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S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a

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S1: weekly culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,

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S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of

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S1: pop culture and entertainment made with Thomas Mitchell and Meg Watson.

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S1: How're you going, pals?

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S2: Going good. I've been blasting Wonderwall for 48 hours straight.

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S2: Ready to go?

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S1: I'm excited to get into that one with you guys.

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S1: How are you doing, Thomas? Yeah, not too bad.

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S3: Lots of conflicted emotions this morning. You know, I've just

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S3: seen that Thanasi Kokkinakis has knocked out Stefanos Tsitsipas out

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S3: of the US open in round one. So you know

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S3: great for the Greek Australian. But this is kind of

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S3: the great Greek hope of tennis.

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S1: So you have a preference between the two of those.

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S1: As a Greek Australian I would assume it would be Kokkinakis.

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S3: Yeah. But I feel like Sisyphus is more likely to

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S3: go all the way I see.

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S1: I see. So we've just knocked out a Greek, and

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S1: the other Greek is probably going to lose in the

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S1: next round. Exactly.

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S3: Probably to a Russian or something.

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S1: So it feels this is like lateral Greek on Greek

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S1: violence that this, that this tournament did not need. Whoever

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S1: drew those, you know, drew those rounds had something against

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S1: you guys.

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S3: I know. Just be thankful that Kyrgios isn't involved creating

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S3: the sideshow that he does. So yeah, there's a lot

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S3: to process. But I am also very happy about the

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S3: Oasis news in news that will shock nobody. I love Oasis,

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S3: so yeah. Big week.

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S1: Yeah we are we are going to get into it.

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S1: Look it's a big show as well. It's going to

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S1: be a fun show. It's my last show with you guys.

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S1: We did think long and hard about whether we should

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S1: do something fun and wacky, like a highlight reel. Of

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S1: all the times I was wrong about various things, but

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S1: when deciding the best way to sign off, we ultimately

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S1: went with just a normal episode where we provide smart

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S1: and fun conversations about what's happening in culture that feels fitting.

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S1: So here's what's in store for today's episode. We're going

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S1: to be discussing the very stylish yet very divisive debut

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S1: film from Zoe Kravitz. It's called Blink Twice. We're going

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S1: to discuss where it fits in the landscape of what

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S1: I'm calling post-metoo thrillers. We also have the very fun,

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S1: very exciting news that Oasis, the band that, yes, as

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S1: you guessed, served as both the aesthetic and moral compass

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S1: for Thomas for a very long time. They're reforming and

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S1: they're playing, and there's going to be a lot to discuss.

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S1: We're also going to talk about industry's third episode of

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S1: this season. At the very end of this episode, I

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S1: have a special interview with Australian actor Charlie Vickers, who

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S1: plays the role of Sauron in the Lord of the

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S1: Rings The Rings of Power. It's the most watched show

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S1: in Amazon Prime Video's history. It's a pretty fun and

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S1: interesting chat. I'll say more about that at the end

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S1: of the episode. But first up, there's some news in

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S1: TV land. It looks like Ted Lasso, one of the

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S1: most popular TV shows of this streaming era we're living

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S1: in is returning for a fourth season. Deadline reported that

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S1: Apple has started locking down returning cast members in contracts

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S1: and taking up their options. It's been more than a

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S1: year since season three wrapped up. I think it's sort

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S1: of safe to say that it was a bit of

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S1: a middling third season, but the show was enormously popular,

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S1: and I think still is for I'm going to like

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S1: maybe sorry if you're offended by this, like people like

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S1: my parents really like Ted Lasso. Um, how are you

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S1: guys feeling about the state of the Ted Lasso verse?

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S1: Are you excited about the season four news? Are you indifferent?

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S1: What do you think?

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S3: I think that, like, if ever there was a case

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S3: of backed by mild demand, this is it. Like, I

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S3: feel like season three was such a kind of middling

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S3: season plagued by, I guess, like offset narratives around the show,

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S3: which weren't very positive. And then add into that a

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S3: season that generally didn't match the quality of the first

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S3: two seasons. And like you said, I think it was,

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S3: you know, a moment in time when we needed the

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S3: kind of aw, shucks Ned Flannery vibe of Ted Lasso.

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S3: And that time is over. Season three proved that. And

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S3: I guess Apple were just like, well, this is a

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S3: big product for us. People love it. You know, it's

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S3: got all these big names. We just obviously will bring

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S3: it back if we can, you know, get everything over

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S3: the line. But I just I think it is out

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S3: of whack with what the culture wants. And I suspect

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S3: should they get everyone back on board? It'll probably be

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S3: the last season. Uh, to use a football analogy. Ted

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S3: Lasso is currently in extra time, and we don't really

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S3: need a penalty shootout.

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S2: Oh my God. Gary Neville over there. Like, like everyone else,

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S2: I was on board with season one, you know, as

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S2: a fresh breath of fresh air in lockdowns and new thing.

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S2: A bit of fun. This news makes me want to

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S2: shoot myself in my face.

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S1: Oh my God, you really are spending too much time

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S1: with me. This is a real classic autism.

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S2: You've got to have a strong take, right? And I

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S2: really strongly feel this way. Season three was I watched

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S2: it out of obligation, I guess, to be some kind

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S2: of completionist, but it was like it wasn't middling. It

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S2: was awful. It was like written by I. Every episode

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S2: was like an after school special, treating its audience like

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S2: 12 year olds who didn't know what, like being gay

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S2: or revenge porn was. It was awful. And they even said,

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S2: like Jason Sudeikis said from the outset, it was a

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S2: three season story. And if they're not willing to call

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S2: it time after that season, like it's so depressing.

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S1: Hearing you talk about those plot points makes me realize

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S1: I don't think I even finished season three, which says

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S1: a lot about this show.

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S2: I mean, it literally ended with him going back to

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S2: the States and like being with his son. And the

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S2: last episode was called like, So Long, farewell. Like we're done.

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S2: We gotta call it.

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S1: I guess this is like this, this big question, right?

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S1: Because you've got creatives who have this three season arc

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S1: potentially in the middle of that. There's all this kind

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S1: of drama and rumor about Sudeikis, just always like personal

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S1: life and maybe some issues on set. We never really

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S1: got total clarity about it, but the production was was

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S1: halted and it just seems like even their vision sort

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S1: of started to fall apart because of what was going on.

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S1: That butts up against the fact that Apple, like a

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S1: publicly listed company, has stumbled onto an extremely popular show

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S1: that drove enormous amounts of subscriptions to their network. So

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S1: you can imagine that the leadership at the company are like, okay,

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S1: why are we stopping this? Even if, like, critics don't

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S1: like it, I think most normal people watched it. Please,

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S1: just like make more of this. The fact it's taken

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S1: more than a year since season three ended for us

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S1: to get this news, Sudeikis isn't confirmed. You can imagine

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S1: he's probably just like, milking them like this could end

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S1: up being one of the most lucrative TV deals for him. But, like, yeah,

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S1: I mean, both of you guys seem to be saying

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S1: the same thing. No one really wants this, do they?

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S2: I feel like some people masked because it was consistently

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S2: like the top show on Apple. And I mean, like,

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S2: how much does that say? Apple doesn't have that many shows,

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S2: but I think it is one of the ones that people,

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S2: even if you didn't have a consistent Apple subscription, you'd

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S2: sign back up and like see what's going on. And like,

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S2: I mean, I really didn't like season two either, but

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S2: I still checked back in, out of interest. Um, like

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S2: people watch it. And I suppose that counts for more

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S2: than what critics think, or the fact that it's not

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S2: like the Emmys juggernaut it was in season one.

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S3: Yeah, I mean, I kind of agree. I think it

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S3: probably is like a really smart play from Sudeikis. I

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S3: kind of got the feeling, obviously. I think what's happened

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S3: is the UK cast members, they're on different like kind

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S3: of award contracts. So they've signed up earlier. So we

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S3: obviously don't know who from the American cast will return.

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S3: But I could also see a world in which like

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S3: I mean, obviously the show is called Ted Lasso and

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S3: that's who Jason Sudeikis plays. But like, could we arguably

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S3: his character I think is like the least interesting now. Like,

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S3: could we see a version of the show where, you know,

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S3: he is either like a cameo and it's mostly about

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S3: the remaining cast members back in the UK. That's possible,

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S3: but yeah, um, I just don't know if if anyone

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S3: cares anymore.

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S2: The Ted Lasso extended universe.

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S1: Well, people people were talking about that. People were kind

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S1: of like there was discussion in TV land that Apple

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S1: was investigating spin offs about, you know, Coach Beard or

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S1: the guy that was the good guy who then became

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S1: the bad guy. I can't remember the guy's name. Yeah. Nate. Um,

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S1: and I just think that, like, even if that was

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S1: a thing, that we were all part of me, like,

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S1: I also really enjoyed the first season. The second season

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S1: a little bit less. So I wonder whether we were

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S1: all caught up in a bit of a Covid fever

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S1: dream for a little while.

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S2: I wonder that did I have brain worms? I don't know.

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S1: I think it just like it was this antidote to

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S1: the negativity and anxiety we felt. And yeah, it's like

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S1: fine to feel wholesome and watch something like that. I

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S1: watched that first season multiple times over the course of

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S1: multiple lockdowns. I think if it lands at any other

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S1: point where like, this is like a fine, kind of

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S1: weird show, like almost everything else Apple TV does or

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S1: what we see in the streaming era. So yeah, just like, okay,

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S1: this was a nice thing that happened at a dark

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S1: time for so many people. That's all it needs to be.

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S1: We don't need to do more lasso stuff.

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S2: I think Americans really like it, though. Derogatory.

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S3: It's like we, you know, we agreed unanimously that we

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S3: would stop baking sourdough. And then we also do not

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S3: need any more Ted Lasso. But anyway, I don't the

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S3: people at Apple famously don't really listen to me, which

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S3: is annoying. So they will do what they want to do.

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S1: The people on Apple Podcasts do enjoy listening to us though.

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S1: Shout out to you guys!

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S3: I've always been more of a Spotify guy, but.

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S1: Speaking of listening to stuff, Oasis.

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S4: Today is gonna be the day that they're gonna throw

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S4: it back to you. By now, you should have somehow

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S4: realized what you gotta do. I don't believe that anybody

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S4: feels the way I do about you now.

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S1: Britpop legends, famously the most fractious brother duo music relationship

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S1: in like music history. Perhaps they are reforming. It's been

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S1: a very, very, very long time since Oasis performed. It's

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S1: been 20 years since they performed in Australia. Just as

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S1: a bit of an indication as to like how long

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S1: ago these guys were last. Really hot and big and

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S1: touring together. They have announced they're going to be playing

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S1: 14 dates across the UK and Ireland and Wales in

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S1: the middle of next year. They're strongly hinting at a

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S1: global tour as well, though anything in Australia is yet

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S1: to be confirmed. I will say something. You guys know me,

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S1: listeners know me. I'm generally a pretty cynical person about

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S1: many things, and I also think there is a part

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S1: of this decision to reform that feels cynical. Like, again,

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S1: I'm sure they've been handed enormous amounts of money for this.

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S1: But all that aside, I don't feel anything other than

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S1: just like, excitement about this news. I'm not here to

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S1: like rain on People's parade and say this is all

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S1: just a big cash grab. I think this is really

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S1: nice and exciting news. I think the sheer volume of

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00:10:53,900 --> 00:10:56,929
S1: the reaction, there's all the people coming out of the

223
00:10:56,929 --> 00:10:59,900
S1: woodwork talking about what it meant to be young and

224
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S1: working class in Britain in the 90s, and what Oasis

225
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,449
S1: meant to them. Older fans, younger fans, people who have

226
00:11:05,450 --> 00:11:09,020
S1: Oasis tattoos. Thomas, whose personality was driven by wanting to

227
00:11:09,050 --> 00:11:11,240
S1: look like Liam Gallagher for such a long time. It's

228
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,540
S1: just nice and like, you know, Oasis has never been

229
00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:17,420
S1: my favourite band. But, you know, I've belted Wonderwall out

230
00:11:17,450 --> 00:11:20,900
S1: karaoke like a trillion times. That album, Champagne Supernova, like

231
00:11:20,929 --> 00:11:23,780
S1: they're all they make great songs that were very, very

232
00:11:23,780 --> 00:11:27,890
S1: reflective of that moment in kind of rock history, and

233
00:11:27,890 --> 00:11:30,829
S1: it's really exciting that they're giving it another crack. I

234
00:11:30,860 --> 00:11:33,680
S1: am really keen to know about your guys's relationship to

235
00:11:33,710 --> 00:11:36,410
S1: this band and how you feel. Thomas, I think I'm

236
00:11:36,410 --> 00:11:36,860
S1: going to start.

237
00:11:36,890 --> 00:11:38,140
S2: Yeah, you got to start with Thomas.

238
00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,780
S1: You did? I should just say that you. You posted

239
00:11:40,780 --> 00:11:43,989
S1: a photo in our work slack this morning of you

240
00:11:44,020 --> 00:11:48,100
S1: dressed as Liam Gallagher with a photo of him alongside it.

241
00:11:48,130 --> 00:11:50,709
S1: Was that for, like, a party, or did you just

242
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:52,510
S1: happen to look like him that day? And someone pointed

243
00:11:52,510 --> 00:11:54,550
S1: out that you look exactly like him?

244
00:11:54,580 --> 00:11:56,950
S3: No, it was. It was for a dress up party. Um,

245
00:11:56,980 --> 00:11:59,230
S3: but I thought it was actually pretty good in terms of,

246
00:11:59,260 --> 00:12:02,500
S3: you know, as far as celebrity lookalikes go, that was

247
00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:05,050
S3: not a bad one. Yeah. I mean, look, obviously this

248
00:12:05,050 --> 00:12:07,720
S3: is very exciting news. I think it was so funny,

249
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:09,910
S3: like watching it all play out on social media and

250
00:12:09,910 --> 00:12:12,970
S3: stuff and everyone on my feed, you know, like the

251
00:12:12,970 --> 00:12:16,930
S3: aging millennial men, the hair is maybe receding, the paunch

252
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,980
S3: is pinching, the Parker doesn't fit so tight anymore. And

253
00:12:20,980 --> 00:12:24,819
S3: yet we are excited. I obviously speak with a royal.

254
00:12:24,820 --> 00:12:26,679
S3: We there for all the sad men out there.

255
00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:26,920
S5: Who.

256
00:12:27,340 --> 00:12:30,100
S3: This brings back the crazy days of Britpop. I mean,

257
00:12:30,130 --> 00:12:31,960
S3: admittedly I was a little bit young for the height

258
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,880
S3: of Britpop, but yeah, I have been a long time

259
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,360
S3: Oasis fan. I saw them at the end. I'm just

260
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,160
S3: trying to find like when the tour was. I can't

261
00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,470
S3: remember the last time, but I saw Oasis on a

262
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:42,209
S3: tour and it was amazing.

263
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,130
S1: I think, I think it was 2005. I think that

264
00:12:44,130 --> 00:12:45,750
S1: was when they played the Enmore. Okay, cool.

265
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:47,189
S3: Yeah, right. So I must have been like, it must

266
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:47,850
S3: have been young.

267
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:48,059
S2: Yeah.

268
00:12:48,059 --> 00:12:52,920
S3: I was like, in year 11. Fucking killing it. SMP belt. Uh, yeah. Anyway,

269
00:12:52,950 --> 00:12:55,140
S3: that was a fun time for me and Oasis, but yeah,

270
00:12:55,170 --> 00:12:56,760
S3: it is very exciting. It's just I find the whole

271
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,370
S3: thing very funny, though. Like, Noel is coming off the

272
00:12:59,370 --> 00:13:02,820
S3: back of a very expensive surprise divorce. Like, it's costing

273
00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:05,610
S3: him $20 million. And then literally, it was like last

274
00:13:05,610 --> 00:13:08,040
S3: month that was announced and now the tour. So, like,

275
00:13:08,070 --> 00:13:09,960
S3: did he get on the phone to Liam, be like, look,

276
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,839
S3: I'm gonna level with you. I've taken quite the hit.

