WEBVTT - Afternoons with Michael McLaren - Monday, June 23rd 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:07.440 On two gv AT network stations. This is Afternoons with 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:08.600 Michael McLaren. 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:10.880 It is good to be with you another week, beautiful 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:14.239 day outside. We are conscious of factors happening around the world, 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:15.960 of course, but we are very blessed and lucky to 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:18.239 be living here. One three, one eight seven three is 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.800 our open line number. And take advantage of the democracy 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:22.800 of the open line. One three, one eight seven three. 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.000 Lots to talk about, lots to get our teeth into. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.160 You can text if you like zero six zero eight 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.120 seven three eight seventh three, but you know, talk radio 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:34.760 is meant to be a communication, a conversation between me 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.599 and you, so it's always the open line that takes precedent. Well, 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:40.960 you can email as well, obviously there is just go 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.360 to TGB dot com click on the feedback icon. I'll 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:45.080 have a few words to say in just a moment 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:49.000 about the very significant events, and they are very significant 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:54.720 events over the weekend. The Americans haven't militarily involved themselves 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.920 in Iranian territory since nineteen seventy nine, so the fact 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.280 that that has been happening over the weekend is significant 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.560 in and of itself. But other things are happening I'll 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:07.600 speak later this hour. As I was saying to Mark 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.640 to Tom Ducevich is the policy editor at the Australian 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.959 Rights Well and he had a very interesting article to 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.760 do with the decline in birth rates in Australia. But 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:21.560 this is now becoming a global issue. There are some areas, 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:26.280 parts of Africa, subcontinent, whatever, where having babies are certainly 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.560 still very much the thing. But in many other places, 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.479 certainly in the more productive parts of the world economy, 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:36.840 people are having fewer and fewer children. Now. The South 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.399 Koreans have forgotten how to have babies. I think they 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:42.880 need a bit of a sort of birds and bees lesson. 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.800 They're in soul because they're just not having any. But 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:50.960 in other places, even Italy, Germany, other places in Europe, 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:55.279 the Russians, the population is in decline. If it weren't 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.760 for migration, Japan's a mess in that respect, and if 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:03.520 it weren't for migration going backwards as well. The truth is, 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.880 with no productivity growth, it is only immigration which is 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:12.320 growing the national GDP per capita, there's no growth. In fact, 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:14.480 there's been a recession for I think nine of the 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:19.240 last twelve quarters or something. But for a national GDP figure. 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.799 The growth, unbroken growth is only coming because we are 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:28.799 importing more than we're exporting as far as human capital 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.880 is concerned. Now, that won't go on forever either, and 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.679 even if it does, the quality that comes in might decline. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:39.720 And so we've got to look at this. The whole 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:41.480 world has to look at this. And I said to Mark, 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:43.480 and we've raised this a few times on this show, 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.800 because it's a big issue that needs thinking. Let's just 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.320 assume that some of the boffins, the bright people are 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.720 now right, and by twenty one hundred the global population 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:59.040 reaches its zenith, after which it starts to decline. Even 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.639 Africa and India or aren't going to prop us up. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.360 They're having fewer and fewer by that point. So the 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:09.120 modeling suggests, what does that mean for your superbalance? What 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:14.440 does that mean for how we understand trade? Yeah, I 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.880 mean these are things we've got to consider. The entire 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.760 global stock market system is predicated on more and more 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:24.160 consumers turning up every five minutes. If they don't, and 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:26.280 we can't do anything about productivity, and by that point, 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.000 of course, AI will be running a muck. What does 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.600 that mean for the value of your assets or that 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.919 which you will hand down to your children and your grandchildren. 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.040 What does this mean for government tax? What does this 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.840 mean for all sorts of different things. These are big issues. 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.480 I'm not sure we've yet got the answers. I'll talk 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.480 to Tom Ducevich about that. Michael Pembroke after one o'clock 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.360 a fascinating manner historian and author. You might have known 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.360 his work because years ago, I'm sure I spoke to 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.560 him about his book to do with Arthur Phillipp, credible book. 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.320 When he's got another one out now, it's called Silk, Silver, Opium, 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.160 The trade with China that change history. And if you 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.360 want to understand what's going on in the West China 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.640 relationship at the moment, you've got to understand the Chinese 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.400 perspective as much as the Western perspective. Now, as you know, 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.560 I am not sympathetic in any way to the Chinese 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:15.000 Communist Party or any of their ideology. They are dangerous 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.600 that I've made my points about that very clear a 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.839 million times. But equally, if we want to ride this 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.520 out as best as possible, if we want to avoid 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.320 war with China, and that should be the goal, to 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.760 avoid war with China, because that would be bloody and messy. 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:32.960 They're not Iran, They're a different kettle offici altogether, you 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.640 don't want to be messing with them. So if we 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:39.240 want to avoid it, we've got to understand their point 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.120 of view as well. I'm not sure enough people do. 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:47.960 And part of the Chinese mental position is informed by 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.760 the events from the late eighteen hundreds through to nineteen twelve, 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:53.880 and by nineteen twelve they lost control of their own 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:58.080 sovereignty effectively at the hands of Western traders, Western governments, 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.159 western imperialists. They call it the Great Humiliation. They're not 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.240 going to let that happen again, not without a fight. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.240 And so that's what's informing their positioning. And you look 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:09.400 at a lot of the pinch points at the moment 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.560 South China see Tai one whatever I mean, these were 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:16.920 all critical areas in that decline of the Chinese imperial 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.680 system at the hands of Western traders and Western governments. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.479 Now that's all outlined in this book, Silk Silver Opiu. 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.200 It's a rather beautiful book to look at as well. 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.839 I'll speak to the author after one o'clock. Sam Purcell 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:29.880 will be in for Trent today for drive. Sam does 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.160 wonderful job. So if you've got some questions about your 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.400 motor vehicle one point thirty give us a call. Sam 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.599 Purcell will be here. A Legras spender will join me 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.080 after two o'clock. The Independent for Wentworth the teal. I 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.240 want to talk to Allegra about tax now. To give 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:48.320 her some credit, she was basically the only one talking 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.920 about the need for significant taxation reform leading into the 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.400 last election. It did her campaign no end of good 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:58.640 to talk about that because a lot of people in 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.159 that part of town understand that we need to have 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:06.920 reform and just on tax, just on tax. By chance, 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.640 I suppose, as you know, my uncle passed away mid 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.440 last week and so as a family we've been looking 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.480 at the funeral and you know, you get the funeral 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:18.640 parlor in they discuss what has to happen and this 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:23.760 and that, and you get the summary of costs x 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.120 thousand for a coffin x thousand for the services of 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.920 the undertakers, and you go through and then as one 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:36.040 of the bylines, one of the items itemized figures popped 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.279 up sixty three dollars. They said, what's that? That is 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.400 the New South Wales government clipping the ticket sixty three dollars. 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.880 Now why do they do that? Did you know they 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:51.880 taxed you when you died? They do, And I looked 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.400 it up and this is all justified because they say 0:06:54.440 --> 0:07:01.480 cemeteries and crematory at New South Wales CCNSW, they regulate 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.200 cemeteries and crematoria in the state. They say, our work 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:09.560 is funded by the Internment Services levee. And this is 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.520 a levee. That's a four letter word for tax on 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.960 cemetery and crematoria operators. Now, these people will be paying 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.760 tax anyway, probably payroll tax and company tax and this tax, 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.240 and they'll be paying tax right. But on top there's 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:29.760 a levee which you give posthumously or your descendants do. 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.080 And for a cremation it's forty one dollars. For an 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.920 ash internment, it's sixty three. For a burial, it's one 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.720 hundred and fifty six dollars. You can't avoid it tax 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.840 and you're dead. I mean, this is the we are 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.200 taxed left, right and center. We have discussed not that 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.280 long ago, these parking levees, you know, they call it 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:54.560 the parking space levee. And there's taxes applied to the CBD, 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.720 North Sydney, Saint Leonard's, Crow's Nest, Paramatta and I think 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:02.240 somewhere else again and Dijunction. Why because they can they can, 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.920 and so they bung these taxes on the people that 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.559 operate parking facilities. They then have to pass that cost 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.160 on to you the user. And in part that's why 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:12.840 when you go into the city and you want to park, 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:14.559 it's eighty three dollars for an hour and a half 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.480 because the operators they've got to make a profit. They're 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.520 not charity, but equally they've got to pay the tax 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.360 per spot per annon to the state government. Now, what 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.520 does the state government do to improve the quality of 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.640 the car park or secure the cars in there? They 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:33.760 do nothing nothing. They just take the money. Right, And 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.680 these are the same polukahs that's straight face down the 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.040 line of the barel of the camera. We're doing everything 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:42.280 we can to help with your costal living pressures. Look, 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.160 the more you look into it, the more you realize 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.800 they're lying out the side of their mouth and they 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.199 clip it left, right and center. There's a report today 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.160 in the Australian. This is coming out of the Australian 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.440 Industry group that if you're in business in this country, 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.440 you're being hit with more than one hundred federal and 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.880 state government imposed taxes and levies. Who'd run a business 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.320 who could be bothered when you're being belted by up 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:10.520 to one hundred different federal and state government taxes and levies, 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:13.719 And they say here it makes the effective tax rate 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.640 now the second highest among the OECD, only behind Columbia. 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.319 And as the article went on to say, when state 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.600 government and other micro taxes imposed on small, medium, and 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:28.240 large scale businesses are factored in, it's now estimated that 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.760 the total tax revenue collected by state and federal jurisdictions 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:36.719 is actually close to three hundred billion dollars a year. Now, 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.200 that's considerably higher than the headline figure for company tax 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.960 of one hundred and forty four billion a year stealth taxes. 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.120 And they wonder why a lot of businesses are going broke. 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:49.560 Not rocket science. So we'll look at all of that 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:57.800 with a legal spender after two o'clock, almost twenty past twelve. Well, 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:59.840 for a few months now, the trader's on Wall Street 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:02.880 of I've been throwing around that term taco taco, as 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.480 it turns out as an acronym, and it's short for 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:09.480 Trump always chickens out, the theory being that the president 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:11.840 talks a big game lob's idle threats, but then gets 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.520 cold feet and backs down when the going gets tough. Well, 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.760 some have been positioning their trades accordingly, hedging that under 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:24.720 Trump the status quo will eventually prevail. However, after a 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.240 set of American B two bombers drop six thirty thousand 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:32.080 pound bunker busters on Iran's fourd hour nuclear enrichment facility, 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.360 I think the boys on Wall Street might need to 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.080 look for a different theory. As we said on the 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.520 show last week, it was very unlikely that Israel and 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.680 the United States would settle on diplomacy this time around. 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:47.920 Certainly Israel America entering the conflict in spectacular fashion. Well 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:49.920 that's short to grab the headlines. But it's been the 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:53.800 IDF and Mossad that have softened up Tehran and put 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.679 the Mullers on the back foot. The Americans have then 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.320 come in like a heavyweight fighter and delivered an enormous 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.480 right hook to the regime. It's now on the canvas 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.240 and I think the referees counting to ten now Israel's 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:11.520 determination to crush Hamas and Hezbolla removed Iran's front line. 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.880 Their opportunistic strikes on Syrian military installations with the fall 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:20.559 of a Sad further weakened Iran's proxy military machine waves 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.679 of targeted assassinations, exploding pages who could forget them, and 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.359 then strategic aerial bombardment of Iranian missile and nuclear facilities, 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.160 not to mention arms of government like the State TV 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.920 channel have just bludgeoned the Islamic Republic into a corner. 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.080 All of a sudden. The Iotola looks very mortal, indeed, 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.920 and his regime is virtually without leverage, and it's in 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.839 survival mode. As Trump said in his address to the 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.679 Nation yesterday, quote, Iran must now make peace. If they 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.000 do not, future attacks will be far greater and a 0:11:55.040 --> 0:12:00.920 lot easier. The Iotola himself is a potential target. Despite 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:05.240 the reputation, Trump isn't an isolationist. What the Mullers and 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.800 I think much of the commentary misunderstand is that his 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.520 America First ideology is open to precision and lethal strikes 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:14.960 on enemies abroad. He authorized such in his first term. 