1 00:00:07,770 --> 00:00:10,770 S1: Hey, I'm Usman Farooqi and this is the drop a 2 00:00:10,770 --> 00:00:13,230 S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, 3 00:00:13,230 --> 00:00:15,300 S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of 4 00:00:15,300 --> 00:00:18,750 S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell. What's 5 00:00:18,750 --> 00:00:19,829 S1: up King? How are you doing? 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:21,960 S2: I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good. Excited for this one. 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:22,860 S2: How are you today? 8 00:00:23,010 --> 00:00:24,630 S1: I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good. This is nice of 9 00:00:24,630 --> 00:00:27,479 S1: you to ask. You don't often ask me how I'm doing. Well, 10 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:28,470 S1: I know you put this on me. 11 00:00:28,470 --> 00:00:30,600 S2: Now, so? So I actually have to. 12 00:00:31,170 --> 00:00:33,570 S1: I'm actually, um. I was laughing before we sat down 13 00:00:33,570 --> 00:00:35,610 S1: to record, because I don't know if you've seen those 14 00:00:35,610 --> 00:00:38,790 S1: as viral tweet going around where people are just like, 15 00:00:38,790 --> 00:00:42,390 S1: share your favorite scene from girls, the HBO show. And 16 00:00:42,390 --> 00:00:45,930 S1: I just rewatched the clip of Marnie singing Stronger by 17 00:00:45,930 --> 00:00:49,379 S1: Kanye West at the, uh. It's so funny, man. It's 18 00:00:49,380 --> 00:00:51,510 S1: one of the funniest things that has been put to 19 00:00:51,510 --> 00:00:53,040 S1: air in the past decade. 20 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,180 S2: That was big. Um, Kendall to the OG 100%. 21 00:00:57,180 --> 00:00:59,520 S1: That's a very, very, very good comparison is. 22 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,010 S2: Yeah, I've seen lots of, um, lots of girls chat, obviously, 23 00:01:02,010 --> 00:01:04,259 S2: because it's a was it like ten years or something? 24 00:01:04,290 --> 00:01:05,970 S2: 12 years, some kind of anniversary? 25 00:01:05,970 --> 00:01:08,940 S1: Yeah. Just like a lot of people have rediscovered the show, 26 00:01:08,940 --> 00:01:10,440 S1: I think which is which is kind of cool. And 27 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,840 S1: there's a whole Lena Dunham discourse, right? Like people like 28 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:14,819 S1: we were too mean to her. And she's actually really 29 00:01:14,819 --> 00:01:17,430 S1: ahead of her time. I probably fell into that category. 30 00:01:17,430 --> 00:01:19,590 S1: I don't think I gave girls it's flowers when it 31 00:01:19,590 --> 00:01:21,180 S1: was out. It is a pretty good joke, particularly the 32 00:01:21,180 --> 00:01:21,780 S1: first season. 33 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,510 S2: My favorite scene also involves Marnie, but it's a different scene. 34 00:01:26,130 --> 00:01:29,850 S1: We'll save that one for the Patreon podcast. Uh, look, 35 00:01:29,850 --> 00:01:33,120 S1: we got a big, big, big movie focused episode for 36 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,780 S1: you guys today. We're talking two of the biggest, buzziest 37 00:01:36,780 --> 00:01:41,580 S1: releases of the year so far Civil War, the incredibly 38 00:01:41,580 --> 00:01:46,020 S1: incendiary and intense, action packed film from Alex Garland starring 39 00:01:46,020 --> 00:01:50,820 S1: Kirsten Dunst and challenges the Zendaya led film, the latest 40 00:01:50,820 --> 00:01:54,240 S1: by Luca Guadagnino. Two very different movies, but I think 41 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,140 S1: both are very ripe for conversation and analysis. There going 42 00:01:58,140 --> 00:02:01,170 S1: to be some of the talking movies in a while, 43 00:02:01,170 --> 00:02:04,020 S1: I reckon, before we get into those. A couple of 44 00:02:04,020 --> 00:02:08,490 S1: things I wanted to cover. Taylor Swift, our friend, is back, 45 00:02:08,490 --> 00:02:11,430 S1: a new album out on Friday, I think Friday afternoon 46 00:02:11,430 --> 00:02:15,150 S1: Australian time. The rollout for this one has well and 47 00:02:15,150 --> 00:02:17,429 S1: truly begun. I'm not sure if you saw this, but 48 00:02:17,430 --> 00:02:21,420 S1: in LA, starting this week, Spotify and her label have 49 00:02:21,419 --> 00:02:25,950 S1: teamed up to host this Tortured Poets department pop up 50 00:02:25,950 --> 00:02:30,210 S1: at a local library in LA. Uh, the quote from 51 00:02:30,210 --> 00:02:32,880 S1: Spotify is pretty funny. There were a few concepts that 52 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,690 S1: we discussed creating a bedroom, a creative office, a stack 53 00:02:36,690 --> 00:02:40,440 S1: of books. But ultimately we all landed on an album 54 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,760 S1: themed open air library in which lyrics would be revealed 55 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,600 S1: over the course of the week leading into the album's release. 56 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,500 S1: So fans can go to this library and hunt for 57 00:02:52,500 --> 00:02:55,679 S1: lyrics which are on this kind of tea stained, old 58 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,700 S1: timey paper. And they'll be revealed throughout the week. And 59 00:03:00,150 --> 00:03:02,400 S1: I got to say, man, like, I know this isn't 60 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,500 S1: unique to Taylor, and everyone gets mad when you point 61 00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:06,630 S1: out things that she does that everyone else does, blah, blah, blah. 62 00:03:06,690 --> 00:03:09,090 S1: But it did feel very odd. I saw some photos 63 00:03:09,090 --> 00:03:11,760 S1: of these lyrics on on Instagram, these lyric sheets at 64 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,150 S1: this library, and they've got her poems or whatever. And 65 00:03:15,150 --> 00:03:18,179 S1: then stamped on every page is a giant Spotify logo. 66 00:03:18,180 --> 00:03:21,840 S1: And this, this sort of jarred. Right. Because this is 67 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,900 S1: an artist who has criticized streaming so frequently. She took 68 00:03:24,900 --> 00:03:29,310 S1: her music off Spotify for three years into 2014. When 69 00:03:29,310 --> 00:03:31,950 S1: she was talking about trimming. She said, Spotify. It all 70 00:03:31,950 --> 00:03:34,320 S1: feels to me a bit like a grand experiment, and 71 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,900 S1: I'm not willing to contribute my life's work to an 72 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:41,160 S1: experiment that I don't feel fairly compensates the writers, producers, 73 00:03:41,190 --> 00:03:44,220 S1: artists and creators of this music. And I just don't 74 00:03:44,220 --> 00:03:48,990 S1: agree with perpetuating the perception that music has no value. Now, look, 75 00:03:49,020 --> 00:03:51,180 S1: it's been ten years. It's a long time, but it's 76 00:03:51,180 --> 00:03:53,700 S1: a big turnaround to go from. I don't really like 77 00:03:53,700 --> 00:03:56,430 S1: the way streaming devalues art to. I am now letting 78 00:03:56,430 --> 00:04:00,600 S1: Spotify brand themselves all over my lyrics. This might seem 79 00:04:00,810 --> 00:04:03,450 S1: a small plot, but I wonder if it's all getting 80 00:04:03,450 --> 00:04:07,260 S1: a little bit too contradictory. Like the bigger Taylor gets 81 00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:11,370 S1: as this big corporate juggernaut who's everywhere juxtaposes with the 82 00:04:11,370 --> 00:04:13,800 S1: aw shucks, I'm just like a girl writing about, like, 83 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,560 S1: my little poems. I have a feeling I'm interested in 84 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,950 S1: your view on this is Tortured Poets, the moment coming 85 00:04:19,950 --> 00:04:22,590 S1: off the back of the eras tour, where everyone starts 86 00:04:22,589 --> 00:04:24,750 S1: to just say it's gotten a little bit too out 87 00:04:24,750 --> 00:04:25,590 S1: of hand. Taylor. 88 00:04:26,980 --> 00:04:29,859 S2: Uh, I do think so. I think, firstly, I don't know. 89 00:04:29,860 --> 00:04:33,130 S2: Didn't we all agree to leave like, big brand activations in, like, 90 00:04:33,130 --> 00:04:35,950 S2: the late 20 tens where they belong? I just think like, 91 00:04:35,950 --> 00:04:36,609 S2: does Taylor's. 92 00:04:36,610 --> 00:04:37,390 S1: Really good point. 93 00:04:37,510 --> 00:04:40,150 S2: Does Taylor Swift need to do, like create an open 94 00:04:40,150 --> 00:04:42,010 S2: air library like it doesn't. It's not going to move 95 00:04:42,010 --> 00:04:43,690 S2: the needle on how many people listen to her music. 96 00:04:43,690 --> 00:04:46,239 S2: I just think brand activations generally are pretty lame and 97 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,270 S2: very hard to get right. So yeah, much like flash mobs, 98 00:04:49,270 --> 00:04:51,940 S2: I hope they die a death really soon. But yeah, 99 00:04:51,940 --> 00:04:55,419 S2: I do think I felt a bit weird about this 100 00:04:55,420 --> 00:04:59,770 S2: album coming out this week, generally because I know, again, 101 00:04:59,770 --> 00:05:02,080 S2: I'm supposed to feel excited and I do feel excited, 102 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,200 S2: but I do still maintain even from the minute she, like, 103 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,240 S2: you know, stole the show at the Grammys and announced 104 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,540 S2: it that just like we all need a bit more 105 00:05:10,540 --> 00:05:13,270 S2: breathing room, like I said, you know, you know, from 106 00:05:13,270 --> 00:05:16,720 S2: from Taylor and Taylor mania, she's had this incredibly successful 107 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,320 S2: world tour, this three hour massive box office hit film, 108 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,720 S2: and it just feels like sometimes there is too much 109 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,750 S2: of a good thing. Um, you know, we're still enjoying 110 00:05:25,750 --> 00:05:28,510 S2: and processing Cowboy Carter, and now we've got to, you know, 111 00:05:28,510 --> 00:05:31,570 S2: take on another album from arguably the only other as 112 00:05:31,570 --> 00:05:34,240 S2: influential pop star. So, yeah, I don't know. But in 113 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,480 S2: terms of what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, look, maybe 114 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:38,980 S2: she's in her experimental era now. 115 00:05:39,580 --> 00:05:43,030 S1: Yeah. I'm struggling to articulate what feels weird about all 116 00:05:43,029 --> 00:05:45,490 S1: of this, because I'm sure fans could nitpick and say 117 00:05:45,490 --> 00:05:47,410 S1: it's just a marketing thing, like, let her do it. 118 00:05:47,410 --> 00:05:51,250 S1: But I think you're right that it feels you need 119 00:05:51,250 --> 00:05:54,400 S1: a bit of space for a big, new, exciting project 120 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,310 S1: to feel big, new and exciting. And it doesn't really 121 00:05:57,310 --> 00:06:00,130 S1: feel like we've had enough space. And I know that, like, 122 00:06:00,130 --> 00:06:02,590 S1: the Taylor Swift fans are very excited about this and 123 00:06:02,589 --> 00:06:04,720 S1: they will be passing of all of these lyrics. But 124 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,540 S1: I also have to say, man, where like three days 125 00:06:07,540 --> 00:06:09,789 S1: out from this album coming out and it doesn't feel 126 00:06:09,790 --> 00:06:11,979 S1: like it, you know, like it doesn't feel like there's 127 00:06:11,980 --> 00:06:14,470 S1: a lot of anticipation or buzz in the air. And 128 00:06:14,470 --> 00:06:16,390 S1: I think this album is obviously still going to sell 129 00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:18,250 S1: a bunch of copies, like, she's got so many fans, 130 00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:20,710 S1: she could do anything and go to number one. But 131 00:06:20,710 --> 00:06:25,120 S1: I do wonder whether there's just been an oversaturation. And 132 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,880 S1: we look back on the tortured poets sort of moment 133 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,430 S1: or era as one where it was just a bit 134 00:06:30,430 --> 00:06:33,700 S1: too much, too soon. It just doesn't feel like the 135 00:06:33,700 --> 00:06:36,279 S1: streets are hungry for it. In a way. They have 136 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,049 S1: been for other projects. 137 00:06:38,050 --> 00:06:40,779 S2: Yeah, and Taylor famously has the ear of the streets, 138 00:06:40,779 --> 00:06:44,080 S2: so I'm shocked by. But yeah, I think yeah, I 139 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:45,820 S2: do tend to agree and look no doubt, you know, 140 00:06:45,820 --> 00:06:48,640 S2: as you said, like it will be an enormous success. 141 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,430 S2: But I definitely do think the appetite is not quite there. 142 00:06:51,550 --> 00:06:53,800 S2: And it feels like even the last album wasn't really 143 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,240 S2: that long ago. Hmm. 144 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,029 S1: I mean, she won album of the year like four 145 00:06:58,029 --> 00:07:00,159 S1: months ago, right, for the last album and now there's 146 00:07:00,250 --> 00:07:01,419 S1: the new one coming out. 147 00:07:01,420 --> 00:07:04,239 S2: Yeah. I'll be curious to see what people make of it. 148 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,159 S2: And no doubt, like I am very much intending to 149 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,890 S2: listen to it over the weekend, but I wouldn't say 150 00:07:08,890 --> 00:07:12,160 S2: my level of like personal anticipation and buzz is peaking. 151 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,050 S2: I'm just kind of like, okay, we're back in Taylor 152 00:07:14,050 --> 00:07:14,740 S2: mode again. 153 00:07:15,070 --> 00:07:19,150 S1: Well, she was also all over our social feeds this week. Uh, 154 00:07:19,150 --> 00:07:22,780 S1: at Coachella. She was there with with Travis Kelce, your 155 00:07:22,780 --> 00:07:26,590 S1: best friend. Uh, she was photographed like hanging out in 156 00:07:26,590 --> 00:07:28,270 S1: the crowd, which is pretty cool. Seems like it's nice 157 00:07:28,270 --> 00:07:30,220 S1: for a celebrity to have a nice time. I think 158 00:07:30,220 --> 00:07:32,650 S1: she's actually talked previously about how she's always wanted to 159 00:07:32,650 --> 00:07:35,320 S1: go to Coachella, but just didn't think she'd be able 160 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,380 S1: to enjoy herself because of the fan, I guess. Madness 161 00:07:38,380 --> 00:07:42,100 S1: around her. She checked out Australian artist Dom Dolla. People 162 00:07:42,100 --> 00:07:45,490 S1: like him. Rhyme does that. Certainly a song people like. 163 00:07:45,490 --> 00:07:48,130 S1: Happy for him to have Taylor and Travis rocking up. 164 00:07:48,130 --> 00:07:51,370 S1: Did you did you follow much of the Coachella excitement 165 00:07:51,370 --> 00:07:52,270 S1: over this weekend? 166 00:07:52,870 --> 00:07:54,340 S2: Yeah, I kind of checked it out. It's weird because 167 00:07:54,340 --> 00:07:55,690 S2: it's become one of those things that you can't really 168 00:07:55,690 --> 00:07:59,380 S2: avoid now. It's just like as you kind of refresh 169 00:07:59,380 --> 00:08:02,320 S2: Instagram and you find out what's going on at Coachella. 170 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,060 S2: And I feel like over the last few years, Coachella 171 00:08:04,060 --> 00:08:06,910 S2: has become almost like a parody of itself. In a way. 172 00:08:07,090 --> 00:08:10,150 S2: It's like this, you know, content machine where celebrities go 173 00:08:10,150 --> 00:08:13,600 S2: to appear to be normal or something they, like, partake 174 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,080 S2: in this performative like regular man type thing where they're 175 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,510 S2: just walking around in their festival clothes and like, checking 176 00:08:19,510 --> 00:08:21,490 S2: out their friends, acts and stuff. But it all feels 177 00:08:21,490 --> 00:08:22,870 S2: a bit fake to me. I don't know. 178 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,230 S1: It. It does feel like it's almost like a pantomime 179 00:08:26,230 --> 00:08:28,330 S1: of a festival, like people started making fun of Coachella 180 00:08:28,330 --> 00:08:33,820 S1: because it became this influencer kind of focused, celebrity focused festival. 