1 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,880 S1: The new Japanese Prime Minister, Sanae Takaichi, is so pro-donald 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,600 S1: Trump that she's become known as the Trump whisperer. She's 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,280 S1: also just gained an enormous amount of power over the 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,520 S1: weekend in a historic landslide election win. So what will 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,160 S1: this do to Australia if, as predicted, she encourages Prime 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,360 S1: Minister Anthony Albanese to strengthen our ties with the United States? 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,880 S1: I'm Samantha Selinger, Morris, and you're listening to Morning Edition 8 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,080 S1: from The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald. Today, international 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,960 S1: and political editor Peter Hartcher on how Australia manages this 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,839 S1: new relationship with the Japanese prime minister, while heating calls 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:53,360 S1: to decouple from the United States. It's Thursday, February 12th. Hey, Peter. 12 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:54,360 S2: Hi, Samantha. 13 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,800 S1: Okay. You've got to tell me about this historic landslide 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,980 S1: that Japan's first female prime minister secured just over the weekend. 15 00:01:02,340 --> 00:01:06,100 S1: How did Sanae Takaichi manage this? And what powers does 16 00:01:06,100 --> 00:01:09,380 S1: this now give her to make serious changes, perhaps to 17 00:01:09,420 --> 00:01:11,340 S1: how Japan behaves in the world? 18 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:15,100 S2: Well, she not only smashed all tradition by becoming the 19 00:01:15,100 --> 00:01:19,100 S2: first female Prime Minister of Japan when her party first 20 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:22,820 S2: voted her into that position three months ago. She then 21 00:01:22,819 --> 00:01:27,060 S2: proceeded to smash all records for the size of a 22 00:01:27,060 --> 00:01:31,899 S2: government majority in Japan since World War two, since World 23 00:01:31,900 --> 00:01:34,940 S2: War two. The polls said she would probably win and 24 00:01:34,940 --> 00:01:38,780 S2: win big. They didn't predict that she would win more 25 00:01:38,780 --> 00:01:42,540 S2: than two thirds of the entire lower house of Japan's parliament. 26 00:01:43,420 --> 00:01:45,860 S3: It was less than three weeks ago that Japanese Prime 27 00:01:45,860 --> 00:01:50,420 S3: Minister Sanae Takaichi declared this snap election, and now it 28 00:01:50,420 --> 00:01:52,620 S3: appears her gamble has paid off. 29 00:01:52,660 --> 00:01:57,100 S4: Japan's Prime Minister Takaichi has secured a sweeping mandate from 30 00:01:57,100 --> 00:02:01,420 S4: the people after winning yesterday's snap election in a landslide. 31 00:02:01,830 --> 00:02:04,470 S2: So that gives her a lot of a lot of power. 32 00:02:04,950 --> 00:02:07,830 S2: It means that she doesn't have to worry about what 33 00:02:07,830 --> 00:02:10,630 S2: the opposition thinks in the lower house. She can just 34 00:02:10,630 --> 00:02:13,910 S2: steamroll them. It also means she can overrule the upper 35 00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:16,750 S2: house with the two thirds. Or they call it supermajority. 36 00:02:17,630 --> 00:02:20,350 S2: The upper house becomes irrelevant so she can make law 37 00:02:20,710 --> 00:02:24,709 S2: with a free hand, unhindered by the opposition in either chamber. 38 00:02:25,430 --> 00:02:29,390 S2: The other power it gives her is to launch the process, 39 00:02:29,389 --> 00:02:33,550 S2: but not actually to achieve the outcome of revising Japan's 40 00:02:34,150 --> 00:02:41,350 S2: peacetime pacifist constitution, which famously renounces war for all time, 41 00:02:41,350 --> 00:02:44,750 S2: and the ability to wage war, meaning no defence forces. 42 00:02:44,790 --> 00:02:48,230 S2: It gives her that ability to at least begin the process. 