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.480 What they don't countenance, though, in America First, is the 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.720 United States being dragged into lengthy foreign wars in far 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.120 away locations. So look, don't expect to see American boots 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.840 on the ground in Tehran anytime soon. But equally, don't 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.680 think that he won't approve that is Trump additional rounds 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.080 of military intervention in the weeks ahead. If Iran doesn't 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.560 come to the table with a plan that involves the 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:42.840 complete dismantling of their domestic nuclear capacity and regime change, 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.040 then Israel and America will pound them until they do. 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.240 And interestingly, for all the talk in the Middle East 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.840 of Israel being the great Satan, just watch how few 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:58.559 Arab states actually protest any of this. Of course, Australia's 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.760 view on what's happening is vers virtually irrelevant, governed as 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:03.559 we are by people that just don't seem to grasp 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.080 the bigger picture. But it was telling that whilst the 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:10.679 official reactions from Britain and even the EU tacitly endorsed 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:15.520 the American intervention by reiterating without qualification that Iran must 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.559 never be able to develop a nuclear weapon, we offered 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.320 a dripping, wet rhetorical fur ball of diplomatic nothingness that 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.640 read and I quote the security situation in the region 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.480 is highly volatile, and we continue to call for de escalation, dialogue, 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:35.240 and diplomacy. As I said, irrelevant. Whilst the Israelis and 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:39.640 the Americans drop ordinance, we drop some alliteration. But with 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.360 all of that said, I guess the question turns to 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:45.199 what next, what next? And this is where the Americans 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.240 have let themselves down in the past, especially in the 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.559 Middle East. Getting Sadam was the easy part, likewise scuttling 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.160 the Taliban from Kabul. But winning the peace, well, that's 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.000 a whole other ball game. And if the Americans learnt 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.400 anything from both Iraq and Afghanistan, it should have been 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.880 that you can't just impose democracy on a country. Rather, 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:07.720 it has to flourish from within. It's got to be 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.600 fertilized and incubated from within. And the Iranian people are 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:16.640 wary of Western intervention in their domestic political affairs. After all, 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:18.920 they had a sort of democracy back in the nineteen 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.040 fifties and it paved the way for a fellow called 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:25.080 Muhammad Mosaday to become the prime minister. Now, the only 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.080 problem for the British in the United States was that 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.840 Mossiday didn't get the memo that under no circumstances was 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.080 he to interfere with their tidy little earner, the Anglo 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:38.520 Iranian Oil Company today we call it BP. So when 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.760 he nationalized Iran's vast oil assets in nineteen fifty one, 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:46.360 MI six and the CIA launched Operation Ajax with the 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:48.800 support of the army, they stirred up street mobs, and 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.040 by nineteen fifty three the kup Datar was complete. Mossiday 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.080 was sent to prison, the Shah took control, but the 0:14:55.080 --> 0:15:01.600 seeds of the Islamic Revolution were simultaneously sown. Fast forward 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.120 some seventy two years, and now it's the revolutionary's turn 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:09.480 to perhaps face revolution. Waiting in the wings somewhere in 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.840 the United States is Reziplavi, the son of the exiled Shah. 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.520 Other candidates to await the tap on the shoulder to 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.840 replace the Iotola and the Revolutionary Guard should the military 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:23.080 abandon them. Some reports suggest as few as fifteen percent 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:27.800 of the Iranian populace actually support the current leadership fifteen percent. 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.120 The average Iranian enjoys an equivalent standard of living as 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.040 a person on Vanuatu, with a per capita GDP of 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:38.120 just seven thousand dollars sanctions have hurt the economy, Oppressive 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.720 theocratic dogmas have held back innovation and freedom. In other words, 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:46.960 all the ingredients are there to spark an uprising. However, 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.320 a proud people with great history will be very aware 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:53.360 that although the Israelian American militaries have smashed the Iyatola's 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:59.160 ability to project power externally, they haven't completely crippled his 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:04.720 henchman's capa to project power internally. And in two thousand 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.960 and nine and again in twenty twenty one, huge protests 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:12.280 swept Iran people calling for change. On both occasions, the 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.600 regime deployed force and they held on. And although there 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:18.960 is absolutely no doubt this time they are at their 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:23.440 weakest within Iran itself, the regime still holds the whip hand, 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.920 albeit tenuously. Shaye Grivara knew a thing or two about 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.960 regime change, and he once famously said, a revolution is 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.360 not an apple that falls when it's ripe, rather that 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.760 you have to make it fall. In the case of Iran, 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.560 the apple is certainly ripe. Trump's even just hit it 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.400 with a squirt of glyphosate. But it's the Iranians themselves. 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:49.480 He'll have to shake it from the tree. So that's 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.400 all going on. It's a rather busy and heavy news cycle. 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.080 We'll cover it all as best as we can for you, 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.440 thinking for the feedback coming through. But of course some 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.720 people are sort of they're living on the same planet 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:01.960 as us, but they're just in another realm, you know, 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.080 and maybe it's nice where they are. Casein point, the 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.320 story that was presented to me this morning by Brianna 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.760 concerning the artistic community in Tasmania, which I think is 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:15.200 rather populated, and it says here a Tasmanian museum owner 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.840 has created the world's first animal pooh painting competition because 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.399 she's passionate about destigmatizing feces, but she also likes to 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.359 have fun, right, So this is what I mean. You know, 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.399 like there are certain you know, the bulk of the 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.320 news cycle. The average person who's half tuned in, you know, 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.840 they're seeing bombs drop on Iran and bunker busters and 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.679 beaters and all these names like four Doah and is 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.200 Fahan and mean nothing to us all of a sudden, irrelevant. Yeah, 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:47.119 down on the Apple aisle, they're down to the Apple 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:53.280 They've got artists painting with animal pooh. As Joel says, 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.800 a real life artist. Yes, well, that's probably quite right anyway. 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.359 Her name is Karen Kosh and she's the c beator 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.680 and owner of Poosium, a primarily science museum. I think 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.440 that's near Richmond from memory, Richmond, which is a nice 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.960 town in Tasmania. Anyway. Last year she invited artists to 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:14.040 submit works made with animal pooh in her inaugural competition 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.199 called poo Tastic Tasmanian paid off with a two thousand 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:24.400 dollar prize on offer for the winner. You know, yeah, 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.960 it's not quite the archibals, but you know it will 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.000 get there eventually. After a successful first year, the contest 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.879 has returned this year, asking artists to paint expressive portraits 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.600 made with animal pooh. Oh. Here's a photo of Karen Oh. Yes, 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:44.920 okay anyway. A commissioned portrait of a former politician and environmentalist, 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:50.960 Bob Brown, painted with pandomelon droppings, provided inspiration for aspiring 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.239 pooh artists. What Bob thought of that? I mean, it's 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.960 terribly you'd say upcycling, which would be a big thing 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:04.720 in his ideology. Anyway, So that's going on down in Tasmania. 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:09.520 You can escape the horrors of the world you've just 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.000 got to go to Richmond in Tasmania and a channel 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.040 You're inner artist one three one eight seven three. Okay, Now, 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:17.560 just while we was speaking about dogs, this is a 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:23.040 more serious issue because just as autism diagnoses of skyrocketed 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.720 among people young people, particularly in the NDIS, and the 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.680 way it's funded is obviously behind that, but it appears 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:34.800 behavioral diagnoses have bloomed among dogs and pets in general 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.760 almost simultaneously. Now I don't have a dog, so you know, 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:45.440 I understand some dogs have mental health disorders, so they're 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:49.720 depressed or something, and there is medication for that, but 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.040 it's the quantity of diagnoses which seems to all of 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.760 a sudden be a little concerning. Now, what I want 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.960 to know is what's going on? What's going on? Have 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.800 dogs in general always had a lot of these issues 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.800 and they're just not being diagnosed the medications new and innovative. 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.199 I mean they give them prozac that's hardly new. Or 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:13.000 is there something else going on here? Are we over 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:18.040 subscribing because the humans, Yeah, the owners, let's be honest, 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:24.920 aren't effectively and properly conditioning and training their dogs, or 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.400 they're getting dogs, but they work you know, seven days 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:30.200 a week or six days a week out of home, 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.199 and so the dogs alone and it gets skittish. And 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.919 what's the real story here? Right? Are we creating the problem? 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.320 Are we over diagnosing a problem? Or is there a 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:41.120 genuine issue among a lot of dogs. So I've got 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:43.560 no idea, but plenty of you have pet dogs, any 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.280 of them on these antidepressants. Tell me the story one three, one, 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.479 eight seven three. So the ABC report that this all 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.600 comes about the story of a dog called Mabel, and 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.600 Mabel's one of these tiny little fluffings, and it says 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.640 he one of many dogs on medication called Fluoxeity. It's 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.440 a type of antidepressant. It's sold under the brand name Prozac, 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.160 which I think everyone knows about. As it says, some 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.080 vets only get a fifteen minute appointment. However, to make 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:14.359 the decision to prescribe. Now, in the human realm, I 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:15.920 don't think too many doctors will be that keen to 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.919 put people onto zolaf or something with a fifteen minute consultation. 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:23.200 You tend to have a little bit we should, I think, 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:24.920 have a bit more of a backstory to work out 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:28.679 whether someone needs medicating or they need something else. But 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.520 it seems that some vets in and out. You know, 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:35.400 the old six minute medicine which is afflicting the PBS, 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.800 seems to be an issue with vets. Some yeah, okay, 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:42.360 dog's got a depression here. Given this, as they say 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:44.800 in the story, it's creating concerns from some in the 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.080 industry about just how many dogs are going onto anti 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:51.720 anxiety medication as a first line treatment, not as a 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.920 last resort. A study, and this came out of America. 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.439 It looks at Melily in fact, looked at millions of 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.840 canine medical records from twenty ten to twenty twenty, so 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:05.359 a ten year period found over that decade a tenfold 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:11.200 increase in behavioral problems and an increase in antidepressant medication 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.040 to boot. Now, you know, I don't know who makes 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:15.960 it as a BAY or I don't know someone makes 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.199 these sort of medications. They'll be doing very nicely out 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.600 of it. But it's a justified in these sort of 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.880 quantities and scales. Now, some Australian vets now say they've 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.680 seen an increase in dogs at their clinics with behavioral issues. 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:32.840 So we're talking abot aggression, separation, anxiety, as well as 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.520 problematic behaviors. But in Australia we don't seem to collect 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.080 too much data. There's a shock and so we don't 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:45.080 really know via the Australian Vetery Association whether there is 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.760 a significant rise in the use of these antidepressants in 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.280 dogs or not. But there is an Australian pet pharmacy 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:56.960 group called your Pet PA and they listed fluoxetine on 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:01.480 the website the Prozac as the third best selling prescription 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:05.359 medication for the dogs. It gives you a bit of 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:08.520 a sense. Now, I think antidepressants are the top sellers 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:11.960 for humans. It doesn't look like it's going to be 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:14.560 too long before they're the top seller for dogs, now, 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:17.359 is it? Ok? Maybe it's justified cats. I know some 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:19.200 cats have been on these things for years to do. 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:23.040 I'm not saying they shouldn't be prescribed, but do you 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:26.639 think somewhere, somehow alarm bells should be going off a 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:28.439 little bit. If you've seen in a decade over an 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:32.320 American and we followed the trends here a ten time increase, 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:36.720 tenfold increase, you know, I mean cause and effect. What's 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:40.960 going on here? You know, if it were happening with humans. 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:43.240 You'd think we'd have an inquiry, but there again, it 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:45.480 is happening with humans, but I'm not sure we have 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:50.399 had those inquiries. One three, one eight seven three. Okay, 0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:53.200 it's nineteen to one. Lot of feedback coming through, particularly 0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:55.560 about the poop painting. So my next guest has no 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:57.560 idea what we're talking about. I'll explain to Tommy just 0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:00.600 a moment. But Mitch says, do any of the paint 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:02.159 Winnie the Pooh? 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:02.760 I don't know. 0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:05.919 Good question. Mitch Brett says, where would you hang your 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:11.640 Pooh painting in the outhouse? I don't know if he's 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:14.360 a for sale, just quietly, but a few people suggesting, 0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:17.399 everyone alone of Jackson Pollock. I understand that. Thank you. 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:20.400 One three, one eight seven three. Keep it coming. Now, 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:23.280 Australia's population we touched on this off the very top 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:26.399 of the show. Several issues. We've outlined them numerous times 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.840 in the past. We could talk about the staggering population 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.919 growth that we've seen through mass migration recently, or we 0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:35.359 could look at the fact that fundamentally people are aging 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:37.920 more older people than younger ones had has an impact 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:41.760 on tax and redistribution and whatnot. But going hand in 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:46.400 hand with all of that is the declining rate of fertility. Now. 