that enabled this market to

942
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:49,640
Brad Mills: get to a place where it can be a complete

943
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:54,230
Brad Mills: fraudulent base and grow massively to a point where it's

944
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:57,020
Brad Mills: going to be literally Ponzi schemes blowing up and burning

945
00:51:57,020 --> 00:52:00,290
Brad Mills: tens of billions of people's dollars because that's where it

946
00:52:00,290 --> 00:52:02,689
Brad Mills: got to. And they're all trying to sidestep it right now.

947
00:52:02,690 --> 00:52:05,150
Brad Mills: You can see if you go on Twitter spaces or

948
00:52:05,150 --> 00:52:07,370
Brad Mills: listen any interviews like what you just said with Kevin

949
00:52:07,370 --> 00:52:09,890
Brad Mills: O'Leary or like what The New York Times is doing,

950
00:52:10,460 --> 00:52:12,920
Brad Mills: they're all trying to sidestep it and say like, oh,

951
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,260
Brad Mills: we couldn't see this coming or Oh, he's a good guy.

952
00:52:15,260 --> 00:52:17,930
Brad Mills: We did our due diligence, we'd invest again. They're really

953
00:52:17,930 --> 00:52:20,750
Brad Mills: trying to sidestep it and say things like they're out

954
00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:23,410
Brad Mills: there doing that or they're saying things like, He was

955
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:26,750
Brad Mills: a fraud, It's a centralized exchange. That's the problem. You

956
00:52:26,750 --> 00:52:29,299
Brad Mills: got to go into Defi or you got to hold

957
00:52:29,300 --> 00:52:32,899
Brad Mills: your own keys with with the theory, Like they're trying

958
00:52:32,900 --> 00:52:37,160
Brad Mills: to basically sidestep the whole entire rest of the picture.

959
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,739
Brad Mills: And dude, I came on this podcast back in May

960
00:52:39,739 --> 00:52:44,090
Brad Mills: talking about Defi like Luno was Defi so so it

961
00:52:44,090 --> 00:52:47,660
Brad Mills: started with Defi really. It was these centralized people that

962
00:52:47,660 --> 00:52:51,590
Brad Mills: were propping up defi money printing games. And then it yeah,

963
00:52:51,590 --> 00:52:55,070
Brad Mills: they made markets on centralized exchanges, They, they listed the

964
00:52:55,070 --> 00:52:58,610
Brad Mills: defi coins on centralized exchanges and then that caused a

965
00:52:58,610 --> 00:53:02,180
Brad Mills: whole bunch of crazy nonsense to grow even bigger. But

966
00:53:02,180 --> 00:53:05,779
Brad Mills: this started from Defi like Defi is the problem here

967
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,380
Brad Mills: the Ethereum defi I like I like the idea like

968
00:53:09,380 --> 00:53:13,850
Brad Mills: I said before, a decentralized lending, decentralized exchange. Obviously money

969
00:53:13,850 --> 00:53:15,860
Brad Mills: is the biggest use case that you can ever have

970
00:53:15,860 --> 00:53:19,940
Brad Mills: for decentralized finance. Like the money is the biggest use

971
00:53:19,940 --> 00:53:25,100
Brad Mills: case of decentralized finance. Having a money that's sound and

972
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:28,880
Brad Mills: and fixed and trustworthy in terms of its monetary policy,

973
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:33,050
Brad Mills: something predictable for 100 years in the future. That's a

974
00:53:33,050 --> 00:53:35,810
Brad Mills: ten x improvement over gold. And that's not going to

975
00:53:35,810 --> 00:53:40,160
Brad Mills: just slowly be debased like the dollar. Bitcoin is perfect

976
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,400
Brad Mills: money and it's the building block of Defi. You got

977
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,520
Brad Mills: to start with a sound money and that's what Bitcoin is.

978
00:53:46,670 --> 00:53:51,110
Brad Mills: And we're building out decentralized finance on Bitcoin. So it's

979
00:53:51,110 --> 00:53:54,440
Brad Mills: just not done with all these token Ponzi scams attached

980
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,480
Brad Mills: to it. It's going to be just done like technology,

981
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:57,440
Brad Mills: like Bitcoin.

982
00:53:57,530 --> 00:54:01,400
Joel Comm: Or do you expect, do you think that the government

983
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:02,690
Joel Comm: is going to come out and say, Hey, these are

984
00:54:02,690 --> 00:54:05,600
Joel Comm: all unregistered securities and we're going to see thousands of

985
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,620
Joel Comm: coins just go to zero? Is that is that it's likely?

986
00:54:09,980 --> 00:54:13,549
Brad Mills: It's likely at this point. I mean, it's pretty clear

987
00:54:13,550 --> 00:54:16,430
Brad Mills: what the SEC's been signaling for the last little while

988
00:54:16,430 --> 00:54:20,600
Brad Mills: and then recently with the with their library case, They

989
00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:22,370
Brad Mills: you know, that's a weird one if you're not really

990
00:54:22,370 --> 00:54:24,440
Brad Mills: paying too much attention because you're like, why would they

991
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,130
Brad Mills: go after library? That's like a 2016 ICO that raised

992
00:54:28,130 --> 00:54:33,830
Brad Mills: like $500,000. It's like a peanut compared to EOS and

993
00:54:33,830 --> 00:54:35,989
Brad Mills: and all this other stuff with FTT token in the

994
00:54:35,989 --> 00:54:38,990
Brad Mills: billions and Solana and Ethereum and all these other things

995
00:54:38,989 --> 00:54:43,489
Brad Mills: that raise, you know, either raised billions or became the

996
00:54:43,489 --> 00:54:46,850
Brad Mills: pre mine bag of it was worth billions. So why

997
00:54:46,850 --> 00:54:51,440
Brad Mills: would they go after library. Well it's actually in a

998
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:56,840
Brad Mills: game theory sort of scenario. Library gives them a precedent

999
00:54:56,930 --> 00:55:01,650
Brad Mills: because it's a court ruling. To be able to have

1000
00:55:01,650 --> 00:55:05,850
Brad Mills: legal ground, that all of these things are securities. And

1001
00:55:06,030 --> 00:55:09,690
Brad Mills: library didn't even do a traditional ICOs. They didn't actually

1002
00:55:09,690 --> 00:55:12,629
Brad Mills: like do this big thing with an ICO. They actually

1003
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:16,920
Brad Mills: just sold pre mined coins to people after the project launched.

1004
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:21,480
Brad Mills: So it's an important case. It's an important ruling because

1005
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,029
Brad Mills: it went to the courts. And, you know, obviously we've

1006
00:55:24,030 --> 00:55:27,660
Brad Mills: had tons of SEC settlements where they've said like, you know, hey,

1007
00:55:27,660 --> 00:55:30,960
Brad Mills: Kim Kardashian, you can't just go out and promote this thing.

