WEBVTT - The stylish, divisive 'Blink Twice', Oasis is back, and 'Industry' gets even better 0:00:07.790 --> 0:00:10.789 Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a 0:00:10.789 --> 0:00:13.730 weekly culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, 0:00:13.730 --> 0:00:16.009 where we dive into the latest in the world of 0:00:16.010 --> 0:00:20.660 pop culture and entertainment made with Thomas Mitchell and Meg Watson. 0:00:20.690 --> 0:00:21.800 How're you going, pals? 0:00:21.829 --> 0:00:25.880 Going good. I've been blasting Wonderwall for 48 hours straight. 0:00:26.540 --> 0:00:27.470 Ready to go? 0:00:28.820 --> 0:00:31.820 I'm excited to get into that one with you guys. 0:00:31.850 --> 0:00:33.650 How are you doing, Thomas? Yeah, not too bad. 0:00:33.650 --> 0:00:37.550 Lots of conflicted emotions this morning. You know, I've just 0:00:37.550 --> 0:00:41.870 seen that Thanasi Kokkinakis has knocked out Stefanos Tsitsipas out 0:00:41.870 --> 0:00:45.050 of the US open in round one. So you know 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.690 great for the Greek Australian. But this is kind of 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:49.190 the great Greek hope of tennis. 0:00:49.190 --> 0:00:51.589 So you have a preference between the two of those. 0:00:51.620 --> 0:00:55.160 As a Greek Australian I would assume it would be Kokkinakis. 0:00:55.190 --> 0:00:57.530 Yeah. But I feel like Sisyphus is more likely to 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:59.860 go all the way I see. 0:00:59.890 --> 0:01:01.660 I see. So we've just knocked out a Greek, and 0:01:01.660 --> 0:01:02.920 the other Greek is probably going to lose in the 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:03.820 next round. Exactly. 0:01:03.850 --> 0:01:05.260 Probably to a Russian or something. 0:01:05.260 --> 0:01:07.839 So it feels this is like lateral Greek on Greek 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.780 violence that this, that this tournament did not need. Whoever 0:01:10.780 --> 0:01:13.870 drew those, you know, drew those rounds had something against 0:01:13.870 --> 0:01:14.199 you guys. 0:01:14.230 --> 0:01:17.440 I know. Just be thankful that Kyrgios isn't involved creating 0:01:17.470 --> 0:01:20.320 the sideshow that he does. So yeah, there's a lot 0:01:20.350 --> 0:01:22.600 to process. But I am also very happy about the 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.289 Oasis news in news that will shock nobody. I love Oasis, 0:01:26.290 --> 0:01:28.450 so yeah. Big week. 0:01:28.569 --> 0:01:30.010 Yeah we are we are going to get into it. 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:31.300 Look it's a big show as well. It's going to 0:01:31.300 --> 0:01:34.090 be a fun show. It's my last show with you guys. 0:01:34.090 --> 0:01:36.400 We did think long and hard about whether we should 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.610 do something fun and wacky, like a highlight reel. Of 0:01:39.610 --> 0:01:42.459 all the times I was wrong about various things, but 0:01:42.459 --> 0:01:45.100 when deciding the best way to sign off, we ultimately 0:01:45.100 --> 0:01:48.790 went with just a normal episode where we provide smart 0:01:48.790 --> 0:01:52.840 and fun conversations about what's happening in culture that feels fitting. 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.350 So here's what's in store for today's episode. We're going 0:01:56.380 --> 0:02:00.210 to be discussing the very stylish yet very divisive debut 0:02:00.210 --> 0:02:03.750 film from Zoe Kravitz. It's called Blink Twice. We're going 0:02:03.780 --> 0:02:06.360 to discuss where it fits in the landscape of what 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:11.190 I'm calling post-metoo thrillers. We also have the very fun, 0:02:11.190 --> 0:02:14.670 very exciting news that Oasis, the band that, yes, as 0:02:14.669 --> 0:02:17.910 you guessed, served as both the aesthetic and moral compass 0:02:17.910 --> 0:02:21.120 for Thomas for a very long time. They're reforming and 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.550 they're playing, and there's going to be a lot to discuss. 0:02:23.850 --> 0:02:27.810 We're also going to talk about industry's third episode of 0:02:27.810 --> 0:02:30.990 this season. At the very end of this episode, I 0:02:30.990 --> 0:02:34.200 have a special interview with Australian actor Charlie Vickers, who 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.780 plays the role of Sauron in the Lord of the 0:02:36.780 --> 0:02:40.260 Rings The Rings of Power. It's the most watched show 0:02:40.260 --> 0:02:43.680 in Amazon Prime Video's history. It's a pretty fun and 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.500 interesting chat. I'll say more about that at the end 0:02:46.500 --> 0:02:49.380 of the episode. But first up, there's some news in 0:02:49.380 --> 0:02:51.840 TV land. It looks like Ted Lasso, one of the 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.370 most popular TV shows of this streaming era we're living 0:02:55.370 --> 0:02:59.870 in is returning for a fourth season. Deadline reported that 0:02:59.870 --> 0:03:03.470 Apple has started locking down returning cast members in contracts 0:03:03.470 --> 0:03:06.020 and taking up their options. It's been more than a 0:03:06.020 --> 0:03:09.170 year since season three wrapped up. I think it's sort 0:03:09.169 --> 0:03:11.210 of safe to say that it was a bit of 0:03:11.210 --> 0:03:15.709 a middling third season, but the show was enormously popular, 0:03:15.710 --> 0:03:18.440 and I think still is for I'm going to like 0:03:18.470 --> 0:03:20.840 maybe sorry if you're offended by this, like people like 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.600 my parents really like Ted Lasso. Um, how are you 0:03:23.630 --> 0:03:26.899 guys feeling about the state of the Ted Lasso verse? 0:03:26.930 --> 0:03:29.720 Are you excited about the season four news? Are you indifferent? 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:30.470 What do you think? 0:03:30.500 --> 0:03:32.600 I think that, like, if ever there was a case 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.990 of backed by mild demand, this is it. Like, I 0:03:35.990 --> 0:03:41.150 feel like season three was such a kind of middling 0:03:41.150 --> 0:03:46.730 season plagued by, I guess, like offset narratives around the show, 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.300 which weren't very positive. And then add into that a 0:03:50.300 --> 0:03:52.880 season that generally didn't match the quality of the first 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:54.830 two seasons. And like you said, I think it was, 0:03:54.860 --> 0:03:57.560 you know, a moment in time when we needed the 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.640 kind of aw, shucks Ned Flannery vibe of Ted Lasso. 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.120 And that time is over. Season three proved that. And 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:06.770 I guess Apple were just like, well, this is a 0:04:06.770 --> 0:04:09.500 big product for us. People love it. You know, it's 0:04:09.500 --> 0:04:11.330 got all these big names. We just obviously will bring 0:04:11.330 --> 0:04:13.460 it back if we can, you know, get everything over 0:04:13.460 --> 0:04:15.830 the line. But I just I think it is out 0:04:15.860 --> 0:04:19.460 of whack with what the culture wants. And I suspect 0:04:19.460 --> 0:04:22.250 should they get everyone back on board? It'll probably be 0:04:22.250 --> 0:04:25.670 the last season. Uh, to use a football analogy. Ted 0:04:25.670 --> 0:04:29.300 Lasso is currently in extra time, and we don't really 0:04:29.300 --> 0:04:30.409 need a penalty shootout. 0:04:32.150 --> 0:04:35.450 Oh my God. Gary Neville over there. Like, like everyone else, 0:04:35.450 --> 0:04:38.150 I was on board with season one, you know, as 0:04:38.150 --> 0:04:41.690 a fresh breath of fresh air in lockdowns and new thing. 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:43.880 A bit of fun. This news makes me want to 0:04:43.910 --> 0:04:45.650 shoot myself in my face. 0:04:45.980 --> 0:04:47.840 Oh my God, you really are spending too much time 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:49.700 with me. This is a real classic autism. 0:04:49.730 --> 0:04:51.400 You've got to have a strong take, right? And I 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.250 really strongly feel this way. Season three was I watched 0:04:54.250 --> 0:04:55.900 it out of obligation, I guess, to be some kind 0:04:55.900 --> 0:04:59.110 of completionist, but it was like it wasn't middling. It 0:04:59.110 --> 0:05:02.710 was awful. It was like written by I. Every episode 0:05:02.710 --> 0:05:06.039 was like an after school special, treating its audience like 0:05:06.070 --> 0:05:08.740 12 year olds who didn't know what, like being gay 0:05:08.770 --> 0:05:12.310 or revenge porn was. It was awful. And they even said, 0:05:12.339 --> 0:05:14.049 like Jason Sudeikis said from the outset, it was a 0:05:14.050 --> 0:05:16.690 three season story. And if they're not willing to call 0:05:16.690 --> 0:05:19.839 it time after that season, like it's so depressing. 0:05:19.870 --> 0:05:23.590 Hearing you talk about those plot points makes me realize 0:05:23.589 --> 0:05:26.440 I don't think I even finished season three, which says 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:27.640 a lot about this show. 0:05:27.670 --> 0:05:29.770 I mean, it literally ended with him going back to 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.320 the States and like being with his son. And the 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.800 last episode was called like, So Long, farewell. Like we're done. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:36.820 We gotta call it. 0:05:36.850 --> 0:05:39.550 I guess this is like this, this big question, right? 0:05:39.550 --> 0:05:43.570 Because you've got creatives who have this three season arc 0:05:43.570 --> 0:05:46.630 potentially in the middle of that. There's all this kind 0:05:46.630 --> 0:05:50.400 of drama and rumor about Sudeikis, just always like personal 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.279 life and maybe some issues on set. We never really 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.040 got total clarity about it, but the production was was 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.740 halted and it just seems like even their vision sort 0:05:58.770 --> 0:06:01.320 of started to fall apart because of what was going on. 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:04.500 That butts up against the fact that Apple, like a 0:06:04.500 --> 0:06:09.390 publicly listed company, has stumbled onto an extremely popular show 0:06:09.420 --> 0:06:13.290 that drove enormous amounts of subscriptions to their network. So 0:06:13.290 --> 0:06:16.529 you can imagine that the leadership at the company are like, okay, 0:06:16.740 --> 0:06:18.900 why are we stopping this? Even if, like, critics don't 0:06:18.900 --> 0:06:21.450 like it, I think most normal people watched it. Please, 0:06:21.450 --> 0:06:24.330 just like make more of this. The fact it's taken 0:06:24.330 --> 0:06:27.150 more than a year since season three ended for us 0:06:27.150 --> 0:06:30.900 to get this news, Sudeikis isn't confirmed. You can imagine 0:06:30.900 --> 0:06:33.210 he's probably just like, milking them like this could end 0:06:33.210 --> 0:06:38.760 up being one of the most lucrative TV deals for him. But, like, yeah, 0:06:38.790 --> 0:06:40.200 I mean, both of you guys seem to be saying 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.140 the same thing. No one really wants this, do they? 0:06:43.170 --> 0:06:45.630 I feel like some people masked because it was consistently 0:06:45.660 --> 0:06:48.140 like the top show on Apple. And I mean, like, 0:06:48.350 --> 0:06:50.840 how much does that say? Apple doesn't have that many shows, 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.300 but I think it is one of the ones that people, 0:06:53.300 --> 0:06:55.580 even if you didn't have a consistent Apple subscription, you'd 0:06:55.610 --> 0:06:58.370 sign back up and like see what's going on. And like, 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:00.859 I mean, I really didn't like season two either, but 0:07:00.860 --> 0:07:04.070 I still checked back in, out of interest. Um, like 0:07:04.100 --> 0:07:06.229 people watch it. And I suppose that counts for more 0:07:06.230 --> 0:07:08.570 than what critics think, or the fact that it's not 0:07:08.570 --> 0:07:11.150 like the Emmys juggernaut it was in season one. 0:07:11.150 --> 0:07:13.730 Yeah, I mean, I kind of agree. I think it 0:07:13.730 --> 0:07:15.860 probably is like a really smart play from Sudeikis. I 0:07:15.860 --> 0:07:17.870 kind of got the feeling, obviously. I think what's happened 0:07:17.870 --> 0:07:20.900 is the UK cast members, they're on different like kind 0:07:20.900 --> 0:07:24.500 of award contracts. So they've signed up earlier. So we 0:07:24.500 --> 0:07:26.780 obviously don't know who from the American cast will return. 0:07:26.780 --> 0:07:29.270 But I could also see a world in which like 0:07:29.300 --> 0:07:31.280 I mean, obviously the show is called Ted Lasso and 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.060 that's who Jason Sudeikis plays. But like, could we arguably 0:07:35.060 --> 0:07:37.490 his character I think is like the least interesting now. Like, 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.820 could we see a version of the show where, you know, 0:07:40.850 --> 0:07:44.660 he is either like a cameo and it's mostly about 0:07:44.660 --> 0:07:48.100 the remaining cast members back in the UK. That's possible, 0:07:48.100 --> 0:07:51.820 but yeah, um, I just don't know if if anyone 0:07:51.820 --> 0:07:52.480 cares anymore. 0:07:52.510 --> 0:07:54.640 The Ted Lasso extended universe. 0:07:54.670 --> 0:07:56.860 Well, people people were talking about that. People were kind 0:07:56.890 --> 0:07:59.890 of like there was discussion in TV land that Apple 0:07:59.890 --> 0:08:04.510 was investigating spin offs about, you know, Coach Beard or 0:08:04.510 --> 0:08:06.610 the guy that was the good guy who then became 0:08:06.610 --> 0:08:10.000 the bad guy. I can't remember the guy's name. Yeah. Nate. Um, 0:08:10.030 --> 0:08:12.520 and I just think that, like, even if that was 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:14.080 a thing, that we were all part of me, like, 0:08:14.110 --> 0:08:16.510 I also really enjoyed the first season. The second season 0:08:16.540 --> 0:08:18.610 a little bit less. So I wonder whether we were 0:08:18.610 --> 0:08:20.050 all caught up in a bit of a Covid fever 0:08:20.050 --> 0:08:20.920 dream for a little while. 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:22.960 I wonder that did I have brain worms? I don't know. 0:08:22.990 --> 0:08:25.540 I think it just like it was this antidote to 0:08:25.540 --> 0:08:29.290 the negativity and anxiety we felt. And yeah, it's like 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.420 fine to feel wholesome and watch something like that. I 0:08:31.450 --> 0:08:34.570 watched that first season multiple times over the course of 0:08:34.570 --> 0:08:37.000 multiple lockdowns. I think if it lands at any other 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.670 point where like, this is like a fine, kind of 0:08:39.670 --> 0:08:43.000 weird show, like almost everything else Apple TV does or 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.260 what we see in the streaming era. So yeah, just like, okay, 0:08:46.290 --> 0:08:48.090 this was a nice thing that happened at a dark 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.699 time for so many people. That's all it needs to be. 0:08:50.730 --> 0:08:52.559 We don't need to do more lasso stuff. 0:08:52.590 --> 0:08:55.829 I think Americans really like it, though. Derogatory. 