WEBVTT - Politics with Dr Martin Drum, 22 June 2025

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<v Speaker 1>This is Remember When with Harvey Degan on Perth six PR.

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<v Speaker 2>And time for a regular chat that we have on

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<v Speaker 2>Remember When with doctor Martin Drum, Professor of Politics and

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<v Speaker 2>International Relations at Notre Dame University. Welcome to the show

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<v Speaker 2>once again. Always a pleasure to have you on the show.

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<v Speaker 1>Martin.

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<v Speaker 3>Great to be joining you, Harvey, and.

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<v Speaker 2>There's plenty to talk about. We're going to try to

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<v Speaker 2>delve into this very convoluted situation involving Iran and the

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<v Speaker 2>American raids on the nuclear facilities in Iran and go

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<v Speaker 2>back through a bit of the history of the relations

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<v Speaker 2>I suppose you'd say, over many, many years between Iran

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<v Speaker 2>and the USA.

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<v Speaker 1>But before we do, I'd just like you to perhaps.

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<v Speaker 2>Have a quick look at the budget, the result of

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<v Speaker 2>the state budget. I guess we're fairly used to in Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>We might be a bit cynical when we say this,

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<v Speaker 2>but particularly with four year terms, the first budget after

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<v Speaker 2>a government is elected or re elected is well can

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<v Speaker 2>be a pretty tough one. There's no pork barreling, and

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<v Speaker 2>there won't be for another three years. But do you

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<v Speaker 2>think it was a tough budget? Was it a fair budget?

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<v Speaker 2>What's your overall impression of Redasafiotti's budget the new.

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<v Speaker 3>Treasurer, well, I guess the one tough thing and maybe

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<v Speaker 3>it was inevitable, but it's the removal of the electricity credits.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the extra money that has been tipped into your

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<v Speaker 3>energy bill by the government to try and help you

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<v Speaker 3>with that. So our households are being weaned off that now,

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<v Speaker 3>and it just means that there's some extra pain, I think,

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<v Speaker 3>because the reality is that electricity devices have been going

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<v Speaker 3>up simply substantially in a rising again, and there's some

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<v Speaker 3>look in terms of our other pain. The water bills

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<v Speaker 3>are rising. I think, emergency service levy's going up. There's

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<v Speaker 3>other charges that are going up as well here and there,

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<v Speaker 3>like car red Joe. But I've looked probably slightly better

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<v Speaker 3>for somehouseholds is a flat rate for public transport, which

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<v Speaker 3>is probably good on the broad sense. Harvey, you're talking

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<v Speaker 3>about a two and a half billion dollar surplus, which

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<v Speaker 3>is pretty good. Figures in that sense. State debt those

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<v Speaker 3>on the rise. It's reality and a big focus on infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 3>So a lot of it's around this sort of may

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<v Speaker 3>made in wa sort of slogan that they're using and

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<v Speaker 3>trying to stimulate the local economy there with a whole

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<v Speaker 3>range of different infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the real big tests for people in WI,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, are those that can't afford to buy house.

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<v Speaker 2>They have to rent, and rents are just absolutely through

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<v Speaker 2>the roof. Did you see anything in the budget that

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<v Speaker 2>might assist people who are in that situation.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So they've got this sort of rent to buy

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<v Speaker 3>program that they've rolled out, and there was an election commitment,

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<v Speaker 3>so they're looking to fulfill that part and that's going

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<v Speaker 3>to help some first home buyers certainly. There's also a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of work trying to try and unlock supply, including

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<v Speaker 3>supporting apprentices etc. And skilled shortages which have been a

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<v Speaker 3>significant obstacle on the supply side. So that won't but

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<v Speaker 3>the problem is that won't improve the housing supply straight away.

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<v Speaker 3>It's more of a pipeline issue, but it's probably going

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<v Speaker 3>to pay dividends down the track.