1008
00:55:31,150 --> 00:55:34,200
Brad Mills: Here's a fine for $500,000 or a million or whatever

1009
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:38,069
Brad Mills: it is, or, hey, like, you know, can you can't

1010
00:55:38,070 --> 00:55:41,700
Brad Mills: just launch this illegal security. You're going to have to

1011
00:55:41,700 --> 00:55:44,910
Brad Mills: send all the money back to all the investors. There's

1012
00:55:44,910 --> 00:55:47,069
Brad Mills: all kinds of things like that that happen. But this

1013
00:55:47,070 --> 00:55:50,400
Brad Mills: this one actually sets a precedent that the courts have

1014
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,930
Brad Mills: decided in the SEC's favor. So now this spells a

1015
00:55:54,930 --> 00:55:58,770
Brad Mills: lot of problems for all the other cryptocurrencies that are

1016
00:55:58,770 --> 00:56:03,910
Brad Mills: most likely unregistered securities because. The shit that blew up

1017
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:06,970
Brad Mills: in the last eight months in crypto is going to

1018
00:56:06,969 --> 00:56:10,810
Brad Mills: cause an extreme backlash from the regulators to come and

1019
00:56:10,810 --> 00:56:13,960
Brad Mills: look at these markets. And even with the OFAC sanctioning

1020
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,989
Brad Mills: the tornado cache protocol and arresting the dev, you can

1021
00:56:16,989 --> 00:56:20,859
Brad Mills: see like it's clear they don't want to see decentralized

1022
00:56:20,860 --> 00:56:25,810
Brad Mills: finance on Ethereum. Succeed from multiple angles. They don't want

1023
00:56:25,810 --> 00:56:27,580
Brad Mills: to see it be able to be used for criminal

1024
00:56:27,580 --> 00:56:30,759
Brad Mills: money laundering and funding Russia and all blah, blah, blah.

1025
00:56:30,770 --> 00:56:32,980
Brad Mills: Like all the traditional rules that they have in the

1026
00:56:32,980 --> 00:56:36,399
Brad Mills: financial system, whether you agree with that or not. Like,

1027
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,800
Brad Mills: it's not even a comment on that. It's just they

1028
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,250
Brad Mills: have the guns, they have the regulations in place. It's

1029
00:56:42,250 --> 00:56:46,990
Brad Mills: clear they're enforcing the regulations on Defi. So people are

1030
00:56:46,989 --> 00:56:49,900
Brad Mills: just out there screaming in the wind saying, Yeah, but

1031
00:56:49,900 --> 00:56:52,420
Brad Mills: we want to be able to do it. Well, the

1032
00:56:52,420 --> 00:56:55,450
Brad Mills: SEC has rules and they have the authority. So you're

1033
00:56:55,450 --> 00:56:59,650
Brad Mills: either risking going to jail or getting a huge fine

1034
00:56:59,650 --> 00:57:02,520
Brad Mills: by just going against the SEC, going against old fact,

1035
00:57:02,530 --> 00:57:06,290
Brad Mills: going against fat if. And look, the only community that

1036
00:57:06,290 --> 00:57:10,580
Brad Mills: is decentralized enough to withstand a government regulatory clampdown is Bitcoin.

1037
00:57:11,090 --> 00:57:14,090
Brad Mills: There actually is nothing that the regulators can do to

1038
00:57:14,090 --> 00:57:17,780
Brad Mills: the Bitcoin protocol to change the Bitcoin protocol. We saw

1039
00:57:17,810 --> 00:57:21,350
Brad Mills: that play out with the SegWit two X sort of No.

1040
00:57:21,350 --> 00:57:26,150
Brad Mills: Two X movement. The Blocksize wars in 2017, the Bitcoiners

1041
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:29,660
Brad Mills: like that were running their own nodes. It got like

1042
00:57:29,660 --> 00:57:34,100
Brad Mills: it proved out that the Bitcoin network and the consensus

1043
00:57:34,100 --> 00:57:37,160
Brad Mills: of Bitcoin is not controlled by corporations. It's not controlled

1044
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,970
Brad Mills: by miners. It's controlled by users that run nodes. So

1045
00:57:41,010 --> 00:57:44,330
Brad Mills: doesn't matter what the government says to the mining companies

1046
00:57:44,330 --> 00:57:48,050
Brad Mills: or to the Bitcoin developers. It's the it's the it's

1047
00:57:48,050 --> 00:57:50,570
Brad Mills: the hundred thousand users that run their own nodes that

1048
00:57:50,570 --> 00:57:53,330
Brad Mills: actually enforce the rules of Bitcoin. And just like how

1049
00:57:53,330 --> 00:57:56,750
Brad Mills: in BitTorrent, it's illegal to download movies, but people still

1050
00:57:56,750 --> 00:57:59,270
Brad Mills: do it anyways because there's like too many people to

1051
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:02,420
Brad Mills: enforce the rule. They can't stop bitcoin and they can't

1052
00:58:02,420 --> 00:58:03,380
Brad Mills: change bitcoin.

1053
00:58:03,830 --> 00:58:06,740
Joel Comm: Well, Karen on Capitol Hill has called and asked to

1054
00:58:06,740 --> 00:58:08,300
Joel Comm: speak to the manager of Bitcoin.

1055
00:58:09,350 --> 00:58:10,400
Travis Wright: And I want to talk to.

1056
00:58:10,410 --> 00:58:14,120
Travis Wright: The manager who's in charge here. Nobody says that that

1057
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,460
Travis Wright: is true. So as we as we wrap this thing

1058
00:58:16,460 --> 00:58:19,880
Travis Wright: up here, you know, give a warning to people maybe

1059
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,690
Travis Wright: around your thoughts around cbdcs, because as I'm looking at

1060
00:58:23,690 --> 00:58:25,190
Travis Wright: this thing and as we've told you all and I've

1061
00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:28,910
Travis Wright: talked about this, it seems that FDX was a Ponzi

1062
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:33,870
Travis Wright: set up with the intention to eventually try to crash crypto.

1063
00:58:33,890 --> 00:58:36,590
Travis Wright: They're laundering money that they're given to Ukraine. It's going

1064
00:58:36,590 --> 00:58:39,860
Travis Wright: back to the politicians, not only on the Democrats side.

