S1: All right, let's go. Let's do it.
S2: Hey there. I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop,
S2: a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald in The Age,
S2: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S2: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and
S2: Mel Kambouris. The three of us, unlike the industry we
S2: cover every week on this show, are not on strike.
S2: In fact, quite the contrary. We're here with a very
S2: special episode of The Drop to unpack the shutdown of Hollywood.
S2: How are we feeling about this, guys? This historic moment
S2: we're all living through?
S3: Well, before we get into that historic moment, maybe we
S3: could talk about unpack the historic moment you're going through
S3: at the moment to which is your Barbie era.
S2: I was I was shocked How many people because we
S2: mentioned this, I think a couple of episodes ago that
S2: I was thinking about going blonde for the Barbie premiere,
S2: the amount of people I ran into just on the
S2: street who are like, You're not blonde yet. I heard
S2: you were going to go blonde. Like, Jeez, that was
S2: just a throwaway line on a podcast. Let a guy live. No,
S2: but I did it. I bleached my hair on Friday.
S4: I wish your barber had gone on strike.
S2: You told me it looked great.
S4: No, it looks good. I'm just having a very kind message.
S2: Yeah, I've gone the full kind of platinum blonde. I
S2: think I look. I look like, you know, almost exactly
S2: like Ryan Gosling in the Barbie film.
S3: Now, you haven't done this before. Was it Barbie that
S3: inspired you to do it again?
S2: Yes, I done it before. How long? We're going to
S2: talk about my hair. But I have I have.
S4: Put aside 20.
S2: Minutes. I did spend I remember at least a year
S2: blonde previously. And then I don't know how much experience
S2: you guys have with with dyeing or bleaching your hair,
S2: but your hair can get quite, you know, frizzy and
S2: sort of dead after a while if you don't take
S2: care of it. So I thought, I'm just going to
S2: let it grow out and just come back to its natural,
S2: you know, healthy state. But then I thought, Oh, the
S2: Bobby premiere is a great opportunity to do it again.
S2: I always I always liked it. I thought it was
S2: fun and let's go. So I have.
S4: No you do actually suited. I have been like threatening
S4: this for a long time because I like the idea
S4: of being someone that can like peroxide. Their hair would
S4: look terrible. I did like I did blonde tips. We've
S4: talked about this before. When I was in year eight.
S4: Same time I was wearing a shell necklace. Very confusing
S4: time for me. But yes, sadly, I cannot pull off
S4: the peroxide blonde.
S3: You should go for it. My. My thing about hair
S3: is you can always change it. It will always grow back.
S3: I think you should lean into your blonde era. And
S3: then it would be quite fun having both of you
S3: blonde as well.
S4: Blondes do have more fun, as they say.
S2: In my humble experience. That is. That is true. Even
S2: over the last couple of days since I've been blonde,
S2: that feels like the case. But let's put a pin
S2: in the Bobby chat. Not because I don't want to
S2: talk about my hair for for much longer, but because
S2: we will be back later this week, on Thursday. We
S2: Is this a big day for us? Not only are
S2: we doing the special strike pod, but tonight the three
S2: of us are going to see Bobby at the Australian premiere.
S2: Then on Tuesday night, we're going to see Oppenheimer at
S2: the Australian premiere. It's big, big few days, so we're
S2: going to be podcasting about those two big form releases
S2: that'll be out on Thursday. But today we're here to
S2: break down the Hollywood strike, and there's a lot to
S2: delve into in terms of why it's happening, what's happening now,
S2: what it means for the future of TV and film production,
S2: how long it could go on for and what exactly
S2: the strike is over. But before we kind of unpack
S2: each of those things one by one, I want to
S2: ask you, Thomas and Mel, when when you guys you
S2: cover this industry like I do every single day here
S2: at the Herald and The Age, when did you realize
S2: this was going to be an actual big deal that
S2: changed the work that we do day to day?
S4: I can give you like a pretty specific answer to
S4: the minute. At about 3:37 a.m. on Friday morning. Not
S4: that I was awake at this time, but yeah, I
S4: guess the 3:37 a.m. on Friday, I received an email
S4: from the publicist of Jeremy Allen White from the Bet
S4: who we had. I did a conversation with him last
S4: year for the season one and I was trying to
S4: chat to him for season two and we were kind
S4: of in the midst of setting that up. And then
S4: she emailed me and said, You know, unfortunately Jeremy can
S4: no longer do this because the strike means that promotional
S4: activities fall under all the things they can't do.
S3: And we know how excited you were about you are
S3: about the bear. So this must have been quite alarming
S3: for you. Exactly.
S4: I wanted to kind of get into him stealing my look. No,
S4: but it was pretty crazy to wake up, see this
S4: email and then be like, okay.
S2: This this is actually happening. This this is actually happening.
S4: And I know that we've been like probably knowing it's coming.
S4: And the writers have been on strike for months, but
S4: I mean, the actors I think has a much more
S4: tangible impact and obviously like they're much more public facing.
S4: But yeah, it was very strange to like literally wake
S4: up to the news but then also wake up to
S4: this very firsthand experience of like, okay, this interview I
S4: was setting up cannot happen because this person can't work.
S3: Yeah, I think it was when I saw that the
S3: cast of Oppenheimer had left the screening, one of the
S3: biggest films of the year. They had been on the
S3: red carpet. And then Christopher Nolan, the director, kind of
S3: stood up in. And said, Oh, you might have noticed
S3: the actors aren't here because they've gone home to go.
S3: And right there, after they've got home to go and
S3: write their placards. I think that was a pretty big
S3: moment when realized, Oh wow, this is happening. The symbolism
S3: of that. And then shortly after saying with you, Thomas
S3: worked with a lot of writers here who have interviews
S3: lined up for the next few months with a lot
S3: of actors for big films. And those interviews started dropping over.
S3: And there something concern about, oh, about stories.
S4: It's going to go in the paper. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
S2: I mean, like we are not the the key antagonists
S2: or the key focus of the strike as journalists, but
S2: it is interesting to think about how quickly this went
S2: from being like a news event that we all clock
S2: to like, Oh, this actually tangibly impacts the work that
S2: we do every day. And Mel, you had a spectrum
S2: and we've got a big interview coming up with with
S2: Killian Murphy, who is the lead in Oppenheimer. That was
S2: done before the strike, but kind of made me realize,
S2: oh wow, like if these things just shifted by a
S2: couple of weeks, you know, we wouldn't have had all
S2: that amazing Barbie hype that we saw because we'll talk
S2: about this in a second. But the strike doesn't just
S2: impact the production of films. It impacts, as you said,
S2: Thomas like promotional opportunities, interviews, all that sort of stuff.
S2: It was kind of why we wanted to do this episode,
S2: I guess, to help people who maybe have been reading
S2: some of the headlines understand exactly what's going on and
S2: how long am I going for and why it will
S2: change the way that we consume culture and journalism about
S2: culture for the foreseeable future. So I thought we could
S2: start by trying to explain exactly how this process works
S2: and how we got here. I'm going to I'm going
S2: to give it a go. But you guys know this
S2: stuff as well as I do, so feel free to
S2: jump in or add any extra bits of detail you
S2: think are relevant. There are essentially three main unions that
S2: operate in Hollywood and represent all the key actors, but
S2: that that was a really bad term because we're not
S2: just talking about actors. There is the Actors Guild, the
S2: Screen Actors Guild, which looks off to actors. There's the
S2: Writers Guild, which looks after writers, and there's the Directors Guild,
S2: the DGA. All three of those bodies individually negotiate with
S2: this other group called the AMP, which is the Alliance
S2: of Motion Picture and Television Producers. That's essentially this umbrella
S2: org that represents the production companies. So everyone from Netflix
S2: to Amazon to Disney, NBC, all of those companies have
S2: one big umbrella body that they negotiate under. And every
S2: few years the AMP renegotiated the collective agreement that sets
S2: things like minimum rates of pay and conditions for the actors,
S2: writers and directors. Most of the time it's a bit
S2: of a negotiation. They sign a deal and everyone's happy
S2: and we go and we get television and film. But
S2: sometimes things break down. I don't know you guys. Probably
S2: none of us were working in the industry in 2007,
S2: but do you have any memories of that strike? That
S2: was the last time a big chunk of Hollywood was
S2: shut down because of a failure of the negotiations?
