1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,200 S1: Hi, it's Samantha Selinger Morris here. And I'm the host 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,400 S1: of the Morning edition. We're bringing you the best episodes 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:11,920 S1: of 2025 before your Morning Edition team returns mid-January. Today 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,319 S1: we return to a good news story as we kick 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,920 S1: off a new year. The fame of Robert Irwin, the 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,919 S1: son of crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin, was supercharged recently when 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,919 S1: he won one of America's top reality television shows, dancing 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,760 S1: with the stars. Our culture editor at large, Michael Odato, 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,440 S1: delves into the Irwin family empire and how Robert Irwin's 10 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,120 S1: brand of nice won over America. And we hope that 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:43,159 S1: you have a safe and happy New Year. So, Michael, 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,280 S1: welcome to the Morning Edition. Or should I say good evening? 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,560 S1: Because of course it's evening where you are in LA. 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,640 S2: It is good evening and good morning. Wherever you are, 15 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:51,760 S2: wherever you're listening. 16 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,800 S1: All the things. Okay, let's get into it. Can you 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,080 S1: tell us a bit about Robert Irwin and why we're 18 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:58,240 S1: talking about him now? 19 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,930 S2: So Robert Irwin is the son of Steve Irwin? The 20 00:01:01,930 --> 00:01:03,730 S2: Australian TV personality. 21 00:01:03,770 --> 00:01:05,930 S3: G'day. I'm Steve Irwin. 22 00:01:06,130 --> 00:01:10,610 S2: Environmentalist, conservationist, The crocodile Hunter, as he is popularly known. 23 00:01:10,970 --> 00:01:15,530 S3: It doesn't get any tenser than this. Here's a huge 24 00:01:15,530 --> 00:01:18,770 S3: croc in a very confined space. 25 00:01:21,569 --> 00:01:23,770 S2: This is a boy that we've grown up watching as 26 00:01:23,770 --> 00:01:27,490 S2: a nation. We shared with him the loss of his father. 27 00:01:28,090 --> 00:01:31,610 S4: Queensland adventurer Steve Irwin, who won fans around the world 28 00:01:31,610 --> 00:01:34,690 S4: for his love of dangerous animals, has been killed in 29 00:01:34,690 --> 00:01:37,290 S4: a freak accident. The croc hunter was on the Great 30 00:01:37,290 --> 00:01:38,130 S4: Barrier Reef. 31 00:01:38,770 --> 00:01:43,450 S2: And I think that triggers collectively a great sense of 32 00:01:43,569 --> 00:01:46,330 S2: I think we all feel a measure of shared custody 33 00:01:46,530 --> 00:01:49,330 S2: of of Steve's kids. We've watched them grow up, so 34 00:01:49,330 --> 00:01:52,890 S2: they have a very specific emotional kind of resonance with 35 00:01:52,890 --> 00:01:55,730 S2: the audience. In the United States, the family is incredibly 36 00:01:55,730 --> 00:01:59,980 S2: well known. We're talking about him because he has featured 37 00:01:59,980 --> 00:02:03,220 S2: in this season of the American Dancing with the stars, 38 00:02:03,220 --> 00:02:06,340 S2: the 34th season. He's performed incredibly well. 39 00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:09,579 S5: Robert Irwin has got hearts racing again in his latest 40 00:02:09,580 --> 00:02:12,899 S5: dancing With the stars performance, earning his highest scores of 41 00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:15,220 S5: the season with a tantalising tango. 42 00:02:15,260 --> 00:02:18,339 S2: And around him there has been this kind of cyclone 43 00:02:18,380 --> 00:02:22,500 S2: of marketing momentum noise discussion. People are tuning in. 44 00:02:22,740 --> 00:02:26,460 S6: America has well and truly fallen in love with our 45 00:02:26,460 --> 00:02:30,340 S6: golden boy, Robert Irwin. This boy is in his element, 46 00:02:30,340 --> 00:02:33,260 S6: and I think the Americans have really seen that and 47 00:02:33,300 --> 00:02:36,820 S6: have just fallen in love with his positivity and just 48 00:02:36,860 --> 00:02:38,820 S6: absolute zest for life. 49 00:02:39,740 --> 00:02:44,419 S2: The show is reporting basically kind of audience numbers that 50 00:02:44,419 --> 00:02:46,740 S2: it hasn't seen certainly in more than a decade. I 51 00:02:46,740 --> 00:02:49,100 S2: would say probably about 12 or 13 years since it's 52 00:02:49,100 --> 00:02:52,660 S2: seen kind of this scale of not just audience capture, 53 00:02:52,660 --> 00:02:55,899 S2: but also kind of, you know, media stickiness, the fact 54 00:02:55,900 --> 00:02:59,030 S2: that it's kind of on every website, its leading Morning 55 00:02:59,070 --> 00:03:02,190 S2: news broadcast on Wednesday mornings here after the Tuesday Night 56 00:03:02,190 --> 00:03:05,070 S2: Live shows, so there's an incredible amount of energy around 57 00:03:05,070 --> 00:03:05,870 S2: it at the moment. 