S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a
S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and
S1: Mel Cambrai. Guys, it's Ari's day. Thomas and I are
S1: heading along to the ceremony tonight. It's Wednesday as we're
S1: recording this, but by the time the episode is out,
S1: all the winners will be announced. Any vibes? Any tips?
S1: Are you feeling the rush?
S2: I am feeling the rush, which could be a medical thing,
S2: but yeah, I mean, look, obviously Troy, he's like one
S2: of the biggest pop stars in the world right now,
S2: so I don't doubt it'll be a big night for
S2: young Troye Sivan and for you.
S3: Too, I imagine as well. That's one of my prediction.
S2: I think we will also be feeling the rush.
S1: At various different points. I mean, big week for Troy.
S1: I mean, he's presenting the Arias. He's like a hot
S1: favourite to win a swag of awards. But also over
S1: the weekend, him and Kylie Minogue both nominated for Grammys
S1: in the same categories. This is a new category. The
S1: Grammys introduced this year called best Dance pop.
S2: Most Fabulous Australian.
S1: Yeah, basically. So there's five nominees. Two of them are
S1: David Guetta and two of them are Australians, which is
S1: Troye and Kylie. It's for rush and for Padam. Padam.
S1: That's pretty exciting for for our compatriots. Yeah, that's.
S2: Their two kind of living legends. Also, he was parodied
S2: on Saturday Night Live by Timothee Chalamet, which is like
S2: some kind of twink wet dream for people. But have
S2: you seen the video? In the video? It's very funny.
S2: Tori reposted it.
S1: Did you guys think that like, I, you know, I've
S1: been seeing Troy kind of bubble up for a while.
S1: You know, the idol was was a moment for him
S1: as well. I was a bit taken aback by the
S1: SNL thing. And like Timothee playing him, I'm like, this
S1: guy's entered the stratosphere now. Yeah.
S2: He's like, that's like proper pop culture, you know, at
S2: its finest.
S3: Yeah, I think it's going to be Troys night, but
S3: one of my favorite categories at the Arias that I
S3: think is always a bit weird is the most popular
S3: international artist category. And I saw your mate Luke Combs
S3: is on there.
S2: I'm sure he'll probably win.
S1: Yeah. Luke Holmes, Morgan Wallen, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, like I'm.
S3: Sure they're.
S1: They're all hanging out to find out.
S2: Sitting on zoom being like, fuck over, win this.
S3: And I just like the idea of who the Australians love. Like,
S3: surely Ed Sheeran. I always feel like Australians have an
S3: obsession with Ed Sheeran.
S1: I think Taylor just this year is the year of Taylor,
S1: and I think the Irish want to recognize that.
S2: All right, well, I will eat my hat if Luke
S2: Combs doesn't win. Okay. All right. Are you wearing a
S2: hat and wearing a.
S1: Ten gallon hat in honor of Luke Combs? Correct. Look,
S1: today on the show, we're going to be talking about
S1: the killer. It's the latest film from David Fincher, the
S1: director of Gone Girl, The Social Network, Fight Club, Zodiac, many,
S1: many others. We're going to talk about the film, which
S1: is number one on Netflix right now, how it sort
S1: of fits in and relates to Fincher's wider filmography. We're
S1: also going to discuss the new show from one of
S1: our favorites, Nathan Fielder, the mind behind Nathan For You
S1: and The Rehearsal. This one is called The Curse. It's
S1: a drama kind of comedy, and it also stars the
S1: wonderful Emma Stone, who is excellent in this as she
S1: is in all things. All right, let's talk about the killer.
UU: This is what it takes.
S4: My process. It's purely logistical. If I am effective.
UU: That's because of one simple fact I don't give a.
S1: The 12th feature film from David Fincher. It's his second
S1: for Netflix. It's about an unnamed hitman played by Michael Fassbender,
S1: who's on a job in Paris. Unfortunately, the job goes wrong.
S1: Fassbender's character's forced to go on the run, he becomes
S1: a target himself, and we follow him on this globe
S1: trotting journey as he tries to figure out who is
S1: trying to kill him and why. I thought this was
S1: a slick and fun and at moments like very, very
S1: funny film as well, but I am curious about the
S1: reaction to it more broadly from you guys, and also
S1: how you think audiences will react to it, because I
S1: think if you see something called The Killer on Netflix,
S1: you might expect a kind of extraction style, really intense,
S1: really violent action film with a lot of set pieces.
S1: The killer has a couple of very extraordinary sequences that
S1: Finch is very well known for, but it's largely like
S1: a pretty interior melancholy, like, individually focused film. What did
S1: you guys make of it?
S3: Well, I guess that's kind of what David Fincher does
S3: in a lot of his films is he takes a genre,
S3: and then he reworks it in the David Fincher style,
S3: and I think that's what he did here. Like on
S3: the surface. And you guys know, I've been hitting I've
S3: been hitting a lot of equalizer lately, so I'm a
S3: bit of an expert in this subject. On the surface,
S3: this is kind of a film about an assassin, which
S3: we've which we've seen plenty of, but I think he
S3: pares back so much. And he it is so sleek
S3: and so methodical and cool and calculated that it is
S3: unlike those other films. I loved it, I thought it
S3: was fantastic. I don't think it's the best Fincher film.
S3: I don't think it's the most interesting Fincher film. But
S3: I think in terms of movies that are out at
S3: the moment, it's a really great one to watch.
S2: Yeah, I really liked it. I feel like I watched
S2: it in what is the absolute like ideal scenario as
S2: I watch it on Sunday morning, I had like a
S2: very long Saturday, and I was incredibly hung over on
S2: Sunday and it was like the perfect film. Firstly, it's
S2: like almost exclusively narrated by Fassbender as this kind of
S2: nameless character. So it was good to have someone just like,
S2: talk at me. They did a really nice, you know,
S2: he's like his voice is quite like, yeah, it's like melancholic,
S2: but it's like calming or something. And the whole film
S2: is kind of gloomy and just the way it, like
S2: pours over you. It is very funny. But also it's
S2: like it's kind of like foreboding and then you don't
S2: know what's going on. But then there is like this
S2: action I just like I loved it so much. I
S2: thought it was one of Fincher's best, actually. And yeah,
S2: I think people will definitely get sucked into the Netflix
S2: thing of like, oh, the kill this. Probably like a
S2: Statham film. Yeah, and it's definitely not that. But I
S2: was very surprised by it.
S1: Yeah, I we should talk about how it was released. Right.
S1: So so Fincher has been making these movies for Netflix.
S1: He made one called Mank a couple of years ago.
S1: We'll talk about that a bit later on in the episode.
S1: And then The Killer. And so they get this short
S1: cinema release for a couple of weeks, and then they
S1: go to Netflix. I'm sort of sad I didn't get
S1: the opportunity to watch this at the theaters, partly because, like,
S1: the sound design is one really interesting and unique part
S1: of this. And also just like watching someone like Fincher,
S1: who is so precise and calculating about what his shots
S1: look like and the edits and stuff, would have been
S1: really fun. I watch it with my housemates at home
S1: and we like, kind of close the curtains and got
S1: it as close to a movie experience as possible, and
S1: that was really fun experience. And then I thought I
S1: wanted to watch it again, and I watch on the
S1: plane on the way up from Melbourne, which not ideal
S1: on a phone, but I watch it with like my
S1: fancy Bose noise cancelling headphones, and that was pretty sick
S1: because there are a couple of really interesting sound choices
S1: that I didn't quite clock with it. Mel, I presume
S1: you saw it at home?
S3: I did, I watched it on TV. I kind of
S3: agree with you. Seeing it in a cinema would have
S3: been the ideal way to watch it, because there are
S3: some beautiful scenes. Like one of the ones that stands
S3: out to me is when Fassbender's character is disposing of
S3: a gun that he's used, and there's this kind of
S3: tracking shot where he's on a motorbike and he's riding
S3: through Paris, and it's just so world scene.
S1: That's the moped. I think that is one of the most, like,
S1: just low key, astonishing things. You just like this is
S1: just a guy. He's kind of on the run, but
S1: he isn't. And any other director could have done a
S1: fine version of that. But Finch is like, no, I'm
S1: going to make this, like, something that really stands out. Really,
S1: really interesting. Yeah.
