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Speaker 1: Nine podcasts.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, Aaron Patterson finishes her time on the

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Speaker 2: witness stand after eight days. In the final hours of

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Speaker 2: her evidence, more questions are asked about gastric bypass surgery.

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Speaker 2: With the jury told lawyers have collected more information. The

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Speaker 2: accused killer maintains she fed her children leftovers from the

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Speaker 2: fatal lunch, and she answers three final questions from the prosecution.

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Speaker 3: Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives

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Speaker 3: an Australian family's meal is now the center of a

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Speaker 3: homicide investigation. The bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines. Aaron

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Speaker 3: Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch she'd

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Speaker 3: serve them at her home.

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Speaker 1: I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this

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Speaker 1: level of media and public interest.

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Speaker 2: Four of the guests of that lunch were much loved

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Speaker 2: members of this church.

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Speaker 4: Only one will ever return.

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Speaker 1: People are feeling very heavy with having lost wonderful people.

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Speaker 2: Today, Aaron Patterson remained here inside her home.

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Speaker 4: She's continued to plead her innocence in a court room

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Speaker 4: in Country Victoria.

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Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using death cap

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Speaker 2: mushrooms to kill. She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three

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Speaker 2: of her former in laws and attempting to kill a fourth,

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Speaker 2: the town's church pastor. It's up to the jurors to

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Speaker 2: decide what happened when Patterson's loved ones sat down to eat.

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Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson has been on the witness stand across eight

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Speaker 2: days now. There's been days of cross examination and also

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Speaker 2: questions with her defense barrister, initially an examination in chief

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Speaker 2: and then now we've seen all of his final questions

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Speaker 2: in the re examination as well.

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Speaker 3: It was quite a moment in the courtroom when the

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Speaker 3: judge turned to the jury and said that now completes

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Speaker 3: the evidence. As you said, eight days, the accused woman

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Speaker 3: has been in the witness box, and you could hear

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Speaker 3: a sigh from the packed court room and also from

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Speaker 3: a number of jury members when the judge revealed that

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Speaker 3: was what was happening and what was happening next. At

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Speaker 3: that time, Aaron Patterson was seated, as you said, in

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Speaker 3: the witness box. She had been a little bit teary

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Speaker 3: towards the end of her evidence, but largely had remained

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Speaker 3: pretty stoic answering pretty much every question and even gave

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Speaker 3: explanations as well as denials. There was a bit of

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Speaker 3: a mixture of both, Penny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we will in this episode take you through

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Speaker 2: a number of different topics that the prosecution took Aaron

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Speaker 2: Patterson through in the last part of her cross examination,

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Speaker 2: as well as the re examination from the defense, and

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Speaker 2: will bring you what both sides have asked Aaron Patterson

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Speaker 2: in these final hours around gastric bypass surgery. But let's

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Speaker 2: start with the mushrooms from the Asian grosser. Now, Aaron

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Speaker 2: Patterson says that she bought dried mushrooms from an Asian

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Speaker 2: or Chinese grosser in the southeastern suburbs of Melbourne, and

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Speaker 2: that she'd added this to the beef Wellington, but became

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Speaker 2: concerned at one point that there may have been foraged

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Speaker 2: mushrooms in that dried mushroom mixture. She's been asked a

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Speaker 2: lot of questions about these particular mushrooms.

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Speaker 3: He's also been asked a lot of questions about what

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Speaker 3: she recalls telling the other witnesses in the trial about

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Speaker 3: those mushrooms and the order of events, and she recalled

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Speaker 3: that the first person that she told about the fact

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Speaker 3: that could be Asian mushrooms in the meal. Was Matthew Patterson,

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Speaker 3: her brother in law. Now Matthew at that time, the

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Speaker 3: jury were told, was at hospital with his father and

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Speaker 3: a toxicologist had come into the room and ask questions

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Speaker 3: about where the mushrooms may have come from, and that's

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Speaker 3: when Aaron Patterson says that she recounted that there was

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Speaker 3: these dried mushrooms that she'd used. And as part of

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Speaker 3: this questioning to try and narrow down on exactly what

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Speaker 3: she remembered, Penny and Nett Rogers put to the witness

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Speaker 3: that she had worked for a number of years in

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Speaker 3: that Monash City Council area and should that, according to

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Speaker 3: the prosecution, mean that you really knew that area well,

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Speaker 3: those suburbs, well, there was somewhere where you'd worked, and

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Speaker 3: she also owned a property at one point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was mentioned to Aaron Patterson that she

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Speaker 2: could name some of these particular streets that she'd shopped on,

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Speaker 2: but she said in her cross examination that she didn't

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Speaker 2: really know that this particular area well. And as she

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Speaker 2: was being taken through the evidence of a number of

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Speaker 2: different witnesses, public health officials, people that she'd had discussions

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Speaker 2: with as they were trying to find the source of

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Speaker 2: this possible poisoning. It was put to her by the

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Speaker 2: prosecution that she hadn't answered these questions, that she hadn't

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Speaker 2: always been forthcoming in her communication on phones and on

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Speaker 2: text messages and in what she was telling different people

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Speaker 2: at different times, and the Crown Prosecutor Annette Rodgers accused

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Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson of taking these authorities on a wild goose chase.