S3: No, but I, I do remember discussion around that time
S3: about a Breaking Bad season that was cut short. And
S3: it actually, I think, fundamentally changed the plot of that
S3: show because they could only get, I think it was
S3: 7 or 8 episodes out and they couldn't end it
S3: on a cliffhanger because the season wasn't finished. So it
S3: ended on a kind of regular episode That was from 2007.
S3: I think that's what I remember.
S4: Yeah, I remember the Breaking Bad thing too. I just
S4: remember like, I think the thing that always sticks in
S4: your mind is like the funny signs. But yeah, I
S4: remember it being like a big thing, but I don't
S4: like kind of have specific.
S2: Yeah, neither I, I saw some videos because the writers
S2: actually have been on strike since May already. And so
S2: there was a lot of talk about the last time
S2: this happened in 2007. I was probably a bit too
S2: young to clock a lot of it all. But one
S2: of the viral clips that that came around a few
S2: months ago that's really stuck with me was all those
S2: late night talk shows, right? All the writers went on strike,
S2: but the hosts were still contractually obliged to go on
S2: air and talk about stuff. It's really funny clip of
S2: Conan O'Brien, who was literally just like spinning his wedding
S2: ring on his desk for like 20 minutes.
S5: That was in Blazing Saddles. All right, here we go. Susie,
S5: are you ready to time this? We're going for 41 seconds.
S5: If we do it, this will be television history. Susie,
S5: you ready to go? I'm ready. Okay. You excited, Susie? Yes.
S5: Good luck. It's not a genuine bone in her body.
S5: Are we going to try and get a good spin?
S5: If I don't? I'll start all over again. Band, I
S5: hope you're ready. Here we go. And that's a good spin.
S5: That's a good spin. Oh, yeah.
S2: And taking shots at like the studios for not signing
S2: a deal. So I don't have any writers. I can't
S2: make any gags and the audience is like cheering and
S2: clapping him on as his wedding ring spins for like
S2: 2 or 3 minutes at a time. So yeah, as
S2: we said that the Writers Guild actually has been on
S2: strike this year since May, and that had already halted
S2: a bunch of TV and film productions. But then on Friday,
S2: this is the big news. The Actors Guild decided to
S2: walk out, and it's the first time since 1960 that
S2: both the actors and writers have walked off the job.
S2: Quick pop quiz. Who was the president of the Screen
S2: Actors Guild in 1960 when the actors went on strike then?
S4: Oh.
S3: Thomas, over here.
S4: Over here. I believe it was one Ronald Reagan. Wow.
S2: Thomas knows his union history.
S4: Yes. Could I? Yeah. Should we do, like, a Shakespeare
S4: quiz now or. Yeah. Yes. Ronald Reagan from, you know.
S3: Oh, go on.
S2: Well, Reagan From what? From what? Yeah.
S3: Let's dig a little deeper here and see how far this.
S4: Knowledge was going to say. He obviously he was an actor.
S4: He was like.
S2: Well, it's an actor.
S4: Yes. And then he became president crazy. I think.
S2: He was governor of California in between as well, I.
S4: Believe. Really. But any actor that just put into governor
S4: of California, didn't they?
S2: Yeah. Arnie.
S4: And that's it.
S2: That's the two of them. So so first time since 1960,
S2: both the writers and actors are off the job. And
S2: as a result, basically everything has shut down, not just
S2: in Hollywood, but around the world and here in Australia
S2: as well, because there are American actors working on Australian
S2: based productions and because they can no longer work, those
S2: productions have essentially halted for the foreseeable future. Thomas You
S2: did some reporting for us last week looking at which
S2: shows in Australia were impacted. What did you find out?
S4: Yeah, so the biggest one probably that was impacted immediately
S4: was Apples Never Fall. So that's like a $79 million
S4: Amazon Prime series. It's based on the bestselling Liane Moriarty book.
S4: Know every book of hers just becomes a series. They're
S4: all slightly different versions of the same thing to me.
S4: But anyway.
S3: Wow, I didn't know.
S4: We did the that's for my that's for my.
S2: Sorry. I had to go up and drive by shot.
S4: To my Moriarty hate pod. Yeah, but so it's Sam
S4: Neill and Annette Bening and Alison Brie obviously all very
S4: famous actors, obviously all belong to SAG. That was meant
S4: to wrap in September. And yeah, on Thursday we got
S4: word that Annette Bening had kind of done quite a
S4: what we're told was like an impassioned speech, like, you know,
S4: almost a, oh, captain, my captain style speech where she
S4: spoke to the crew about what was happening and why
S4: it was important for her to fly home. And she
S4: flew out back to the States on Friday morning. And
S4: I believe Alison Brie has also since left.
S2: Well, do you know why they're flying back home? They're
S2: not just like sort of taking the opportunity to chill
S2: out here.
S4: Well, I guess I'm I reckon I mean, you can
S4: probably read a lot into that. Maybe they're like, well,
S4: this is not going to end soon. Also, I guess
S4: if you're given the opportunity for a sudden break, maybe
S4: you want to go home and see your family and stuff. True.
S2: Maybe they want to join the picket lines outside.
S4: Yeah, I know that because it's kind of like a
S4: bad look optics wise. If you're like, Oh, I'll just
S4: hang out here because I'm assuming that. Well, go back
S4: to work soon.
S2: True, True. Alison Brie You know, Papped on strike at
S2: the beach and Byron or something, maybe.
S4: Yeah, Her and Dave Franco. Just like smashing bees at
S4: cheeky Monkeys in bar. Yeah. So they they've all since
S4: left and production halted on that. They finished shooting it.
S4: It was tools down at 5 p.m. on Friday which
S4: was the cut off in LA and also similarly Mortal
S4: Kombat two. That was like a big film that was
S4: shooting on the go, both shooting in Queensland and that
S4: was meant to wrap in August and it's since been
S4: tools down on that. Pretty sure it stars Karl Urban
S4: from Star Trek and amongst the other host of other Australians.
S4: And so yeah, they're two of the kind of biggest
S4: current productions. There's one other production we know that is
S4: shooting with kind of an American cast. It's it's hasn't
S4: been confirmed. It's under embargo, but that will also be halted.
S4: So yeah, it's basically anything with SAG members has to
S4: cease production immediately. But we do know stuff like the
S4: Office Australia, which was a big deal. Everyone was kind
S4: of across that the Australian spin off like that's all
S4: Australian cast and crew. So that will be going ahead.
S4: I think they're in pre-production now. So yeah, it was
S4: again like, you know, obviously it's not about our industry
S4: specifically or anything, but it's always easy to relate when
S4: it affects you. And it was very interesting to hear it,
S4: you know, see these images of the actors on the
S4: picket line in America and see Fran Drescher giving her
S4: now famous speech and then also have these productions like
S4: being impacted here straight away. Yeah.
