1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,640 S1: I'm Jacqueline Maley, and you're listening to Inside Politics from 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,280 S1: the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,000 S1: It has been quite a week in federal politics. We 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,239 S1: had Barnaby Joyce administering some tough love to his dog 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,439 S1: live on national television. We had Pauline Hanson make some 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,720 S1: incredibly controversial remarks about domestic violence. And meanwhile, down in Adelaide, 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,600 S1: the Prime Minister is at the Labor National Conference attempting 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,560 S1: to placate the grassroots of his party while also trying 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,360 S1: to keep himself electable. So much to discuss. Joining me 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,720 S1: this week from the labor conference in Adelaide, we have 11 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,600 S1: our chief political correspondent, Paul Circle, as usual, and federal 12 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,240 S1: political correspondent Natassia Chrysanthos. Welcome, guys. Hello. 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:47,920 S2: Hello from the city of churches. 14 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:49,839 S1: Yeah. How's the weather down in Adelaide? 15 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:51,960 S2: It's a bit gloomy. 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,520 S3: The lights are bright inside the Adelaide Convention Centre, which 17 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,520 S3: is the only bit that we're really experiencing. 18 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,530 S1: Right? It's not the most atmospheric venues, but you know, 19 00:01:01,570 --> 00:01:03,810 S1: it gets the job done. First up, I want to 20 00:01:03,810 --> 00:01:06,530 S1: talk about One Nation because they've really continued to dominate 21 00:01:06,530 --> 00:01:10,530 S1: headlines this week. And that itself is important because gaining 22 00:01:10,569 --> 00:01:13,170 S1: attention and outrage is very much a part of the 23 00:01:13,170 --> 00:01:16,130 S1: political strategy of the party, or so it seems. Paul, 24 00:01:16,130 --> 00:01:19,010 S1: most people by now will be familiar with Barnaby Joyce 25 00:01:19,010 --> 00:01:21,930 S1: shouting at his dog during an interview with Sarah Ferguson 26 00:01:21,970 --> 00:01:24,690 S1: on the ABC's 730 program, I think on Tuesday night. 27 00:01:24,730 --> 00:01:26,930 S1: What did you make of that little piece of political 28 00:01:26,930 --> 00:01:29,930 S1: theatre which has gone global, for better or for worse? 29 00:01:30,690 --> 00:01:33,410 S2: It's pretty extraordinary. It's in lots of the major newspapers, 30 00:01:33,410 --> 00:01:35,490 S2: lots of the big TV channels. I can't remember a 31 00:01:35,490 --> 00:01:37,449 S2: news story in Australia that's kicked off to that extent. 32 00:01:37,450 --> 00:01:40,970 S2: Probably some crazy crime. Um, yeah, I'm sure everyone has 33 00:01:40,970 --> 00:01:43,250 S2: seen this by now. This is Barnaby Joyce on the 34 00:01:43,250 --> 00:01:46,610 S2: 730 report yelling at his dog Stella. 35 00:01:47,209 --> 00:01:50,970 S4: Are you really comfortable with where she is taking you? 36 00:01:52,170 --> 00:01:57,010 S5: But I think. Sit down. Sorry. It's a dog. 37 00:01:57,330 --> 00:02:00,690 S2: It's the latest moment in what's been what's felt like 38 00:02:00,820 --> 00:02:03,260 S2: kind of a month of a media cycle that has 39 00:02:03,340 --> 00:02:07,660 S2: a similar theme, which is one nation being placed more 40 00:02:07,660 --> 00:02:13,260 S2: firmly under the spotlight, contentious claims being made on race relations. Um, 41 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:17,179 S2: if you're talking about the Senator Malcolm Roberts various conspiracy theories, 42 00:02:17,180 --> 00:02:20,460 S2: and on the Barnaby Joyce side, him kind of cleaning 43 00:02:20,460 --> 00:02:23,820 S2: up this mess and adding his own eccentricity into the 44 00:02:23,820 --> 00:02:26,940 S2: mix as well. Uh, and if you're one nation, you're 45 00:02:26,940 --> 00:02:29,620 S2: probably worried about the perception that they're a bit of 46 00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:32,220 S2: a ragged mess. But on the other hand, attention is 47 00:02:32,220 --> 00:02:36,100 S2: everything in politics. And, uh, their polling position is strong 48 00:02:36,100 --> 00:02:39,100 S2: despite a recent blip. And there's an argument that these 49 00:02:39,100 --> 00:02:42,900 S2: kinds of moments cement their status as the disrupter, the 50 00:02:42,940 --> 00:02:45,740 S2: kind of transgressive force in politics who are doing things 51 00:02:45,740 --> 00:02:48,540 S2: a little bit differently. People aren't paying that much attention 52 00:02:48,540 --> 00:02:50,660 S2: to politics mid cycle. It's really hard for the major 53 00:02:50,660 --> 00:02:53,540 S2: parties to grab attention, which is what this conference is about. 54 00:02:53,820 --> 00:02:57,180 S2: And so at least they're in the algorithm. That's how 55 00:02:57,180 --> 00:02:59,780 S2: they'd be thinking about it. But there's obviously downside. If 56 00:02:59,780 --> 00:03:00,859 S2: you look a bit too sloppy. 