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Speaker 3: Yep yeap. She was asked whether or not this whole idea,

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Speaker 3: this whole concept of having dried mushrooms in your pantry

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Speaker 3: you'd purchased from this Asian grocer's store that you couldn't remember,

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Speaker 3: was a big fat lie? Was it true? Were you

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Speaker 3: making up this story in order to send investigators from

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Speaker 3: the Health department from the Monash City Council on this

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Speaker 3: while goosechase to find something that didn't exist, to give

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Speaker 3: you more time to figure out what you were going

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Speaker 3: to do. And it was repeatedly put to Aaron Patterson,

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Speaker 3: were a lot of these post lunch actions because you

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Speaker 3: were worried that doctors had gotten non sooner rather than later,

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Speaker 3: that deathcat mushrooms may have been involved, and she maintained no, repeatedly,

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Speaker 3: repeatedly disagreed with any suggestion that there was deliberate mushroom poisoning.

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Speaker 5: In that lunch, we'll bring you.

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Speaker 4: A bit of the evidence. Now.

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Speaker 2: This is Nannette Rodgers, sc the Crown Prosecutor, speaking with

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Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson in the cross examination, and she's talking about

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Speaker 2: a part of the evidence where Aaron Patterson says in

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Speaker 2: her police interview that she'd been very helpful to these

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Speaker 2: health authorities. And you'll also hear some references to someone

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Speaker 2: in this questioning, and that person is Sally Anne Atkinson.

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Speaker 2: She's been one of the witnesses and one of the

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Speaker 2: people working with the health authorities to try and find

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Speaker 2: the source of the Asian mushrooms.

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Speaker 3: This is voiced by actors.

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Speaker 1: I suggest that you weren't very very helpful to the

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Speaker 1: department at all.

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Speaker 5: I was trying to be that was untrue, incorrect.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you sent them on a wild goose chase

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Speaker 1: trying to locate this Asian groser correct or incorrect, incorrect.

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Speaker 1: Initially you were not very responsive to the Department of Health.

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Speaker 1: I think that's been your evidence.

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Speaker 5: No, it's not my evidence. The first time she rang me.

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Speaker 5: I answered and spoke to her for fifteen.

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Speaker 1: Minutes on one August twenty twenty three at eight thirty

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Speaker 1: three am.

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Speaker 5: Correct, But then.

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Speaker 1: You didn't respond to some of the other texts correct.

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Speaker 5: Correct. I think we've established why that was already.

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Speaker 1: And I suggest that the reason that you didn't answer

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Speaker 1: some of those texts from her was because you did

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Speaker 1: not want to be pressed for details about the Asian

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Speaker 1: grocery store. Incorrect, because that story was not true.

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Speaker 5: Incorrect.

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Speaker 1: It was a lie that you used dried mushrooms from

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Speaker 1: an Asian grosser correct or incorrect.

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Speaker 5: Incorrect.

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Speaker 1: You lied about the source of the death cap mushrooms

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Speaker 1: because you knew you were gill of having deliberately poisoned

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Speaker 1: your four lunch guests.

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Speaker 5: Incorrect.

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Speaker 2: Another part of Aaron Patterson's evidence that was gone back

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Speaker 2: and forth on as part of the cross examination was

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Speaker 2: what happened with her children around this lunch, and she

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Speaker 2: maintains that she fed her son and her daughter on

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Speaker 2: the Sunday night following the Saturday lunch the leftovers from

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Speaker 2: this meal.

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Speaker 3: The evidence the jury has heard as part of this

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Speaker 3: particular topic was that Aaron Patterson told medical personnel and

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Speaker 3: authorities that the Sunday after the lunch, the dinner time.

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Speaker 3: After the lunch, she had fed the leftovers to her children.

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Speaker 3: She'd scraped off the mushroom paste, she'd scraped off the pastry,

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Speaker 3: and fed them what meat was left. She'd also then

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Speaker 3: served up some beans and also some potato with hers

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Speaker 3: part of her examination in the final days as well,

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Speaker 3: we heard from the prosecution questions put to Patterson about

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Speaker 3: what her kids recalled of that meal. So her children,

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Speaker 3: the prosecution say, in their evidence, recalled that Aaron Patterson

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Speaker 3: shared some of those leftovers with her children but didn't

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Speaker 3: really eat a lot of them, and that her son

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Speaker 3: finished them off. But Aaron Patterson, while in the witness box,

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Speaker 3: said no, no, no, that they have a wrong recollection

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Speaker 3: of what happened. In fact, I didn't eat any of

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Speaker 3: those leftovers. I tried to eat cereal, but I wasn't

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Speaker 3: feeling very well.

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Speaker 2: She was taken to the evidence of another witness who

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Speaker 2: says Aaron Patterson told her she tried to eat some

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Speaker 2: cereal on that night, but not the dinner because she

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Speaker 2: wasn't feeling well enough.

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Speaker 4: So she disputed the children's.

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Speaker 2: Recollection of that particular dinner meal that was served. She

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Speaker 2: was also taken through her shopping in the lead up

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Speaker 2: to this meal, and it was expressed by the prosecution

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Speaker 2: that Aaron Patterson, through these shopping records, the Woolworth shopping

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Speaker 2: records that have been shown in the courtroom, went to

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Speaker 2: the shops multiple times.

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Speaker 4: To get ingredients for this meal. She agreed that.

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Speaker 2: She did, but when she was asked specifically by Annette

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Speaker 2: Rogers sc about the meat of this particular recipe, the

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Speaker 2: recipe in each's recipe was calling for that that was

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Speaker 2: supposed to be a log, and the jury was again

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Speaker 2: shown this recipe step by step up on the screens.