1065
00:58:40,220 --> 00:58:42,620
Travis Wright: Mitch McConnell got two and a half million dollars. They

1066
00:58:42,620 --> 00:58:45,830
Travis Wright: were showing it. And then right after that, boom, oh, hey,

1067
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,100
Travis Wright: we're going to we're going to we're going to test

1068
00:58:48,110 --> 00:58:52,070
Travis Wright: a 12 week cbdc pilot program. You guys have nothing

1069
00:58:52,070 --> 00:58:56,290
Travis Wright: to do with FDX or any of that. So, I mean, seriously,

1070
00:58:56,330 --> 00:58:59,540
Travis Wright: this seems like the worst sort of dystopian kind of

1071
00:58:59,540 --> 00:59:00,890
Travis Wright: thing we could possibly have. Is this.

1072
00:59:01,910 --> 00:59:05,810
Brad Mills: Yeah, I'm not I'm not super worried about Cbdcs because

1073
00:59:05,810 --> 00:59:08,660
Brad Mills: I just don't think that we have a culture here

1074
00:59:08,660 --> 00:59:11,900
Brad Mills: where people would want to use them. And even if

1075
00:59:11,900 --> 00:59:14,270
Brad Mills: they did want to use them, let's say it's like

1076
00:59:14,570 --> 00:59:19,340
Brad Mills: a real sort of brainwashing scenario, like what happened with

1077
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:24,680
Brad Mills: the COVID situation where people just politically aligned to to

1078
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:28,400
Brad Mills: an opinion because of their their force fed opinions from

1079
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:32,000
Brad Mills: top down from celebrities and and government officials, and you.

1080
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,530
Joel Comm: Just want granny to die.

1081
00:59:33,610 --> 00:59:34,850
Brad Mills: That's yeah, yeah, that's all.

1082
00:59:34,850 --> 00:59:36,800
Joel Comm: Fred Mills You just want granny to die.

1083
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:38,690
Brad Mills: So. So if they can figure out a way to

1084
00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:41,810
Brad Mills: get you to adopt the Cbdc based on that sort

1085
00:59:41,810 --> 00:59:46,970
Brad Mills: of like manipulation, like maybe they introduce a UBI $400

1086
00:59:46,970 --> 00:59:48,470
Brad Mills: a month, The only way you can get it is

1087
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:50,710
Brad Mills: if you use the cbdc wallet or something like that.

1088
00:59:50,950 --> 00:59:52,070
Travis Wright: What if what if they just.

1089
00:59:52,070 --> 00:59:54,770
Joel Comm: Say, What if the government says we are extending the

1090
00:59:54,770 --> 00:59:56,630
Joel Comm: dollar in dollar for dollar?

1091
00:59:56,650 --> 00:59:58,760
Brad Mills: That's I'm saying like, you know, they won't be able

1092
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,250
Brad Mills: to just do something like that in United States. It's

1093
01:00:01,250 --> 01:00:05,419
Brad Mills: not China. Like you guys have a much more. Yeah, but,

1094
01:00:05,420 --> 01:00:08,959
Brad Mills: but you guys have a much more like anti authoritarian

1095
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,320
Brad Mills: freedom culture than China or even Canada where I live.

1096
01:00:12,770 --> 01:00:15,710
Brad Mills: So I don't think that they can actually force a

1097
01:00:15,710 --> 01:00:17,900
Brad Mills: change over to see because I think they'll have to

1098
01:00:17,900 --> 01:00:22,760
Brad Mills: entice people to do it through creative things like a UBI.

1099
01:00:22,790 --> 01:00:24,200
Brad Mills: You know, if you don't use it, you don't get

1100
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,040
Brad Mills: the UBI. Here's $500 a month for everybody who uses

1101
01:00:27,050 --> 01:00:30,380
Brad Mills: our wallet. And if they do that, I mean, that's

1102
01:00:30,380 --> 01:00:34,400
Brad Mills: actually kind of good for Bitcoin, I believe, because it

1103
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,040
Brad Mills: will it will you know, it doesn't matter if it's

1104
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:41,060
Brad Mills: a dollar or a cbdc. It gets people more thinking

1105
01:00:41,060 --> 01:00:45,380
Brad Mills: digitally and it will show the need for Bitcoin. It'll

1106
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,030
Brad Mills: further separate Bitcoin from everything else because Bitcoin will be

1107
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,850
Brad Mills: then even more will be the only decentralized censorship resistant

1108
01:00:53,060 --> 01:00:55,460
Brad Mills: money that we have in the world. So I think

1109
01:00:55,460 --> 01:00:59,660
Brad Mills: it's good for bitcoin and bitcoin holders should definitely be

1110
01:00:59,660 --> 01:01:02,660
Brad Mills: wary of Cbdcs, but I actually think that the crypto

1111
01:01:02,660 --> 01:01:06,320
Brad Mills: thing is a more insidious threat to Bitcoin success because

1112
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:10,370
Brad Mills: it's propped up by influencers that are not trying to

1113
01:01:10,370 --> 01:01:13,190
Brad Mills: like surveil you necessarily. They're just trying to get rich

1114
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:17,959
Brad Mills: and they're, you know, they were effectively using celebrity influence

1115
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,890
Brad Mills: to brainwash tens of millions of people into buying garbage

1116
01:01:21,890 --> 01:01:24,800
Brad Mills: and not paying attention to Bitcoin. And, you know, Saez

1117
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:28,520
Brad Mills: was out there or Sam was SBF was out there

1118
01:01:28,700 --> 01:01:33,560
Brad Mills: lobbying against Bitcoin, saying things like Lightning Network is too slow.

1119
01:01:33,590 --> 01:01:35,690
Brad Mills: You know, you can't use that for money for the world.

1120
01:01:36,270 --> 01:01:39,350
Brad Mills: Salon is the solution. And his lobbying that he was

1121
01:01:39,350 --> 01:01:42,740
Brad Mills: doing was basically trying to put Bitcoin and Ethereum and

1122
01:01:43,010 --> 01:01:48,050
Brad Mills: Solana in the same category legally. So clearly there's objectives

1123
01:01:48,050 --> 01:01:51,110
Brad Mills: here from the Ethereum crowd, like COIN Center is funded

1124
01:01:51,110 --> 01:01:55,970
Brad Mills: by consensus and they benefited greatly at least 10 million

1125
01:01:55,970 --> 01:01:59,990
Brad Mills: or maybe maybe $4 million or something off the jet

1126
01:01:59,990 --> 01:02:05,330
Brad Mills: coin scam that got ran in 2021. Consensus airdropped like

1127
01:02:05,330 --> 01:02:09,560
Brad Mills: tons of get coin tokens to to to coin center

1128
01:02:09,770 --> 01:02:11,870
Brad Mills: and then coin center goes and lobbies and tries to

1129
01:02:11,870 --> 01:02:14,720
Brad Mills: convince the government that Ethereum is not a security. So

1130
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,770
Brad Mills: you have like all of these COIN foundations and lobby

1131
01:02:18,770 --> 01:02:22,880
Brad Mills: groups fighting against Bitcoin, trying to lump Bitcoin in with

1132
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,430
Brad Mills: all the pawns is a nonsense that happened in crypto.