277
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,000
S3: But yeah, whether or not they will come to Australia

278
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:17,700
S3: remains to be seen. Like I on the way to

279
00:13:17,730 --> 00:13:20,400
S3: work this morning, I bumped into this guy I used

280
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,250
S3: to work with English, 44 years old. So, like, right

281
00:13:23,250 --> 00:13:26,579
S3: there in the demo and before I even like, we

282
00:13:26,610 --> 00:13:28,770
S3: were both taking out our respective earbuds and he was

283
00:13:28,770 --> 00:13:31,949
S3: like Oasis. And then I was like, oh yeah, you know,

284
00:13:31,980 --> 00:13:33,930
S3: you're excited and stuff. And he's like, yeah, I've literally

285
00:13:33,950 --> 00:13:36,290
S3: got my boys chat from home. Has been lighting up

286
00:13:36,290 --> 00:13:38,929
S3: with like, mate, are you gonna fucking fly back to Wembley?

287
00:13:38,929 --> 00:13:41,690
S3: And he's got two young kids and he's like, fucking absolutely.

288
00:13:41,690 --> 00:13:45,830
S3: So yeah, men are in crisis about Oasis, I suppose.

289
00:13:47,570 --> 00:13:50,809
S1: Well done Thomas. Um, yeah. Meg. How about how about you?

290
00:13:50,929 --> 00:13:55,309
S2: Um, I missed the first wave. I think, like Thomas,

291
00:13:55,309 --> 00:13:59,270
S2: I was slightly too young. I was also a woman, so.

292
00:13:59,300 --> 00:13:59,540
S5: That.

293
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,410
S2: Left me out of the main hype. I think back then,

294
00:14:03,410 --> 00:14:07,490
S2: in the late 90s, it was like the divisions between

295
00:14:07,490 --> 00:14:11,809
S2: pop and rock and what music women liked and men

296
00:14:11,809 --> 00:14:15,620
S2: liked or were able to like were very, quite stark. Yeah, I.

297
00:14:15,620 --> 00:14:19,370
S1: Mean, Poptimism feels like a reaction to that exact moment. Yeah.

298
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,610
S1: Men singing about whatever was so important. Yes. And women

299
00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:23,240
S1: are just like, it.

300
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,260
S2: Actually wasn't until I was 15 years old that I

301
00:14:27,260 --> 00:14:30,710
S2: had my first kind of like, oh, Oasis are this big.

302
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:33,550
S2: And it came, I was I was in a Hungry

303
00:14:33,550 --> 00:14:37,420
S2: Jack's in regional New South Wales doing karaoke on a

304
00:14:37,420 --> 00:14:42,160
S2: Friday night, and every man in the venue was singing Wonderwall.

305
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,750
S2: And I was like, I think I've heard this song,

306
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:45,700
S2: but I did not know that it was like that.

307
00:14:45,730 --> 00:14:49,360
S2: Like everyone knew the words. It was a full sing along.

308
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,609
S2: That was my first moment. But it's because, like, I

309
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,740
S2: grew up in Spice Girls land, you know? Totally. And

310
00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:56,620
S2: Spice Girls girls couldn't like Noel and Liam Gallagher. That's

311
00:14:56,620 --> 00:14:58,780
S2: just not how it worked. Yeah. And so I was

312
00:14:58,810 --> 00:15:00,700
S2: I then later got into it, of course, because then,

313
00:15:00,730 --> 00:15:03,250
S2: you know, I started dating boys and they liked it.

314
00:15:03,250 --> 00:15:04,510
S5: So it's the real.

315
00:15:04,510 --> 00:15:07,810
S3: Montague Capulet story of our times, the Oasis Spice Girl.

316
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,150
S3: But I mean, like, I think the weird thing is

317
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:13,000
S3: because it has been so long and because they famously

318
00:15:13,030 --> 00:15:15,730
S3: fight and their fights are actually pretty funny and then,

319
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,910
S3: you know, the whole like. And anyway, here's Wonderwall, meme

320
00:15:18,940 --> 00:15:21,220
S3: like Oasis as a thing has become like kind of

321
00:15:21,250 --> 00:15:24,460
S3: a punchline. But yeah, what's the story? Morning glory. And

322
00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:27,700
S3: definitely maybe they're like fucking almost no skip albums like

323
00:15:27,730 --> 00:15:30,510
S3: they are two really good records. The rest of their output,

324
00:15:30,510 --> 00:15:34,050
S3: I think is like, you know, up for debate. But 94, 95,

325
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,820
S3: they were on a heater and I can't wait to

326
00:15:35,850 --> 00:15:36,300
S3: get back there.

327
00:15:36,330 --> 00:15:39,420
S1: Yeah, I totally agree. I was flying back from Sydney

328
00:15:39,450 --> 00:15:41,729
S1: last night and I thought, why don't I just play

329
00:15:41,730 --> 00:15:44,130
S1: those two records? Their first two and I read the

330
00:15:44,130 --> 00:15:48,390
S1: entire Oasis Wikipedia page and it's so fun because you know,

331
00:15:48,390 --> 00:15:51,330
S1: that they fought and I guess, like, I didn't know

332
00:15:51,330 --> 00:15:54,360
S1: every single tour, they basically went on for ten years.

333
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,490
S1: One of them would, like, quit halfway through and just

334
00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:58,740
S1: ruin everything. So there is a big question mark over.

335
00:15:58,770 --> 00:15:59,910
S2: Boys are so emotional.

336
00:15:59,940 --> 00:16:00,660
S5: Truly.

337
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,390
S1: There is a big question mark over how many of

338
00:16:03,390 --> 00:16:06,150
S1: these 14 dates like they will actually be able to.

339
00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:06,480
S1: I mean, the.

340
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:07,320
S5: Idea of them getting to.

341
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,330
S2: Australia, I don't know. I know even the.

342
00:16:09,330 --> 00:16:10,350
S5: Flight, it's pretty.

343
00:16:10,380 --> 00:16:13,200
S1: Slim. But um, Meg, I sort of had a similar moment,

344
00:16:13,230 --> 00:16:15,600
S1: like I was a teenage boy and I did listen

345
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,910
S1: to Oasis and I did like them, but I don't

346
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:20,100
S1: think I ever like I wasn't part of a kind

347
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:22,680
S1: of like, big group of, like, guys who loved rock.

348
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,510
S1: So I listened to Oasis, but I didn't really talk

349
00:16:24,510 --> 00:16:26,190
S1: to heaps of people, but that kind of music and

350
00:16:26,190 --> 00:16:29,270
S1: I remember I might have been like 18 at a

351
00:16:29,270 --> 00:16:33,170
S1: dive bar in Copenhagen on like my first Euro backpacking trip.

352
00:16:33,170 --> 00:16:35,840
S1: And the song just came on and every single person

353
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,090
S1: belted it. People got up on chairs and tables and

354
00:16:38,090 --> 00:16:40,609
S1: started singing and I'm like, wow, that's nice. And I

355
00:16:40,610 --> 00:16:42,950
S1: think when we talk on this show about the way

356
00:16:42,950 --> 00:16:45,050
S1: that culture can bring people together and those kinds of

357
00:16:45,050 --> 00:16:49,730
S1: memories and stuff like Wonderwall, from being a genuine, joyous

358
00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:53,690
S1: song to becoming a meme to becoming a nostalgic hit,

359
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,390
S1: to now everyone being excited to seeing them sing it

360
00:16:56,390 --> 00:16:59,780
S1: and perform it. I was really lucky in 2022 when

361
00:16:59,810 --> 00:17:03,050
S1: Liam did splendour, like he played Wonderwall and you know,

362
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,420
S1: it was not the same thing, but it felt really special.

363
00:17:05,420 --> 00:17:08,840
S1: And being in the auditorium covered in mud, the sign

364
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,880
S1: had been changed to splendour in the mud and like

365
00:17:10,910 --> 00:17:14,450
S1: seeing a song that I have played for 20 years

366
00:17:14,450 --> 00:17:17,750
S1: of my life live, it was really magical. So I'm

367
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:19,400
S1: also just really happy it's happening. I'm really happy that

368
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,610
S1: so many people will hopefully get to experience this, you know,

369
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,250
S1: for the first time, or bring back some memories. They

370
00:17:25,250 --> 00:17:28,940
S1: are playing in Cardiff and Wales on my birthday. Um,

371
00:17:28,940 --> 00:17:31,490
S1: so if anyone wants to, you know, send me a

372
00:17:31,490 --> 00:17:34,640
S1: birthday gift I'm willing and able to receive. Well, you've just.

373
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,220
S3: Ruined the farewell gift that we had planned for you, so.

374
00:17:37,550 --> 00:17:40,280
S1: Well, thanks so much, man. That's really generous of you.

375
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:40,520
S1: It's not.

376
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,280
S3: It's actually tickets to see the Oasis tribute band, who

377
00:17:43,310 --> 00:17:44,990
S3: we will be speaking to this week. Keep an eye

378
00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:46,130
S3: out for the story coming soon.

379
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:47,840
S2: It's Thomas's band.

380
00:17:47,869 --> 00:17:50,270
S1: All right, let's talk about blink twice.

381
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:52,070
S6: We're going to my island for a few days.

382
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:53,180
S7: Do you guys want to come?

383
00:17:54,380 --> 00:17:55,490
S8: This is crazy.

384
00:17:57,530 --> 00:17:59,390
S9: Did we just jet off to a billionaire's island with

385
00:17:59,390 --> 00:18:02,060
S9: a bunch of strangers? Oh, he's not a stranger. He's

386
00:18:02,060 --> 00:18:02,869
S9: later king.

387
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:07,400
S1: This is the directorial debut from Zoe Kravitz. It's co-written

388
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,359
S1: by Kravitz and E.T. Feigenbaum, who's a director and wrote

389
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,660
S1: some episodes of the High Fidelity TV show that Zoe

390
00:18:14,660 --> 00:18:18,830
S1: worked on. The film stars Naomi Ackie and Channing Tatum.

391
00:18:18,859 --> 00:18:22,730
S1: The movie opens with the character of Frida, played by

392
00:18:22,730 --> 00:18:25,570
S1: Naomi Ackie. She's working as a cocktail waitress at a

393
00:18:25,570 --> 00:18:30,250
S1: gala event hosted by Slater King, a tech billionaire played

394
00:18:30,250 --> 00:18:35,080
S1: by Channing Tatum. Seems very like Jack Dorsey, Twitter influenced vibes.

395
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,310
S1: She seems infatuated with this guy. They hit it off

396
00:18:39,310 --> 00:18:42,340
S1: and he decides to invite her to his private island

397
00:18:42,340 --> 00:18:46,180
S1: for a fun, romantic getaway. And that's where most of

398
00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:49,600
S1: this movie takes place. Channing Tatum's character and a group

399
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,990
S1: of his male friends, played by quite an incredible list

400
00:18:52,990 --> 00:18:57,790
S1: of actors from various different generations Christian Slater, Simon Rex,

401
00:18:57,790 --> 00:19:00,790
S1: Haley Joel Osment. They spend the weekend partying with a

402
00:19:00,790 --> 00:19:05,140
S1: bunch of women, including Adria Arjona and Alia Shawkat. Pretty soon,

403
00:19:05,140 --> 00:19:07,899
S1: it becomes apparent that things on this island are not

404
00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:11,800
S1: quite what they seem, and the movie morphs into more

405
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,050
S1: of a thriller as these women, led by Ackie, try

406
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,720
S1: to figure out what's really going on. I want to

407
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,060
S1: have a brief chat with you guys before we get

408
00:19:19,060 --> 00:19:21,550
S1: into spoiler territory, because I think it is a hard

409
00:19:21,550 --> 00:19:24,219
S1: movie to discuss without going into detail, but let's do

410
00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:28,420
S1: some top line stuff before we get there. Overall, I

411
00:19:28,420 --> 00:19:31,929
S1: thought this movie is a perfect case study in style

412
00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:35,590
S1: over any kind of real significant substance. I think the

413
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:40,480
S1: production design, the casting, the editing style, the needle drops

414
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,970
S1: the way that Kravitz is like moving through the movie

415
00:19:42,970 --> 00:19:45,970
S1: as a director is all extremely well done. It's technically

416
00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:48,790
S1: very proficient. It's everything you'd want from a film that

417
00:19:48,790 --> 00:19:51,730
S1: clearly thinks of itself as the love child of, like,

418
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,060
S1: Promising Young Woman and Get Out, but I think because

419
00:19:55,060 --> 00:19:57,970
S1: it feels similar to those movies, the fact that thematically

420
00:19:57,970 --> 00:20:00,879
S1: it is so unlike them in the sense that I

421
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,600
S1: think it's almost kind of thematically empty kind of is

422
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:08,080
S1: an extra knock against the film. I think the Get

423
00:20:08,109 --> 00:20:11,680
S1: Out references in particular are so obvious. There's this repeated

424
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,950
S1: use of cameras and taking photos, and the way that's

425
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:17,020
S1: used to jolt people out of their reveries, that it's

426
00:20:17,020 --> 00:20:18,939
S1: like a one for one lift from Get Out just

427
00:20:18,940 --> 00:20:21,170
S1: reminds you of what a very good version of this

428
00:20:21,170 --> 00:20:25,699
S1: film could be. And sadly, I didn't really have a

429
00:20:25,700 --> 00:20:28,939
S1: great time in this movie and walked away feeling ultimately

430
00:20:28,940 --> 00:20:31,970
S1: kind of frustrated because of all the money and people

431
00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:34,190
S1: and the premise that was on screen, and it just

432
00:20:34,190 --> 00:20:37,429
S1: felt like it didn't really deliver. But I'm very interested

433
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:39,770
S1: to hear what you guys think. Oh, is this underselling it?

434
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,260
S2: He literally told me he nearly walked out of the cinema.

435
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:45,440
S1: Well, I have my views. And then I have my

436
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,990
S1: attempt to distill them into some kind of criticism.

437
00:20:48,020 --> 00:20:48,800
S5: Just be your true self.

438
00:20:48,830 --> 00:20:52,190
S1: Useful for people. Um, well, I will be more honest

439
00:20:52,190 --> 00:20:55,040
S1: about why I really didn't like the movie in the

440
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,560
S1: spoiler section, because I think so much of it has

441
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,020
S1: to do with the ideas of the movie and what

442
00:21:00,020 --> 00:21:02,360
S1: it's saying, not with like how the movie looks and

443
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,300
S1: the performances and things like that. Meg, presumably you didn't

444
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:06,080
S1: walk out of the theater.

445
00:21:06,109 --> 00:21:07,610
S5: I did not walk out of the cinema.

446
00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:11,989
S2: Um, but I look, I see your points and I

447
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:15,650
S2: agree with most of them. Um, for me, I think

448
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,629
S2: those stylistic elements held enough weight for it to be

449
00:21:19,630 --> 00:21:22,120
S2: an entertaining film. I mean, as a directorial debut, that's

450
00:21:22,150 --> 00:21:25,630
S2: actually really great from Zoe Kravitz. Like the actual sense

451
00:21:25,630 --> 00:21:28,810
S2: of the style, the aesthetic, the sound design, there's this

452
00:21:28,810 --> 00:21:32,649
S2: really like recurring theme of the champagne fizzing. Those those

453
00:21:32,650 --> 00:21:36,250
S2: details are done really well. Um, the casting as well.

454
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,100
S2: I mean, like Channing Tatum playing against type and using

455
00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:42,429
S2: his like, weaponizing his good guy charm is actually really great.

456
00:21:42,460 --> 00:21:44,080
S2: I mean, do I buy him as a tech titan?

457
00:21:44,109 --> 00:21:46,930
S2: Not really. He's like far too jacked and good looking

458
00:21:46,930 --> 00:21:51,429
S2: for that. Um, but the cast itself is so good. Like,

459
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:54,190
S2: Naomi Ackie does such a good job. Adria Arjona from

460
00:21:54,190 --> 00:21:58,000
S2: hitman fame. Like she's killing it. The. There's such good

461
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,760
S2: parts of it, I also agree. It doesn't really add

462
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,990
S2: up to a whole. That's completely satisfying. I think the

463
00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:08,710
S2: movie thinks it's a bit more thrilling than it is,

464
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:11,740
S2: just because it's signposts so many things so early on

465
00:22:11,740 --> 00:22:14,590
S2: that like, you kind of spend the first hour or

466
00:22:14,590 --> 00:22:16,920
S2: so just like essentially guessing what's going to happen. And

467
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,250
S2: you probably can. Yeah. Which is pretty disappointing. And then

468
00:22:20,250 --> 00:22:22,679
S2: I agree that there's kind of like the ideas that

469
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,989
S2: wrestles with are so good and so rich. I mean,

470
00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:28,379
S2: the idea of this island being trapped there is a

471
00:22:28,380 --> 00:22:30,119
S2: thrilling one in itself. But then when you add the

472
00:22:30,150 --> 00:22:33,480
S2: kind of Jeffrey Epstein overtones, that's a really rich area

473
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,270
S2: to mine. I don't think it quite gets there because

474
00:22:36,270 --> 00:22:39,720
S2: the characters involved are super underbaked. Like, I don't really

475
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,530
S2: understand a lot of the deeper context or characterization between

476
00:22:43,530 --> 00:22:45,600
S2: these people, so it's hard to respect the ideas that

477
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,850
S2: they're conveying. But I mean, did I have a good

478
00:22:47,850 --> 00:22:49,800
S2: time in the cinema? Yeah. Like, I mean, what are

479
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,620
S2: the standards for judging this film by a social commentary

480
00:22:52,619 --> 00:22:53,640
S2: or as a good time in the cinema?