43 00:02:48,230 --> 00:02:51,030 S2: But you still need to go through steps including a 44 00:02:51,030 --> 00:02:53,710 S2: national referendum and a two thirds majority. So that's still 45 00:02:53,950 --> 00:02:57,150 S2: a distant prospect. But these are the powers that are 46 00:02:57,150 --> 00:02:59,190 S2: now on her desk. 47 00:02:59,389 --> 00:03:03,090 S1: That's incredible. And I am particularly Interested in this potential 48 00:03:03,090 --> 00:03:05,810 S1: reform to the country's pacifist constitution. I know we've spoken 49 00:03:05,810 --> 00:03:08,889 S1: about this before. It's been in place since 1947, so 50 00:03:08,889 --> 00:03:12,250 S1: obviously this would be a massive change. And I guess 51 00:03:12,250 --> 00:03:14,929 S1: how could this change the game completely in terms of 52 00:03:14,970 --> 00:03:18,250 S1: how Japan engages with China? Because we know that she 53 00:03:18,250 --> 00:03:22,130 S1: recently made comments suggesting that Japan could intervene in a 54 00:03:22,130 --> 00:03:26,649 S1: conflict over Taiwan. So that could be a military conflict 55 00:03:26,650 --> 00:03:30,370 S1: with China, potentially. And this of course, had massive ramifications. 56 00:03:30,370 --> 00:03:31,970 S1: So tell us about this, Peter. 57 00:03:33,450 --> 00:03:36,410 S2: Yes. So you've hit the nail on the head. This 58 00:03:36,410 --> 00:03:42,970 S2: is why Takeuchi's victory and in such fine style is 59 00:03:43,010 --> 00:03:48,370 S2: a major geopolitical moment. So first of all, just let's 60 00:03:48,370 --> 00:03:50,570 S2: deal with the Constitution question and then let's talk about 61 00:03:50,570 --> 00:03:55,770 S2: the Japan China relationship, because Takaichi is determined to stand 62 00:03:55,770 --> 00:03:59,530 S2: up to China. She doesn't see Japan as in any 63 00:03:59,530 --> 00:04:04,630 S2: way being inferior and sees Japan as a great power 64 00:04:04,630 --> 00:04:09,590 S2: that will confront China with US help and with Australia's 65 00:04:09,590 --> 00:04:14,990 S2: help as well. On the constitutional question, Japanese governments for 66 00:04:14,990 --> 00:04:19,150 S2: decades now have, rather than try to confront that very 67 00:04:19,150 --> 00:04:24,229 S2: thorny question of a constitutional revision, rather incrementally tried to 68 00:04:24,270 --> 00:04:27,950 S2: creep their way around it and succeeded to some extent 69 00:04:28,350 --> 00:04:33,350 S2: by gradually building up Japan's military forces and gradually incrementally 70 00:04:33,350 --> 00:04:37,669 S2: changing the laws that control how they can use those forces. 71 00:04:38,110 --> 00:04:42,710 S2: So Japan is spending about 2% of its GDP on 72 00:04:43,070 --> 00:04:46,670 S2: its military, the same as Australia. And it's built up 73 00:04:46,670 --> 00:04:51,070 S2: a substantial capability, including one of the world's biggest navies. 74 00:04:51,390 --> 00:04:55,470 S2: It's about the number 4 or 5 military spender in 75 00:04:55,470 --> 00:04:57,870 S2: the world, simply because the scale of its economy, it 76 00:04:57,870 --> 00:05:02,279 S2: remains the world's fourth biggest economy. So it's built these 77 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,760 S2: forces and incrementally liberalize the laws under which it can 78 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,760 S2: engage those powers. So whether Takaichi decides it's worth the 79 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,960 S2: trouble to try and actually change the Constitution and take 80 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,720 S2: that huge political risk, or whether to continue this incrementalism, 81 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,160 S2: we will have to wait and see. But it was 82 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,919 S2: on exactly this subject that she brought on a confrontation 83 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,560 S2: with China. She became the first Japanese prime minister, clearly 84 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:34,320 S2: to state that any contingency or Chinese move against Taiwan, 85 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:39,200 S2: she said, would be an existential issue facing Japan, would 86 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,120 S2: determine whether Japan could survive as a nation state. And therefore, 87 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,080 S2: she said, it would trigger the law that allows Japan 88 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:53,800 S2: to deploy its military forces in mutual self protection, self defense. 89 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,919 S2: So this is the beginning of the ruction with China. 