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.160 It's like we, you know, we agreed unanimously that we 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.240 would stop baking sourdough. And then we also do not 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.790 need any more Ted Lasso. But anyway, I don't the 0:09:05.790 --> 0:09:07.679 people at Apple famously don't really listen to me, which 0:09:07.710 --> 0:09:10.650 is annoying. So they will do what they want to do. 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.339 The people on Apple Podcasts do enjoy listening to us though. 0:09:14.370 --> 0:09:15.690 Shout out to you guys! 0:09:15.870 --> 0:09:18.450 I've always been more of a Spotify guy, but. 0:09:19.380 --> 0:09:22.170 Speaking of listening to stuff, Oasis. 0:09:22.350 --> 0:09:25.410 Today is gonna be the day that they're gonna throw 0:09:25.410 --> 0:09:30.000 it back to you. By now, you should have somehow 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:35.700 realized what you gotta do. I don't believe that anybody 0:09:35.700 --> 0:09:39.630 feels the way I do about you now. 0:09:41.210 --> 0:09:48.650 Britpop legends, famously the most fractious brother duo music relationship 0:09:48.650 --> 0:09:53.750 in like music history. Perhaps they are reforming. It's been 0:09:53.750 --> 0:09:56.750 a very, very, very long time since Oasis performed. It's 0:09:56.750 --> 0:09:58.790 been 20 years since they performed in Australia. Just as 0:09:58.820 --> 0:10:01.100 a bit of an indication as to like how long 0:10:01.100 --> 0:10:04.670 ago these guys were last. Really hot and big and 0:10:04.670 --> 0:10:07.250 touring together. They have announced they're going to be playing 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.390 14 dates across the UK and Ireland and Wales in 0:10:11.390 --> 0:10:14.750 the middle of next year. They're strongly hinting at a 0:10:14.750 --> 0:10:18.110 global tour as well, though anything in Australia is yet 0:10:18.110 --> 0:10:22.610 to be confirmed. I will say something. You guys know me, 0:10:22.610 --> 0:10:26.390 listeners know me. I'm generally a pretty cynical person about 0:10:26.390 --> 0:10:30.110 many things, and I also think there is a part 0:10:30.110 --> 0:10:33.890 of this decision to reform that feels cynical. Like, again, 0:10:33.890 --> 0:10:38.300 I'm sure they've been handed enormous amounts of money for this. 0:10:38.510 --> 0:10:42.260 But all that aside, I don't feel anything other than 0:10:42.260 --> 0:10:45.440 just like, excitement about this news. I'm not here to 0:10:45.470 --> 0:10:47.390 like rain on People's parade and say this is all 0:10:47.390 --> 0:10:50.300 just a big cash grab. I think this is really 0:10:50.300 --> 0:10:53.900 nice and exciting news. I think the sheer volume of 0:10:53.900 --> 0:10:56.929 the reaction, there's all the people coming out of the 0:10:56.929 --> 0:10:59.900 woodwork talking about what it meant to be young and 0:10:59.900 --> 0:11:02.330 working class in Britain in the 90s, and what Oasis 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.449 meant to them. Older fans, younger fans, people who have 0:11:05.450 --> 0:11:09.020 Oasis tattoos. Thomas, whose personality was driven by wanting to 0:11:09.050 --> 0:11:11.240 look like Liam Gallagher for such a long time. It's 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.540 just nice and like, you know, Oasis has never been 0:11:14.540 --> 0:11:17.420 my favourite band. But, you know, I've belted Wonderwall out 0:11:17.450 --> 0:11:20.900 karaoke like a trillion times. That album, Champagne Supernova, like 0:11:20.929 --> 0:11:23.780 they're all they make great songs that were very, very 0:11:23.780 --> 0:11:27.890 reflective of that moment in kind of rock history, and 0:11:27.890 --> 0:11:30.829 it's really exciting that they're giving it another crack. I 0:11:30.860 --> 0:11:33.680 am really keen to know about your guys's relationship to 0:11:33.710 --> 0:11:36.410 this band and how you feel. Thomas, I think I'm 0:11:36.410 --> 0:11:36.860 going to start. 0:11:36.890 --> 0:11:38.140 Yeah, you got to start with Thomas. 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.780 You did? I should just say that you. You posted 0:11:40.780 --> 0:11:43.989 a photo in our work slack this morning of you 0:11:44.020 --> 0:11:48.100 dressed as Liam Gallagher with a photo of him alongside it. 0:11:48.130 --> 0:11:50.709 Was that for, like, a party, or did you just 0:11:50.710 --> 0:11:52.510 happen to look like him that day? And someone pointed 0:11:52.510 --> 0:11:54.550 out that you look exactly like him? 0:11:54.580 --> 0:11:56.950 No, it was. It was for a dress up party. Um, 0:11:56.980 --> 0:11:59.230 but I thought it was actually pretty good in terms of, 0:11:59.260 --> 0:12:02.500 you know, as far as celebrity lookalikes go, that was 0:12:02.500 --> 0:12:05.050 not a bad one. Yeah. I mean, look, obviously this 0:12:05.050 --> 0:12:07.720 is very exciting news. I think it was so funny, 0:12:07.750 --> 0:12:09.910 like watching it all play out on social media and 0:12:09.910 --> 0:12:12.970 stuff and everyone on my feed, you know, like the 0:12:12.970 --> 0:12:16.930 aging millennial men, the hair is maybe receding, the paunch 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.980 is pinching, the Parker doesn't fit so tight anymore. And 0:12:20.980 --> 0:12:24.819 yet we are excited. I obviously speak with a royal. 0:12:24.820 --> 0:12:26.679 We there for all the sad men out there. 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:26.920 Who. 0:12:27.340 --> 0:12:30.100 This brings back the crazy days of Britpop. I mean, 0:12:30.130 --> 0:12:31.960 admittedly I was a little bit young for the height 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:33.880 of Britpop, but yeah, I have been a long time 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.360 Oasis fan. I saw them at the end. I'm just 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.160 trying to find like when the tour was. I can't 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.470 remember the last time, but I saw Oasis on a 0:12:40.470 --> 0:12:42.209 tour and it was amazing. 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.130 I think, I think it was 2005. I think that 0:12:44.130 --> 0:12:45.750 was when they played the Enmore. Okay, cool. 0:12:45.750 --> 0:12:47.189 Yeah, right. So I must have been like, it must 0:12:47.190 --> 0:12:47.850 have been young. 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:48.059 Yeah. 0:12:48.059 --> 0:12:52.920 I was like, in year 11. Fucking killing it. SMP belt. Uh, yeah. Anyway, 0:12:52.950 --> 0:12:55.140 that was a fun time for me and Oasis, but yeah, 0:12:55.170 --> 0:12:56.760 it is very exciting. It's just I find the whole 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.370 thing very funny, though. Like, Noel is coming off the 0:12:59.370 --> 0:13:02.820 back of a very expensive surprise divorce. Like, it's costing 0:13:02.820 --> 0:13:05.610 him $20 million. And then literally, it was like last 0:13:05.610 --> 0:13:08.040 month that was announced and now the tour. So, like, 0:13:08.070 --> 0:13:09.960 did he get on the phone to Liam, be like, look, 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.839 I'm gonna level with you. I've taken quite the hit. 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.000 But yeah, whether or not they will come to Australia 0:13:15.030 --> 0:13:17.700 remains to be seen. Like I on the way to 0:13:17.730 --> 0:13:20.400 work this morning, I bumped into this guy I used 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.250 to work with English, 44 years old. So, like, right 0:13:23.250 --> 0:13:26.579 there in the demo and before I even like, we 0:13:26.610 --> 0:13:28.770 were both taking out our respective earbuds and he was 0:13:28.770 --> 0:13:31.949 like Oasis. And then I was like, oh yeah, you know, 0:13:31.980 --> 0:13:33.930 you're excited and stuff. And he's like, yeah, I've literally 0:13:33.950 --> 0:13:36.290 got my boys chat from home. Has been lighting up 0:13:36.290 --> 0:13:38.929 with like, mate, are you gonna fucking fly back to Wembley? 0:13:38.929 --> 0:13:41.690 And he's got two young kids and he's like, fucking absolutely. 0:13:41.690 --> 0:13:45.830 So yeah, men are in crisis about Oasis, I suppose. 0:13:47.570 --> 0:13:50.809 Well done Thomas. Um, yeah. Meg. How about how about you? 0:13:50.929 --> 0:13:55.309 Um, I missed the first wave. I think, like Thomas, 0:13:55.309 --> 0:13:59.270 I was slightly too young. I was also a woman, so. 0:13:59.300 --> 0:13:59.540 That. 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.410 Left me out of the main hype. I think back then, 0:14:03.410 --> 0:14:07.490 in the late 90s, it was like the divisions between 0:14:07.490 --> 0:14:11.809 pop and rock and what music women liked and men 0:14:11.809 --> 0:14:15.620 liked or were able to like were very, quite stark. Yeah, I. 0:14:15.620 --> 0:14:19.370 Mean, Poptimism feels like a reaction to that exact moment. Yeah. 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.610 Men singing about whatever was so important. Yes. And women 0:14:22.610 --> 0:14:23.240 are just like, it. 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:27.260 Actually wasn't until I was 15 years old that I 0:14:27.260 --> 0:14:30.710 had my first kind of like, oh, Oasis are this big. 0:14:30.710 --> 0:14:33.550 And it came, I was I was in a Hungry 0:14:33.550 --> 0:14:37.420 Jack's in regional New South Wales doing karaoke on a 0:14:37.420 --> 0:14:42.160 Friday night, and every man in the venue was singing Wonderwall. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:43.750 And I was like, I think I've heard this song, 0:14:43.750 --> 0:14:45.700 but I did not know that it was like that. 0:14:45.730 --> 0:14:49.360 Like everyone knew the words. It was a full sing along. 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.609 That was my first moment. But it's because, like, I 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:53.740 grew up in Spice Girls land, you know? Totally. And 0:14:53.740 --> 0:14:56.620 Spice Girls girls couldn't like Noel and Liam Gallagher. That's 0:14:56.620 --> 0:14:58.780 just not how it worked. Yeah. And so I was 0:14:58.810 --> 0:15:00.700 I then later got into it, of course, because then, 0:15:00.730 --> 0:15:03.250 you know, I started dating boys and they liked it. 0:15:03.250 --> 0:15:04.510 So it's the real. 0:15:04.510 --> 0:15:07.810 Montague Capulet story of our times, the Oasis Spice Girl. 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.150 But I mean, like, I think the weird thing is 0:15:10.150 --> 0:15:13.000 because it has been so long and because they famously 0:15:13.030 --> 0:15:15.730 fight and their fights are actually pretty funny and then, 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.910 you know, the whole like. And anyway, here's Wonderwall, meme 0:15:18.940 --> 0:15:21.220 like Oasis as a thing has become like kind of 0:15:21.250 --> 0:15:24.460 a punchline. But yeah, what's the story? Morning glory. And 0:15:24.460 --> 0:15:27.700 definitely maybe they're like fucking almost no skip albums like 0:15:27.730 --> 0:15:30.510 they are two really good records. The rest of their output, 0:15:30.510 --> 0:15:34.050 I think is like, you know, up for debate. But 94, 95, 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:35.820 they were on a heater and I can't wait to 0:15:35.850 --> 0:15:36.300 get back there. 0:15:36.330 --> 0:15:39.420 Yeah, I totally agree. I was flying back from Sydney 0:15:39.450 --> 0:15:41.729 last night and I thought, why don't I just play 0:15:41.730 --> 0:15:44.130 those two records? Their first two and I read the 0:15:44.130 --> 0:15:48.390 entire Oasis Wikipedia page and it's so fun because you know, 0:15:48.390 --> 0:15:51.330 that they fought and I guess, like, I didn't know 0:15:51.330 --> 0:15:54.360 every single tour, they basically went on for ten years. 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.490 One of them would, like, quit halfway through and just 0:15:56.490 --> 0:15:58.740 ruin everything. So there is a big question mark over. 0:15:58.770 --> 0:15:59.910 Boys are so emotional. 0:15:59.940 --> 0:16:00.660 Truly. 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.390 There is a big question mark over how many of 0:16:03.390 --> 0:16:06.150 these 14 dates like they will actually be able to. 0:16:06.180 --> 0:16:06.480 I mean, the. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:07.320 Idea of them getting to. 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.330 Australia, I don't know. I know even the. 0:16:09.330 --> 0:16:10.350 Flight, it's pretty. 0:16:10.380 --> 0:16:13.200 Slim. But um, Meg, I sort of had a similar moment, 0:16:13.230 --> 0:16:15.600 like I was a teenage boy and I did listen 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.910 to Oasis and I did like them, but I don't 0:16:17.910 --> 0:16:20.100 think I ever like I wasn't part of a kind 0:16:20.100 --> 0:16:22.680 of like, big group of, like, guys who loved rock. 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:24.510 So I listened to Oasis, but I didn't really talk 0:16:24.510 --> 0:16:26.190 to heaps of people, but that kind of music and 0:16:26.190 --> 0:16:29.270 I remember I might have been like 18 at a 0:16:29.270 --> 0:16:33.170 dive bar in Copenhagen on like my first Euro backpacking trip. 0:16:33.170 --> 0:16:35.840 And the song just came on and every single person 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.090 belted it. People got up on chairs and tables and 0:16:38.090 --> 0:16:40.609 started singing and I'm like, wow, that's nice. And I 0:16:40.610 --> 0:16:42.950 think when we talk on this show about the way 0:16:42.950 --> 0:16:45.050 that culture can bring people together and those kinds of 0:16:45.050 --> 0:16:49.730 memories and stuff like Wonderwall, from being a genuine, joyous 0:16:49.730 --> 0:16:53.690 song to becoming a meme to becoming a nostalgic hit, 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.390 to now everyone being excited to seeing them sing it 0:16:56.390 --> 0:16:59.780 and perform it. I was really lucky in 2022 when 0:16:59.810 --> 0:17:03.050 Liam did splendour, like he played Wonderwall and you know, 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.420 it was not the same thing, but it felt really special. 0:17:05.420 --> 0:17:08.840 And being in the auditorium covered in mud, the sign 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:10.880 had been changed to splendour in the mud and like 0:17:10.910 --> 0:17:14.450 seeing a song that I have played for 20 years 0:17:14.450 --> 0:17:17.750 of my life live, it was really magical. So I'm 0:17:17.750 --> 0:17:19.400 also just really happy it's happening. I'm really happy that 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.610 so many people will hopefully get to experience this, you know, 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.250 for the first time, or bring back some memories. They 0:17:25.250 --> 0:17:28.940 are playing in Cardiff and Wales on my birthday. Um, 0:17:28.940 --> 0:17:31.490 so if anyone wants to, you know, send me a 0:17:31.490 --> 0:17:34.640 birthday gift I'm willing and able to receive. Well, you've just. 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.220 Ruined the farewell gift that we had planned for you, so. 0:17:37.550 --> 0:17:40.280 Well, thanks so much, man. That's really generous of you. 0:17:40.310 --> 0:17:40.520 It's not. 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.280 It's actually tickets to see the Oasis tribute band, who 0:17:43.310 --> 0:17:44.990 we will be speaking to this week. Keep an eye 0:17:44.990 --> 0:17:46.130 out for the story coming soon. 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:47.840 It's Thomas's band. 0:17:47.869 --> 0:17:50.270 All right, let's talk about blink twice. 0:17:50.300 --> 0:17:52.070 We're going to my island for a few days. 0:17:52.100 --> 0:17:53.180 Do you guys want to come? 0:17:54.380 --> 0:17:55.490 This is crazy. 