57 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,880 S1: You're there dominating the algorithm and as you say, they've 58 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:05,720 S1: gone global. I mean, I've seen it all over my 59 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,640 S1: Instagram feed. Even Pod Save America, which is an American 60 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,640 S1: podcast by, you know, some Democrat guys, they got into it. 61 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,840 S1: They brought up political guys. Yeah. What when you look 62 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,720 S1: at the broader interview, though, watch what Sarah Ferguson was 63 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,440 S1: pressing Barnaby Joyce on, and he gets increasingly tetchy as 64 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,040 S1: the interview goes on, to the extent where he tells 65 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,720 S1: Sarah Ferguson not to be rude because she's pressing him 66 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,720 S1: on a question. The question she's pressing him on is 67 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,200 S1: whether or not Pauline Hanson, who's making or, you know, 68 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,080 S1: making extremely sort of increasingly extreme remarks about immigrants, particularly 69 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,720 S1: Muslim immigrants. There was a whole Tommy Robinson sort of 70 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,680 S1: podcast interview that she did. Sarah Ferguson is asking Barnaby Joyce, 71 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,200 S1: is Pauline Hanson taking you further to the right and 72 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,520 S1: further to the extremes than you are comfortable with? And 73 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,000 S1: he actually didn't answer that question. Is there a schism 74 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:56,760 S1: forming there? 75 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,360 S2: Yeah, that was the question that when he got set, 76 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,690 S2: when the dog set him off. But as you say, 77 00:04:01,690 --> 00:04:04,610 S2: he was, he was kind of getting increasingly frustrated as 78 00:04:04,610 --> 00:04:07,290 S2: the interview went on. We reported the week before that 79 00:04:07,290 --> 00:04:11,530 S2: interview that he was privately grumbling about Pauline Hanson's trip 80 00:04:11,530 --> 00:04:14,050 S2: to Europe. He thought that Tommy Robinson, even though he 81 00:04:14,050 --> 00:04:17,330 S2: agrees with the thesis on political Islam, he thought that 82 00:04:17,330 --> 00:04:19,570 S2: Tommy Robinson was a character who shouldn't be dealt with. 83 00:04:19,610 --> 00:04:21,650 S2: He's a thug. He's a criminal. He's a racist. So 84 00:04:21,650 --> 00:04:24,210 S2: Joyce was privately grumbling to his associates and his family 85 00:04:24,210 --> 00:04:26,970 S2: back home, and he played this. He started playing this 86 00:04:26,970 --> 00:04:28,770 S2: role over the past couple of weeks that our colleague 87 00:04:28,770 --> 00:04:31,810 S2: Rob Harris has described as the explainer in chief. He's 88 00:04:31,810 --> 00:04:34,850 S2: been back in Australia doing every media outlet possible, not 89 00:04:34,850 --> 00:04:38,810 S2: knocking back any media requests, explaining all of these sometimes 90 00:04:38,810 --> 00:04:42,690 S2: outrageous claims from Pauline Hanson overseas. And there has been 91 00:04:42,730 --> 00:04:46,690 S2: a narrative building in Canberra that Barnaby Joyce is becoming 92 00:04:46,930 --> 00:04:50,010 S2: worried about the One Nation show and sensing that it's 93 00:04:50,010 --> 00:04:54,089 S2: not on track. And that interview could have indicated that 94 00:04:54,089 --> 00:04:56,250 S2: it all got a bit much for him. He was 95 00:04:56,290 --> 00:04:59,969 S2: being asked really tricky questions by a fantastic interviewer, Sarah Ferguson, 96 00:05:00,290 --> 00:05:03,539 S2: and he started off the interview tetchy to begin with. 97 00:05:03,580 --> 00:05:05,539 S2: He said, oh, he really welcoming me on the show. 98 00:05:05,580 --> 00:05:06,820 S2: Don't know if you're happy for me to be here 99 00:05:06,820 --> 00:05:09,460 S2: or something along those lines. And as the questions got tougher, 100 00:05:09,460 --> 00:05:14,260 S2: he became increasingly tetchy. Sarah Ferguson. I think she should 101 00:05:14,339 --> 00:05:18,700 S2: have suggested in that line when he punched back and 102 00:05:18,700 --> 00:05:20,860 S2: called her rude. It seemed to be implicit in her, 103 00:05:20,900 --> 00:05:24,260 S2: her comment that she thought the dog might be a fake, 104 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:25,980 S2: and that there was not really any dog there like. 105 00:05:27,020 --> 00:05:28,859 S1: I could hear the dog when I. Because some people 106 00:05:28,860 --> 00:05:30,620 S1: have suggested that the dog was fake and it was 107 00:05:30,620 --> 00:05:32,900 S1: just a sort of ruse to not answer the question. 108 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:34,860 S1: I could actually hear the dog when I was listening 109 00:05:34,900 --> 00:05:36,940 S1: to it, when I was listening back to it. Sarah 110 00:05:36,940 --> 00:05:38,940 S1: Ferguson has said that she could hear a dog too. 111 00:05:38,940 --> 00:05:42,220 S1: So we are taking on faith the existence of Stella, 112 00:05:42,260 --> 00:05:43,979 S1: the Border Collie Cross. I think she is maybe a 113 00:05:43,980 --> 00:05:44,419 S1: terrier as. 114 00:05:44,540 --> 00:05:46,099 S2: Well as a big narrative online that the dog was. 115 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:49,060 S1: I know going around. I know you can't. You can't. Yeah. 116 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:51,620 S1: It's very hard to get to the bottom of this matter. 