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Speaker 1: Nine podcasts.

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Speaker 2: The ground prosecutor finishes her closing arguments, telling the jury

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Speaker 2: the accused killer engaged in multiple calculated deceptions, alleging she

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Speaker 2: persisted with telling lies even when the lunch guests were

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Speaker 2: gravely ill, and accusing her of trying to play the jury.

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Speaker 3: Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives

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Speaker 3: an Australian family's meal is now the center of a

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Speaker 3: homicide investigation.

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Speaker 1: The bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines.

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Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch

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Speaker 3: she'd serve them at her home.

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Speaker 1: I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this

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Speaker 1: level of media and public interest.

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Speaker 2: Four of the guests of that lunch were much loved

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Speaker 2: members of this church.

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Speaker 4: Only one will ever return.

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Speaker 1: People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people.

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Speaker 2: Today, Aaron Pattison remained here inside her home.

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Speaker 4: She's continued to plead her innocence in a court room

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Speaker 4: in Country Victoria.

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Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using death cat

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Speaker 2: mushrooms to kill She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three

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Speaker 2: of her former in laws and attempting to kill a

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Speaker 2: fourth the town's church pastor. It's up to the jurors

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Speaker 2: to decide what happened when Patterson's loved ones sat down

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Speaker 2: to eat. The prosecution has now finished the closing arguments

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Speaker 2: to the jury in this case, and initially Nnette Rogers

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Speaker 2: told the jurors there were four calculated deceptions that she'd

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Speaker 2: take them through. There was then a little surprise, an

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Speaker 2: extra bit that came, which you'll hear a little bit

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Speaker 2: later in this episode. But let's start off with what

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Speaker 2: happened when Nannette Rogers got to her feet to make

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Speaker 2: these final submissions.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she got to court pretty early, rearing and ready

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Speaker 3: to go. As she took to her feet, she moved

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Speaker 3: the lef turn in front of her to face directly

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Speaker 3: to the jury, So she therefore had her back to

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Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson, who is now in the dock and was

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Speaker 3: facing directly to the jury. Penny, And at this point

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Speaker 3: I noticed that she opened a red bind of folder

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Speaker 3: and in it were pages and pages of printed notes

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Speaker 3: in paragraphs, which is how we've seen her bring her

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Speaker 3: notes to court throughout the whole trial. And she really

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Speaker 3: started off with a bang straight away telling the jury,

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Speaker 3: these are the four things that I'm going to take

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Speaker 3: you through in particular. But it was in that fifth

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Speaker 3: surprise element, Petty, that really had I guess everybody in

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Speaker 3: the court room, the jurors, members of the public, and

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Speaker 3: the media thinking, well, what's this. We thought that we're

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Speaker 3: only going to have four, but essentially there was a fifth.

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Speaker 2: Now, this closing has gone over multiple days, and we're

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Speaker 2: going to take you through in chronological order and the

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Speaker 2: topics that Nanette.

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Speaker 4: Rodgers took the jury through.

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Speaker 2: So to start off with, let's hear what she said

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Speaker 2: about these initial four calculated deceptions.

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Speaker 4: These are her words. It's voiced by an actor.

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Speaker 1: Members of the jury. The twenty ninth of July twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three lunch was arranged by the accused. Each of

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Speaker 1: the guests were thereby her invitation. She alone chose what

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Speaker 1: to cook, obtained the ingredients, and prepared the meal. Despite

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Speaker 1: the recipe being for a single dish intended to be

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Speaker 1: cut into smaller serves, the accused made individual portions. That

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Speaker 1: choice to make individual portions allowed her complete control over

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Speaker 1: the ingredients in each individual parcel. It is a control

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Speaker 1: the prosecution says that she exercised with devastating effect. It

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Speaker 1: allowed her to give the appearance of sharing in the

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Speaker 1: same meal whilst ensuring that she did not consume a

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Speaker 1: beef Wellington parcel that she had laced with death cap mushrooms.

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Speaker 1: Each of the deliberately poisoned parcels was served and consumed

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Speaker 1: by only Header and Ian Wilkinson and Don and Gail Patterson.

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Speaker 1: What are the reasonable possibility he can explain why all

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Speaker 1: of the lunch guests became so gravely ill with death

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Speaker 1: cat mushroom poisoning, but that the accused did not. At

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Speaker 1: the heart of this case r four calculated deceptions made

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Speaker 1: by the accused.

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Speaker 2: Now, the first of these alleged four deceptions that make

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Speaker 2: up this case that Nanette Rogers sc took the jury

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Speaker 2: to is what the prosecution alleged is this cancer lie.

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Speaker 2: And they say the reason why Aaron Patterson held this

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Speaker 2: lunch in the first place and why she invited her

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Speaker 2: loved ones over to her home.

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Speaker 3: Yes, she said that the that Pattison's fake cancer diagnosis

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Speaker 3: really gave her lunch guests a reason to attend what

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Speaker 3: Annette Rogers says was otherwise a really unusual lunch and

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Speaker 3: she started explaining in her words that the accused painted

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Speaker 3: a picture of a gathering that wasn't just social. This

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Speaker 3: wasn't just a social catch up. It was a catch

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Speaker 3: up where the kids would be absent. And the prosecutor

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Speaker 3: said that that alone emphasized the serious nature of the

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Speaker 3: matter that the accused allegedly wanted to discuss.

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Speaker 4: And we'll hear.

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Speaker 2: Throughout the evidence as well as what we're talking about

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Speaker 2: a lot of references to different witnesses and their evidence.

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Speaker 2: That's how the prosecution is laying out their arguments. So

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Speaker 2: as part of this element and this sort of subtopic

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Speaker 2: that she was talking about with the jury, and Neette

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Speaker 2: Rodgers noted that the daughter of Aaron Patterson, who's given

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Speaker 2: evidence via the recorded video interview with police, had mentioned

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Speaker 2: that her mum wanted to discuss adult things, yes, just

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Speaker 2: with the adults at this lunch, and.

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Speaker 4: She said that the jury should really consider.

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Speaker 2: That and take on board that and some evidence from

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Speaker 2: other witnesses, including Simon Patterson and Ian Wilkinson, that this

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Speaker 2: was the purpose of the lunch, was to discuss something

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Speaker 2: just for adults and something quite serious, and in her

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Speaker 2: leaning towards this being something of a serious medical nature,

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Speaker 2: and she touched on Ian Wilkinson's evidence of this being

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Speaker 2: a life threatening diagnosis and a life threatening situation that

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Speaker 2: she'd found herself in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Rogers also reminded the jury that when Simon Patterson

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Speaker 3: declined to attend Penny, the accused expressed irritation at this

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Speaker 3: and telling him quote, I may not be able to

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Speaker 3: host a lunch like this again for some time. The

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Speaker 3: prosecution alleged that was sent in an attempt to change

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Speaker 3: Simon Patterson's mind and get him to attend.