90 00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:04,220 S2: She said it unapologetically XI Jinping, the Chinese Communist Party 91 00:06:04,660 --> 00:06:10,860 S2: reared up in in tremendous indignation, imposed trade sanctions, canceled 92 00:06:11,020 --> 00:06:16,180 S2: the Chinese tourist trade to Japan, banned Chinese rare earths 93 00:06:16,220 --> 00:06:21,700 S2: sales to Japan, and other sanctions as well. She didn't apologize. 94 00:06:21,700 --> 00:06:25,659 S2: She didn't take a step back. And this is now 95 00:06:25,700 --> 00:06:32,900 S2: where the situation stands. A newly elected, newly empowered, very determined, 96 00:06:32,940 --> 00:06:38,659 S2: very tough nationalist, leading Japan with tremendous popular support and 97 00:06:38,660 --> 00:06:44,940 S2: stating that she will confront China's expansionist inclinations. 98 00:06:45,180 --> 00:06:47,140 S1: Which I guess, you know, we could see come to 99 00:06:47,180 --> 00:06:49,740 S1: a head, I guess, later this year because China's going 100 00:06:49,740 --> 00:06:52,860 S1: to be hosting the APEC summit, uh, in November, and 101 00:06:52,900 --> 00:06:57,180 S1: I guess Takaichi and XI Jinping could meet then. But 102 00:06:57,220 --> 00:06:58,940 S1: I think we really are getting to the crux of 103 00:06:58,940 --> 00:07:01,740 S1: your piece, which is why, you know, her win really 104 00:07:01,740 --> 00:07:05,279 S1: marks what you've called a geopolitical earthquake. And I wanted 105 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,280 S1: to talk to you or ask you more about why 106 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,720 S1: she doesn't think Japan is a middle power. She thinks 107 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,480 S1: it's a great power. Can you sort of elaborate on that? 108 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,680 S2: Yes. She doesn't see Japan as having to be an 109 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:26,480 S2: endless price taker in world power and alliance relationships. She 110 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,280 S2: sees a Japan that can be a price maker. She 111 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:35,000 S2: sees a Japan that can return to its previous greatness 112 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,080 S2: as a force in the world. So Japan, of course, 113 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,120 S2: has a history of being a country that muddles along 114 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,480 S2: until some, uh, savage crisis is upon it. And then 115 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,240 S2: it has a history of being able to reorganize very 116 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,800 S2: quickly and reconstitute itself after World War Two, when it 117 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:58,640 S2: defeated occupied and its economy smashed to pieces with comprehensive, 118 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:04,530 S2: uh allied, mainly US bombing of all its uh, manufacturing infrastructure, 119 00:08:04,570 --> 00:08:09,650 S2: all its infrastructure, in short order. By the 1960s, Japan 120 00:08:09,650 --> 00:08:12,570 S2: was a major exporting powerhouse. And the rest we know 121 00:08:12,610 --> 00:08:16,770 S2: is history. By the 1980s, it was being acclaimed as 122 00:08:16,810 --> 00:08:22,090 S2: a great power. Uh, there were very, very excited books 123 00:08:22,090 --> 00:08:25,610 S2: being written by Americans predicting a war between Japan and 124 00:08:25,610 --> 00:08:30,489 S2: the US. There were serious proposals from Japanese politicians that 125 00:08:30,490 --> 00:08:34,250 S2: Japan should buy the state of California from the US, 126 00:08:34,250 --> 00:08:37,330 S2: because Japan needed more land. This was the sort of, um, 127 00:08:37,730 --> 00:08:39,970 S2: hubris and headiness that was going on in the 80s. 128 00:08:39,970 --> 00:08:44,010 S2: And then, of course, after its bubble economy punctured in 89, 129 00:08:44,290 --> 00:08:47,410 S2: it's really become an overlooked country and a forgotten land. 130 00:08:47,809 --> 00:08:50,330 S2: Of course, at the end of World War II, Japan, 131 00:08:50,370 --> 00:08:53,929 S2: like many countries, subcontracted its defense and national security to 132 00:08:53,929 --> 00:08:57,329 S2: the US. She wants to bring that back. She wants 133 00:08:57,330 --> 00:08:59,610 S2: to remain a powerful ally. She says, I want to 134 00:08:59,610 --> 00:09:04,830 S2: make Japan an indispensable ally. indispensable ally to the US. 135 00:09:05,150 --> 00:09:08,070 S2: But she wants Japan to be a great power in 136 00:09:08,070 --> 00:09:09,750 S2: its own right, as it has been in the past. 137 00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:12,950 S2: And she can see that happening again. Japan now is 138 00:09:12,950 --> 00:09:16,349 S2: located in the middle of the fighting zone. The Chinese 139 00:09:16,870 --> 00:09:21,110 S2: expansionist envelope. The threat envelope, if you like, has expanded 140 00:09:21,110 --> 00:09:23,990 S2: to put Japan squarely in the center. And it's been 141 00:09:23,990 --> 00:09:28,670 S2: under military pressure, continuous encroachments from China's navy and air 142 00:09:28,670 --> 00:09:32,150 S2: force now for years, to the point where it has 143 00:09:32,150 --> 00:09:35,750 S2: to scramble its air force an average of every one 144 00:09:35,790 --> 00:09:38,510 S2: and a half days to cut off an incursion of 145 00:09:38,510 --> 00:09:44,510 S2: Chinese Air Force jets. And now Japan is is the 146 00:09:44,510 --> 00:09:47,990 S2: front line. And that's how Takaichi sees it. And she 147 00:09:48,030 --> 00:09:51,470 S2: she sees it as being a firm line in the 148 00:09:51,470 --> 00:09:55,510 S2: alliance that will do everything it can to confront China. 149 00:09:57,710 --> 00:09:58,670 S1: After the break. 150 00:09:59,190 --> 00:10:03,480 S2: Trump has complimented her many times on her strength, her grace. 151 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,600 S2: They went together to a US aircraft carrier and stood 152 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,600 S2: on the deck, and Trump said positive things about her 153 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,080 S2: and Japan, and she started jumping and dancing around and 154 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:15,440 S2: pumping her fist in the air. 155 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,079 S1: Well, this is so interesting what you say about Takeuchi 156 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,199 S1: wanting to, you know, develop an even stronger alliance with 157 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,040 S1: the United States because this, of course, completely flies in 158 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,839 S1: the face of the message that we've been hearing. And 159 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,640 S1: it's been analyzed almost ad nauseam over the last few weeks, 160 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,920 S1: ever since Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney gave what is 161 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,320 S1: now a famous speech at the World Economic Forum at 162 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,360 S1: Davos last month. And this is, of course, when he 163 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,000 S1: said that middle powers should decouple from countries that seek 164 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,200 S1: to dominate them. He didn't mention the United States, but 165 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,920 S1: it was clearly who he was referring to. So Takaichi, 166 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,120 S1: she's known as the Trump whisperer. She's completely taking a 167 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,179 S1: different tack. Quite an opposite tack, I would suggest. So 168 00:11:04,220 --> 00:11:06,340 S1: what does this mean? I guess in terms of how 169 00:11:06,340 --> 00:11:08,500 S1: she might relate to Donald Trump? 170 00:11:09,860 --> 00:11:13,420 S2: Yeah, it's a different view altogether. And the two countries, 171 00:11:13,420 --> 00:11:17,140 S2: Japan and Canada, are under different pressures, of course, although 172 00:11:17,140 --> 00:11:20,940 S2: both of them are long standing and close US allies 173 00:11:20,940 --> 00:11:25,100 S2: that have relied heavily on the US. So Takeuchi also 174 00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:28,500 S2: is a conservative leader, a woman and somebody who's been 175 00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:32,460 S2: positive about Trump from the beginning. Trump has responded lovingly. 176 00:11:32,980 --> 00:11:37,300 S2: Trump has complimented her many times on her strength, her grace. 177 00:11:37,460 --> 00:11:39,420 S5: I want to just let you know any time you 178 00:11:39,420 --> 00:11:43,300 S5: have any question, any doubt, anything you want, any favors 179 00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:46,500 S5: you need, anything I can do to help Japan, we 180 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:50,100 S5: will be there. We are an ally at the strongest level. 