1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:03,000 Joel Comm: A young man walks into the bar and says, Give 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,210 Joel Comm: me a vodka tonic. Unsure of the man's age, the 3 00:00:06,210 --> 00:00:09,810 Joel Comm: bartender must ask to see his ID in order to 4 00:00:09,810 --> 00:00:12,389 Joel Comm: prove that he is old enough to order the drink. 5 00:00:12,810 --> 00:00:15,750 Joel Comm: What if the bartender knew from the blockchain that the 6 00:00:15,750 --> 00:00:18,810 Joel Comm: guy was old enough without even asking for an ID? 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,370 Joel Comm: He'd be accepting proof with no knowledge of actually having 8 00:00:23,370 --> 00:00:28,260 Joel Comm: seen the proof. That's zero knowledge, proof or Z. K Pete. 9 00:00:28,650 --> 00:00:31,230 Joel Comm: Today on the show, we welcome Dore Garbus of the 10 00:00:31,230 --> 00:00:35,460 Joel Comm: Mina Foundation to discuss Z KPIs and why they're essential 11 00:00:35,460 --> 00:00:39,989 Joel Comm: to building a Web3 future with privacy and scalability in mind. 12 00:00:40,229 --> 00:00:43,080 Joel Comm: By the time we're done, you'll have proof that you've 13 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:49,080 Joel Comm: got some knowledge of zero knowledge proof and episode number 668. 14 00:00:50,380 --> 00:00:52,000 Joel Comm: Of the Bad Crypto podcast. 15 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:59,350 UU: Five, four, three. How are you all working the there? 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:09,640 UU: Who's bad? I. 17 00:01:20,550 --> 00:01:23,940 Joel Comm: And you have proof of listening right now. How do 18 00:01:23,940 --> 00:01:27,540 Joel Comm: we know? Because you're listening to this in your ears, 19 00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:29,670 Joel Comm: but we don't know that you're listening to it. So 20 00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:33,240 Joel Comm: I guess we've got no proof that you are because 21 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,220 Joel Comm: you're we don't know who it is. There's privacy, like 22 00:01:35,220 --> 00:01:36,780 Joel Comm: when you're listening to shows, right? Yeah. 23 00:01:37,470 --> 00:01:39,840 Travis Wright: That is actually really true. The only time that we 24 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,770 Travis Wright: know if you're real, who's tuning in is for one, 25 00:01:43,770 --> 00:01:46,020 Travis Wright: looking at our analytics and seeing the numbers. And then 26 00:01:46,020 --> 00:01:49,530 Travis Wright: to when you leave a review, mostly when you leave 27 00:01:49,530 --> 00:01:52,050 Travis Wright: a positive review is when we really know who you are. 28 00:01:52,050 --> 00:01:54,660 Travis Wright: But when you leave a negative review, it really helps 29 00:01:54,660 --> 00:01:57,570 Travis Wright: us peer into your soul and see how awful of 30 00:01:57,570 --> 00:01:58,620 Travis Wright: a person you truly are. 31 00:01:58,830 --> 00:02:00,930 Joel Comm: Yeah, and we've got one of those for today. But 32 00:02:00,930 --> 00:02:06,840 Joel Comm: we've also got we've got an introduction to Zero Knowledge 33 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,630 Joel Comm: Proof today, which I think is really interesting once you 34 00:02:09,630 --> 00:02:13,260 Joel Comm: understand exactly what this is all about. And so Lord 35 00:02:13,260 --> 00:02:17,220 Joel Comm: Travis is going to come up with a zero knowledge NFT, 36 00:02:17,220 --> 00:02:20,490 Joel Comm: a commemorative NFT that we are going to give away 37 00:02:20,490 --> 00:02:23,339 Joel Comm: for free. And we'll tell you how to do that 38 00:02:23,550 --> 00:02:27,510 Joel Comm: after our interview today. So, Trev, should we get on 39 00:02:27,510 --> 00:02:31,230 Joel Comm: with the show and and welcome door through the door. 40 00:02:31,410 --> 00:02:33,330 Travis Wright: Come on, baby. Light my fire. Let's go. 41 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,829 Joel Comm: There are many terminologies bandied about in the blockchain world, 42 00:02:41,830 --> 00:02:45,340 Joel Comm: and one of them that has surfaced again and again. 43 00:02:45,340 --> 00:02:49,360 Joel Comm: I must confess, I know very little about what this 44 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,639 Joel Comm: actually means and how it actually works. 45 00:02:51,860 --> 00:02:53,739 Travis Wright: Would you say would you say you have zero knowledge 46 00:02:53,740 --> 00:02:54,040 Travis Wright: about it? 47 00:02:54,070 --> 00:02:56,320 Joel Comm: I have zero knowledge about it and I am the 48 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:02,590 Joel Comm: proof that I have zero knowledge about Z CP'S zero 49 00:03:02,590 --> 00:03:06,750 Joel Comm: knowledge proof. And that's why I'm pleased to welcome Dawg 50 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,530 Joel Comm: Barbash to the show. He is with the MENA Protocol. 51 00:03:10,550 --> 00:03:12,520 Joel Comm: In fact, he is the head of the ecosystem at 52 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,070 Joel Comm: the MENA Foundation, and we're going to find out what 53 00:03:15,070 --> 00:03:17,470 Joel Comm: he means when he's going to tell us all about 54 00:03:17,470 --> 00:03:21,130 Joel Comm: Zeke's piece today. Dore, welcome to the Bad Crypto podcast, sir. 55 00:03:22,330 --> 00:03:23,830 Dor Garbash: Hello. Hello. Good to be here. 56 00:03:24,580 --> 00:03:27,670 Joel Comm: Good to have you. I really I know so little 57 00:03:27,669 --> 00:03:31,329 Joel Comm: about zero knowledge proof, and I want to learn today. 58 00:03:31,330 --> 00:03:36,130 Joel Comm: So why don't we start on a really high level? Like, 59 00:03:36,130 --> 00:03:39,190 Joel Comm: make it so easy that if I were a fifth 60 00:03:39,190 --> 00:03:42,640 Joel Comm: grader and you were explaining it to me, that I 61 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:43,450 Joel Comm: would understand. 62 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:50,080 Dor Garbash: Yeah, sure. I'll do my best. I think the maybe 63 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,150 Dor Garbash: let's start by why is it good for why do 64 00:03:52,150 --> 00:03:54,640 Dor Garbash: we even care about the KP? I think that's a 65 00:03:54,640 --> 00:04:00,040 Dor Garbash: really great way to start. Okay, three, three main things. Why? Why? 66 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,230 Dor Garbash: This is even like a thing that you need to learn. 67 00:04:03,790 --> 00:04:08,950 Dor Garbash: So first of all, scalability. Okay, We know. We know 68 00:04:08,950 --> 00:04:11,710 Dor Garbash: in blockchain space we have a tiny bit of issue 69 00:04:11,710 --> 00:04:17,110 Dor Garbash: around scalability and their knowledge. Proof is is one way 70 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:23,080 Dor Garbash: to to address it. And you actually see significant activity 71 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:29,020 Dor Garbash: on there too, that are building scalability solutions using ZEEK APIs. Okay. 72 00:04:29,650 --> 00:04:34,359 Dor Garbash: The second one we call it for synchronous. Okay. If 73 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:40,850 Dor Garbash: you look at if you think about. Like blockchains like 74 00:04:41,029 --> 00:04:45,169 Dor Garbash: Ethereum or a lot of other blockchains where you have 75 00:04:45,170 --> 00:04:50,920 Dor Garbash: all these miners staking faking polls, you know, that that 76 00:04:50,930 --> 00:04:53,690 Dor Garbash: need to validate the blockchain to make sure it's decentralized. 77 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,800 Dor Garbash: One of the things that one of the big hurdles 78 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,480 Dor Garbash: they have is the fact they have to download the 79 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:04,279 Dor Garbash: entire fricking blockchain to validate it. And now it's like 80 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,029 Dor Garbash: many gigabytes of size. And actually it's going to grow 81 00:05:08,029 --> 00:05:09,789 Dor Garbash: and grow and grow over time to be terabytes of 82 00:05:09,830 --> 00:05:13,100 Dor Garbash: size at 1.21 gigawatts. 83 00:05:14,089 --> 00:05:15,410 Travis Wright: But why? Right. So much? 84 00:05:16,910 --> 00:05:20,180 Dor Garbash: That's right. Yeah, but it makes it you know, but 85 00:05:20,180 --> 00:05:24,920 Dor Garbash: it makes this idea of decentralization less accessible for everyday people. And, 86 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,480 Dor Garbash: you know, you just need to have like a giant 87 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,140 Dor Garbash: server farm, etc.. So with the K proofs you can 88 00:05:30,140 --> 00:05:36,050 Dor Garbash: actually and what minute they're, they've actually compressed, condensed this, this, 89 00:05:36,050 --> 00:05:41,020 Dor Garbash: this validation from many, many gigabytes into 22 kilobytes of 90 00:05:41,029 --> 00:05:43,700 Dor Garbash: something that can fit on your wrist and your pocket watch, 91 00:05:43,700 --> 00:05:47,330 Dor Garbash: you know, a smartphone. And I think the third one, 92 00:05:47,660 --> 00:05:54,200 Dor Garbash: and which I personally find the most exciting, is privacy. Okay. 93 00:05:54,260 --> 00:05:56,589 Dor Garbash: We know this is a big, big topic right now. 94 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,950 Dor Garbash: I think everybody cares right now about privacy and how 95 00:06:01,250 --> 00:06:03,919 Dor Garbash: every day it seems like, you know, our life is 96 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,640 Dor Garbash: becoming less and less private. We're getting more and more surveilled, 97 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,360 Dor Garbash: less feel urgency about where our data even comes from. 98 00:06:12,330 --> 00:06:15,780 Dor Garbash: And here's zero knowledge proof. This is a bit like 99 00:06:15,779 --> 00:06:19,289 Dor Garbash: dark magic. Okay? It can. It gives you the ability. 100 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:26,270 Dor Garbash: To prove, you know, something without revealing what it is 101 00:06:26,270 --> 00:06:30,859 Dor Garbash: that you know to the other party. So I give 102 00:06:30,860 --> 00:06:36,780 Dor Garbash: you an example. Let's say I want to buy a beer. Okay. 103 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,320 Dor Garbash: And I need to prove to someone I'm over 21. 