181 00:08:34,059 --> 00:08:36,099 S1: But yeah, you're right, it feels like they've just totally 182 00:08:36,100 --> 00:08:37,990 S1: leaned into that. And now most of what you see 183 00:08:37,990 --> 00:08:40,540 S1: at Coachella is like a bit of who's performing and 184 00:08:40,540 --> 00:08:43,420 S1: who's not and who's tanking and who's doing well. But 185 00:08:43,420 --> 00:08:46,480 S1: then also just, you know, pages and pages of which 186 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,030 S1: celebs are going in the crowd and hanging out. That 187 00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:52,150 S1: was some cool stuff. I say cool stuff from a 188 00:08:52,150 --> 00:08:54,640 S1: content perspective. The thing that I saw the most on 189 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,330 S1: my feed was Grimes is set where she just couldn't 190 00:08:58,330 --> 00:09:01,030 S1: beat match and had a bit of a tantrum. That 191 00:09:01,030 --> 00:09:04,270 S1: feels like you're kind of like high school nightmare, where 192 00:09:04,270 --> 00:09:06,489 S1: you wake up and you're at school and and you're 193 00:09:06,490 --> 00:09:09,550 S1: not wearing any clothes. It was really hard to watch. 194 00:09:09,550 --> 00:09:12,220 S2: Yeah, it was like a talent quest gone bad. I mean, 195 00:09:12,220 --> 00:09:16,030 S2: between that and then Damon Albarn of Blur obviously abusing people, um, 196 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:17,710 S2: but this is what I mean. Like, even that is 197 00:09:17,710 --> 00:09:21,069 S2: funny because, like, blur are a fun band. They're a 198 00:09:21,070 --> 00:09:25,810 S2: weird choice for a festival that's, like, really populated by probably, like, young. 199 00:09:25,929 --> 00:09:29,230 S2: A people, especially now. An influence, a heavy crowd. Do 200 00:09:29,230 --> 00:09:31,630 S2: they give a fuck about song two or, you know, 201 00:09:31,630 --> 00:09:33,010 S2: like Parklife and stuff? 202 00:09:33,010 --> 00:09:36,160 S1: Definitely. That to me was really interesting because people were like, oh, 203 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,580 S1: the Coachella crowd doesn't deserve blur. I'm like, the Coachella 204 00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:41,620 S1: crowd are like 19, 20 years old. They don't know 205 00:09:41,620 --> 00:09:44,620 S1: who Damon Albarn is. I had this experience at splendour 206 00:09:44,620 --> 00:09:47,020 S1: a couple of years ago with Liam Gallagher played, and 207 00:09:47,020 --> 00:09:49,540 S1: I've always wanted to see Oasis live at a festival. 208 00:09:49,540 --> 00:09:51,550 S1: Never thought that I would and this is sick. And 209 00:09:51,550 --> 00:09:54,459 S1: in my head I imagine this thing where the amphitheater, 210 00:09:54,460 --> 00:09:58,390 S1: you know, was like 20,000 people all singing Wonderwall. It 211 00:09:58,390 --> 00:10:01,420 S1: was like one of the quietest sets of that festival, 212 00:10:01,450 --> 00:10:03,760 S1: because I think most of the younger people were there 213 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,740 S1: for like, Jack Harlow, and they're like, why is this 214 00:10:05,740 --> 00:10:08,650 S1: old man swearing at me? And like, drinking on stage? 215 00:10:08,650 --> 00:10:11,440 S1: It's this funny thing where it's like festival music. People 216 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,530 S1: want acts from a certain generation, but what the kids 217 00:10:14,530 --> 00:10:16,930 S1: want to pay lots of money to see is something 218 00:10:16,929 --> 00:10:19,060 S1: a bit more contemporary and good. 219 00:10:19,059 --> 00:10:20,890 S2: Yeah, I know, and obviously we've been talking so much 220 00:10:20,890 --> 00:10:24,400 S2: about like, I guess, the festival ecosystem and what it takes. 221 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,650 S2: And I would say that, you know, like splendour has 222 00:10:26,650 --> 00:10:29,950 S2: been accused of kind of leaning heavily into the nostalgia 223 00:10:29,950 --> 00:10:32,530 S2: acts while occasionally throwing in like something like sprinkling it 224 00:10:32,530 --> 00:10:35,020 S2: with contemporary. And I don't necessarily know if, you know, 225 00:10:35,020 --> 00:10:37,569 S2: splendour was to rebrand and come back as a Coachella, 226 00:10:37,570 --> 00:10:40,120 S2: you know, kind of like type celebrity festival and how 227 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,209 S2: you even do that. But yeah, it's just it's just 228 00:10:43,210 --> 00:10:45,160 S2: a very strange thing. Like even at that top level. 229 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:46,689 S2: And Coachella is, you know, probably one of the most 230 00:10:46,690 --> 00:10:49,540 S2: famous festivals, there's still obviously a bit of a disconnect where, 231 00:10:49,540 --> 00:10:53,080 S2: you know, you have your Damon Albarn and Blur's playing 232 00:10:53,110 --> 00:10:54,610 S2: to a crowd of people who don't really know who 233 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,949 S2: they are. The only other thing I found interesting is that, 234 00:10:56,950 --> 00:10:59,680 S2: you know, like I've been, I guess, interested in the reviews. 235 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,870 S2: I saw that Lana Del Rey did not seem to 236 00:11:01,870 --> 00:11:04,870 S2: blow people away opening night. She's a funny festival act 237 00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:07,600 S2: in that her music, you know, doesn't really. You know, 238 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,270 S2: it's in terms of like a festival crowd opening night, 239 00:11:10,270 --> 00:11:11,829 S2: you know, what you're getting from her, and it probably 240 00:11:11,830 --> 00:11:12,940 S2: isn't going to get you jazzed. 241 00:11:12,940 --> 00:11:14,920 S1: Yeah, I was a bit sad to see that didn't 242 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,410 S1: seem to hit like I love Lana, but yeah, some 243 00:11:17,410 --> 00:11:19,930 S1: of the clips I saw seemed a little bit phoned 244 00:11:19,929 --> 00:11:22,030 S1: in and like you said, maybe doesn't work in a 245 00:11:22,030 --> 00:11:25,780 S1: big open air festival setting. Vampire weekend. My guys were there. 246 00:11:25,780 --> 00:11:28,600 S1: They brought Paris Hilton out, which is pretty funny. But again, 247 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,490 S1: that just sort of feels like peak like mid to 248 00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:33,190 S1: late 2000 more than it, you know, felt like it 249 00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:36,460 S1: would resonate for the younger crowd that were there. It 250 00:11:36,460 --> 00:11:39,219 S1: is interesting. I wasn't necessarily expecting Coachella to be this 251 00:11:39,220 --> 00:11:42,490 S1: big talking point, because we'd heard that ticket sales hadn't 252 00:11:42,850 --> 00:11:44,860 S1: as been as big as there have been in the past. 253 00:11:44,860 --> 00:11:47,620 S1: I don't think it's sold out. It's over two weekends now, 254 00:11:47,620 --> 00:11:50,020 S1: so it kind of is diffuse the way that people 255 00:11:50,020 --> 00:11:52,119 S1: talk about it, but obviously it still has some of 256 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,550 S1: the biggest artists in the world. And, you know, Billie 257 00:11:54,550 --> 00:11:56,350 S1: Eilish jumped up on stage with Lana. So you're going 258 00:11:56,350 --> 00:11:58,090 S1: to get these moments that are going to get people 259 00:11:58,090 --> 00:12:00,730 S1: talking about it, which is probably good for the festival 260 00:12:00,730 --> 00:12:03,219 S1: in terms of its longevity. And yeah, how does something 261 00:12:03,220 --> 00:12:05,260 S1: like splendour recreate that? I mean, there was that year 262 00:12:05,260 --> 00:12:08,170 S1: where Elon Musk and Amber heard was spotted. That feels 263 00:12:08,170 --> 00:12:09,670 S1: like a lifetime ago. Maybe you and I need to 264 00:12:09,670 --> 00:12:12,700 S1: just like, you know, go more and post more. And 265 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:15,940 S1: people are like, wow, is that Thomas and Oz, that splendour? 266 00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:17,770 S2: I was more thinking that we might, like, be called 267 00:12:17,770 --> 00:12:19,900 S2: into curate or something. I mean, we often think that 268 00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:21,730 S2: the solve to most issues is that you and I 269 00:12:21,730 --> 00:12:23,710 S2: get put in charge, and then we just fix from. 270 00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:26,439 S1: From the low keys to splendour. Just let us produce 271 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:26,800 S1: the event. 272 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,180 S2: Yeah, that's probably more of an ass problem that we 273 00:12:28,179 --> 00:12:29,229 S2: can unpack off it. 274 00:12:30,580 --> 00:12:33,189 S1: All right, let's talk movie, shall we? Start with Civil War. 275 00:12:33,429 --> 00:12:37,120 S3: 19 states have seceded. The United States Army ramps up activity. 276 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,700 S3: The white House issued warnings to the Western forces, as 277 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,700 S3: well as the Florida Alliance. Three term president assures. 278 00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:45,100 S4: The uprising will be dealt with swiftly. 279 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:46,599 S5: Let me know if you want to try anything. 280 00:12:47,140 --> 00:12:49,120 S6: You guys are aware of. It's like a pretty huge 281 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,490 S6: civil war going on all across America. 282 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:54,339 S5: We just try to stay out with what we see 283 00:12:54,340 --> 00:12:56,530 S5: on the news. Seems like it's for the best. 284 00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:05,449 S1: This movie. It cost 50 million USD to make. It's 285 00:13:05,450 --> 00:13:09,650 S1: the biggest budget film from both A24. One of your 286 00:13:09,650 --> 00:13:12,950 S1: favorite studios, Thomas, if not your favorite studio. And from 287 00:13:12,950 --> 00:13:15,800 S1: the writer and director Alex Garland, who's best known for 288 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,859 S1: writing the book The Beach, which was adapted into the 289 00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:21,500 S1: film starring Leonardo DiCaprio. He also wrote the screenplay for 290 00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:26,780 S1: 28 days Later, he directed Ex Machina, Annihilation Men. This 291 00:13:26,780 --> 00:13:30,770 S1: is his latest. It's set in an America torn apart 292 00:13:30,770 --> 00:13:34,309 S1: by civil wars, a strongman third term president played by 293 00:13:34,309 --> 00:13:38,180 S1: Nick Offerman, attempting to face down a military uprising from 294 00:13:38,179 --> 00:13:42,109 S1: various different factions across the country. The film focuses on 295 00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:46,130 S1: four journalists a seasoned war photographer played by Kirsten Dunst, 296 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,490 S1: a younger photographer who idolizes her, played by Priscilla as 297 00:13:49,490 --> 00:13:54,319 S1: Cailee Spaeny, and two reporters, Wagner Moura and Stephen McKinley Henderson. 298 00:13:54,350 --> 00:13:56,750 S1: The film is kind of like a road movie meets 299 00:13:56,750 --> 00:13:59,480 S1: a war movie. The four journalists are on this mission 300 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,290 S1: to travel towards Washington, D.C. and try and secure an 301 00:14:03,290 --> 00:14:07,040 S1: interview with the president before these rebel factions take over 302 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,250 S1: the country. Along the way, they see the Civil War firsthand. 303 00:14:10,250 --> 00:14:13,160 S1: They witness various battles. They go to a refugee camp, 304 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,610 S1: and they look at how the war is impacting different 305 00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:20,400 S1: parts of the country and different ways. I think like 306 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,040 S1: while the action in this movie is like very intense 307 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,200 S1: and very gripping, and the sound design in particular is 308 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,610 S1: like very jolting. The climactic sequence is a very intense 309 00:14:29,610 --> 00:14:33,540 S1: and big battle scene. The movie was way less about 310 00:14:33,540 --> 00:14:36,660 S1: like war than I thought it would be. It was 311 00:14:36,660 --> 00:14:39,990 S1: way more about journalism and some of the questions around 312 00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:44,640 S1: war journalism and and how journalism operates in this kind 313 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,660 S1: of modern era of extreme political division than I expected 314 00:14:48,660 --> 00:14:51,570 S1: it to be from both the trailer and the early 315 00:14:51,570 --> 00:14:55,470 S1: conversation around it. Thomas, what did you make of this film? 316 00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:58,620 S2: Yeah, it definitely was a different film to what I 317 00:14:58,620 --> 00:15:01,890 S2: think I was expecting, which is from what I can gather, the, 318 00:15:01,890 --> 00:15:04,260 S2: the surface level take for most people. And that then 319 00:15:04,260 --> 00:15:06,510 S2: kind of bleeds into what some people's issue with the 320 00:15:06,510 --> 00:15:08,310 S2: film is. But we can kind of get into that. 321 00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:11,220 S2: But I, I really enjoyed it. Um, for me, it 322 00:15:11,220 --> 00:15:15,900 S2: was almost like this old fashioned blockbuster, like almost an 323 00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:18,989 S2: Independence Day style film. I couldn't get that film out 324 00:15:18,990 --> 00:15:21,000 S2: of my head, actually. Like, you know, in terms of 325 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,830 S2: just like it's a road movie, they're trying to get 326 00:15:22,830 --> 00:15:25,110 S2: one place to another every stop along the way off 327 00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:27,810 S2: as some kind of challenge. It was very much like 328 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,750 S2: a more traditional old fashioned film than I expected. And 329 00:15:30,750 --> 00:15:33,660 S2: because of that, I really enjoyed it. Great performances across 330 00:15:33,660 --> 00:15:36,930 S2: the board. I think this was a performance from Kirsten Dunst, 331 00:15:36,930 --> 00:15:39,750 S2: who we know is, you know, I kind of started 332 00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:42,120 S2: out as this weird, like, you know, teen film star, 333 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,920 S2: but is now like such an amazing actress with an 334 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,520 S2: incredible body of work. And yeah, it just really kind 335 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,950 S2: of like sucked me in. Um, it was a great 336 00:15:49,950 --> 00:15:52,590 S2: example of an end of the world kind of dystopic film. 337 00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:55,440 S2: But yeah, basically every major thing you're looking for. So 338 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,200 S2: like performances, the way it looked, the way it sounded, 339 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,900 S2: the choices I thought it was. Yeah, probably one of 340 00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:03,360 S2: my favorite A24 films, which is really saying something. 