1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,720 S1: I'm Elias Vazante. I'm a reporter at the Sydney Morning Herald, 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,480 S1: and I was there at Bondi yesterday. I was swimming 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:16,480 S1: in the water when the gunshots started ringing out. We 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,320 S1: just raced out of the water and ran along with 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,920 S1: hundreds of other people from the beach. Everyone's still dripping 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:31,360 S1: in seawater. Sandy. People were taking cover behind garages and 7 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,159 S1: unit blocks. It was a surreal experience. 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:36,400 S2: Get on the ground. 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,720 S1: It felt like the shots kept going for minutes. They 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:48,880 S1: just didn't stop. It was excruciating. One of the thoughts 11 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,200 S1: that bizarrely ran through my head as I was driving 12 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,800 S1: away from the scene was the fact that my sandals 13 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,360 S1: were still sitting on the sand, and then very quickly 14 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,130 S1: you realize how insignificant that really is? 15 00:01:03,930 --> 00:01:07,530 S3: It is Australia's worst mass shooting in nearly 30 years 16 00:01:07,530 --> 00:01:11,170 S3: after 50. Our coverage of the breaking news from Australia. 17 00:01:11,209 --> 00:01:12,770 S3: A fatal shooting which has killed. 18 00:01:12,770 --> 00:01:15,250 S4: Were firing into crowds of people celebrating the start of 19 00:01:15,250 --> 00:01:16,730 S4: Hanukkah at a people. 20 00:01:16,730 --> 00:01:20,370 S5: Ran for their lives when the firing began. Some taking shelter, 21 00:01:20,410 --> 00:01:23,970 S5: were behind the mass shooting at Sydney's Bondi Beach, which killed. 22 00:01:23,970 --> 00:01:28,330 S4: 15, specifically targeting those who were at that Hanukkah gathering. 23 00:01:28,730 --> 00:01:33,610 S6: This is a targeted attack, an act of evil, anti-Semitism, 24 00:01:34,370 --> 00:01:38,009 S6: terrorism that has struck the heart of our nation. 25 00:01:43,690 --> 00:01:47,930 S7: Like reporter Elias Vasanti, mother of three, Jackie Cohen was 26 00:01:47,930 --> 00:01:51,530 S7: also at Bondi yesterday. She parked her car right outside 27 00:01:51,530 --> 00:01:54,010 S7: the Hanukkah event, but then she and her 12 year 28 00:01:54,050 --> 00:01:56,690 S7: old daughter made their way up to a bar mitzvah 29 00:01:56,730 --> 00:02:00,250 S7: right next door when Sunday's massacre unfolded. 30 00:02:00,530 --> 00:02:03,010 S8: In hindsight, I know I did hear the shots. The 31 00:02:03,010 --> 00:02:05,370 S8: thing that alerted me that there was a problem was 32 00:02:05,370 --> 00:02:09,250 S8: just seeing the sheer amount of people rushing towards us, 33 00:02:09,450 --> 00:02:11,370 S8: rushing out of the way. 34 00:02:11,650 --> 00:02:14,369 S7: They crouched in a bathroom and waited. 35 00:02:14,690 --> 00:02:17,329 S8: We couldn't see anything. We could just hear things so 36 00:02:17,330 --> 00:02:21,370 S8: we could hear that there was, you know, pandemonium happening outside. 37 00:02:21,610 --> 00:02:23,850 S8: One of the guys came in and told me that 38 00:02:23,850 --> 00:02:27,810 S8: there had been a shooting, and yeah, we were just 39 00:02:27,810 --> 00:02:29,970 S8: trying to remain calm and wait. 40 00:02:30,290 --> 00:02:33,410 S7: Jackie's car is still parked there near where the Hanukkah 41 00:02:33,450 --> 00:02:37,530 S7: celebration was. Now the scene of the worst mass shooting 42 00:02:37,650 --> 00:02:41,810 S7: since the Port Arthur attack 30 years ago. For some 43 00:02:41,810 --> 00:02:44,250 S7: in the Jewish community, this is what they've been fearing 44 00:02:44,250 --> 00:02:47,850 S7: for years that a rising tide of anti-Semitism would lead 45 00:02:47,850 --> 00:02:51,810 S7: to such an attack, which has shattered any sense of security. 46 00:02:52,970 --> 00:02:55,489 S8: So on the one hand, you think to yourself, well, why, 47 00:02:55,860 --> 00:02:57,940 S8: How could we put ourselves in this position? On the 48 00:02:57,940 --> 00:03:01,340 S8: other hand, why shouldn't we? Why shouldn't we be able 49 00:03:01,340 --> 00:03:03,900 S8: to exist and celebrate? 