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Speaker 2: Nannette Rodgers also spoke about in this part of her

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Speaker 2: closing address that it was the planting of a seed,

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Speaker 2: that there was a research that Aaron Patterson had conducted.

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Speaker 2: She said this was pre planned, but that in the texts,

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Speaker 2: particularly that the jury have been shown between Gail Patterson

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Speaker 2: and Aaron Patterson, that there was evidence, she says, of

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Speaker 2: this seed being planted of I'm getting a biopsy, yes,

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Speaker 2: algo biopsy, and then I'm going to get an MRI,

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Speaker 2: and that Gail had then written in her diary. As

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Speaker 2: the jury has been taken through on this particular date,

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Speaker 2: around a month before Aaron Saint Vincent's and the evidence

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Speaker 2: that they've been shown through medical appointments and things that

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Speaker 2: were conveyed to family to plant this seed that something

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Speaker 2: was really seriously wrong with her health.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then another part to that as well was

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Speaker 3: this making sure that the children weren't their penny. The

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Speaker 3: way that Ninette Rogers explained it to the jury today

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Speaker 3: was their case is that this was done to ensure

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Speaker 3: that they wouldn't be harmed, to ensure that there was

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Speaker 3: no way that they could eat this poisoned lunch. And

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Speaker 3: we heard a little bit more about the kids and

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Speaker 3: they what they said in their statements throughout the prosecution closings,

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Speaker 3: but essentially it was wrapped up and summarized this particular

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Speaker 3: chapter almost of the closings as being an elaborate lie.

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Speaker 1: You heard the evidence of Professor Andrew Burston, the intensive

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Speaker 1: care specialist who examined her medical records and found no

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Speaker 1: evidence that she had received a cancer diagnosis. And of

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Speaker 1: course here in court the accused agreed she had never

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Speaker 1: been diagnosed with cancer. You might be wondering why on

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Speaker 1: earth would she tell such a lie. Well, the prosecution

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Speaker 1: says that the accused never thought she would have to

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Speaker 1: account for this lie. She did not think her lunch

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Speaker 1: guests would live to reveal it. Her lie would die

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Speaker 1: with them.

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Speaker 2: Now, the next topic that the Crown prosecutor took the

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Speaker 2: jury to was the fact that the prosecution alleged Aaron

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Speaker 2: Patterson deliberately sawce deathcap mushrooms and that she then placed

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Speaker 2: them into this pre planned, organized special meal that she

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Speaker 2: wanted to have her family members come and eat with her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been referred to throughout the trial as the lunch,

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Speaker 3: but this was one of the ways that Nannette Rogers

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Speaker 3: described this particular alleged deception as well as being the

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Speaker 3: lunch and being the second deception. She was explaining to

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Speaker 3: the jury that it's the lethal doses of poison that

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Speaker 3: the prosecution say Patterson sought out and then disguise in

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Speaker 3: this beef Wellington that really made up this particular category.

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Speaker 3: And she started off by explaining to the jury that

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Speaker 3: it was Aaron Patterson who chose the meal, who chose

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Speaker 3: to serve this particular style of the meal that deviated

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Speaker 3: from the recipe book, and that she was solely in

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Speaker 3: charge of sourcing the ingredients as well. We have heard

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Speaker 3: earlier from the parts of the trial that Aaron Patterson

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Speaker 3: had said that she wanted to cook something special, something fancy.

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Speaker 3: But Rogers maintains that despite this, and despite getting on

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Speaker 3: the standard and saying this to the jury, that at

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Speaker 3: no point did Aaron Patterson tell her guest that wild

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Speaker 3: mushrooms would be in the meal, and that she really

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Speaker 3: didn't follow that recipe book the way that it was

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Speaker 3: explained to her.

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Speaker 2: In touching on that, the Crown prosecutor mentioned that Aaron Patterson,

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Speaker 2: she alleges, sought specifically out the individual stakes to make

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Speaker 2: individual portions of beef Wellington rather than the Logs style

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Speaker 2: larger piece of meat than the recipe tin eats recipe

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Speaker 2: actually called for, and she noted in her closing that

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Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson, she says, not only sought out that meat,

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Speaker 2: but so that she could create these individual parcels and

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Speaker 2: so that she could be certain that there would be

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Speaker 2: a parcel for her to eat, that the prosecution alleges,

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Speaker 2: wasn't poisoned and that's that so.

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Speaker 3: She got avoid poisoning herself.

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Speaker 2: To go a step further, they say the reason Aaron

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Speaker 2: Patterson was or the way they say Aaron Patterson was

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Speaker 2: ensuring she wouldn't eat that was with a different colored plate,

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Speaker 2: and to explain that, they went back to the evidence

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Speaker 2: of Ian Wilkinson. These are some of the words of

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Speaker 2: Nnette Rogers.

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Speaker 1: Sc Ian Wilkinson told you that the accused plated the

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Speaker 1: food by herself. He gave clear evidence of four matching

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Speaker 1: large gray dinner plates, not dark or light gray, but

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Speaker 1: a sort of middle gray color was his evidence. And

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Speaker 1: then a fifth smaller orangey tan colored plate. Under cross examination,

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Speaker 1: he conveyed no doubt about what he had seen. There

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Speaker 1: were four plates that the same, they were gray, and

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Speaker 1: there was one smaller, different colored plate. Ian Wilkinson was

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Speaker 1: a compelling witness who was able to recall a substantial

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Speaker 1: amount of detail about the lunch. You might recall him

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Speaker 1: describing the discussions at the house about a sick looking

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Speaker 1: tree and the accused pantry. He had a clear memory

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Speaker 1: of where everyone sat at the dining table during the lunch,

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Speaker 1: and you will remember the photo where he marked where

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Speaker 1: people were sitting at the dining table. He had a

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Speaker 1: clear memory of exactly what was served at the lunch.

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Speaker 1: The individual wholly encased pasty type beef wellington, mashed potato

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Speaker 1: and green beans. You will have no trouble in being

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Speaker 1: satisfied that he is a reliable witness, and you can

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Speaker 1: confidently accept what he told you about the details of

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Speaker 1: the lunch, including the four gray plates and the fifth

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Speaker 1: odd plate. Of course, as you have heard, Ian was

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Speaker 1: not the only person to know not the different plate.

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Speaker 1: Heather Wilkinson said to Simon Patterson on the Sunday morning

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Speaker 1: that she noticed Aaron served herself her food on a

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Speaker 1: colored plate which was different to the rest. This was

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Speaker 1: clearly something that's stuck in Heather's mind.

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Speaker 2: It was noteworthy the prosecutor put to the jury that

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Speaker 2: this website I Naturalist, then they've heard a lot about

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Speaker 2: She alleges that Aaron Patterson had the knowledge to use

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Speaker 2: that website, that she'd visited that website back in May

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, bit over a year before the lunch

225
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Speaker 2: was put to the jury. This evidence that they've seen

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Speaker 2: a number of times of the particular search for I

227
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Speaker 2: Naturalist and then the narrowing in on a map of

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Speaker 2: Victoria for deathcap mushroom sightings.

