S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a
S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Mel Cambry and
S1: Thomas Mitchell. Gang, what is up? It's been a couple
S1: of weeks since we're all together. How are you guys doing?
S2: Yeah, good. Good to be back together. Missed you guys.
S3: Yeah. It's been. It feels like it's been a while
S3: since it's been the three of us. So this is our.
S3: This is great.
S1: Yeah. One thing that hasn't changed since the last time
S1: we spoke a few weeks ago is that the New
S1: South Wales Blues are on the cusp of getting absolutely
S1: destroyed yet again. Uh, an origin again. By the time
S1: this is out, you know, you will know what the
S1: score is. We don't know what it is. Thomas, you
S1: were saying that you feel slightly optimistic because Latrell is
S1: back in the squad?
S2: I do, uh, as you said, it'll probably come back
S2: to haunt me, but, you know, I don't know. I've
S2: been like, I follow Latrell on Instagram, and just the
S2: vibe of his stories this week has been good. Like,
S2: it seems like a good vibe in camp. He's having
S2: lots of tea. Uh, that's been his big thing.
S1: He's drinking a lot of tea. That's what you're hanging
S1: your your your hopes on that.
S2: That's pretty desperate times. All right. So, uh, but yeah,
S2: last time I think I picked the blues by four
S2: and we got absolutely flogged. So this time I'm going
S2: blues by 20 plus. Wow.
S3: That's huge.
S2: Yeah. So anyway, just watch this space, guys.
S3: I like when you put money down because it gives
S3: the game some kind of level of stake for me.
S3: So even though I appreciate that you're putting your money on.
S2: It, maybe we should go in all three.
S3: Yeah. It's better when it's your money.
S1: I mean, his mental health is is a big factor
S1: on how good you feel during the day, isn't it?
S3: Correct. I thought you were going to say when you said, um,
S3: one thing that hasn't changed is that we still don't
S3: have a good answer for you when you say, how
S3: have you been this week?
S1: Our wonderful producer will probably tidy up the awkward gap,
S1: but you both just stare each other in shock that
S1: I asked you the same question I asked you every single.
S3: Always so disappointing. I feel like we always disappoint you.
S2: I'm mostly focused on, like, the different ways that you say,
S2: this is the drop. I just get so zeroed in
S2: on that. And so then after that happens, I just
S2: zone out for like 10s.
S3: Yeah.
S1: I'm a pro man. You know, I bring the A
S1: game to the introduction. Um, let's get on with it.
S1: Today on the show, we got something very exciting. Austin
S1: Butler is on the podcast. He's a star of the
S1: new film The Bike Riders, which is out next week. Uh,
S1: it also stars Jodie Comer and Tom Hardy. I spoke
S1: to Austin about the film, his recent performances in June,
S1: and Elvis, and we had a really fun conversation about
S1: the state of cinema more generally, and why it's important
S1: for people to go to the movies and make sure
S1: that we have movies in the future. There are two
S1: different topics we're going to get into before we play you.
S1: That conversation with Austin in the second half of today's episode,
S1: we're going to talk about the fascinating moment that is
S1: happening in pop music right now. It's actually a lot
S1: going on from the Lord and Charli XCX remix, and
S1: what that means for musical feuds and collaborations going forward,
S1: but also on a much broader scale. The breakthrough success
S1: of artists like Chapel Roan, Sabrina Carpenter, Tinashe, artists who've
S1: been making music for a very long time and are
S1: finally achieving commercial success even in a year that's been
S1: dominated by the big three of Taylor, Beyonce and Billie,
S1: there's a lot to discuss about what's going on in
S1: the musical landscape right now. But first, the Logie nominations
S1: were announced this week. We covered the awards last year,
S1: kind of made the case that even if you're a
S1: bit cynical about these awards ceremonies and the state of
S1: Australian television, they're worth paying attention to because they are
S1: a barometer of what's going on in Australian TV in
S1: the industry right now. So we decided we'd take a
S1: look at the nominations this year and do our own
S1: temperature check on what's happening in Australian TV, and maybe
S1: even make some predictions that hopefully will be more accurate
S1: than Thomas's predictions on the rugby league. Thomas, I'm going
S1: to get your help for this one. You are famously
S1: the Logies guy in this office, in this podcast, in
S1: this country. Really this year, the awards are being done
S1: a little bit differently to the way they've operated for.
S1: I think like most of their history, there are new categories.
S1: There's a new judging system. Can you kind of break
S1: down what is different about the Logie Awards in 2024?
S2: Yes, I'm just going to go and update my Instagram
S2: bio to the Logies guy in this country. Uh, which
S2: is your.
S3: Gold Logie campaign starts today, correct?
S2: Yeah, it's a title I've been coveting for some time.
S1: I think it started last year when we talked about this.
S1: I have a vague memory that we we sort of
S1: thought that by this time next year, Thomas and I
S1: would somehow be Logie nominees.
S2: Either be Logie nominated or writing the Logie show, which
S2: I still think we probably should be tapped to do. Um, sadly,
S2: the broadcast is no longer with the Great Nine Network. Anyway,
S2: all of that aside, uh, yes. So there are some
S2: big changes this year, and it's actually been really reflected
S2: in what the nominations look like. So previously, the awards
S2: were split into Most Popular, which was a fan voted award.
S2: So that was kind of, you know, across everything all
S2: the way up to the gold and, you know, comedy, drama,
S2: reality and then the same. Awards were mirrored in the
S2: Most Outstanding, which was an industry voted award. And that's
S2: been the case since, you know, forever, as you said,
S2: now it's been combined. So the awards are all known
S2: as the best. So best actor, best actress in a drama,
S2: best actor in a comedy. And they are going to
S2: be decided by a combined score. So it'll be a
S2: score determined by assessment criteria, a supplied audience data and
S2: then public votes. So it'll be like a mesh of
S2: what the industry thinks and what the public thinks, and
S2: then how the shows fit into the assessment criteria. So
S2: that really changes things. It's no longer going to be
S2: this kind of popularity contest awards versus, you know, what
S2: the industry thinks. And I guess the point of that
S2: is to, uh, settle on a really more reflective best winner,
S2: which I think is actually a really good thing. Uh,
S2: and generally I think people are excited about that. There's
S2: also been some changes in terms of the actual awards.
S2: So they finally decided to separate the comedy and drama
S2: in the acting categories. So previously it was just like
S2: Best Actor, and you would have people from comedies and
S2: dramas up against each other, whereas now that's, um, completely separate,
S2: which is kind of like what the Emmy Awards does.
S2: So yeah, basically, we're looking at a brand new Logies
S2: for the 64th Annual Logie Awards happening in August. It's
S2: happening again in Sydney. Uh, it moved to Sydney last
S2: year and it will be broadcast on seven. So I
S2: guess like it's, you know, the Logies for a long time,
S2: as we've done on this very podcast, has been probably
S2: criticized as a strange, like, convoluted reflection of basically what
S2: people who still watch Free to Air think maybe. And
S2: that's always been the criticism and perhaps why people are
S2: a little bit indifferent. Whereas this change, I think, is
S2: the Logies being like, look, we've heard you, and now
S2: the entire criteria is a mix of all these different
S2: things and therefore delivers a winner that makes more sense
S2: to people.
S1: Yeah, I think that's a really good summary. Thank you.
S1: And also I think it makes a lot of sense,
S1: like having those awards separated in popular versus best was
S1: just very confusing for people. Uh, and like you said,
S1: separating out comedy and drama also makes a lot of sense. Like,
S1: how do you compare dramatic and comedic performances, though obviously.
S1: And I'm sure this will be the case. Like, you
S1: still get these funny. Shows that end up in weed
S1: categories like you do with the logos. People like the
S1: bear is in comedy and like there's bits of it
S1: that are funny, but it's also one of the most
S1: emotionally intense and dramatic shows on TV right now. But
S1: at least there's some attempt to look at what award
S1: shows are doing elsewhere and how the Logies can, I guess,
S1: mirror them in good ways. I'm interested in what the
S1: viewership data being an input into the awards means, because
S1: we obviously don't really know the numbers on streaming platforms.
S1: Do you have any insight into that, like have streaming
S1: platforms been asked to provide viewership data for this Logies process?
S2: I believe they have, actually, and I think you can
S2: really then see the results of that, because if you
S2: have a look at the particularly the acting categories, Logies.
