1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,280 S1: We're here near the docks in Beirut. There are cranes, 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,720 S1: there are shipping containers. There are trucks going past. There's 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:12,000 S1: also a community here for displaced people in pretty makeshift shelters. 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,520 S1: What happens in this situation is that you get people 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,200 S1: who no longer have a home. Some of them have 6 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,759 S1: had their homes destroyed, or they live in constant anxiety 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,560 S1: about the fact that their home is standing now, but 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,120 S1: they don't know whether it'll be there tomorrow. And in 9 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,280 S1: this situation, it feels like the war can only go 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,760 S1: on because the people here are so angry about what's 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,720 S1: happened to them. It will not lead to peace. They 12 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,360 S1: don't think this is going to end well. 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,960 S2: I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're listening to Morning Edition 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,800 S2: from the Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. That was 15 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,040 S2: our correspondent, David Crowe, who with photojournalist Kate Geraghty, is 16 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,320 S2: reporting from Lebanon this week after the United States and 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:02,270 S2: Israel's war on Iran expanded to the region today. David 18 00:01:02,270 --> 00:01:11,310 S2: Crowe and Kate Geraghty join us from Beirut. Kate and David, 19 00:01:11,310 --> 00:01:13,869 S2: thank you so much for coming on the podcast. They're 20 00:01:13,910 --> 00:01:15,310 S2: on the ground in Lebanon. 21 00:01:15,630 --> 00:01:16,550 S3: Thanks for having us. 22 00:01:16,990 --> 00:01:18,190 S4: It's good to talk to you again. 23 00:01:18,590 --> 00:01:19,990 S5: Kate, can you just describe for. 24 00:01:19,990 --> 00:01:23,310 S2: Listeners where you and David are at the moment? And also, 25 00:01:23,550 --> 00:01:26,430 S2: Iran is, of course, the epicenter of this new outbreak 26 00:01:26,430 --> 00:01:28,709 S2: of war, but you're in Lebanon. Why? 27 00:01:29,950 --> 00:01:33,070 S6: So currently, we are in Beirut, the capital of Lebanon, 28 00:01:33,470 --> 00:01:35,789 S6: and we have come to Lebanon to report on the 29 00:01:35,790 --> 00:01:38,670 S6: hundreds of thousands of people who have had to flee 30 00:01:38,670 --> 00:01:42,310 S6: their homes due to the Israeli airstrikes and also the 31 00:01:42,310 --> 00:01:46,550 S6: forced evacuations, as the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah has 32 00:01:46,550 --> 00:01:50,910 S6: escalated due to the outbreak of war in Iran. We've 33 00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:58,190 S6: spent today traveling south of Beirut. We traveled through several villages. 34 00:01:58,710 --> 00:02:04,260 S6: Some were quite empty. We also went to a the 35 00:02:04,300 --> 00:02:08,940 S6: aftermath of a of a strike, an Israeli strike, and 36 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:12,780 S6: spent the the afternoon talking to people who have been 37 00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:14,940 S6: impacted by that strike. 38 00:02:17,900 --> 00:02:19,900 S2: And David, talk us through this. Can you tell us 39 00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:22,220 S2: a bit more about how Lebanon actually became part of 40 00:02:22,220 --> 00:02:25,780 S2: this war between Iran, the US and Israel? When did 41 00:02:25,780 --> 00:02:26,740 S2: this all begin? 42 00:02:27,660 --> 00:02:31,620 S4: It happened within days of Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu 43 00:02:32,419 --> 00:02:34,820 S4: launching those attacks on Iran. 44 00:02:36,940 --> 00:02:41,140 S7: New Israeli strikes hit Beirut's southern suburbs again, two days. 45 00:02:41,139 --> 00:02:44,500 S8: Of heavy airstrikes in the capital, Beirut, after Hezbollah began 46 00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:48,700 S8: firing on Israel earlier this week in support of its patron, Iran. 47 00:02:49,260 --> 00:02:54,380 S9: The Beirut bombardment. Israeli fighter jets launching strikes across the 48 00:02:54,380 --> 00:02:57,980 S9: Lebanese capital against claimed Hezbollah targets. 