117 00:05:51,620 --> 00:05:54,460 S1: We need we need proof of life of the dog anyway. 118 00:05:55,380 --> 00:05:59,500 S1: I mean, broadly, you know, Sarah Ferguson was pointing out that, 119 00:06:00,500 --> 00:06:05,350 S1: you know, Pauline Hanson had said on the spotlight program 120 00:06:05,350 --> 00:06:07,950 S1: when she was walking around, I think Lucien in the 121 00:06:07,950 --> 00:06:12,150 S1: UK with Tommy Robinson, a comment Muslims breed and the 122 00:06:12,150 --> 00:06:16,150 S1: taxpayer pays. She was asking whether he was comfortable with that, 123 00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:19,230 S1: with Hanson taking him into a place of racial discrimination, 124 00:06:19,230 --> 00:06:22,510 S1: which that pretty clearly sounds like. Is he sort of 125 00:06:22,550 --> 00:06:25,070 S1: going to continue to be happily cleaning up these kinds 126 00:06:25,070 --> 00:06:26,150 S1: of messes, do you think? 127 00:06:26,870 --> 00:06:29,950 S2: Well, that question that you just mentioned from Ferguson was 128 00:06:30,390 --> 00:06:33,830 S2: such a pertinent one, because there was a conversation at 129 00:06:33,830 --> 00:06:37,190 S2: the time Joyce joined One Nation around his positioning on 130 00:06:37,190 --> 00:06:40,029 S2: migration and race in his career. I think Phil Khouri 131 00:06:40,070 --> 00:06:42,750 S2: wrote a column saying that Joyce has never been a 132 00:06:42,790 --> 00:06:46,790 S2: race baiter. He's pretty. He has been quite liberal on 133 00:06:46,790 --> 00:06:49,990 S2: these issues for a conservative. People will recall he was 134 00:06:49,990 --> 00:06:54,430 S2: a big supporter of the Biloela refugee family, very impassioned supporter. 135 00:06:54,430 --> 00:06:58,589 S2: He's a. He's a Jesuit. Catholic. Jesuit. Catholics tend to 136 00:06:58,589 --> 00:07:02,570 S2: have pretty strong social justice values on these issues. And 137 00:07:02,570 --> 00:07:04,810 S2: so there's always been this question about whether Joyce would 138 00:07:04,810 --> 00:07:07,529 S2: go along with the race and migration element of the 139 00:07:07,529 --> 00:07:09,970 S2: One Nation agenda. He's a populist in all different kinds 140 00:07:09,970 --> 00:07:12,930 S2: of forms, but not traditionally on that issue. And so, yeah, 141 00:07:12,970 --> 00:07:15,090 S2: as we reported and as seemed to come to a 142 00:07:15,090 --> 00:07:17,450 S2: head in that interview, there is this sense that Joyce 143 00:07:17,450 --> 00:07:20,330 S2: is not quite in line with Hanson on racial issues, 144 00:07:20,330 --> 00:07:23,210 S2: although he has been saying both privately and publicly, that 145 00:07:23,210 --> 00:07:26,290 S2: the more he thinks about the warning signs from Britain, 146 00:07:26,290 --> 00:07:30,050 S2: about having too big a proportion of your country that 147 00:07:30,050 --> 00:07:33,170 S2: are of Muslim background, he's becoming increasingly worried that that 148 00:07:33,170 --> 00:07:35,410 S2: is the path Australia is on. So he would reject 149 00:07:35,410 --> 00:07:38,410 S2: this thesis. But that's been a question that people have asked. 150 00:07:38,770 --> 00:07:41,490 S1: The other thing that Pauline Hanson is reported as saying 151 00:07:41,490 --> 00:07:44,410 S1: this week was these very controversial comments about domestic violence. 152 00:07:44,410 --> 00:07:46,610 S1: She was asked about domestic violence, I think on a 153 00:07:46,650 --> 00:07:49,490 S1: on a Brisbane radio show. She was specifically asked us 154 00:07:49,530 --> 00:07:53,250 S1: what her message was to men who abuse their female partners. 155 00:07:53,490 --> 00:07:56,410 S1: And she said that while she had a lot. Well, 156 00:07:56,450 --> 00:07:59,010 S1: she said that she'd suffered domestic violence herself and that 157 00:07:59,010 --> 00:08:01,780 S1: she had left. She advised women to leave, but she 158 00:08:01,780 --> 00:08:03,860 S1: also said that it's a two way street. What did 159 00:08:03,860 --> 00:08:05,740 S1: you make of those comments and how do you think 160 00:08:05,740 --> 00:08:08,140 S1: they'll land with mainstream voters? 161 00:08:08,500 --> 00:08:12,660 S3: Yeah, I think look, she's kind of attempted to walk 162 00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:17,380 S3: them back or clarify what she meant. Um, but, you know, 163 00:08:17,420 --> 00:08:21,300 S3: our colleagues, Brittany Busch and, um, Rob Harris have got a, 164 00:08:21,460 --> 00:08:25,180 S3: another story today that go back to interview comments she 165 00:08:25,180 --> 00:08:28,260 S3: gave in a podcast last year, which kind of, you know, 166 00:08:28,300 --> 00:08:30,980 S3: insinuate that the child support system is a scam and 167 00:08:30,980 --> 00:08:35,660 S3: so forth. So she's obviously, uh, got form here, you know, 168 00:08:36,380 --> 00:08:39,060 S3: defending fathers in the family court, all of that kind 169 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:42,219 S3: of stuff. I think the more important question, which is 170 00:08:42,220 --> 00:08:44,860 S3: the one that you raise is how does this land? 171 00:08:45,140 --> 00:08:47,220 S3: And I think it's reflective of a bit of a 172 00:08:47,220 --> 00:08:49,420 S3: trend we're seeing with Hanson, similar to her comments