104 00:06:40,250 --> 00:06:42,770 Dor Garbash: I don't know. And it's over 21 or 18, but 105 00:06:42,890 --> 00:06:43,489 Dor Garbash: I can. 106 00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:46,480 Travis Wright: I can approve you. You look like you're over 21. Oh, yeah. 107 00:06:47,339 --> 00:06:48,169 Dor Garbash: Yeah, yeah. 108 00:06:48,529 --> 00:06:49,740 Joel Comm: He's just a very hurt. 109 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,719 Dor Garbash: Someone asked me how I did this to. It's never 110 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:59,660 Dor Garbash: happens to me. But, you know, with their knowledge, first 111 00:06:59,690 --> 00:07:02,810 Dor Garbash: you can prove you're 21 without saying how exactly old 112 00:07:02,810 --> 00:07:06,229 Dor Garbash: you are. Right. Like the bartender should have. No. Like, 113 00:07:06,950 --> 00:07:10,220 Dor Garbash: why should the bartender know you're whatever, 43? You know, 114 00:07:10,220 --> 00:07:15,330 Dor Garbash: that's none of their concern, so. And so this way, 115 00:07:15,330 --> 00:07:17,429 Dor Garbash: with using this proof, you can you can do it. 116 00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:20,550 Dor Garbash: And a lot of different types of data, you know, 117 00:07:20,550 --> 00:07:27,890 Dor Garbash: from like showing your for example, that your. Eligible to 118 00:07:27,890 --> 00:07:32,510 Dor Garbash: apply for a loan without printing out your bank account 119 00:07:32,510 --> 00:07:36,830 Dor Garbash: in detail and showing all your audio bank transactions and 120 00:07:36,830 --> 00:07:39,440 Dor Garbash: of the balances in all your account and spreading it 121 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:40,430 Dor Garbash: to many, many people. 122 00:07:41,310 --> 00:07:44,880 Joel Comm: And it's kind of like being precourt, like being pre-qualified 123 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,090 Joel Comm: for a loan, right? You're like, you gone to the banks, 124 00:07:48,090 --> 00:07:49,770 Joel Comm: you're qualified, and now you're going to go to a 125 00:07:49,770 --> 00:07:56,490 Joel Comm: lender and and the bank has vouched for you. Now 126 00:07:56,490 --> 00:07:59,610 Joel Comm: they're going to ask for proof of that, right? But 127 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,970 Joel Comm: it's the same basic concept, right? 128 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,140 Dor Garbash: Yeah, I can basically I can mathematically prove to you 129 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,800 Dor Garbash: that I'm indeed over 21, you know, and I have 130 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,230 Dor Garbash: mathematical proof to believe it, and I don't need to 131 00:08:13,710 --> 00:08:17,130 Dor Garbash: take out my I.D. or I don't need to print 132 00:08:17,130 --> 00:08:21,810 Dor Garbash: out my bank records and I can prove I'm a 133 00:08:21,810 --> 00:08:25,850 Dor Garbash: real human without sharing with you my Social Security number. 134 00:08:25,860 --> 00:08:29,250 Dor Garbash: You know, all this stuff. And it's it's a game changer. 135 00:08:29,580 --> 00:08:32,340 Dor Garbash: It's a game. Like, it's hard to think about it 136 00:08:32,340 --> 00:08:34,260 Dor Garbash: because we live in a world where we have to 137 00:08:34,260 --> 00:08:37,109 Dor Garbash: do that stuff, like, all the time. So we kind 138 00:08:37,110 --> 00:08:42,239 Dor Garbash: of take it as, you know, for granted. But in 139 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:48,200 Dor Garbash: kind of like both, let's say, zero knowledge privacy world. And. 140 00:08:49,620 --> 00:08:51,930 Dor Garbash: People will be able to do a lot more things 141 00:08:52,410 --> 00:08:56,100 Dor Garbash: without being afraid about their identity being exposed or their 142 00:08:56,100 --> 00:08:58,950 Dor Garbash: private information being exposed. It will enable us to do. 143 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:05,160 Dor Garbash: Way more things in our everyday lives. I mean, you know, 144 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,950 Dor Garbash: I think just like the basic really basic stuff, like 145 00:09:08,070 --> 00:09:13,199 Dor Garbash: being able to to vote, okay, Like everybody on this 146 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:18,140 Dor Garbash: planet being able to vote. Proving you're a real person, 147 00:09:18,140 --> 00:09:20,420 Dor Garbash: you know, you have legitimacy to to vote, but not 148 00:09:20,420 --> 00:09:24,590 Dor Garbash: to be afraid that your identity or your vote, you know, 149 00:09:24,590 --> 00:09:28,850 Dor Garbash: becomes known to some ruler. Okay. Like so again, as 150 00:09:28,850 --> 00:09:35,170 Dor Garbash: Americans or Westerners, we kind of take these things. It's 151 00:09:35,170 --> 00:09:37,900 Dor Garbash: pretty obvious, but it's actually not a right that's universally 152 00:09:37,900 --> 00:09:40,090 Dor Garbash: accessible for everybody on this planet. 153 00:09:41,260 --> 00:09:44,640 Travis Wright: And yeah, it sounds it sounds interesting what you're talking about, 154 00:09:44,650 --> 00:09:46,599 Travis Wright: but I think that there's still a core part of 155 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,340 Travis Wright: this that people don't understand yet. Right. It sounds great. Okay. 156 00:09:50,350 --> 00:09:52,630 Travis Wright: Zero knowledge proof. You don't need you don't need knowledge 157 00:09:52,630 --> 00:09:54,190 Travis Wright: to be able to do that. But how is it 158 00:09:54,190 --> 00:09:57,250 Travis Wright: not manipulated? How is it that it knows it goes 159 00:09:57,250 --> 00:10:00,670 Travis Wright: with proof of work? I'm able to see the blockchain. 160 00:10:00,670 --> 00:10:03,160 Travis Wright: I'm able to see all the transactions. It can be 161 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,730 Travis Wright: proved that this is accurate. That's not accurate. If you're 162 00:10:06,730 --> 00:10:09,280 Travis Wright: condensing that down to 22 kilobytes and it can be 163 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,130 Travis Wright: on a thing, how exactly does that work and how 164 00:10:12,130 --> 00:10:15,790 Travis Wright: exactly is that a better system that would not be manipulated? 165 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,739 Dor Garbash: Yeah. I think this is yeah, I think, you know, 166 00:10:20,740 --> 00:10:23,550 Dor Garbash: it's kind of funny because I think also behind the, 167 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,590 Dor Garbash: you know, these abstractions of the blockchains, you kind of 168 00:10:26,590 --> 00:10:34,150 Dor Garbash: have extremely complicated cryptographic mechanisms, right, that are not really 169 00:10:34,870 --> 00:10:37,540 Dor Garbash: not everyday person can understand them, you know, But although 170 00:10:37,540 --> 00:10:40,059 Dor Garbash: they are do end up end up in the blockchain. 171 00:10:40,750 --> 00:10:44,939 Dor Garbash: So as you know, as proof, it's actually very, very, very, 172 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:50,329 Dor Garbash: very similar. There is a bunch of. Cryptographic primitives like 173 00:10:50,330 --> 00:10:55,880 Dor Garbash: this very high math that I probably don't want to 174 00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:58,309 Dor Garbash: make now. And I'm actually not sure if I could 175 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,100 Dor Garbash: be the best person. Like, you know, I'm not like 176 00:11:01,730 --> 00:11:04,610 Dor Garbash: a technical genius. Like other people in the foundation. 177 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:05,449 Joel Comm: Travis could. 178 00:11:05,450 --> 00:11:06,000 Dor Garbash: Go into. 179 00:11:06,020 --> 00:11:08,780 Joel Comm: My maths, just give him a moment to light up 180 00:11:08,780 --> 00:11:10,340 Joel Comm: and give him some equations. 181 00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:12,800 Travis Wright: Well, the thing is that our listeners, our listeners, a 182 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,750 Travis Wright: lot of them, you know, they're kind of new getting 183 00:11:14,750 --> 00:11:17,060 Travis Wright: into the space or they're trying to sort of get 184 00:11:17,059 --> 00:11:20,510 Travis Wright: a general gist of what it means. And it sounds interesting. 185 00:11:20,750 --> 00:11:24,200 Travis Wright: Zero zero protocol you zero proof. You don't need, you know, 186 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,500 Travis Wright: zero knowledge proof, Right. Okay. So you don't need knowledge 187 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:30,200 Travis Wright: to be able to do this. But that goes against 188 00:11:30,290 --> 00:11:32,060 Travis Wright: a lot of what we've told a lot of people 189 00:11:32,059 --> 00:11:34,340 Travis Wright: throughout the years is that you need to have some 190 00:11:34,340 --> 00:11:37,070 Travis Wright: of this proof. That's what makes blockchain great, is you 191 00:11:37,070 --> 00:11:40,850 Travis Wright: can tell this, oh, this $10 here is this person's 192 00:11:40,850 --> 00:11:42,980 Travis Wright: it's in this wallet now it's moved over to this 193 00:11:42,980 --> 00:11:46,010 Travis Wright: person's wallet. So I think that maybe the the Z 194 00:11:46,130 --> 00:11:49,370 Travis Wright: Z copy of it all is a little confusing is like, 195 00:11:49,730 --> 00:11:52,790 Travis Wright: who's the oracle who holds that truth? And if we 196 00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:53,420 Travis Wright: don't know it. 197 00:11:54,830 --> 00:11:57,380 Dor Garbash: Yeah, it is. So it's actually in that way it's very, 198 00:11:57,380 --> 00:12:02,190 Dor Garbash: very similar to the blockchain. Right. So you have. You know, 199 00:12:02,190 --> 00:12:06,120 Dor Garbash: the entire blockchain and payments. You know, it's all it's 200 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,930 Dor Garbash: all basically about math, right? It's all about these cryptographic 201 00:12:09,929 --> 00:12:14,729 Dor Garbash: primitives that that work and cannot be broken or hacked to. 202 00:12:15,179 --> 00:12:17,940 Dor Garbash: And this is just 200 notes. Perfect. Just this is 203 00:12:17,940 --> 00:12:25,050 Dor Garbash: just applies for. For proving computations in the same way 204 00:12:25,050 --> 00:12:30,490 Dor Garbash: that you prove transactions. So, you know, without getting too 205 00:12:30,490 --> 00:12:33,700 Dor Garbash: much into the details, there's some hard math in the 206 00:12:33,700 --> 00:12:37,000 Dor Garbash: background that that works and makes sure that the proof 207 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,790 Dor Garbash: is legit. And this is actually like the proof you 208 00:12:39,790 --> 00:12:46,280 Dor Garbash: claiming to have. Is actually like a hard proof. Of course, 209 00:12:46,309 --> 00:12:52,520 Dor Garbash: this requires significant computational research says. But again, this thing 210 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,910 Dor Garbash: for you, you will be able to see them on 211 00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:56,510 Dor Garbash: the blockchain. 