S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a
S1: weekly culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment made with Thomas Mitchell and Meg Watson.
S1: How're you going, pals?
S2: Going good. I've been blasting Wonderwall for 48 hours straight.
S2: Ready to go?
S1: I'm excited to get into that one with you guys.
S1: How are you doing, Thomas? Yeah, not too bad.
S3: Lots of conflicted emotions this morning. You know, I've just
S3: seen that Thanasi Kokkinakis has knocked out Stefanos Tsitsipas out
S3: of the US open in round one. So you know
S3: great for the Greek Australian. But this is kind of
S3: the great Greek hope of tennis.
S1: So you have a preference between the two of those.
S1: As a Greek Australian I would assume it would be Kokkinakis.
S3: Yeah. But I feel like Sisyphus is more likely to
S3: go all the way I see.
S1: I see. So we've just knocked out a Greek, and
S1: the other Greek is probably going to lose in the
S1: next round. Exactly.
S3: Probably to a Russian or something.
S1: So it feels this is like lateral Greek on Greek
S1: violence that this, that this tournament did not need. Whoever
S1: drew those, you know, drew those rounds had something against
S1: you guys.
S3: I know. Just be thankful that Kyrgios isn't involved creating
S3: the sideshow that he does. So yeah, there's a lot
S3: to process. But I am also very happy about the
S3: Oasis news in news that will shock nobody. I love Oasis,
S3: so yeah. Big week.
S1: Yeah we are we are going to get into it.
S1: Look it's a big show as well. It's going to
S1: be a fun show. It's my last show with you guys.
S1: We did think long and hard about whether we should
S1: do something fun and wacky, like a highlight reel. Of
S1: all the times I was wrong about various things, but
S1: when deciding the best way to sign off, we ultimately
S1: went with just a normal episode where we provide smart
S1: and fun conversations about what's happening in culture that feels fitting.
S1: So here's what's in store for today's episode. We're going
S1: to be discussing the very stylish yet very divisive debut
S1: film from Zoe Kravitz. It's called Blink Twice. We're going
S1: to discuss where it fits in the landscape of what
S1: I'm calling post-metoo thrillers. We also have the very fun,
S1: very exciting news that Oasis, the band that, yes, as
S1: you guessed, served as both the aesthetic and moral compass
S1: for Thomas for a very long time. They're reforming and
S1: they're playing, and there's going to be a lot to discuss.
S1: We're also going to talk about industry's third episode of
S1: this season. At the very end of this episode, I
S1: have a special interview with Australian actor Charlie Vickers, who
S1: plays the role of Sauron in the Lord of the
S1: Rings The Rings of Power. It's the most watched show
S1: in Amazon Prime Video's history. It's a pretty fun and
S1: interesting chat. I'll say more about that at the end
S1: of the episode. But first up, there's some news in
S1: TV land. It looks like Ted Lasso, one of the
S1: most popular TV shows of this streaming era we're living
S1: in is returning for a fourth season. Deadline reported that
S1: Apple has started locking down returning cast members in contracts
S1: and taking up their options. It's been more than a
S1: year since season three wrapped up. I think it's sort
S1: of safe to say that it was a bit of
S1: a middling third season, but the show was enormously popular,
S1: and I think still is for I'm going to like
S1: maybe sorry if you're offended by this, like people like
S1: my parents really like Ted Lasso. Um, how are you
S1: guys feeling about the state of the Ted Lasso verse?
S1: Are you excited about the season four news? Are you indifferent?
S1: What do you think?
S3: I think that, like, if ever there was a case
S3: of backed by mild demand, this is it. Like, I
S3: feel like season three was such a kind of middling
S3: season plagued by, I guess, like offset narratives around the show,
S3: which weren't very positive. And then add into that a
S3: season that generally didn't match the quality of the first
S3: two seasons. And like you said, I think it was,
S3: you know, a moment in time when we needed the
S3: kind of aw, shucks Ned Flannery vibe of Ted Lasso.
S3: And that time is over. Season three proved that. And
S3: I guess Apple were just like, well, this is a
S3: big product for us. People love it. You know, it's
S3: got all these big names. We just obviously will bring
S3: it back if we can, you know, get everything over
S3: the line. But I just I think it is out
S3: of whack with what the culture wants. And I suspect
S3: should they get everyone back on board? It'll probably be
S3: the last season. Uh, to use a football analogy. Ted
S3: Lasso is currently in extra time, and we don't really
S3: need a penalty shootout.
S2: Oh my God. Gary Neville over there. Like, like everyone else,
S2: I was on board with season one, you know, as
S2: a fresh breath of fresh air in lockdowns and new thing.
S2: A bit of fun. This news makes me want to
S2: shoot myself in my face.
S1: Oh my God, you really are spending too much time
S1: with me. This is a real classic autism.
S2: You've got to have a strong take, right? And I
S2: really strongly feel this way. Season three was I watched
S2: it out of obligation, I guess, to be some kind
S2: of completionist, but it was like it wasn't middling. It
S2: was awful. It was like written by I. Every episode
S2: was like an after school special, treating its audience like
S2: 12 year olds who didn't know what, like being gay
S2: or revenge porn was. It was awful. And they even said,
S2: like Jason Sudeikis said from the outset, it was a
S2: three season story. And if they're not willing to call
S2: it time after that season, like it's so depressing.
S1: Hearing you talk about those plot points makes me realize
S1: I don't think I even finished season three, which says
S1: a lot about this show.
S2: I mean, it literally ended with him going back to
S2: the States and like being with his son. And the
S2: last episode was called like, So Long, farewell. Like we're done.
S2: We gotta call it.
S1: I guess this is like this, this big question, right?
S1: Because you've got creatives who have this three season arc
S1: potentially in the middle of that. There's all this kind
S1: of drama and rumor about Sudeikis, just always like personal
S1: life and maybe some issues on set. We never really
S1: got total clarity about it, but the production was was
S1: halted and it just seems like even their vision sort
S1: of started to fall apart because of what was going on.
S1: That butts up against the fact that Apple, like a
S1: publicly listed company, has stumbled onto an extremely popular show
S1: that drove enormous amounts of subscriptions to their network. So
S1: you can imagine that the leadership at the company are like, okay,
S1: why are we stopping this? Even if, like, critics don't
S1: like it, I think most normal people watched it. Please,
S1: just like make more of this. The fact it's taken
S1: more than a year since season three ended for us
S1: to get this news, Sudeikis isn't confirmed. You can imagine
S1: he's probably just like, milking them like this could end
S1: up being one of the most lucrative TV deals for him. But, like, yeah,
S1: I mean, both of you guys seem to be saying
S1: the same thing. No one really wants this, do they?
S2: I feel like some people masked because it was consistently
S2: like the top show on Apple. And I mean, like,
S2: how much does that say? Apple doesn't have that many shows,
S2: but I think it is one of the ones that people,
S2: even if you didn't have a consistent Apple subscription, you'd
S2: sign back up and like see what's going on. And like,
S2: I mean, I really didn't like season two either, but
S2: I still checked back in, out of interest. Um, like
S2: people watch it. And I suppose that counts for more
S2: than what critics think, or the fact that it's not
S2: like the Emmys juggernaut it was in season one.
S3: Yeah, I mean, I kind of agree. I think it
S3: probably is like a really smart play from Sudeikis. I
S3: kind of got the feeling, obviously. I think what's happened
S3: is the UK cast members, they're on different like kind
S3: of award contracts. So they've signed up earlier. So we
S3: obviously don't know who from the American cast will return.
S3: But I could also see a world in which like
S3: I mean, obviously the show is called Ted Lasso and
S3: that's who Jason Sudeikis plays. But like, could we arguably
S3: his character I think is like the least interesting now. Like,
S3: could we see a version of the show where, you know,
S3: he is either like a cameo and it's mostly about
S3: the remaining cast members back in the UK. That's possible,
S3: but yeah, um, I just don't know if if anyone
S3: cares anymore.
S2: The Ted Lasso extended universe.
S1: Well, people people were talking about that. People were kind
S1: of like there was discussion in TV land that Apple
S1: was investigating spin offs about, you know, Coach Beard or
S1: the guy that was the good guy who then became
S1: the bad guy. I can't remember the guy's name. Yeah. Nate. Um,
S1: and I just think that, like, even if that was
S1: a thing, that we were all part of me, like,
S1: I also really enjoyed the first season. The second season
S1: a little bit less. So I wonder whether we were
S1: all caught up in a bit of a Covid fever
S1: dream for a little while.
S2: I wonder that did I have brain worms? I don't know.
S1: I think it just like it was this antidote to
S1: the negativity and anxiety we felt. And yeah, it's like
S1: fine to feel wholesome and watch something like that. I
S1: watched that first season multiple times over the course of
S1: multiple lockdowns. I think if it lands at any other
S1: point where like, this is like a fine, kind of
S1: weird show, like almost everything else Apple TV does or
S1: what we see in the streaming era. So yeah, just like, okay,
S1: this was a nice thing that happened at a dark
S1: time for so many people. That's all it needs to be.
S1: We don't need to do more lasso stuff.
S2: I think Americans really like it, though. Derogatory.
S3: It's like we, you know, we agreed unanimously that we
S3: would stop baking sourdough. And then we also do not
S3: need any more Ted Lasso. But anyway, I don't the
S3: people at Apple famously don't really listen to me, which
S3: is annoying. So they will do what they want to do.
S1: The people on Apple Podcasts do enjoy listening to us though.
S1: Shout out to you guys!
S3: I've always been more of a Spotify guy, but.
S1: Speaking of listening to stuff, Oasis.