S3: Completely agree. And even the details, it kind of opens
S3: with him in this abandoned rework office and the details
S3: of his life and the routines, and there's just so
S3: much crammed into every shot. And, you know, it's all
S3: so deliberate because we know how Fincher works and how
S3: meticulous he is as a director that I do think
S3: seeing on a big screen, just purely because of the
S3: lighting setting, the sound setting, and the absence of kind
S3: of noise around you would have made for an even
S3: better viewing.
S1: Let's talk about some of the specific, I guess, choices
S1: in the movie that have made it like feel a
S1: bit different because like you said at the start, I
S1: think you nailed it, that this is like a genre movie.
S1: It has a lot in common with a lot of
S1: movies about assassins. Also, that sort of samurai revenge kind
S1: of kind of genre. But he's done some things that
S1: make this feel very new and interesting as well. And Thomas,
S1: you mentioned that the vast majority of the movie is
S1: just the perspective of the killer, the unnamed guy played
S1: by Fassbender, and the overwhelming majority of the script, like
S1: the dialogue, is not really dialogue. It's a monologue and
S1: a narration by him. He has this mantra that he
S1: repeats again and again. Stick to the plan.
UU: Trust no one. Stick to the plan. Forbid empathy. Stick
UU: to the plan. Anticipate. Don't improvise.
S1: Which is what you say, Mel, every time you come
S1: on the show.
S2: Basically.
S3: Absolutely. Guys, hold it together.
S1: I thought that was a really interesting choice. And it's
S1: it's one that it's done so well that you don't
S1: really notice it because the story's so propulsive and the
S1: plot is really interesting until the very end and you realize, wow,
S1: I don't really remember the last time I saw a
S1: movie where every single thing I saw was just from
S1: the perspective of one character, and almost everything that was
S1: said was narration in a guy's head.
S3: Yeah, totally. He has like, it's got to be only
S3: a handful of lines spoken out loud, and they kind
S3: of drive this home because repeatedly to create the sense
S3: of movement and fleeing. He's always at check ins for airports,
S3: train stations, blah, blah, blah, and they're always speaking to him.
S3: And he is never replying. He's always just taking his
S3: passport off them. And I think it just builds up,
S3: doesn't it, that you are so in his head and
S3: that's it.
S1: Did that ever get tiring for you, Thomas?
S2: I thought it was so cool and like, it was
S2: funny how basically he obviously narrates the entire film, but
S2: also you don't. There's never really a scene with like,
S2: two other characters that aren't the killer, so it's very
S2: like it is. I mean, again, this could have been
S2: like the crippling hangover. It was like slightly claustrophobic for me,
S2: but I still really did appreciate it. And I think
S2: Fassbinder is like so watchable and so like, yeah, you're
S2: basically just like in this head. And you kind of
S2: touched on the sound design and we see it at
S2: the very start. So like, you know how the film
S2: opens at the we work and he's like about to
S2: do this assassination. And then like this is again we
S2: talked about how it's funny. This is like one of
S2: the funniest things to me. Like The Smiths being his
S2: like favorite band, which he has on like he's like
S2: killing playlist. Yeah, I.
S1: Put Nano as well, I know, which is.
S2: Weird. Yeah. And like the way the music cuts in
S2: and out there. So it goes from being like, we're
S2: hearing it like in his head, basically as this is
S2: about to take place, then it cuts into like his
S2: earphone and stuff. So it really does like you're like
S2: you're basically like almost like Being John Malkovich into the
S2: killer's head, which I thought was great. But then I.
S3: Feel like it doesn't get tiring. And the thing that
S3: saves it from getting tiring is that it is a
S3: very funny movie. And even the idea of using The
S3: Smiths as his soundtrack. This band that is so synonymous
S3: with alienation and disconnected like it's so funny that that
S3: is his band of choice.
UU: Like, do you hear me when you say. I hoarsely cried.
UU: You want to learn? Do you see me when we pass?
UU: I have died.
S3: Even when he talks about the MacDonalds, you know he
S3: buys McDonald's every day and he says something like ten
S3: grams of protein for €1. Like, the narration is really
S3: funny because I think it's easy to see. And when
S3: we talk about it, to make it sound like it's
S3: a dark film because it's so kind of it is
S3: very cynical, kind of pared back film, but it is
S3: also very funny, and I think that stops it from
S3: being overwhelmingly grim or putting people off too much.
S2: Yeah, that's what I think. It also would be quite
S2: a good cinematic experience, because I reckon those lines would
S2: land really hard in like a packed cinema. You know,
S2: he talks about he goes to New Orleans for a
S2: job and he's like 10,000 menus, 1 or 10,000 restaurants.
S2: One menu.
S1: Which is like, I love New Orleans. I love the food,
S1: but it is really true. Completely. Yeah. And speaking of food,
S1: in that McDonald's scene, I kind of get the sense
S1: as to why you guys like this movie so much. Matthew.
S1: It's the mantras and Thomas for you. You sing a
S1: guy do what you do, which is get a sausage
S1: and egg McMuffin and take take the muffin. Just get.
S2: The protein to eat.
S1: The protein, you know, through the trill in terms of
S1: that sound bit like I also like I think I've
S1: said this once already about this movie, but I'd never
S1: really seen that done before in a movie. The sound
S1: designer Ren Klyce, the way that he cuts between was
S1: sort of hearing it through the headphones, like the calories,
S1: and then it just blasts like a soundtrack. And the
S1: way that sort of gets quicker and quicker those edits.
S1: And this is the bit that I clocked when I
S1: was listening to it on my headphones rather than on
S1: a television, sort of, you know, without shitty TV speakers,
S1: the sound sort of pans from left to right as well.
S1: So in some scenes, when you're hearing what he's hearing,
S1: it's just the left channel, and then otherwise hearing it
S1: on the right, it's like really just interesting small choices
S1: that help you both get the perspective from the character,
S1: whilst also getting a broader lens on what's going on
S1: as well. Even though we are just following this one
S1: character around is really, really smart and really well done.
S1: And like, you know, I thought the Smith stuff is
S1: so funny and it keeps coming back again and again
S1: and again. And I'm like, surely this guy's got other songs.
S1: I actually did a freeze frame on his Nano. When
S1: he's going through his playlists, he's got like a a
S1: yoga meditation playlist and a yoga workout playlist, as well
S1: as like on the job playlists, which is really, really good.
S3: The yoga thing actually, too, is a very funny part
S3: of this, because he's doing yoga consistently throughout it and
S3: it's a strengthening for his emotion in his brain. But again,
S3: it's just the irony of using something which is about
S3: spirituality when he spirituality is kind of a kind of
S3: killer creed. Totally, very.
S1: Very ruthless approach.
S3: Yeah. There are all kinds of moments like that. The
S3: other thing I really enjoyed too was I know watching
S3: a Fincher film, you kind of know that there's no mercy.
S3: But multiple times in this film, civilians are killed. And
S3: I found myself thinking, oh, no, he's going to show
S3: a bit of soul here and a bit of heart.
S3: He's not going to kill this very nice civilian who
S3: they are often set up as completely innocent people, completely
S3: well-meaning people, and then.
S1: Go out of their way to tell us that they
S1: have families and stuff. Yeah, but male famously, empathy is weakness, weakness, ability. Yeah.
S2: I think the thing I really liked about it as
S2: well is that the structure of the film, I think
S2: Fincher famously structured his films really well, but he plays
S2: around with it. But in this one it's quite like
S2: linear and nice, but it's basically like split up into chapters.
S2: So it's like chapter one begins at the start with
S2: the assassination, and then we kind of follow the fallout
S2: as the killer looks to kind of, I guess, clean
S2: up what happens and takes him all over the world.
S2: We go to the Dominican Republic, we go to New Orleans,
S2: and it's really good because like you basically it's almost
S2: like this. It's like Fincher has set himself up to
S2: do these set pieces that he's so good at. And
S2: it's like, this is exercise. It's like this chapter, this chapter,
S2: this chapter, and just the movie just plods along so well,
S2: very episodic.
S1: And like he has made shows, you know, he famously
S1: brought a House of Cards to Netflix and he's worked
S1: on Mindhunter. So he's very familiar going through that genre.