0:17:57.530 --> 0:17:59.390 Did we just jet off to a billionaire's island with 0:17:59.390 --> 0:18:02.060 a bunch of strangers? Oh, he's not a stranger. He's 0:18:02.060 --> 0:18:02.869 later king. 0:18:02.900 --> 0:18:07.400 This is the directorial debut from Zoe Kravitz. It's co-written 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:11.359 by Kravitz and E.T. Feigenbaum, who's a director and wrote 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.660 some episodes of the High Fidelity TV show that Zoe 0:18:14.660 --> 0:18:18.830 worked on. The film stars Naomi Ackie and Channing Tatum. 0:18:18.859 --> 0:18:22.730 The movie opens with the character of Frida, played by 0:18:22.730 --> 0:18:25.570 Naomi Ackie. She's working as a cocktail waitress at a 0:18:25.570 --> 0:18:30.250 gala event hosted by Slater King, a tech billionaire played 0:18:30.250 --> 0:18:35.080 by Channing Tatum. Seems very like Jack Dorsey, Twitter influenced vibes. 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:39.310 She seems infatuated with this guy. They hit it off 0:18:39.310 --> 0:18:42.340 and he decides to invite her to his private island 0:18:42.340 --> 0:18:46.180 for a fun, romantic getaway. And that's where most of 0:18:46.180 --> 0:18:49.600 this movie takes place. Channing Tatum's character and a group 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.990 of his male friends, played by quite an incredible list 0:18:52.990 --> 0:18:57.790 of actors from various different generations Christian Slater, Simon Rex, 0:18:57.790 --> 0:19:00.790 Haley Joel Osment. They spend the weekend partying with a 0:19:00.790 --> 0:19:05.140 bunch of women, including Adria Arjona and Alia Shawkat. Pretty soon, 0:19:05.140 --> 0:19:07.899 it becomes apparent that things on this island are not 0:19:07.900 --> 0:19:11.800 quite what they seem, and the movie morphs into more 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.050 of a thriller as these women, led by Ackie, try 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.720 to figure out what's really going on. I want to 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.060 have a brief chat with you guys before we get 0:19:19.060 --> 0:19:21.550 into spoiler territory, because I think it is a hard 0:19:21.550 --> 0:19:24.219 movie to discuss without going into detail, but let's do 0:19:24.220 --> 0:19:28.420 some top line stuff before we get there. Overall, I 0:19:28.420 --> 0:19:31.929 thought this movie is a perfect case study in style 0:19:31.930 --> 0:19:35.590 over any kind of real significant substance. I think the 0:19:35.590 --> 0:19:40.480 production design, the casting, the editing style, the needle drops 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.970 the way that Kravitz is like moving through the movie 0:19:42.970 --> 0:19:45.970 as a director is all extremely well done. It's technically 0:19:45.970 --> 0:19:48.790 very proficient. It's everything you'd want from a film that 0:19:48.790 --> 0:19:51.730 clearly thinks of itself as the love child of, like, 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.060 Promising Young Woman and Get Out, but I think because 0:19:55.060 --> 0:19:57.970 it feels similar to those movies, the fact that thematically 0:19:57.970 --> 0:20:00.879 it is so unlike them in the sense that I 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.600 think it's almost kind of thematically empty kind of is 0:20:04.630 --> 0:20:08.080 an extra knock against the film. I think the Get 0:20:08.109 --> 0:20:11.680 Out references in particular are so obvious. There's this repeated 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.950 use of cameras and taking photos, and the way that's 0:20:14.950 --> 0:20:17.020 used to jolt people out of their reveries, that it's 0:20:17.020 --> 0:20:18.939 like a one for one lift from Get Out just 0:20:18.940 --> 0:20:21.170 reminds you of what a very good version of this 0:20:21.170 --> 0:20:25.699 film could be. And sadly, I didn't really have a 0:20:25.700 --> 0:20:28.939 great time in this movie and walked away feeling ultimately 0:20:28.940 --> 0:20:31.970 kind of frustrated because of all the money and people 0:20:31.970 --> 0:20:34.190 and the premise that was on screen, and it just 0:20:34.190 --> 0:20:37.429 felt like it didn't really deliver. But I'm very interested 0:20:37.430 --> 0:20:39.770 to hear what you guys think. Oh, is this underselling it? 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.260 He literally told me he nearly walked out of the cinema. 0:20:43.100 --> 0:20:45.440 Well, I have my views. And then I have my 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:47.990 attempt to distill them into some kind of criticism. 0:20:48.020 --> 0:20:48.800 Just be your true self. 0:20:48.830 --> 0:20:52.190 Useful for people. Um, well, I will be more honest 0:20:52.190 --> 0:20:55.040 about why I really didn't like the movie in the 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.560 spoiler section, because I think so much of it has 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.020 to do with the ideas of the movie and what 0:21:00.020 --> 0:21:02.360 it's saying, not with like how the movie looks and 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.300 the performances and things like that. Meg, presumably you didn't 0:21:05.300 --> 0:21:06.080 walk out of the theater. 0:21:06.109 --> 0:21:07.610 I did not walk out of the cinema. 0:21:07.850 --> 0:21:11.989 Um, but I look, I see your points and I 0:21:11.990 --> 0:21:15.650 agree with most of them. Um, for me, I think 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.629 those stylistic elements held enough weight for it to be 0:21:19.630 --> 0:21:22.120 an entertaining film. I mean, as a directorial debut, that's 0:21:22.150 --> 0:21:25.630 actually really great from Zoe Kravitz. Like the actual sense 0:21:25.630 --> 0:21:28.810 of the style, the aesthetic, the sound design, there's this 0:21:28.810 --> 0:21:32.649 really like recurring theme of the champagne fizzing. Those those 0:21:32.650 --> 0:21:36.250 details are done really well. Um, the casting as well. 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.100 I mean, like Channing Tatum playing against type and using 0:21:39.100 --> 0:21:42.429 his like, weaponizing his good guy charm is actually really great. 0:21:42.460 --> 0:21:44.080 I mean, do I buy him as a tech titan? 0:21:44.109 --> 0:21:46.930 Not really. He's like far too jacked and good looking 0:21:46.930 --> 0:21:51.429 for that. Um, but the cast itself is so good. Like, 0:21:51.430 --> 0:21:54.190 Naomi Ackie does such a good job. Adria Arjona from 0:21:54.190 --> 0:21:58.000 hitman fame. Like she's killing it. The. There's such good 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.760 parts of it, I also agree. It doesn't really add 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:04.990 up to a whole. That's completely satisfying. I think the 0:22:04.990 --> 0:22:08.710 movie thinks it's a bit more thrilling than it is, 0:22:08.710 --> 0:22:11.740 just because it's signposts so many things so early on 0:22:11.740 --> 0:22:14.590 that like, you kind of spend the first hour or 0:22:14.590 --> 0:22:16.920 so just like essentially guessing what's going to happen. And 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:20.250 you probably can. Yeah. Which is pretty disappointing. And then 0:22:20.250 --> 0:22:22.679 I agree that there's kind of like the ideas that 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:24.989 wrestles with are so good and so rich. I mean, 0:22:25.020 --> 0:22:28.379 the idea of this island being trapped there is a 0:22:28.380 --> 0:22:30.119 thrilling one in itself. But then when you add the 0:22:30.150 --> 0:22:33.480 kind of Jeffrey Epstein overtones, that's a really rich area 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:36.270 to mine. I don't think it quite gets there because 0:22:36.270 --> 0:22:39.720 the characters involved are super underbaked. Like, I don't really 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.530 understand a lot of the deeper context or characterization between 0:22:43.530 --> 0:22:45.600 these people, so it's hard to respect the ideas that 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:47.850 they're conveying. But I mean, did I have a good 0:22:47.850 --> 0:22:49.800 time in the cinema? Yeah. Like, I mean, what are 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:52.620 the standards for judging this film by a social commentary 0:22:52.619 --> 0:22:53.640 or as a good time in the cinema? 0:22:53.670 --> 0:22:55.109 I think the difference between you and I in this 0:22:55.109 --> 0:22:57.179 movie is less about our interpretation of the film, and 0:22:57.180 --> 0:22:59.909 more just like our patience and tolerance threshold. 0:23:00.030 --> 0:23:00.629 Sure. I mean. 0:23:00.660 --> 0:23:02.580 I totally agree on the get out comp. Like it's 0:23:02.580 --> 0:23:05.760 really it's so overwhelming how much it wants to be. 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:09.210 Get out. Yeah. Um, but even like, you see these 0:23:09.210 --> 0:23:12.119 constant look overs to the staff who work on the island, 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:14.960 it's like there's a reason the staff were like that 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.480 on Get Out and there's not much here. Yeah, like 0:23:17.510 --> 0:23:19.220 it's quite distracting. Yeah. 0:23:19.250 --> 0:23:21.980 And there's another movie. I think that this movie is, uh, 0:23:21.980 --> 0:23:24.320 in the same sandbox in and in fact, is so 0:23:24.350 --> 0:23:26.300 eerily similar to I kind of I can kind of 0:23:26.330 --> 0:23:28.040 just don't understand why it exists, but we'll get to 0:23:28.070 --> 0:23:30.379 that in a second. Thomas, no idea what you think 0:23:30.380 --> 0:23:32.209 about this. I haven't spoken to you since you saw it. 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:34.070 What did you what did you make of blink twice? 0:23:34.100 --> 0:23:37.070 Uh, well, I guess firstly, the standard as agreed last 0:23:37.070 --> 0:23:39.740 week is Ticket to Paradise. So that is the film. 0:23:39.740 --> 0:23:42.230 That also island themed adventures. 0:23:42.260 --> 0:23:45.650 Yeah, absolutely. Less of a me too thriller. Um, yeah. Yeah. 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:50.030 I was unimpressed by this movie. Um, and I even think, like, 0:23:50.060 --> 0:23:52.280 you know what you just said, Osmond. And what's some 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:54.530 of the reviews are saying, like, you know, praising Zoe 0:23:54.530 --> 0:23:58.220 Kravitz style. She's obviously a debut director, and admittedly, it 0:23:58.220 --> 0:24:01.609 does look good, but I'm like, man, I reckon I 0:24:01.609 --> 0:24:03.350 could make a movie that looks pretty fucking good too. 0:24:03.380 --> 0:24:05.690 Like if given the tools and stuff, like it. 0:24:05.690 --> 0:24:06.440 Was the money. 0:24:06.470 --> 0:24:08.600 Yeah. Money. Like, okay, yes, she's got a good eye, 0:24:08.630 --> 0:24:11.899 but like, so do lots of people. And it looked good. 0:24:11.900 --> 0:24:14.600 There was a great location. The cast are all like 0:24:14.630 --> 0:24:17.750 talented and attractive. I just don't know if you're going 0:24:17.780 --> 0:24:20.600 to attempt a movie that's trying to say a lot 0:24:20.630 --> 0:24:23.780 of things and like tackle some pretty tricky areas. I 0:24:23.780 --> 0:24:26.900 don't know if it's enough. So that was like, you know, 0:24:26.930 --> 0:24:29.030 kind of annoyed me if anything, because I was like, oh, 0:24:29.150 --> 0:24:32.300 it does look good. But like, so what? Ultimately it 0:24:32.300 --> 0:24:34.280 not only like the get out thing, but, you know, 0:24:34.310 --> 0:24:37.550 we are in this era of the MeToo thriller we've 0:24:37.550 --> 0:24:40.220 had like Don't Worry Darling, which I also thought was probably, 0:24:40.250 --> 0:24:42.500 you know, on the mood board for her. 0:24:42.500 --> 0:24:44.179 And that's the movie I was talking about that I 0:24:44.180 --> 0:24:46.520 think this movie is so similar to. Yeah, yeah. 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:50.210 And it's just it's just like, I think the movie 0:24:50.210 --> 0:24:53.480 takes you into this, like environment where it's so obvious 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:56.600 that something creepy is happening. And because I think I 0:24:56.600 --> 0:24:59.119 was aware of all these films that have come before 0:24:59.150 --> 0:25:01.280 in such recent history, I was like, surely we're not 0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:03.470 going to end up in the same place that we 0:25:03.470 --> 0:25:05.990 have ended up previously. And, you know, lo and behold, 0:25:05.990 --> 0:25:08.810 we kind of do. And then in addition to all that, 0:25:08.810 --> 0:25:11.020 I thought Channing was really good. But I do think, 0:25:11.050 --> 0:25:14.950 you know, there was a slight element of like, my 0:25:14.950 --> 0:25:16.659 boyfriend is so hot. I can't wait to film him 0:25:16.660 --> 0:25:19.000 for ages. Um, yeah, but maybe that was just my 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:21.850 own take. But yeah, I don't know. Ultimately I had 0:25:21.850 --> 0:25:24.250 such a and we haven't mentioned this one either. Like, 0:25:24.250 --> 0:25:26.949 I had such a Saltburn experience again where I was. 0:25:26.980 --> 0:25:28.660 Like, that was the other one I've got in my notes, man. 0:25:28.660 --> 0:25:30.040 That's exactly it. I was like. 0:25:30.070 --> 0:25:33.400 You know, all the like, it's like the intelligent movie 0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:35.859 for dumb people. But like, you know, everyone's saying Saltburn 0:25:35.859 --> 0:25:38.800 is so great, man. It's crazy. It's such an incredible twist. 0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:41.620 And it says so many like, amazing things that makes 0:25:41.619 --> 0:25:42.879 you think. And then you get out of it and 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:44.770 you're like, it doesn't make me think about anything. You've 0:25:44.770 --> 0:25:46.510 just been fooled by the gimmicks. 0:25:47.020 --> 0:25:50.440 I would also say there's like, it's not just Saltburn, 0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:53.199 there's like Knives Out one with Edward Norton as a 0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:55.840 tech titan going into an island. It's like the menu. 0:25:55.869 --> 0:25:59.199 There's all these very recent films of like, eat the 0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:02.740 rich genre that just feels so recent and close to 0:26:02.770 --> 0:26:04.750 this that this almost feels derivative, even though it is 0:26:04.750 --> 0:26:07.540 original filmmaking. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, we say 0:26:07.540 --> 0:26:09.840 all the time we want movies like this that take 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:12.270 a real swing and have great premises and original stories, 0:26:12.270 --> 0:26:14.520 but like, it just doesn't feel as original as it should. 0:26:14.550 --> 0:26:14.969 Yeah, and. 0:26:14.970 --> 0:26:16.739 I think you made this point earlier, Meg. It's like 0:26:16.770 --> 0:26:19.980 for a movie that it considers itself a twisty thriller, 0:26:19.980 --> 0:26:24.390 there's barely any twists. It's pretty clear something's going on 0:26:24.390 --> 0:26:25.860 and you kind of figure it out. Maybe you don't 0:26:25.859 --> 0:26:28.889 know the exact specific nature of it, and then the 0:26:28.890 --> 0:26:32.460 reveal happens. Like, okay, that was obviously signposted. And then 0:26:32.460 --> 0:26:35.520 the movie progresses and progresses in that same sort of way. 0:26:35.730 --> 0:26:38.820 And I think Saltburn is the other exact comp where 0:26:38.820 --> 0:26:42.600 it's shiny. There's some good performances. There's some like memorable moments. 