S4: Today is gonna be the day that they're gonna throw
S4: it back to you. By now, you should have somehow
S4: realized what you gotta do. I don't believe that anybody
S4: feels the way I do about you now.
S1: Britpop legends, famously the most fractious brother duo music relationship
S1: in like music history. Perhaps they are reforming. It's been
S1: a very, very, very long time since Oasis performed. It's
S1: been 20 years since they performed in Australia. Just as
S1: a bit of an indication as to like how long
S1: ago these guys were last. Really hot and big and
S1: touring together. They have announced they're going to be playing
S1: 14 dates across the UK and Ireland and Wales in
S1: the middle of next year. They're strongly hinting at a
S1: global tour as well, though anything in Australia is yet
S1: to be confirmed. I will say something. You guys know me,
S1: listeners know me. I'm generally a pretty cynical person about
S1: many things, and I also think there is a part
S1: of this decision to reform that feels cynical. Like, again,
S1: I'm sure they've been handed enormous amounts of money for this.
S1: But all that aside, I don't feel anything other than
S1: just like, excitement about this news. I'm not here to
S1: like rain on People's parade and say this is all
S1: just a big cash grab. I think this is really
S1: nice and exciting news. I think the sheer volume of
S1: the reaction, there's all the people coming out of the
S1: woodwork talking about what it meant to be young and
S1: working class in Britain in the 90s, and what Oasis
S1: meant to them. Older fans, younger fans, people who have
S1: Oasis tattoos. Thomas, whose personality was driven by wanting to
S1: look like Liam Gallagher for such a long time. It's
S1: just nice and like, you know, Oasis has never been
S1: my favourite band. But, you know, I've belted Wonderwall out
S1: karaoke like a trillion times. That album, Champagne Supernova, like
S1: they're all they make great songs that were very, very
S1: reflective of that moment in kind of rock history, and
S1: it's really exciting that they're giving it another crack. I
S1: am really keen to know about your guys's relationship to
S1: this band and how you feel. Thomas, I think I'm
S1: going to start.
S2: Yeah, you got to start with Thomas.
S1: You did? I should just say that you. You posted
S1: a photo in our work slack this morning of you
S1: dressed as Liam Gallagher with a photo of him alongside it.
S1: Was that for, like, a party, or did you just
S1: happen to look like him that day? And someone pointed
S1: out that you look exactly like him?
S3: No, it was. It was for a dress up party. Um,
S3: but I thought it was actually pretty good in terms of,
S3: you know, as far as celebrity lookalikes go, that was
S3: not a bad one. Yeah. I mean, look, obviously this
S3: is very exciting news. I think it was so funny,
S3: like watching it all play out on social media and
S3: stuff and everyone on my feed, you know, like the
S3: aging millennial men, the hair is maybe receding, the paunch
S3: is pinching, the Parker doesn't fit so tight anymore. And
S3: yet we are excited. I obviously speak with a royal.
S3: We there for all the sad men out there.
S5: Who.
S3: This brings back the crazy days of Britpop. I mean,
S3: admittedly I was a little bit young for the height
S3: of Britpop, but yeah, I have been a long time
S3: Oasis fan. I saw them at the end. I'm just
S3: trying to find like when the tour was. I can't
S3: remember the last time, but I saw Oasis on a
S3: tour and it was amazing.
S1: I think, I think it was 2005. I think that
S1: was when they played the Enmore. Okay, cool.
S3: Yeah, right. So I must have been like, it must
S3: have been young.
S2: Yeah.
S3: I was like, in year 11. Fucking killing it. SMP belt. Uh, yeah. Anyway,
S3: that was a fun time for me and Oasis, but yeah,
S3: it is very exciting. It's just I find the whole
S3: thing very funny, though. Like, Noel is coming off the
S3: back of a very expensive surprise divorce. Like, it's costing
S3: him $20 million. And then literally, it was like last
S3: month that was announced and now the tour. So, like,
S3: did he get on the phone to Liam, be like, look,
S3: I'm gonna level with you. I've taken quite the hit.
S3: But yeah, whether or not they will come to Australia
S3: remains to be seen. Like I on the way to
S3: work this morning, I bumped into this guy I used
S3: to work with English, 44 years old. So, like, right
S3: there in the demo and before I even like, we
S3: were both taking out our respective earbuds and he was
S3: like Oasis. And then I was like, oh yeah, you know,
S3: you're excited and stuff. And he's like, yeah, I've literally
S3: got my boys chat from home. Has been lighting up
S3: with like, mate, are you gonna fucking fly back to Wembley?
S3: And he's got two young kids and he's like, fucking absolutely.
S3: So yeah, men are in crisis about Oasis, I suppose.
S1: Well done Thomas. Um, yeah. Meg. How about how about you?
S2: Um, I missed the first wave. I think, like Thomas,
S2: I was slightly too young. I was also a woman, so.
S5: That.
S2: Left me out of the main hype. I think back then,
S2: in the late 90s, it was like the divisions between
S2: pop and rock and what music women liked and men
S2: liked or were able to like were very, quite stark. Yeah, I.
S1: Mean, Poptimism feels like a reaction to that exact moment. Yeah.
S1: Men singing about whatever was so important. Yes. And women
S1: are just like, it.
S2: Actually wasn't until I was 15 years old that I
S2: had my first kind of like, oh, Oasis are this big.
S2: And it came, I was I was in a Hungry
S2: Jack's in regional New South Wales doing karaoke on a
S2: Friday night, and every man in the venue was singing Wonderwall.
S2: And I was like, I think I've heard this song,
S2: but I did not know that it was like that.
S2: Like everyone knew the words. It was a full sing along.
S2: That was my first moment. But it's because, like, I
S2: grew up in Spice Girls land, you know? Totally. And
S2: Spice Girls girls couldn't like Noel and Liam Gallagher. That's
S2: just not how it worked. Yeah. And so I was
S2: I then later got into it, of course, because then,
S2: you know, I started dating boys and they liked it.
S5: So it's the real.
S3: Montague Capulet story of our times, the Oasis Spice Girl.
S3: But I mean, like, I think the weird thing is
S3: because it has been so long and because they famously
S3: fight and their fights are actually pretty funny and then,
S3: you know, the whole like. And anyway, here's Wonderwall, meme
S3: like Oasis as a thing has become like kind of
S3: a punchline. But yeah, what's the story? Morning glory. And
S3: definitely maybe they're like fucking almost no skip albums like
S3: they are two really good records. The rest of their output,
S3: I think is like, you know, up for debate. But 94, 95,
S3: they were on a heater and I can't wait to
S3: get back there.
S1: Yeah, I totally agree. I was flying back from Sydney
S1: last night and I thought, why don't I just play
S1: those two records? Their first two and I read the
S1: entire Oasis Wikipedia page and it's so fun because you know,
S1: that they fought and I guess, like, I didn't know
S1: every single tour, they basically went on for ten years.
S1: One of them would, like, quit halfway through and just
S1: ruin everything. So there is a big question mark over.
S2: Boys are so emotional.
S5: Truly.
S1: There is a big question mark over how many of
S1: these 14 dates like they will actually be able to.
S1: I mean, the.
S5: Idea of them getting to.
S2: Australia, I don't know. I know even the.
S5: Flight, it's pretty.
S1: Slim. But um, Meg, I sort of had a similar moment,
S1: like I was a teenage boy and I did listen
S1: to Oasis and I did like them, but I don't
S1: think I ever like I wasn't part of a kind
S1: of like, big group of, like, guys who loved rock.
S1: So I listened to Oasis, but I didn't really talk
S1: to heaps of people, but that kind of music and
S1: I remember I might have been like 18 at a
S1: dive bar in Copenhagen on like my first Euro backpacking trip.
S1: And the song just came on and every single person
S1: belted it. People got up on chairs and tables and
S1: started singing and I'm like, wow, that's nice. And I
S1: think when we talk on this show about the way
S1: that culture can bring people together and those kinds of
S1: memories and stuff like Wonderwall, from being a genuine, joyous
S1: song to becoming a meme to becoming a nostalgic hit,
S1: to now everyone being excited to seeing them sing it
S1: and perform it. I was really lucky in 2022 when
S1: Liam did splendour, like he played Wonderwall and you know,
S1: it was not the same thing, but it felt really special.
S1: And being in the auditorium covered in mud, the sign
S1: had been changed to splendour in the mud and like
S1: seeing a song that I have played for 20 years
S1: of my life live, it was really magical. So I'm
S1: also just really happy it's happening. I'm really happy that
S1: so many people will hopefully get to experience this, you know,
S1: for the first time, or bring back some memories. They
S1: are playing in Cardiff and Wales on my birthday. Um,
S1: so if anyone wants to, you know, send me a
S1: birthday gift I'm willing and able to receive. Well, you've just.
S3: Ruined the farewell gift that we had planned for you, so.
S1: Well, thanks so much, man. That's really generous of you.
S1: It's not.
S3: It's actually tickets to see the Oasis tribute band, who
S3: we will be speaking to this week. Keep an eye
S3: out for the story coming soon.
S2: It's Thomas's band.
S1: All right, let's talk about blink twice.
S6: We're going to my island for a few days.
S7: Do you guys want to come?
S8: This is crazy.
S9: Did we just jet off to a billionaire's island with
S9: a bunch of strangers? Oh, he's not a stranger. He's
S9: later king.
S1: This is the directorial debut from Zoe Kravitz. It's co-written
S1: by Kravitz and E.T. Feigenbaum, who's a director and wrote
S1: some episodes of the High Fidelity TV show that Zoe
S1: worked on. The film stars Naomi Ackie and Channing Tatum.