S1: But to create like kind of distinct episodes and distinct locations,
S1: and each of those has a new character and almost
S1: its own internal storyline, and to do it in like
S1: just under two hours is pretty exciting.
S2: Yeah. It's amazing. So well done.
S3: Yeah. And those scenes with like those standout scenes you're
S3: talking about, and there's one with Tilda Swinton. I found
S3: that they were really remarkable pieces, and the film really
S3: needed those, and they were kind of the highlights of
S3: the film for me.
S2: One thing I thought was funny and I kind of
S2: read about this somewhere else, and I didn't clock it initially,
S2: but like this whole because obviously the the narration is
S2: like such a big part of the film and like
S2: the whole idea of the unreliable narrator and like I
S2: think again, because I was just like letting it wash
S2: over me. I just took everything he said as like, oh,
S2: this is narrator's just like telling us what's what. But
S2: then I read like a review about it that talked about, well,
S2: he's actually not the most truthful narrator, and he does
S2: like make a lot of mistakes and some of the
S2: stuff he says is like, untrue. And I get then like,
S2: having read that, maybe I want to revisit the film
S2: now and be like, now that I know that this guy,
S2: I'm not just like taking everything he says as truth,
S2: like different experience.
S1: I think also what the movie does quite well is
S1: we see him unravel throughout the like the way that
S1: the plot progresses, like at the start, we're convinced that
S1: he is so precise, so perfect, so. Like his method
S1: is amazing. The way he assembles his rifle Disassembles his rifle.
S1: One of the really funny bit in that process when
S1: he's about to do that first assassination and he's in
S1: the we work. As you guys have mentioned, he uses
S1: the standing desk to like, raise up the gun. I'm like,
S1: that is so funny. Like standing desks as a concept
S1: are hilarious. And for Fincher to be like, I'm going to, like,
S1: turn them into a weapon of like, murder is pretty,
S1: pretty cool. And then as as this story kind of
S1: goes on, you see him repeat his mantras about never improvise,
S1: never do this. But there's this uncertainty that starts to
S1: creep in as he, you know, we hear him say,
S1: never improvise as he's like in a Home Depot, buying
S1: a bunch of random shit to do an improvised sort
S1: of a job. And and you realize that this guy
S1: maybe isn't quite as good as we thought he was.
S1: He's realizing he's not quite as good. The unreliability kicks
S1: in as quite, quite a lot of like, I think,
S1: complexity to the story. Yeah, I.
S3: Agree, I got the sense that he was trying to
S3: convince himself that those are the mantras that he could
S3: live by and should live by, but was always falling short.
S3: There's also another really brilliant moment talking about the standing
S3: desk when he's wearing kind of some kind of Fitbit watch,
S3: and he's monitoring his heart rate because he thinks it
S3: needs to be below 60 to have the perfect kill.
S3: So there are all kinds of moments of where he's
S3: seeking control. I think in this kind of game that
S3: he really can't control.
S1: Absolutely. I want to talk a bit about some of
S1: the different readings around this movie, and I think to
S1: do so, probably we need to wade into spoiler territory
S1: a bit. So I think, you know, if you haven't
S1: seen the movie, hit pause in the podcast, go watch
S1: the movie. It's on Netflix. You can do it. Oh, otherwise,
S1: you know, if you want to skip ahead, we'll probably
S1: be about five minutes on this bit. Scrub through. Don't
S1: yell at us if you get bored. We've warned you
S1: about it. So there are a few different, I guess,
S1: analyses to this film in various reviews. There's one that
S1: seems to be like kind of getting the most traction.
S1: It's this idea that the story of the killer is
S1: a bit of a metaphor for Finch's own career, or
S1: the idea of directors generally. Right? The idea of this
S1: mercenary filmmaker who is hired to work on everything from
S1: film to TV to music videos to ads for giant
S1: companies which, like Fincher famously, has done brands like The
S1: Gap and Nike. There are these lines at the start
S1: of The Killer in particular, where Fassbender's explaining to us
S1: his lack of ideology. He's like, you know, if you're
S1: trying to hire me for a job and you can
S1: afford to pay me, you don't have to convince me
S1: about ideology or like your worldview. I'll just do the
S1: job and I'll get the money. And I think, you know,
S1: it's quite possible that Fincher is having a bit of
S1: fun with his own life and career there. He's also
S1: himself extremely meticulous in the way that he makes movies,
S1: not just in the way, as you mentioned, Mel, the
S1: way he sort of frames and edits and sequences shots,
S1: but he's known for doing hundreds of takes on his films,
S1: like that opening scene in The Social Network with Rooney
S1: Mara and Jesse Eisenberg, which is just like two kids
S1: in a pub having a breakup. There are probably 94
S1: takes or something like that. And Jake Gyllenhaal has talked
S1: about on Zodiac, the horrific experience he had filming takes
S1: hundreds and hundreds of times. So we're talking about a
S1: director who is very meticulous, who has these mantras, who
S1: just has this process. He follows making a movie about
S1: a hired gun who was following a lot of interesting
S1: specific processes as well. You guys think about that sort
S1: of rate.
S2: Yeah. I mean, well, he obviously is a control freak
S2: and this is about a control freak. I think he
S2: did a Q&A because he's been doing like most of
S2: the press, because this is like falling in the the
S2: kind of strike window which is over now. But I
S2: think he's specifically said, oh, no, like, this is not
S2: me navel gazing, but like I really think it is.
S1: I mean, every director and writer says that. And it's
S1: like even when they're literally like.
S2: Yeah, like, I mean, you kind of have to say
S2: it's weirder. I think if you come in and be like, yeah,
S2: this is yeah.
S1: This is about me, man.
S2: Yeah. But yeah, like I do think it is, it
S2: is pretty clear. And I guess especially when you are
S2: like when you are the director of a film that
S2: most people know, I just have a vague idea of
S2: how film works. But like, there's so the director is
S2: like the trickle down effect of, like, if something goes wrong,
S2: the amount of people that can be affected by that.
S2: And that's very much what happens in this film, like
S2: a single mistake has such a domino effect where, like,
S2: all these things unravel. And I think that's like a
S2: very much reflected in how the filmmaking process goes.
S3: Yeah. I don't think this film is any more autobiographical
S3: than any of his others. Like he's always interested in
S3: people who feel disaffected from their lives and feel like
S3: they are cogs in the machine. You know, I think
S3: the character in this says something like, I serve no God,
S3: I serve no country. And that is a is a
S3: motto that could apply to so many of the characters
S3: in his films. And I think he probably Fincher has
S3: a really dark worldview. And yeah, I guess you could
S3: read it into this film, but I also think you
S3: could probably read it into Fight Club, into Zodiac, into
S3: a lot of his other films about men who don't
S3: really know what their point is and what they're serving.
S2: Fincher also does dress a lot like the killer, though, right?
S1: Yeah. We haven't talked about. To kill his fit, which
S1: is extraordinary. Like this bit early on in the movie,
S1: where he describes his camouflage as like a German tourist
S1: because he's like, no one in Paris wants to talk
S1: to German. There's a lot of very funny memes about, like,
S1: where to get the bucket hat and the glasses.
S2: Yeah, the cocky, but I think, I mean, Finch is
S2: like Finch's looks are normally pretty. Like he could just
S2: blend in. Yeah.
S1: Look, I think I think.
S2: I could see him eating a single egg.
S1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's why. I mean, I agree
S1: with you, Matt. I don't think this is like a
S1: deviation or like, radically new ideas in terms of finches
S1: or thing and in fact, like the way the killer
S1: monologues and talks about that kind of like, slogan style
S1: critiques of capitalism is very like Fight Club, right? Which
S1: is more than 20 years old now. But I feel
S1: like there's maybe a little bit more of himself and
S1: his own experiences in this than we've seen in other films.
S1: This occurred to me on the first viewing, but it
S1: became even more obvious to me on my second viewing
S1: that I think there is like another layer to this movie,
S1: and Mel's already laughing, because this is what I try
S1: to shoehorn into, like, every film, basically. But there's just
S1: one too many deliberate references to certain things going on.
S1: So can I can I lay out my take for
S1: you guys on this?