on 173 00:08:49,420 --> 00:08:52,340 S3: paid parental leave. Um, similar to her comments about, you know, 174 00:08:52,380 --> 00:08:54,820 S3: workers being lazy and seeking to sack them. These are 175 00:08:54,860 --> 00:09:00,100 S3: these are kind of quite strong culture war topics, but 176 00:09:00,990 --> 00:09:04,230 S3: In areas that are slightly more niche, perhaps, and that 177 00:09:04,230 --> 00:09:08,510 S3: don't necessarily, I think, land with most Australians or it's 178 00:09:08,510 --> 00:09:10,870 S3: not what most Australians are thinking about. Most Australians I 179 00:09:10,870 --> 00:09:14,470 S3: don't think are talking about domestic violence in the context 180 00:09:14,470 --> 00:09:18,590 S3: of is domestic violence leave a scam? Our police resources 181 00:09:18,590 --> 00:09:23,870 S3: being unreasonably diverted to DV cases. And so I don't 182 00:09:23,870 --> 00:09:27,110 S3: know that this is the most favorable area for her 183 00:09:27,110 --> 00:09:29,270 S3: to be playing in politically. 184 00:09:29,630 --> 00:09:34,069 S1: Mhm. Yeah. Well, it's certainly a topic that men's rights 185 00:09:34,070 --> 00:09:36,750 S1: activists and certain elements of. Yeah. Very sort of far 186 00:09:36,790 --> 00:09:39,470 S1: right populism around the world would would you know, it's 187 00:09:39,470 --> 00:09:42,630 S1: from that it's very much from that playbook. It fortunately 188 00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:45,270 S1: hasn't been a feature of Australian politics in quite some time. 189 00:09:45,270 --> 00:09:47,829 S1: But we might see that come back. Paul, you had 190 00:09:47,830 --> 00:09:50,350 S1: a story this week about Alex Antic, who's a South 191 00:09:50,350 --> 00:09:53,430 S1: Australian Liberal senator who's something of a rebel. He's often 192 00:09:53,429 --> 00:09:56,429 S1: been very complimentary of One Nation in the past. And 193 00:09:56,429 --> 00:09:59,710 S1: you reported him as saying that One Nation Senator Malcolm 194 00:09:59,710 --> 00:10:03,959 S1: Roberts is, a clear thinker. Now Malcolm Roberts has promoted 195 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,080 S1: conspiracy theories. You know, you've written a lot about that. 196 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,240 S1: He's praised Vladimir Putin, among other things. You reported, you know, 197 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,440 S1: in the context of Alex Antic, that he's becoming a 198 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,360 S1: bit of a problem for the Liberals, particularly because he 199 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,679 S1: might be angling for a one nation Liberal Party coalition 200 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,679 S1: in the state of South Australia, where he's from. Well, 201 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,160 S1: what did Angus Taylor have to say about that proposition? 202 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,680 S2: Well, he was firmer than I thought he would be. 203 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,240 S2: Angus Taylor, when asked about our story a couple of 204 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,880 S2: days ago, he was in Brisbane for a for an 205 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,160 S2: economic forum and was asked about this prospect of the 206 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,240 S2: hard right. South Australian Senator Alex Antic shifting the South 207 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,760 S2: Australian division of the party in which he's got significant 208 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,480 S2: control to be closer to one nation, potentially forming some 209 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,400 S2: sort of state based alliance or coalition with the rump 210 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,880 S2: of MPs they still have in that state. And Angus 211 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,400 S2: Taylor was very firm, he said. Alex's view is irrelevant here. 212 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,439 S2: That will not be happening. It will not be tolerated 213 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,970 S2: and there'll be no conversation of any any similar sort. 214 00:11:03,210 --> 00:11:06,250 S2: And the reason for that is because Alex Antic has 215 00:11:06,250 --> 00:11:10,089 S2: been an irritant to a number of coalition leaders, but 216 00:11:10,090 --> 00:11:12,810 S2: he's been accepted because he's been seen as on the 217 00:11:12,809 --> 00:11:16,130 S2: fringe doing his thing in the online right ecosystem. He 218 00:11:16,130 --> 00:11:19,770 S2: does have a significant audience online. I wouldn't underplay the 219 00:11:19,770 --> 00:11:22,929 S2: extent to which, you know, that backlash to what you know, 220 00:11:22,970 --> 00:11:24,730 S2: people on the right view is the overreach of the 221 00:11:24,770 --> 00:11:26,930 S2: MeToo movement. And other things have led to the rise 222 00:11:26,929 --> 00:11:29,610 S2: of people like Alex Antic in certain parts of the internet, 223 00:11:29,650 --> 00:11:32,330 S2: the Pauline Hanson's trying to tap into. So people see 224 00:11:32,330 --> 00:11:34,610 S2: him as someone who's built up a fairly large following 225 00:11:34,650 --> 00:11:37,450 S2: and so deserves respect. But for the first time, he's 226 00:11:37,450 --> 00:11:41,970 S2: encroached into terrain which has caused higher ups to think, okay, 227 00:11:42,010 --> 00:11:45,290 S2: this is now potentially a