S2: So for lead actor, lead actress in comedy and drama
S2: as well as supporting it is like stacked with streamers. Um,
S2: so I think that's really played a part. And you know,
S2: and generally it's a huge year for streaming. And again,
S2: I think we're seeing this shift in terms of like
S2: who has been nominated, I guess, firstly, in terms of
S2: some of the big surprises or the big stories coming
S2: out of the initial nominations, Boy Swallows Universe was the
S2: most successful individual show. Obviously, that was a Netflix Australian
S2: production and that was a huge success story. Generally, I
S2: think for Australia it trended all over the world. That's
S2: got eight best nominations, as well as two Graham Kennedy
S2: Awards for the most popular new talent for Felix Cameron
S2: and Lee Tiger Halley. So that was kind of like
S2: the big story coming out. Also, the ABC, it's interesting
S2: time for the ABC generally, but in terms of its nominations,
S2: it's like a record year. They've got 51 nominations now,
S2: as well as Tony Armstrong being nominated for his first
S2: Gold Logie. But you know, we've seen like they've got
S2: 17 out of 20 best categories they're nominated in. And
S2: it's kind of spread both across drama and comedy. The
S2: newsreader got a bunch total control, mother and son in limbo,
S2: as well as kind of the usual suspects who get
S2: nominated every year like the Grün's Hard Quiz, the yearly
S2: with Charlie Pickering. So like I do think that the
S2: new criteria has fed into what the makeup looks like
S2: this year. You know, I think it's the first year
S2: that Home and Away doesn't really have any acting nominations
S2: like that does not happen at the Logies. That is
S2: just like, you know. So yeah, the changes seem to
S2: be working in the correct way. So yeah. Interesting times.
S1: Yeah. It does seem like the winners here. Like you said,
S1: Netflix with Boy Swallows Universe and the ABC. I feel
S1: like that that trend, that story that the Logies tell
S1: us about what's been happening in Australian TV the last
S1: 12 months or so, streamers and the ABC investing in
S1: comedy and drama, and perhaps the free to air networks
S1: not doing it as much, or at least not doing
S1: it in ways that are being critically or commercially as
S1: well received. I think across the 24 nominees in acting,
S1: across drama and comedy, only one is from a free
S1: to air network, which is Rob Collins in RFDS from seven.
S1: Rob Collins actually nominated twice in the best Lead Actor category,
S1: one for Royal Flying Doctor Service and one for the
S1: ABC Total Control. So good on him. I didn't know
S1: you could do that, but that's pretty cool to have
S1: him twice. Wonder if he's going to split his own vote.
S2: I always enjoy seeing when someone is up against themselves
S2: in a category. Yeah, but yeah, like I also picked
S2: that out as a pretty like insane thing like that.
S2: I think, you know, if you add up all those
S2: different nominations, there's like over 20 nominations and not only
S2: one single commercial free to air show in Royal Flying
S2: Doctor Service. I guess it also speaks to this increasing
S2: trend that when we do have the seven, nine, ten
S2: investing in like local drama drama especially, it's like it
S2: is a mini series. It's, you know, underbellies like that
S2: type of thing. It's not the long running drama. And
S2: so if you have a look at the mini series category,
S2: which has also been separated out this year, there are
S2: more commercial free to air networks. But yeah, I guess
S2: it is a pretty damning indictment of what we discuss
S2: every year whenever the networks do their upfronts. Is that increasingly,
S2: you just don't see the commercial free to air networks
S2: investing in local comedy and drama. It's just not what
S2: they do. And the stream is a really plugged that gap.
S2: And and you know, that's what we see. But sadly, uh,
S2: it shouldn't really be that way. And hopefully Rob Collins
S2: takes it out for Royal Flying Doctor service.
S3: Yeah I think it is kind of a reflection of
S3: the complete shift of original Australian content moving to streaming channels,
S3: and also the choice that networks are making, because a
S3: lot of these networks are associated with Streaming network ten,
S3: with Paramount nine, obviously with Stan, and they're really solidifying
S3: their free to air for reality TV shows. Um, which
S3: is an interesting shift, which we've seen has been happening
S3: for a while. But yeah, when you're looking at the
S3: Logies nominations, you can really see the primes, the netflixes
S3: dominating on there and binge as well.
S1: Yeah. Reality is the the inverse of this conversation, which
S1: is dominated by free to air stuff, reality and lifestyle
S1: I guess. So shows like travel guides on on nine
S1: Better Homes and Gardens on seven and then yeah, with
S1: reality it's alone on SBS, survivor on ten, I'm a
S1: Celebrity on ten, MasterChef on ten, Lego Masters on nine,
S1: The Block on nine. So that that is seemingly the
S1: new TV landscape. Reality on free to air and drama
S1: and scripted comedy on streaming and on the ABC. But
S1: as you pointed out, Mel, like these, some of these
S1: streamers like Stan, which has picked up a swag of nominees,
S1: are part of nine as well. So it just seems
S1: to perhaps be a reflection of the way that audiences
S1: are consuming stuff and who's watching online and who's watching
S1: on appointment free to air stuff like it makes sense
S1: that reality is maybe overrepresented on free to air, because
S1: that is still appointment viewing. You watch MasterChef at this time,
S1: so then you can talk about it the next day.
S1: Whereas for drama and comedy, people just want to watch
S1: that at their whim on online. The other one that
S1: I thought was interesting and is like honestly, frankly, a
S1: little bit sad. Best children's program. And, you know, ABC
S1: deserves props here for having five out of the six nominees.
S1: The only other one being from NITV and Netflix. Eddie's
S1: little homies. There was a era, including the one that
S1: we all grew up in, where the major commercial networks
S1: were investing a lot in children's TV shows, scripted dramas,
S1: all sorts of shows like that. It's just. And this
S1: has been borne out in reports done by the Australian
S1: Children's Television Foundation. There's just not the level of investment
S1: in children's TV that there used to be in Australia,
S1: and it's so interesting having the Logies as a kind
S1: of a data point for that as well.
S3: Yeah, I feel like and we talked about this with
S3: the budget as well, where there was an investment into
S3: children's TV. I feel like ABC has come to dominate
S3: that so convincingly that maybe other networks are moving away
S3: from it. But it is a shame because Bluey, one
S3: of our most successful cultural exports, has shown the power
S3: of children's television to travel internationally. So it is a shame.
S3: But yeah, very clear stronghold on that from the ABC.
S2: It'll be interesting to see if Bluey, which was famously
S2: beaten last year, uh, in quite a shock. Will will,
S2: you know, bounce back. I'm sure it probably will. I
S2: feel like it's been another big year for Bluey with
S2: a batch of new episodes, but yeah, I guess like
S2: going back to that. You know, of course all these
S2: streamers have associations with different networks, you know, Stan and
S2: Nine and stuff. But it's weird. Like if you just
S2: don't have, you know, the capacity to have a bunch
S2: of streaming in your, you know, like monthly budget, you
S2: just like, don't get to watch any Australian drama. Like,
S2: I mean, yeah, you can, you know, we've done some
S2: stories recently on our colleagues who have only watched Tenplay
S2: for a month or only watched SBS On Demand. You
S2: can go and watch old seasons of great Australian drama.
S2: But yeah, it's kind of weird. It's basically if you
S2: want to watch new Australian drama or comedy, then you
S2: have to like, definitely make sure that you're paying, you know,
S2: ten bucks a month extra on top of all the
S2: other bills you pay.
S3: Yeah, that's so true. And also, I think a lot
S3: of these shows, which are really great, deadlock, something like
S3: deadlock had a lot of cut through, but it was
S3: on Prime Video, which is still a relatively smaller streaming
S3: platform in Australia still. And a show like that could
S3: have potentially had far more import if it was on
S3: a streamer with more subscribers or if it was potentially
S3: on ABC, which everyone has access to. So it is
S3: kind of. Yeah, and we've obviously discussed this a bit
S3: before about how, you know, the segmenting of the market
S3: will affect how different shows are received.
S1: I wish I'd done the numbers on this before, but
S1: if you wanted to watch everything nominated for a Logie,
S1: you'd have to have Paramount+, Amazon, Disney+, Netflix, Stan, binge.
S1: That is a lot of money. And you know, the
S1: era that we were growing up in, you would have
S1: free to air that would be overwhelmingly all over the
S1: Logies and then maybe Foxtel for some of those prestige shows.
S1: So that's the other side to this as well. Like
S1: Cost of Living is impacting the kinds of Australian stories
S1: people can access. It's a good point, Thomas, that if
S1: you can't afford all these things, you still probably deserve
S1: Australian stories as well. Let's get to the Gold Logie.
S1: This is probably one that even if people don't necessarily
S1: care about who wins Best Miniseries or Telemovie, there'll be
S1: a cross. The Gold Logie race break that one down
S1: for us. Thomas, who's nominated? What are the surprises here?
S2: Yes. Uh, it's an interesting mix this year, so I
S2: guess we'll go with the nominees first. As I mentioned,
S2: Tony Armstrong, uh, nominated for his first ever Gold Logie. He's,
S2: you know, one of the bright young hopes for the
S2: ABC and very, very popular. Obviously, he's actually on a
S2: hat trick, having won the Graham Kennedy Award in 2022,
S2: the most popular new talent in 2023. And then now
S2: looking at the Gold Logie. And both of those awards
S2: are publicly voted. So, you know, there is a trend
S2: of people voting for Tony. So he's really, really in
S2: the mix.
S1: So I just got to say, as an aside, I
S1: love the fact that you, uh, commentating this like it's
S1: a live sports. Yeah.