1133
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:29,750
Brad Mills: And honestly, it's like that's what I think is more

1134
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:32,720
Brad Mills: at play here. I don't necessarily think it's so much

1135
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:37,460
Brad Mills: like political conspiracies. It's just incentives. Like Ripple is literally

1136
01:02:37,460 --> 01:02:40,910
Brad Mills: funding Greenpeace to fund Bitcoin and say proof of work

1137
01:02:40,910 --> 01:02:43,940
Brad Mills: is evil and it's going to boil the oceans. Ethereum

1138
01:02:43,940 --> 01:02:46,490
Brad Mills: and consensus are out there trying to flood Bitcoin, saying, Oh,

1139
01:02:46,490 --> 01:02:49,070
Brad Mills: now we're proof of stake, we're green coin. Sam was

1140
01:02:49,070 --> 01:02:51,500
Brad Mills: doing the same thing. So literally this is a battle

1141
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:54,710
Brad Mills: for money. And while there is some political component to it,

1142
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,740
Brad Mills: people got to realize that like if we don't have

1143
01:02:57,740 --> 01:03:02,180
Brad Mills: bitcoin separated from crypto, we will get into a world

1144
01:03:02,180 --> 01:03:05,780
Brad Mills: of cbdcs and surveillance. Because they can co-opt Solana, they

1145
01:03:05,780 --> 01:03:09,110
Brad Mills: can co-opt Ethereum. Everything else is centralized. And if we

1146
01:03:09,110 --> 01:03:12,080
Brad Mills: really do want to have a sovereign form of money

1147
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,810
Brad Mills: that we can use, that's censorship free, you got to

1148
01:03:14,810 --> 01:03:17,240
Brad Mills: choose Bitcoin and you got to start learning more about

1149
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,180
Brad Mills: Bitcoin and think a little longer term instead of like,

1150
01:03:20,180 --> 01:03:23,150
Brad Mills: how do I get the next 100% API on my

1151
01:03:23,150 --> 01:03:25,370
Brad Mills: on my, my, my Stablecoins are like, what's the next

1152
01:03:25,370 --> 01:03:27,290
Brad Mills: NFT thing that's going to ten X?

1153
01:03:27,710 --> 01:03:30,380
Joel Comm: We will forever live in a Gordon Gekko. Greed is

1154
01:03:30,380 --> 01:03:34,160
Joel Comm: good world. Unfortunately, it seems like stories are coming up

1155
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,320
Joel Comm: every day. So I got one last question before we

1156
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,050
Joel Comm: let you go, Brad. Thank you for for your time

1157
01:03:39,050 --> 01:03:44,750
Joel Comm: and your opinions today. Now, Genesis Global is halting withdrawals.

1158
01:03:44,930 --> 01:03:48,170
Joel Comm: The question is this. Do you feel like we've seen

1159
01:03:48,170 --> 01:03:51,230
Joel Comm: the majority of the cascading effect of this or do

1160
01:03:51,230 --> 01:03:52,730
Joel Comm: you feel like we're still at the tip of the

1161
01:03:52,730 --> 01:03:56,630
Joel Comm: iceberg and and the you know, the markets are still

1162
01:03:56,630 --> 01:04:03,220
Joel Comm: really going to tumble, including Bitcoin because. Bitcoin is tied

1163
01:04:03,220 --> 01:04:06,400
Joel Comm: to crypto. Whether they'd like it or not.

1164
01:04:07,390 --> 01:04:09,520
Brad Mills: So I do think like in the analogy I set

1165
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:11,530
Brad Mills: up at the beginning that we're at like the end

1166
01:04:11,530 --> 01:04:14,740
Brad Mills: of 2018. And if you look at the chart market

1167
01:04:14,740 --> 01:04:17,890
Brad Mills: or the coin markets and the charts for 2019, I

1168
01:04:17,890 --> 01:04:21,610
Brad Mills: think that's where we're going in 2023. It's not going

1169
01:04:21,610 --> 01:04:25,030
Brad Mills: to be good. It's going to be a long, brutal,

1170
01:04:25,270 --> 01:04:31,510
Brad Mills: painful capitulation. And there's so many overvalued coins like look

1171
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:35,380
Brad Mills: at go through coin gecko's top 100 and just like

1172
01:04:35,650 --> 01:04:39,250
Brad Mills: try to rationalize the valuation of these coins for their

1173
01:04:39,250 --> 01:04:42,400
Brad Mills: market caps and just look at the chart at like

1174
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:46,990
Brad Mills: let's say the Fed didn't print $10 trillion and reignite everything, right?

1175
01:04:47,710 --> 01:04:50,170
Brad Mills: Look at the trend of where most altcoins were going.

1176
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:54,880
Brad Mills: They were going to zero. But because 20, 20, 2020,

1177
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,370
Brad Mills: like the end of 2020 and, you know, beginning of

1178
01:04:57,370 --> 01:05:01,840
Brad Mills: 2021 bubble happened. Like, just click on, click on. Like

1179
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,030
Brad Mills: not even Solana, because that was an ICO. Let's just

1180
01:05:04,270 --> 01:05:05,920
Brad Mills: let's just look at one of the.

1181
01:05:06,670 --> 01:05:06,940
Joel Comm: Pick.

1182
01:05:06,940 --> 01:05:10,090
Brad Mills: One, for instance, like Tron Coin. I'm not trying to

1183
01:05:10,090 --> 01:05:12,880
Brad Mills: pick on any specific Cardano's another perfect one.

1184
01:05:13,180 --> 01:05:15,100
Joel Comm: So let's look at Tron here. Here we go. It

1185
01:05:15,100 --> 01:05:18,370
Joel Comm: hit a zoom. I forget. Forget the ICO, but in

1186
01:05:18,370 --> 01:05:24,340
Joel Comm: its peak in 2021, it got up to, what, $0.16?

1187
01:05:24,340 --> 01:05:26,540
Joel Comm: And now it's sitting. Oh, no, no.

1188
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,960
Travis Wright: Well, nine and a half billion dollars is.

1189
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,060
Brad Mills: What it was. Nine and a half billion market cap.

1190
01:05:31,060 --> 01:05:35,560
Brad Mills: But look at the price. Say January 2020, what was

1191
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:37,660
Brad Mills: the price of Tron in January 2020?