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Speaker 4: In the courtroom.

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Speaker 2: The net Rodgers put to Aaron Patterson, you could have

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Speaker 2: tried to get a log like this, a bigger piece

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Speaker 2: of meat from a local butcher. Aaron Patterson denied that.

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Speaker 2: She said that she'd looked at her local Woolworths, that

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Speaker 2: she couldn't find a bigger piece of meat, and so

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Speaker 2: that's why she got the individual stakes. And she denied

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Speaker 2: the allegation from the prosecution that she had deliberately sought

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Speaker 2: out those individual steaks so as she could make individual

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Speaker 2: meals to begin with.

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Speaker 3: And that meat and the size of the meat was

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Speaker 3: another questioning element that arose in the final hours of

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Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson's evidence about why did you cook six beef

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Speaker 3: Wallingtons and when you knew you were only having four

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Speaker 3: lunch guests. And her explanation was, she brought those I

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Speaker 3: fill at stakes in twin packs and she'd put two

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Speaker 3: of those twin packs in the freezer, and that's why

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Speaker 3: she had therefore cooked an extra beef Wllington.

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Speaker 2: The jury's also heard a lot about other ingredients in

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Speaker 2: this meal, specifically mushrooms, and Aaron Patterson agreed with the

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Speaker 2: prosecution that she had purchased in the days leading up

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Speaker 2: to the lunch around one point seventy five grams of mushrooms,

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Speaker 2: and she agreed the recipe called for about seven hundred grams.

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Speaker 2: She told the prosecutor and Nett Rodgers that she'd eaten

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Speaker 2: the extra kilo of mushrooms in those days between the

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Speaker 2: twenty third and the twenty seventh of July, and that

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Speaker 2: left her with seven hundred and fifty grams to make

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Speaker 2: the meal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and she said it wasn't unusual for her to

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Speaker 3: purchase large amounts of mushrooms and would in her memory,

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Speaker 3: often purchase them a couple of times a week. But

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Speaker 3: she did explain that her children didn't like mushrooms, her

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Speaker 3: daughter in particular didn't really like mushrooms. And she was

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Speaker 3: then asked questions by the prosecution about well, did you

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Speaker 3: then tell the authorities that you scraped off that mushroom pace,

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Speaker 3: that those mushrooms were used to make purely to try

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Speaker 3: and mislead them and to explain why the children weren't sick.

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Speaker 3: That's another thing she denied. She said, no, no, no, no, no.

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Speaker 3: We saw her get a little bit emotional when her

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Speaker 3: children were mentioned in different parts of questioning, But this

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Speaker 3: was a denial. She really focused quite heavily on that. No,

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Speaker 3: she did not make up this lie to try and

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Speaker 3: cover her tracks as to why her children weren't sick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she maintained through her evidence that she had scraped

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Speaker 2: off those mushrooms and the pastry, and that that had

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Speaker 2: gone into an outdoor been at her home that was

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Speaker 2: later collected by police and used for some testing through

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Speaker 2: the different health authorities as the patients were falling sicker

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Speaker 2: and sicker. Now, with what Aaron Patterson was being asked

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Speaker 2: around her children, eating this meal. It was put to

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Speaker 2: her a number of times that she seemed, according to

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Speaker 2: some witnesses in their evidence, reluctant to have the children

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Speaker 2: treated at hospital. Now, she maintained that she may have

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Speaker 2: been reluctant initially, but that's because she thought the children

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Speaker 2: hadn't eaten the mushrooms and there was no real risk.

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Speaker 2: But she says once she realized that there was real

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Speaker 2: concern that there could have been deathcat mushrooms in the

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Speaker 2: meal eaten by the children, even though there was no

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Speaker 2: mushrooms on the particular bit, they ate that she did

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Speaker 2: want them to be checked out at hospital.

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Speaker 3: There was a couple of hours after the jury were

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Speaker 3: told Aaron Patterson found out that there was this risk

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Speaker 3: of death cap mushroom contamination that she arranged for her

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Speaker 3: children to be collected from school and then taken to

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Speaker 3: hospital to be examined. And we know that they did

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Speaker 3: stay there overnight for observation.

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Speaker 2: And Aaron Patterson has been spoken to by the prosecution

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Speaker 2: in the cross examination about how she was feeling at

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Speaker 2: this time when she made the kids dinner on the

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Speaker 2: Sunday night, it was put to her that there was

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Speaker 2: evidence from a doctor from the Monash Medical Center that

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Speaker 2: she later ended up at, that she'd thought she had

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Speaker 2: food poisoning symptoms. Aaron Patterson disputed that she said when

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Speaker 2: she first arrived at the Lee and Gatha Hospital, which

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Speaker 2: is the first hospital she went to on the Monday

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Speaker 2: following the Sunday night, she felt that she had gastro symptoms,

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Speaker 2: So she said she didn't think she had food poisoning

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Speaker 2: and disputed that she made her children a dish when

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Speaker 2: she thought that that leftovers could have made her sick initially.

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Speaker 2: She was then taken to some evidence and some different

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Speaker 2: parts that the court has heard regarding when she found

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Speaker 2: out that Don and Gail Patterson, her in laws, were unwell,

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Speaker 2: and the court heard that she first knew on the

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Speaker 2: Sunday that they weren't well.