212 00:12:57,140 --> 00:13:00,730 Joel Comm: Yeah, because when we're talking about proof or it's 100% 213 00:13:00,740 --> 00:13:02,929 Joel Comm: like there's no well, we think we can prove it. 214 00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:06,770 Joel Comm: It needs to be factual. It needs to be completely legitimate. 215 00:13:06,980 --> 00:13:10,070 Joel Comm: So when we're talking about privacy especially, which I would 216 00:13:10,070 --> 00:13:14,660 Joel Comm: imagine is the biggest concern for people that are supporting 217 00:13:14,660 --> 00:13:18,320 Joel Comm: and looking at ways to move zero knowledge proof forward, 218 00:13:18,740 --> 00:13:23,390 Joel Comm: there can be no ambiguity, just like the Bitcoin blockchain 219 00:13:23,390 --> 00:13:26,810 Joel Comm: has to be completely accurate. There's no room for error 220 00:13:26,809 --> 00:13:30,500 Joel Comm: in the ledger whatsoever. Not even one Satoshi can be 221 00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:35,720 Joel Comm: off zero knowledge. Proof means this is completely accurate. There's 222 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,870 Joel Comm: no room for fake news in this protocol. 223 00:13:41,940 --> 00:13:45,930 Dor Garbash: Yeah. I mean, it's at least about the specific facts 224 00:13:45,929 --> 00:13:50,130 Dor Garbash: that are being computed and taken as inputs. So it's 225 00:13:50,130 --> 00:13:51,990 Dor Garbash: kind of like, you know, in the end of it all, 226 00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:55,940 Dor Garbash: you know, it's, you know. In theory, you could have 227 00:13:55,940 --> 00:13:58,579 Dor Garbash: fake news, although like the specific fact, you know, about 228 00:13:58,580 --> 00:14:02,000 Dor Garbash: the person's age being above a certain number, you know, 229 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,969 Dor Garbash: it will be true and it will be proven. You know, 230 00:14:05,510 --> 00:14:07,939 Dor Garbash: there's still a limit to what what can be proven 231 00:14:07,940 --> 00:14:08,720 Dor Garbash: and actually proven. 232 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,199 Travis Wright: And now I think, you know, a lot of what's 233 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,130 Travis Wright: happening on Ethereum is the scalability is not good. I mean, 234 00:14:16,130 --> 00:14:18,109 Travis Wright: I saw a tweet just the other day from a 235 00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:22,910 Travis Wright: top game developer who said, look, though, most blockchain gaming 236 00:14:22,910 --> 00:14:25,310 Travis Wright: is not going to happen on Ethereum. It just can't 237 00:14:25,310 --> 00:14:29,300 Travis Wright: because it can't process enough power at one time. There's 238 00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:32,330 Travis Wright: not enough transactions and it would cost way too much 239 00:14:32,330 --> 00:14:37,040 Travis Wright: money and gas to play some of these games on Ethereum. Now, 240 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,530 Travis Wright: what you're saying to us, it seems like, is that 241 00:14:39,530 --> 00:14:43,670 Travis Wright: with the Z pick Z, KCP excuse me, zero knowledge 242 00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:47,120 Travis Wright: proof is that you have an oracle that says, Here's 243 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,480 Travis Wright: the truth and we have to trust that. But then 244 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,490 Travis Wright: we could do a lot more transactions per second. So 245 00:14:53,490 --> 00:14:58,580 Travis Wright: it would seem like Web3 metaverse, blockchain gaming, game fight 246 00:14:58,580 --> 00:15:01,700 Travis Wright: type of stuff, play to earn could work a lot better, 247 00:15:01,940 --> 00:15:04,430 Travis Wright: maybe on one of these types of things. And you 248 00:15:04,430 --> 00:15:08,060 Travis Wright: said that Z KCP is like a blockchain. Are you 249 00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:09,650 Travis Wright: saying it's not a blockchain? 250 00:15:11,950 --> 00:15:15,760 Dor Garbash: No. So if you if you think about it, to 251 00:15:15,830 --> 00:15:19,910 Dor Garbash: go first of all, like. You don't need to trust 252 00:15:20,210 --> 00:15:22,910 Dor Garbash: someone who provides as copy, you know, because you can. 253 00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:26,290 Dor Garbash: You can compute it yourself. Okay. So you can run. 254 00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:29,930 Dor Garbash: You can validate and run this calculation. It's the same 255 00:15:29,930 --> 00:15:37,830 Dor Garbash: s And I think a secondary thing is am. That? Yeah, 256 00:15:38,010 --> 00:15:40,200 Dor Garbash: One of one of the key things that can happen 257 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,440 Dor Garbash: in a business that can happen off chain, like the 258 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,450 Dor Garbash: computation can be off chain and you can actually. And 259 00:15:48,450 --> 00:15:49,860 Dor Garbash: I think this is like the stuff, it's kind of 260 00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:54,620 Dor Garbash: it's hard to wrap around. You can actually. Prove a 261 00:15:54,630 --> 00:16:00,620 Dor Garbash: certain computation actually took took place. Okay. So it's actually like. 262 00:16:01,750 --> 00:16:03,910 Dor Garbash: Better than Oracle's in a way, because you don't need 263 00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:09,890 Dor Garbash: to trust. And if you don't need to trust the Oracle. Am. 264 00:16:11,510 --> 00:16:14,900 Dor Garbash: So I think the physical piece is a group is 265 00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:21,070 Dor Garbash: a cryptographic primitive. And it's not necessarily a blockchain per se, 266 00:16:21,250 --> 00:16:25,630 Dor Garbash: but blockchain can use this cryptographic primitives. So Mina uses 267 00:16:25,630 --> 00:16:31,360 Dor Garbash: descriptor back to back cryptographic primitive, you know, to make 268 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,620 Dor Garbash: the broth, to make the blockchain process more succinct. Or 269 00:16:34,630 --> 00:16:39,460 Dor Garbash: we use this primitive to build zero knowledge apps. So 270 00:16:39,460 --> 00:16:43,570 Dor Garbash: privacy preserving apps. But but it's not the same as, 271 00:16:43,570 --> 00:16:46,090 Dor Garbash: you know, it's just another technology that can be on 272 00:16:46,090 --> 00:16:47,260 Dor Garbash: top of auction. 273 00:16:47,470 --> 00:16:52,540 Joel Comm: You guys call this programmable privacy, right? So why or 274 00:16:52,570 --> 00:16:57,670 Joel Comm: why is zero knowledge proof so essential for the Web3 275 00:16:57,670 --> 00:17:02,350 Joel Comm: experience going forward as opposed to what are we what 276 00:17:02,350 --> 00:17:05,470 Joel Comm: do we have right now apart from zero knowledge proof 277 00:17:05,740 --> 00:17:09,130 Joel Comm: one knowledge proof like what's what is? If you're not 278 00:17:09,130 --> 00:17:11,980 Joel Comm: using zero knowledge proof, what are you using? You're using 279 00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:14,229 Joel Comm: a public blockchain, right? 280 00:17:16,260 --> 00:17:20,880 Dor Garbash: Yeah. Using a public blockchain, which has a lot of benefits. But, 281 00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:26,400 Dor Garbash: you know, let's put this analogy in your everyday life, right? Like, 282 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,240 Dor Garbash: imagine that every single transaction you make with your your 283 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,000 Dor Garbash: credit card and purchase is going to be forever posted 284 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,720 Dor Garbash: on the public ledger and everybody can see it, which 285 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,540 Dor Garbash: is basically what's going on, you know, a second or 286 00:17:39,540 --> 00:17:42,450 Dor Garbash: a second way to look at it. Think about if 287 00:17:42,450 --> 00:17:48,630 Dor Garbash: every time you you voted or. If for something or 288 00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:52,710 Dor Garbash: signal something, you know, everything is like under public forever, 289 00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:55,350 Dor Garbash: even if it's like 50 years from now, you know, 290 00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:58,200 Dor Garbash: and like where we're at, anything we're saying now would 291 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,430 Dor Garbash: probably be like, not, not be fit, right? You know, 292 00:18:02,430 --> 00:18:05,190 Dor Garbash: everybody can everybody can access it and connect it to 293 00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:12,640 Dor Garbash: you and your your offerings. Okay. Like the zero privacy here. And, 294 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,570 Dor Garbash: you know, this is actually I would say probably like 295 00:18:16,570 --> 00:18:18,730 Dor Garbash: this is worse than what's going on in Europe, too. 296 00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:23,490 Dor Garbash: In terms of privacy, at least at least in some applications, 297 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,660 Dor Garbash: you know that that private information is only visible to 298 00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:31,919 Dor Garbash: a few corporations. Right. Or, you know, corporations and governments 299 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,660 Dor Garbash: and not generally to the entire public. 