S3: And I guess for listeners who also want to know
S3: what other shows are going to be affected through the
S3: combination of the writers and actors strikes, there's some really
S3: big shows that are going to be delayed. The White Lotus,
S3: I know a favorite for us. Emily in Paris, Stranger Things.
S3: Yellow Jackets, The Mandalorian, Deadpool Gladiator two, Mission Impossible. So
S3: you won't be able to get to talk to Tom
S3: Cruise again. I'll probably.
S4: Say it at Tom's.
S3: House. You need to ask him finally about that missing award.
S3: My favourite, Paddington. Paddington in Peru. Delayed. So some really.
S2: There's the new Paddington movie coming.
S3: Yeah, in Peru. He's going.
S4: To Peru?
S2: Yeah, he's from Peru.
S3: Who is he? Come on. You're not.
S2: Across this. Paddington is a refugee from Peru.
S4: Yeah, I did not know. I mean.
S2: Yeah, and his. And his name is actually, I think
S2: it's like post-WWII or something like that. And he's called
S2: Paddington because when he rocks up as a refugee at
S2: Paddington Station, the dumb English family can't say his name properly.
S2: They're like, Well, we'll just call you Paddington.
S4: Oh, so this is like a classic English story where
S4: they like, we'll take him and we'll give him a
S4: better life and we'll give him.
S3: A Wellington and a marmalade sandwich. Yeah.
S4: And he's probably like, fucking dreaming of. I don't know,
S4: This is.
S2: This is a problem because I don't know if you
S2: guys are following this, but the UK is kind of
S2: embroiled in some pretty intense debate around immigration policy. A
S2: lot of kind of stopped the boats rhetoric. It feels
S2: like a good time for a, you know, a narrative
S2: about Paddington. The refugee of the UK needs this to
S2: sort of reset its political debate.
S3: I agree. And although I would say that every time
S3: is a good time for Paddington, I think you could
S3: learn a lot from Paddington Bear.
S2: The White Lotus one is interesting. I spoke to Mike
S2: White about the writers strike a few weeks ago when
S2: he was here in Sydney and he was pretty sanguine
S2: about it because he he does know writing writers room
S2: for that show. It's just kind of him. And he
S2: was like, Well, obviously I'm going to obey the strike.
S2: But he's like, Man, I'm really tired. Like I could
S2: do with a couple of months just chilling in Thailand
S2: doing my development work. But yeah, that's a big list
S2: of shows and films. And I think what is interesting
S2: about all of these shutdowns is we've still got TV now, right?
S2: Like this isn't sort of stopping stuff that has been
S2: produced and signed off and is about to be distributed.
S2: But in 3 to 4 months, like we could be
S2: seeing very, very little stuff that isn't reality or documentary
S2: because those are two production sort of categories that are
S2: not impacted right. From from these kinds of strikes. And
S2: it will.
S3: Be interesting to see, too, because to be clear, these
S3: are kind of American unions and the UK has its
S3: own union equity and we obviously have our own unions
S3: here in Australia. But because of the way the global
S3: nature of television and film it, it will be interesting
S3: to see how it plays out. As in so far
S3: I've read that House of Dragons is still being shot
S3: because the contract that's under is the UK Union.
S2: Yeah, mainly a mainly British kind of crew. But there's
S2: some speculation that that's like a little bit dodgy, like
S2: the idea that there's not a single American SAG actor
S2: or writer on that show doesn't totally make sense to me.
S3: Yeah, that's what I mean. And so it'll be interesting
S3: to see how those kind of cross country shows, which
S3: are heaps of them play out. Like we have seen
S3: it already here in Australia with some of them. But
S3: surely there'll be a stack more that are filming elsewhere
S3: that are going to be pulled as well.
S2: Thomas You mentioned Fran Drescher inspiring speech. I thought this
S2: might be an opportunity to talk about her for a second.
S2: So we mentioned Ronald Reagan was the president of the
S2: Screen Actors Guild in 1960. The current president of the
S2: Screen Actors Guild is Fran Drescher, who most people know
S2: from the 90s sitcom The Nanny. And her speech was
S2: pretty extraordinary. I think all three of us were. I
S2: quite moved by it. Let's let's listen to a little
S2: bit of it.
S6: What we are saying, you cannot change the business model
S6: as much as it has changed and not expect the
S6: contract to change, too. We're not going to keep doing
S6: incremental changes on a contract that no longer honors what
S6: is happening right now with this business model that was
S6: foisted upon us. What are we doing moving around furniture
S6: on the Titanic? It's crazy. So the jig is up amp.
S6: We stand tall. You have to wake up and smell
S6: the coffee.
S2: We are. Yeah. Pretty strong stuff. Did you like the
S2: Titanic reference?
S4: I love that. I mean, I love a topical Titanic reference.
S4: And also, I mean, given Ronald Reagan's trajectory, are we
S4: looking at like a Fran 2040 run for the White House?
S3: I think I've had you, but you have established.
S4: I've noticed a pattern.
S2: Funny you should bring that up. Right. Because a lot
S2: of people who maybe don't follow the ins and outs
S2: of Screen Actors Guild union bureaucracies, unlike me, were a
S2: bit surprised to see the nanny like sort of lead
S2: the charge on this. But Fran Drescher in a number
S2: of like different television and film stories has been like
S2: a very strong advocate for like, unionism. There's an episode
S2: of the Nanny called The Strike where Fran refuses to
S2: cross a picket line that Mr. Sheffield is like dragging
S2: her through. And it's not like an actor strike. It's
S2: busboys like waiters in this hotel that are going on strike.
S7: Fine. You're embarrassing me. Now come along. I can't.
S8: My hands. A blouse would roll over in her grave,
S8: which was paid for by her union.
S7: How would you please come in before this turns into
S7: a spectacle? Would you go?
UU: Why would you please. And she's like.
S2: My mom told me to never, ever cross a picket line.
S2: And then Mr. Sheffield tries to, like, drag her across
S2: the picket line. She gets photographed. It's like in The
S2: New York Times, it becomes this big scandal, and Mr.
S2: Sheffield becomes, like, completely pilloried, cancelled, if you will, for
S2: dragging his nanny across the picket line. And then, I
S2: don't know, Have either of you guys seen 1997 Beautician
S2: and the Beast?
S3: I'm not.
S4: No, no.
S3: I had no idea you were such a friend, Drescher
S3: I'm a.
S2: I'm a friend. Drescher Ahead. Well, this is why she's
S2: got great, great views on these things. So beautician and
S2: the beast, she plays a beautician, somehow gets confused for
S2: being like, a teacher and gets sort of hired by
S2: this dictator in this fake Eastern European country to, I think,
S2: educate his kids seriously.
S4: Anything goes. In the 90s plot was just like.
S2: She ends up visiting like a steel mine and she
S2: asks the workers like when they get to have their
S2: break and they're like, what break? And she's like, What?
S2: Talk to your union. And they're like, What's a union?
S2: And then she ends up unionizing all of these steelworkers.
S2: So very franchise has been smuggling all this wacky, pro-union stuff,
S2: you know, for a long, long time. And you mentioned
S2: whether she might be running for president. I had a
S2: little back in the days of when I was very
S2: involved in Twitter, had a bit of an interaction with
S2: Fran on Twitter where she was posting some pretty bolshie stuff.
S2: I think during the the Bernie Hillary primary campaign, 2015, 2016.
S2: And I said, Fran, you know, like, are we going
S2: to see you maybe run for president one day? And
S2: she said she said, watch this space. So there you go.
S4: Really? Yeah. 2014 Osmond with the scoop.
S3: You already had the scoop then.