481
00:22:53,670 --> 00:22:55,109
S1: I think the difference between you and I in this

482
00:22:55,109 --> 00:22:57,179
S1: movie is less about our interpretation of the film, and

483
00:22:57,180 --> 00:22:59,909
S1: more just like our patience and tolerance threshold.

484
00:23:00,030 --> 00:23:00,629
S5: Sure. I mean.

485
00:23:00,660 --> 00:23:02,580
S2: I totally agree on the get out comp. Like it's

486
00:23:02,580 --> 00:23:05,760
S2: really it's so overwhelming how much it wants to be.

487
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,210
S2: Get out. Yeah. Um, but even like, you see these

488
00:23:09,210 --> 00:23:12,119
S2: constant look overs to the staff who work on the island,

489
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,960
S2: it's like there's a reason the staff were like that

490
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,480
S2: on Get Out and there's not much here. Yeah, like

491
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:19,220
S2: it's quite distracting. Yeah.

492
00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:21,980
S1: And there's another movie. I think that this movie is, uh,

493
00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:24,320
S1: in the same sandbox in and in fact, is so

494
00:23:24,350 --> 00:23:26,300
S1: eerily similar to I kind of I can kind of

495
00:23:26,330 --> 00:23:28,040
S1: just don't understand why it exists, but we'll get to

496
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:30,379
S1: that in a second. Thomas, no idea what you think

497
00:23:30,380 --> 00:23:32,209
S1: about this. I haven't spoken to you since you saw it.

498
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,070
S1: What did you what did you make of blink twice?

499
00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:37,070
S3: Uh, well, I guess firstly, the standard as agreed last

500
00:23:37,070 --> 00:23:39,740
S3: week is Ticket to Paradise. So that is the film.

501
00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:42,230
S1: That also island themed adventures.

502
00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:45,650
S3: Yeah, absolutely. Less of a me too thriller. Um, yeah. Yeah.

503
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,030
S3: I was unimpressed by this movie. Um, and I even think, like,

504
00:23:50,060 --> 00:23:52,280
S3: you know what you just said, Osmond. And what's some

505
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,530
S3: of the reviews are saying, like, you know, praising Zoe

506
00:23:54,530 --> 00:23:58,220
S3: Kravitz style. She's obviously a debut director, and admittedly, it

507
00:23:58,220 --> 00:24:01,609
S3: does look good, but I'm like, man, I reckon I

508
00:24:01,609 --> 00:24:03,350
S3: could make a movie that looks pretty fucking good too.

509
00:24:03,380 --> 00:24:05,690
S3: Like if given the tools and stuff, like it.

510
00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:06,440
S1: Was the money.

511
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:08,600
S3: Yeah. Money. Like, okay, yes, she's got a good eye,

512
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:11,899
S3: but like, so do lots of people. And it looked good.

513
00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,600
S3: There was a great location. The cast are all like

514
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:17,750
S3: talented and attractive. I just don't know if you're going

515
00:24:17,780 --> 00:24:20,600
S3: to attempt a movie that's trying to say a lot

516
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:23,780
S3: of things and like tackle some pretty tricky areas. I

517
00:24:23,780 --> 00:24:26,900
S3: don't know if it's enough. So that was like, you know,

518
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:29,030
S3: kind of annoyed me if anything, because I was like, oh,

519
00:24:29,150 --> 00:24:32,300
S3: it does look good. But like, so what? Ultimately it

520
00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:34,280
S3: not only like the get out thing, but, you know,

521
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:37,550
S3: we are in this era of the MeToo thriller we've

522
00:24:37,550 --> 00:24:40,220
S3: had like Don't Worry Darling, which I also thought was probably,

523
00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:42,500
S3: you know, on the mood board for her.

524
00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:44,179
S1: And that's the movie I was talking about that I

525
00:24:44,180 --> 00:24:46,520
S1: think this movie is so similar to. Yeah, yeah.

526
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,210
S3: And it's just it's just like, I think the movie

527
00:24:50,210 --> 00:24:53,480
S3: takes you into this, like environment where it's so obvious

528
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,600
S3: that something creepy is happening. And because I think I

529
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,119
S3: was aware of all these films that have come before

530
00:24:59,150 --> 00:25:01,280
S3: in such recent history, I was like, surely we're not

531
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,470
S3: going to end up in the same place that we

532
00:25:03,470 --> 00:25:05,990
S3: have ended up previously. And, you know, lo and behold,

533
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:08,810
S3: we kind of do. And then in addition to all that,

534
00:25:08,810 --> 00:25:11,020
S3: I thought Channing was really good. But I do think,

535
00:25:11,050 --> 00:25:14,950
S3: you know, there was a slight element of like, my

536
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:16,659
S3: boyfriend is so hot. I can't wait to film him

537
00:25:16,660 --> 00:25:19,000
S3: for ages. Um, yeah, but maybe that was just my

538
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,850
S3: own take. But yeah, I don't know. Ultimately I had

539
00:25:21,850 --> 00:25:24,250
S3: such a and we haven't mentioned this one either. Like,

540
00:25:24,250 --> 00:25:26,949
S3: I had such a Saltburn experience again where I was.

541
00:25:26,980 --> 00:25:28,660
S1: Like, that was the other one I've got in my notes, man.

542
00:25:28,660 --> 00:25:30,040
S1: That's exactly it. I was like.

543
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:33,400
S3: You know, all the like, it's like the intelligent movie

544
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,859
S3: for dumb people. But like, you know, everyone's saying Saltburn

545
00:25:35,859 --> 00:25:38,800
S3: is so great, man. It's crazy. It's such an incredible twist.

546
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,620
S3: And it says so many like, amazing things that makes

547
00:25:41,619 --> 00:25:42,879
S3: you think. And then you get out of it and

548
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,770
S3: you're like, it doesn't make me think about anything. You've

549
00:25:44,770 --> 00:25:46,510
S3: just been fooled by the gimmicks.

550
00:25:47,020 --> 00:25:50,440
S2: I would also say there's like, it's not just Saltburn,

551
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,199
S2: there's like Knives Out one with Edward Norton as a

552
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,840
S2: tech titan going into an island. It's like the menu.

553
00:25:55,869 --> 00:25:59,199
S2: There's all these very recent films of like, eat the

554
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,740
S2: rich genre that just feels so recent and close to

555
00:26:02,770 --> 00:26:04,750
S2: this that this almost feels derivative, even though it is

556
00:26:04,750 --> 00:26:07,540
S2: original filmmaking. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, we say

557
00:26:07,540 --> 00:26:09,840
S2: all the time we want movies like this that take

558
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,270
S2: a real swing and have great premises and original stories,

559
00:26:12,270 --> 00:26:14,520
S2: but like, it just doesn't feel as original as it should.

560
00:26:14,550 --> 00:26:14,969
S5: Yeah, and.

561
00:26:14,970 --> 00:26:16,739
S1: I think you made this point earlier, Meg. It's like

562
00:26:16,770 --> 00:26:19,980
S1: for a movie that it considers itself a twisty thriller,

563
00:26:19,980 --> 00:26:24,390
S1: there's barely any twists. It's pretty clear something's going on

564
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:25,860
S1: and you kind of figure it out. Maybe you don't

565
00:26:25,859 --> 00:26:28,889
S1: know the exact specific nature of it, and then the

566
00:26:28,890 --> 00:26:32,460
S1: reveal happens. Like, okay, that was obviously signposted. And then

567
00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:35,520
S1: the movie progresses and progresses in that same sort of way.

568
00:26:35,730 --> 00:26:38,820
S1: And I think Saltburn is the other exact comp where

569
00:26:38,820 --> 00:26:42,600
S1: it's shiny. There's some good performances. There's some like memorable moments.

570
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:45,000
S1: There's some very iconic needle drops that people will like,

571
00:26:45,030 --> 00:26:48,270
S1: really enjoy. But again, like, you know, with Saltburn did

572
00:26:48,270 --> 00:26:51,600
S1: this to oh, here's the twist. It's like we knew that.

573
00:26:51,630 --> 00:26:53,879
S1: You kind of seem to think that we're way dumber

574
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,859
S1: than this movie you've constructed is it's.

575
00:26:55,890 --> 00:26:58,379
S2: And it's quite depressing, like seeing a lot of the

576
00:26:58,380 --> 00:27:01,710
S2: response to the film, especially just on like, Twitter or

577
00:27:01,710 --> 00:27:05,550
S2: Reddit or whatever. It's like the bar is so low.

578
00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:08,390
S1: I know I don't read the Letterboxd reviews, I think. Like,

579
00:27:08,750 --> 00:27:10,370
S1: I don't know what a letterbox has been taken over

580
00:27:10,369 --> 00:27:13,370
S1: by like 15 year olds, but just people being like, whoa,

581
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,729
S1: what a movie. And, you know, maybe one nice thing

582
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,770
S1: to say about this is that if there are like

583
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,280
S1: younger people who appreciate the style and the aesthetic of

584
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,060
S1: the film more than the lack of the themes that

585
00:27:26,060 --> 00:27:27,830
S1: seem to be bothering people like us and some of

586
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:30,980
S1: the underwriting of it. That's cool. Like, good on them

587
00:27:30,980 --> 00:27:33,409
S1: for enjoying a movie, and maybe they'll discover some of

588
00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:36,889
S1: these other films that that are the precursors to this.

589
00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:38,899
S1: But saying that, like, people might watch a movie and

590
00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:42,080
S1: then hopefully discover better movies is not much of a compliment.

591
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,880
S3: And I also reckon, like, worth adding to that list.

592
00:27:43,910 --> 00:27:46,490
S3: You mentioned the menu, Meg, which I also think is

593
00:27:46,940 --> 00:27:50,389
S3: this is really derivative, like, you know, um, they basically

594
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:53,330
S3: go to that like really Crazy Island and what's his name, the, uh,

595
00:27:53,330 --> 00:27:56,540
S3: Ralph Fiennes plays, you know, the crazy rich, you know,

596
00:27:56,540 --> 00:27:59,240
S3: he's a chef or whatever. But that is so similar.

597
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,369
S3: And also Triangle of Sadness, which I think does a

598
00:28:01,369 --> 00:28:03,230
S3: much better job of like skewering this.

599
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,590
S2: Also an island. We got to get off islands, I think.

600
00:28:05,619 --> 00:28:05,949
S5: I know it's.

601
00:28:05,950 --> 00:28:08,500
S3: Like everyone's like rich people on an island. Let's absolutely

602
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:10,990
S3: milk it until it's boring. And here it is. We arrived.

603
00:28:11,650 --> 00:28:13,659
S1: Uh, should we go into spoiler territory? I think we

604
00:28:13,660 --> 00:28:15,700
S1: have to. So if you are going to watch the

605
00:28:15,700 --> 00:28:18,919
S1: movie and you haven't seen it, skip the next 5

606
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,140
S1: to 7 minutes of this podcast. So basically, the reveal

607
00:28:23,140 --> 00:28:25,959
S1: is that the women on this island who think they're

608
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,440
S1: having a really great time are, in fact, being like,

609
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:35,290
S1: drugged and sexually assaulted quite, like intensely, repeatedly, every single

610
00:28:35,290 --> 00:28:39,040
S1: night by the men. They take this perfume or they

611
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,480
S1: spray this perfume called Desdemona, and it makes them forget

612
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,090
S1: the trauma that they've had. And this has been going

613
00:28:46,090 --> 00:28:49,360
S1: on potentially for years. We find out that Naomi Ackie's

614
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,820
S1: character has actually been on this island before. It's not

615
00:28:51,820 --> 00:28:55,690
S1: her first time, and she discovers, through the help of

616
00:28:55,690 --> 00:28:59,620
S1: the staff who work there, that there is this snake venom,

617
00:28:59,620 --> 00:29:03,180
S1: that if you drink or if you put in tequila shots,

618
00:29:03,180 --> 00:29:07,229
S1: you will overpower the perfume. So this is. It's like

619
00:29:07,230 --> 00:29:09,150
S1: a weird, like, magical thing going on.

620
00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:11,070
S5: Plot mechanics. Man. Oh my God.

621
00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:14,580
S1: Two competing like magical elixirs is very, very odd. And

622
00:29:14,580 --> 00:29:16,890
S1: so she she does realize. And she has these horrific

623
00:29:16,890 --> 00:29:20,880
S1: flashbacks to the violence being done on her. And then,

624
00:29:20,910 --> 00:29:26,340
S1: you know, the movie's most obvious theme or like, kind

625
00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:29,760
S1: of idea it's got is that women should band together

626
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:35,640
S1: and work together to kill terrible men, which is what happens.

627
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,640
S1: And then the bit that I guess, like was the

628
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,670
S1: most surprising twist is the very, very, very end of

629
00:29:41,670 --> 00:29:44,940
S1: the movie where we're back in the room where the

630
00:29:44,940 --> 00:29:47,670
S1: gala was originally held and you think, oh wow, like

631
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:50,370
S1: Channing Tatum's character survived, what's going on here? And then

632
00:29:50,370 --> 00:29:53,520
S1: the reveal is that it's Naomi Ackie's character, Frida, who

633
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,430
S1: is the CEO of this tech company. And Channing Tatum

634
00:29:56,430 --> 00:30:02,090
S1: is kind of her lobotomized boyfriend husband. and the idea

635
00:30:02,090 --> 00:30:05,780
S1: there being kill all the bad men, but the ringleader

636
00:30:05,780 --> 00:30:08,870
S1: just marry him and keep him as your boy toy.

637
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:11,750
S1: Because that is a cool thing to do. I think,

638
00:30:11,780 --> 00:30:14,060
S1: like when all of that was going on, this is

639
00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:17,840
S1: where my levels of frustration started to grow. Because what

640
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,150
S1: is the idea in the movie? Drugging and assaulting women

641
00:30:20,150 --> 00:30:25,910
S1: is bad. Sure. Obviously no disagreement from anyone. They're not

642
00:30:25,910 --> 00:30:30,170
S1: a particularly, like, compelling or interesting idea for a film,

643
00:30:30,170 --> 00:30:33,110
S1: I would say, and especially not one that doesn't go

644
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:36,410
S1: anywhere beyond that. Now that we're in that sort of

645
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,990
S1: spoiler space, what did you guys think of all the

646
00:30:38,990 --> 00:30:41,780
S1: reveals and do you think, am I missing something? Is

647
00:30:41,780 --> 00:30:45,740
S1: there a point being made about the nature of the patriarchy,

648
00:30:45,770 --> 00:30:48,170
S1: the way it should be dealt with that does exist

649
00:30:48,170 --> 00:30:49,459
S1: beyond what's on the surface?

650
00:30:49,460 --> 00:30:50,000
S5: I think the.

651
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,900
S2: Film would like to think it has a big theme

652
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:58,760
S2: about cancel culture, because Channing Tatum's character had been found

653
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,280
S2: out for doing something before, though we don't really know

654
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,910
S2: what was revealed previously, and the film starts with him

655
00:31:04,910 --> 00:31:07,730
S2: having the kind of, you know, Instagram apology. He's having

656
00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:10,820
S2: an interview about it, and I suppose it's playing with

657
00:31:10,820 --> 00:31:14,060
S2: ideas of do these men change? What will a culture

658
00:31:14,060 --> 00:31:18,650
S2: forgive those kind of things? But without that deeper context

659
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,200
S2: of what he did or even like, I mean, he

660
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,890
S2: was absolved in this interview with this person. He was

661
00:31:24,890 --> 00:31:28,010
S2: like being exalted for what a new man he is.