S3: You were calling it tournament.
S1: It's really, really good.
S2: Uh, and then alongside him we have Andy Lee. So weirdly,
S2: people were like, oh my God, Hamish Blake, who is,
S2: you know, a two time Gold Logie winner won in 2022, uh,
S2: was beaten by Sonia Kruger last year, but everyone thought
S2: he would be in the mix. He isn't. Instead, Andy
S2: Lee gets his first shot at gold. And then we
S2: also have Asher Keddie. Uh, Julia Morris for I'm A celeb.
S2: Larry Emdur, also a first time Gold Logie nominee. Robert Irwin, again,
S2: another first timer for I'm A celeb and then last
S2: year's winner. Kruger is in the mix too. Now, it
S2: is an interesting batch of people because you have a
S2: whole lot of stuff going on. You've got previous winners
S2: in Sonia Kruger and Asher Keddie. You've got previous multiple
S2: nominees in Julia Morris. I think this is the third
S2: year she's been nominated in a row without winning. And
S2: then you do have these first timers in Andy, Larry
S2: and Robert and Tony Armstrong. So it's a funny race
S2: because at very first glance you're like, okay, maybe there's
S2: a chance anyone can win. I you know, we wrote
S2: about this earlier this week. I really believe that. It's
S2: a three horse race between Larry and Tony Armstrong and
S2: Robert Irwin. I think they each have kind of like
S2: viable shots at going the distance. But what what I
S2: think is so weird is that last year we saw, uh,
S2: Sonia basically, I guess, perhaps surprisingly, beat Hamish off the
S2: back of a very strong campaign from channel seven to
S2: get her there. I think the same thing will happen
S2: again this year with Larry. I mean, I'm curious to
S2: get your guys thoughts. Obviously not being as enmeshed in
S2: Logies culture. What was your kind of, like instant reaction
S2: to seeing the list?
S3: Sorry, could I ask? And I had a little hand
S3: raise before. Um, I just wanted some clarification please. On
S3: are they do you win the Gold Logie based on
S3: the performance of that year? You know, i.e. is Robert
S3: Irwin going to get it based on I'm A celeb,
S3: or do you take into consideration all their kind of
S3: historic roles up to this moment?
S2: Well, so the Gold Logie will just be publicly voted.
S2: So this one I guess you could make the argument
S2: still remains like who can basically galvanize people that like
S2: them the most to vote? And which is why the
S2: biggest conversation that, like I'm seeing so far is I
S2: feel like people have accepted that Tony is a worthy
S2: nominee and definitely in with a shot. And then the
S2: two other chances are, like Robert Irwin and Larry Emdur,
S2: who represent two very like I mean, Larry has been
S2: on TV for like 5000 years. He's hosted a million shows.
S2: He currently hosts two daily shows in the Chase and
S2: the Morning Show. And I guess people are like, he
S2: makes sense. And then you've got Robert Irwin, like, you know,
S2: we all love the Irwin family. They're, you know, held
S2: a special place in like the Australian cultural landscape. But
S2: like Robert Irwin hosted one season of I'm A celeb.
S2: He did a pretty good job. Like, whatever, the ratings
S2: weren't amazing. And yet he's like, in this gold race.
S2: And not only in the gold race, he and Larry
S2: are kind of like, according to the online bookies way
S2: up there, it's like him, Tony and Larry are all
S2: under like $4. They're like the favorites.
S1: And he's and he's also up against his co-host Julia Morris,
S1: because I thought maybe they just needed to make sure
S1: there's representation from across all the networks. I feel like
S1: what's interesting about this is that this is one where
S1: streaming hasn't really impacted the race, and I'm not quite
S1: sure what the obvious streaming person would be in this,
S1: but I mean, if Asher Keddie actually, no, I guess
S1: Asher Keddie was in strife, which is a binge show,
S1: but I'm sort of surprised that maybe there is like
S1: a Heartbreak High or A Boy Swallows in this. Considering
S1: how popular those shows have been, particularly for like a
S1: younger audience, that might not be as plugged into some
S1: of these. Others, like like Sonia Kruger. I think it's
S1: interesting that Tony's nominated. I think it makes sense given
S1: he keeps winning these these awards that are popularly voted on.
S1: It's pretty amazing. He's not really been on television for
S1: a long time to be a Gold Logie nominee, relatively
S1: early in his TV career. It's quite an extraordinary, uh,
S1: hat tip to him. I think you're right that it's
S1: that it's Larry Robb and and Tony, though. That said,
S1: I mean, the Logies love repeat winners. Like there's so
S1: many examples where people win. Like there's the the 90s
S1: are wild. Ray Martin won in 9394 and 95 and 96.
S1: And then Lisa McCune won 97 9899 2000 like that
S1: is the entire 90s. There were only two winners, Ray
S1: Martin and Lisa McCune.
S2: Yeah, and what a pair. Yeah, but I mean, obviously
S2: this won't shock you. Things are very different now than
S2: they were in the 90s. And, you know, obviously that
S2: was when you would literally buy your TV week magazine
S2: and fill out the thing and fucking mail it in, like,
S2: whereas now obviously it's online voting and but what I
S2: think will I mean, I obviously can't speak for Logies organizers,
S2: but I have previously worked at TV week and I
S2: reckon they would be like praying that Larry Emdur wins,
S2: because I think if Robert Irwin was to win, it
S2: does like undermine the legitimacy and I guess like the
S2: prestige around the Gold Logie. Like, you know, the reality
S2: is the guy is like 20 something. He's been on
S2: TV for two minutes and like, what does that say
S2: about the award? If Robert Irwin was to win and be,
S2: you know, declared the most popular person on Australian TV
S2: when he's hosted one single season of I'm A celeb,
S2: let alone someone should do a welfare check on Doctor
S2: Chris Brown, who hosted the show for like, ten years.
S2: Never got a nomination.
S3: What does it say? I think maybe it says that
S3: they need to continue to revisit how they how they
S3: judge these awards. I feel like, okay, I'm gonna go
S3: with a dark horse. I reckon, if it's completely popular.
S3: Voted Tony Armstrong. ABC viewers love him. A certain kind
S3: of person loves Tony Armstrong, but they're not the type
S3: of person who really cares about the Logies and they're
S3: not going. Online to vote, not the ABC audience. Robert
S3: Irwin big fan base, but I don't know.
S2: 6 million.
S3: Instagram followers. Yeah. So he could activate his his fans
S3: and they could vote. But I kind of feel like
S3: maybe they're not that interested in the Logies either. Asher Keddie,
S3: she's the sweet spot. I know she's won before, but repeat,
S3: repeat winners. The people who love Asher Keddie also love
S3: the Logies, and they are also the kind of person
S3: who I reckon gets online and votes for their girl.
S1: I love how you did not even know how these
S1: awards were decided five minutes ago, and you were so
S1: authoritative in declaring, but you're right. I mean, there is
S1: a latent Australian love for Asher Keddie. I, I think
S1: the only thing I would say in response to that
S1: is her show strife, like, wasn't like a huge hit
S1: either critically or commercially. And I think I 100% agree
S1: with you that the ABC audience who love Tony are
S1: also the kinds of folk who traditionally probably don't take
S1: the cues to vote. But this year, as we've discussed,
S1: there are so many ABC shows nominated, and the ABC
S1: is under so much scrutiny and pressure, including from people
S1: like us about what it's doing, what its future is
S1: that they I think if I was the ABC, I
S1: would actually go all out. I would say, this is
S1: our year where the commercial free to air network seemed
S1: to be struggling a little bit. We've got so many nominations,
S1: we've got our chance at a Gold Logie for the
S1: first time. That isn't a joke campaign like Tom Gleeson.
S1: We could actually win the gold. We could win like
S1: 30 Logies here, potentially. Let's actually mobilize our audience and
S1: do it. That's what I would do if I was
S1: the ABC, whether or not the audience responds, I'm not sure.
S1: For that reason. I think ultimately Thomas is right that
S1: Larry is probably in a really good spot because he's
S1: got the combination of being someone who lots of Australians
S1: know because he's been around for a long time. He's
S1: generally well liked. He's got a bigger social following, though
S1: not by much than Tony Armstrong, and seven can mobilize
S1: behind him the way they did for Sonia Kruger last year.
S1: So I think there's a lot of factors suggesting that
S1: Larry might be able to take this one out.
S2: And also, I think, you know that the the people
S2: who like love, you know, he's got 171,000 followers on
S2: Instagram versus, you know, Robert Irwin's 6 million. That's absolutely
S2: no contest. But the like people who love and follow
S2: Larry are so committed like versus what? You know, Robert
S2: Irwin's probably very youngish fan base. I don't know, even
S2: if he puts out a few stories like, hey, vote
S2: for me. Link in bio. I don't know if like,
S2: the amount of traction he'll actually get off that. Whereas
S2: I know like having also previously worked at the Morning
S2: Show as a producer with Larry, I know what that
S2: audience is like. They're used to engaging with the show.
