1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:08,160 S1: Another tranche. More than 3 million pages worth of the 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:12,000 S1: Epstein Files has been published. The US Department of Justice 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,360 S1: says this is the last and final drop. But there 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,919 S1: are reportedly millions more being kept from view. So is 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,600 S1: there anything in them that actually hurts President Donald Trump? 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,720 S1: I'm Samantha Sellinger Morris, and you're listening to Morning Edition 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,080 S1: from The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald today, international 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,880 S1: and political editor Peter Hartcher on how the Epstein files 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:45,879 S1: are driving Trump's war pageant. It's Thursday, February 5th. Firstly, Peter, 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,839 S1: welcome back to the podcast. It has been a very 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,280 S1: long three months without you. 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,479 S2: It was a long lunch break, but I'm glad to 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:53,720 S2: be back at work. 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,400 S1: Okay. And no better time in terms of helping us 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,680 S1: sort of work out what is happening. First off, can 16 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,740 S1: you just tell us how damaging is the latest tranche 17 00:01:02,740 --> 00:01:05,580 S1: of the Epstein files? We know they amount to more 18 00:01:05,580 --> 00:01:08,700 S1: than 3 million pages. So how damaging are they to 19 00:01:08,740 --> 00:01:09,459 S1: Donald Trump? 20 00:01:09,580 --> 00:01:12,980 S2: Well, there are two categories here, I'd say Samantha. One 21 00:01:12,980 --> 00:01:17,860 S2: is the category of the direct accusation. The other is 22 00:01:17,860 --> 00:01:23,459 S2: the category of what's not available, what's not been published, 23 00:01:23,540 --> 00:01:27,020 S2: and what we still don't know. In my view, the 24 00:01:27,020 --> 00:01:31,940 S2: most damaging aspect is not the accusation so far. It's 25 00:01:31,940 --> 00:01:35,060 S2: the stuff that we haven't seen or haven't heard, and 26 00:01:35,060 --> 00:01:40,660 S2: that the Trump administration is apparently reluctant to release because 27 00:01:41,540 --> 00:01:46,860 S2: whatever evidence is produced, Trump always has a way of 28 00:01:46,860 --> 00:01:52,100 S2: dismissing it or excusing it. But he's confronting it. What 29 00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:56,980 S2: disturbs his support base and the MAGA movement most of all, 30 00:01:57,340 --> 00:02:01,410 S2: is the suspicion that he's hiding something. What harms him 31 00:02:01,410 --> 00:02:07,410 S2: is that he campaigned strongly and insistently and furiously on 32 00:02:07,410 --> 00:02:13,290 S2: the urgent priority of getting all the files published. Pam Bondi, 33 00:02:13,330 --> 00:02:15,410 S2: Attorney General, remember, she said, I have the file list 34 00:02:15,410 --> 00:02:18,010 S2: on my desk. I have the client list. We're going 35 00:02:18,010 --> 00:02:21,210 S2: to publish everything. And then suddenly, when they'd had a 36 00:02:21,210 --> 00:02:23,690 S2: chance to look at all this stuff, Trump said, oh, 37 00:02:23,690 --> 00:02:27,450 S2: it's all a hoax. It's a Democrat hoax. Forget about it. 38 00:02:27,690 --> 00:02:31,089 S2: And from that moment, that really tested the faith of 39 00:02:31,090 --> 00:02:34,650 S2: a lot of his more ardent followers. They thought he 40 00:02:34,650 --> 00:02:41,410 S2: was there to uproot this massive pedophile scandal that was 41 00:02:41,410 --> 00:02:46,929 S2: shielding the political and business elites of the country. And 42 00:02:46,930 --> 00:02:49,450 S2: all of a sudden, they're confronted with the prospect that 43 00:02:49,810 --> 00:02:52,609 S2: maybe Trump is part of that plot and is now 44 00:02:52,610 --> 00:02:57,090 S2: protecting himself. Now, if all the files were out, uh, 45 00:02:57,610 --> 00:02:59,930 S2: they could Trump could confront that and deal with it. 46 00:03:01,030 --> 00:03:03,550 S2: And I should add that of what is directly accused. 