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.480 I think Australia is now down to about one point 0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:51.960 seven or something like that, when the replacement rate is 0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:54.800 two point one. In fact, we might even be lower. 0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:58.679 And if it weren't for migration, GDP not per capita 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.680 that's already in the toilet, but GDP for the nation 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:05.359 would be in reverse. We would be in without a doubt, 0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:11.320 we would be in a recession. So what's going on 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:15.000 globally because clearly our economic model at the moment is 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:17.800 one where we're not having enough babies to replace ourselves, 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:21.600 but we're importing the surplus babies of somewhere else. People 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:23.400 that say Australia is a better place where I'm living 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:25.119 better opportunities, I'm going to bring my family, We're going 0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:28.160 to start a new life and wait. So the migrant 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:30.679 waves come, they tend to have more children initially, but 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:34.400 as they build into the Australian way of life, they 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:37.320 don't only just start supporting Australian football teams and get 0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:39.520 a taste for cricket, they also, over time, it seems, 0:25:39.520 --> 0:25:43.720 get a taste having fewer children themselves. And internationally this 0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:46.040 is now a phenomena. By twenty one hundred, it is 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:50.679 expected that the global population global population will have peaked 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:54.560 and will start to go into decline reverse. So I 0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:56.520 said to Mark leave earlier. Just think about that from 0:25:56.520 --> 0:25:58.359 a selfish point of view, what does that mean for 0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:01.960 your superbalance? A macroeconomic point of view, what on earth 0:26:01.960 --> 0:26:04.640 does that mean for the way we understand modern economics, 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:08.359 the stock market and every pillar that we have built 0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:13.320 our wealth on. Fewer consumers. It's not something that anyone 0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:16.640 alive today or indeed for many generations, has ever had 0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:20.240 to countenance. So what's the story at home? Well? Tom 0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:22.880 Duseovich has written brilliantly about all of this in The Australian. 0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:25.200 Is the policy editor there, and he's on the line, Tom, 0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:26.879 good to speak with you. Thank you for your time. 0:26:27.480 --> 0:26:28.600 Good to catch up, Michael. 0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:32.480 We're having fewer kids. Clearly the TV isn't on the 0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:34.840 blink like it was in the sixties. But what are 0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:36.600 we going to do about it? Should we do anything? 0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:42.040 There doesn't seem to be a lot of urgency about it. 0:26:42.160 --> 0:26:47.679 In Australia our fertility rates slipped to one point five. 0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:52.400 That's the sort of lowest we've ever had since records 0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:57.280 have been kept. In the fifties and sixties, you know, 0:26:57.600 --> 0:27:01.240 each each woman was having about three and a half 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:07.359 or certainly somewhere between three and three and a half children. 0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:13.479 And then for a whole range of reasons, probably to 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:17.560 do with women's increased participation in the labor market, the 0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:20.919 really high cost of having children, the high cost of 0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:26.480 housing that started to plummet, and it's plummeted all over 0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:30.240 the world. I mean, we haven't experienced the sort of 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:36.879 declines that they have in Japan. Korea. Careerslevy rate is 0:27:36.960 --> 0:27:40.960 zero point seven, so that's a third of the replacement rate. 0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:46.040 Our population isn't falling because essentially you need two point 0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:50.320 one to keep the population growing, and pretty much eighty 0:27:50.359 --> 0:27:55.359 percent of our population growth is due to migration. Typically 0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:59.480 there's younger people, not whole families that are coming here. 0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:06.160 Bically are people converting from student or work visus temporary 0:28:06.240 --> 0:28:09.160 work visus, and so they tend to be in their 0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:14.480 twenties or thereabouts. It sort of stops your population aging 0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:17.640 for a while. But then you know, our migrants get 0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:20.880 older as well, so you know, we're in this sort 0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:26.080 of delicate position now where our population is aging and 0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:28.200 our fertility rate is falling. 0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:30.280 You're right in your piece of the collapse in the 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:34.000 birth rate is unmistakable, but maybe it's also unstoppable now. 0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:36.600 Of course, Peter Costello, when we had money in the bank, 0:28:36.680 --> 0:28:38.680 tried to do something about this. One for mom, one 0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:41.440 for dad, one for the country. We don't have money 0:28:41.440 --> 0:28:43.520 in the bank anymore, and that didn't really work out 0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:46.280 that well either. I mean, I don't want to broad 0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:48.920 brushes too much, but in some respects, many of the 0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:51.800 wrong people were having the additional children, and the ones 0:28:51.800 --> 0:28:54.920 that were productive, paying high taxes and whatever weren't taking 0:28:54.960 --> 0:28:58.240 the bait. So what does the nation? What can the 0:28:58.320 --> 0:29:00.040 nation do about it? 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:04.320 You've got to do it on a multi pronged approach. 0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:08.760 Some of those things. You know, the Prime Minister is 0:29:08.880 --> 0:29:13.920 very keen on universal childcare, so clearly that's one element 0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:17.440 of it. Clearly, women want to work, they want to 0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:22.400 do well in the labor market. They have higher rates 0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:26.000 of education than men do, so we want to make 0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:29.600 sure that those opportunities are available, particularly to get our 0:29:29.680 --> 0:29:34.440 productivity up as well. So on that front, we need 0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:38.840 blokes helping more with child rearing and doing more work 0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:43.040 at home. We need more housing, so the cost of 0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:49.000 housing isn't so prohibitive, and you know, we need to 0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:53.160 try and help people with the costs of raising kids. 0:29:53.520 --> 0:29:56.000 So this is an economic issue. But basically you're saying, 0:29:56.080 --> 0:29:58.680 it's not that people aren't attracted to each other anymore. 0:29:58.720 --> 0:30:00.640 It's not that they have lost the birds and the 0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:04.640 beeze lesson from you eight. It's simply economically. They say, well, look, 0:30:04.720 --> 0:30:06.880 if we want to buy a house in Sidney or Melbourne, 0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:09.240 and we want to have a car, and we want 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:12.000 to once in a lifetime or twice head over to 0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:16.080 London and see the palace, we can only afford one 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:20.000 point four children. Otherwise we just can't make it happen. 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:24.400 Well, that's part of the story. It certainly is, you know, 0:30:24.520 --> 0:30:28.160 the prohibitive cost, a very high cost of having children 0:30:28.800 --> 0:30:32.480 is you know, research tells us the number one factor. 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:35.880 There's also another thing going on. I kind of tend 0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:38.680 to look at things through an economic and political lens. 0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:42.760 But like you, if you look at what's happening in society, 0:30:42.920 --> 0:30:45.440 there are a lot of you know, really smart people 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:51.400 who are now starting to assess what the effect of 0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:55.560 the Internet and smartphones has been not only on the 0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:59.960 mental health of young people, as is increasingly being documented 0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:06.320 through social psychologists and the like, but this is growing 0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:12.440 concern that young people have forgotten how to socialize. It's 0:31:12.520 --> 0:31:16.240 too easy to sit at home, you know, get food 0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:21.400 delivered in, watch Netflix or beyond sort of social chats 0:31:21.520 --> 0:31:24.560 or whatnot, and rather than going out and meeting people, 0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:30.000 you know, partnering up being an attractive proposition. Men and 0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:35.200 women are sort of letting that split by the number 0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:39.200 of childless women, I saw one study that said it 0:31:39.320 --> 0:31:42.280 used to be around about eight to ten percent of 0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:45.960 women were childless over the course of their lifetime. Now 0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:49.600 that's crept up to about thirty to thirty five percent. 0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:51.280 A lot of. 0:31:51.280 --> 0:31:54.200 Women are looking. A lot of women are very well educated, 0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:59.280 earning really high incomes, and they're kind of thinking, well, 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:02.800 you know, the market out there, those blokes aren't that attractive. 0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:04.280 You know. 0:32:04.680 --> 0:32:10.360 It's they're not dressing up, they're not going out, they're 0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:12.520 sort of they're not very well socialized. 0:32:12.520 --> 0:32:14.640 Well, they should be hanging around the offices of the Australian. 0:32:14.680 --> 0:32:16.480 We're all the handsome men hang out right tom but 0:32:17.240 --> 0:32:18.960 down there at Holt Street to wherever you guys are. 0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:25.000 But you see, there's an issue economically here, because maybe 0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:27.480 this will all just self correct. You know, nature has 0:32:27.480 --> 0:32:32.160 a way of recalibrating the meter when necessary. There's no 0:32:32.200 --> 0:32:34.560 doubt that the rate of population growth the last century 0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:37.160 has been ridiculously high, and that can't go on forever. 0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:40.360 We will simply out resource ourselves. But if it were 0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:42.560 to stop at say twenty one hundred, as a lot 0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:44.760 of the models suggest, and start to tape it down, 0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:46.400 what does that mean? 0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:46.520 For? 0:32:46.640 --> 0:32:49.080 As I said earlier, our superannuation balance is the broader 0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:52.240 economic story, the way we understand markets and trader because 0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:54.560 the whole thing isn't it. Essentially the whole market is 0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:58.200 a Ponzi scheme. It's predicated off more people buying the 0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:01.800 goods that certain producers put out to market, and that's 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:04.640 where the share price is factored in. So if all 0:33:04.680 --> 0:33:07.000 of a sudden there's fewer consumers and then fewer again 0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:10.000 and fewer again, and Western nations which have been this 0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:12.280 sort of honey pot, aren't going to be able to 0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:15.120 attract people from Africa from the subcontinent because they're not 0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:17.920 there to attract, or if they are, will be depleting 0:33:17.960 --> 0:33:22.320 their own populations. The whole economic model is going to 0:33:22.320 --> 0:33:23.280 be blown up, isn't it. 0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:28.240 There's a whole lot of different things going on. You know, 0:33:28.440 --> 0:33:31.040 you've got to sort of think. Look, one of the 0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:34.440 studies I have looked at, one of the economists and 0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:39.640 the American economists said population may peak in twenty fifty five. 0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:43.120 That's thirty years away. And he says something like, in 0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:47.880 the course of human recorded history sixty thousand years, neither 0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:52.680 wars nor pandemics have ever produced a fall in the 0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:57.120 global population. Look, there are some things going on here, 0:33:57.480 --> 0:34:02.200 like inheritances. You know, as a baby boom generation dies 0:34:02.280 --> 0:34:05.760 off all over the world, someone is going to be 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:10.640 inheriting that wealth. We're relying on all sorts of technologies 0:34:10.719 --> 0:34:15.000 to raise our ability to produce things to give ourselves 0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:19.839 more leisure time, higher incomes. What we're also seeing is, 0:34:20.239 --> 0:34:23.719 you know, in a lot of countries that you know 0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:27.400 that haven't been doing well, we have very very high populations, 0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:32.120 but they're not big consumers just yet. Whether we're we're 0:34:32.120 --> 0:34:35.720 looking at you know, there's been this tremendous rise in China, 0:34:35.800 --> 0:34:38.960 for instance. We're going to have a tremendous rise in Indonesia, 0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:43.680 in India, Sub Saharan Africa. So you know, on a 0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:48.520 long on a long curve of history, things just might 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:52.160 kind of recalibrate, but it'll be a huge test for 0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:56.640 the capitalist system, which is geared towards more and more 0:34:56.680 --> 0:34:57.120 and more. 0:34:57.239 --> 0:34:59.400 That's right. We'll have to look at growth through a 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:01.879 different prison. As sort of a semi student of history. 0:35:01.920 --> 0:35:04.600 Look at what happened with Rome at one point when 0:35:04.719 --> 0:35:06.920 Rome itself got down to a population of tens of 0:35:06.920 --> 0:35:09.040 thousands from the height of a million odd at the 0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:11.960 height of the empire. You've got a sense of decline. 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:14.720 Ever since, it's grown again, and so is the economy 0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:16.560 with it. So these things often go hand in glove. 0:35:16.680 --> 0:35:19.439 It's fascinating to speak. We haven't exhausted it, but we'll 0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:20.480 return to it down the track. 0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:22.759 Thank you, Tom Jowell, Michael, thank you. 0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:26.000 Well, there's Tom Ducovich's policy editor at the Oars. James 0:35:26.080 --> 0:35:27.600 rather makes a good point of the text is with 0:35:27.640 --> 0:35:29.120 all of that, don't forget all the kids that have 0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:32.120 been brainwashed into believing the world's on the verge of apocalypse, 0:35:32.120 --> 0:35:35.120 and they've chosen not to bring children up for that reason. 0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:37.520 It's a stute observation all right, Stay with this news 0:35:37.560 --> 0:35:39.799 this next beautiful day outside, enjoy it if you can. 0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:42.200 I'll be joined straight after the news by Michael Pembroke, 0:35:42.280 --> 0:35:46.000 author in his story in new book out Silk, Silver, Opium, 0:35:46.320 --> 0:35:49.160 The Trade with China That Changed History. It's a book 0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:51.240 about history, but it's very relevant to the present. 0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:58.080 Now onto gb and network stations, back to afternoons with 0:35:58.280 --> 0:35:59.839 Michael McLaren. 0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:03.080 Where with war brewing again in the Middle East, the 0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:07.480 focus of geopolitical attention that shifted away from China and Taiwan, 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:10.520 even for just a moment. But it wasn't that long 0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:14.920 ago that the West was preoccupied with the threat of China. 0:36:15.080 --> 0:36:18.759 As they built their military and naval might, their economy grew, 0:36:19.239 --> 0:36:21.880 the balance of power between China and the United States 0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:26.040 continued to shift and in China's favor, and for many analysts, war, 0:36:26.239 --> 0:36:30.080 even with our greatest trading partner, seems inevitable, not a 0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:33.040 matter of if but when. Now, of course that may 0:36:33.080 --> 0:36:36.319 not happen, but history does have a pattern, a way 0:36:36.360 --> 0:36:39.359 of repeating itself. And if you refer to this book 0:36:39.400 --> 0:36:41.440 that I've got in front of me, it's titled Silk, 0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:45.560 Silver and Opium, The Trade with China, the change history. 0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:48.200 You do get a little bit of a sense of history. 0:36:48.360 --> 0:36:52.280 Repeating Michael Pembroke is the author. It's an incredible read, 0:36:52.920 --> 0:36:55.759 but I think it very much informs the situation of 0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:58.680 the present by anchoring it in the stories of the past. 0:36:59.000 --> 0:37:01.480 And Michael Pembroke with me in the studio. Good to 0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:03.320 speak with you, Michael, and thank you for coming. 0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:05.040 Aain, Hello Michael, nice to be here. 0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:08.319 As the title suggests, silk, silver and opium, and you 0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:10.960 write this in the prologue to the book represent the 0:37:11.040 --> 0:37:14.680 highs and lows of the old China trade. Its beginning, 0:37:15.160 --> 0:37:18.200 its middle, and the end. So the beginning is silk, 0:37:18.280 --> 0:37:21.759 the middle is silver, the end opium. 0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:24.000 Yeah, very sad, very sad. 0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:24.319 Ending. 0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:26.560 Well, the story of silk. They goes back to the 0:37:26.640 --> 0:37:28.240 Roman Empire, doesn't it with the Chinese. 0:37:28.320 --> 0:37:28.480 Yes. 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:32.719 So Augustus was the first Roman emperor and he came 0:37:32.760 --> 0:37:38.879 to power in about twenty seven BC, and he had 0:37:39.040 --> 0:37:44.480 just defeated Cleopatra and Antony a quiet Egypt. The riches 0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:47.920 of Egypt came to the Roman Empire. The people of 0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:52.040 Rome became wealthy beyond their dreams, and they wanted all 0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:57.240 the delights and delicacies and exotic products of the East, 0:37:57.960 --> 0:38:01.560 and the trade boomed not just across land, but through 0:38:01.600 --> 0:38:05.319 the Red Sea and around to India, which connected up 0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:07.840 to the west of China. 