S2: They buy shit from advertorials. They constantly enter competitions to
S2: get a cruise to Fiji. Like they will sit and
S2: watch that show for three hours every day and text
S2: in and spend money. And like that is a viewer
S2: behavior that they're used to. So like and already it's
S2: beginning like seven is going all out. Sonia is like
S2: an afterthought this year. That's my opinion. Like all of
S2: the seven talent has been Flogging Larry already. Like they
S2: will be behind him. And you know, it's funny, like
S2: I text you last night, Osmond to be like, fuck.
S2: Like you should see like Larry's odds from them. Even
S2: before when they announced, like he was in the mix,
S2: his odds were, like, really high. And I should have
S2: fucking got on him then. But I didn't cut this out.
S2: If I can't talk about gambling. But now, like in
S2: the last 24 hours, he has shortened so much. He's like,
S2: he and Tony are the favourites with Robert just behind.
S2: But he is.
S3: You wrote a story. I mean, it would probably.
S1: Shorten even further after people listen to this conversation. So
S1: if you didn't put your money on, you're probably, yeah.
S3: I feel like you wrote a story saying he was
S3: a favorite and then he became a favorite. I mean, I.
S2: Have long suspected that I have the ear of the nation,
S2: and that was confirmation, which I've I've.
S1: Well, the ear of the nation or the ear of
S1: the 14 people betting on the bookie awards.
S2: But yeah. Anyway, that's my tip. Play this back in
S2: August when he wins and you guys can just, like,
S2: give me a nice cheer.
S1: Look, I'm glad we had that conversation because we get
S1: a little bit of feedback sometimes that, you know, we
S1: talk about these big, uh, American shows and American films
S1: and there's lots of interesting stuff happening in Australia. I
S1: think that's like a fair shout. It's good to take
S1: the time to do a bit of a temp check
S1: on what is happening in Australian television, the good and
S1: the things that maybe are being missed a bit. But
S1: I'm really interested. I'm really interested to see how many
S1: people engage with the Logies this year, given that they
S1: are trying to encompass a wider range of shows and
S1: a wider range of streaming platforms. And like we always
S1: say about these awards, they're not the only thing that matters.
S1: Absolutely not. But they are a reflection of how a
S1: decent chunk of the community and the industry think about
S1: how things are going right now. So it's worth talking about.
S2: And I think personally, like the ceremony will be in August,
S2: it will be on seven. And I think I'm excited
S2: to see Sam Pang back as host. Uh, he has
S2: a lot of material to work with from a insane year, uh,
S2: for all I mean, really, all of the major TV networks, um,
S2: you know, culturally, socially and everything that's. Going on I
S2: like yeah hopefully he's like got a red hot cold opener.
S3: Yeah. Then he deserves the Gold Logie too.
S2: Well actually he was I mean I hate to keep
S2: talking about gambling. He was he was like in the
S2: before the nominations were announced, he was in the mix
S2: as a really short, odd, uh, and then he didn't
S2: get a nomination. I mean.
S1: Amazingly, if he gets nominated for his performance hosting every year,
S1: that would.
S2: Be. Well, this is another thing just quickly, uh, worth
S2: mentioning lots of people don't know is that you have
S2: to actually put yourself forward for the gold, which is
S2: why initially people were like, oh my God, Hamish Blake snubbed.
S2: But like I, I think I said this last year
S2: I would get a tattoo of a Logie if I
S2: was wrong. There's I guarantee he said don't put me
S2: forward because like, I feel like last year the general
S2: vibe from Hamish was like, I don't want to win
S2: this again. The whole then Sonia did that weird acceptance
S2: speech where she like, I don't know, kind of lit
S2: him up. But then like, I think Hamish was like,
S2: I don't want to be involved this year. So I
S2: suspect he didn't put himself forward. And also then you've
S2: now got Andy having a shot, and I'm sure Hamish
S2: will like do a big campaign for him. So yeah,
S2: interesting times.
S3: You need to get a tattoo of a Logie anyway. Yeah.
S1: I'm surprised you don't have a tattoo of a logo.
S2: Well, maybe. Okay, look, if Larry doesn't win, I'll get one. Yeah.
S1: I've never seen him this animated.
S3: I've never seen you know so much before.
S2: This is my fucking mastermind subject.
S3: I am, like, shocked.
S2: Me talking about the Logies on mastermind will finally get
S2: me the Logie nomination. I've so long.
S1: All right. From your Rain Man. Subject to Mel's Rain Man.
S1: Subject pop music, baby. I'm really keen to have a
S1: pretty wide ranging discussion with you guys about what's going
S1: on in music right now, because I think it is
S1: utterly fascinating and it feels extremely, extremely significant. But before
S1: we do that, I kind of think it's worth discussing
S1: that Charli XCX Lorde situation first, because that's one we
S1: haven't had time to get into. It became like a
S1: big cultural moment last week, Mel, we spoke about the
S1: Charli album brat with Meg a couple of weeks ago
S1: and how that song Girl So Confusing was very likely
S1: about Lorde. Can you talk us through a little bit
S1: about what Charli was singing about and what happened last
S1: week to get everyone so worked up?
S3: Yeah, this song, Girl So Confusing, is about a complicated
S3: relationship with a female musician, and the public immediately thought
S3: that Charli XCX was talking about Lorde because, you know,
S3: she talks about we've got the same hair, we talk
S3: about making music. People say we're alike, which is something
S3: that's been said of both Lorde and Charli XCX, that
S3: they like each other, and she talks about how strained
S3: this relationship is and rife with miscommunications. And everyone started
S3: speculating who it was about and then completely taking control
S3: of the narrative. Charli XCX and Lorde decided to work
S3: it out on the remix and released this fabulous remixed
S3: version of Girl So Confusing, where they essentially speak to
S3: their their relationship and their different confusions about it. One
S3: of the things I found really interesting a we haven't
S3: heard heaps from Lorde lately, she's kind of moved to London,
S3: we know that, but hasn't been releasing music, has been
S3: off social media, and she has this really kind of
S3: vulnerable verse on it.
UU: For the last couple years I've been at war in
UU: my body. I tried to starve myself in it, and
UU: then I gained all the weight back. I was trapped
UU: in the hatred. And your life seems so awesome, I
UU: never thought. My voice was in your head, girl.
S3: It's quite a very vulnerable verse, and it's great to
S3: hear Lorde kind of back making music. Uh, but I think,
S3: you know, this whole remix, I mean, obviously, I would
S3: think that Lorde was in on it the whole time
S3: and that she would have been across and this was planned,
S3: that they would release this song together. Well, obviously you
S3: can't just spontaneously make music like I think, but I
S3: don't think that changes anything about it, that they planned it.
S2: I didn't think that that wasn't my first. I mean,
S2: I'm probably more of a sucker, I don't know, what
S2: do you think?
S1: I have a bit of intelligence on this one.
S4: So here it comes.
S1: Friend. Friend of the pod, Shaad D'Souza, who wrote that
S1: Amazing Face magazine cover feature on Charli a few months
S1: ago that I think I shouted out, um, obviously spent
S1: a lot of time with Charlie. I think has gotten
S1: to know Charlie quite well. Uh, at least the the
S1: tension between the two of them is like 100% real. Um,
S1: and that is something that has been plaguing, I guess, Charlie,
S1: for a while. And I don't know whether the first
S1: Lord heard about this track was when the album was released,
S1: because what's interesting to remember as well is that Lorde
S1: was very quick to go to the show and to
S1: say how good it was. I have a feeling that
S1: Charlie just wrote this song, didn't talk to Lord about it,
S1: but maybe gave Lorde a heads up that this track
S1: is coming. And then that's when the wheels started to
S1: turn on this. So I guess it's a little bit
S1: of both. It's like genuinely Charlie organically expressing her feelings
S1: about something, and she's done that a bit on this record.
S1: Like there's a track that everyone thinks is about Taylor
S1: Swift and whatever. Um, and then Lorde, I think, came
S1: up with her own idea to, hey, this would be
S1: really interesting if we quote unquote worked it out on
S1: the remix. It's a really fascinating thing because it seems
S1: to have happened pretty quickly and pretty organically, and the
S1: vulnerability that they both expose on this track is a
S1: bit surprising. It's like almost even if there is an
S1: element of musical cynicism because it helps boost, you know,
S1: the album's placement in the charts and whatever, whatever. It's
S1: just so raw and honest that that supersedes anything to
S1: do with its success and how it's in the zeitgeist.
S1: You have Lorde talking about, yeah, her body, about how
S1: she feels about cancelling on on Charlie. It doesn't feel
S1: cynical to me.
S3: No, no. And I me saying that they worked on
S3: it together is not about cynicism. It's just the reality
S3: of like, you mean.
S2: The actual execution and delivery of the.
S3: I don't think it makes it any less inauthentic that
S3: they decided to do this and release this song. But
S3: I completely agree with Oz. I think she probably gave
S3: her the heads up as a courtesy. And then Lorde said, well,
S3: why don't I feature on it? And what I now
S3: want to see is a Taylor remix of sympathy as
S3: a knife, which is the Charli XCX song about Taylor Swift.