341 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,480 S1: Yeah. Wow. Interesting. And you sort of hinted at it like, 342 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,180 S1: I feel like this movie is a real classic example 343 00:16:09,180 --> 00:16:13,380 S1: of the way that discourse just washes everything else away. 344 00:16:13,380 --> 00:16:16,080 S1: Like it's interesting to try and have a conversation about 345 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,860 S1: the film, but I guess, like America being in an 346 00:16:19,860 --> 00:16:24,150 S1: election year, this movie being called Civil War immediately just 347 00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:27,780 S1: had everyone's antennas alert and they're like, okay, what side 348 00:16:27,780 --> 00:16:29,550 S1: is this film going to weigh on? And, you know, 349 00:16:29,550 --> 00:16:32,160 S1: the people were pointing out in the trailer, there's this 350 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,400 S1: faction that is the Texas California Alliance. That makes no sense, 351 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,830 S1: because Texas is a red state and California is a 352 00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:39,210 S1: blue state. And why would they be in an alliance? 353 00:16:39,210 --> 00:16:44,490 S1: And that has filtered through even post the movie being out. 354 00:16:44,490 --> 00:16:47,700 S1: And it seems like a lot of people kind of 355 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:51,900 S1: lost their minds about those elements of the film. What 356 00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:54,270 S1: did you make of the reaction? And I'm interested whether 357 00:16:54,270 --> 00:16:57,660 S1: you have much of a relationship to, like Alex Garland generally, 358 00:16:57,660 --> 00:17:00,210 S1: and any of his earlier films that maybe gave you 359 00:17:00,210 --> 00:17:02,100 S1: a sense of expectation with this one. 360 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,230 S2: Yeah, I guess this is kind of like strictly in 361 00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:08,190 S2: the Alex Garland wheelhouse. This may not shock you. In fact, 362 00:17:08,190 --> 00:17:10,530 S2: I suspect it will not. But I loved The Beach, 363 00:17:10,619 --> 00:17:14,310 S2: his book, obviously, they made the film that starred Leonardo DiCaprio. 364 00:17:14,310 --> 00:17:17,040 S1: Let me guess, you read that on a backpacking trip 365 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:18,480 S1: in Southeast Asia? Uh. 366 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,870 S2: That's so depressing that I am so predictable. I read 367 00:17:21,869 --> 00:17:24,449 S2: it when I was in Vietnam, and I basically was like, 368 00:17:24,450 --> 00:17:26,399 S2: looking for a Tilda Swinton type figure to take me 369 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,740 S2: into her wing. But yeah, like I loved that. And 370 00:17:28,740 --> 00:17:31,590 S2: then obviously, I think, you know, Ex Machina is an 371 00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:35,790 S2: incredible film, and it feels probably more poignant now than ever. Um, 372 00:17:35,790 --> 00:17:39,720 S2: and some great performances 28 Days Later, I also loved. 373 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,390 S2: So yeah, I am someone who, when Alex Garland has 374 00:17:42,390 --> 00:17:44,670 S2: a project, I'm definitely curious to see what it is. 375 00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:47,580 S2: This did feel like an extension of his brand and 376 00:17:47,580 --> 00:17:51,990 S2: his work. It's very much in his wheelhouse. But yeah, I, I, 377 00:17:52,140 --> 00:17:54,629 S2: I just it's so funny that people are so stuck 378 00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:57,780 S2: on this issue with the film and with him about like, well, 379 00:17:57,780 --> 00:17:59,520 S2: why didn't you choose a side? 380 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,800 S1: Yeah, I, I wonder whether part of that is to 381 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,170 S1: do with the fact that he's a British director and 382 00:18:04,170 --> 00:18:07,350 S1: he's weighing in on American politics, and Americans are sort 383 00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:09,780 S1: of just getting their backs up a little bit about it. Like, 384 00:18:09,780 --> 00:18:13,949 S1: I was not expecting this to be like exposition filled 385 00:18:13,950 --> 00:18:16,500 S1: in didactic way. He's like, okay, let me tell you 386 00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:19,710 S1: about what happened in this universe in 2024 that led 387 00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:22,649 S1: to X, Y, and Z, because these other movies you mentioned, 388 00:18:22,650 --> 00:18:25,740 S1: like Ex Machina, I rewatched annihilation as well. These are 389 00:18:25,740 --> 00:18:30,000 S1: movies where he's grappling with ideas. Now, in the case 390 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,100 S1: of Ex Machina, like I and like where this stuff 391 00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:34,770 S1: could go in the future, they don't really have heaps 392 00:18:34,770 --> 00:18:38,910 S1: of exposition. He's not explaining every single part of this 393 00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:41,459 S1: world and how it would work, and then saying, here's 394 00:18:41,460 --> 00:18:44,550 S1: an example of it playing out. He's just kind of 395 00:18:44,550 --> 00:18:47,909 S1: pushing you to think about certain different things. So I 396 00:18:47,910 --> 00:18:51,270 S1: didn't have that expectation. And I'm sort of surprised that 397 00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:54,239 S1: a lot of people did. And I don't know if 398 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,659 S1: the movie would be better if there was all this, like, 399 00:18:57,660 --> 00:19:00,930 S1: backstory to how we got to this point. You're dropped 400 00:19:00,930 --> 00:19:03,840 S1: in the middle of a conflict. You have a vague 401 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,080 S1: sense that there's these different factions. You don't totally know 402 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,000 S1: what everyone believes in, but you get a pretty clear 403 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,820 S1: sense from the way that the president is kind of coded, 404 00:19:11,820 --> 00:19:15,930 S1: that this is a Trump like figure, like the desire 405 00:19:15,930 --> 00:19:20,850 S1: for a director to hold an audience's hand. More than this, 406 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,609 S1: I find confusing, and I wonder whether part of it 407 00:19:23,609 --> 00:19:25,619 S1: is maybe this is too unfair. I wonder where the 408 00:19:25,619 --> 00:19:28,919 S1: part of this is, you know, the Marvel movies and 409 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,680 S1: sort of like the biggest tentpole films over the last 410 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,310 S1: decade or so have been. So these are the goodies 411 00:19:35,310 --> 00:19:37,470 S1: and these are the baddies, and this is how stuff works. 412 00:19:37,470 --> 00:19:39,690 S1: And when something is a little bit more ambiguous, people 413 00:19:39,690 --> 00:19:41,760 S1: lose their minds. Like one of the movies I thought about, 414 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,639 S1: you mentioned Independence Day. I was thinking about Children of Men, 415 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,280 S1: which was one of my favorite movies, Alfonso Cuaron, and 416 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,260 S1: that is a similar film in that you're dropped into 417 00:19:49,260 --> 00:19:52,770 S1: this world. It's a dystopian future, you know, that the. 418 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,960 S1: Elfman is pretty totalitarian. You don't really know who's in charge. 419 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,390 S1: You don't know exactly how he got to this point, 420 00:19:58,390 --> 00:20:00,939 S1: but that doesn't matter. You just get a sense of 421 00:20:00,940 --> 00:20:04,810 S1: how the world is working, and then you understand the 422 00:20:04,810 --> 00:20:07,780 S1: stakes through interactions that happen at a much smaller scale. 423 00:20:07,810 --> 00:20:09,490 S1: I thought this movie did a really good job of that. 424 00:20:09,580 --> 00:20:11,740 S1: Did you feel like it would have been better if 425 00:20:11,740 --> 00:20:15,790 S1: you had an understanding of the political factions involved in 426 00:20:15,790 --> 00:20:17,320 S1: their ideological motivations? 427 00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:19,359 S2: No, I don't think so. But I do kind of 428 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,900 S2: understand why people might be frustrated, like we're so conditioned 429 00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:27,280 S2: now to look for like ideological meaning in everything, let 430 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,010 S2: alone a movie called Civil War that, you know, on 431 00:20:30,010 --> 00:20:32,590 S2: surface level appears to be like ripped out of the, 432 00:20:32,619 --> 00:20:35,020 S2: you know, January 6th Capitol uprising. There's so much in 433 00:20:35,020 --> 00:20:38,320 S2: this that people might recognize. And so you do kind 434 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,020 S2: of go in with this, like, expectation that you're going 435 00:20:41,020 --> 00:20:44,290 S2: to get that type of film. And I also think like, 436 00:20:44,410 --> 00:20:48,190 S2: you know, cynically, people suspect maybe did Garland, like, not 437 00:20:48,190 --> 00:20:50,650 S2: pick a side. So he didn't alienate anyone. So therefore 438 00:20:50,650 --> 00:20:52,960 S2: like in bottom line, terms like the box office would 439 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,000 S2: be bigger. Like if this came in and everyone was like, 440 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,630 S2: this is a real liberal like Blue State movie, then 441 00:20:58,630 --> 00:21:00,970 S2: like all of the, you know, red state people are 442 00:21:00,970 --> 00:21:02,409 S2: just like not going to go and see it. And 443 00:21:02,410 --> 00:21:04,600 S2: I mean, funnily enough, all of this conversation, at the 444 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,100 S2: end of the day, I don't think it really even matters. 445 00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:08,410 S2: Like I was reading all the different reviews. And I mean, 446 00:21:08,410 --> 00:21:11,740 S2: this won't shock you, but Breitbart, the review is like 447 00:21:11,740 --> 00:21:15,639 S2: the headline is Civil War review ridiculously dopey anti-Trump snuff film. 448 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,800 S2: So like these, you know, Russell on sides are going 449 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,109 S2: to see what they want to see anyway. I don't 450 00:21:20,109 --> 00:21:22,090 S2: personally feel this way, but I can see why people 451 00:21:22,090 --> 00:21:26,590 S2: are frustrated or suspicious of Garland's like, you know, refusal 452 00:21:26,590 --> 00:21:29,350 S2: to give us too much color in terms of like, 453 00:21:29,530 --> 00:21:31,840 S2: who is what and what we should feel, and especially 454 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,540 S2: what our four main characters are, where they sit. Like, yeah, 455 00:21:34,540 --> 00:21:37,030 S2: we do suspect that Nick Offerman is a Trump like figure. 456 00:21:37,030 --> 00:21:39,550 S2: And how we're kind of it's easy to know how 457 00:21:39,550 --> 00:21:42,399 S2: we're supposed to feel about him, but the rest of everything, 458 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,100 S2: like the rest of it is, remains kind of like ambiguous. 459 00:21:45,490 --> 00:21:47,560 S1: That Breitbart review is really interesting, because I feel like 460 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,920 S1: most of what I read is from liberal lefty leaning 461 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,500 S1: like New York and L.A. critics, and I feel like 462 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:55,989 S1: that criticism is more we're looking down the barrel of 463 00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:59,859 S1: potentially another Trump presidency. A director is making, like this 464 00:21:59,859 --> 00:22:03,100 S1: film called Civil War. Why isn't he saying that Republicans 465 00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:06,100 S1: are evil and Democrats are good? And I think that's interesting, 466 00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:08,020 S1: because I think when people say this movie is to 467 00:22:08,020 --> 00:22:10,419 S1: a political, I actually think what they mean is it's 468 00:22:10,420 --> 00:22:13,240 S1: too like non-partisan. And I guess by that I mean, 469 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,330 S1: they're maybe wanting a Democrat versus Republican narrative, a good 470 00:22:16,330 --> 00:22:19,780 S1: versus bad, but that doesn't exist. But there's politics throughout 471 00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:22,959 S1: this movie. Like there are explicit conversations about race and 472 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,560 S1: who belongs, and the way that people from different parts 473 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,250 S1: of the country react to war versus others. I think 474 00:22:30,250 --> 00:22:32,950 S1: that is all there. But that's like small politics. And 475 00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:34,750 S1: maybe that's not enough for some people who want it 476 00:22:34,750 --> 00:22:37,570 S1: to be a bigger lesson about the warnings of Trump. 477 00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:40,420 S1: And maybe what people are brushing up against as well 478 00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:43,060 S1: is I think that's part of this movie that is 479 00:22:43,060 --> 00:22:45,609 S1: also saying the people on the other side to a 480 00:22:45,609 --> 00:22:48,969 S1: Trumpian figure are not necessarily perfect, like, who knows what 481 00:22:48,970 --> 00:22:53,619 S1: their motivations really are. And and war is crazy and bad, 482 00:22:53,619 --> 00:22:56,080 S1: and civil war is insane. And even if you think 483 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,449 S1: there's a good side and a bad side, both sides 484 00:22:58,450 --> 00:23:01,119 S1: will commit atrocities and do bad things. That tends to 485 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,570 S1: be the nature of kind of conflict. And that's a 486 00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:09,070 S1: bit ambiguous. That's morally like unclear. And for a lot 487 00:23:09,070 --> 00:23:11,800 S1: of people who are freaking out in America about what 488 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,890 S1: the election might portend, maybe they think that it's not 489 00:23:14,890 --> 00:23:17,500 S1: clear enough. But I think it's more interesting in a way, 490 00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:19,900 S1: to make a film where you're not saying this side 491 00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:22,540 S1: is unambiguously good and this side is unambiguously bad. You're 492 00:23:22,540 --> 00:23:26,470 S1: just saying, if we got to a point where violent 493 00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:29,800 S1: military conflict erupted in America, it would probably look a 494 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,290 S1: little bit like this, and it would make you second 495 00:23:32,290 --> 00:23:34,330 S1: guess who you thought was clearly right and who you 496 00:23:34,330 --> 00:23:35,410 S1: thought was clearly wrong. 497 00:23:35,410 --> 00:23:37,180 S2: And I guess that is the thing of like having 498 00:23:37,180 --> 00:23:39,670 S2: this Western forces that is made up of California and, 499 00:23:39,670 --> 00:23:43,210 S2: and Texas like to, you know, politically diametrically opposed forces. 