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S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a

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S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,

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S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of

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S1: pop culture and entertainment. Me with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Cambrai. Folks,

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S1: what's good? What's good? What's Goody?

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S2: Great intro. I really enjoyed it. You know, we're we're

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S2: cruising through the week. It's obviously a very, very big

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S2: and interesting week. But yeah, you're fresh from seeing a

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S2: very long movie.

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S1: Well, this is this is where I've got to start

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S1: with a bit of a mia culpa to our wonderful listeners.

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S1: I did announce on the show last week that we

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S1: were going to be talking about Killers of the Flower Moon,

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S1: the new Martin Scorsese film starring Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert

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S1: De Niro. The film, which I watched on Tuesday night,

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S1: is actually not out for everyone else until October 20th.

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S1: So next week kind of thought, why don't we wait

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S1: to talk about that one when other people can actually

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S1: see it? Otherwise, I feel like we'll just get everyone

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S1: excited and revved up and then they'll have nowhere to

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S1: take all that energy for a week. That that makes sense, right?

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S3: Sure does. Seems quite sensible.

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S2: He's a sensible guy.

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S1: The good news is I have a lot to say

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S1: about this film, which I'm very excited about.

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S3: That does not surprise.

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S1: And I think I will try and in fact say

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S1: it a second time before we cover it off next

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S1: weekend so I can just really refine my take.

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S3: We can't wait. We want both versions. Yeah.

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S2: I want the I want the hot take and then

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S2: the slightly more distilled.

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S1: Well, even though that movie is not out till next week,

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S1: there is something else happening this week that we thought

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S1: we should hook our conversation on this Saturday, Australians are

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S1: going to be voting in the first referendum the country's

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S1: held since 1999 and that means that it's the first

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S1: that many of us, including the three of us here,

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S1: have ever voted in. The referendum, is about enshrining an

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S1: Indigenous voice to Parliament into the Australian Constitution. And look,

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S1: if you feel like you don't know enough about the

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S1: issue or the campaign or where it's all going, the

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S1: three of us are probably not your first port of call.

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S1: I recommend you check out our excellent coverage on the

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S1: age websites. There's a lot of really good, smart, detailed

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S1: stories there covering off all sides of the campaign. What

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S1: we did think was worth covering, given that we are

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S1: in fact a culture show. Is the engagement or perhaps

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S1: lack of engagement from significant Australian cultural figures and celebrities,

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S1: which I think is a good jumping off point for

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S1: a broader conversation around how celebrities involved themselves in politics

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S1: these days, the benefits, the risks and how we as

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S1: audiences like feel about the whole situation. I thought maybe, Thomas,

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S1: we could start this conversation with a piece you wrote

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S1: just this week, which is looking at some of the

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S1: biggest Australian celebrities at the moment and what they're saying

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S1: about this issue compared to other issues and why you

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S1: thought it was interesting to to look at them.

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S2: Yeah. So I think it was one of those stories

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S2: that started with a conversation, basically, you know, whenever these

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S2: kind of big political issues come up, I think there

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S2: is a. Maybe like a frustration with celebrity endorsements or

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S2: celebrity activism or anything kind of in that space. But naturally,

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S2: you know, we do look to some of our big

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S2: cultural exports to see what they think or to hear

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S2: what they think as a point of curiosity. And I

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S2: guess like in the context of the last few years,

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S2: someone like a Margot Robbie, a Chris Hemsworth, like Chris

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S2: Hemsworth was like the literal face of Australian tourism. Here's

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S2: someone that you know is very actively involved in this country,

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S2: lives in Byron Bay, and it actually started with talking

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S2: about the 2017 same sex marriage plebiscite, which, you know,

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S2: different very different issue to the referendum, but in a

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S2: similar space. And probably the last big public decision Australia

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S2: had to make as a country and it was very

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S2: much an issue that saw these famous people like absolutely

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S2: like jump in and get involved and be very public facing.

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S2: They were Instagram posts and again, we're talking like this

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S2: is how the conversation started was like, Oh, remember Chris

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S2: Hemsworth posted on his Instagram telling everyone to vote yes.

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S2: And I went back through, you know, through his feed

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S2: and had a look in there. It was like this

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S2: very public post being like, Hey, everyone, Like Australia is

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S2: a great country and we all love each other and

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S2: love is love and and we're a country. I think

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S2: we're a country of equality. And so here's the link

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S2: and make sure you vote. And from there, it kind

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S2: of led to a conversation about, like all the really

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S2: famous Australians that got involved. So it was like Margot

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S2: Robbie did the same thing. Russell Crowe tweeted, Kylie Minogue

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S2: was very you know, she's a long time supporter of

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S2: that community. She was very involved in the same sex

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S2: marriage plebiscite and then kind of was like, Oh, it's

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S2: weird that we haven't heard from any of these people

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S2: on the referendum. Now, of course, like, you know, we

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S2: don't we don't need to hear from them. Like how

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S2: they feel isn't going to influence us. It's more interesting

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S2: like why they haven't spoken up. And that was kind

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S2: of where the conversation kicked off and the story began.

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S2: And yeah, like, you know, we did approach all these

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S2: people's teams for comment and didn't kind of hear back.

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S2: But yeah, it was just it was very noticeable. And

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S2: I guess curious jumping off point that someone like Margot Robbie,

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S2: Chris Hemsworth, Russell Crowe, Kylie Minogue, like very ultra famous

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S2: Australians who have a track record of using their platforms

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S2: to speak out on issues that matter both to them

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S2: and matter to their country. And yet, yeah, when it

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S2: comes to the referendum, we haven't heard from any of them.

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S1: It's certainly been something that a lot of people have

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S1: asked me about. I don't know whether because of my

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S1: job or whatever people have said, Do you know why

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S1: it seems like so few big name, particularly non-Indigenous Australian celebrities,

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S1: are like not weighing in to this debate? It's probably

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S1: worth acknowledging that, like a lot have. I think Adam

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S1: Briggs most notably that Yorta Yorta man and rapper. I mean,

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S1: he has been single handedly, I think, kind of carrying

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S1: the can for a lot of other people in the

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S1: entertainment industry. His most recent video he made with Nash

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S1: Edgerton and Jenna Owen and Vixens, The Friday Night Gang,

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S1: I think it's clocked up more than 5 million views.

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S4: So confusing out there. I read online that indigenous people,

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S4: they don't even want it.

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S5: 80% of us do.

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S6: Okay. But I saw a video of an indigenous person

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S6: saying that it doesn't go far enough and I'd personally

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S6: like it to go far enough.

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S4: Me too. I'd like to go far enough for indigenous people.

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S4: For them.

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S5: Okay. So you would vote no to this progress so

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S5: that we can reconvene at an undisclosed point in the

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S5: future and then go far enough?

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S4: Yes, that makes sense to me.

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S6: Finally, some.

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S7: Sense.

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S5: So what about the voice? Doesn't make sense. Like just,

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S5: you know, what would be far enough? What are your thoughts?

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S6: I've heard that it could divide the nation. How? Okay.

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S6: So I have read something online about just the nature

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S6: of democracy in general.

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S4: Yes, because it's patronising to indigenous people and I would

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S4: hate to patronize an Indigenous person.

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S5: Okay, so it doesn't go far enough, but then it

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S5: also goes too far. Yes, because democracy?

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S6: No.

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S5: Have you googled it?

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S1: Like he's held a concert in Shepparton around this stuff.

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S1: Baker Boy joined that. Paul Kelly has also been part

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S1: of that group with Briggs Ball. Kelly's released a song to.

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S1: So there is a core of musicians that have been

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S1: very highly active and vocal on this issue. But Mel

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S1: like I mean Paul Kelly, who's someone who's got this

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S1: long history with First Nations people in this country speaking

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S1: up in support of the voice is, you know, not

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S1: that surprising. It does feel surprising to me that there

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S1: are so few others. What do you think?

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S3: I don't know if it's necessarily surprising to me because

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S3: I think there's a few issues going on here. I

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S3: think one is like a practical thing in that because

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S3: of the strikes, a lot of these people aren't in

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S3: front of cameras and journalists who would in other situations

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S3: be putting the question to them in other interviews. So

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S3: you're not getting those kind of soundbites being played out

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S3: from them. So I think that's one issue. The other

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S3: one is I think there's a perception that this referendum

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S3: is not easy or as easy to talk about in

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S3: the way that the same sex marriage was. So it

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S3: can't be kind of pithily summed up in a cute

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S3: Instagram caption with a photo of a star with a

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S3: rainbow on their face in the way a lot of

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S3: those posts were. So I think there's that perception. So

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S3: I think there's maybe this idea they have that they're

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S3: not constitutional experts. And if you weigh into something like this,

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S3: they might have a gotcha moment when they're asked about

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S3: the details of it. Whereas speaking about equal love, I

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S3: think has a perception that it is a universal subject,

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S3: that everyone has a right to and can talk about.