serious problem because if he 228 00:11:45,290 --> 00:11:47,770 S2: seizes control of the South Australian division and he's running 229 00:11:47,770 --> 00:11:50,329 S2: for president of that division, which is very unorthodox for 230 00:11:50,330 --> 00:11:53,170 S2: a sitting senator, in fact, it's never happened before. If 231 00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:57,450 S2: he does take control and executes this idea of embracing 232 00:11:57,450 --> 00:12:00,650 S2: one nation that has national implications, because labor would point 233 00:12:00,750 --> 00:12:02,950 S2: to that and say, look, the Liberals actually do want 234 00:12:02,950 --> 00:12:04,429 S2: to do a deal with One Nation. That's not just 235 00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:07,189 S2: on preferences, but they want to merge the parties. And 236 00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:09,189 S2: so Angus Taylor has set a clear red line there 237 00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:10,110 S2: by putting his foot down. 238 00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:12,790 S1: Yeah. To us. How do you think Angus Taylor is 239 00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:16,150 S1: going generally in countering One Nation. And has he sharpened 240 00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:17,790 S1: up his attack recently? 241 00:12:18,030 --> 00:12:20,470 S3: I think he's sharpened up for sure. I think what 242 00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:22,430 S3: Paul just said is one example of that. I think 243 00:12:22,429 --> 00:12:24,630 S3: he gave this speech a couple of weeks ago as well, 244 00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:27,710 S3: which was really emphasizing, you know, the harm of One 245 00:12:27,710 --> 00:12:30,550 S3: Nation's policies. I think it took a while to get there. 246 00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:32,470 S3: He's kind of been treading lightly, and a lot of 247 00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:36,710 S3: stuff to do with One Nation over the last few months. Um, 248 00:12:36,950 --> 00:12:40,350 S3: so I think it's where he's landed seems better because 249 00:12:40,350 --> 00:12:42,910 S3: at least also he's just then able to quash some 250 00:12:42,910 --> 00:12:45,950 S3: of this speculation about the Liberals level of cooperation with 251 00:12:45,950 --> 00:12:49,070 S3: One Nation, for example, with things like preference deals, it's 252 00:12:49,070 --> 00:12:51,670 S3: easy to make those conversations go away and focus on 253 00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:53,110 S3: what you want to focus on when you have a 254 00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:55,230 S3: clear answer. So I think he's doing that a lot better. 255 00:12:55,390 --> 00:12:58,830 S3: I think the the dilemma for poor Angus Taylor, it's 256 00:12:58,830 --> 00:13:02,000 S3: not for lack of Trying. I think that is not 257 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,199 S3: cutting through. Like he's come out with some quite bold 258 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,600 S3: policies or rhetoric. He's he's immigration stuff earlier this year 259 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:16,160 S3: was very inflammatory. Um, his budget reply, um, you know, 260 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,400 S3: and his position on income tax indexing, tax brackets to 261 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,040 S3: end bracket creep, that's a big idea that, you know, 262 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,560 S3: that beckons a lot of questions about budget management and 263 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,560 S3: all of that stuff that he's not really being asked 264 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,440 S3: because he's just not cutting through. And I think it 265 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,120 S3: goes back to what we were saying earlier around the 266 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,200 S3: attention economy. When you've got Pauline Hanson on a pool 267 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,400 S3: deck with Gina Rinehart and Sicily and attending a fashion 268 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,959 S3: show and a Barnaby Joyce doing like a a pistol 269 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:52,680 S3: and boo dog, um, stunt man. Yeah, yeah. Like it. 270 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,720 S3: It's hard. It is a they're like, in some cases they're, they're, 271 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,520 S3: you know, say, for example, in the DV, I think 272 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,850 S3: this is a kind of news cycle that's emerged in 273 00:14:01,850 --> 00:14:04,410 S3: the last 24 hours that goes around genuine scrutiny stuff 274 00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:07,090 S3: like the dog stuff or the fashion show. They're more 275 00:14:07,130 --> 00:14:10,090 S3: gaffe related, but either way, they just, I think, take 276 00:14:10,090 --> 00:14:12,810 S3: people's attention, whether it's in the mainstream news or on 277 00:14:12,809 --> 00:14:17,010 S3: social media. Um, and one nation just becomes the kind 278 00:14:17,010 --> 00:14:19,170 S3: of default subject of interest, I think, for people who 279 00:14:19,170 --> 00:14:20,770 S3: are paying attention to politics. 