500 00:23:43,210 --> 00:23:44,830 S2: It's like it's like the ultimate get out of jail 501 00:23:44,830 --> 00:23:47,470 S2: free card. Yeah. He's like, okay, well, I've done this. So, 502 00:23:47,470 --> 00:23:49,540 S2: so like it's almost like this is the world we're in. 503 00:23:49,540 --> 00:23:51,190 S2: Like it is the near future, but it's definitely a 504 00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:53,170 S2: different world to the one we currently exist in. And 505 00:23:53,170 --> 00:23:54,939 S2: then so like all bets are off, which again, I 506 00:23:54,940 --> 00:23:56,800 S2: can see how people are like, oh well that's a 507 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,919 S2: bit tricky. You, you want the like relevancy and the 508 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,429 S2: punch of making a movie in 2024 that feels so 509 00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:07,240 S2: like disturbingly poignant. But then you're like putting in these 510 00:24:07,390 --> 00:24:10,090 S2: safeguards to make sure people can't, like, criticize too much 511 00:24:10,090 --> 00:24:12,040 S2: that you, you know, did you, like, pull your punches 512 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,419 S2: on on what really mattered? 513 00:24:13,420 --> 00:24:15,970 S1: Yeah, I think that's right. I think, though, if anyone 514 00:24:15,970 --> 00:24:18,609 S1: is in doubt as to what Garland is saying in 515 00:24:18,609 --> 00:24:20,650 S1: this movie, and even if he isn't shouting it from 516 00:24:20,650 --> 00:24:22,990 S1: the rooftops and every scene, it comes at this point 517 00:24:22,990 --> 00:24:24,909 S1: towards the end of the movie, the scene that I 518 00:24:24,910 --> 00:24:26,830 S1: think a lot of critics have said is, is one 519 00:24:26,830 --> 00:24:28,119 S1: of the standouts of the year. I think you and 520 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,359 S1: I both love it, too. The the Jesse Plemons scene, 521 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:32,980 S1: we don't give too much away for people haven't seen 522 00:24:32,980 --> 00:24:36,639 S1: the movie, but it is a very explicit, I guess, 523 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,580 S1: like reckoning with a lot of things happening in America 524 00:24:39,580 --> 00:24:42,010 S1: right now about what makes an American like. That's the 525 00:24:42,010 --> 00:24:43,719 S1: line Jesse Plemons says, what kind of American? I was 526 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,140 S1: in the trailer. When it plays out in the film, 527 00:24:47,140 --> 00:24:50,260 S1: it is like, you know, you don't breathe for the 528 00:24:50,260 --> 00:24:52,629 S1: 2 or 3 minutes that this is happening, and I don't. 529 00:24:52,810 --> 00:24:54,520 S1: Maybe that's what bright but doesn't like. I think if 530 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,320 S1: you're not sure what side the movie is on, you 531 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,080 S1: get to that scene. You're like, oh, okay. I think 532 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,389 S1: I'm pretty clear about the kind of world Alex Garland 533 00:25:01,390 --> 00:25:03,040 S1: wants us to live in, and the one that he 534 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,149 S1: doesn't want us to live in. 535 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,390 S2: Yeah, that was definitely, um, the best scene of the movie. 536 00:25:07,390 --> 00:25:09,940 S2: And the one I think that people walk away from, 537 00:25:10,150 --> 00:25:12,490 S2: you know, and will remember. It's always I'm always impressed. 538 00:25:12,490 --> 00:25:14,650 S2: Just as a side note, like he's in the movie 539 00:25:14,650 --> 00:25:16,570 S2: for like five minutes, Jesse Plemons and he, like, steals 540 00:25:16,570 --> 00:25:18,820 S2: the whole show. That's that's very impressive. 541 00:25:18,970 --> 00:25:21,129 S1: It's incredible. And I think partly why it works is 542 00:25:21,130 --> 00:25:23,860 S1: he's such a menacing character, but he I guess his 543 00:25:23,859 --> 00:25:26,050 S1: physicality and a lot of the roles that he plays 544 00:25:26,050 --> 00:25:29,620 S1: tend to not be like villainous and menacing, obviously. Like, 545 00:25:29,619 --> 00:25:31,570 S1: you know, he famously killed that person in Friday Night 546 00:25:31,570 --> 00:25:34,180 S1: Lights and that terrible, terrible season. But since then he 547 00:25:34,180 --> 00:25:36,459 S1: sort of like, kind of gregarious and, you know, he 548 00:25:36,460 --> 00:25:39,490 S1: can be a little bit like, inquisitive and and menacing, 549 00:25:39,490 --> 00:25:41,470 S1: like he was a little bit when he was the 550 00:25:41,470 --> 00:25:44,169 S1: investigator and killers of the Flower Moon. But someone this 551 00:25:44,170 --> 00:25:47,530 S1: kind of evil you don't expect from Jesse Plemons. And 552 00:25:47,530 --> 00:25:50,620 S1: so that kind of contrast shocks you, jolts you a 553 00:25:50,619 --> 00:25:51,220 S1: little bit. 554 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,160 S2: Yeah. And plus he's wearing, like, delightful pink glasses, which 555 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:54,970 S2: I quite liked. 556 00:25:54,970 --> 00:25:57,190 S1: Those glasses. I would love to find out where they 557 00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:59,920 S1: got those glasses from. I've never seen glasses like that before. 558 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:02,170 S2: Yeah, that's that's a good costuming question because it's like 559 00:26:02,170 --> 00:26:05,109 S2: everything else about him is so, like, make so much sense. 560 00:26:05,109 --> 00:26:07,179 S2: And then he's just wearing these, like, crazy, almost like 561 00:26:07,180 --> 00:26:08,680 S2: Coachella style. Give me the. 562 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,500 S1: Vulture. Like, you know, 10,000 word oral history of, like, 563 00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:13,840 S1: where Jesse Plemons got those glasses from in this movie. 564 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,520 S2: I'm sure. I'm sure they've got a team of 50 565 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:16,389 S2: working on it right now. 566 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,719 S1: Uh, can we talk a bit about the representation of 567 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,680 S1: journalism in this film? Thomas, we mentioned earlier that this 568 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,780 S1: movie is. Yeah, it's a war movie. And the action 569 00:26:25,780 --> 00:26:29,380 S1: is is pretty intense and and pretty, I think like 570 00:26:29,380 --> 00:26:34,540 S1: masterfully done. But we are following for journalists and the 571 00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:36,910 S1: cast have talked about this film being a love letter 572 00:26:36,910 --> 00:26:40,210 S1: to journalism. Garland's father was a political cartoonist. He says 573 00:26:40,210 --> 00:26:43,240 S1: he grew up around journalist and has talked a lot 574 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,820 S1: in interviews for this movie about the importance of a 575 00:26:45,820 --> 00:26:50,410 S1: model of independent, unbiased journalism that he thinks is disappearing. 576 00:26:50,410 --> 00:26:53,770 S1: And he wanted these characters to embody. 577 00:26:54,040 --> 00:27:01,060 S7: A free press, protects the people against the excesses of government. 578 00:27:01,060 --> 00:27:03,970 S7: It is a check and a balance on any and 579 00:27:03,970 --> 00:27:06,760 S7: all governments. That's what a free press does. You can't 580 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,119 S7: take that away and you can't. You shouldn't disrespect it. 581 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,080 S7: I think obviously there's a problem. The problem comes partly 582 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,649 S7: from politicians deliberately attacking the press. And it comes. 583 00:27:17,650 --> 00:27:20,500 S1: Partly. What's really interesting is I'm not totally sure this 584 00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:24,909 S1: film is a love letter to journalism. Like there's questions 585 00:27:24,910 --> 00:27:29,950 S1: around the motivations of these journalists. There's questions about whether 586 00:27:29,950 --> 00:27:33,879 S1: the work that they're doing is actually fulfilling any kind 587 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,189 S1: of greater purpose, the way that they think that it is. 588 00:27:36,190 --> 00:27:39,310 S1: There's a lot of criticism from journalists that this movie 589 00:27:39,310 --> 00:27:42,909 S1: doesn't really show the act of journalism beyond taking photos. 590 00:27:42,910 --> 00:27:44,889 S1: It's like, who was the audience for this? What are 591 00:27:44,890 --> 00:27:46,990 S1: the stories that they're writing? What's going on? I think 592 00:27:46,990 --> 00:27:49,180 S1: that's all really interesting. My kind of take on it is, 593 00:27:49,180 --> 00:27:51,340 S1: I think, I mean, maybe I'm totally wrong and I'm 594 00:27:51,340 --> 00:27:54,280 S1: just reading criticism into this movie of journalism that doesn't exist, 595 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:59,520 S1: but the sense I got was. I think. The journalists 596 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,000 S1: like the Wagner character, like the character, think they're doing 597 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,929 S1: something incredibly important and meaningful. And the film is sort 598 00:28:06,930 --> 00:28:09,690 S1: of revealing that perhaps that's not the case, that maybe 599 00:28:09,690 --> 00:28:12,450 S1: this idea of you get that one great shot and 600 00:28:12,450 --> 00:28:15,480 S1: people watch it and they read about it and they 601 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,690 S1: see the photo and everything changes. The world becomes a 602 00:28:18,690 --> 00:28:20,820 S1: better place. I think the movie is kind of saying 603 00:28:20,820 --> 00:28:24,510 S1: that doesn't exist. If it ever did, it certainly doesn't exist. Now. 604 00:28:24,510 --> 00:28:26,640 S1: What did you make of the way journalism is portrayed 605 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:27,270 S1: in the film? 606 00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:30,330 S2: Yeah, in the first instance, I found, uh, as a 607 00:28:30,330 --> 00:28:34,800 S2: professional journalist, um, at the most esteemed newspaper in the country. No, 608 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,139 S2: but the first thing I couldn't really get past was 609 00:28:37,140 --> 00:28:39,840 S2: purely like a logistic thing, in that I did. I 610 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,880 S2: really struggled at first to be like, well, hold on, 611 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,670 S2: who do these guys work for? There's no like we 612 00:28:44,670 --> 00:28:47,940 S2: do learn later. Spoiler alert that it's Reuters, I believe. Um, 613 00:28:47,940 --> 00:28:51,240 S2: but like, who do they work for? What? Who are 614 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,030 S2: they filing to? Like, you know, like, we didn't see 615 00:28:54,030 --> 00:28:56,400 S2: much of the practical act of journalism and that I 616 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,860 S2: found a little bit jarring because, like, you know, journalism 617 00:28:58,860 --> 00:29:02,670 S2: films generally get pretty widely criticized for, like, not showing 618 00:29:02,670 --> 00:29:05,010 S2: how the job actually works. And I felt like this 619 00:29:05,010 --> 00:29:06,959 S2: did fall into that a bit. I think at the 620 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,050 S2: start of the film, we see, like Kirsten Dunst filing 621 00:29:10,050 --> 00:29:11,910 S2: some photos and she's like trying to get WiFi at 622 00:29:11,910 --> 00:29:15,300 S2: the hotel, so like, internet exists. But then later on, um, 623 00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:18,690 S2: cailee Spaeny character, the young kind of journalist, she's like 624 00:29:18,690 --> 00:29:21,210 S2: looking at, um, photos on her phone, but there's no service. 625 00:29:21,210 --> 00:29:23,130 S2: And she makes a comment that there's no like, you know, 626 00:29:23,130 --> 00:29:25,860 S2: internet doesn't really exist in the same way anymore. But 627 00:29:25,860 --> 00:29:28,320 S2: I just was like, who? Who is employing this team 628 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,959 S2: of journalists? Who is commissioning them to go across the 629 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,720 S2: country to interview the president and even that we're like, 630 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,090 S2: you know, this one interview with the president. We don't 631 00:29:36,090 --> 00:29:37,770 S2: know why they want to do it. Like, what will 632 00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:40,440 S2: it do exactly? I understand, like the general premise of 633 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,900 S2: the story, but I just thought at first it was 634 00:29:42,900 --> 00:29:47,820 S2: like hard to understand who and why these characters were working. 635 00:29:47,820 --> 00:29:50,190 S2: You know, like like I just thought I found that 636 00:29:50,190 --> 00:29:54,030 S2: hard to get over. Um, and then from there, I guess, 637 00:29:54,330 --> 00:29:56,220 S2: you know, it was interesting to like we work in 638 00:29:56,220 --> 00:29:58,980 S2: a media landscape currently that is changing and stretching and 639 00:29:58,980 --> 00:30:01,800 S2: trying to redefine itself and figure out new revenue streams 640 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,080 S2: as everything changes. Like around the world, this film is 641 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,260 S2: set in a slightly near future. I think one character 642 00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:09,150 S2: makes a comment about like, you know, whatever's left of 643 00:30:09,150 --> 00:30:11,130 S2: the New York Times. So we're trying to get an 644 00:30:11,130 --> 00:30:14,790 S2: idea of the landscape that they actually exist in. But yeah, 645 00:30:14,790 --> 00:30:18,330 S2: like is the point of journalism to, you know, completely 646 00:30:18,330 --> 00:30:21,570 S2: remove yourself and, and never have an opinion or, or 647 00:30:21,570 --> 00:30:24,000 S2: be these, these vessels for information. And that's like a 648 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,600 S2: very like rose colored glasses view. I think especially in, in, 649 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,150 S2: you know, this world or a near future. There's a 650 00:30:30,150 --> 00:30:33,000 S2: scene where Jesse, played by Cailee Spaeny, expresses concern about, 651 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,600 S2: you know, these prisoners of war. And Kirsten Dunst character says, like, 652 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,150 S2: you know, we don't ask questions. We record. So other 653 00:30:39,150 --> 00:30:41,340 S2: people ask. And I'm just like, man, we work with 654 00:30:41,340 --> 00:30:43,200 S2: journalists every day, and I just don't know if anyone 655 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,910 S2: ever speaks like that. Yeah. 656 00:30:45,540 --> 00:30:47,970 S1: Yeah, I, I mean, I agree with everything you're saying. 657 00:30:47,970 --> 00:30:50,670 S1: I think the bit that is unclear to me, but 658 00:30:50,670 --> 00:30:53,760 S1: it's sort of how I read the film is, I 659 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,620 S1: think was supposed to question that model of journalism that 660 00:30:58,620 --> 00:31:00,719 S1: is being espoused by someone like Kirsten Dunst. I think 661 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,000 S1: it's interesting to sort of look at each of these 662 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,060 S1: characters and what they're up to. Like Wagner Moura plays 663 00:31:06,060 --> 00:31:09,630 S1: this sort of like kind of stereotypical foreign correspondent guy. 664 00:31:09,630 --> 00:31:11,550 S1: You mentioned that hotel that they're all in that really 665 00:31:11,550 --> 00:31:14,250 S1: has vibes of, you know, when you see Western journalists 666 00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:17,010 S1: reporting from like African conflicts or Middle Eastern conflicts, they're 667 00:31:17,010 --> 00:31:19,320 S1: in this hotel. The the lights are sort of flashing 668 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,330 S1: on and off, but they're just getting drunk and partying. 