300 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,440 Travis Wright: And they love that. Right. The governments love the fact 301 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,770 Travis Wright: that you can go in and trace where that Bitcoin 302 00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:43,440 Travis Wright: came from. You can go in and trace where that 303 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,739 Travis Wright: Etherium came from originally. But what you're saying is you're 304 00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:51,030 Travis Wright: going to go from zero privacy to a zero knowledge proof, 305 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,170 Travis Wright: which will then sort of mask your identity but still 306 00:18:55,170 --> 00:18:58,440 Travis Wright: allow you to transact. It seems to me that that's 307 00:18:58,440 --> 00:18:59,940 Travis Wright: going to be something they're going to try to outlaw 308 00:18:59,970 --> 00:19:02,520 Travis Wright: down the road, too, as they move towards this, the 309 00:19:02,530 --> 00:19:04,440 Travis Wright: central bank digital currency type thing. 310 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,230 Dor Garbash: I think there's actually a wide variety of privacy use cases. 311 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,669 Dor Garbash: And yeah, it's. I you know, I don't know what 312 00:19:15,670 --> 00:19:19,210 Dor Garbash: what people would like to legislate then or not. I 313 00:19:19,210 --> 00:19:23,770 Dor Garbash: just know that I just believe that that a world where. 314 00:19:24,810 --> 00:19:29,520 Dor Garbash: Individual privacy is is protected if is a better world. 315 00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:33,240 Joel Comm: This is different than like like a monero or a 316 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,840 Joel Comm: Zcash where it's a masked address, but there's still a 317 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:41,670 Joel Comm: public chain where you can see the transaction that took place, right? 318 00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:46,290 Joel Comm: I'm assuming that somehow this is like next level from that. 319 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,919 Dor Garbash: Well. Well, first of all, like, like, you know, make 320 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:58,310 Dor Garbash: me know layer one is is public and accessible, but. Yeah, 321 00:19:58,310 --> 00:20:02,950 Dor Garbash: when you do. When you when you were using the 322 00:20:03,010 --> 00:20:08,130 Dor Garbash: K apps. Yeah. That's a that's a that's a different matter. 323 00:20:08,130 --> 00:20:10,800 Dor Garbash: And then yeah, you can benefit from all these like. 324 00:20:11,869 --> 00:20:12,810 Dor Garbash: Privacy features. 325 00:20:12,869 --> 00:20:17,330 Joel Comm: So so we're both really deep into Nfts. How do 326 00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:23,660 Joel Comm: you see zero knowledge proof applying to, you know, Nfts and, and, 327 00:20:24,260 --> 00:20:28,220 Joel Comm: you know, gaming assets and metaverse, all of this, especially 328 00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:30,950 Joel Comm: when we're talking metaverse, we're really, you know, privacy could 329 00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:32,750 Joel Comm: be a huge issue for people. 330 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,380 Dor Garbash: Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, if you can think 331 00:20:38,380 --> 00:20:42,690 Dor Garbash: about it together. That's very fascinating. I think. I think just. Well, 332 00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:45,610 Dor Garbash: I think privately owning and if it is as a starter, 333 00:20:45,630 --> 00:20:49,240 Dor Garbash: that's like a pretty good, good start. I also believe 334 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,700 Dor Garbash: that a lot of initiatives are kind of used as 335 00:20:51,970 --> 00:20:55,359 Dor Garbash: almost like a reputation system. Okay. Like kind of a 336 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,119 Dor Garbash: way for you to. Showing you you've been to places, 337 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,000 Dor Garbash: you accomplished things, right? You get an NFT, you know, 338 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,500 Dor Garbash: it's almost becomes like a diploma. So I think people 339 00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:13,000 Dor Garbash: can start to add. You know, do good. Provide value. 340 00:21:13,030 --> 00:21:18,940 Dor Garbash: Get recognized without revealing their entire identity. And I think 341 00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:21,159 Dor Garbash: this is great, you know, especially if you think about. 342 00:21:22,090 --> 00:21:24,730 Dor Garbash: All the other spaces in third world countries where people 343 00:21:24,730 --> 00:21:33,990 Dor Garbash: don't even have basic human rights. And. Yeah. I don't know, like. 344 00:21:35,030 --> 00:21:37,820 Dor Garbash: Are there any other use cases you are also interested 345 00:21:37,820 --> 00:21:39,639 Dor Garbash: in or fascinated with? And if this is kind of 346 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,790 Dor Garbash: not my not my expertise, but it's very fun conversation. 347 00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:45,919 Travis Wright: I think it's interesting when you when you're just talking 348 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,780 Travis Wright: about all of the use cases. And so I'm looking 349 00:21:47,780 --> 00:21:49,640 Travis Wright: at some other product, you know, some other places right 350 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,220 Travis Wright: now where it's talking about, you know, for one, the 351 00:21:52,220 --> 00:21:55,689 Travis Wright: blockchain side of things, finance and how Zeke, Zeke, KP 352 00:21:55,730 --> 00:21:58,790 Travis Wright: is going to work on that. Online voting sounds really 353 00:21:58,790 --> 00:22:01,609 Travis Wright: interesting to me because there's a huge problem when it 354 00:22:01,609 --> 00:22:04,220 Travis Wright: comes to just mail in voting where you can where 355 00:22:04,220 --> 00:22:07,280 Travis Wright: the mail in votes get sent to different addresses, sometimes 356 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,830 Travis Wright: multiple people at one address, they fill them all out, 357 00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:12,380 Travis Wright: drop them in a box, that vote just gets counted 358 00:22:12,380 --> 00:22:14,990 Travis Wright: and that's not legit. So I would love to know 359 00:22:15,380 --> 00:22:20,510 Travis Wright: how does Zero Knowledge proof work in online voting and 360 00:22:20,510 --> 00:22:23,120 Travis Wright: what is the best use case that you've seen so 361 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,139 Travis Wright: far with online voting So people could participate in something 362 00:22:27,140 --> 00:22:29,780 Travis Wright: like that so they could get a feel for how 363 00:22:29,780 --> 00:22:31,939 Travis Wright: legit it is? Because I don't think people at the 364 00:22:31,940 --> 00:22:34,699 Travis Wright: beginning is going to trust it until they learn to 365 00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:35,180 Travis Wright: trust it. 366 00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:40,280 Dor Garbash: Yeah, that makes sense, I think. Yeah, Well, Ted, generally 367 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,790 Dor Garbash: there's a bit of a legitimacy challenge right now for 368 00:22:43,790 --> 00:22:47,300 Dor Garbash: democracies around the world where the legitimacy of democracies are 369 00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:52,310 Dor Garbash: constantly challenged. And yeah, and I think having, having mathematical 370 00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:56,190 Dor Garbash: proofs that, you know, your vote has been, you know, 371 00:22:56,210 --> 00:22:59,690 Dor Garbash: your vote is real and being counted is actually would 372 00:22:59,690 --> 00:23:04,780 Dor Garbash: be extremely valuable in that context. And. Let's see. What 373 00:23:04,780 --> 00:23:05,990 Dor Garbash: what was your second question? 374 00:23:07,470 --> 00:23:11,580 Travis Wright: And my question was about what what sort of online 375 00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:15,090 Travis Wright: voting is out there now? Is there a use case 376 00:23:15,090 --> 00:23:18,030 Travis Wright: for that where people can go and do online voting 377 00:23:18,030 --> 00:23:20,910 Travis Wright: and see how it works? And then because I know 378 00:23:20,910 --> 00:23:24,510 Travis Wright: that there's people who are working on different forms of 379 00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:28,830 Travis Wright: trying to help people with legislation. Right. To actually give 380 00:23:28,830 --> 00:23:30,810 Travis Wright: power back to the people. And it seems to me 381 00:23:30,810 --> 00:23:34,170 Travis Wright: like this could be something that could help give power 382 00:23:34,170 --> 00:23:37,169 Travis Wright: back to the people if it's trustworthy. Right. So people 383 00:23:37,170 --> 00:23:39,420 Travis Wright: have to become excuse me, people have to become familiar 384 00:23:39,420 --> 00:23:44,070 Travis Wright: with that. So what what is working People go to 385 00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:48,770 Travis Wright: test online voting with with zero knowledge right now. Is 386 00:23:48,770 --> 00:23:49,190 Travis Wright: there a place? 387 00:23:49,220 --> 00:23:54,139 Dor Garbash: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. So. And before I 388 00:23:54,140 --> 00:23:57,740 Dor Garbash: worked in Muni, I was head of governance in HK, 389 00:23:57,740 --> 00:24:04,199 Dor Garbash: which is a cardano's main. Main development company. And where. 