280 00:14:21,530 --> 00:14:23,450 S1: I wonder in a, in a world where you have 281 00:14:23,450 --> 00:14:26,330 S1: one nation making, you know, various people from one nation, 282 00:14:26,330 --> 00:14:30,609 S1: notably Pauline Hanson, making these really brash, bold, strong, occasionally 283 00:14:30,610 --> 00:14:33,770 S1: extreme statements where someone who's a bit more moderate or 284 00:14:33,770 --> 00:14:36,050 S1: maybe even milquetoast is just not cutting through at all 285 00:14:36,090 --> 00:14:37,810 S1: because it's like, oh, what is it that what is 286 00:14:37,810 --> 00:14:38,970 S1: it that you're saying? Exactly. 287 00:14:39,010 --> 00:14:41,170 S3: But that's where, as these kind of examples, he's not 288 00:14:41,170 --> 00:14:42,970 S3: even trying to be milquetoast with them. Like he is 289 00:14:42,970 --> 00:14:46,170 S3: trying to be a bit bolder. Um, and it's still not, 290 00:14:46,170 --> 00:14:48,090 S3: not cutting through because he's not Pauline Hanson and he 291 00:14:48,090 --> 00:14:49,050 S3: never will be. Right. 292 00:14:49,650 --> 00:14:52,770 S1: Mhm. Okay. Let's take away to the Labour Party conference, 293 00:14:52,770 --> 00:14:55,050 S1: which is where you guys are at this very moment. 294 00:14:55,050 --> 00:14:57,890 S1: For listeners who haven't paid much attention. What is the 295 00:14:57,890 --> 00:15:02,260 S1: stated purpose of all of this theater? poll. Set the 296 00:15:02,260 --> 00:15:03,060 S1: scene for us. 297 00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:07,460 S2: Yeah. So the labour conferences occur once every term of government. 298 00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:10,060 S2: The Prime Minister, this this Prime Minister has brought them 299 00:15:10,060 --> 00:15:12,060 S2: forward in the term. So he's had it. This one's 300 00:15:12,060 --> 00:15:14,380 S2: about a year after the last election. Some Labour leaders 301 00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:16,420 S2: past have had them about a year before the next 302 00:15:16,420 --> 00:15:19,660 S2: election to to use them as kind of election launching pads. 303 00:15:19,660 --> 00:15:25,140 S2: But this Prime Minister being hyper focused on constantly electioneering 304 00:15:25,140 --> 00:15:27,780 S2: and thinking forward well in advance, he's known for his 305 00:15:27,820 --> 00:15:30,860 S2: kind of strategic thinking, has brought it earlier in the 306 00:15:30,860 --> 00:15:34,500 S2: term to create some, create some coherence about its agenda, 307 00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:36,700 S2: and to ensure that all the different arms of the 308 00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:40,540 S2: labour movement and the government are coming together at an 309 00:15:40,540 --> 00:15:42,739 S2: early point in the term to set up the framing 310 00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:46,900 S2: and strategic thinking for the next election. So effectively, what 311 00:15:46,940 --> 00:15:50,700 S2: a conference is in a in a in an organizational level, 312 00:15:50,820 --> 00:15:52,900 S2: is a coming together of all the delegates from across 313 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:55,620 S2: the country who are elected at branch level to the 314 00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:58,460 S2: same room over three days. About half of them are 315 00:15:58,460 --> 00:16:01,070 S2: from unions and unions have their own delegates, and a half, 316 00:16:01,070 --> 00:16:03,150 S2: about half are from the rank and file. So it's 317 00:16:03,150 --> 00:16:04,550 S2: a little bit less than that because there's a lot 318 00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:07,630 S2: of elected MPs as part of those that delegate block 319 00:16:07,630 --> 00:16:11,910 S2: as well, and they go through chapters of a hefty 320 00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:17,070 S2: party platform document that are on each policy area. People 321 00:16:17,070 --> 00:16:20,590 S2: will move amendments to the policy, um, uh, platforms to 322 00:16:20,590 --> 00:16:25,150 S2: try and inject new, uh, values or specific policies into 323 00:16:25,150 --> 00:16:27,870 S2: the document. When that document is agreed upon at the 324 00:16:27,870 --> 00:16:31,270 S2: end of the conference, it is formally, technically meant to 325 00:16:31,310 --> 00:16:36,430 S2: bind the cabinet to fulfill those obligations. But the the 326 00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:40,790 S2: get out clause is that it doesn't enforce discipline on 327 00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:44,470 S2: when those policies are enacted, enacted, or precisely how they 328 00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:45,030 S2: are enacted. 329 00:16:45,070 --> 00:16:45,390 S1: Yeah. 330 00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:48,310 S2: So the cabinet if if which does have significant control 331 00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:51,470 S2: over the conference can does still have ultimate and real 332 00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:53,510 S2: control over how the platform is executed. 