49 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,880 S4: It's like shock waves going around the world. The air 50 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,079 S4: strikes on Iran have had a direct impact on what's 51 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:11,080 S4: happening several countries away, because Hezbollah forces here have fired 52 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,600 S4: on Israel. Israel has fired back. And you get ordinary 53 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,560 S4: people in the south of Lebanon who are now caught 54 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,960 S4: up in war because of what's happened. That's totally outside 55 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,400 S4: their control. And they're the people that we've been talking 56 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,000 S4: to who've been displaced. And that's why I think it's 57 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:35,360 S4: so compelling. The impact is actually the greatest outside Iran itself, 58 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,960 S4: in terms of the number of people being killed, the 59 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,880 S4: number of people being wounded, and definitely the number of 60 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,880 S4: people being displaced from their homes. It's actually a huge 61 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,880 S4: impact here when you think that Lebanon only has a 62 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,400 S4: population of 6 million and you've got something like 400,000, 63 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,440 S4: probably more than 500,000 now who've been displaced from their homes. 64 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:00,310 S4: And for instance, today we were looking at a house 65 00:04:00,310 --> 00:04:04,470 S4: that had been destroyed. It was not in an evacuation zone. 66 00:04:05,590 --> 00:04:09,150 S4: So we were looking and talking to the people at 67 00:04:09,150 --> 00:04:13,430 S4: this site where, you know, it was it looked like 68 00:04:13,430 --> 00:04:16,150 S4: it had been a lovely house and it was totally destroyed, 69 00:04:16,750 --> 00:04:20,029 S4: but it wasn't in an area where Israel had said, 70 00:04:20,029 --> 00:04:23,630 S4: you must evacuate. And so the the zone, I think 71 00:04:23,630 --> 00:04:25,910 S4: if you if you can put it that way, is 72 00:04:25,910 --> 00:04:27,110 S4: widening by the day. 73 00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:34,110 S2: And so, David, tell us a bit more about that. 74 00:04:34,110 --> 00:04:37,029 S2: Tell us about where this once lovely home was that 75 00:04:37,029 --> 00:04:40,750 S2: wasn't in an evacuation area. And what did the people 76 00:04:40,750 --> 00:04:43,910 S2: around there say to you about what they're experiencing there 77 00:04:43,910 --> 00:04:44,630 S2: on the ground? 78 00:04:45,510 --> 00:04:47,790 S4: Oh, there's a lot of anger when we talk to people. 79 00:04:47,790 --> 00:04:51,229 S4: You can understand this. I find it fascinating that there 80 00:04:51,230 --> 00:04:53,790 S4: are so many different opinions about what's happening. You talk 81 00:04:53,790 --> 00:04:56,950 S4: to people with a range of backgrounds, but one common 82 00:04:56,950 --> 00:04:59,820 S4: theme is when you get a situation like this, you 83 00:04:59,820 --> 00:05:02,740 S4: get people who talk about the importance of resistance because 84 00:05:02,740 --> 00:05:07,420 S4: they feel that they are really under attack and they 85 00:05:07,420 --> 00:05:11,740 S4: don't say, we'll leave our homes and we'll just move 86 00:05:11,740 --> 00:05:14,460 S4: away because there's somewhere else we can live. We talk 87 00:05:14,460 --> 00:05:18,420 S4: to people who say, I'm not leaving my home. I 88 00:05:18,420 --> 00:05:21,300 S4: talked to a guy today whose parents are still in 89 00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:25,060 S4: the south of Lebanon because they refused to leave. They've 90 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:28,820 S4: left before in previous conflicts, and they refused to do 91 00:05:28,820 --> 00:05:31,180 S4: it this time because they don't enjoy not being in 92 00:05:31,220 --> 00:05:35,100 S4: their own home. So, I mean, I think Kate would 93 00:05:35,140 --> 00:05:38,140 S4: have seen this also in Ukraine, people who are near 94 00:05:38,140 --> 00:05:40,740 S4: the front, they want to stay in their communities even 95 00:05:40,779 --> 00:05:44,779 S4: though the risk is high. You do find people like this. Um, 96 00:05:44,820 --> 00:05:49,260 S4: and you find that it, it really fuels anger. And 97 00:05:49,260 --> 00:05:52,419 S4: you can see why each wave of conflict in the 98 00:05:52,420 --> 00:05:57,850 S4: Middle East only deepens the, the conditions that lead to 99 00:05:57,890 --> 00:05:59,330 S4: the next wave of conflict. 