0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:12.640 So China is expanding westward, Rome eastward, Yes, Persia, I 0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:15.120 suppose as the folkrim in the middle, and through that 0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:18.240 the trade continues exactly. Yes, Okay, So they get hooked 0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:21.480 on silk. I guess, having read your book, Chinese silk 0:38:21.640 --> 0:38:23.800 was for the Romans a little bit like what Chinese 0:38:23.800 --> 0:38:26.640 manufacturing and goods are for us today. They were the 0:38:27.160 --> 0:38:29.040 commodities that you had to have, and they were the 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:29.880 be all on the endoor. 0:38:30.080 --> 0:38:31.799 Well, they were the bee all on the end or, 0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:35.400 but they were different in this sense. Nothing like silk 0:38:35.520 --> 0:38:40.800 was known to the Romans. They knew wool, they knew furs, 0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:45.400 they knew rough materials that the peasants. 0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:46.719 Wore because Indian cotton hadn't come in. 0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:49.239 It was too early for Indian cotton. So this was 0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:54.239 unlike anything else Linen they knew. And when Augustus introduced 0:38:54.640 --> 0:38:58.480 the trade in silk, the people were just amazed. They'd 0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:03.920 never seen such fine cloth, such beautiful colors, and the 0:39:03.960 --> 0:39:07.200 women went crazy and so did some of the men. 0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:10.640 It's funny actually jumping around here a little bit. Well, 0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:12.440 I was going to the end here, but it's funny 0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:14.799 how women play very central role in the story of 0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:16.799 the Western China. When you think about the wives of 0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:20.839 the traders of the factories down in Canton, and how 0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:23.680 that was a pretext for war, and we'll get to 0:39:23.760 --> 0:39:25.839 that at a second. They do play a prominent role. 0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:28.960 We think of modern China as the manufacturing powerhouse of 0:39:29.000 --> 0:39:31.720 the world, and they are. But this isn't a story 0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:36.000 that's or a label as such that's just bubbled up 0:39:36.000 --> 0:39:37.839 in the last hundred years. I mean, as you point 0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:40.360 out in the book, go back to the ninth century AD, 0:39:40.600 --> 0:39:42.600 China was the manufacturing powerhouse of the world. 0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:47.279 Back then, it certainly was, but especially between the mid 0:39:47.360 --> 0:39:51.560 fifteen hundreds and the eighteen hundreds, China was a global 0:39:51.800 --> 0:39:56.360 manufacturing superpower, as it has returned to become in the 0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:59.799 twenty first century. And the result of that was that 0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:03.759 they mostly demanded payment in silver because there was not 0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:08.040 much else they wanted, and all the world's silver was 0:40:08.080 --> 0:40:12.560 shipped to China. It's so much so that the balance 0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:15.600 of trade got out of control completely out of control. 0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:19.600 Sir Isaac Newton, in one of his many roles, was 0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:23.040 Warden of the Royal Mint in London, and he complained 0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:29.120 that China was carrying away the silver from all Europe. 0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:31.799 And one of the remarks that I really like is 0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:35.799 by Carl Linnaeus, a botanist but also something of a 0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:40.120 public intellectual, and he expressed the view that there is 0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:43.920 nothing more important than to close that gate to China 0:40:44.000 --> 0:40:47.640 through which all the silver of Europe disappears. It sounds 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:50.319 like a modern trumpion, and I laughed when I came 0:40:50.360 --> 0:40:50.839 across it. 0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:54.560 Europe first, Yes, but that's the thing. This is where 0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:57.880 opium comes in, isn't it. Because the silver was heading 0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:00.880 into China, So that the europe and some of the 0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:03.799 European said, well, hang, we're sending good silver and we're 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:07.360 buying trinkets back like tea luxuries. You can't build a 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.359 modern wealthy economy or an empire on that. So here's 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:13.000 an idea. Let's get them hooked on the opium and 0:41:13.040 --> 0:41:14.160 we'll get the silver back. 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:19.560 Yeah. Some officials in the British government and the East 0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:23.040 India Company came up with the idea in the late 0:41:23.280 --> 0:41:28.840 eighteenth century that they would start to industrialize the production 0:41:28.920 --> 0:41:33.360 of opium in northern India. So over time they created 0:41:33.719 --> 0:41:37.440 a huge eight hundred kilometer stretch of the Lower Ganges 0:41:37.880 --> 0:41:40.600 as an opium growing area. It was the biggest in 0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:43.680 the world, much bigger than put the Talban to shame, yes, 0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:45.759 and put Turkeia to shame, which was the land of 0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:52.560 the poppy. And it was all completely cynical because the 0:41:53.120 --> 0:41:58.080 opium was sold at auctions in Calcutta to private traders. 0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:01.640 The British government and the India Company knew the private 0:42:01.680 --> 0:42:05.720 traders would then smuggle it to China, and they used 0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:10.720 that mechanism as a means for reversing the trade in silver. 0:42:10.880 --> 0:42:15.160 So the Chinese paid silver for opium and the British 0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:19.560 government profited hugely from the profits made on the sale 0:42:19.560 --> 0:42:20.279 of opium. 0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:23.800 Correct me if my pronunciation's wrong. But one of the 0:42:23.880 --> 0:42:26.279 key figures in this story is that qinglong is that 0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:30.160 how you pronounce it, King long es. So between sixteen 0:42:30.239 --> 0:42:33.440 sixty one and seventeen ninety nine you got the three emperors, 0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:37.680 the Qing Emperors. China's that it's apergy, Yes. By nineteen 0:42:37.760 --> 0:42:40.240 twelve they're on their knees yes, how did that happen? 0:42:40.840 --> 0:42:47.560 Well, First of all, the movement of opium into China 0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:53.360 on a massive scale just took off a like drugs do, 0:42:53.640 --> 0:42:59.680 like fentanyl does in the United States, and it weakened society. 0:43:00.440 --> 0:43:03.160 The Emperor was so concerned about the effect of opium 0:43:03.440 --> 0:43:05.840 in the eighteen thirties that he directed one of his 0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:08.720 officials to stop it, to bring it to a halt. 0:43:09.960 --> 0:43:13.360 This very principal man went down to Canton, which was 0:43:13.400 --> 0:43:19.239 the heart of the British trade, and decided to imprison 0:43:19.680 --> 0:43:25.399 anyone smuggling opium and told all the foreign traders in 0:43:25.520 --> 0:43:29.400 Canton that they would have to give up their supplies 0:43:29.400 --> 0:43:37.760 of opium and if they didn't, he would punish them. Well, 0:43:38.480 --> 0:43:44.400 they couldn't believe it. They resisted. The Chinese locked them 0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:49.520 all up in their warehouses and homes in Canton and 0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:53.640 kept them there for about two months whilst the opium 0:43:53.760 --> 0:43:57.239 was collected and destroyed. This was such an affront to 0:43:57.280 --> 0:44:01.279 the British government because so much money was involved, that 0:44:01.560 --> 0:44:04.880 they started the First Opium War in late eighteen thirty 0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:10.359 nine in order to teach the Chinese a lesson, and 0:44:11.560 --> 0:44:17.640 it had no other purpose other than to punish the 0:44:17.719 --> 0:44:23.319 Chinese and make them understand that the British would not 0:44:23.400 --> 0:44:25.400 be interrupted in their trade. 0:44:25.320 --> 0:44:27.279 And the French not so much with opium, but the 0:44:27.280 --> 0:44:30.200 French were involved in trade, the Americans, the Russians, there 0:44:30.239 --> 0:44:33.600 were a number of European powers. Anyone who's watched fifty 0:44:33.640 --> 0:44:36.239 five days in peaking those Yes, there was more than 0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:38.120 just the British. Although the British seemed to be the 0:44:38.120 --> 0:44:39.280 big player. 0:44:38.920 --> 0:44:42.680 On they were dominant, and the Americans started to come 0:44:42.719 --> 0:44:47.280 in after the Revolutionary War and became probably the second 0:44:47.280 --> 0:44:51.520 most powerful trading force in China alongside the British. 0:44:52.000 --> 0:44:54.520 Is there a correlation between the end of slavery and 0:44:54.600 --> 0:44:59.440 the rise of the opium trade as far as chasing 0:44:59.440 --> 0:45:00.160 a prophet. 0:45:01.280 --> 0:45:05.560 It's possible. I mean, that's a perspective that I haven't 0:45:05.719 --> 0:45:09.680 thought about. There was certainly a correlation between the t 0:45:09.680 --> 0:45:13.239 trade and slavery and the sugar trade. Yes, that was 0:45:13.680 --> 0:45:16.399 a triangle of trade that fed off each other. 0:45:16.920 --> 0:45:19.880 Part of this story seemed, and it's beautifully written. I mean, 0:45:20.400 --> 0:45:22.240 I recommend this book for people who want to understand 0:45:22.239 --> 0:45:23.160 a bit about what's going on. 0:45:23.239 --> 0:45:23.479 Now. 0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:26.840 You've got to understand what's happened because the many China 0:45:27.000 --> 0:45:29.920 observers acknowledge, and that's not to say they support the 0:45:29.960 --> 0:45:32.480 Communist Party or anything like that, but they acknowledge that 0:45:33.360 --> 0:45:36.440 ingrained in the Chinese DNA is this sense of humiliation 0:45:36.640 --> 0:45:38.440 from the past, and they're not going to let it 0:45:38.480 --> 0:45:41.400 happen on their watch second time. And they know what 0:45:41.480 --> 0:45:44.200 happens with trade, and they've seen this and whatnot. So 0:45:45.200 --> 0:45:47.520 there does seem to be a narrative flowing through this 0:45:47.640 --> 0:45:51.480 story that covers many centuries. In many ways, there's a 0:45:51.600 --> 0:45:57.080 conflict between what the traders want and what the governments 0:45:57.520 --> 0:46:01.120 that they are loyal to want, or I shouldn't say loyal. 0:46:01.160 --> 0:46:03.040 In many cases they weren't loyal to their governments at all. 0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:05.040 They were just loyal to money. But they happened to 0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:07.520 be British or they happened to be French. And the 0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:15.719 diplomatic arrivals from Europe often stymied the trade of the traders. 0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:19.640 They got upset that there was a parallel discussion going 0:46:19.640 --> 0:46:21.840 on with the Chinese, wasn't there One was about money 0:46:21.840 --> 0:46:25.080 from the traders, and one was political and geopolitical from 0:46:25.080 --> 0:46:25.640 the governments. 0:46:25.880 --> 0:46:29.280 Well, the merchants and the traders as always were interested 0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:32.440 only in one thing, that is maximizing their profit. They 0:46:32.440 --> 0:46:39.040 didn't care about morality or principles whatsoever. The irony is 0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:43.400 that some in Britain spoke out against the opium trade, 0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:46.640 and many in America spoke out against the opium trade. 0:46:47.239 --> 0:46:52.440 But at the end of the day, money talked, and 0:46:52.560 --> 0:46:59.520 it was money that swung the governments of the United 0:46:59.560 --> 0:47:03.319 States Britain in favor of allowing the trade and not 0:47:03.480 --> 0:47:06.360 intervening until right at the end. It took sixty or 0:47:06.400 --> 0:47:10.600 seventy years before people recognized that they could not allow 0:47:10.680 --> 0:47:12.040 this trade to continue. 0:47:12.960 --> 0:47:15.560 I mean, you're a historian, do you see parallels with 0:47:15.680 --> 0:47:18.640 a lot of the contemporaneous debate going on with China today? 0:47:18.760 --> 0:47:20.799 I mean, take, for example, the position that comes out 0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:25.000 of Wa generally speaking, as opposed to the East coast 0:47:25.000 --> 0:47:29.200 of Australia, where the political class resides about how we. 0:47:29.239 --> 0:47:33.279 Deal with well, Twiggy Forest is the Jardine Matheson of 0:47:33.360 --> 0:47:35.160 his day. Jardine Matheson. 0:47:35.239 --> 0:47:37.200 He may not like that comparison. I was going to 0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:39.160 ask you tell us about this Jardine character. 0:47:40.400 --> 0:47:43.520 Well, putting aside the morality of the opium trade, Jardine 0:47:43.520 --> 0:47:46.239 Matheson wanted to pursue their trade to the hilt and 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:48.920 they didn't care anything about what the government wanted to do. 0:47:49.440 --> 0:47:55.840 And Twiggy another minerals exporters from West Australia just promote 0:47:55.840 --> 0:47:59.920 the trade, and I have some sympathy for them. I 0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:03.959 believe in a pragmatic approach to political relations, but that's 0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:05.440 not the subject of my book. 0:48:05.600 --> 0:48:08.839 No, But nonetheless there are interesting parallels. Yes, the reason 0:48:08.920 --> 0:48:11.239 we're speaking is trying to understand the present. Yes, And 0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:13.439 to understand the present, you've got to understand the past. Yeah, 0:48:13.880 --> 0:48:17.160 And the past is informing everything that's happening now from China, 0:48:17.719 --> 0:48:20.440 I guess you know, we get a lot of Western perspectives, 0:48:20.440 --> 0:48:23.480 and fair enough on the whole situation. If we were 0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:26.359 sitting in Beijing, and again I'm no sympathiser for what 0:48:26.440 --> 0:48:28.319 goes on out of the Communist Party, far from it. 0:48:28.360 --> 0:48:30.759 But if we were to sit in their chair and 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:34.799 look out to the Western world with this history that 0:48:34.840 --> 0:48:38.239 you've written about, we would have a different perspective about 0:48:38.239 --> 0:48:39.839 the situation at the moment, wouldn't we. Oh? 0:48:39.880 --> 0:48:45.160 Absolutely, And if anyone's serious about understanding the past and 0:48:45.239 --> 0:48:49.080 the present, but especially the present, it's probably not wise 0:48:49.160 --> 0:48:53.240 to confine your reading and you're listening to Western media. 0:48:53.440 --> 0:48:55.720 Jardine, tell me a bit more about that character, because 0:48:55.719 --> 0:48:58.880 he is central in what happened, isn't he. 0:48:59.400 --> 0:49:03.120 Well Ian and Matheson were two scotsmen. They became partners 0:49:03.160 --> 0:49:06.640 and formed a huge conglomerate called Jardine Matheson. I think 0:49:06.680 --> 0:49:09.719 it's still known by the same name and still exists. 0:49:10.239 --> 0:49:16.400 And they were private traders. Jardine started as an eighteen 0:49:16.480 --> 0:49:20.400 year old with the East India Company and then left 0:49:20.520 --> 0:49:24.520 to run his own business life. They made so much 0:49:24.600 --> 0:49:32.480 money peddling opium in Canton and throughout China that they 0:49:32.560 --> 0:49:37.160 became wealthy beyond their wildest dreams forgotten which one, either 0:49:37.239 --> 0:49:41.400 Jardine or Matheson became the second largest landowner in the 0:49:41.480 --> 0:49:45.960 United Kingdom. Jardine became a member of the House of Commons. 0:49:46.360 --> 0:49:48.480 Does he also chewed the year of the Prime Minister 0:49:48.520 --> 0:49:50.000 to get the first opium more up? Oh? 0:49:50.040 --> 0:49:54.120 Absolutely, yes, yes, it was a bit like I could 0:49:54.200 --> 0:49:56.800 draw some examples with what's happening at the moment in Washington, 0:49:56.880 --> 0:49:59.360 d C. But it's a bit like someone with a 0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:06.040 vital inter in the money side of things controlling government policy, 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:14.080 because Jardine constantly wrote to the government, constantly wrote to 0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:19.640 the Foreign Minister, Lord Palmerston, and attended on his office 0:50:19.680 --> 0:50:22.560 in London whenever he could. Whenever he was in London, 0:50:22.800 --> 0:50:27.080 went to Whitehall, and he certainly had the air of 0:50:28.000 --> 0:50:32.080 the government, and was there three days before the vital 0:50:32.120 --> 0:50:37.480 Cabinet meeting on which the Government decided to embark on 0:50:37.520 --> 0:50:41.000 the first Opium War. In fact, the plan presented by 0:50:41.040 --> 0:50:45.560 Lord Palmerston at that cabinet meeting at Windsor Castle, strangely enough, 0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:49.280 was a mirror image of what Palmerston had proposed. 0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:52.480 Just to conclude, I go back to the introduction where 0:50:52.480 --> 0:50:54.759 you say, if we fail to understand China's past and 0:50:54.800 --> 0:50:57.279 the history of its trading relationship with the West, we 0:50:57.440 --> 0:51:03.200 risked miscalculation and misreading. We fuel mistrust and we invite misjudgment. 0:51:03.640 --> 0:51:07.440 Do you think, broadly speaking, we are failing in all 0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:09.640 of those metrics. 0:51:10.120 --> 0:51:14.760 We're not doing well enough. We may not have failed yet. 0:51:14.960 --> 0:51:21.640 The crunch hasn't come. But we must do more. And 0:51:22.960 --> 0:51:28.680 I'm optimistic and hope for the best, don't we all? 0:51:29.400 --> 0:51:32.040 Well? People could do worse than read your book, Silk 0:51:32.200 --> 0:51:35.640 Silver Opium, the trade with China, the change history. It's 0:51:35.640 --> 0:51:38.160 a fantastic read. I recommended Michael Pembroke. Thank you for 0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:42.799 joining us. Thanks Michael, been a pleasure, Michael Pembroke. And 0:51:43.120 --> 0:51:46.080 that book, Silk Silver Opium will be out shortly in 0:51:46.120 --> 0:51:47.879 all the good bookstores. And you know how the rest 0:51:47.880 --> 0:51:50.160 of the drill goes. Silk Silver apiena very good book. Indeed, 0:51:50.480 --> 0:51:53.520 twenty three minutes past one, speaking of resources and whatnot, 0:51:53.560 --> 0:51:55.719 Mitch has just thrown this bit of trivia at me. Look, 0:51:55.880 --> 0:51:57.719 I'm not chaving that time to verify it, but I'll 0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:00.000 take him at his word. He says, Now you speak 0:52:00.040 --> 0:52:02.839 about silver, But he says, here's a trivia question about gold. 0:52:03.480 --> 0:52:06.480 If you were able to take all the gold that 0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:09.839 has been mined found by man since they started using it, 0:52:09.840 --> 0:52:13.239 and made a solid cube out of that, what would 0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:18.360 the dimensions of that cube be? He said? The answer 0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:24.640 is around twenty five meters by twenty five meters, twenty 0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:31.279 five by twenty five by twenty five, So that's a cube. 0:52:31.360 --> 0:52:33.120 He said. No, what I've asked has come close to 0:52:33.120 --> 0:52:35.239 getting that right. That's from Mitch. I wouldn't have had 0:52:35.280 --> 0:52:37.200 a clue to be honest, and I'm not. I assume 0:52:37.239 --> 0:52:38.960 that's right, Mitch. I'll take each word. I mean, some 0:52:39.000 --> 0:52:41.440 people out there might say yes, no. But if you 0:52:41.480 --> 0:52:43.719 imagine a cube twenty five meters in length, twenty five 0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:46.520 meters in width, and twenty five meters in height, and 0:52:46.560 --> 0:52:48.520 you packed all of the gold that's been mined and 0:52:48.640 --> 0:52:50.520 used by man since you know, I don't know, the 0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:54.319 Romans and the Egyptians were knocking out gold out of 0:52:54.840 --> 0:52:57.919 all the minds in the ancient world or whatever that's it. 0:52:58.680 --> 0:53:01.080 That doesn't seem like a lot in the scheme of things, 0:53:01.080 --> 0:53:03.879 doesn't now? Wonder they stop using any coins? One three, 0:53:03.920 --> 0:53:05.759 one eight seven three. You've got any more fun facts 0:53:05.840 --> 0:53:07.359 or trivia? We love all of that on the show 0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:09.520 one three one eight seven three. Now I want you 0:53:09.520 --> 0:53:11.200 to ever listen to a bit of audio in a second. 0:53:11.200 --> 0:53:13.239 This has come from the BBC, so you know, the 0:53:13.239 --> 0:53:17.399 British parent of the ABC out here Artie as they 0:53:17.440 --> 0:53:20.359 call it, and it's without a doubt in ow left 0:53:20.400 --> 0:53:23.720 of center in its general persuasion. But Britain is going 0:53:23.760 --> 0:53:26.640 through a bit of a seismic rumble about how it 0:53:26.760 --> 0:53:29.080 defines women. You know, the High Court over there have 0:53:29.160 --> 0:53:33.440 decided that actually, you know, there is a biological basis 0:53:33.920 --> 0:53:37.160 to a lot of this shock horror, and so the 0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:40.200 ruptures and the rumbles are now playing out in a 0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:45.479 range of different ways. So bring in a BBC News 0:53:45.520 --> 0:53:48.239 presenter by the name of Martin Croxel. I think I've 0:53:48.239 --> 0:53:51.960 seen her on BBC World Service Occasion. Does good job anyway. 