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Speaker 3: It was a Sunday morning. The jury heard that Aaron

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Speaker 3: Patterson found out through her estranged husband, Simon Patterson, that

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Speaker 3: Don and Gail Patterson were unwell. She maintains so that

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Speaker 3: she didn't think or know, or was informed in any way,

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Speaker 3: shape or form that they were sick from something that

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Speaker 3: had come from the meal. In her mind, it may

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Speaker 3: have just been this gastro that was going around and

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Speaker 3: at that point when she fed her children the leftovers,

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Speaker 3: she says, with the mushroom and pastry scraped off, that

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Speaker 3: she really had no idea that it could be the

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Speaker 3: meal that was making everybody sick.

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Speaker 2: Let's hear a little bit more of the evidence during

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Speaker 2: the cross examination. This is the words of Aaron Patterson

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Speaker 2: and Annette Rogers.

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Speaker 1: I suggest that you told well over a dozen people,

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Speaker 1: including your son and daughter, health professionals, child protection workers, police,

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Speaker 1: and a friend, that you had fed your children the

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Speaker 1: same meal that you had served at lunch on twenty

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Speaker 1: nine July twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I was pretty clear. It was the meal minus

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Speaker 5: the mushrooms and pastries, so not the same.

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Speaker 1: But yes, But isn't it the fact that on Sunday

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Speaker 1: thirty July you found out that at least Don and

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Speaker 1: Gail were unwell.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I did find out about that.

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Speaker 1: So why did you proceed to feed the same meal

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Speaker 1: to your children when you knew or suspected that the

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Speaker 1: meal that you'd served had made them ill?

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Speaker 5: I didn't. I didn't know suspect that.

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Speaker 1: Your son gave evidence in his recorded interview that you

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Speaker 1: told him that Gail and Don were not well. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember the evidence? I do you told that to him?

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Speaker 5: I'm sure I did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, on the Sunday night.

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Speaker 5: I don't know when on the Sunday or I don't

300
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Speaker 5: know when I told him that, but I did tell him.

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Speaker 2: The accused woman has also been taken through whether she

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Speaker 2: deliberately sought out deathcap mushrooms. That's been a key part

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Speaker 2: of all of the evidence in this trial. In her questioning,

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Speaker 2: and she's told the court that she did not del

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Speaker 2: liberately seek out mushrooms in either of the Gippsland towns

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Speaker 2: of Locke and Outram, where there's been evidence that there

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Speaker 2: were posts on the Iron Naturalist site about sightings of

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Speaker 2: mushrooms in these locations.

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Speaker 3: We know from the evidence of one of the other witnesses,

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Speaker 3: a cell tower expert. He maintains that he could see

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Speaker 3: on the data that the phone connected to Aaron Patterson

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Speaker 3: pinned in those particular areas on certain days. Aaron Patterson

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Speaker 3: maintains that that is not true. Maybe she passed through

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Speaker 3: the areas or or whatnot, but there was in no

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Speaker 3: way she had any memory of deliberately driving to those

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Speaker 3: two locations after posts were made on the Our Naturalist

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Speaker 3: showing where deathcap mushrooms were growing. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When she was asked about doctor Tom May's post regarding

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Speaker 2: the deathcap mushrooms he'd cited at Outram, she told the court, Well,

320
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Speaker 2: she said disagree when she was asked a question about

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Speaker 2: seeing that particular post and then heading to that area.

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Speaker 2: And we'll hear a little bit more about what she

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Speaker 2: was asked regards adding another post in Locke and what

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Speaker 2: she did after. The prosecution says she visited that particular area.

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Speaker 5: This is voiced by actors.

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Speaker 1: I suggest that you read the Christine McKenzie post that

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Speaker 1: she'd posted on I Naturalist on eighteen April. Agree or disagree?

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Speaker 5: Disagree?

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Speaker 1: I suggest you drove to Locke from your house at

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Speaker 1: Leanngatha to specifically find death cap mushrooms on twenty eight April.

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Speaker 5: Disagree, and I.

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Speaker 1: Suggest that you found some Agree or disagree?

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00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,720
Speaker 5: Disagree, And I.

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Speaker 1: Suggest that within two hours of finding those death cap

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Speaker 1: mushrooms you drove to the Hartley Wells Better Home Living

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Speaker 1: in Leengatha and bought yourself a dehydrator at twelve seventeen PM.

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Speaker 5: I did buy that that day, yes, And.

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Speaker 1: The purpose of buying the dehydrator was to dehydrate death

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Speaker 1: cap mushrooms. Agree or disagree?

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Speaker 2: Disagree now, Aaron Patterson told the court, Yes, as you heard,

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Speaker 2: she did buy a dehydrature and it was on that

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Speaker 2: particular day in April twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 4: She agreed it was in some part to preserve wild.

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Speaker 2: Mushrooms, to use them at different parts of the year,

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Speaker 2: and also to preserve other foods.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So she really disputed any accusation that

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Speaker 3: it was purchased purely to dry death cap mushrooms and

348
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Speaker 3: then feed them to her lunch guests. And she was

349
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Speaker 3: also then asked a few questions about her foraging and

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Speaker 3: whether or not there could have been deathcap mushrooms in

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Speaker 3: what she'd foraged, And she was explaining to the jury

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Speaker 3: that there's only a couple of months of the year

353
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Speaker 3: that you can forage mushrooms. She said, this is autumn.

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Speaker 3: And she said, so it's that March April may period

355
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Speaker 3: here in Victoria, Australia that you can purchase that you

356
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Speaker 3: can forage for these types of mushrooms, she told the jury.

357
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Speaker 3: So she would have only been possibly able to do

358
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Speaker 3: it a handful of times.