S3: I love it, I just feel, I hope everyone's back
S3: who was who really wanted to avoid the spoilers. I
S3: hope they're back for this.
S1: I think like we talked about the we work a
S1: bit at the start, right? And we work is synonymous
S1: with this idea of venture capitalism and startup culture. And,
S1: you know, it is a home for gig workers alienated
S1: from traditional businesses trying to create something in this disconnected, alienated,
S1: complicated world that is like the opening basically set up
S1: of the movie. But then we talk about a bunch
S1: of other giant companies very deliberately, as you mentioned, McDonald's.
S1: We have a whole thing to do with Amazon as well.
S1: Like there is a point in which he uses Amazon
S1: to help get this product that he needs to to
S1: break into a building and like basically confront someone. And
S1: he himself, like, is described as a subcontractor, right? Like
S1: he is a gig worker who was relying on these
S1: kind of tools of current American corporate structures to execute
S1: his job. He's working on behalf of powerful, shadowy figures.
S1: He doesn't really understand. He thinks he's in control. But
S1: as the movie goes on, he realizes he isn't. At
S1: the start of the film, he talks about the world
S1: being divided into the few and the many and says,
S1: no matter what you do, be part of the few.
S1: But as the film progresses, we see him kill a
S1: series of people who are basically avatars of himself, other
S1: gig workers in the kind of assassin underground world, and
S1: each time he does, he realizes more and more that
S1: they're basically just like him. And I think that culminates
S1: in him realizing that he no longer wants to participate
S1: in that structure. And the movie ends with him literally saying,
S1: I'm now part of the many, not the few. And
S1: I think that is a pretty sharp analysis. Or I guess,
S1: Fincher trying to take a swing at how. Even though
S1: we've always been like this and these ideas have been
S1: there since Fight Club, we are now even more like alienated,
S1: disconnected than ever. Most of us who feel angry about
S1: the state of the world are taking it out on
S1: people at our same level, rather than the people at
S1: the top. And I don't think I don't think this
S1: is like Fincher being like, I'm trying to make a
S1: movie about this stuff. I think he's just found interesting
S1: ways in this film to take some swings at the
S1: way the economic structures operate in America right now.
S3: So did you. That was a great take. Actually, I
S3: think we can all.
S2: Well, it really makes me like, think twice now about
S2: the UberEats guy that delivered my meal that mid.
S3: When you were hung over.
S2: I broke where a half a heart is it, man? Like,
S2: how hard is it? You come here every week.
S1: I mean, even in being on the moped, it's like
S1: you know who's on mopeds most of the time in
S1: our cities these days.
S2: Hot Italians.
S1: Or Uber Eats delivery drivers, you.
S5: Know.
S3: Okay, wait. So I have you. Did you find this
S3: a narrative of redemption or futility to speak? To your point? Yeah,
S3: a little bit of.
S1: Both, to be honest. And I actually think the end
S1: is maybe the weakest bit of the movie.
S2: A little bit hopeful. Yeah. It's a bit.
S1: Just like a little bit unclear. Like, I think there's
S1: a lot of stuff that is super sharp and it's
S1: super intentional. And I think at the end it's a
S1: bit like, why did he not make that choice? And
S1: then why has it just ended with like, it's optimistic
S1: but confusing. That's my ride on the end. So I
S1: don't know. I'm not trying to suggest that there's a
S1: whole big thesis that he delivers at the end, because
S1: I just not quite convinced that that is the case.
S1: And I think it's unfair to sort of hold him
S1: to a standard that I don't think he's trying to
S1: go for. I think it's more in the the kind
S1: of middle part of the movie is where I think
S1: a lot of this stuff comes up. The subtext arises
S1: for me.
S3: Yeah, I think I probably don't see Fincher as having
S3: such a political message in this film. Like, I think
S3: maybe he thinks it's all bullshit. And that is kind
S3: of where I saw the film as ending, not kind
S3: of a not a real call to action. I know
S3: you're not saying it was a call to action, but
S3: I feel it's less a takedown of the man and
S3: just what matters. Nothing matters like that is how I
S3: read it.
S1: The, um, the reason why I think I'm sort of
S1: pushing myself to this position. Because I hear you. Because
S1: I think generally you watch Fincher movies and the take
S1: on him, he's like this Gen-X nihilist who's very influenced
S1: by the kind of Seattle grunge world and like this
S1: idea of just the corporations one. And we've got to
S1: make what we've got to make. And I think that
S1: is the overwhelming bulk of his films, the one movie
S1: that is not like that, that has a lot of
S1: heart and sentimentality and politics.
S5: Seven Benjamin Button No.
S1: Is the one no one's seen Mank, right? Which no
S1: one is saying, which is a Gary Oldman and Amanda Seyfried.
S1: It's it's a really good movie, and it is about
S1: Herman Mankiewicz, who's the guy who wrote Citizen Kane. Heard
S1: of it. Very big movie, Orson Welles. That movie is
S1: obviously extremely political in and of itself, about powerful billionaire
S1: industrialist media barons in the way that they kind of
S1: control America. And this movie goes into the politics of that.
S1: But it also has like a significant storyline that has
S1: to do with the socialist writer Upton Sinclair and his
S1: socialist campaign for governor of California in the 1930. And
S1: I'm like, you're not just putting that stuff in a
S1: film for the sake of it. You're doing it because
S1: you are trying to either remind people of a time
S1: where Hollywood and America debated these kinds of ideas and
S1: how distinct that is, and almost if you if you
S1: go from like Mank to this and these are the
S1: two movies that are back to back, you have Fincher
S1: talking about a world that used to exist that was
S1: a bit more hopeful, a bit more us working together
S1: as actors, as writers. There's stuff about Hollywood strikes going
S1: on when there was power to organize through art or
S1: through society against the people that controlled it. You have
S1: that and you follow that up with the killer, which
S1: is super cynical. Basically, 100 years on from the Mank story,
S1: we're fucked. We're all turning against each other. We have
S1: no power. We works. Destroyed society, Amazon destroyed society. McDonald's
S1: is destroying society. So I think there is some coherence
S1: in his ideology across those films.
S3: Yeah, I think that's actually quite true. And I think
S3: you're right about Mank having that kind of that kind
S3: of ambition. And yeah, I guess I hadn't thought of
S3: seeing the killer in direct light of Mank. But yeah,
S3: when you read it like that, that does make sense.
S3: Mank I wasn't talking about it earlier. It's such an
S3: underrated film. I think a lot of people were put
S3: off by the black and white of it, like Mank.
S2: Very exciting. I must have been. I haven't seen it.
S5: Citizen.
S3: Kane, I think the way people thought, but it is
S3: so funny. I actually think it's one of Fincher's funniest films, and.
S1: Fincher is a funny guy for a guy who is
S1: seen as like a dark out of circular stuff, he's
S1: very funny.
S2: It's such a it's so funny looking at his filmography, though,
S2: because it's like he goes through waves. Like obviously pre
S2: Mank was Gone Girl, which is like, yeah, kind of like,
S2: you know, also a great film, but like more of
S2: a big studio film like Ben Affleck. It's based on
S2: a bestselling book. And then within that same period you
S2: have Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, which again, similar kind
S2: of source material. Curious case of Benjamin Button like. It's
S2: he really kind of like, flutters between like, this is
S2: everything that's consuming me right now. And here's a film
S2: that reflects it. And then I guess, like, here's another
S2: film I was thinking of making based on a best
S2: selling book.
S1: We are getting into what I want to talk about next,
S1: which is just the general Fincher of it all. But
S1: the one thing I just wanted to say on On
S1: the Killer, that only I just was reminded of now
S1: when I spoke to Steven Soderbergh earlier in the year.
S1: So Steven Soderbergh does this thing every year where he
S1: lists everything he's watched. And at the end of last year,
S1: he had the killer like 5 or 6 times. And
S1: I asked him, I'm like, is this the unreleased Fincher film?
S1: And he's like, yes. And I'm like, what's going on there?
S1: And he's like, well, Fincher and I like very close friends,
S1: and we give each other notes on movies a lot.
S1: So basically David's been showing me cuts of this film,
S1: and then I'll give him notes, and I find that
S1: really fascinating. Interesting. These are two amazing directors who I
S1: think they're similar in ways. They make these very stylish,
S1: interesting movies that very rarely have obvious politics in them.