100 00:06:00,050 --> 00:06:01,610 S2: And tell us all, what does that actually look like? 101 00:06:01,610 --> 00:06:03,490 S2: So when people are in areas that have been hit 102 00:06:03,490 --> 00:06:05,450 S2: or they're near areas that have been hit, and it's 103 00:06:05,490 --> 00:06:07,970 S2: actually fueling their sense of resistance, like, no, we are 104 00:06:07,970 --> 00:06:10,850 S2: going to stay here. Are they living amongst rubble? Are 105 00:06:10,850 --> 00:06:13,250 S2: they living in makeshift tents? Like, what does it actually 106 00:06:13,250 --> 00:06:13,890 S2: look like? 107 00:06:15,250 --> 00:06:19,130 S6: Well, I mean, one thing is, is that the forced 108 00:06:19,130 --> 00:06:23,170 S6: evacuations and, you know, the people who've had to flee, 109 00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:29,210 S6: they're now living on footpaths. They're living in tents. They 110 00:06:29,250 --> 00:06:32,089 S6: are if they're lucky, they're in in a school that's 111 00:06:32,089 --> 00:06:35,730 S6: been converted to a shelter. The entire family is in 112 00:06:35,730 --> 00:06:41,529 S6: one room. They are sleeping, you know, in parks. They 113 00:06:41,570 --> 00:06:47,090 S6: are having their one meal, hot meal brought to them through, 114 00:06:47,130 --> 00:06:51,450 S6: you know, the rallying of community and local NGOs. And 115 00:06:51,650 --> 00:06:55,010 S6: you have to remember that this is winter. But then 116 00:06:55,010 --> 00:06:59,440 S6: when you go down outside of Beirut, there will be 117 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:04,200 S6: empty streets. There will be no traffic jams in other 118 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,960 S6: areas where they're trying to flee. There are people, uh, 119 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:14,880 S6: who are already, you know, relaying the bricks of, of a, 120 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,080 S6: of a wall, um, of the, the house that next door. 121 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:24,640 S6: People were killed in it is an enduring toll that 122 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,400 S6: civilians are or, or not, they're not even asked to 123 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,560 S6: forced upon it. They are forced to to pay. They, 124 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:37,040 S6: they bear the brunt of decisions by politicians and governments. 125 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,600 S10: And. Kate, this is your third. 126 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,720 S2: Time covering war in Lebanon. You were there just 18 127 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,960 S2: months ago. This was the last time Lebanon came under 128 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,560 S2: Israeli bombardment. So do you have a sense yet of 129 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,880 S2: whether there's, I guess, anything different this time around? 130 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,800 S6: Well, the first time I went to oh, I came 131 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,900 S6: to Lebanon, um, was actually 20 years ago. Uh, it 132 00:07:58,900 --> 00:08:03,980 S6: was a 2006 conflict between Hezbollah and Israel. And then 133 00:08:04,020 --> 00:08:08,820 S6: 18 months ago, uh, we were here before the ceasefire agreement, 134 00:08:09,380 --> 00:08:13,380 S6: and now we're back again. The one thing that, uh, 135 00:08:13,380 --> 00:08:17,580 S6: I would say is different from 20 years ago is 136 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:21,580 S6: that nowhere is safe in Lebanon for the civilian population, 137 00:08:21,820 --> 00:08:24,780 S6: anywhere can be targeted. The other thing is, is that 138 00:08:24,780 --> 00:08:28,540 S6: other countries have air raid alerts. Um, they have air 139 00:08:28,540 --> 00:08:32,260 S6: raid sirens. They have apps on their phones that will 140 00:08:32,260 --> 00:08:35,940 S6: tell them when there are, you know, incoming missiles in Lebanon, 141 00:08:35,940 --> 00:08:40,100 S6: there is no such luxury. You are given little or 142 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:43,940 S6: no notice. You might get a a text message or 143 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:47,580 S6: there might be a like a post on on social 144 00:08:47,580 --> 00:08:53,819 S6: media by the Israeli military or government. But many times 145 00:08:53,820 --> 00:08:59,810 S6: people have very, very little time to flee. Um, so 146 00:08:59,809 --> 00:09:04,890 S6: that would be the one rather large, you know, difference. 