1192
01:05:38,020 --> 01:05:40,600
Joel Comm: That would have been about a penny and a half.

1193
01:05:41,110 --> 01:05:44,770
Brad Mills: You know, like 2 billion. Yeah. So? So a penny

1194
01:05:44,770 --> 01:05:49,900
Brad Mills: and a half for Tron is still overvalued, in my opinion,

1195
01:05:50,170 --> 01:05:52,870
Brad Mills: because we were we were kind of reconciling. We were

1196
01:05:52,870 --> 01:05:54,820
Brad Mills: going through a two year bear market where people were

1197
01:05:54,820 --> 01:05:58,060
Brad Mills: realizing that this stuff doesn't have a lot of value. Honestly,

1198
01:05:58,060 --> 01:06:01,660
Brad Mills: it's not really that valuable. They're more like, if you

1199
01:06:01,660 --> 01:06:04,120
Brad Mills: want to be, if you want to be generous, you

1200
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,580
Brad Mills: can say that if Bitcoin is a commodity and so

1201
01:06:06,580 --> 01:06:08,530
Brad Mills: are some of these altcoins, you could say that like

1202
01:06:08,740 --> 01:06:13,690
Brad Mills: Bitcoin is gold and Tron is like bronze or something

1203
01:06:13,690 --> 01:06:16,060
Brad Mills: like that. Like maybe because a lot of people use

1204
01:06:16,060 --> 01:06:20,200
Brad Mills: Tron for Stablecoins overseas, maybe it has some utility value

1205
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:25,090
Brad Mills: like aluminum has massive utility value in the world. And

1206
01:06:25,090 --> 01:06:27,460
Brad Mills: I'll tell this story and then we'll well, we can

1207
01:06:27,460 --> 01:06:29,680
Brad Mills: end it. But like this is the framework of thinking

1208
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,830
Brad Mills: that I like to have, even if Ethereum is successful,

1209
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,050
Brad Mills: because back in like I think it was the 1800s

1210
01:06:35,050 --> 01:06:38,650
Brad Mills: when they first discovered like aluminum, it was a lighter,

1211
01:06:38,650 --> 01:06:41,860
Brad Mills: stronger metal metal than gold, and it was like shinier.

1212
01:06:41,980 --> 01:06:47,640
Brad Mills: So they found aluminum. People had this crazy FOMO bubble

1213
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:50,160
Brad Mills: over aluminum and they started buying it up and it

1214
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,040
Brad Mills: went up, like in the value of aluminum went crazy.

1215
01:06:53,460 --> 01:06:55,710
Brad Mills: It got so bad. It got so bad. This bubble

1216
01:06:55,710 --> 01:07:01,470
Brad Mills: that Napoleon had a set of gold silverware and aluminum silverware.

1217
01:07:01,740 --> 01:07:04,650
Brad Mills: And when the esteemed guests would come over for dinner,

1218
01:07:04,980 --> 01:07:08,160
Brad Mills: they would be served on the aluminum silverware. And then

1219
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:10,830
Brad Mills: the children would get the gold silverware to eat with.

1220
01:07:11,430 --> 01:07:14,160
Brad Mills: And people were just like, buying stakes in aluminum mines

1221
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:17,550
Brad Mills: and all this stuff. Then what happened was the Industrial Revolution,

1222
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:21,419
Brad Mills: they realized that aluminum could be manufactured in mind and like,

1223
01:07:21,420 --> 01:07:24,340
Brad Mills: you know, purified and stuff at a much cheaper cost.

1224
01:07:24,340 --> 01:07:26,010
Brad Mills: And the tons of it, they started being able to

1225
01:07:26,010 --> 01:07:29,130
Brad Mills: dig lower and they found more of it. So the

1226
01:07:29,190 --> 01:07:33,930
Brad Mills: price of aluminum cratered against gold because eventually people got

1227
01:07:33,930 --> 01:07:37,050
Brad Mills: back into the same reality that, like gold, has certain

1228
01:07:37,050 --> 01:07:40,560
Brad Mills: properties as a commodity, whatever a property, a metal that

1229
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,590
Brad Mills: you can't replicate with other things. And even if the

1230
01:07:43,590 --> 01:07:46,050
Brad Mills: aluminum which ended up in the war in World War

1231
01:07:46,050 --> 01:07:50,280
Brad Mills: Two became the most used metal in World War Two,

1232
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,920
Brad Mills: like it was used for tanks and weapons and buildings

1233
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:57,900
Brad Mills: and everything, aluminum became extremely important as a useful thing.

1234
01:07:57,910 --> 01:08:01,140
Brad Mills: It had utility value, but that didn't mean that the

1235
01:08:01,140 --> 01:08:05,010
Brad Mills: price of aluminum skyrocketed. It was like the most used

1236
01:08:05,010 --> 01:08:08,250
Brad Mills: thing in terms of like a medal in history and

1237
01:08:08,340 --> 01:08:11,280
Brad Mills: during World War Two. But you don't invest in aluminum.

1238
01:08:11,550 --> 01:08:14,310
Brad Mills: So I like to think about Bitcoin as digital gold.

1239
01:08:14,550 --> 01:08:17,640
Brad Mills: And even if Etherium gets to like the promises of

1240
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:21,570
Brad Mills: old Defi, you know, Defi becomes the number one way

1241
01:08:21,570 --> 01:08:24,630
Brad Mills: to settle on the world. And all the derivatives markets

1242
01:08:24,689 --> 01:08:26,879
Brad Mills: move from Wall Street and they go on and there's

1243
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,660
Brad Mills: quadrillions of dollars of a volume happening on Ethereum Defi.

1244
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:34,380
Brad Mills: That doesn't mean that the East token is a better

1245
01:08:34,410 --> 01:08:38,190
Brad Mills: version of Bitcoin. That means it's digital aluminum, so it

1246
01:08:38,189 --> 01:08:41,460
Brad Mills: can have massive use and still be like going down

1247
01:08:41,460 --> 01:08:42,060
Brad Mills: in price.

1248
01:08:42,689 --> 01:08:45,030
Joel Comm: And you can learn more about aluminum on Twitter at

1249
01:08:45,030 --> 01:08:48,300
Joel Comm: aluminum can, but you can learn more about bread mills

1250
01:08:48,300 --> 01:08:50,460
Joel Comm: at bread mills can on Twitter.

1251
01:08:50,460 --> 01:08:52,230
Travis Wright: How's that? And here's a can.

1252
01:08:52,470 --> 01:08:53,180
Joel Comm: Has a camera.

1253
01:08:53,250 --> 01:08:54,040
Travis Wright: That I want to.

