Speaker 1: It is twenty four minutes to one on three AW,
Speaker 1: on five double A at six after midnight, and on
Speaker 1: six PR it's what is it, it's twenty four minutes
Speaker 1: to eleven. Yes, sorry, it takes me a little while
Speaker 1: to get focused on those time calls when I'm getting
Speaker 1: this show underway. But it's time now to have a
Speaker 1: chat to Barry Erkhardt. Barry Erkhart is an internationally international
Speaker 1: I can't talk this morning either internationally recognized and respected
Speaker 1: conference keynote speaker, workshop facilitator, business strategist, and consumer behavior analyst.
Speaker 1: You must also, Barry, be the owner of the world's
Speaker 1: largest business card to have all that written on it.
Speaker 2: Well, I hope it's the explanatory enough because with that
Speaker 2: sort of introduction, it will take me some time to
Speaker 2: explain exactly what it is I do and what experience
Speaker 2: I've gained over the year.
Speaker 1: Is fin ah, and what is it exactly you do?
Speaker 2: Is?
Speaker 1: The answer for me is as little as possible?
Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, I think that there there in lies the answer. Though.
Speaker 2: We're a market rece urch and strategic planning practice, and
Speaker 2: so I go out and I research the questions not
Speaker 2: of what people are doing, how they're doing it, but
Speaker 2: more fundamentally for the advantages of businesses talking about the
Speaker 2: why question, why is it that people do So when
Speaker 2: a lot of people talk about research, they want statistics.
Speaker 2: Fifty four percent of people did this, seventy eight percent
Speaker 2: of people will do that. Well, that's very interesting in
Speaker 2: and of itself, but really that's not going to determine
Speaker 2: anything because the fundamental thing is, but why do they
Speaker 2: do that?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, interesting. Now, so this morning, you wanted to
Speaker 1: chat about customer recommendations. I love this as a topic.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think that it's a real myth that's
Speaker 2: been a long, long standing sort of premise that when
Speaker 2: you say to people, how's business go? I was fantastic,
Speaker 2: and what do you put it down to? Oh? No,
Speaker 2: eighty percent of my business comes from recommendations and referrals. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've heard that for a long period of time. But
Speaker 2: when you actually probe the question, that's not the case.
Speaker 2: Because you can ask a person simon, would you recommend
Speaker 2: Barry Yurka to pre a servitate or address a conference?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, But then you say, well, okay, you said that,
Speaker 2: but how many people actually do it? Because there's an
Speaker 2: innate reluctance to actually go out there, put your buying
Speaker 2: a proverbia on the line and say I'm going to
Speaker 2: recommend Simon or I'm going to recommend Barry, because it's
Speaker 2: the sort of thing where relationships can be fractured because
Speaker 2: based on that recommendation, someone else uses you and it
Speaker 2: doesn't work out. Therefore the person doing the presentation and
Speaker 2: sub performing isn't having the finger pointed at them. They
Speaker 2: go back to you and say, well, hold on, you
Speaker 2: recommended this guy and he was unbelievably disaster.
Speaker 1: It is really interesting to hear you say that, because
Speaker 1: I was listening to another radio announcer, Lucy and Kell,
Speaker 1: who do a show in another station, and they would Lucy.
Speaker 1: Then they happened to be husband and wife, and Lucy
Speaker 1: was saying that her husband Kel never ever recommends anything
Speaker 1: to anyone, and be it a movie, he's seen a book,
Speaker 1: he's read a restaurant, he's eat nut, he never recommends it.
Speaker 1: He never will come into work and say, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: I went here last night. You've really got to try it.
Speaker 1: And she probed him on air about why don't you
Speaker 1: ever recommend anything, and he said, because if people don't
Speaker 1: like it, then they won't respect me exactly.
Speaker 2: And that's a long lasting sort of a scenario, and
Speaker 2: the cascading effects of that sort of thing are quite
Speaker 2: quite profound. I would always say, all right, by all means,
Speaker 2: go out and not ask for recommendations, ask for an introduction.
Speaker 2: Were you happy with that? You're happy with that's fine.
Speaker 2: Is there anyone that you could actually affect an introduction
Speaker 2: for me? I don't need for you to recommend me,
Speaker 2: just to facilitate the introduction. So that and I would
Speaker 2: never recommend anyone to anyone because simply I said, look,
Speaker 2: seventy to eighty percent of the success in business is
Speaker 2: that the chemistry and the relationship. Does the chemistry click,
Speaker 2: I'm more than happy to facilitate to say this person
Speaker 2: is good, he's she or they have all this experience.