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S3: And the other thing I think, too, is maybe there's

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S3: a bit of a glass houses situation here. I think

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S3: if you stand up for the voice, then maybe people

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S3: might ask the question, well, if this isn't tokenism, what

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S3: are you doing to help indigenous people? Like are you

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S3: bringing them onto your set? Are you bringing them into

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S3: your films like you have such a platform? What else

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S3: are you actually doing? Of course, the voice is one

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S3: thing and supporting the voice is a big statement, but

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S3: I think it then does open you up to questions

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S3: that maybe some of these people are uncomfortable and not

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S3: ready to talk about and address.

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S1: The really good points. And I think it is helpful

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S1: to separate out some of the, I guess, categories of

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S1: reasons why we are not seeing the kind of groundswell

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S1: of celebrity support for a campaign like this. I think

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S1: the comparison with same sex marriage is an interesting place

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S1: to start comparison in terms of like what is similar

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S1: and what is different. And I think there's been quite

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S1: a few good pieces about this in the last couple

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S1: of weeks. The same sex marriage plebiscite was sort of

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S1: the final domino, the final hurdle after like a decades

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S1: long campaign for very specifically the legalisation of same sex

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S1: marriage that had had popular public support for a very

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S1: long time, that even had majority support within both major

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S1: parties in Parliament. But due to, I guess, you know,

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S1: very specific and boring factional stuff going on in the

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S1: Liberal Party at the time, wasn't able to just be

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S1: legislated without the plebiscite. So you could kind of make

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S1: the case that the celebrities coming out at that stage

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S1: were less taking a risk and less kind of being

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S1: seen as thought leaders on this issue and more just saying, well,

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S1: everyone's going to vote for this thing. I guess I

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S1: want to be recorded in history as being on the

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S1: right side. And of course, there is also the point

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S1: that more Australians, because of the way that our society works.

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S1: Know of or have close friends and family members who

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S1: are part of the LGBT community. And I mean Australia.

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S1: People don't want to talk about this. They don't really

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S1: like delving into the reasons behind this. But Australia is

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S1: a very racially segregated country still, particularly when it comes

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S1: to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. And so there

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S1: isn't that same level of, well, I want my cousin

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S1: to be able to get married, I want my sister

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S1: to be able to get married. And so that probably

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S1: overlaps with celebrities also. But I feel like when it

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S1: comes to certain figures, like Russell Crowe was a really

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S1: interesting one, right, who owns the South Sydney Rabbitohs and

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S1: has I think historically considered himself a supporter of the

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S1: Indigenous community in Australia. I wonder why someone like him

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S1: feels like he's not ready to speak up.

228
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S2: Yeah, I think so too. Especially like I mean if

229
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S2: we're being kind of a little bit cynical, you know,

230
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,770
S2: Russell Crowe is in like the twilight of his career.

231
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S2: He also has like big don't really give a fuck energy. Like,

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S2: you know, Margot, for instance, she's like on the up, like,

233
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S2: it's all happening. I could see that perhaps you could

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S2: make the argument she has more to lose than Russell Crowe,

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S2: but Russell Crowe like also, if you go on to

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S2: Russell Crowe, his Twitter feed, it often feels like he's

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00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:07,469
S2: sitting somewhere in Italy, like smashing a dart and just

238
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S2: firing off tweets. So, like, I am kind of surprised.

239
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,280
S2: And again, we don't like it's worth saying we don't

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S2: know how any of these people would vote anyway. But

241
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S2: I think reading between the lines, you might be able

242
00:12:19,290 --> 00:12:20,880
S2: to make the assumption, knowing what we know of these

243
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,830
S2: people and looking at some of their past, you know,

244
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,190
S2: stances and and events in their life, perhaps a lot

245
00:12:26,190 --> 00:12:29,010
S2: of them would have voted yes. And I do think

246
00:12:29,010 --> 00:12:31,770
S2: it's interesting to then be like, okay, well, there also

247
00:12:31,770 --> 00:12:35,730
S2: could be a consideration that given the increasingly, I would say,

248
00:12:35,940 --> 00:12:40,319
S2: toxic relationship that people have with like celebrity endorsements, that

249
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S2: can be like a bit of a death knell for

250
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S2: a cause. Maybe they've been like, if I come out

251
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S2: with my big Instagram post or my big tweet, like, really?

252
00:12:48,929 --> 00:12:52,170
S2: I'll just like, do more harm than good. And, you know,

253
00:12:52,170 --> 00:12:54,810
S2: the Vote Yes campaign is already kind of behind the

254
00:12:54,809 --> 00:12:57,150
S2: eight ball a little bit. So maybe, you know, some

255
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S2: of these guys could be helping behind the scenes. And

256
00:12:58,350 --> 00:12:59,280
S2: we don't know that.

257
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S1: The idea of like what the purpose of a celebrity

258
00:13:02,429 --> 00:13:05,340
S1: endorsement is, is interesting. I was just saying before, Mel, like,

259
00:13:05,340 --> 00:13:08,550
S1: I wonder whether the Chris Hemsworth and Margot Robbie and

260
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:12,930
S1: Kylie Minogue stances during the same sex marriage debate actually

261
00:13:12,929 --> 00:13:15,089
S1: changed minds or whether they just wanted to be seen

262
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S1: to be nailing the colours to the mask. I mean,

263
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S1: do you think or can you think of examples where

264
00:13:20,070 --> 00:13:25,199
S1: celebrity involvement in key social issues has actually made you

265
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,479
S1: or people, you know, be like, Oh wow, Yeah, Now

266
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S1: I guess I do care about this issue.

267
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S3: Yeah, it's interesting. I think it's nearly impossible to measure

268
00:13:33,540 --> 00:13:37,290
S3: the link between a celebrity endorsement and the kind of

269
00:13:37,290 --> 00:13:40,770
S3: political changes and to be able to measure fully their

270
00:13:40,770 --> 00:13:43,829
S3: political power. But I do think we are at a

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S3: time where they have the biggest fan base they've ever

272
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,260
S3: had media reach like they've never had before, and access

273
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S3: actually to political players that they haven't had in the past.

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S3: And I think celebrities are they have always been political,

275
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S3: but I think they are becoming more political, not just

276
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S3: with the electoral polls like I mean, obviously, Oprah Winfrey

277
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S3: is the famous example who came out in 2008 and

278
00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:08,130
S3: supported Barack Obama. And people still talk about the Oprah effect.

279
00:14:08,130 --> 00:14:11,460
S3: But you see like Kim Kardashian West is kind of campaigning.

280
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S3: She's getting meetings with Donald Trump about capital punishment. You see,

281
00:14:14,970 --> 00:14:17,819
S3: Jada Pinkett Smith is in front of Congress talking about

282
00:14:17,820 --> 00:14:22,230
S3: human trafficking. Selena Gomez is writing about migration issues. I

283
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:26,490
S3: think celebrities are more political. Does it amount to political change?

284
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S3: I don't know. What I do think is that it

285
00:14:30,330 --> 00:14:33,750
S3: does change how people view the celebrity probably more than

286
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:37,830
S3: it changes how they change the public's perception. But in

287
00:14:37,830 --> 00:14:40,800
S3: saying that, I do think they have the ability to

288
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:45,000
S3: access a demographic, particularly in the voice referendum, that is

289
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,610
S3: probably not as much part of this debate as maybe

290
00:14:47,610 --> 00:14:49,320
S3: they were in the same sex marriage. Like I feel

291
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,560
S3: like the voice discussion is really playing out in the

292
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,190
S3: political sphere with the political political party. What do they

293
00:14:56,190 --> 00:14:56,580
S3: call them?

294
00:14:56,580 --> 00:14:57,900
S8: The glitterati?

295
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,570
S3: Yeah, I think it's really playing out in a political

296
00:15:00,570 --> 00:15:03,690
S3: sphere and it hasn't had the same kind of social movement,

297
00:15:03,930 --> 00:15:06,420
S3: social media movement that the same sex marriage debate did,

298
00:15:06,420 --> 00:15:09,690
S3: or other political movements like me too, and Black Lives Matters,

299
00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:11,790
S3: where you saw celebrities get on board. So I do

300
00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:13,890
S3: think it is a missed opportunity because I think big

301
00:15:13,890 --> 00:15:18,840
S3: names could reach younger audiences who should feel empowered to

302
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,390
S3: vote in this referendum and who should feel that they

303
00:15:21,390 --> 00:15:23,460
S3: own this discussion, whereas I think it's not playing out

304
00:15:23,460 --> 00:15:25,950
S3: there as much. And so I think that's unfortunate.