58 00:03:11,070 --> 00:03:14,109 S1: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. He's actually a fantastic dancer for 59 00:03:14,110 --> 00:03:16,830 S1: someone who, as I understand it, had no dancing experience 60 00:03:16,830 --> 00:03:19,110 S1: prior to this. We'll get into that. But first, can 61 00:03:19,110 --> 00:03:21,430 S1: you just give us an idea about the scale of 62 00:03:21,430 --> 00:03:24,390 S1: the Irwin family empire? Like what does it consist of? 63 00:03:24,669 --> 00:03:28,869 S2: So essentially the center of that empire is the Australia Zoo. 64 00:03:28,910 --> 00:03:33,030 S2: It's located in BYU in Queensland. It's basically 700 acres. 65 00:03:33,030 --> 00:03:35,830 S2: There's about 500 staff. There's about a million, I think 66 00:03:35,830 --> 00:03:38,110 S2: about a million people a year go through the turnstiles. 67 00:03:38,110 --> 00:03:40,670 S2: So it's a kind of it's a private zoo in, 68 00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:44,150 S2: you know, in, in the sense of being a straight business. 69 00:03:44,150 --> 00:03:47,190 S2: But the Irwin's are as a family, they have a 70 00:03:47,190 --> 00:03:50,150 S2: really big, um, they have a large amount of conservation 71 00:03:50,150 --> 00:03:52,390 S2: land holdings. So for example, they have a there's a 72 00:03:52,390 --> 00:03:55,670 S2: Steve Irwin reserve, which is in Cape York. There's a 73 00:03:55,670 --> 00:04:00,160 S2: conservation properties, um, elsewhere in Queensland. Essentially, I think all 74 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,400 S2: up they basically have about half a million acres of 75 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,080 S2: what amount to private national parks. They are kind of 76 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,440 S2: they are conserved wildlife areas. So they are environmentalists in 77 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,640 S2: an enterprise sense. They have, um, a really, really big 78 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,159 S2: kind of TV business. They have a deal with Warner 79 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,560 S2: Brothers in America for content for the Animal Planet show. 80 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,200 S2: They have big social profiles. Those profiles obviously get monetized 81 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,600 S2: with products. And they essentially out of all of that, 82 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,200 S2: they spin a licensing business, which is essentially, you know, 83 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,240 S2: the phrase is the crocodile Hunter and Australia Zoo. Steve Irwin, 84 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,320 S2: the Irwin family, there are products. There are, you know, 85 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,040 S2: everything from sort of, I guess, like Funko dolls to, 86 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,480 S2: you know, sort of t shirts or kind of, you know, merchandise. 87 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,120 S2: There's a big kind of business enterprise that sort of 88 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,560 S2: spins out of it all. But I think the centrepiece 89 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:54,880 S2: of that business is the zoo. 90 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,420 S1: Okay. In Australians, of course, have been familiar with Robert 91 00:04:58,460 --> 00:05:01,180 S1: virtually since the day he was born. We all remember 92 00:05:01,180 --> 00:05:04,180 S1: his father, Steve, sort of holding him in his arms. 93 00:05:04,180 --> 00:05:06,260 S1: I think he was wearing nappies, you know, while his 94 00:05:06,260 --> 00:05:10,060 S1: father was feeding crocodiles. But now Americans have fallen in 95 00:05:10,060 --> 00:05:12,500 S1: love with Robert. So what is it about him that 96 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:14,060 S1: they're sort of latching on to? 97 00:05:14,660 --> 00:05:17,140 S2: Certainly the heart of particularly for Australians, the heart of 98 00:05:17,180 --> 00:05:19,460 S2: that brand is about the fact that we grew up 99 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:23,780 S2: watching him. We all feel a tremendous emotional connection to 100 00:05:23,820 --> 00:05:27,779 S2: his loss and to kind of the family's triumph against 101 00:05:27,779 --> 00:05:30,420 S2: that loss in lots of ways to Americans. He sort 102 00:05:30,460 --> 00:05:33,620 S2: of springs out of that story, the Steve Irwin story. 103 00:05:33,620 --> 00:05:35,900 S2: And when Steve Irwin died, it was a gigantic news 104 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:39,539 S2: event here. I think what's so powerful about what's happening 105 00:05:39,540 --> 00:05:44,020 S2: in 2025 is that Robert Irwin kind of lands in 106 00:05:44,060 --> 00:05:48,020 S2: this moment as a really, really upbeat story and an 107 00:05:48,020 --> 00:05:52,580 S2: incredibly downbeat news cycle. Everything we have, there's 100 channels 108 00:05:52,580 --> 00:05:55,740 S2: of misery available to you. Pick a news channel anywhere 109 00:05:55,740 --> 00:05:58,470 S2: and you'll be really unhappy, just kind of trying to 110 00:05:58,470 --> 00:06:01,270 S2: consume it all. And what Robert Irwin is, he's a 111 00:06:01,270 --> 00:06:03,710 S2: feel good story. And him personally, I know that's a 112 00:06:03,710 --> 00:06:06,230 S2: really hard thing to do. I don't know him. I've 113 00:06:06,230 --> 00:06:09,630 S2: met him peripherally. I'm very good friends with Julia Morris, 114 00:06:09,630 --> 00:06:13,190 S2: who is his co-host on I'm a celebrity. He's a 115 00:06:13,190 --> 