S3: So now I'm hoping Taylor's going to pop on.
S2: What I what we all really want to see is
S2: Drake and Kendrick work it out on the remix. Yeah,
S2: I did think this.
S4: Was no one.
S1: Wants to see either of those two things.
S4: Just for the record, but I did.
S2: Think I did think in the context of this year
S2: that's been so dominated, um, musically by this whole, like,
S2: you know, narrative around feuds and, and like the Drake
S2: and Kendrick thing, which I think, like, just as an aside,
S2: seems increasingly ridiculous, like with more distance, I don't know, like,
S2: you know, I know Kendrick is the winner and he
S2: had that big pop out show and stuff, but I
S2: just the more I listened to those songs, I'm like,
S2: I can't believe this happened. And anyway, um, but particularly
S2: then you say something like this and it's such an
S2: interesting way to like, approach, you know, the feud that's
S2: become this construct in, in music these days. And particularly
S2: I thought what was so great was, you know, we're
S2: in this era, I think Pitchfork mentioned it of like
S2: calling it detective pop, of which, you know, our Lord
S2: and Savior Taylor Swift is kind of leading that where,
S2: you know, you write these pop music songs and they're
S2: full of Easter eggs, and your fans, like, lose their
S2: minds trying to figure out what's going on. And this like,
S2: seemed like that. And then instead of like, leaving us
S2: all to speculate and, and like this, you know, churning
S2: of ideas and negativity and oh, is it about this person?
S2: It's about that person. Instead, they just, like, got on
S2: a new remix of the song and, like, blew everyone
S2: away in the nicest way possible. I thought it was
S2: just like such a aside from the song being great and,
S2: you know, a kind of reflection of why the album
S2: is so good. It was in such an interesting and
S2: smart way to like, nullify this, you know, story that
S2: was brewing and also create a new moment for the album,
S2: which is already dominating, you know, pop culture anyway. Yeah, totally.
S3: I feel like there's a real self-reflexiveness and self-awareness about
S3: it because female pop stars are like historically, obviously pitted
S3: up against each other. There can only be one like,
S3: you know, Britney and Christina, Katy and Taylor. And so
S3: I think that this is completely reclaiming that feud narrative. Um,
S3: and this is about, you know, female pop driven reconciliation
S3: and female pop stars building each other up, which is
S3: extending beyond this song as well.
S1: Absolutely. And I think to to your point, Thomas, about
S1: the detective pop of it, I think unless you were
S1: like very frequent in the London club scene in the
S1: past 12 to 18 months, you probably had no idea
S1: that there was like this Charlie Lorde feud. So it
S1: wasn't something that had been seeded already. And I think
S1: we spoke about this when the album was first released.
S1: I think unlike. Something like Tortured Poets Department. The album
S1: sure has some biographical elements to it, but it works
S1: just on a level of being a good album. It
S1: doesn't need you to just pass everything through. Who is
S1: this song about? Oh my God, I can't believe we're
S1: finding out about this relationship and this breakup. I think
S1: Tortured Poets kind of entirely rests on people caring a
S1: lot about that stuff. I think the Charli record has
S1: some of that stuff, but just is a really fun, brash, dancey,
S1: kind of progressive pop album on its own without needing
S1: deep knowledge or lore about what's going on in Charli's life.
S2: Yeah, and I think for me, that's what I liked
S2: so much about it. Like, I think, you know, we
S2: are in this funny era of, you know, like that
S2: Detective Pop, but also it feels like lots of these
S2: artists are going through this, like movement where they're like, okay,
S2: the way to connect with the audience is to present
S2: myself as that, really, you know, like, just like you
S2: and like salt of the earth and really authentic and vulnerable.
S2: And that's kind of the current trend. And I feel
S2: like although there is lots of that in brat, it's
S2: not like posturing to do that. It's very much just like,
S2: this is my weird life, and these are the things
S2: I do, and these are the anxieties I have and
S2: all my different neuroses. But I don't feel like charli's
S2: like really trying to make us convince that she's one
S2: of us, I think.
S1: Yeah, that's a really good point, because the aw shucks
S1: thing that Taylor does, it just always has more and
S1: more recently felt hollow because she's not like us. Like,
S1: you know, maybe she has some anxieties that we share. Like, maybe,
S1: but she's not like us. I don't know how much
S1: Charli is like us either, but when she talks about
S1: her life and even on that track with Lorde, when
S1: they're talking about the way they are misinterpreting each other
S1: and the public messages they send versus how they feel
S1: inwardly like that can apply to any human's relationship, like
S1: that actually feels more relatable and more vulnerable than someone
S1: getting on stage and saying, I get it. I was
S1: once like a young teenage girl who was worried about
S1: guys like you that feels a bit put on, whereas
S1: the way that Charli and Lorde are doing it doesn't.
S3: Yeah, I think it's a spectrum, and I almost think, well,
S3: it makes sense to compare them. I think their artistic
S3: projects are very different. And you would put, like Charli
S3: XCX and Chappell Roan at one end of the pop spectrum,
S3: which is very avant garde pop, and Taylor at the
S3: other end of the spectrum. So I guess I think
S3: they're hitting different points intentionally. So I almost think, yeah,
S3: I it makes sense to compare them. But really, I
S3: think Charli and Chappell Rowan are the next development of pop,
S3: because Taylor has dominated the landscape for so long. And
S3: as we know, culture moves forward when there's a reaction against,
S3: you know, what came before. So I think we're seeing
S3: the future of pop versus kind of what we have
S3: had or what has dominated for the last few years.
S1: Yeah, let's have that broader conversation, because I think, I
S1: think the artists that you're talking about thriving, both because
S1: of Taylor Swift and the work that she's done and
S1: as a reaction against the sheer dominance of her sound
S1: at the moment, too, I think this wave of artists
S1: have a lot in common. So, Charli, you mentioned Chappell, Rohan,
S1: Sabrina Carpenter, Tinashe. What's interesting about them is they've been
S1: making music for a very long time, all of these artists,
S1: but it's only now that they are starting to get
S1: really big commercial success and charting in a big way.
S1: Last year, Shaad D'Souza, who we mentioned, wrote a really
S1: interesting piece for The New York Times examining what they
S1: called the middle class pop star. And this is a
S1: generation of artists, including all of those that I just mentioned,
S1: who burst onto the scene maybe like a decade ago,
S1: had a couple of successful hits. But then even though
S1: they kept releasing albums and even albums that were really
S1: critically well received, they never managed to get big hits.
S1: They never managed to chart or sell out stadiums. They
S1: were just kind of grinding away, making a living, waiting
S1: for that wave that they could ride. The Charli is
S1: a really good example of this. Last year her track Speedrive,
S1: which was for the Barbie soundtrack, was actually her first
S1: single to chart in the US in a decade, which
S1: is kind of crazy. And obviously since then she's gone
S1: on with all the success that brat has had. Chaperone.
S1: Another example. She's been making music for seven years. She
S1: was signed to a major label and then dropped. She
S1: finally has a commercial hit with her recent single Good
S1: Luck Babe. I think that single, plus her tour, plus
S1: being an opener for Olivia Rodrigo, has helped grow her
S1: fan base and her album that was actually released nine
S1: months ago, Rise and Fall of a midwest Princess, is
S1: charting now. I feel like we haven't really seen that before.
S1: I think in some ways that's as impressive, if not
S1: more impressive, than what Charli is doing because she's been grinding.
S1: This record is not new, but now people are talking
S1: about it, and all these outlets that didn't review at
S1: nine months ago have been like, oh, this great album
S1: came out. We should actually talk about it. For the record,
S1: we did talk about it nine months ago. We did
S1: interview chaperoned, didn't we, Mel? We sure.
S3: Did. And, uh, kind of she was not a big
S3: deal then. Um, and I think, well, not as big
S3: a deal. She is now, I think touring her touring
S3: with Olivia Rodrigo as well, put her in front of
S3: a whole lot of, um, key audience for her.
S1: And I guess the other one in that category is
S1: Sabrina Carpenter, who, uh, was the Australian opener for Taylor
S1: Swift and made the most of it with her fun
S1: and cute little outros. She's released five albums over ten years,
S1: but got her first top ten hit with espresso just
S1: this year, followed up with please, please, please, which went
S1: number one. That's pretty extraordinary. Uh, Tinashe has been making
S1: music for a decade, is finally charting with her recent
S1: single nasty. This is a really interesting moment, and I
S1: don't want to discuss it all in the context of
S1: Taylor Swift, because I think we talk about Taylor a lot,
S1: but it's hard to not talk about like a generation
S1: of female pop stars without talking about the big ones there.
S1: And I agree with you, Mel, that they're not doing
S1: the same things, which is, I think, why these guys
S1: are finding so much success. Like I think Taylor did
S1: two things. She managed to convince a generation of young
S1: people post-Covid that going out and seeing live shows is
S1: really fun and really exciting, and I think that has
S1: probably helped kick start people's interest in going to see
S1: Sabrina and Olivia and Chappell and this other generation, too.