359
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And she told the jury previously in some of

360
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Speaker 2: her evidence which she was taken to by the Crown Prosecutor,

361
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Speaker 2: that when she developed these interest in mushrooms around the

362
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Speaker 2: COVID lockdowns of twenty twenty, that her children were with

363
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Speaker 2: her on some of these walks and times where they

364
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Speaker 2: saw these particular mushrooms out growing in the wild.

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Speaker 4: Now she disputed the.

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Speaker 2: Evidence of her estranged husband, Simon Patterson. He told the

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Speaker 2: court that he had never and it's come through other

368
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,800
Speaker 2: witnesses evidence that he had and all the time he'd

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Speaker 2: known her, never known her.

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Speaker 4: To forage or pick wild mushrooms.

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Speaker 2: And she sort of said, well, how would he necessarily

372
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Speaker 2: know that? And she was taken through a number of

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Speaker 2: different questions that maybe she not necessarily had told that

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Speaker 2: to Simon Patterson.

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Speaker 4: She didn't think that she had.

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Speaker 3: She explained that in their signal chat groups, Penny, there

377
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,879
Speaker 3: was many, many, many messages that were sent between the

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00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,960
Speaker 3: family and also her and Simon Patterson, and she was

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Speaker 3: asked why in none of those was there any mention

380
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,160
Speaker 3: of her foraging mushrooms, And she explained that that wasn't

381
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Speaker 3: really a topic of conversation, cooking and recipes and meals,

382
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,680
Speaker 3: wasn't something that her and Simon really talked about. It

383
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 3: wasn't something that they enjoyed talking about, and that was

384
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Speaker 3: her explanation of why there was nothing to be found

385
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Speaker 3: there by the prosecution.

386
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Speaker 2: Yeah, she said that there was six thousand pages of messages,

387
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Speaker 2: is what her defense barrister put to her in reexamination,

388
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,120
Speaker 2: and she said that they very rarely ever spoke, particularly

389
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,920
Speaker 2: about the meals they were preparing for themselves. She's also

390
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,680
Speaker 2: disputed some more of Simon Patterson's evidence regarding a conversation

391
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Speaker 2: that she says they had at the Monash Medical.

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Speaker 4: Center where she alleges he said to.

393
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Speaker 2: Her is that how you poisoned my parents or what

394
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,439
Speaker 2: you used to poison my parents being the dehydrator, and

395
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,400
Speaker 2: he disputes that he ever said that. Now, Aaron Patterson

396
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 2: maintained that he did say that, and that that is

397
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 2: what led to her starting to think about forage mushrooms

398
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 2: and then panicking in regards to that dehydrator. Now, going

399
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 2: back to her children, as you mentioned before, she's disputed

400
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,680
Speaker 2: some of their evidence around what they had for dinner

401
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 2: that night. She's also now disputed some of the evidence

402
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 2: of her son, who said on the Sunday morning when

403
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 2: she wasn't feeling well, she was having a coffee at

404
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,200
Speaker 2: the dining room table. She says that was a herbal tea,

405
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 2: but that she basically thinks her son has misinterpreted this

406
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 2: because ninety nine percent of the time she would have

407
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 2: been having a coffee and he couldn't necessarily see what

408
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 2: was in that particular mug. But going back to her

409
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 2: children and what she says was this habit of foraging

410
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 2: that she had from twenty twenty. She was really pressed

411
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 2: by the prosecution on why her children didn't give evidence

412
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 2: that they had seen her collecting mushrooms anywhere before.

413
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 6: Yeah.

414
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 3: So during the trial, as we've already mentioned in earlier episodes,

415
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 3: a video recorded evidence for the children were played to

416
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 3: the jury, and that's what Aaron Patterson was asked further

417
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 3: questions about in the last few days of her testimony,

418
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 3: and it was around whether or not she had foraged

419
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 3: with her children, where they'd foraged, how often this may

420
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 3: have occurred, and Aaron Patterson told the jury she recalled

421
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,879
Speaker 3: that her children were with her at times when she

422
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 3: would pick and forage wild mushrooms and believed telling the

423
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 3: jury that her children may have been mistaken or may

424
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 3: not have remembered that those things occurred.

425
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 2: Here's a little bit more of the evidence as the

426
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 2: jury heard it. It's voiced by actors playing at Rogers

427
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 2: and also Aaron Patterson.

428
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: I suggest that your children never knew you to pick

429
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,199
Speaker 1: wild mushrooms. Do you agree or disagree?

430
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 5: Disagree?

431
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: That's because you did not go foraging for non toxic mushrooms.

432
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: Agree or disagree, Ah, incorrect. This is a story you

433
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,159
Speaker 1: have made up for this jury.

434
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 5: Agree or disagree, disagree.

435
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 2: One of the final topics that the Crown prosecutor covered

436
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 2: off in the cross examination was the topic of phones

437
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 2: and various elements about phones. The jury has heard about

438
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 2: a number of different mobile devices that Aaron Patterson used

439
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 2: at different times, and she was asked around some factory resets,

440
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 2: and she says there's a particular phone which is referred

441
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 2: to as Phone B.

442
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 4: She says that she reset.

443
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 2: That mobile phone on the fifth of August, agreeing that

444
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,919
Speaker 2: was well at the same day that police came to

445
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 2: search her home, and that she then reset it on

446
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 2: the sixth of August after it had been taken by police.