00:06:15,990 S2: nice guy. Nobody on Earth seems to have a bad 116 00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:18,950 S2: word to say. Everyone who knows him says 100% of 117 00:06:18,950 --> 00:06:21,910 S2: what you see on the camera is 100% of him. 118 00:06:21,910 --> 00:06:25,070 S2: So there's no artifice, there's no pretense, there's nothing. There's 119 00:06:25,070 --> 00:06:28,230 S2: no false kind of motive in him. He's just a 120 00:06:28,230 --> 00:06:31,910 S2: really wonderfully genuine young man doing incredibly well. And there's 121 00:06:31,950 --> 00:06:34,510 S2: there's also that thing I think that, you know, success 122 00:06:34,670 --> 00:06:38,150 S2: smells really good. We're all drawn to the smell of it. 123 00:06:38,150 --> 00:06:40,510 S2: The fact that he's not just a really lovely guy, 124 00:06:40,550 --> 00:06:44,229 S2: but he's scoring perfect 30 because in Dancing With the stars, 125 00:06:44,270 --> 00:06:47,909 S2: three judges each have paddles to score. You know, up 126 00:06:47,910 --> 00:06:51,150 S2: to ten points for performance. And when you get three tens, 127 00:06:51,190 --> 00:06:53,030 S2: that's all you can get. That's the perfect score for 128 00:06:53,029 --> 00:06:57,320 S2: Dancing With the stars. And he's scoring 30s. So this 129 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,400 S2: boy has kind of conquered the game. He's conquered the dance, 130 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,960 S2: he's conquered the audience. I just feel like we're kind 131 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,159 S2: of we're kind of all there emotionally. 132 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,120 S1: And do you think that Dancing With the Stars is, 133 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,080 S1: I don't know, perhaps a perfect vehicle to sort of channel, 134 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,920 S1: I guess, his authenticity or this story, even about his 135 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,920 S1: loss and how he has sort of lived through that, 136 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,640 S1: because you wrote really movingly about a moment on Dancing 137 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,680 S1: with the stars with his mom, Terry, that probably would 138 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,120 S1: have won even cynics over. So perhaps tell us about 139 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:27,800 S1: that moment. 140 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,240 S2: So essentially, they were there's a week in the competition 141 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,160 S2: they call dedication week, where all the choices are made 142 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,320 S2: and kind of dedicated to an idea or to someone 143 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,760 S2: or to something. He dedicated the performance to his mother. 144 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:45,480 S7: Dancing contemporary with his partner, Witney Carson. It's Robert Irwin. 145 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,320 S2: They performed a contemporary dance. It was all very beautiful. 146 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,320 S2: It had lots of shadow. And there's, of course, this 147 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,200 S2: incredibly beautiful moment at the end where he sort of 148 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,250 S2: spins Witney, his dance partner, into the shadow, and as 149 00:07:57,250 --> 00:08:01,010 S2: she spins out of the shadow, the camera's traveling around 150 00:08:01,010 --> 00:08:05,170 S2: him and they've they've done this incredible camera switcheroo, basically 151 00:08:05,210 --> 00:08:08,170 S2: to put Terri Irwin, his mother, into the dance. He 152 00:08:08,410 --> 00:08:11,170 S2: obviously just can't even deal with it. And it sort 153 00:08:11,170 --> 00:08:14,170 S2: of breaks down in tears in that moment. So there's 154 00:08:14,410 --> 00:08:16,610 S2: there's a huge amount of human emotion there. 155 00:08:16,970 --> 00:08:19,450 S8: This dance is for my mum. It's for all of 156 00:08:19,450 --> 00:08:22,170 S8: the mums out there who don't get the recognition they deserve. 157 00:08:22,930 --> 00:08:26,570 S8: This is for the single parents who work so hard 158 00:08:26,570 --> 00:08:28,370 S8: every day to put one foot in front of the other. 159 00:08:28,410 --> 00:08:32,730 S8: It's for anyone who's lost. Someone who feels lost. Keep going. 160 00:08:33,250 --> 00:08:35,130 S2: There's two key things I think going on. One of 161 00:08:35,130 --> 00:08:39,210 S2: them is it's obviously very deliberate. It's a very specific act. 162 00:08:39,210 --> 00:08:42,410 S2: That moment is scripted and produced and everyone in it 163 00:08:42,410 --> 00:08:46,810 S2: is a participant. So even Robert and Terri themselves know 164 00:08:46,850 --> 00:08:50,610 S2: they're kind of emotionally putting their emotions as a product 165 00:08:50,610 --> 00:08:54,250 S2: into a moment and knowing that television will gobble that 166 00:08:54,250 --> 00:08:58,540 S2: up in a really crazy personal way at the same time, 167 00:08:58,580 --> 00:09:00,780 S2: because I think I'm a great believer in life, that 168 00:09:01,140 --> 00:09:03,219 S2: when people are struggling to find answers, the answer is 169 00:09:03,220 --> 00:09:06,420 S2: often all things can simultaneously be true at the same time. 170 00:09:06,420 --> 00:09:09,980 S2: It's an incredibly genuine moment. There's no