S1: And she's probably pushed this idea of fun. Wild shows
S1: are a thing for young people to do, not just
S1: sit at home on TikTok and stream music, but also
S1: her sound. And I think this applies to like, Olivia
S1: and Billie Eilish as well. So to broaden out those
S1: kind of big three that have dominated pop for the
S1: last few years, it's very ballady. It's very flat. That
S1: kind of Jack Antonoff production that is that is dominated
S1: a lot of the pop sound. It's not particularly dancey,
S1: it's not particularly sexy, it's not particularly fun. And I
S1: think people have clearly been craving that sense of, I
S1: want to go and like, get sweaty and lose it
S1: a little bit. And I think what Charli and Chappell
S1: and even Sabrina have, even if it's not all in
S1: the music, it is in the lyrics like it's a
S1: bit sexier, it's a bit more raw, it's a bit
S1: more kind of like intimate and yeah, maybe horny even.
S1: I think that space has existed as a vacuum there,
S1: and these guys have both benefited from like the, the tailwind,
S1: if you will, that that Taylor has created and filled
S1: that gap with a very different sound that used to
S1: dominate pop, like the Britney Christina thing. And these guys
S1: have found their new way of doing it. That's sort
S1: of my take as to why they seem to be.
S1: Achieving commercial success when they've just been grinding for such
S1: a long time, because it's not like they came out
S1: of nowhere. They've been working. It's more their huge reception
S1: they're getting now. That is the interesting and noteworthy thing.
S4: Yeah.
S3: And I think actually Charli Xcx's album named brat kind
S3: of puts its finger on what these singers that we're
S3: talking about are doing. There's kind of a revelry in
S3: the brattiness. There's a funniness, a theatricality, a nastiness to
S3: it all in a good way. And I do think
S3: that that is a reaction against, you know, what we
S3: have seen as before, they're owning the Brattiness. And that's
S3: why a lot of these songs are so fun and
S3: they're so delightful.
S2: Yeah. I feel like with, like, Sabrina Carpenter, she, she
S2: has that kind of more like All-American, like brattiness, but like,
S2: it's so all of her like her lyrics and her even, like,
S2: you know, people obviously lost their minds over the video
S2: with Barry Keoghan, but like, the whole way that she's
S2: been marketed basically since that eras tour, which like, I
S2: guess really exploded her, it just feels like, you know,
S2: that she doesn't give a fuck. And so therefore you're
S2: like drawn to that.
S3: Yeah, I kind of my only thought is, you know,
S3: I'm a fan of Sabrina. Had to get there for
S3: the nonsense outro at the Swift concert. My only thought
S3: is maybe Sabrina is a bit out of her league
S3: in this conversation. Yes, she kind of is celebrating the brattiness,
S3: but I do think she is more of your standard
S3: pop star, not only in her physicality, but that she
S3: came through that Disney network. She was a Disney child star.
S3: She's Jack Antonoff produced. Please, please, please is a very
S3: catchy song.
S2: It's also like, you know, we're getting fed it guerrilla
S2: marketing style every single.
S3: Yeah. And I don't think that that I think that
S3: song needed Barry in the film clip. Like, I think
S3: that song's pretty lucky it had such a good film clip,
S3: because I don't think it's like a pretty particularly interesting song,
S3: as catchy as it is. So I would differentiate. I'd
S3: probably put her in a slightly different category to Billie
S3: Eilish and Charli XCX and Chapel Rohan. Like, I think
S3: she's maybe, maybe she's the mid-ground there.
S1: Yeah, I think, I think that's that's fair. I mean,
S1: I also don't really love please, please, please, but I
S1: really like espresso and I kind of think that she's
S1: trained in that Disney world. But for her to just
S1: keep pushing and pushing and pushing when so many others
S1: would have and have given up speaks to something in
S1: her kind of character tenaciousness her desire to just like,
S1: make it work. And I think espresso suggests a self-awareness,
S1: a self-irony, a humor that that does make her a
S1: little bit different to someone as like maybe earnest as
S1: Billie and her music like that track, like famously like
S1: that's that's me espresso. That's the most memorable lyric of
S1: the year. People love it. You know, I'm working late
S1: because I'm a singer. Switched up like Nintendo. Like there's
S1: a fun to her that I think has helped propel
S1: her and I think makes her. I think Mid-ground is
S1: a good way of putting it. Like there's an aesthetic
S1: that is familiar, if you like the more kind of
S1: staid pop stuff, and then there is a knowingness that
S1: makes it feel a bit more exciting. And yeah.
S4: I totally agree.
S3: Probably put Olivia Rodrigo a bit in that category as well.
S2: Oseman I did want to ask. Um, obviously Chappell Roan's
S2: having a big moment. Uh, how do you feel about
S2: the fact that she went on tour in the US
S2: and Canada with the great Vance Joy in 2017? And
S2: how much of that do you attribute to her current moment?
S1: Um, probably not a lot considering taking another.
S4: Seven years to.
S1: To make it. Um, I was like late to, to Chappell.
S1: I know that we had that profile on her last year,
S1: but I only really started listening to to that record
S1: in the last couple of weeks. I really like it.
S1: It's really interesting. I thought it would sound more like, uh,
S1: good Luck babe, which I kind of enjoy, but sort
S1: of feels like a Kate Bush impersonation to me, whereas
S1: I think the album is, like really fun. That opening track,
S1: Femi Nomenon, is one of the best opening tracks I've
S1: ever heard. And again, even though I wouldn't think about
S1: it from her aesthetic and from that song from the
S1: single Good Luck Babe. But it's dancier. There's like a
S1: beat or there's a drive to it. And again, I
S1: think that is reminding us of, you know, like Lorde's
S1: Melodrama was one of the last really big dancey pop records.
S1: Dua Lipa's Future Nostalgia, another really good dancey pop record.
S1: And in the four years since, we haven't really had
S1: something with big, fun, dancey hits. I mean, Dua Lipa's
S1: most recent album didn't really hit. I think, like, there
S1: was a sound people wanted to engage with, and they
S1: were hoping it would come from some of these artists
S1: and it didn't. So they filled that gap with these others,
S1: and I kind of hope that's more the direction we
S1: go for with, with more of the just. It sounds
S1: really basic to say, but some more club dance themed pop.
S1: Bringing that back, bringing that early 2000 vibe back. I
S1: think we've had enough of the guitars and the ballads,
S1: and I think particularly because hip hop is in such
S1: a state of the doldrums at the moment, and it's like,
S1: if it's going to be country and pop, can the
S1: pop at least be something that I want to, you know,
S1: have fun to? It's going to.
S2: Be funny, like in the context of all this and
S2: obviously this new guard and then, you know like kind
S2: of Taylor overseeing everything. And then July 11th we get
S2: the new Katy Perry record, which has already had. Like
S2: a kind of weird reception, which I think you can
S2: actually look at as to what people you know are
S2: thinking about pop music right now. Because like, you've got
S2: Katy Perry, who was one of those like, you know,
S2: like back in the day, it was like her and
S2: Taylor and, you know, they kind of like dominated the landscape.
S2: She hasn't really released a record for ages. I think
S2: it's still untitled. People are calling it Cp6. Um, I
S2: think she's been working with Doctor Luke to producer who,
S2: you know, famously had that whole situation with Kesha. Um, but, like. Yeah. What? Like,
S2: where does someone like a Katy Perry then enter into
S2: the landscape, having kind of been out of the game
S2: and perhaps I feel like the general vibe on her
S2: is a bit like, uh, Katy Perry like, yeah.
S3: I think what people have heard from the kind of
S3: first single as well is not boding well. It's already
S3: become a bit of a joke. I feel like the
S3: brattiness that we're talking about with these, the new current crop,
S3: the self-awareness, is not there in kind of Katy Perry's.
S3: And it's a feminism that is maybe not as nuanced
S3: as what these women are exploring in their in their,
S3: their music. You know, it is very even raw. Like,
S3: really what we've heard of the new single is kind
S3: of like the song raw. It's we are strong, you know,
S3: it's almost like a he was a Helen. Uh, Helen
S3: Reddy was strong. Strong. We are invincible. Like that's what
S3: she's doing. But many years later. So I think it's
S3: not gonna land particularly. Well, not that we've heard the album,
S3: but from what we have heard, it's not going to
S3: land particularly well in this context.
S4: Yeah.
S1: It's so interesting the way that like, contexts that music's
S1: received and are created because we've been talking about these artists,
S1: but there's there's so many other artists that I feel
S1: like have been trying to play in this space for
S1: a while, and they've released amazing music and it's done well,
S1: but maybe, like, not popped off in the way that
S1: some of this stuff has. I think about even Troye Sivan. Right?