47 00:03:03,550 --> 00:03:11,990 S2: So far, there is no confirmed actual hard evidence against him. 48 00:03:11,990 --> 00:03:15,430 S2: There's a lot of suggestive stuff. The the committee, the 49 00:03:15,430 --> 00:03:17,590 S2: oversight committee that's been looking at all this material says 50 00:03:17,630 --> 00:03:21,990 S2: there are something like 38,000 references to Trump altogether in 51 00:03:21,990 --> 00:03:25,750 S2: all the material, including the stuff we haven't seen. But 52 00:03:25,750 --> 00:03:29,709 S2: none of that has a hard confirmed accusation of wrongdoing 53 00:03:29,710 --> 00:03:32,430 S2: by Trump or criminal conduct by Trump. 54 00:03:32,830 --> 00:03:35,590 S1: I mean, there's definitely no smoking gun, but should we 55 00:03:35,590 --> 00:03:37,750 S1: perhaps walk through a few of the, I guess, more 56 00:03:37,750 --> 00:03:41,310 S1: explosive suggestions? Because there are some explosive suggestions. I mean, 57 00:03:41,350 --> 00:03:43,869 S1: you know, there's been a lot of media coverage, I think, 58 00:03:43,910 --> 00:03:45,990 S1: on this list. It was a list of tips to 59 00:03:46,030 --> 00:03:49,750 S1: the FBI. It's got to be mentioned, absolutely unsubstantiated. They're 60 00:03:49,750 --> 00:03:54,030 S1: just allegations. But among them were allegations that Trump sexually 61 00:03:54,030 --> 00:04:00,860 S1: assaulted young girls. Again, unsubstantiated, completely denied strenuously by the 62 00:04:00,860 --> 00:04:03,940 S1: white House. That's just one of the sort of bombshells, 63 00:04:03,980 --> 00:04:06,460 S1: I guess, suggestions that's come out of it. So in addition, 64 00:04:06,460 --> 00:04:09,180 S1: I think, is that Vladimir Putin is mentioned no less 65 00:04:09,180 --> 00:04:12,900 S1: than a thousand times and again, not in association with Trump. 66 00:04:12,900 --> 00:04:16,300 S1: He's just been mentioned. But, you know, various analysts are saying, well, 67 00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:19,099 S1: this might be a suggestion that Epstein might have even 68 00:04:19,100 --> 00:04:21,260 S1: been working for the Russians. You know, maybe that there's 69 00:04:21,260 --> 00:04:25,180 S1: some sort of security breach or risk there, given his 70 00:04:25,180 --> 00:04:27,980 S1: association with Trump. So do you think any of this stuff, 71 00:04:27,980 --> 00:04:31,220 S1: though it is absolutely unsubstantiated, could hurt Trump? 72 00:04:31,860 --> 00:04:35,940 S2: Well, it operates not. I don't think it operates through 73 00:04:36,260 --> 00:04:38,740 S2: direct claim against him for which he could be stood 74 00:04:38,740 --> 00:04:41,500 S2: up in a court of law or impeached. I think 75 00:04:41,500 --> 00:04:47,100 S2: it's this swirling cloud of suspicion and mystery because when 76 00:04:47,300 --> 00:04:51,900 S2: you have suspicion, unanswered fears and doubts, your imagination does 77 00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:55,420 S2: the work. So it doesn't matter that there are no 78 00:04:55,420 --> 00:04:57,940 S2: actual accusations, and as long as he is seen to 79 00:04:57,940 --> 00:05:03,520 S2: be covering something up. uh, having something to hide. This 80 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,919 S2: is a problem for him. So there are still 3 81 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,640 S2: million more. They've released 3 million pages. There are 3 82 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,200 S2: million more that they have yet to release and said 83 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,080 S2: they won't release. That is the damaging part, I think, 84 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,760 S2: because it means that not only is this an uncomfortable 85 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,360 S2: and inconvenient subject for Donald Trump, but that it guarantees 86 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,520 S2: it will continue. He has not been able to cauterize 87 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,839 S2: this wound and say there nothing to worry about. Let's 88 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,240 S2: get on with making America great again. And it's, you know, 89 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,640 S2: most of the half the country has already written Trump off. 90 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,120 S2: They've already they already think he's contemptible, but it's his 91 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,880 S2: support base where this harms him. And that's why it's 92 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,719 S2: so potent. It's the MAGA people. It's the his most 93 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,919 S2: fanatical supporters. They're the ones who are now full of 94 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,000 S2: doubt and concerned about this. 95 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,560 S1: And is there any suggestion of what might be in 96 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,200 S1: those remaining 3 million or so pages or files that 97 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:01,469 S1: are not going to be released. 