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:54.080 So she's reading the teleprompt as anyone who's ever done 0:53:54.120 --> 0:53:55.920 television as you just you sit there and you look 0:53:55.960 --> 0:53:57.839 down the lens of this thing and you push your 0:53:57.880 --> 0:54:01.440 pedal underneath and the word scroll. You're just reading. Generally, 0:54:01.640 --> 0:54:03.640 if you're news reader, someone else has written the script 0:54:03.719 --> 0:54:07.000 for you. You're just the face and the voice. Now, 0:54:07.280 --> 0:54:10.359 she may not have read this in advance. This might 0:54:10.360 --> 0:54:12.520 have been an updated script. I don't know. But she's 0:54:12.560 --> 0:54:15.640 reading a report about advice for vulnerable people during heat waves. 0:54:15.680 --> 0:54:18.239 You know, that's twenty nine degrees or something outrageous in 0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:20.160 England at the moment, so you know, people are fainting 0:54:20.200 --> 0:54:24.240 at her. So she's reading this news report about advice 0:54:24.360 --> 0:54:28.000 advice for vulnerable people in a heat wave, and then 0:54:28.200 --> 0:54:29.799 she's going blah blah blah, blah blah blah, bah, and 0:54:29.800 --> 0:54:32.600 then on the script she just reads it pregnant people. 0:54:33.440 --> 0:54:35.960 Bah bah bah bah bah. And you can see when 0:54:36.040 --> 0:54:37.799 you watch her, you might have seen this already on 0:54:37.840 --> 0:54:40.319 YouTube or on the internet, something clicks in the back 0:54:40.320 --> 0:54:42.080 of the brain. I mean, she is a biological woman, 0:54:42.120 --> 0:54:44.640 after all. And then she goes no, no, no, no, and 0:54:44.760 --> 0:54:48.120 she says women and then carries on and there's a 0:54:48.160 --> 0:54:51.040 slight roll of the eyes and well, you know, keen 0:54:51.080 --> 0:54:54.720 observers have noted this and it's now gone, as they say, viral. 0:54:54.760 --> 0:54:56.680 Now I assume she's still got a job at the BBC. 0:54:57.040 --> 0:55:00.920 She should, She should, because she's just standing up for 0:55:01.040 --> 0:55:05.759 biological and scientific fact, right and surely if there's no 0:55:05.840 --> 0:55:07.560 place for that in the news, there's no place for 0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:09.680 it anywhere. Anyway. Here's the audio you're not going to 0:55:10.120 --> 0:55:12.200 you can't see the eye roll, but you'll get the 0:55:12.440 --> 0:55:15.680 you'll get the the tone. Have a listen. 0:55:16.640 --> 0:55:19.719 Malcolm Mystery, who is involved in the research, says that 0:55:19.800 --> 0:55:24.760 the aged, pregnant people, women and those with pre existing 0:55:24.800 --> 0:55:28.480 health conditions need to take precautions good honor. 0:55:29.320 --> 0:55:31.959 It takes some guts, you know, it takes some guts 0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:33.439 in the heat of the moment. To make a call 0:55:33.560 --> 0:55:36.680 like that, particularly when you know the zeitgeis your employer 0:55:36.840 --> 0:55:40.840 probably isn't on that wavelength. She's taken a stand, and 0:55:40.880 --> 0:55:42.920 I think JK. Rowling and others have already come out 0:55:42.920 --> 0:55:44.720 and SA good on it. Well, she'll have some powerful 0:55:44.719 --> 0:55:47.919 backers in a corner. But I'm sure she doesn't want 0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:50.520 to be some sort of feminist hero, but she's certainly 0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:54.920 a champion of biology. And the more people that just 0:55:55.200 --> 0:56:00.880 speak sense in this matter sensitively, you know, we're hurt people. 0:56:02.320 --> 0:56:06.680 But there's no say men cannot get pregnant. I mean, 0:56:06.680 --> 0:56:09.440 this is just I know this will be a newsflash 0:56:09.480 --> 0:56:11.680 to some particularly young people who have been brought up 0:56:11.840 --> 0:56:15.400 believing that anything's possible because you think it is. But 0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:19.239 men don't have wombs, So men won't carry babies. They 0:56:19.239 --> 0:56:23.120 don't they don't have the requisite kit to carry babies. 0:56:23.280 --> 0:56:25.360 And even if people are born male but identify as 0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:30.160 female and undergo surgery, they can't deliver babies. Only women 0:56:30.160 --> 0:56:33.279 can do that, biological women. And so when you talk 0:56:33.280 --> 0:56:38.640 about pregnant people, you are only talking about women, right, 0:56:39.360 --> 0:56:41.759 And it shouldn't be controversial to say that. Although in 0:56:41.800 --> 0:56:45.080 twenty twenty five, in many places around the Western world. 0:56:45.239 --> 0:56:48.319 Elsewhere they've got other problems, they've got real problems. But 0:56:48.400 --> 0:56:51.319 in the Western world it is controversial to say that 0:56:51.480 --> 0:57:00.120 shouldn't be truth to defense one three, one eight seven three. 0:57:01.000 --> 0:57:02.759 Let's go to the news aeron Margaret. 0:57:02.440 --> 0:57:06.319 Afternoon, Good afternoon, Michael. Petrol prices are likely to rise 0:57:06.360 --> 0:57:09.120 as conflict escalates in the Middle East, but muttering bodies 0:57:09.120 --> 0:57:12.040 say there is no need to panic. Cut Our Airways 0:57:12.120 --> 0:57:15.680 is continuing to monitor the situation between Israel and Iran, 0:57:15.680 --> 0:57:18.920 while other airlines between Australia and Europe have changed their roots. 0:57:19.120 --> 0:57:21.520 The Premier says he's willing to listen to concerns from 0:57:21.600 --> 0:57:24.840 nurses at Westmead Hospital that patient care has been compromised 0:57:25.120 --> 0:57:28.040 as neonatal intensive care staff walk off the job. And 0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:30.080 there's a minor flood warning for the Cooks River for 0:57:30.200 --> 0:57:33.200 tonight and tomorrow at the Tempee Bridge at high Tide 0:57:33.440 --> 0:57:36.520 in Sport. The Oklahoma City Thunder our NBA champions after 0:57:36.560 --> 0:57:39.680 winning the series deciding Game seven over the Indiana Paces 0:57:39.680 --> 0:57:42.440 one hundred and three to ninety one. It's the Thunders 0:57:42.520 --> 0:57:45.360 first NBA title and there'll be more news at two 0:57:45.360 --> 0:57:47.880 o'clock on afternoons. 0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:49.480 Oh, weather are update. 0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:52.080 We'll be here to help in unexpected weather. 0:57:52.520 --> 0:57:54.920 Nurmain Insurance a help company. 0:57:55.240 --> 0:57:57.840 Okay, Sydney today sunny and twenty two. It's about the 0:57:57.880 --> 0:58:00.000 best we've had for a couple of weeks. Beautiful day outside, 0:58:00.640 --> 0:58:02.479 pretty much the same everywhere. It'll be up to twenty 0:58:02.480 --> 0:58:05.360 three at Richmond today, Terry Hills just twenty twenty one 0:58:05.440 --> 0:58:10.160 for Liverpool and Bondai and Parramatta twenty two elsewhere Tomorrow showers. 0:58:10.160 --> 0:58:12.200 There could be six mil of rain tomorrow top of 0:58:12.240 --> 0:58:14.840 twenty one in the city before a bit of cloud 0:58:14.840 --> 0:58:18.200 but largely dry I think Wednesday, although cooler top of 0:58:18.240 --> 0:58:21.200 just seventeen. Get your coats ready. Camberra today fifteen, shower 0:58:21.280 --> 0:58:24.200 or two developing. Tugerong's the same. Up to thirty mil 0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:26.720 of rain tomorrow in the capitol, although we'll ease later 0:58:26.760 --> 0:58:28.520 in the day at the top of just fourteen. But 0:58:28.560 --> 0:58:32.360 mind you that'll fill Balmie because come Wednesday Canberra is 0:58:32.360 --> 0:58:36.120 going to be wet and a top of just eight degrees. 0:58:37.440 --> 0:58:40.640 Lithgo today fifteen and partly cloudy thirteen with a drop 0:58:40.760 --> 0:58:42.960 or two of rain for Orange eighteen for Mudgie bit 0:58:43.000 --> 0:58:45.680 wet baths should be dry fifteen fifteen, as I said 0:58:45.720 --> 0:58:48.320 for Lithgo Katoomba fifteen and just to be different spring 0:58:48.320 --> 0:58:51.360 Wood twenty one showers tomorrow, though for Lithgo maybe twenty 0:58:51.400 --> 0:58:53.360 mil of rain thirteen the top and then just seven 0:58:53.400 --> 0:58:56.640 on Wednesday. Now the six mil of rain potentially before 0:58:56.680 --> 0:58:59.400 a morning frost, followed by a sunny Thursday, just to 0:58:59.480 --> 0:59:02.320 dry things out, although again cool top of just nine 0:59:02.320 --> 0:59:05.400 degrees one three one eight seven three. Okay. Now a 0:59:05.400 --> 0:59:07.439 few different people are suggesting it wouldn't have been twenty 0:59:07.480 --> 0:59:10.120 five meters by twenty five meters, but twenty five kilometers 0:59:10.200 --> 0:59:13.400 by twenty five kilometers. I think that's too much. I 0:59:13.440 --> 0:59:16.920 don't think that'd be right. That'd been enormous volume. We 0:59:16.960 --> 0:59:21.040 are googling as we speak. We've got this Gemini thing 0:59:21.080 --> 0:59:24.000 here now, so that'll tell us the answer. I've never 0:59:24.120 --> 0:59:27.800 used it, but apparently it does wonderful things. Sam says, 0:59:27.840 --> 0:59:32.360 are you sure it's not two one hundred and fifty? No? 0:59:32.480 --> 0:59:36.280 Hang on, Sam, say twenty five kilometers cubed? He said, 0:59:36.320 --> 0:59:38.920 I think there would be more than twenty five meters 0:59:38.920 --> 0:59:41.960 cubed in Fort Knox alone. Just seems like well, that's interesting. 0:59:41.960 --> 0:59:44.680 You mentioned Fort Knox. The President, Donald Trump wants to 0:59:44.680 --> 0:59:47.040 get into Fort Knox to check the gold still there. 0:59:48.040 --> 0:59:51.200 That could be interesting. Twenty six minutes to do. We'll 0:59:51.200 --> 0:59:53.680 do motoring after this, okay, So see how much gold 0:59:53.680 --> 0:59:55.280 in the world and what sort of box would it 0:59:55.320 --> 0:59:57.880 fit into. Debate continues on the text line. Gary says 0:59:57.920 --> 1:00:00.360 the old mates about right. All the gold in the world, 1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:03.520 says Gary wouldn't fill an Olympic sized swimming pool. Hard 1:00:03.560 --> 1:00:06.200 to believe, but gold is very rare. That's from Gary. 1:00:06.280 --> 1:00:08.200 Good on you. Gary appreciate that. So I think we're 1:00:08.200 --> 1:00:10.120 getting a bit of a consensus that maybe twenty five 1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:12.640 by twenty five by twenty five is if you had 1:00:12.640 --> 1:00:14.960 to condense it, that'd be about it. All the gold 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:18.080 that's ever been mined. And when you think about all 1:00:18.080 --> 1:00:20.040 the gold jewelry that's out there, the gold that's still 1:00:20.040 --> 1:00:22.680 in old coins, the gold that's in the form of leaf, 1:00:22.720 --> 1:00:24.640 the gold when you think gold is in all sorts 1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:28.160 of thing, medical equipments, some people's denches. My grandmother had 1:00:28.160 --> 1:00:30.720 little gold fillings. I when you add it all up 1:00:31.280 --> 1:00:33.600 and go twenty five x twenty five x twenty five meters, 1:00:35.200 --> 1:00:37.160 it doesn't seem a lot. Puts it into a perspective, 1:00:37.160 --> 1:00:39.880 I guess, Gary and others thank you. The debate continues. 1:00:40.200 --> 1:00:47.640 It's twenty one to two now one afternoons drive. All right, 1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:50.160 Well let's leave Gold and get into our motor vehicles 1:00:50.200 --> 1:00:50.520 from moment. 1:00:50.560 --> 1:00:50.640 Now. 1:00:50.640 --> 1:00:52.440 You probably got a question about your car, or you're 1:00:52.440 --> 1:00:53.960 thinking of buying one, or maybe you want to know 1:00:53.960 --> 1:00:55.800 what one should I get the kids or something like that. 1:00:55.920 --> 1:00:59.360 Well Sam Purcell is the expert from drive dot com 1:00:59.360 --> 1:01:02.200 dot good with the off road stuff, and he's with 1:01:02.280 --> 1:01:03.240 us on the line. 1:01:03.280 --> 1:01:05.560 Hello Sam, Good, afternoon, Michael. 1:01:05.760 --> 1:01:07.640 Okay, so if people have a question one three one 1:01:07.680 --> 1:01:09.320 eight seven three, I'll send me a text and I'll 1:01:09.320 --> 1:01:11.560 give it to you zero four six zero eight seven 1:01:11.560 --> 1:01:15.400 three eight seven three. Let's start with the Suzuki Jimney. 1:01:15.520 --> 1:01:17.960 That's the four wheel drive, so that's in that's in 1:01:18.000 --> 1:01:21.919 your line of expertise. Three doors, excellent little car. Yeah, 1:01:21.920 --> 1:01:23.480 I mean the name's been around a while, but we 1:01:23.520 --> 1:01:25.120 haven't seen them. What they're coming back, are they? 1:01:25.760 --> 1:01:26.000 Yeah? 1:01:26.080 --> 1:01:29.200 Yeah, So they actually ran into some some problems with 1:01:29.600 --> 1:01:33.000 compliance with Australian rules. So that car does have autonomous 1:01:33.040 --> 1:01:35.520 emergency braking, but we had some updates in the rules 1:01:35.520 --> 1:01:37.560 of the bare minimum of what cars had to have, 1:01:38.160 --> 1:01:41.800 and the AEB system in the Jymney wasn't up to scratch, 1:01:41.840 --> 1:01:43.960 so they had to actually stop production of that car 1:01:44.360 --> 1:01:46.760 coming into Australia from Japan. Now there is a five 1:01:46.840 --> 1:01:49.400 door model that comes in from India, but that original 1:01:49.480 --> 1:01:52.240 three door one, which is kind of is the quintessential Chimney. 1:01:52.280 --> 1:01:55.480 I suppose they're not producing it for the Aussie market 1:01:55.480 --> 1:01:58.280 at the moment, so supply supply is whistling right down. 1:01:58.320 --> 1:02:00.000 But we can expect that to come back on board 1:02:00.160 --> 1:02:02.800 as soon as Suzuki can get around to it. 1:02:02.840 --> 1:02:05.280 So I think that just waiting for a production. 1:02:04.960 --> 1:02:08.040 Slot for that car to fly back up. And it's 1:02:08.080 --> 1:02:09.800 been a really popular model for a long time. So 1:02:09.880 --> 1:02:11.440 back in the COVID days, that was one of the 1:02:11.440 --> 1:02:12.800 cars that had a three or four. 1:02:12.720 --> 1:02:15.640 Year waiting time. They've just gone on real so now 1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:17.880 they've got this extra problem back on top of it 1:02:17.920 --> 1:02:19.880 again sort of thing. So it's been a bit of 1:02:19.920 --> 1:02:20.720 a journey for that car. 1:02:20.800 --> 1:02:22.920 But yeah, people who are keen on one, they can 1:02:22.960 --> 1:02:25.240 expect a bit more stock to arrive in Australia and 1:02:25.280 --> 1:02:27.680 maybe not have a bit of a weight or maybe 1:02:27.960 --> 1:02:30.400 increase prices on the secondhand market and that sort of thing, 1:02:30.400 --> 1:02:31.120 which is good news. 1:02:31.200 --> 1:02:32.840 What's the RP on one of these? 1:02:33.880 --> 1:02:35.880 They not as cheap as they used to be. 1:02:36.000 --> 1:02:40.520 They're around forty thousand dollars at the moment they have gone. Yeah, yeah, 1:02:40.560 --> 1:02:42.800 they started. I think they might have been sort of 1:02:43.000 --> 1:02:45.520 twenty nine to ninety or something like that when they 1:02:45.560 --> 1:02:48.400 first came out, but they absolutely went gangbusters. It's a 1:02:48.440 --> 1:02:53.600 car that is pretty slow, not very refined, you know, 1:02:53.720 --> 1:02:55.640 isn't very efficient for the size of it, and not 1:02:55.960 --> 1:02:58.160 very good in terms of bootspace, but just a really 1:02:58.200 --> 1:03:00.240 fun car to look at, fun car driving away, good 1:03:00.280 --> 1:03:03.200 off road, just has that sort of fun character about it, 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:04.800 and it just it sold really well. 1:03:04.840 --> 1:03:05.440 Just based on that. 1:03:05.560 --> 1:03:08.000 A little part of my memory thinks that it used 1:03:08.000 --> 1:03:09.720 to be a car they gave on game shows. I 1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:12.480 don't sail, Yeah, yeah, we fortunately. 1:03:13.200 --> 1:03:15.120 Yeah, it was called the Sierra for a long time 1:03:15.160 --> 1:03:16.560 and they were the soft top ones. 1:03:16.920 --> 1:03:18.560 Yeah, it's an iconic car. 1:03:18.960 --> 1:03:21.160 I think we hide one of those as a family 1:03:21.240 --> 1:03:24.000 up in Queensland once and like the real small one 1:03:24.000 --> 1:03:26.800 with a clip on roof, and we were going through 1:03:26.840 --> 1:03:29.200 what was almost like a small tropical cyclone that hit 1:03:29.240 --> 1:03:32.680 somewhere on the Sunshine and anyway, we were driving pouring rain. 1:03:32.840 --> 1:03:35.080 This truck came in the other direction, sucked the whole 1:03:35.120 --> 1:03:39.040 roof off. Room Dad had to run down the Sunshine 1:03:39.040 --> 1:03:42.120 Ghost highwaerever it was. Budrooms picked the roof up. We 1:03:42.120 --> 1:03:46.120 were drenched. I don't recommend that roof. 1:03:46.320 --> 1:03:48.080 So you can get your deposit back as well when 1:03:48.120 --> 1:03:50.840 you yeah, well, yeah, I think they did require the 1:03:50.880 --> 1:03:51.560 roof to return. 1:03:52.640 --> 1:03:55.080 What happened to speaking of cars that were on game 1:03:55.120 --> 1:03:57.360 shows in years, what happened to? Say it that the 1:03:57.400 --> 1:03:58.840 Spanish car. 1:03:58.960 --> 1:04:02.320 Oh say, yeah, so they are still around in other 1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:05.600 parts of the world. So we've currently got Coopra in Australia, 1:04:05.600 --> 1:04:07.960 which is related to say it so that's. 1:04:07.840 --> 1:04:10.760 Part of the Volkswagen Empire. I suppose you could say, 1:04:11.080 --> 1:04:11.680 so that's. 1:04:11.680 --> 1:04:15.520 It comes from the same country and it's it's mostly 1:04:15.600 --> 1:04:18.400 electric cars at the moment, but they do have hybrids 1:04:18.400 --> 1:04:21.160 and petrol as well. Quite an interesting range of vehicles. 1:04:21.200 --> 1:04:23.600 So yes, say it's you don't really see. 1:04:23.400 --> 1:04:25.320 Them on the road anymore, but you might see these 1:04:25.400 --> 1:04:28.360 coopers getting around and that's the that's the closest thing we've. 1:04:28.200 --> 1:04:31.000 Got because the Europeans can still get. 1:04:30.880 --> 1:04:33.440 To say it rand Yes, Yes, that's right. 1:04:33.240 --> 1:04:35.120 All right, one three, one eight seven three, let's get 1:04:35.160 --> 1:04:40.640 to it. Simon's got a question. Hi Simon, Hi guys. 1:04:41.840 --> 1:04:48.360 Sam's just wondering the recently the Sugaru Outback twenty twenty 1:04:48.400 --> 1:04:52.240 six models shown at the New York Motor Show. I'm 1:04:52.280 --> 1:04:55.240 just curious. Would you have to know when it's likely 1:04:55.280 --> 1:04:56.880 to be released in Australia. 1:04:58.160 --> 1:05:02.200 No, I haven't heard that exactly at the moment, but 1:05:02.320 --> 1:05:04.400 it will be definitely coming to Australia. 1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:07.320 So that's It's a very boxy shape that one. 1:05:07.960 --> 1:05:09.800 I'm not sure if you're a big fan of the look, 1:05:09.840 --> 1:05:12.040 but it's definitely more of an suv than it used 1:05:12.040 --> 1:05:15.160 to be. But no, I haven't heard exactly when that 1:05:15.200 --> 1:05:17.640 will be coming to Australia just yet, but we can't 1:05:17.680 --> 1:05:18.120 expect it. 1:05:18.160 --> 1:05:21.680 Probably sometime next year, but it might be right towards 1:05:21.680 --> 1:05:22.880 the end of the year. We're not one hundred percent 1:05:22.880 --> 1:05:23.320 sure yet. 1:05:24.400 --> 1:05:25.840 It will be worth the way, do you think so? 1:05:26.720 --> 1:05:26.959 Yeah? 1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:31.000 Absolutely, the Outbacks an excellent vehicle. We might even see 1:05:31.040 --> 1:05:33.040 hybrid power in that car for the first time, which 1:05:33.040 --> 1:05:35.320 will be a good thing. So Superus teamed up with 1:05:35.440 --> 1:05:41.040 Toyota to effectively employ Toyota's hybrid side with the Subaru 1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:43.480 Boxer engine, so it'll still be all drive, it'll still 1:05:43.480 --> 1:05:45.200 be a good off roader and that sort of thing, 1:05:45.200 --> 1:05:47.440 which is really cool, but it will reduce fuel consumption 1:05:47.560 --> 1:05:50.040 quite dramatically, so that could be a good mix. We're 1:05:50.080 --> 1:05:52.760 going to get the Forester, which is the smaller version 1:05:52.800 --> 1:05:55.080 of the APT Back that's going to be on the 1:05:55.160 --> 1:05:57.040 roads pretty soon in Australia and that's going to be 1:05:57.040 --> 1:05:59.560 the first example with that hybrid power train. That'll be 1:05:59.600 --> 1:06:01.960 interesting to spend a bit more time with it. We've 1:06:01.960 --> 1:06:05.480 had a brief driver one initially. Initially impressions do look good. 1:06:05.520 --> 1:06:07.440 You can see that review on drive dot com toderu. 1:06:07.520 --> 1:06:09.320 But yeah, looking forward to spending more time with that 1:06:09.360 --> 1:06:09.800 car soon. 1:06:09.920 --> 1:06:12.280 Okay, great, Barry's got a question. Barry over to you. 1:06:13.720 --> 1:06:16.720 Yes, I got j So just a quick question. I'm 1:06:16.760 --> 1:06:18.840 looking at buying and you can and I'm thinking about 1:06:18.880 --> 1:06:24.160 the cross hybrid and you're thinking wondering what your view 1:06:24.240 --> 1:06:25.040 is over to the vehicle. 1:06:25.840 --> 1:06:28.320 Yeah, no worries either. Crawl across is a it's a. 1:06:28.280 --> 1:06:33.560 Good safe, honest option. It's maybe not as stylish as others. 1:06:33.600 --> 1:06:34.760 I would say that's probably more of. 1:06:34.760 --> 1:06:38.480 A personal opinion from my point of view, and typical 1:06:38.520 --> 1:06:41.240 of toyotas. I suppose that it is a little bit. 1:06:41.160 --> 1:06:43.920 More expensive than others out there, just based on brand 1:06:43.960 --> 1:06:47.480 reputation and that sort of thing. If you're thinking about 1:06:47.840 --> 1:06:51.000 another option that you might prefer, I would probably look at. 1:06:50.920 --> 1:06:54.840 The Cayundai Kona because that's also available with hybrid power. 1:06:55.360 --> 1:06:57.520 But the crawl across it's good, it's solid, it's a 1:06:57.560 --> 1:06:59.720 very good vehicle. So if you like the look of it, 1:07:00.080 --> 1:07:01.400 do you like the way it drives, go for it, 1:07:01.440 --> 1:07:02.880 I say, go on your. 1:07:02.760 --> 1:07:05.360 Barry, good question, Thank you mate. This one from Brad 1:07:05.360 --> 1:07:08.440 who says, look at getting a new ut. What's your opinion, Sam? 1:07:08.640 --> 1:07:10.960 On the Chinese made you so they up to the 1:07:10.960 --> 1:07:12.400 standard of the more common brands. 1:07:13.760 --> 1:07:17.080 They're absolutely, They're moving at a rate of knots getting 1:07:17.160 --> 1:07:19.880 catching up to that standard. I suppose you're not going 1:07:19.960 --> 1:07:22.840 to have I say, look, for example, at the GWM 1:07:22.920 --> 1:07:24.800 Cannon that's been updated recently. 1:07:24.840 --> 1:07:28.400 It's probably not as polished overall as a Ford. 1:07:28.240 --> 1:07:31.080 Ranger, for example, But considering the amount of equipment, you 1:07:31.120 --> 1:07:32.920 get the way it drives. 1:07:32.960 --> 1:07:33.840 For a vehicle that. 1:07:33.840 --> 1:07:36.560 Is under fifty thousand dollars on the road, I mean 1:07:36.600 --> 1:07:39.080 a Ford Ranger. They sort of start at fifty and 1:07:39.120 --> 1:07:41.240 then work their way up to about ninety thousand. For 1:07:41.600 --> 1:07:45.040 relevance sake. It is a very good car for the money. 