S1: Like rush and my mum, these are great songs who
S1: they did really well. They got good receptions, but I
S1: almost feel like if rush dropped now, while everyone is
S1: like just looking for that kind of club pop music,
S1: it would go ballistic. And I mean, he's touring with
S1: Charli XCX, so maybe he will end up with like
S1: the kind of massive success that I think he deserves.
S1: Can you.
S2: Imagine how loose those shows will.
S1: Be? Yeah, they're going to be a lot of fun.
S1: The other, the other one I've been thinking about is
S1: Carly Rae Jepsen, who again in that middle class pop
S1: tier has just been releasing some of the best pop
S1: music ever. None of it charts, really, but she's great,
S1: and I hope that she can find a way to
S1: ride this wave to.
S2: Ever since I first became friends with Oseman, I've never
S2: met a greater Carly Rae Jepsen. He posts about her
S2: like once a week being like, guys don't sleep on
S2: the new Carly Rae Jepsen track. Everyone's like, man, like
S2: Call Me maybe, I don't know. Yeah, I.
S3: Don't think I've ever met a like someone who has
S3: ever spoken about her to.
S4: Me. She is your John Mayer. Yeah, yeah.
S1: And I will happily own that because she's fucking awesome
S1: and has been slept on for like, the last ten years.
S4: I'm going to go back and.
S3: Revisit and we'll pick let's follow up next week because
S3: I'm going to go on the deep dive.
S1: Yeah. Emotion that's my Impress Your friends.
S2: I know I wasn't there obviously for the Charli XCX
S2: chat and you may have discussed this. So like just
S2: let me know. But I mean it's funny because the
S2: her album cover is having very much a like cool
S2: book Instagram moment like that is. Did you discuss it
S2: at length?
S3: No we didn't.
S1: No we didn't, we didn't. But she's made she's created
S1: a website where you can kind of generate, you know,
S1: the Bratz style iconography and font and create your memes.
S1: And it's everywhere right now, even like to the point where,
S1: like political parties are using it, which has made it
S1: a bit cringe. Yeah.
S2: And like so many people on social media have changed
S2: their like, you know, their Instagram picture to just like
S2: the lime green and their name. It's like such a
S2: genius bit of marketing. And I feel like I think
S2: I read somewhere that previously she hadn't really tapped into
S2: her record label's marketing resources. And this is the first
S2: album where she, like, let them really into the process.
S2: And I mean, maybe a good shout in retrospect, because
S2: I feel like, as simple as it is that the
S2: shocking lime green and just the one word, it's like,
S2: you know, when people do, including us, our pop culture
S2: roundups for the year that the brat cover is like
S2: one of the images of the year completely dominates.
S3: Did you see that very funny thing about how for
S3: the promo for her, um, for her tour, her promo
S3: poster is like made to look like a little what
S3: might be call it a small bag. Um. Of what? Well,
S3: you could fill it with whatever you want, but the
S3: Drug Administration board in the UK took that. It was
S3: a suggestion that you might take some party drugs to
S3: the Charli XCX. So she redid the promo with a
S3: little sandwich in the bag. Um, is.
S4: It was so good. That's really funny. Yeah.
S1: That's the kind of marketing you can't buy when like,
S1: the government's like, this is too fun, you know, tone
S1: it down. Um, all right. Before we ran out the
S1: episode with my conversation with Austin, we have to do
S1: our Impress Your Friends segment where we share something we
S1: listen to, watched, read, or consumed in the world of culture.
S1: Mine is a podcast, a fellow podcast on our network
S1: produced by our old friend, the wonderful Ruby Schwartz. Uh,
S1: it's a podcast called Trial by Water. Uh, it's hosted
S1: by investigative journalist Michael Bachelard. And it is about the, uh,
S1: Robert Farquharson. Conviction. He was convicted of killing his three
S1: children on Father's Day in 2005 by driving them into
S1: a dam. It's one of Melbourne's biggest kind of like
S1: recent crime stories, and he's been convicted and found guilty,
S1: I think twice by juries. Now, uh, Michael Bachelard is
S1: looking at that case and looking at recent developments in technology.
S1: He's unearthed some new evidence and suggesting that perhaps there's
S1: more to this case than initially meets the eye. When
S1: you consider what's gone on in the last couple of decades.
S1: And I kind of want to give too much away
S1: because it is just a really fascinating thing to listen.
S1: There's a couple of episodes to go. It's one of
S1: the best true crime podcasts I've heard. Maybe my favorite
S1: true crime podcast coming out of Australia. Couldn't recommend it.
S1: More trial by water. Find it wherever you get your podcasts.
S2: Yes, I am currently up to date. I listened to
S2: a lot of them when I was, um, overseas recently
S2: came back from New York. Not sure if you guys know,
S2: but it's it's amazing. And also it's so good hearing
S2: Ruby's voice. Like occasionally they do that like, you know,
S2: when they're traveling.
S1: I know I'm like the Leo guy pointing when it's
S1: like I'm with my producer, Ruby. I'm like, ah.
S2: I know, I know, we miss you, Ruby. Ah, but yes,
S2: that is great. And I guess, uh, a natural segue.
S2: Mine is also a podcast this week. Uh, which is odd.
S2: There you go. Um, I feel like we're really, you know,
S2: if you like podcasts where it's just friends talking like this, uh,
S2: then you will love the new podcast where everybody knows
S2: your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. So, like,
S2: it's kind of if you're a fan of Smartless, which
S2: I know, you know, people absolutely mad for, I find
S2: this one really funny. Um, obviously, you know, these guys
S2: were friends and co-stars on cheers, but it's not like
S2: a cheers nostalgia pod. It's basically just the two of them. Um,
S2: it's actually officially called Where Everybody Knows Your Name with
S2: Ted Danson and sometimes Woody Harrelson, because some episodes they
S2: just can't find him, which is like the.
S4: Most Woody Harrelson thing of.
S2: All time. But basically, uh, you know, it's your classic like,
S2: they sit down, they catch up for a bit, and
S2: then each week they have a special guest. Um, the
S2: guests are amazing Eric Andre, Will Arnett, Kristen Bell, Jane Fonda. Like, there's,
S2: you know, the kind of roll call of Hollywood stars
S2: that they're obviously all friends with. Um, but, yeah, I've
S2: always been a big fan of those, like, kind of
S2: like talky podcasts where you get to see these really
S2: famous people in a context where they're all, you know, obviously,
S2: just like long time friends chatting about their careers. So, yeah, uh,
S2: once you've listened to every single episode of The Drop
S2: and then Trial by Water, you are allowed to listen
S2: to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and
S2: Woody Harrelson.
S3: I will definitely take that up. I quite like Smartless,
S3: except I feel like when they have a guest who
S3: isn't funny, it's just quite a painful listen.
S4: Yeah, I.
S2: Know it can be, but Smartless has like, it's, you know,
S2: it's become this like huge monolith now and they're just
S2: so dominant. Um, but yeah, I really like Smartless. And
S2: this is in the same space.
S3: Oh, great. I will listen to that. And then a
S3: surprise for me, I've got, I've got a book for
S3: this week. Um, this one was a kind of random
S3: find because I was didn't have a book to take
S3: home with me, and I didn't want to be alone
S3: with my with my thoughts. So I just, I just
S3: picked this one up from my desk, which is kind
S3: of fun when you do that, right?
S4: When you I mean, to be fair, you have 1000
S4: books on.
S2: Your desk, so.
S4: I know, but usually I.
S3: Like, have a plan for the next book I'll read.
S3: And then I was just like, oh, I'll give this
S3: one a go. It's called hard by a great Forest.
S3: It's by Leo Badiashile. It's a really funny first book.
S3: It's about, um, a young man who leaves his home
S3: in Georgia with his brother and dad during Russia's occupation
S3: of South Ossetia. And then later on, he goes back
S3: to try and find his family, who have also gone
S3: back to try to resolve some stuff in their family past. Um,
S3: it's a really great read, which is all about the
S3: country's troubled past, the traumas of war, home, family, belonging,
S3: all of those things, but really funny. And essentially it
S3: is a journey story. There's a quest that he embarks on. Um,
S3: and also, I have not read much fiction about Georgia
S3: or set in Georgia. So, um, I have been annoying
S3: everyone with fun facts about Georgia lately, but I think
S3: a good read. I think you would really.
S4: Like it too.
S1: What's your funniest, um, Georgia fact?
S3: Uh, funny, feels wrong or.
S4: Just.
S3: A lot of war?
S4: They're okay. They've been through a lot.
S1: I think they invented wine. The Georgians. Yes.
S3: That actually. And there's quite a bit about the significance
S3: of wine. So I did actually say to my partner
S3: that we should get some Georgian wine over the weekend to.
S4: It's like a guilt thing.
S3: Yeah. When I read, I go all in.
S1: That's great. Well, to end the show, we have my
S1: conversation with Austin Butler, who stars in the Bikeriders. It
S1: depicts the rise and fall of an outlaw motorcycle club
S1: in America in the 1960s. The film also features Jodie Comer,
S1: Tom Hardy and Mike Feist from challenges. Austin and I
S1: spoke just after the film's Australian premiere at the Sydney
S1: Film Festival. The film is out next week on July 4th.