50 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:10,459 S7: Today. Crime and justice reporter Amber Schultz on what happened 51 00:03:10,460 --> 00:03:13,220 S7: at Bondi on Sunday night. What is known about the 52 00:03:13,220 --> 00:03:17,940 S7: suspected gunman and what happens from here? This is the 53 00:03:17,940 --> 00:03:30,380 S7: morning edition. I'm Samantha Sellinger Morris. So, Amber, you have 54 00:03:30,380 --> 00:03:32,899 S7: been at Bondi Beach reporting today. This is the day 55 00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:35,420 S7: after the attack. Can you just tell the listeners what 56 00:03:35,420 --> 00:03:36,820 S7: it's been like down there today? 57 00:03:37,020 --> 00:03:39,620 S9: Yeah, so it was really eerie scenes early in the 58 00:03:39,620 --> 00:03:43,220 S9: morning this morning, there were still items that people had 59 00:03:43,220 --> 00:03:46,180 S9: left scattered on the beach when they fled. Um, from 60 00:03:46,180 --> 00:03:49,500 S9: when the guns started firing, um, those items were collected 61 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:52,340 S9: and left along the concrete just near, you know, near 62 00:03:52,340 --> 00:03:55,430 S9: the beach near the waterfront Early this morning, the bodies 63 00:03:55,430 --> 00:03:57,910 S9: of those that were killed were still lying where they 64 00:03:57,910 --> 00:04:00,710 S9: had fallen. A lot of people had come out to 65 00:04:00,750 --> 00:04:03,110 S9: to pay their respects to the victims and as well 66 00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:06,190 S9: as try and understand exactly what happened. You know, there 67 00:04:06,190 --> 00:04:09,510 S9: was a lot of people still processing how something so 68 00:04:09,510 --> 00:04:13,430 S9: horrible could happen in Sydney. There was also this outpouring 69 00:04:13,430 --> 00:04:16,589 S9: of support from, you know, local businesses. One one business, 70 00:04:16,589 --> 00:04:19,589 S9: the depot was giving away free coffee. There was a 71 00:04:19,589 --> 00:04:22,990 S9: lot of politicians and community leaders just sort of reiterating 72 00:04:22,990 --> 00:04:25,390 S9: this message of togetherness and calmness. 73 00:04:25,790 --> 00:04:29,070 S7: And can you just remind us how this actually unfolded yesterday? 74 00:04:29,550 --> 00:04:33,990 S9: So yesterday it was about 630, 640 in the in 75 00:04:34,029 --> 00:04:37,950 S9: the afternoon there were heaps of people swimming at Bondi. Um, 76 00:04:37,950 --> 00:04:40,669 S9: there was lots of the Jewish community out celebrating the 77 00:04:40,670 --> 00:04:43,029 S9: first day of Hanukkah with an event, um, Hanukkah by 78 00:04:43,029 --> 00:04:46,670 S9: the sea, when all of a sudden shots rang out. 79 00:04:48,150 --> 00:04:50,550 S9: So these two shooters had pulled up in their in 80 00:04:50,589 --> 00:04:54,680 S9: their car towards a footbridge near Campbell Parade and pulled 81 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,080 S9: up in that car. Come out and run up on 82 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,719 S9: the footbridge and started shooting at these festival attendees. Those 83 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,440 S9: two shooters have since been identified as father and son duo. 84 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,679 S9: So the father is Saeed Akram and the son is Akram. 85 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,760 S9: The ages of 50 and 24. Um, they stood on 86 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,719 S9: that footbridge firing until Saeed went down to the grass. 87 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,640 S9: He was later followed by Navid. People ducked for cover. 88 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,560 S9: Police were called within minutes and arrived within minutes. At 89 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,320 S9: about 645. But it took, it seemed, around 45 minutes 90 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,000 S9: to stop those shooters and fully apprehend them. Um, both 91 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,719 S9: were injured. Uh, one was fatally shot. That we believe 92 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,440 S9: is the father. Jay-Z and his son, Naveed Akram, was 93 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:36,520 S9: taken into custody. 94 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,440 S7: And I think many of us saw footage, you know, 95 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,839 S7: of one of the gunmen who appeared to be waving 96 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,000 S7: other people away. Can you tell us about that? 97 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,640 S9: Yes. So that was the 24 year old son, Naveed Akram. 