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<v Speaker 2>We are one of the if not the fastest growing

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<v Speaker 2>state population wise, of all the states of Australia. About

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<v Speaker 2>three hundred thousand people have moved to Wa in the

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<v Speaker 2>past five years, and of course that does put a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of pressure, doesn't it on infrastructure?

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<v Speaker 1>And supply and all those sort of issues.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think the government's done enough in this budget

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<v Speaker 2>to decater for what will continue to be an exponential

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<v Speaker 2>increase in our population.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, certainly, I think in some ways they're playing catch

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<v Speaker 3>up because there has been a challenge to date in

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<v Speaker 3>how many houses have been built. But I mean I

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<v Speaker 3>think there is a much stronger focus on housing this

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<v Speaker 3>time around than there has been probably in the past.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, you're getting a range of different measures

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<v Speaker 3>that have been been touted to try and improve our

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<v Speaker 3>housings are blight and I think it's around the supply

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<v Speaker 3>side that the real works required, so hopefully they'll start

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<v Speaker 3>to make a difference. I still think probably more community

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<v Speaker 3>social housing have be needed to try and help that

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<v Speaker 3>waiting list. I think it's about twenty two thousand people,

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<v Speaker 3>so there's still a lot of work to be done.

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<v Speaker 3>In other area.

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<v Speaker 2>Have you yeah, a lot of opposition or some opposition,

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<v Speaker 2>I supposely from the opposition to the Burswood supercar track.

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<v Speaker 3>What's your view on that, Well, it's not something I'll

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<v Speaker 3>followed really closely. I think state governments have a responsibility

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<v Speaker 3>to provide a range of different services and I think

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<v Speaker 3>i'd be focusing it on value for money for that project.

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<v Speaker 3>Is it going to be delivered on time and on budget?

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<v Speaker 3>And is that entire area, because it's in quite a

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<v Speaker 3>what's a bit of a prime real estate might describe it,

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<v Speaker 3>is that is it going to sufficiently lift the entire

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<v Speaker 3>area and make it a great place to come to?

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<v Speaker 2>Certainly not in our state, nowhere near our state. But

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<v Speaker 2>I have to pass a comment that Tasmania is going

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<v Speaker 2>through the mill at the moment, of course, with a

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<v Speaker 2>snap election being called following the Premier Rockcliffe having had

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<v Speaker 2>a successful no no confidence motion passed against him and

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<v Speaker 2>he's rather than resigned, called us election. And part of

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<v Speaker 2>the issue is the proposed stadium at a place called

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<v Speaker 2>Macquarie Point. And you know, I can't help but perhaps

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<v Speaker 2>go back to you maybe Optus and the Belltower on

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<v Speaker 2>that with you know, the opposition to those initially and

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<v Speaker 2>now they're all part of the landscape. And I suspect

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<v Speaker 2>that'll be the same in Tassy as well. I know

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<v Speaker 2>Tassy's not your bailiwick, but I know you'd also be

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<v Speaker 2>keeping a pretty good class eye on it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I'm quite intrigued to see how this all

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<v Speaker 3>pans out. This is a really unusual election. It's borne

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<v Speaker 3>out via no confidence motion against the premier that passed

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<v Speaker 3>on the floor of their Legslith Assembly. So they forced

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<v Speaker 3>back to the polls, you know, much earlier than they

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<v Speaker 3>should have been. They were in the inn the polls

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<v Speaker 3>last year. I had an election in twenty four. I

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<v Speaker 3>imagine there'd be a number of voters that are deeply

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<v Speaker 3>unhappy with how maybe the government and opposition have contrived

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<v Speaker 3>to get this result, because it seems that both of

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<v Speaker 3>them relatively happy to go back to the polls. I

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<v Speaker 3>just wonder if they might be punished by a round

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<v Speaker 3>of people voting for other parties.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's what's going to happen over there for

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<v Speaker 2>absolute sure and certain. All right, mate, well what we

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<v Speaker 2>might do if you don't mind a clear a commitment

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<v Speaker 2>And then I do want to have a look in

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<v Speaker 2>detail at the Iran situation.