390 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:10,379 Dor Garbash: There we develop privacy. Privacy. Preserving voting. Using the KPIs 391 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,970 Dor Garbash: that actually powered our innovation fund that had more than 392 00:24:14,970 --> 00:24:21,030 Dor Garbash: 50,000 voters participating and using this mechanism, we funded more 393 00:24:21,030 --> 00:24:26,940 Dor Garbash: than a thousand blockchain projects. And with and right now 394 00:24:26,940 --> 00:24:31,239 Dor Garbash: in meNow, we're going to do something similar. And we're 395 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,450 Dor Garbash: basically just you know, we just had this I mean, 396 00:24:34,450 --> 00:24:36,760 Dor Garbash: I think one of the really interesting and exciting things 397 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:41,440 Dor Garbash: about zero knowledge proof. Is it just. It's so cutting 398 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:47,500 Dor Garbash: edge right now that literally those early use cases and 399 00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:49,330 Dor Garbash: everything you talk about, like show me, show me an 400 00:24:49,330 --> 00:24:52,750 Dor Garbash: example of how this is being used. This is now 401 00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:55,750 Dor Garbash: being built, right? All these exciting use cases that are 402 00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:59,199 Dor Garbash: pushing the edge of what's possible, the literally getting getting 403 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:05,770 Dor Garbash: built right now. So we're in three weeks in Mena, 404 00:25:05,770 --> 00:25:10,540 Dor Garbash: We're going to launch an innovation program called Zika Ignite, 405 00:25:11,290 --> 00:25:14,859 Dor Garbash: where people are actually going to have the ability to 406 00:25:14,859 --> 00:25:17,980 Dor Garbash: receive support and funding to actually develop these types of 407 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:19,480 Dor Garbash: use cases. 408 00:25:20,910 --> 00:25:23,880 Joel Comm: Yes. So actually, for those who are watching I've got 409 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,470 Joel Comm: MENA protocol dot com up on the visuals right now 410 00:25:27,490 --> 00:25:30,840 Joel Comm: says MENA is building the privacy and security layer for 411 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,490 Joel Comm: Web three using zero knowledge technology. You guys can go 412 00:25:35,490 --> 00:25:37,800 Joel Comm: down the rabbit hole and learn about Z K apps 413 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,220 Joel Comm: there and you put out this report, The State of 414 00:25:41,220 --> 00:25:44,130 Joel Comm: Zero Knowledge report 2022. We're gonna have a link to 415 00:25:44,130 --> 00:25:46,680 Joel Comm: that for you in the show notes a bad code 416 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,250 Joel Comm: that I and forward slash 668 and you can read 417 00:25:50,250 --> 00:25:52,560 Joel Comm: about that travel ask questions your sir. 418 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,170 Travis Wright: Well my question is around this I just looked on 419 00:25:55,170 --> 00:25:58,710 Travis Wright: coingecko I did not see Mena on there. I looked 420 00:25:58,710 --> 00:26:04,649 Travis Wright: in top crypto categories and looked for zero knowledge proof cryptos. 421 00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:08,129 Travis Wright: I didn't see any. So what are you know, when 422 00:26:08,130 --> 00:26:10,290 Travis Wright: people are now going out and doing their own research 423 00:26:10,290 --> 00:26:13,800 Travis Wright: down the rabbit hole, where do you suggest they go? 424 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,210 Dor Garbash: I think just Google mina mina protocol. 425 00:26:18,810 --> 00:26:21,119 Travis Wright: Is that going to be a crypto? Is that a project? 426 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,120 Travis Wright: Is that a coin people can invest in? MENA is 427 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,160 Travis Wright: it doesn't look like it's available yet, correct? 428 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,760 Dor Garbash: No notes available. This project had been you know, we 429 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:36,189 Dor Garbash: had our main in launch a few years ago where. 430 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,199 Travis Wright: I mean, if you go there we go. It is 431 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,900 Travis Wright: it's the number one overall. Wasn't popping up on Coingecko 432 00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:43,470 Travis Wright: when I tried earlier. And that's a token right now. Okay, 433 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:43,780 Travis Wright: I see. 434 00:26:44,750 --> 00:26:49,290 Dor Garbash: It's it's an extremely legitimate project. It's actually had many, 435 00:26:49,290 --> 00:26:52,440 Dor Garbash: many years of development, but we're pretty much the pioneers 436 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,830 Dor Garbash: in in this space. You know, we're I think we're 437 00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:57,449 Dor Garbash: we're like really the only ones that have like an 438 00:26:57,450 --> 00:27:05,310 Dor Garbash: actual functional zero knowledge layer one running and. Yeah. I think, 439 00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:09,659 Dor Garbash: you know, if you don't mind me, like pitching a bit, 440 00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:11,400 Dor Garbash: you know, I think I think the other really interesting 441 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:17,540 Dor Garbash: thing about now is our like, language for developing Zika, 442 00:27:18,090 --> 00:27:23,340 Dor Garbash: a kind of question, I guess, which is like JavaScript. 443 00:27:23,609 --> 00:27:26,580 Dor Garbash: So if like the most popular programming language in the 444 00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:30,600 Dor Garbash: world and when you look at other actors in the space, 445 00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:34,470 Dor Garbash: they're pretty much forcing developers to learn a whole new 446 00:27:34,859 --> 00:27:39,909 Dor Garbash: programming language. Usually like one that is like obscure and 447 00:27:39,910 --> 00:27:41,980 Dor Garbash: was kind of invented. And, you know, maybe there's like 448 00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:46,540 Dor Garbash: a handful of people that are actually like, using it and. 449 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,179 Dor Garbash: While our technology is just way more accessible for an 450 00:27:51,180 --> 00:27:54,420 Dor Garbash: everyday developer to come in and get started and build 451 00:27:54,420 --> 00:27:55,230 Dor Garbash: their own day care. 452 00:27:55,780 --> 00:27:57,869 Travis Wright: Dude, I'm looking at this right now. I'm looking at 453 00:27:57,869 --> 00:28:00,120 Travis Wright: this and you guys are like 50 something cents right now, 454 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,730 Travis Wright: but in the all time high you guys are over $6. 455 00:28:03,060 --> 00:28:05,040 Travis Wright: So just to get to your previous all time high, 456 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,950 Travis Wright: that's a 12 x. Not financial advice, but if you're 457 00:28:07,950 --> 00:28:10,560 Travis Wright: saying that you guys are the leaders in this and 458 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,649 Travis Wright: you guys are creating the technology that that other peoples 459 00:28:13,650 --> 00:28:16,350 Travis Wright: are sort of building theirs on, might not not financial 460 00:28:16,350 --> 00:28:18,060 Travis Wright: advice but might not be a bad idea to look 461 00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:19,260 Travis Wright: into this a little further. 462 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:24,750 Dor Garbash: I don't think I can come at that price. No, no, 463 00:28:24,750 --> 00:28:29,870 Dor Garbash: it's really my focus. You know? The focus of us and, 464 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,250 Dor Garbash: you know, is actually like, yeah, just bringing this technology 465 00:28:33,250 --> 00:28:36,670 Dor Garbash: to life and making sure there's real world use cases. 466 00:28:36,700 --> 00:28:41,470 Dor Garbash: You know, making sure the ecosystem thrives and and, you know, 467 00:28:41,470 --> 00:28:43,120 Dor Garbash: and making sure that at the end of the day, 468 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,190 Dor Garbash: we're making the world a better place, you know, and 469 00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:50,050 Dor Garbash: we're giving the technologies that. You know, I really wish 470 00:28:50,050 --> 00:28:54,550 Dor Garbash: for us, as the reluctant community like, to kind of 471 00:28:54,550 --> 00:28:58,750 Dor Garbash: move from a defensive perspective about privacy to a more 472 00:28:58,750 --> 00:29:01,240 Dor Garbash: a bit more like offensive perspective. So. So what do 473 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,000 Dor Garbash: I mean? Instead of like trying to fight the fight 474 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,990 Dor Garbash: of like, oh, let's like add if that any future 475 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:12,640 Dor Garbash: any bit of privacy while whatever big, big organizations of 476 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,020 Dor Garbash: the world are eating into privacy faster. You know, we 477 00:29:17,020 --> 00:29:19,780 Dor Garbash: can just create a world where privacy is a first 478 00:29:19,780 --> 00:29:23,620 Dor Garbash: class citizen that actually enables people to do way more 479 00:29:23,620 --> 00:29:26,200 Dor Garbash: things they just couldn't do before. Okay. I think I 480 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,290 Dor Garbash: think from like when you start to think about, you know, 481 00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:32,650 Dor Garbash: what kind of headache and cost is getting medical records, 482 00:29:32,770 --> 00:29:37,150 Dor Garbash: for example, from from one one provider to another, sharing 483 00:29:37,690 --> 00:29:43,600 Dor Garbash: scientific knowledge from like even even if you have let's say, 484 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,420 Dor Garbash: if you have an embarrassing personal problem. Okay. Like. 485 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,479 Joel Comm: I don't want to talk about that. I don't want 486 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:50,110 Joel Comm: to talk about that. 487 00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:54,610 Dor Garbash: Yeah, but like, even if you're if even if, you know, 488 00:29:54,610 --> 00:29:57,370 Dor Garbash: it's like it's funny, but it's also real, you know, 489 00:29:57,370 --> 00:30:02,170 Dor Garbash: like people that are facing a problem like addiction. Okay, 490 00:30:02,180 --> 00:30:05,050 Dor Garbash: So right now, they can take just go out in 491 00:30:05,050 --> 00:30:07,120 Dor Garbash: the world and, like, apply to all sorts of places 492 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,820 Dor Garbash: and find the best service, like a normal market place, 493 00:30:09,820 --> 00:30:13,240 Dor Garbash: you know, because they're afraid for their identity, they're fearful 494 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,040 Dor Garbash: for privacy in there. Their access to services is very limited. 