447
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 2: That she did that remotely, but she did dispute when

448
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 2: the prosecution put to her, did you reset this mobile

449
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 2: phone while you were given some time to have some

450
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 2: privacy and call a lawyer.

451
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 4: During this police raid, and she said no, she didn't.

452
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 2: She disputed the time that she had called the lawyer

453
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: compared to what time the factory reset was being shown

454
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 2: in the data and said no, that that wasn't during

455
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 2: that particular time.

456
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is incredibly technical evidence at times, and there's

457
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 3: a number of different phones and simcards that have been mentioned,

458
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 3: so to try and break down the timeline and simplify

459
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 3: it a little bit, Aaron Patterson agreed that she purchased

460
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 3: phone as Sam Sung in February twenty twenty three and

461
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 3: use that for a number of months leading up to

462
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 3: quite close to the lunch. She told the jury that

463
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 3: at that point the phone wasn't quite cutting it, and

464
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 3: she decided that she wanted to use a different phone,

465
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 3: and it was at this point and around the time

466
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 3: of the lunch she said she also decided to get

467
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 3: a new phone number because of some accusations that she

468
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 3: says Simon Patterson was making and for her own safety.

469
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 3: The prosecut you should know, alleged that she changed her

470
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 3: phone around the time of the lunch soon after the lunch,

471
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 3: because she knew that there would be things on that

472
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 3: searches internet searches, perhaps researching deathcap mushrooms. Aaron Patterson strongly

473
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 3: denied this, and she strongly denied that she therefore changed

474
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 3: her SIM card for the same reason. She said she

475
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 3: handed over the phone and the SIM card that she

476
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 3: thought police wanted. She said that they didn't clarify with

477
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 3: her exactly what they wanted, and she felt like she

478
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 3: was doing the right thing. We do know that Phone A,

479
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 3: this Samsung that was purchased in February twenty twenty three,

480
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: has never been found, and it is Phone B another

481
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 3: Samsung that was handed to police. Now, those factory resets,

482
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 3: Penny that you just mentioned occurred as well. She was

483
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 3: asked about three of those in particular right towards the

484
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 3: end of her evidence, and she agreed that she performed

485
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 3: those factory resets, But she says for a variety of

486
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 3: different reasons. One was because she was purely changing over

487
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 3: her handsets and in the process of changing over her

488
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 3: phone number as well and resigning up to accounts and

489
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: downloading apps and a like. But the final two resets,

490
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 3: she said, yes, what were for different reasons, and that

491
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 3: third one, the jury is heard was because she thought

492
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 3: the police may have been silly enough to leave it on.

493
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, she said that final reset as part of her evidence.

494
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 2: She wanted to see if it was still connected.

495
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 3: To a network.

496
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 2: And we'll go now to some of the evidence as

497
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 2: it was heard by the jury. Here's a little bit

498
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: of what the court heard from Crown Prosecutor Andette Rodgers

499
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 2: and Aaron Patterson regarding what happened with these phones.

500
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: You told police your phone number ended in eight three five.

501
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 5: I did.

502
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: That was the phone number of phone B it was.

503
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: I suggest that that was a lie to the extent

504
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: that that was not your usual phone number. Agree or disagree.

505
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 5: I wasn't asked if it was my usual phone number.

506
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: Your usual phone number was the one ending in seven

507
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: eight three, correct.

508
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 5: It wasn't until until that day, Yeah, the day before

509
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 5: when I was changing all my numbers.

510
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: After you factory reset this phone on to August, and

511
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: I suggest it was to August. You only used it

512
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: to make three phone calls.

513
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 5: I don't know how many it was.

514
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: Those three phone calls all occurred between around two pm

515
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 1: on five August, when you were given privacy to contact

516
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: a lawyer. Yep, you were happy to provide police with

517
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: this phone phone b Yeah, happy to tell them that

518
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: this phone number was your number eight three five correct.

519
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: And I suggest you did that because you knew there

520
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: was no data on this phone correct or incorrect.

521
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 5: No, I did it because they asked for my phone

522
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 5: and I gave it to them.

523
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 4: It came to this point in the questioning, at the very.

524
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: End of all of these questions that were asked about

525
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 2: the different phones and devices, Nanette Rogers said to the court,

526
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: I'm nearly at the end, and basically that people would

527
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: be pleased to hear that, which got sort of a

528
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 2: bit of a chuckle and a reaction in the courtroom,

529
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: including from the judge's.

530
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 3: She turned to the jury and Aaron Patterson and the

531
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 3: judges she was mentioning this and that they may be

532
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 3: quite relieved that she was getting towards the end of

533
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 3: her evidences have been long days, Penny. The jury are

534
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 3: given multiple breaks during the day, as are sitting at

535
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 3: the bar table. But there was a little bit of

536
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 3: humor in there right at the end of the day.

537
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 2: And then things felt like they changed to being far

538
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: more serious again. When Nanette Rogers said, now I'm going

539
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: to ask you three final questions. She signposted it that way,

540
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 2: and then she turned to the accused woman in the

541
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: witness box, and this is what she asked.

542
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: I suggest that you deliberately sourced death cap mushrooms in

543
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Agree or disagree, disagree. I suggest you

544
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: deliberately included them in the Beef Wellington's You served to

545
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: Don Patterson, Gail Patterson, Ian Wilkinson, and Heather Wilkinson agree

546
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: or disagree, disagree, and you did so intending to kill them.

547
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: Agree or disagree, disagree? Thank you. I have no further questions.