false motive. It 171 00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:12,460 S2: really is him dedicating the song to his mother. It 172 00:09:12,460 --> 00:09:16,100 S2: really is her willing to kind of share a moment 173 00:09:16,100 --> 00:09:19,020 S2: with him on that show. His sister won the show 174 00:09:19,059 --> 00:09:22,660 S2: ten years ago, so the family has a bit of weird, emotional, 175 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:25,180 S2: kind of, you know, skin in the game as well, 176 00:09:25,179 --> 00:09:29,939 S2: collectively and the moments incredibly beautiful. It's really hard not 177 00:09:29,940 --> 00:09:31,579 S2: to be affected by it. 178 00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:36,140 S8: And I'm so grateful. I never thought that this would 179 00:09:36,140 --> 00:09:38,459 S8: be the place, that this would be the avenue that 180 00:09:38,460 --> 00:09:45,100 S8: I finally get to fully express my gratitude. To the 181 00:09:45,140 --> 00:09:47,460 S8: to the person who shaped me into who I am today. 182 00:09:47,460 --> 00:09:49,820 S8: And I'm so grateful for that. Thank you. 183 00:09:50,980 --> 00:09:53,620 S2: The inescapable truth of Robert Owen is that he is 184 00:09:53,620 --> 00:09:56,510 S2: a boy, that we as a nation. We grieved with 185 00:09:56,510 --> 00:09:59,150 S2: him when he lost his father, and we've all kept 186 00:09:59,510 --> 00:10:06,070 S2: a national maternalistic paternalistic eye on him ever since. Basically 187 00:10:06,270 --> 00:10:09,270 S2: just checking that he's okay and wanting the best for him. 188 00:10:09,270 --> 00:10:12,189 S2: Because as a young man and as a family, they 189 00:10:12,230 --> 00:10:15,910 S2: suffered such incredible public loss that it's hard not to 190 00:10:15,910 --> 00:10:19,189 S2: be drawn into the the real power of that. 191 00:10:19,510 --> 00:10:21,870 S1: Perhaps that's why I'm going to quote from your story here. 192 00:10:21,870 --> 00:10:25,110 S1: You wrote Even Love Island hardened TV critics were left 193 00:10:25,110 --> 00:10:29,550 S1: sobbing and clutching their Kleenex boxes. Is that you, Michael Adato? 194 00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:33,150 S2: It was me, I was it's really it's such an 195 00:10:33,150 --> 00:10:35,670 S2: emotional moment. I mean, I lost my mother in 2019, 196 00:10:35,670 --> 00:10:38,190 S2: and I think that I don't think you need to 197 00:10:38,190 --> 00:10:41,590 S2: have experienced losing your mother to understand that moment, but 198 00:10:41,830 --> 00:10:45,030 S2: it certainly helps. It gives. There's a I think for 199 00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:48,150 S2: me and for anyone who has felt very personal loss, 200 00:10:48,190 --> 00:10:51,070 S2: there's an easy window to step through in that moment 201 00:10:51,230 --> 00:10:54,560 S2: to understand the power of it. Because here's the thing. 202 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,719 S2: You know, Steve Irwin died at a point in the 203 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,600 S2: lives of those children. Terri Irwin was a single mum. 204 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,160 S2: Those kids were really raised by her, and they were 205 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,160 S2: raised into the memory of their father, and they were 206 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,360 S2: raised in an environment that was dedicated to their father. 207 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,840 S2: But she you know, it's I don't know how anybody 208 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,080 S2: could fail to give her the extraordinary credit of not 209 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:22,199 S2: just building a business around them and around his legacy. 210 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,440 S2: It's a story of her hardship and all the sacrifices 211 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,200 S2: she made as a mother to make sure the kids 212 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,079 S2: were okay. And it's a story of, you know, the 213 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,400 S2: kids in this wild and very beautiful dedication they have 214 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:34,280 S2: to their dad. 215 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:37,760 S9: We'll be right back. 216 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,440 S1: Can you track Robert Irwin's rise for us? Like, where 217 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,800 S1: did it start? Was it the bonds add? Because I 218 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,300 S1: know that many listeners, I imagine they might be like 219 00:11:53,300 --> 00:11:55,700 S1: myself that you know. Of course. Yeah. For a long time, 220 00:11:55,740 --> 00:11:58,340 S1: you know, we had this fixed idea of Robert as 221 00:11:58,340 --> 00:12:02,380 S1: a toddler, you know, hanging out with his dad, and then, boom, 222 00:12:02,380 --> 00:12:04,300 S1: there he is with his six pack. Like, I want 223 00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:05,939 S1: to know whose idea that that was. 224 00:12:06,420 --> 00:12:09,140 S2: I mean, look, I think obviously he was, um, always 225 00:12:09,140 --> 00:12:11,780 S2: well known in the sense that the family was famous. 226 00:12:12,020 --> 00:12:15,100 S2: There probably are some sort of headline touchstones over the years. 