S2: I was very happy with that and I'm glad to
S2: be able to talk about it seven years later. Now,
S2: with you guys, I'm.
S3: Really glad to see the nanny back in the limelight.
S3: I thought her speech was very rousing. I really liked
S3: when she evoked the French Revolution. You know, the people
S3: break down the gates of a sigh and then it's over.
S3: I thought that was great. Also, I really enjoyed I
S3: don't know if you saw, but before she gave this speech,
S3: she'd been criticized because she had been off in Italy
S3: at a Dolce and Gabbana show, and she was photographed
S3: with Kim Kardashian and people were criticizing her for being
S3: offered a fashion show when she should have been, you know,
S3: when it was thought she should have been negotiating the deal.
S3: And she came back with some great lines about that, too,
S3: about how she didn't want to be running around on
S3: the cobblestones in high heels, how it was all work,
S3: how it wasn't a selfie. Yeah. So, Fran, friends having
S3: a moment?
S4: It's pretty fun. I thought that I thought that that moment, like,
S4: I think that really rammed it home for a lot
S4: of people. And like you said, it was and I
S4: don't think many people knew that she. Fran Drescher like
S4: who obviously we all know from the nanny is involved.
S4: But it was like this incredible speech. And, you know,
S4: the way we consume culture, the Internet, just like packaged
S4: it up and repurposed it and like smashed it out
S4: there so everyone saw it. And yeah, so I think
S4: like everyone that I've spoken to, that's kind of not
S4: as like in to the business has been like, Oh yeah,
S4: like the Fran thing was pretty cool. So that seems
S4: to be this like kind of flashpoint.
S3: Yeah, I feel like campaigns like this need a moment.
S3: And that was the momentum. That was the moment to
S3: launch the momentum.
S2: It's the most fascinating thing about like a labor dispute
S2: is by its nature, not the most exciting kind of
S2: topic of choice. And, you know, if it was another
S2: category of workers in another country that went on strike,
S2: I don't know if it would have gripped global attention
S2: the way this has. But we're talking about the biggest
S2: names in the world. We're talking about people who literally
S2: act and hold our attention for a living. And we're
S2: talking about a character and an actress as iconic as
S2: Fran Drescher giving this kind of speech. It I was
S2: a bit surprised to see it across like all my
S2: feeds from all sorts of like regular people who don't
S2: work in the industry. And I think because we'll get
S2: into this when we talk about some of the issues
S2: but like. Friends speech went beyond acting and writing like
S2: she was very explicit in being like the world doesn't
S2: feel right at the moment. Like Wall Street's making a
S2: lot of money and lots of regular people are having
S2: their jobs and livelihoods threatened by technology and all this
S2: kind of really intense change. And this is a moment
S2: for us to all pay attention. So let's talk about
S2: some of those key issues because. I feel like understanding
S2: the sticking points is important to understanding what is really
S2: happening in Hollywood right now. I feel like what's really
S2: interesting is that the last couple of times there's been
S2: an actor's strike. It's revolved around technology and essentially the
S2: industry going through technological change and how actors are fighting
S2: to be properly compensated for that. In that 1960 strike
S2: that we've mentioned a couple of times, the key sticking
S2: point was actually TV. TV had been around at that
S2: stage for like a decade. And actors were saying, Well,
S2: when my show gets aired on television and the network
S2: makes a bunch of money on it from selling ads,
S2: I should get a portion of that money. And they
S2: do now. And it's like a bedrock of how the
S2: television and acting industries work. When the actors went on
S2: strike in the 1980s, it was about VHS tapes which
S2: had just started to become a thing. And they're like, Well,
S2: when they sell my tape for $25, I should get
S2: a cut of that money. And they do in 2007.
S2: This is so interesting because the Writers Guild, you read
S2: like kind of the the sticking points then and you
S2: read the marketing and the kind of propaganda from both sides.
S2: And they're talking about like the Internet, but they're talking
S2: about it in this way that they're not quite sure.
S2: They're like, our writers are being asked to write shows
S2: for websites. And like The Office was this one where
S2: the Office did this series of like off season online
S2: shorts and the writers weren't getting paid proper rates for it.
S2: And they're like, You know what? Maybe like down the
S2: track we might be doing a fair bit of like
S2: writing for the Internet. Maybe we should get proper payment
S2: for that. And that's what the strike was about. And
S2: they won essentially. And now that's when 99% of us
S2: watch things is on streaming platforms. Now, the two big
S2: issues are around AI, which which is a complicated one
S2: that will delve into and residuals from streaming. Let's start
S2: with this streaming thing, because I think that's the most,
S2: I guess like in line with these other issues that
S2: feels like the evolution of how the industry is going.
S2: Thomas One of the key issues has been the lack
S2: of transparency around like what is being watched and therefore
S2: what writers and actors should get compensated for. Can you
S2: talk us through a bit like about those problems in
S2: what the actors are fighting for right now?
S4: Yeah. So this is like you said, it kind of
S4: is one of the main, I guess, bones of contention. It's,
S4: it's basically a viewership based residual. So everyone gets a
S4: residual like as baked into your contract when you're on
S4: a show. But the actors are arguing that they should.
S4: Should the show be a success on streaming? There should
S4: be a further residual that is paid to reflect that success. Unfortunately,
S4: as has always been the way with streaming platforms, they
S4: refuse to share data. They don't ever say, You know,
S4: how many people are watching, how many hours are being watched.
S4: It's like they're very, very private when it comes to
S4: the success of a show. Obviously, that doesn't mean we
S4: don't know what successful because we do. And so essentially
S4: what the Sag-aftra members have proposed is that they they
S4: have proposed using data from Parrot Analytics, which is a
S4: company that kind of like aggregates a bunch of data
S4: pools in, you know, search queries, fan sites, social media
S4: engagement downloads, and can kind of paint a picture of
S4: how popular a show is.
S2: Sort of the next best thing to having the actual
S2: ratings from the companies themselves.
S4: Exactly. Exactly. And they've basically gone to the studios and said, look,
S4: we'll use parrot analytics. We know how popular shows are
S4: and we can figure out the viewership based residuals off that.
S4: The studios have said absolutely no to parrot analytics, of course,
S4: like the Sag-aftra saying that we're happy to do it
S4: off your data, should you share it, but they refuse to.
S4: So basically, like that's kind of this real main sticking
S4: point because you've got you know, there's so many examples.
S4: I know that the creator of Squid Game comes out
S4: and talks about all the time like he had one
S4: of the most popular shows over the last decade, and
S4: he made no extra money despite creating a phenomenon for
S4: Netflix who have made so much money off squid game
S4: and squid game merchandise and the IP of squid game.
S4: So yeah, it really is this, you know, it's I'm
S4: not surprised. They're kind of like sticking to their guns
S4: on this one because it's insane that that you know
S4: you can make the same for a squid game as
S4: you might make for something that does nowhere near as
S4: well And.
S3: Obviously back in the day it would have been based
S3: on TV ratings because you often hear about in the
S3: case of friends, by the end of that series, they
S3: were getting $1 million in.
S2: Episode. Yeah, they could negotiate every year. They were like, Oh, okay,
S2: these are published every day. We see how many people
S2: watch it. And that gave them leverage.
S4: Exactly. So yeah, that, that I think will be a really,
S4: really big one. And it'll be interesting because, you know,
S4: there are lots of rumors and I know we've all
S4: been kind of engaging in the content around this strike
S4: since it happened, but it seems like there were the
S4: commonly accepted narrative is that most of the major studios
S4: were kind of willing to bend. And it may be
S4: there were two of the big kind of platforms that
S4: were absolutely refusing to share their data. I mean, I
S4: think if you were to read between the lines, it
S4: might be easy to figure out who that could be.