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Speaker 4: At the same time that there was a.

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Speaker 2: Search for the curran Borough Middle Pub and that purchase

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Speaker 2: that was made with Aaron Patterson's details for a family

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Speaker 2: dinner at that time.

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Speaker 4: The prosecutor really put to the jury.

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Speaker 2: That they should take on board this evidence as being

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Speaker 2: an example of Aaron Patterson, they say, being able to

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Speaker 2: use that website, using that website to look for death

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Speaker 2: cat mushrooms at that particular occasion, and they said that

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Speaker 2: she also had the knowledge to blitz these mushrooms up,

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Speaker 2: as heard through the evidence of her estranged husband, Simon Patterson,

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Speaker 2: in a conversation they had at the hospital with their

241
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Speaker 2: children of how she had hidden mushrooms before in muffins

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Speaker 2: for their daughter to taste test. Nanette Rogers sc referred

243
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Speaker 2: to that as being a knowledge base for Aaron Patterson

244
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Speaker 2: and an example of her blitzing up mushrooms before, and

245
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Speaker 2: that this was something she knew how to do well

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Speaker 2: at this time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then she explained a little bit further about

248
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Speaker 3: the fact that any suggestion that wild mushrooms were added

249
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Speaker 3: accidentally should should be rejected, not only for the reasons

250
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Speaker 3: that you just said, Penny, but also that we heard

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Speaker 3: from this expert witness, Tom May and he'd said that

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Speaker 3: he'd dried death cat mushrooms in the past as part

253
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Speaker 3: of his job, and he recalled them smelling very, very unpleasant,

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Speaker 3: and that was unlikely then that somebody would put something

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Speaker 3: that smelt really, really unpleasant deliberately into a meal that

256
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,000
Speaker 3: was supposed to be special In connecting these dots here

257
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Speaker 3: as she was doing today, that's when she spoke a

258
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,280
Speaker 3: little bit more about the fact that because they would

259
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,559
Speaker 3: have smelt very unpleasant, it's a prosecution's case that it's

260
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Speaker 3: unlikely that deathcat mushrooms would have then just been chopped up.

261
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Speaker 3: They would have had to have been blitzed into a

262
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 3: powder to be then hidden into the food. And this

263
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 3: is something the accused had told her online friends as

264
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Speaker 3: well that she'd done before, as she mentioned with the

265
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,760
Speaker 3: muffins as well, that experimentation and it was another type

266
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,880
Speaker 3: of experimentation as well that Nanette Rogers put to the

267
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,200
Speaker 3: jury was part of this particular deception, and that was

268
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Speaker 3: within days of purchasing a food dehydrator we know happened

269
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 3: in April twenty twenty three. The prosecution say that Patterson

270
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 3: undertook a test run with button mushrooms and then took

271
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,320
Speaker 3: photographs with the device and then sent them to her

272
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 3: online friends. Test run it was another part of that

273
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,600
Speaker 3: experimentation that the prosecution allege happened before deathcap mushrooms were

274
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,200
Speaker 3: actually picked forage and then put into the dehydrator before

275
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 3: going into the meal.

276
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Speaker 2: Now, the third point that the prosecution took the jury

277
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,320
Speaker 2: through as part of these closing arguments sort of subheadings,

278
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,600
Speaker 2: was that they say Aaron Patterson was attempting to make

279
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,640
Speaker 2: herself look sick so that medical professionals and other people

280
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,000
Speaker 2: would think she had ingested the deathcap mushrooms, because they

281
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,480
Speaker 2: allege if she wasn't seen to be sick like her

282
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,440
Speaker 2: lunch guests, that would be suspicious.

283
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, the prosecution maintained that Aaron Patterson wasn't sick, and

284
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Speaker 3: so these attempts to make it look so were to

285
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:41,800
Speaker 3: try and cover her tracks a little bit or to

286
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,440
Speaker 3: disguise her crimes. Is the way that the prosecution explained it.

287
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,760
Speaker 3: And as part of this third deception, the prosecution said

288
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,160
Speaker 3: the accused of different accounts of when she became sick

289
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 3: to different people. There was lots of different ways the

290
00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:00,120
Speaker 3: prosecution alleged the evidence contradicted itself, and there was a

291
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,720
Speaker 3: lot of back and forth about these different things. But yeah,

292
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 3: one of those elements of this being unwow was when

293
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 3: was she sick? How sick was she before she even

294
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 3: made it to the hospital.

295
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,880
Speaker 2: And one of those points that the prosecution went back

296
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:15,720
Speaker 2: to a number of times, as you said, was that

297
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:21,120
Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson, their prosecution alleged, through Simon Patterson's evidence, initially

298
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 2: told him that she'd become ill about this four four

299
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,840
Speaker 2: thirty time on the Saturday afternoon. Now that's about an

300
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,720
Speaker 2: hour and an hour and a half since the gun

301
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,000
Speaker 2: lunch guests left her home. The other lunch guests all

302
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 2: became ill sort of after eleven thirty around midnight one

303
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 2: am following that lunch, and the jury was told some

304
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 2: evidence that had come through one of the doctors at

305
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 2: one of the hospitals that this was an initial flag

306
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,160
Speaker 2: for some of these medical professionals, that this may have

307
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 2: been a mushroom poisoning incident rather than regular food poisoning,

308
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 2: because the prosecution says in the evidence that the jury

309
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 2: has heard from these witnesses, usually food poisoning sets in

310
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,720
Speaker 2: within a couple of hours, which it appeared with what

311
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 2: Patterson was talking about with her symptoms, that they were

312
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 2: relatively soon to having eaten the meal, but that it

313
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 2: was these lunch guests who became gravely ill and three

314
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 2: of whom lost their lives. Actually, they had become sicker

315
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,760
Speaker 2: much later in terms of the onset of their particular symptoms.

316
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,199
Speaker 3: Two to three hours for the onset of sort of

317
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,640
Speaker 3: gas stro or food poisoning related symptoms, but twelve hours

318
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,439
Speaker 3: typically round about four deathcat mushroom poisoning. And it was

319
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,159
Speaker 3: the on call toxicologist at the dating On hospital. The

320
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,880
Speaker 3: jury were reminded today that was the one that put

321
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,639
Speaker 3: those pieces together, along with the doctor who was working

322
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,480
Speaker 3: at lean at the hospital. The two of them had

323
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 3: a foreign conversation and that's when deathcat mushroom poisoning was

324
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 3: really put on their radar for the first time. But

325
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 3: we also then heard a little bit about what happened

326
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,120
Speaker 3: the day after the lunch Penny and the prosecution was saying,

327
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,080
Speaker 3: this is another example of why Aaron Pattison couldn't have

328
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,879
Speaker 3: been as ill as she was telling health officials and

329
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,080
Speaker 3: friends and family she really was, and that was a

330
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,679
Speaker 3: long two hour round trip. We heard that she was

331
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Speaker 3: taking her son to a flying lessons in tai Ab,

332
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,359
Speaker 3: but it was at this time she also had told

333
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 3: later on a health Department official that she had explosive diary.