181 00:11:50,980 --> 00:11:54,740 S2: He visited Japan after she was elected prime minister by 182 00:11:54,740 --> 00:11:59,140 S2: her party. But before the general election, they went together 183 00:11:59,140 --> 00:12:01,700 S2: to a US aircraft carrier and stood on the deck. 184 00:12:01,700 --> 00:12:05,400 S2: And Trump said positive things about her and. And Japan. 185 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:14,200 S6: This woman. That's right. This woman is a winner. So, 186 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,480 S6: you know, we've become very close friends all of a 187 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,720 S6: sudden because their stock market today and our stock market 188 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,880 S6: today hit an all time high. That means we're doing 189 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,160 S6: something right. 190 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,760 S2: And she started jumping and dancing around and pumping her 191 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,440 S2: fist in the air, uh, which was criticised uniformly by 192 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,640 S2: serious commentators in Japan who said this is not how 193 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,960 S2: Japanese prime minister should behave. She's more like a cheerleader 194 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,240 S2: for America than a, you know, a statesperson. She didn't care. Uh, 195 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,479 S2: she is that much of a pro-American leader, uh, and pro-Trump. 196 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:53,520 S2: And he is unabashedly pro her congratulated her on her 197 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,880 S2: big election win the other day, and she replied by saying, 198 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:01,080 S2: our alliance is limitless. So she sees the alliance as 199 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,130 S2: being as strong or stronger than it's ever been, and Japan, 200 00:13:04,130 --> 00:13:07,410 S2: as a bigger, more active participant in the alliance, very 201 00:13:07,410 --> 00:13:10,850 S2: different to the Carney approach of wanting to decouple, to 202 00:13:10,890 --> 00:13:14,290 S2: hedge against the US and to hedge against the US 203 00:13:14,290 --> 00:13:19,330 S2: by building stronger relationships with other powers. Witness his visit 204 00:13:19,330 --> 00:13:22,449 S2: to China just a couple of weeks ago. No Canadian 205 00:13:22,450 --> 00:13:24,810 S2: prime minister had been there for, what, 8 or 9 years? 206 00:13:25,170 --> 00:13:29,130 S2: Carney was very demonstratively saying to the US, look, we 207 00:13:29,130 --> 00:13:33,130 S2: have options. We can go to China as our partner 208 00:13:33,130 --> 00:13:35,530 S2: if you're not going to be any use to us. 209 00:13:35,809 --> 00:13:41,410 S2: Takeuchi doesn't have that that option. So that's an explanation 210 00:13:41,410 --> 00:13:45,130 S2: of of the fundamental standing and why those two US 211 00:13:45,130 --> 00:13:48,410 S2: allies or erstwhile US allies in the case of Canada, 212 00:13:48,850 --> 00:13:51,170 S2: are going in different directions. 213 00:13:51,570 --> 00:13:53,329 S1: Okay. Well, I really want to ask you what sort 214 00:13:53,330 --> 00:13:55,850 S1: of pressure I guess this might put on Prime Minister 215 00:13:55,850 --> 00:13:59,210 S1: Anthony Albanese, because we've been hearing some commentary within our 216 00:13:59,210 --> 00:14:01,850 S1: own country. I know that Alex Bristow from the Australian 217 00:14:01,850 --> 00:14:05,710 S1: Strategic Policy Institute, he just told The Australian Financial Review 218 00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:09,030 S1: that Seni Takashi's visit to Washington in March is a 219 00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:12,990 S1: vital opportunity for Japan, Australia and other US allies to 220 00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:16,030 S1: persuade Trump not to make a grand bargain with Chinese 221 00:14:16,030 --> 00:14:19,950 S1: President XI Jinping when he visits Beijing in April. And 222 00:14:19,950 --> 00:14:23,150 S1: you wrote that Mike green, the political analyst, told you that, 223 00:14:23,190 --> 00:14:27,790 S1: you know, Takashi might very well encourage Albanese to sort of, 224 00:14:27,830 --> 00:14:31,510 S1: I guess, encourage Trump to get things happening on the 225 00:14:31,510 --> 00:14:34,510 S1: trade front and sort of, I guess, strengthen that alliance. 