227 00:12:15,140 --> 00:12:19,540 S2: There's no question the bonds campaign, particularly for America, not 228 00:12:19,540 --> 00:12:21,660 S2: only kind of put him into the middle of the 229 00:12:21,660 --> 00:12:24,699 S2: media ecosystem here, but also taps into the fact that 230 00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:27,500 S2: he's a very good looking young man. And, you know, 231 00:12:27,540 --> 00:12:31,740 S2: the media ecosystem everywhere really loves very good looking young 232 00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:34,380 S2: people of all ages. You know, of all ages and 233 00:12:34,420 --> 00:12:37,780 S2: kind of designs. So he he steps into that frame, 234 00:12:37,900 --> 00:12:41,979 S2: you know, with kind of matinee idol, you know, movie looks. 235 00:12:41,980 --> 00:12:45,179 S2: And the camera loves him. The media love him. He 236 00:12:45,179 --> 00:12:48,300 S2: has all of that natural charm. And I think that's 237 00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:50,740 S2: where it all starts to ignite. The most interesting thing 238 00:12:50,740 --> 00:12:52,670 S2: to me, not just the bonds campaign, but I think 239 00:12:52,670 --> 00:12:54,990 S2: also whoever had the idea to put him on Dancing 240 00:12:54,990 --> 00:12:57,630 S2: With the Stars, obviously, I think because it was the 10th, 241 00:12:57,630 --> 00:13:00,670 S2: I think it's the 10th anniversary of Bindi's win. Someone 242 00:13:00,670 --> 00:13:03,589 S2: at the American ABC network has obviously consciously thought, oh, 243 00:13:03,630 --> 00:13:06,550 S2: here's the connection. You know, ten years later, let's approach 244 00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:09,830 S2: her brother. He's obviously everywhere right now in this, this 245 00:13:09,870 --> 00:13:13,510 S2: kind of American media campaign. Maybe, you know, maybe he'll 246 00:13:13,510 --> 00:13:16,030 S2: be into this. And I think also there's a very 247 00:13:16,030 --> 00:13:21,230 S2: clear focus from the enterprise itself, which is Australia Zoo 248 00:13:21,230 --> 00:13:24,510 S2: and the marketing machinery that goes around it to to 249 00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:26,590 S2: market him into America. He was just on the cover 250 00:13:26,590 --> 00:13:29,309 S2: of the New York Times Magazine. He's in people magazine 251 00:13:29,309 --> 00:13:33,710 S2: a lot. There's he has a strong American media presence. Um, 252 00:13:33,870 --> 00:13:36,829 S2: and obviously the connection through the Earthshot Prize to Prince William. 253 00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:39,310 S2: There's a, you know, there's a couple of things. There's 254 00:13:39,309 --> 00:13:41,670 S2: a couple of kind of touchstones here that have basically 255 00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:45,030 S2: served to amplify his brand at a time where I 256 00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:48,150 S2: think we will now see dancing with the stars amplify 257 00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:51,640 S2: the brand, um, at a to a much, much more 258 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:52,440 S2: heightened level. 259 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,960 S1: And do you think his rise, you know, from toddler 260 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,240 S1: sort of obsessed with crocodiles to to budding heartthrob like 261 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,959 S1: was this deliberate, I guess, you know, or even inevitable 262 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,280 S1: a next step for him? Because we know that he's 263 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,680 S1: literally been in the spotlight since the day he was born. 264 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,160 S1: I was just reading today that a camera crew filmed 265 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,280 S1: him as a newborn in the delivery room. 266 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,320 S2: Yeah, I mean, look, it's an interesting question. I mean, 267 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,480 S2: obviously all of this is deliberate. No one, you know, 268 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,480 S2: does a bonds commercial accidentally. No one falls out a 269 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,520 S2: window and lands on dancing with the stars. All of 270 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,080 S2: this is by design, so I think it would be, 271 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,000 S2: you know, it would be false to suggest that it's 272 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,760 S2: the sort of that it's all happened unexpectedly. Of course, 273 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,920 S2: this is all. This is all incredibly by design. Um, 274 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,000 S2: the key thing, and this is a bit random, but 275 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,760 S2: I happen to be very good friends with Lorna Luft, 276 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,800 S2: who is Judy Garland's daughter, um, in LA. And one 277 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,040 S2: thing that I remember talking to her about was when 278 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,200 S2: I asked her about growing up in that family and 279 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,600 S2: in that kind of spotlight, she sort of was like 280 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,730 S2: her answer was always. It was all