333 00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:55,830 S1: Yeah. So they're sort of pointing the ship in the direction, 334 00:16:55,830 --> 00:16:59,790 S1: but they're not actually precisely plotting its destination or its 335 00:16:59,790 --> 00:17:03,010 S1: time of destination. It's often said that the big disputes 336 00:17:03,010 --> 00:17:06,250 S1: in Labour Party conference are settled well before the conference, 337 00:17:06,250 --> 00:17:08,570 S1: away from away from the prying eyes of the media 338 00:17:08,570 --> 00:17:10,850 S1: and the public, so that Labour can project a united 339 00:17:10,850 --> 00:17:13,330 S1: front from from the conference itself. Thus, what were the 340 00:17:13,330 --> 00:17:16,090 S1: major policy points that were up for grabs this year? 341 00:17:16,770 --> 00:17:19,970 S3: Um, I think the if we look at issues that 342 00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:22,290 S3: have been dividing the party, the party for a while, 343 00:17:22,290 --> 00:17:26,649 S3: we've got things like Israel, Gaza, um, Aukus. These are 344 00:17:26,930 --> 00:17:30,450 S3: kind of been long running debates in labour more recently. 345 00:17:30,490 --> 00:17:32,889 S3: I think a gas tax has become a big issue. 346 00:17:33,130 --> 00:17:37,570 S3: And the most recent is around AI and safeguards for 347 00:17:37,570 --> 00:17:40,970 S3: for workers, creatives and so forth. Um, as we move 348 00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:44,650 S3: towards an AI world. So with AI, for example, you 349 00:17:44,650 --> 00:17:48,170 S3: saw the government get ahead of that one, uh, with 350 00:17:48,170 --> 00:17:51,290 S3: Albanese's speech the other day. Um, so front running some 351 00:17:51,290 --> 00:17:53,770 S3: of these debates looking like they're on top of it, 352 00:17:53,810 --> 00:17:55,410 S3: a bit of a pressure valve for people to air 353 00:17:55,410 --> 00:17:58,689 S3: their views. Stop that one blowing up, you know, on 354 00:17:58,690 --> 00:18:00,820 S3: the floor of conference or becoming too to a similar 355 00:18:00,820 --> 00:18:03,220 S3: thing actually with gambling reform. I think there's a view 356 00:18:03,260 --> 00:18:05,659 S3: that's another thing that that there's been this real passionate 357 00:18:05,660 --> 00:18:09,580 S3: rank and file push for stronger action. The government came 358 00:18:09,580 --> 00:18:12,899 S3: through with a watered down package. But, you know, people 359 00:18:12,940 --> 00:18:15,780 S3: have said to me, for example, that by at least 360 00:18:15,780 --> 00:18:20,780 S3: introducing that package to Parliament last month, um, they stopped 361 00:18:20,780 --> 00:18:24,220 S3: that one blowing up on the floor of conference as well. 362 00:18:24,980 --> 00:18:27,580 S3: You know, we've got a few of these events at 363 00:18:27,580 --> 00:18:30,260 S3: the conference that happened on the sideline called fringe events 364 00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:32,020 S3: for some of these fringe debates. And there will be 365 00:18:32,020 --> 00:18:36,180 S3: debate over things like Aukus and AI and, um, you know, 366 00:18:36,220 --> 00:18:40,500 S3: Labor's position on war there. You've got protesters at the front, uh, 367 00:18:40,540 --> 00:18:42,620 S3: taking up the issue of gas tax in Gaza. So 368 00:18:42,619 --> 00:18:44,340 S3: all these things are kind of happening in the periphery. 369 00:18:44,340 --> 00:18:46,460 S3: But I think by and large, what we do see 370 00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:50,100 S3: now is a conference where a lot of this is 371 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:52,700 S3: kind of negotiated in advance. The wording is agreed to, 372 00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:54,980 S3: the debates are slightly stage managed. And also, I think 373 00:18:54,980 --> 00:18:57,740 S3: people are aware that they don't rock the boat too 374 00:18:57,740 --> 00:18:59,820 S3: much when it comes to a conference proper. 375 00:18:59,859 --> 00:19:00,710 S6: Mhm. Mhm. 376 00:19:01,030 --> 00:19:04,430 S1: Anthony Albanese gave the keynote speech for the conference on Thursday. 377 00:19:04,430 --> 00:19:06,270 S1: If that is the correct term, I'm sure it's not 378 00:19:06,270 --> 00:19:09,990 S1: the correct term. But what was his central political message? 379 00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:15,510 S3: It really gave me, um, election 2025 flashbacks, to be honest. Um, 380 00:19:15,550 --> 00:19:17,870 S3: he he even pulled out the green and gold Medicare 381 00:19:17,869 --> 00:19:20,869 S3: card again. So there was this, uh, it was doing 382 00:19:20,869 --> 00:19:23,990 S3: a couple of things. There was this, what would I 383 00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:26,350 S3: think sound familiar to voters from the last election, this 384 00:19:26,350 --> 00:19:30,429 S3: real focus on bread and butter, labor, staff, workers, healthcare, 385 00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:34,190 S3: you know, education. I think the two announcements they made 386 00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:36,910 S3: that labor made today were interesting. One is extending paid 387 00:19:37,230 --> 00:19:41,070 S3: payments to students in health, and the other was a 388 00:19:41,070 --> 00:19:45,750 S3: new workers court to settle underpayments and workplace disputes that 389 00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:49,310 S3: that hasn't existed since Howard abolished the last 1 in 1997. Um, 390 00:19:49,310 --> 00:19:51,709 S3: so there's this real like labor way. This is the 391 00:19:51,710 --> 00:19:54,310 S3: labor way of doing things. But I think what's different 392 00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:57,590 S3: since last year is the overarching context and the justification 393 00:19:57,590 --> 00:20:00,070 S3: for that. And again, it wasn't just about the coalition, 394 00:20:00,070 --> 00:20:04,040 S3: it was about this rising tide of populism. Um, this 395 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,439 S3: the fact that people are angry and disenchanted and the 396 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,040 S3: economy is not working for them. That's a new line 397 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,080 S3: for Labour in the last little while, this acknowledgement of grievance. 