S1: But then when you drill down, there is a bit
S1: about the world and how it all works there. So
S1: I love the idea of Soderbergh kind of secretly being
S1: involved in putting this together. That is.
S2: Very cool. I love that he keeps like a list
S2: as well. Yeah, yeah. What else was on there? Do
S2: you remember.
S1: We talked about like Below Deck. He loves Below Deck,
S1: like the reality show. It's a really good list. But yeah,
S1: I wanted to ask you maybe the first obvious question
S1: in terms of, like, David Fincher as a director, how
S1: do you think this movie fits in? Like, does it
S1: feel did it feel familiar to you straight away? You're like,
S1: I see the touchstones of David Fincher in this movie.
S1: And are there any particular previous films he's made that
S1: this one reminded you guys of?
S3: Yeah, to me, it was quite recognizably Fincher, but not
S3: in in a bad way. I love his style, and
S3: it's not as kind of it is. Well, it's kind
S3: of this very distinct style. It's not an over-the-top style
S3: in the way of Baz Luhrmann. Like, I think when
S3: you look at his filmography and you were just kind
S3: of going through it. Thomas like you, it's hard sometimes
S3: to think that the guy who did Benjamin Button also
S3: did this film, like very different films. But yeah, it
S3: kind of The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, I guess
S3: that reminded me of Zodiac, of course. Seven. I mean,
S3: even elements of Gone Girl in a I think it's
S3: that kind of it's both the stylistic way, the actual
S3: construction of really careful shots and scenes, but also the
S3: way that his characters are kind of lost in the
S3: world and that profound sense of cynicism about the world.
S3: And I will say, like, for all the talk of Fincher,
S3: kind of he's he's meticulousness on set. He does collaborate
S3: with the same people again and again and again. And
S3: I think the sound designer for The Killer is one
S3: that he has used consistently. So sometimes I think when
S3: people have those constant collaborators, they just get better and
S3: better at working together.
S1: I mean, we should, in that vein, mention Trent Reznor
S1: and Atticus Ross, Nine Inch Nails, who have been doing
S1: Fincher soundtracks, I think, since The Social Network and, you know,
S1: Gone Girl and Dragon Tattoo. There is a Nine Inch
S1: Nails reference in this movie. Did you guys catch it
S1: when he the assassin, the killer uses a nail gun
S1: to kill someone? He says in his head, you know,
S1: 45 year old man X number of kilos, three Nine
S1: Inch Nails, like he's got seven minutes to live or.
S5: Something like that.
S2: And he dies in like a minute. Yeah, yeah, I
S2: think it definitely felt recognizably Fincher. He's just. Yeah. I mean,
S2: Mel just said it way more eloquently, but he's just
S2: got such a specific mood to his films. Like, you
S2: watch a film and you're like, even like, I remember
S2: there's a really specific scene in Gone Girl when they
S2: do the press conference after Ben Affleck's wife has gone missing,
S2: and the way it's lit is just so like, it
S2: feels like House of cards. It feels like this movie.
S2: He just he's so good at creating these kind of, like, unnerving, like,
S2: scenarios and scenes. I mean, we haven't really spoken that
S2: much about Fight Club. I feel like Fight Club. I
S2: know her eyes are rolling in her head. The first
S2: rule of Fight Club is that Mel hates it. I
S2: think it's the movie itself has become like almost like
S2: a parody or a punch line for a certain type
S2: of particularly certain type of young man. And you know,
S2: that all makes sense. But it's still an interesting film,
S2: and I still think there is a lot of like
S2: Fight Club DNA in this, and, you know, Tyler Durden
S2: and that whole character and everything he stood for has
S2: become so manipulated. But there is a lot of that,
S2: like same soul and messaging I think has been transplanted
S2: to this film.
S1: I agree, and I think sort of Fight Club, it's
S1: sort of unfair. It's like American Psycho, right? Where the
S1: people making these books or movies knew what they were critiquing.
S1: And unfortunately, a lot of the audience just missed that
S1: and has taken like the text at face value and
S1: missed the subtext. And I almost wonder whether that could
S1: happen with the killer as well, where a whole bunch
S1: of like, Reddit bros just start like tattooing his mantra
S1: on themselves and being like, empathy is weakness, right? And
S1: not understanding that that's all deconstructed by the end of
S1: the film.
S3: And in defense of me being the complicated person that
S3: I am, who will shock you? My club is my
S3: favorite Fincher film by far. I love it.
S5: I hate women. Up. I went.
S3: Through a phase of watching American Psycho Fight Club, a
S3: kind of, oh, you.
S1: Do hate women, okay.
S3: No, but I mean, as we were just saying, obviously
S3: read it as, like a critique and a satire and like,
S3: the fact that men exist who are like that in
S3: the world is probably, you know, something we should investigate
S3: and be interested in.
S5: Yeah. Yeah.
S3: I think Fight Club is so good, I watch it. Maybe,
S3: maybe that's my once a year watch. Really? Yeah. Mean,
S3: I was talking about Raging Bull the other day in
S3: Taxi Driver two, and I've got a bit of a
S3: genre there. But yeah, I think in my head, you
S3: know that line where Edward Norton's character like, really bashes
S3: someone and he's like bloody and bleeding and Brad Pitt's like,
S3: why do you do that? And he said, I felt
S3: like destroying something beautiful. I think that once a day.
S2: As you edit my.
S5: Column, yes, I edit your column.
S1: So if I clubbed your favorite Fincher, that's like a
S1: good a good pick, like I sideways one. But I
S1: back it, I back it, I feel.
S3: Like it's kind of it's a bit obvious, maybe, but
S3: I don't know something.
S5: About it at all. Yeah, yeah.
S3: And the soundtrack to I will say yeah.
S1: When, Where is my mind comes on. Yeah. It's pretty sick. Thomas,
S1: do you have a favorite Fincher?
S2: I do, it's probably I loved seven like. And I
S2: think we can all agree seeing Guinness head in the box.
S5: It's like a.
S2: Pretty special moment in film. But I love The Social Network.
S2: I think it came at a time when I was
S2: like going through a big film phase. I was like,
S2: I'm going to be a film guy, and it's like,
S2: it's a very talky film, which I love. The script
S2: is amazing. It was a story that was so reflective
S2: of our time because we all grew up on Facebook,
S2: and so I just thought it like brought together so much.
S2: And the performances are amazing. Like, Timberlake is great. Yeah,
S2: the Winklevoss twins and Jesse Eisenberg being like, fool, Jesse Eisenberg.
S2: So yeah, The Social Network, I think like plucked a
S2: lot of my favorite things and like put them in
S2: one film. So that's one of my favorite.
S3: And how did being a film guy go?
S5: Here was a short phase.
S2: And then I became a guy, obviously for a bit.
S5: Yeah, I.
S1: Love The Social Network. I think it's one of the
S1: best movies, like ever. Honestly, I think it's in that conversation.
S1: It's my number two, though. My favorite Fincher film is Zodiac. Yes.
S1: Which I think is also like a little bit underrated. Like,
S1: I think film bro's like really go for this movie,
S1: but I think it came out in 2007. It didn't
S1: have a huge box office, and that was the year
S1: where the Oscars will I completely dominated by there Will
S1: Be Blood and No Country for Old Men Like This.
S1: Just Zodiac didn't quite get the reception that it deserves.
S1: So you think? Look at its cost. Jake Gyllenhaal, Mark Ruffalo,
S1: Robert Downey Jr, Anthony Edwards, Brian Cox, Chloe Sevigny, John
S1: Carroll Lynch, Dermot Mulroney like, there's a lot of stuff
S1: going on in this movie. It is about the Zodiac Killer,
S1: the murders in San Francisco in the late 1960s, in
S1: the 1970s. It is a journalism movie. It is about
S1: journalists trying to solve the crime. It is a police procedural.
S1: It is about the kind of, you know, influence of
S1: the hippie movement and the death of the hippie movement
S1: and how America went from those ideas to a much
S1: more scared, insular sense of itself, partly egged on, by
S1: the way that media and and films were being constructed
S1: in response to the Zodiac Killer. It's also like an
S1: incredible whodunit as you try to figure out the clues
S1: and piece it all together. It's a really astonishingly well-made film,
S1: I think.