0:26:42.630 --> 0:26:45.000 There's some very iconic needle drops that people will like, 0:26:45.030 --> 0:26:48.270 really enjoy. But again, like, you know, with Saltburn did 0:26:48.270 --> 0:26:51.600 this to oh, here's the twist. It's like we knew that. 0:26:51.630 --> 0:26:53.879 You kind of seem to think that we're way dumber 0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:55.859 than this movie you've constructed is it's. 0:26:55.890 --> 0:26:58.379 And it's quite depressing, like seeing a lot of the 0:26:58.380 --> 0:27:01.710 response to the film, especially just on like, Twitter or 0:27:01.710 --> 0:27:05.550 Reddit or whatever. It's like the bar is so low. 0:27:05.580 --> 0:27:08.390 I know I don't read the Letterboxd reviews, I think. Like, 0:27:08.750 --> 0:27:10.370 I don't know what a letterbox has been taken over 0:27:10.369 --> 0:27:13.370 by like 15 year olds, but just people being like, whoa, 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:16.729 what a movie. And, you know, maybe one nice thing 0:27:16.760 --> 0:27:18.770 to say about this is that if there are like 0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:22.280 younger people who appreciate the style and the aesthetic of 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:26.060 the film more than the lack of the themes that 0:27:26.060 --> 0:27:27.830 seem to be bothering people like us and some of 0:27:27.830 --> 0:27:30.980 the underwriting of it. That's cool. Like, good on them 0:27:30.980 --> 0:27:33.409 for enjoying a movie, and maybe they'll discover some of 0:27:33.410 --> 0:27:36.889 these other films that that are the precursors to this. 0:27:36.890 --> 0:27:38.899 But saying that, like, people might watch a movie and 0:27:38.900 --> 0:27:42.080 then hopefully discover better movies is not much of a compliment. 0:27:42.080 --> 0:27:43.880 And I also reckon, like, worth adding to that list. 0:27:43.910 --> 0:27:46.490 You mentioned the menu, Meg, which I also think is 0:27:46.940 --> 0:27:50.389 this is really derivative, like, you know, um, they basically 0:27:50.390 --> 0:27:53.330 go to that like really Crazy Island and what's his name, the, uh, 0:27:53.330 --> 0:27:56.540 Ralph Fiennes plays, you know, the crazy rich, you know, 0:27:56.540 --> 0:27:59.240 he's a chef or whatever. But that is so similar. 0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:01.369 And also Triangle of Sadness, which I think does a 0:28:01.369 --> 0:28:03.230 much better job of like skewering this. 0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:05.590 Also an island. We got to get off islands, I think. 0:28:05.619 --> 0:28:05.949 I know it's. 0:28:05.950 --> 0:28:08.500 Like everyone's like rich people on an island. Let's absolutely 0:28:08.500 --> 0:28:10.990 milk it until it's boring. And here it is. We arrived. 0:28:11.650 --> 0:28:13.659 Uh, should we go into spoiler territory? I think we 0:28:13.660 --> 0:28:15.700 have to. So if you are going to watch the 0:28:15.700 --> 0:28:18.919 movie and you haven't seen it, skip the next 5 0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:23.140 to 7 minutes of this podcast. So basically, the reveal 0:28:23.140 --> 0:28:25.959 is that the women on this island who think they're 0:28:25.960 --> 0:28:29.440 having a really great time are, in fact, being like, 0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:35.290 drugged and sexually assaulted quite, like intensely, repeatedly, every single 0:28:35.290 --> 0:28:39.040 night by the men. They take this perfume or they 0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:43.480 spray this perfume called Desdemona, and it makes them forget 0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:46.090 the trauma that they've had. And this has been going 0:28:46.090 --> 0:28:49.360 on potentially for years. We find out that Naomi Ackie's 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:51.820 character has actually been on this island before. It's not 0:28:51.820 --> 0:28:55.690 her first time, and she discovers, through the help of 0:28:55.690 --> 0:28:59.620 the staff who work there, that there is this snake venom, 0:28:59.620 --> 0:29:03.180 that if you drink or if you put in tequila shots, 0:29:03.180 --> 0:29:07.229 you will overpower the perfume. So this is. It's like 0:29:07.230 --> 0:29:09.150 a weird, like, magical thing going on. 0:29:09.180 --> 0:29:11.070 Plot mechanics. Man. Oh my God. 0:29:11.100 --> 0:29:14.580 Two competing like magical elixirs is very, very odd. And 0:29:14.580 --> 0:29:16.890 so she she does realize. And she has these horrific 0:29:16.890 --> 0:29:20.880 flashbacks to the violence being done on her. And then, 0:29:20.910 --> 0:29:26.340 you know, the movie's most obvious theme or like, kind 0:29:26.340 --> 0:29:29.760 of idea it's got is that women should band together 0:29:29.760 --> 0:29:35.640 and work together to kill terrible men, which is what happens. 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:38.640 And then the bit that I guess, like was the 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.670 most surprising twist is the very, very, very end of 0:29:41.670 --> 0:29:44.940 the movie where we're back in the room where the 0:29:44.940 --> 0:29:47.670 gala was originally held and you think, oh wow, like 0:29:47.700 --> 0:29:50.370 Channing Tatum's character survived, what's going on here? And then 0:29:50.370 --> 0:29:53.520 the reveal is that it's Naomi Ackie's character, Frida, who 0:29:53.520 --> 0:29:56.430 is the CEO of this tech company. And Channing Tatum 0:29:56.430 --> 0:30:02.090 is kind of her lobotomized boyfriend husband. and the idea 0:30:02.090 --> 0:30:05.780 there being kill all the bad men, but the ringleader 0:30:05.780 --> 0:30:08.870 just marry him and keep him as your boy toy. 0:30:08.900 --> 0:30:11.750 Because that is a cool thing to do. I think, 0:30:11.780 --> 0:30:14.060 like when all of that was going on, this is 0:30:14.060 --> 0:30:17.840 where my levels of frustration started to grow. Because what 0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:20.150 is the idea in the movie? Drugging and assaulting women 0:30:20.150 --> 0:30:25.910 is bad. Sure. Obviously no disagreement from anyone. They're not 0:30:25.910 --> 0:30:30.170 a particularly, like, compelling or interesting idea for a film, 0:30:30.170 --> 0:30:33.110 I would say, and especially not one that doesn't go 0:30:33.110 --> 0:30:36.410 anywhere beyond that. Now that we're in that sort of 0:30:36.440 --> 0:30:38.990 spoiler space, what did you guys think of all the 0:30:38.990 --> 0:30:41.780 reveals and do you think, am I missing something? Is 0:30:41.780 --> 0:30:45.740 there a point being made about the nature of the patriarchy, 0:30:45.770 --> 0:30:48.170 the way it should be dealt with that does exist 0:30:48.170 --> 0:30:49.459 beyond what's on the surface? 0:30:49.460 --> 0:30:50.000 I think the. 0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:53.900 Film would like to think it has a big theme 0:30:53.900 --> 0:30:58.760 about cancel culture, because Channing Tatum's character had been found 0:30:58.760 --> 0:31:01.280 out for doing something before, though we don't really know 0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:04.910 what was revealed previously, and the film starts with him 0:31:04.910 --> 0:31:07.730 having the kind of, you know, Instagram apology. He's having 0:31:07.730 --> 0:31:10.820 an interview about it, and I suppose it's playing with 0:31:10.820 --> 0:31:14.060 ideas of do these men change? What will a culture 0:31:14.060 --> 0:31:18.650 forgive those kind of things? But without that deeper context 0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:21.200 of what he did or even like, I mean, he 0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:24.890 was absolved in this interview with this person. He was 0:31:24.890 --> 0:31:28.010 like being exalted for what a new man he is. 0:31:28.010 --> 0:31:29.900 But then by the end of the film, Channing Tatum's 0:31:29.900 --> 0:31:32.930 doing this really cringeworthy speech about how he can just 0:31:32.930 --> 0:31:35.000 say sorry a million times and it's just not worth it. 0:31:35.030 --> 0:31:37.790 It's like, what? Weren't you? Didn't this work? I don't 0:31:37.790 --> 0:31:40.100 understand what's going on. I mean, even that dialogue was 0:31:40.100 --> 0:31:45.290 so cringeworthy. There's this terrible speech about there's this younger 0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.170 guy on the island who supposedly did nothing to help them, 0:31:48.170 --> 0:31:49.760 even though he has a black eye. So I have 0:31:49.760 --> 0:31:51.290 to assume he stepped in at one point, right? 0:31:51.320 --> 0:31:53.690 It actually gets kind of confusing as to who on 0:31:53.690 --> 0:31:56.240 the island is, at which stage of which poison, like 0:31:56.270 --> 0:31:59.290 who's been perfumed and who's been snake venom. 0:31:59.350 --> 0:32:00.340 Yeah, like. 0:32:00.370 --> 0:32:02.200 I think maybe that guy wasn't aware of what was 0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:02.740 going on. 0:32:02.770 --> 0:32:04.240 No, I think he was. 0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:05.860 But then on that final night. 0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:06.459 I thought he was. 0:32:06.460 --> 0:32:07.900 Being assaulted too. Hence. 0:32:07.930 --> 0:32:08.740 Yeah, that was my. 0:32:09.100 --> 0:32:09.490 Yeah. 0:32:09.910 --> 0:32:10.480 I'm glad. 0:32:10.750 --> 0:32:12.940 That's possible. I don't know. Sure. Yeah. 0:32:12.970 --> 0:32:14.680 I'm not sure they know. I think they lost track. 0:32:14.680 --> 0:32:15.520 Of what was going on. 0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:19.240 I feel like with a lot of these MeToo movies, 0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:22.960 there's these very big themes that creators are taking on 0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:26.590 in time with the culture. But by the time the 0:32:26.590 --> 0:32:30.220 films come out or even they're filming, discourse has moved 0:32:30.220 --> 0:32:33.100 and then plots get changed and it just feels stale 0:32:33.100 --> 0:32:35.140 in this weird way, or it feels like it's pandering 0:32:35.170 --> 0:32:37.630 to a moment that's passed. I think there's a lot 0:32:37.630 --> 0:32:39.400 of that in this movie, and it's something that happened 0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:41.350 with promising young women as well. I mean, if that 0:32:41.350 --> 0:32:43.360 had that film had come out even a year prior, 0:32:43.390 --> 0:32:46.360 it would have had a massive impact. I mean, another 0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:50.320 film with a confusing final act twist. Um, but yeah, 0:32:50.500 --> 0:32:52.990 it's hard to glean an overall message from this other 0:32:52.990 --> 0:32:58.740 than women should stick Together. Um, but yeah, it's not 0:32:58.740 --> 0:32:59.220 that inspiring. 0:32:59.250 --> 0:33:00.870 You were talking about the Spice Girls, you know, a 0:33:00.870 --> 0:33:01.890 while ago, but that's, you know. 0:33:01.980 --> 0:33:02.310 Yeah, but that. 0:33:02.310 --> 0:33:02.940 Was the 90s. 0:33:02.970 --> 0:33:03.900 So. Yeah. Yeah. 0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:05.070 Um, how about you, Thomas? 0:33:05.100 --> 0:33:07.979 Yeah, I think kind of like we said before, it 0:33:07.980 --> 0:33:11.880 just felt like the whole time you were being prepared 0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:15.150 for a big twist. And then it went. And like, 0:33:15.180 --> 0:33:16.620 even in my head, I think I was like, please 0:33:16.620 --> 0:33:20.160 don't be the lowest common denominator twist that we've seen 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:22.650 in this recent rash of films exactly like this. And 0:33:22.650 --> 0:33:25.650 then it was and that made it even like that, 0:33:25.650 --> 0:33:28.440 made it so much more disappointing. Like I just yeah, 0:33:28.470 --> 0:33:30.630 I kind of in that, you know. Yeah. The really 0:33:30.630 --> 0:33:33.000 obvious message is that these things are awful and men 0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:35.970 can be really, really bad. But like, I just don't 0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:38.820 know what else you're supposed to take away from the 0:33:38.820 --> 0:33:41.190 the movie. Like the reveal that all of these men 0:33:41.220 --> 0:33:43.890 who are all quite rich and powerful are doing, like, 0:33:43.920 --> 0:33:46.110 really heinous things at night, but it just didn't. There 0:33:46.110 --> 0:33:49.020 was no like, thesis beyond that for the movie. And 0:33:49.020 --> 0:33:52.080 so when that's all you get, um, it's hard to 0:33:52.110 --> 0:33:55.880 think that this was a smart idea, and I actually 0:33:55.910 --> 0:33:57.740 kind of do think the cancel culture thing was perhaps 0:33:57.740 --> 0:33:59.960 the most interesting part of it. Like, even though that 0:33:59.960 --> 0:34:03.170 speech was a bit cringeworthy, the whole idea of like, 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:05.300 you know, a powerful man doing something bad. We don't 0:34:05.300 --> 0:34:08.000 know what it was. But then, you know, getting public 0:34:08.000 --> 0:34:10.520 forgiveness and but really, you can't forgive. You can only forget, 0:34:10.550 --> 0:34:12.380 like there was, there was like a kernel of something 0:34:12.380 --> 0:34:14.900 interesting there, but instead they ended up just going for like, 0:34:14.900 --> 0:34:17.750 let's have heaps of, like, crazy drums and people running 0:34:17.750 --> 0:34:20.089 around and there'll be a big reveal and, you know, 0:34:20.120 --> 0:34:22.460 like it's just abandoned what may have been interesting and 0:34:22.460 --> 0:34:24.530 instead went back to, I guess, what is kind of 0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:27.500 become a, you know, paint by numbers for this genre 0:34:27.500 --> 0:34:28.910 that we're living in, which is that, you know, the 0:34:28.910 --> 0:34:32.240 big reveal is all these men are awful. And, you know, like, 0:34:32.270 --> 0:34:36.710 women should be terrified, which. Yeah, again, interesting idea, but 0:34:36.710 --> 0:34:38.870 executed in a way that makes it just feel a 0:34:38.870 --> 0:34:40.490 bit like, oh God, here we go again. 0:34:40.520 --> 0:34:42.200 It's the same way that I mean, that's how I 0:34:42.200 --> 0:34:45.770 felt about Don't Worry Darling as well. And spoilers, I guess. But, 0:34:45.800 --> 0:34:48.050 you know, if that film had gone harder on why 0:34:48.050 --> 0:34:50.000 the men are doing that or the culture that led 0:34:50.030 --> 0:34:52.840 up to it. Those kind of like Andrew Tate figures. 0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:54.820 That would have been a more interesting movie, but it 0:34:54.820 --> 0:34:56.890 just feels like they're kind of pulling their punches in 0:34:56.920 --> 0:34:59.680 that space and just opting for these like very set 0:34:59.710 --> 0:35:02.620 set and forget thrills. It's like, I think we should 0:35:02.620 --> 0:35:04.419 expect more from films like this at this stage. 0:35:04.450 --> 0:35:05.500 And that's why I don't know if either of you, 0:35:05.590 --> 0:35:08.020 either of you guys seen the Royal Hotel? The Julia 0:35:08.050 --> 0:35:09.820 Garner film filmed in Australia? 0:35:09.850 --> 0:35:10.779 I have, yeah, like. 0:35:10.810 --> 0:35:14.110 That to me is so basically like, you know, it's 0:35:14.110 --> 0:35:17.049 these two young like backpackers, I think. What are they, 0:35:17.050 --> 0:35:18.850 American or English? And they go to work in like 0:35:18.880 --> 0:35:22.779 an outback pub, kind of like, um, you know, in 0:35:22.780 --> 0:35:25.810 the middle of nowhere. Very rare for anyone to rock up. 0:35:25.810 --> 0:35:27.970 That's not, you know, like a working part of the community. 