Speaker 2: This is what they do, this is how they do it.
Speaker 2: It may be of interest to you if you are interested.
Speaker 2: Here is his her or their phone number or email address.
Speaker 2: Make contact. It is the chemistry fits, that's the way
Speaker 2: for it to be affected.
Speaker 1: And that's very good too. Yes, because you're not actually
Speaker 1: saying you know you must do this because I've had
Speaker 1: a good experience. You're saying I've had a good experience.
Speaker 1: If you'd like, if you'd like an introduction, I can
Speaker 1: help you. It's a subtle difference, but it's an important difference.
Speaker 2: I think well, I think that it's all about integrity
Speaker 2: and transparency. I can hand on heart say to you,
Speaker 2: over my extended career in business, I have never taken
Speaker 2: a properation for you. I've never taken a kickbacker. I
Speaker 2: never taken a gratuity because Barrow, you know, is there
Speaker 2: anyone that you can help us get some business? We're
Speaker 2: more than it's a ten percent, fifteen percent and give
Speaker 2: it to you. I said, no, no, I never want
Speaker 2: to be compromised on that type of situation. I will
Speaker 2: do the introduction because I think the two of you
Speaker 2: would work together very very well. But it's going to
Speaker 2: be determined by you. You're going to take the risk. Therefore,
Speaker 2: there is absolutely no in age recognition or justification for
Speaker 2: me to be paid any population for you at all.
Speaker 2: So over the years I've always been able to see
Speaker 2: very sound at night, knowing full well that I have
Speaker 2: never been compromised on the drive of well, there's going
Speaker 2: to be some money in it for me and people.
Speaker 2: I've understood that over the years that they kind of say, now,
Speaker 2: that's a credible introduction, and I can take that, and
Speaker 2: I will make the decision and take responsibility and enjoy
Speaker 2: the rewards of the subsequent and consequential relationship development.
Speaker 1: Now, Barry, what are your thoughts on Google reviews? And
Speaker 1: I asked this because a little story of something that
Speaker 1: happened to me when I holiday. I holiday a place
Speaker 1: called Balnarring Caravan Park. Family have a little spot down there,
Speaker 1: and there was a pizza shop that was about a
Speaker 1: fifteen minute drive away, and I got a pizza from
Speaker 1: there and it was an incredibly good pizza to my tastes.
Speaker 1: And so they asked when I was at the pizza shop,
Speaker 1: they had a little thing They're saying, Google reviews, Can you,
Speaker 1: if you enjoy our product, please post a Google review.
Speaker 1: So I did a Google review and said five stars,
Speaker 1: this pizza was magnificent, the taste was fantastic, the crust,
Speaker 1: blah blah. I went into great detail about why I
Speaker 1: thought the pizza was great. About six seven months later,
Speaker 1: I got a little notification from Google saying your review
Speaker 1: has been viewed twenty thousand times, And I thought, well,
Speaker 1: that's magnificent, What a great favor I've done for the company.
Speaker 1: So when I went down the following year to the
Speaker 1: caravan park again, I thought, I'm going to get another
Speaker 1: one of those fabulous pizzas. The place had shut down.
Speaker 2: And therefore the question is you have put your personal
Speaker 2: integrity on the line. It comes back to personal recommendations.
Speaker 2: You know, one of the things that you didn't ask me,
Speaker 2: Will Barry? What have you done over the years, I've
Speaker 2: written the two largest selling books in Australasia on customer service.