S5: Yeah, I think.
S3: It is so good, and I'll throw in another one.
S3: Gone girl as well, I think is fantastic. And Ben
S3: Affleck's character in that is just an incredible oh yeah, true.
S5: That was her first no.
S2: Love for Panic Room, then Jodie Foster. Panic room is good.
S1: Panic room is good. It's probably not in the top
S1: five for me. Yeah, I.
S2: Watched it a lot growing up.
S3: And it's maybe worth noting, too, that given we were
S3: talking about all the David's making prestige TV last week,
S3: that David Fincher was one of the first kind of
S3: big name directors to cross over into TV making with
S3: House of cards.
S2: Yeah, he's basically responsible for Netflix.
S5: Yeah, yeah, totally.
S3: And I like to I like per season of House
S3: of cards really good. I think it kind of lost
S3: its way, but yeah, also a great TV series.
S1: He was briefly attached to this 20,000 Leagues Under the
S1: Sea adaptation. So Fincher's like famously been attached to heaps
S1: of stuff that just never come through. I think it
S1: was going to adapt, like the Bourdain book, and that
S1: ended up becoming like either Burnt or Chef, like one
S1: of those weird movies, terrible movies. Yeah, I think.
S2: If I was a famous director, I would take that approach.
S2: I would just say like, it's like shotgunning stuff. Yeah,
S2: I would attach.
S5: Myself to loads of projects, so like.
S2: No one else could get it and be like, oh,
S2: Thomas Mitchell is attached to like the you know.
S1: That's really funny. Mel, you and I were talking before
S1: about how Fincher's like non film TV work is also
S1: pretty astonishing. Like the ads and the music videos.
S3: Oh he's gap ads around 2014. Have you seen any
S3: of them? They are incredible works of art and I
S3: feel sad that we don't have that advertising anymore. There's
S3: like one particular gap ad that I love where there's
S3: a woman kind of dancing in gap clothes. It's all
S3: in black and white, and there's a guy taking a
S3: shot of golf, if that's what you do with golf,
S3: a shot of golf.
S5: I guess. You take a shot. Yeah. He's at a.
S3: Driving range, just like paying her no attention. And it's
S3: so funny. And it's kind of the humor we're talking
S3: about from his films are so obvious in these ads
S3: where he's kind of making fun of it all at
S3: the same time, as he's obviously participating in a.
S5: Lot of money from it as well.
S1: Yeah. And music video wise, he's responsible for George Michael's
S1: Freedom 90 with all the supermodels and Madonna's Vogue, which
S1: is pretty iconic, so very eclectic. Like. List of achievements.
S2: Freedom nine.
S1: Great film clip, great song. Your guy.
S2: Yeah I know you all. It goes all right.
S1: Let's pivot to the curse.
S6: There's no such thing as a perfect city. But to me,
S6: this city is as close as it comes. That's why
S6: we're proud to call Espanola my home.
S7: Oh, shit.
S6: Our home.
S8: All right, you got it. It's okay.
S6: This isn't your typical home flipping show. My homes are
S6: reflecting the local community and we're husband and wife. This
S6: is care for them. So what could go wrong?
S8: Let's grab a quick shot of you. Thomas, you.
S1: Want to talk us through, give us a bit of
S1: a refresh on Nathan Fielder and tell us what the
S1: curse is all about.
S2: Yeah, so Nathan Fielder is. I mean, for those unfamiliar,
S2: he's a very strange comedic talent. That's really like. I
S2: start making a lot of waves lately. He's first kind
S2: of big project was Nathan for you, which I think
S2: you both watched. Yeah, I love Nathan. He basically plays
S2: like a fictionalized, weird version of himself that uses his
S2: background in business to kind of help these ailing companies
S2: with absolutely batshit insane ideas that are never going to work.
S2: And it very much is the introduction of the Nathan
S2: Fielder method, where it's like, is this real? Like is
S2: what I'm seeing actually happening at these people, you know,
S2: are they not in on it? And that is kind
S2: of like the vortex you get trapped in, but it
S2: makes for such uncomfortable cringe viewing. But you can't look away.
S2: And that's the kind of come the fields are calling card.
S2: We have the next iteration of that last year with
S2: The Rehearsal, which was available to screen here on binge.
S2: And basically the rehearsal was a similar concept. It was
S2: Nathan Fielder, kind of like taking these ordinary subjects that
S2: had issues in their life, whether it was, you know,
S2: they'd lied to some of their friends about their university
S2: degree or they were unsure if they wanted to have kids,
S2: and he would set up like a full wide scale
S2: rehearsal using actors in order for people to kind of, like,
S2: prep themselves to tackle this moment in their lives. And again,
S2: it really put you in this mindspace of like, is
S2: this real? Are these real subjects actually being used by
S2: Nathan Fielder? Are they in on the act?
S1: Because it's so I mean, it's like it's almost borderline
S1: like abuse in a way. So you're like, is this real?
S1: Is it not because it's so intense? Well, that's the thing.
S2: And it's like, it's not quite like a Borat thing. Well,
S2: this is mostly funny. It's like there was a lot
S2: of ethical questions, especially around the rehearsal. And I think
S2: a lot of people were unsure how to take it.
S2: You know, fielder is seen by many as like this
S2: kind of genius, like absolutely off the wall kind of guy,
S2: but others that have big question marks around his methods.
S2: And then that brings us to The Curse, which is
S2: airing here on Paramount. One episode is available now. They
S2: dropped weekly. The curse is probably more I mean, I
S2: use this with air quotes conventional for fielder, and it's
S2: not conventional at all, but it is more of a
S2: TV show. He directs it and it stars a married couple.
S2: So he plays Asher and he's married to Whitney, who
S2: played by Emma Stone. And basically they're this kind of
S2: like white savior couple who are launching a reality show
S2: called Flip Anthropology, which is like almost like a renovation
S2: reality style show. Imagine, like, you know, a couple go
S2: into a community and they plan to turn things around.
S2: And that's kind of where we find ourselves there in
S2: Espanol or in New Mexico. And they're basically going to
S2: help the town, like, regenerate itself. They're going to sell
S2: a bunch of these kind of eco homes that are
S2: totally reflective and, you know, don't use any energy, but
S2: essentially that, you know, this couple, while seeming to present
S2: as good people, are not really they have kind of
S2: nefarious intentions. And, and they basically want to use these
S2: cheap properties and flip them for a massive profit and,
S2: and basically get out of this community before they've done
S2: any good. And that's kind of where we meet them.
S2: They're accompanied by a very dodgy producer who basically will
S2: do anything to get the shot, and he's probably the
S2: best character in the show for me. His name is Doogie,
S2: played by Benny Safdie of the Safdie brothers fame, and
S2: I think Benny.
S1: Safdie is also like a producer or co-writer as well.
S2: Yeah. So he's he's part of the creative team of
S2: this show, and basically the first episode sets up that
S2: they're in this community, they're there to do good. And
S2: then during this altercation with a young girl in a
S2: car park where Asha, which is played by Nathan Fielder,
S2: his character, you know, gives her $100 in this kind
S2: of like show of faith that be caught on camera
S2: to make himself look good. He then rescinds the offer,
S2: takes the money back, and then she puts a curse
S2: on him. And then from there, it kind of all
S2: unfolds the show.
S1: What do you start with this show? It's like there's
S1: heaps going on and it's all pretty good, I think.
S1: And I think the start of it, as you described,
S1: it's like the satire of these shows that they're more
S1: popular in America than they are here, like this network
S1: that they reference HGTV. It is a real network. Yeah.
S5: Home and.
S1: Garden TV. It's. Yeah, flippers. And like, you know, this
S1: idea of these couples going into town seems to be
S1: a real thing that is going on. One of my
S1: favorite bits from that sort of side of things is
S1: they're talking about this like cafe that's coming in, that's
S1: going to like help create jobs. And, you know, they're
S1: being accused of gentrifying. So there's this conversation. And of course,
S1: when you go into the cafe and it's a cafe
S1: selling like drip filter coffee and flat whites in America,
S1: it is run by a white Australian woman.