495 00:30:17,050 --> 00:30:19,900 Dor Garbash: But what if your privacy is guaranteed? You know what? 496 00:30:19,900 --> 00:30:23,800 Dor Garbash: If you can talk, share, get your problem treated, You know, 497 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,400 Dor Garbash: getting people to to help, to support you without that 498 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:33,070 Dor Garbash: fear or like, what if people could be whistleblowers or reports? Yeah. 499 00:30:33,130 --> 00:30:35,410 Dor Garbash: Let's say like, you know, more than, you know, millions 500 00:30:35,410 --> 00:30:40,040 Dor Garbash: of people die from, you know, construction workers die every 501 00:30:40,060 --> 00:30:45,520 Dor Garbash: day because inadequate safety procedures in their worksites. Right. What 502 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,680 Dor Garbash: if they had a safe way to report that? Maybe 503 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,020 Dor Garbash: if they can. 504 00:30:48,370 --> 00:30:50,980 Travis Wright: That's a really interesting use case. I thought you said, 505 00:30:50,980 --> 00:30:55,760 Travis Wright: what if you could be anonymous so you could talk shit, right? Anonymously. 506 00:30:55,780 --> 00:30:56,860 Travis Wright: It was when I thought he was going to say, 507 00:30:56,860 --> 00:31:00,280 Travis Wright: but he said talk is you know, that's really. So 508 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,219 Travis Wright: you're talking about these whistleblowers. I like that idea. Is 509 00:31:03,220 --> 00:31:07,630 Travis Wright: there a MENA protocol lab of some sort where you 510 00:31:07,630 --> 00:31:11,770 Travis Wright: guys are saying, submit, you know, your idea for a proposal? 511 00:31:11,770 --> 00:31:13,750 Travis Wright: We have a we have some funds over here in 512 00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:16,750 Travis Wright: Mena to utilize. Is that something you guys as ecosystem has? 513 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,640 Dor Garbash: That's right. Actually in this they said it three weeks. What? 514 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,330 Dor Garbash: I think Zika ignites one. Okay. Which will be distributing 515 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:33,820 Dor Garbash: three quarters of $1,000,000 in US decision tokens just to 516 00:31:33,820 --> 00:31:38,020 Dor Garbash: be this early seed crazy exploration lab for people to 517 00:31:38,020 --> 00:31:40,300 Dor Garbash: develop those early use cases. 518 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:42,920 Joel Comm: Nice. So, you know. 519 00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:45,140 Dor Garbash: If you're a developer and you just feel like you 520 00:31:45,140 --> 00:31:46,790 Dor Garbash: want to be on the cutting edge and you want 521 00:31:46,790 --> 00:31:50,150 Dor Garbash: to not just like optimize existing things, but, you know, 522 00:31:50,150 --> 00:31:55,070 Dor Garbash: maybe create whole new product categories, push the edges. We 523 00:31:55,070 --> 00:31:58,460 Dor Garbash: want to empower you and give you that opportunity to 524 00:31:58,460 --> 00:31:58,850 Dor Garbash: do that. 525 00:31:59,030 --> 00:32:02,810 Joel Comm: It's funny because the term zero knowledge, the website says 526 00:32:02,810 --> 00:32:06,110 Joel Comm: build with zero knowledge. Well, that's me. I have no knowledge. 527 00:32:06,180 --> 00:32:08,660 Joel Comm: I I'm being invited to build. 528 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:09,460 Travis Wright: Yeah. 529 00:32:10,210 --> 00:32:13,640 Dor Garbash: Yeah. Obviously that yeah I visit that zero zero knowledge 530 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,990 Dor Garbash: whatever weird mathematician an academic think did not consult the 531 00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:19,030 Dor Garbash: branding agency. 532 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,710 Joel Comm: Right. Hey, this don't have a GED or a high 533 00:32:21,710 --> 00:32:23,590 Joel Comm: school diploma build with zero knowledge. 534 00:32:23,860 --> 00:32:29,600 Dor Garbash: I right. I know my job well. 535 00:32:30,050 --> 00:32:32,950 Joel Comm: Now I have some knowledge. And. 536 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,240 Travis Wright: And we're having one knowledge now. Now. 537 00:32:36,170 --> 00:32:37,270 Joel Comm: Right now I have one. 538 00:32:37,270 --> 00:32:38,270 Travis Wright: Half of the knowledge. 539 00:32:38,660 --> 00:32:41,210 Joel Comm: To add to my zero knowledge board. Thanks for coming 540 00:32:41,210 --> 00:32:44,810 Joel Comm: on and share with us today. You keep keep developing 541 00:32:44,810 --> 00:32:48,740 Joel Comm: over there at it Mina mina protocol dot com is 542 00:32:48,740 --> 00:32:51,260 Joel Comm: the Web site and you guys can find links to 543 00:32:51,260 --> 00:32:54,710 Joel Comm: it and to the the report that they released in 544 00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:57,410 Joel Comm: the show notes that bad code that I and forward 545 00:32:57,410 --> 00:33:01,760 Joel Comm: slash 668. We're going to take our one knowledge now 546 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,180 Joel Comm: and go on with the show so thanks man appreciate it. 547 00:33:05,570 --> 00:33:07,580 Travis Wright: I just want to say d'oh! You didn't seem mean 548 00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:10,760 Travis Wright: to me at all. You seem pretty nicer. Yeah, really nice. 549 00:33:13,790 --> 00:33:16,510 Dor Garbash: Thank you. I think that is a great compliment. So 550 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,790 Dor Garbash: thank you so much. You do have enjoyed the rest 551 00:33:19,790 --> 00:33:21,080 Dor Garbash: of your day. Take care. 552 00:33:22,850 --> 00:33:25,790 Joel Comm: And now you know a little bit more about zero 553 00:33:25,790 --> 00:33:29,300 Joel Comm: knowledge proof. And it really is a very simple concept, 554 00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:34,310 Joel Comm: and I understand completely why this is important for privacy. 555 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,110 Travis Wright: Mm hmm. I don't fully understand the mechanisms of it. Right. 556 00:33:39,380 --> 00:33:42,830 Travis Wright: So I don't know where the vulnerabilities are within it, 557 00:33:42,860 --> 00:33:47,210 Travis Wright: because it's math. It's math. Yeah. But you know what 558 00:33:47,390 --> 00:33:49,430 Travis Wright: we're in this space is like, you never know. Trust 559 00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:52,250 Travis Wright: but verify. And so we can interview this guy, and 560 00:33:52,250 --> 00:33:55,370 Travis Wright: he can be our verification. But now we trust. I mean, 561 00:33:55,370 --> 00:33:57,890 Travis Wright: I don't know. It's still it's like I need to 562 00:33:57,890 --> 00:34:00,350 Travis Wright: know more information about it, because right now I feel 563 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,740 Travis Wright: a little on a little little I don't feel as 564 00:34:03,740 --> 00:34:06,050 Travis Wright: much trust as I should have. But it seems like 565 00:34:06,050 --> 00:34:08,570 Travis Wright: if it is legit and it can do the things 566 00:34:08,570 --> 00:34:12,259 Travis Wright: it says without having those vulnerabilities, then it might be 567 00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:16,399 Travis Wright: a good solution for online voting. Potentially. I like that concept. 568 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,009 Travis Wright: I like I don't like mail in voting. People who 569 00:34:19,010 --> 00:34:22,430 Travis Wright: listen to this show, they know that, right? It's you've 570 00:34:22,430 --> 00:34:26,020 Travis Wright: seen 200 mule, 2000 mules. You know, things can be fraudulent. 