305
00:15:25,950 --> 00:15:27,660
S2: And that's what I think is interesting about like the

306
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:30,000
S2: Briggs video, the far enough video, which, as you said,

307
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,430
S2: is gone kind of viral now. It did feel like

308
00:15:32,430 --> 00:15:34,380
S2: it came late in the game, but it's such a

309
00:15:34,380 --> 00:15:36,060
S2: great video. And that I think, has been a big

310
00:15:36,060 --> 00:15:38,550
S2: gateway for a lot of people because you've seen I mean, firstly,

311
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:41,250
S2: like a lot of young people love Briggs and it's

312
00:15:41,250 --> 00:15:44,280
S2: gone off on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube and it's

313
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,170
S2: been shared by I've seen that video shared by. I

314
00:15:47,170 --> 00:15:50,140
S2: more people like kind of like high profile people in

315
00:15:50,140 --> 00:15:52,420
S2: the last two weeks than anything else I'd seen by

316
00:15:52,420 --> 00:15:55,120
S2: like famous people inserting themselves into the voice debate over

317
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,370
S2: the last six months. So that was like a big

318
00:15:57,370 --> 00:16:00,280
S2: gateway for people, I guess, like for famous people who

319
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:01,570
S2: didn't really know what they wanted to say, it was

320
00:16:01,570 --> 00:16:03,550
S2: easy for them to share the Briggs video and be like,

321
00:16:03,550 --> 00:16:05,340
S2: This is how I feel and I'm supporting the cause.

322
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:07,540
S2: But like, yeah, that that I think opened up the

323
00:16:07,540 --> 00:16:08,980
S2: avenue for a lot of people. And we did see it,

324
00:16:08,980 --> 00:16:11,860
S2: you know, I guess famously now it got Reshared by

325
00:16:11,860 --> 00:16:15,850
S2: Taika Waititi to, you know, a Chris Hemsworth collaborator and

326
00:16:16,180 --> 00:16:18,610
S2: someone who does speak out a lot on especially indigenous

327
00:16:18,610 --> 00:16:21,730
S2: issues being from New Zealand. And then then it was

328
00:16:21,730 --> 00:16:26,260
S2: reshared by Jason Momoa of Aquaman fame, who is not,

329
00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:28,780
S2: you know, obviously part of this debate here in Australia.

330
00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:32,830
S2: But again, he's also of Polynesian descent and both of

331
00:16:32,830 --> 00:16:36,400
S2: them though got like absolutely rinsed in the comments like,

332
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,400
S2: you know, especially given they're not from Australia and not

333
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,360
S2: going to be voting in the referendum. But, you know,

334
00:16:41,410 --> 00:16:43,510
S2: it did latch on to an audience and people started

335
00:16:43,510 --> 00:16:45,520
S2: to share it. So Barber shared it on her to

336
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,350
S2: her millions of followers. But turn comments off and and

337
00:16:48,370 --> 00:16:50,220
S2: so I guess that's been an avenue for people to

338
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:53,440
S2: to get across this issue but yeah like I guess

339
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:54,670
S2: that's been like a good avenue for people to get

340
00:16:54,670 --> 00:16:55,510
S2: across this issue.

341
00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:59,950
S1: Yeah. And I think that question of who these celebrities

342
00:16:59,950 --> 00:17:04,210
S1: could reach and and perhaps like hearing you discuss that, Mel,

343
00:17:04,210 --> 00:17:06,520
S1: makes me think that someone like Margot Robbie and someone

344
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:11,379
S1: like Chris Hemsworth, Tom is like, more helpful now than

345
00:17:11,380 --> 00:17:14,590
S1: they were in the same sex marriage debate. Like, I

346
00:17:14,590 --> 00:17:17,320
S1: feel like there was such a you know, not to

347
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,179
S1: diminish the campaign and the work that a lot of

348
00:17:19,180 --> 00:17:23,230
S1: activists put in to actually getting the vote out on that.

349
00:17:23,230 --> 00:17:26,170
S1: But that was a debate that the community was already

350
00:17:26,170 --> 00:17:29,500
S1: ahead of the politicians on that one. Whereas the polling,

351
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:33,250
S1: the research, the conversations, the evidence we have with the

352
00:17:33,250 --> 00:17:36,520
S1: referendum on the voice to Parliament is that there is

353
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,580
S1: a lack of understanding, there's lack of engagement, there's confusion

354
00:17:39,580 --> 00:17:41,649
S1: and there's confusion from a whole bunch of people that

355
00:17:41,650 --> 00:17:44,859
S1: are open to receiving messages from someone like Margot Robbie.

356
00:17:44,859 --> 00:17:46,899
S1: Like a lot of young people, I think you're spot on.

357
00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:50,770
S1: Tom It's like so much of the official yes campaigning,

358
00:17:50,770 --> 00:17:54,790
S1: particularly their first ads, did not seem aimed at young,

359
00:17:54,790 --> 00:17:58,240
S1: confused people. That first ad that had the John Farnham

360
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,460
S1: video in it. I'm like, firstly, John Farnham is not

361
00:18:00,460 --> 00:18:03,190
S1: really someone that speaks to people under the age of 50,

362
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:06,340
S1: even though the song is a banger. The ad was

363
00:18:06,340 --> 00:18:09,879
S1: focused on this like boomer white dad in kind of

364
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,300
S1: suburban Queensland and sure might have had an impact on

365
00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:15,820
S1: some people. But the Briggs video and that sort of

366
00:18:15,820 --> 00:18:19,210
S1: stuff is hitting people of our generation maybe a little

367
00:18:19,210 --> 00:18:21,820
S1: bit older, maybe a little bit younger, who just feel confused.

368
00:18:21,820 --> 00:18:23,620
S1: And I feel like they're the kind of people that

369
00:18:23,619 --> 00:18:25,540
S1: if Margot Robbie did come out and say, Hey, guys,

370
00:18:25,540 --> 00:18:28,000
S1: remember me? I'm like the biggest celebrity in the world

371
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,330
S1: right now, let alone Australian. I'm from Queensland. We have

372
00:18:31,330 --> 00:18:33,850
S1: got an issue with the way we have treated Indigenous

373
00:18:33,850 --> 00:18:36,430
S1: people in this country going back to 1788. I want

374
00:18:36,430 --> 00:18:38,560
S1: you to think about that and like vote yes or whatever.

375
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:39,910
S1: I feel like that would have an impact.

376
00:18:39,910 --> 00:18:42,520
S3: I completely agree. And the impact of the Briggs video

377
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,340
S3: is evidence of that. Like it was smart, it was clever,

378
00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:48,430
S3: it was succinct, it was non-judgmental. And I really do

379
00:18:48,430 --> 00:18:50,920
S3: think it made people who might have previously felt that

380
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,200
S3: they weren't really across this topic or part of this

381
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,660
S3: topic feel like they were part of it and had

382
00:18:55,660 --> 00:18:57,220
S3: a right to be part of it and a right

383
00:18:57,220 --> 00:18:59,800
S3: to vote and got people excited about voting. I think

384
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,510
S3: in a way that we did see with the same

385
00:19:01,510 --> 00:19:03,340
S3: sex marriage. But I don't think we've really seen with

386
00:19:03,340 --> 00:19:04,359
S3: this referendum.

387
00:19:04,869 --> 00:19:09,160
S1: Why do we think then that they are reluctant? Like,

388
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:10,719
S1: does it have to go to this point that you

389
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,419
S1: made Thomas about Taika Waititi and James Mill in the

390
00:19:13,420 --> 00:19:16,510
S1: comments like when others when Australians have posted about this,

391
00:19:16,510 --> 00:19:18,460
S1: you made the point in your piece and Gary Rice,

392
00:19:18,460 --> 00:19:21,970
S1: the Australian actress, they've been slammed so much. Presumably these

393
00:19:21,970 --> 00:19:25,060
S1: celebrities or their managers are being like, Well, this is

394
00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:27,219
S1: a really divisive one. Like we are on a hot

395
00:19:27,220 --> 00:19:31,720
S1: streak right now. We just don't want middle Australians who

396
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,330
S1: don't support the voice to turn off you and therefore

397
00:19:34,330 --> 00:19:36,820
S1: cost you money. Is it as simple as that?