0:35:27.969 --> 0:35:30.819 And it kind of instead of there's no like kind 0:35:30.820 --> 0:35:33.879 of fantastical elements of snake venom and poisons and perfumes 0:35:33.880 --> 0:35:36.430 and stuff, but it's just the whole thing, like ratchets 0:35:36.430 --> 0:35:39.640 up this tension. You know, lots of men like hot 0:35:39.670 --> 0:35:42.969 blooded men who were, like, drinking and have no interaction 0:35:42.969 --> 0:35:44.830 with women and don't know how to act. And but 0:35:44.860 --> 0:35:46.839 like the way it kind of treats, you know, the 0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:49.270 men who appear to be like, kind of nice guys 0:35:49.270 --> 0:35:51.810 and then their roles shift, and it's all grounded in 0:35:51.810 --> 0:35:54.810 such a reality that makes it way more terrifying, because 0:35:54.810 --> 0:35:57.390 it's like men that you know and see at pubs 0:35:57.390 --> 0:35:59.910 and stuff, and I feel like that tackled the exact 0:35:59.910 --> 0:36:02.759 same areas in a way that was so much more affecting. 0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:05.189 And at the end there's no real big twist or anything. 0:36:05.190 --> 0:36:08.100 It's just a survival story, really. But at the end 0:36:08.130 --> 0:36:10.530 you walk away, I guess, like, well, I walked away 0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:13.230 thinking so much more about, like, you know, in air 0:36:13.260 --> 0:36:15.689 quotes like toxic masculinity and all of that stuff because 0:36:15.690 --> 0:36:17.339 it was handled in a way that was so much 0:36:17.340 --> 0:36:20.310 real and raw as opposed to like big flip reveal 0:36:20.310 --> 0:36:22.170 and like, oh, this is what's happening at night. And 0:36:22.170 --> 0:36:24.660 these people are all complete, like double characters and stuff. 0:36:24.780 --> 0:36:26.549 Mm. Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned that. So that was 0:36:26.550 --> 0:36:29.670 directed by Kitty green, who's an Australian director. And her 0:36:29.670 --> 0:36:32.730 movie before that was The Assistant, which came out in 2019, 0:36:32.730 --> 0:36:36.240 which I think is maybe my favorite of the films 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:38.580 in what we could call the post-metoo genre. I mean, 0:36:38.580 --> 0:36:41.400 this one in particular, it's set in a production office 0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:44.100 about a young assistant, and it is very much like 0:36:44.100 --> 0:36:47.310 a take on the Weinstein sort of dynamic. It's a 0:36:47.310 --> 0:36:50.880 really extraordinary film that is worth watching. And I guess 0:36:50.910 --> 0:36:52.470 like the timing has to do with this as well. 0:36:52.500 --> 0:36:55.080 I mean, I think the assistant still holds up right now, 0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:59.310 but Kravitz started writing blink Twice under the working title 0:36:59.310 --> 0:37:03.150 of Pussy Island back in 2017. So we're right. Like, 0:37:03.180 --> 0:37:06.600 post the Trump election in the middle of the Weinstein stuff. 0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:09.780 The Epstein stuff is happening. And perhaps if the movie 0:37:09.780 --> 0:37:13.230 had come out in 2017, we might have a different view. 0:37:13.230 --> 0:37:15.210 But also the movie didn't come out in 2017. The 0:37:15.210 --> 0:37:18.270 movie was in development for many, many, many years. So 0:37:18.300 --> 0:37:20.220 it's not really an excuse to not be good. But 0:37:20.219 --> 0:37:21.930 there are there are like, I think there are a 0:37:21.960 --> 0:37:24.330 few films in this space that tackle these things well. 0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:27.810 And you mentioned one, Thomas. I mentioned one, there's two 0:37:27.840 --> 0:37:30.630 more I wanted to to, to shout out women talking, 0:37:30.630 --> 0:37:32.460 which came out, I think, either last year or the 0:37:32.460 --> 0:37:36.000 year before. Um, very, very interesting. Like kind of basically 0:37:36.000 --> 0:37:41.580 interior chamber drama about women experiencing horrific things happening to 0:37:41.580 --> 0:37:44.910 them and what that kind of using that as a 0:37:44.910 --> 0:37:48.260 frame to discuss power relationships and gender dynamics in society. 0:37:48.260 --> 0:37:51.800 And then in terms of both like conversations around assault 0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:55.820 and cancel culture, to like Cate Blanchett, like that movie. 0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:58.460 Maybe it's hard to compare blink twice to it, because 0:37:58.460 --> 0:38:01.940 that is by an experienced director and an experienced actress. 0:38:01.969 --> 0:38:06.440 It is so complicated and sharp and nuanced and fascinating 0:38:06.440 --> 0:38:09.470 and makes you think days, weeks, months, years after you've 0:38:09.469 --> 0:38:11.360 watched the movie. So the good news is that there 0:38:11.360 --> 0:38:15.050 are like really interesting films tackling this stuff. Blink twice 0:38:15.080 --> 0:38:16.489 is just not in that category. 0:38:16.520 --> 0:38:17.210 I think the difference. 0:38:17.210 --> 0:38:19.549 With those films are like, Tara is also a film 0:38:19.550 --> 0:38:24.080 about cancel culture. Yeah. But it's grounded in character and plot. 0:38:24.080 --> 0:38:26.420 And so you sit with this person and their ideas 0:38:26.420 --> 0:38:28.790 and their world, and you come to an understanding of it. 0:38:28.790 --> 0:38:31.460 And maybe that forms one perspective. Maybe it's challenged to 0:38:31.460 --> 0:38:33.650 the next scene. This one is more interested in kind 0:38:33.650 --> 0:38:36.500 of the buzzwords. Yeah. And like, I mean, really, what 0:38:36.500 --> 0:38:39.560 do we know about Jack's character? He's got some vague 0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:42.890 childhood trauma. Like, I'm so sick of that storyline. Yeah. 0:38:42.920 --> 0:38:44.620 We should really know more than that. If we're going 0:38:44.650 --> 0:38:47.440 to have a proper critique of these men and why 0:38:47.440 --> 0:38:50.050 they do that. I think there was like another kernel 0:38:50.050 --> 0:38:53.739 of something more interesting with the Geena Davis character, where 0:38:53.739 --> 0:38:58.900 she has this snake venom potion and remembers what's going 0:38:58.900 --> 0:39:01.210 on but doesn't want to, and there's this altercation where 0:39:01.210 --> 0:39:04.750 she's like, I didn't want to remember. And then it's 0:39:04.750 --> 0:39:06.190 a fight between her and the other woman. And like, 0:39:06.219 --> 0:39:09.430 that's interesting casting because Geena Davis is obviously like Thelma 0:39:09.430 --> 0:39:13.089 and Louise icon like feminist film women sticking together. There's 0:39:13.090 --> 0:39:16.180 a lot of loaded casting in that. But when it's 0:39:16.180 --> 0:39:19.330 reduced to just one scene and like one throwaway thing, 0:39:19.330 --> 0:39:21.760 when it could have been this interesting dialogue about a 0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:25.540 genuine rift that happened between women of different generations during MeToo, 0:39:25.540 --> 0:39:27.940 where it's like all the women saying it's easier to 0:39:27.969 --> 0:39:29.529 just like, move on from these things. Why do you 0:39:29.530 --> 0:39:31.900 have to dig it all up? And younger women wanting 0:39:31.930 --> 0:39:34.930 to remember and fight for it and like, avenge what 0:39:34.930 --> 0:39:36.880 has happened? Like, that's an interesting idea too. But it 0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:38.890 just played for one scene, like. 0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:40.600 Yeah, it just seems like we need something there to 0:39:40.630 --> 0:39:43.590 show that women can also be complicit in these things. Yeah, 0:39:43.620 --> 0:39:45.660 I think you're right, I think. And I wonder whether 0:39:45.690 --> 0:39:47.820 some there is more to this movie that that we 0:39:47.820 --> 0:39:50.370 just don't get to see. And it's changed its name. 0:39:50.370 --> 0:39:53.580 It's been in quite a long production cycle. There's been 0:39:53.580 --> 0:39:57.330 all sorts of like stories about complications around release. Geena 0:39:57.330 --> 0:40:00.660 Davis is a very well known, very successful, very talented actress. 0:40:00.690 --> 0:40:02.940 The idea of her signing on for a movie where 0:40:02.940 --> 0:40:05.700 she essentially has one very brief scene where she says 0:40:05.700 --> 0:40:09.210 stuff before being killed seems unlikely to me. I wonder 0:40:09.210 --> 0:40:11.370 whether there are maybe some bits and pieces to this 0:40:11.370 --> 0:40:13.770 film that are on the cutting room floor that might 0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:17.970 have made it make more sense. But that's just entirely speculation. 0:40:18.090 --> 0:40:21.390 Yeah, I get the feeling there was some studio fingerprints 0:40:21.390 --> 0:40:24.930 on this. You've got, like, you know, a first time director, 0:40:24.930 --> 0:40:27.630 even though she's a famous, like, I wonder what the 0:40:27.630 --> 0:40:30.390 power dynamic there was like, if, you know, the studio 0:40:30.390 --> 0:40:31.859 is saying, like, we need to change this, we need 0:40:31.890 --> 0:40:34.230 to change that. She probably feels like she didn't have 0:40:34.230 --> 0:40:36.600 much of a choice, and that was definitely something. I 0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:39.299 walked away thinking, like, I wonder if there is a 0:40:39.300 --> 0:40:42.480 director's cut version of this that looks slightly different. Um, 0:40:42.480 --> 0:40:44.940 but yeah, like there were some parts I enjoyed. It's 0:40:44.940 --> 0:40:47.670 always good to see someone vaping on screen. Um, and 0:40:48.360 --> 0:40:51.030 Channing was hitting that jewel pretty hard. And also, like 0:40:51.060 --> 0:40:53.219 I must say, even though I knew, like, where it 0:40:53.219 --> 0:40:55.620 was going and stuff, I did have the conversation with 0:40:55.620 --> 0:40:56.820 my wife. I watched it and I was like, I 0:40:56.820 --> 0:40:59.850 wonder how long obviously before I knew the really horrific stuff. 0:40:59.850 --> 0:41:01.560 And I was like, how long could I really, like, 0:41:01.590 --> 0:41:04.740 enjoy this island? Like, because the day times looked pretty sick. 0:41:04.770 --> 0:41:07.620 Like they were by the pool. There's good music on. 0:41:07.620 --> 0:41:10.530 Everyone's doing like MDMA and stuff. Obviously it all takes 0:41:10.530 --> 0:41:13.109 a horrific turn, but how long could you go before 0:41:13.110 --> 0:41:15.060 you're like, am I partying too many days in a 0:41:15.060 --> 0:41:15.540 row now? 0:41:15.570 --> 0:41:16.950 I know, I mean, like, how much can you just 0:41:16.950 --> 0:41:18.810 be in a pool? Like, you know that it's just 0:41:18.810 --> 0:41:21.240 there's a time limit to that. The last thing I 0:41:21.239 --> 0:41:22.440 want to say, and I don't want to do a 0:41:22.440 --> 0:41:25.859 whole big, boring, nepo baby thing, but I think Zoe 0:41:25.860 --> 0:41:29.670 Kravitz is an accomplished actress. But, you know, there's obviously 0:41:29.670 --> 0:41:32.430 helping hands in this industry the way that she's been 0:41:32.430 --> 0:41:34.050 able to be an accomplished actress, the way that she's 0:41:34.050 --> 0:41:36.330 been able to make a movie that costs $20 million, 0:41:36.330 --> 0:41:40.000 I think stems from her background in the lucky experiences 0:41:40.000 --> 0:41:42.069 she's had in life, and also it gives her a 0:41:42.070 --> 0:41:45.490 very particular sense of what issues are when it comes 0:41:45.489 --> 0:41:47.380 to women. I think that's why we sort of end 0:41:47.410 --> 0:41:50.590 on that girlboss note of like, I'm in charge now 0:41:50.620 --> 0:41:54.340 sort of thing, and that's not her fault. On a 0:41:54.340 --> 0:41:58.000 personal level, but on a structural level, the budget for 0:41:58.000 --> 0:42:00.430 the assistant, which, like I said, I think is one 0:42:00.430 --> 0:42:03.040 of the best movies to tackle this stuff was a 0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:07.690 $1.7 million, right? There's Julia Garner, Matthew Macfadyen. It has 0:42:07.690 --> 0:42:10.690 a really good cast, and it's a really interesting give. 0:42:10.690 --> 0:42:14.330 People like Kitty green, give them 20 lots of $1 0:42:14.330 --> 0:42:16.629 million to make movies like this. And I think that's 0:42:16.630 --> 0:42:19.150 also why I started to get so frustrated. It's like 0:42:19.180 --> 0:42:21.549 there are people who think they've got interesting things to 0:42:21.550 --> 0:42:24.459 say who maybe don't, but they are afforded enormous amounts 0:42:24.460 --> 0:42:26.770 of opportunities to do so. And then there are other 0:42:26.770 --> 0:42:29.740 really amazing directors and writers who are trying their best 0:42:29.739 --> 0:42:32.260 and making amazing stuff that barely anyone has ever heard of. 0:42:32.260 --> 0:42:34.720 And that's not Zoe Kravitz fault or Channing Tatum fault. 0:42:34.719 --> 0:42:37.140 That's just the way that Hollywood and the world work, 0:42:37.140 --> 0:42:39.239 but I thought it was worth pointing out. 0:42:39.270 --> 0:42:41.219 It's like the drop versus Mamma mia! 0:42:42.570 --> 0:42:45.540 We have to cut that bit. We're not cutting that bit. 0:42:54.719 --> 0:42:55.830 Meg, are. 0:42:55.830 --> 0:42:57.990 You up to season three of industry yet? 0:42:58.020 --> 0:43:01.109 Let me tell you, I am not. But I can't 0:43:01.110 --> 0:43:02.310 wait to hear your takes. 0:43:02.340 --> 0:43:04.920 I appreciate that you have indulged us the last few 0:43:04.920 --> 0:43:06.240 weeks as we have done this. 0:43:06.239 --> 0:43:08.100 I love it. It would be a good introduction when 0:43:08.100 --> 0:43:08.940 I finally get there. 0:43:08.969 --> 0:43:12.660 I like had an out of body experience when I 0:43:12.660 --> 0:43:15.960 read the episode description on binge for this. It was 0:43:15.960 --> 0:43:21.960 something like Harper, Yasmin and Robert travel to Switzerland to 0:43:21.989 --> 0:43:25.830 take part in a high stakes climate economic summit. And like, 0:43:26.070 --> 0:43:30.180 I was like, Holy shit, these guys are doing the 0:43:30.180 --> 0:43:33.270 thing that succession did so well. And I think probably 0:43:33.270 --> 0:43:35.790 at this point, the succession comparisons are getting a little 0:43:35.820 --> 0:43:39.239 bit tired, but it's clear the two guys, Mickey and Conrad, 0:43:39.270 --> 0:43:42.450 who wrote this show, did their homework. They watched succession. 0:43:42.450 --> 0:43:46.319 They looked at what made that show work and deconstructed 0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:48.360 it and have taken this in a similar direction, which 0:43:48.360 --> 0:43:51.390 is like, we've got these characters and I think unlike succession, 0:43:51.390 --> 0:43:55.050 we've got sort of more fun, more silly, more sometimes 0:43:55.050 --> 0:43:59.340 a little bit cartoonish skins, kinds of characters. What if 0:43:59.340 --> 0:44:02.640 we just take them, put them in an entirely different environment, 0:44:02.640 --> 0:44:05.880 make them interact with the people they don't normally interact with, 0:44:05.910 --> 0:44:08.670 throw wacky things in their direction, and have a couple 0:44:08.700 --> 0:44:12.180 of obligatory shots of PJs. Isn't that going to be 0:44:12.180 --> 0:44:15.060 a sick episode? And it was, wasn't it, Thomas? 0:44:15.090 --> 0:44:15.540 It really. 0:44:15.540 --> 0:44:18.360 Was. I was kind of like, you know, quietly disappointed 0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:21.420 not to see Alexander Skarsgard, like, descending. 0:44:21.450 --> 0:44:24.480 There was like another Norwegian sort of guy who came in. 0:44:24.630 --> 0:44:26.730 There was a there was a Nordic energy, not quite. 0:44:26.730 --> 0:44:27.569 As like, are there any like. 0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:29.489 Big name cameos in the show yet? If they're really 0:44:29.489 --> 0:44:30.690 channeling succession? 