662
00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:29,900
S2: But then by the end of the film, Channing Tatum's

663
00:31:29,900 --> 00:31:32,930
S2: doing this really cringeworthy speech about how he can just

664
00:31:32,930 --> 00:31:35,000
S2: say sorry a million times and it's just not worth it.

665
00:31:35,030 --> 00:31:37,790
S2: It's like, what? Weren't you? Didn't this work? I don't

666
00:31:37,790 --> 00:31:40,100
S2: understand what's going on. I mean, even that dialogue was

667
00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:45,290
S2: so cringeworthy. There's this terrible speech about there's this younger

668
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,170
S2: guy on the island who supposedly did nothing to help them,

669
00:31:48,170 --> 00:31:49,760
S2: even though he has a black eye. So I have

670
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,290
S2: to assume he stepped in at one point, right?

671
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,690
S1: It actually gets kind of confusing as to who on

672
00:31:53,690 --> 00:31:56,240
S1: the island is, at which stage of which poison, like

673
00:31:56,270 --> 00:31:59,290
S1: who's been perfumed and who's been snake venom.

674
00:31:59,350 --> 00:32:00,340
S2: Yeah, like.

675
00:32:00,370 --> 00:32:02,200
S1: I think maybe that guy wasn't aware of what was

676
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:02,740
S1: going on.

677
00:32:02,770 --> 00:32:04,240
S5: No, I think he was.

678
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:05,860
S2: But then on that final night.

679
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:06,459
S5: I thought he was.

680
00:32:06,460 --> 00:32:07,900
S3: Being assaulted too. Hence.

681
00:32:07,930 --> 00:32:08,740
S1: Yeah, that was my.

682
00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:09,490
S5: Yeah.

683
00:32:09,910 --> 00:32:10,480
S2: I'm glad.

684
00:32:10,750 --> 00:32:12,940
S5: That's possible. I don't know. Sure. Yeah.

685
00:32:12,970 --> 00:32:14,680
S1: I'm not sure they know. I think they lost track.

686
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:15,520
S5: Of what was going on.

687
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,240
S2: I feel like with a lot of these MeToo movies,

688
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,960
S2: there's these very big themes that creators are taking on

689
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,590
S2: in time with the culture. But by the time the

690
00:32:26,590 --> 00:32:30,220
S2: films come out or even they're filming, discourse has moved

691
00:32:30,220 --> 00:32:33,100
S2: and then plots get changed and it just feels stale

692
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:35,140
S2: in this weird way, or it feels like it's pandering

693
00:32:35,170 --> 00:32:37,630
S2: to a moment that's passed. I think there's a lot

694
00:32:37,630 --> 00:32:39,400
S2: of that in this movie, and it's something that happened

695
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,350
S2: with promising young women as well. I mean, if that

696
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:43,360
S2: had that film had come out even a year prior,

697
00:32:43,390 --> 00:32:46,360
S2: it would have had a massive impact. I mean, another

698
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,320
S2: film with a confusing final act twist. Um, but yeah,

699
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:52,990
S2: it's hard to glean an overall message from this other

700
00:32:52,990 --> 00:32:58,740
S2: than women should stick Together. Um, but yeah, it's not

701
00:32:58,740 --> 00:32:59,220
S2: that inspiring.

702
00:32:59,250 --> 00:33:00,870
S1: You were talking about the Spice Girls, you know, a

703
00:33:00,870 --> 00:33:01,890
S1: while ago, but that's, you know.

704
00:33:01,980 --> 00:33:02,310
S5: Yeah, but that.

705
00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:02,940
S2: Was the 90s.

706
00:33:02,970 --> 00:33:03,900
S5: So. Yeah. Yeah.

707
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,070
S1: Um, how about you, Thomas?

708
00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:07,979
S3: Yeah, I think kind of like we said before, it

709
00:33:07,980 --> 00:33:11,880
S3: just felt like the whole time you were being prepared

710
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,150
S3: for a big twist. And then it went. And like,

711
00:33:15,180 --> 00:33:16,620
S3: even in my head, I think I was like, please

712
00:33:16,620 --> 00:33:20,160
S3: don't be the lowest common denominator twist that we've seen

713
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,650
S3: in this recent rash of films exactly like this. And

714
00:33:22,650 --> 00:33:25,650
S3: then it was and that made it even like that,

715
00:33:25,650 --> 00:33:28,440
S3: made it so much more disappointing. Like I just yeah,

716
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:30,630
S3: I kind of in that, you know. Yeah. The really

717
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:33,000
S3: obvious message is that these things are awful and men

718
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,970
S3: can be really, really bad. But like, I just don't

719
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,820
S3: know what else you're supposed to take away from the

720
00:33:38,820 --> 00:33:41,190
S3: the movie. Like the reveal that all of these men

721
00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:43,890
S3: who are all quite rich and powerful are doing, like,

722
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,110
S3: really heinous things at night, but it just didn't. There

723
00:33:46,110 --> 00:33:49,020
S3: was no like, thesis beyond that for the movie. And

724
00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:52,080
S3: so when that's all you get, um, it's hard to

725
00:33:52,110 --> 00:33:55,880
S3: think that this was a smart idea, and I actually

726
00:33:55,910 --> 00:33:57,740
S3: kind of do think the cancel culture thing was perhaps

727
00:33:57,740 --> 00:33:59,960
S3: the most interesting part of it. Like, even though that

728
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:03,170
S3: speech was a bit cringeworthy, the whole idea of like,

729
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,300
S3: you know, a powerful man doing something bad. We don't

730
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:08,000
S3: know what it was. But then, you know, getting public

731
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,520
S3: forgiveness and but really, you can't forgive. You can only forget,

732
00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:12,380
S3: like there was, there was like a kernel of something

733
00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:14,900
S3: interesting there, but instead they ended up just going for like,

734
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:17,750
S3: let's have heaps of, like, crazy drums and people running

735
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:20,089
S3: around and there'll be a big reveal and, you know,

736
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,460
S3: like it's just abandoned what may have been interesting and

737
00:34:22,460 --> 00:34:24,530
S3: instead went back to, I guess, what is kind of

738
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,500
S3: become a, you know, paint by numbers for this genre

739
00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:28,910
S3: that we're living in, which is that, you know, the

740
00:34:28,910 --> 00:34:32,240
S3: big reveal is all these men are awful. And, you know, like,

741
00:34:32,270 --> 00:34:36,710
S3: women should be terrified, which. Yeah, again, interesting idea, but

742
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:38,870
S3: executed in a way that makes it just feel a

743
00:34:38,870 --> 00:34:40,490
S3: bit like, oh God, here we go again.

744
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,200
S2: It's the same way that I mean, that's how I

745
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,770
S2: felt about Don't Worry Darling as well. And spoilers, I guess. But,

746
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,050
S2: you know, if that film had gone harder on why

747
00:34:48,050 --> 00:34:50,000
S2: the men are doing that or the culture that led

748
00:34:50,030 --> 00:34:52,840
S2: up to it. Those kind of like Andrew Tate figures.

749
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,820
S2: That would have been a more interesting movie, but it

750
00:34:54,820 --> 00:34:56,890
S2: just feels like they're kind of pulling their punches in

751
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,680
S2: that space and just opting for these like very set

752
00:34:59,710 --> 00:35:02,620
S2: set and forget thrills. It's like, I think we should

753
00:35:02,620 --> 00:35:04,419
S2: expect more from films like this at this stage.

754
00:35:04,450 --> 00:35:05,500
S3: And that's why I don't know if either of you,

755
00:35:05,590 --> 00:35:08,020
S3: either of you guys seen the Royal Hotel? The Julia

756
00:35:08,050 --> 00:35:09,820
S3: Garner film filmed in Australia?

757
00:35:09,850 --> 00:35:10,779
S1: I have, yeah, like.

758
00:35:10,810 --> 00:35:14,110
S3: That to me is so basically like, you know, it's

759
00:35:14,110 --> 00:35:17,049
S3: these two young like backpackers, I think. What are they,

760
00:35:17,050 --> 00:35:18,850
S3: American or English? And they go to work in like

761
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,779
S3: an outback pub, kind of like, um, you know, in

762
00:35:22,780 --> 00:35:25,810
S3: the middle of nowhere. Very rare for anyone to rock up.

763
00:35:25,810 --> 00:35:27,970
S3: That's not, you know, like a working part of the community.

764
00:35:27,969 --> 00:35:30,819
S3: And it kind of instead of there's no like kind

765
00:35:30,820 --> 00:35:33,879
S3: of fantastical elements of snake venom and poisons and perfumes

766
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,430
S3: and stuff, but it's just the whole thing, like ratchets

767
00:35:36,430 --> 00:35:39,640
S3: up this tension. You know, lots of men like hot

768
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:42,969
S3: blooded men who were, like, drinking and have no interaction

769
00:35:42,969 --> 00:35:44,830
S3: with women and don't know how to act. And but

770
00:35:44,860 --> 00:35:46,839
S3: like the way it kind of treats, you know, the

771
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,270
S3: men who appear to be like, kind of nice guys

772
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:51,810
S3: and then their roles shift, and it's all grounded in

773
00:35:51,810 --> 00:35:54,810
S3: such a reality that makes it way more terrifying, because

774
00:35:54,810 --> 00:35:57,390
S3: it's like men that you know and see at pubs

775
00:35:57,390 --> 00:35:59,910
S3: and stuff, and I feel like that tackled the exact

776
00:35:59,910 --> 00:36:02,759
S3: same areas in a way that was so much more affecting.

777
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,189
S3: And at the end there's no real big twist or anything.

778
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:08,100
S3: It's just a survival story, really. But at the end

779
00:36:08,130 --> 00:36:10,530
S3: you walk away, I guess, like, well, I walked away

780
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,230
S3: thinking so much more about, like, you know, in air

781
00:36:13,260 --> 00:36:15,689
S3: quotes like toxic masculinity and all of that stuff because

782
00:36:15,690 --> 00:36:17,339
S3: it was handled in a way that was so much

783
00:36:17,340 --> 00:36:20,310
S3: real and raw as opposed to like big flip reveal

784
00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:22,170
S3: and like, oh, this is what's happening at night. And

785
00:36:22,170 --> 00:36:24,660
S3: these people are all complete, like double characters and stuff.

786
00:36:24,780 --> 00:36:26,549
S1: Mm. Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned that. So that was

787
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:29,670
S1: directed by Kitty green, who's an Australian director. And her

788
00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:32,730
S1: movie before that was The Assistant, which came out in 2019,

789
00:36:32,730 --> 00:36:36,240
S1: which I think is maybe my favorite of the films

790
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,580
S1: in what we could call the post-metoo genre. I mean,

791
00:36:38,580 --> 00:36:41,400
S1: this one in particular, it's set in a production office

792
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,100
S1: about a young assistant, and it is very much like

793
00:36:44,100 --> 00:36:47,310
S1: a take on the Weinstein sort of dynamic. It's a

794
00:36:47,310 --> 00:36:50,880
S1: really extraordinary film that is worth watching. And I guess

795
00:36:50,910 --> 00:36:52,470
S1: like the timing has to do with this as well.

796
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:55,080
S1: I mean, I think the assistant still holds up right now,

797
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,310
S1: but Kravitz started writing blink Twice under the working title

798
00:36:59,310 --> 00:37:03,150
S1: of Pussy Island back in 2017. So we're right. Like,

799
00:37:03,180 --> 00:37:06,600
S1: post the Trump election in the middle of the Weinstein stuff.

800
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,780
S1: The Epstein stuff is happening. And perhaps if the movie

801
00:37:09,780 --> 00:37:13,230
S1: had come out in 2017, we might have a different view.

802
00:37:13,230 --> 00:37:15,210
S1: But also the movie didn't come out in 2017. The

803
00:37:15,210 --> 00:37:18,270
S1: movie was in development for many, many, many years. So

804
00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:20,220
S1: it's not really an excuse to not be good. But

805
00:37:20,219 --> 00:37:21,930
S1: there are there are like, I think there are a

806
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,330
S1: few films in this space that tackle these things well.

807
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,810
S1: And you mentioned one, Thomas. I mentioned one, there's two

808
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,630
S1: more I wanted to to, to shout out women talking,

809
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:32,460
S1: which came out, I think, either last year or the

810
00:37:32,460 --> 00:37:36,000
S1: year before. Um, very, very interesting. Like kind of basically

811
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,580
S1: interior chamber drama about women experiencing horrific things happening to

812
00:37:41,580 --> 00:37:44,910
S1: them and what that kind of using that as a

813
00:37:44,910 --> 00:37:48,260
S1: frame to discuss power relationships and gender dynamics in society.

814
00:37:48,260 --> 00:37:51,800
S1: And then in terms of both like conversations around assault

815
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,820
S1: and cancel culture, to like Cate Blanchett, like that movie.

816
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,460
S1: Maybe it's hard to compare blink twice to it, because

817
00:37:58,460 --> 00:38:01,940
S1: that is by an experienced director and an experienced actress.

818
00:38:01,969 --> 00:38:06,440
S1: It is so complicated and sharp and nuanced and fascinating

819
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,470
S1: and makes you think days, weeks, months, years after you've

820
00:38:09,469 --> 00:38:11,360
S1: watched the movie. So the good news is that there

821
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,050
S1: are like really interesting films tackling this stuff. Blink twice

822
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,489
S1: is just not in that category.

823
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:17,210
S5: I think the difference.

824
00:38:17,210 --> 00:38:19,549
S2: With those films are like, Tara is also a film

825
00:38:19,550 --> 00:38:24,080
S2: about cancel culture. Yeah. But it's grounded in character and plot.

826
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,420
S2: And so you sit with this person and their ideas

827
00:38:26,420 --> 00:38:28,790
S2: and their world, and you come to an understanding of it.

828
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:31,460
S2: And maybe that forms one perspective. Maybe it's challenged to

829
00:38:31,460 --> 00:38:33,650
S2: the next scene. This one is more interested in kind

830
00:38:33,650 --> 00:38:36,500
S2: of the buzzwords. Yeah. And like, I mean, really, what

831
00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:39,560
S2: do we know about Jack's character? He's got some vague

832
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,890
S2: childhood trauma. Like, I'm so sick of that storyline. Yeah.

833
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,620
S2: We should really know more than that. If we're going

834
00:38:44,650 --> 00:38:47,440
S2: to have a proper critique of these men and why

835
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,050
S2: they do that. I think there was like another kernel

836
00:38:50,050 --> 00:38:53,739
S2: of something more interesting with the Geena Davis character, where

837
00:38:53,739 --> 00:38:58,900
S2: she has this snake venom potion and remembers what's going

838
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:01,210
S2: on but doesn't want to, and there's this altercation where

839
00:39:01,210 --> 00:39:04,750
S2: she's like, I didn't want to remember. And then it's

840
00:39:04,750 --> 00:39:06,190
S2: a fight between her and the other woman. And like,

841
00:39:06,219 --> 00:39:09,430
S2: that's interesting casting because Geena Davis is obviously like Thelma

842
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:13,089
S2: and Louise icon like feminist film women sticking together. There's

843
00:39:13,090 --> 00:39:16,180
S2: a lot of loaded casting in that. But when it's

844
00:39:16,180 --> 00:39:19,330
S2: reduced to just one scene and like one throwaway thing,

845
00:39:19,330 --> 00:39:21,760
S2: when it could have been this interesting dialogue about a

846
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,540
S2: genuine rift that happened between women of different generations during MeToo,

847
00:39:25,540 --> 00:39:27,940
S2: where it's like all the women saying it's easier to

848
00:39:27,969 --> 00:39:29,529
S2: just like, move on from these things. Why do you

849
00:39:29,530 --> 00:39:31,900
S2: have to dig it all up? And younger women wanting

850
00:39:31,930 --> 00:39:34,930
S2: to remember and fight for it and like, avenge what

851
00:39:34,930 --> 00:39:36,880
S2: has happened? Like, that's an interesting idea too. But it

852
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,890
S2: just played for one scene, like.

853
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:40,600
S1: Yeah, it just seems like we need something there to

854
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:43,590
S1: show that women can also be complicit in these things. Yeah,

855
00:39:43,620 --> 00:39:45,660
S1: I think you're right, I think. And I wonder whether

856
00:39:45,690 --> 00:39:47,820
S1: some there is more to this movie that that we

857
00:39:47,820 --> 00:39:50,370
S1: just don't get to see. And it's changed its name.