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<v Speaker 1>On Perth six PR. This is remember when with Harvey

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<v Speaker 1>d Gan.

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<v Speaker 2>And doctor Martin drum has joined us Dtor Drumm from

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<v Speaker 2>Notre Dame University. Well, I shouldn't imagine there's a country

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<v Speaker 2>in the world that's not looking with some concern, some

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<v Speaker 2>great concern over the situation in the in the Middle East,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course the latest is that Donald Trump has

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<v Speaker 2>again struck targets in Iran and well virtually has said

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<v Speaker 2>that he's neutralized their nuclear capability.

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<v Speaker 3>Can we believe that, well, it's unclear, certainly unclear at

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<v Speaker 3>this stage. I mean, it's only happened this morning about

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<v Speaker 3>the complete fall out of this, so certainly the Defense

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<v Speaker 3>Secretary has claimed that the US has destroyed those facilities.

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<v Speaker 3>By a contrast, Iranian State TV is telling us that

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<v Speaker 3>there's that minimal damage. Of course, we know the fog

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<v Speaker 3>of war. Both sides will try and state their position

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<v Speaker 3>and convince us. I think we'll probably have to wait

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit longer to see just how much difference

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<v Speaker 3>that's made.

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<v Speaker 2>You mentioned the word war quite rightly, so I think

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<v Speaker 2>there has been no declaration of war as such. What's

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<v Speaker 2>the situation there? If we don't want this to happen,

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<v Speaker 2>we desperately don't want this to happen. But if the

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<v Speaker 2>situation escalates and it becomes war, my understanding, and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't understand how politics works in the United States, to

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<v Speaker 2>be perfectly honest, is that a president cannot declare war

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<v Speaker 2>that has to be done with the approval of Congress.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that correct?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the planet presidents can and do order strikes and

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<v Speaker 3>individual individual activities, and they'll always claim that there's a

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<v Speaker 3>reason for those. And certainly this was the Trump approach,

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<v Speaker 3>that he's preventing the imminent, the imminent role of Iran

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<v Speaker 3>and acquiring a nuclear weapon. But certainly Congress has to

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<v Speaker 3>authorize the funding of war and the ongoing cost that's

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<v Speaker 3>likely to entail. So at some stage you'll need to

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<v Speaker 3>go to Congress if indeed this becomes a full blown conflict,

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<v Speaker 3>and of course that's certainly a risk following those strikes.

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<v Speaker 2>Today, another development is that the Iranian Foreign minister says

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<v Speaker 2>that he has a meeting with Vladimir person of Russia,

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<v Speaker 2>of course in the morning. So why do you think

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<v Speaker 2>they are conversing and how does that impact on the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of us.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, if this is part of the potential escalation that

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<v Speaker 3>this event has, Iran and Russia are close allies. In fact,

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<v Speaker 3>probably Iran is a size of Belarus, probably the closest

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<v Speaker 3>that Russia has and has a system in drawing production

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<v Speaker 3>and another means with the war in Ukraine, so Russia's

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<v Speaker 3>condemned this attack unsurprisingly, and part of the reason for

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<v Speaker 3>the Iranian Foreign minister is to try and secure Russian support.

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<v Speaker 3>But I mean, I do think Russia also is very

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<v Speaker 3>reluctant to get into a direct conflict with the US.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they would be wise to think about that, that's

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<v Speaker 2>for sure. Iran history will show us that Iran won't

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<v Speaker 2>just sit back and cop this, that they will probably

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<v Speaker 2>strike back. How do you think they will affect that

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<v Speaker 2>because they're just not going to Well, maybe they will

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<v Speaker 2>lie down, and maybe they will surrender, as Trump has

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<v Speaker 2>said that it's not negotiable.

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<v Speaker 1>But I've got my doubts.