334
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 3: During this time, Sonette Rodgers was explaining to the jury

335
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,160
Speaker 3: that there was these different versions of events happening. Could

336
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,919
Speaker 3: somebody with explosive diary driver to our around trip and

337
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 3: not have an accident, and that these were the different

338
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,960
Speaker 3: pieces of evidence that we'd heard over the last month

339
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,920
Speaker 3: or so that Nenette Rogers was really putting together and

340
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 3: trying to convince the jury why they should side with

341
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 3: the prosecution in this case.

342
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,880
Speaker 2: And as some of this, what the prosecution was also

343
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 2: touching on was the Saturday night trip in taking the

344
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,240
Speaker 2: friend's son home after the lunch that Aaron Patterson had

345
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,159
Speaker 2: told Simon Patterson and other people that she had taken

346
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,880
Speaker 2: this boy home at around seven seven thirty, that she'd

347
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,760
Speaker 2: then taken her son to subway, And the prosecution was

348
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,919
Speaker 2: putting to the jury why would she have made that

349
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,119
Speaker 2: stop when she'd also told other witnesses that at that

350
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 2: point she was really worried that she wasn't really well

351
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,640
Speaker 2: enough and she wouldn't really make it through other sort

352
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 2: of trips without an accident. Why is that she was

353
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,720
Speaker 2: then stopping to get a takeaway meal? But the jury

354
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 2: was then taken to another day after the lunch, being

355
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 2: the Monday, the thirty first, the day Aaron Patterson first

356
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,160
Speaker 2: presented at the Lee and Gatha Hospital, and they were

357
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 2: told that when she first presented that she seemed, on

358
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,520
Speaker 2: the prosecution's allegation, reluctant to have treatment, but reluctant even

359
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 2: to come.

360
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:32,879
Speaker 4: Into the hospital.

361
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 2: That the prosecution put to the jury that it was

362
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 2: this point when she arrived that it was put to

363
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 2: her that there might be mushroom poisoning. That that was

364
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 2: the first time she, they alleged, realized that there was

365
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 2: a concern about deathcat mushroom poisoning and that there was

366
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 2: a concern that perhaps she may have something to do

367
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 2: with that, and that's why the prosecution alleged that she

368
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 2: left the hospital at.

369
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 3: That time and for almost two hours.

370
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 2: Penny, Yeah, they say that that one hour and thirty

371
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 2: eight minutes that she left for that she had done

372
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,160
Speaker 2: that because she realized what the doctors and nurses were

373
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 2: thinking and therefore didn't want to be in that place.

374
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 2: So the prosecutor touched on some evidence from some of

375
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 2: the nurses, one who said that she couldn't get Aaron

376
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 2: Patterson to come in and initially get her observations taken properly.

377
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,120
Speaker 2: She'd said that it was to prepare things for her children.

378
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 2: She'd said it was to prepare things for her animals.

379
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 2: She'd also said that it was to pack her daughter's

380
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 2: ballet bag. But it was touched on quite a bit

381
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 2: by the prosecutor that she'd also said to her estranged husband,

382
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,480
Speaker 2: Simon Patterson, on his evidence that when she went to

383
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 2: her home at land Gatha, that she'd laid down on

384
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,199
Speaker 2: the floor for around forty five minutes and fallen asleep,

385
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,360
Speaker 2: and the prosecutor put to the jury that even if

386
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 2: that was the case, the prosecutor says that she feels

387
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,679
Speaker 2: that's an unlikely thing for someone to do in this

388
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 2: situation when they knew other people were sick in hospital

389
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,679
Speaker 2: and they themselves had these symptoms, but that even if

390
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 2: she did lay down for forty five minutes, that doesn't

391
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: account for the entire space of time. And that's when

392
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 2: the prosecutor also said to the jury that they had

393
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 2: seen CCTV some security footage of Aaron Patterson leaving that hospital,

394
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 2: and she put to the jury that there was nothing

395
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 2: to indicate that she was weak or unable to walk

396
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 2: in that particular footage that she'd driven away from the

397
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 2: hospital and eventually after that hour and thirty eight minutes

398
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 2: she drove herself back.

399
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Nnette Rogers took quite a bit of time

400
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 3: comparing who said what at one point as well explaining

401
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 3: to the jury that it was this witness that said

402
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 3: this in contradiction to what the accused were saying, and

403
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,360
Speaker 3: that at this point this other witness had said this

404
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 3: really painting a picture of the prosecution case in fine detail.

405
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 4: And she also spoke.

406
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 2: About as part of that what Aaron Patterson was doing

407
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 2: at different times compared to her lunch guests who were growing,

408
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 2: as the prosecution says, sicker and sicker.

409
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 4: Here's some more of the words as the jury heard it.

410
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 1: Nurse Miriam Sespond did one on one nursing care for

411
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,400
Speaker 1: Heather Wilkinson, while another nurse did the same one on

412
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 1: one care for Ian. This is the same morning that

413
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: the accused drove her to children to the bus stop

414
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,400
Speaker 1: and then drove herself to hospital on that say, day

415
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: thirty one July. By the time Ian and Heather Wilkinson

416
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: were also transferred to Dandenong Hospital. Ian was reported to

417
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 1: be extremely nauseated and constantly vomiting. That was the evidence

418
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 1: of doctor Mark Douglas. This is around the time that

419
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 1: the accused had discharged herself from lean Gatha Hospital and

420
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: drove home. She said to pack her daughter's ballet bag.

421
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 1: You saw for yourselves how she appeared on the CCTV

422
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 1: shortly after eight five am as she was discharging herself

423
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 1: from Leanngatha Hospital. Don and Gale Patterson were both transferred

424
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: to the Austin Hospital on thirty one July. At two

425
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: thirty pm that day, Don Patterson was critically ill and

426
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: in multiple organ failure. He was on life support ventilation

427
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: with a tube down his windpipe. At this time, the

428
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: accused was being transported by ambulance to Modash Medical Center

429
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 1: and was calm and chatty. By August first, twenty twenty three,

430
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: all four of the lunch guests had been conveyed to

431
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: the Austin Hospital ICEE you on life support and in

432
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: an advanced state of multiple organ failure with their organs

433
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: essentially shutting down. Gail Patterson was in an advanced state

434
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: of shock. That was the evidence of Professor Warrillo. This

435
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: is the day the accused was discharged home from the

436
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: Modash Medical Center with no clinical or biochemical evidence of

437
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 1: Amanita mushroom poisoning or any other toxic substance, and no

438
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: liver damage.

439
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 4: Here's more of what the prosecutor went on to say.

440
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: It is inexplicable about why four of five people who

441
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: ostensibly ate the same meal fell fatally ill and only

442
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: one person, the person who prepared the meal, did not.