Speaker 2: Everyone says, oh, no, no, we are wonderful small businesses
Speaker 2: in particular, Oh we can be the big guys because
Speaker 2: we give customer service. Well, the problem is that a
Speaker 2: lot of Australians are now saying the one thing that
Speaker 2: is lacking in customer service, particularly with the introduction and
Speaker 2: intrusion of artificial intelligence, is one word personal. And so
Speaker 2: what you've got to do is to say yes by
Speaker 2: all means in race it, innovation, creativity and that sort
Speaker 2: of thing, yes, but you make sure that that actually
Speaker 2: complements it doesn't replace humanity. Today the biggest factor in
Speaker 2: customer service, and there's fourteen steps of customer satisfaction. The
Speaker 2: first three relates to getting access and communication with the
Speaker 2: organization when there's an artificial intrusion of technology coming in
Speaker 2: and say your calls are important to us, or you know,
Speaker 2: push what age people want, even young people who used
Speaker 2: to be on Twitter and Facebook. And that's so, I
Speaker 2: just want to have access or a default recognition that
Speaker 2: I need to speak to a human being sometime, because
Speaker 2: it's not the sort of thing where someone who is
Speaker 2: a computer nerd can say I know all the answers
Speaker 2: and here are the five options. Well, if there's five
Speaker 2: options that you're offering. The one thing that a nerd
Speaker 2: doesn't do, particularly when they're very good at communicating with
Speaker 2: technology or algorithms, is personal contact. One of the great
Speaker 2: problems in pizza shops, in particular coffee lounces would be
Speaker 2: another example, is young people interesting in love have lost
Speaker 2: the art of eye contact. Now just imagine that when
Speaker 2: and I walked into a coffee Lounce today and I said, hello, Maria,
Speaker 2: how are you? And she said, Barry, You're the only
Speaker 2: person who ever comes in and treats me by name.
Speaker 2: And people say to me continuously, Barry, why is it
Speaker 2: that you get good customer service. The first thing that
Speaker 2: I do if I'm going to go back and have
Speaker 2: a lilace, no matter how tenuous or distant it is,
Speaker 2: is to find out the name of the person, because
Speaker 2: the one thing that will register most of all is
Speaker 2: when you recognize them by name. Immediately they stand up
Speaker 2: their cloud, They're recognized, They're there's not this lack of
Speaker 2: eye contact I always appreciate. At the end of the
Speaker 2: drinking of the coffee, I pick up my empty cup,
Speaker 2: I pick up the little tray that's got the end
Speaker 2: of the number on I take it back to the
Speaker 2: count and say thank you very much. Well, there's no
Speaker 2: need for you to do that. You're absolutely right, there
Speaker 2: was no need for me to do it. But I
Speaker 2: am most grateful for the service you provided. And what
Speaker 2: effort did it take me to take that empty cup
Speaker 2: with that little sign that says seventy eight because that
Speaker 2: was my table number and give it back to you.
Speaker 2: There are some simple things about recommendations, referrals, social contacts,
Speaker 2: but above all else, when it comes down to customer service,
Speaker 2: the thing that wins it every time is one word personal.
Speaker 1: Isn't that lovely? Yes, I had an incident the other
Speaker 1: day I have a that needs some repairs done to it,
Speaker 1: and I booked a company to come out and do
Speaker 1: a repair and they told me it was a one
Speaker 1: hour job and we'll be there on Thursday. We'll book
Speaker 1: you in for Thursday. And I knew I was going
Speaker 1: to be home all day Thursday, so I didn't bother
Speaker 1: negotiating a time because I had no plans to leave
Speaker 1: my house for the whole day Thursday. By five thirty pm,
Speaker 1: they still hadn't arrived. I did ring them to say
Speaker 1: that I was going to be going out for dinner
Speaker 1: because I just assumed they'd be there in business hours
Speaker 1: and that it would all be over. So I did
Speaker 1: ring them at two o'clock and they said, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: we'll be there at four. And by five thirty they
Speaker 1: still hadn't arrived. So I just left the house and
Speaker 1: went out for dinner. They rang me about fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: later and said, look, not going to get there today.
Speaker 1: I can be there at seven o'clock tomorrow morning. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry about this, but I'll be there at seven o'clock
Speaker 1: tomorrow morning. And I thought, well, that works well for me.
Speaker 1: I'll be doing the overnight thing. I'll get home at six.
Speaker 1: I'll be up at seven. I can cope with that nicely.
Speaker 1: He seven o'clock came, no sign of him. I texted him.
Speaker 1: He replied at about seven twenty and said, yes, on
Speaker 1: my way. I'll be there at eight thirty. And he
Speaker 1: finally got there at nine, and there was no sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm lt sorry about yesterday. He came in, did the job,
Speaker 1: did it quickly, did an excellent job. I can't fault
Speaker 1: the work that he did. But I had worked all
Speaker 1: through the night hosting this program, got home at six am.
Speaker 1: He had said he was going to be there at seven,
Speaker 1: so I stayed up. I was still up at nine
Speaker 1: when he arrived, and finally got to bed at ten.
Speaker 1: And even though the job he did was magnificent, there
Speaker 1: is no way in hell I would recommend that company
Speaker 1: to anyone more.