548
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: Now we'll be back after this with some more of

549
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: what both the prosecution and the defense put to Aaron

550
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: Patterson in these final hours regarding gastric bypass surgery. Now,

551
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 2: in the final days of evidence, the listeners have already

552
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: heard this that there's been multiple questions by the Crown

553
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 2: prosecutor regarding plans Aaron Patterson said she had for a

554
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 2: gastric bypass or gastric sleeve weight loss surgery. Now she

555
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: conceded in an earlier part of her evidence that maybe

556
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 2: it was actually liposuction or a different kind of surgery

557
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 2: because it was brought to her by the prosecutor that

558
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: this Enrich clinic she'd named in Melbourne didn't actually offer

559
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 2: gastric bypass surgery. And Aaron Patterson said when she was

560
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: initially bought that evidence that she was really quite puzzled

561
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: because she didn't remember the suburb being the same as.

562
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 4: Where she'd booked.

563
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 2: But she agreed she had booked an appointment, it was

564
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: for a pre surgery consultation and that had been canceled.

565
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: Now as part of her cross examination, she was taken

566
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: to her her medical records. These have been collected from

567
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 2: three GP clinics, is what the jury has been told

568
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: by the lead detective as part of this investigation covering

569
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: the period of twenty twenty three. And Aaron Patterson agreed

570
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 2: there was nothing in those GP records that referred her

571
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: for weight loss surgery or specifically mentioned weight loss surgery.

572
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: And we got to this point, Penny, because Aaron Patterson

573
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: was being asked about her cancer and whether or not

574
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 3: she had cancer, and why she was allowing potentionally other

575
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: family members to think that she had a serious illness

576
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 3: such as cancer or may need some upcoming medical procedures

577
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 3: connected to that serious illness. Now, she told the jury

578
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: in her evidence that she had been wanting to get

579
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: weight loss surgery, but she was embarrassed and didn't want

580
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: her family to know. So she'd gone out and researched

581
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 3: this clinic, and in her evidence she named the clinic,

582
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: and that then saw the prosecution bring in a new statement.

583
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: And so Aaron Patterson was given this new statement and

584
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 3: told to go away and read it over the lunch

585
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 3: break and come back and be asked further questions about this.

586
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 3: Now we heard that this was a statement, a police

587
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 3: statement from somebody that was working at this Enrich clinic

588
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 3: talking about the fact that they don't offer bypass or

589
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 3: gastric bypass related surgeries. They don't currently offer liposuction, and

590
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 3: they really only offer cosmetic procedures for skin, nails, and hair.

591
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: And it was at that point that Aaron Patterson agreed

592
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 3: that yes, she must have been confused or mistaken and

593
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 3: that they didn't offer this gastric bypass related surgery.

594
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 4: Here's a little bit of that evidence as.

595
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: The jury heard it between Nnette Rogers sc and also

596
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson.

597
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: Now that you've had a chance to see and read

598
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 1: that material. Firstly, do you accept that the Enrich Clinic

599
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: does not offer, and has never offered, gastric bypass surgery?

600
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 5: Yes.

601
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: Secondly, do you accept that the Enriched Clinic does not offer,

602
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: and has never offered pre surgery assessments relating to gastric

603
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: bypass surgery?

604
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 6: I do.

605
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: And thirdly, do you accept that the in Rich Clinic

606
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: only conducts examinations and procedures relating to the skin and

607
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: its appendages such as hair and nails.

608
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 5: I do.

609
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: When we saw Colin Mandy sc get up for his

610
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: re examination, which happens after we heard a little bit

611
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: earlier in this episode, Nanette Rogers say that she had

612
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: no further questions. He immediately spoke about the gastric bypass

613
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: surgery and the plans for that, And in that Colin

614
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: Mandy told the jury that his instructors, the lawyers that

615
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: help him, had gone and as part of this got

616
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: a little bit more information.

617
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, they did a web search, is what the jury

618
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: were told. And in that web search he explained that

619
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 3: liposuction was available back in twenty twenty three, when Aaron

620
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 3: Patterson would have made that appointment. She says she made

621
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: the appointment for the thirteenth of September twenty twenty three,

622
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: but actually ended up canceling it a couple of days before.

623
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, so they don't offer liposuction surgery at the moment,

624
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: but they did back in that twenty twenty three periods.

625
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: So that was the clarification that Colin Mandy was seeking

626
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: to make.

627
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he also took Aaron Patterson and the jury

628
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: through some other elements from that website where it said

629
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: that these particular clinic had moved suburbs from Armadale in

630
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: Melbourne to South Yarra in Melbourne, and he's brought that

631
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: to Aaron Patterson. He also took her through some of

632
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: her phone records. It's saying he says that this showed

633
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: she'd made the clinic, that the appointment at the clinic,

634
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: and then also that she received a text message warning

635
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 2: her that there was in the forty eight hour period

636
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: if you want to cancel, you need to do it

637
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: now or you'll be charged. And she agreed she did

638
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 2: cancel that. Now here's a little bit of this evidence

639
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: that was put to Aaron Patterson by Colin Mandy, her barrister.

640
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 4: It's voiced by actors.

641
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 6: It says live persuction with doctor Michael Rich. As of

642
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 6: thirtieth of the sixth, twenty twenty four, doctor Rich will

643
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 6: not be offering life persuction as a treatment option to

644
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 6: our patients.

645
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 5: Yep, I see that.

646
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 6: What was your understanding about what was being offered by

647
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 6: Enriched Clinic as of July twenty twenty.