858
00:39:50,370 --> 00:39:53,580
S1: It's been in quite a long production cycle. There's been

859
00:39:53,580 --> 00:39:57,330
S1: all sorts of like stories about complications around release. Geena

860
00:39:57,330 --> 00:40:00,660
S1: Davis is a very well known, very successful, very talented actress.

861
00:40:00,690 --> 00:40:02,940
S1: The idea of her signing on for a movie where

862
00:40:02,940 --> 00:40:05,700
S1: she essentially has one very brief scene where she says

863
00:40:05,700 --> 00:40:09,210
S1: stuff before being killed seems unlikely to me. I wonder

864
00:40:09,210 --> 00:40:11,370
S1: whether there are maybe some bits and pieces to this

865
00:40:11,370 --> 00:40:13,770
S1: film that are on the cutting room floor that might

866
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,970
S1: have made it make more sense. But that's just entirely speculation.

867
00:40:18,090 --> 00:40:21,390
S3: Yeah, I get the feeling there was some studio fingerprints

868
00:40:21,390 --> 00:40:24,930
S3: on this. You've got, like, you know, a first time director,

869
00:40:24,930 --> 00:40:27,630
S3: even though she's a famous, like, I wonder what the

870
00:40:27,630 --> 00:40:30,390
S3: power dynamic there was like, if, you know, the studio

871
00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:31,859
S3: is saying, like, we need to change this, we need

872
00:40:31,890 --> 00:40:34,230
S3: to change that. She probably feels like she didn't have

873
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:36,600
S3: much of a choice, and that was definitely something. I

874
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,299
S3: walked away thinking, like, I wonder if there is a

875
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:42,480
S3: director's cut version of this that looks slightly different. Um,

876
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,940
S3: but yeah, like there were some parts I enjoyed. It's

877
00:40:44,940 --> 00:40:47,670
S3: always good to see someone vaping on screen. Um, and

878
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,030
S3: Channing was hitting that jewel pretty hard. And also, like

879
00:40:51,060 --> 00:40:53,219
S3: I must say, even though I knew, like, where it

880
00:40:53,219 --> 00:40:55,620
S3: was going and stuff, I did have the conversation with

881
00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:56,820
S3: my wife. I watched it and I was like, I

882
00:40:56,820 --> 00:40:59,850
S3: wonder how long obviously before I knew the really horrific stuff.

883
00:40:59,850 --> 00:41:01,560
S3: And I was like, how long could I really, like,

884
00:41:01,590 --> 00:41:04,740
S3: enjoy this island? Like, because the day times looked pretty sick.

885
00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:07,620
S3: Like they were by the pool. There's good music on.

886
00:41:07,620 --> 00:41:10,530
S3: Everyone's doing like MDMA and stuff. Obviously it all takes

887
00:41:10,530 --> 00:41:13,109
S3: a horrific turn, but how long could you go before

888
00:41:13,110 --> 00:41:15,060
S3: you're like, am I partying too many days in a

889
00:41:15,060 --> 00:41:15,540
S3: row now?

890
00:41:15,570 --> 00:41:16,950
S1: I know, I mean, like, how much can you just

891
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:18,810
S1: be in a pool? Like, you know that it's just

892
00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:21,240
S1: there's a time limit to that. The last thing I

893
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:22,440
S1: want to say, and I don't want to do a

894
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,859
S1: whole big, boring, nepo baby thing, but I think Zoe

895
00:41:25,860 --> 00:41:29,670
S1: Kravitz is an accomplished actress. But, you know, there's obviously

896
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:32,430
S1: helping hands in this industry the way that she's been

897
00:41:32,430 --> 00:41:34,050
S1: able to be an accomplished actress, the way that she's

898
00:41:34,050 --> 00:41:36,330
S1: been able to make a movie that costs $20 million,

899
00:41:36,330 --> 00:41:40,000
S1: I think stems from her background in the lucky experiences

900
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,069
S1: she's had in life, and also it gives her a

901
00:41:42,070 --> 00:41:45,490
S1: very particular sense of what issues are when it comes

902
00:41:45,489 --> 00:41:47,380
S1: to women. I think that's why we sort of end

903
00:41:47,410 --> 00:41:50,590
S1: on that girlboss note of like, I'm in charge now

904
00:41:50,620 --> 00:41:54,340
S1: sort of thing, and that's not her fault. On a

905
00:41:54,340 --> 00:41:58,000
S1: personal level, but on a structural level, the budget for

906
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,430
S1: the assistant, which, like I said, I think is one

907
00:42:00,430 --> 00:42:03,040
S1: of the best movies to tackle this stuff was a

908
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,690
S1: $1.7 million, right? There's Julia Garner, Matthew Macfadyen. It has

909
00:42:07,690 --> 00:42:10,690
S1: a really good cast, and it's a really interesting give.

910
00:42:10,690 --> 00:42:14,330
S1: People like Kitty green, give them 20 lots of $1

911
00:42:14,330 --> 00:42:16,629
S1: million to make movies like this. And I think that's

912
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:19,150
S1: also why I started to get so frustrated. It's like

913
00:42:19,180 --> 00:42:21,549
S1: there are people who think they've got interesting things to

914
00:42:21,550 --> 00:42:24,459
S1: say who maybe don't, but they are afforded enormous amounts

915
00:42:24,460 --> 00:42:26,770
S1: of opportunities to do so. And then there are other

916
00:42:26,770 --> 00:42:29,740
S1: really amazing directors and writers who are trying their best

917
00:42:29,739 --> 00:42:32,260
S1: and making amazing stuff that barely anyone has ever heard of.

918
00:42:32,260 --> 00:42:34,720
S1: And that's not Zoe Kravitz fault or Channing Tatum fault.

919
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,140
S1: That's just the way that Hollywood and the world work,

920
00:42:37,140 --> 00:42:39,239
S1: but I thought it was worth pointing out.

921
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:41,219
S3: It's like the drop versus Mamma mia!

922
00:42:42,570 --> 00:42:45,540
S5: We have to cut that bit. We're not cutting that bit.

923
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:55,830
S10: Meg, are.

924
00:42:55,830 --> 00:42:57,990
S1: You up to season three of industry yet?

925
00:42:58,020 --> 00:43:01,109
S2: Let me tell you, I am not. But I can't

926
00:43:01,110 --> 00:43:02,310
S2: wait to hear your takes.

927
00:43:02,340 --> 00:43:04,920
S1: I appreciate that you have indulged us the last few

928
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:06,240
S1: weeks as we have done this.

929
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,100
S2: I love it. It would be a good introduction when

930
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:08,940
S2: I finally get there.

931
00:43:08,969 --> 00:43:12,660
S1: I like had an out of body experience when I

932
00:43:12,660 --> 00:43:15,960
S1: read the episode description on binge for this. It was

933
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:21,960
S1: something like Harper, Yasmin and Robert travel to Switzerland to

934
00:43:21,989 --> 00:43:25,830
S1: take part in a high stakes climate economic summit. And like,

935
00:43:26,070 --> 00:43:30,180
S1: I was like, Holy shit, these guys are doing the

936
00:43:30,180 --> 00:43:33,270
S1: thing that succession did so well. And I think probably

937
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:35,790
S1: at this point, the succession comparisons are getting a little

938
00:43:35,820 --> 00:43:39,239
S1: bit tired, but it's clear the two guys, Mickey and Conrad,

939
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:42,450
S1: who wrote this show, did their homework. They watched succession.

940
00:43:42,450 --> 00:43:46,319
S1: They looked at what made that show work and deconstructed

941
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,360
S1: it and have taken this in a similar direction, which

942
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,390
S1: is like, we've got these characters and I think unlike succession,

943
00:43:51,390 --> 00:43:55,050
S1: we've got sort of more fun, more silly, more sometimes

944
00:43:55,050 --> 00:43:59,340
S1: a little bit cartoonish skins, kinds of characters. What if

945
00:43:59,340 --> 00:44:02,640
S1: we just take them, put them in an entirely different environment,

946
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,880
S1: make them interact with the people they don't normally interact with,

947
00:44:05,910 --> 00:44:08,670
S1: throw wacky things in their direction, and have a couple

948
00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:12,180
S1: of obligatory shots of PJs. Isn't that going to be

949
00:44:12,180 --> 00:44:15,060
S1: a sick episode? And it was, wasn't it, Thomas?

950
00:44:15,090 --> 00:44:15,540
S5: It really.

951
00:44:15,540 --> 00:44:18,360
S3: Was. I was kind of like, you know, quietly disappointed

952
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,420
S3: not to see Alexander Skarsgard, like, descending.

953
00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:24,480
S1: There was like another Norwegian sort of guy who came in.

954
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:26,730
S3: There was a there was a Nordic energy, not quite.

955
00:44:26,730 --> 00:44:27,569
S5: As like, are there any like.

956
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,489
S2: Big name cameos in the show yet? If they're really

957
00:44:29,489 --> 00:44:30,690
S2: channeling succession?

958
00:44:30,690 --> 00:44:33,230
S1: I think that's one thing we are kind of missing.

959
00:44:33,260 --> 00:44:36,200
S3: Yeah, yeah. No, they don't really do that. Um, but, yeah,

960
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,380
S3: it was an incredible episode. Uh, you know, I saw

961
00:44:39,380 --> 00:44:41,630
S3: somewhere that one of the critics wrote that, you know,

962
00:44:41,660 --> 00:44:44,090
S3: this is a show that is less interested in financial

963
00:44:44,090 --> 00:44:47,660
S3: deals and is now just about each character's pathologies. And

964
00:44:47,660 --> 00:44:49,880
S3: that is so true, which is also something you could

965
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,240
S3: apply to succession in the later seasons. But just this

966
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,819
S3: is such a great character study now of these, you know,

967
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,460
S3: kind of people who are circling each other and no

968
00:44:58,460 --> 00:45:00,740
S3: one is able to get out of their own way

969
00:45:00,739 --> 00:45:03,560
S3: and their own neuroses, but they're also desperate to take

970
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,170
S3: down the people who they claim to be close to.

971
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,299
S3: And in the next scene, they will be supporting those people. Like,

972
00:45:08,330 --> 00:45:12,680
S3: it's just such a great kind of character analysis of people. Um,

973
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:14,930
S3: obviously amazing to be back on a private jet. Um,

974
00:45:14,930 --> 00:45:16,610
S3: I actually do think it's been, I guess in terms

975
00:45:16,610 --> 00:45:19,400
S3: of big name cameos, Kit Harington being added to this

976
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,030
S3: season as Jon Snow, you know, in the world of

977
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:23,630
S3: Jon Snow.

978
00:45:23,660 --> 00:45:24,319
S5: Whoa.

979
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:26,120
S1: Whoa, Jon Snow.

980
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:28,100
S3: It's super out of context. But no, he's actually been

981
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:30,049
S3: a great addition. Um, you know, just to kind of

982
00:45:30,070 --> 00:45:34,660
S3: like like, like be a cat amongst the pigeons. Um,

983
00:45:34,660 --> 00:45:37,420
S3: but I just thought this episode was amazing. And also

984
00:45:37,420 --> 00:45:39,250
S3: one of the like, this is what's so great about

985
00:45:39,250 --> 00:45:41,920
S3: industry and also succession. But like it is, this was

986
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,440
S3: the funniest episode of industry I reckon I've seen in

987
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,810
S3: a long time because they're going to a climate change,

988
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,500
S3: you know, like I guess conference to try and sell

989
00:45:50,530 --> 00:45:53,440
S3: green energy ideas and you know, there's all these great

990
00:45:53,469 --> 00:45:55,629
S3: like kind of like little just one liners about how

991
00:45:55,630 --> 00:45:57,850
S3: it's an unnaturally warm winter. So there's no snow. And

992
00:45:57,850 --> 00:46:00,310
S3: Eric's really disappointed about that. So good. And you know

993
00:46:00,340 --> 00:46:03,100
S3: another big investor is like, do I care if Venice

994
00:46:03,130 --> 00:46:06,040
S3: is underwater by 2075? It's a shithole in the summer.

995
00:46:06,070 --> 00:46:08,290
S3: Like it's just, you know, like these awful people saying

996
00:46:08,290 --> 00:46:10,390
S3: awful things. And that's what we watch TV for.

997
00:46:10,420 --> 00:46:12,040
S1: And, you know, the other bit and this is like

998
00:46:12,070 --> 00:46:14,440
S1: extremely just like specific to me. So they make a

999
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,900
S1: reference that the meeting they're going to is a cop meeting,

1000
00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:19,660
S1: which is the conference of parties to the United Nations

1001
00:46:19,660 --> 00:46:22,660
S1: Framework for the Convention on Climate Change, which are those

1002
00:46:22,660 --> 00:46:25,390
S1: big meetings where they discuss treaties and whatever. I actually

1003
00:46:25,390 --> 00:46:29,670
S1: attended one in a 2019, uh, Copenhagen. And in fact,

1004
00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:32,340
S1: it was on that trip that I was in a

1005
00:46:32,340 --> 00:46:35,339
S1: bar in Copenhagen. We all sang Wonderwall. Um, so I've

1006
00:46:35,340 --> 00:46:37,500
S1: been to these things and, you know, they, they they

1007
00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:40,560
S1: left me feeling profoundly cynical about the way that, like

1008
00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:44,819
S1: these big international forums that largely like they they make

1009
00:46:44,820 --> 00:46:47,820
S1: all these jokes about how, you know, if this is

1010
00:46:47,820 --> 00:46:51,150
S1: about diplomats are coming and negotiating deals, but really, that's

1011
00:46:51,150 --> 00:46:53,189
S1: all a side show because all the really important stuff

1012
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:56,760
S1: are these business guys doing deals and just how kind

1013
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,760
S1: of much of a joke that makes of the climate system,

1014
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,969
S1: and that certainly the experience of many people, including me,

1015
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,430
S1: who witnessed these things up close. So as well as,

1016
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:08,669
S1: as you said, Thomas, being an incredible deep dive into

1017
00:47:08,670 --> 00:47:11,610
S1: the pathology of these sorts of folk, it still manages

1018
00:47:11,610 --> 00:47:15,510
S1: to land like quite significant and meaty blows on things

1019
00:47:15,510 --> 00:47:20,070
S1: as significant as global capitalism and the climate change framework

1020
00:47:20,070 --> 00:47:22,530
S1: we are all relying on. And that's a cool thing

1021
00:47:22,530 --> 00:47:24,780
S1: for a show to do. And on top of that,

1022
00:47:24,780 --> 00:47:27,290
S1: and yeah, sorry if I say this too much, but

1023
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,610
S1: it's the last time I'm going to get a chance

1024
00:47:28,610 --> 00:47:31,189
S1: to say on this podcast. It is a fun hang show. Like,

1025
00:47:31,190 --> 00:47:33,680
S1: I love hanging out with these guys. It is just

1026
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,860
S1: so interesting when you know there's an amazing sauna scene

1027
00:47:36,860 --> 00:47:38,750
S1: with your guy Joel Kim Booster. You know, I don't

1028
00:47:38,750 --> 00:47:41,000
S1: know if that counts as like a famous cameo, but

1029
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,060
S1: you know him. You like him. He's in a sauna.

1030
00:47:44,060 --> 00:47:48,770
S1: He's completely nude. He is at a moment stroking himself

1031
00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:51,380
S1: in a, in a, in a kind of example of

1032
00:47:51,410 --> 00:47:53,810
S1: trying to get dominance on this other guy. It is

1033
00:47:53,810 --> 00:47:56,209
S1: so funny. It is. It is so cool. The show

1034
00:47:56,210 --> 00:47:59,600
S1: just keeps throwing us random stuff like that. Um, yeah.

1035
00:47:59,630 --> 00:48:03,410
S1: Please everyone. My last, my last wish on the drop

1036
00:48:03,410 --> 00:48:05,300
S1: is to get people into this show, because if you

1037
00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:08,149
S1: all watch it, we will hopefully get way more stuff

1038
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:08,630
S1: like it.