147 00:09:05,170 --> 00:09:09,090 S6: The other thing that, uh, never changes in war is 148 00:09:09,090 --> 00:09:11,329 S6: what we've been talking about before. And that's the cost 149 00:09:11,330 --> 00:09:15,330 S6: of war on civilians. I mean, there is over 400 150 00:09:15,330 --> 00:09:20,690 S6: people dead. There is over a thousand injured, and that's 151 00:09:20,690 --> 00:09:25,210 S6: in a week. So that that never changes. But one 152 00:09:25,210 --> 00:09:30,290 S6: thing that does remain the same is what I've always 153 00:09:30,290 --> 00:09:35,370 S6: seen in Lebanon is the dignity of, of civilians enduring 154 00:09:35,370 --> 00:09:38,809 S6: pretty much the unimaginable to people back home. 155 00:09:39,770 --> 00:09:42,449 S2: And what does that look like? How does that dignity manifest? 156 00:09:42,450 --> 00:09:43,489 S2: What are you seeing? 157 00:09:44,410 --> 00:09:47,730 S4: Well, I guess it's the fact that they have an 158 00:09:47,730 --> 00:09:50,890 S4: incredible resilience in the way they deal with this situation. 159 00:09:50,890 --> 00:09:55,560 S4: I talked to an accountant the other day who decided 160 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,440 S4: to get together with friends and set up a shelter 161 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,160 S4: for displaced people in a school that wasn't being fully used. 162 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:08,559 S4: And so that school became a shelter. Every classroom was 163 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:13,360 S4: turned into short term accommodation, and on the ground floor, 164 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,320 S4: on the concrete, they put up tents. But in the 165 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,040 S4: middle of that building, in a kind of a courtyard, 166 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,240 S4: a paved area where the kids would normally play. At lunchtime, 167 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,679 S4: all these fantastic children were playing. They were playing soccer. 168 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,120 S4: They came up to us. They loved talking to Kate. 169 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,520 S4: I mean, you know, once they saw that Kate was 170 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,400 S4: taking photographs, they were crowding around, looking at their photographs 171 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,679 S4: that Kate took. They're dealing with an incredibly difficult situation, 172 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,079 S4: but there's this spirit in the people dealing with it 173 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,280 S4: that shows how they can get through things like this. 174 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,400 S4: I spoke to a an old man who was sitting 175 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,439 S4: and watching this and sort of laughing as he watched 176 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:58,510 S4: the children. He's about 70. Lovely old man. He's seen 177 00:10:58,510 --> 00:11:01,830 S4: civil war. He's seen conflict after conflict after conflict. And 178 00:11:01,830 --> 00:11:04,870 S4: still he has this kind of ability to endure it. 179 00:11:05,470 --> 00:11:09,470 S4: And still I think, you know, enjoy those little moments 180 00:11:09,470 --> 00:11:12,070 S4: of the day where he's seeing the community around him. 181 00:11:12,309 --> 00:11:15,310 S4: Managed to get through it. Kate took a lovely photograph 182 00:11:15,309 --> 00:11:18,590 S4: of him as well. I think that's what you see. 183 00:11:18,830 --> 00:11:21,710 S4: Even in the hardest times. You see the spirit of 184 00:11:21,710 --> 00:11:23,790 S4: people being able to get through it. 185 00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:25,790 S2: After the break. 186 00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:32,830 S6: So the city is somewhat under strain. To answer your question, 187 00:11:32,950 --> 00:11:37,790 S6: I hope it doesn't continue. But, um, you know, I've 188 00:11:37,790 --> 00:11:42,430 S6: covered three wars, uh, with the same actors involved. 189 00:11:51,550 --> 00:11:53,590 S2: Kate, can you describe to us, I guess, what a 190 00:11:53,610 --> 00:11:55,890 S2: day has been like there, because so many of us 191 00:11:56,130 --> 00:11:59,250 S2: listening to you both have never thankfully been to a 192 00:11:59,250 --> 00:12:01,850 S2: war zone before. So I guess just tell us, what 193 00:12:01,850 --> 00:12:04,650 S2: is it like there? Where do you sleep? Can you sleep? 