398
00:19:36,820 --> 00:19:39,100
S2: Like, I think it probably is depressing as it seems.

399
00:19:39,109 --> 00:19:41,380
S2: I think Mel made a really good point in that,

400
00:19:41,380 --> 00:19:44,500
S2: you know, because of the SAG strike and stuff, they

401
00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:47,619
S2: are able to skate along without having to face questions

402
00:19:47,619 --> 00:19:49,359
S2: where it is then like forced upon them and they

403
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,550
S2: have to take a position and, you know, I guess

404
00:19:51,550 --> 00:19:54,820
S2: Margot Robbie is not on Instagram, she's not on social

405
00:19:54,820 --> 00:19:58,960
S2: media anymore. She was at the time of same sex marriage. Yeah,

406
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,850
S2: I think ultimately it does come down to that. Like

407
00:20:00,850 --> 00:20:02,889
S2: this is an easy one. You can almost hear the

408
00:20:02,890 --> 00:20:06,399
S2: conversation if you're a Chris Hemsworth and maybe you're sitting

409
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,650
S2: in your house at Byron Bay and you're like, Oh,

410
00:20:08,650 --> 00:20:10,540
S2: maybe I will Like because the other thing is I

411
00:20:10,540 --> 00:20:14,139
S2: actually got an Instagram message this morning. This stranger on

412
00:20:14,140 --> 00:20:16,780
S2: the Internet was like, loved your article. It's very rare

413
00:20:16,780 --> 00:20:19,390
S2: for me to get one of those and basically like listed.

414
00:20:19,390 --> 00:20:21,100
S8: All the different yeah.

415
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,560
S2: Listed all the different like interactions and engagements and relationships

416
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,020
S2: Chris Hemsworth has got with the indigenous community, including getting

417
00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:31,510
S2: this massive mural painted at his house in Byron Bay. And,

418
00:20:31,510 --> 00:20:34,180
S2: and you know, like, I just can't help but feel

419
00:20:34,180 --> 00:20:36,850
S2: I know that I assume he's going to vote yes.

420
00:20:36,850 --> 00:20:38,859
S2: And I like to think that maybe if he was

421
00:20:38,859 --> 00:20:40,689
S2: sitting in his house and being like, okay, I'm going

422
00:20:40,690 --> 00:20:42,280
S2: to check this post up, you can almost hear the

423
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,950
S2: conversation where his manager is like, Do you really think

424
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:47,530
S2: this is the best thing for you to do right now?

425
00:20:47,530 --> 00:20:50,920
S2: It's clearly a very contentious issue. People are clearly very divided.

426
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,800
S2: Like if you just don't say anything, then you can't

427
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,429
S2: really be like, no harm, no foul. And depressingly, it

428
00:20:57,430 --> 00:21:00,400
S2: is probably the situation for a lot of these guys. Like,

429
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,800
S2: as we said, the same sex marriage plebiscite as a

430
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,629
S2: point of comparison, that was easy. It was an easy

431
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:07,240
S2: win for them, like everyone was already on board and

432
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,280
S2: the optics of it were great, whereas this is like

433
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,640
S2: messier and cloudier and if they just don't involve themselves,

434
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,889
S2: then they can't kind of like trip over.

435
00:21:15,340 --> 00:21:18,070
S1: How do we feel about that? Because if we say

436
00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:22,600
S1: that a celebrity's opinion on a social issue matters because

437
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,209
S1: they're an artist and they're engaged in these kinds of

438
00:21:25,210 --> 00:21:28,000
S1: conversations and we kind of want to look up to

439
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,090
S1: them as role models, but they are only willing to

440
00:21:31,090 --> 00:21:33,220
S1: do it when there is no risk to them. Does

441
00:21:33,220 --> 00:21:37,390
S1: that not potentially demean or undermine any future intervention they

442
00:21:37,390 --> 00:21:39,970
S1: may make? Right. Because it sort of seems like, well,

443
00:21:39,970 --> 00:21:42,070
S1: you only want to do it when it might benefit

444
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:45,399
S1: you to associate yourself from a positive grant or of

445
00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:48,700
S1: public support, but you're not willing to actually stick your

446
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:50,649
S1: neck out when so many others like you think Briggs

447
00:21:50,650 --> 00:21:54,159
S1: isn't copping shit like Briggs, despite being an indigenous rapper,

448
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,360
S1: probably has a lot of fans. Or people who did

449
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,790
S1: listen to his music who might not anymore because of

450
00:21:58,790 --> 00:22:01,159
S1: his stance on the voice, he's copying death threats and

451
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,619
S1: all sorts of shit in social media. I feel like

452
00:22:04,580 --> 00:22:09,200
S1: I just feel like Chris Hemsworth, like maybe you lose 20%

453
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,199
S1: of the people going to watch a Netflix. You're fine, right?

454
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,810
S1: Like that's and I guess, you know, this is a

455
00:22:14,810 --> 00:22:17,510
S1: difficult one because I don't think any of us really

456
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:21,649
S1: have a right to demand celebrities say X, Y or Z.

457
00:22:21,650 --> 00:22:23,720
S1: But I think what I'm trying to get at is

458
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,300
S1: if you are willing to weigh in on some issues

459
00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:29,300
S1: because you think that they are risk free and make

460
00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:31,879
S1: you look good, but you're not willing to do it

461
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,369
S1: on the riskier stuff that you probably agree with. I

462
00:22:34,369 --> 00:22:36,619
S1: kind of don't want to hear from you again because

463
00:22:36,869 --> 00:22:39,080
S1: it just seems like you're just playing the game to

464
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:39,890
S1: benefit yourself.

465
00:22:39,890 --> 00:22:42,830
S2: Yeah, I kind of agree Like it. Like as we

466
00:22:42,830 --> 00:22:44,930
S2: discussed before, these are people that all have a long

467
00:22:44,930 --> 00:22:47,690
S2: track record outside of the same sex marriage thing of

468
00:22:47,690 --> 00:22:50,630
S2: like speaking up about issues that do matter to them.

469
00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:54,169
S2: And so it's not a situation where they've never inserted

470
00:22:54,170 --> 00:22:56,030
S2: them into any kind of political debate. And so to

471
00:22:56,030 --> 00:22:58,520
S2: demand they have a stance on this would be unfair.

472
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,460
S2: Like these are people who do speak up. And so, yeah,

473
00:23:01,460 --> 00:23:03,530
S2: if it does feel like, okay, I'm picking and choosing

474
00:23:03,530 --> 00:23:05,810
S2: here and you know, the annoying thing and inevitable people

475
00:23:05,810 --> 00:23:08,929
S2: will listen to this and think this, you know, the

476
00:23:08,930 --> 00:23:11,540
S2: kind of hot take from audiences is like, well, who

477
00:23:11,540 --> 00:23:13,760
S2: cares what celebrities think? And of course, like, I don't

478
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,010
S2: like what Chris Hemsworth thinks about the referendum is not

479
00:23:16,010 --> 00:23:17,899
S2: going to change how I vote. But I think what

480
00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:20,869
S2: is interesting and worth discussing is like, why might these

481
00:23:20,869 --> 00:23:23,600
S2: very high profile celebrities who do do this in the

482
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,359
S2: past feel like they can't this time around? And I

483
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,060
S2: guess it speaks to the bigger issue of this referendum

484
00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:31,970
S2: is that there is a confusion and an optics problem.

485
00:23:31,970 --> 00:23:34,460
S2: And it's kind of like hamstringing everyone.

486
00:23:34,670 --> 00:23:36,650
S3: Well, I do also think it is like a very

487
00:23:36,650 --> 00:23:39,800
S3: individual choice for an artist to make about whether they

488
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,399
S3: want to be a political player. It's an artistic choice,

489
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,040
S3: I think in the sense that when you become an

490
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,580
S3: artist with a high profile outside of your art, it

491
00:23:49,580 --> 00:23:53,540
S3: inevitably changes how people view your art. Like you can't

492
00:23:53,540 --> 00:23:56,689
S3: separate this power text that surrounds the art. When Barbie

493
00:23:56,690 --> 00:24:00,170
S3: becomes political, it changes how we view Barbie and vice versa.