98 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,159 S9: There's footage of him up on his bridge. Um, his 99 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,839 S9: father's run down across the bridge to the grass, and 100 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,320 S9: he appears to be waving people running behind him, sort 101 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,880 S9: of away from the scene. It's not clear whether that's 102 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:01,960 S9: what he was doing or, you know, whether he's telling 103 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,760 S9: them to to stop yelling or be quiet. Um, it's 104 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,120 S9: pretty unclear, but he's certainly seemed to be directing people 105 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,560 S9: away out of the line of sight of of fire. 106 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,760 S7: Is there any suggestion that he was sort of waving 107 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,160 S7: people that he didn't think were Jewish away, and that 108 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,760 S7: he was sort of instead wanting to target Jewish people specifically? 109 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,560 S7: I certainly don't know. That's the case. That's what people 110 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,600 S7: have been sort of saying. And by people, I mean 111 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,520 S7: not experts. But that's what people are sort of saying anecdotally. 112 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,719 S7: Do we know, do we have any indication if that's 113 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:29,640 S7: what was happening? 114 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,080 S9: We don't know for sure. I mean, it's easy to speculate. 115 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,599 S9: It's certainly we can say that it was a Jewish 116 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,839 S9: event and the Jewish community that was targeted, um, police 117 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,720 S9: haven't said yet whether they've found a manifesto or anything, 118 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,240 S9: you know, that's directly, um, pointing to what these people 119 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,800 S9: were trying to do. But we can certainly say that 120 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,130 S9: the Jewish community was targeted in this attack. 121 00:06:50,170 --> 00:06:53,490 S7: And then there's another phenomenal moment, some phenomenal footage of 122 00:06:53,490 --> 00:06:56,530 S7: a man who was sheltering between some parked cars. And 123 00:06:56,529 --> 00:06:59,210 S7: he actually rushes towards one of the gunmen. He wrestles 124 00:06:59,210 --> 00:07:02,130 S7: the rifle away from him. Tell us what happened, because 125 00:07:02,130 --> 00:07:04,570 S7: it's certainly I mean, it's it's breathtaking. 126 00:07:04,610 --> 00:07:08,290 S9: It's breathtaking. It's an incredible display of heroism and it's 127 00:07:08,290 --> 00:07:11,290 S9: incredible footage. It's this man who we've since identified as 128 00:07:11,450 --> 00:07:14,610 S9: Ahmed El Ahmed, who was a bystander at the scene, 129 00:07:14,650 --> 00:07:17,450 S9: who races up to, um, to one of the gunmen 130 00:07:17,450 --> 00:07:20,130 S9: and wrestles the the gun off him and sort of 131 00:07:20,170 --> 00:07:22,290 S9: aims it at him as the gunman runs away and 132 00:07:22,290 --> 00:07:25,010 S9: then leans the gun against a tree. So we found 133 00:07:25,010 --> 00:07:27,130 S9: out now that this this man, he owns a tobacco 134 00:07:27,130 --> 00:07:30,050 S9: shop and he was injured in the attack, and he's 135 00:07:30,050 --> 00:07:33,330 S9: having surgery at Saint George Hospital. Um, he's been lauded 136 00:07:33,330 --> 00:07:36,690 S9: by Anthony Albanese and, you know, US President Donald Trump 137 00:07:36,850 --> 00:07:40,770 S9: for his heroism and his bravery. It was incredibly impressive 138 00:07:40,810 --> 00:07:43,490 S9: scenes to, um, you know, run towards a man with 139 00:07:43,490 --> 00:07:47,500 S9: a very, very large gun and managed to take it 140 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:49,580 S9: off him. And it's not clear, you know, how many 141 00:07:49,580 --> 00:07:51,740 S9: lives he saved, but he certainly slowed him down. 142 00:07:51,740 --> 00:07:55,300 S7: And so was there actually any explosive devices in their car? 143 00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:58,220 S7: Because we've seen a lot of reports of explosive devices 144 00:07:58,220 --> 00:07:59,380 S7: that have been found. 