98 00:06:01,910 --> 00:06:04,510 S2: Well, that's the thing we don't we do know that 99 00:06:04,510 --> 00:06:08,230 S2: there are tens of thousands of references to Donald Trump 100 00:06:08,230 --> 00:06:11,390 S2: by name in the remaining documents that have been withheld 101 00:06:11,390 --> 00:06:15,590 S2: from the public. But it's the fact that we don't know. 102 00:06:16,270 --> 00:06:19,589 S2: It's the mystery and the unknown, and that is driving 103 00:06:19,870 --> 00:06:27,830 S2: Donald Trump's constant need for distractions, for large theatrical distractions, 104 00:06:28,110 --> 00:06:31,909 S2: so that people don't look at the Epstein files and 105 00:06:31,910 --> 00:06:36,110 S2: Trump's problem, but at what he's doing elsewhere. He's got 106 00:06:36,150 --> 00:06:37,910 S2: a lot to distract from. I mean, the two main 107 00:06:37,910 --> 00:06:41,390 S2: ones are the Epstein files and the cost of living, 108 00:06:41,390 --> 00:06:46,229 S2: because Americans are really suffering. Working class Americans, middle class 109 00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:51,070 S2: Americans are really under pressure financially. He promised prices would 110 00:06:51,070 --> 00:06:53,270 S2: come down. He keeps going around saying prices are coming down. 111 00:06:53,310 --> 00:06:56,790 S2: Of course they're not. Um, inflation is still increasing in 112 00:06:56,790 --> 00:06:59,750 S2: the US. So and he's sometimes he tries to address 113 00:06:59,750 --> 00:07:03,490 S2: this but he's very unconvincing. So what do you do 114 00:07:03,490 --> 00:07:07,490 S2: when you've got this huge pain coursing through the public? 115 00:07:07,930 --> 00:07:13,410 S2: You've got this awful sex scandal, um, that is sowing 116 00:07:13,450 --> 00:07:16,250 S2: doubt and fear amongst your base. You find something else 117 00:07:16,250 --> 00:07:17,010 S2: to talk about? 118 00:07:17,250 --> 00:07:19,410 S1: Well, that's right, and you've just focused on this. So 119 00:07:19,410 --> 00:07:24,090 S1: tell us about what you're calling Trump's war pageant and how, 120 00:07:24,290 --> 00:07:26,770 S1: you know, this is really being driven by the looming 121 00:07:26,810 --> 00:07:31,410 S1: Epstein files and presumably the -61 point approval rating, which 122 00:07:31,410 --> 00:07:33,690 S1: I think Trump is enjoying, if that's the word right now. 123 00:07:33,690 --> 00:07:36,530 S1: And of course, the American public's hatred of what's happening 124 00:07:36,530 --> 00:07:39,210 S1: with Ice. So tell us about the war pageant, Peter, 125 00:07:39,210 --> 00:07:42,490 S1: because really, I think you're referring to how he attacked Venezuela, 126 00:07:42,490 --> 00:07:44,970 S1: and then he's gone on to threaten other countries, right? 127 00:07:45,370 --> 00:07:49,250 S2: Well, there was Venezuela, but now it rolls on at 128 00:07:49,290 --> 00:07:54,090 S2: a bafflingly high rate, from threatening one country to another 129 00:07:54,090 --> 00:07:56,330 S2: and another and the next. There's always it always seems 130 00:07:56,370 --> 00:08:00,170 S2: there's at least one country under threat somehow or another 131 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,320 S2: from Donald Trump, it seems that he has a lot 132 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,560 S2: to distract from some of his actions. A few have 133 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,560 S2: actually been rooted in reality. The last year's strikes in Iran, 134 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,480 S2: for example, conducted by both the US and Israel, were 135 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:21,720 S2: about a real threat, and that was a real thing. However, 136 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:32,080 S2: the Venezuelan mission was based on Confected explanations and justifications. Um, and, 137 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,600 S2: you know, it's not just an individual operation. It's it's 138 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,079 S2: the pace at which he rolls them out. So the day, 139 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,199 S2: the very day that they captured Maduro, the president of Venezuela, 140 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,079 S2: Trump holds a press conference to take credit and talk 141 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,439 S2: talk it up. And at that very press conference, without 142 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,840 S2: having to be asked a question about it, Trump moves 143 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,400 S2: on seamlessly to saying, and now we're going to get Greenland. 