0:44:30.690 --> 0:44:33.230 I think that's one thing we are kind of missing. 0:44:33.260 --> 0:44:36.200 Yeah, yeah. No, they don't really do that. Um, but, yeah, 0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:39.380 it was an incredible episode. Uh, you know, I saw 0:44:39.380 --> 0:44:41.630 somewhere that one of the critics wrote that, you know, 0:44:41.660 --> 0:44:44.090 this is a show that is less interested in financial 0:44:44.090 --> 0:44:47.660 deals and is now just about each character's pathologies. And 0:44:47.660 --> 0:44:49.880 that is so true, which is also something you could 0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:53.240 apply to succession in the later seasons. But just this 0:44:53.239 --> 0:44:55.819 is such a great character study now of these, you know, 0:44:55.880 --> 0:44:58.460 kind of people who are circling each other and no 0:44:58.460 --> 0:45:00.740 one is able to get out of their own way 0:45:00.739 --> 0:45:03.560 and their own neuroses, but they're also desperate to take 0:45:03.560 --> 0:45:06.170 down the people who they claim to be close to. 0:45:06.200 --> 0:45:08.299 And in the next scene, they will be supporting those people. Like, 0:45:08.330 --> 0:45:12.680 it's just such a great kind of character analysis of people. Um, 0:45:12.710 --> 0:45:14.930 obviously amazing to be back on a private jet. Um, 0:45:14.930 --> 0:45:16.610 I actually do think it's been, I guess in terms 0:45:16.610 --> 0:45:19.400 of big name cameos, Kit Harington being added to this 0:45:19.400 --> 0:45:23.030 season as Jon Snow, you know, in the world of 0:45:23.030 --> 0:45:23.630 Jon Snow. 0:45:23.660 --> 0:45:24.319 Whoa. 0:45:24.710 --> 0:45:26.120 Whoa, Jon Snow. 0:45:26.150 --> 0:45:28.100 It's super out of context. But no, he's actually been 0:45:28.100 --> 0:45:30.049 a great addition. Um, you know, just to kind of 0:45:30.070 --> 0:45:34.660 like like, like be a cat amongst the pigeons. Um, 0:45:34.660 --> 0:45:37.420 but I just thought this episode was amazing. And also 0:45:37.420 --> 0:45:39.250 one of the like, this is what's so great about 0:45:39.250 --> 0:45:41.920 industry and also succession. But like it is, this was 0:45:41.920 --> 0:45:44.440 the funniest episode of industry I reckon I've seen in 0:45:44.440 --> 0:45:46.810 a long time because they're going to a climate change, 0:45:46.840 --> 0:45:50.500 you know, like I guess conference to try and sell 0:45:50.530 --> 0:45:53.440 green energy ideas and you know, there's all these great 0:45:53.469 --> 0:45:55.629 like kind of like little just one liners about how 0:45:55.630 --> 0:45:57.850 it's an unnaturally warm winter. So there's no snow. And 0:45:57.850 --> 0:46:00.310 Eric's really disappointed about that. So good. And you know 0:46:00.340 --> 0:46:03.100 another big investor is like, do I care if Venice 0:46:03.130 --> 0:46:06.040 is underwater by 2075? It's a shithole in the summer. 0:46:06.070 --> 0:46:08.290 Like it's just, you know, like these awful people saying 0:46:08.290 --> 0:46:10.390 awful things. And that's what we watch TV for. 0:46:10.420 --> 0:46:12.040 And, you know, the other bit and this is like 0:46:12.070 --> 0:46:14.440 extremely just like specific to me. So they make a 0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:16.900 reference that the meeting they're going to is a cop meeting, 0:46:16.900 --> 0:46:19.660 which is the conference of parties to the United Nations 0:46:19.660 --> 0:46:22.660 Framework for the Convention on Climate Change, which are those 0:46:22.660 --> 0:46:25.390 big meetings where they discuss treaties and whatever. I actually 0:46:25.390 --> 0:46:29.670 attended one in a 2019, uh, Copenhagen. And in fact, 0:46:29.670 --> 0:46:32.340 it was on that trip that I was in a 0:46:32.340 --> 0:46:35.339 bar in Copenhagen. We all sang Wonderwall. Um, so I've 0:46:35.340 --> 0:46:37.500 been to these things and, you know, they, they they 0:46:37.500 --> 0:46:40.560 left me feeling profoundly cynical about the way that, like 0:46:40.590 --> 0:46:44.819 these big international forums that largely like they they make 0:46:44.820 --> 0:46:47.820 all these jokes about how, you know, if this is 0:46:47.820 --> 0:46:51.150 about diplomats are coming and negotiating deals, but really, that's 0:46:51.150 --> 0:46:53.189 all a side show because all the really important stuff 0:46:53.190 --> 0:46:56.760 are these business guys doing deals and just how kind 0:46:56.760 --> 0:46:59.760 of much of a joke that makes of the climate system, 0:46:59.760 --> 0:47:02.969 and that certainly the experience of many people, including me, 0:47:03.000 --> 0:47:05.430 who witnessed these things up close. So as well as, 0:47:05.430 --> 0:47:08.669 as you said, Thomas, being an incredible deep dive into 0:47:08.670 --> 0:47:11.610 the pathology of these sorts of folk, it still manages 0:47:11.610 --> 0:47:15.510 to land like quite significant and meaty blows on things 0:47:15.510 --> 0:47:20.070 as significant as global capitalism and the climate change framework 0:47:20.070 --> 0:47:22.530 we are all relying on. And that's a cool thing 0:47:22.530 --> 0:47:24.780 for a show to do. And on top of that, 0:47:24.780 --> 0:47:27.290 and yeah, sorry if I say this too much, but 0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:28.610 it's the last time I'm going to get a chance 0:47:28.610 --> 0:47:31.189 to say on this podcast. It is a fun hang show. Like, 0:47:31.190 --> 0:47:33.680 I love hanging out with these guys. It is just 0:47:33.680 --> 0:47:36.860 so interesting when you know there's an amazing sauna scene 0:47:36.860 --> 0:47:38.750 with your guy Joel Kim Booster. You know, I don't 0:47:38.750 --> 0:47:41.000 know if that counts as like a famous cameo, but 0:47:41.000 --> 0:47:44.060 you know him. You like him. He's in a sauna. 0:47:44.060 --> 0:47:48.770 He's completely nude. He is at a moment stroking himself 0:47:48.770 --> 0:47:51.380 in a, in a, in a kind of example of 0:47:51.410 --> 0:47:53.810 trying to get dominance on this other guy. It is 0:47:53.810 --> 0:47:56.209 so funny. It is. It is so cool. The show 0:47:56.210 --> 0:47:59.600 just keeps throwing us random stuff like that. Um, yeah. 0:47:59.630 --> 0:48:03.410 Please everyone. My last, my last wish on the drop 0:48:03.410 --> 0:48:05.300 is to get people into this show, because if you 0:48:05.300 --> 0:48:08.149 all watch it, we will hopefully get way more stuff 0:48:08.150 --> 0:48:08.630 like it. 0:48:08.660 --> 0:48:10.550 Yeah. And I think it does a really like it 0:48:10.550 --> 0:48:13.520 does something really good in TV shows that especially once 0:48:13.520 --> 0:48:15.799 you are three seasons in one, they start to like 0:48:15.830 --> 0:48:18.109 mix up the dynamics and they pair up people that 0:48:18.110 --> 0:48:21.470 haven't previously been together. And you like see that it works. 0:48:21.469 --> 0:48:23.750 So I love that we're getting like both Eric and 0:48:23.750 --> 0:48:26.140 Robert in this episode. Like, ah, a kind of pair, 0:48:26.380 --> 0:48:28.360 you know? Unfortunately, because of a mix up at the 0:48:28.360 --> 0:48:30.130 front desk of their very fancy hotel, they have to 0:48:30.160 --> 0:48:32.589 share a bed and like, they become a funny, odd couple. 0:48:32.590 --> 0:48:34.959 And then you've got this weird dynamic between Eric and Yasmin, 0:48:34.960 --> 0:48:37.630 which is like, is there something sexual going on or 0:48:37.630 --> 0:48:39.970 what's happening there? And like, I guess the show has 0:48:39.969 --> 0:48:42.879 always hinged on the Eric and Harper dynamic. You know, 0:48:42.910 --> 0:48:46.300 it's such a loaded, complex relationship where he was the 0:48:46.300 --> 0:48:48.279 mentor and she was the mentee. And then it's kind 0:48:48.280 --> 0:48:50.049 of continued to change. And they haven't even been in 0:48:50.050 --> 0:48:52.660 a scene together this season. And then we finally get 0:48:52.660 --> 0:48:55.569 at the end of this episode, the most, like, Shakespearean 0:48:55.600 --> 0:48:58.750 kind of comeuppance from Harper, where she, you know, she's 0:48:58.780 --> 0:49:00.969 kind of walking out of the conference as the head 0:49:00.969 --> 0:49:04.090 of this new fund, and they engage Pierpoint to look 0:49:04.090 --> 0:49:07.060 after them. And she, like, demands that he look her 0:49:07.060 --> 0:49:08.739 in the eye after he's just had a bender with 0:49:08.739 --> 0:49:11.620 a prostitute. Like, it was just incredible. Like, you know, 0:49:11.650 --> 0:49:14.950 it does all these things so well and it has 0:49:14.950 --> 0:49:17.950 figured out its characters so well. It knows exactly when to, like, 0:49:17.980 --> 0:49:19.690 push them or pull them back or who to pair 0:49:19.690 --> 0:49:21.969 them with. It really is some of the best TV 0:49:21.969 --> 0:49:24.150 and I'm so glad that I pushed you onto it. Osmond. 0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:28.350 Uh, also, um, that that scene, like, you know, Harper 0:49:28.380 --> 0:49:31.290 getting her revenge on the actress who plays her. Mihaela 0:49:31.320 --> 0:49:34.080 posted a screenshot, I think, before the episode came out 0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:37.080 of just like her smile looking at Eric and the 0:49:37.080 --> 0:49:39.780 music was DMX's X gon give it to you. And 0:49:39.780 --> 0:49:42.360 I'm like, that's fun, that's cool. I like when the 0:49:42.360 --> 0:49:47.610 worlds collide. Um, all right, time to wrap up with 0:49:47.610 --> 0:49:51.720 our Impress Your Friends segment where we share something we've watched, 0:49:51.750 --> 0:49:55.680 listen to, read, or consumed in the world of culture. Meg, 0:49:55.680 --> 0:49:57.989 we have talked for a long time and haven't heard 0:49:57.989 --> 0:49:58.860 your voice. 0:49:58.890 --> 0:50:00.360 What what. 0:50:00.360 --> 0:50:01.500 What do you want to what do you want to 0:50:01.500 --> 0:50:02.279 recommend for us this. 0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:02.760 Week? 0:50:02.880 --> 0:50:05.819 Uh, my Impress Your Friends may not impress your friends 0:50:05.820 --> 0:50:11.129 because it's incredibly dorky. Um, but it's a new ABC show, 0:50:11.160 --> 0:50:15.210 which is Guy Montgomery's guy spelling bee, which is literally 0:50:15.210 --> 0:50:20.190 just a spelling bee on television. Um, guy Montgomery is 0:50:20.190 --> 0:50:23.910 a New Zealand comedian. He's brought the show over from 0:50:23.910 --> 0:50:26.640 New Zealand. It previously had a season that ran in 0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:29.310 New Zealand last year before that. He actually ran it. 0:50:29.310 --> 0:50:31.080 I remember a couple of years back he ran it 0:50:31.080 --> 0:50:35.250 at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival. So basically it involves 0:50:35.250 --> 0:50:38.100 a few local comedians just getting up and acting as 0:50:38.100 --> 0:50:42.060 the spelling bee participants. It's way more entertaining than it sounds. 0:50:42.060 --> 0:50:44.790 They do different challenges. They spell people's name from the audience, 0:50:44.790 --> 0:50:48.630 which isn't as fraught as it sounds. Um, it's a 0:50:48.630 --> 0:50:52.590 really good example of a show that's like this very 0:50:52.590 --> 0:50:55.380 simple concept. You just get talented people in the room 0:50:55.380 --> 0:50:57.690 and they make something really special out of it. He's 0:50:57.690 --> 0:51:00.780 also joined by Aaron Chen, who is an Australian comedian, 0:51:00.780 --> 0:51:02.819 that a lot of people in the industry have been like, 0:51:02.850 --> 0:51:04.710 that guy needs to have a TV show. Why doesn't 0:51:04.920 --> 0:51:09.360 Chen have an ABC show? This is kind of it. Um, yeah. 0:51:09.360 --> 0:51:11.220 I think it's just a really great way. I mean, 0:51:11.250 --> 0:51:12.839 it's one of those perfect shows. If you're a fan 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:16.200 of something like Taskmaster, which is like this short, silly, 0:51:16.200 --> 0:51:18.060 fun show you can digest in a small amount of 0:51:18.060 --> 0:51:21.930 time As a new parent. That's a really important facet 0:51:21.930 --> 0:51:24.900 of my TV watching. At this point, I only really 0:51:24.900 --> 0:51:27.690 have capacity for things 20 minutes at a time. But 0:51:27.690 --> 0:51:30.390 it's also, I mean, in the interest of getting people 0:51:30.390 --> 0:51:33.029 to make shows like this, this is totally one to support. 0:51:33.030 --> 0:51:35.969 People need to be streaming shows like this. So, you know, 0:51:36.000 --> 0:51:39.630 Australian comedians can also get things like this off the 0:51:39.630 --> 0:51:41.970 ground without having runs on the board in New Zealand. 0:51:42.120 --> 0:51:44.430 And it does feature a whole lot of up and 0:51:44.430 --> 0:51:47.609 coming Australian comedians as well. As you know, of course, 0:51:47.640 --> 0:51:49.650 Tom Gleeson is on the first episode, it's ABC and 0:51:49.650 --> 0:51:52.170 he has to be. But you know, the second episode 0:51:52.170 --> 0:51:55.290 also has like Urvi Majumdar, who is someone I hadn't 0:51:55.290 --> 0:51:57.239 heard of, but she apparently has like a fresh blood 0:51:57.239 --> 0:52:00.480 pilot that like, you know, doesn't get the airtime. It should. 0:52:00.510 --> 0:52:02.339 And it's nice to see her up on screen getting 0:52:02.370 --> 0:52:03.450 getting the word out. 0:52:03.480 --> 0:52:06.239 Yeah, really great to see the ABC taking a risk, 0:52:06.239 --> 0:52:08.819 which is something we've often, you know, chided them for. 0:52:08.969 --> 0:52:11.040 I've not seen the show, but I think Guy Montgomery 0:52:11.040 --> 0:52:13.590 and Aaron Tran are very, very, very funny. So thank 0:52:13.620 --> 0:52:13.859 you for that. 0:52:13.890 --> 0:52:16.529 Aaron in particular is very good. He's just doing like 0:52:16.560 --> 0:52:18.880 the full off the beach stick and a lot of 0:52:18.880 --> 0:52:20.890 prop comedy, which also sounds bad, but just trust me, 0:52:20.890 --> 0:52:21.460 it's good. 0:52:22.120 --> 0:52:24.280 I do trust you. I do trust you. Thomas. What 0:52:24.280 --> 0:52:25.209 have you got? Uh, look. 0:52:25.239 --> 0:52:27.880 I thought I would theme this one, and I am 0:52:27.880 --> 0:52:30.730 recommending that you impress your friends by getting them to 0:52:30.760 --> 0:52:37.239 revisit Oasis Supersonic, the 2016 documentary produced by Asif Kapadia. 0:52:37.270 --> 0:52:40.419 Obviously the director of Amy. It's on Amazon Prime, and 0:52:40.420 --> 0:52:43.060 if you haven't actually seen it, it is an incredible documentary. 0:52:43.060 --> 0:52:45.339 It kind of revisits the band at the height of 0:52:45.370 --> 0:52:47.799 their 90s fame. It got, you know, like first person 0:52:47.800 --> 0:52:50.319 interviews with Noel and Liam, who were not on speaking 0:52:50.350 --> 0:52:52.390 terms at the time it was made, as well as 0:52:52.420 --> 0:52:54.640 like all the people in their life. Um, but look, 0:52:54.670 --> 0:52:57.609 obviously we are in this, you know, Oasis renaissance right now. 0:52:57.640 --> 0:52:59.740 Everyone's going to be talking about them for a long time. 0:52:59.770 --> 0:53:01.600 Probably bored of it by the time the tour rolls around. 