145 00:07:59,620 --> 00:08:03,340 S9: We now know that there were three explosive devices found. 146 00:08:03,380 --> 00:08:06,900 S9: We don't have further details on, you know, whether they were, um, 147 00:08:07,380 --> 00:08:09,500 S9: you know, whether they had the potential to be detonated 148 00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:12,580 S9: or what they were made of. Um, but police found 149 00:08:12,580 --> 00:08:17,140 S9: two devices on Sunday evening in that car that was 150 00:08:17,140 --> 00:08:19,739 S9: left on Campbell Parade, and a third device was located 151 00:08:19,740 --> 00:08:21,900 S9: in that car, um, today on Monday. 152 00:08:22,140 --> 00:08:24,940 S7: And I guess tell us what happened when the police arrived. 153 00:08:25,180 --> 00:08:27,620 S9: So police began firing at the gunmen who were both 154 00:08:27,660 --> 00:08:31,020 S9: on the on the bridge. One, um, is hit and 155 00:08:31,020 --> 00:08:33,820 S9: I believe that was the the father said, um, and 156 00:08:33,820 --> 00:08:36,420 S9: collapses and the other one appeared to be shot as well. 157 00:08:36,460 --> 00:08:39,220 S9: Now there is some footage of, um, a civilian running 158 00:08:39,220 --> 00:08:41,740 S9: up and attacking one of the gunmen. They appear to 159 00:08:41,780 --> 00:08:43,500 S9: kick him in the head, and that person was then 160 00:08:43,540 --> 00:08:47,309 S9: apprehended by police. Um police then descended on the gunman 161 00:08:47,309 --> 00:08:50,590 S9: and started administering aid to to keep them alive. So 162 00:08:50,590 --> 00:08:53,150 S9: we we know that Navid is in hospital under police 163 00:08:53,150 --> 00:08:56,470 S9: guard and may be charged once he is is a 164 00:08:56,470 --> 00:08:57,670 S9: little bit more recovered. 165 00:08:57,710 --> 00:09:00,390 S7: Okay. And we're recording this late on Monday afternoon, so 166 00:09:00,390 --> 00:09:02,230 S7: can you just give us an update on the number 167 00:09:02,230 --> 00:09:05,429 S7: of casualties and wounded and what we know about them? 168 00:09:05,470 --> 00:09:09,590 S9: Yeah. Of course. So it's been, um, 15 people have have, um, 169 00:09:09,790 --> 00:09:13,030 S9: tragically lost their lives, you know, plus that additional one 170 00:09:13,030 --> 00:09:15,590 S9: the shooter. So 16 dead total. Um, and there are 171 00:09:15,590 --> 00:09:18,709 S9: at least 40 injured, I believe, 42 in hospital. Um, 172 00:09:18,710 --> 00:09:22,990 S9: and the range of victims is is pretty heartbreaking. So 173 00:09:22,990 --> 00:09:26,630 S9: the youngest was just ten years old. Matilda. She's being 174 00:09:26,630 --> 00:09:28,870 S9: remembered as a very sweet girl. She was injured at 175 00:09:28,870 --> 00:09:31,590 S9: the scene and then, um, couldn't be saved. We also 176 00:09:31,590 --> 00:09:34,790 S9: know that there's Assistant Rabbi Eli Schlanger, who was a 177 00:09:34,790 --> 00:09:38,309 S9: husband and father of five. Um, and tragically, he tragically, 178 00:09:38,309 --> 00:09:41,230 S9: his youngest son, his youngest child was born just six 179 00:09:41,230 --> 00:09:44,670 S9: weeks ago. Uh, there was a French tourist who's travelling 180 00:09:44,670 --> 00:09:47,590 S9: the world, Dan Elkayam, who was in his late 20s. 181 00:09:47,630 --> 00:09:51,189 S9: He'd been in Australia, um, and was working, uh, for 182 00:09:51,190 --> 00:09:53,750 S9: a number of years here and was celebrating Hanukkah. We 183 00:09:53,750 --> 00:09:56,430 S9: also know there was Yakob Levitan, who was another rabbi 184 00:09:56,470 --> 00:10:00,309 S9: who lost his life, and Holocaust survivor and Ukraine native 185 00:10:00,550 --> 00:10:01,790 S9: Alex Kleitman. 186 00:10:02,270 --> 00:10:04,550 S7: And a lot more is also known today about the 187 00:10:04,550 --> 00:10:07,270 S7: suspected gunman. So can you just tell me what we 188 00:10:07,309 --> 00:10:08,590 S7: now know about them? 189 00:10:08,590 --> 00:10:10,550 S9: So we know it was a father son duo, which 190 00:10:10,550 --> 00:10:14,670 S9: was Sayeed and Naveed Akram, which ages 50 and 24. 