669 00:31:21,330 --> 00:31:23,670 S1: And he's this guy who's addicted to adrenaline. He just 670 00:31:23,670 --> 00:31:25,110 S1: wants to be in the center of the action. He 671 00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:27,660 S1: thinks he's a hero. And the only reason Cailee Spaeny 672 00:31:27,660 --> 00:31:29,370 S1: ends up on this road trip with them, we find out, 673 00:31:29,370 --> 00:31:32,190 S1: is because he's trying to fuck her essentially. Right? And 674 00:31:32,190 --> 00:31:34,170 S1: you're like, okay, cool. That is definitely a model of 675 00:31:34,170 --> 00:31:38,880 S1: male foreign correspondent journalist that exists. And, you know, sure, 676 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,280 S1: he's brave, but I think there's also a bit there 677 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,020 S1: of like, this guy's kind of a piece of shit. 678 00:31:43,020 --> 00:31:47,850 S1: And maybe we should be reckoning with lionizing that sort 679 00:31:47,850 --> 00:31:50,100 S1: of model of journalists. Cailee Spaeny on sort of the 680 00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:52,830 S1: other spectrum. She's the newbie, and it's really interesting. She 681 00:31:52,830 --> 00:31:54,840 S1: talks about her family. They're back in Missouri. They're just 682 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,400 S1: living it up on a farm. They're pretending like this 683 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,400 S1: doesn't exist. And she wants to get involved and tell stories. 684 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,060 S1: But she's there with this, like old school film camera. 685 00:32:03,060 --> 00:32:06,060 S1: She's developing film, like in a refugee camp. It's sort 686 00:32:06,060 --> 00:32:08,400 S1: of like, okay, you're just a hobbyist. You're just here 687 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,610 S1: because you want to prove that you can like, you know, 688 00:32:11,610 --> 00:32:15,930 S1: leave your family behind and prove yourself as a photographer. 689 00:32:15,930 --> 00:32:17,910 S1: But you don't really seem to understand how any of 690 00:32:17,910 --> 00:32:21,000 S1: this works. And why the fuck would you be developing 691 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,910 S1: film on the run in this near future? It doesn't 692 00:32:23,910 --> 00:32:26,610 S1: really make sense to me. I think kissing Dunn's character 693 00:32:26,610 --> 00:32:29,550 S1: is the most interesting, in that you sort of see 694 00:32:29,550 --> 00:32:31,290 S1: her go on this arc where at the start of 695 00:32:31,290 --> 00:32:35,310 S1: the film, she's very much like, we don't involve ourselves. 696 00:32:35,310 --> 00:32:38,460 S1: Like we just report what goes on in other people, 697 00:32:38,460 --> 00:32:41,130 S1: make decisions about it, and you get these flashbacks to 698 00:32:41,130 --> 00:32:44,460 S1: her reporting from conflicts all around the world. And I 699 00:32:44,460 --> 00:32:48,000 S1: wonder whether, like throughout the movie, she's sort of realizing fuck, like, 700 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,270 S1: that's all bullshit. Like, I've reported on this stuff. Nothing's 701 00:32:51,270 --> 00:32:54,479 S1: gotten better. Conflict has gotten worse. I'm literally reporting on 702 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,969 S1: a war zone in my own country now, and you 703 00:32:56,970 --> 00:33:00,300 S1: start to see. Uh, through her face. Most of the time, 704 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:02,520 S1: her eyes, like Cousin Dunn's is acting, I think is 705 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,850 S1: so powerful in this film because it's not through dialogue. 706 00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:08,520 S1: It's more just through the way she observes and reacts 707 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,420 S1: to scenes. I think slowly starts to realize that her entire, 708 00:33:13,050 --> 00:33:16,200 S1: like ideological premise for operating, which is I don't involve 709 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,930 S1: myself in conflict. I take these powerful photos, I work 710 00:33:18,930 --> 00:33:21,600 S1: with reporters to tell stories, and that helps make the 711 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,460 S1: world a better place. I think by the end of 712 00:33:23,460 --> 00:33:26,250 S1: the movie, she realizes that's kind of nonsense. And I 713 00:33:26,250 --> 00:33:28,470 S1: think if the movie is trying to make that point, 714 00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:31,020 S1: I think that's really interesting. But I do think it's 715 00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:33,090 S1: not super clear. I think it's kind of confused. I 716 00:33:33,090 --> 00:33:36,270 S1: think it also wants us as audience members to like, 717 00:33:36,270 --> 00:33:39,300 S1: clap these journalists and say they're doing such a great job. 718 00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:42,690 S1: So ultimately, like, I think the movie has these interesting 719 00:33:42,690 --> 00:33:45,780 S1: ideas about the country and about journalism, but either like 720 00:33:45,780 --> 00:33:48,450 S1: pulls his punches or is a little bit muddled and 721 00:33:48,450 --> 00:33:51,060 S1: doesn't end up with a super coherent message. 722 00:33:51,060 --> 00:33:53,010 S2: Yeah, I think so too. And I think what, like 723 00:33:53,010 --> 00:33:56,250 S2: what troubles me is that Garland has been so like 724 00:33:56,250 --> 00:34:00,270 S2: active on the PR front, really like facing this question 725 00:34:00,270 --> 00:34:02,520 S2: down and being quite adamant in that like, yeah, you know, 726 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,490 S2: this this is the kind of journalism I respect. Yeah. 727 00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:07,260 S2: I got a quote here where it's like the kind 728 00:34:07,260 --> 00:34:09,960 S2: of journalism we need most. Reporting, which used to be 729 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,750 S2: the dominant form of journalism, had a deliberate removal of 730 00:34:12,750 --> 00:34:14,730 S2: a certain kind of bias. If you have a news 731 00:34:14,730 --> 00:34:17,010 S2: organization which has a strong bias, it's only likely to 732 00:34:17,010 --> 00:34:18,960 S2: be trusted to the choir to which it's preaching. 733 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,440 S7: And it also comes from within media organizations that have 734 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:28,770 S7: very deliberately and consciously abandoned a role of journalism as 735 00:34:28,770 --> 00:34:32,970 S7: something without bias. Now you it may be impossible to 736 00:34:32,969 --> 00:34:35,910 S7: be without bias, but there is a sliding scale, and 737 00:34:35,910 --> 00:34:40,290 S7: institutions have chosen to go way down the sliding scale 738 00:34:40,290 --> 00:34:45,210 S7: to a point. They are essentially propaganda machines. Not not 739 00:34:45,210 --> 00:34:47,070 S7: really journalists anymore. So they're not. 740 00:34:47,219 --> 00:34:49,560 S2: Obviously, that's a valid criticism. And, you know, there's so 741 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,649 S2: much chat these days in, in the media landscape about like, 742 00:34:52,650 --> 00:34:54,299 S2: do you just talk to an echo chamber and all 743 00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:56,430 S2: this other stuff? But for him to kind of be like, 744 00:34:56,430 --> 00:34:58,590 S2: oh yeah. So these, you know, the only true journalism, 745 00:34:58,590 --> 00:35:01,200 S2: and especially when you're reporting on these types of conflicts, 746 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,720 S2: is something that removes any form of bias or any 747 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,630 S2: form of meaning or any form of, I guess, critique 748 00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:08,700 S2: to try and understand what is happening. I just don't 749 00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:11,640 S2: know if that's a reflection of modern journalism, no matter 750 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,740 S2: where you land on the spectrum. And I think that's 751 00:35:13,739 --> 00:35:15,689 S2: what a lot of people and, you know, I guess 752 00:35:15,690 --> 00:35:17,370 S2: the risk you run when you write a film about 753 00:35:17,370 --> 00:35:19,410 S2: journalists is that journalists are going to critique the fuck 754 00:35:19,410 --> 00:35:21,779 S2: out of it. But like a lot of people do 755 00:35:21,780 --> 00:35:24,000 S2: have this issue where it's like, ah, it's kind of 756 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,970 S2: a fantasy land that he's living in where you know, oh, 757 00:35:26,969 --> 00:35:28,500 S2: this is what it should be like. And it's like, well, 758 00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:29,129 S2: it's not. 759 00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:32,250 S1: Yeah. And I think what what's missing from the movie 760 00:35:32,250 --> 00:35:33,930 S1: and maybe this is the point as well, is like, no, 761 00:35:33,930 --> 00:35:37,770 S1: there's no like journalism happens in two phases, right? There's 762 00:35:37,770 --> 00:35:41,040 S1: the art of making the story or telling the story, 763 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,259 S1: getting the story. And then there's the way it's received 764 00:35:43,260 --> 00:35:45,810 S1: by the audience, right. And the impact or whatever after that. 765 00:35:45,810 --> 00:35:47,339 S1: And you never see that second half. You never see 766 00:35:47,340 --> 00:35:50,160 S1: anyone read a newspaper or read a story or see 767 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,830 S1: a photo. In fact, these journalists go around this country 768 00:35:52,830 --> 00:35:55,319 S1: and they're treated with contempt. And maybe that's the point. 769 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,680 S1: It's like, this is an America where everyone stopped reading journalism. 770 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,560 S1: So we're all divided. But if the point is like 771 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,170 S1: we just need to, like, read those long form articles 772 00:36:04,170 --> 00:36:05,940 S1: in The New York Times about how America has become 773 00:36:05,940 --> 00:36:08,549 S1: too uncivil. And if only we did that, we'd all 774 00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:11,040 S1: be in a better place. That's a pretty limp and 775 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,880 S1: hollow message that I don't think is resonant with some 776 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,380 S1: of the other ideas that the film grapples with around journalism. 777 00:36:19,380 --> 00:36:21,779 S1: So I agree with you. Like I read those interviews 778 00:36:21,780 --> 00:36:24,150 S1: and I'm like, I hate what you're saying, brother, but like, 779 00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:27,000 S1: I don't feel like your movie's making that point. I mean, 780 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,950 S1: I look, I think the movie is good and I 781 00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:31,050 S1: think it's definitely worth watching, and it's really fun and 782 00:36:31,050 --> 00:36:34,650 S1: interesting to talk about these ideas around it, but I yeah, 783 00:36:34,650 --> 00:36:38,700 S1: it's sort of like falls short of being like a 784 00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:41,520 S1: children of men, because it doesn't seem to be super 785 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,890 S1: clear on how you're supposed to feel at the end. 786 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,800 S2: Yeah. And that's why I think, like, I loved it 787 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,500 S2: and I enjoyed it as like an A24 blockbuster. Like 788 00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:51,690 S2: this is their version of Independence Day. I read a 789 00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:53,580 S2: quote somewhere that was like, this is a Hollywood film, 790 00:36:53,580 --> 00:36:54,899 S2: not a Cannes film. It's a good point. 791 00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:56,160 S1: It's a good point. They spend a lot of money. 792 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:57,810 S1: They're hoping to make a lot of money. It's the 793 00:36:57,810 --> 00:37:00,540 S1: biggest opening weekend. A24 so that's a really good point. Yeah. 794 00:37:00,540 --> 00:37:02,700 S2: And like this is exactly you know, and it's funny 795 00:37:02,790 --> 00:37:05,069 S2: I guess this could be a conversation for a different day. Um, 796 00:37:05,070 --> 00:37:07,380 S2: on my A24 pod. But it's also it is funny 797 00:37:07,380 --> 00:37:10,529 S2: looking at this movie in the context of A24's development 798 00:37:10,530 --> 00:37:13,169 S2: over the last two years from kind of like fringe 799 00:37:13,170 --> 00:37:16,980 S2: cool Company that was making like a few films and 800 00:37:16,980 --> 00:37:19,649 S2: was this like arthouse production company that you would name 801 00:37:19,650 --> 00:37:22,020 S2: check if you wanted to sound in and then, you know, 802 00:37:22,020 --> 00:37:24,000 S2: they won a bunch of Oscars there now, like one 803 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,190 S2: of the hottest production companies in town, and obviously they're 804 00:37:26,190 --> 00:37:28,799 S2: making bigger and better things. They make more money. Their 805 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,350 S2: profit stream is enormous. And so, like, will that change 806 00:37:31,350 --> 00:37:34,170 S2: the DNA of A24 and by extension, the type of 807 00:37:34,170 --> 00:37:36,630 S2: films they make? Well, Civil War could be proof that 808 00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:37,290 S2: it is. 809 00:37:37,290 --> 00:37:38,760 S1: That's a really good point. Is there anything else you 810 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,310 S1: want to say about the film, about the performances? Well, like. 811 00:37:41,310 --> 00:37:43,259 S2: Kirsten Dunst obviously was the center of this film, but 812 00:37:43,260 --> 00:37:45,210 S2: my God, man, you kind of touched it before. Like 813 00:37:45,210 --> 00:37:47,820 S2: the facial acting like no one has ever looked more 814 00:37:47,820 --> 00:37:50,160 S2: fed up on film than Kiss and Dance's character Lee 815 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,839 S2: in this movie. Like, I just feel like they did 816 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,300 S2: it really well. She looked exhausted. She looked like someone 817 00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:56,610 S2: that was living in a civil war. I just thought 818 00:37:56,610 --> 00:37:59,030 S2: she was incredible. There's one. Senior like she she kind 819 00:37:59,030 --> 00:38:01,010 S2: of spends much of the film in, like, very practical, 820 00:38:01,010 --> 00:38:04,070 S2: like utilitarian clothes, like, you know, cargo pants and a 821 00:38:04,070 --> 00:38:06,860 S2: black shirt, whatever. Yeah. Um, and there's one scene in 822 00:38:06,860 --> 00:38:08,390 S2: the film when they visit this town that's kind of, like, 823 00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:10,880 S2: weirdly untouched by everything that's going on, and, and they 824 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,830 S2: go into a store and she tries on this dress, 825 00:38:12,830 --> 00:38:15,470 S2: and Kaylee spent his character kind of like, looks at 826 00:38:15,469 --> 00:38:17,239 S2: her and asked to take a photo. And it's quite 827 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,310 S2: it is it's quite moving because it's like, wow, you know, 828 00:38:19,310 --> 00:38:22,280 S2: she sees herself as a different version or a version 829 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,890 S2: she used to be. I just thought Kirsten Dunst from 830 00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:26,900 S2: everything from the way she delivered lines. So the way 831 00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:29,390 S2: she looked and the way she conveyed, you know what 832 00:38:29,390 --> 00:38:31,100 S2: that look was supposed to tell us? It was an 833 00:38:31,100 --> 00:38:33,259 S2: incredible performance from her. I thought, I agree. 