144 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,940 S2: What's the urgency? He's still he's still he's still basking 145 00:09:01,940 --> 00:09:04,860 S2: in the afterglow of kidnapping the president of Venezuela and 146 00:09:04,860 --> 00:09:07,140 S2: putting him in handcuffs in a New York jail cell. 147 00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:10,100 S2: Why the urgency now to rush to another one? But 148 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:12,540 S2: that's what we have now. We have Greenland, which, of course, 149 00:09:12,580 --> 00:09:17,939 S2: is a territory of a NATO ally of America's. Denmark. Um, 150 00:09:18,220 --> 00:09:22,179 S2: and but it's rolling on its Cuba. There's always there's 151 00:09:22,220 --> 00:09:29,220 S2: always a list, it seems. Last year, uh, Trump ordered attacks, physical, 152 00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:33,740 S2: kinetic attacks on seven countries. So far, he's threatened another 153 00:09:33,740 --> 00:09:39,700 S2: 11 countries. And the, um, uh, his administration has listed 154 00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:44,700 S2: 19 countries of concern. It's the simple, um, it's the 155 00:09:44,700 --> 00:09:50,939 S2: simple absurdity of the the number, the rapidity, but also 156 00:09:50,980 --> 00:09:55,140 S2: the flimsiness of the pretexts for attacking these countries or 157 00:09:55,140 --> 00:10:00,400 S2: threatening them. Canada. Canada. Does anybody has anybody ever thought 158 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,800 S2: Canada truly was a national security threat to the United States? 159 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,520 S2: It's preposterous. Okay, you asked about Venezuela. So he said 160 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,840 S2: they're bringing fentanyl, this hyper deadly opioid, into the US 161 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,280 S2: on those drug boats. Well, Venezuela is not the source 162 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:24,040 S2: of fentanyl. Um, the main source of fentanyl are precursors 163 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,040 S2: made in China, manufactured into the drug in Mexico and 164 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,160 S2: transshipped from Mexico, not through Venezuela. Later he said, oh, 165 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,040 S2: it's the oil. We want the oil. Well, he came 166 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,920 S2: up with that ex post facto, but, um, he it 167 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,800 S2: was a justification for something he'd already done rather than otherwise. But, um, 168 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,440 S2: the US doesn't need oil anymore. It used to. That 169 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,160 S2: was a powerful animating force in US foreign policy for 170 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,000 S2: more than half a century. It's the reason they signed 171 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,800 S2: an alliance with the Saudis and all the rest of it, 172 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,240 S2: and went to war. Endless times in the Middle East. 173 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,990 S2: But now they are an oil exporter. They have more 174 00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:06,429 S2: oil than they need. They produce 106% equivalent of their needs. 175 00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:09,429 S2: So they don't need the oil. So what's going on? 176 00:11:09,429 --> 00:11:11,550 S1: But there's another country. Of course we need to speak 177 00:11:11,550 --> 00:11:14,710 S1: about that. Donald Trump of course, has threatened. And in 178 00:11:14,710 --> 00:11:18,870 S1: this case it's definitely one where it isn't without reason, perhaps. 