1039
00:48:08,660 --> 00:48:10,550
S3: Yeah. And I think it does a really like it

1040
00:48:10,550 --> 00:48:13,520
S3: does something really good in TV shows that especially once

1041
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,799
S3: you are three seasons in one, they start to like

1042
00:48:15,830 --> 00:48:18,109
S3: mix up the dynamics and they pair up people that

1043
00:48:18,110 --> 00:48:21,470
S3: haven't previously been together. And you like see that it works.

1044
00:48:21,469 --> 00:48:23,750
S3: So I love that we're getting like both Eric and

1045
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:26,140
S3: Robert in this episode. Like, ah, a kind of pair,

1046
00:48:26,380 --> 00:48:28,360
S3: you know? Unfortunately, because of a mix up at the

1047
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,130
S3: front desk of their very fancy hotel, they have to

1048
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,589
S3: share a bed and like, they become a funny, odd couple.

1049
00:48:32,590 --> 00:48:34,959
S3: And then you've got this weird dynamic between Eric and Yasmin,

1050
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,630
S3: which is like, is there something sexual going on or

1051
00:48:37,630 --> 00:48:39,970
S3: what's happening there? And like, I guess the show has

1052
00:48:39,969 --> 00:48:42,879
S3: always hinged on the Eric and Harper dynamic. You know,

1053
00:48:42,910 --> 00:48:46,300
S3: it's such a loaded, complex relationship where he was the

1054
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:48,279
S3: mentor and she was the mentee. And then it's kind

1055
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,049
S3: of continued to change. And they haven't even been in

1056
00:48:50,050 --> 00:48:52,660
S3: a scene together this season. And then we finally get

1057
00:48:52,660 --> 00:48:55,569
S3: at the end of this episode, the most, like, Shakespearean

1058
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,750
S3: kind of comeuppance from Harper, where she, you know, she's

1059
00:48:58,780 --> 00:49:00,969
S3: kind of walking out of the conference as the head

1060
00:49:00,969 --> 00:49:04,090
S3: of this new fund, and they engage Pierpoint to look

1061
00:49:04,090 --> 00:49:07,060
S3: after them. And she, like, demands that he look her

1062
00:49:07,060 --> 00:49:08,739
S3: in the eye after he's just had a bender with

1063
00:49:08,739 --> 00:49:11,620
S3: a prostitute. Like, it was just incredible. Like, you know,

1064
00:49:11,650 --> 00:49:14,950
S3: it does all these things so well and it has

1065
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:17,950
S3: figured out its characters so well. It knows exactly when to, like,

1066
00:49:17,980 --> 00:49:19,690
S3: push them or pull them back or who to pair

1067
00:49:19,690 --> 00:49:21,969
S3: them with. It really is some of the best TV

1068
00:49:21,969 --> 00:49:24,150
S3: and I'm so glad that I pushed you onto it. Osmond.

1069
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,350
S1: Uh, also, um, that that scene, like, you know, Harper

1070
00:49:28,380 --> 00:49:31,290
S1: getting her revenge on the actress who plays her. Mihaela

1071
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,080
S1: posted a screenshot, I think, before the episode came out

1072
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,080
S1: of just like her smile looking at Eric and the

1073
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,780
S1: music was DMX's X gon give it to you. And

1074
00:49:39,780 --> 00:49:42,360
S1: I'm like, that's fun, that's cool. I like when the

1075
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:47,610
S1: worlds collide. Um, all right, time to wrap up with

1076
00:49:47,610 --> 00:49:51,720
S1: our Impress Your Friends segment where we share something we've watched,

1077
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:55,680
S1: listen to, read, or consumed in the world of culture. Meg,

1078
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,989
S1: we have talked for a long time and haven't heard

1079
00:49:57,989 --> 00:49:58,860
S1: your voice.

1080
00:49:58,890 --> 00:50:00,360
S5: What what.

1081
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:01,500
S1: What do you want to what do you want to

1082
00:50:01,500 --> 00:50:02,279
S1: recommend for us this.

1083
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:02,760
S5: Week?

1084
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,819
S2: Uh, my Impress Your Friends may not impress your friends

1085
00:50:05,820 --> 00:50:11,129
S2: because it's incredibly dorky. Um, but it's a new ABC show,

1086
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:15,210
S2: which is Guy Montgomery's guy spelling bee, which is literally

1087
00:50:15,210 --> 00:50:20,190
S2: just a spelling bee on television. Um, guy Montgomery is

1088
00:50:20,190 --> 00:50:23,910
S2: a New Zealand comedian. He's brought the show over from

1089
00:50:23,910 --> 00:50:26,640
S2: New Zealand. It previously had a season that ran in

1090
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,310
S2: New Zealand last year before that. He actually ran it.

1091
00:50:29,310 --> 00:50:31,080
S2: I remember a couple of years back he ran it

1092
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,250
S2: at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival. So basically it involves

1093
00:50:35,250 --> 00:50:38,100
S2: a few local comedians just getting up and acting as

1094
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:42,060
S2: the spelling bee participants. It's way more entertaining than it sounds.

1095
00:50:42,060 --> 00:50:44,790
S2: They do different challenges. They spell people's name from the audience,

1096
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:48,630
S2: which isn't as fraught as it sounds. Um, it's a

1097
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:52,590
S2: really good example of a show that's like this very

1098
00:50:52,590 --> 00:50:55,380
S2: simple concept. You just get talented people in the room

1099
00:50:55,380 --> 00:50:57,690
S2: and they make something really special out of it. He's

1100
00:50:57,690 --> 00:51:00,780
S2: also joined by Aaron Chen, who is an Australian comedian,

1101
00:51:00,780 --> 00:51:02,819
S2: that a lot of people in the industry have been like,

1102
00:51:02,850 --> 00:51:04,710
S2: that guy needs to have a TV show. Why doesn't

1103
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,360
S2: Chen have an ABC show? This is kind of it. Um, yeah.

1104
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,220
S2: I think it's just a really great way. I mean,

1105
00:51:11,250 --> 00:51:12,839
S2: it's one of those perfect shows. If you're a fan

1106
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,200
S2: of something like Taskmaster, which is like this short, silly,

1107
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,060
S2: fun show you can digest in a small amount of

1108
00:51:18,060 --> 00:51:21,930
S2: time As a new parent. That's a really important facet

1109
00:51:21,930 --> 00:51:24,900
S2: of my TV watching. At this point, I only really

1110
00:51:24,900 --> 00:51:27,690
S2: have capacity for things 20 minutes at a time. But

1111
00:51:27,690 --> 00:51:30,390
S2: it's also, I mean, in the interest of getting people

1112
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:33,029
S2: to make shows like this, this is totally one to support.

1113
00:51:33,030 --> 00:51:35,969
S2: People need to be streaming shows like this. So, you know,

1114
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,630
S2: Australian comedians can also get things like this off the

1115
00:51:39,630 --> 00:51:41,970
S2: ground without having runs on the board in New Zealand.

1116
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,430
S2: And it does feature a whole lot of up and

1117
00:51:44,430 --> 00:51:47,609
S2: coming Australian comedians as well. As you know, of course,

1118
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:49,650
S2: Tom Gleeson is on the first episode, it's ABC and

1119
00:51:49,650 --> 00:51:52,170
S2: he has to be. But you know, the second episode

1120
00:51:52,170 --> 00:51:55,290
S2: also has like Urvi Majumdar, who is someone I hadn't

1121
00:51:55,290 --> 00:51:57,239
S2: heard of, but she apparently has like a fresh blood

1122
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,480
S2: pilot that like, you know, doesn't get the airtime. It should.

1123
00:52:00,510 --> 00:52:02,339
S2: And it's nice to see her up on screen getting

1124
00:52:02,370 --> 00:52:03,450
S2: getting the word out.

1125
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,239
S1: Yeah, really great to see the ABC taking a risk,

1126
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,819
S1: which is something we've often, you know, chided them for.

1127
00:52:08,969 --> 00:52:11,040
S1: I've not seen the show, but I think Guy Montgomery

1128
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,590
S1: and Aaron Tran are very, very, very funny. So thank

1129
00:52:13,620 --> 00:52:13,859
S1: you for that.

1130
00:52:13,890 --> 00:52:16,529
S2: Aaron in particular is very good. He's just doing like

1131
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,880
S2: the full off the beach stick and a lot of

1132
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:20,890
S2: prop comedy, which also sounds bad, but just trust me,

1133
00:52:20,890 --> 00:52:21,460
S2: it's good.

1134
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,280
S1: I do trust you. I do trust you. Thomas. What

1135
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:25,209
S1: have you got? Uh, look.

1136
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,880
S3: I thought I would theme this one, and I am

1137
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,730
S3: recommending that you impress your friends by getting them to

1138
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:37,239
S3: revisit Oasis Supersonic, the 2016 documentary produced by Asif Kapadia.

1139
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:40,419
S3: Obviously the director of Amy. It's on Amazon Prime, and

1140
00:52:40,420 --> 00:52:43,060
S3: if you haven't actually seen it, it is an incredible documentary.

1141
00:52:43,060 --> 00:52:45,339
S3: It kind of revisits the band at the height of

1142
00:52:45,370 --> 00:52:47,799
S3: their 90s fame. It got, you know, like first person

1143
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,319
S3: interviews with Noel and Liam, who were not on speaking

1144
00:52:50,350 --> 00:52:52,390
S3: terms at the time it was made, as well as

1145
00:52:52,420 --> 00:52:54,640
S3: like all the people in their life. Um, but look,

1146
00:52:54,670 --> 00:52:57,609
S3: obviously we are in this, you know, Oasis renaissance right now.

1147
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,740
S3: Everyone's going to be talking about them for a long time.

1148
00:52:59,770 --> 00:53:01,600
S3: Probably bored of it by the time the tour rolls around.

1149
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,910
S3: But if you were keen to kind of be like, okay,

1150
00:53:03,940 --> 00:53:06,520
S3: I may as well can't fight this Oasis return, so

1151
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,140
S3: let me get back in the zone. It is actually

1152
00:53:08,140 --> 00:53:10,900
S3: a really well made documentary, and the music is great,

1153
00:53:10,900 --> 00:53:13,330
S3: and it will confirm whether or not you are excited

1154
00:53:13,330 --> 00:53:15,960
S3: about the Oasis return or if you are just going

1155
00:53:15,989 --> 00:53:16,830
S3: to tune out.

1156
00:53:16,860 --> 00:53:21,330
S1: Well timed, well timed recommendation. Um, mine is a film

1157
00:53:21,330 --> 00:53:25,259
S1: called Strange Darlings. It's out right now is a really

1158
00:53:25,260 --> 00:53:29,190
S1: interestingly constructed film. It's kind of, I think, a little

1159
00:53:29,219 --> 00:53:31,710
S1: bit of a nod to to Tarantino, not really in

1160
00:53:31,739 --> 00:53:35,520
S1: sort of the themes necessarily, or the, the hyper violence,

1161
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,580
S1: but in terms of these kind of like six seemingly

1162
00:53:38,610 --> 00:53:41,339
S1: unlinked chapters that are told that all end up kind

1163
00:53:41,340 --> 00:53:46,410
S1: of collapsing in on themselves. It's this really electric, sharp, thrilling,

1164
00:53:46,410 --> 00:53:48,750
S1: serial killer movie. I really don't want to say too

1165
00:53:48,750 --> 00:53:50,489
S1: much about the plot, because I think the less you

1166
00:53:50,489 --> 00:53:52,530
S1: know going into this one, the better. One of the

1167
00:53:52,530 --> 00:53:55,350
S1: really interesting things about this movie, it's shot on 35mm

1168
00:53:55,350 --> 00:53:59,160
S1: film by Giovanni Ribisi, the very prolific actor who's making

1169
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,739
S1: his debut as a cinematographer and, like most of the

1170
00:54:01,739 --> 00:54:04,860
S1: media I've seen, is focused on that because, like a

1171
00:54:04,890 --> 00:54:06,630
S1: lot of the people involved in the production are not

1172
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:09,900
S1: super famous. Uh, it's just really good. And if you

1173
00:54:09,900 --> 00:54:12,150
S1: want to see a good movie that is out that

1174
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:14,480
S1: is interesting will make you think and looks different to

1175
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,060
S1: a lot of the other stuff out there. Strange darlings.

1176
00:54:17,090 --> 00:54:20,089
S1: Give it a go. All right, so just before we

1177
00:54:20,090 --> 00:54:22,580
S1: wrap up, it is my last episode on the drop.

1178
00:54:22,580 --> 00:54:27,560
S1: I did some thank yous last week, but just to reiterate,

1179
00:54:27,590 --> 00:54:29,840
S1: you know, we can't make this show without our wonderful

1180
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:34,700
S1: producers Kai Cormack, David, and of course, the wonderful Ruby Schwartz,

1181
00:54:34,700 --> 00:54:38,870
S1: who was our lead producer during the succession episodes, which

1182
00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:40,640
S1: I think are a big part of the reason so

1183
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,130
S1: many of you listening have jumped on board, and it

1184
00:54:43,130 --> 00:54:45,530
S1: was really fun to do that. One of the most

1185
00:54:45,530 --> 00:54:47,660
S1: fun things I think I've managed to do in my

1186
00:54:47,660 --> 00:54:50,450
S1: time in Australian media. And of course, it started with

1187
00:54:50,450 --> 00:54:54,320
S1: the three of us, Meg, Thomas and myself. Meg, you

1188
00:54:54,350 --> 00:54:55,910
S1: went to have a family, which is very exciting.

1189
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:56,960
S5: And then very rude of me.

1190
00:54:57,110 --> 00:54:59,360
S1: Mel jumped on board and it's very sad that Mel's

1191
00:54:59,390 --> 00:55:01,310
S1: been unwell, but she's on the mend. I know I

1192
00:55:01,310 --> 00:55:02,960
S1: keep saying that, but she's definitely on the mend.

1193
00:55:02,989 --> 00:55:03,500
S5: Definitely.

1194
00:55:03,500 --> 00:55:07,460
S2: Sounds like you have her locked on an island somewhere that.

1195
00:55:09,230 --> 00:55:12,250
S1: Um. I don't have her locked in an island somewhere. Um,

1196
00:55:12,250 --> 00:55:15,220
S1: but yeah, huge, huge, huge thanks to to you guys

1197
00:55:15,219 --> 00:55:18,400
S1: and to Mel for making this the funnest part of

1198
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:19,719
S1: my job every week.

1199
00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:22,239
S3: I'm obviously very sad you're leaving, and it's been the

1200
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,360
S3: highlight of all of our weeks, I would say. And

1201
00:55:25,390 --> 00:55:28,660
S3: you know, my first regular podcast ever and it's been

1202
00:55:28,660 --> 00:55:30,790
S3: such a pleasure and honor to do it alongside you, Osman.

1203
00:55:30,790 --> 00:55:33,310
S3: And I know I speak for Mel as well, who

1204
00:55:33,310 --> 00:55:35,380
S3: is very sad that she can't be here today. Um,

1205
00:55:35,380 --> 00:55:38,590
S3: that it's been such a great experience and one of

1206
00:55:38,590 --> 00:55:41,020
S3: the one of the true work highlights in a long career.

1207
00:55:41,020 --> 00:55:43,359
S3: So we will miss you. And I don't doubt that

1208
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,460
S3: the listeners will miss you and you're one of a kind.

1209
00:55:45,489 --> 00:55:47,560
S3: So I was thinking about whether or not there's an

1210
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,670
S3: appropriate Oasis song, whether it's we can choose between Stop

1211
00:55:51,670 --> 00:55:53,770
S3: Crying Your Heart Out or Don't Look Back in Anger.

1212
00:55:53,770 --> 00:55:57,069
S3: But I think that Live Forever is perhaps the most applicable.

1213
00:55:57,820 --> 00:56:03,670
UU: Wasting things. I'll never see you. I'm gonna live forever. I'm.

1214
00:56:06,790 --> 00:56:14,670
UU: Gonna live for Don't fall for it.

1215
00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:18,359
S1: Ah, that's really nice. And you mentioned our listeners and

1216
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,660
S1: I should say that since we announced the news last week, the, uh,

1217
00:56:21,660 --> 00:56:25,470
S1: amount of listeners who have contacted me on all sorts

1218
00:56:25,469 --> 00:56:28,290
S1: of platforms, people have left multiple five star reviews saying

1219
00:56:28,290 --> 00:56:29,370
S1: how sad they are. I mean, you could have done

1220
00:56:29,370 --> 00:56:31,319
S1: that while I was around, you know? You know, the

1221
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,630
S1: fact that our review rating dropped to 4.3 is the

1222
00:56:33,630 --> 00:56:37,770
S1: reason why I'm leaving, frankly. Um, but no, but thanks

1223
00:56:37,770 --> 00:56:40,350
S1: to this, this has been such a lovely community of people.