443
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 2: We'll be back after this with more of the prosecution

444
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: closing arguments. The fourth deception topic allegation Penny that the

445
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 2: jury were taken through was the sustained cover up, a

446
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 2: sustained cover up to conceal what the prosecution alleged really

447
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: was the truth at that time, and this included lying

448
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 2: about feeding her children leftovers, lying about the source of

449
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: the mushrooms, disposing of the food dehydrator, and then allegedly

450
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 2: deliberately concealing her usual mobile phone from police. These were

451
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: the elements that the prosecutions say make up this last deception,

452
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 2: this sustained cover up. Yes, so sort of dot points

453
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 2: or subheadings within subheadings that and Nannette Rodgers she really

454
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 2: signposted these for the jury, and then she went through

455
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: them in detail, and we'll try and do that for

456
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: you now as well. So beginning with feeding her the

457
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 2: leftovers to the children. Now, the prosecution alleged Aaron Patterson

458
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 2: never fed leftovers from the lunch to the children, that

459
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 2: what she fed to the children was something else entirely

460
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: that night, despite the fact that they've given evidence that

461
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 2: it was the leftovers from the lunch. And what the

462
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: Crown prosecutor pointed to as part of this was some

463
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: of the different things that Aaron Patterson had said or

464
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 2: had said to her by different witnesses at different times,

465
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: and what they say was her reluctance to have her

466
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 2: children initially medically assessed.

467
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was one of the first lies that the

468
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 3: prosecution say Aaron Patterson told as part of this whole case,

469
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 3: and that was that her children had been fed some

470
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: of the leftovers. Now, the prosecution agree that the children

471
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 3: did eat steak and that they would have eaten mashed

472
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: potato and beans, which is the evidence that we've heard

473
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 3: during this trial. But they maintained it certainly wasn't the

474
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 3: steak that had been cooked in the mushroom paste and

475
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 3: with the pastry over it the day before, and there

476
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 3: was a number of different reasons. She said that was

477
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: the case and why they should be able to satisfy

478
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 3: the jury beyond reasonable doubt. That this particular part was satisfied,

479
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 3: and that was because when remnants of the lunch ended

480
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 3: up with scientists, she was explaining that even they were

481
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 3: struggling to separate the mushroom paste from the meat in

482
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 3: their testing. The prosecution's cases, it would make absolutely no

483
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 3: sense for a mother to feed her child something that

484
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 3: she could have believed could have made the lunch guest sick.

485
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 3: And when she fed her children this meal on the

486
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 3: Sunday night, Penny, we know at that point Aaron Patterson

487
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 3: already knew that a number of the lunch.

488
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 4: Guests had got sick.

489
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 3: And it's the prosecution case that there is no way

490
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 3: that a mother would feed their beloved children anything that

491
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 3: could potentially make them sick.

492
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: Let's hear a little bit of that scientific evidence, as

493
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 2: Annette Rodgers sc put it to the jury.

494
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 4: This is voiced by an actor.

495
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: The accused attempted to explain why the children would not

496
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: be sick despite eating the leftovers by repeatedly stating that

497
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: she'd scraped the mushrooms off their serves because they didn't

498
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: like mushrooms. However, the scientific evidence in this case strongly

499
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: suggests that simply scraping the mushroom paste away would not

500
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: have been enough to prevent the children from ingesting amatoxins

501
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: had they also eaten the leftover beef Wellington. You might

502
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: remember mister Mandy Cross examining doctor Jeris de Mulus about

503
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: the leftover meat sample and how tiny pieces of mushroom

504
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: or mushroom paste were still stuck to it inside the

505
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: small glass vials. Mister Mandy may argue that the toxins

506
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: did not really penetrate the meat. The meat sample was

507
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 1: simply unable to be separated from the poisonous mushroom paste,

508
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: and that is why the specimen tested positive for beta amaneton.

509
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 1: Maybe that is so, Maybe the toxin penetrated the meat,

510
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: or maybe the mushroom paste just could not be separated

511
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,239
Speaker 1: so that the sample tested positive for beta amaneitan. But

512
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter. The result is the same. The

513
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: meat from that dish carried beta amaneitan in it. Even

514
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: when a forensic toxicologist tried to extract the meat portion

515
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: for analysis, it could not be entirely separated from the

516
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: mushroom paste. It is impossible, we suggest to you, that

517
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: the accused could have served up a piece of leftover

518
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: steak with all of the poisonous mushrooms or mushroom paste removed.

519
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: Not even a forensic toxicologist managed to do that in

520
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: an laboratory.

521
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: So as you touched on before, then erin as well

522
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 2: as we've just heard in that evidence that prosecutions say

523
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: that physically Aaron Patterson could never have removed the toxins

524
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: from the meat if she was to feed it to

525
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 2: those children. There was a lot of what they were

526
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: putting to the jury, these words of the beloved children,

527
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 2: the doting mother, that they've heard a lot of evidence

528
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: that Aaron Patterson really was those things and that she

529
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: really did protect her children. And that's why they say

530
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: that they really wouldn't have been put in a situation

531
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: where they ate this meal, nor where they could have

532
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: possibly been at the particular lunch. But what they also

533
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: say the prosecution as part of this is that while

534
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: the leftover showed there was the toxin, they say that

535
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: this was from the sixth beatf Wellington, this beef Wellington

536
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: that ended up in the outside bin at Aaron Patterson's home,

537
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 2: and the Crown Prosecutor has put to the jury in

538
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: the closings that this sixth beef Wellington was on their case,

539
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: intended for Simon Patterson. That while he had texted to

540
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: say he wouldn't be attending to the meal, the last

541
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: words that he and Aaron Patterson had exchanged on text

542
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: before the lunch itself was her saying I hope to

543
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: see you there. And that the prosecution say these shows

544
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: that she had this meal prepared ready to go for

545
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: Simon Patterson, but that she'd got rid of that, put

546
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: it in the bin, and that's the leftovers that were

547
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: eventually tested. It's not the leftovers that the children were

548
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: actually eating.

549
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the prosecution also said that it would, in

550
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: their mind more readily help people believe that this whole

551
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: ordeal was just a big shocking accident. If Aaron Patterson

552
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: had in fact fed this beef Wellington leftover to her children,

553
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 3: a lie helped cover her tracks. Is a quote I

554
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: remember from today. I looked at the jury as they

555
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 3: were being taken through this particular deception chapter and it

556
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 3: was quite lengthy and it was quite complicated, but they

557
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: seem to be following every single word. There wasn't a

558
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: lot of eyes darting around the room other than to

559
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: look at Aaron Patterson herself in the dock. It was

560
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 3: a jury who were all really fixed on Whatnette Rogers

561
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 3: was saying to.

562
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: Them, and Aaron Patterson, as we've mentioned, is back in

563
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: the dock. She's no longer in the witness box where

564
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: she was for quite a few days giving her evidence,

565
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 2: but she was sitting behind us erin and looking back

566
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: at her a couple of times. She was very much

567
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: watching Nenette Rogers sc as you mentioned, She's sort of

568
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 2: moved her positioning slightly so that she's very much presenting

569
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: to the jury and her back is entirely to the public,

570
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: to the media.