S5: Which is.
S1: Astonishing. Like, I love that. And that comes up a
S1: couple of times. I found that whole satire bit really,
S1: really good, and it reminded me of that show unreal,
S1: which was a similar sort of dark satire on dating
S1: reality shows. But then the show, like, changes gears, like, like,
S1: like really hard and becomes something completely else.
S3: Yeah. Agree the second half of the first episode and
S3: I won't give too much away. Is such an unexpected
S3: tone shift. Do you think you know where you're going
S3: with this? And you think you've kind of got the genre?
S3: And then I guess, as is Nathan Fielder's want, he
S3: kind of shifts the gear and that second half is
S3: just wacky. I was watching it in the office at
S3: my desk, actually, and then suddenly I felt, maybe this
S3: is not an appropriate office. Watching this.
S5: Watching several.
S2: Prosthetic.
S5: Penises.
S3: Yeah, yeah, I've been blacklisted at work, but I've read
S3: a few reviews of this beforehand, and maybe we should
S3: check in as we keep watching it. And it was like,
S3: people will love this or loathe this, but in that
S3: first episode is I loved it and I think, I
S3: do think it will be pretty generally loved.
S5: I think it's a.
S1: Very well-made show. I think there are some people seem
S1: to be finding it hard to watch, like a lot
S1: of field is stuff, because it's a bit cringe, I guess.
S1: And I think what's interesting about this show is we
S1: haven't talked about Emma Stone much yet. She's quite good
S1: in it. I think if she wasn't in it, I
S1: would almost think this is like the Rehearsal or Nathan
S1: for you, that it's not a scripted show, that this
S1: is just like him doing a reality show and satirizing it.
S1: But obviously her involvement makes it more clear that this
S1: is like a drama and that adds a whole layer.
S5: To it as well. And I agree.
S3: And I think they are still playing with the idea
S3: of whether it's scripted or not, because a lot of
S3: the kind of other actors in it are supporting.
S5: So many of these characters. You're like, can't be actors. Yeah,
S5: you're not actors.
S3: And even Nathan Fielder kind of plays Nathan Fielder, really.
S3: So I think even though Emma Stone's got her lines,
S3: they're still kind of questioning what is fake and what
S3: is real in this, which I think at the heart,
S3: this is like a good extension of what he's been doing,
S3: because to me, while it does have this interesting like
S3: white savior complex and like environmental kind of do good
S3: ism and all of that and it's hard. It's kind
S3: of to me about how TV and documentaries are made,
S3: which is kind of what he has explored in his
S3: last two works as well. He's just kind of doing
S3: it in a slightly different form.
S2: Yeah, it really does start out as you think you
S2: have an idea of what they're kind of satirizing. And
S2: then just like he fully like opens up and it
S2: just takes on everything. I thought it was hilarious, like
S2: very way funnier than I thought it was going to
S2: be as well. I do understand why some people are like,
S2: this is way too fucking weird for me. But yeah,
S2: I definitely I reckon people should stick with this one
S2: because it's probably one of the most unique shows on TV,
S2: I think.
S1: So I was thinking about our our conversation last week
S1: about prestige TV and what it is. And one of
S1: the things we discussed that Mel shut it down, but
S1: I think everyone else agreed on was this idea that,
S1: you know, shows that do something new or like push
S1: the medium forward. And I think a lot of fielder
S1: shows have done that. This one certainly does that to me.
S1: And I think that's great. Like, it's cool to get
S1: some smart people together to get a really interesting and
S1: amazing actress who's an Oscar winner, who is in the
S1: conversation for the Oscars again for her role in Poor
S1: Things and You, Yorgos Lanthimos film that's coming out soon,
S1: and just do something completely insane with it.
S5: So you've actually.
S3: Come round to my point of view that prestige TV
S3: is not dead.
S5: I mean, fair, yeah.
S1: I guess I have I'm.
S5: Like, well, we.
S1: Called it dead. And then now we're back with a
S1: great show.
S5: The week after.
S1: Maybe they heard, maybe they heard, you.
S5: Know.
S3: Just like Nathan Fielder and Emma Stone, like, because part
S3: of this is as well as all this other stuff
S3: we're talking about, their their marriage and their dynamic, I
S3: think is kind of at the heart of this show
S3: as well. And they are so good together. I saw
S3: a Guardian review called Emma Stone the greatest mouth actor
S3: of our generation, and what she does with her face.
S3: It's like it's worth watching just for Emma Stone, even
S3: if you kind of find the rest of it too kooky.
S2: It's so funny that you saw that Guardian article, whereas
S2: I read a news article that's headline was like Oscar
S2: winners wacky sex scene. I was so shocked that news.com.au
S2: covering love you guys.
S5: Yeah yeah.
S2: Yeah. And then I was like that's weird. Oh okay.
S2: It's yeah, it's this scene.
S1: All right. Time for our Impress Your Friends segment where
S1: we share a bit of pop culture that caught our
S1: eye this week. Might go first with this one treading
S1: on your territory. Well, Melanie, I've just finished reading a
S1: book called MCU Cullen The Reign of Marvel Studios. It's
S1: written by Dave Gonzalez, Gavin Edwards, and Joanna Robinson. I've
S1: been a big fan of Joanna Robinson since she used
S1: to write and podcast for Vanity Fair. She's now a
S1: great podcast at The Ringer, talking about all things kind
S1: of pop culture and awards. I feel like this is
S1: the second week in a row I've talked about Marvel,
S1: but this is not really a book. I mean, if
S1: you're a big Marvel fan, you'll probably get more out
S1: of it. But to me, this this book, which is
S1: essentially a history and a behind the scenes, it's done
S1: with lots and lots of interviews and really great storytelling
S1: of how, from Iron Man to now, this company built
S1: up the biggest thing in film in the last like
S1: couple of decades, if not ever. And as someone who
S1: is really interested in the history of Hollywood and how
S1: these stories get made and that kind of behind the
S1: scenes stuff, I found it fascinating and really gripping. It's
S1: really well written. It's really, really interesting. And I just
S1: think if you're vaguely interested in the movies and vaguely
S1: interested in how Hollywood works and where it is all going,
S1: there's conversation around consolidation that we were having last week
S1: as well, and the Disney ification of everything. It's a
S1: pretty good text and I think it is a very good.
S1: To why we are in the state we're in when
S1: it comes to films, and hoping to actually get Joyner
S1: on the podcast in the next week to talk about
S1: it a bit more, which would be really exciting.
S3: Can I put you on the spot and ask, favorite
S3: Marvel film?
S2: I also have a follow up on the spot question
S2: for oh my gosh, favorite film?
S1: I mean, I think it's Black Panther, like the first
S1: Black Panther, I think, but that was like a really
S1: good film that had like the fun action stuff. Great performances, obviously,
S1: from Michael Jordan, Chadwick Boseman and had really interesting politics
S1: compared to a lot of them.
S2: Yeah, I don't I'm not really a marvel guy. That's
S2: my favorite. Followed by Iron Man. My follow up question
S2: for you is, do you think and this may be
S2: worthy of a whole separate pod? So I read the
S2: big Jacob Elordi GQ chat yesterday, and he talked about
S2: how he read for Superman and was like, not a chance.
S2: Do you think the pendulum is almost swung the other
S2: way now? And a similar thing recently with Jeremy on White,
S2: where it's no longer cool to be attached to Marvel,
S2: even though it used to be like a career maker.
S2: And we may almost see, like all these new up
S2: and comers be like, there's not a fucking chance I'm
S2: doing a marvel movie because I don't want to. Chris
S2: Hemsworth did it when he was on the up and
S2: it like, set him up for life, but now, like,
S2: Marvel is a bit tainted.
S1: I think that's 100% the case. I think there's a
S1: few reasons behind. I think one, the shine of Marvel
S1: has worn off, and so it's not what it was like.
S1: Signing up to Marvel was a guaranteed ticket to stardom
S1: and like, lots and lots of money. And now it
S1: seems to be a ticket to a bunch of mediocre
S1: movies that a lot of people don't like. And you're
S1: locked into a system that means you can't do interesting
S1: projects that you'd really want to do.