648
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 5: Well, I understood them to be offering life persuction, and

649
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 5: I also believe they offered the full range of weight

650
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 5: loss surgery treatments like the bypass and the sleeve. I

651
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 5: think they're two different types of things.

652
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 6: But yeah, why did you cancel the appointment?

653
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 5: It was a difficult time. It was a very difficult time.

654
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 6: And do you accept now from this material that you

655
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 6: were mistaken about the fact that Enriched Clinic offered gastric

656
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 6: bypass surgery?

657
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 5: Yes, I was obviously mistaken. Yes.

658
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: Now was more of the re examination.

659
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: It was only around half an hour that Colin Mandy

660
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 2: spoke with his client at the very end of her

661
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: evidence in front of the jury. He asked her a

662
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,719
Speaker 2: multiple questions sort of on a few different topics, and

663
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: those included per potassium levels and the questions that she

664
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: had asked. She says of medical staff when she was

665
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: feeling unwell on the thirty first of July, a few

666
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: days after the lunch. Now, she told the jury that

667
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: she had been tested for potassium around that time and

668
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: that it was about two point six or a higher level,

669
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: and that come the morning when she was talking with

670
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: a toxicologist, that had come right back down, and she'd

671
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 2: had two potassium supplements overnight in relation to those. She

672
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: also was asked by her barrister about what's been called

673
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 2: some of the cooler Master evidence. This is a computer

674
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: that she says came from her son's room that was

675
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: examined by police, and she explained that when she was

676
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: being asked questions earlier by the prosecution, and she insinuated

677
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: that maybe she had been using the computer at that time,

678
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: maybe it was her children. She said she didn't really

679
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 2: have an exact memory of that time, that she still

680
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 2: didn't of seeing these I Naturalist posts or making particular purchases,

681
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: but she accepts that she definitely could have been her.

682
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: That she just answered in that way because she didn't

683
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: have that exact memory. And then she also was taken

684
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: to two other elements involving her children, and this is

685
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 2: where she became a little bit teary. On one occasion,

686
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: the defense asked her a little bit about a ballet

687
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 2: lesson that she said her daughter had that she says

688
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: she needed to go pack her bag for when she

689
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: left the Lee and Gatha Hospital the first time, and

690
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: she said that yes, she did definitely have this rehearsal booked,

691
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: and her barrister took her through that it had to

692
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 2: be canceled and have a look at these text messages

693
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 2: that she says with her estranged husband canceling those, and

694
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: that's when she became a little bit teary speaking about

695
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 2: her daughter. And then she was taken to tie ab

696
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 2: An area in Gippsland to the airport there the day

697
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: after the lunch for her son to have a flying lesson,

698
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: and again this is where she became a little bit teary,

699
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: and in her words, she said that she didn't want

700
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: to cancel on him because he was really passionate about

701
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 2: this and he'd had a lot of canceled.

702
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 4: Lessons and that she didn't want to disappoint him.

703
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 2: But then it got again errand to a different point

704
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 2: where things became much more serious and we heard some

705
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: final things from the defense barrister.

706
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

707
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 3: The judge turned at this point to Colin Mandy and says,

708
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 3: does the defense close its case? Is this where we're

709
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 3: at now? And Colin Mandy agreed, and here's some of

710
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 3: the words that.

711
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 6: The jury heard, and that closes your case. It does

712
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 6: your honor all right, Well, ladies and gentlemen, that's the

713
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 6: completion of the evidence in this case.

714
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: Now, the jury has been told at the completion of

715
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 2: this part of the trial, the completion of Aaron Patterson's evidence,

716
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: that there needs to be some legal discussions, that there's

717
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 2: some legal responsibilities that the judge has in the way,

718
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: that he will give some directions later on to the jury,

719
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 2: and that they don't need to be present for that,

720
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 2: and he didn't want them to wait around. So they

721
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: were told that they can go home for the day.

722
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were sent home earlier. There was a few

723
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 3: smiles on that some of the juror's faces. Has been

724
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 3: a long week and a few of them looked like

725
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 3: they couldn't get up to get out soon enough. They

726
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 3: have been told, though, what will happen next is that

727
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 3: once these legal discussions have concluded, that they'll descend into

728
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 3: what it called final closing submissions. The prosecution will go first.

729
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 3: They're expected to take a couple of days where they

730
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 3: sum up their case. Then the defense will take a

731
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 3: couple of days, potentially one or two days to sum

732
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 3: up their case before we may have another day off,

733
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 3: and then the judge will give the jury what's called

734
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 3: his charge, his instructions before they go out to do

735
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 3: final deliberations.

736
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: The jury was told to keep an eye on their phones,

737
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: and they now have been told that they will not

738
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: be sitting on the Friday, the final day of this

739
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 2: particular week that we're recording, and that they're going to

740
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 2: have a long weekend, so we'll bring you another episode

741
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 2: when the jury.

742
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 4: Is back in the courtroom.

743
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of Say Grace.

744
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 2: Please press the follow button in your app to get

745
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 2: our next episodes as soon as we publish.

746
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 3: For more reporting on the case, check out the Age

747
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 3: and nine News in your browser or app store.

748
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land

749
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: that this podcast was recorded on and wherever you're listening

750
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: to it now.

751
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 4: Say Grace is created and hosted by me Penelope.

752
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 3: Lesh and me Aaron Pearson.

753
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 2: This podcast is produced by Genevieve Rule