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<v Speaker 3>What about you, Well, I mean they are back into

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<v Speaker 3>a corner now, and the real danger for these strikes

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<v Speaker 3>is that what it provokes. And there's certainly our real

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<v Speaker 3>possibility that Aram's going to straight back. I mean, they've

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<v Speaker 3>both from the eye tooler come any down. They've threatened

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<v Speaker 3>retaliation if they if they were attacked, And the problem

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<v Speaker 3>with that, of course, is that the credibility of your

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<v Speaker 3>ragme in the eyes of its own citizens is linked

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<v Speaker 3>to the threats that you made and whether you're going

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<v Speaker 3>to follow through with it. So if you're attacked, and

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<v Speaker 3>don't respond. I think that that weakens for the whole ragime.

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<v Speaker 3>Of course, the alternative, though it might be worse. If

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<v Speaker 3>they respond to the US, then the US may just

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<v Speaker 3>unleash full military power and you know, a fascinate the

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<v Speaker 3>political leaders and destroy all forms of infrastructure they rely on,

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<v Speaker 3>and that would make their position really really challenging. So

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<v Speaker 3>they are in a really difficult bind. But it's not

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<v Speaker 3>inconceivable at all that they could lash it up. There's

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of US assets in the region. There's troops

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<v Speaker 3>all through Iraq, for instance, which are potentially vulnerable, and

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<v Speaker 3>as of course US ships in the Gulf just south

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<v Speaker 3>of Iran as well, so there's a lot of potential

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<v Speaker 3>assets that could be the line fire.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, the America's interest in Iran that didn't happen

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<v Speaker 2>yesterday or the day before. This goes back, I believe,

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<v Speaker 2>to the fifties, and it goes back as far as

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<v Speaker 2>when Dwight D. Eisenhower was the President of the United

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<v Speaker 2>States and they had an agreement I believe with Iran.

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<v Speaker 2>It was called Atoms for Peace, in which developing countries

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<v Speaker 2>received nuclear education and technology from the United States. So

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<v Speaker 2>what happened was Apparently the US later provided Iran with

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<v Speaker 2>a nuclear reactor and weapons grade enriched uranium fuel. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's kind of where the ball started rolling, wasn't it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So, I mean things have not always been the

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<v Speaker 3>same between around in the US. Certainly during the rule

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<v Speaker 3>of the Shah, which ended in nineteen seventy nine, the

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<v Speaker 3>US and Iran weren't very good terms. And in fact,

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<v Speaker 3>the US was the major armed supplier to Iran at

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<v Speaker 3>that time, and they cooperated and collaborated in the whole

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<v Speaker 3>range of ways. And that whole situation turned one hundred

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<v Speaker 3>and eighty degrees with the Islamic Revolution in nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 3>nine and the new raging coming in, and they've had

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<v Speaker 3>no diplomatic relations since.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, Well, that probably came out of left field. They

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<v Speaker 2>may not have anticipated that was going to happen. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what happens when you haven't Islamic state born of what

0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.560
<v Speaker 2>was essentially a kingdom. We need to take another break, Martin,

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.120
<v Speaker 2>if you don't mind, then, I do want to ask

0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:06.200
<v Speaker 2>you about the various roles that subsequent presidents, including Nixon

0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.720
<v Speaker 2>and co. Have had to play in the Iran situation.

0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.559
<v Speaker 2>When with Harvey Degan on Perth six PR I'm chatting

0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.720
<v Speaker 2>to Martin Drumm from a Notre Dame university. We mentioned,

0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 2>first of all White Eisenhower, President Eisenhower's involvement. Then the

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:28.680
<v Speaker 2>Richard Nixon went to Iran in the days when it

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.320
<v Speaker 2>was the Shah of Iran who was running the show,

0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.720
<v Speaker 2>and he traveled, as I believed, to ask the Shaft

0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 2>for help protecting US security interest in the Middle East,

0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.960
<v Speaker 2>and in return he promised that Iran could buy any

0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:46.320
<v Speaker 2>non nuclear weapons it wanted. And then of course came

0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.440
<v Speaker 2>the Arab Israeli War of nineteen seventy three. So that

0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.240
<v Speaker 2>was a really volatile time in the Middle Eastern affairs,

0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.320
<v Speaker 2>as if it's not always a pretty volatile time.