398 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,280 S3: But then this real kind of firm assertion that, well, 399 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,080 S3: we don't just respond to grievance by, you know, playing 400 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,720 S3: into it. We have to do material things. And those 401 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,840 S3: material things are explicitly acting on cost of living. Um, 402 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,320 S3: and so I think what, what was interesting about Albanese's 403 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,640 S3: speech was that it married so much of the stuff 404 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,679 S3: from last election that was really being pitched as core 405 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,159 S3: labour mission core labor values and also core labor policy 406 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,440 S3: in the in the things that this government does, which 407 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,199 S3: has been a lot of kind of money redistributed people 408 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,000 S3: via like under the banner of costing living relief. Um, 409 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,679 S3: but then connecting that to this kind of looming one 410 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,440 S3: nation threat. And I think we also heard Peter Malinauskas, 411 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,580 S3: the premier of South Australia, um, speak in a very 412 00:21:00,580 --> 00:21:03,980 S3: similar way about it is saying, you know, there are 413 00:21:03,980 --> 00:21:06,100 S3: two risks for labor here. One is the risk of 414 00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:10,699 S3: complacency that with this kind of decimated, fragmented conservative opposition, 415 00:21:11,060 --> 00:21:13,420 S3: we become too complacent. But the second risk is that 416 00:21:13,420 --> 00:21:18,820 S3: we react to populism and what that kind of beckons. 417 00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:21,420 S3: So this framing of, you know, there needs to be 418 00:21:21,420 --> 00:21:24,300 S3: a Labour way, which, as Albanese said, was kind of, 419 00:21:24,340 --> 00:21:28,860 S3: you know, diversity and progressive that had a diverse and 420 00:21:28,859 --> 00:21:32,179 S3: progressive kind of essence. What's that core thing? 421 00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:34,460 S1: Yeah, I think he seemed to be sort of saying, 422 00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:36,340 S1: we're not going to engage in culture wars. We're going 423 00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:38,780 S1: to answer the culture wars with actual sort of outcomes 424 00:21:38,780 --> 00:21:43,020 S1: and policy policy solutions that help people in their everyday lives. 425 00:21:43,420 --> 00:21:45,540 S1: That was the thrust of it. Whether or not that 426 00:21:45,540 --> 00:21:47,620 S1: will cut through and whether or not that'll be attractive 427 00:21:47,619 --> 00:21:50,340 S1: enough and convincing enough to voters. I guess we'll find 428 00:21:50,340 --> 00:21:52,859 S1: out at the next election. But as you say, it 429 00:21:52,859 --> 00:21:55,700 S1: did sound a lot like an election pitch. I think 430 00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:59,700 S1: we've lost Paul to the vagaries of the Labour Party conference. 431 00:21:59,740 --> 00:22:01,670 S1: Net internet. I can. 432 00:22:01,670 --> 00:22:03,310 S3: See him now, but I don't know what he's. 433 00:22:03,310 --> 00:22:07,470 S1: Doing. He's. Maybe he's ditched us. He's gone to get 434 00:22:07,470 --> 00:22:10,070 S1: a cup of Nescafé at the coffee. 435 00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:12,190 S3: Station, so maybe he'll get a head. 436 00:22:12,190 --> 00:22:15,270 S1: Start. Maybe he's. Maybe he's had a blood sugar crash. 437 00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:17,950 S1: And just some vague doubt task will let you go. 438 00:22:17,950 --> 00:22:20,430 S1: Thank you so much for joining us. That was very interesting. 439 00:22:20,430 --> 00:22:22,670 S1: And we'll get you back on soon, maybe to talk 440 00:22:22,670 --> 00:22:24,350 S1: about the outcomes from the conference. 441 00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:26,190 S3: Talk to you guys soon. Thanks so much. 442 00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:31,670 S1: You can read all of our political news on our website, 443 00:22:31,670 --> 00:22:37,710 S1: theage.com.au and smh.com.au. Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong 444 00:22:37,710 --> 00:22:41,750 S1: with help from Debbie Harrington. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, 445 00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:46,109 S1: and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. 446 00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:49,350 S1: Before you go, follow Inside Politics and leave a review 447 00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:52,790 S1: for us on Apple or Spotify. I'm Jacqueline Maley, thank 448 00:22:52,790 --> 00:22:53,590 S1: you for listening.