1254
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:55,800
Brad Mills: I got my bronze mug here.

1255
01:08:55,860 --> 01:08:58,230
Travis Wright: Oh, that's very nice. So how you know, I remember

1256
01:08:58,229 --> 01:09:00,180
Travis Wright: we were talking about this when crypto was at its

1257
01:09:00,180 --> 01:09:04,020
Travis Wright: all time highs and everything. Like, wasn't it like 130

1258
01:09:04,020 --> 01:09:07,850
Travis Wright: different projects were worth $1,000,000,000 or more? It was crazy.

1259
01:09:07,860 --> 01:09:10,110
Travis Wright: I don't even remember how many. Now it's 44 of

1260
01:09:10,110 --> 01:09:13,559
Travis Wright: them are. And I remember right, I was gauging that,

1261
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,320
Travis Wright: you know, in the other markets, like, all right. Is

1262
01:09:16,380 --> 01:09:19,080
Travis Wright: coming back and look and see because they got down

1263
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:22,950
Travis Wright: to I think well in the in the barest of

1264
01:09:22,950 --> 01:09:25,980
Travis Wright: the bears where there was only like maybe six that

1265
01:09:25,979 --> 01:09:29,040
Travis Wright: were $1,000,000,000 company in 2018 or something. 19.

1266
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:31,980
Brad Mills: Well you think like who who propped those markets up.

1267
01:09:31,979 --> 01:09:33,839
Brad Mills: Who pumped those coins up that high.

1268
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:36,300
Travis Wright: It was it was Trump.

1269
01:09:37,140 --> 01:09:37,590
Brad Mills: Trump.

1270
01:09:37,620 --> 01:09:38,610
Travis Wright: Every day. Trump did.

1271
01:09:38,610 --> 01:09:39,960
Brad Mills: It. Trump did it. Thanks.

1272
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:41,400
Travis Wright: TRUMP Thank you.

1273
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,219
Joel Comm: Trump just sent a missile into Poland. That was him

1274
01:09:44,220 --> 01:09:45,599
Joel Comm: as well. And he did everything.

1275
01:09:45,870 --> 01:09:46,379
Travis Wright: That did.

1276
01:09:46,450 --> 01:09:46,769
Brad Mills: Trump.

1277
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:48,450
Travis Wright: After he actually crashed.

1278
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:51,420
Brad Mills: So Trump did. FDX Yeah, well, that.

1279
01:09:51,420 --> 01:09:51,720
Travis Wright: Alone.

1280
01:09:52,380 --> 01:09:54,870
Joel Comm: Is to blame for everything. So, listen, you.

1281
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,269
Brad Mills: Got to think, though, that like the people that pumped

1282
01:09:57,270 --> 01:10:00,120
Brad Mills: all these coins to the billion market cap, they're losing

1283
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:01,950
Brad Mills: all their money right now. Yeah. And they're going to

1284
01:10:01,950 --> 01:10:05,189
Brad Mills: make the decision very soon, if not now, to pull

1285
01:10:05,189 --> 01:10:08,280
Brad Mills: out and to pull their liquidity and stop pumping all

1286
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:11,700
Brad Mills: the real money into all this fake money. Michael Saylor

1287
01:10:11,700 --> 01:10:13,830
Brad Mills: calls them air tokens. He's been doing that lately. And

1288
01:10:13,830 --> 01:10:16,740
Brad Mills: it's kind of a fun analogy because literally they're just

1289
01:10:16,740 --> 01:10:19,920
Brad Mills: built on air and all these crypto traders and investors

1290
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,469
Brad Mills: are off on the risk cliff. You know, it's not

1291
01:10:22,470 --> 01:10:25,260
Brad Mills: a risk curve. It's a risk Cliff, because you get

1292
01:10:25,260 --> 01:10:28,950
Brad Mills: off like Wiley Coyote, you're running off off the risk

1293
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:31,559
Brad Mills: cliff and you're sitting on air grabbing all these tokens

1294
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:35,820
Brad Mills: and thinking they're investments. You look down and there's nothing

1295
01:10:35,820 --> 01:10:36,540
Brad Mills: there and.

1296
01:10:36,540 --> 01:10:39,929
Joel Comm: You just somehow get them never dies. He plummets, he

1297
01:10:39,930 --> 01:10:42,900
Joel Comm: barely is wounded and he comes back and does it

1298
01:10:42,900 --> 01:10:44,939
Joel Comm: again and again and again, just.

1299
01:10:44,939 --> 01:10:47,700
Travis Wright: Like Brad Mills doing it again on the Bad Crypto podcast.

1300
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,690
Joel Comm: Yeah. Brad, go ahead and pimp yourself for a moment

1301
01:10:51,689 --> 01:10:54,390
Joel Comm: and tell people what you're what you're into, where they

1302
01:10:54,390 --> 01:10:56,490
Joel Comm: can find you, share websites, whatever.

1303
01:10:56,729 --> 01:11:00,300
Brad Mills: Honestly, you know, like I think the number one thing

1304
01:11:00,300 --> 01:11:03,740
Brad Mills: for your listeners I would really like if anybody just

1305
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,170
Brad Mills: got saved from Celsius or whatever from the last episode

1306
01:11:07,170 --> 01:11:11,010
Brad Mills: or whatever, like I would just really appreciate people take

1307
01:11:11,010 --> 01:11:14,760
Brad Mills: a serious look at like learning more about Bitcoin. And

1308
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:18,090
Brad Mills: the best resource for that is actually Preston Pierce's podcast.

1309
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:22,740
Brad Mills: He runs a podcast. He runs the Investor Network. It

1310
01:11:22,740 --> 01:11:25,559
Brad Mills: started off as a macro podcast talking about the the

1311
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,470
Brad Mills: stock markets and value investing, things like that. And then

1312
01:11:28,470 --> 01:11:31,589
Brad Mills: he started getting into Bitcoin. He created the mayor multiple

1313
01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:36,930
Brad Mills: and he's been my favorite Bitcoin commentator since. So don't,

1314
01:11:36,930 --> 01:11:38,870
Brad Mills: you know, don't follow me or pay attention to me,

1315
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,930
Brad Mills: just like start learning more about bitcoin and follow Preston

1316
01:11:42,930 --> 01:11:47,309
Brad Mills: Fisher's podcast. Follow him on. On Twitter and. That would

1317
01:11:47,310 --> 01:11:48,270
Brad Mills: that would make me feel good.

1318
01:11:48,300 --> 01:11:50,910
Joel Comm: There it is right there. That's very humble of you, sir.