191 00:10:14,910 --> 00:10:19,190 S9: Um Sayeed had a gun license and was found to 192 00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:21,430 S9: be a fit and proper person ten years ago to 193 00:10:21,470 --> 00:10:24,949 S9: hold his gun license and legally owned six firearms. He 194 00:10:24,950 --> 00:10:27,550 S9: was a member of a recreational gun club, which means 195 00:10:27,550 --> 00:10:30,150 S9: he could, um, he could have guns for for hunting 196 00:10:30,150 --> 00:10:33,470 S9: or recreation. We also know his son, Naveed, was a 197 00:10:33,470 --> 00:10:36,990 S9: bricklayer who was laid off about two months ago. Uh, 198 00:10:37,030 --> 00:10:39,150 S9: the pair told family that they were going on a 199 00:10:39,150 --> 00:10:42,240 S9: fishing trip for the weekend, which, um, wasn't uncommon for them. 200 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,120 S9: They often went down to Jervis Bay to go fishing 201 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,640 S9: and scuba diving. So they kept up this ruse with 202 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,679 S9: the family and said that that's what they would be 203 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,640 S9: doing for the weekend. Um, even on the morning of 204 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,080 S9: the shooting, telling family, you know, lie saying that they 205 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,320 S9: had been scuba diving and had been fishing and were 206 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,920 S9: going to stay indoors because it was hot. 207 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:02,640 S7: And you've actually spoken to the mother of Naveed Akram? 208 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,160 S7: He's the 24 year old suspected shooter. So can you 209 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,640 S7: tell me how did that actually come about and what 210 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:08,800 S7: did she tell you? 211 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,200 S9: So I was on the phone to Navid's mother and 212 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,560 S9: Saeed's wife on on Sunday evening. She had no idea 213 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,520 S9: what was going on. I was speaking to her as 214 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,640 S9: police were arriving to her house and had yet to 215 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,160 S9: knock on her door. And I was asking her questions about, 216 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,439 S9: you know, her son, because he had been identified, um, 217 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,959 S9: informally as the alleged shooter, someone I believe had found 218 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,400 S9: his ID. Um, she had no idea that anything like 219 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,040 S9: this was possible. She, you know, told me that he 220 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,210 S9: was a good boy, that he never got into any trouble. He, um, 221 00:11:40,330 --> 00:11:42,450 S9: you know, went to work, came home and was an 222 00:11:42,490 --> 00:11:46,130 S9: avid exerciser, went outside for for runs and swims and 223 00:11:46,130 --> 00:11:48,370 S9: to the gym. Um, didn't appear to have a lot 224 00:11:48,370 --> 00:11:50,490 S9: of friends, but she also said he didn't appear to 225 00:11:50,530 --> 00:11:53,330 S9: spend a lot of time online and didn't seem to 226 00:11:53,330 --> 00:11:56,650 S9: have extremist ideologies. Um, she told me he was more 227 00:11:56,929 --> 00:12:01,130 S9: interested in fishing memes, and her husband worked or owned 228 00:12:01,130 --> 00:12:03,490 S9: a fruit and vegetable shop nearby. And again, they said 229 00:12:03,490 --> 00:12:05,650 S9: that they were on this fishing trip for the weekend. 230 00:12:05,650 --> 00:12:07,650 S7: And what was her voice like on the phone? I mean, 231 00:12:07,690 --> 00:12:11,090 S7: did she sound shaken? Was she sort of shocked to 232 00:12:11,130 --> 00:12:13,410 S7: be answering these sorts of questions about her son. 233 00:12:13,450 --> 00:12:16,330 S9: In complete disbelief? Um, and we didn't know at the 234 00:12:16,330 --> 00:12:19,530 S9: time Naveed hadn't been confirmed as one of the shooters. So, 235 00:12:19,770 --> 00:12:21,570 S9: you know, no one really knew. And it was just 236 00:12:21,570 --> 00:12:25,209 S9: talking to her about if she had heard or knew anything, um, in, 237 00:12:25,250 --> 00:12:27,809 S9: you know, complete disbelief. But then I, um, you know, 238 00:12:27,850 --> 00:12:30,449 S9: I asked if she would be comfortable identifying a photo 239 00:12:30,450 --> 00:12:32,969 S9: of of the alleged shooter at the scene, and, and 240 00:12:32,970 --> 00:12:35,490 S9: she said, yes, you know, she she said she wasn't 241 00:12:35,490 --> 00:12:38,090 S9: able to identify him. She said it looked different, but 242 00:12:38,130 --> 00:12:40,490 S9: you know, her voice started cracking and I think she 243 00:12:40,490 --> 00:12:43,449 S9: realized with so many police outside her house that, you know, 244 00:12:43,490 --> 00:12:46,090 S9: her family had been swept up in something, or her 245 00:12:46,090 --> 00:12:49,050 S9: family had been responsible for something, um, awful. 