very normal to me, 281 00:14:52,770 --> 00:14:55,530 S2: like I didn't know any different. So I think the 282 00:14:55,530 --> 00:14:58,610 S2: key thing that question of did, let's say, did Robert 283 00:14:58,610 --> 00:15:01,450 S2: Irwin have a normal childhood? The answer is what's a 284 00:15:01,450 --> 00:15:04,610 S2: normal childhood? I mean, a normal childhood is whatever you 285 00:15:04,650 --> 00:15:08,170 S2: have with your mother, your father and your siblings. And 286 00:15:08,170 --> 00:15:10,170 S2: in that sense, I think Robert Irwin had a really 287 00:15:10,170 --> 00:15:13,170 S2: normal childhood. I just think he had it in the 288 00:15:13,210 --> 00:15:16,930 S2: shadow of his father's loss. But in the family zoo, 289 00:15:16,970 --> 00:15:20,290 S2: with his mother and his sister surrounded by wildlife. And 290 00:15:20,290 --> 00:15:23,850 S2: that to a boy in that situation is a really 291 00:15:23,850 --> 00:15:24,930 S2: normal childhood. 292 00:15:25,490 --> 00:15:27,770 S1: Okay, but let's get into why Robert and Bindi spend 293 00:15:27,770 --> 00:15:31,290 S1: so much time courting America. I mean, is it just 294 00:15:31,570 --> 00:15:33,730 S1: is it just to sort of amplify the business? Is 295 00:15:33,730 --> 00:15:34,490 S1: it something else? 296 00:15:34,530 --> 00:15:36,970 S2: Well, it is, of course it is. I mean, it's 297 00:15:37,010 --> 00:15:39,730 S2: America is the heart of the business. It's the heart 298 00:15:39,730 --> 00:15:42,370 S2: of the television business. It's the heart of the global 299 00:15:42,370 --> 00:15:46,370 S2: pop culture ecosystem. It's where the money is big. And 300 00:15:46,370 --> 00:15:49,490 S2: also to be fair as well, if again, if we 301 00:15:49,490 --> 00:15:52,420 S2: go back to what the sense of the Irwins and 302 00:15:52,420 --> 00:15:55,460 S2: Steve Irwin was, you know, 25 or 30 years ago 303 00:15:55,460 --> 00:15:59,940 S2: in Australia, they were almost an American thing. Anyway, my 304 00:15:59,940 --> 00:16:01,860 S2: sense as a TV, I was a very young TV 305 00:16:01,860 --> 00:16:03,860 S2: writer at the time. I was in my 20s. I 306 00:16:03,860 --> 00:16:06,860 S2: was working for the Daily Telegraph. Um, I wrote about 307 00:16:06,860 --> 00:16:08,900 S2: Steve Irwin. I met him a bunch of times. He 308 00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:11,860 S2: was the world's nicest man. Terry was very lovely. I 309 00:16:11,860 --> 00:16:16,260 S2: think what my sense of it then was in America, they, uh, 310 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:19,700 S2: had this big TV life. They were on Animal Planet. 311 00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:22,020 S2: There was sort of. There was this. They were documentaries 312 00:16:22,020 --> 00:16:24,660 S2: and TV shows and all of this stuff. Australia never 313 00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:27,300 S2: had it at that volume. At that time, we didn't 314 00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:29,980 S2: even have pay television. It was still in its infancy 315 00:16:29,980 --> 00:16:33,420 S2: in the 1990s, the idea of cable TV. So what 316 00:16:33,420 --> 00:16:38,340 S2: we had was periodically channel ten would air one of 317 00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:41,420 S2: the documentaries as a special. So we might have only 318 00:16:41,420 --> 00:16:44,340 S2: had Steve Irwin on the TV, you know, on channel 319 00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:48,220 S2: ten in the 90s, 3 or 4 times a year. 320 00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:50,670 S2: That was it. He was still a well known kind 321 00:16:50,670 --> 00:16:53,550 S2: of media personality, but the TV imprint was very small. 322 00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:56,550 S2: The American TV imprint was gigantic from the beginning. So 323 00:16:56,590 --> 00:16:59,590 S2: to some extent, the reason I think they focus on 324 00:16:59,590 --> 00:17:02,670 S2: America is that's where the big business is. It's where 325 00:17:02,670 --> 00:17:04,429 S2: the big money is that there's a whole lot of things, 326 00:17:04,430 --> 00:17:08,310 S2: but it is also where their father found his biggest fame, 327 00:17:08,310 --> 00:17:11,629 S2: and it's where their name is kind of universally known. 328 00:17:11,630 --> 00:17:14,230 S2: And it's where, as an Australian in America, if I 329 00:17:14,270 --> 00:17:16,830 S2: meet Americans on the street and we talk about stuff 330 00:17:16,869 --> 00:17:19,629 S2: or they ask about Australia, they were often I remember 331 00:17:19,630 --> 00:17:22,670 S2: being asked what I was Steve Irwin really famous in Australia, 332 00:17:22,670 --> 00:17:24,950 S2: and I'd have to sort of explain going, well, he is, 333 00:17:24,950 --> 00:17:26,710 S2: but probably not quite in the same way that you 334 00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:29,470 S2: guys go completely bananas for him. 335 00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:32,070 S1: It's very interesting. And of course, the mother, Terry, of course, 336 00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:35,190 S1: is American. But but about Australia, you know, Robert was 337 00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:38,429 S1: the face of a big Tourism Australia campaign before Dancing 338 00:17:38,430 --> 00:17:41,030 S1: With the Stars. And he was just this week plugging 339 00:17:41,070 --> 00:17:44,790 S1: Australia Zoo on his social media. So is there some 340 00:17:44,790 --> 00:17:46,870 S1: kind of net benefit for us, like is this going 341 00:17:46,910 --> 00:17:48,960 S1: to benefit the Australian economy somehow. 