226 00:14:34,510 --> 00:14:38,950 S1: So how receptive might Anthony Albanese be to encouragement from 227 00:14:38,950 --> 00:14:42,229 S1: Japan to perhaps strengthen the alliance with the United States 228 00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:43,350 S1: and Donald Trump? 229 00:14:44,510 --> 00:14:48,230 S2: Yes. Good point. Good question. Australia and the US are 230 00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:53,390 S2: not only going to have that bilateral relationship. And Takaichi, 231 00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:56,910 S2: of course, as you said, will be involved and wanting 232 00:14:56,910 --> 00:14:59,190 S2: to bring Australia in. And remember that in the last 233 00:14:59,190 --> 00:15:02,830 S2: couple of years, Australia's relationship with Japan has been intensified. 234 00:15:02,830 --> 00:15:07,810 S2: It's really It's now Australia's secondary ally. But also remember 235 00:15:07,810 --> 00:15:11,570 S2: that there is this forum called the quad, and she 236 00:15:11,570 --> 00:15:15,930 S2: is very enthusiastic about using the quad to advance Japan's case. 237 00:15:15,930 --> 00:15:20,410 S2: The quad is Japan, the US, Australia and India, and 238 00:15:20,410 --> 00:15:24,210 S2: she intends to use that as a forum for bringing 239 00:15:24,770 --> 00:15:27,850 S2: the US, as you say, to the priorities that suit 240 00:15:27,930 --> 00:15:31,490 S2: her and the other quad members. And they will include 241 00:15:31,850 --> 00:15:36,850 S2: being firmer with China, being more reasonable with trade and 242 00:15:36,850 --> 00:15:41,410 S2: tariffs and less aggressive with US allies with tariffs to 243 00:15:41,450 --> 00:15:44,930 S2: engage more with South East Asia and India. So it 244 00:15:44,930 --> 00:15:48,370 S2: will be like a little posse of allies that does 245 00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:51,570 S2: try to work on Trump. And I think we can 246 00:15:51,570 --> 00:15:54,770 S2: expect that. To your question, how receptive will Albanese be? 247 00:15:55,170 --> 00:15:57,010 S2: I think the answer is very. I think the answer 248 00:15:57,010 --> 00:15:57,610 S2: is very. 249 00:15:57,890 --> 00:16:00,250 S1: Okay. That's very interesting because you've just mentioned there that 250 00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:04,420 S1: Australia and Japan, their relationship as allies, has intensified uh, 251 00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:07,460 S1: over the last couple of years, but I've noticed with 252 00:16:07,460 --> 00:16:09,540 S1: great interest that in the last few months, it seems 253 00:16:09,540 --> 00:16:13,340 S1: like our government has also grown closer to the Canadian government. 254 00:16:13,580 --> 00:16:16,900 S1: In October, our two countries signed something of an agreement 255 00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:19,940 S1: or of an understanding on critical minerals to collaborate there 256 00:16:19,940 --> 00:16:23,300 S1: in some capacity. Albanese, of course, has invited Mark Carney 257 00:16:23,340 --> 00:16:25,940 S1: to speak at our parliament, which he'll be doing next month. 258 00:16:26,180 --> 00:16:29,500 S1: And in November, the president of the Canadian Border Services 259 00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:33,900 S1: Agency signed a customs mutual assistance agreement with our Commissioner 260 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:36,420 S1: of Border Force to sort of strengthen information sharing and 261 00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:40,140 S1: hopefully prevent smuggling and trade related crime. So I guess, 262 00:16:40,140 --> 00:16:42,740 S1: could this wedge Albanese, you know, if Canada's trying to 263 00:16:42,780 --> 00:16:46,420 S1: perhaps push us to decouple from the United States and 264 00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:50,020 S1: Japan is pushing us to strengthen our ties to America, 265 00:16:50,060 --> 00:16:53,460 S1: could this put Albanese in an uncomfortable position? 