246 00:12:49,210 --> 00:12:51,170 S7: And so tell us about how this pair actually had 247 00:12:51,210 --> 00:12:53,250 S7: access to guns. I know you mentioned a bit earlier 248 00:12:53,250 --> 00:12:55,130 S7: that one of them was a member of a recreational 249 00:12:55,130 --> 00:12:58,050 S7: gun club. Is that what accounts for their guns, or 250 00:12:58,050 --> 00:12:59,970 S7: was there other means of access? 251 00:13:00,010 --> 00:13:02,050 S9: Well, we don't actually know for sure at this point. 252 00:13:02,050 --> 00:13:05,929 S9: Police haven't confirmed what guns were used. There appeared to 253 00:13:05,929 --> 00:13:08,850 S9: be multiple, um, you know, multiple large guns at the 254 00:13:08,850 --> 00:13:11,730 S9: scene and just a phenomenal amount of rounds. So how 255 00:13:11,730 --> 00:13:14,770 S9: they had access to this much ammunition, um, and which 256 00:13:14,770 --> 00:13:17,530 S9: guns were used and whether those guns were the guns 257 00:13:17,530 --> 00:13:20,370 S9: that um said was licensed to hold. It's still unclear 258 00:13:20,370 --> 00:13:21,130 S9: at this time. 259 00:13:21,170 --> 00:13:22,970 S7: And tell us, I mean, were either of them known 260 00:13:22,970 --> 00:13:24,689 S7: to police or spy agencies? 261 00:13:24,809 --> 00:13:29,770 S9: So Naveed Akram was known to police. Um, but they 262 00:13:29,929 --> 00:13:32,450 S9: they had no indication that, you know, this attack was 263 00:13:32,450 --> 00:13:36,460 S9: was imminent. He was assessed by ASIO, Australia's spy agency 264 00:13:36,460 --> 00:13:40,940 S9: in 2019. However, it's since come out that, uh, he 265 00:13:40,940 --> 00:13:43,380 S9: was the subject of the investigation because of the people 266 00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:47,180 S9: he associated with, um, rather than direct concerns about his 267 00:13:47,179 --> 00:13:50,740 S9: own character. So he was investigated, investigated for six months, 268 00:13:50,740 --> 00:13:54,380 S9: and then the investigation concluded with police, um, finding no, 269 00:13:54,380 --> 00:13:56,459 S9: no need to, um, keep monitoring him. 270 00:13:56,460 --> 00:13:59,380 S7: And, of course, we're already seeing pressure on our leaders 271 00:13:59,380 --> 00:14:01,900 S7: to to enact change, to sort of prevent this sort 272 00:14:01,900 --> 00:14:04,620 S7: of horror from happening again. We know both Prime Minister 273 00:14:04,620 --> 00:14:08,179 S7: Anthony Albanese and New South Wales Premier Chris Minns today 274 00:14:08,220 --> 00:14:11,020 S7: said that they would toughen gun laws. So what did 275 00:14:11,020 --> 00:14:12,540 S7: they say needs to change? 276 00:14:12,860 --> 00:14:16,580 S9: So Premier Chris Minns is considering recalling Parliament to reform 277 00:14:16,580 --> 00:14:20,380 S9: gun laws, laws to make it more difficult to own guns. 278 00:14:20,420 --> 00:14:23,100 S9: You know, he's saying that a firearm licence shouldn't be 279 00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:26,940 S9: in perpetuity. Exactly as said, um, you know, managed to 280 00:14:26,940 --> 00:14:29,180 S9: have his licence for ten years, that there needs to 281 00:14:29,180 --> 00:14:31,820 S9: be more reassessments. But he's also said that it's just 282 00:14:31,820 --> 00:14:34,270 S9: too early to go into the logistics of what kind 283 00:14:34,270 --> 00:14:37,870 S9: of reform could be on the table. Prime Minister Anthony 284 00:14:37,870 --> 00:14:41,950 S9: Albanese hosted on Monday afternoon a national cabinet to discuss 285 00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:45,070 S9: gun reform and gun laws. He also wants to limit 286 00:14:45,510 --> 00:14:48,510 S9: the number of firearms that people can own or be 287 00:14:48,510 --> 00:14:51,910 S9: licensed to use. Albanese also said that people can be 288 00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:55,150 S9: radicalised over a period of time, and reiterated that licences 289 00:14:55,150 --> 00:14:56,990 S9: should not be granted in perpetuity. 290 00:14:57,990 --> 00:15:00,310 S7: And at the top of this episode, Amber, we featured 291 00:15:00,310 --> 00:15:02,830 S7: a member of the Jewish community. This is Jackie Cohen. 