342 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,840 S2: Of course. Gigantically I think they're well, I mean, I 343 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,280 S2: think that they're connected. So it's almost like tourism generally 344 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,400 S2: and tourism specifically in the end. Um, lots of Americans 345 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,160 S2: come to Australia wanting to go to Australia Zoo. It's 346 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,760 S2: a as an entity. You know, growing up in Sydney, 347 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,040 S2: I grew up knowing the Taronga Zoo. It's the only 348 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,920 S2: zoo I kind of knew as a zoo. To Americans, 349 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,600 S2: Australia Zoo is a much bigger, more centrally understood place, 350 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,080 S2: and they often come to Australia wanting to go there, 351 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,680 S2: and they do in large numbers. So um, and obviously because, 352 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,720 S2: you know, the air traffic from the United States to 353 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,960 S2: far north Queensland is not direct. There is a flow 354 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,840 S2: on benefit really for everybody, because essentially many of those 355 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,840 S2: tourists will come through the eastern capitals from America to 356 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,920 S2: get to the Australia Zoo. So there is a kind 357 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,080 S2: of collective benefit. There's a very specific benefit to the 358 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,200 S2: family's enterprise. And again, this is again, it's this stuff 359 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,120 S2: is very careful and deliberate. Absolutely. He knows what he's 360 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,210 S2: doing on his socials, and absolutely he understands how all 361 00:18:50,210 --> 00:18:53,250 S2: the touch points land to market the zoo and the 362 00:18:53,250 --> 00:18:56,810 S2: idea of coming there. But collectively, as a country, it's 363 00:18:56,810 --> 00:18:59,889 S2: a very positive brand to represent us. And I think 364 00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:03,450 S2: also there is a logical follow on where, you know, 365 00:19:03,490 --> 00:19:07,449 S2: those tourist dollars. In order to get to to that location, 366 00:19:07,690 --> 00:19:10,369 S2: you pretty much have to flow through, you know, the 367 00:19:10,369 --> 00:19:12,570 S2: eastern capital cities of Australia to get there. 368 00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:15,330 S1: Okay. And Michael, just to wrap up on that note 369 00:19:15,369 --> 00:19:20,209 S1: of positivity, your piece about Robert Irwin, it is resoundingly positive. 370 00:19:20,250 --> 00:19:22,689 S1: I mean, this is the vibe that surrounds him, right? Like, 371 00:19:22,690 --> 00:19:24,250 S1: I was doing a little bit of a deep dive 372 00:19:24,250 --> 00:19:26,129 S1: and I saw that the New York Times, the headline 373 00:19:26,130 --> 00:19:28,850 S1: on their feature from about a week ago was Robert 374 00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:31,970 S1: Irwin is actually that nice? I mean, that's that's just 375 00:19:31,970 --> 00:19:34,610 S1: what he is, right? But I this might be the 376 00:19:34,609 --> 00:19:37,250 S1: Australian tall poppy syndrome sort of peeking through. But I 377 00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:39,290 S1: just want to ask you, you know, is there a 378 00:19:39,290 --> 00:19:42,010 S1: chance the public might overdose on his sort of, like, 379 00:19:42,050 --> 00:19:47,070 S1: unrelenting positivity and upbeat ness? And this could just be 380 00:19:47,109 --> 00:19:50,150 S1: me projecting my feelings of inadequacy that perhaps I'm not 381 00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:52,350 S1: as nice as Robert Irwin is all the time. 382 00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:57,070 S2: So, look, the answer is, I don't know. I doubt it. 383 00:19:57,070 --> 00:19:59,510 S2: I feel like nice is nice, and nice is a 384 00:19:59,510 --> 00:20:02,230 S2: really easy brand to sell. I will give you one 385 00:20:02,230 --> 00:20:04,990 S2: controversial thought. I'm not a big believer in the tall 386 00:20:04,990 --> 00:20:08,710 S2: poppy syndrome because I think in order to fall prey 387 00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:12,149 S2: to it, you have to trigger it. And to my mind, 388 00:20:12,150 --> 00:20:16,310 S2: the tall poppy syndrome only ever really got thrown at 389 00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:21,389 S2: people who went overseas or went somewhere and somehow turned 390 00:20:21,390 --> 00:20:24,230 S2: their back. Kylie Minogue could argue there was a period 391 00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:26,150 S2: where people had a go at her, but it would 392 00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:28,990 S2: also happen to be a period where, you know what 393 00:20:28,990 --> 00:20:32,790 S2: felt like seconds after leaving Australia, she suddenly manifested a 394 00:20:32,830 --> 00:20:37,350 S2: kind