S1: The movie opens with the character of Frida, played by
S1: Naomi Ackie. She's working as a cocktail waitress at a
S1: gala event hosted by Slater King, a tech billionaire played
S1: by Channing Tatum. Seems very like Jack Dorsey, Twitter influenced vibes.
S1: She seems infatuated with this guy. They hit it off
S1: and he decides to invite her to his private island
S1: for a fun, romantic getaway. And that's where most of
S1: this movie takes place. Channing Tatum's character and a group
S1: of his male friends, played by quite an incredible list
S1: of actors from various different generations Christian Slater, Simon Rex,
S1: Haley Joel Osment. They spend the weekend partying with a
S1: bunch of women, including Adria Arjona and Alia Shawkat. Pretty soon,
S1: it becomes apparent that things on this island are not
S1: quite what they seem, and the movie morphs into more
S1: of a thriller as these women, led by Ackie, try
S1: to figure out what's really going on. I want to
S1: have a brief chat with you guys before we get
S1: into spoiler territory, because I think it is a hard
S1: movie to discuss without going into detail, but let's do
S1: some top line stuff before we get there. Overall, I
S1: thought this movie is a perfect case study in style
S1: over any kind of real significant substance. I think the
S1: production design, the casting, the editing style, the needle drops
S1: the way that Kravitz is like moving through the movie
S1: as a director is all extremely well done. It's technically
S1: very proficient. It's everything you'd want from a film that
S1: clearly thinks of itself as the love child of, like,
S1: Promising Young Woman and Get Out, but I think because
S1: it feels similar to those movies, the fact that thematically
S1: it is so unlike them in the sense that I
S1: think it's almost kind of thematically empty kind of is
S1: an extra knock against the film. I think the Get
S1: Out references in particular are so obvious. There's this repeated
S1: use of cameras and taking photos, and the way that's
S1: used to jolt people out of their reveries, that it's
S1: like a one for one lift from Get Out just
S1: reminds you of what a very good version of this
S1: film could be. And sadly, I didn't really have a
S1: great time in this movie and walked away feeling ultimately
S1: kind of frustrated because of all the money and people
S1: and the premise that was on screen, and it just
S1: felt like it didn't really deliver. But I'm very interested
S1: to hear what you guys think. Oh, is this underselling it?
S2: He literally told me he nearly walked out of the cinema.
S1: Well, I have my views. And then I have my
S1: attempt to distill them into some kind of criticism.
S5: Just be your true self.
S1: Useful for people. Um, well, I will be more honest
S1: about why I really didn't like the movie in the
S1: spoiler section, because I think so much of it has
S1: to do with the ideas of the movie and what
S1: it's saying, not with like how the movie looks and
S1: the performances and things like that. Meg, presumably you didn't
S1: walk out of the theater.
S5: I did not walk out of the cinema.
S2: Um, but I look, I see your points and I
S2: agree with most of them. Um, for me, I think
S2: those stylistic elements held enough weight for it to be
S2: an entertaining film. I mean, as a directorial debut, that's
S2: actually really great from Zoe Kravitz. Like the actual sense
S2: of the style, the aesthetic, the sound design, there's this
S2: really like recurring theme of the champagne fizzing. Those those
S2: details are done really well. Um, the casting as well.
S2: I mean, like Channing Tatum playing against type and using
S2: his like, weaponizing his good guy charm is actually really great.
S2: I mean, do I buy him as a tech titan?
S2: Not really. He's like far too jacked and good looking
S2: for that. Um, but the cast itself is so good. Like,
S2: Naomi Ackie does such a good job. Adria Arjona from
S2: hitman fame. Like she's killing it. The. There's such good
S2: parts of it, I also agree. It doesn't really add
S2: up to a whole. That's completely satisfying. I think the
S2: movie thinks it's a bit more thrilling than it is,
S2: just because it's signposts so many things so early on
S2: that like, you kind of spend the first hour or
S2: so just like essentially guessing what's going to happen. And
S2: you probably can. Yeah. Which is pretty disappointing. And then
S2: I agree that there's kind of like the ideas that
S2: wrestles with are so good and so rich. I mean,
S2: the idea of this island being trapped there is a
S2: thrilling one in itself. But then when you add the
S2: kind of Jeffrey Epstein overtones, that's a really rich area
S2: to mine. I don't think it quite gets there because
S2: the characters involved are super underbaked. Like, I don't really
S2: understand a lot of the deeper context or characterization between
S2: these people, so it's hard to respect the ideas that
S2: they're conveying. But I mean, did I have a good
S2: time in the cinema? Yeah. Like, I mean, what are
S2: the standards for judging this film by a social commentary
S2: or as a good time in the cinema?
S1: I think the difference between you and I in this
S1: movie is less about our interpretation of the film, and
S1: more just like our patience and tolerance threshold.
S5: Sure. I mean.
S2: I totally agree on the get out comp. Like it's
S2: really it's so overwhelming how much it wants to be.
S2: Get out. Yeah. Um, but even like, you see these
S2: constant look overs to the staff who work on the island,
S2: it's like there's a reason the staff were like that
S2: on Get Out and there's not much here. Yeah, like
S2: it's quite distracting. Yeah.
S1: And there's another movie. I think that this movie is, uh,
S1: in the same sandbox in and in fact, is so
S1: eerily similar to I kind of I can kind of
S1: just don't understand why it exists, but we'll get to
S1: that in a second. Thomas, no idea what you think
S1: about this. I haven't spoken to you since you saw it.
S1: What did you what did you make of blink twice?
S3: Uh, well, I guess firstly, the standard as agreed last
S3: week is Ticket to Paradise. So that is the film.
S1: That also island themed adventures.
S3: Yeah, absolutely. Less of a me too thriller. Um, yeah. Yeah.
S3: I was unimpressed by this movie. Um, and I even think, like,
S3: you know what you just said, Osmond. And what's some
S3: of the reviews are saying, like, you know, praising Zoe
S3: Kravitz style. She's obviously a debut director, and admittedly, it
S3: does look good, but I'm like, man, I reckon I
S3: could make a movie that looks pretty fucking good too.
S3: Like if given the tools and stuff, like it.
S1: Was the money.
S3: Yeah. Money. Like, okay, yes, she's got a good eye,
S3: but like, so do lots of people. And it looked good.
S3: There was a great location. The cast are all like
S3: talented and attractive. I just don't know if you're going
S3: to attempt a movie that's trying to say a lot
S3: of things and like tackle some pretty tricky areas. I
S3: don't know if it's enough. So that was like, you know,
S3: kind of annoyed me if anything, because I was like, oh,
S3: it does look good. But like, so what? Ultimately it
S3: not only like the get out thing, but, you know,
S3: we are in this era of the MeToo thriller we've
S3: had like Don't Worry Darling, which I also thought was probably,
S3: you know, on the mood board for her.
S1: And that's the movie I was talking about that I
S1: think this movie is so similar to. Yeah, yeah.
S3: And it's just it's just like, I think the movie
S3: takes you into this, like environment where it's so obvious
S3: that something creepy is happening. And because I think I
S3: was aware of all these films that have come before
S3: in such recent history, I was like, surely we're not
S3: going to end up in the same place that we
S3: have ended up previously. And, you know, lo and behold,
S3: we kind of do. And then in addition to all that,
S3: I thought Channing was really good. But I do think,
S3: you know, there was a slight element of like, my
S3: boyfriend is so hot. I can't wait to film him
S3: for ages. Um, yeah, but maybe that was just my
S3: own take. But yeah, I don't know. Ultimately I had
S3: such a and we haven't mentioned this one either. Like,
S3: I had such a Saltburn experience again where I was.
S1: Like, that was the other one I've got in my notes, man.
S1: That's exactly it. I was like.
S3: You know, all the like, it's like the intelligent movie
S3: for dumb people. But like, you know, everyone's saying Saltburn
S3: is so great, man. It's crazy. It's such an incredible twist.
S3: And it says so many like, amazing things that makes
S3: you think. And then you get out of it and
S3: you're like, it doesn't make me think about anything. You've
S3: just been fooled by the gimmicks.
S2: I would also say there's like, it's not just Saltburn,
S2: there's like Knives Out one with Edward Norton as a
S2: tech titan going into an island. It's like the menu.
S2: There's all these very recent films of like, eat the
S2: rich genre that just feels so recent and close to
S2: this that this almost feels derivative, even though it is
S2: original filmmaking. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, we say
S2: all the time we want movies like this that take
S2: a real swing and have great premises and original stories,
S2: but like, it just doesn't feel as original as it should.
S5: Yeah, and.
S1: I think you made this point earlier, Meg. It's like
S1: for a movie that it considers itself a twisty thriller,
S1: there's barely any twists. It's pretty clear something's going on
S1: and you kind of figure it out. Maybe you don't
S1: know the exact specific nature of it, and then the
S1: reveal happens. Like, okay, that was obviously signposted. And then
S1: the movie progresses and progresses in that same sort of way.
S1: And I think Saltburn is the other exact comp where
S1: it's shiny. There's some good performances. There's some like memorable moments.
S1: There's some very iconic needle drops that people will like,
S1: really enjoy. But again, like, you know, with Saltburn did
S1: this to oh, here's the twist. It's like we knew that.
S1: You kind of seem to think that we're way dumber
S1: than this movie you've constructed is it's.
S2: And it's quite depressing, like seeing a lot of the
S2: response to the film, especially just on like, Twitter or
S2: Reddit or whatever. It's like the bar is so low.