179 00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:20,710 S1: And of course I'm talking about Iran here. I mean, 180 00:11:20,750 --> 00:11:23,390 S1: that's a more credible threat, right? He's been he's been 181 00:11:23,390 --> 00:11:26,589 S1: making all kinds of threats against Iran. And we know 182 00:11:26,590 --> 00:11:29,630 S1: this is a real live issue, right? US and Iranian 183 00:11:29,630 --> 00:11:32,470 S1: officials are expected to meet in Tehran on Friday to 184 00:11:32,510 --> 00:11:36,270 S1: discuss Trump's demands issued last month. Trump has raised the 185 00:11:36,270 --> 00:11:39,350 S1: possibility of regime change, he said time is running out, 186 00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:42,069 S1: but he hasn't provided a clear deadline on that. So 187 00:11:42,070 --> 00:11:45,750 S1: tell us what's happening with Iran, Peter, and whether unlike 188 00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:48,590 S1: Greenland and Canada, which, you know, he hasn't sort of 189 00:11:48,910 --> 00:11:51,670 S1: made any military action there, and I don't know how 190 00:11:51,710 --> 00:11:53,910 S1: live an issue that is. But with Iran, it is 191 00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:55,390 S1: a pretty live issue, isn't it? 192 00:11:55,630 --> 00:12:00,090 S2: Yes. Well, he's assembled, uh, US Navy assets off the coast. 193 00:12:00,090 --> 00:12:05,770 S2: And he's made threats, explicit threats. Um, the rationale is 194 00:12:05,770 --> 00:12:12,530 S2: not clear, but Iran is a serious known threat to 195 00:12:12,570 --> 00:12:17,410 S2: its neighbors, and it's the principal sponsor. It has effectively 196 00:12:17,410 --> 00:12:23,770 S2: created and breathed life into Hezbollah, Hamas for decades now. Uh, 197 00:12:24,170 --> 00:12:30,729 S2: given the money, given them arms, given them sanctuary. And, uh, plus, 198 00:12:31,410 --> 00:12:36,330 S2: it's a direct threat militarily, both to Israel. But also 199 00:12:36,370 --> 00:12:39,450 S2: the Saudis consider they don't talk about it, but they 200 00:12:39,450 --> 00:12:42,010 S2: also consider and some of the other Arab states consider 201 00:12:42,050 --> 00:12:45,410 S2: Iran to be a military and security threat to them 202 00:12:45,410 --> 00:12:49,050 S2: as well. So it's a real problem. Uh, I'm not 203 00:12:49,090 --> 00:12:51,890 S2: diminishing that at all. It's just that Trump told us 204 00:12:52,650 --> 00:12:55,370 S2: after the US and Israeli strikes on Iran last year, 205 00:12:55,770 --> 00:12:59,730 S2: that he had wiped out its nuclear weapons program, but 206 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,679 S2: now he says the US needs to go and destroy 207 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,680 S2: their nuclear weapons program if it can't negotiate an end 208 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:13,840 S2: to Iran's nuclear research and reprocessing facilities so that one 209 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:15,840 S2: of they can't both be true. So let's assume Trump 210 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,800 S2: was exaggerating the first time. Let's assume there is credible 211 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:23,960 S2: evidence of of a return to nuclear research with the 212 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,840 S2: potential to make the Iranians insist their research is all 213 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,640 S2: nuclear power, not nuclear weapons. But let's let's assume that 214 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,400 S2: there is an intention. There's certainly a capability to produce 215 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:42,599 S2: nuclear weapons. Well, that's certainly a legitimate cause for Trump. 216 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,440 S1: We know Trump has announced that a US armada was 217 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,520 S1: moving towards the country with great power, enthusiasm and purpose. 