266 00:16:53,820 --> 00:16:57,540 S2: Yeah. Interesting angle. And very early in Carney's term, he 267 00:16:57,580 --> 00:17:03,660 S2: canceled a Canadian order for F-35 fighter jets from the US. 268 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:09,800 S2: And instead he turned to Australia, not for fighter jets, 269 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,840 S2: but he signed a deal with Albanese to buy Australia's 270 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,879 S2: Over the Horizon radar for something like $6 billion. It 271 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,959 S2: was a very clear sign we're not going to buy 272 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,040 S2: from you guys anymore. We'd prefer to buy from the 273 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,520 S2: Australians or anybody else as long as it's not the US. 274 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,680 S2: And that's a rational response for a Canadian leader. But 275 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,520 S2: I don't think he's going to be in a position 276 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:35,400 S2: to pressure Australia to do anything in particular except to 277 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,120 S2: intensify its relationship with Canada. He's there to extract maximum 278 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:45,199 S2: benefits for Canada in the case of Albanese. Albanese, while 279 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:50,399 S2: subtly wanting to diversify in any way he can from 280 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,040 S2: from the US, is not in a position to be 281 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,960 S2: so forthright or direct as to start cancelling defence or 282 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,000 S2: strategic arrangements with the US, even if it's only for 283 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,879 S2: the Aukus submarine and technology deal, which weds the two 284 00:18:05,020 --> 00:18:09,660 S2: countries together for decades in a major strategic compact. Also 285 00:18:09,660 --> 00:18:13,820 S2: note that Trump has been prepared to welcome the Australian 286 00:18:13,820 --> 00:18:17,580 S2: Alliance and hasn't yet insulted, hasn't yet insulted Australia. So 287 00:18:17,619 --> 00:18:21,020 S2: it's it's a different it's a different situation. And Australia will, 288 00:18:21,180 --> 00:18:24,820 S2: while trying to work its way around problems with the US, 289 00:18:25,340 --> 00:18:29,220 S2: also try to salvage whatever it can from the US alliance, 290 00:18:29,220 --> 00:18:32,660 S2: because we are an exposed country that cannot resist on 291 00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:37,540 S2: its own, uh, Chinese pressure and needs the US to 292 00:18:37,580 --> 00:18:40,100 S2: be standing in between US and China if we have 293 00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:43,420 S2: any hope of resisting Chinese coercion in the years ahead. 294 00:18:43,980 --> 00:18:46,300 S1: Thank you so much, Peter, for your time. 295 00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:48,100 S2: Always a pleasure, Samantha. 296 00:18:51,340 --> 00:18:55,139 S1: In other news, today, major infrastructure projects funded by the 297 00:18:55,140 --> 00:19:00,660 S1: federal and Victorian governments hosted drug trafficking, systemic corruption, bribery 298 00:19:00,660 --> 00:19:03,899 S1: and bikie gangs at an estimated cost to the taxpayer 299 00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:09,510 S1: of $15 billion, according to a landmark report into CFMEU corruption. 300 00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:14,550 S1: Internal Hamas documents show the militant group spied on and 301 00:19:14,550 --> 00:19:18,909 S1: interrogated World Vision staff and suspected whistleblowers as part of 302 00:19:18,910 --> 00:19:23,150 S1: a coordinated effort to obstruct an Israeli terrorism trial involving 303 00:19:23,150 --> 00:19:28,270 S1: the charity's former Gaza director and Amy Taylor, the lead 304 00:19:28,270 --> 00:19:31,590 S1: singer for Australian punk band amyl and the sniffers, is 305 00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:34,590 S1: suing a photographer in an American court over ownership of 306 00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:42,110 S1: images that were shot for Vogue. Today's episode was produced 307 00:19:42,109 --> 00:19:45,750 S1: by Kai Wong. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and 308 00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:49,470 S1: our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. 309 00:19:50,030 --> 00:19:52,830 S1: If you like our show, follow the Morning Edition and 310 00:19:52,830 --> 00:19:56,150 S1: leave a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks 311 00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:56,950 S1: for listening.