0:53:01.600 --> 0:53:03.910 But if you were keen to kind of be like, okay, 0:53:03.940 --> 0:53:06.520 I may as well can't fight this Oasis return, so 0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:08.140 let me get back in the zone. It is actually 0:53:08.140 --> 0:53:10.900 a really well made documentary, and the music is great, 0:53:10.900 --> 0:53:13.330 and it will confirm whether or not you are excited 0:53:13.330 --> 0:53:15.960 about the Oasis return or if you are just going 0:53:15.989 --> 0:53:16.830 to tune out. 0:53:16.860 --> 0:53:21.330 Well timed, well timed recommendation. Um, mine is a film 0:53:21.330 --> 0:53:25.259 called Strange Darlings. It's out right now is a really 0:53:25.260 --> 0:53:29.190 interestingly constructed film. It's kind of, I think, a little 0:53:29.219 --> 0:53:31.710 bit of a nod to to Tarantino, not really in 0:53:31.739 --> 0:53:35.520 sort of the themes necessarily, or the, the hyper violence, 0:53:35.520 --> 0:53:38.580 but in terms of these kind of like six seemingly 0:53:38.610 --> 0:53:41.339 unlinked chapters that are told that all end up kind 0:53:41.340 --> 0:53:46.410 of collapsing in on themselves. It's this really electric, sharp, thrilling, 0:53:46.410 --> 0:53:48.750 serial killer movie. I really don't want to say too 0:53:48.750 --> 0:53:50.489 much about the plot, because I think the less you 0:53:50.489 --> 0:53:52.530 know going into this one, the better. One of the 0:53:52.530 --> 0:53:55.350 really interesting things about this movie, it's shot on 35mm 0:53:55.350 --> 0:53:59.160 film by Giovanni Ribisi, the very prolific actor who's making 0:53:59.160 --> 0:54:01.739 his debut as a cinematographer and, like most of the 0:54:01.739 --> 0:54:04.860 media I've seen, is focused on that because, like a 0:54:04.890 --> 0:54:06.630 lot of the people involved in the production are not 0:54:06.630 --> 0:54:09.900 super famous. Uh, it's just really good. And if you 0:54:09.900 --> 0:54:12.150 want to see a good movie that is out that 0:54:12.150 --> 0:54:14.480 is interesting will make you think and looks different to 0:54:14.480 --> 0:54:17.060 a lot of the other stuff out there. Strange darlings. 0:54:17.090 --> 0:54:20.089 Give it a go. All right, so just before we 0:54:20.090 --> 0:54:22.580 wrap up, it is my last episode on the drop. 0:54:22.580 --> 0:54:27.560 I did some thank yous last week, but just to reiterate, 0:54:27.590 --> 0:54:29.840 you know, we can't make this show without our wonderful 0:54:29.840 --> 0:54:34.700 producers Kai Cormack, David, and of course, the wonderful Ruby Schwartz, 0:54:34.700 --> 0:54:38.870 who was our lead producer during the succession episodes, which 0:54:38.870 --> 0:54:40.640 I think are a big part of the reason so 0:54:40.640 --> 0:54:43.130 many of you listening have jumped on board, and it 0:54:43.130 --> 0:54:45.530 was really fun to do that. One of the most 0:54:45.530 --> 0:54:47.660 fun things I think I've managed to do in my 0:54:47.660 --> 0:54:50.450 time in Australian media. And of course, it started with 0:54:50.450 --> 0:54:54.320 the three of us, Meg, Thomas and myself. Meg, you 0:54:54.350 --> 0:54:55.910 went to have a family, which is very exciting. 0:54:55.910 --> 0:54:56.960 And then very rude of me. 0:54:57.110 --> 0:54:59.360 Mel jumped on board and it's very sad that Mel's 0:54:59.390 --> 0:55:01.310 been unwell, but she's on the mend. I know I 0:55:01.310 --> 0:55:02.960 keep saying that, but she's definitely on the mend. 0:55:02.989 --> 0:55:03.500 Definitely. 0:55:03.500 --> 0:55:07.460 Sounds like you have her locked on an island somewhere that. 0:55:09.230 --> 0:55:12.250 Um. I don't have her locked in an island somewhere. Um, 0:55:12.250 --> 0:55:15.220 but yeah, huge, huge, huge thanks to to you guys 0:55:15.219 --> 0:55:18.400 and to Mel for making this the funnest part of 0:55:18.400 --> 0:55:19.719 my job every week. 0:55:19.750 --> 0:55:22.239 I'm obviously very sad you're leaving, and it's been the 0:55:22.239 --> 0:55:25.360 highlight of all of our weeks, I would say. And 0:55:25.390 --> 0:55:28.660 you know, my first regular podcast ever and it's been 0:55:28.660 --> 0:55:30.790 such a pleasure and honor to do it alongside you, Osman. 0:55:30.790 --> 0:55:33.310 And I know I speak for Mel as well, who 0:55:33.310 --> 0:55:35.380 is very sad that she can't be here today. Um, 0:55:35.380 --> 0:55:38.590 that it's been such a great experience and one of 0:55:38.590 --> 0:55:41.020 the one of the true work highlights in a long career. 0:55:41.020 --> 0:55:43.359 So we will miss you. And I don't doubt that 0:55:43.360 --> 0:55:45.460 the listeners will miss you and you're one of a kind. 0:55:45.489 --> 0:55:47.560 So I was thinking about whether or not there's an 0:55:47.560 --> 0:55:51.670 appropriate Oasis song, whether it's we can choose between Stop 0:55:51.670 --> 0:55:53.770 Crying Your Heart Out or Don't Look Back in Anger. 0:55:53.770 --> 0:55:57.069 But I think that Live Forever is perhaps the most applicable. 0:55:57.820 --> 0:56:03.670 Wasting things. I'll never see you. I'm gonna live forever. I'm. 0:56:06.790 --> 0:56:14.670 Gonna live for Don't fall for it. 0:56:16.710 --> 0:56:18.359 Ah, that's really nice. And you mentioned our listeners and 0:56:18.360 --> 0:56:21.660 I should say that since we announced the news last week, the, uh, 0:56:21.660 --> 0:56:25.470 amount of listeners who have contacted me on all sorts 0:56:25.469 --> 0:56:28.290 of platforms, people have left multiple five star reviews saying 0:56:28.290 --> 0:56:29.370 how sad they are. I mean, you could have done 0:56:29.370 --> 0:56:31.319 that while I was around, you know? You know, the 0:56:31.320 --> 0:56:33.630 fact that our review rating dropped to 4.3 is the 0:56:33.630 --> 0:56:37.770 reason why I'm leaving, frankly. Um, but no, but thanks 0:56:37.770 --> 0:56:40.350 to this, this has been such a lovely community of people. 0:56:40.350 --> 0:56:43.140 And thank you for those words, Thomas. Um, before we 0:56:43.140 --> 0:56:45.060 wrap up, make sure to stick around for my conversation 0:56:45.060 --> 0:56:47.670 with Charlie Vickers, one of the stars of The Rings 0:56:47.670 --> 0:56:50.520 of Power. It was a super interesting chat with him 0:56:50.520 --> 0:56:52.440 about taking on the role of one of the most 0:56:52.440 --> 0:56:56.700 notorious villains in literary and cinematic history, and the process 0:56:56.700 --> 0:56:59.340 of working on one of the most expensive TV shows 0:56:59.340 --> 0:57:03.299 ever made. Thomas, Mel. Thomas, Meg. Wow. 0:57:03.810 --> 0:57:06.569 I was going to. We can keep fitting. Way to end. 0:57:06.600 --> 0:57:07.109 We can keep. 0:57:07.110 --> 0:57:07.470 That one. 0:57:07.469 --> 0:57:07.859 In. 0:57:09.000 --> 0:57:10.410 It happens a lot. Listeners. 0:57:10.710 --> 0:57:11.670 Thanks heaps guys. 0:57:11.700 --> 0:57:12.870 Thanks. Thank you. 0:57:20.550 --> 0:57:22.980 Charlie Vickers, thank you so much for joining the show. 0:57:22.980 --> 0:57:24.480 Thank you Osman, thanks for having me. 0:57:24.600 --> 0:57:26.730 In The Rings of Power, you play one of the 0:57:26.730 --> 0:57:30.300 most notorious, well known literary villains of all time. I've 0:57:30.300 --> 0:57:33.180 read that you actually didn't know that you were playing 0:57:33.180 --> 0:57:36.060 Sauron until you were well into production on the first season. 0:57:36.090 --> 0:57:37.020 Is that the case? 0:57:37.050 --> 0:57:40.260 Yeah, I think I'd been in New Zealand for over 0:57:40.260 --> 0:57:45.390 six months and we'd had a hiatus because of Covid. 0:57:45.390 --> 0:57:47.550 And then once the hiatus finished, we were about to 0:57:47.580 --> 0:57:51.930 start filming episode three, and the showrunners called me into 0:57:51.930 --> 0:57:54.390 their office and said, yeah, this character Halbrand, that you've 0:57:54.390 --> 0:57:57.480 been playing, he's actually Sauron. 0:57:58.500 --> 0:57:59.580 Of all the reveals. 0:57:59.580 --> 0:58:00.570 To have. Exactly. 0:58:00.600 --> 0:58:03.900 And I was just like, what? I was a bit suspicious. Yeah. 0:58:03.930 --> 0:58:06.050 I had an inkling that maybe there was more to 0:58:06.080 --> 0:58:08.540 Halbrand than met the eye. 0:58:08.570 --> 0:58:11.330 I know that some of your fellow cast members weren't 0:58:11.330 --> 0:58:14.210 even sure the nature of the show when they were 0:58:14.210 --> 0:58:17.180 auditioning for it. Is that something that's like, relatively common? 0:58:17.180 --> 0:58:19.160 Was that your experience on this, or did you have 0:58:19.160 --> 0:58:21.140 a bit more Intel as to what this was about? 0:58:21.170 --> 0:58:24.830 No, that was that was um, my experience as well. 0:58:24.830 --> 0:58:27.530 I think it is quite common, particularly shows with big IP, 0:58:27.980 --> 0:58:32.720 that they don't release much information. So the sides, the 0:58:32.720 --> 0:58:37.070 scenes that we got, they're all dummy scenes to audition 0:58:37.070 --> 0:58:39.950 with and the character names were all altered. So I 0:58:39.950 --> 0:58:43.520 had no idea. I actually auditioned for Elrond originally, but 0:58:43.520 --> 0:58:46.490 I didn't know it was Elrond. It was only in hindsight. Yeah, right. 0:58:46.520 --> 0:58:50.120 So yeah, I think I did maybe seven auditions. Um, 0:58:50.150 --> 0:58:53.720 so it was a long process. They really very thorough. 0:58:53.720 --> 0:58:56.570 And one of those auditions, I think, involved you performing 0:58:56.570 --> 0:59:02.300 Milton's Paradise Lost, which is the quintessential angel falling from heaven. Yeah, 0:59:02.330 --> 0:59:04.420 that that that must have been fun. Did that give 0:59:04.420 --> 0:59:06.160 you a bit of an inkling as to where the 0:59:06.160 --> 0:59:07.060 show and character was going? 0:59:07.090 --> 0:59:10.480 That was why I was a bit suspicious when of 0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:14.050 the Halbrand character, because on the surface, he's a villager 0:59:14.260 --> 0:59:18.640 with this kind of hidden nobility, a past that was 0:59:18.640 --> 0:59:20.980 connected to a line of kings. But then I was like, 0:59:21.010 --> 0:59:26.110 I just auditioned with Paradise Lost, playing Satan. And then 0:59:26.140 --> 0:59:28.150 I did a Richard the Third speech. So I was like, 0:59:28.480 --> 0:59:31.630 there must be a dark element to this character. 0:59:31.660 --> 0:59:33.220 It's either a succession spin off or. 0:59:33.340 --> 0:59:35.560 Exactly. Yeah, exactly. 0:59:35.590 --> 0:59:38.440 What kind of relationship, if any, did you have with 0:59:38.470 --> 0:59:42.460 the the books, the franchise before getting involved on The 0:59:42.460 --> 0:59:43.120 Rings of Power? 0:59:43.150 --> 0:59:47.350 I, um, I was a fan of Lord of the rings, 0:59:47.350 --> 0:59:50.920 but pretty much through the Peter Jackson films. I mean, 0:59:50.950 --> 0:59:55.240 they popularized it for the world, I think, and I 0:59:55.240 --> 0:59:57.820 was definitely the target audience. I was I was a 0:59:57.820 --> 1:00:01.300 kid or an adolescent when all that came out, and 1:00:01.380 --> 1:00:04.320 I was pretty obsessed with those films, but I'd never 1:00:04.320 --> 1:00:08.880 read anything beyond that. I'd never read The Hobbit, I'd 1:00:08.880 --> 1:00:12.840 never read the trilogy or The Silmarillion, and I played 1:00:12.840 --> 1:00:16.830 the PlayStation games as well. They were very intense, very difficult. 1:00:16.830 --> 1:00:18.180 I remember them being really difficult. 1:00:18.180 --> 1:00:19.500 I remember the same thing. Yeah. 1:00:19.830 --> 1:00:22.110 But it wasn't until I was cast that I just thought, 1:00:22.170 --> 1:00:24.210 you know, I've got to sit down and read everything. Yeah. 1:00:24.240 --> 1:00:25.470 And there's a lot of reading. 1:00:25.470 --> 1:00:27.810 I feel like the world is split into normal people 1:00:27.810 --> 1:00:31.260 and like Silmarillion guys, like people that read the appendices 1:00:31.260 --> 1:00:33.240 and know all that sort of stuff. Once you did 1:00:33.240 --> 1:00:35.820 get into that, you're like, okay, this is helpful for 1:00:35.820 --> 1:00:38.580 my character. And or are you just, like, overwhelmed by 1:00:38.580 --> 1:00:40.260 the sheer amount of lore and history? 1:00:40.320 --> 1:00:42.330 I think that's I think that's it's a bit of both. 1:00:42.330 --> 1:00:47.220 You will never have read everything that Tolkien has written, 1:00:47.220 --> 1:00:50.580 because there is so much lore and mythology around the 1:00:50.580 --> 1:00:53.880 whole thing. But I definitely became one of those Silmarillion guys. 1:00:53.910 --> 1:00:56.790 And it's it's I can see why people get so 1:00:56.820 --> 1:01:02.780 obsessed with that, because it's such a vast and detailed 1:01:02.780 --> 1:01:05.390 world that he created and some of the stories like. Yeah, 1:01:05.390 --> 1:01:06.860 there are parts of that book that are a bit 1:01:06.860 --> 1:01:08.959 of a slog to get through. But there are other 1:01:08.960 --> 1:01:12.980 parts which are just incredible, and I found it particularly 1:01:12.980 --> 1:01:17.630 useful because it it's Sauron's whole story, and it's different 1:01:17.630 --> 1:01:23.240 to the Sauron that has been popularized. He is walking around, talking, 1:01:23.240 --> 1:01:25.610 interacting with people. And yeah. 1:01:25.640 --> 1:01:28.130 In the films you mentioned, Sauron is this huge presence. 1:01:28.130 --> 1:01:30.650 He's largely a disembodied burning eye. There's a couple of 1:01:30.650 --> 1:01:33.380 scenes with him being played. I think Sally Baker, the 1:01:33.380 --> 1:01:36.920 New Zealand actor in the Suits of Armor for you, 1:01:36.920 --> 1:01:39.350 is it is it like helpful that it's a bit 1:01:39.350 --> 1:01:42.320 of a blank slate to play him as quote unquote 1:01:42.350 --> 1:01:44.870 human like as a physical person? Or is it a 1:01:44.870 --> 1:01:47.510 little bit daunting because, you know, when everyone knows where 1:01:47.510 --> 1:01:49.010 this is going, you're going to end up being one 1:01:49.010 --> 1:01:51.380 of the most famous evil eyes of all time. How 1:01:51.380 --> 1:01:53.840 does that impact the way that you approach making the show? 1:01:53.870 --> 1:01:56.090 I don't see it so much as a daunting thing, 1:01:56.090 --> 1:01:59.260 because I think when you join a show like this, 1:01:59.260 --> 1:02:01.780 I had to learn to let go of expectation of 1:02:01.780 --> 1:02:05.080 people because everyone has their opinion and you take the 1:02:05.080 --> 1:02:07.720 ones that you think are really useful to your development 1:02:07.720 --> 1:02:13.450 of the character. But I loved the process of developing 1:02:13.450 --> 1:02:17.710 him throughout this time period because it's a real opportunity, 1:02:17.740 --> 1:02:21.490 because he is. Tolkien wrote of him in this time 1:02:21.490 --> 1:02:26.350 period that he is a character that wants to heal 1:02:26.350 --> 1:02:30.400 and rehabilitate and restore middle earth, and that's kind of 1:02:30.430 --> 1:02:32.470 the way I approach the character. I wanted to find 1:02:32.470 --> 1:02:35.740 an emotional through line and something that like, I know 1:02:35.740 --> 1:02:39.790 he's a villain and that's that is the purpose that 1:02:39.790 --> 1:02:42.640 he serves in this story. But I never really found 1:02:42.640 --> 1:02:45.610 it that helpful for me to look at him from 1:02:45.610 --> 1:02:48.760 that point of view as an actor. So I kind 1:02:48.790 --> 1:02:51.820 of wanted to find the elements of his character that 1:02:51.820 --> 1:02:56.130 I could really connect to. And I that was, I 1:02:56.160 --> 1:03:00.270 felt an enormous privilege to have the opportunity to bring 1:03:00.270 --> 1:03:03.810 this part of him to life, particularly as Tolkien wrote 1:03:03.810 --> 1:03:08.910 in such detail and cared about Sauron. It seems, he wrote, 1:03:08.940 --> 1:03:11.940 like all these incarnations of this character. I mean, he 1:03:11.940 --> 1:03:15.330 was originally a giant house cat called Tisvilde. 1:03:15.630 --> 1:03:16.110 Seriously? 1:03:16.140 --> 1:03:19.080 Yeah, that was his first incarnation of Sauron. And then, 1:03:19.110 --> 1:03:23.490 you know, stories like Beren and Luthien and you see 1:03:23.490 --> 1:03:27.030 the development of the character in Tolkien's mind. And he, 1:03:27.060 --> 1:03:31.950 he wrote, um, these, these letters which were being collated, 1:03:31.950 --> 1:03:35.100 and they're personal letters. They're professional letters. But in them, 1:03:35.250 --> 1:03:39.600 he kind of details his thoughts about his own characters 1:03:39.600 --> 1:03:42.030 and the purpose they serve in his stories. So I 1:03:42.030 --> 1:03:47.100 found that really helpful. So overall, it's been a massive privilege. 