1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:05,559 S1: In an abrupt conclusion to Australia s most intensive manhunt, 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,840 S1: self-described sovereign citizen Desi Freeman was shot dead by police 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,680 S1: on Monday morning. For more than 200 days, Freeman evaded 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,200 S1: police after killing two police officers at a rural property 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:23,239 S1: in Victoria's high country on August 26th last year. I'm 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,600 S1: Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're listening to The Morning Edition 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,560 S1: from The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. Today, reporter 8 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,280 S1: Melissa Cunningham on how the deadly saga of Daisy Freeman 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:41,440 S1: came to an end. Welcome, Melissa, to the podcast. 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,000 S2: Thanks so much for having me, Sam. 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,640 S1: Okay, well, let's start at the beginning because this manhunt 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,400 S1: for Daisy Freeman, it ended on Monday morning. Can you 13 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:50,879 S1: tell us what happened? 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:56,000 S2: It did. So police shot Daisy Freeman dead about 8:30 a.m. 15 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,040 S2: this morning. They said Freeman had been living at a 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,360 S2: property on the Victorian side of the Murray River. Um, 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,080 S2: limited details have been given about what unfolded. But what 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,800 S2: we do know is that police arrived at the property 19 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,320 S2: about 5:30 a.m. this morning, and they attempted to negotiate 20 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,580 S2: with Desi Freeman, and he was killed following a three 21 00:01:15,580 --> 00:01:17,160 S2: hour standoff with police. 22 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,200 S3: Good evening. The biggest manhunt in Victoria's history is over 23 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,240 S3: after Desmond Freeman was shot dead by police. 24 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,160 S4: The property he was discovered on at Tulungagung is more 25 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:33,480 S4: than 160km from where the deadly shootout in Papanca unfolded. 26 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,959 S5: It's quite clear to us now that the deceased was 27 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:44,080 S5: given every opportunity to resolve this peacefully and did not 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,119 S5: take that option. 29 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,040 S2: We know that he has come out of the shipping 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,320 S2: container where he is believed to have been living, and 31 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,080 S2: that he was wrapped in a doona. He's dropped that 32 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,760 S2: doona and police have seen that he's holding a gun. Um, 33 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,160 S2: they've tried to negotiate with him. Victoria Police Chief Commissioner 34 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:07,040 S2: Mike Bush said that police on the scene did everything possible, 35 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,270 S2: every possible tactical option that they could to try and 36 00:02:10,270 --> 00:02:13,310 S2: end the standoff in a peaceful manner. Um, but those 37 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:14,709 S2: options were not taken. 38 00:02:14,750 --> 00:02:21,590 S5: I have seen video of the deceased leaving the building 39 00:02:22,030 --> 00:02:25,990 S5: and presenting a firearm at our offices. That action took 40 00:02:26,030 --> 00:02:28,670 S5: away any discretion our officers had. 41 00:02:28,910 --> 00:02:32,310 S2: And he told reporters late today that he was very 42 00:02:32,310 --> 00:02:34,510 S2: comfortable with the actions that had been taken by police 43 00:02:34,510 --> 00:02:37,269 S2: at the scene. And he also revealed that there was 44 00:02:37,270 --> 00:02:41,990 S2: now an independent investigation around what unfolded today, and also 45 00:02:41,990 --> 00:02:45,110 S2: an independent investigation into how Desi Freeman came to be 46 00:02:45,150 --> 00:02:48,150 S2: at this property. We do know that the state Victorian 47 00:02:48,150 --> 00:02:50,590 S2: coroner has also visited the scene today, and she will 48 00:02:50,590 --> 00:02:52,550 S2: lead that independent investigation. 