571 00:34:26,420 --> 00:34:27,350 Joel Comm: You're just being a. 572 00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:30,650 Travis Wright: Upset about it. You're upset about it is what it is. 573 00:34:31,460 --> 00:34:33,259 Joel Comm: If somebody is upset about it and we're going to 574 00:34:33,260 --> 00:34:35,270 Joel Comm: read their review in just a moment, but I want 575 00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:38,300 Joel Comm: you guys to know that you can get a free NFT. 576 00:34:38,750 --> 00:34:41,120 Joel Comm: All you need to be is in the bad crypto 577 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,110 Joel Comm: nifty club. You go to bad crypto dot, Uncut dot 578 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,270 Joel Comm: FM is the link to it, and then you want 579 00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:50,060 Joel Comm: to make sure that you've got one of these spinning 580 00:34:50,060 --> 00:34:55,340 Joel Comm: nfts in your wallet. $3.24 at today's Etherium price. Why 581 00:34:55,340 --> 00:34:57,350 Joel Comm: do they cost anything at all? Just so we don't 582 00:34:57,350 --> 00:35:00,020 Joel Comm: have bots scooping them up? You put something out there 583 00:35:00,020 --> 00:35:02,060 Joel Comm: for free and all these bots end up with them 584 00:35:02,060 --> 00:35:04,280 Joel Comm: and then they get all the nfts and you know, 585 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,620 Joel Comm: we figure bots aren't going to drop three bucks. This 586 00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:09,950 Joel Comm: is for people who enjoy the show. So go to 587 00:35:09,950 --> 00:35:13,730 Joel Comm: bad Crypto Dot Uncut FM, make sure you have this. 588 00:35:14,300 --> 00:35:17,569 Joel Comm: I think we'll do the cut off will be Saturday 589 00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:20,390 Joel Comm: the 28th. If you don't have one by then you're 590 00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:21,890 Joel Comm: not going to get the free drop. But if you've 591 00:35:21,890 --> 00:35:24,170 Joel Comm: got one in your wallet, you will get the free drop, 592 00:35:24,170 --> 00:35:27,020 Joel Comm: which I have not yet seen because Travis has not 593 00:35:27,020 --> 00:35:29,090 Joel Comm: yet made it. He doesn't even know what it looks 594 00:35:29,090 --> 00:35:29,650 Joel Comm: like yet. 595 00:35:29,660 --> 00:35:31,640 Travis Wright: I don't I think it's going to be something that's 596 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,590 Travis Wright: a little silly, though. It should be this one. I'll 597 00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:35,570 Travis Wright: probably try to be a little more funny because if 598 00:35:35,570 --> 00:35:38,630 Travis Wright: somebody has zero knowledge, the kind of probably an idiot, 599 00:35:39,140 --> 00:35:41,030 Travis Wright: this is a little different. If you have zero knowledge, 600 00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:45,560 Travis Wright: prove it's a different sort of metaphor, but we'll just 601 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,210 Travis Wright: see how it goes. I'm literally look, you go look 602 00:35:47,210 --> 00:35:50,990 Travis Wright: in zero knowledge proof images on a search engine. There's 603 00:35:50,989 --> 00:35:53,730 Travis Wright: nothing they all look blockchain. There's nothing really that make 604 00:35:53,810 --> 00:35:58,160 Travis Wright: that goes oh, zero knowledge proof. So I don't know 605 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,469 Travis Wright: that there is a definitive image of the Internet. 606 00:36:00,739 --> 00:36:03,919 Joel Comm: The Internet has no knowledge of zero knowledge. It's like 607 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,259 Joel Comm: a double negative. So they got to figure that out. 608 00:36:06,739 --> 00:36:08,750 Travis Wright: Dude, I have had a lot of comments and people 609 00:36:08,750 --> 00:36:12,980 Travis Wright: messaging me about those Etherium Nfts that we put out. Yeah, 610 00:36:12,980 --> 00:36:13,759 Travis Wright: those ones I was in. 611 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:14,150 Joel Comm: Those are. 612 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:14,630 Travis Wright: Those are. 613 00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:17,239 Joel Comm: Really solid if you did get them, but you don't 614 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,780 Joel Comm: see them, check out open, see your hidden folder because 615 00:36:20,780 --> 00:36:25,310 Joel Comm: Polygon Nfts tend to automatically be hidden if they're not 616 00:36:25,310 --> 00:36:28,339 Joel Comm: coming from a verified collection. So make sure you go 617 00:36:28,340 --> 00:36:30,859 Joel Comm: and look because they could be hiding in there. Also, 618 00:36:30,860 --> 00:36:32,810 Joel Comm: a lot of great comments we got from people on 619 00:36:32,810 --> 00:36:35,690 Joel Comm: the Teka Tiwari. We got some great tweets and feedback, 620 00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:41,700 Joel Comm: but this guy, Trent Rob Rabb. Trent Crabbe. He's a Canadian, 621 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:45,180 Joel Comm: a he's a hoser. And he he went out of 622 00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:47,700 Joel Comm: his way to write this year review because he felt 623 00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:51,540 Joel Comm: real passionate about the show. He said it was probably 624 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,989 Joel Comm: the worst podcast I've listened to a and I'm going 625 00:36:54,989 --> 00:36:58,980 Joel Comm: to read this in Canadian because why not? I don't. 626 00:36:58,980 --> 00:37:02,069 Travis Wright: Even I don't even see that one on my on the. 627 00:37:02,070 --> 00:37:05,730 Joel Comm: Air. I really enjoy investing in crypto podcast. When I 628 00:37:05,730 --> 00:37:08,370 Joel Comm: stumbled across this one, I was excited as I saw, 629 00:37:08,370 --> 00:37:12,030 Joel Comm: the guest was Deka DKA and he always provides good 630 00:37:12,030 --> 00:37:15,630 Joel Comm: insights into the market. I couldn't be more disappointed in 631 00:37:15,780 --> 00:37:19,830 Joel Comm: these hosts. These hosers are clowns the way they conducted 632 00:37:19,830 --> 00:37:23,160 Joel Comm: the podcast. The guy in the background constantly adding his 633 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,130 Joel Comm: $0.02 with the bad jokes and the main guy sounds 634 00:37:26,130 --> 00:37:29,430 Joel Comm: very inexperienced as well. I couldn't even listen to the 635 00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:33,090 Joel Comm: whole podcast because they had my tuk pulled over my ears. 636 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,120 Joel Comm: Which is a shame because I wanted to hear all 637 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,310 Joel Comm: that I had to say. I felt sorry Teka. He 638 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,930 Joel Comm: had to sit there answering these. Your hosers. Don't listen. 639 00:37:43,110 --> 00:37:45,870 Joel Comm: If these other guys are looking to improve, they should 640 00:37:45,870 --> 00:37:50,670 Joel Comm: listen to the We Study Billionaires podcast to understand how 641 00:37:50,670 --> 00:37:54,109 Joel Comm: to interview the professionals at the top of their class. Dare. 642 00:37:54,270 --> 00:37:56,279 Joel Comm: And now I got to go off to Tim Hortons 643 00:37:56,489 --> 00:37:58,140 Joel Comm: and get me some food. 644 00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:00,419 Travis Wright: Get a donut and a coffee for you. 645 00:38:01,830 --> 00:38:03,989 Joel Comm: Yeah, we're not we're never going to make beer, Trev. 646 00:38:03,989 --> 00:38:06,870 Joel Comm: We need we're never going to make it. And GM, 647 00:38:06,870 --> 00:38:07,140 Joel Comm: I mean. 648 00:38:07,830 --> 00:38:10,590 Travis Wright: I think that's a person that has zero knowledge right there. 649 00:38:10,739 --> 00:38:13,230 Joel Comm: Or he's got to prove he's got the proof, though. 650 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,190 Joel Comm: So what I want to know is I know. 651 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,850 Travis Wright: He didn't realize that we do tend to put in 652 00:38:17,850 --> 00:38:21,270 Travis Wright: our $0.02 worth that makes it entertaining, at least to us. 653 00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:23,549 Travis Wright: And it wasn't irritating to us. We wouldn't even do 654 00:38:23,550 --> 00:38:24,469 Travis Wright: it because it wouldn't be fun. 655 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,900 Joel Comm: And then the thousands of you that do enjoy wouldn't 656 00:38:26,910 --> 00:38:29,580 Joel Comm: enjoy you be like, these guys are generic. They it 657 00:38:29,580 --> 00:38:32,190 Joel Comm: is a guy only. So he said, the guy in 658 00:38:32,190 --> 00:38:34,379 Joel Comm: the background. I don't know which one of us that 659 00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:38,340 Joel Comm: was constantly adding his $0.02 with bad jokes. And the 660 00:38:38,340 --> 00:38:41,460 Joel Comm: main guy sounds very inexperienced. I want to know who's 661 00:38:41,460 --> 00:38:43,170 Joel Comm: the background guy and who's the main guy? 662 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:44,940 Travis Wright: Well, you're probably the main guy since you're the one 663 00:38:44,940 --> 00:38:47,910 Travis Wright: who reads the teaser off that comes off like you're 664 00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:48,540 Travis Wright: the main guy. 665 00:38:48,540 --> 00:38:52,230 Joel Comm: Then I sounded very inexperienced. I've only been doing broadcasting 666 00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:53,430 Joel Comm: for a little while. 667 00:38:53,860 --> 00:38:56,009 Travis Wright: BRADY Your voice was cracking. 668 00:38:56,010 --> 00:38:59,129 Joel Comm: For two years now. But you're right. I've got no 669 00:38:59,130 --> 00:39:01,920 Joel Comm: experience or I don't understand people going out of the 670 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,070 Joel Comm: way to write one star review. 671 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,509 Travis Wright: It needs to go hang out with Justin Trudeau and 672 00:39:06,510 --> 00:39:07,890 Travis Wright: get his suck on all. 673 00:39:07,890 --> 00:39:14,069 Joel Comm: Yeah, but if you're a Canadian and you know you 674 00:39:14,070 --> 00:39:16,950 Joel Comm: like the show, we'd like a five star review from 675 00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:19,469 Joel Comm: you because we're a fan of the Canadian people. We're 676 00:39:19,469 --> 00:39:23,210 Joel Comm: just not a fan of Trudeau there. You know, a 677 00:39:23,330 --> 00:39:26,400 Joel Comm: in in people who are mean mean people sucky. 678 00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:30,000 Travis Wright: Well, I got $0.02 here and I would say, you know, 679 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,750 Travis Wright: try as you might, we still have a 4.5 plus 680 00:39:34,469 --> 00:39:36,450 Travis Wright: star review rating of over. 681 00:39:36,780 --> 00:39:41,069 Joel Comm: 4.7, which by the way is 4.5 plus still. But 682 00:39:41,070 --> 00:39:42,270 Joel Comm: we would have been on. 683 00:39:42,290 --> 00:39:44,160 Travis Wright: Where are you looking at? Because I'm looking at hours 684 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,400 Travis Wright: on on Apple. 