1319
01:11:50,939 --> 01:11:54,479
Joel Comm: The investors podcast dot com. For those of you watching

1320
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:59,430
Joel Comm: and Travis, I think that irony would dictate that we

1321
01:11:59,430 --> 01:12:02,700
Joel Comm: should commemorate this episode with an NFT, don't you?

1322
01:12:03,810 --> 01:12:05,840
Travis Wright: Hey, don't be a pitch. Tired of that.

1323
01:12:06,870 --> 01:12:12,150
Joel Comm: So we'll talk about that here. And Brad. There's the dollar.

1324
01:12:12,180 --> 01:12:12,750
Joel Comm: What about it?

1325
01:12:12,900 --> 01:12:13,650
Travis Wright: No leader.

1326
01:12:15,750 --> 01:12:16,680
Brad Mills: It's my energy.

1327
01:12:17,220 --> 01:12:19,320
Joel Comm: Related nodes of Bitcoin. That's nice.

1328
01:12:19,410 --> 01:12:23,860
Brad Mills: These are my big. These are Bitcoin. Nfts. They're. Their

1329
01:12:23,860 --> 01:12:25,540
Brad Mills: physical pieces of art. They're not really.

1330
01:12:25,540 --> 01:12:29,260
Joel Comm: Actors. I love the really cool Bitcoin, excellent and physical art.

1331
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:33,790
Joel Comm: We appreciate you and I'm sure that we will have

1332
01:12:33,790 --> 01:12:34,809
Joel Comm: you back again.

1333
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:35,800
Brad Mills: Thanks again, guys.

1334
01:12:36,490 --> 01:12:38,290
Travis Wright: Now, it's actually bad every time we talk to you,

1335
01:12:38,290 --> 01:12:40,150
Travis Wright: it's shitty news, so we don't ever want to talk

1336
01:12:40,150 --> 01:12:40,630
Travis Wright: to you again.

1337
01:12:43,150 --> 01:12:47,620
Joel Comm: So, Trav, you know, you just reminded me that Jimmy Song,

1338
01:12:47,620 --> 01:12:50,439
Joel Comm: who was a recent guest on this show, had a

1339
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:52,810
Joel Comm: lot of negative things to say about an. He went

1340
01:12:52,810 --> 01:12:55,450
Joel Comm: on an epic rant. Do you remember that?

1341
01:12:55,870 --> 01:12:58,000
Travis Wright: Yeah, I was a it was a it was a

1342
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,690
Travis Wright: legendary rant. And it was funny cause we're like, yeah,

1343
01:13:01,689 --> 01:13:03,759
Travis Wright: we can debate him. And I debated him on some

1344
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:06,400
Travis Wright: staff and he just was just he just steamrolled on

1345
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:09,250
Travis Wright: it is like, so bullshit. So bullshit is bullshit. So

1346
01:13:09,250 --> 01:13:13,600
Travis Wright: bitcoin goes God bullshit. Everything else is bullshit. Beautiful shithole. Joel,

1347
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:17,890
Travis Wright: your Bushwick. You're not as much bullshit, but the bullshit too, right? Wow.

1348
01:13:17,900 --> 01:13:21,280
Joel Comm: So I found it. It was actually it was right

1349
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:25,060
Joel Comm: around the time we interviewed Brad. This, you know, episode

1350
01:13:25,060 --> 01:13:29,700
Joel Comm: was Nfts or a scam. It was April 10th of 2022.

1351
01:13:29,710 --> 01:13:32,170
Joel Comm: So if you want to go back and it looks

1352
01:13:32,170 --> 01:13:34,900
Joel Comm: like we do have video of it as well, right?

1353
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:36,610
Travis Wright: Okay. Wow, that's a big or.

1354
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,330
Joel Comm: That could make a great little NFT as well of

1355
01:13:40,330 --> 01:13:41,860
Joel Comm: him ranting on NFT is.

1356
01:13:42,610 --> 01:13:45,640
Travis Wright: Oh yeah, it was funny. He went to town all right.

1357
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:49,150
Travis Wright: Only Jimmy Song can do a Jimmy Song ran a

1358
01:13:49,150 --> 01:13:51,220
Travis Wright: train on a song. So.

1359
01:13:51,790 --> 01:13:53,710
Joel Comm: You know, Brad has a lot to say. Hopefully you

1360
01:13:53,710 --> 01:13:56,530
Joel Comm: guys follow him on Twitter at Brad Mills can. By

1361
01:13:56,530 --> 01:14:01,629
Joel Comm: the way this report Elon is starting to release the

1362
01:14:01,990 --> 01:14:04,960
Joel Comm: people who have been suspended. And it's it's a variety.

1363
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:08,110
Joel Comm: He's like looking at them and deciding case by case.

1364
01:14:08,110 --> 01:14:11,740
Joel Comm: But Jordan Peterson is back. The Babylon bee is back.

1365
01:14:11,950 --> 01:14:15,790
Joel Comm: And although I'm not a fan of her, I don't

1366
01:14:15,790 --> 01:14:18,639
Joel Comm: think that she should be banned. Kathy Griffin is back.

1367
01:14:18,850 --> 01:14:23,170
Travis Wright: And so it's funny there is that it's crazy. But

1368
01:14:23,170 --> 01:14:29,240
Travis Wright: he's he's let go 99.6% of the workforce has left

1369
01:14:29,500 --> 01:14:32,559
Travis Wright: basically 50 of the top because you don't need that

1370
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,230
Travis Wright: many employees. He's got the best of the best. I

1371
01:14:35,229 --> 01:14:40,180
Travis Wright: read this thread about how he's gone through and basically

1372
01:14:40,180 --> 01:14:43,690
Travis Wright: let people self-identify as who are the ones who kick

1373
01:14:43,700 --> 01:14:46,840
Travis Wright: ass and who are the ones who talk shit and

1374
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:48,670
Travis Wright: who are the ones who don't do shit, and the

1375
01:14:48,670 --> 01:14:51,100
Travis Wright: ones that don't do shit and talk shit were the

1376
01:14:51,100 --> 01:14:54,100
Travis Wright: loudest and then the ones that do shit. He saw

1377
01:14:54,100 --> 01:14:56,620
Travis Wright: that he kept all of them. And so I think

1378
01:14:56,620 --> 01:14:59,530
Travis Wright: what we're going to see is those people are going

1379
01:14:59,530 --> 01:15:01,870
Travis Wright: to be all on them. Then he's going to start

1380
01:15:01,870 --> 01:15:06,040
Travis Wright: hiring good people. And because really when you have really good,

1381
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,620
Travis Wright: productive people who know what the hell they're doing, these

1382
01:15:08,620 --> 01:15:12,430
Travis Wright: other people really slow them down, right? And so let

1383
01:15:12,430 --> 01:15:14,770
Travis Wright: them be part of the hiring and of great people

1384
01:15:14,770 --> 01:15:17,380
Travis Wright: later on, because I don't think you don't need 8000

1385
01:15:17,380 --> 01:15:20,830
Travis Wright: people around Twitter. You need 8000 people. If you're talking

1386
01:15:20,830 --> 01:15:24,220
Travis Wright: to every government and wheeling and dealing with every politician.