S1: I know I don't read the Letterboxd reviews, I think. Like,
S1: I don't know what a letterbox has been taken over
S1: by like 15 year olds, but just people being like, whoa,
S1: what a movie. And, you know, maybe one nice thing
S1: to say about this is that if there are like
S1: younger people who appreciate the style and the aesthetic of
S1: the film more than the lack of the themes that
S1: seem to be bothering people like us and some of
S1: the underwriting of it. That's cool. Like, good on them
S1: for enjoying a movie, and maybe they'll discover some of
S1: these other films that that are the precursors to this.
S1: But saying that, like, people might watch a movie and
S1: then hopefully discover better movies is not much of a compliment.
S3: And I also reckon, like, worth adding to that list.
S3: You mentioned the menu, Meg, which I also think is
S3: this is really derivative, like, you know, um, they basically
S3: go to that like really Crazy Island and what's his name, the, uh,
S3: Ralph Fiennes plays, you know, the crazy rich, you know,
S3: he's a chef or whatever. But that is so similar.
S3: And also Triangle of Sadness, which I think does a
S3: much better job of like skewering this.
S2: Also an island. We got to get off islands, I think.
S5: I know it's.
S3: Like everyone's like rich people on an island. Let's absolutely
S3: milk it until it's boring. And here it is. We arrived.
S1: Uh, should we go into spoiler territory? I think we
S1: have to. So if you are going to watch the
S1: movie and you haven't seen it, skip the next 5
S1: to 7 minutes of this podcast. So basically, the reveal
S1: is that the women on this island who think they're
S1: having a really great time are, in fact, being like,
S1: drugged and sexually assaulted quite, like intensely, repeatedly, every single
S1: night by the men. They take this perfume or they
S1: spray this perfume called Desdemona, and it makes them forget
S1: the trauma that they've had. And this has been going
S1: on potentially for years. We find out that Naomi Ackie's
S1: character has actually been on this island before. It's not
S1: her first time, and she discovers, through the help of
S1: the staff who work there, that there is this snake venom,
S1: that if you drink or if you put in tequila shots,
S1: you will overpower the perfume. So this is. It's like
S1: a weird, like, magical thing going on.
S5: Plot mechanics. Man. Oh my God.
S1: Two competing like magical elixirs is very, very odd. And
S1: so she she does realize. And she has these horrific
S1: flashbacks to the violence being done on her. And then,
S1: you know, the movie's most obvious theme or like, kind
S1: of idea it's got is that women should band together
S1: and work together to kill terrible men, which is what happens.
S1: And then the bit that I guess, like was the
S1: most surprising twist is the very, very, very end of
S1: the movie where we're back in the room where the
S1: gala was originally held and you think, oh wow, like
S1: Channing Tatum's character survived, what's going on here? And then
S1: the reveal is that it's Naomi Ackie's character, Frida, who
S1: is the CEO of this tech company. And Channing Tatum
S1: is kind of her lobotomized boyfriend husband. and the idea
S1: there being kill all the bad men, but the ringleader
S1: just marry him and keep him as your boy toy.
S1: Because that is a cool thing to do. I think,
S1: like when all of that was going on, this is
S1: where my levels of frustration started to grow. Because what
S1: is the idea in the movie? Drugging and assaulting women
S1: is bad. Sure. Obviously no disagreement from anyone. They're not
S1: a particularly, like, compelling or interesting idea for a film,
S1: I would say, and especially not one that doesn't go
S1: anywhere beyond that. Now that we're in that sort of
S1: spoiler space, what did you guys think of all the
S1: reveals and do you think, am I missing something? Is
S1: there a point being made about the nature of the patriarchy,
S1: the way it should be dealt with that does exist
S1: beyond what's on the surface?
S5: I think the.
S2: Film would like to think it has a big theme
S2: about cancel culture, because Channing Tatum's character had been found
S2: out for doing something before, though we don't really know
S2: what was revealed previously, and the film starts with him
S2: having the kind of, you know, Instagram apology. He's having
S2: an interview about it, and I suppose it's playing with
S2: ideas of do these men change? What will a culture
S2: forgive those kind of things? But without that deeper context
S2: of what he did or even like, I mean, he
S2: was absolved in this interview with this person. He was
S2: like being exalted for what a new man he is.
S2: But then by the end of the film, Channing Tatum's
S2: doing this really cringeworthy speech about how he can just
S2: say sorry a million times and it's just not worth it.
S2: It's like, what? Weren't you? Didn't this work? I don't
S2: understand what's going on. I mean, even that dialogue was
S2: so cringeworthy. There's this terrible speech about there's this younger
S2: guy on the island who supposedly did nothing to help them,
S2: even though he has a black eye. So I have
S2: to assume he stepped in at one point, right?
S1: It actually gets kind of confusing as to who on
S1: the island is, at which stage of which poison, like
S1: who's been perfumed and who's been snake venom.
S2: Yeah, like.
S1: I think maybe that guy wasn't aware of what was
S1: going on.
S5: No, I think he was.
S2: But then on that final night.
S5: I thought he was.
S3: Being assaulted too. Hence.
S1: Yeah, that was my.
S5: Yeah.
S2: I'm glad.
S5: That's possible. I don't know. Sure. Yeah.
S1: I'm not sure they know. I think they lost track.
S5: Of what was going on.
S2: I feel like with a lot of these MeToo movies,
S2: there's these very big themes that creators are taking on
S2: in time with the culture. But by the time the
S2: films come out or even they're filming, discourse has moved
S2: and then plots get changed and it just feels stale
S2: in this weird way, or it feels like it's pandering
S2: to a moment that's passed. I think there's a lot
S2: of that in this movie, and it's something that happened
S2: with promising young women as well. I mean, if that
S2: had that film had come out even a year prior,
S2: it would have had a massive impact. I mean, another
S2: film with a confusing final act twist. Um, but yeah,
S2: it's hard to glean an overall message from this other
S2: than women should stick Together. Um, but yeah, it's not
S2: that inspiring.
S1: You were talking about the Spice Girls, you know, a
S1: while ago, but that's, you know.
S5: Yeah, but that.
S2: Was the 90s.
S5: So. Yeah. Yeah.
S1: Um, how about you, Thomas?
S3: Yeah, I think kind of like we said before, it
S3: just felt like the whole time you were being prepared
S3: for a big twist. And then it went. And like,
S3: even in my head, I think I was like, please
S3: don't be the lowest common denominator twist that we've seen
S3: in this recent rash of films exactly like this. And
S3: then it was and that made it even like that,
S3: made it so much more disappointing. Like I just yeah,
S3: I kind of in that, you know. Yeah. The really
S3: obvious message is that these things are awful and men
S3: can be really, really bad. But like, I just don't
S3: know what else you're supposed to take away from the
S3: the movie. Like the reveal that all of these men
S3: who are all quite rich and powerful are doing, like,
S3: really heinous things at night, but it just didn't. There
S3: was no like, thesis beyond that for the movie. And
S3: so when that's all you get, um, it's hard to
S3: think that this was a smart idea, and I actually
S3: kind of do think the cancel culture thing was perhaps
S3: the most interesting part of it. Like, even though that
S3: speech was a bit cringeworthy, the whole idea of like,
S3: you know, a powerful man doing something bad. We don't
S3: know what it was. But then, you know, getting public
S3: forgiveness and but really, you can't forgive. You can only forget,
S3: like there was, there was like a kernel of something
S3: interesting there, but instead they ended up just going for like,
S3: let's have heaps of, like, crazy drums and people running
S3: around and there'll be a big reveal and, you know,
S3: like it's just abandoned what may have been interesting and
S3: instead went back to, I guess, what is kind of
S3: become a, you know, paint by numbers for this genre
S3: that we're living in, which is that, you know, the
S3: big reveal is all these men are awful. And, you know, like,
S3: women should be terrified, which. Yeah, again, interesting idea, but
S3: executed in a way that makes it just feel a
S3: bit like, oh God, here we go again.
S2: It's the same way that I mean, that's how I
S2: felt about Don't Worry Darling as well. And spoilers, I guess. But,
S2: you know, if that film had gone harder on why
S2: the men are doing that or the culture that led
S2: up to it. Those kind of like Andrew Tate figures.
S2: That would have been a more interesting movie, but it
S2: just feels like they're kind of pulling their punches in
S2: that space and just opting for these like very set
S2: set and forget thrills. It's like, I think we should
S2: expect more from films like this at this stage.
S3: And that's why I don't know if either of you,
S3: either of you guys seen the Royal Hotel? The Julia
S3: Garner film filmed in Australia?
S1: I have, yeah, like.
S3: That to me is so basically like, you know, it's
S3: these two young like backpackers, I think. What are they,
S3: American or English? And they go to work in like
S3: an outback pub, kind of like, um, you know, in
S3: the middle of nowhere. Very rare for anyone to rock up.
S3: That's not, you know, like a working part of the community.
S3: And it kind of instead of there's no like kind
S3: of fantastical elements of snake venom and poisons and perfumes
S3: and stuff, but it's just the whole thing, like ratchets
S3: up this tension. You know, lots of men like hot
S3: blooded men who were, like, drinking and have no interaction
S3: with women and don't know how to act. And but
S3: like the way it kind of treats, you know, the
S3: men who appear to be like, kind of nice guys
S3: and then their roles shift, and it's all grounded in
S3: such a reality that makes it way more terrifying, because
S3: it's like men that you know and see at pubs
S3: and stuff, and I feel like that tackled the exact
S3: same areas in a way that was so much more affecting.
S3: And at the end there's no real big twist or anything.
S3: It's just a survival story, really. But at the end
S3: you walk away, I guess, like, well, I walked away
S3: thinking so much more about, like, you know, in air
S3: quotes like toxic masculinity and all of that stuff because
S3: it was handled in a way that was so much
S3: real and raw as opposed to like big flip reveal
S3: and like, oh, this is what's happening at night. And
S3: these people are all complete, like double characters and stuff.