494
00:24:00,170 --> 00:24:02,540
S3: So it's I think it could be partly an artistic

495
00:24:02,540 --> 00:24:05,210
S3: decision that these people are making because it does shape

496
00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:07,699
S3: how their work is viewed. And I do think it

497
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:10,610
S3: is a moral question as well for them about how

498
00:24:10,609 --> 00:24:12,800
S3: they want to use the power and they the reach

499
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,290
S3: that that they have. So I think there's probably some

500
00:24:15,290 --> 00:24:17,540
S3: other factors playing into it as well as the issue

501
00:24:17,540 --> 00:24:21,650
S3: specifically related to the yes vote about when an artist

502
00:24:21,650 --> 00:24:23,360
S3: decides to become political.

503
00:24:23,450 --> 00:24:26,000
S1: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense to

504
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,000
S1: I think just to your point, Thomas, of people saying like,

505
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,930
S1: who cares what celebrities think? Like there's such an irrelevant

506
00:24:32,930 --> 00:24:36,260
S1: question because we do care. Like we literally can't we

507
00:24:36,260 --> 00:24:39,500
S1: we follow these people more than we follow politicians and

508
00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:42,260
S1: like real thought leaders or whatever. Like you gave the

509
00:24:42,260 --> 00:24:46,520
S1: great example, Mel, of Oprah in the Obama campaign, even

510
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,880
S1: going back a few months to the launch of the

511
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,180
S1: actors strike, like, sure, that was an issue that involved

512
00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:56,420
S1: the actors. But when Fran Drescher gave that speech about,

513
00:24:56,420 --> 00:24:59,870
S1: like you know, AI is coming and big capitalism is

514
00:24:59,869 --> 00:25:03,950
S1: destroying society, that resonated with people. When Margot Robbie was

515
00:25:03,950 --> 00:25:06,710
S1: asked about it at a red carpet that resonated with

516
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:09,230
S1: people like we do listen to these people when they

517
00:25:09,230 --> 00:25:13,879
S1: talk about issues. I think you're right, Mel, that it

518
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,780
S1: is ultimately an artistic decision for them. And again, like

519
00:25:17,780 --> 00:25:20,210
S1: I guess I'm not even really saying I wish Margot

520
00:25:20,210 --> 00:25:22,190
S1: Robbie had done X, Y and Z. I wish Chris

521
00:25:22,190 --> 00:25:25,280
S1: Hemsworth had said something, but I don't think this is

522
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,470
S1: going to be the last time or the last issue

523
00:25:27,470 --> 00:25:32,540
S1: that this conversation arises around. And it just does sort

524
00:25:32,540 --> 00:25:35,900
S1: of feel like viewed in the broader context and all

525
00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:39,449
S1: the things that we've raised that. And I'm happy for

526
00:25:39,450 --> 00:25:40,709
S1: you guys to call me out if you think I'm

527
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:44,400
S1: being too, like, too cynical about these guys. It just

528
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,879
S1: feels like we'll do it when it's easy and risk free.

529
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,850
S1: But when things get a bit tricky or a bit messy,

530
00:25:50,850 --> 00:25:53,129
S1: we just are happy to just sit this one out.

531
00:25:53,130 --> 00:25:57,630
S1: And I don't know how much I respect that as

532
00:25:57,630 --> 00:25:58,590
S1: a perspective.

533
00:25:58,859 --> 00:26:01,440
S3: I completely agree with you, but I think celebrity as

534
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,119
S3: a concept, like a celebrity is created by the dominant ideology. Really.

535
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,450
S3: Like that's what gives them their power is mass appeal.

536
00:26:09,450 --> 00:26:11,669
S3: And so I guess that is why they don't want

537
00:26:11,670 --> 00:26:13,890
S3: to speak out. And that is why they reinforce the

538
00:26:13,890 --> 00:26:17,280
S3: kind of dominant ideology is because that's where they get

539
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,070
S3: their power from. So it's a two way street.

540
00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:21,780
S1: Yeah, it's a good point. It's easy to blame Margot

541
00:26:21,780 --> 00:26:23,970
S1: Robbie and Chris Hemsworth when it's like, well, actually, Australia

542
00:26:23,970 --> 00:26:26,909
S1: is probably on current polling most likely to emphatically say

543
00:26:26,910 --> 00:26:30,300
S1: no to this thing. And the racist sort of criticism

544
00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:32,460
S1: to people who have spoken up and, you know, the

545
00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:35,940
S1: non racist criticism as well, like this is a societal problem.

546
00:26:35,940 --> 00:26:38,129
S1: Is your point not just one about these guys?

547
00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:40,680
S2: Yes. I mean, obviously, I think this whole conversation needs

548
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,710
S2: that context. But I think what is interesting for me,

549
00:26:43,710 --> 00:26:45,240
S2: like I don't think we need to get into a

550
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,690
S2: situation where every time there's a major political issue, we

551
00:26:48,690 --> 00:26:50,880
S2: need like someone calling the celebrity so we can make

552
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,770
S2: sure we all know what they think about every single

553
00:26:52,770 --> 00:26:55,139
S2: issue like that. That to me is not the situation.

554
00:26:55,140 --> 00:26:57,960
S2: But especially like when you get to the level of

555
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,810
S2: like a Chris Hemsworth or a Margot Robbie, inevitably you

556
00:27:00,810 --> 00:27:03,600
S2: become this weird, like unofficial ambassador for Australia. You go

557
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,400
S2: in every late night show. They're like, Oh my God,

558
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,680
S2: you're from Australia. Talk to me about Australian things like,

559
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,780
S2: like that is what happens when you're still because we

560
00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:12,720
S2: have this weird like, I don't know, cultural cringe about ourselves.

561
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,820
S2: When you become really famous and you are Australian, you

562
00:27:14,820 --> 00:27:18,420
S2: get this weird like ambassador label and this is a

563
00:27:18,420 --> 00:27:22,470
S2: big issue like a once in a generation issue regarding

564
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:24,690
S2: the future of this country. And these people are very

565
00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:27,120
S2: happy to kind of like play that fun ambassador role,

566
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,070
S2: you know, like fucking Margot. Robbie will go on Vogue

567
00:27:29,070 --> 00:27:31,530
S2: and do 73 questions and talk about Vegemite and Tim Tams,

568
00:27:31,530 --> 00:27:34,500
S2: but like, this is a big issue that is like

569
00:27:34,530 --> 00:27:37,770
S2: impacting Australia and it probably is a really good time

570
00:27:37,770 --> 00:27:41,189
S2: for some of our most globally recognised Australians whose like

571
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:45,119
S2: opinions would cause like waves and like say, they were

572
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,030
S2: all voting yes, positive press around the world. I do

573
00:27:48,030 --> 00:27:50,070
S2: think there is a bit more of a responsibility for

574
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:52,640
S2: them to speak out given they do have a track record.

575
00:27:52,670 --> 00:27:55,170
S2: I don't need to hear from Margot and Chris on,

576
00:27:55,170 --> 00:27:57,450
S2: you know, what's happening in Gaza, but I do kind

577
00:27:57,450 --> 00:28:00,600
S2: of want to know where they position themselves. As, you know,

578
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,629
S2: very famous Australians who seem to be invested and giving

579
00:28:03,630 --> 00:28:05,369
S2: back to this country all the time, like, well, then

580
00:28:05,369 --> 00:28:07,500
S2: we're at a cross point here. Like, what do you think?

581
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:10,650
S1: I think that's a really good point about how wound

582
00:28:10,650 --> 00:28:13,649
S1: up in Australian identity and the projection of Australian identity

583
00:28:13,650 --> 00:28:17,010
S1: and culture. Those two people in specific are and I

584
00:28:17,010 --> 00:28:20,430
S1: think Australia has a bad understanding of its history. The

585
00:28:20,430 --> 00:28:24,149
S1: world has an even worse understanding, like most international observers

586
00:28:24,150 --> 00:28:26,879
S1: of Australia think, we are literally just Margot Robbie and

587
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,550
S1: Chris Hemsworth's running around. And even though that's how I

588
00:28:29,550 --> 00:28:33,030
S1: think about YouTube, there is a lot more diversity and

589
00:28:33,030 --> 00:28:36,869
S1: complexity to Australian history. The other thing I wanted to

590
00:28:36,869 --> 00:28:40,800
S1: ask you guys about is from the start of this

591
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,730
S1: official campaign kicking off, there has been what I guess

592
00:28:44,730 --> 00:28:48,990
S1: observers have described as the progressive no vote, which has

593
00:28:48,990 --> 00:28:54,780
S1: had a lot of high profile, very respected indigenous activists

594
00:28:54,780 --> 00:28:57,780
S1: be a part of it. On Q&A just this week,

595
00:28:57,780 --> 00:29:00,990
S1: Natasha Wanganui, the actress who probably most famous from Rabbit