685 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,520 Joel Comm: I don't know where you're looking. I'm just telling you 686 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,440 Joel Comm: what I'm seeing. And I'm saying when. 687 00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:51,990 Travis Wright: I saw it's like a 5.2 and it's like more 688 00:39:51,989 --> 00:39:52,860 Travis Wright: than five, we. 689 00:39:52,860 --> 00:39:55,920 Joel Comm: Would love to hear from some others of you with 690 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,860 Joel Comm: some of the fun. If five star reviews some funny stuff. 691 00:39:58,860 --> 00:40:00,660 Joel Comm: So go jump over there. Take a minute of your 692 00:40:00,660 --> 00:40:03,210 Joel Comm: time if you've made it this far and and do 693 00:40:03,210 --> 00:40:07,140 Joel Comm: that for for the the funny guy in the main guy. 694 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,480 Travis Wright: Yeah it's called the bad crypto podcast like he's over 695 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,270 Travis Wright: there making bad jokes like, yeah, you don't get it. 696 00:40:15,570 --> 00:40:17,830 Travis Wright: Go figure. Sorry. Sorry you had to deal with that, 697 00:40:17,850 --> 00:40:21,180 Travis Wright: you know, ticker. And some point in that podcast, he 698 00:40:21,180 --> 00:40:22,620 Travis Wright: was he was looking at me like I was a 699 00:40:22,620 --> 00:40:24,480 Travis Wright: little crazy. He's like, Oh, no, I'm not going to 700 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,450 Travis Wright: get nearly that bad. What are you just live your life, bro? 701 00:40:27,660 --> 00:40:29,910 Travis Wright: And I was like, Okay, well, I mean, I do 702 00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:32,460 Travis Wright: live my life, but I know that shitty people getting 703 00:40:32,460 --> 00:40:35,040 Travis Wright: in charge of things and economies do tend to crash 704 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,790 Travis Wright: over time and hopefully everybody is safe and secure when 705 00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:39,359 Travis Wright: that happens. 706 00:40:39,450 --> 00:40:42,480 Joel Comm: There you go. More conspiracy theories, by the way. Really 707 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:47,160 Joel Comm: interesting to see people capitulating on the on the vaccines. Now, 708 00:40:47,370 --> 00:40:51,630 Joel Comm: Scott Adams, who's a former guest on this show, was 709 00:40:51,630 --> 00:40:53,339 Joel Comm: one of the people that came out and said, I 710 00:40:53,340 --> 00:40:57,930 Joel Comm: trust the science on on the vaccines and you should 711 00:40:57,930 --> 00:41:00,540 Joel Comm: go get them. And he jumped, you know, right in 712 00:41:00,540 --> 00:41:04,799 Joel Comm: bed with that. And it was just yesterday that he 713 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,669 Joel Comm: went live on Twitter and he said, you know what, 714 00:41:08,670 --> 00:41:13,739 Joel Comm: I was wrong. The quote, Anti-vax people were right about 715 00:41:13,739 --> 00:41:16,410 Joel Comm: this because there is no doubt there is more than 716 00:41:16,410 --> 00:41:20,880 Joel Comm: enough data now that demonstrates that these vaccines and the 717 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:27,419 Joel Comm: boosters actually are more harmful than helpful, according to the 718 00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:30,510 Joel Comm: data that we're now looking at, not according to opinion, 719 00:41:30,510 --> 00:41:32,700 Joel Comm: according to the actual data. 720 00:41:33,630 --> 00:41:37,080 Travis Wright: And Kathy Griffin came out and she's looking pale and 721 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,360 Travis Wright: frail as ever, celebrating her first. Fourth booster that she 722 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,879 Travis Wright: just got. So congratulations to her. I hope she keeps 723 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:45,360 Travis Wright: getting them. 724 00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:49,350 Joel Comm: You know, I don't wish well on I don't wish 725 00:41:49,739 --> 00:41:52,680 Joel Comm: evil on anybody. I'm just saying. 726 00:41:52,780 --> 00:41:54,359 Travis Wright: Doesn't get as many as you like. 727 00:41:54,780 --> 00:42:01,469 Joel Comm: These conspiracy theories. Turns out that not not a theory realist. 728 00:42:01,469 --> 00:42:03,360 Joel Comm: And so you. 729 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,100 Travis Wright: Can have zero knowledge of any of that. 730 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,060 Joel Comm: We don't know. We're just critical thinkers and we look 731 00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:12,030 Joel Comm: at stuff around us and go, What are the motives 732 00:42:12,030 --> 00:42:15,630 Joel Comm: of those people who are telling us, Fill in the blank, 733 00:42:15,630 --> 00:42:16,560 Joel Comm: whatever it is? 734 00:42:16,860 --> 00:42:19,739 Travis Wright: And we always have those conversations. It's like, this kind 735 00:42:19,739 --> 00:42:23,040 Travis Wright: of seems funky. What's up with this? And we're like, Yeah, oh, look, oh, 736 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,290 Travis Wright: here's another resort. Oh, look at that. And then it 737 00:42:25,290 --> 00:42:27,630 Travis Wright: tends to come out. If you surround yourself with people 738 00:42:27,630 --> 00:42:30,660 Travis Wright: who are free thinkers, what tends to happen is you 739 00:42:30,660 --> 00:42:33,450 Travis Wright: end up getting more of the information that is suppressed 740 00:42:33,450 --> 00:42:35,850 Travis Wright: to most people, and then you pay attention to that 741 00:42:35,850 --> 00:42:37,470 Travis Wright: and you read it and you go, Wow, these are 742 00:42:37,710 --> 00:42:40,290 Travis Wright: this is not publicly available for most people if you're 743 00:42:40,290 --> 00:42:43,080 Travis Wright: not looking for it. And then you go, Wow, they're 744 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,750 Travis Wright: not these aren't in our best interests. And so the 745 00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:48,839 Travis Wright: same people, it sounds like a theory, but the same 746 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,020 Travis Wright: people who are promoting, Oh my God, we are so overpopulated. 747 00:42:52,020 --> 00:42:54,660 Travis Wright: We're going to have too many people. We need to 748 00:42:54,810 --> 00:42:57,630 Travis Wright: do X, Y, and Z to minimize the amount of people, 749 00:42:57,630 --> 00:43:00,300 Travis Wright: and then they come out later and send sick people 750 00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:03,779 Travis Wright: in to the nursing homes of grandma and grandpa. They 751 00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:06,600 Travis Wright: get worse and then they pass on a vaccine. Everybody 752 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,940 Travis Wright: that just didn't seem logical to me. Turns out we 753 00:43:08,940 --> 00:43:09,300 Travis Wright: were right. 754 00:43:09,570 --> 00:43:10,860 Dor Garbash: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. 755 00:43:11,219 --> 00:43:14,500 Joel Comm: Just question everything, gang. Think for yourself. Don't let the 756 00:43:14,550 --> 00:43:17,490 Joel Comm: media and the oligarchs tell you what to think. Just 757 00:43:17,489 --> 00:43:21,180 Joel Comm: because it's coming through mass media does not mean it 758 00:43:21,180 --> 00:43:23,100 Joel Comm: is in your best interests. And we're just going to 759 00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:25,770 Joel Comm: question everything. And I think, you know, we've kind of 760 00:43:25,770 --> 00:43:29,430 Joel Comm: formed a base around the people who enjoy listening to 761 00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:35,040 Joel Comm: our show and mostly people that are awake, not woke awake, 762 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,880 Joel Comm: and at least are willing to ask the questions. And 763 00:43:38,969 --> 00:43:41,580 Joel Comm: we appreciate you guys listening And those of you who 764 00:43:41,580 --> 00:43:44,610 Joel Comm: may not fall into that bucket, that's fine. We're glad 765 00:43:44,610 --> 00:43:47,340 Joel Comm: that you're here, too. We welcome all here. We're not 766 00:43:47,340 --> 00:43:50,250 Joel Comm: here to ostracize anybody. We're just that it's a show 767 00:43:50,250 --> 00:43:51,899 Joel Comm: that we host. And so we're going to talk about 768 00:43:51,900 --> 00:43:54,600 Joel Comm: things that are interesting to us. It is the Bad 769 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:59,060 Joel Comm: Crypto podcast, and we are going to encourage you to stay. 770 00:44:16,420 --> 00:44:17,110 Dor Garbash: Who's bad? 771 00:44:18,940 --> 00:44:22,570 Joel Comm: The Bad Crypto podcast is a production of Bad Crypto LLC. 772 00:44:22,750 --> 00:44:25,480 Joel Comm: The content of the show, the videos and the website 773 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,560 Joel Comm: is provided for educational, informational and entertainment purposes only. It's 774 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,489 Joel Comm: not intended to be and does not constitute financial investment 775 00:44:33,489 --> 00:44:36,550 Joel Comm: or trading advice of any kind. You shouldn't make any 776 00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:40,210 Joel Comm: decisions as to finances, investing, trading or anything else based 777 00:44:40,210 --> 00:44:44,740 Joel Comm: on this information without undertaking independent due diligence in consultation 778 00:44:44,739 --> 00:44:48,160 Joel Comm: with a professional financial advisor. Please understand that the trading 779 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:53,200 Joel Comm: of Bitcoins and alternative cryptocurrencies have potential risks involved. Anyone 780 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,600 Joel Comm: wishing to invest in any of the currencies or tokens 781 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,960 Joel Comm: mentioned on this podcast should first seek their own independent 782 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,820 Joel Comm: professional financial advisor.