S4: But yeah, I it looks like this is one that
S4: neither side will want to bend on. So it'll be
S4: to see what happens.
S2: Yeah, it feels like what is really going on here
S2: is like the reckoning of the modern entertainment industry. Like
S2: these big old school. Companies like Warner Brothers, NBC, they
S2: you know, obviously they always like fought for the right
S2: to make as much profit as possible, but they had
S2: a pretty well understood distribution model. They worked with actors
S2: in movies for decades and decades ahead, relationships, the negotiated
S2: fees they played by the rules. Then they had TV
S2: arms and they played by the rules when it came
S2: to ratings, Then the rise of things like Netflix and
S2: Amazon and Disney completely upended that entire landscape, not just
S2: in terms of how you made and watched television, but also,
S2: I guess, things like keeping viewer statistics secret so you
S2: have all the power, you know, you know, there are
S2: all these stories that writers and actors tell you when
S2: they go to pitch to a streaming platform. And there's
S2: these references to the amorphous algorithm, right? And it's not
S2: just like how many people watched a show. It's like,
S2: how long do they watch a show for? Do they
S2: watch many episodes of that show? All these really opaque
S2: things that give these huge companies all of the control
S2: and reduce writers and actors to kind of competing while
S2: they're blindfolded with one arm tied around their back. And
S2: I think for a long time, everyone was okay to
S2: live with that because there was so much money like
S2: like the money was being thrown around. Huge showrunners were
S2: being signed to like 200, $300 million. Overall deals. But
S2: we've seen in the last kind of 12 months that
S2: start to fall apart, like there's a bit of a
S2: bust in this previous kind of what was a streaming boom.
S2: The bubbles popped a little bit and the money is
S2: drying up. And so actors and writers are saying, okay,
S2: we have to get what we can now. The other issue,
S2: the other side to this thing and we should say
S2: there's a bunch of different issues to do with minimum
S2: rates to pay and other things. But the technology side
S2: of it is the big one. The other one is
S2: a AI that came up with the Writers Guild as well. Mel,
S2: But it seems to be a big part of what
S2: the actors are fighting for. What's the what's the key
S2: fault line when it comes to artificial intelligence?
S3: Yeah. So as you were saying before, when we were
S3: looking at the other strikes, actors have been quite forward
S3: looking when it comes to protecting their rights into the future.
S3: So they want more protections and safeguards about how AI
S3: is used. And it is important to say the AI
S3: is already used in films. Harrison Ford in Indiana Jones
S3: being De-aged synthesize voices, visual effects. But obviously as AI
S3: gets more advanced and more available, it's being increasingly used
S3: and we're seeing this pop up already. Sarah Silverman had
S3: a copyright infringement lawsuit that she filed against OpenAI and
S3: Meta saying that they were kind of breaching her copyright
S3: by training their systems, using their firms. And other actors
S3: are already writing clauses about AI into their contracts. Keanu
S3: Reeves has one that bans studios from digitally editing him.
S3: So it's already a pressing issue, but obviously it's going
S3: to become an increasingly relevant one. And I think the
S3: contracts that these unions are signing a three years, so
S3: they kind of need to do it now or they're
S3: going to miss the opportunity.
S4: So obviously, like because the thing I found interesting about
S4: this is like, obviously if you're a Keanu Reeves, you're
S4: going to have like, I mean, you're Keanu Reeves, you've
S4: got the best management team. Like no studio is going
S4: to whatever you put in your contract. They'll probably just
S4: go along with like, you're going to be fine. But
S4: it is like obviously and this is the whole like
S4: wider problem with the strike. Like it's obviously about not
S4: the top 2%, but like the other 98% or 90%
S4: or whatever. And like especially for the background actors and stuff,
S4: like I think they talk about it, it's like, you know,
S4: a day rate for a background actor in Hollywood typically
S4: is like $135 American a day. And, you know, essentially
S4: they could now pay you that. Once you sign the contract,
S4: you've got zero leverage to be able to be like, oh, well,
S4: wait a minute, I don't want that to be part
S4: of my deal. And then instead of what could be
S4: potentially ten days work as an extra, you've just had
S4: one and you'll never get another day again because they
S4: can just continually use your likeness in perpetuity.
S3: Yeah, that's it. And I think Duncan Crab Tree Island,
S3: who is the chief negotiator for SAG.
S2: Right name, by the way. I know, I know Derek.
S4: I feel like maybe the middle name was like a
S4: bit of a glow up when he got to Hollywood.
S4: He's like, I need something.
S3: It feels like a last name I might generate. Yeah,
S3: he did come out and say that. And again, this
S3: is obviously only one side of the negotiation that the
S3: studios had proposed that background actors could be able to
S3: get scanned and then their company, the companies they're working for,
S3: could just continue to to reuse that likeness of them
S3: over and over and over again. And it sounds a
S3: bit kind of far fetched, the idea that you would
S3: always have the same background actors in every single show
S3: you watch. But yeah, I mean.
S2: I think this is the this is the this is
S2: the thing that like. Everything that we're talking about sort
S2: of sounds a little bit surreal, right? Like Hollywood, big
S2: studios want to use AI to capture background actors to
S2: then just like never have to practice again. But I
S2: guarantee you, like you said, Mel, this is already being
S2: used in other capacities now. And it almost makes it's
S2: almost completely irrational. Like just leave aside personal views on
S2: like who's on the right side in this debate. Of course,
S2: a giant company is going to try and minimize its
S2: costs and it's going to harness the latest technology to
S2: try to do that. Like that is a completely rational
S2: thing for them to try and do. And similarly, it
S2: makes total sense for the union to say, hang on
S2: a second, like AI is coming and we want to
S2: work with you on it, but can we at least
S2: talk about how we're probably compensated for it? And I
S2: think the fact that from what the union has said,
S2: that the AMP has just been like, no, this is
S2: a red line issue, suggests that they think while the
S2: rest of us are just like playing around on ChatGPT
S2: and making jokes, the big companies are like, we are
S2: going to make so much money from this technology. This
S2: is a key issue for us.
S4: Yeah, the fact that they were so staunch on it
S4: makes you like they've obviously can see the dollar signs.
S4: And like with this one, we absolutely will not negotiate on.
S4: I mean, everyone that I know uses ChatGPT to write
S4: like funny poems in the style of like certain people, whatever.
S4: But this is like proper issue. But then also, like,
S4: I guess it becomes a concern of with the bigger stars,
S4: like you basically give your likeness over and they can
S4: use you for like promotional materials, stuff you would normally
S4: be paid for. But also then like you become this
S4: kind of weird instrument for the studio and you kind
S4: of don't have any say over what they use it for.
S3: And it does feel like that first episode in Black Mirror. Yeah, yeah.
S4: Yeah. Joan is awful. I know. It really is. Like, yeah,
S4: it's pretty terrifying.
S3: And for the writers, so the actors are particularly concerned
S3: about their likeness and their representation being used, but the
S3: writers as well, they're worried about how I could be
S3: used to write and finish scripts, craft outlines do dialogue,
S3: so essentially that I would ingest their work and then
S3: be able to parrot it, which I think is a
S3: is a reasonable fear. And we know we know from
S3: our own organization and industry that media companies are looking
S3: into how I could be used to do certain jobs.
S2: That's one of the bits of this I find so interesting.
S2: Like Fran in her speech, again, she said, we're all
S2: going to be in jeopardy of being replaced by machines,
S2: which so sort of sounds like a line from the Terminator.