571
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 4: And to Aaron Patterson. And Aaron Patterson.

572
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: She was certainly watching with a lot of interest and

573
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: very much fixed on what the prosecutor was saying, with

574
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,719
Speaker 2: her glasses sort of right down her nose and keeping

575
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: her direction of her gaze fixed right in that area

576
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: of the prout and the jury box.

577
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 3: She was also taking a lot of notes today, Penny.

578
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 3: I saw a blue pen in her right hand as

579
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: she was looking down her nose through her glasses. She

580
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 3: was frantically taking notes at some stage, other times pausing

581
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: to reflect on what the evidence was or reflecting on

582
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 3: what the prosecution had to say. And once again we

583
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 3: had a number of family members in court. There was

584
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: about ten members I counted from the Wilkinson and Patterson families.

585
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: Ian Wilkinson again was there seated in the back row,

586
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: seated today between one of his daughters and his son

587
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 3: in law. This was at a time, Penny where the

588
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 3: jury were really being reminded of what happened in those

589
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 3: final days as well, including to Ian Wilkinson himself, and

590
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: how their illnesses really got worse and worse over a

591
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: number of days. While Aaron Patterson was experiencing one thing,

592
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: these four lunch guests were going into organ failure and

593
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 3: there wasn't a lot of reaction from those in the

594
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 3: court room. I think every was really focused on what

595
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: Neette Rodgers had to say.

596
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as part of what Nanette Rodgers was talking

597
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: about with this organ failure and the progressive decline of

598
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: the lunch guests, she spoke to the jury about that.

599
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: At the same time Aaron Patterson was being asked about

600
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: where these mushrooms had come from, and the prosecution allege

601
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: at this point she came up with, they say, another

602
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,719
Speaker 2: elaborate lie regarding the source of the mushrooms and started

603
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: to tell people they'd come from an Asian grocer. But

604
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: the prosecution put to the jury that this story about

605
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 2: the Asian grosser and the details became broader over time

606
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: and more complex.

607
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, she said that on their case, Aaron Patterson sat

608
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 3: on her hands as her loved ones were growing more

609
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: and more unwell, and she really sent the Department of

610
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 3: Health and also the City of Monash on a wild

611
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: goose chase to find what they say was a fictional

612
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 3: Asian grocer store. With something we've heard a lot about

613
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 3: in this trial and was again mentioned today at length,

614
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: was whether or Aaron Patterson somebody who used to work

615
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 3: and used to live in this particular part of Melbourne

616
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 3: many many many years earlier, would have known the areas

617
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 3: and would have known the suburbs. And as you said,

618
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 3: this lie, the prosecution say, grew bigger and bigger as

619
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 3: time went on, and more suburbs they say, were added in.

620
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 3: More broad descriptions of things then followed, and they say

621
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: this was all not as somebody who was panicking, but

622
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 3: somebody who was caught in their own lives. Yeah.

623
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: And the one of the words that Nnette Rodgers used

624
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 2: that really stuck out for me was she called it

625
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: a frolic. She said that they had been sent on

626
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: a frolic the Health Department. And then she also went

627
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: through how the Monash Health investigators were also involved in

628
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: this foot on the ground search going through all of

629
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: these different local businesses looking for any source of mushrooms.

630
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 2: The three hundred and forty photos that were taken by

631
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: that environmental officer and sent to the Department of Health

632
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: because there was this major concern that as well as

633
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 2: this one family was really unwell in hospital, that there

634
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: could be a big part public health emergency. At the

635
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 2: same time, Nannette Rodgers, as part of the closings and

636
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: this part of her address, she took the jury through

637
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: eleven times. The prosecution allege between when Aaron Patterson first

638
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 2: spoke with doctor Chris Webster on the thirty first of July,

639
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 2: that Monday that she first presented at Leanngatha Hospital, through

640
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: to a couple of days after the lunch on the

641
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: second of August, when she was visited by a Child

642
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 2: Protection worker and she had a speakerphone conversation with a

643
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: public health official.

644
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 4: The prosecution says.

645
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 2: There's eleven times there and they signposted them there to

646
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 2: the jury of the things Aaron Patterson said and they

647
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 2: say didn't say regarding where these particular mushrooms came from,

648
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: beginning with that first doctor saying that the mushrooms, they

649
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: say on the evidence of him, and with what the

650
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: prosecution alleged that she just replied Woolli's and that despite

651
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 2: the defense saying that she had said, he had asked

652
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 2: where the ingredients came from, the prosecution said that the

653
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 2: jury should consider that he asked where the mushrooms had

654
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: come from, and that that doctor, doctor Chris Webster, was

655
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: very much focused on mushrooms at the time, not on

656
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: the ingredients.

657
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 4: As a whole.

658
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: All the way through to these different suburbs and the

659
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: different descriptions that they say Aaron Patterson gave these particular

660
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: public health officials and investigators. But what they also touched

661
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 2: on was the prosecution say that it was Aaron Patterson

662
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 2: not always responding or not always being forthcoming with information

663
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: that the jury should also look at here that towards

664
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 2: the end of Sally Ann Atkinson needing to get information

665
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: from her. In those later days, Aaron Patterson wasn't always

666
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 2: returning her calls or her voicemail messages.

667
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 3: At other times text messages were responded to, but they

668
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 3: didn't answer the questions of Sally Ane Atkinson from the

669
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 3: Department of Health was asking, now we do know this

670
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 3: time Aaron Patterson gave evidence and the jury were reminded

671
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 3: of this today that in one of the messages she

672
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 3: did right back, well, I'm a bit busy, I'm dealing

673
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 3: with my children. I've got a bit of my plate

674
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 3: at the moment, essentially, but that it was some of

675
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 3: those other phone calls that followed that she was so

676
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 3: difficult to get hold of. And this is something as well.

677
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 3: The jury reminded that was the complete opposite to what

678
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson said in her police interview. She told police

679
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 3: that she was very, very helpful with the Department of Health,

680
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: where Asnette Rodgers said that really wasn't the case.

681
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 2: Here's a little bit of what Nenette Rogers told the jury.

682
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 2: It's voiced by an actor.

683
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: Even if you could accept it is something you might

684
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: not remember. You would think that if you were in

685
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 1: a situation like this, for the sake of your very

686
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: ill family members, and for anyone else who might be exposed,

687
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: you would do everything you could to try and remember

688
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: the store. But the accused sat on her hands while Don,

689
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: gail Ian and Heather were all in comas. She was

690
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: slow to respond to the Department of Health, even totally

691
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: non responsive at times, and as time passed, her description

692
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: of the Chinese food store shifted and grew broader. You

693
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: noticed that when the accused was giving the evidence that

694
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 1: she appeared to have a remarkable memory. She could recall dates, evidence,

695
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: and details easily, as she was being asked questions over

696
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: many days. Even now in June twenty twenty five, she

697
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: could recall that April twenty eighth, twenty twenty three was

698
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: a Friday and not a Monday, as I had suggested

699
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: to her in cross examination. Yet in August twenty twenty three,

700
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: she could not recall the shop or even the suburb

701
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: where she purchased the mushrooms from an Asian grosser in

702
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: the same April of twenty twenty three. It's simply beggar's belief.