0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 3>Per certainly Harvey, and all the way through to nine

0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.560
<v Speaker 3>seventy nine, generally the US had a pretty good relationship

0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:11.360
<v Speaker 3>with Iran, and a number of presidents I think had

0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 3>had fairly good dealings with the Shower of Iran until

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.200
<v Speaker 3>nine and seventy nine, And of course that all changes

0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.560
<v Speaker 3>and it's people will be aware of the Lame Revolution,

0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.000
<v Speaker 3>but even in the very early days of the revolution,

0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 3>they took US citizens or US embassy staff hostage and

0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 3>Jimmy Carter had to try and release them, and it

0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.920
<v Speaker 3>had a lot of difficulty in doing so, which undermined

0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:42.000
<v Speaker 3>his credibility and some say led to the loss of

0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 3>the nine eighty US presidential election.

0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and Ronald Reagan, he what was his involvement in

0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 2>his relationship with Iran.

0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.960
<v Speaker 3>Well, he kind of tacitly sided with Iraq during the

0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 3>Iraq Iran War because they were stung by their experiences

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.960
<v Speaker 3>of the nineteen seventy nine revolution. And it's hard to

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.960
<v Speaker 3>believe that they supported and helped armed so they are

0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.480
<v Speaker 3>the saying of all people against against Iran. So that's

0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.360
<v Speaker 3>how much they disliked Iran. But there was a lot

0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.720
<v Speaker 3>of dodgy stuff going on because there were some officials

0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.720
<v Speaker 3>in the Reagan administration that secretly sold weapons to Iran.

0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 3>It's known as the Iran Contra scandal in the mid eighties.

0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 3>So that was happening at the same time there was

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.680
<v Speaker 3>a general sanctions against the Irani Ragim.

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and I think Oliver North was the guy, Lieutenant

0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Colonel Oliver North. He was up to his easy in

0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.880
<v Speaker 2>that one. But I understand that that the Iran contra

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 2>affair was a bid to secure the release of several Americans,

0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.520
<v Speaker 2>think seven I think held hostage by j Hesbalara in Lebanon.

0:16:54.200 --> 0:17:01.600
<v Speaker 3>That's right, it was the Contra rebels in Karagua. I

0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.440
<v Speaker 3>think the links to Lebanon, yes, and Iran had influenced

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 3>in Lebanon, so you know, there was a lot of

0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.399
<v Speaker 3>murky connections at that stage. So yeah, there was, and

0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.040
<v Speaker 3>I think even I think there was an accidental shooting

0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:17.679
<v Speaker 3>down at one of the Iranian airlines in late eighties

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.920
<v Speaker 3>as well, so it was a very turbulent time.

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was nineteen eighty eight I think, and was

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.199
<v Speaker 2>then the US Navy who managed to shoot down an

0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.440
<v Speaker 2>Iranian passenger yet was nearly three hundred people on board

0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.600
<v Speaker 2>are all killed. Of course, then of course came the

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Persian Gulf for more problems.

0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:42.840
<v Speaker 3>That's right. So there was another flashpoint again for their

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.879
<v Speaker 3>relations as well. And then if you're going through to

0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:51.200
<v Speaker 3>Clinton's you know he reached out briefly when Katami was

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.639
<v Speaker 3>president of Iran and Tomi was a little bit more

0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.720
<v Speaker 3>friendly to the West, but the Ila Coman he didn't

0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.160
<v Speaker 3>really want to see in the way of thoring of relationships.