S1: Mm. Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned that. So that was
S1: directed by Kitty green, who's an Australian director. And her
S1: movie before that was The Assistant, which came out in 2019,
S1: which I think is maybe my favorite of the films
S1: in what we could call the post-metoo genre. I mean,
S1: this one in particular, it's set in a production office
S1: about a young assistant, and it is very much like
S1: a take on the Weinstein sort of dynamic. It's a
S1: really extraordinary film that is worth watching. And I guess
S1: like the timing has to do with this as well.
S1: I mean, I think the assistant still holds up right now,
S1: but Kravitz started writing blink Twice under the working title
S1: of Pussy Island back in 2017. So we're right. Like,
S1: post the Trump election in the middle of the Weinstein stuff.
S1: The Epstein stuff is happening. And perhaps if the movie
S1: had come out in 2017, we might have a different view.
S1: But also the movie didn't come out in 2017. The
S1: movie was in development for many, many, many years. So
S1: it's not really an excuse to not be good. But
S1: there are there are like, I think there are a
S1: few films in this space that tackle these things well.
S1: And you mentioned one, Thomas. I mentioned one, there's two
S1: more I wanted to to, to shout out women talking,
S1: which came out, I think, either last year or the
S1: year before. Um, very, very interesting. Like kind of basically
S1: interior chamber drama about women experiencing horrific things happening to
S1: them and what that kind of using that as a
S1: frame to discuss power relationships and gender dynamics in society.
S1: And then in terms of both like conversations around assault
S1: and cancel culture, to like Cate Blanchett, like that movie.
S1: Maybe it's hard to compare blink twice to it, because
S1: that is by an experienced director and an experienced actress.
S1: It is so complicated and sharp and nuanced and fascinating
S1: and makes you think days, weeks, months, years after you've
S1: watched the movie. So the good news is that there
S1: are like really interesting films tackling this stuff. Blink twice
S1: is just not in that category.
S5: I think the difference.
S2: With those films are like, Tara is also a film
S2: about cancel culture. Yeah. But it's grounded in character and plot.
S2: And so you sit with this person and their ideas
S2: and their world, and you come to an understanding of it.
S2: And maybe that forms one perspective. Maybe it's challenged to
S2: the next scene. This one is more interested in kind
S2: of the buzzwords. Yeah. And like, I mean, really, what
S2: do we know about Jack's character? He's got some vague
S2: childhood trauma. Like, I'm so sick of that storyline. Yeah.
S2: We should really know more than that. If we're going
S2: to have a proper critique of these men and why
S2: they do that. I think there was like another kernel
S2: of something more interesting with the Geena Davis character, where
S2: she has this snake venom potion and remembers what's going
S2: on but doesn't want to, and there's this altercation where
S2: she's like, I didn't want to remember. And then it's
S2: a fight between her and the other woman. And like,
S2: that's interesting casting because Geena Davis is obviously like Thelma
S2: and Louise icon like feminist film women sticking together. There's
S2: a lot of loaded casting in that. But when it's
S2: reduced to just one scene and like one throwaway thing,
S2: when it could have been this interesting dialogue about a
S2: genuine rift that happened between women of different generations during MeToo,
S2: where it's like all the women saying it's easier to
S2: just like, move on from these things. Why do you
S2: have to dig it all up? And younger women wanting
S2: to remember and fight for it and like, avenge what
S2: has happened? Like, that's an interesting idea too. But it
S2: just played for one scene, like.
S1: Yeah, it just seems like we need something there to
S1: show that women can also be complicit in these things. Yeah,
S1: I think you're right, I think. And I wonder whether
S1: some there is more to this movie that that we
S1: just don't get to see. And it's changed its name.
S1: It's been in quite a long production cycle. There's been
S1: all sorts of like stories about complications around release. Geena
S1: Davis is a very well known, very successful, very talented actress.
S1: The idea of her signing on for a movie where
S1: she essentially has one very brief scene where she says
S1: stuff before being killed seems unlikely to me. I wonder
S1: whether there are maybe some bits and pieces to this
S1: film that are on the cutting room floor that might
S1: have made it make more sense. But that's just entirely speculation.
S3: Yeah, I get the feeling there was some studio fingerprints
S3: on this. You've got, like, you know, a first time director,
S3: even though she's a famous, like, I wonder what the
S3: power dynamic there was like, if, you know, the studio
S3: is saying, like, we need to change this, we need
S3: to change that. She probably feels like she didn't have
S3: much of a choice, and that was definitely something. I
S3: walked away thinking, like, I wonder if there is a
S3: director's cut version of this that looks slightly different. Um,
S3: but yeah, like there were some parts I enjoyed. It's
S3: always good to see someone vaping on screen. Um, and
S3: Channing was hitting that jewel pretty hard. And also, like
S3: I must say, even though I knew, like, where it
S3: was going and stuff, I did have the conversation with
S3: my wife. I watched it and I was like, I
S3: wonder how long obviously before I knew the really horrific stuff.
S3: And I was like, how long could I really, like,
S3: enjoy this island? Like, because the day times looked pretty sick.
S3: Like they were by the pool. There's good music on.
S3: Everyone's doing like MDMA and stuff. Obviously it all takes
S3: a horrific turn, but how long could you go before
S3: you're like, am I partying too many days in a
S3: row now?
S1: I know, I mean, like, how much can you just
S1: be in a pool? Like, you know that it's just
S1: there's a time limit to that. The last thing I
S1: want to say, and I don't want to do a
S1: whole big, boring, nepo baby thing, but I think Zoe
S1: Kravitz is an accomplished actress. But, you know, there's obviously
S1: helping hands in this industry the way that she's been
S1: able to be an accomplished actress, the way that she's
S1: been able to make a movie that costs $20 million,
S1: I think stems from her background in the lucky experiences
S1: she's had in life, and also it gives her a
S1: very particular sense of what issues are when it comes
S1: to women. I think that's why we sort of end
S1: on that girlboss note of like, I'm in charge now
S1: sort of thing, and that's not her fault. On a
S1: personal level, but on a structural level, the budget for
S1: the assistant, which, like I said, I think is one
S1: of the best movies to tackle this stuff was a
S1: $1.7 million, right? There's Julia Garner, Matthew Macfadyen. It has
S1: a really good cast, and it's a really interesting give.
S1: People like Kitty green, give them 20 lots of $1
S1: million to make movies like this. And I think that's
S1: also why I started to get so frustrated. It's like
S1: there are people who think they've got interesting things to
S1: say who maybe don't, but they are afforded enormous amounts
S1: of opportunities to do so. And then there are other
S1: really amazing directors and writers who are trying their best
S1: and making amazing stuff that barely anyone has ever heard of.
S1: And that's not Zoe Kravitz fault or Channing Tatum fault.
S1: That's just the way that Hollywood and the world work,
S1: but I thought it was worth pointing out.
S3: It's like the drop versus Mamma mia!
S5: We have to cut that bit. We're not cutting that bit.
S10: Meg, are.
S1: You up to season three of industry yet?
S2: Let me tell you, I am not. But I can't
S2: wait to hear your takes.
S1: I appreciate that you have indulged us the last few
S1: weeks as we have done this.
S2: I love it. It would be a good introduction when
S2: I finally get there.
S1: I like had an out of body experience when I
S1: read the episode description on binge for this. It was
S1: something like Harper, Yasmin and Robert travel to Switzerland to
S1: take part in a high stakes climate economic summit. And like,
S1: I was like, Holy shit, these guys are doing the
S1: thing that succession did so well. And I think probably
S1: at this point, the succession comparisons are getting a little
S1: bit tired, but it's clear the two guys, Mickey and Conrad,
S1: who wrote this show, did their homework. They watched succession.
S1: They looked at what made that show work and deconstructed
S1: it and have taken this in a similar direction, which
S1: is like, we've got these characters and I think unlike succession,
S1: we've got sort of more fun, more silly, more sometimes
S1: a little bit cartoonish skins, kinds of characters. What if
S1: we just take them, put them in an entirely different environment,
S1: make them interact with the people they don't normally interact with,
S1: throw wacky things in their direction, and have a couple
S1: of obligatory shots of PJs. Isn't that going to be
S1: a sick episode? And it was, wasn't it, Thomas?
S5: It really.
S3: Was. I was kind of like, you know, quietly disappointed
S3: not to see Alexander Skarsgard, like, descending.
S1: There was like another Norwegian sort of guy who came in.
S3: There was a there was a Nordic energy, not quite.
S5: As like, are there any like.
S2: Big name cameos in the show yet? If they're really
S2: channeling succession?
S1: I think that's one thing we are kind of missing.
S3: Yeah, yeah. No, they don't really do that. Um, but, yeah,
S3: it was an incredible episode. Uh, you know, I saw
S3: somewhere that one of the critics wrote that, you know,
S3: this is a show that is less interested in financial
S3: deals and is now just about each character's pathologies. And
S3: that is so true, which is also something you could
S3: apply to succession in the later seasons. But just this
S3: is such a great character study now of these, you know,
S3: kind of people who are circling each other and no
S3: one is able to get out of their own way
S3: and their own neuroses, but they're also desperate to take
S3: down the people who they claim to be close to.
S3: And in the next scene, they will be supporting those people. Like,
S3: it's just such a great kind of character analysis of people. Um,
S3: obviously amazing to be back on a private jet. Um,
S3: I actually do think it's been, I guess in terms
S3: of big name cameos, Kit Harington being added to this
S3: season as Jon Snow, you know, in the world of
S3: Jon Snow.
S5: Whoa.