292 00:15:02,830 --> 00:15:04,990 S7: She's a mother of three, and she was at a 293 00:15:04,990 --> 00:15:07,750 S7: bar mitzvah next to where the attack took place on 294 00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:10,790 S7: Sunday evening. And one thing she spoke about was feeling 295 00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:14,070 S7: like she hasn't been sufficiently protected. So what have you 296 00:15:14,110 --> 00:15:17,110 S7: heard from the Jewish community during your reporting on this? 297 00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:20,270 S9: There is frustration among a lot of members of the 298 00:15:20,270 --> 00:15:25,030 S9: Jewish community. CEO of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, 299 00:15:25,070 --> 00:15:28,670 S9: Alex Ryvchin, had some pretty strong statements. You know, he 300 00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:30,630 S9: sort of said that for the past two years, the 301 00:15:30,630 --> 00:15:33,440 S9: writing has been on the wall, um, and that anti-Semitism 302 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:39,320 S9: has been growing in Australia. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu 303 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,680 S9: has also criticised Australia for not taking enough steps to 304 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,720 S9: protect the Jewish community. The Australian government and the New 305 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,920 S9: South Wales Police have taken steps to, you know, extra measures, 306 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:54,080 S9: extra police on the ground security measures to protect Australia's 307 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,280 S9: Jewish community. So there has been response. But as this 308 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,440 S9: event shows, there is the Jewish community has been targeted 309 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,800 S9: and that the fear has rippled through the community and 310 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,360 S9: a lot of people. It's a very palpable sense of fear, 311 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,160 S9: and they feel that, you know, a lot of their 312 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,360 S9: fears have been realized and that perhaps they weren't listened to. 313 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,280 S9: But I just want to reiterate, you know, many of 314 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,720 S9: the rabbis and community leaders have said that now is 315 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,840 S9: not time for hate. Now is not the time for 316 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,200 S9: blame or finger pointing. It is the time for unity, 317 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,800 S9: for peace and calm and to come together and stay strong. 318 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,360 S7: Well, we're so, so lucky that you've been reporting on 319 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,120 S7: the ground about this. So thank you so much, Amber, 320 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:34,920 S7: for your time. 321 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:35,960 S9: Thanks for having me. 322 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,640 S7: Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Julia Carcasole. 323 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,640 S7: Our executive producer is Tami Mills. Tom Mackendrick is our 324 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,560 S7: head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon 325 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,360 S7: as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify, 326 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,960 S7: or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered 327 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,040 S7: by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit the page 328 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:12,520 S7: or smh.com.au. Subscribe. And to stay up to date, sign 329 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,080 S7: up to our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary 330 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,760 S7: of the day's most important news in your inbox every morning. 331 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,840 S7: Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris, 332 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:24,200 S7: thanks for listening.