1224
00:56:40,350 --> 00:56:43,140
S1: And thank you for those words, Thomas. Um, before we

1225
00:56:43,140 --> 00:56:45,060
S1: wrap up, make sure to stick around for my conversation

1226
00:56:45,060 --> 00:56:47,670
S1: with Charlie Vickers, one of the stars of The Rings

1227
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:50,520
S1: of Power. It was a super interesting chat with him

1228
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,440
S1: about taking on the role of one of the most

1229
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:56,700
S1: notorious villains in literary and cinematic history, and the process

1230
00:56:56,700 --> 00:56:59,340
S1: of working on one of the most expensive TV shows

1231
00:56:59,340 --> 00:57:03,299
S1: ever made. Thomas, Mel. Thomas, Meg. Wow.

1232
00:57:03,810 --> 00:57:06,569
S5: I was going to. We can keep fitting. Way to end.

1233
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:07,109
S5: We can keep.

1234
00:57:07,110 --> 00:57:07,470
S1: That one.

1235
00:57:07,469 --> 00:57:07,859
S5: In.

1236
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:10,410
S2: It happens a lot. Listeners.

1237
00:57:10,710 --> 00:57:11,670
S1: Thanks heaps guys.

1238
00:57:11,700 --> 00:57:12,870
S5: Thanks. Thank you.

1239
00:57:20,550 --> 00:57:22,980
S1: Charlie Vickers, thank you so much for joining the show.

1240
00:57:22,980 --> 00:57:24,480
S11: Thank you Osman, thanks for having me.

1241
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,730
S1: In The Rings of Power, you play one of the

1242
00:57:26,730 --> 00:57:30,300
S1: most notorious, well known literary villains of all time. I've

1243
00:57:30,300 --> 00:57:33,180
S1: read that you actually didn't know that you were playing

1244
00:57:33,180 --> 00:57:36,060
S1: Sauron until you were well into production on the first season.

1245
00:57:36,090 --> 00:57:37,020
S1: Is that the case?

1246
00:57:37,050 --> 00:57:40,260
S11: Yeah, I think I'd been in New Zealand for over

1247
00:57:40,260 --> 00:57:45,390
S11: six months and we'd had a hiatus because of Covid.

1248
00:57:45,390 --> 00:57:47,550
S11: And then once the hiatus finished, we were about to

1249
00:57:47,580 --> 00:57:51,930
S11: start filming episode three, and the showrunners called me into

1250
00:57:51,930 --> 00:57:54,390
S11: their office and said, yeah, this character Halbrand, that you've

1251
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:57,480
S11: been playing, he's actually Sauron.

1252
00:57:58,500 --> 00:57:59,580
S1: Of all the reveals.

1253
00:57:59,580 --> 00:58:00,570
S5: To have. Exactly.

1254
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:03,900
S11: And I was just like, what? I was a bit suspicious. Yeah.

1255
00:58:03,930 --> 00:58:06,050
S11: I had an inkling that maybe there was more to

1256
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,540
S11: Halbrand than met the eye.

1257
00:58:08,570 --> 00:58:11,330
S1: I know that some of your fellow cast members weren't

1258
00:58:11,330 --> 00:58:14,210
S1: even sure the nature of the show when they were

1259
00:58:14,210 --> 00:58:17,180
S1: auditioning for it. Is that something that's like, relatively common?

1260
00:58:17,180 --> 00:58:19,160
S1: Was that your experience on this, or did you have

1261
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,140
S1: a bit more Intel as to what this was about?

1262
00:58:21,170 --> 00:58:24,830
S11: No, that was that was um, my experience as well.

1263
00:58:24,830 --> 00:58:27,530
S11: I think it is quite common, particularly shows with big IP,

1264
00:58:27,980 --> 00:58:32,720
S11: that they don't release much information. So the sides, the

1265
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:37,070
S11: scenes that we got, they're all dummy scenes to audition

1266
00:58:37,070 --> 00:58:39,950
S11: with and the character names were all altered. So I

1267
00:58:39,950 --> 00:58:43,520
S11: had no idea. I actually auditioned for Elrond originally, but

1268
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,490
S11: I didn't know it was Elrond. It was only in hindsight. Yeah, right.

1269
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,120
S11: So yeah, I think I did maybe seven auditions. Um,

1270
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:53,720
S11: so it was a long process. They really very thorough.

1271
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,570
S1: And one of those auditions, I think, involved you performing

1272
00:58:56,570 --> 00:59:02,300
S1: Milton's Paradise Lost, which is the quintessential angel falling from heaven. Yeah,

1273
00:59:02,330 --> 00:59:04,420
S1: that that that must have been fun. Did that give

1274
00:59:04,420 --> 00:59:06,160
S1: you a bit of an inkling as to where the

1275
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:07,060
S1: show and character was going?

1276
00:59:07,090 --> 00:59:10,480
S11: That was why I was a bit suspicious when of

1277
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,050
S11: the Halbrand character, because on the surface, he's a villager

1278
00:59:14,260 --> 00:59:18,640
S11: with this kind of hidden nobility, a past that was

1279
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,980
S11: connected to a line of kings. But then I was like,

1280
00:59:21,010 --> 00:59:26,110
S11: I just auditioned with Paradise Lost, playing Satan. And then

1281
00:59:26,140 --> 00:59:28,150
S11: I did a Richard the Third speech. So I was like,

1282
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,630
S11: there must be a dark element to this character.

1283
00:59:31,660 --> 00:59:33,220
S1: It's either a succession spin off or.

1284
00:59:33,340 --> 00:59:35,560
S11: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

1285
00:59:35,590 --> 00:59:38,440
S1: What kind of relationship, if any, did you have with

1286
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:42,460
S1: the the books, the franchise before getting involved on The

1287
00:59:42,460 --> 00:59:43,120
S1: Rings of Power?

1288
00:59:43,150 --> 00:59:47,350
S11: I, um, I was a fan of Lord of the rings,

1289
00:59:47,350 --> 00:59:50,920
S11: but pretty much through the Peter Jackson films. I mean,

1290
00:59:50,950 --> 00:59:55,240
S11: they popularized it for the world, I think, and I

1291
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,820
S11: was definitely the target audience. I was I was a

1292
00:59:57,820 --> 01:00:01,300
S11: kid or an adolescent when all that came out, and

1293
01:00:01,380 --> 01:00:04,320
S11: I was pretty obsessed with those films, but I'd never

1294
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:08,880
S11: read anything beyond that. I'd never read The Hobbit, I'd

1295
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,840
S11: never read the trilogy or The Silmarillion, and I played

1296
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:16,830
S11: the PlayStation games as well. They were very intense, very difficult.

1297
01:00:16,830 --> 01:00:18,180
S11: I remember them being really difficult.

1298
01:00:18,180 --> 01:00:19,500
S5: I remember the same thing. Yeah.

1299
01:00:19,830 --> 01:00:22,110
S11: But it wasn't until I was cast that I just thought,

1300
01:00:22,170 --> 01:00:24,210
S11: you know, I've got to sit down and read everything. Yeah.

1301
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:25,470
S11: And there's a lot of reading.

1302
01:00:25,470 --> 01:00:27,810
S1: I feel like the world is split into normal people

1303
01:00:27,810 --> 01:00:31,260
S1: and like Silmarillion guys, like people that read the appendices

1304
01:00:31,260 --> 01:00:33,240
S1: and know all that sort of stuff. Once you did

1305
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:35,820
S1: get into that, you're like, okay, this is helpful for

1306
01:00:35,820 --> 01:00:38,580
S1: my character. And or are you just, like, overwhelmed by

1307
01:00:38,580 --> 01:00:40,260
S1: the sheer amount of lore and history?

1308
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,330
S11: I think that's I think that's it's a bit of both.

1309
01:00:42,330 --> 01:00:47,220
S11: You will never have read everything that Tolkien has written,

1310
01:00:47,220 --> 01:00:50,580
S11: because there is so much lore and mythology around the

1311
01:00:50,580 --> 01:00:53,880
S11: whole thing. But I definitely became one of those Silmarillion guys.

1312
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:56,790
S11: And it's it's I can see why people get so

1313
01:00:56,820 --> 01:01:02,780
S11: obsessed with that, because it's such a vast and detailed

1314
01:01:02,780 --> 01:01:05,390
S11: world that he created and some of the stories like. Yeah,

1315
01:01:05,390 --> 01:01:06,860
S11: there are parts of that book that are a bit

1316
01:01:06,860 --> 01:01:08,959
S11: of a slog to get through. But there are other

1317
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,980
S11: parts which are just incredible, and I found it particularly

1318
01:01:12,980 --> 01:01:17,630
S11: useful because it it's Sauron's whole story, and it's different

1319
01:01:17,630 --> 01:01:23,240
S11: to the Sauron that has been popularized. He is walking around, talking,

1320
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,610
S11: interacting with people. And yeah.

1321
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,130
S1: In the films you mentioned, Sauron is this huge presence.

1322
01:01:28,130 --> 01:01:30,650
S1: He's largely a disembodied burning eye. There's a couple of

1323
01:01:30,650 --> 01:01:33,380
S1: scenes with him being played. I think Sally Baker, the

1324
01:01:33,380 --> 01:01:36,920
S1: New Zealand actor in the Suits of Armor for you,

1325
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,350
S1: is it is it like helpful that it's a bit

1326
01:01:39,350 --> 01:01:42,320
S1: of a blank slate to play him as quote unquote

1327
01:01:42,350 --> 01:01:44,870
S1: human like as a physical person? Or is it a

1328
01:01:44,870 --> 01:01:47,510
S1: little bit daunting because, you know, when everyone knows where

1329
01:01:47,510 --> 01:01:49,010
S1: this is going, you're going to end up being one

1330
01:01:49,010 --> 01:01:51,380
S1: of the most famous evil eyes of all time. How

1331
01:01:51,380 --> 01:01:53,840
S1: does that impact the way that you approach making the show?

1332
01:01:53,870 --> 01:01:56,090
S11: I don't see it so much as a daunting thing,

1333
01:01:56,090 --> 01:01:59,260
S11: because I think when you join a show like this,

1334
01:01:59,260 --> 01:02:01,780
S11: I had to learn to let go of expectation of

1335
01:02:01,780 --> 01:02:05,080
S11: people because everyone has their opinion and you take the

1336
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:07,720
S11: ones that you think are really useful to your development

1337
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:13,450
S11: of the character. But I loved the process of developing

1338
01:02:13,450 --> 01:02:17,710
S11: him throughout this time period because it's a real opportunity,

1339
01:02:17,740 --> 01:02:21,490
S11: because he is. Tolkien wrote of him in this time

1340
01:02:21,490 --> 01:02:26,350
S11: period that he is a character that wants to heal

1341
01:02:26,350 --> 01:02:30,400
S11: and rehabilitate and restore middle earth, and that's kind of

1342
01:02:30,430 --> 01:02:32,470
S11: the way I approach the character. I wanted to find

1343
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:35,740
S11: an emotional through line and something that like, I know

1344
01:02:35,740 --> 01:02:39,790
S11: he's a villain and that's that is the purpose that

1345
01:02:39,790 --> 01:02:42,640
S11: he serves in this story. But I never really found

1346
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,610
S11: it that helpful for me to look at him from

1347
01:02:45,610 --> 01:02:48,760
S11: that point of view as an actor. So I kind

1348
01:02:48,790 --> 01:02:51,820
S11: of wanted to find the elements of his character that

1349
01:02:51,820 --> 01:02:56,130
S11: I could really connect to. And I that was, I

1350
01:02:56,160 --> 01:03:00,270
S11: felt an enormous privilege to have the opportunity to bring

1351
01:03:00,270 --> 01:03:03,810
S11: this part of him to life, particularly as Tolkien wrote

1352
01:03:03,810 --> 01:03:08,910
S11: in such detail and cared about Sauron. It seems, he wrote,

1353
01:03:08,940 --> 01:03:11,940
S11: like all these incarnations of this character. I mean, he

1354
01:03:11,940 --> 01:03:15,330
S11: was originally a giant house cat called Tisvilde.

1355
01:03:15,630 --> 01:03:16,110
S5: Seriously?

1356
01:03:16,140 --> 01:03:19,080
S11: Yeah, that was his first incarnation of Sauron. And then,

1357
01:03:19,110 --> 01:03:23,490
S11: you know, stories like Beren and Luthien and you see

1358
01:03:23,490 --> 01:03:27,030
S11: the development of the character in Tolkien's mind. And he,

1359
01:03:27,060 --> 01:03:31,950
S11: he wrote, um, these, these letters which were being collated,

1360
01:03:31,950 --> 01:03:35,100
S11: and they're personal letters. They're professional letters. But in them,

1361
01:03:35,250 --> 01:03:39,600
S11: he kind of details his thoughts about his own characters

1362
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,030
S11: and the purpose they serve in his stories. So I

1363
01:03:42,030 --> 01:03:47,100
S11: found that really helpful. So overall, it's been a massive privilege.

1364
01:03:47,130 --> 01:03:48,810
S1: Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, it makes sense because

1365
01:03:48,810 --> 01:03:50,640
S1: one thing we everyone knows about this character is he's

1366
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,100
S1: a villain. So the fact that, like, you can add

1367
01:03:53,100 --> 01:03:55,350
S1: something to that that gives you some. It's so interesting

1368
01:03:55,380 --> 01:03:57,570
S1: to me when there's a character who is like an antagonist,

1369
01:03:57,570 --> 01:03:59,550
S1: but you follow them, you still want to care about them,

1370
01:03:59,550 --> 01:04:01,770
S1: and weirdly, you end up feeling sympathy for them. At

1371
01:04:01,770 --> 01:04:06,120
S1: moments like the season premiere, season two premiere is very graphic,

1372
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,490
S1: violent scene. That's like a bit of a prologue to it.

1373
01:04:08,790 --> 01:04:10,830
S1: This guy is like, like I said, one of the

1374
01:04:10,830 --> 01:04:12,720
S1: most evil literary characters of all time. But you still

1375
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:14,610
S1: feel pretty bad when those guys are going to town

1376
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:14,820
S1: on it.

1377
01:04:14,850 --> 01:04:15,210
S12: Oh yeah.

1378
01:04:15,210 --> 01:04:17,580
S11: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that is it. And it's

1379
01:04:17,610 --> 01:04:20,760
S11: that maybe there will be people that feel sympathetic towards

1380
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,390
S11: him as as the show goes on. But I kind

1381
01:04:24,390 --> 01:04:26,940
S11: of when I think about it, I think it's more

1382
01:04:26,940 --> 01:04:30,840
S11: of a thing of I just hope people enjoy watching

1383
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:34,470
S11: him do his thing. It's kind of like there's an

1384
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:38,370
S11: element of anti-hero about him in that you kind of

1385
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:42,870
S11: are taking pleasure as an audience member, watching him manipulate

1386
01:04:42,870 --> 01:04:47,370
S11: and and navigate his way through middle earth. And yeah,

1387
01:04:47,370 --> 01:04:49,650
S11: that's something that I'm looking forward to seeing when I

1388
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:51,510
S11: watch the rest of the episodes.

1389
01:04:51,950 --> 01:04:53,420
S1: Can you talk to me a little bit about the

1390
01:04:53,420 --> 01:04:56,210
S1: physical demands of this particular role? Like in both seasons,

1391
01:04:56,210 --> 01:04:58,730
S1: there seems to be a lot of scenes involving water.

1392
01:04:58,730 --> 01:05:00,320
S1: I think you guys were like on a raft for

1393
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,720
S1: a very long period of time. And then the character

1394
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:07,010
S1: also goes through a pretty significant physical transformation in season two.

1395
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:09,650
S1: And I heard somewhere that you wore weights to sort

1396
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:11,690
S1: of change the way that you moved. Can you talk

1397
01:05:11,690 --> 01:05:13,490
S1: to me about all the kind of the physical stunt

1398
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:15,440
S1: side of a role like this? Yeah.