49 00:02:54,790 --> 00:02:57,710 S1: Okay. And so for those who don't know, can you 50 00:02:57,710 --> 00:03:00,510 S1: just quickly bring us up to speed with who Desi 51 00:03:00,510 --> 00:03:03,829 S1: Freeman was and why this case is so significant? 52 00:03:04,389 --> 00:03:08,750 S2: So Desi Freeman, who's previously known as Desmond Philby, was 53 00:03:08,750 --> 00:03:12,630 S2: a self proclaimed sovereign citizen. He allegedly shot dead two 54 00:03:12,630 --> 00:03:16,110 S2: police and injured another officer when they were executing a 55 00:03:16,110 --> 00:03:18,829 S2: search warrant. So he was living on a bus at 56 00:03:18,870 --> 00:03:22,110 S2: a property in Papanca, which is a small sort of 57 00:03:22,150 --> 00:03:26,630 S2: Victorian town. Um, in August last year. And why it's 58 00:03:26,669 --> 00:03:29,150 S2: sort of, I suppose, I mean, obviously the fact that 59 00:03:29,150 --> 00:03:32,510 S2: he has killed two police officers and injured another is, 60 00:03:32,550 --> 00:03:35,190 S2: is a huge story in itself. But he was also 61 00:03:35,190 --> 00:03:37,790 S2: quite well known in this sovereign citizen movement. And he 62 00:03:37,790 --> 00:03:40,950 S2: had many previous run ins with police. He's also for 63 00:03:40,950 --> 00:03:45,350 S2: years displayed contempt for police and the justice system, and 64 00:03:45,350 --> 00:03:49,550 S2: he's known among Anti-authority extremist groups for his public stunts. 65 00:03:49,870 --> 00:03:53,110 S2: He's described police as terrorist thugs and Nazis. And in 66 00:03:53,110 --> 00:03:55,950 S2: the days before the police killings. I remember this at 67 00:03:55,950 --> 00:03:57,630 S2: the time because I was down in pop punk. And 68 00:03:57,630 --> 00:04:00,910 S2: when this happened, his wife Molly, actually confided in a 69 00:04:00,910 --> 00:04:03,950 S2: neighbour that she was really fearful about his mental health. 70 00:04:04,350 --> 00:04:08,270 S1: And can you describe this very tiny and remote community 71 00:04:08,270 --> 00:04:11,630 S1: where this standoff took place early this morning, and the 72 00:04:11,630 --> 00:04:14,110 S1: property there where he was holed up? You know, what 73 00:04:14,110 --> 00:04:15,230 S1: is that like there? 74 00:04:15,950 --> 00:04:19,380 S2: Uh, so the property owner is apparently away and hasn't 75 00:04:19,380 --> 00:04:23,020 S2: been at the property for several months. His brother, Neil Sutherland, 76 00:04:23,060 --> 00:04:25,780 S2: is a local farmer in the area and he's spoken 77 00:04:25,779 --> 00:04:29,580 S2: to ABC radio and the Border Mail, which is the 78 00:04:29,580 --> 00:04:33,580 S2: local daily paper for that area. He claims his family 79 00:04:33,580 --> 00:04:36,100 S2: has never met Desi Freeman. Um, they have nothing to 80 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:39,060 S2: do with the sovereign citizen movement. He says his family 81 00:04:39,060 --> 00:04:41,420 S2: are in shock that Desi Freeman has been living there, 82 00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:43,900 S2: and that his brother had no idea, and they aren't 83 00:04:43,900 --> 00:04:45,580 S2: sure for how long he was living there. 84 00:04:45,620 --> 00:04:48,740 S4: Property where Freeman had been hiding littered with rubbish in 85 00:04:48,740 --> 00:04:54,100 S4: a scene reminiscent of a post-apocalyptic movie. Cars, tractors, three caravans, 86 00:04:54,140 --> 00:04:56,060 S4: even a boat and a canoe. 87 00:04:56,740 --> 00:04:59,900 S2: Late today, Victorian Police Commissioner Mike Bush said in the 88 00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:02,180 S2: last 24 hours, as far as police can tell, there 89 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:05,180 S2: has been no one else at the property. But this 90 00:05:05,180 --> 00:05:07,500 S2: doesn't mean that there hasn't been people in the property. Um, 91 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:09,860 S2: in the past, because it's strongly believed that he was 92 00:05:09,860 --> 00:05:12,580 S2: obviously getting help from somebody and they have not been 93 00:05:12,580 --> 00:05:15,779 S2: able to yet get hold of the owner of the property. 94 00:05:15,779 --> 00:05:18,580 S2: So Neil Sutherland's brother, they haven't been able to talk 95 00:05:18,580 --> 00:05:21,540 S2: to him directly yet. So I think there'll be more 96 00:05:21,690 --> 00:05:23,969 S2: details to come about that in the coming days. 97 00:05:24,290 --> 00:05:27,210 S1: And do we know anything about why he was there 98 00:05:27,250 --> 00:05:30,490 S1: in Walwa and whether he'd actually been assisted by anyone else? 99 00:05:30,490 --> 00:05:32,250 S1: Because there have been a lot of questions that the 100 00:05:32,250 --> 00:05:35,570 S1: police press conferences today about how he was able to 101 00:05:35,610 --> 00:05:38,810 S1: travel so far to Walwa from Papunya, which is some 102 00:05:38,810 --> 00:05:42,170 S1: 200km away, you know, without being detected. 