703
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: How were the mushrooms packaged? Not only did the locations

704
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: of the supposed Asian grosser spread across more and more suburbs.

705
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: The story about the mushrooms from the Asian Grosser also

706
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: became more complex when professionals asked the accused about the packaging,

707
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: She said she didn't have it, then came up with

708
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 1: an elaborate ex explanation for why that would be the case,

709
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: given that she had only prepared the meal a few

710
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: days earlier.

711
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 2: Now, another point that Nanette Rodgers sc has taken the

712
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 2: jury too in part of her closings were the claims

713
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: around that Aaron Patterson says she read hydrated the Asian

714
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 2: grosser mushrooms and added them into this particular meal. Now,

715
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: she went back to some of Aaron Patterson's evidence that

716
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: she said while she was on the stand that she'd

717
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 2: noticed how crisp things were when they came out of

718
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 2: her dehydrator, and she felt these particular Asian mushrooms, which

719
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: previously the jury had heard evidence from other witnesses that

720
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: she'd told them, smelt a bit funny or a little

721
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: bit strange, and that's why she hadn't included them in

722
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 2: other foods at the time. That she felt that those

723
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: mushrooms were a bit rubbery in the tupper where she'd

724
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: put them in, so at some point she couldn't remember

725
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 2: exactly when, but she'd taken them out, she'd popped them

726
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: into the dehydrator and that was to crisp them up.

727
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: And what Nanette Rogers told the jury was that in

728
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: telling the taught this in her evidence that she was

729
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 2: telling a ridiculous lie. That was Nnette Roger's words, that

730
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 2: she was trying to show that there could still be

731
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 2: some contamination with the Asian grosser mushrooms. But that really

732
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: all along, Aaron Patterson knew. The prosecution alleges that she

733
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 2: had dehydrated deathcat mushrooms in her own sun Beam dehydrator,

734
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 2: and they suggest that she bought that dehydrator for the

735
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: exact purpose of dehydrating those mushrooms.

736
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, Rogers said that it wouldn't make sense to purchase

737
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: dried mushrooms to then rehydrate them, to put them in

738
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 3: this meal, to then chop them up to then redry

739
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 3: them again. And that was at a point where there

740
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 3: was a few of us are a little bit confused

741
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 3: trying to make sense of this. But the way she

742
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 3: broke it down was, yes, Aaron Patterson's evidence was, when

743
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 3: I took these mushrooms out of the pantry, I rehydrated

744
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 3: them with a little bit of water, I chopped them up,

745
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 3: and then I added them to the meal. But why

746
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 3: and then and how has remnants of death cat mushrooms

747
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 3: then made their way onto the dehydrator. So and Nette

748
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 3: Rogers was saying essentially that that is another lie, it

749
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 3: doesn't make sense, and that Aaron Patterson did in fact

750
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 3: source dry and add mushrooms deathcat mushrooms to the meal.

751
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: It's a little bit more from what Nannette Rogers told

752
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 2: the jury regarding the dumping of the dehydrator.

753
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: The defense may argue that this was part of a

754
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: wild panic, that the accused did this because she was

755
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: worried she would be falsely accused of deliberately poisoning her

756
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 1: lunch guests. You should completely reject that position. Her story

757
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: about Simon accusing her in the hospital of using the

758
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: dehydrator and this sending her into a panic is nonsense.

759
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: Simon Patterson categorically denied to you ever saying such a

760
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: thing to the accused. You will use your common sense

761
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: when you're considering the evidence in this case, including this

762
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: piece of evidence. If there was nothing incriminating about the

763
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: deh hydrator, why hide it? And there is only one

764
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: reasonable explanation. She knew it would incriminate her. She knew

765
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: that she had dehydrated death cap mushrooms in that appliance

766
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 1: and that she had deliberately done so, and she knew

767
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: that keeping it was going to be far too risky.

768
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, this dumping of the dehydrator, Rogers said, was one

769
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 3: of the first things that Aaron Patterson did as soon

770
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 3: as she was released from that Monash hospital. And she

771
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 3: then took the jury through a number of other things

772
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 3: that they say she did that prove she was covering

773
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 3: her tracks after she attempted to kill some of her

774
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 3: lunch guests. And this next thing that they say she

775
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 3: did was the dumping of what Nanette called the dummy phone.

776
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 3: We've heard during some of this evidence that there was

777
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: fhone A in phone B, but she really used different

778
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: terminology during her closings and explained that Aaron Patterson had

779
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 3: a usual phone and she had a dummy phone. And

780
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 3: their case is that Aaron Patterson handed police the dummy phone,

781
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 3: a phone that she knew that had been wiped and

782
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 3: then was later wiped again while it was in the

783
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 3: locker of the police informat and that she didn't actually

784
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 3: hand over her usual phone. Now, Neett Rodgers reminded the

785
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: jury that the defense case was this other phone, this

786
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 3: usual phone was just left on the window sill in

787
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 3: there in Patterson's house and police had missed it. And

788
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 3: Rogers really encouraged the jury to reject that suggestion and

789
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 3: said that the police had been there for four hours.

790
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 3: They're searching for all of the devices that they could find,

791
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 3: and it wouldn't make any sense for them to have

792
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 3: missed or looked over a phone that was now sitting

793
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 3: on a window sill in air in Patterson's house.

794
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for the listeners that have been listening along

795
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: we have referred to in previous episodes, like the prosecution

796
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: and the defense have that what the prosecution now alleged

797
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: is a dummy phone, that is Phone B and the

798
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 2: phone A, that phone that police never recovered is what

799
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 2: Nenette Rodgers is referring to there as well.

800
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 4: Toward the end of.

801
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 2: Her final submission her closing arguments, Nanette Rodgers spoke a

802
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: lot about the relationships within the family and why she

803
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 2: says there may have been while there doesn't need to

804
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 2: be a motive in this particular case, but there may

805
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 2: have been some animosity in this particular family. And she

806
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: touched on what she says is evidence that these particular

807
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 2: relationships had changed over time and changed around the time

808
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 2: of the lunch.

809
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: She reminded the jury when she was speaking about this

810
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 3: that the prosecution doesn't need to prove a motive to

811
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 3: prove murder. It's not one of the full elements of

812
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 3: murder that a jury needs to be satisfied beyond reasonable

813
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: doubt that they have reached to find somebody guilty of murder.

814
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 3: But the way it was explained was that sometimes the

815
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 3: reasons are obvious as to why somebody might kill somebody,

816
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 3: in other times they're not. And so that was part

817
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 3: of the explanation about what was going on then with

818
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 3: the family at the time. And she noted that on

819
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 3: the surface, it may have seemed like the accused was

820
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 3: in this really loving family, this loving relationship, yes, but

821
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 3: perhaps the truth was that what was really going on

822
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 3: with Don and Gail Patterson and Aaron Patterson at that

823
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 3: time was that things weren't always really harmonious.