834 00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:34,760 S1: Yeah, not much more to add other than I think 835 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,799 S1: she's really going for it. And I think the other 836 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,260 S1: performances are fine. Like there's not like bad acting in this, 837 00:38:39,260 --> 00:38:42,500 S1: but she's operating I think on another level a very, very, 838 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:55,169 S1: very high level. Well, Tom, as you pointed out to me, 839 00:38:55,170 --> 00:38:58,590 S1: one of the greatest ever attempts to segue on this podcast, 840 00:38:58,590 --> 00:39:01,410 S1: that kiss and dance, you know, in the early 2000 841 00:39:01,530 --> 00:39:06,120 S1: went from starring in Spider-Man and Spider-Man two to a 842 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,890 S1: tennis film called Wimbledon. There's another actress who's followed a 843 00:39:10,890 --> 00:39:14,730 S1: very similar career path, at least in a certain phase 844 00:39:14,730 --> 00:39:18,600 S1: of their career. Zendaya has gone from starring in three 845 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:23,729 S1: Spider-Man films to now featuring in her own tennis film challenges. 846 00:39:24,530 --> 00:39:25,340 S1: Can we pull that off? 847 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,319 S2: Uh, look, I think we did. And can I just 848 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,180 S2: blow your mind? I know I love to blow your mind. Anyway. 849 00:39:30,180 --> 00:39:32,190 S2: Can I blow your mind once more? Yeah. You can. 850 00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:35,100 S2: What superhero film was Emma Stone in? 851 00:39:36,290 --> 00:39:39,490 S1: Whoa! Oh, she was also in Spider-Man. She was in 852 00:39:39,489 --> 00:39:41,230 S1: the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man, right? 853 00:39:41,260 --> 00:39:42,850 S2: And has she been in a tennis film? 854 00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:45,580 S1: She has been in attendance. Film. Battle of the sexes. 855 00:39:45,580 --> 00:39:46,390 S2: Yes. 856 00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:47,560 S1: Whoa. 857 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,480 S2: So this is like a weird. I don't know what's 858 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:50,680 S2: going on. I mean, I don't know what's going on 859 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,140 S2: in Hollywood generally, but there's something there's there is a 860 00:39:53,140 --> 00:39:54,460 S2: strange connection between signing and. 861 00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:57,759 S1: Spider-Man to tennis film pipeline. There you go. 862 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,460 S2: Correct. So that's a fun intro to what is one 863 00:40:00,460 --> 00:40:01,450 S2: of the best films of the year. 864 00:40:02,170 --> 00:40:04,900 S1: Let's talk about challenges. Let's explain to people what this 865 00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:05,529 S1: movie is about. 866 00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:10,960 S8: Toshi Duncan. She's gonna turn a whole family into millionaires 867 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,739 S8: to have a fashion line, a foundation. 868 00:40:16,030 --> 00:40:19,629 S9: Come on. You were incredible today. Thank you. I mean, 869 00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:22,210 S9: it wasn't even like tennis. It was an entirely different game. 870 00:40:26,010 --> 00:40:27,660 S10: Hey, come hang out with us later. 871 00:40:27,690 --> 00:40:30,569 S11: Let me come tuck you in. No, you just keep talking. 872 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:31,919 S12: No, no, no. Come on. 873 00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:38,190 S1: Directed by Luca Guadagnino, who attracted international acclaim, obviously for 874 00:40:38,190 --> 00:40:40,469 S1: Call Me By Your Name. You followed it up with 875 00:40:40,469 --> 00:40:43,170 S1: the remake of Suspiria, and I think the little scene, 876 00:40:43,170 --> 00:40:47,550 S1: but very, very good. Timothee Chalamet. Cannibal film bones and all, 877 00:40:47,550 --> 00:40:50,400 S1: which is very fun to say out loud. Interestingly, it 878 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,670 S1: was written by the husband of Celine Sung, who was 879 00:40:53,670 --> 00:40:57,150 S1: nominated for the Oscar for Past Lives Challenges. I guess 880 00:40:57,150 --> 00:41:00,299 S1: it's like a sexy dramedy you'd call it. Uh, the 881 00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:02,790 S1: film begins in the middle of a tennis match between 882 00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:05,760 S1: two characters, played by Mike Feist and Josh O'Connor. Feis 883 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,210 S1: character is an extremely successful athlete, but he's hit a 884 00:41:09,210 --> 00:41:11,460 S1: bit of a rough patch, so he's been convinced by 885 00:41:11,460 --> 00:41:13,980 S1: his wife and coach, played by Zendaya, to enter this 886 00:41:13,980 --> 00:41:16,920 S1: small tournament in upstate New York, where he plays the 887 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,450 S1: final against O'Connor's character as they're playing tennis. We flashback 888 00:41:21,450 --> 00:41:24,450 S1: to this period where they were teenagers, very, very close friends. 889 00:41:24,450 --> 00:41:27,960 S1: They were doubles partners there meets India at a fun 890 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,200 S1: at a dance party at this cool little mansion. She's 891 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,320 S1: a rising tennis star herself. They're obviously infatuated with her 892 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,649 S1: because she's very, very, very gorgeous. And that kicks off 893 00:41:37,650 --> 00:41:41,010 S1: a competition. Over the next decade, we see their relationships 894 00:41:41,010 --> 00:41:43,680 S1: with each other and with Zendaya, wax and wane, and 895 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,290 S1: it's all set against this backdrop of this tennis match 896 00:41:46,290 --> 00:41:50,130 S1: that we keep cutting to. Challenges. Thomas, what did you think? 897 00:41:50,130 --> 00:41:51,120 S1: Sexiest film of the year? 898 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,109 S2: Uh, without doubt. I love tennis and I love new threesomes. 899 00:41:55,110 --> 00:41:59,219 S2: This was a this was amazing. Uh, like, I thought 900 00:41:59,310 --> 00:42:01,410 S2: I was so excited for challenges. So the film was 901 00:42:01,410 --> 00:42:03,600 S2: supposed to open the Venice Film Festival last year, and 902 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,509 S2: they pulled it because of the actors strike. And that 903 00:42:06,510 --> 00:42:07,950 S2: makes a lot of sense. I think when you watch 904 00:42:07,950 --> 00:42:11,070 S2: the film, because you cannot promote this film without those three. 905 00:42:11,070 --> 00:42:15,060 S1: Stars, those three on red carpets taking photos, you know? 906 00:42:15,060 --> 00:42:17,250 S2: Yeah, 100%. Like I went to the premiere in Sydney, 907 00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:19,260 S2: I think it was the world premiere. And, you know, 908 00:42:19,260 --> 00:42:21,420 S2: like it was at the State Theater. It was like 909 00:42:21,420 --> 00:42:24,420 S2: an old school premiere, and it took forever to get in. 910 00:42:24,690 --> 00:42:26,969 S2: There was lots of things that made me be like, oh, 911 00:42:26,969 --> 00:42:29,549 S2: this is a fucking punish. Then the minute those three 912 00:42:29,550 --> 00:42:32,310 S2: walked on stage, it was like all washed away. The 913 00:42:32,310 --> 00:42:35,700 S2: chemistry and charisma and also the fact that these are 914 00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:38,969 S2: three actors, kind of like on the up. It hinged 915 00:42:38,969 --> 00:42:41,520 S2: on their performances, and it makes sense that, you know, 916 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,800 S2: the promo tour for challenges, I think is almost as 917 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,899 S2: big as the film now. Like, you can't scroll your 918 00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:48,959 S2: Instagram without seeing, like, Zendaya in Paris wearing a like 919 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,580 S2: dress made out of tennis balls or whatever. She's doing, the. 920 00:42:50,580 --> 00:42:52,980 S1: Sort of Margot Robbie Barbie thing where she's dressing kind 921 00:42:52,980 --> 00:42:54,600 S1: of as the character from the film. 922 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,650 S2: 100%. But aside from my own personal investment in threesomes 923 00:42:58,650 --> 00:43:01,440 S2: and tennis, I thought it was like a great film. Um, 924 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:02,790 S2: once again, I'm going to throw to throw to some 925 00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:05,129 S2: other friends in the industry. This is Empire magazine. They're 926 00:43:05,130 --> 00:43:09,719 S2: headline horny, hungry, phenomenally exciting filmmaking. Uh, that is challenges 927 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,410 S2: to me. Everyone in this movie is sexier than Paul Atreides, bro. 928 00:43:13,410 --> 00:43:17,130 S2: I'm sorry. Uh, and I just. I just thought they 929 00:43:17,130 --> 00:43:21,480 S2: did so many things. Well, that it was aiming to do, like, 930 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,620 S2: was this an art? Kind of like Lucasfilm? Yes. Was 931 00:43:25,620 --> 00:43:28,200 S2: this also a worthy entrant into the kind of sports 932 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:33,270 S2: film canon? Yes. Uh, was this an interesting examination of 933 00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:37,140 S2: desire and drive and how those things impact relationships? Yes. 934 00:43:37,140 --> 00:43:40,110 S2: Was it also a great snapshot of how, like, friendship 935 00:43:40,110 --> 00:43:42,600 S2: changes over time and how, you know, the competitive edge 936 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,000 S2: that sometimes makes your youth so illuminating is great and 937 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,370 S2: then becomes like a cancer as you get older. Yes. Uh, 938 00:43:47,370 --> 00:43:50,160 S2: it ticked everything. And also Zendaya is very hot. 939 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,560 S1: I love that review. I was worried about how we 940 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,510 S1: would talk about this movie without sort of being sent 941 00:43:54,510 --> 00:43:57,810 S1: to jail for, um, like, I think it's I think 942 00:43:57,810 --> 00:44:00,030 S1: it's important to just say that, you know, there's been 943 00:44:00,030 --> 00:44:03,090 S1: this discourse over the last few years that film makers 944 00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:06,690 S1: studios have strayed away from, like, eroticism and and just 945 00:44:06,690 --> 00:44:10,680 S1: like sex on screen. Luca, I guess, hasn't really strayed 946 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,960 S1: away from that as much. But he is embracing. This 947 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:17,879 S1: movie is shot in a way, to make you think 948 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,350 S1: about little else than muscle and body and toned bodies 949 00:44:22,350 --> 00:44:25,170 S1: and sex and desire. So if we talk a bit 950 00:44:25,170 --> 00:44:27,930 S1: about that, it's not just because we're freaks. Like, that 951 00:44:27,930 --> 00:44:31,020 S1: is the point of this movie. It is about different 952 00:44:31,020 --> 00:44:35,640 S1: relationship structures, different ways that desire manifests, and sort of the, 953 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,790 S1: I guess, the obvious metaphor of relationships through a tennis match. 954 00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:41,130 S1: I love tennis as well. I love the Australian Open. 955 00:44:41,130 --> 00:44:44,400 S1: It's one of my favorite events on the calendar every year. 956 00:44:44,430 --> 00:44:46,530 S1: I loved a lot of the way that this movie 957 00:44:46,530 --> 00:44:48,720 S1: made you just feel like you were part of like 958 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,630 S1: a tennis circuit without telling you, like just showing you 959 00:44:51,630 --> 00:44:54,719 S1: the way that these plays move throughout that world. I 960 00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,080 S1: thought Zendaya was astonishing and all the performances were really good, 961 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,960 S1: but Sunday is doing something special like particularly because this 962 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,590 S1: movie is set over, I guess like 12 or 13 years, 963 00:45:04,590 --> 00:45:07,319 S1: the way that the characters play themselves as a bit 964 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,380 S1: more vulnerable and naive when they're younger. And then in 965 00:45:10,380 --> 00:45:12,270 S1: the kind of modern day era of the film, the 966 00:45:12,270 --> 00:45:14,969 S1: contemporary part. So there's like a mother and in a 967 00:45:14,969 --> 00:45:17,130 S1: very different phase of her life and her ability to 968 00:45:17,130 --> 00:45:20,160 S1: do both of those things in very, very interesting ways, 969 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,800 S1: I thought was was astonishing. I liked a lot of 970 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,850 S1: this movie, man, I really enjoy. I thought the framing 971 00:45:25,850 --> 00:45:29,750 S1: device of that tennis match being this metaphor for dynamics 972 00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:32,930 S1: in relationships, you know, serve, volley, underhand backhand. These are 973 00:45:32,930 --> 00:45:37,340 S1: all words we use to describe friendships, relationships, romance, just 974 00:45:37,340 --> 00:45:39,950 S1: the way that we talk and communicate to one another. 975 00:45:39,980 --> 00:45:41,780 S1: The sexual tension between the three of them and the 976 00:45:41,780 --> 00:45:45,680 S1: desire for control. I think that Zendaya's character has. It's 977 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,110 S1: all very good. But I mean, that is not even 978 00:45:48,110 --> 00:45:50,660 S1: like a criticism, I guess, because the more I've thought 979 00:45:50,660 --> 00:45:53,210 S1: about the film since leaving it, the more I've been 980 00:45:53,210 --> 00:45:56,480 S1: satisfied by what it served up, pardon the pun. I 981 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,819 S1: just had this feeling throughout. I was waiting for like 982 00:45:58,820 --> 00:46:01,910 S1: a penny to drop. You know, the movie isn't about 983 00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:04,310 S1: a lot, and that's fine. And it's, you know, it's 984 00:46:04,310 --> 00:46:07,970 S1: fundamentally just basically using tennis to talk about sex in 985 00:46:07,969 --> 00:46:12,280 S1: the way that we interact. It felt like at moments 986 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,400 S1: it was edging to something closer again. Sorry for the pun. 987 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,050 S2: There was a fair bit of edging going on in 988 00:46:17,050 --> 00:46:17,560 S2: this environment. 989 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:23,000 S1: And to me it didn't seem like it landed. Anything bigger. 990 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,730 S1: But then, as I've thought about it, like I said, 991 00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:28,250 S1: it's a bit of a slight film. That's fine. Like 992 00:46:28,250 --> 00:46:30,650 S1: that's what this movie was about. It was hot. It 993 00:46:30,650 --> 00:46:34,790 S1: was funny at moments. It told a discrete story, and 994 00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:36,440 S1: that's good. And it did in a really good way. 995 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,290 S1: And maybe it's just like after watching Civil War, I 996 00:46:39,290 --> 00:46:41,509 S1: was like, what does challenges have to say about the 997 00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:44,060 S1: state of modern America? Not a lot. And that's fine, 998 00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:45,470 S1: you know. Does that make sense? Yeah. 999 00:46:45,469 --> 00:46:47,450 S2: No, fully. And that's the thing. It's not a film 1000 00:46:47,450 --> 00:46:50,450 S2: that is like really about anything. It's just about these 1001 00:46:50,450 --> 00:46:54,020 S2: three characters and, you know, this like portion of their lives. 