S2: And especially if you are someone on the cusp like
S2: a Jacob Elordi, you're always saying is like part of
S2: the problem and you don't want to. It's like bad
S2: optics to be like, oh, well, now you're just becoming
S2: a marvel guy. Like, whereas, you know, you were doing
S2: cool stuff before, right?
S1: And even with directors, there was this period where, like,
S1: Marvel was signing up indie directors to do films like
S1: Black Black Panther, like Ryan Coogler, and everyone was excited
S1: by that. And they made a couple of really good ones.
S1: But now it's like, oh, you got Nia DaCosta into
S1: the Marvel ecosystem that is going to ruin her and
S1: ruin Marvel movies because there's no match there. So look,
S1: the book does touch on a lot of this stuff
S1: as well.
S2: Marvel's over, Marvel's over.
S1: Mel, what have you got?
S3: Well, I've done it for all of us. I've gone
S3: and watch the Robbie Williams documentary four parter on Netflix,
S3: directed by Joe Pearlman. First thing I have to say
S3: is he spends, like, the entire documentary in his bed,
S3: in his undies. Like that is, it is. And there
S3: are so many shots of him just in his little
S3: briefs walking around.
S2: He's always been like a he's always been a briefs. Guys.
S3: I didn't know that about.
S2: You is like, yeah. And when he's.
S3: Not in his briefs, he's in this like incredible dressing
S3: gown Gucci thing wandering around his palatial home. So that's
S3: very funny. Are you a.
S1: Brief sky Thomas? I should have asked you that.
S2: Yeah, I'm a bricks guy. Yeah. Me too.
S5: Yeah, yeah.
S3: Good. Happy for you guys. You might get a bit
S3: of inspiration from Robbie Williams undergarment game. So it's a
S3: kind of interesting framing device. They've got all this footage
S3: of him over 30 years and they kind of see
S3: in his bad. He's all cozy because he's a hermit
S3: and an insomniac, and they show him the footage and
S3: you kind of see it on the screen, and then
S3: he speaks to it from his, from his bed, you know,
S3: from his time in Take That when he was a
S3: 16 year old kind of drop out. Joining that to
S3: his solo career. It's getting a lot of comparisons to
S3: the Beckham documentary, but I think because the only person
S3: who speaks in it is Robbie Williams, that you kind
S3: of lack the perspective on him, that speaking to other
S3: people you got in the Beckham documentary. But I will
S3: say there's some incredible footage and like the highlight of
S3: it for me was seeing him and Geri Halliwell, Ginger spice.
S3: I didn't know that they were kind of a love
S3: affair for a while on their Mediterranean holiday, and all
S3: this footage that she shot of them together. So I
S3: think the footage is kind of what makes this, but
S3: you never really get past because it's only him speaking.
S3: You never really get past the sense that this is
S3: just another act of mythmaking and propagating of a certain
S3: kind of myth. But the footage from that time, and
S3: obviously just hearing Angel about 50 times is is good.
S2: Yeah, I've actually checked out a bit of this and
S2: I thought a similar thing. Firstly, there is like a
S2: sick part of me that's like one day I too
S2: would love to be in a bed, as someone showed
S2: me clips from my heyday that you've kind of fucking
S2: made at that point.
S1: Just clips of us recording this podcast.
S5: We were.
S2: So, so crazy.
S5: Young and.
S1: Handsome and funny and smart. This is great stuff. Yeah, it.
S2: Really is like the ultimate egomaniacs.
S3: You guys really like yourselves.
S5: I remember we.
S1: Talked about wearing briefs. That was pretty.
S5: Good. That was right. What a crazy.
S2: Time. But I think the one thing you do take
S2: from this is that you forget, just like how famous
S2: Robbie Williams was for a while there, he really was like,
S2: this guy sold like 1.3 million concert tickets in a
S2: day or something like that. Kind of angels, like Let
S2: me entertain you, period. When he was playing Wembley, like,
S2: my mum was obsessed with Robbie Williams, as is, like
S2: the suburban mother. Yeah, yeah. And I don't really love him,
S2: but he definitely has like had a moment and it's
S2: interesting to reflect on that.
S5: Yeah I was while.
S3: I was watching this I was thinking that I reckon
S3: we're almost too young to because I think Robbie Williams
S3: was kind of uncool when we were kind of teenagers.
S3: So maybe it is like we were winning.
S2: Was like that record was big and like, yeah, he.
S1: It was duet with.
S5: Kylie cuz.
S2: Grafana with Delta. Yeah, that was.
S1: Actually a great performance. It was his AFL Grand Final
S1: performance was.
S5: One of the best. I mean the.
S2: Guys born entertainer.
S3: And I also enjoy during that performance. I remember he
S3: played one of his new songs and he was like,
S3: sorry guys, I got to do this like.
S5: Which I thought was very funny to the fans. Yeah, yeah.
S2: Yeah, I thought it was funny in the documentary though,
S2: he says, like, oh, I want it to be riding
S2: Karma Police, but instead I'm writing Karma Chameleon.
S5: I fucking shoot for the stars.
S2: Robbie. Yes, my recommendation this week is. The Buccaneers on Apple. Okay,
S2: so let me ask you a question. Do you like Bridgerton?
S1: The answer's no.
S5: Well. I'm sorry. I'm like, scurry a little bit here. Yeah. Okay.
S5: This is more of.
S2: A safe bet. Do you like Edith Wharton?
S3: Absolutely. Anything she's written or not finished writing?
S2: I'm here for so Edith Wharton. Osmond was a Pulitzer
S2: Prize winner, and her unfinished novel was The Buccaneers. Okay.
S2: This show is based on that. And basically it's essentially
S2: is Bridgerton again. But it's really fun. And I was
S2: kind of dragged into this one by my wife. She
S2: was like, it's like a period thing. So it's a
S2: period thing. I think it's like the set in the
S2: 1870s in New York. And basically this group of friends
S2: and two sisters, they're like, you know, kind of new money.
S2: And then one of their friends gets married to, like,
S2: a rich duke from London. And then essentially they all
S2: go to London together to find, like, you know, it's
S2: basically like the melding of, like, new money and old
S2: titles to kind of create this future, like these, like
S2: strong partnerships. The main character is Nan, and she's kind
S2: of a protagonist, and she's very much of that, like,
S2: you know, I guess like Jane Austen, vintage like, doesn't
S2: want to buy into this system. Is happy on her own.
S2: But yeah, it's really fun. Very funny. You know, friendship matters.
S2: All that type of stuff. Can I ask you a question?
S1: So one of the things I did like about Bridgerton
S1: was how they use, like, contemporary pop songs in like,
S1: the way they played music and stuff. Is this, like,
S1: fun like that?
S2: I'm glad you asked.
S5: Yes it is. Oh, right.
S2: In fact, I'm pretty sure Taylor recorded like a special
S2: song for the trailer. Wow. Olivia Rodrigo is also on
S2: the soundtrack, so it very much is that same brand.
S2: They know what they're doing here, but I really enjoyed it.
S2: I think great escapism.
S1: That's interesting because there is another show set in New
S1: York in like the 1870s about socialites interacting that I
S1: am watching. It's called The Gilded Age on HBO. That's
S1: like a fun, similar film. Julian Fellowes yeah, Julian Fellowes
S1: and stars Carrie Coon and Christine Baranski, who I really,
S1: really like. It's fun. But yeah, I think you've convinced
S1: me on the Buccaneers.
S5: I'll give it a go.
S3: And have you seen Dickinson? Because it's getting a lot
S3: of comparisons to Dickinson, so that might be next on
S3: your list.
S2: Perfect. I'll just make my way through all the adaptation classics.
S5: Film guy well, great. I feel like.
S1: Between the three of us, there's quite a few bits
S1: to watch, to read, to listen to, to enjoy. Thomas
S1: I'll see at the arches in a couple of hours.
S2: Perfect. Anticipate. Don't improvise.
S1: Thanks so much, Milton. Have fun. This episode of The
S1: Drop was produced by Kai Wong. If you enjoyed listening
S1: to today's episode of The Drop, make sure to follow
S1: us in your favorite podcast app. Leave us a review
S1: or better yet, share the episode with a friend. I'm
S1: Osman Farooqui. See you next week.