of transglobal British accent. And I think when people 395 00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:41,510 S2: perceive any sense of falsehood in those moments, that's where 396 00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:45,070 S2: they react angrily. And that's where the patrol puppy syndrome 397 00:20:45,230 --> 00:20:48,320 S2: occurs in Robert Irwin's case. I think it's really hard 398 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,680 S2: for that to happen. Nice is nice and I don't 399 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,200 S2: know how you argue with nice, and I think that 400 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,159 S2: in a context where everything else is a real like 401 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:03,399 S2: the emotional kind of palette of the moment is frustration, depression, fear, anger, 402 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,240 S2: all these things are kind of being pushed out into 403 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,400 S2: the wider culture and we're consuming them. And it frustrates us. 404 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,399 S2: And I think, you know, there was a piece I 405 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,240 S2: wrote a couple of years ago about Christmas where essentially 406 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,280 S2: I'd articulated an idea to one of our editors who said, 407 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,399 S2: you need to capture that, which was we got to 408 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,480 S2: the end of the year, and there are just moments 409 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,640 S2: where you think it's just a relief that we got here, 410 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,520 S2: like we it was a success just getting here. And 411 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,480 S2: I think in contrast to that, when Robert Irwin comes 412 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,520 S2: into the room and he lights up the TV screen 413 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,959 S2: because he's lighting up the room and he dances up 414 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,080 S2: a storm and he gives you something to cheer for. 415 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,399 S2: And not only that, you have even the cynical idea 416 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,640 S2: that all of this is to make money for the 417 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:48,370 S2: Australia Zoo somehow through tourism and profile and celebrity. The 418 00:21:48,369 --> 00:21:51,370 S2: answer the kind of postscript to that becomes, that's true. 419 00:21:51,369 --> 00:21:53,250 S2: And do you know what they do with all that money? 420 00:21:53,450 --> 00:21:58,570 S2: They actually buy land and turn them into conserved wilderness 421 00:21:58,570 --> 00:22:03,050 S2: and conserved wilderness. Costs money to conserve and protect. And 422 00:22:03,050 --> 00:22:06,649 S2: it's not revenue generating. So there's a sort of the story. 423 00:22:06,690 --> 00:22:08,730 S2: And in the Steve Irwin story, as much as the 424 00:22:08,730 --> 00:22:12,810 S2: Robert and Terri and Bindi Irwin story, there's an extraordinary 425 00:22:12,850 --> 00:22:16,250 S2: nobility at the heart of the commerce, which is yeah, 426 00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:18,449 S2: this is a business. And yeah, it makes money. But 427 00:22:18,450 --> 00:22:20,010 S2: look what they do with this money. And look what 428 00:22:20,010 --> 00:22:24,370 S2: this conservation foundation has done to preserve Australian wilderness. I 429 00:22:24,369 --> 00:22:26,370 S2: don't know how people argue with that. I don't see 430 00:22:26,369 --> 00:22:29,770 S2: any negatives for the brand. And I think for him 431 00:22:29,970 --> 00:22:33,450 S2: in America, the experience of dancing with the stars will 432 00:22:33,490 --> 00:22:38,490 S2: amplify that substantially and in ways that we're probably still 433 00:22:38,490 --> 00:22:39,250 S2: yet to see. 434 00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:42,650 S1: Well, Michael, thank you so much for your time. 435 00:22:43,210 --> 00:22:45,100 S2: My pleasure. Always a pleasure. 436 00:22:57,580 --> 00:23:00,900 S1: Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself 437 00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:05,140 S1: and Kai Wong. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Our 438 00:23:05,140 --> 00:23:08,500 S1: head of audio is Tom McKendrick. The Morning Edition is 439 00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:11,139 S1: a production of The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. 440 00:23:11,420 --> 00:23:14,180 S1: If you enjoy the show and want more of our journalism, 441 00:23:14,180 --> 00:23:17,500 S1: subscribe to our newspapers today. It's the best way to 442 00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:23,740 S1: support what we do. Search the Age or Smh.com.au. Subscribe 443 00:23:24,060 --> 00:23:27,820 S1: and sign up for our newsletter to receive a comprehensive 444 00:23:27,820 --> 00:23:31,540 S1: summary of the day's most important news, analysis and insights 445 00:23:31,540 --> 00:23:35,780 S1: in your inbox every day. Links are in the show. Notes. 446 00:23:36,340 --> 00:23:40,660 S1: I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. This is the morning edition. Thanks 447 00:23:40,660 --> 00:23:41,460 S1: for listening.