1:07:45.120 --> 1:07:46.960 So no, it's not all the way there yet, but 1:07:47.000 --> 1:07:50.040 it's pretty dawn close. So if you're skeptical, I would say, 1:07:50.120 --> 1:07:51.720 just go and have a test drive and see how 1:07:51.720 --> 1:07:54.480 it looks and feels for yourself. Because everyone's standards are 1:07:54.480 --> 1:07:56.680 a little bit different as well. But I can say 1:07:56.760 --> 1:07:59.520 coming from driving pretty much all of them that they're 1:07:59.520 --> 1:08:02.720 catching up really really quickly, and they're they're right up 1:08:02.720 --> 1:08:04.840 there at the moment, they're sort of breathing down the neck, 1:08:04.880 --> 1:08:05.360 I would say. 1:08:05.640 --> 1:08:08.760 Of the mainstream story of Chinese industry all that. Speaking 1:08:08.760 --> 1:08:11.560 of GWM, Michael's got a question about the tank. Got 1:08:11.600 --> 1:08:14.120 a Michael, you know. 1:08:14.600 --> 1:08:15.440 Yeah, just wonderful. 1:08:15.600 --> 1:08:19.800 I'm looking at the tank five hundred ye your thoughts on. 1:08:20.880 --> 1:08:23.880 Yeah, Okay, it's a it's a it's an interesting card, 1:08:23.920 --> 1:08:25.880 to be honest with you. Just so that's got a 1:08:25.960 --> 1:08:29.560 hybrid powertrain, which is a real rarity. I suppose in 1:08:29.720 --> 1:08:31.800 that part of the world. It's a it's a big vehicle. 1:08:31.840 --> 1:08:34.200 It's about the size of a land Cruise, a Prato 1:08:34.280 --> 1:08:36.880 even slightly bigger, almost as big as a three hundred series. 1:08:36.920 --> 1:08:40.040 You could say the valley for money is excellent. It's 1:08:40.080 --> 1:08:40.719 a big vehicle. 1:08:40.760 --> 1:08:43.320 The hybrid powertrain does take a little bit of getting 1:08:43.439 --> 1:08:46.559 used to. It's so it's turbo charged and petrol. It's 1:08:46.600 --> 1:08:49.479 not necessarily the most efficient option out there, but it 1:08:49.520 --> 1:08:52.559 is quite powerful when you give it a punch. So yeah, 1:08:52.600 --> 1:08:55.160 it's definitely worth considering. And I it does come with 1:08:55.320 --> 1:08:57.720 a pretty good warranty offering these days as well, so 1:08:57.760 --> 1:09:00.160 you've got a bit of assurance there, I Suppo. 1:09:00.640 --> 1:09:02.200 But yeah, it's it's a good interesting car. 1:09:02.840 --> 1:09:05.479 Okay, thank you for that. Michael. A question about land 1:09:05.520 --> 1:09:09.200 cruise here from Trent. He says the new land Cruise 1:09:09.200 --> 1:09:12.000 of Prato, if the engine has enough power for every 1:09:12.040 --> 1:09:13.080 day motoring. 1:09:13.920 --> 1:09:15.000 It does. It does. 1:09:15.320 --> 1:09:18.240 It's outgunned by the Ford Everest, so you can get 1:09:18.240 --> 1:09:20.479 a V six in the Ford Everest, which has six 1:09:20.640 --> 1:09:23.520 hundred meters and around one hundred and eighty killer watts. 1:09:23.560 --> 1:09:27.160 The for the Toyota Prado it's got about five hundred 1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:29.040 newton metas and one hundred and fifty kilowatts. 1:09:29.080 --> 1:09:29.960 It's it's enough. 1:09:30.040 --> 1:09:32.960 It's just not as good as the rate at the Everest, 1:09:33.320 --> 1:09:36.040 I suppose, but it is good enough for every read, 1:09:36.080 --> 1:09:36.719 every day driving. 1:09:36.720 --> 1:09:38.920 Definitely a couple of questions about this. Tasman nute I 1:09:39.000 --> 1:09:40.479 tell you what, They've got every sports star in the 1:09:40.520 --> 1:09:43.400 world who was part of the They must be sinking 1:09:43.479 --> 1:09:47.000 some money into that. Yeah, yeah, But Simon says it 1:09:47.120 --> 1:09:50.400 looks like it was designed by Lego. You've not a 1:09:50.479 --> 1:09:52.439 rap on it, he says, how the sales go. 1:09:53.880 --> 1:09:56.439 So we don't know just yet. It hasn't sort of 1:09:56.479 --> 1:09:59.000 fully gone on sale as yet. We wouldn't be seeing 1:09:59.040 --> 1:10:00.960 them on the road very od. If you did see one, 1:10:01.000 --> 1:10:04.720 it would be one driven by a Kia employee, So 1:10:04.960 --> 1:10:07.360 we don't know that yet. They're looking to sell twenty 1:10:07.439 --> 1:10:11.040 thousand per year in Australia, which is a pretty big number. 1:10:11.120 --> 1:10:14.439 That's sort of maybe one third to a half of 1:10:14.560 --> 1:10:17.360 what Toyota or Ford would do of the Highlucks in 1:10:17.400 --> 1:10:19.200 the Ranger, so it's a pretty big chunk of that segment. 1:10:19.439 --> 1:10:21.479 It's a very competitive segment, so we'll see if they 1:10:21.479 --> 1:10:24.080 can do it. But there's a lot of negative commentary 1:10:24.120 --> 1:10:26.800 around the looks as well, and in that segment, people 1:10:26.960 --> 1:10:28.320 do really buy on looks, I think, so. 1:10:28.680 --> 1:10:31.760 Just on that onlook something. Look. I know there's copyrights 1:10:31.760 --> 1:10:33.040 and there's all sorts of things going on, and you 1:10:33.080 --> 1:10:35.719 can only design a certain shape of cars so often, 1:10:35.800 --> 1:10:37.680 but it seems to me like a lot of these 1:10:37.720 --> 1:10:40.920 South Korea and Chinese vehicles in the four wheel drive 1:10:40.960 --> 1:10:43.240 market have gone straight to land Rover or range Rover 1:10:43.320 --> 1:10:45.200 and said, well, let's just basically copy it. 1:10:45.800 --> 1:10:47.080 Yeah, you can see that. 1:10:47.200 --> 1:10:49.479 You can see the trendsetters definitely, and it's a lot 1:10:49.520 --> 1:10:52.120 of the sort of longest standing European brands quite often 1:10:52.120 --> 1:10:54.000 who do set the trends in this regard. 1:10:54.160 --> 1:10:55.120 And then you'll see. 1:10:54.960 --> 1:10:58.120 Little design elements so they won't copy the whole car overall, 1:10:58.200 --> 1:11:00.360 but you'll have a look at the headlight design like, oh, 1:11:00.479 --> 1:11:02.600 that reminds me of this car. Then you look at 1:11:02.640 --> 1:11:04.040 the back and say, oh, yeah, I can see a 1:11:04.080 --> 1:11:06.920 bit of this here and that there. It's everyone's reading 1:11:06.920 --> 1:11:09.840 each other's homework, I suppose, and they're trying to make 1:11:09.920 --> 1:11:11.679 something work with the with the segment. 1:11:12.240 --> 1:11:14.400 I guess yeah, yeah, so it's interesting. 1:11:14.720 --> 1:11:17.360 Yeah, okay, once upon a time we call that copying, 1:11:17.479 --> 1:11:20.360 but yeah, I don't know how that applies in the 1:11:20.400 --> 1:11:22.479 world of motor design. It's ten to two, by the way, 1:11:22.560 --> 1:11:24.639 more of Sam straight after this, all right, just before 1:11:24.640 --> 1:11:26.479 we get back to Sam and all the motoring questions. 1:11:26.520 --> 1:11:28.760 They're just seeing this on the Channel nine chopper feed 1:11:28.840 --> 1:11:31.040 as we speak. It appears a whale has got its 1:11:31.360 --> 1:11:34.400 tail stuck in a net. Now this is just a 1:11:34.479 --> 1:11:38.160 palm beachway off the baron Joey Lighthouse, you know, with 1:11:38.320 --> 1:11:39.960 Home and Aways filmed and whatnot. So a rest of 1:11:40.000 --> 1:11:41.680 your crew is out, I think, trying to free the 1:11:41.720 --> 1:11:45.519 whale's tail from the net. So that's all happening as 1:11:45.560 --> 1:11:48.599 we speak on the far northern tip of Sydney. Let's 1:11:48.600 --> 1:11:50.880 hope that can all resolve itself. Well one three, one 1:11:50.960 --> 1:11:54.000 eight seven three. Let's go back to calls Dino. What's 1:11:54.040 --> 1:11:54.880 your question for Sam? 1:11:56.640 --> 1:12:01.960 Morning? Sam morning, Michael, Yes, mate, Adam. Yeah, look looking 1:12:01.960 --> 1:12:06.400 at buying a two thousand and six model. 1:12:06.600 --> 1:12:07.960 It's a D forty. 1:12:08.200 --> 1:12:15.800 Is a mission of it's STX diesel. I think of 1:12:15.960 --> 1:12:18.719 test dry I yesterday went really well, is there anything 1:12:18.800 --> 1:12:21.360 I've got to look out for Sam with that model, 1:12:22.000 --> 1:12:23.120 with that model. 1:12:23.000 --> 1:12:25.280 No, just the usual stuff. Really, just have a good 1:12:25.320 --> 1:12:26.320 look at the service history. 1:12:26.479 --> 1:12:30.400 Make sure you can't see any sort of anything dodgy 1:12:30.479 --> 1:12:32.200 under the bonnet and he leaks and that sort of thing. 1:12:32.960 --> 1:12:36.000 And if you're sort of not the most mechanically minded 1:12:36.040 --> 1:12:38.200 person and you want a bit more assurance, I would 1:12:38.520 --> 1:12:41.040 engage the services of someone who can do a pre 1:12:41.160 --> 1:12:43.280 purchase inspection on your behalf and they can look at 1:12:43.320 --> 1:12:46.200 things like, you know, whether the calling systems up to. 1:12:46.160 --> 1:12:48.040 Scratch, how the old is going, and all all those 1:12:48.040 --> 1:12:50.800 little details that might catch you out a little bit 1:12:50.880 --> 1:12:54.320 later down the track that no major issues with that vehicle. 1:12:54.320 --> 1:12:55.599 As long as the service history. 1:12:55.479 --> 1:12:56.479 Is good, it should be all right. 1:12:56.600 --> 1:12:58.960 Good on your DNA. Now here's a definitional one. This 1:12:59.040 --> 1:13:00.960 is from raised in Brazil, when he says, we don't 1:13:01.000 --> 1:13:03.640 have uts in Australia any longer ever since hold on 1:13:03.720 --> 1:13:06.639 Ford stopped making them. They're all pickup trucks now because 1:13:06.640 --> 1:13:09.559 they all sit on a common rail. Chassy repeat, they 1:13:09.600 --> 1:13:11.560 are all pickup trucks Israel. 1:13:11.400 --> 1:13:14.920 Right, It depends on who you ask. I don't get 1:13:14.960 --> 1:13:16.400 too worked up or worried. 1:13:17.240 --> 1:13:19.080 So what do you fix? Oh jeez, I. 1:13:19.680 --> 1:13:20.519 Feel like the truck. 1:13:20.760 --> 1:13:22.839 The truck term is a bit more of an American 1:13:22.960 --> 1:13:25.920 term for me, so Ute is a utility, and that 1:13:26.040 --> 1:13:28.200 sort of refers to the body style more than anything else. 1:13:28.240 --> 1:13:30.679 And a utility is something that has the big open 1:13:30.720 --> 1:13:32.519 space in the back. So I call them forward drive 1:13:32.600 --> 1:13:35.280 uts myself, even though they might have a Yeah, they 1:13:35.320 --> 1:13:39.120 sit on a ladder chazzy. I mean older versions of 1:13:39.200 --> 1:13:41.720 the holden Ford Youth sat on a ladder shazzy as well, 1:13:41.760 --> 1:13:44.280 before they got a bit more advanced than Monocoq. So 1:13:44.479 --> 1:13:46.240 I mean, it's just a name. I don't get too 1:13:46.280 --> 1:13:48.000 worked up about it. But I'll stick to Ute for now. 1:13:48.040 --> 1:13:51.839 Okay, fine, Just in the twenty seconds left evto Vaz. 1:13:51.920 --> 1:13:54.160 It's a Russian company. They're trying to bring the Lader. 1:13:53.960 --> 1:13:54.960 Back, are they. Yeah? 1:13:55.080 --> 1:13:56.720 Yeah, So this is an interesting one. 1:13:56.960 --> 1:13:59.760 It's the first new Lader model that's come out for 1:14:00.160 --> 1:14:01.920 ten years, so it's a new design. 1:14:01.960 --> 1:14:05.000 It's a little bit more modern looking. Obviously, Russia's a 1:14:05.040 --> 1:14:05.960 bit preoccupied with. 1:14:06.000 --> 1:14:07.760 A lot of things going on and getting smashed by 1:14:07.800 --> 1:14:10.439 sanctions and you know, a long running war and all 1:14:10.560 --> 1:14:11.240 these sorts of things. 1:14:11.280 --> 1:14:14.320 But one interesting thing about this car. So it's an 1:14:14.360 --> 1:14:15.120 all new. 1:14:15.040 --> 1:14:18.280 Model, but it's actually based on fifteen year old underpinnings, 1:14:18.280 --> 1:14:21.760 so not necessarily an all new thing. And you know, 1:14:21.960 --> 1:14:24.640 I think they're sourcing a fair few components from I 1:14:24.720 --> 1:14:27.200 think they call them friendly partners, so you can assume 1:14:27.200 --> 1:14:30.320 that would be mostly China, yes, helping out with components 1:14:30.360 --> 1:14:33.040 and anything that they can't get from the global market. 1:14:34.160 --> 1:14:36.760 So yeah, it's a new car, but not at the. 1:14:36.720 --> 1:14:37.439 Same time not really. 1:14:37.479 --> 1:14:39.360 Don't think we'll see it anytime soon. Good on your Sam, 1:14:39.439 --> 1:14:42.360 Thanks for your help mate. Thank you, Sam Pasel From Drive. 1:14:43.000 --> 1:14:49.439 Now onto GB and Network stations. Back to Afternoons with 1:14:49.640 --> 1:14:50.600 Michael McLaren. 1:14:52.920 --> 1:14:53.800 Thank you for joining us. 1:14:54.160 --> 1:14:58.240 The situation in the Middle East continues to evolve. There 1:14:58.320 --> 1:15:01.080 have been no additional strike since we've been on air 1:15:01.160 --> 1:15:04.720 that I'm aware of. There are the usual protests in 1:15:04.840 --> 1:15:07.720 Tehran and images of Donald Trump with fangs and this 1:15:07.840 --> 1:15:11.480 sort of thing, but there's no doubt that the Iranian 1:15:11.560 --> 1:15:13.879 regime are now in a fight for their own survival. 1:15:14.479 --> 1:15:17.040 They'll put the loyalists out there a bit like Chowchescu 1:15:17.200 --> 1:15:19.320 did put them out in the square to try to 1:15:19.400 --> 1:15:21.479 show the sort of everyone else in the nation that 1:15:21.640 --> 1:15:24.320 isn't really backing their own government and would be kind 1:15:24.320 --> 1:15:27.479 of keen for regime change that actually know the majority 1:15:27.520 --> 1:15:29.400 are with us. They still want death to America or 1:15:29.520 --> 1:15:31.719 Israel still the Great Satan, all this sort of stuff. 1:15:32.560 --> 1:15:34.479 So it'll be fascinating, as I said at the top 1:15:34.520 --> 1:15:38.400 of the show, to see where this goes. The Americans 1:15:38.439 --> 1:15:41.640 and the Israelis have softened up the regime to the 1:15:41.720 --> 1:15:45.280 point they've never been this week before. It's probably the 1:15:45.280 --> 1:15:47.360 weakest there've been since they took power over the show 1:15:47.400 --> 1:15:52.519 of nineteen seventy nine. So there is an opportunity here 1:15:52.560 --> 1:15:55.680 for internal regime change if the Iranian people rise up. 1:15:56.320 --> 1:15:59.400 But it has to be insular. It has to be organic. 1:16:00.240 --> 1:16:06.040 This can't be some sort of CIAM six orchestrated coup 1:16:07.120 --> 1:16:09.719 that's not going to work. It has to be real 1:16:09.840 --> 1:16:13.400 and natural. And if that happens, the world will be 1:16:13.400 --> 1:16:16.000 a better place. And you know, militarily, this is the thing. 1:16:16.040 --> 1:16:17.599 A lot of this is why I don't understand why 1:16:17.640 --> 1:16:19.760 it took our government forever to come out like they 1:16:19.840 --> 1:16:22.439 finally did today and say, you know what, actually, now 1:16:22.479 --> 1:16:25.759 Iran can't have nuclear weapons and the bombings Aka, because 1:16:25.920 --> 1:16:30.000 if you eradicate the leverage that Iran has, if you 1:16:30.120 --> 1:16:36.439 can somehow create a change of government over there, you can, 1:16:36.600 --> 1:16:38.599 from a Western point of view, certainly an American point 1:16:38.600 --> 1:16:41.560 of view, start to withdraw some of your strike capacity 1:16:41.640 --> 1:16:44.120 from that part of the world and move it to Asia, 1:16:45.439 --> 1:16:48.160 and that would be in Australia's best interests. Iran is 1:16:48.200 --> 1:16:51.360 an Australia's threat China potentially, as we were discussing earlier 1:16:51.400 --> 1:16:54.720 with Michael Pembroke, understanding the history why it is the 1:16:54.760 --> 1:16:56.960 way it is. But if the Americans can start to 1:16:57.439 --> 1:17:00.840 withdraw some fight and strike capability out of the Middle East, 1:17:00.880 --> 1:17:03.920 out of the Persian Gulf and move it around to Asia, 1:17:05.240 --> 1:17:08.479 well then that's in our best interests. Right, So it's 1:17:08.520 --> 1:17:11.160 in Australia's best interest to try to bring about change 1:17:11.240 --> 1:17:14.360 in Iran. You're not going to do that. If the 1:17:14.479 --> 1:17:16.760 Mullers and the Eye are Toller and the Henchmen and 1:17:17.520 --> 1:17:20.840 the Revolutionary Guard Corps and all of these pollukas, if 1:17:20.920 --> 1:17:26.000 they have strong missile capability and uranium at the point 1:17:26.120 --> 1:17:28.280 of being enriched that it could be put in a warhead. 1:17:29.840 --> 1:17:32.280 That's got to stop. And so that seems to have 1:17:32.640 --> 1:17:35.200 been stopped and let's just see what plays out in 1:17:35.240 --> 1:17:36.720 the coming days. Of course, there are going to be 1:17:36.760 --> 1:17:38.360 impacts on a lot of people, and as you know, 1:17:38.560 --> 1:17:40.519 I'm about to take a bunch of listeners over to 1:17:40.600 --> 1:17:45.000 Europe and many people will be flying via the Middle East, 1:17:45.160 --> 1:17:47.599 so there will be people in that tour group, no doubt, 1:17:48.080 --> 1:17:51.080 keeping an eye on flights and all the rest of it. 1:17:51.640 --> 1:17:55.200 Airlines carrying Australians to Europe have started switching their roots, 1:17:55.720 --> 1:17:59.080 according to The Herald, to avoid the whole Middle East region. 1:18:00.040 --> 1:18:03.839 Hitar Airways, which flies daily from Australia cities to Doha 1:18:04.120 --> 1:18:06.960 in Qatar, says that the ongoing situation will require some 1:18:07.040 --> 1:18:11.639 schedule changes to strengthen the connectivity. Others have already started 1:18:11.720 --> 1:18:14.400 changing their routes. I think I read yesterday that for 1:18:15.720 --> 1:18:19.680 Sunday and Monday, British Airways have decided not to fly 1:18:19.920 --> 1:18:24.800 into even Dubai Singapore Airlines I believe the same and 1:18:25.560 --> 1:18:29.200 KLM Royal Dutch. I'd think they're avoiding the area for 1:18:29.360 --> 1:18:32.240 the time being. Look that might change by Wednesday they 1:18:32.280 --> 1:18:33.840 but Tuesday they might be going back in. I don't know. 1:18:34.720 --> 1:18:36.960 But when you think that Abu Dhabi and Dubai, two 1:18:37.000 --> 1:18:39.400 of the main hubs for the Australian population, and Katar, 1:18:39.800 --> 1:18:42.400 and they're all within spinning distance of each other, right 1:18:42.520 --> 1:18:45.080 up there near the Straits of Hamutz, which the Auranians 1:18:45.160 --> 1:18:48.320 might want to close, which will mean the Americans will 1:18:48.320 --> 1:18:51.720 probably try to pound the Iranian ships with missiles from 1:18:51.800 --> 1:18:58.479 submarines that are based further away. Then you know, it's 1:18:58.560 --> 1:19:02.240 a risky proposition flying commercial airlines into that hub. So 1:19:02.680 --> 1:19:05.640 Australian travelers, and we are great travelers, Our passports are 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:09.120 some of the most stamped passports in the world. We 1:19:09.280 --> 1:19:11.880 are going to have to just keep a watching brief 1:19:12.400 --> 1:19:14.400 on what's happening in the Middle East because at any 1:19:14.439 --> 1:19:17.240 moment your flight might be diverted change council, who knows. 1:19:17.280 --> 1:19:19.400 So stay across all of that, obviously with your airlines. 1:19:21.640 --> 1:19:23.720 These Winter wheel. 1:19:25.000 --> 1:19:26.960 Now don't call yet, don't call yet, but I'm giving 1:19:27.000 --> 1:19:29.000 you the warning between now and three o'clock where you're 1:19:29.000 --> 1:19:31.200 going to be hearing that roulette wheel kind of sound. 1:19:31.360 --> 1:19:33.960 That is our Winter Wheel. And we've got stacks of prizes, 1:19:34.000 --> 1:19:36.800 forty thousand dollars worth of cash and prizes to be one. 1:19:36.840 --> 1:19:39.280 As you know we've been giving away thousands and thousands 1:19:39.320 --> 1:19:41.640 of dollars. I think Mark gave way seven hundred and 1:19:41.680 --> 1:19:44.519 fifty dollars today ben earlyer five hundred. We want to 1:19:44.560 --> 1:19:46.519 get into the four digits at least, so we've got 1:19:46.600 --> 1:19:50.040 lucky fingers hands and over there he'll spin the wheel. Look, 1:19:50.200 --> 1:19:51.920 I can't guarantee it, but I reckon you get at 1:19:51.960 --> 1:19:54.360 least one thousand. So when you hear that, I want 1:19:54.360 --> 1:19:58.479 you to call later on the prize line and good 1:19:58.560 --> 1:20:01.360 luck one three, one eight. We'll take a break and more. Yes, 1:20:01.400 --> 1:20:03.880 I stay listening. Later this hour we will spend that 1:20:04.000 --> 1:20:06.280 winter wheel and good luck. I hope we can give 1:20:06.320 --> 1:20:10.080 you a great prize. This just threw from the people 1:20:10.120 --> 1:20:13.559 behind IgA. Well that's met cash, of course, and it's 1:20:13.600 --> 1:20:15.719 to do with tobacco revenue. I mean, look, the evidence 1:20:15.880 --> 1:20:18.840 just keeps stacking up here. Government, I'll do nothing about it. 1:20:19.200 --> 1:20:22.840 But tobacco revenue fell a fifth in the year to April, 1:20:22.920 --> 1:20:25.800 at IGA's pair and company met cash. The slump in 1:20:25.960 --> 1:20:30.439 legal tobacco sales accelerating, according to the Guardian, as the 1:20:30.520 --> 1:20:33.920 illicit cigarette trade takes over the market. Tobacco was still 1:20:33.960 --> 1:20:36.160 a major pillar of the grocery sales. So they counted 1:20:36.200 --> 1:20:38.960 for one point eight billion of the company's ten point 1:20:39.000 --> 1:20:41.840 eight billion in food segment revenue. So it's a very 1:20:41.880 --> 1:20:44.600 good chunk, but it's down. They're down four hundred and 1:20:44.680 --> 1:20:49.240 fifty million dollars from last year, and I think the 1:20:49.280 --> 1:20:51.960 better part of a billion from the year before. Anyway, 1:20:52.040 --> 1:20:54.920 the company said that the decline was due to a 1:20:55.000 --> 1:20:59.719 continued sharp rise in illicit tobacco sales at a quote 1:20:59.800 --> 1:21:03.280 largely ineffective end quote. Police response. Well, all that's true, 1:21:03.600 --> 1:21:07.160 but the police can only do so much. This isn't 1:21:07.200 --> 1:21:09.600 really a policing matter. This is a government matter. The 1:21:09.680 --> 1:21:12.120 government have created the market, the federal government with excise, 1:21:12.560 --> 1:21:14.479 and they will do nothing about it. Now. Jim Charmers 1:21:14.479 --> 1:21:16.720 will speak to a legal spender later this hour. Jim 1:21:16.840 --> 1:21:19.400 Charmers wants to have a productivity in a tax roundtable. Good, 1:21:19.840 --> 1:21:22.040 we need it desperately, We needed it ten years ago. 1:21:23.040 --> 1:21:25.000 But I bet the tobacco excise won't be on the 1:21:25.040 --> 1:21:28.120 agenda because it's just an easy earner, right, It's just 1:21:28.160 --> 1:21:30.479 a syntax. Oh well, there's an easy way to avoid it. 1:21:30.520 --> 1:21:33.160 Don't smoke, say the non smokers, which are the vast majority. 1:21:33.680 --> 1:21:38.040 But what that attitude has done is incubate and fertilize 1:21:38.080 --> 1:21:42.000 the ground for the criminal networks to make a motza. 1:21:42.760 --> 1:21:45.920 So people are still smoking, they're just smoking illegal product, 1:21:46.520 --> 1:21:49.559 and so the health system is not getting the tax benefit, 1:21:50.040 --> 1:21:52.960 which was the quid pro quo with keeping cigarettes legal. 1:21:53.880 --> 1:21:56.240 But people are still getting lung cancers and mphysema, everything 1:21:56.280 --> 1:22:00.320 and dying. It's just they're not paying via taxes because 1:22:00.320 --> 1:22:03.599 they're not buying legal cigarettes for their care in hospital. 1:22:03.640 --> 1:22:06.519 When they do. I mean, that's just the crude nub 1:22:06.560 --> 1:22:09.679 of it and look to be blood. I don't blame 1:22:09.760 --> 1:22:13.439 the smokers for going and buying the illicit product when 1:22:13.520 --> 1:22:16.599 the legal product has been raised to extortionary levels because 1:22:16.600 --> 1:22:19.559 of government tax I'm not saying that breaking the law 1:22:19.680 --> 1:22:21.439 is good or is in any way to be encouraged. 