194 00:12:04,650 --> 00:12:07,490 S2: And how do you actually follow the story there? When 195 00:12:07,530 --> 00:12:10,730 S2: of course, there's always the threat or the reality of 196 00:12:10,850 --> 00:12:13,490 S2: bombs dropping attacks and the like. 197 00:12:14,650 --> 00:12:18,569 S6: Well, every day you approach it with the knowledge that 198 00:12:18,570 --> 00:12:23,050 S6: it will probably change from the way you've planned it. 199 00:12:23,850 --> 00:12:28,290 S6: It could be that airstrikes have happened in a certain place, 200 00:12:28,610 --> 00:12:32,850 S6: or you can't get to one location that you wanted 201 00:12:32,850 --> 00:12:36,890 S6: to go to because, you know, it's been turned into 202 00:12:36,890 --> 00:12:40,650 S6: a no go zone due to security reasons. Or the 203 00:12:40,650 --> 00:12:44,809 S6: person that you would want to meet, you know, has 204 00:12:44,809 --> 00:12:48,370 S6: had to make other plans themselves. So there's a lot 205 00:12:48,370 --> 00:12:54,319 S6: of uncertainty, uh, regarding sleep. I mean, Whatever wearing during 206 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:59,760 S6: is is absolutely minimal compared to what the civilian population 207 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,880 S6: are dealing with. Um, but what you do here as 208 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:09,959 S6: a constant is the sound of Israeli drones. They, it's 209 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:15,320 S6: just like this background. Hum. Uh, that canvasses the city. 210 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,280 S6: And then you could be woken up to the kind 211 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,880 S6: of the echo of, of Israeli war, um, or fighter jets. 212 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,800 S6: You might hear the thud of explosions. 213 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,880 S4: I find it to be a really strange time and 214 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:37,559 S4: place because you go down a crowded street, uh, there'll 215 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,560 S4: be cars double parked or triple parked because people are 216 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,080 S4: sleeping in those cars because they've driven in from the 217 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,760 S4: south of Lebanon into Beirut, parked the car, and that's 218 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:51,320 S4: their accommodation. At the very same time, there's a barber 219 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,790 S4: shop where the young blokes are getting their haircuts. As 220 00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:58,350 S4: if it's just another day. A few stores down, there's 221 00:13:58,350 --> 00:14:01,230 S4: a hardware store that's open. Then there's a carpet store 222 00:14:01,230 --> 00:14:04,270 S4: that's open. And if you go through the wealthier districts 223 00:14:04,270 --> 00:14:06,550 S4: of town, you find you can go into a store 224 00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:10,390 S4: and buy a Swiss watch. That is the nature of things. 225 00:14:10,390 --> 00:14:15,230 S4: But but that dichotomy in Beirut is jarring. It means that, 226 00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:18,510 S4: you know, we're not saying we're sleeping in tents. We're 227 00:14:18,510 --> 00:14:21,030 S4: very fortunate compared to the people who have come into 228 00:14:21,070 --> 00:14:26,510 S4: Beirut because they've been displaced. And so it's possible to 229 00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:29,830 S4: sit in a cafe and have a coffee and then 230 00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:32,750 S4: go for a short drive and go to a hill. 231 00:14:33,470 --> 00:14:36,270 S4: And from that hill, you look out over south Beirut 232 00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:40,350 S4: and you can see the strikes, you can see the flames, 233 00:14:40,350 --> 00:14:43,830 S4: you can see the black smoke rising over this neighborhood 234 00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:47,110 S4: in the south of the city. You go ten minutes 235 00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:49,430 S4: another way and you can go back to a coffee 236 00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:53,460 S4: while you look at the Mediterranean. So it's a very, um, 237 00:14:54,140 --> 00:14:58,020 S4: it's a strange time. And there is this anxiety about 238 00:14:58,020 --> 00:15:02,820 S4: what could happen next in this country when this chaos 239 00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:05,980 S4: and death has been unleashed. Um, only in the last 240 00:15:05,980 --> 00:15:06,940 S4: ten days or so. 241 00:15:07,940 --> 00:15:09,900 S2: Well, that's what I wanted to ask you, David, just 242 00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:13,180 S2: zooming out, what is the impact of this second front 243 00:15:13,180 --> 00:15:17,420 S2: of the Iran war, both in Lebanon and more widely 244 00:15:17,420 --> 00:15:18,420 S2: in the Middle East? 245 00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:23,140 S4: Well, everything changes because the Iranian regime is under such pressure. 