S1: Whoa, Jon Snow.
S3: It's super out of context. But no, he's actually been
S3: a great addition. Um, you know, just to kind of
S3: like like, like be a cat amongst the pigeons. Um,
S3: but I just thought this episode was amazing. And also
S3: one of the like, this is what's so great about
S3: industry and also succession. But like it is, this was
S3: the funniest episode of industry I reckon I've seen in
S3: a long time because they're going to a climate change,
S3: you know, like I guess conference to try and sell
S3: green energy ideas and you know, there's all these great
S3: like kind of like little just one liners about how
S3: it's an unnaturally warm winter. So there's no snow. And
S3: Eric's really disappointed about that. So good. And you know
S3: another big investor is like, do I care if Venice
S3: is underwater by 2075? It's a shithole in the summer.
S3: Like it's just, you know, like these awful people saying
S3: awful things. And that's what we watch TV for.
S1: And, you know, the other bit and this is like
S1: extremely just like specific to me. So they make a
S1: reference that the meeting they're going to is a cop meeting,
S1: which is the conference of parties to the United Nations
S1: Framework for the Convention on Climate Change, which are those
S1: big meetings where they discuss treaties and whatever. I actually
S1: attended one in a 2019, uh, Copenhagen. And in fact,
S1: it was on that trip that I was in a
S1: bar in Copenhagen. We all sang Wonderwall. Um, so I've
S1: been to these things and, you know, they, they they
S1: left me feeling profoundly cynical about the way that, like
S1: these big international forums that largely like they they make
S1: all these jokes about how, you know, if this is
S1: about diplomats are coming and negotiating deals, but really, that's
S1: all a side show because all the really important stuff
S1: are these business guys doing deals and just how kind
S1: of much of a joke that makes of the climate system,
S1: and that certainly the experience of many people, including me,
S1: who witnessed these things up close. So as well as,
S1: as you said, Thomas, being an incredible deep dive into
S1: the pathology of these sorts of folk, it still manages
S1: to land like quite significant and meaty blows on things
S1: as significant as global capitalism and the climate change framework
S1: we are all relying on. And that's a cool thing
S1: for a show to do. And on top of that,
S1: and yeah, sorry if I say this too much, but
S1: it's the last time I'm going to get a chance
S1: to say on this podcast. It is a fun hang show. Like,
S1: I love hanging out with these guys. It is just
S1: so interesting when you know there's an amazing sauna scene
S1: with your guy Joel Kim Booster. You know, I don't
S1: know if that counts as like a famous cameo, but
S1: you know him. You like him. He's in a sauna.
S1: He's completely nude. He is at a moment stroking himself
S1: in a, in a, in a kind of example of
S1: trying to get dominance on this other guy. It is
S1: so funny. It is. It is so cool. The show
S1: just keeps throwing us random stuff like that. Um, yeah.
S1: Please everyone. My last, my last wish on the drop
S1: is to get people into this show, because if you
S1: all watch it, we will hopefully get way more stuff
S1: like it.
S3: Yeah. And I think it does a really like it
S3: does something really good in TV shows that especially once
S3: you are three seasons in one, they start to like
S3: mix up the dynamics and they pair up people that
S3: haven't previously been together. And you like see that it works.
S3: So I love that we're getting like both Eric and
S3: Robert in this episode. Like, ah, a kind of pair,
S3: you know? Unfortunately, because of a mix up at the
S3: front desk of their very fancy hotel, they have to
S3: share a bed and like, they become a funny, odd couple.
S3: And then you've got this weird dynamic between Eric and Yasmin,
S3: which is like, is there something sexual going on or
S3: what's happening there? And like, I guess the show has
S3: always hinged on the Eric and Harper dynamic. You know,
S3: it's such a loaded, complex relationship where he was the
S3: mentor and she was the mentee. And then it's kind
S3: of continued to change. And they haven't even been in
S3: a scene together this season. And then we finally get
S3: at the end of this episode, the most, like, Shakespearean
S3: kind of comeuppance from Harper, where she, you know, she's
S3: kind of walking out of the conference as the head
S3: of this new fund, and they engage Pierpoint to look
S3: after them. And she, like, demands that he look her
S3: in the eye after he's just had a bender with
S3: a prostitute. Like, it was just incredible. Like, you know,
S3: it does all these things so well and it has
S3: figured out its characters so well. It knows exactly when to, like,
S3: push them or pull them back or who to pair
S3: them with. It really is some of the best TV
S3: and I'm so glad that I pushed you onto it. Osmond.
S1: Uh, also, um, that that scene, like, you know, Harper
S1: getting her revenge on the actress who plays her. Mihaela
S1: posted a screenshot, I think, before the episode came out
S1: of just like her smile looking at Eric and the
S1: music was DMX's X gon give it to you. And
S1: I'm like, that's fun, that's cool. I like when the
S1: worlds collide. Um, all right, time to wrap up with
S1: our Impress Your Friends segment where we share something we've watched,
S1: listen to, read, or consumed in the world of culture. Meg,
S1: we have talked for a long time and haven't heard
S1: your voice.
S5: What what.
S1: What do you want to what do you want to
S1: recommend for us this.
S5: Week?
S2: Uh, my Impress Your Friends may not impress your friends
S2: because it's incredibly dorky. Um, but it's a new ABC show,
S2: which is Guy Montgomery's guy spelling bee, which is literally
S2: just a spelling bee on television. Um, guy Montgomery is
S2: a New Zealand comedian. He's brought the show over from
S2: New Zealand. It previously had a season that ran in
S2: New Zealand last year before that. He actually ran it.
S2: I remember a couple of years back he ran it
S2: at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival. So basically it involves
S2: a few local comedians just getting up and acting as
S2: the spelling bee participants. It's way more entertaining than it sounds.
S2: They do different challenges. They spell people's name from the audience,
S2: which isn't as fraught as it sounds. Um, it's a
S2: really good example of a show that's like this very
S2: simple concept. You just get talented people in the room
S2: and they make something really special out of it. He's
S2: also joined by Aaron Chen, who is an Australian comedian,
S2: that a lot of people in the industry have been like,
S2: that guy needs to have a TV show. Why doesn't
S2: Chen have an ABC show? This is kind of it. Um, yeah.
S2: I think it's just a really great way. I mean,
S2: it's one of those perfect shows. If you're a fan
S2: of something like Taskmaster, which is like this short, silly,
S2: fun show you can digest in a small amount of
S2: time As a new parent. That's a really important facet
S2: of my TV watching. At this point, I only really
S2: have capacity for things 20 minutes at a time. But
S2: it's also, I mean, in the interest of getting people
S2: to make shows like this, this is totally one to support.
S2: People need to be streaming shows like this. So, you know,
S2: Australian comedians can also get things like this off the
S2: ground without having runs on the board in New Zealand.
S2: And it does feature a whole lot of up and
S2: coming Australian comedians as well. As you know, of course,
S2: Tom Gleeson is on the first episode, it's ABC and
S2: he has to be. But you know, the second episode
S2: also has like Urvi Majumdar, who is someone I hadn't
S2: heard of, but she apparently has like a fresh blood
S2: pilot that like, you know, doesn't get the airtime. It should.
S2: And it's nice to see her up on screen getting
S2: getting the word out.
S1: Yeah, really great to see the ABC taking a risk,
S1: which is something we've often, you know, chided them for.
S1: I've not seen the show, but I think Guy Montgomery
S1: and Aaron Tran are very, very, very funny. So thank
S1: you for that.
S2: Aaron in particular is very good. He's just doing like
S2: the full off the beach stick and a lot of
S2: prop comedy, which also sounds bad, but just trust me,
S2: it's good.
S1: I do trust you. I do trust you. Thomas. What
S1: have you got? Uh, look.
S3: I thought I would theme this one, and I am
S3: recommending that you impress your friends by getting them to
S3: revisit Oasis Supersonic, the 2016 documentary produced by Asif Kapadia.
S3: Obviously the director of Amy. It's on Amazon Prime, and
S3: if you haven't actually seen it, it is an incredible documentary.
S3: It kind of revisits the band at the height of
S3: their 90s fame. It got, you know, like first person
S3: interviews with Noel and Liam, who were not on speaking
S3: terms at the time it was made, as well as
S3: like all the people in their life. Um, but look,
S3: obviously we are in this, you know, Oasis renaissance right now.
S3: Everyone's going to be talking about them for a long time.
S3: Probably bored of it by the time the tour rolls around.
S3: But if you were keen to kind of be like, okay,
S3: I may as well can't fight this Oasis return, so
S3: let me get back in the zone. It is actually
S3: a really well made documentary, and the music is great,
S3: and it will confirm whether or not you are excited
S3: about the Oasis return or if you are just going
S3: to tune out.
S1: Well timed, well timed recommendation. Um, mine is a film
S1: called Strange Darlings. It's out right now is a really
S1: interestingly constructed film. It's kind of, I think, a little
S1: bit of a nod to to Tarantino, not really in
S1: sort of the themes necessarily, or the, the hyper violence,
S1: but in terms of these kind of like six seemingly
S1: unlinked chapters that are told that all end up kind
S1: of collapsing in on themselves. It's this really electric, sharp, thrilling,
S1: serial killer movie. I really don't want to say too
S1: much about the plot, because I think the less you
S1: know going into this one, the better. One of the
S1: really interesting things about this movie, it's shot on 35mm
S1: film by Giovanni Ribisi, the very prolific actor who's making
S1: his debut as a cinematographer and, like most of the
S1: media I've seen, is focused on that because, like a
S1: lot of the people involved in the production are not
S1: super famous. Uh, it's just really good. And if you
S1: want to see a good movie that is out that
S1: is interesting will make you think and looks different to
S1: a lot of the other stuff out there. Strange darlings.
