Speaker 1: So where does it's it? Can you swear at work
Speaker 1: in the workplace? Wonderful? Three eighty two? Is it something
Speaker 1: that happens at your workplace? We'd like to know. Mark
Speaker 1: Brannigan is partner at major law firm Thompson Gear, a
Speaker 1: trading boss wor at worker, and a tribunal has ruled
Speaker 1: that it's not okay.
Speaker 2: No, well, I mean he said, are you He said
Speaker 2: that you can't say that, apparently, and then he went
Speaker 2: on to say, can't say that. So these are words
Speaker 2: that some people might say to each other in the workplace,
Speaker 2: and some people really just go.
Speaker 1: But if I said to you that was good ship
Speaker 1: this morning, If I said that, like, is that the
Speaker 1: point of it?
Speaker 3: Is that allowed? That is that? Really?
Speaker 1: Is that bad?
Speaker 2: So this person said, are you effing serious? You're making
Speaker 2: me angry. So that was enough for the tribunal to
Speaker 2: say the Fair Work Commissions say, can't do that. I
Speaker 2: can't talked to people like that.
Speaker 3: Mark, good morning, Good morning jents. How are you good?
Speaker 2: You work in a profession where it wouldn't be much
Speaker 2: swearing below.
Speaker 3: Well, there's always a bit of colorful language floating around.
Speaker 3: I must submit, But I think that in relation to
Speaker 3: the issue of swearing, it comes down to the context
Speaker 3: in which it's spoken, So it's a question of degree.
Speaker 3: So where we do have people that say, get frustrated
Speaker 3: and drop the occasional expletive, I think that there can
Speaker 3: be some sort of allowance for that, And there's probably
Speaker 3: also the need to take into account the work environment
Speaker 3: and even say the industry or the types of work
Speaker 3: that's being done. So there tends to be that flexibility.
Speaker 3: If you're on say a road maintenance crew that might
Speaker 3: be a bit more earthy than perhaps say a church
Speaker 3: choir gathering, then you know that needs to be taken
Speaker 3: into account. I think the Fairwork Commission has allowed that
Speaker 3: and recognize that in the past. But even so, even
Speaker 3: if there is that sort of swearing, it may be
Speaker 3: necessary to apply some form of discipline if a person,
Speaker 3: say overstepping the mark. I think the question here with
Speaker 3: this case was really where the swearing transformed into abuse
Speaker 3: and that's simply not acceptable.
Speaker 2: Right, But this pite was secretly filmed, so the guy
Speaker 2: that was being abused was filming this person and they
Speaker 2: used it as an evidence against their bosses. That fair guy, Well,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't you tell someone that you're filming them.
Speaker 3: Well, it's there is an issue about secret recording of conversations.
Speaker 3: Each state actually has their own laws relating to that.
Speaker 3: But in this case, the Fair Commission Fairwork Commission agreed
Speaker 3: to allow that evidence in. And yes, that can create
Speaker 3: a problem as to fairness, but I think that putting
Speaker 3: aside the issue about whether or not the recording was
Speaker 3: made properly, I think the issue is if those words
Speaker 3: were made out that you can see how the sort
Speaker 3: of swearing aspect veered into the area of abuse. Because
Speaker 3: part of the issue here that was decided by the
Speaker 3: Fairwork Commission was whether that abuse led to or effectively
Speaker 3: force the employee to resign, which was the case, and
Speaker 3: then did he then have a legal case because he
Speaker 3: had resigned rather than being dismissed. And in this case,
Speaker 3: the Fair Work Commission found in favor of the worker
Speaker 3: against the employer. So it was very much colored by
Speaker 3: the language and the evidence that came out through that
Speaker 3: secret recording.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, there'll be a lot of
Speaker 2: people that'll be worried now because there is quite a
Speaker 2: bit of colorful language in the workplace, But as you say,
Speaker 2: it depends on intent. The fin reviewed believed that there'll
Speaker 2: be plenty of other cases where someone will have a
Speaker 2: crack at someone for unlawful dismissal because of the fact
Speaker 2: that they communicated poorly.
Speaker 3: Well, yes, that's definitely the case. You can also have
Speaker 3: cases made out for bullying, which is in breach of
Speaker 3: the Fair Work Act. You could have language like this
Speaker 3: that could even be seen as sexual harassment. In fact,
Speaker 3: there's provisions in the Sex Discrimination Act prohibit exposing so
Speaker 3: much to a hostile work environment, and that includes such
Speaker 3: things as demeaning and degrading language. So look, the laws
Speaker 3: that sort of surround the workplace now are obviously well
Speaker 3: intentioned with policy to protect people. We all need to
Speaker 3: be in a far more conscious than what might have
Speaker 3: been acceptable, say twenty years ago. Hopefully that does lead
Speaker 3: to a better workplace, but it is a bit of
Speaker 3: a minefield, and certainly any employers, anyone in a business
Speaker 3: where the colorful words are being thrown around, just needs
Speaker 3: to be very very cautious about the impact on others.
Speaker 1: Just for SEB and I, if we picking on someone
Speaker 1: with small feet, Harry knows has botox injected into the
Speaker 1: forehad area? Is there is there any issues with physical appearance,
Speaker 1: like talking like that to our colleagues.
Speaker 3: Well, in fact, they can be another ground of discrimination
Speaker 3: where attributes to include a person's physical appearance. There thank
Speaker 3: you under equal opportunity laws. So there's a lot there.
Speaker 3: And it sounds like your description of some of my colleagues.
Speaker 2: As thank your Branigan their partner at Major Law Thorn.
Speaker 1: You use the language if you don't want to go
Speaker 1: at someone and you use it, or if you just.
Speaker 2: It's totally changed from the time I entered the workforce
Speaker 2: for the time that I am in there, it's totally changed.
Speaker 1: It has, but you can still as we do from
Speaker 1: time to time, we can still use it in a
Speaker 1: in a positive way.
Speaker 2: So if I said to you when you joined our crew, right,
Speaker 2: it's a robust environment. Okay, so you will hear some
Speaker 2: profanity from time to time, don't be offended, don't take
Speaker 2: it personally. Is that enough to exonerate you? Unfortunately, no,
Speaker 2: you know, so if someone does take offense, that's when
Speaker 2: you get into trouble. If no one takes an offense,
Speaker 2: that's but the people can be overhearing conversations. But some
Speaker 2: tire offers who are offended and can lodge a complaint
Speaker 1: But sometimes too I think that if you do the wrong,
Speaker 1: then do the right and admit you made a mistake
Speaker 1: and apologize and go out of your way to make
Speaker 1: sure that you address the issue and try to sort
Speaker 1: it out before it gets to a fair work and
Speaker 1: you force a person out and they have to go
Speaker 1: to the commission to get what they want, or be
Speaker 1: in a position where they feel the need to record
Speaker 1: someone absolutely on