218 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,800 S1: This is very recently. And flight tracking data and satellite 219 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,400 S1: imagery actually confirmed that the United States has actually expanded 220 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,720 S1: its military presence in the region. And in recent weeks, 221 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,380 S1: diplomats from Turkey, Egypt, Oman and Iraq have been sharing 222 00:14:02,380 --> 00:14:05,420 S1: messages between Iran and US in a bid to avoid 223 00:14:05,420 --> 00:14:09,100 S1: an escalation. So, I mean, are we under threat here? 224 00:14:09,140 --> 00:14:12,100 S1: I guess for there being a regional escalation, like, are 225 00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:13,900 S1: we sort of reaching some sort of tipping point, or 226 00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:15,900 S1: is this sort of one of these just, you know, 227 00:14:16,260 --> 00:14:21,380 S1: prolonged Trump threats just to, you know, get a tariff 228 00:14:21,380 --> 00:14:22,619 S1: advantage out of somebody? 229 00:14:23,140 --> 00:14:27,180 S2: Yeah, it's hard to know, uh, because Donald Trump will 230 00:14:27,460 --> 00:14:31,300 S2: will sally forth and make a series of threatening noise 231 00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:34,460 S2: and sounds and beat the war drums over one particular 232 00:14:34,460 --> 00:14:38,100 S2: issue or country, and then he'll drop it and only 233 00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:40,420 S2: to return to it weeks or months later. So it's 234 00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:44,660 S2: very difficult. Uh, anybody as mercurial as he is, and 235 00:14:44,660 --> 00:14:49,220 S2: irrational as he is, is simply impossible to know. I 236 00:14:49,220 --> 00:14:54,180 S2: would point out, though, that whenever there's any war going 237 00:14:54,180 --> 00:14:58,780 S2: on in the Middle East, which unfortunately is a near-constant, 238 00:14:59,140 --> 00:15:02,730 S2: there's always the potential for spilling over. There's always the 239 00:15:02,730 --> 00:15:07,850 S2: potential for regional, uh, regional conflagration. Trump says he wants 240 00:15:07,850 --> 00:15:10,090 S2: to get rid of the ayatollahs and change the regime. 241 00:15:10,650 --> 00:15:14,489 S2: If they don't come across with his demands, the demands 242 00:15:14,970 --> 00:15:19,210 S2: which have changed one week to another. Um, he's he's 243 00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:22,050 S2: initially it was about the protesters. You have to stop 244 00:15:22,050 --> 00:15:27,050 S2: killing protesters. It's difficult to believe that Trump is deeply, uh. 245 00:15:29,930 --> 00:15:34,010 S2: Wedded to this high principle. Because when two US citizens 246 00:15:34,010 --> 00:15:37,770 S2: were murdered by his agents in Minnesota, his initial reaction 247 00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:42,489 S2: was to demonize the American citizen protester who was killed 248 00:15:42,770 --> 00:15:47,570 S2: and to justify the Ice agent. So is this a heartfelt, um, 249 00:15:47,970 --> 00:15:51,850 S2: cause for Trump to make war on Iran? No, but 250 00:15:51,850 --> 00:15:54,050 S2: it could be. It could be a handy pretext. The 251 00:15:54,050 --> 00:15:58,729 S2: nuclear research establishment is probably a more realistic and real. 252 00:16:00,670 --> 00:16:05,630 S2: A justification for Trump striking Iran. It's a low cost 253 00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:09,150 S2: operation for the US. In fact, it's a common factor 254 00:16:09,150 --> 00:16:13,670 S2: of all his operations, his military and or even quasi 255 00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:16,750 S2: military operations. There are only countries that don't have the 256 00:16:16,750 --> 00:16:20,990 S2: power to hit back physically at the US. He doesn't 257 00:16:20,990 --> 00:16:24,310 S2: hit countries that can actually harm the US in return. 258 00:16:24,750 --> 00:16:26,590 S1: And I guess, you know, we're talking about a time 259 00:16:26,590 --> 00:16:29,030 S1: when it seems like almost every day there's a new 260 00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:33,390 S1: bombshell article with allegations against Trump that might put him 261 00:16:33,390 --> 00:16:35,830 S1: under increasing pressure. You know, we spoke before about how 262 00:16:35,830 --> 00:16:38,990 S1: his approval rating has absolutely plummeted. And the cost of living, 263 00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:42,430 S1: of course, is absolutely hammering American voters. But, you know, 264 00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:44,350 S1: just 3 or 4 days ago, there was a bombshell 265 00:16:44,350 --> 00:16:46,910 S1: in the Wall Street Journal which revealed that a sheikh 266 00:16:46,910 --> 00:16:50,230 S1: in the UAE bought a secret stake in Trump's cryptocurrency 267 00:16:50,270 --> 00:16:53,950 S1: venture totaling a whopping $500 million. This was on the 268 00:16:53,950 --> 00:16:57,390 S1: eve of Trump's inauguration. And this was only, I think, 269 00:16:57,430 --> 00:17:00,940 S1: months before Trump gave the okay to the UAE to 270 00:17:00,980 --> 00:17:05,580 S1: access 500,000 of America's most advanced AI chips per year, 271 00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:10,100 S1: which the Biden administration had previously blocked over concerns that 272 00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:12,260 S1: this might pose some security risk. You know, these chips 273 00:17:12,260 --> 00:17:15,580 S1: could end up in China. So I guess that also 274 00:17:15,580 --> 00:17:18,980 S1: perhaps is is applying some more heat to Trump that 275 00:17:18,980 --> 00:17:20,700 S1: he may want to deflect from. 276 00:17:21,580 --> 00:17:26,619 S2: Well, yes, he'll have no end of problems, um, to 277 00:17:26,660 --> 00:17:28,700 S2: the nature of government. And I should add, he's not 278 00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:31,780 S2: the first or last president or leader anywhere in the 279 00:17:31,780 --> 00:17:34,780 S2: world to try to deflect attention from a problem by 280 00:17:34,820 --> 00:17:39,900 S2: talking about some other issue, real or confected. But yes, 281 00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:43,020 S2: he has a lot to try to run away from, 282 00:17:43,180 --> 00:17:48,060 S2: hide from, distract from. And over the months ahead, we've seen, well, 283 00:17:48,060 --> 00:17:51,620 S2: we've already seen that one of the mechanisms he uses 284 00:17:51,660 --> 00:17:57,740 S2: is these, uh, unjustified and some, in some cases unjustifiable, uh, 285 00:17:58,260 --> 00:18:05,359 S2: foreign incursions that suddenly become high, urgent priorities. Notably coinciding 286 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,760 S2: with the release dates for Epstein Files. So there are 287 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,280 S2: a lot of countries that are or should be anxious 288 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,760 S2: about how the US might treat them over the next 289 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:22,320 S2: 1011 months. The more problems Trump has, the more he 290 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,440 S2: might decide to take out. Take them out on foreign 291 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,880 S2: countries and really, only Moscow, Beijing and Pyongyang can rest 292 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:29,840 S2: easy about that. 293 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,040 S1: Well, okay, Peter. Well, it's great to have you back. 294 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,960 S1: So as always, thank you so much for your time. 295 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:41,720 S2: Always a pleasure, Samantha. 296 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,719 S1: In other news today, Clive Palmer has backflipped on a 297 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,070 S1: previous denial that he spoke with former Trump strategist Steve 298 00:19:00,109 --> 00:19:04,750 S1: Bannon during the 2019 federal election. But the billionaire mining 299 00:19:04,750 --> 00:19:07,790 S1: magnate maintains he did not collude with the US alt 300 00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:13,629 S1: right figure on his disruptive $80 million advertising campaign. Australians 301 00:19:13,630 --> 00:19:18,110 S1: are accessing a controversial technology that ranks embryos created during 302 00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:22,270 S1: IVF based on disease risk and traits such as intelligence, 303 00:19:22,270 --> 00:19:26,710 S1: height and hair colour. And Tuesday's interest rate rise may 304 00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:30,390 S1: not be enough to bring inflation under control, with economists 305 00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:33,630 S1: warning that the psychological impact of the move may weigh 306 00:19:33,630 --> 00:19:38,790 S1: more heavily than the financial impact. Today's episode was produced 307 00:19:38,790 --> 00:19:42,790 S1: by Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and 308 00:19:42,790 --> 00:19:46,830 S1: our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. 309 00:19:47,150 --> 00:19:50,030 S1: If you like our show, follow the Morning Edition and 310 00:19:50,030 --> 00:19:53,310 S1: leave a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks 311 00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:54,150 S1: for listening.