1:22:21.479 --> 1:22:23.400 I can't say that, and I don't, but I can 1:22:23.560 --> 1:22:27.240 understand why people do it otherwise law abiding people, I 1:22:27.280 --> 1:22:29.720 can understand why they do it. But of course in 1:22:29.880 --> 1:22:32.680 so doing, you are also part of the problem. You're 1:22:32.720 --> 1:22:34.479 helping your own bottom line. You've got to feed the kids, 1:22:34.479 --> 1:22:36.120 you've got to pay the mortgage. I get it. But equally, 1:22:36.560 --> 1:22:38.679 you are funneling a huge amount of money into biking 1:22:38.760 --> 1:22:41.120 gangs and all sorts of foreign cartels and criminals. That's 1:22:41.160 --> 1:22:43.800 bad because they do other things with that money which 1:22:43.800 --> 1:22:47.759 are really, really bad. So the whole story, the whole nexus, 1:22:47.760 --> 1:22:52.120 has to be broken. But you know, only government can 1:22:52.160 --> 1:22:54.280 do it, and there just doesn't seem to be the 1:22:54.360 --> 1:22:57.600 coordinated appetite to do it. Are they more addicted to 1:22:57.680 --> 1:23:00.720 the revenue than the smokers are to the nicotina? One 1:23:00.800 --> 1:23:12.920 three one eight seven three now one afternoons the Track 1:23:13.000 --> 1:23:14.960 of the Day. Okay, let's get this out of the 1:23:15.000 --> 1:23:16.640 way because we often miss out on this and we 1:23:16.720 --> 1:23:18.320 love doing Track of the Day. I've got one hundred 1:23:18.320 --> 1:23:20.599 and fifty dollars. BE Store voucher on the line. They 1:23:20.680 --> 1:23:23.719 do good things. BE Store your shoes. You're gonna love comfort, 1:23:23.760 --> 1:23:29.160 you'll live in. B Store brings your Birkenstock, Blundstone, fit Flop, MBT, 1:23:29.360 --> 1:23:31.599 Franky four and more. You can visit them at Macquarie Center, 1:23:31.600 --> 1:23:35.240 of course, Westfield Miranda as well. Style starts there. B Store. 1:23:35.320 --> 1:23:36.880 If you want one hundred dollars, one hundred and fifty 1:23:36.880 --> 1:23:39.240 dollars rather voucher to all of that. One three one 1:23:39.360 --> 1:23:42.800 eight seven three. So who am I questioned today? Who 1:23:42.880 --> 1:23:45.960 am I? Known as the voice of rugby. I've been 1:23:46.000 --> 1:23:50.200 broadcasting Rugby International since nineteen seventy six. I've led commentary 1:23:50.280 --> 1:23:53.439 teams with the BBC Network, ten Fox Sports. I even 1:23:53.479 --> 1:23:56.080 worked with two GB on the twenty twenty four Paris 1:23:56.120 --> 1:23:59.040 Olympics coverage. By the way, I'm a really decent human being. 1:23:59.439 --> 1:24:02.280 Who am I? I'll give you some thinking music, some 1:24:02.439 --> 1:24:05.519 great voices here, Shirley Bassie and Brent terfal All right, 1:24:05.560 --> 1:24:07.880 let's find a winner and he rugby nuts out there? 1:24:07.920 --> 1:24:09.920 How good's out the world in union? I will have 1:24:09.960 --> 1:24:11.200 a bit more of that in a second. Sean, you 1:24:11.280 --> 1:24:13.240 were first? Three? Where's the answer? Who were after? 1:24:13.920 --> 1:24:15.439 Hey, Gordon Brain, it is. 1:24:15.439 --> 1:24:18.080 Made Gordon Bray the birthday boy for listening. Gordon, Happy 1:24:18.200 --> 1:24:20.519 birthday to you. Hey, SEW one hundred and fifty dollars 1:24:20.640 --> 1:24:23.479 B Store voucher coming your way. Hang on there, we'll 1:24:23.520 --> 1:24:24.439 grab your details. 1:24:24.680 --> 1:24:24.880 Yeah. 1:24:25.240 --> 1:24:27.680 See, the rugby League could take I just think a 1:24:27.760 --> 1:24:30.160 little leaf out of that book, you know with the 1:24:30.240 --> 1:24:32.880 pre match entertainment, just saying, you know, get some really 1:24:32.920 --> 1:24:35.599 good things, you know, one three, one eight seven three. 1:24:35.680 --> 1:24:37.479 But I think a little bit of trivia. I believe 1:24:37.840 --> 1:24:43.760 that was. I think Dame Shirley's contribution was pre recorded. 1:24:44.360 --> 1:24:47.280 I think in Cardiff. I don't think she sung live. 1:24:48.200 --> 1:24:50.760 I think Brin did, I think, but I don't think 1:24:50.800 --> 1:24:55.040 she did. And when you watch the replay it does 1:24:55.120 --> 1:24:56.680 though every now and then she has been out of sink, 1:24:57.280 --> 1:25:00.439 so I think, I don't you know if he's from 1:25:01.200 --> 1:25:04.479 Monica wherever she is, good afternoon to you. Surely you're 1:25:04.479 --> 1:25:07.040 a superstar. But I've got a feeling that she didn't 1:25:07.080 --> 1:25:09.000 do that one live in Wales one three one eight 1:25:09.040 --> 1:25:11.519 seven three. Speaking of sporting matters, by the way, I've 1:25:11.520 --> 1:25:14.200 got a press release today. I'm not sure this is 1:25:14.280 --> 1:25:16.840 going to happen, but it says a competitive card game 1:25:16.920 --> 1:25:19.559 built on collectible monsters might not seem like a traditional 1:25:19.640 --> 1:25:22.799 Olympic sport, but a growing number of Australians are calling 1:25:23.000 --> 1:25:29.800 for it to be taken seriously. This is Pokemon, Pokemon. 1:25:30.640 --> 1:25:31.960 Do you think that's going to get a run at 1:25:31.960 --> 1:25:34.880 the Olympics, even in Brisbane? I don't think, Sam, but 1:25:35.000 --> 1:25:38.640 it says here ahead of collect Fest, which is Australia's 1:25:39.040 --> 1:25:43.479 largest festival of collections, and organizers are preparing to host 1:25:43.560 --> 1:25:48.200 a full format Pokemon trading card game tournament that rivals 1:25:48.280 --> 1:25:55.759 Olympic competition. Screaming hyperbole to me, the event is already 1:25:55.840 --> 1:25:59.200 making waves. I'm told there's a changeot org petition, of course, 1:25:59.240 --> 1:26:03.320 there is launched recently calling on Australian Olympic Committee CEO 1:26:03.680 --> 1:26:08.240 Mark Abibb to consider the game for inclusion in future 1:26:08.439 --> 1:26:14.719 Olympic programming, starting with Brisbane twenty thirty two. Now, Mark's 1:26:14.720 --> 1:26:18.120 a pretty decent bloke. He'll get that and reply politely 1:26:18.400 --> 1:26:21.680 in the negative. I'd imagine, mind you, We've had breakdancing, 1:26:21.800 --> 1:26:24.160 we've had parkour, We've had all sorts of weird and 1:26:24.200 --> 1:26:27.200 wonderful things. So you know what's not to like about 1:26:27.200 --> 1:26:32.400 a bunch of sort of adolescents trading Pikachu cards at 1:26:32.439 --> 1:26:36.200 the highest levels. Maybe the end. Here's an idea, Clinton, 1:26:36.240 --> 1:26:38.160 I'll bring you in here before we hear your official music. 1:26:38.200 --> 1:26:41.240 Of course, why don't we give this to the enhanced 1:26:41.320 --> 1:26:45.680 games first and see how the steroidal types go. 1:26:46.479 --> 1:26:49.839 How do performance enhancing drugs help you when you play Pokemon? 1:26:49.920 --> 1:26:51.160 Well? Quick, you got to be quick. You've got to 1:26:51.200 --> 1:26:53.040 catch them all. You've got to be fast, right, you 1:26:53.120 --> 1:26:55.479 know You've got Sye Duck and Pikachu and who are 1:26:55.479 --> 1:26:55.800 the others. 1:26:55.840 --> 1:26:57.360 See, I'm not a cross this issue. 1:26:57.439 --> 1:26:57.840 Yes you are. 1:26:59.120 --> 1:27:02.840 You're showing your age. It's you know, Pokemon was popular 1:27:02.880 --> 1:27:06.080 twenty years ago as well. Yeah, but see when you're 1:27:06.080 --> 1:27:08.320 in your thirties, you might have. 1:27:08.320 --> 1:27:09.400 Just been prime territory. 1:27:09.439 --> 1:27:12.519 When you were twelve, it was I remember my brother 1:27:12.600 --> 1:27:14.600 bless him, he said he had he was into this. 1:27:14.840 --> 1:27:16.200 I never saw the sense. 1:27:16.240 --> 1:27:18.240 This is where you were chasing them around the suburbs. 1:27:18.360 --> 1:27:20.360 No, no, no, no, this is the original thing. We 1:27:20.400 --> 1:27:22.479 had the cartoons, you had the cards, just the cards. 1:27:22.520 --> 1:27:24.320 Because after that there was a version where you actually, 1:27:24.560 --> 1:27:25.519 yeah Pokemon go. 1:27:26.280 --> 1:27:28.160 Yeah, this where people almost getting hit by cars and 1:27:28.240 --> 1:27:30.760 that's turning up in cemeteries and ridiculous crazy stuff. 1:27:30.800 --> 1:27:31.679 That was before ebikes. 1:27:31.880 --> 1:27:33.479 Yeah. So my brother said to me, look, I got 1:27:33.560 --> 1:27:35.000 to hold onto some of these cards. They could be 1:27:35.040 --> 1:27:37.400 worth something one days and made you're kidding, so get 1:27:37.520 --> 1:27:42.240 rid of them. He was right, he's doing a lot 1:27:42.320 --> 1:27:43.960 better than night. Let's have the official music. 1:27:44.640 --> 1:27:47.680 It's that time of the afternoon. Time to find out 1:27:47.840 --> 1:27:49.280 what's coming up on Sydney. 1:27:49.360 --> 1:27:52.920 Now for the Serrato successor, the turbo charged Kia K 1:27:53.200 --> 1:27:57.240 four kias on new small sedan GT line very into available. 1:27:57.280 --> 1:28:01.320 Now we'll find out more about Kia's latest small Okay. 1:28:01.160 --> 1:28:03.799 Officially here he is Clinton Maynard at Squire. He's hosting 1:28:03.960 --> 1:28:06.479 Sydney now straight after three o'clock. What's coming up? 1:28:06.640 --> 1:28:09.920 Especial investigation to Pokemon. Daniel Milkey holds hands down the 1:28:09.960 --> 1:28:12.680 state budget tomorrow. Now most of the detail has been 1:28:12.760 --> 1:28:15.760 leaked out already, but my spies are telling me. My 1:28:15.880 --> 1:28:17.760 spies are telling me. When the journalists are locked up 1:28:17.800 --> 1:28:20.560 for four hours tomorrow there will be a line in 1:28:20.640 --> 1:28:23.400 the budget about expenditure on Pokemon. And this will all 1:28:23.479 --> 1:28:26.120 be in preparation for the Brisbane thirty two Olympics. 1:28:26.200 --> 1:28:28.240 Why are we funding their games? Didn't we already fund 1:28:28.240 --> 1:28:29.160 their COVID response? 1:28:29.240 --> 1:28:30.680 I think all we should fund is a rowing we 1:28:30.760 --> 1:28:33.599 should the rowing should be in Sydney, surely, okay, put 1:28:33.640 --> 1:28:36.479 the Pokemon to one side. Surely with the crocodile infested 1:28:36.560 --> 1:28:40.360 Fitzroy River, the rowing venue should be Penrith. 1:28:41.000 --> 1:28:43.160 Wasn't there a big dam behind waven couldn't they do 1:28:43.200 --> 1:28:44.960 it in there? No crocs in there? 1:28:45.160 --> 1:28:47.680 But they were insisting on the Fitzroy River, and I 1:28:47.760 --> 1:28:49.640 know that the French are coming out to inspect the 1:28:49.720 --> 1:28:51.120 river in the next couple of weeks. 1:28:51.200 --> 1:28:53.400 Because yeah, I meant, let's face it, they've had events 1:28:53.439 --> 1:28:56.679 on really great rivers. The French work, well there really 1:28:56.720 --> 1:28:59.280 good idea. Yeah, so they're the experts. All right, what else? 1:28:59.439 --> 1:29:01.200 But we're going to have a look at some research 1:29:01.280 --> 1:29:03.960 that's been released today from the UK that shows getting 1:29:04.000 --> 1:29:07.000 too much sleep could be deadly. Now, we both have 1:29:07.040 --> 1:29:09.679 a lot of experience in this area as former overnight 1:29:09.720 --> 1:29:12.240 presenters on this radio station of the opposite not getting 1:29:12.320 --> 1:29:15.000 enough sleep, and of course all the research is always 1:29:15.000 --> 1:29:17.200 indicated that if you don't get enough sleep, a good 1:29:17.240 --> 1:29:19.400 seven to eight hours, that you're shortening your life. 1:29:19.600 --> 1:29:24.639 Look at us, we should see who, I don't know management, 1:29:24.960 --> 1:29:27.120 do you reckon a class action? We'll get phill O'Neil 1:29:27.160 --> 1:29:31.280 in and we'll get him Mike Jeffreys Dale. Dale Dale 1:29:31.280 --> 1:29:34.759 would be the lead claimate. Maybe we should go for broke. 1:29:37.320 --> 1:29:43.040 You're listening, there's an idea, but this this research, we 1:29:43.080 --> 1:29:46.120 weren't getting enough sleep. This research indicates that you can 1:29:46.160 --> 1:29:49.080 get too much sleep and it can cause health problems, 1:29:49.120 --> 1:29:49.960 including stroke. 1:29:50.520 --> 1:29:54.639 So I'll speak to a sleep expert the Goldilock syndrome. 1:29:54.800 --> 1:29:57.799 Yes, we'll also be across exactly as you've been reporting 1:29:58.120 --> 1:30:01.040 what's happening off Freshwater this afternoon with the whale, the 1:30:01.120 --> 1:30:03.519 hump back whale that is still tangled up in this 1:30:03.600 --> 1:30:05.880 one hundred and fifty meter long line. And I've been 1:30:05.960 --> 1:30:08.839 watching the Channel nine helicoptuck around the tailors. 1:30:08.960 --> 1:30:09.800 Yeah, it appears so. 1:30:09.920 --> 1:30:13.719 And there's three people, three rescuers in this red dinghy 1:30:14.080 --> 1:30:16.840 who are like they're conducting almost a battle with the whale. 1:30:16.840 --> 1:30:18.720 Now they're not battling the whale. They are trying to 1:30:18.800 --> 1:30:21.320 help the whale at the moment, but it's certainly quite 1:30:21.360 --> 1:30:23.080 a significant operation off the coast. So we'll get the 1:30:23.160 --> 1:30:25.400 latest on that just after three o'clock. And we'll also 1:30:25.439 --> 1:30:27.360 have a look at what's happening at Westmead Hospital. So 1:30:27.479 --> 1:30:30.759 there's been a protest with nurses and midwives railing outside 1:30:30.800 --> 1:30:34.040 the hospital about resources in the maternity area, the suggestions 1:30:34.080 --> 1:30:38.520 today that babies are being treated in storerooms and corridors. 1:30:38.760 --> 1:30:42.320 Now the government, I've spoken to people within government today. 1:30:42.360 --> 1:30:45.080 They insist they're not being treated in corridors, but they 1:30:45.160 --> 1:30:47.400 do concede yes, there's a big problem with resources and 1:30:47.479 --> 1:30:49.639 the health. Mister Ryan Park will actually be at Westmead 1:30:49.680 --> 1:30:52.200 this week to meet with the staff and the management. 1:30:52.760 --> 1:30:56.360 Now, I mean that's terrible, but of course the more 1:30:56.439 --> 1:30:59.920 we just push the population up, and particularly in these 1:31:00.120 --> 1:31:05.759 parts of Sydney without the requisite infrastructure beat schools, hospital beds, 1:31:06.120 --> 1:31:08.760 parking facilities, whatever, we're just going to get more and 1:31:08.800 --> 1:31:09.639 more of these stories aren't. 1:31:09.720 --> 1:31:12.280 And it's not just the infrastructure, it's also the people 1:31:12.400 --> 1:31:16.639 in soilled. I've been to Campbelltown Hospital, the new Campbelltown 1:31:16.640 --> 1:31:19.760 Hospital on neuisccasions for different media events and might not 1:31:19.840 --> 1:31:20.880 be this case of the moment, it has been the 1:31:20.960 --> 1:31:23.719 last few years. There has been wards in Campbelltown Hospital 1:31:23.800 --> 1:31:25.640 that over the last couple of years have not been 1:31:25.680 --> 1:31:28.840 fully operational and they don't have the nurses. So it's 1:31:29.000 --> 1:31:31.479 both resources and it's people. So we'll look at that 1:31:31.560 --> 1:31:33.880 as well. Plus we will be spinning the winter wheel 1:31:33.960 --> 1:31:36.759 because on the Sydney Now program we have wonderful success 1:31:37.439 --> 1:31:38.840 in giving away large amounts of money. 1:31:38.920 --> 1:31:40.880 Yes, you were gloating this morning with Mark, weren't you. 1:31:40.880 --> 1:31:43.479 Two and a half thousand dollars on Friday. I've got 1:31:43.520 --> 1:31:44.160 the magic. 1:31:43.960 --> 1:31:46.519 Touch you do you do know though, that twenty five 1:31:46.520 --> 1:31:48.720 percent comes out of your salary, for that's part of 1:31:48.760 --> 1:31:51.439 the fine print. That's why Ben and Mark are happy 1:31:51.479 --> 1:31:52.639 to give away the low hundreds. 1:31:52.760 --> 1:31:55.120 Well, I'll be very happy to see the National Tiles, Denter, 1:31:55.160 --> 1:31:56.679 Genie and Origin tickets go off today. 1:31:56.800 --> 1:31:59.400 O case right, yes, all three at once? Thank you? 1:32:00.600 --> 1:32:03.240 He very well done at cludon Maynard was Sydney now 1:32:03.400 --> 1:32:09.559 in half an hour from now? All right, error, let's 1:32:09.560 --> 1:32:11.320 go to you. Good afternoon, Good afternoon. 1:32:11.360 --> 1:32:13.880 Michael and Rescue Cruz have been close to that whale 1:32:13.880 --> 1:32:15.640 off the Northern Beaches as they try to free it 1:32:15.680 --> 1:32:17.639 from one hundred and fifty meters of rope and four 1:32:17.680 --> 1:32:19.880 boys that they have had to pull back after it 1:32:19.960 --> 1:32:22.920 started thrashing its tail. The Prime Minister won't say if 1:32:22.920 --> 1:32:26.320 Australia provided any support for the US bombing of Iran 1:32:26.760 --> 1:32:29.240 retailer The Good Guys will pay thirteen and a half 1:32:29.320 --> 1:32:33.080 million dollars for running miss leading store credit promotions and 1:32:33.240 --> 1:32:36.200 researchers have found a link between exposure to a stress 1:32:36.280 --> 1:32:41.120 hormone in the womb and an increased risk of cardiovascular disease. 1:32:40.920 --> 1:32:41.599 Later in life. 1:32:42.000 --> 1:32:44.400 In sport a double blow for the Eels after their 1:32:44.439 --> 1:32:46.599 big win over the Titans. In the NL Center, Will 1:32:46.640 --> 1:32:49.400 Pennessini will face a four match ban and hooker Riley 1:32:49.439 --> 1:32:52.760 Smith of three match ban, both for dangerous throws. There'll 1:32:52.800 --> 1:32:54.400 be more news at three o'clock. 1:32:54.560 --> 1:32:58.919 On afternoons, a finance update for Pretzel Wealth and finance 1:32:59.120 --> 1:33:01.400 for Trusted Finance Planning Just Google. 1:33:01.640 --> 1:33:03.280 Blake went to Pretzel. 1:33:02.960 --> 1:33:05.160 Twenty eight and a half to three. Tom Story, the 1:33:05.200 --> 1:33:07.720 executive producer of Money News, in with us today. Of 1:33:07.800 --> 1:33:10.880 course he's there with deb each week night doing wonderful 1:33:10.960 --> 1:33:13.000 job with Money News. To talk finest Tom Good afternoon. 1:33:13.080 --> 1:33:13.679 Oh Michael. 1:33:14.400 --> 1:33:17.840 Now, obviously the big stories are run. Oil prices have jumped. 1:33:17.840 --> 1:33:19.760 They were going up last week in anticipation. 1:33:20.160 --> 1:33:22.240 Just how much have the risen, Well, you were talking 1:33:22.280 --> 1:33:24.240 about gold a bit earlier, but it's all about oil. 1:33:24.479 --> 1:33:27.120 The way that market started today, Brent crews rose to 1:33:27.200 --> 1:33:29.160 as much as eighty dollars a barrel at the start 1:33:29.200 --> 1:33:31.840 of today's trade. It has come back slightly since it's 1:33:31.880 --> 1:33:34.040 trading at around seventy eight dollars a barrel right now, 1:33:34.760 --> 1:33:35.759 US dollars a barrel. 1:33:35.840 --> 1:33:35.960 Now. 1:33:36.080 --> 1:33:37.800 At the start of May, we saw it fall as 1:33:37.840 --> 1:33:40.000 low as sixty dollars dollars a barrel, so it has 1:33:40.040 --> 1:33:42.439 been a huge leap over the last two weeks. Obviously, 1:33:42.520 --> 1:33:44.400 there are concerns over whether or not the strait of 1:33:44.479 --> 1:33:46.679 horn Moves is closed, and if that were to happen, 1:33:46.920 --> 1:33:51.120 getting oil over to Australia would be quite a supply challenge. Now, 1:33:51.240 --> 1:33:53.160 if we go back to twenty twenty two, when you 1:33:53.240 --> 1:33:55.960 look at what happened there when we had oil challenges there, 1:33:56.000 --> 1:33:58.200 it rose to about one hundred and twenty dollars US 1:33:58.280 --> 1:34:02.680 of barrel. That saw obviously inflationary impacts right across the 1:34:02.720 --> 1:34:05.479 world and obviously through Australia as well. So we've got 1:34:05.520 --> 1:34:07.360 to watch this oil price because it could have a 1:34:07.439 --> 1:34:10.800 real impact on the inflationary settings. I spoke to a 1:34:10.840 --> 1:34:13.200 Comwealth Bank analyst a couple of weeks ago. He said 1:34:13.560 --> 1:34:15.560 that if we get to eighty dollars a barrel, it 1:34:15.640 --> 1:34:17.880 should be around two dollars a liter at the petrol 1:34:17.920 --> 1:34:20.840 pump as a national average. So people, if they are 1:34:21.040 --> 1:34:22.920 looking at the oil price, I'm worried about what they're 1:34:22.920 --> 1:34:24.840 going to be paying at the petrol pump, expect around 1:34:24.880 --> 1:34:27.440 two dollars a leader in the foreseeable future. 1:34:27.320 --> 1:34:30.479 Because the Australian dollar is still pretty soft. So this 1:34:30.640 --> 1:34:32.680 is all priced against US dollars out of Singapore and 1:34:32.720 --> 1:34:33.920 whatever isn't this that's right, and the. 1:34:33.920 --> 1:34:36.800 Australian dollars actually fallen today. It's come back over the 1:34:36.840 --> 1:34:39.880 weekends around sixty four US since we were up around 1:34:39.960 --> 1:34:42.680 sixty five last week, so down about a cent. 1:34:42.840 --> 1:34:44.960 We can hit both ways. Plus the texts keep going up. 1:34:45.280 --> 1:34:47.400 What about the markets and the dollar broadly top well, 1:34:47.400 --> 1:34:49.400 the share market, obviously on the threat of war, started 1:34:49.439 --> 1:34:52.200 the day weaker market slab certainty and war is no 1:34:52.280 --> 1:34:54.840 certainty for anyone. It has recovered a little bit since 1:34:54.840 --> 1:34:58.800 around midday. Most sectors are trading down. Unsurprisingly, Energy stocks 1:34:58.800 --> 1:35:01.200 are higher, Woodside and See and Toss both higher today. 1:35:01.720 --> 1:35:05.080 The ASX two hundreds down zero point four percent. The 1:35:05.160 --> 1:35:08.639 All Lord's also down point four percent. US futures looking 1:35:08.720 --> 1:35:11.559 at them for tonight, they're starting weaker. Of course, they 1:35:11.600 --> 1:35:13.880 haven't been open since we saw the attacks on Iran 1:35:14.000 --> 1:35:16.759 during the week. So watch what the US does overnight 1:35:16.800 --> 1:35:19.439 and how their markets react and tonight on Money News, I. 1:35:19.560 --> 1:35:20.320 Have to give a plug. 1:35:20.479 --> 1:35:22.160 Scott Hayward's host in the show We're going to talk 1:35:22.160 --> 1:35:25.120 to Van Neck about one of its defense ETFs. It 1:35:25.240 --> 1:35:28.040 gives it investors a chance to look at companies involved 1:35:28.040 --> 1:35:28.759 in military actions. 1:35:28.760 --> 1:35:30.120 I'm going to ask you keep an eye on some 1:35:30.240 --> 1:35:31.880 of those the Rathians of this world. 1:35:32.000 --> 1:35:34.760 That's exactly right, because war does provide some money for 1:35:34.840 --> 1:35:36.880 some people out there. So have a listener Money Years. 1:35:36.880 --> 1:35:38.000 Tonight we'll tell you about what's. 1:35:37.880 --> 1:35:39.040 Going on that will be fascinating. 1:35:39.080 --> 1:35:41.000 I will do as we do. Thank you Tom. Thank 1:35:41.080 --> 1:35:43.200 Tom Story executive producer does a great job too of 1:35:43.240 --> 1:35:44.960 money news. He will keep us up to date this 1:35:45.040 --> 1:35:47.640 week on the markets. It's twenty six minutes to three. 1:35:47.680 --> 1:35:50.240 Will take a break speaking financial matters. After the break, 1:35:50.280 --> 1:35:54.000 Illegal spender will join me. The member for Wentworth. She's 1:35:54.000 --> 1:35:56.720 been advocating now very openly for a while that we 1:35:56.880 --> 1:36:00.760 need significant taxation reform in this country. She's right, but 1:36:00.880 --> 1:36:02.479 I wonder what she has in mind. We'll have a 1:36:02.560 --> 1:36:04.080 chat after this. All right, good to be with you. 1:36:04.200 --> 1:36:06.800 Twenty two to three one three, one eight seven three. 1:36:06.800 --> 1:36:08.640 All right, we're going to talk tax Let's not have 1:36:08.760 --> 1:36:11.160 the eyes glaze over. I know it can be a 1:36:11.240 --> 1:36:14.840 bit much, but if we don't get this right, we're 1:36:14.880 --> 1:36:18.000 all poorer. So something's got to be done. And there's 1:36:18.040 --> 1:36:20.160 some staggering numbers out today when it comes to tax 1:36:20.200 --> 1:36:22.280 in this country. So it turns out business is here, 1:36:23.080 --> 1:36:25.280 or so it's reported, are being hit with more than 1:36:25.320 --> 1:36:28.920 one hundred federal and state government imposed taxes and levies. 1:36:28.960 --> 1:36:31.599 Now that's on top of the rising cost of operating 1:36:31.640 --> 1:36:36.040 a business, and it's it's crazy, right, it's so uncompetitive. 1:36:36.040 --> 1:36:38.559 Who the hell would want to start a business when 1:36:38.600 --> 1:36:41.960 you've got one hundred different lead weights around your ankles. 1:36:43.360 --> 1:36:46.200 And this is the situation now according to the AI Group, 1:36:46.240 --> 1:36:50.599 we're only behind Columbia in this metric. Now, I don't 1:36:50.600 --> 1:36:52.599 think you'd want to be compared to Columbia too often. 