S2: But I think but I think what like this is
S2: almost like the canary in the coal mine. Like like
S2: the actors are blowing up these huge issues around AI
S2: and like just technology and transparency. But this is kind
S2: of coming across society and I think it's slowly dawning
S2: on people that this is worth talking about. Those are
S2: really great. New York Times, like in a little Critics
S2: note section that compared every worker in the world to
S2: a background actor. Essentially, they said all of us faced
S2: the same risk. Every time that there's a technological or
S2: cultural shift that happens, companies will rewrite the terms of
S2: employment to their advantage, citing financial pressures while paying their
S2: top executives tens and hundreds of millions of dollars. Like
S2: this is not just something that is happening in Hollywood,
S2: but as we said a couple of times, we're all
S2: paying attention because it's Margot Robbie and, you know, and
S2: big name stars who are who are talking about it.
S2: So basically a bunch of issues, the key ones coming
S2: down to AI and the lack of data transparency in
S2: what people are viewing. The agreement that currently exists was
S2: due to expire on July 1st. They managed to get
S2: a couple of weeks extra to try and negotiate. Nothing
S2: seemingly was done in that time except Bobby. The Bobby
S2: marketing machine kind of fell between the window of July
S2: 1st and July 12th. I don't know whether or not
S2: that was like a sweetheart deal. We've just got to
S2: get this movie out. This movie is going to save Hollywood.
S2: Let's get it out and then we can go on strike.
S2: So they kind of agree and then they do go
S2: on strike. And the response, like Mel, you said that
S2: when you realized that it was at the Oppenheimer red carpet,
S2: that was so fascinating because I was in London and
S2: they were all in the red carpet and they all
S2: left the red cop. It's like Matt Damon, Cillian Murphy,
S2: Emily Blunt, really fascinating. Margot Robbie was asked about it
S2: on the red carpet. She gave a pretty sharp statement,
S2: you know, supporting the union, supporting the strike.
S9: That might be a strike tonight. Are you in support
S9: of the strike and absolutely do be prepared to strike
S9: as well.
S10: Yeah, absolutely. No, I very much in support of all
S10: the unions and I'm a part of SAG, so I
S10: would absolutely.
S2: Stand by that. This is like. It's really big. Like
S2: we're talking about over 100,000 actors, but not all of
S2: those are like Margot Robbie and and Killian Murphy, which
S2: is also another interesting dynamic to this. Like, did those
S2: guys get the attention? But 99% of the people in
S2: the picket lines are people we probably have never seen
S2: of a heard of.
S4: Yeah. And I think that I think that's probably the
S4: biggest problem this strike faces like again even talking to
S4: people over the weekend I think the knee jerk response
S4: because they see these very famous, very rich people on
S4: the picket lines and they're the face of it. People
S4: like struggle to empathize. They're like, oh, what is like,
S4: you know, like Keanu Reeves going to be okay? What
S4: do we need to do a fucking Kickstarter for Margot?
S4: Robbie Like, obviously not. But like, you know, Matt Damon
S4: put it really well on the Oppenheimer red carpet right
S4: before they walked. He was like, Obviously, this is not
S4: about me is unbelievably important.
S11: We got to protect the people who are kind of
S11: on the margins. And 26,000 bucks a year is what
S11: you have to make to get your health insurance. And
S11: and there are a lot of people who residual payments
S11: or what carry them across that threshold. And and if
S11: if those residual payments dry up, so does their health care.
S11: And that's absolutely unacceptable.
S4: And obviously, the cost of living crisis is happening all
S4: over the world. Like, you know, it is about these
S4: people who are like struggling to pay their bills and
S4: all of these things impact. And especially, you know, like
S4: if you are a jobbing actor on an okay show
S4: like you, you live off residuals. Like that's how you
S4: make your money, that's how you pay your rent. So
S4: I do think that that is your guy.
S2: Your guy, Glen Powell from Top Gun basically said that, right?
S4: Yeah. Well, that's the thing. Like, he's a real interesting one.
S4: He tweeted about it. You know, he's super famous now.
S4: We all know him. He knows my friend Sydney. But
S4: then he goes on this.
S2: Filmed before the strike, by the way. Very, very glad.
S4: Thank God. I know. But he was on this show.
S4: This is like a Ryan Murphy show, Scream Queens. It
S4: was like pretty popular. And like, he cites that as
S4: like that show in the residuals he made that like,
S4: kept him afloat. And then lo and behold, he's actually
S4: a really good actor. And then now he's famous. But like,
S4: that's how the system works. And you need to be
S4: able to have this ecosystem that supports people while they're
S4: still figuring themselves out because that's who are going to
S4: be the stars, be the next Margot.
S3: Robbie Yeah, and I think when you look at the
S3: attention that some of these stars, Margot and Cillian Murphy,
S3: are bringing to the strike, if you compare it to
S3: the writers strike, which has been going on since May,
S3: and I don't really think that made huge news over
S3: here and definitely didn't garner the global attention that the
S3: actor's strike has garnered. It's because they have these very
S3: recognizable faces. So I think, you know them speaking out,
S3: even though they obviously have their own teams negotiating their
S3: contracts for them and they have all the power in
S3: many of those situations, they are necessary, I think, to
S3: keep the momentum going for the strike.
S4: Yeah. And I guess the good the good thing, if
S4: anyone's worried at least about the optics of like actors,
S4: high profile actors complaining or crying poor, nothing can be
S4: worse than the optics of Bob Iger. Melanie's close personal.
S2: Friends at Sun Valley, Idaho. Right. With all the billionaires? Yes.
S4: He was commenting on the strike from a billionaires retreat
S4: with Tim Cook and the rest of like the very
S4: rich few and basically saying like, this is the worst
S4: time for this to happen. And, you know, it's very disruptive.
S4: I'm trying to get a fucking jaw massage back here.
S4: And yeah. And you know, I've heard interviews across the
S4: weekend from the SAG team and Duncan Crabtree Island saying like,
S4: we would have loved Bob to have come to the negotiations.
S4: Like he sent some of the lower downs at Disney.
S4: He wasn't even there. And then to come out to
S4: take a five minutes out of his billionaire retreat to
S4: comment on it was just terrible. Terrible for the studios.
S3: Yeah. I feel like the rhetoric that is coming out
S3: of the studios is very strong handed. Deadline Had they
S3: were quoting an executive as saying something essentially like.
S4: Let them die on the vine. Yeah, we'll let them
S4: lose their houses.
S3: Lose their houses, we'll outlast them.
S2: I feel like the timing of that story was particularly bad.
S2: It was like these anonymous quotes from executives, you know, saying,
S2: we're going to starve them out. Like we're going to
S2: watch them strike until they can't pay their mortgages and like,
S2: they're made homeless. And that came out like three days
S2: before the Screen Actors Guild was deciding whether to go
S2: on strike or not. And maybe they thought the execs
S2: that that would scare people. But I think all it
S2: did was like galvanize the industry. And people said, you
S2: guys are crooks. Ron Perlman, who, you know, actor of
S2: Sons of Anarchy and, you know, a few different movies
S2: and things have been around for a while. He he
S2: I don't know if you saw his video where he
S2: went on like he went on Instagram or Twitter and
S2: he was like, there's many ways people can lose their homes.
S2: They can lose their homes when they strike or they
S2: can lose their homes because we will find out who
S2: these executives are and we'll find out where they live.
S2: And we will, like kick them out of their homes
S2: and burn them down.
S12: There's a lot of ways to lose your house. You
S12: wish that on people. You wish that families starve while
S12: you're making 27 fucking million dollars a year for creating nothing.