103 00:05:42,730 --> 00:05:45,450 S2: Yes. I mean, it's pretty extraordinary. And there was such 104 00:05:45,450 --> 00:05:48,530 S2: a massive police hunt that was underway. I mean, the 105 00:05:48,529 --> 00:05:52,210 S2: hours and days after, after this occurred. So last year, 106 00:05:52,210 --> 00:05:56,250 S2: police offered a $1 million reward for any information that 107 00:05:56,250 --> 00:06:00,609 S2: led up to his arrest. What we've been told is 108 00:06:00,610 --> 00:06:03,970 S2: that from police sources is that the information came from 109 00:06:03,970 --> 00:06:07,369 S2: a tip off last week. And so, obviously, police became 110 00:06:07,370 --> 00:06:10,089 S2: aware that he could potentially be at this property and 111 00:06:10,089 --> 00:06:14,050 S2: they've swarmed the property. Um this morning they haven't said 112 00:06:14,050 --> 00:06:18,210 S2: much about who was helping him, but they have said 113 00:06:18,210 --> 00:06:20,250 S2: that it would have been extremely difficult for him to 114 00:06:20,290 --> 00:06:22,690 S2: get where he was and to have survived this long 115 00:06:22,850 --> 00:06:26,210 S2: without any assistance. So there is a strong suggestion that 116 00:06:26,210 --> 00:06:28,770 S2: there have been people helping him along the way. 117 00:06:29,810 --> 00:06:32,770 S1: And so I guess the big question that I'm sure 118 00:06:32,770 --> 00:06:35,210 S1: is on everyone's minds right now is how did he 119 00:06:35,210 --> 00:06:38,570 S1: evade police for so long? Yeah. I mean, how did 120 00:06:38,570 --> 00:06:41,609 S1: he do it? Because we know there's been rumors locally, right, 121 00:06:41,610 --> 00:06:44,450 S1: that he had a getaway car park at the at 122 00:06:44,490 --> 00:06:48,049 S1: the airfield, and others are saying he was helped through 123 00:06:48,050 --> 00:06:49,850 S1: the bushland. So what do we know? 124 00:06:50,730 --> 00:06:53,450 S2: We don't know much about how he was assisted. But 125 00:06:53,450 --> 00:06:56,170 S2: you're right, there was there's so many rumours actually, in 126 00:06:56,170 --> 00:06:58,530 S2: the local area. And one of those rumours is that 127 00:06:58,529 --> 00:07:01,690 S2: he had parked a car at the airfield and that 128 00:07:01,690 --> 00:07:04,289 S2: he'd somehow got into that car and then driven his 129 00:07:04,290 --> 00:07:07,210 S2: way there. Others are saying, you know that, and this 130 00:07:07,210 --> 00:07:09,610 S2: is all rumours at this point, and nothing's been confirmed that, 131 00:07:09,650 --> 00:07:13,090 S2: you know, he somehow was able to go from Papanca 132 00:07:13,090 --> 00:07:15,850 S2: to another town called Omeo. And then there's like a 133 00:07:15,850 --> 00:07:19,170 S2: trail that leads directly to near where this property is. 134 00:07:19,410 --> 00:07:22,890 S2: So we somehow kind of walked there. But again, we 135 00:07:22,890 --> 00:07:26,530 S2: really don't know what's what occurred. We do know that 136 00:07:26,530 --> 00:07:29,650 S2: he had strong links to this sovereign citizen movement and 137 00:07:29,650 --> 00:07:32,170 S2: that there is potential for people within that movement to 138 00:07:32,170 --> 00:07:38,570 S2: have assisted him, potentially. But Mike Bush has also said that, yeah, 139 00:07:38,610 --> 00:07:41,850 S2: police have a very good idea of what did occur. Um, 140 00:07:41,850 --> 00:07:44,810 S2: but some of it will be subject to different interpretations. 141 00:07:44,810 --> 00:07:47,410 S2: And this will all play out in a coronial hearing. 142 00:07:50,930 --> 00:07:52,850 S1: Thank you so much for your time. 143 00:07:52,850 --> 00:07:54,050 S2: Thank you so much, Sam. 144 00:07:56,050 --> 00:07:59,810 S1: Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Tammy Mills. 145 00:08:00,290 --> 00:08:02,810 S1: To listen to our episodes as soon as they drop, 146 00:08:02,810 --> 00:08:06,370 S1: follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you 147 00:08:06,370 --> 00:08:10,730 S1: listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so 148 00:08:10,730 --> 00:08:15,410 S1: to support independent journalism, visit The Age or Smh.com.au to 149 00:08:15,970 --> 00:08:19,130 S1: subscribe and to stay up to date, sign up to 150 00:08:19,170 --> 00:08:21,650 S1: our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary of the 151 00:08:21,650 --> 00:08:26,050 S1: day's most important news in your inbox every morning. Links 152 00:08:26,050 --> 00:08:29,730 S1: are in the show notes. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, thanks 153 00:08:29,730 --> 00:08:30,530 S1: for listening.