1:36:52.960 --> 1:36:54.479 But as we've been pointing out on this show for 1:36:54.600 --> 1:36:57.520 quite a long time, the tax system is becoming ineffective 1:36:58.000 --> 1:37:01.040 as a nation. We're leveraging two heavy off income tax. 1:37:01.640 --> 1:37:05.080 We're punishing businesses with things like payroll tax for doing 1:37:05.160 --> 1:37:07.160 what businesses we would want them to do, and that 1:37:07.280 --> 1:37:09.840 is take people off the unemployment queue and put them 1:37:09.880 --> 1:37:13.760 in private enterprise. And then of course there's old boondoggles 1:37:13.880 --> 1:37:16.600 like stamp duty, which in the original iteration of the 1:37:16.680 --> 1:37:19.800 gst were meant to go, but they stayed and we 1:37:20.080 --> 1:37:23.280 need a solution to that and more. Of course, on 1:37:23.360 --> 1:37:24.760 top of all of that, what do we do about 1:37:24.760 --> 1:37:28.160 stagnant productivity? And as I keep saying, there seems to 1:37:28.200 --> 1:37:30.240 be zero discussion in this space, although I think it 1:37:30.320 --> 1:37:33.639 dovetails in very nicely about one of the big problems, 1:37:33.680 --> 1:37:35.760 and that is not so much how we raise money, 1:37:35.800 --> 1:37:40.800 but how we spend it and the duplication between state 1:37:40.880 --> 1:37:44.680 and Commonwealth agencies which is costing us a fortune. It 1:37:44.800 --> 1:37:46.920 is time for a round table. It is time for 1:37:47.040 --> 1:37:49.640 the talking heads. The Treasurer has said we will have 1:37:49.680 --> 1:37:53.599 a productivity and tax round table. Good, but the importance 1:37:53.640 --> 1:37:55.479 of the veracity that's only going to come from the 1:37:55.640 --> 1:37:58.519 individuals that contribute. Now, someone who's been calling for this 1:37:58.600 --> 1:38:01.639 for a very very long time, Credit is a legal spender. 1:38:01.720 --> 1:38:04.400 She is the MP for Wentworth in the Eastern suburbs 1:38:04.400 --> 1:38:06.639 of Sydney and she's on the line. Good to speak 1:38:06.680 --> 1:38:07.559 Allega again. 1:38:07.400 --> 1:38:10.200 Thank you for your time, Thanks so much for having me. Michael. 1:38:10.920 --> 1:38:13.040 You're a bit of a lone voice. Leading into the 1:38:13.120 --> 1:38:16.120 last election, everyone was talking about two fifths of nothing much. 1:38:16.720 --> 1:38:19.160 You were out there saying, hey, is an opportunity let's 1:38:19.160 --> 1:38:22.320 talk about something important like tax and basically no one 1:38:22.400 --> 1:38:23.360 came along for the ride. 1:38:24.400 --> 1:38:27.240 Well they didn't, but it seems after the election they did. 1:38:27.320 --> 1:38:29.519 And thank you Michael also for being a voice on 1:38:29.600 --> 1:38:33.200 this because it is really important. It does make a difference. 1:38:33.280 --> 1:38:35.760 You know, tax influences all of our lives, whether we 1:38:35.960 --> 1:38:37.840 like it or not, so we do have to really 1:38:37.880 --> 1:38:40.040 talk about it and say, look, is the system working 1:38:40.080 --> 1:38:42.560 as it should and also, as you say, getting the 1:38:42.600 --> 1:38:43.160 spending right. 1:38:43.479 --> 1:38:45.800 Okay, so we're going to give this productivity round table. 1:38:45.880 --> 1:38:49.240 Tax will be the central component of that. A lot 1:38:49.240 --> 1:38:51.080 of people say, y okay, we need tax reform, but 1:38:51.160 --> 1:38:53.719 that no one then puts their ideas on the line 1:38:54.240 --> 1:38:56.080 and says, I think we should look here, or I 1:38:56.080 --> 1:38:57.960 think everyone said, oh, let's just put everything on with 1:38:58.080 --> 1:39:00.439 oble and so nothing ever gets done because you know, 1:39:00.520 --> 1:39:05.080 the table's overlaid and then the legs collapse. So where 1:39:05.120 --> 1:39:06.880 do you think we should be looking. 1:39:08.320 --> 1:39:12.280 Let's start with businesses. I think you're right to say that. 1:39:13.080 --> 1:39:15.800 You know, businesses have lots of complex taxes and some 1:39:15.920 --> 1:39:18.360 taxes that just don't make sense, like payroll tax, and 1:39:18.439 --> 1:39:20.800 that is one where I really worry, particularly, you know, 1:39:20.880 --> 1:39:23.439 with AI going to have an impact on jobs. You know, 1:39:23.520 --> 1:39:27.240 we shouldn't be penalizing companies for hiring people and employing people. 1:39:27.360 --> 1:39:30.160 That should be completely the opposite. But it's always got 1:39:30.200 --> 1:39:32.120 to be a viewer's like, well, if you know, try 1:39:32.200 --> 1:39:35.360 and reduce payroll tax, if you try and drive and 1:39:35.600 --> 1:39:39.160 help make Australia an attractive place for businesses to invest, well, 1:39:39.200 --> 1:39:40.920 how are you going to pay for it? And I 1:39:40.960 --> 1:39:43.000 don't think you can just shift that burden onto you know, 1:39:43.120 --> 1:39:45.320 working people either. So I think this is where we 1:39:45.360 --> 1:39:47.800 need to do it. Well, I know that is what 1:39:47.880 --> 1:39:49.559 we're doing, and so I think we have to look 1:39:49.600 --> 1:39:51.880 at in the business environment like how do we make 1:39:51.960 --> 1:39:54.920 taxes simpler, how do we make it more give it 1:39:55.040 --> 1:39:57.320 greater incentive to invest and make it more attractive for 1:39:57.360 --> 1:39:59.760 overseas companies to invest. But then how do we raise 1:40:00.439 --> 1:40:02.759 in areas where we can raise more money from business? 1:40:02.840 --> 1:40:06.160 And I keep on coming back to resources, particularly things 1:40:06.240 --> 1:40:08.920 like the gas taxes, because that's an area where in 1:40:09.000 --> 1:40:10.760 the past we used to raise a lot more money 1:40:10.800 --> 1:40:12.760 than we do now. And I think this is an 1:40:12.760 --> 1:40:15.120 area where potentially we could shift to biz a bit 1:40:15.200 --> 1:40:16.439 of that tax burden. 1:40:17.040 --> 1:40:19.280 Okay, we need, though, don't we to go back to 1:40:19.360 --> 1:40:22.400 first principles in every conversation to work out Okay, how 1:40:22.400 --> 1:40:23.840 do we get to this point? Why are we doing 1:40:23.960 --> 1:40:26.680 what we're doing? And the reason it seems that we 1:40:26.760 --> 1:40:29.400 have so many of these inefficient taxes like stamp duty 1:40:29.439 --> 1:40:32.000 and payroll tax, a lot of them state taxes, is 1:40:32.080 --> 1:40:35.400 because over the years, the federation has gobbled itself up 1:40:35.600 --> 1:40:38.160 and so canber has taken more and more revenue raising 1:40:38.200 --> 1:40:40.760 capacity away from the states, but burden will left the 1:40:40.840 --> 1:40:43.880 states with the burden of delivery of service, and so 1:40:44.160 --> 1:40:47.960 they are tapping harder and harder these very inefficient ways 1:40:48.000 --> 1:40:50.880 of raising capital because they've got nothing left. This is 1:40:50.920 --> 1:40:53.160 why I'm saying we need the constitutional experts at this 1:40:53.320 --> 1:40:54.960 meeting as well to say, right, this is what the 1:40:55.000 --> 1:40:56.719 federal government should be doing, This's what the state should 1:40:56.720 --> 1:40:58.400 be doing. Stop the overlap, stop the waist. 1:40:59.320 --> 1:41:01.840 Look, I really agree with you, Michael, and I think 1:41:02.479 --> 1:41:05.240 this is it's scary because it's hard to try and 1:41:05.280 --> 1:41:08.400 align states and a federal government. But I do think 1:41:08.479 --> 1:41:10.720 if we could get a better alignment, and you know, 1:41:10.840 --> 1:41:12.800 you could, as you say, get the state government to 1:41:12.880 --> 1:41:16.160 be not just raising money in some of the worst 1:41:16.200 --> 1:41:18.360 taxes that we have in the country than we would 1:41:18.439 --> 1:41:20.840 have an overall better tax system. And where there is 1:41:20.960 --> 1:41:23.760 duplication in services, you know, where you know the health 1:41:24.040 --> 1:41:25.840 Department at the federal level is doing a bit of this, 1:41:26.040 --> 1:41:28.400 the state Department's doing a bit of this. It does 1:41:28.520 --> 1:41:30.679 make it complicated. It makes it really hard for people 1:41:30.720 --> 1:41:33.760 to track, you know, who's responsible for this. So I 1:41:33.840 --> 1:41:36.760 think you're right, definitely you need the states at the 1:41:36.840 --> 1:41:37.400 table at this. 1:41:38.000 --> 1:41:41.519 I mean, I know in Canberra and probably in Macquarie Street, 1:41:41.560 --> 1:41:43.719 in Spring Street and everything. You know, anything Donald Trump 1:41:43.760 --> 1:41:46.280 suggests or does as soon as crazy, right, that's their 1:41:46.360 --> 1:41:50.160 default position. But he at least is giving us an 1:41:50.200 --> 1:41:53.320 option to observe something in this space with what he's 1:41:53.360 --> 1:41:56.120 doing with education, right because he said, all right, this 1:41:56.280 --> 1:41:59.120 is a federal matter, this is a state matter. For 1:41:59.240 --> 1:42:02.280 too long the federal government in Washington have been funding it, 1:42:02.400 --> 1:42:05.000 propping it up, skewing the curriculum with their funding, and 1:42:05.400 --> 1:42:07.400 so right, no, we're getting out of that and the 1:42:07.479 --> 1:42:08.320 states can run it. 1:42:08.439 --> 1:42:08.599 Now. 1:42:09.360 --> 1:42:12.200 We should watch what happens there, shouldn't we and maybe 1:42:12.600 --> 1:42:15.760 just learn if indeed there are some benefits because we've 1:42:15.760 --> 1:42:18.599 got a i think sixteen one thousand staff paid down 1:42:18.640 --> 1:42:21.000 in camber at the Federal Education Department and they don't 1:42:21.080 --> 1:42:23.680 run a school, so you know, there's a lot of 1:42:23.720 --> 1:42:29.720 money going into secondary delivery, whereas if the states were 1:42:29.760 --> 1:42:32.320 able to raise the capital to fund schooling and education, 1:42:32.439 --> 1:42:34.040 we could have competitive tension. 1:42:35.560 --> 1:42:39.439 Look, I think, like I agree with you that it's 1:42:39.520 --> 1:42:42.240 always worth watching and learning. You know, I think the 1:42:42.280 --> 1:42:44.880 way Donald Trump approaches things is often really quite a 1:42:44.960 --> 1:42:47.760 radic you know, doing this and then that, and you know, 1:42:47.920 --> 1:42:50.479 big sways of cuts. But I think what you've just said, 1:42:50.640 --> 1:42:52.680 you know that you know we should be going, how 1:42:52.720 --> 1:42:55.599 do we hold the states more accountable for that delivery, 1:42:56.320 --> 1:42:58.800 but you know, also not overlap on that delivery, I 1:42:58.880 --> 1:43:01.880 think is really right. So you know, we should watch 1:43:01.920 --> 1:43:04.040 and learn from what the states do, but we don't 1:43:04.120 --> 1:43:05.840 have to go, you know, to the sort of those 1:43:05.920 --> 1:43:10.000 extremes that they do in Trump world. But we can 1:43:10.080 --> 1:43:12.639 make an Australian version of saying, well, where's the sensible 1:43:13.080 --> 1:43:15.519 in this? Where is the sensible in terms of you know, 1:43:15.880 --> 1:43:19.320 giving states really clear responsibility and avoiding duplication at the 1:43:19.400 --> 1:43:20.920 federal level. Yep, I'm all for that. 1:43:21.400 --> 1:43:23.400 Okay, the treasure is calling this meeting, good on it, 1:43:23.760 --> 1:43:26.439 and let's hope sensible people get there and make sensible decisions. 1:43:26.479 --> 1:43:30.360 But the early signs of his vision of tax reform 1:43:30.439 --> 1:43:34.479 aren't flash because the one issue that did finally pop 1:43:34.560 --> 1:43:36.439 its head up in the campaign, and the Liberals, I'm 1:43:36.439 --> 1:43:38.640 sure you would agree with Dopey not campaigning on this 1:43:39.280 --> 1:43:42.440 was the super tax, the three million dollars and unrealized 1:43:42.479 --> 1:43:46.040 capital gain threshold being breached. Now, this, in the government's 1:43:46.080 --> 1:43:48.599 mind is tax reform. Most people simply call it theft. 1:43:48.920 --> 1:43:50.680 I know you're not in favor of it, but it 1:43:50.760 --> 1:43:55.479 doesn't bode well for where this whole process might end up, right, Well, 1:43:55.560 --> 1:43:56.000 I think this. 1:43:56.160 --> 1:43:58.639 Is where we need to do something different to where 1:43:59.080 --> 1:44:00.560 and we need to push the government. And that's what 1:44:00.600 --> 1:44:02.559 I'm trying to do, push the government to what they 1:44:02.640 --> 1:44:05.000 did against what they did last term, because I think 1:44:05.280 --> 1:44:08.320 they did isolated you know, tax increases last term, and 1:44:08.400 --> 1:44:11.400 I think you know, tax reform is about trade offs, 1:44:11.520 --> 1:44:13.840 So it's about saying, Okay, well, you know you're going 1:44:13.920 --> 1:44:16.880 to have to reduce taxes. You know, some taxes we 1:44:16.960 --> 1:44:19.439 need to reduce. You know, we need to reduce taxes 1:44:19.560 --> 1:44:22.599 on income. You know, people who are working hard, who's 1:44:22.600 --> 1:44:24.880 struggling to get ahead. You know, they're getting you know, 1:44:24.920 --> 1:44:27.120 their tax bill goes up every year because of bracket creep. 1:44:27.360 --> 1:44:29.880 You know, we actually need to really address that and therefore, 1:44:30.000 --> 1:44:31.240 how are you going to pay for it? And I 1:44:31.280 --> 1:44:33.920 think that's the that's the balance that we need to do. 1:44:34.000 --> 1:44:36.479 And I think that's what was missing last term. It 1:44:36.600 --> 1:44:38.200 was sort of a bit of a bit here, a 1:44:38.280 --> 1:44:40.519 bit there, but it wasn't that trying to say, okay, 1:44:40.760 --> 1:44:43.800 let's get that balance better. And so that's the piece 1:44:43.840 --> 1:44:45.439 I think we need to hold the government to account 1:44:45.479 --> 1:44:47.840 on this term. And you know, I am encouraged. I'll 1:44:47.840 --> 1:44:50.160 be honest that you know, the Treasurer has said, okay, 1:44:50.479 --> 1:44:52.760 you know, we're open to a broader agenda, but we've 1:44:52.760 --> 1:44:54.360 got to get that agenda right. And I think that 1:44:54.520 --> 1:44:57.599 means people speaking up, writing to their MPs, saying, look, 1:44:58.040 --> 1:44:59.960 this is important to me, but I don't want to 1:45:00.160 --> 1:45:02.439 use this just as an opportunity to increase taxes. I 1:45:02.520 --> 1:45:04.120 want you to make sure that we're getting this sort 1:45:04.120 --> 1:45:06.439 of tax relief in the areas that makes sense to. 1:45:06.960 --> 1:45:09.160 To grow the economy. Of the drive productivity. That's what 1:45:09.240 --> 1:45:11.559 we need. We've got to make taxes effect if not ineffective, 1:45:11.560 --> 1:45:13.120 because we need tax Okay, you're going to have a 1:45:13.160 --> 1:45:14.840 defense force, and you're gonna have motorways, and you're going 1:45:14.880 --> 1:45:16.600 to have the health system. You've got raise capital. So 1:45:16.640 --> 1:45:19.720 people have to appreciate that. Okay, So then so what 1:45:19.840 --> 1:45:24.280 do we do because it seems that as a nation 1:45:24.680 --> 1:45:27.160 we don't have the appetite anymore. The voting public don't. 1:45:27.720 --> 1:45:29.439 I can tell by the open line the voting public 1:45:29.479 --> 1:45:33.360 don't have the appetite to have this conversation. Why. I mean, 1:45:33.400 --> 1:45:35.519 when John Howard was Prime Minister, we're all over it 1:45:35.640 --> 1:45:37.519 like a rash on the GST and tax reform and 1:45:37.600 --> 1:45:40.200 economic reform, saying with keeping same with Hawk. And then 1:45:40.240 --> 1:45:43.479 we got complacent. And now we are starting to see 1:45:43.560 --> 1:45:47.360 the deleterious effects of being complacent. So why isn't the 1:45:47.400 --> 1:45:48.600 public alert to this? 1:45:49.720 --> 1:45:52.240 Look, I don't think people have been really championing it. 1:45:52.520 --> 1:45:55.080 And I know it's interesting when people come up to 1:45:55.200 --> 1:45:59.879 me in the streets around here. Often I won't necessarily 1:46:00.040 --> 1:46:02.400 talk about tax but they talk about the problems they're 1:46:02.400 --> 1:46:05.040 worried about. They're talking about they're worried their kids won't 1:46:05.080 --> 1:46:08.000 be able to buy a house. They're worried that they, 1:46:08.520 --> 1:46:11.439 you know, that the businesses that they're part of, you know, 1:46:11.600 --> 1:46:14.639 are struggling. They're worried that, you know, the energy transition 1:46:14.800 --> 1:46:16.240 is going to cost a lot of money. And we're 1:46:16.240 --> 1:46:18.080 doing this in the best way that we can, and 1:46:18.200 --> 1:46:20.000 I think we need to The job I think of 1:46:20.120 --> 1:46:23.080 my job is and others, is to remind people that 1:46:23.439 --> 1:46:27.120 all those three worries are actually really partly driven by 1:46:27.160 --> 1:46:29.160 the tax system. So I think we've got to move 1:46:29.160 --> 1:46:31.680 away from economists saying we need tax reform because it's 1:46:31.840 --> 1:46:34.880 good for efficiency and effectiveness and everything else, to you know, 1:46:35.479 --> 1:46:38.000 you know, public policies about making a real difference to 1:46:38.080 --> 1:46:41.000 people's lives. And that's what really motivates me. And that's 1:46:41.040 --> 1:46:43.200 why I care about tax because you know, we're not 1:46:43.240 --> 1:46:46.479 going to give young people a better chance of doing well, 1:46:46.560 --> 1:46:48.600 no matter who their parents are, unless we get that 1:46:48.680 --> 1:46:51.280 tex system right. And you know, I want more businesses 1:46:51.439 --> 1:46:53.720 to be the big businesses of tomorrow, to be able 1:46:53.800 --> 1:46:55.920 to invest and grow, but we actually need to make 1:46:55.920 --> 1:46:57.800 sure the tax system is right so that they can 1:46:57.920 --> 1:46:59.479 do that. And I think We've got to come back 1:46:59.479 --> 1:47:01.800 to that why and link it back, and that's our 1:47:01.880 --> 1:47:04.840 best chance I think of getting people who are a 1:47:04.920 --> 1:47:09.240 bit overwhelmed with just getting through the day back to 1:47:09.600 --> 1:47:10.840 really caring about this stuff. 1:47:11.240 --> 1:47:13.719 I agree with all that. Just finally the allegra spending 1:47:13.760 --> 1:47:16.040 here with us, by the way, is it that we 1:47:16.240 --> 1:47:19.720 are inefficiently raising taxes? It's the problem we need more 1:47:19.840 --> 1:47:23.120 or something, or is it that we are spending too 1:47:24.240 --> 1:47:27.640 prolifically the taxes that we raise? And then some I mean, 1:47:27.680 --> 1:47:30.840 we've got a government that want universal childcare that won't 1:47:30.840 --> 1:47:34.439 be free. They're very supportive of the NDS, very few 1:47:34.520 --> 1:47:38.439 guardrails on ron it goes. They are being pressured because 1:47:38.439 --> 1:47:41.599 of the reality is geopolitics to increase defense expended dure 1:47:41.600 --> 1:47:44.519 although they don't really have a plan. There's a lot 1:47:44.600 --> 1:47:47.000 of additional money going to be coming out somewhere here. 1:47:48.240 --> 1:47:49.920 I mean, we've got to look at spending in this 1:47:50.000 --> 1:47:51.400 as well. And I guess this is where it comes 1:47:51.439 --> 1:47:53.400 back to the vote. Maybe some of our expectations of 1:47:53.439 --> 1:47:56.120 what the state can do for us need to be curtailed. 1:47:56.680 --> 1:47:58.880 Yes, look, I think you're right. You can't look at 1:47:59.120 --> 1:48:02.719 only at tax and spending, you know, is the real challenge, 1:48:02.720 --> 1:48:05.200 and it's to be honest, it's grown too fast in 1:48:05.320 --> 1:48:08.000 the last three years under the government. So I think 1:48:08.000 --> 1:48:09.880 you're right that the government does need to look at 1:48:09.920 --> 1:48:12.599 spending as well. And you know, from my point of view, 1:48:12.680 --> 1:48:14.640 I think the way to do this tax reform is, 1:48:14.880 --> 1:48:17.080 you know, it's not about trying to raise more revenue. 1:48:17.160 --> 1:48:20.240 It's about trying to get that revenue raise right so 1:48:20.400 --> 1:48:23.400 that it is it actually encourages you know, businesses and 1:48:23.520 --> 1:48:27.519 people to invest in themselves and keep on trying and aspiring. 1:48:28.120 --> 1:48:31.400 But the spending challenges are real. You know, people are 1:48:31.439 --> 1:48:34.400 getting older. It's you know, there are real challenges, as 1:48:34.439 --> 1:48:36.360 you say, from a defense point of view, So I 1:48:36.439 --> 1:48:38.200 think the government is going to have to work harder, 1:48:38.240 --> 1:48:39.840 and I'm certainly going to be pushing them to work 1:48:39.920 --> 1:48:42.840 harder so that the spending doesn't grow like it has been, 1:48:43.520 --> 1:48:45.640 because if it keeps on growing like that, you know, 1:48:45.760 --> 1:48:47.960 all we're doing is frankly passing the buck to our kids. 1:48:48.040 --> 1:48:50.840 That's right. Intergenerational fifth, great to talk, thanks to Leger. 1:48:50.880 --> 1:48:52.640 It's not the end of the conversation. I appreciate it. 1:48:53.200 --> 1:48:54.080 Thanks so much. Michael. 1:48:54.120 --> 1:49:02.240 The legal spender. The MP therefore wentworth wheel. There you go, 1:49:02.640 --> 1:49:04.680 it's been worth the wait. Call A nine. Please call 1:49:04.720 --> 1:49:07.040 A nine now on that prize line. One three hundred 1:49:07.080 --> 1:49:08.960 seven double two eight seven three. I can't lower your 1:49:09.000 --> 1:49:10.320 tax bill, but I might be able to send you 1:49:10.400 --> 1:49:12.560 a thousand bucks or something like that to help. So 1:49:12.720 --> 1:49:15.280 for your chance to win on tgb's wind wheel and 1:49:15.320 --> 1:49:17.280 give it a spin, call a number nine on the 1:49:17.320 --> 1:49:19.360 prize line right now. One three hundred and seven double 1:49:19.360 --> 1:49:21.519 two eight seven three. All right, let's see if we 1:49:21.560 --> 1:49:23.519 can give away a great prize here. Well, we going 1:49:23.560 --> 1:49:24.880 to it. We'll just find out which one it is. 1:49:25.040 --> 1:49:26.840 Call A nine is Jess? Hello, Jess? 1:49:28.280 --> 1:49:28.400 Hi? 1:49:29.320 --> 1:49:33.880 Okay, fingers crossed. We've got lucky hands. Hanson over here, 1:49:34.120 --> 1:49:36.400 Joel over to your spin that wheel. 1:49:36.400 --> 1:49:38.200 All right, here we go for you, Jess spinning now, 1:49:39.560 --> 1:49:40.400 thank you croud. 1:49:40.439 --> 1:49:44.640 It goes legal spin all right here he goes the 1:49:44.680 --> 1:49:47.040 twenty five hundred. It's coming back around, it's coming back around. 1:49:47.080 --> 1:49:49.000 How much is that? Jo? Have one hundred and fifty dollars? 1:49:49.160 --> 1:49:50.040 Well, there you go, Jess. 1:49:50.160 --> 1:49:52.639 Oh fantastic, Thank you so much. 1:49:52.800 --> 1:49:54.080 That's exciting, Thank. 1:49:53.960 --> 1:49:57.160 You, my pleasure. Enjoy that's seven hundred and fifty dollars 1:49:57.520 --> 1:50:00.559 coming your way. It's that easy to listen to GB 1:50:01.240 --> 1:50:03.000 and we'll spend the winner wheel and we'll give you 1:50:03.040 --> 1:50:05.439 a prize. Words to that effect. So well down now 1:50:05.439 --> 1:50:07.439 there's another chance to win, so stay listening for your 1:50:07.600 --> 1:50:11.600 chance with Sydney. Now with Clinton on, of course, Sydney's 1:50:11.760 --> 1:50:14.080 two GB. Well that's it for us, Thank you. We'll 1:50:14.120 --> 1:50:16.880 keep the conversation going tomorrow, keep the emails flowing through 1:50:16.960 --> 1:50:19.040 throughout the night to Clinton coming up of course next 1:50:19.080 --> 1:50:20.600 with Sydney. Now, he'll keep you up to date with 1:50:20.640 --> 1:50:23.360 what's happening with this whale up off the coast there 1:50:23.640 --> 1:50:26.559 of Baron Joey Lighthouse with the net around its tail. 1:50:26.600 --> 1:50:28.719 Let's hope they can sort that out this afternoon before 1:50:28.720 --> 1:50:32.439 we go. Congratulations to the Sydney University Rocket Tree team. 1:50:32.520 --> 1:50:34.360 They beat over one hundred and fifty teams to win 1:50:34.439 --> 1:50:40.680 the world's largest university rocket engineering competition. Their rocket was 1:50:40.720 --> 1:50:44.080 called Paralote, and in addition to winning the overall New 1:50:44.120 --> 1:50:46.519 Horizon Award, the team also secured first place in the 1:50:46.560 --> 1:50:51.080 Student Research and Developed Hybrid Liquid category. When I win 1:50:51.120 --> 1:50:53.400 a Chicken dinner World, until you said, I'll be with 1:50:53.479 --> 1:50:55.120 you again tomorrow, have a good afternoon,