0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.879
<v Speaker 3>He put the kybosh on that and then George Bush

0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:10.680
<v Speaker 3>famously styled around Iraq and North Korea as constituting in

0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.920
<v Speaker 3>access of evil in two thousand and two, Harvey So,

0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:18.680
<v Speaker 3>and that was some indication of just how bad the

0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:20.560
<v Speaker 3>relationship had deteriorated to.

0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.680
<v Speaker 2>Wasn't Bush trying to do a sort of a backdoor

0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:29.639
<v Speaker 2>deal to help well, it didn't happen, but to to

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:31.879
<v Speaker 2>help engineer what he hoped would be the defeat of

0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:33.000
<v Speaker 2>the Taliban.

0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.040
<v Speaker 3>Well, he did. He did try. This is later on.

0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.600
<v Speaker 3>He did try to enlist around support in that respect.

0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.240
<v Speaker 3>I mean, they were bordering Afghanistan and some of the

0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.720
<v Speaker 3>Azaris that were were not well treated by the Taliban

0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.119
<v Speaker 3>had found refuge in Iran, and I think they were

0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.040
<v Speaker 3>hopeful that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.399
<v Speaker 3>But there's I don't think that there was a lot

0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.280
<v Speaker 3>of co op cooperation. Not a lot came of that

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:06.400
<v Speaker 3>entreaty either.

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:11.680
<v Speaker 2>And in his first term as as president, Donald Trump

0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.040
<v Speaker 2>was up to his ears in the Iranian situation.

0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.720
<v Speaker 1>What were some of the key decisions that he made

0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:18.760
<v Speaker 1>during that first term.

0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean the most significant one was during the

0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.160
<v Speaker 3>the Obarmer administration, they managed to have a joint brand

0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 3>they had I think it's called the Joint Comprehensive Plan

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:38.560
<v Speaker 3>of Action, and they had a deal to limit Iranian

0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:44.720
<v Speaker 3>nuclear and the Uranian in richment, and effectively Iran was

0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:49.200
<v Speaker 3>granted relief from from part of the international and economic sanctions.

0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.520
<v Speaker 3>And they had inspectors coming in regularly to certify this.

0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.520
<v Speaker 3>And that was probably a bit again, a bit of

0:19:55.600 --> 0:20:01.919
<v Speaker 3>a thawing in that relationship temporarily, and but things quickly

0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:08.760
<v Speaker 3>deteriorated again. They had in twenty twenty. You're probably familiar

0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:14.080
<v Speaker 3>with Salamani, who is the leader of the Kods force.

0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.080
<v Speaker 3>He was one of the leading sort of proponents of

0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:21.480
<v Speaker 3>Hamas and Hesbalaa and some of those other offshoots of Iran,

0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.280
<v Speaker 3>and he got assassinated by the US. So again that

0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.720
<v Speaker 3>probably put the kybosh on at the start of Trump's administrations,

0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.320
<v Speaker 3>their attempts to any attempts they might have had to

0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:35.080
<v Speaker 3>fall things out.

0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, it is a very very tricky situation. That is

0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:42.200
<v Speaker 2>understating the case big time. But we'll just wait and

0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.960
<v Speaker 2>see what happens. We hope for a peaceful outcome. We

0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.600
<v Speaker 2>will see, I suppose. But look, Martin, thanks for analyzing

0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.280
<v Speaker 2>all that for us. Tonight has put it really in perspective,

0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.720
<v Speaker 2>we just want to be just as distant as we

0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.080
<v Speaker 2>can be from this conflict, which we hope will be

0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.640
<v Speaker 2>resolved to the satisfaction of all parts. He's made Thanks

0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:02.080
<v Speaker 2>for your time, really appreciate it.

0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:03.800
<v Speaker 3>Pleasure Harvey.

0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:05.879
<v Speaker 1>That's doctor Martin drum And.

0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:10.800
<v Speaker 2>Martin, of course is from the Notre Dame University and

0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:13.960
<v Speaker 2>he's a professor of politics and international relations.