S1: Give it a go. All right, so just before we
S1: wrap up, it is my last episode on the drop.
S1: I did some thank yous last week, but just to reiterate,
S1: you know, we can't make this show without our wonderful
S1: producers Kai Cormack, David, and of course, the wonderful Ruby Schwartz,
S1: who was our lead producer during the succession episodes, which
S1: I think are a big part of the reason so
S1: many of you listening have jumped on board, and it
S1: was really fun to do that. One of the most
S1: fun things I think I've managed to do in my
S1: time in Australian media. And of course, it started with
S1: the three of us, Meg, Thomas and myself. Meg, you
S1: went to have a family, which is very exciting.
S5: And then very rude of me.
S1: Mel jumped on board and it's very sad that Mel's
S1: been unwell, but she's on the mend. I know I
S1: keep saying that, but she's definitely on the mend.
S5: Definitely.
S2: Sounds like you have her locked on an island somewhere that.
S1: Um. I don't have her locked in an island somewhere. Um,
S1: but yeah, huge, huge, huge thanks to to you guys
S1: and to Mel for making this the funnest part of
S1: my job every week.
S3: I'm obviously very sad you're leaving, and it's been the
S3: highlight of all of our weeks, I would say. And
S3: you know, my first regular podcast ever and it's been
S3: such a pleasure and honor to do it alongside you, Osman.
S3: And I know I speak for Mel as well, who
S3: is very sad that she can't be here today. Um,
S3: that it's been such a great experience and one of
S3: the one of the true work highlights in a long career.
S3: So we will miss you. And I don't doubt that
S3: the listeners will miss you and you're one of a kind.
S3: So I was thinking about whether or not there's an
S3: appropriate Oasis song, whether it's we can choose between Stop
S3: Crying Your Heart Out or Don't Look Back in Anger.
S3: But I think that Live Forever is perhaps the most applicable.
UU: Wasting things. I'll never see you. I'm gonna live forever. I'm.
UU: Gonna live for Don't fall for it.
S1: Ah, that's really nice. And you mentioned our listeners and
S1: I should say that since we announced the news last week, the, uh,
S1: amount of listeners who have contacted me on all sorts
S1: of platforms, people have left multiple five star reviews saying
S1: how sad they are. I mean, you could have done
S1: that while I was around, you know? You know, the
S1: fact that our review rating dropped to 4.3 is the
S1: reason why I'm leaving, frankly. Um, but no, but thanks
S1: to this, this has been such a lovely community of people.
S1: And thank you for those words, Thomas. Um, before we
S1: wrap up, make sure to stick around for my conversation
S1: with Charlie Vickers, one of the stars of The Rings
S1: of Power. It was a super interesting chat with him
S1: about taking on the role of one of the most
S1: notorious villains in literary and cinematic history, and the process
S1: of working on one of the most expensive TV shows
S1: ever made. Thomas, Mel. Thomas, Meg. Wow.
S5: I was going to. We can keep fitting. Way to end.
S5: We can keep.
S1: That one.
S5: In.
S2: It happens a lot. Listeners.
S1: Thanks heaps guys.
S5: Thanks. Thank you.
S1: Charlie Vickers, thank you so much for joining the show.
S11: Thank you Osman, thanks for having me.
S1: In The Rings of Power, you play one of the
S1: most notorious, well known literary villains of all time. I've
S1: read that you actually didn't know that you were playing
S1: Sauron until you were well into production on the first season.
S1: Is that the case?
S11: Yeah, I think I'd been in New Zealand for over
S11: six months and we'd had a hiatus because of Covid.
S11: And then once the hiatus finished, we were about to
S11: start filming episode three, and the showrunners called me into
S11: their office and said, yeah, this character Halbrand, that you've
S11: been playing, he's actually Sauron.
S1: Of all the reveals.
S5: To have. Exactly.
S11: And I was just like, what? I was a bit suspicious. Yeah.
S11: I had an inkling that maybe there was more to
S11: Halbrand than met the eye.
S1: I know that some of your fellow cast members weren't
S1: even sure the nature of the show when they were
S1: auditioning for it. Is that something that's like, relatively common?
S1: Was that your experience on this, or did you have
S1: a bit more Intel as to what this was about?
S11: No, that was that was um, my experience as well.
S11: I think it is quite common, particularly shows with big IP,
S11: that they don't release much information. So the sides, the
S11: scenes that we got, they're all dummy scenes to audition
S11: with and the character names were all altered. So I
S11: had no idea. I actually auditioned for Elrond originally, but
S11: I didn't know it was Elrond. It was only in hindsight. Yeah, right.
S11: So yeah, I think I did maybe seven auditions. Um,
S11: so it was a long process. They really very thorough.
S1: And one of those auditions, I think, involved you performing
S1: Milton's Paradise Lost, which is the quintessential angel falling from heaven. Yeah,
S1: that that that must have been fun. Did that give
S1: you a bit of an inkling as to where the
S1: show and character was going?
S11: That was why I was a bit suspicious when of
S11: the Halbrand character, because on the surface, he's a villager
S11: with this kind of hidden nobility, a past that was
S11: connected to a line of kings. But then I was like,
S11: I just auditioned with Paradise Lost, playing Satan. And then
S11: I did a Richard the Third speech. So I was like,
S11: there must be a dark element to this character.
S1: It's either a succession spin off or.
S11: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
S1: What kind of relationship, if any, did you have with
S1: the the books, the franchise before getting involved on The
S1: Rings of Power?
S11: I, um, I was a fan of Lord of the rings,
S11: but pretty much through the Peter Jackson films. I mean,
S11: they popularized it for the world, I think, and I
S11: was definitely the target audience. I was I was a
S11: kid or an adolescent when all that came out, and
S11: I was pretty obsessed with those films, but I'd never
S11: read anything beyond that. I'd never read The Hobbit, I'd
S11: never read the trilogy or The Silmarillion, and I played
S11: the PlayStation games as well. They were very intense, very difficult.
S11: I remember them being really difficult.
S5: I remember the same thing. Yeah.
S11: But it wasn't until I was cast that I just thought,
S11: you know, I've got to sit down and read everything. Yeah.
S11: And there's a lot of reading.
S1: I feel like the world is split into normal people
S1: and like Silmarillion guys, like people that read the appendices
S1: and know all that sort of stuff. Once you did
S1: get into that, you're like, okay, this is helpful for
S1: my character. And or are you just, like, overwhelmed by
S1: the sheer amount of lore and history?
S11: I think that's I think that's it's a bit of both.
S11: You will never have read everything that Tolkien has written,
S11: because there is so much lore and mythology around the
S11: whole thing. But I definitely became one of those Silmarillion guys.
S11: And it's it's I can see why people get so
S11: obsessed with that, because it's such a vast and detailed
S11: world that he created and some of the stories like. Yeah,
S11: there are parts of that book that are a bit
S11: of a slog to get through. But there are other
S11: parts which are just incredible, and I found it particularly
S11: useful because it it's Sauron's whole story, and it's different
S11: to the Sauron that has been popularized. He is walking around, talking,
S11: interacting with people. And yeah.
S1: In the films you mentioned, Sauron is this huge presence.
S1: He's largely a disembodied burning eye. There's a couple of
S1: scenes with him being played. I think Sally Baker, the
S1: New Zealand actor in the Suits of Armor for you,
S1: is it is it like helpful that it's a bit
S1: of a blank slate to play him as quote unquote
S1: human like as a physical person? Or is it a
S1: little bit daunting because, you know, when everyone knows where
S1: this is going, you're going to end up being one
S1: of the most famous evil eyes of all time. How
S1: does that impact the way that you approach making the show?
S11: I don't see it so much as a daunting thing,
S11: because I think when you join a show like this,
S11: I had to learn to let go of expectation of
S11: people because everyone has their opinion and you take the
S11: ones that you think are really useful to your development
S11: of the character. But I loved the process of developing
S11: him throughout this time period because it's a real opportunity,
S11: because he is. Tolkien wrote of him in this time
S11: period that he is a character that wants to heal
S11: and rehabilitate and restore middle earth, and that's kind of
S11: the way I approach the character. I wanted to find
S11: an emotional through line and something that like, I know
S11: he's a villain and that's that is the purpose that
S11: he serves in this story. But I never really found
S11: it that helpful for me to look at him from
S11: that point of view as an actor. So I kind
S11: of wanted to find the elements of his character that
S11: I could really connect to. And I that was, I
S11: felt an enormous privilege to have the opportunity to bring
S11: this part of him to life, particularly as Tolkien wrote
S11: in such detail and cared about Sauron. It seems, he wrote,
S11: like all these incarnations of this character. I mean, he
S11: was originally a giant house cat called Tisvilde.
S5: Seriously?
S11: Yeah, that was his first incarnation of Sauron. And then,
S11: you know, stories like Beren and Luthien and you see
S11: the development of the character in Tolkien's mind. And he,
S11: he wrote, um, these, these letters which were being collated,
S11: and they're personal letters. They're professional letters. But in them,
S11: he kind of details his thoughts about his own characters
S11: and the purpose they serve in his stories. So I
S11: found that really helpful. So overall, it's been a massive privilege.
S1: Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, it makes sense because
S1: one thing we everyone knows about this character is he's
S1: a villain. So the fact that, like, you can add
S1: something to that that gives you some. It's so interesting
S1: to me when there's a character who is like an antagonist,
S1: but you follow them, you still want to care about them,
S1: and weirdly, you end up feeling sympathy for them. At
S1: moments like the season premiere, season two premiere is very graphic,
S1: violent scene. That's like a bit of a prologue to it.