1387
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,700
Travis Wright: But from what I've seen, I catch heard even retweeted it.

1388
01:15:27,700 --> 01:15:30,939
Travis Wright: He said 99, it was a Tim Poole tweeted it

1389
01:15:31,180 --> 01:15:35,260
Travis Wright: said 99.6% of Twitter people are gone. He's down to

1390
01:15:35,260 --> 01:15:38,590
Travis Wright: the 50 very best employees. And now he's going to

1391
01:15:38,590 --> 01:15:40,990
Travis Wright: build that from there. Can you imagine if all of

1392
01:15:40,990 --> 01:15:45,009
Travis Wright: them were just so shitty? I haven't noticed any decline

1393
01:15:45,010 --> 01:15:48,900
Travis Wright: in Twitter yet. No, it's got more funny, actually.

1394
01:15:49,260 --> 01:15:52,770
Joel Comm: Yeah. So. And somebody said, Bring back Alex Jones. And

1395
01:15:52,770 --> 01:15:57,360
Joel Comm: Ellen responded, No. Which look, I understand why, you know,

1396
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,099
Joel Comm: he might not want to bring him back, but free

1397
01:15:59,100 --> 01:16:02,310
Joel Comm: speech is free speech. And if you don't let people

1398
01:16:02,310 --> 01:16:04,589
Joel Comm: come back, regardless of whether or not you like what

1399
01:16:04,590 --> 01:16:09,320
Joel Comm: they say is really free speech. So but he said.

1400
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:13,049
Travis Wright: Cancel the Alex Jones. Now, what's interesting is I paid

1401
01:16:13,050 --> 01:16:17,010
Travis Wright: attention to Alex Jones. And, you know, Alex Jones has

1402
01:16:17,010 --> 01:16:20,400
Travis Wright: been wrong about a few things. Well, my God, how

1403
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:22,570
Travis Wright: many things have the New York Times been wrong about?

1404
01:16:22,590 --> 01:16:25,630
Travis Wright: How many times is MSNBC's been wrong about some. It's

1405
01:16:25,650 --> 01:16:27,689
Travis Wright: the very first time I've ever seen somebody be wrong

1406
01:16:27,689 --> 01:16:31,679
Travis Wright: about something. And soon for $1,000,000,000. If every time MSNBC

1407
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,860
Travis Wright: or Fox News or CNN or some of these guys

1408
01:16:34,860 --> 01:16:37,740
Travis Wright: were wrong about something or lying about something, they got

1409
01:16:37,740 --> 01:16:42,570
Travis Wright: sued for $1,000,000,000 and they got canceled. I the thing is,

1410
01:16:42,570 --> 01:16:44,970
Travis Wright: they go off on him about the thing that happened

1411
01:16:44,970 --> 01:16:49,019
Travis Wright: in Connecticut. Right. And the shooting. And because he was

1412
01:16:49,170 --> 01:16:52,440
Travis Wright: I remember what he basically said was, yeah, there's it's

1413
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:55,020
Travis Wright: not exactly the story they're telling is not the correct one.

1414
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:57,480
Travis Wright: I don't think he ever said people didn't die, but

1415
01:16:57,650 --> 01:17:00,540
Travis Wright: he said the FBI was going in with them. And

1416
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:01,969
Travis Wright: and and now we all.

1417
01:17:02,420 --> 01:17:05,070
Joel Comm: Know he owes $1,000,000,000,000 or something ridiculous.

1418
01:17:05,070 --> 01:17:06,660
Travis Wright: It's so crazy. Wow.

1419
01:17:06,660 --> 01:17:09,690
Joel Comm: Whatever is a crazy times we live in. Thank you

1420
01:17:09,689 --> 01:17:13,650
Joel Comm: for joining us and letting us be your Sherpas. Or

1421
01:17:13,650 --> 01:17:16,379
Joel Comm: at least I'll being alongside you on this journey because

1422
01:17:16,380 --> 01:17:18,660
Joel Comm: that's what the show has always been from from the

1423
01:17:18,660 --> 01:17:22,349
Joel Comm: very first episode, it's Travis and Joel's exciting crypto adventure.

1424
01:17:22,530 --> 01:17:25,110
Joel Comm: We're still on this adventure five and a half years

1425
01:17:25,110 --> 01:17:30,000
Joel Comm: into it. We are the Splunk CRS of What's a

1426
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:31,170
Joel Comm: good s word for.

1427
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:34,259
Travis Wright: I would say this is that you're the Sherpa and

1428
01:17:34,260 --> 01:17:37,400
Travis Wright: the drop off of the surface.

1429
01:17:37,660 --> 01:17:43,019
Joel Comm: They're telling you to catch the next episode. And of course.

1430
01:18:00,990 --> 01:18:01,710
Travis Wright: Who's bad?

1431
01:18:03,500 --> 01:18:07,130
Joel Comm: The Bad Crypto podcast is a production of Bad Crypto LLC.

1432
01:18:07,310 --> 01:18:10,040
Joel Comm: The content of the show, the videos and the website

1433
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:14,150
Joel Comm: is provided for educational, informational and entertainment purposes only. It's

1434
01:18:14,150 --> 01:18:18,080
Joel Comm: not intended to be and does not constitute financial investment

1435
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:21,110
Joel Comm: or trading advice of any kind. You shouldn't make any

1436
01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:24,769
Joel Comm: decisions as to finances, investing, trading or anything else based

1437
01:18:24,770 --> 01:18:29,300
Joel Comm: on this information without undertaking independent due diligence in consultation

1438
01:18:29,300 --> 01:18:32,719
Joel Comm: with a professional financial advisor. Please understand that the trading

1439
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:37,760
Joel Comm: of Bitcoins and alternative cryptocurrencies have potential risks involved. Anyone

1440
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:40,160
Joel Comm: wishing to invest in any of the currencies or tokens

1441
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:43,519
Joel Comm: mentioned on this podcast should first seek their own independent

1442
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,380
Joel Comm: professional financial advisor.

1443
01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:47,510
Travis Wright: Share with our partner.

1444
01:18:53,300 --> 01:18:54,790
Travis Wright: I'm a bear finder bear.