Speaker 2: Particularly, you would not say that that was good value.
Speaker 2: One thing that people have got to recognize is and
Speaker 2: there's always this sensitivity with the cost of living crisis
Speaker 2: that we've got. Oh, everyone's looking for those specials. It
Speaker 2: was only yesterday the toll said they're going to have
Speaker 2: three hundred and seven pitts they had discounted to an
Speaker 2: average price of teen percent day as a defective from
Speaker 2: today in Melbourne time and hold on, guys, that's all rubbish.
Speaker 2: All we want really is we don't want three hundred
Speaker 2: and seven specials. We want you know, there's twenty four
Speaker 2: thousand products out there. I want control and access. So
Speaker 2: that if you gave me one promise that you keep
Speaker 2: doing in your advertising and what has made Walmart the
Speaker 2: biggest and most successful retail group in the world. Don't
Speaker 2: be selective on what you offer. Just say that when
Speaker 2: Walmart says Simon, when you're ready to buy, no matter
Speaker 2: what you want to buy in as of Halibert Walmart,
Speaker 2: you will get. And here comes to quote every day
Speaker 2: lower prices. It means that with that seven day petrol
Speaker 2: cycle and you kind of buy their petrol on Wednesday
Speaker 2: because you're missed out getting cheap ass tuesdays discounted prices
Speaker 2: and you're now paying seventeen tents of leave. The more
Speaker 2: you are aggrieved and upset. And that's what is the difference.
Speaker 2: I wanted everyday lower prices. And so what we've got
Speaker 2: to recognize in customer services one price is consistently the
Speaker 2: fourth most important thing. And look with the economic circumstances,
Speaker 2: it's probably migrated to about the third most important thing.
Speaker 2: But today value and this is what value was all about.
Speaker 2: Value was really built up on modules of time. If
Speaker 2: you say, and this is what happens all the time, well, yes, okay,
Speaker 2: so we'll get this and you put something in and
Speaker 2: you're get an electrician or a plumber, and they say, look,
Speaker 2: will be there as soon as possible. Well, can I
Speaker 2: tell you right now if you've phoned the plumber at
Speaker 2: three o'clock in the morning because you're tought it's overflowing.
Speaker 2: And I say, yeah, we'll get there as soon as possible. No,
Speaker 2: that's not good enough. Be specific. Recognize that it's modules
Speaker 2: of time and if you can't meet those times, so
Speaker 2: they advise them in advance to let them make sometingency plans.
Speaker 2: But what we need to do is to take a
Speaker 2: better sense of what is value. And I've just written
Speaker 2: an article I get syndicated by forty nine trade and
Speaker 2: industry magazines around the world, and someone put to me, Barry,
Speaker 2: what is value? And they said, well, and this is
Speaker 2: the critical issue that you know. This is one time
Speaker 2: that you can look and say you are important in
Speaker 2: this equation. If you want to be valued, you've got
Speaker 2: to offer value. Think about that. It's not about price.
Speaker 2: It's not about saying, hold on, I'll be there at
Speaker 2: four o'clock and then five point thirty or seven o'clock
Speaker 2: next morning. What value is about is a piece of
Speaker 2: mind purchasing. When I make the phone call and they
Speaker 2: say they're going to be there at five o'clock, they
Speaker 2: should be there every time. Because Macy's the you know,
Speaker 2: the big department store in America they had, and we
Speaker 2: all always hear the criticism about Tony Abbott, you know,
Speaker 2: with the three word policy just stop the boats one.
Speaker 2: It's easy to understand too. It's quantifiable and people could
Speaker 2: remember it. All that macy said is satisfaction guaranteed period
Speaker 2: three words, compellingly attractive. And that's the personal commitment that
Speaker 2: was committed and delegated that everyone at the front line
Speaker 2: within Macy's had that authority to ensure that there was
Speaker 2: customer satisfaction guarantees, even to the extent of replacing the
Speaker 2: product without referring it to a manager.
Speaker 1: Amazing Barrier Carter, It's been delightful chatting to you. I've
Speaker 1: kept you far too long. We are well overdue for
Speaker 1: a break. It's been marvelous chatting to you. I look forward,
Speaker 1: well I don't look forward to the next time Tony's ill,
Speaker 1: but I look forward to the next time I happen
Speaker 1: to be on and we get to speak again. Barrier Carter,
Speaker 1: thank you.