824
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 2: Hiss a little bit of what the jury was told

825
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: about the situation within the family at the time of

826
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: the lunch.

827
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: The accused professed her love for Don and Gail in

828
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: her police interview. Even Simon told you that they got

829
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: on well, that is, the accused and his parents, and

830
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: that the accused seemed to love his parents. On the surface,

831
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 1: perhaps it seemed that way even to the family members themselves,

832
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: but you have heard evidence which shows that the relationship

833
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: between the accused and Don and Gail was not always

834
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: a harmonious one, particularly in the nine months or so

835
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: leading up to the lunch. Don and Gail were dragged

836
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: unwillingly into the conflict between the accused and Simon over

837
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: child support.

838
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 3: And this is what Annette Rogers told the jury about motive.

839
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: Motive is not an element of the crime of murder

840
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: or the crime of attempted murder, and it is only

841
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: the elements of the offense that you must find proven

842
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: beyond reasonable doubt that makes sense. People do different things

843
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 1: for different reasons. Sometimes the reason is obvious enough to others.

844
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: At other times, the internal motivations are only known by

845
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: the person themselves. You don't have to know why a

846
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: person does something in order to know they did it.

847
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 2: Now, this is the part that we have alluded to

848
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: earlier in the episode that there was a surprise for

849
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 2: the jury, for us sitting in the courtroom as well

850
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 2: and the members of the public when it came to

851
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 2: the number of calculated deceptions that the prosecution alleged Aaron

852
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 2: Patterson took part in.

853
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 4: Initially, Annette Rodgers.

854
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 2: As you heard outlined in what she told the jury

855
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: earlier in this episode, said there were four calculated deceptions.

856
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 4: Then she said there was a fifth calculated deception.

857
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: She says, this deception is Aaron Patterson herself saying that,

858
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 2: in Nnette Roger's words, that Aaron Patterson tried to play

859
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 2: the jury.

860
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, Nenette Rogers was facing the jury at this time,

861
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 3: and the jury, as they really had behaved throughout all

862
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 3: of her closing submissions, they couldn't be seen taking any notes,

863
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 3: they weren't looking at their iPads. Their eyes were really

864
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 3: fixed on Nett Rogers as she was speaking. And this

865
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: was a moment where there was surprise across the faces

866
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 3: of some of the jury members, and one of the

867
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 3: male jurors as well, almost smirt He had a smile

868
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 3: on his face. When they were told that there would

869
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 3: be this fifth element, and then all of a sudden

870
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 3: we heard net Rodgers say, this is the lies that

871
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 3: we say. Aaron Patterson told you the juror as while

872
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 3: she was here in the courtroom. Now, I was sitting

873
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 3: in the courtroom like I have been every day of

874
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 3: this trial, Penny, and I looked around to see Aaron Patterson.

875
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 3: She seated in the dock behind where the media is sitting,

876
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 3: and she had been taking notes throughout both days, and

877
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 3: that was happening again today. Glasses on the end of

878
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 3: her nose, and she was continuing to take notes, and

879
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 3: there wasn't a lot of reaction to what was happening

880
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 3: at that point.

881
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: So what Nanette Rodgers told the jury is that Aaron

882
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: Patterson didn't have to give evidence, that she made the

883
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 2: choice to give evidence off her own bat, and that

884
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 2: therefore she opened herself up to cross examination just like

885
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 2: any other witness. And there were a number of those

886
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: points that you mentioned that Nanette Rogers put to the

887
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 2: jurors saying, we put to you that she lied about this,

888
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: that she lied about this, that she lied about this,

889
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 2: And she started off with the cancer diagnosis, quoting from

890
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: what she'd told police what she'd told different witnesses, and

891
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: then what she'd said on the stand, and she said

892
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 2: every time we asked her questions about that that her

893
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: story seemed to be changing.

894
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 3: She mentioned that Aaron Patterson seemed to have a really

895
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 3: good memory for some things, particularly dates and the day

896
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 3: of the week. She explained that in other parts Aaron

897
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,760
Speaker 3: Patterson was unable to explain certain elements, but also didn't

898
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 3: answer or give full some answers to other questions. And

899
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 3: that was the reason or part of the reason why

900
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 3: Anette Rogers said the jury should not put a lot

901
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 3: of faith into what Aaron Patterson was saying, and to

902
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 3: really put that aside and focus on what evidence it

903
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 3: is that the prosecution brought to the table.

904
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 2: Now, the prosecution has anticipated in some of what they've

905
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 2: told the jury, they expect the defense will say in

906
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 2: their closings. You'll hear a little bit in these words

907
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 2: of Nannette Rogers that were about to play you. This

908
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 2: begins with her talking about the fact that the defense

909
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 2: may try to suggest that a lot of these things

910
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 2: happened because of an innocent panic.

911
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 4: This is voiced by an actor.

912
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: It might be suggested to you that some of the

913
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: accused behavior after the lunch was the result of panic,

914
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: innocent panic about the prospect of being blamed, and that

915
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 1: this is why she disposed of the dehydrator and why

916
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: she told some of the lies I have already referred to.

917
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: We suggest you can reject those suggestions why, because panic

918
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: does not explain the extent and prolonged efforts that the

919
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 1: accused went to in order to cover up what she'd done.

920
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: It does not explain why the accused chose to persist

921
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: with lies even when the lives of the lunch guests

922
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: were at stake. And you might also remember that the

923
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: accused volunteered some of those lies to someone who she

924
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: had absolutely no reason to lie to.

925
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 2: From then innet, Rogers took the jury through a few

926
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 2: more bits of evidence of different witnesses. What she says

927
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 2: that Aaron Patterson told Jenny Hay, one of her online friends,

928
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 2: regarding elements that had happened after the lunch with the

929
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 2: leftovers and where she says she got the mushrooms. And

930
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 2: after these two days of closings that the jury has

931
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 2: heard from Nannette Rogers, it was time for her to

932
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: sit back down and say she had finished these closing submissions.

933
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 3: She actually thanked the jury. She said thank you for

934
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 3: your time and sat back down. And we know what

935
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 3: happened next, Penny. Is that Colin Mandy. It was his

936
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 3: turn at the lectern. He did the same. He came

937
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 3: in and moved it so it was facing the jury

938
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 3: and we'll bring you some more about what he has

939
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:09,879
Speaker 3: to say in our next episode.

940
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to this episode of Say Grace.

941
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: Please press the follow button in your app to get

942
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 2: our next episodes as soon as we publish.

943
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 3: For more reporting on the case, check out the Age

944
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 3: of nine News in your browser or app store.

945
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 2: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land

946
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 2: that this podcast was recorded on and wherever you're listening

947
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 2: to it now.

948
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 4: Say Grace is created and hosted by me Penelope Leash

949
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 4: and me Aaron Pearson. This podcast is produced by Genevieve Rule.