596
00:29:00,990 --> 00:29:05,100
S1: Proof Fence, she was on saying that she is a progressive,

597
00:29:05,100 --> 00:29:08,820
S1: no voter. She is going to vote no to the

598
00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:12,690
S1: referendum because she doesn't think that it goes far enough

599
00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:16,200
S1: in dealing with the significant problems she still sees embedded

600
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,230
S1: within Australia when it comes to Indigenous issues. I wonder

601
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:23,680
S1: whether like that confusion or that that sort of like

602
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,680
S1: complex debate, like during the same sex marriage referendum, for example,

603
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,510
S1: there wasn't really a divergence of opinion from the LGBT

604
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,910
S1: community on this. And I wonder whether I'm not even wondering,

605
00:29:33,910 --> 00:29:35,560
S1: like I'm literally saying this because I know this from

606
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,030
S1: from some high profile people, not not Margot, Robin, Chris Hemsworth,

607
00:29:40,030 --> 00:29:42,550
S1: they're not texting me their views, but from like others

608
00:29:42,550 --> 00:29:45,220
S1: in the artistic space, they say that they feel a

609
00:29:45,220 --> 00:29:48,370
S1: bit confused because indigenous people that they look up to

610
00:29:48,370 --> 00:29:50,860
S1: and respect and try to get their opinions on are saying, well, no,

611
00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:53,920
S1: I'm on the no side. And so they feel a

612
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,230
S1: bit complicated. Do you guys think there's a layer of

613
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:57,310
S1: that here as well?

614
00:29:57,580 --> 00:30:01,300
S3: Yeah, I definitely think that's playing into it because Hollywood

615
00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:06,040
S3: is traditionally more liberal in terms of its social progressiveness, which,

616
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,530
S3: as you mentioned, I think is why same sex marriage

617
00:30:08,530 --> 00:30:11,320
S3: was kind of uncontroversial for many of these big names.

618
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,650
S3: But I think the division within the left is a

619
00:30:14,650 --> 00:30:18,010
S3: big part of the problem and has confused the issue

620
00:30:18,010 --> 00:30:21,370
S3: and made it more contested. And Bruce's video kind of

621
00:30:21,370 --> 00:30:24,280
S3: spoke to that confusion as well. And I think there

622
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,790
S3: is a perception that what at its heart is a

623
00:30:27,790 --> 00:30:33,730
S3: relatively simple proposition has become publicly perceived as being way

624
00:30:33,730 --> 00:30:36,130
S3: more complicated than really what it is. And so I

625
00:30:36,130 --> 00:30:38,320
S3: do think that's part of the resistance to get involved.

626
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,600
S3: And as I mentioned at the start, I think there

627
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,240
S3: is this perception that it can't be summed up neatly

628
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,430
S3: and nicely and that if you take a stance, there

629
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:48,160
S3: are questions you have to answer that maybe the answers

630
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,530
S3: aren't obvious to. And there is this sense that it

631
00:30:50,530 --> 00:30:53,530
S3: can't just become the equal love we all love. Love

632
00:30:53,530 --> 00:30:56,320
S3: that the kind of same sex plebiscite did.

633
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,900
S2: You don't want Chris Hemsworth to go like full commercial.

634
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:01,350
S2: And then he's like, Yes, and then he's no, and

635
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:02,950
S2: he's hardened and cold.

636
00:31:02,980 --> 00:31:05,350
S1: The commercial thing. I mean, that was so weird. Like,

637
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:07,450
S1: why did we make this guy the number one news

638
00:31:07,450 --> 00:31:08,500
S1: story for like two weeks?

639
00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:09,820
S2: And I must say it was funny. And I guess

640
00:31:09,820 --> 00:31:13,570
S2: this will, like, you know, speak to people's thoughts or

641
00:31:13,690 --> 00:31:15,880
S2: preconceived thoughts on celebrity activism stuff. But when I was

642
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,050
S2: writing this story, you know, looking at how which celebrities

643
00:31:20,050 --> 00:31:22,090
S2: had endorsed either side, and obviously there was, you know,

644
00:31:22,090 --> 00:31:24,730
S2: far more people in the vote Yes. Camp and then

645
00:31:24,730 --> 00:31:27,880
S2: on vote no, it was basically just Sam Newman and Kamal.

646
00:31:28,210 --> 00:31:32,110
S2: So yeah, I mean, and I guess that speaks to

647
00:31:32,140 --> 00:31:34,540
S2: to a broader issue and you know, the very easy

648
00:31:34,540 --> 00:31:38,440
S2: criticism for those like looking to attack the vote. Yes

649
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,090
S2: camp is that it is this kind of like preachy

650
00:31:40,090 --> 00:31:42,940
S2: elite thing and we saw Peter Dutton, you know, call

651
00:31:42,940 --> 00:31:45,610
S2: Ray Martin those exact words after Ray Martin kind of

652
00:31:45,610 --> 00:31:47,620
S2: had his fall from grace over the last week. So yeah,

653
00:31:47,950 --> 00:31:50,020
S2: it's an interesting issue. But I think one, we're talking

654
00:31:50,020 --> 00:31:52,390
S2: about it and there's always going to be this massive

655
00:31:52,390 --> 00:31:56,470
S2: intersection between big cultural issues and those who like contribute

656
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:59,170
S2: to our pop culture sphere. So it's always worth talking about.

657
00:31:59,810 --> 00:32:01,820
S1: No, I'm glad we did. The last question I've got

658
00:32:01,820 --> 00:32:03,680
S1: for you guys on this one is how much do

659
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,460
S1: you think all of this this question around celebrities as

660
00:32:07,460 --> 00:32:09,950
S1: elite people that we should listen to, should they weigh

661
00:32:09,950 --> 00:32:12,110
S1: in on politics? How much do you think all of

662
00:32:12,110 --> 00:32:17,060
S1: the sort of negative vibes around this is down to

663
00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:20,750
S1: the imagined video that they did during the Covid? During

664
00:32:20,750 --> 00:32:21,910
S1: the Covid pandemic?

665
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,510
S2: I'm putting it like 80% plus. That kind of turned

666
00:32:26,510 --> 00:32:27,600
S2: me off for good actually, as well.

667
00:32:27,650 --> 00:32:29,450
S1: I feel like that was a tipping point, right? In

668
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:32,240
S1: terms of just like sit this one out, guys.

669
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,960
S8: Imagine it every time. Every time you get a.

670
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:36,920
S3: Chance to sing.

671
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,900
S2: I know I actually can't watch a Gallagher film anymore

672
00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:39,530
S2: because of that.

673
00:32:39,530 --> 00:32:42,120
S1: So were you watching a lot of Gal Gadot films.

674
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,240
S2: Gal Gadot Gal before that?

675
00:32:55,980 --> 00:32:57,990
S1: All right. Let's talk about some culture. Let's talk about

676
00:32:57,990 --> 00:33:02,760
S1: what we are reading, watching, listening to. This is our

677
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,910
S1: regular Impress Your Friends segment where we get to talk

678
00:33:05,910 --> 00:33:09,540
S1: about something that we've been smashing that we want to

679
00:33:09,540 --> 00:33:12,420
S1: share and make. You guys sound very smart. Mel, you

680
00:33:12,420 --> 00:33:14,790
S1: are one of the smartest people I know. Why don't

681
00:33:14,790 --> 00:33:15,630
S1: you take it away?

682
00:33:15,630 --> 00:33:16,830
S2: Why did you do that?

683
00:33:17,910 --> 00:33:18,600
S8: Would you call.

684
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,700
S3: Me a bright young woman?

685
00:33:20,790 --> 00:33:22,950
S8: Because that is the.

686
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:25,080
S3: Book I am going to be talking about. It's actually

687
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,890
S3: called Bright Young Women. It's by Jessica Knoll. It's very buzzy.

688
00:33:28,890 --> 00:33:31,770
S3: It arrived on my desk with a fantastic cover. Old

689
00:33:31,770 --> 00:33:33,720
S3: magpie over here saw this.

690
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,100
S1: Oh, yeah. Thomas loves the.

691
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:36,450
S8: Fact he saw the sparkle.

692
00:33:36,450 --> 00:33:38,100
S3: He took it off my desk, put it on his,

693
00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:39,480
S3: and I was like, Please hand that back.

694
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,670
S2: I'll tell you why, though. Because it's another one. The

695
00:33:41,670 --> 00:33:44,460
S2: algorithm has been pushing it upon me hard. It's all

696
00:33:44,460 --> 00:33:44,969
S2: over Instagram.