1399
01:05:15,470 --> 01:05:18,350
S11: For sure. I mean, it is incredibly particularly the first

1400
01:05:18,350 --> 01:05:22,010
S11: season was physical because Halbrand was kind of always in

1401
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:26,930
S11: a physical situation, and he was a man of the earth. Right? Um, so, yeah,

1402
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:29,090
S11: I always seemed to be in water on the show.

1403
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,220
S11: I'm always and I'm wearing leather trousers when I'm. And

1404
01:05:31,220 --> 01:05:33,440
S11: it was the same this season, at the start of

1405
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:37,220
S11: this season. Um, sodden leather trousers at the bottom of

1406
01:05:37,220 --> 01:05:40,820
S11: a massive water tank. And that's incredibly demanding. I had

1407
01:05:40,820 --> 01:05:42,650
S11: to learn to do a bit of free diving and

1408
01:05:42,650 --> 01:05:45,110
S11: breath holding and stuff to be able to do that. Yeah,

1409
01:05:45,110 --> 01:05:48,590
S11: and horse riding and such. So it is a lot.

1410
01:05:48,620 --> 01:05:50,170
S11: We did a lot of stunt work we kind of

1411
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:51,710
S11: did in New Zealand. We were doing like 2 or

1412
01:05:51,710 --> 01:05:56,020
S11: 3 hours of stunts every morning, just sword fighting. Yeah. Um,

1413
01:05:56,050 --> 01:06:00,520
S11: but the second season, it kind of goes from physical

1414
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:06,940
S11: challenges to quite linguistically challenging, and there's quite long scenes

1415
01:06:06,940 --> 01:06:12,670
S11: that are real meaty actor scenes. And that was an

1416
01:06:12,670 --> 01:06:17,260
S11: enormous challenge. And the ankle weights I used as a tool,

1417
01:06:17,260 --> 01:06:19,720
S11: something I've had from drama school, but I wore them

1418
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:21,910
S11: for the first two weeks or so of filming, and

1419
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:23,740
S11: it helped me because he's a god. It kind of

1420
01:06:23,770 --> 01:06:28,030
S11: helped me establish this sense of the literal sense of

1421
01:06:28,030 --> 01:06:32,740
S11: weight of the character, and the whole character is geared

1422
01:06:32,770 --> 01:06:37,360
S11: towards Celebrimbor. It's he's the greatest of elven smiths. He's

1423
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,960
S11: like a celebrity in Middle-Earth. And it's like, who would

1424
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:42,220
S11: he respond to?

1425
01:06:42,250 --> 01:06:43,030
S1: Yeah, right.

1426
01:06:43,210 --> 01:06:45,520
S11: Who who's the kind of person that could appear to

1427
01:06:45,550 --> 01:06:49,140
S11: him and say, let's make these rings to save all

1428
01:06:49,140 --> 01:06:53,070
S11: of middle earth. And for me, it was this annatar

1429
01:06:53,070 --> 01:06:56,370
S11: figure that Tolkien writes about. And all Tolkien said about

1430
01:06:56,370 --> 01:07:00,600
S11: Annatar was that he has a fair form and that

1431
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:05,160
S11: he has a regality to him. He's regal. And yeah,

1432
01:07:05,190 --> 01:07:07,200
S11: I just use that and the ankle weights and the

1433
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:12,330
S11: physicality of that, everything's quite still and contained. And yeah,

1434
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:14,850
S11: it's those little tidbits of information that you can get

1435
01:07:14,850 --> 01:07:17,310
S11: from the books which inform the character.

1436
01:07:17,340 --> 01:07:21,570
S1: Yeah, that's really interesting. The show is the most expensive

1437
01:07:21,570 --> 01:07:24,840
S1: show ever made. A lot of Australian actors I talk

1438
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:28,500
S1: to know they work on generally small scale productions, and

1439
01:07:28,590 --> 01:07:31,290
S1: in some cases they get 1 or 2 takes to

1440
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:33,000
S1: film a scene and it's like, that's the best take.

1441
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:35,550
S1: We're moving on. On a show like this, with the scale,

1442
01:07:35,550 --> 01:07:39,030
S1: the production values, the drive, the ambition to make it

1443
01:07:39,030 --> 01:07:42,330
S1: the biggest. How different is that? Like, do you have

1444
01:07:42,330 --> 01:07:44,730
S1: more time to rehearse? Do you have more time opportunities

1445
01:07:44,730 --> 01:07:46,970
S1: to get it right? Does it shift the way that

1446
01:07:46,970 --> 01:07:49,670
S1: the actual mechanics of making this show work?

1447
01:07:49,700 --> 01:07:53,390
S11: I think it's twofold. This season, I felt like there

1448
01:07:53,390 --> 01:07:56,000
S11: was a bit of time and we were lucky. Charles Edwards,

1449
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:59,630
S11: who plays Kelly Brimble, he and I filmed most of

1450
01:07:59,630 --> 01:08:02,510
S11: our scenes chronologically. Oh, cool. And which was which is

1451
01:08:02,510 --> 01:08:04,520
S11: really rare. But because of that, it felt like we

1452
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:05,510
S11: had a lot of time.

1453
01:08:05,540 --> 01:08:07,010
S1: I think for a lot of people, they don't know

1454
01:08:07,010 --> 01:08:10,190
S1: that like TV shows, films are not always filmed. Yeah.

1455
01:08:10,220 --> 01:08:11,450
S1: The order of the start to the end. So that

1456
01:08:11,450 --> 01:08:12,230
S1: is kind of rare. Yeah.

1457
01:08:12,260 --> 01:08:14,300
S11: Often, like, I'll. You'll get to set. And you're filming

1458
01:08:14,300 --> 01:08:17,780
S11: the last season scene of a season first.

1459
01:08:17,810 --> 01:08:18,440
S1: Right, right, right.

1460
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:20,870
S11: You know, but so for us to film it basically

1461
01:08:20,870 --> 01:08:25,160
S11: all in order was really special. And it meant that

1462
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:27,290
S11: it felt like we had time and we were basically

1463
01:08:27,290 --> 01:08:30,110
S11: on one set. So we did get maybe you never

1464
01:08:30,110 --> 01:08:32,660
S11: really do more than like, four takes. Okay. Three. It's

1465
01:08:32,660 --> 01:08:35,750
S11: normally probably. Yeah. Two, three four takes.

1466
01:08:35,780 --> 01:08:36,980
S1: I didn't mean to imply, by the way, that you're

1467
01:08:36,979 --> 01:08:38,480
S1: really bad and you need 20 takes. Oh, no.

1468
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:42,589
S11: Yeah, I need 35 takes every time. No, but often,

1469
01:08:42,590 --> 01:08:46,360
S11: like on slower moving films, you do get the opportunity

1470
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:48,040
S11: to do more takes. That is a thing. And it's

1471
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:50,530
S11: not nothing to do with acting. It's more just if

1472
01:08:50,530 --> 01:08:52,180
S11: the time is there, why not use it?

1473
01:08:52,210 --> 01:08:52,870
S1: Have the options.

1474
01:08:52,900 --> 01:08:56,650
S11: Yeah, but it is all relative. I mean, the budget

1475
01:08:56,650 --> 01:09:00,130
S11: and the scale of this production, I think, you know,

1476
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,939
S11: you can. Tolkien is the only way to do it,

1477
01:09:03,939 --> 01:09:06,190
S11: is to have resource to do it, because it's such

1478
01:09:06,189 --> 01:09:08,170
S11: a massive world and you need totally.

1479
01:09:08,170 --> 01:09:08,889
S1: You can't phone it in.

1480
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,469
S11: No, that's the thing you need to. And that's in

1481
01:09:11,470 --> 01:09:16,300
S11: all levels. What the the resources of the show have

1482
01:09:16,300 --> 01:09:21,189
S11: given us is a level of quality from, like, everyone

1483
01:09:21,189 --> 01:09:25,180
S11: has put their heart and soul into it, whether you're actors,

1484
01:09:25,210 --> 01:09:30,400
S11: producers or you're in the costume department or set department. Um,

1485
01:09:30,430 --> 01:09:33,640
S11: there is so much love poured into it. And that's

1486
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,100
S11: the thing that I've really taken away from the experience,

1487
01:09:36,100 --> 01:09:39,460
S11: because it's I think you can't do Tolkien without that

1488
01:09:39,460 --> 01:09:40,660
S11: level of care.

1489
01:09:40,689 --> 01:09:43,710
S1: Amazing. Yeah. You talked a bit earlier about the weight

1490
01:09:43,710 --> 01:09:45,990
S1: of expectation and how you just can't really let that

1491
01:09:46,020 --> 01:09:48,990
S1: kind of distract you from just doing your job and

1492
01:09:48,990 --> 01:09:51,600
S1: giving the performance your best. But given that the first

1493
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,900
S1: season was a critical success, like a ratings success, you've

1494
01:09:54,930 --> 01:09:57,630
S1: sort of proven yourselves. Now going into the second season

1495
01:09:57,630 --> 01:09:59,700
S1: when you were filming that, did that shift at all

1496
01:09:59,700 --> 01:10:01,890
S1: your work where you're like, okay, now we've done it,

1497
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:03,510
S1: we know we can do it. I'm like a little

1498
01:10:03,540 --> 01:10:05,550
S1: bit nervous to prove that we can do it again.

1499
01:10:05,580 --> 01:10:07,200
S1: We can do it better. We can do it as good.

1500
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,960
S11: I think you have. It wasn't so much because of

1501
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:14,520
S11: the reception that I. That changed my perception. I think

1502
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,010
S11: it was more for me developing a level of comfort

1503
01:10:17,010 --> 01:10:19,650
S11: as an actor when you walk onto a set with.

1504
01:10:19,830 --> 01:10:21,810
S11: When I walked on my first day in New Zealand,

1505
01:10:21,810 --> 01:10:25,110
S11: and there's 500 people in the video village and a

1506
01:10:25,110 --> 01:10:28,980
S11: huge cranes, and I'd never experienced anything like that. And

1507
01:10:28,979 --> 01:10:31,410
S11: so and I think it was every like most of

1508
01:10:31,410 --> 01:10:33,389
S11: us in the cast had never experienced anything like that.

1509
01:10:33,390 --> 01:10:37,230
S11: So there was a level certainly across the cast, this

1510
01:10:37,229 --> 01:10:41,790
S11: low level of, um, kind of like, wow, this is big.

1511
01:10:41,790 --> 01:10:47,549
S11: And I had to sort of learn to be comfortable

1512
01:10:47,550 --> 01:10:50,040
S11: in that environment. And the biggest change with the second

1513
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:53,610
S11: season is you take feedback from people that are close

1514
01:10:53,610 --> 01:10:58,019
S11: to you and people that, um, you think opinions, people

1515
01:10:58,020 --> 01:11:00,900
S11: that have a really good judge of shows or media

1516
01:11:00,900 --> 01:11:03,270
S11: or whatever it is. But the second season, it was

1517
01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:06,930
S11: mainly just the fact that I was I was used

1518
01:11:06,930 --> 01:11:09,120
S11: to going onto sets like that. Yeah. So I had

1519
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,780
S11: this level of ease and I was able to have

1520
01:11:12,780 --> 01:11:15,450
S11: a lot more fun with it because I was comfortable

1521
01:11:15,450 --> 01:11:17,670
S11: going to work every day, and I kind of knew

1522
01:11:17,700 --> 01:11:21,660
S11: what to expect. Yeah, yeah. And that's something that we

1523
01:11:21,660 --> 01:11:25,110
S11: just developed through familiarity and working in the environment over

1524
01:11:25,110 --> 01:11:28,589
S11: the first season. So in a way, the second season

1525
01:11:28,590 --> 01:11:30,540
S11: is just kind of been like the shackles are off

1526
01:11:30,540 --> 01:11:33,090
S11: and I've just had so much fun doing it.

1527
01:11:33,090 --> 01:11:35,790
S1: That's awesome. That's really cool to hear. Yeah. Uh, one

1528
01:11:35,790 --> 01:11:36,990
S1: of the last things I wanted to ask you is

1529
01:11:37,020 --> 01:11:39,590
S1: I'd probably applied more to the big reveal of the

1530
01:11:39,590 --> 01:11:42,110
S1: first season, but there still twists and turns and lots

1531
01:11:42,110 --> 01:11:44,960
S1: of things to come in the second season. These days, fans,

1532
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:47,240
S1: they love to pass every single thing that is said

1533
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:49,880
S1: in an interview, and people sometimes slip up and they

1534
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:51,679
S1: don't know what's been revealed and what hasn't been revealed.

1535
01:11:51,710 --> 01:11:54,259
S1: Has that been a stressful part of making this show?

1536
01:11:54,290 --> 01:11:57,979
S11: Usually, like the first, the first season when I was

1537
01:11:57,979 --> 01:12:00,920
S11: doing media and the press tour, I really had to

1538
01:12:00,950 --> 01:12:05,180
S11: make sure I didn't give any spoilers away. And that's like.

1539
01:12:05,210 --> 01:12:05,960
S12: Did you hold it?

1540
01:12:05,990 --> 01:12:06,590
S1: Did you manage.

1541
01:12:06,590 --> 01:12:07,370
S12: To? Yeah, I don't.

1542
01:12:07,370 --> 01:12:09,800
S11: Think I gave. People got quite good stuff. The tour

1543
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:12,620
S11: started off being like, oh, I think Sarah might be

1544
01:12:12,620 --> 01:12:14,450
S11: in the show. And then by the end they were like,

1545
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:18,170
S11: You're Sauron, aren't you? So I had to just deny, deny, deny.

1546
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:19,849
S11: I would always say something along the lines of like,

1547
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:23,360
S11: oh yeah, that's interesting. That's a good theory. So, um,

1548
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:26,060
S11: I think some actors just lie about it, and I

1549
01:12:26,090 --> 01:12:28,250
S11: guess I was kind of bending the truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1550
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,110
S11: But I think other people in the cast were worried

1551
01:12:30,140 --> 01:12:31,430
S11: they would be the ones to give it away.

1552
01:12:31,460 --> 01:12:32,390
S12: Gotcha, gotcha.

1553
01:12:32,420 --> 01:12:33,530
S1: Not their secret to tell.

1554
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:34,730
S12: Yeah, exactly.

1555
01:12:34,850 --> 01:12:36,610
S1: And just finally, you're from Geelong.

1556
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:39,280
S12: Your cats fan. Big time you're feeling good about.

1557
01:12:39,310 --> 01:12:42,519
S11: I'm a bit apprehensive. I mean, no, we're in okay.

1558
01:12:42,550 --> 01:12:45,610
S11: We're in okay form. But Port Adelaide in Adelaide.

1559
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:46,090
S12: Yeah.

1560
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:47,980
S11: Yeah that's a tough ask for any team. And they've

1561
01:12:47,979 --> 01:12:48,700
S11: won five in a row.

1562
01:12:48,729 --> 01:12:49,299
S12: They're finishing very.

1563
01:12:49,300 --> 01:12:50,770
S11: Strong. Maybe even more than five in a row.

1564
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:51,580
S12: Yeah yeah yeah I'm.

1565
01:12:51,580 --> 01:12:52,990
S1: A Sydney fan. So we you know we had the

1566
01:12:52,990 --> 01:12:55,150
S1: great start then we freaked out. But we're doing well

1567
01:12:55,180 --> 01:12:56,679
S1: but excited that we're both. You know.

1568
01:12:57,100 --> 01:12:57,549
S12: I was I.

1569
01:12:57,580 --> 01:12:59,860
S11: Hoped we'd be playing you guys. I would have hoped

1570
01:12:59,890 --> 01:13:01,810
S11: we finished fourth, but we finished third in the end.

1571
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:02,380
S11: Good luck.

1572
01:13:02,380 --> 01:13:04,090
S12: Thanks. You too. Thanks. Thanks, Charlie.

1573
01:13:04,090 --> 01:13:04,840
S1: Thank you so much for coming.

1574
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:05,979
S12: On the show. Thanks, Osman.

1575
01:13:06,010 --> 01:13:07,180
S11: See you for the grand final.

1576
01:13:07,210 --> 01:13:07,930
S12: See you then.

1577
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:19,090
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Qiwang. If

1578
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:21,640
S1: you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, make

1579
01:13:21,670 --> 01:13:24,429
S1: sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app. Leave

1580
01:13:24,430 --> 01:13:27,130
S1: us a review or better yet, share the episode with

1581
01:13:27,130 --> 01:13:27,939
S1: a friend.