1002 00:46:54,020 --> 00:46:57,380 S2: The whole movie is about especially Zendaya, who plays Tashi. 1003 00:46:57,380 --> 00:46:59,029 S2: Her character, you know, was like kind of this meant 1004 00:46:59,030 --> 00:47:00,770 S2: to be the next big thing and then suffers an 1005 00:47:00,770 --> 00:47:03,560 S2: injury and kind of becomes a top coach with her husband. 1006 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,200 S2: But like she we know about her. She all she 1007 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,540 S2: cares about is like winning and like being good. It 1008 00:47:08,540 --> 00:47:10,520 S2: doesn't matter. Like how you get there or what happens 1009 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:11,690 S2: or what you take away from it. It's just like 1010 00:47:11,690 --> 00:47:13,819 S2: the end result. And I kind of think that's what 1011 00:47:13,820 --> 00:47:16,339 S2: the film is doing. Like, it doesn't matter if, you know, 1012 00:47:16,340 --> 00:47:19,040 S2: you take home something. It's just like, was this good? Yes. 1013 00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,440 S2: Like I think the film is really good and and 1014 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,049 S2: all the, all the parts work together and you don't 1015 00:47:24,050 --> 00:47:25,850 S2: need to walk out of the cinema and be like, oh, like, 1016 00:47:25,850 --> 00:47:27,770 S2: what did we learn from that? Like, that's it was 1017 00:47:27,770 --> 00:47:32,510 S2: just like this visual, like sexual experience that, that people 1018 00:47:32,510 --> 00:47:34,700 S2: seem to really be enjoying. And and on top of that, 1019 00:47:34,700 --> 00:47:36,170 S2: I do think there is like lots of stuff in 1020 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,770 S2: there to take away. And but yeah, I don't know 1021 00:47:39,770 --> 00:47:42,980 S2: that it needs to be a film that teaches you 1022 00:47:42,980 --> 00:47:45,320 S2: anything or has any moments that convey a broader message about, 1023 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,650 S2: I don't know, whatever contemporary life. It's just this interesting 1024 00:47:48,650 --> 00:47:51,710 S2: snapshot of three characters who exist in a world that is, 1025 00:47:51,710 --> 00:47:53,660 S2: you know, painted beautifully by Luke. Yeah. 1026 00:47:53,660 --> 00:47:55,819 S1: One of the things that surprised me about the film 1027 00:47:55,820 --> 00:47:57,650 S1: and the movie is just out this week, so I 1028 00:47:57,650 --> 00:48:00,860 S1: don't want to delve into spoiler territory with specific scenes, 1029 00:48:00,860 --> 00:48:03,830 S1: but the marketing around the film and certainly the trailer 1030 00:48:03,830 --> 00:48:07,310 S1: make you think it's about this love triangle, right? Between 1031 00:48:07,310 --> 00:48:10,520 S1: Josh O'Connor, Mike Fisons and and certainly that is an 1032 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,219 S1: element to it. One of the things that really surprised 1033 00:48:13,219 --> 00:48:15,410 S1: me in a really good way is how this movie 1034 00:48:15,410 --> 00:48:19,520 S1: is also fundamentally about the relationship between Feist and O'Connor, 1035 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,580 S1: like from their friendship, like the threesome scene that is 1036 00:48:22,580 --> 00:48:25,279 S1: teased in the trailer. I don't want to give it away, 1037 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,210 S1: but like, it goes in an interesting direction that then 1038 00:48:29,210 --> 00:48:33,080 S1: becomes part of the DNA of the rest of the movie. 1039 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:37,190 S1: And like the sexual tension between those two guys throughout 1040 00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:40,460 S1: the film is done extraordinarily like it's really, really interesting. 1041 00:48:40,460 --> 00:48:43,100 S1: And at lots of moments, India becomes sort of like 1042 00:48:43,100 --> 00:48:46,610 S1: a puppetmaster. She's in there, but she's sort of pulling 1043 00:48:46,610 --> 00:48:48,620 S1: these guys away from each other, pushing them together at 1044 00:48:48,620 --> 00:48:52,190 S1: certain moments. I really enjoyed that, that dynamic, that aspect 1045 00:48:52,190 --> 00:48:52,790 S1: of the film. 1046 00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:55,160 S2: Yeah, and that was so funny. Like seeing it in 1047 00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,259 S2: the cinema with like a really jazzed audience at the 1048 00:48:57,260 --> 00:49:00,410 S2: premiere that, as you said, that threesome scene where they're 1049 00:49:00,410 --> 00:49:01,670 S2: kind of sitting on the bed, it's like on a 1050 00:49:01,670 --> 00:49:03,529 S2: lot of the posters, and that makes it a big 1051 00:49:03,530 --> 00:49:05,180 S2: part of the trailer. Like people are aware of that 1052 00:49:05,180 --> 00:49:08,120 S2: scene and the direction that it ends up going was 1053 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,089 S2: such a big moment in the cinema. Like, yeah, you know, 1054 00:49:11,090 --> 00:49:14,810 S2: like people reacting and like laughing and clapping and stuff 1055 00:49:14,810 --> 00:49:17,509 S2: like it was, it was really interesting to see. And 1056 00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:19,219 S2: I mean, look, it's a surprise to no one that 1057 00:49:19,219 --> 00:49:21,560 S2: watches Lucas films that there are, you know, like kind 1058 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,400 S2: of these, like homosexual queer undertones. But I thought when 1059 00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,239 S2: you insert that like masculinity and the, like, physicality of 1060 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,850 S2: the tennis circuit and especially because, you know, I think 1061 00:49:31,850 --> 00:49:33,740 S2: like we've both we're both into tennis and these are 1062 00:49:33,739 --> 00:49:36,379 S2: people that spend like, you know, so much time on 1063 00:49:36,380 --> 00:49:39,020 S2: tour together. They're working out together. They're in the showers, 1064 00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:41,390 S2: they're having steams. Like there's a really, you know, good 1065 00:49:41,390 --> 00:49:44,719 S2: steam scene between the two male leads, like it's all 1066 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:46,280 S2: part of the world. Like, you know, no one can 1067 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,290 S2: pretend that it's not. And I just thought he did 1068 00:49:48,290 --> 00:49:51,050 S2: such a good job of exploring that. And yeah, it 1069 00:49:51,050 --> 00:49:53,270 S2: then does become like I must admit, when I very 1070 00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:55,220 S2: first saw the challenges trailer like way back before the 1071 00:49:55,219 --> 00:49:58,070 S2: writers strike, I was like, oh my god, sexy threesome 1072 00:49:58,070 --> 00:50:00,200 S2: movie with Zendaya. This is going to be like insane. 1073 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,390 S2: And then the end result is very different. But I 1074 00:50:02,390 --> 00:50:04,129 S2: enjoyed it like even more than I thought I would. 1075 00:50:04,310 --> 00:50:07,910 S1: Let's talk about the sex for a second, because for 1076 00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:10,970 S1: a movie that is definitely sexy and erotic, I'm saying 1077 00:50:10,969 --> 00:50:13,520 S1: that would so much. So I prefaced it with the 1078 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,860 S1: thing because it is a big part of the movie 1079 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,500 S1: and everyone like there's a lot of conversation about this 1080 00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:21,259 S1: being like the return of the erotic thriller. There's actually 1081 00:50:21,260 --> 00:50:24,440 S1: not that many or if any, like explicit sex scenes, like, 1082 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,810 S1: you see the prelude to sex and you sort of 1083 00:50:26,810 --> 00:50:28,820 S1: see the aftermath of sex. And I think part of 1084 00:50:28,820 --> 00:50:31,279 S1: that is deliberate, because I think one of the things 1085 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,440 S1: Luke is trying to do is keep the kind of 1086 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:37,610 S1: fornicating on the tennis court, like the real sweaty, grunting 1087 00:50:37,610 --> 00:50:39,860 S1: action is on the court. And what you see off 1088 00:50:39,860 --> 00:50:43,969 S1: the court is the cerebral aftermath or prelude to these 1089 00:50:43,969 --> 00:50:46,910 S1: sorts of events. I think that's really interesting, but it 1090 00:50:46,910 --> 00:50:48,799 S1: is at the same time, kind of fascinating that a 1091 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,410 S1: movie that everyone is discussing as being the sexiest film 1092 00:50:51,410 --> 00:50:55,550 S1: of the year doesn't really show explicit sex. And maybe 1093 00:50:55,550 --> 00:50:58,580 S1: that's just, you know, there's a lot of conversation around 1094 00:50:58,580 --> 00:51:01,430 S1: intimacy coordinators and just sex scenes by their very nature, 1095 00:51:01,430 --> 00:51:05,120 S1: being kind of exploitative. Zendaya was a producer on this film. 1096 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,300 S1: She also, you know, was on euphoria, which has lots 1097 00:51:08,300 --> 00:51:12,320 S1: of very well known, like complaints from from actors about 1098 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,089 S1: the way that sex was used. So I wonder whether 1099 00:51:14,090 --> 00:51:17,509 S1: it's a very deliberate attempt behind the scenes to make 1100 00:51:17,510 --> 00:51:21,410 S1: a film feel sexy without needing to put actors in a. 1101 00:51:21,980 --> 00:51:25,250 S1: Where they seem to be increasingly uncomfortable actually portraying sex 1102 00:51:25,250 --> 00:51:27,860 S1: on film. Did that stand out to you at all, 1103 00:51:27,860 --> 00:51:30,320 S1: or am I just a weird horny freak who who 1104 00:51:30,739 --> 00:51:31,850 S1: missed something on screen? 1105 00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:34,010 S2: I mean, I do think you are a weird horny freak, 1106 00:51:34,010 --> 00:51:36,410 S2: but that's unrelated to this conversation. No, but I think 1107 00:51:36,410 --> 00:51:38,330 S2: it all comes down to the way in which it's shot. 1108 00:51:38,330 --> 00:51:40,339 S2: And even if you rewatch Call Me By Your Name, 1109 00:51:40,340 --> 00:51:43,850 S2: obviously there are some very, like, horny graphic fruit scenes. 1110 00:51:43,850 --> 00:51:46,250 S2: But in terms of like the actual amount of like sex, 1111 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,129 S2: carnal sex in that film, it's not like the, you know, 1112 00:51:49,130 --> 00:51:53,780 S2: like Timothy and the what's a cannibals name, Armie Hammer. 1113 00:51:54,620 --> 00:51:56,480 S2: It's not like they're like fucking all the time and stuff. 1114 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,040 S2: And like, it's not. 1115 00:51:58,460 --> 00:51:59,839 S1: Hannibal, we should say, just in case. 1116 00:51:59,870 --> 00:52:02,900 S2: Yes, alleged the alleged cannibal. I imagine that being your 1117 00:52:02,900 --> 00:52:06,230 S2: fucking Instagram bar anyway. But like, the amount of, like, 1118 00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:09,290 S2: explicit sex is, is not the point. I think it's 1119 00:52:09,290 --> 00:52:11,960 S2: the way in which Luca ties it all together. So 1120 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,020 S2: you are from the from the very start. You can 1121 00:52:15,020 --> 00:52:17,660 S2: tell when they first like lay eyes on Zendaya. There 1122 00:52:17,660 --> 00:52:20,990 S2: is this tension and chemistry that is just like like 1123 00:52:20,989 --> 00:52:24,109 S2: informing the entire film. And so you don't need to 1124 00:52:24,110 --> 00:52:27,830 S2: literally see, you know, like Zendaya and her husband having 1125 00:52:27,830 --> 00:52:30,860 S2: sex or her having sex with Josh O'Connor's character or 1126 00:52:30,860 --> 00:52:33,740 S2: the two men, you know, kind of consummating this intense 1127 00:52:33,739 --> 00:52:36,710 S2: chemistry that is like buzzing the entire time because so 1128 00:52:36,710 --> 00:52:38,390 S2: much of it is done for you in, like, you know, 1129 00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:40,730 S2: the lingering looks or, you know, the way it's shot 1130 00:52:40,730 --> 00:52:44,060 S2: is so like it feels like fucking Benny Benassi satisfaction 1131 00:52:44,060 --> 00:52:44,509 S2: half the time. 1132 00:52:45,860 --> 00:52:50,480 S1: That's good. Um. Top three threesomes in film. My mom 1133 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,150 S1: listens to this podcast. Let's not go down that path, okay? 1134 00:52:53,390 --> 00:52:54,200 S2: I'll send them to you. That. 1135 00:52:54,590 --> 00:52:57,649 S1: Uh, I want to talk about the music, uh, in 1136 00:52:57,650 --> 00:52:59,000 S1: this film for a second. I think there's two different 1137 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,820 S1: bits to it. I think, um, the soundtrack has some 1138 00:53:01,820 --> 00:53:05,150 S1: really fun needle drops. I love when, like, directors are 1139 00:53:05,150 --> 00:53:06,980 S1: just like, I want a party scene in the mid 1140 00:53:06,980 --> 00:53:09,739 S1: to late 2000 that just, like, hits. You know, a 1141 00:53:09,739 --> 00:53:13,250 S1: pleasure center in our brain is a great Nelly. Hot 1142 00:53:13,250 --> 00:53:15,980 S1: in here. Needle drop, Blu Cantrell hit em up style. 1143 00:53:15,980 --> 00:53:18,770 S1: Both those songs sort of underscore interesting moments of the 1144 00:53:18,770 --> 00:53:21,020 S1: film as well, but most of the, uh, the score 1145 00:53:21,020 --> 00:53:24,140 S1: of this film is done by Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross. 1146 00:53:24,140 --> 00:53:26,330 S1: I mean, these guys are amazing. They've been killing it 1147 00:53:26,330 --> 00:53:29,120 S1: since The Social Network and Gone Girl through to killer, 1148 00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,910 S1: and they did the Bones and All soundtrack as well. 1149 00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:34,520 S1: I just don't think they've missed. I thought the soundtrack 1150 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,040 S1: was great. I thought the way it was used to 1151 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,730 S1: score the Tennesseans was fun. It's propulsive. It's like this 1152 00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:44,299 S1: 80s techno sort of a vibe. But then Luca does 1153 00:53:44,300 --> 00:53:48,920 S1: this interesting thing where he brings those tracks that normally 1154 00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,590 S1: you just leave on in an action sequence, or in 1155 00:53:51,590 --> 00:53:53,840 S1: this case, the sport matches and he brings them in 1156 00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,080 S1: for these intimate dialogue scenes. And I guess maybe what 1157 00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,900 S1: he's trying to say is like these verbal sparring matches 1158 00:53:59,900 --> 00:54:01,970 S1: that partners have, it's just like tennis. So I'm going 1159 00:54:01,969 --> 00:54:04,250 S1: to score it the same way. But I actually felt 1160 00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:07,940 S1: that they kind of overwhelmed the intimacy and the acting. 1161 00:54:07,940 --> 00:54:09,770 S1: And at some moments I actually found it like kind 1162 00:54:09,770 --> 00:54:11,570 S1: of hard to tell what was going on. What did 1163 00:54:11,570 --> 00:54:12,680 S1: you make of the soundtrack? 