697
00:33:44,980 --> 00:33:48,360
S3: Yeah, it's been super buzzy. I won't give too much away.

698
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,060
S3: And I actually, I picked it up without reading the back,

699
00:33:51,060 --> 00:33:52,950
S3: without reading any reviews. I was like, I'm going to

700
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:55,320
S3: go into this cold, which I've really enjoyed, so I

701
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,350
S3: won't give too much away. But it opens in Florida

702
00:33:58,350 --> 00:34:03,020
S3: State University, a sorority house where in the 1970s, Pamela,

703
00:34:03,030 --> 00:34:06,750
S3: head of the sorority, she wakes up at night. He's

704
00:34:06,750 --> 00:34:09,719
S3: a noise above her and then later on discovers two

705
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,590
S3: of her fellow sorority sisters have been killed and two

706
00:34:13,590 --> 00:34:17,100
S3: have been maimed. It sets on par the Pacey thriller,

707
00:34:17,100 --> 00:34:20,069
S3: but it is elevated above the kind of common thriller

708
00:34:20,070 --> 00:34:23,250
S3: by its exploration of how the world treats female victims

709
00:34:23,250 --> 00:34:26,370
S3: of crime. Jessica know that name might sound familiar to you.

710
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,080
S3: Did you guys watch The Luckiest Girl on.

711
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,070
S8: Netflix with the Mila?

712
00:34:29,070 --> 00:34:31,770
S3: Kunis Yeah, it was a bit of a weird movie

713
00:34:31,770 --> 00:34:34,649
S3: about this kind of high flying, glamorous New York writer

714
00:34:34,650 --> 00:34:37,589
S3: whose life unravels as she kind of addresses the trauma

715
00:34:37,590 --> 00:34:38,760
S3: from her past. But that was a.

716
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,530
S2: Bit of like a Netflix movie.

717
00:34:40,530 --> 00:34:41,040
S8: It was.

718
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,250
S3: Yeah. That was also Jessica Noble's books. So yeah, this

719
00:34:44,250 --> 00:34:46,319
S3: is a this is another one of hers. But I

720
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,049
S3: reckon this is the kind of beach book go to

721
00:34:49,050 --> 00:34:50,820
S3: for this summer. So yeah.

722
00:34:51,210 --> 00:34:53,400
S1: That's great. I can see that you guys have your

723
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,160
S1: beaches in Sydney and Melbourne. We've got Fitzroy Pool. I

724
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,170
S1: feel like this is going to be the one that

725
00:34:58,170 --> 00:34:59,940
S1: you see a lot there. It also sounds like it's

726
00:34:59,940 --> 00:35:01,529
S1: probably going to be adapted into something.

727
00:35:01,530 --> 00:35:03,120
S3: It already is. Yeah, they've.

728
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:03,810
S8: Sold the screen.

729
00:35:03,810 --> 00:35:05,850
S3: Right? So I think it's going to be another TV series.

730
00:35:05,850 --> 00:35:06,110
S8: Oh.

731
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:08,400
S2: I can't wait to talk about that in like six months.

732
00:35:10,110 --> 00:35:12,029
S3: And that's it from the bright young women on the pod.

733
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:13,440
S1: Thomas, take it away.

734
00:35:13,770 --> 00:35:17,250
S2: I am coming to you with an erotic thriller, which

735
00:35:17,250 --> 00:35:20,700
S2: is obviously the sexiest genre. This one's really good. It

736
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:22,800
S2: had a lot of buzz coming out of Sundance. It

737
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,960
S2: was actually picked up for a cool 20 million by

738
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,020
S2: Netflix at Sundance Film Festival this year. So basically it

739
00:35:28,020 --> 00:35:30,060
S2: is an erotic thriller, kind of in the vein of

740
00:35:30,060 --> 00:35:32,580
S2: like those great 80s and 90s thrillers that we love,

741
00:35:32,580 --> 00:35:35,400
S2: which are kind of having a resurgence right now. So

742
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,040
S2: it's directed by written and directed by Chloe Dumont. So

743
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,590
S2: you probably don't know her name, but she's it's weird.

744
00:35:40,590 --> 00:35:42,750
S2: She's basically directed a lot of like, she's like a

745
00:35:42,750 --> 00:35:46,380
S2: TV episode director, like, you know, jobbing director, I suppose

746
00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:48,420
S2: you would call her. So she's done like, Ballers. She

747
00:35:48,420 --> 00:35:50,580
S2: did that weird series. Clarice That was like The Silence

748
00:35:50,580 --> 00:35:52,739
S2: of the Lambs prequel. But she's got like a great

749
00:35:52,739 --> 00:35:56,340
S2: eye and I this I highly, highly recommend it to

750
00:35:56,340 --> 00:35:57,750
S2: you both. In fact, I texted you on the weekend

751
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:59,430
S2: and told you to watch it, and neither of you did.

752
00:35:59,430 --> 00:36:01,470
S1: Do you know it's actually funny. So this is my

753
00:36:01,469 --> 00:36:04,140
S1: complaint about how the modern world works. Now, you did

754
00:36:04,140 --> 00:36:05,550
S1: text this to me and I think I was out

755
00:36:05,550 --> 00:36:08,670
S1: doing something and then the next day I'm like, someone

756
00:36:08,670 --> 00:36:12,719
S1: texted me something to watch, but I wasn't sure whether

757
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,440
S1: they hit me on like Instagram or Facebook Messenger or

758
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,710
S1: like Apple Messenger or the one thing I didn't think

759
00:36:19,710 --> 00:36:22,529
S1: about was WhatsApp, where you message me. It's very hard

760
00:36:22,530 --> 00:36:26,610
S1: in 2023, like messaging people. There's just a lot of.

761
00:36:26,610 --> 00:36:28,230
S2: Yeah, that's why I think if you're listening, then the

762
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:30,779
S2: only place you could get your recommendations are from this

763
00:36:30,780 --> 00:36:32,130
S2: podcast in future.

764
00:36:32,130 --> 00:36:33,989
S3: Do you not have you don't use like a note.

765
00:36:33,989 --> 00:36:36,150
S3: I have like an ongoing notes on my phone where

766
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:38,430
S3: I put down kind of recommendations.

767
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:42,810
S1: No, I have like 75 live note documents.

768
00:36:42,900 --> 00:36:44,610
S8: I don't want to see the chaos.

769
00:36:44,610 --> 00:36:46,020
S2: And Osbourne's brain just like projected.

770
00:36:46,020 --> 00:36:46,779
S1: Onto it. Yeah it's.

771
00:36:46,830 --> 00:36:47,330
S8: It is.

772
00:36:47,530 --> 00:36:50,520
S1: It is either like recommendations or just like errant thoughts

773
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:51,960
S1: that come to my head or ideas for what we

774
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,610
S1: should talk about on the podcast. You don't want to

775
00:36:53,610 --> 00:36:54,810
S1: get into that conversation. There's like.

776
00:36:54,810 --> 00:36:55,680
S8: Seven hours of voice.

777
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,209
S2: Recording about killers of the Flower Moon.

778
00:36:57,210 --> 00:37:00,509
S1: Yeah, I do send voice notes to myself. Absolutely. Yeah.

779
00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:02,940
S2: Okay. So the movie is Fair Play. It is available

780
00:37:02,940 --> 00:37:06,150
S2: to stream on Netflix now. And basically we meet Emily

781
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:08,670
S2: and Luke, so there's kind of like cool, hot young couple.

782
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:10,620
S2: They get engaged at the very start of the film.

783
00:37:10,620 --> 00:37:14,160
S2: They work together at a really like high flying hedge fund.

784
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,910
S2: But basically company policy says you cannot have interoffice relationships.

785
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:21,000
S2: So essentially they live and work together. But at work

786
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,719
S2: they are like not public about their relationship. Then there's

787
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,480
S2: a promotional opportunity at work. Luke believes it is his

788
00:37:27,630 --> 00:37:29,730
S2: for the taking. And then of course, it goes to

789
00:37:29,730 --> 00:37:32,970
S2: Emily and so begins this kind of like domino effect

790
00:37:32,969 --> 00:37:36,140
S2: of power play and it becomes this this weird like

791
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:38,100
S2: psychosexual relationship that plays.

792
00:37:38,100 --> 00:37:40,320
S1: Out in this sounds both very sexy and thrilling.

793
00:37:40,330 --> 00:37:43,170
S2: Is, yeah, you will be aroused and thrilled, much like

794
00:37:43,170 --> 00:37:45,120
S2: I was. But no, it is really good. It stars

795
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,830
S2: Phoebe Dynevor from Bridgerton and Alden Ehrenreich, which I haven't.