S1: This guy is like, like I said, one of the
S1: most evil literary characters of all time. But you still
S1: feel pretty bad when those guys are going to town
S1: on it.
S12: Oh yeah.
S11: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that is it. And it's
S11: that maybe there will be people that feel sympathetic towards
S11: him as as the show goes on. But I kind
S11: of when I think about it, I think it's more
S11: of a thing of I just hope people enjoy watching
S11: him do his thing. It's kind of like there's an
S11: element of anti-hero about him in that you kind of
S11: are taking pleasure as an audience member, watching him manipulate
S11: and and navigate his way through middle earth. And yeah,
S11: that's something that I'm looking forward to seeing when I
S11: watch the rest of the episodes.
S1: Can you talk to me a little bit about the
S1: physical demands of this particular role? Like in both seasons,
S1: there seems to be a lot of scenes involving water.
S1: I think you guys were like on a raft for
S1: a very long period of time. And then the character
S1: also goes through a pretty significant physical transformation in season two.
S1: And I heard somewhere that you wore weights to sort
S1: of change the way that you moved. Can you talk
S1: to me about all the kind of the physical stunt
S1: side of a role like this? Yeah.
S11: For sure. I mean, it is incredibly particularly the first
S11: season was physical because Halbrand was kind of always in
S11: a physical situation, and he was a man of the earth. Right? Um, so, yeah,
S11: I always seemed to be in water on the show.
S11: I'm always and I'm wearing leather trousers when I'm. And
S11: it was the same this season, at the start of
S11: this season. Um, sodden leather trousers at the bottom of
S11: a massive water tank. And that's incredibly demanding. I had
S11: to learn to do a bit of free diving and
S11: breath holding and stuff to be able to do that. Yeah,
S11: and horse riding and such. So it is a lot.
S11: We did a lot of stunt work we kind of
S11: did in New Zealand. We were doing like 2 or
S11: 3 hours of stunts every morning, just sword fighting. Yeah. Um,
S11: but the second season, it kind of goes from physical
S11: challenges to quite linguistically challenging, and there's quite long scenes
S11: that are real meaty actor scenes. And that was an
S11: enormous challenge. And the ankle weights I used as a tool,
S11: something I've had from drama school, but I wore them
S11: for the first two weeks or so of filming, and
S11: it helped me because he's a god. It kind of
S11: helped me establish this sense of the literal sense of
S11: weight of the character, and the whole character is geared
S11: towards Celebrimbor. It's he's the greatest of elven smiths. He's
S11: like a celebrity in Middle-Earth. And it's like, who would
S11: he respond to?
S1: Yeah, right.
S11: Who who's the kind of person that could appear to
S11: him and say, let's make these rings to save all
S11: of middle earth. And for me, it was this annatar
S11: figure that Tolkien writes about. And all Tolkien said about
S11: Annatar was that he has a fair form and that
S11: he has a regality to him. He's regal. And yeah,
S11: I just use that and the ankle weights and the
S11: physicality of that, everything's quite still and contained. And yeah,
S11: it's those little tidbits of information that you can get
S11: from the books which inform the character.
S1: Yeah, that's really interesting. The show is the most expensive
S1: show ever made. A lot of Australian actors I talk
S1: to know they work on generally small scale productions, and
S1: in some cases they get 1 or 2 takes to
S1: film a scene and it's like, that's the best take.
S1: We're moving on. On a show like this, with the scale,
S1: the production values, the drive, the ambition to make it
S1: the biggest. How different is that? Like, do you have
S1: more time to rehearse? Do you have more time opportunities
S1: to get it right? Does it shift the way that
S1: the actual mechanics of making this show work?
S11: I think it's twofold. This season, I felt like there
S11: was a bit of time and we were lucky. Charles Edwards,
S11: who plays Kelly Brimble, he and I filmed most of
S11: our scenes chronologically. Oh, cool. And which was which is
S11: really rare. But because of that, it felt like we
S11: had a lot of time.
S1: I think for a lot of people, they don't know
S1: that like TV shows, films are not always filmed. Yeah.
S1: The order of the start to the end. So that
S1: is kind of rare. Yeah.
S11: Often, like, I'll. You'll get to set. And you're filming
S11: the last season scene of a season first.
S1: Right, right, right.
S11: You know, but so for us to film it basically
S11: all in order was really special. And it meant that
S11: it felt like we had time and we were basically
S11: on one set. So we did get maybe you never
S11: really do more than like, four takes. Okay. Three. It's
S11: normally probably. Yeah. Two, three four takes.
S1: I didn't mean to imply, by the way, that you're
S1: really bad and you need 20 takes. Oh, no.
S11: Yeah, I need 35 takes every time. No, but often,
S11: like on slower moving films, you do get the opportunity
S11: to do more takes. That is a thing. And it's
S11: not nothing to do with acting. It's more just if
S11: the time is there, why not use it?
S1: Have the options.
S11: Yeah, but it is all relative. I mean, the budget
S11: and the scale of this production, I think, you know,
S11: you can. Tolkien is the only way to do it,
S11: is to have resource to do it, because it's such
S11: a massive world and you need totally.
S1: You can't phone it in.
S11: No, that's the thing you need to. And that's in
S11: all levels. What the the resources of the show have
S11: given us is a level of quality from, like, everyone
S11: has put their heart and soul into it, whether you're actors,
S11: producers or you're in the costume department or set department. Um,
S11: there is so much love poured into it. And that's
S11: the thing that I've really taken away from the experience,
S11: because it's I think you can't do Tolkien without that
S11: level of care.
S1: Amazing. Yeah. You talked a bit earlier about the weight
S1: of expectation and how you just can't really let that
S1: kind of distract you from just doing your job and
S1: giving the performance your best. But given that the first
S1: season was a critical success, like a ratings success, you've
S1: sort of proven yourselves. Now going into the second season
S1: when you were filming that, did that shift at all
S1: your work where you're like, okay, now we've done it,
S1: we know we can do it. I'm like a little
S1: bit nervous to prove that we can do it again.
S1: We can do it better. We can do it as good.
S11: I think you have. It wasn't so much because of
S11: the reception that I. That changed my perception. I think
S11: it was more for me developing a level of comfort
S11: as an actor when you walk onto a set with.
S11: When I walked on my first day in New Zealand,
S11: and there's 500 people in the video village and a
S11: huge cranes, and I'd never experienced anything like that. And
S11: so and I think it was every like most of
S11: us in the cast had never experienced anything like that.
S11: So there was a level certainly across the cast, this
S11: low level of, um, kind of like, wow, this is big.
S11: And I had to sort of learn to be comfortable
S11: in that environment. And the biggest change with the second
S11: season is you take feedback from people that are close
S11: to you and people that, um, you think opinions, people
S11: that have a really good judge of shows or media
S11: or whatever it is. But the second season, it was
S11: mainly just the fact that I was I was used
S11: to going onto sets like that. Yeah. So I had
S11: this level of ease and I was able to have
S11: a lot more fun with it because I was comfortable
S11: going to work every day, and I kind of knew
S11: what to expect. Yeah, yeah. And that's something that we
S11: just developed through familiarity and working in the environment over
S11: the first season. So in a way, the second season
S11: is just kind of been like the shackles are off
S11: and I've just had so much fun doing it.
S1: That's awesome. That's really cool to hear. Yeah. Uh, one
S1: of the last things I wanted to ask you is
S1: I'd probably applied more to the big reveal of the
S1: first season, but there still twists and turns and lots
S1: of things to come in the second season. These days, fans,
S1: they love to pass every single thing that is said
S1: in an interview, and people sometimes slip up and they
S1: don't know what's been revealed and what hasn't been revealed.
S1: Has that been a stressful part of making this show?
S11: Usually, like the first, the first season when I was
S11: doing media and the press tour, I really had to
S11: make sure I didn't give any spoilers away. And that's like.
S12: Did you hold it?
S1: Did you manage.
S12: To? Yeah, I don't.
S11: Think I gave. People got quite good stuff. The tour
S11: started off being like, oh, I think Sarah might be
S11: in the show. And then by the end they were like,
S11: You're Sauron, aren't you? So I had to just deny, deny, deny.
S11: I would always say something along the lines of like,
S11: oh yeah, that's interesting. That's a good theory. So, um,
S11: I think some actors just lie about it, and I
S11: guess I was kind of bending the truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
S11: But I think other people in the cast were worried
S11: they would be the ones to give it away.
S12: Gotcha, gotcha.
S1: Not their secret to tell.
S12: Yeah, exactly.
S1: And just finally, you're from Geelong.
S12: Your cats fan. Big time you're feeling good about.
S11: I'm a bit apprehensive. I mean, no, we're in okay.
S11: We're in okay form. But Port Adelaide in Adelaide.
S12: Yeah.
S11: Yeah that's a tough ask for any team. And they've
S11: won five in a row.
S12: They're finishing very.
S11: Strong. Maybe even more than five in a row.
S12: Yeah yeah yeah I'm.
S1: A Sydney fan. So we you know we had the
S1: great start then we freaked out. But we're doing well
S1: but excited that we're both. You know.
S12: I was I.
S11: Hoped we'd be playing you guys. I would have hoped
S11: we finished fourth, but we finished third in the end.
S11: Good luck.
S12: Thanks. You too. Thanks. Thanks, Charlie.
S1: Thank you so much for coming.
S12: On the show. Thanks, Osman.
S11: See you for the grand final.
S12: See you then.
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Qiwang. If
S1: you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, make
S1: sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app. Leave
S1: us a review or better yet, share the episode with
S1: a friend.