1164 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,930 S2: Yeah, I kind of know what you mean. Like in 1165 00:54:14,930 --> 00:54:17,480 S2: the like, no spoilers, but in the very final scene, like, 1166 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,370 S2: which involves the tennis match, I thought the use of 1167 00:54:19,370 --> 00:54:22,759 S2: music there was like masterful. But I do think that 1168 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,319 S2: it was one of those things, like in the edit suite, 1169 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,330 S2: someone should have gone in and been like, all right, Luca, 1170 00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,810 S2: like you're losing your mind a little bit like, like 1171 00:54:29,810 --> 00:54:32,870 S2: less is sometimes more. Um, and it's such a trademark 1172 00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:35,750 S2: of his. But I do feel like it was overwhelming. 1173 00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:38,180 S2: I also think probably my one other issue or only 1174 00:54:38,180 --> 00:54:40,970 S2: issue with the film was there's a lot of time jumps. 1175 00:54:40,969 --> 00:54:42,799 S2: You kind of touched on it earlier, like, you know, 1176 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,650 S2: we meet them as teenagers, then we jump forward. Suddenly 1177 00:54:45,650 --> 00:54:47,570 S2: Zendaya has got like a mom haircut where it's short 1178 00:54:47,570 --> 00:54:49,460 S2: so we know she's like sensible in her mum era 1179 00:54:49,460 --> 00:54:52,850 S2: or whatever. But I do think that's sensible. Not that sensible, 1180 00:54:52,850 --> 00:54:55,970 S2: but I do think the time jumps sometimes became distracting. Um, 1181 00:54:55,969 --> 00:54:57,890 S2: there were so many, like there were so many scenes 1182 00:54:57,890 --> 00:55:01,430 S2: where especially as she, you know, reconnects with Josh O'Connor's 1183 00:55:01,430 --> 00:55:03,859 S2: character when, you know, he is set to play her 1184 00:55:03,860 --> 00:55:06,950 S2: husband at this, like, kind of low level tournament, that 1185 00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:08,990 S2: the dialogue is so great between them. And then just 1186 00:55:08,989 --> 00:55:11,750 S2: like cut short, I felt that maybe there was one 1187 00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:15,589 S2: too many of those. It almost felt like perhaps a 1188 00:55:15,590 --> 00:55:19,970 S2: film where just a few fewer ideas would have been great. 1189 00:55:19,969 --> 00:55:22,790 S1: Yeah. From the from the cinematic perspective, from the perspective 1190 00:55:22,790 --> 00:55:24,740 S1: of how it's shot and sort of edited and put together. 1191 00:55:24,739 --> 00:55:26,239 S1: I think so too. I think it was a little 1192 00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:29,060 S1: bit choppy at times, but generally I liked the structure 1193 00:55:29,060 --> 00:55:31,520 S1: of the movie where there is this overarching sort of 1194 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,040 S1: tennis match that takes place, and then you have these flashbacks, 1195 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,380 S1: but you get closer and closer to real time, so 1196 00:55:36,380 --> 00:55:39,530 S1: they kind of almost collapse in on each other. People 1197 00:55:39,530 --> 00:55:40,970 S1: might make fun of me for saying this, but it 1198 00:55:40,969 --> 00:55:43,279 S1: kind of run me of Dunkirk, like the Nolan movie 1199 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,680 S1: where there's these different timelines, but then by the end 1200 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:47,989 S1: they've all merged into into sort of one. I think 1201 00:55:47,989 --> 00:55:51,260 S1: that was a cool, cool sort of framing for the film. Yeah, 1202 00:55:51,260 --> 00:55:53,299 S1: I don't think there's much more to say about this 1203 00:55:53,300 --> 00:55:55,730 S1: one other than it is, you know, despite sort of 1204 00:55:55,730 --> 00:55:58,130 S1: my initial hesitation, the more I think about, the more 1205 00:55:58,130 --> 00:56:00,170 S1: I talk about it, really, I think it's like a 1206 00:56:00,170 --> 00:56:03,800 S1: really fun and interesting and exciting film. And we've talked 1207 00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,770 S1: about Zendaya a bit, but in a way, you can't 1208 00:56:06,770 --> 00:56:08,990 S1: talk about her enough because she is so good in 1209 00:56:08,989 --> 00:56:11,390 S1: this movie. She's in more scenes. I think she's in 1210 00:56:11,390 --> 00:56:14,690 S1: basically almost every single scene except for a couple. And 1211 00:56:14,690 --> 00:56:18,320 S1: the way that the scenes where there is this like 1212 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,380 S1: tension between her and either fire snorkeling or both. I 1213 00:56:22,380 --> 00:56:25,440 S1: just done so well, I could have watched 20 more 1214 00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:25,920 S1: of them. 1215 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,290 S2: It really is her movie. Um, and you've seen that 1216 00:56:28,290 --> 00:56:30,450 S2: from the way it's been promoted to, you know, the 1217 00:56:30,450 --> 00:56:32,640 S2: trailer and everything. Like she is kind of at the 1218 00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,070 S2: center of it. I thought it was funny. Like the 1219 00:56:35,070 --> 00:56:37,799 S2: poster for challenges basically features like a close up of 1220 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,920 S2: Zendaya's face wearing like these sunglasses that are like purple hearts. 1221 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,200 S2: And then in the reflection of the sunglasses, you can 1222 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,180 S2: see the two guys. So that kind of tells you 1223 00:56:45,180 --> 00:56:48,030 S2: everything you need to know about this film. Like, and, 1224 00:56:48,030 --> 00:56:50,310 S2: you know, it's really interesting. I've read lots of articles 1225 00:56:50,310 --> 00:56:53,219 S2: comparing her to Julia Roberts, which is a comparison that 1226 00:56:53,219 --> 00:56:55,620 S2: is happening to a lot of people. Also, her euphoria 1227 00:56:55,620 --> 00:56:58,200 S2: co-star Sydney Sweeney and people are heralding her as the 1228 00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,719 S2: new Julia Roberts. Um, I don't know how Julia Roberts 1229 00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,480 S2: feels about being the old Julia Roberts, but but like, 1230 00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:05,100 S2: I kind of know what they mean, because obviously, you know, 1231 00:57:05,100 --> 00:57:08,250 S2: Julia Roberts was so ubiquitous in the 90s as this 1232 00:57:08,250 --> 00:57:10,350 S2: kind of like, you know, she did serious film, she 1233 00:57:10,350 --> 00:57:12,060 S2: did rom com. She could kind of do it all. 1234 00:57:12,060 --> 00:57:14,250 S2: And I guess we're wanting to fill that, and I 1235 00:57:14,250 --> 00:57:16,350 S2: could and you know, I, I just think Zendaya has 1236 00:57:16,350 --> 00:57:19,320 S2: something a bit different though. Like, she, she's so magnetic 1237 00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,810 S2: in this film. She's, you know, amazing in euphoria and stuff. 1238 00:57:21,810 --> 00:57:24,720 S2: But this I mean, June, obviously it's hard for anyone 1239 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:26,790 S2: to kind of come out looking good in that stink fire, 1240 00:57:26,790 --> 00:57:30,240 S2: but the fact that she's so like, she looks so 1241 00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,750 S2: detached in this, but magnetic, it's something that's really interesting 1242 00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:35,640 S2: about her face, I don't know. But yeah, this this 1243 00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,640 S2: was definitely another feather in the cap for the increasingly 1244 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,320 S2: impressive Zendaya back catalogue. 1245 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,840 S1: Yeah, really good point. I mean, like the Spider-Man franchise 1246 00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,180 S1: is big. And you know she's a big successful part 1247 00:57:45,180 --> 00:57:49,650 S1: of that despite your hate of June. Uh, part two. 1248 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,710 S1: Like that's a huge, huge, huge film that she is 1249 00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:55,800 S1: great in as well. And so already like, you know what, 1250 00:57:55,950 --> 00:57:58,650 S1: four and a half months into the year. And she 1251 00:57:58,650 --> 00:58:01,530 S1: is a big part of two very different but very 1252 00:58:01,530 --> 00:58:04,740 S1: big and very good movies. She's like on a hater 1253 00:58:04,740 --> 00:58:06,660 S1: right now. Excited to see what she does next. 1254 00:58:06,660 --> 00:58:07,530 S2: Yeah. No doubt. 1255 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,460 S1: All right, Thomas, before we wrap, we have our regular 1256 00:58:11,460 --> 00:58:15,120 S1: Impress Your Friend segment where we share something we watched, read, 1257 00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,690 S1: listen to, or otherwise consumed in the past week. I'm 1258 00:58:18,690 --> 00:58:21,180 S1: segueing to this one as well. Josh O'Connor, who were 1259 00:58:21,180 --> 00:58:24,510 S1: just talking about is in cinemas in Australia right now 1260 00:58:24,510 --> 00:58:27,240 S1: with a film that actually was released, I think in 1261 00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,200 S1: other parts of the world last year. It's called La Chimera. 1262 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:35,250 S1: It's a cracking Italian film. He plays a British archaeologist 1263 00:58:35,250 --> 00:58:39,060 S1: in Tuscany, embroiled in a network of grave robbers who 1264 00:58:39,060 --> 00:58:42,960 S1: essentially looting ancient artifacts. Our reviewer said that this film 1265 00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,630 S1: is like Fellini meets Tomb Raider. Like, what more do 1266 00:58:45,630 --> 00:58:49,020 S1: you want? It's really fun. Uh, he's really, really great 1267 00:58:49,020 --> 00:58:51,420 S1: in this movie. I'm not like, a big crown guy, 1268 00:58:51,420 --> 00:58:53,640 S1: so I didn't really know him from The Crown. But 1269 00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,880 S1: between like, Kamara and challenges, I think he's like also 1270 00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,160 S1: one to watch. And this is yeah incentives at the 1271 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,020 S1: moment I think it's definitely worth checking out. 1272 00:59:01,470 --> 00:59:04,020 S2: Yeah that sounds good I love uh Tomb Raider. So 1273 00:59:04,020 --> 00:59:05,670 S2: that sounds bang up my alley. 1274 00:59:05,910 --> 00:59:07,800 S1: Um actually can I mention one other quick thing before 1275 00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,840 S1: we go to yours? I mentioned this on the podcast, 1276 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,740 S1: I think last week new HBO series The Sympathizer. The 1277 00:59:13,740 --> 00:59:17,610 S1: first episode dropped this week. Uh, it's the adaptation of 1278 00:59:17,610 --> 00:59:23,250 S1: Viet Nguyen's 2015 Pulitzer Prize winning novel stars Australian John Day, 1279 00:59:23,250 --> 00:59:26,850 S1: Robert Downey Jr. Directed by Park Chan wook. I talked 1280 00:59:26,850 --> 00:59:28,230 S1: about it a bit more last week. I just want 1281 00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:30,180 S1: to say the show is out now. I've rewatched. The 1282 00:59:30,180 --> 00:59:33,180 S1: first episode is really good. It's really, really good. If 1283 00:59:33,180 --> 00:59:35,850 S1: you want some prestige TV, give it a spin. 1284 00:59:36,300 --> 00:59:37,740 S2: That also sounds great. 1285 00:59:37,740 --> 00:59:39,480 S1: What have you got for us this week? 1286 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,150 S2: I've got a really weird one and one that kind 1287 00:59:42,150 --> 00:59:44,820 S2: of caught me off guard. It's Baby Reindeer on Netflix. 1288 00:59:44,820 --> 00:59:47,040 S1: Man, I'm glad you chose this. I have not seen it, 1289 00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,560 S1: but I've heard a lot of people talking about it. 1290 00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,060 S1: Break this one down. It. 1291 00:59:51,660 --> 00:59:54,810 S2: Okay, firstly, like this is a show that is worth watching, 1292 00:59:54,810 --> 00:59:57,420 S2: but it comes with like every single possible trigger warning 1293 00:59:57,420 --> 00:59:59,730 S2: that you could need. So just like bear that in mind, 1294 00:59:59,940 --> 01:00:00,960 S2: it was one of those ones where, you know, I'm 1295 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:02,700 S2: sitting on the lounge of the night and I wasn't 1296 01:00:02,700 --> 01:00:04,950 S2: sure what to watch. I opened up Netflix. This was 1297 01:00:04,950 --> 01:00:07,350 S2: like on the splash screen. I googled it and it 1298 01:00:07,350 --> 01:00:09,000 S2: had 100% on Rotten Tomatoes. So I was like, okay, 1299 01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,120 S2: I'll try it. And what opens is almost like a 1300 01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:16,530 S2: Fleabag esque comedy, uh, quickly turns into something very dark. 1301 01:00:16,530 --> 01:00:18,210 S2: I guess what you need to know is this is 1302 01:00:18,210 --> 01:00:20,730 S2: a show by Richard Gad, an English comedian. It's based 1303 01:00:20,730 --> 01:00:23,670 S2: on his real life, one man stand up show called 1304 01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:26,670 S2: Baby Reindeer, which he premiered at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival 1305 01:00:26,670 --> 01:00:31,350 S2: in 2019. And it basically tells his real story about 1306 01:00:31,350 --> 01:00:33,540 S2: meeting a woman in a pub who would soon become 1307 01:00:33,540 --> 01:00:37,260 S2: a real life stalker, and the one man show featured 1308 01:00:37,260 --> 01:00:39,900 S2: all these like, you know, she left him 40,000 hours 1309 01:00:39,900 --> 01:00:43,050 S2: of voicemail, sent over 50,000 emails, and he kind of 1310 01:00:43,050 --> 01:00:45,150 S2: talks about not only is it this, you know, I 1311 01:00:45,150 --> 01:00:48,540 S2: guess crazy story about a stalker, but it also delves 1312 01:00:48,540 --> 01:00:51,450 S2: into like what makes a problematic victim in terms of 1313 01:00:51,450 --> 01:00:54,720 S2: himself and and his behaviors and how he kind of 1314 01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:56,970 S2: deals with things or fails to deals with things. It's 1315 01:00:56,970 --> 01:00:59,580 S2: an incredible like story. And the fact that, you know 1316 01:00:59,580 --> 01:01:01,740 S2: that Richard Gadd, who is playing himself in this show 1317 01:01:01,740 --> 01:01:04,980 S2: like this all happened to him, only makes it more insane. Uh, 1318 01:01:04,980 --> 01:01:08,550 S2: it's funny. It's heartbreaking. Their episode four is one of 1319 01:01:08,550 --> 01:01:11,820 S2: the most disturbing and important episodes of TV I've watched 1320 01:01:11,820 --> 01:01:14,220 S2: in a long time. I couldn't recommend it enough, but 1321 01:01:14,220 --> 01:01:17,010 S2: definitely know what you're getting into that is Baby Reindeer 1322 01:01:17,010 --> 01:01:20,670 S2: on Netflix. It's seven episodes and the finale will fucking 1323 01:01:20,670 --> 01:01:23,970 S2: blow your mind, and then you will spend like hours 1324 01:01:23,970 --> 01:01:25,620 S2: researching the real story. 1325 01:01:25,650 --> 01:01:29,130 S1: Wow. I'm really, really stoked by that plug for me, 1326 01:01:29,130 --> 01:01:31,920 S1: because you sort of see people chatting about this, you 1327 01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,140 S1: see it pop up and like, oh, is this like 1328 01:01:34,140 --> 01:01:36,840 S1: worth giving a go? But like, I'm very, very excited. 1329 01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:38,880 S2: Yes, it's definitely, definitely worth watching. 1330 01:01:38,910 --> 01:01:42,090 S1: Thomas Mitchell great talking films with you. Take care. See 1331 01:01:42,090 --> 01:01:48,170 S1: you next week. So. This episode of The Drop was 1332 01:01:48,170 --> 01:01:51,470 S1: produced by Chai Wong. If you enjoyed listening to today's 1333 01:01:51,470 --> 01:01:54,020 S1: episode of The Drop, make sure to follow us in 1334 01:01:54,020 --> 01:01:56,930 S1: your favorite podcast app. Leave us a review or better yet, 1335 01:01:56,930 --> 01:01:58,820 S1: send it to all of your friends. It's pretty good. 1336 01:01:59,060 --> 01:02:01,130 S1: I'm Usman Farooqui. See you next week.