796
00:37:49,830 --> 00:37:52,270
S2: He's from Solo, a Star Wars story which I haven't seen. Right.

797
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,680
S1: What are you talking about? Alden Ehrenreich. He's from Oppenheimer as. Well,

798
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,879
S1: he's the guy in Oppenheim. He's the assistant to the senator.

799
00:38:00,090 --> 00:38:01,920
S1: When Robert Downey Jr is doing his whole thing, he's

800
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:02,480
S1: trying to help him.

801
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,740
S2: He did look vaguely familiar. I didn't see Oppenheimer six

802
00:38:04,739 --> 00:38:06,630
S2: times like you, but like, he did look really familiar.

803
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:08,640
S2: And and he's great. And and the film really hinges

804
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,080
S2: on these two. But basically, in summary, very sexy, erotic thriller.

805
00:38:12,090 --> 00:38:14,880
S2: Lots of hedge fund talk, people in offices getting angry.

806
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,279
S2: It's great. Perfect for the weekend. I smashed it and

807
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,750
S2: I think you guys will love it and your friends

808
00:38:18,750 --> 00:38:19,410
S2: will be impressed.

809
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,620
S1: That's a great a great sell on a great sounding film.

810
00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:25,230
S1: I'm very excited to watch. I think Alden Ehrenreich I

811
00:38:25,230 --> 00:38:27,660
S1: think I think he's pretty good. I think he was.

812
00:38:27,660 --> 00:38:30,719
S1: I think Solo was like his attempt to really go

813
00:38:30,750 --> 00:38:33,870
S1: massive and it didn't really work out. But I think

814
00:38:33,870 --> 00:38:35,910
S1: he was in that Coen Brothers movie as well, about

815
00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:39,719
S1: the golden age of of Hollywood. Like there was a

816
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,310
S1: there was like a two year period where every movie

817
00:38:41,310 --> 00:38:42,690
S1: was about the golden age of Hollywood. He was in

818
00:38:42,690 --> 00:38:45,360
S1: one of those and he was quite good. So I'm

819
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,510
S1: excited to see this one. Mine is also a movie.

820
00:38:48,510 --> 00:38:51,240
S1: This is a film that's been out for a couple

821
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,340
S1: of months, but we haven't had a chance to talk

822
00:38:53,340 --> 00:38:55,680
S1: about it in depth on the pod, so I thought

823
00:38:55,770 --> 00:38:59,520
S1: we should rectify that. It is called Past Lives. It

824
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:04,020
S1: is stunning. It's written and directed by Canadian playwright Celine Song,

825
00:39:04,020 --> 00:39:07,890
S1: and it is her first ever feature film. And that

826
00:39:07,890 --> 00:39:11,070
S1: is infuriating because it is so good. Like it is

827
00:39:11,070 --> 00:39:16,140
S1: so taut and precise in terms of the writing, the directing,

828
00:39:16,140 --> 00:39:19,290
S1: the way it looks, the story, the emotional heft. It

829
00:39:19,290 --> 00:39:23,910
S1: is really astonishing. It basically follows this relationship between two

830
00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:26,880
S1: childhood friends who meet in Korea as young kids when

831
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,000
S1: they're 12. Then the main character played by Greta Lee,

832
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,340
S1: who was also just phenomenal in this, and I think

833
00:39:32,340 --> 00:39:35,010
S1: getting a little bit of Oscars buzz, She moves to

834
00:39:35,010 --> 00:39:38,040
S1: Toronto with her family, then moves to New York. They

835
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,340
S1: reconnect 12 years later on the Internet in the peak

836
00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:45,480
S1: Skype era. A lot of like the Skype ringtone stuff

837
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,700
S1: is in this movie. And then they reconnect 12 years

838
00:39:47,700 --> 00:39:51,509
S1: later in person. And if you're a fan of, like

839
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:55,529
S1: Noah Baumbach, Richard Linklater, kind of romance movies, Greta Gerwig,

840
00:39:55,530 --> 00:40:01,319
S1: you were going to love this film. It is about relationships, lust,

841
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,580
S1: what could have been identity culture like how you live,

842
00:40:05,580 --> 00:40:08,549
S1: what you live for, what love really is. I mean,

843
00:40:08,550 --> 00:40:10,950
S1: I'm getting a little bit carried away. It's like an

844
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:13,560
S1: hour and 40 minutes, so it's not too long. I

845
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,049
S1: think there's a chance this movie, like there's a lot

846
00:40:16,050 --> 00:40:18,720
S1: of big movies out this year in terms of the Oscars,

847
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,790
S1: I think there's a chance this one sneaks in to

848
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:25,080
S1: the best picture or best directed categories. The cinematography is

849
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,890
S1: also astonishing. I've never quite seen two cities like Seoul

850
00:40:28,890 --> 00:40:32,430
S1: in New York shot quite as beautifully as this one.

851
00:40:32,430 --> 00:40:34,020
S1: Really great film. Have you guys seen it?

852
00:40:34,020 --> 00:40:36,719
S2: I have not, but I must admit I've probably like

853
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:40,820
S2: probably my top tier recommending friends have all universally recommended this,

854
00:40:40,820 --> 00:40:43,440
S2: so I know that I'm probably going to really enjoy it.

855
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,270
S2: And a friend of mine saw it recently, was like

856
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:47,370
S2: walked out of the cinema and was like, I don't

857
00:40:47,370 --> 00:40:49,530
S2: I'm not a big crier in films, but I left

858
00:40:49,530 --> 00:40:52,740
S2: like really giving myself a good cry here. So yeah,

859
00:40:52,739 --> 00:40:54,570
S2: I mean, I'm very, very keen.

860
00:40:54,780 --> 00:40:57,029
S3: Yeah, have seen it. And it is as you've said,

861
00:40:57,060 --> 00:41:00,750
S3: was absolutely remarkable. A real treasure. It's so dreamy and

862
00:41:00,750 --> 00:41:04,830
S3: beautiful and poignant. And I think it is semi-autobiographical based

863
00:41:04,830 --> 00:41:07,500
S3: on her own kind of experience as well. But I mean,

864
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:10,440
S3: what an astonishing debut. Imagine pulling that off your first

865
00:41:10,450 --> 00:41:11,219
S3: star first.

866
00:41:11,460 --> 00:41:12,840
S1: It made me so mad. I'm like.

867
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,500
S8: Get out.

868
00:41:13,500 --> 00:41:15,660
S1: Of it. Like, that is so good. And in terms

869
00:41:15,660 --> 00:41:17,670
S1: of like the crying, like there's lots of bits in

870
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:20,400
S1: the movie that were both beautiful and sad. And I

871
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,860
S1: did a really good job of like, not crying. Do

872
00:41:22,860 --> 00:41:25,890
S1: you cry in movies? The movie? I sometimes do, yeah.

873
00:41:25,890 --> 00:41:27,570
S1: And the very end of the movie, I was just

874
00:41:27,570 --> 00:41:29,610
S1: I was like, No, I'm done, I'm out. I'm like,

875
00:41:29,610 --> 00:41:31,470
S1: I was weeping. I was like, that is beautiful. And

876
00:41:31,469 --> 00:41:33,390
S1: not not like it's not a spoiler. It's not like

877
00:41:33,390 --> 00:41:36,570
S1: anything particularly devastating or anything like that. It's just the

878
00:41:36,570 --> 00:41:38,700
S1: beauty of cinema.

879
00:41:38,700 --> 00:41:41,100
S2: Because you sobbed pretty hard at the end of Oppenheimer

880
00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:43,170
S2: because it was over. And then.

881
00:41:44,130 --> 00:41:46,020
S1: And then I realized I could watch it again straight away.

882
00:41:46,020 --> 00:41:46,500
S1: And I did.

883
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:47,670
S2: And then it would be Morning.

884
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:50,339
S1: Thomas and Mel, thanks for that chat. I think a

885
00:41:50,340 --> 00:41:52,710
S1: really good and important conversation. I think it's nice when

886
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:55,440
S1: we get to bust out of just talking about a

887
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,430
S1: particular release and have these more meta conversations around what

888
00:41:59,430 --> 00:42:02,250
S1: the point and role of art and culture is. So

889
00:42:02,250 --> 00:42:02,970
S1: thank you so much.

890
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:03,660
S2: Thanks for having me.

891
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,810
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.

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S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,

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S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.

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S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share the episode

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S1: with a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week.