1:03:47.130 --> 1:03:48.810 Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, it makes sense because 1:03:48.810 --> 1:03:50.640 one thing we everyone knows about this character is he's 1:03:50.640 --> 1:03:53.100 a villain. So the fact that, like, you can add 1:03:53.100 --> 1:03:55.350 something to that that gives you some. It's so interesting 1:03:55.380 --> 1:03:57.570 to me when there's a character who is like an antagonist, 1:03:57.570 --> 1:03:59.550 but you follow them, you still want to care about them, 1:03:59.550 --> 1:04:01.770 and weirdly, you end up feeling sympathy for them. At 1:04:01.770 --> 1:04:06.120 moments like the season premiere, season two premiere is very graphic, 1:04:06.120 --> 1:04:08.490 violent scene. That's like a bit of a prologue to it. 1:04:08.790 --> 1:04:10.830 This guy is like, like I said, one of the 1:04:10.830 --> 1:04:12.720 most evil literary characters of all time. But you still 1:04:12.720 --> 1:04:14.610 feel pretty bad when those guys are going to town 1:04:14.640 --> 1:04:14.820 on it. 1:04:14.850 --> 1:04:15.210 Oh yeah. 1:04:15.210 --> 1:04:17.580 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that is it. And it's 1:04:17.610 --> 1:04:20.760 that maybe there will be people that feel sympathetic towards 1:04:20.760 --> 1:04:24.390 him as as the show goes on. But I kind 1:04:24.390 --> 1:04:26.940 of when I think about it, I think it's more 1:04:26.940 --> 1:04:30.840 of a thing of I just hope people enjoy watching 1:04:30.840 --> 1:04:34.470 him do his thing. It's kind of like there's an 1:04:34.470 --> 1:04:38.370 element of anti-hero about him in that you kind of 1:04:38.400 --> 1:04:42.870 are taking pleasure as an audience member, watching him manipulate 1:04:42.870 --> 1:04:47.370 and and navigate his way through middle earth. And yeah, 1:04:47.370 --> 1:04:49.650 that's something that I'm looking forward to seeing when I 1:04:49.680 --> 1:04:51.510 watch the rest of the episodes. 1:04:51.950 --> 1:04:53.420 Can you talk to me a little bit about the 1:04:53.420 --> 1:04:56.210 physical demands of this particular role? Like in both seasons, 1:04:56.210 --> 1:04:58.730 there seems to be a lot of scenes involving water. 1:04:58.730 --> 1:05:00.320 I think you guys were like on a raft for 1:05:00.320 --> 1:05:02.720 a very long period of time. And then the character 1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:07.010 also goes through a pretty significant physical transformation in season two. 1:05:07.040 --> 1:05:09.650 And I heard somewhere that you wore weights to sort 1:05:09.680 --> 1:05:11.690 of change the way that you moved. Can you talk 1:05:11.690 --> 1:05:13.490 to me about all the kind of the physical stunt 1:05:13.520 --> 1:05:15.440 side of a role like this? Yeah. 1:05:15.470 --> 1:05:18.350 For sure. I mean, it is incredibly particularly the first 1:05:18.350 --> 1:05:22.010 season was physical because Halbrand was kind of always in 1:05:22.040 --> 1:05:26.930 a physical situation, and he was a man of the earth. Right? Um, so, yeah, 1:05:26.960 --> 1:05:29.090 I always seemed to be in water on the show. 1:05:29.120 --> 1:05:31.220 I'm always and I'm wearing leather trousers when I'm. And 1:05:31.220 --> 1:05:33.440 it was the same this season, at the start of 1:05:33.440 --> 1:05:37.220 this season. Um, sodden leather trousers at the bottom of 1:05:37.220 --> 1:05:40.820 a massive water tank. And that's incredibly demanding. I had 1:05:40.820 --> 1:05:42.650 to learn to do a bit of free diving and 1:05:42.650 --> 1:05:45.110 breath holding and stuff to be able to do that. Yeah, 1:05:45.110 --> 1:05:48.590 and horse riding and such. So it is a lot. 1:05:48.620 --> 1:05:50.170 We did a lot of stunt work we kind of 1:05:50.200 --> 1:05:51.710 did in New Zealand. We were doing like 2 or 1:05:51.710 --> 1:05:56.020 3 hours of stunts every morning, just sword fighting. Yeah. Um, 1:05:56.050 --> 1:06:00.520 but the second season, it kind of goes from physical 1:06:00.520 --> 1:06:06.940 challenges to quite linguistically challenging, and there's quite long scenes 1:06:06.940 --> 1:06:12.670 that are real meaty actor scenes. And that was an 1:06:12.670 --> 1:06:17.260 enormous challenge. And the ankle weights I used as a tool, 1:06:17.260 --> 1:06:19.720 something I've had from drama school, but I wore them 1:06:19.720 --> 1:06:21.910 for the first two weeks or so of filming, and 1:06:21.910 --> 1:06:23.740 it helped me because he's a god. It kind of 1:06:23.770 --> 1:06:28.030 helped me establish this sense of the literal sense of 1:06:28.030 --> 1:06:32.740 weight of the character, and the whole character is geared 1:06:32.770 --> 1:06:37.360 towards Celebrimbor. It's he's the greatest of elven smiths. He's 1:06:37.360 --> 1:06:40.960 like a celebrity in Middle-Earth. And it's like, who would 1:06:40.960 --> 1:06:42.220 he respond to? 1:06:42.250 --> 1:06:43.030 Yeah, right. 1:06:43.210 --> 1:06:45.520 Who who's the kind of person that could appear to 1:06:45.550 --> 1:06:49.140 him and say, let's make these rings to save all 1:06:49.140 --> 1:06:53.070 of middle earth. And for me, it was this annatar 1:06:53.070 --> 1:06:56.370 figure that Tolkien writes about. And all Tolkien said about 1:06:56.370 --> 1:07:00.600 Annatar was that he has a fair form and that 1:07:00.600 --> 1:07:05.160 he has a regality to him. He's regal. And yeah, 1:07:05.190 --> 1:07:07.200 I just use that and the ankle weights and the 1:07:07.200 --> 1:07:12.330 physicality of that, everything's quite still and contained. And yeah, 1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:14.850 it's those little tidbits of information that you can get 1:07:14.850 --> 1:07:17.310 from the books which inform the character. 1:07:17.340 --> 1:07:21.570 Yeah, that's really interesting. The show is the most expensive 1:07:21.570 --> 1:07:24.840 show ever made. A lot of Australian actors I talk 1:07:24.840 --> 1:07:28.500 to know they work on generally small scale productions, and 1:07:28.590 --> 1:07:31.290 in some cases they get 1 or 2 takes to 1:07:31.320 --> 1:07:33.000 film a scene and it's like, that's the best take. 1:07:33.000 --> 1:07:35.550 We're moving on. On a show like this, with the scale, 1:07:35.550 --> 1:07:39.030 the production values, the drive, the ambition to make it 1:07:39.030 --> 1:07:42.330 the biggest. How different is that? Like, do you have 1:07:42.330 --> 1:07:44.730 more time to rehearse? Do you have more time opportunities 1:07:44.730 --> 1:07:46.970 to get it right? Does it shift the way that 1:07:46.970 --> 1:07:49.670 the actual mechanics of making this show work? 1:07:49.700 --> 1:07:53.390 I think it's twofold. This season, I felt like there 1:07:53.390 --> 1:07:56.000 was a bit of time and we were lucky. Charles Edwards, 1:07:56.000 --> 1:07:59.630 who plays Kelly Brimble, he and I filmed most of 1:07:59.630 --> 1:08:02.510 our scenes chronologically. Oh, cool. And which was which is 1:08:02.510 --> 1:08:04.520 really rare. But because of that, it felt like we 1:08:04.520 --> 1:08:05.510 had a lot of time. 1:08:05.540 --> 1:08:07.010 I think for a lot of people, they don't know 1:08:07.010 --> 1:08:10.190 that like TV shows, films are not always filmed. Yeah. 1:08:10.220 --> 1:08:11.450 The order of the start to the end. So that 1:08:11.450 --> 1:08:12.230 is kind of rare. Yeah. 1:08:12.260 --> 1:08:14.300 Often, like, I'll. You'll get to set. And you're filming 1:08:14.300 --> 1:08:17.780 the last season scene of a season first. 1:08:17.810 --> 1:08:18.440 Right, right, right. 1:08:18.470 --> 1:08:20.870 You know, but so for us to film it basically 1:08:20.870 --> 1:08:25.160 all in order was really special. And it meant that 1:08:25.160 --> 1:08:27.290 it felt like we had time and we were basically 1:08:27.290 --> 1:08:30.110 on one set. So we did get maybe you never 1:08:30.110 --> 1:08:32.660 really do more than like, four takes. Okay. Three. It's 1:08:32.660 --> 1:08:35.750 normally probably. Yeah. Two, three four takes. 1:08:35.780 --> 1:08:36.980 I didn't mean to imply, by the way, that you're 1:08:36.979 --> 1:08:38.480 really bad and you need 20 takes. Oh, no. 1:08:38.479 --> 1:08:42.589 Yeah, I need 35 takes every time. No, but often, 1:08:42.590 --> 1:08:46.360 like on slower moving films, you do get the opportunity 1:08:46.360 --> 1:08:48.040 to do more takes. That is a thing. And it's 1:08:48.040 --> 1:08:50.530 not nothing to do with acting. It's more just if 1:08:50.530 --> 1:08:52.180 the time is there, why not use it? 1:08:52.210 --> 1:08:52.870 Have the options. 1:08:52.900 --> 1:08:56.650 Yeah, but it is all relative. I mean, the budget 1:08:56.650 --> 1:09:00.130 and the scale of this production, I think, you know, 1:09:00.160 --> 1:09:03.939 you can. Tolkien is the only way to do it, 1:09:03.939 --> 1:09:06.190 is to have resource to do it, because it's such 1:09:06.189 --> 1:09:08.170 a massive world and you need totally. 1:09:08.170 --> 1:09:08.889 You can't phone it in. 1:09:08.920 --> 1:09:11.469 No, that's the thing you need to. And that's in 1:09:11.470 --> 1:09:16.300 all levels. What the the resources of the show have 1:09:16.300 --> 1:09:21.189 given us is a level of quality from, like, everyone 1:09:21.189 --> 1:09:25.180 has put their heart and soul into it, whether you're actors, 1:09:25.210 --> 1:09:30.400 producers or you're in the costume department or set department. Um, 1:09:30.430 --> 1:09:33.640 there is so much love poured into it. And that's 1:09:33.640 --> 1:09:36.100 the thing that I've really taken away from the experience, 1:09:36.100 --> 1:09:39.460 because it's I think you can't do Tolkien without that 1:09:39.460 --> 1:09:40.660 level of care. 1:09:40.689 --> 1:09:43.710 Amazing. Yeah. You talked a bit earlier about the weight 1:09:43.710 --> 1:09:45.990 of expectation and how you just can't really let that 1:09:46.020 --> 1:09:48.990 kind of distract you from just doing your job and 1:09:48.990 --> 1:09:51.600 giving the performance your best. But given that the first 1:09:51.600 --> 1:09:54.900 season was a critical success, like a ratings success, you've 1:09:54.930 --> 1:09:57.630 sort of proven yourselves. Now going into the second season 1:09:57.630 --> 1:09:59.700 when you were filming that, did that shift at all 1:09:59.700 --> 1:10:01.890 your work where you're like, okay, now we've done it, 1:10:01.920 --> 1:10:03.510 we know we can do it. I'm like a little 1:10:03.540 --> 1:10:05.550 bit nervous to prove that we can do it again. 1:10:05.580 --> 1:10:07.200 We can do it better. We can do it as good. 1:10:07.200 --> 1:10:09.960 I think you have. It wasn't so much because of 1:10:09.960 --> 1:10:14.520 the reception that I. That changed my perception. I think 1:10:14.520 --> 1:10:17.010 it was more for me developing a level of comfort 1:10:17.010 --> 1:10:19.650 as an actor when you walk onto a set with. 1:10:19.830 --> 1:10:21.810 When I walked on my first day in New Zealand, 1:10:21.810 --> 1:10:25.110 and there's 500 people in the video village and a 1:10:25.110 --> 1:10:28.980 huge cranes, and I'd never experienced anything like that. And 1:10:28.979 --> 1:10:31.410 so and I think it was every like most of 1:10:31.410 --> 1:10:33.389 us in the cast had never experienced anything like that. 1:10:33.390 --> 1:10:37.230 So there was a level certainly across the cast, this 1:10:37.229 --> 1:10:41.790 low level of, um, kind of like, wow, this is big. 1:10:41.790 --> 1:10:47.549 And I had to sort of learn to be comfortable 1:10:47.550 --> 1:10:50.040 in that environment. And the biggest change with the second 1:10:50.040 --> 1:10:53.610 season is you take feedback from people that are close 1:10:53.610 --> 1:10:58.019 to you and people that, um, you think opinions, people 1:10:58.020 --> 1:11:00.900 that have a really good judge of shows or media 1:11:00.900 --> 1:11:03.270 or whatever it is. But the second season, it was 1:11:03.270 --> 1:11:06.930 mainly just the fact that I was I was used 1:11:06.930 --> 1:11:09.120 to going onto sets like that. Yeah. So I had 1:11:09.120 --> 1:11:12.780 this level of ease and I was able to have 1:11:12.780 --> 1:11:15.450 a lot more fun with it because I was comfortable 1:11:15.450 --> 1:11:17.670 going to work every day, and I kind of knew 1:11:17.700 --> 1:11:21.660 what to expect. Yeah, yeah. And that's something that we 1:11:21.660 --> 1:11:25.110 just developed through familiarity and working in the environment over 1:11:25.110 --> 1:11:28.589 the first season. So in a way, the second season 1:11:28.590 --> 1:11:30.540 is just kind of been like the shackles are off 1:11:30.540 --> 1:11:33.090 and I've just had so much fun doing it. 1:11:33.090 --> 1:11:35.790 That's awesome. That's really cool to hear. Yeah. Uh, one 1:11:35.790 --> 1:11:36.990 of the last things I wanted to ask you is 1:11:37.020 --> 1:11:39.590 I'd probably applied more to the big reveal of the 1:11:39.590 --> 1:11:42.110 first season, but there still twists and turns and lots 1:11:42.110 --> 1:11:44.960 of things to come in the second season. These days, fans, 1:11:44.960 --> 1:11:47.240 they love to pass every single thing that is said 1:11:47.240 --> 1:11:49.880 in an interview, and people sometimes slip up and they 1:11:49.880 --> 1:11:51.679 don't know what's been revealed and what hasn't been revealed. 1:11:51.710 --> 1:11:54.259 Has that been a stressful part of making this show? 1:11:54.290 --> 1:11:57.979 Usually, like the first, the first season when I was 1:11:57.979 --> 1:12:00.920 doing media and the press tour, I really had to 1:12:00.950 --> 1:12:05.180 make sure I didn't give any spoilers away. And that's like. 1:12:05.210 --> 1:12:05.960 Did you hold it? 1:12:05.990 --> 1:12:06.590 Did you manage. 1:12:06.590 --> 1:12:07.370 To? Yeah, I don't. 1:12:07.370 --> 1:12:09.800 Think I gave. People got quite good stuff. The tour 1:12:09.800 --> 1:12:12.620 started off being like, oh, I think Sarah might be 1:12:12.620 --> 1:12:14.450 in the show. And then by the end they were like, 1:12:14.479 --> 1:12:18.170 You're Sauron, aren't you? So I had to just deny, deny, deny. 1:12:18.200 --> 1:12:19.849 I would always say something along the lines of like, 1:12:19.880 --> 1:12:23.360 oh yeah, that's interesting. That's a good theory. So, um, 1:12:23.479 --> 1:12:26.060 I think some actors just lie about it, and I 1:12:26.090 --> 1:12:28.250 guess I was kind of bending the truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:12:28.280 --> 1:12:30.110 But I think other people in the cast were worried 1:12:30.140 --> 1:12:31.430 they would be the ones to give it away. 1:12:31.460 --> 1:12:32.390 Gotcha, gotcha. 1:12:32.420 --> 1:12:33.530 Not their secret to tell. 1:12:33.560 --> 1:12:34.730 Yeah, exactly. 1:12:34.850 --> 1:12:36.610 And just finally, you're from Geelong. 1:12:36.640 --> 1:12:39.280 Your cats fan. Big time you're feeling good about. 1:12:39.310 --> 1:12:42.519 I'm a bit apprehensive. I mean, no, we're in okay. 1:12:42.550 --> 1:12:45.610 We're in okay form. But Port Adelaide in Adelaide. 1:12:45.640 --> 1:12:46.090 Yeah. 1:12:46.120 --> 1:12:47.980 Yeah that's a tough ask for any team. And they've 1:12:47.979 --> 1:12:48.700 won five in a row. 1:12:48.729 --> 1:12:49.299 They're finishing very. 1:12:49.300 --> 1:12:50.770 Strong. Maybe even more than five in a row. 1:12:50.800 --> 1:12:51.580 Yeah yeah yeah I'm. 1:12:51.580 --> 1:12:52.990 A Sydney fan. So we you know we had the 1:12:52.990 --> 1:12:55.150 great start then we freaked out. But we're doing well 1:12:55.180 --> 1:12:56.679 but excited that we're both. You know. 1:12:57.100 --> 1:12:57.549 I was I. 1:12:57.580 --> 1:12:59.860 Hoped we'd be playing you guys. I would have hoped 1:12:59.890 --> 1:13:01.810 we finished fourth, but we finished third in the end. 1:13:01.840 --> 1:13:02.380 Good luck. 1:13:02.380 --> 1:13:04.090 Thanks. You too. Thanks. Thanks, Charlie. 1:13:04.090 --> 1:13:04.840 Thank you so much for coming. 1:13:04.840 --> 1:13:05.979 On the show. Thanks, Osman. 1:13:06.010 --> 1:13:07.180 See you for the grand final. 1:13:07.210 --> 1:13:07.930 See you then. 1:13:15.640 --> 1:13:19.090 This episode of The Drop was produced by Qiwang. If 1:13:19.120 --> 1:13:21.640 you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, make 1:13:21.670 --> 1:13:24.429 sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app. Leave 1:13:24.430 --> 1:13:27.130 us a review or better yet, share the episode with 1:13:27.130 --> 1:13:27.939 a friend.