S12: Be careful, motherfucker. Be really careful.
S2: Like, to your point, Thomas, of whose side are people
S2: on the optics of, like, Matt Damon versus a regular actor?
S2: Most people, I think, like, have more of an affinity
S2: for the Hollywood actors they like than they do for
S2: faceless CEOs who run like Jeff. But he's also like
S2: no normal person, I think is like, I really like
S2: Matt Damon's movies, but I think Jeff Bezos has a
S2: point that no.
S4: I literally no one I know except Mel loves Bob Iger.
S3: So he just helps me resolve my tech issues.
S4: But, you know, yes, you're right. No, no one empathizes
S4: with the studio heads. And I mean, I think it
S4: was kind of perfect that he was at this kind
S4: of weird, I don't know, orgy for the ultra wealthy. Yeah.
S2: So I guess this is the challenge with with any
S2: kind of strike, right? Because you're right that the top
S2: tier A-list Hollywood actors, they're not the ones who have
S2: the most to benefit from the strike. They're doing it
S2: for the rest of the industry. But they also kind
S2: of have the least to lose because they can live
S2: in their mansions even if they don't work for a
S2: few months or a year. But there's a lot of
S2: people who are losing a lot of money in this strike.
S2: Like even in Australia, there's now hundreds if not thousands
S2: of crew who haven't made the decision to go on strike,
S2: but have essentially been stood down because 1 or 2
S2: Hollywood actors are off. There's also the fact, as you
S2: mentioned at the start of this chat, Thomas, like actors
S2: can't promote shows, so there's no interviews happening. Red carpets
S2: are being impacted, film festivals, which employ lots of people.
S2: Toronto Film Festival might not go ahead because they might
S2: not be stars. That award shows like the Emmys could
S2: be postponed and cancelled. This is going to have a
S2: significant impact, not just in the sense that we can't
S2: watch things, but in terms of economic impact, in terms
S2: of people not having jobs, that sort of thing. How
S2: long do you think this can go on and do
S2: you think the longer it goes on, it shifts the
S2: dynamic of like what side people are on?
S3: Yeah, I think when you look at it historically, they
S3: do go out for a very long time, like 1960
S3: when your friend, my boy Ron taught us was in charge.
S2: What are your thoughts on his policies? Thomas Ronald Reagan
S2: I'm actually.
S4: Just about to do a part on that tomorrow.
S3: So he's he's like hurriedly.
S4: But let me just say, I don't know if you
S4: guys are familiar with Reaganomics.
S2: What can you can you hear the question? Can you
S2: break it down for us?
S4: Uh, dance.
S2: This man.
S4: This is worse than when you call me Jonah Hill.
S3: I'm, like, squirming watching you, though, actually, now. Well, while
S3: we've been waylaid onto another subject, I wanted to ask
S3: if you were getting residuals for your starring role because
S3: you were in a short film, right?
S4: I was, yeah. I mean, it was all Australian crew.
S4: So we can we can chuck it up on on
S4: the socials.
S2: Just before we move on from Reagan. Are you pro
S2: anti Reagan? Can you just give us like that take.
S4: I'm anti Reagan.
S2: Y'all right?
S4: I don't want to say Mel.
S2: I did I did completely waylay you as you were discussing.
S2: You know, you guys bullied me.
S3: I was happy for the distraction.
S4: Yeah. This is your favorite thing.
S2: How how long how long was this strike? In 1960.
S3: It went for 21. The writers were off for 21
S3: weeks and the actors were for six. But for everything
S3: I've read around this, they're saying like they probably won't
S3: be back till September at the earliest.
S2: Yeah. Our guy Brian Cox from Succession was like, it
S2: could go on to the end of the year. It's
S2: a big deal.
S3: Oh, I loved that interview where he appeared. It was
S3: I kind of felt like, Oh, you're back. It was
S3: so nice. But yeah, I think it will be interesting
S3: to see because obviously there's heaps of attention and hype
S3: around it at the moment and a lot of media coverage.
S3: But I wonder if four weeks down the track if
S3: we're still going to be talking about it. And that's
S3: when I guess those actors and writers who who don't
S3: have a lot of money are really going to be suffering.
S3: And it's going to be hard, I think, to keep
S3: up the momentum once it kind of fades out of
S3: public interest if it does.
S4: Yeah, it'd be interesting. I spoke to some crew members
S4: over the weekend that were employed on both Mortal Kombat
S4: to and Apple's Never before, and they all had the
S4: same quite funny response, which was pretty much at 5 p.m.
S4: on Friday, they started texting everyone they know that works
S4: in reality TV for work. So that's pretty grim. Yeah,
S4: but I mean, that could be a reality. And they
S4: seem to think that like all of their contacts in
S4: LA were like, not even a chance. It's over before
S4: the end of September. Wow. So, you know, they're preparing
S4: for like a couple of months at least. I mean,
S4: I really don't know. It very much seems like neither
S4: side is going to blink first. And they seem very
S4: far away on very core issues to both sides. So,
S4: you know, Carol Lombardi, who's the head of the AMP,
S4: she was quite forthright in saying that like they won't
S4: talk with SAG while they're on strike, which I don't
S4: really understand how that's supposed to work because.
S2: You're never going to end it. I mean, business has
S2: always said that they're always like, while they're on strike,
S2: they're being obstinate and then just hope that they blink.
S2: But obviously there will be a conversation at some point, right?
S2: Even if it's like behind closed doors. I want to
S2: ask you guys about like how this could be different
S2: to 2007. Obviously, we didn't have streaming then. We had
S2: a handful of networks that made TV. When you shut
S2: that down, you shut down television and you just don't
S2: have movies and TV for a while, and that starts
S2: to cost. Works money because they need content to sell
S2: ads against. But in the current ecosystem where there is
S2: so much in the pipeline, there's already too much for
S2: us to watch. And on top of that, you've got
S2: an increasingly globalized industry. You've got Netflix that could weather
S2: this storm by just running like 100 K dramas, right?
S2: Or like doing a million Bridgerton series or the Crown
S2: season 55 or whatever. It seems like there's a real
S2: challenge here, like the Hollywood actors can can go on strike.
S2: But could the streamers just whether it end up breaking
S2: the union that way?
S3: Yeah, I think they could. I think there is that
S3: risk there because the streamers do have a global network
S3: to draw upon. So there's no shortage of content. And
S3: also we have named some of the big shows that
S3: are coming up, but there's a heat that will be
S3: in post-production that is still going to hit our screens
S3: over the next few months. So I think it is
S3: a risk for the actors, whereas back in the back
S3: in the day when you could kind of, you know,
S3: we were all watching TV, it would be way more
S3: noticeable when those shows were dropping out of the schedule.
S3: But now I kind of think the streams are just
S3: going to keep refreshing their home pages and we might
S3: not notice it. I was going to ask, though, I wonder,
S3: do you think that the streamers will invest more in
S3: local production, i.e. will see more Australian productions being made
S3: in the next kind of or commissioned for the next year?
S2: Our colleague Callum Jasmine, who's the media writer here at
S2: the Herald and The Age, had had an interesting story
S2: about this today. He was speaking to a few different
S2: producers and streamers and they were saying it's a little
S2: bit too early, like to tell whether that will happen.
S2: But reading between the lines, like I think streamers like Netflix,
S2: like Amazon, like Disney Plus have been building up production teams.
S2: Kia and I think they've got the infrastructure to do that.
S2: So depending on how long this goes, I think it
S2: would make sense for them to look to other markets.