246 00:15:24,060 --> 00:15:29,540 S4: There hasn't been a situation like this before, since 1979, 247 00:15:29,540 --> 00:15:35,580 S4: because the Islamic Republic dates from 1979. So that's 47 years. 248 00:15:36,020 --> 00:15:38,860 S4: And they're coming under pressure they have not seen before. 249 00:15:39,020 --> 00:15:43,380 S4: And that has consequences for every other part of the 250 00:15:43,380 --> 00:15:48,820 S4: region where there's been a group supported by the Islamic Republic. Um, 251 00:15:48,820 --> 00:15:53,690 S4: and that changes things in Lebanon because of Hezbollah. We 252 00:15:53,730 --> 00:15:55,930 S4: drove through a neighborhood today where there was a large 253 00:15:56,410 --> 00:16:01,770 S4: poster of the former supreme leader of Iran. There are 254 00:16:01,770 --> 00:16:06,450 S4: people here who saw him as a as a guiding light, 255 00:16:07,130 --> 00:16:09,210 S4: but they no longer have the same level of support 256 00:16:09,210 --> 00:16:12,290 S4: from Iran. And that changes the dynamic here. And I 257 00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:15,450 S4: think that's a big explanation for why Israel now sees 258 00:16:15,450 --> 00:16:21,930 S4: this this moment to intensify its attacks on Hezbollah and 259 00:16:21,930 --> 00:16:24,730 S4: this southern part of Lebanon and other parts of Lebanon 260 00:16:24,730 --> 00:16:27,530 S4: in a way that may be quite different. We don't 261 00:16:27,530 --> 00:16:29,970 S4: really know how that's going to play out, but it's 262 00:16:29,970 --> 00:16:33,810 S4: certainly a time where where there's a lot of anxiety 263 00:16:33,810 --> 00:16:35,410 S4: about how much worse it could get. 264 00:16:35,730 --> 00:16:38,010 S2: This is what I've been wondering. Might this conflict between 265 00:16:38,010 --> 00:16:41,650 S2: Israel and Lebanon continue? No matter what happens with Iran, 266 00:16:41,650 --> 00:16:44,970 S2: as in, might Israel and Hezbollah just continue attacking each other? 267 00:16:45,330 --> 00:16:47,650 S2: Even if Iran and the US were to sign a 268 00:16:47,650 --> 00:16:49,330 S2: ceasefire or something like that. 269 00:16:50,250 --> 00:16:56,430 S6: Even after the 2024 ceasefire agreement, there have been violations. 270 00:16:56,950 --> 00:17:00,990 S6: Communities have not been able to been able to return. 271 00:17:01,350 --> 00:17:04,750 S6: So the people who have been fleeing the South and 272 00:17:04,750 --> 00:17:11,430 S6: also Bekaa and also the southern suburbs are joining some 273 00:17:11,430 --> 00:17:16,230 S6: of the tens of thousands that had fled in 2024. 274 00:17:16,750 --> 00:17:22,750 S6: So the city is somewhat under strain. To answer your question, 275 00:17:22,950 --> 00:17:27,790 S6: I hope it doesn't continue. But, um, you know, I've 276 00:17:27,790 --> 00:17:32,430 S6: covered three wars, uh, with the same actors involved. 277 00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:38,710 S4: Also, we've talked to people who don't think it ever 278 00:17:38,710 --> 00:17:43,470 S4: really stopped. They see this as just another phase in 279 00:17:43,470 --> 00:17:48,390 S4: a long war. Um, and that, you know, academics could 280 00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:51,900 S4: argue over that, right? And politicians would argue over that. 281 00:17:52,260 --> 00:17:54,660 S4: But I'm just saying what people tell you when you 282 00:17:54,660 --> 00:17:57,699 S4: walk through a shelter for displaced people, they see it 283 00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:00,420 S4: as a constant war and they see their task as 284 00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:01,540 S4: constant resistance. 285 00:18:08,780 --> 00:18:11,700 S2: Well, David and Kate, we are so lucky to be 286 00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:14,300 S2: reporting with you. Listeners wouldn't have known this, but right 287 00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:17,459 S2: before we started recording, your electricity went out, such as 288 00:18:17,460 --> 00:18:20,260 S2: the conditions that you're in. So thank you so much, 289 00:18:20,460 --> 00:18:21,500 S2: both for your time. 290 00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:22,899 S6: Thank you. 291 00:18:22,940 --> 00:18:24,100 S4: Thanks for having us on. 292 00:18:28,820 --> 00:18:32,980 S11: Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong. Our executive producer 293 00:18:32,980 --> 00:18:36,139 S11: is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa 294 00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:40,020 S11: Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow 295 00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:42,500 S11: The Morning Edition and leave a review for us on 296 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:45,380 S11: Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.