S2: And I think something like Australia, like you've got Korean drama,
S2: you've got like Netflix and India, you've got all these things,
S2: but a market like Australia where there's already a lot
S2: of overlap, right? And it's English language and these sorts
S2: of things. I think it does make sense. I think
S2: this goes on for a while. I think a bunch
S2: of stuff might get greenlit here that previously wouldn't have
S2: or what they might do is just buy up Australian
S2: stuff for the states. Like maybe the Office Australia becomes
S2: like Amazon's key thing that comes.
S4: Out or like Netflix suddenly is like, Oh, we're going
S4: to go, you know, like, let's really get cracking on
S4: the next season of Heartbreak High because it was such
S4: a big global hit and you know, we've got nothing
S4: else coming. So yeah, maybe this is a good time
S4: to get my Reagan show greenlit.
S2: You you mentioned reality TV, Thomas. I mean, that was
S2: one of the big consequences of the writers strike. I
S2: don't think people necessarily are aware of how much of
S2: reality TV exists because nothing else could be made. And
S2: that has changed everything. It's cheaper to make. You can
S2: make it without, you know, unions, all that sort of stuff.
S2: We're probably going to get so much more of it
S2: now as well, aren't we?
S4: Well, for sure. And you know, people often like cite
S4: reality TV as the end of days and oh, my God.
S4: But like, yeah, prepare for more of that because it's yeah,
S4: it is easy to make. It requires little to no
S4: talent under different agreements and they can just pump it
S4: out often just in a studio or wherever. So yeah.
S4: And now you have a whole like the trickle down
S4: effect of everyone in the industry desperate for work, like
S4: hair and makeup and crew and production and everything. So yeah,
S4: you'll have this ready made kind of like ecosystem ready
S4: to work. And no doubt the studios and streamers will
S4: begin to pump out more of that and they can
S4: turn shows around so quickly, though.
S3: I hope it shows because I do think that the
S3: appetite for reality shows has fallen off quite substantially. Definitely
S3: in Australia. When we look at the ratings of reality
S3: shows over.
S2: Here, yeah, things like The Bachelor just don't hit anymore.
S4: Yeah, Married at First Sight is really great.
S3: Oh, always the company man.
S2: I mean, it is. It's a good.
S4: Show. It actually is good. My favorite show. No, but
S4: the one thing the one thing I would say in
S4: the flip side to all this, like it is a
S4: very different time. And I think, you know, 15 years
S4: ago or whatever, the strike was much more impactful in
S4: our day to day. But on the flip side, the
S4: rise of social media and everything means like the the
S4: amount of like pressure that these stars can put on
S4: and keep it in the news feed constantly is a
S4: massive bonus.
S2: I think that's a really good point, Thomas. I mean,
S2: even like we sent each other the clip of Margot Robbie,
S2: you know, at some Barbie event, like Margot Robbie is
S2: one of the biggest stars in the world right now
S2: because of all the hype around Barbie. She is like,
S2: you know, very photogenic. She looks great. She's very exciting
S2: and bubbly. And she gets asked about stuff and she says,
S2: I support labor. I support unions, I support the strike.
S2: And that goes viral on Instagram. And people have been
S2: there's a clip of her from, I think like 10
S2: or 15 years ago when she was on Neighbours and
S2: she was part of Al Union, the MEAA Media Entertainment
S2: Arts Alliance.
S13: Sometimes issues come up with our payslips and stuff and
S13: over time there's just technical things that for someone who's
S13: new to acting, you don't know what what it's about
S13: or what you're. Actually entitled to and and being a
S13: part of the union, I can then go to our
S13: union representative who was Alan Fletcher at work. Dr. Carl
S13: and just make sure that I'm not being ripped off.
S13: And it's good to know that there are things they
S13: should be abiding by and stuff we are entitled to
S13: to make sure we get correct pay or breaks or overtime.
S2: There's a clip where people have mashed that up with
S2: her most recent comments. And it's like this Barbie is
S2: a union Barbie and it's getting millions, like tens of
S2: millions of views. And I think that is something that
S2: has never happened before. And I'm really interested to see
S2: not just the impact of that in terms of public
S2: opinion on the Hollywood strike, but how many, like regular
S2: people have maybe never thought about like labor issues or
S2: unions or strikes are like, whoa, Margot Robbie, who's like
S2: the hot chick from The Wolf of Wall Street, is
S2: like telling me to go on strike to protect myself
S2: against AI and evil Wall Street companies. It's pretty fascinating
S2: moment in history.
S4: It's like the Big Short all over again. Just like.
S2: Yeah, exactly. In the bathtub.
S14: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
S4: But I think and that's the important thing. Like there's
S4: a famous quote when you can't make them see the light,
S4: make them feel the heat. That's President Ronald Reagan said that.
S3: Sorry. Where did you. Are you. Hang on. I'm looking.
S3: I'm on.
S4: Brainy quote. It's actually a really appropriate quote.
S2: That is fitting. It's a great quote for this month.
S4: Yes. Thank you. But yeah, that's you will see these
S4: A-listers start to galvanize now. And it will be interesting,
S4: like especially for this stuff coming up, like we're in
S4: an Emmy voting season now. Normally there's like so much
S4: like for your consideration, like they can't use social media.
S4: We're just gonna have this full blackout. It's going to
S4: be very, very strange. And I think I still think,
S4: you know, the regular civilians out there probably don't really
S4: appreciate how big a deal it is. It even took
S4: all of us a little while to be like, oh, actually,
S4: like as you start to like, realize the layers to it.
S4: Give it two weeks, we'll give it a month. And
S4: I think everyone will really start to, you know, they'll
S4: be like, it just looks like blackout. I mean, nothing
S4: to talk about. No news. Yeah.
S2: When Bobby finally comes out and people realize Margot, Robbie
S2: cannot talk about it, she can't talk about the reaction
S2: to Bobby. That will be quite a significant moment, I think.
S2: I think that'll be the next big check point for
S2: all of this stuff. Yeah.
S3: Or even just thinking about the Bobby campaign, what it
S3: would have been like if you minus all of that
S3: cast and crew talking about it, you know, their global tour.
S3: So many of the stories about Bobby were about the
S3: off screen and off set kind of antics, and you
S3: just would have had none of that, though I do
S3: feel sad because I really enjoy that the writers haven't
S3: got as much attention because they do have very good placards.
S3: But there was one I saw on the picket line
S3: that was like, without writers you get dot, dot, dot
S3: the idle.
S4: Yeah, that was great.
S3: So I do think they do have very good, good
S3: placards but just haven't been able to come through as much.
S2: Well, I reckon that's a good place to leave it.
S2: I feel like we did a pretty decent job of
S2: covering the ins and outs. I, I doubt that it'll
S2: be the last time we talk about this. It will
S2: certainly impact the show in a way like we had
S2: Jeremy Allen White hopefully lined up to do it. You know,
S2: we interview high profile actors here, pretty regularly and you
S2: probably won't hear that for a while. But as mentioned
S2: at the top of the show, we're very excited to
S2: be back this Thursday with our Bobby and Oppenheimer Breakdown
S2: and maybe any kind of union updates that occur. But Thomas,
S2: thank you. Mel, thank you.
S3: Tell me, did you have more fun as a blonde?
S2: I'm in the funnest era of my life right now.
S4: Well, I'm off to just brush up on my Reaganomics.
S4: I'll be your biggest.
S3: Hit next week.
S2: The wealth trickles down, Thomas. Just remember that.
S4: Something slowing the growth of government spending.
S2: This episode of The Drop was produced by Chai Wong.
S2: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
S2: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
S2: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
S2: a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week.