S1: Go watch it in the cinema. I hope you enjoy
S1: my conversation with Austin. Hey, Austin, thanks so much for
S1: joining me on the show today.
S5: It's my pleasure.
S1: Uh, we're chatting just the morning after you attended the
S1: Sydney Film Festival premiere of The Bike Riders. How are
S1: you finding Sydney so far?
S5: Well, I love Sydney. I've spent a lot of time
S5: here and I love it here. Last night was really wet.
S5: I don't know if you. You saw it there last night,
S5: but I was. Yeah.
S1: It's like a rain bomb.
S5: Apparently by the time that by the time I was
S5: doing interviews on the carpet, I was, uh, it was,
S5: it was as though I jumped in a swimming pool.
S1: I saw the photos. You looked great. Oh. Thank you.
S1: You looked really good. Um, over the last couple of years, Austin,
S1: you've been in some incredibly big productions. I mean, just
S1: this year. Dune part two, Masters of the air. Before that, Elvis,
S1: which you obviously nominated for an Oscar in the Bike Riders,
S1: feels like a much more intimate film, a bit less
S1: flashy than some of those bigger scale productions. Can you
S1: tell me a little bit about your path to getting
S1: involved with this film? What was it that attracted you
S1: to this role?
S5: Well, I mean, that's one of the elements of it
S5: is it felt different from some of the other things
S5: I've been doing. It was really Jeff Nichols. I've been
S5: a massive fan of his for a long time. Uh,
S5: I remember years ago doing a Jeff Nichols marathon at
S5: my house, just watching all of it.
S1: Oh, wow.
S5: And thinking, oh, if I could ever work with that guy,
S5: that would be incredible. So when his script came across
S5: my doorstep and I, uh, and I saw his name
S5: on it, and I. And then I read it. And
S5: this whole world, uh, I was a fan of Danny
S5: Lyons photographs and his book.
S1: Um.
S5: And then also this character, I mean. Really, you know,
S5: I mean, to be completely straightforward. It was just one
S5: of the coolest characters I'd ever read, and I immediately
S5: was just drawn to him. And I thought, how how
S5: exciting that would be to embody him for for the
S5: duration of filming.
S1: Yeah, I'm interested in the characterization because you mentioned dandelion.
S1: The source material for the bike riders is this photo
S1: book that that he, that he released and he's actually
S1: played in the movie by Mike Feist. The characters in
S1: the Bike Riders are at least a lot of them
S1: are real people. Is Benny the character you played based
S1: on one particular person, or is this a kind of
S1: amalgam or a collage of different people involved at the
S1: club at the time?
S5: Yeah, no, he's based he's he's based on a real person. And, uh,
S5: even like that, the. You know, the motorcycle police chase. That's.
S5: There's a real article, you know. Oh, wow.
S1: That was a real article you're reading out there. Reading out. That's.
S5: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it really like the amount of
S5: of stoplights or whatever that he went through and, um,
S5: and but the interesting thing about him is he was
S5: one of the few people in the club that Danny
S5: never was able to interview. So there's no interview with him.
S5: You learn about him through what Cathy says about him.
S5: You learn about him through what other people say about him.
S5: The other thing is, you never see his face in
S5: the book. You see him from behind on a motorcycle.
S5: You see him leaning over a pool table. So he's
S5: this enigma, he's this mystery. And, um, and then so
S5: I think as Jeff was crafting the story, he the
S5: first things that he said to me were, he said,
S5: I see Benny as an empty glass that everybody wants
S5: to fill with their own expectations. And and they want
S5: to put responsibilities on him, but he can't be filled. And, um,
S5: and so yeah. So that that was it was fascinating
S5: to explore somebody who was such an enigma. And so.
S1: So how did you go about trying to fill out
S1: that character? It sounds like the lines are kind of
S1: drawn around him based on what we know from the book,
S1: from what, you know, the role that he played within
S1: that club, the movie. I think like basically every piece
S1: of culture about motorcycle clubs after the 50s, it owes
S1: some of its look and feel to the wild ones.
S1: And one of the most iconic scenes is sort of
S1: mentioned and explicitly shown in the movie.
S5: Yeah. What do you got?
S1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, getting to see you and Tom
S1: Hardy do that in the same 24 hours. Very exciting
S1: for me. Um, is that is that kind of stuff
S1: James Dean, is that a reference point or were you
S1: drawing on something different as well?
S5: I mean, I obviously I've seen those films. I rewatched
S5: them when I was making this, uh, just to see
S5: if anything sparked my imagination, you know, and um, and
S5: also just to sort of study some of the filmmaking
S5: of Easy Rider or, you know, The Loveless is another
S5: one of my favorite films. And seeing Willem Dafoe just
S5: be one of the coolest people ever on a motorcycle. And.
S1: Yeah, yeah.
S5: I, uh, I so yeah, I watched all that, but
S5: I felt that for me, it was, it was getting
S5: together with people who their entire lives is motorcycles. And
S5: that's all they talk about. It's all they think about,
S5: and they know them inside and out. And so that's
S5: that's what I wanted to get in the headspace of.
S5: I wanted to get real grease under my fingernails, you know,
S5: and to learn how to take apart a motorcycle and
S5: feel that it was an extension of me in some way. Um,
S5: so I was fortunate to all the, all the bikers
S5: who let me into their world.
S1: That's fascinating. Did you have much did you have much
S1: of a relationship with motorcycles prior to getting involved in
S1: this film?
S5: I had a bit because my dad rode and my
S5: grandfather rode, um, but nothing like this.
S1: Yeah, I'd say my granddad used to ride triumphs in
S1: the 50s, and when I got old enough, I decided
S1: I wanted to to do the same thing. Yeah.
S5: That's when they shifted on the other side. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
S5: They switched it over in the 70s, I think.
S1: Totally. It was one of the things I'm keen to
S1: talk to you about the themes of the movie, but
S1: it was I know this is not necessarily the point,
S1: but at the end of the film, I was just like,
S1: God damn, did a lot of that look really cool? Like,
S1: why aren't I in a motorcycle club?
S5: Yeah, yeah, I mean, that was genuinely one of the
S5: draws of the film for me. I just it was
S5: just so damn cool, you know?
S1: And did you get to do I know that, like,
S1: whether it's through insurance or just the way that films
S1: are made, a lot of things are done on rigs
S1: and stuff. But did you actually get to get on
S1: a bike and have some fun in the making of
S1: the film?
S5: Yeah, yeah. I mean, besides a few close ups, when
S5: Jody's on the bike, it's all me riding that motorcycle.
S1: Oh, that's awesome.
S5: Without a helmet on, you know what I mean? It's
S5: I don't know how we got the film insured, necessarily.
S1: It's kind of a miracle.
S5: But, uh. But. Yeah, that's why I trained so much
S5: before I trained for many months. So that way it was.
S5: It was real, you know?
S1: That's awesome. So over the course of the film, we
S1: kind of track this club. It starts out basically kind
S1: of like a community center for this group of men
S1: who are missing something. Or maybe they're feeling a bit
S1: alienated or alone, or they've been rejected by these other institutions.
S1: Then things get a bit more sinister, as the impacts
S1: of Vietnam as an example, are felt on American society.
S1: What do you think it is about that period in America,
S1: that transition from the 60s to the 70s, that makes
S1: it such an interesting frame for storytelling like this?
S5: Well, I think it's that it's it's, you know, it's
S5: it's that fascinating thing with history how you have, you know,
S5: you have the chaos of World War Two. And then
S5: out of that comes this utopian, this, this facade of
S5: utopian 1950s white picket fence, um, that. That underneath. You know,
S5: there's still trauma and and relationships that are falling apart
S5: and all of that. But there you know, it's being
S5: worn in this sort of Stepford Wives way. And then
S5: and then the counterculture of the 60s and, um. The
S5: rebellion against that, you know, is is the pendulum swinging
S5: in the opposite direction and then how that leads way
S5: to chaos at times and, and destruction and, and like
S5: you say, I mean, you have Vietnam and and all the,
S5: the horrors of that and the trauma of that time
S5: and then, uh. And then these soldiers coming back to
S5: the States and and some of them not being treated well.
S5: And and the insanity of that time and how tricky
S5: that time was and and the also also the addictions
S5: shifting from alcohol, say, to heroin, you know, and what
S5: that also does. Um, and uh, and so it's a
S5: really volatile time, um, and, and so that that sort
S5: of the chaos of that I think is, uh, is,
S5: is quite dramatic. So I think, you know, that time period,
S5: the films of that time period, I think, really mirror that.
S1: Um, I was also struck by, I mean, and I'm
S1: interested if you if you think that I'm like over
S1: reading or over interpreting the movie, feel free to push
S1: back on this. But when I was watching it, I
S1: felt there was this contemporary social resonance as well. These ideas.
S1: So much of our political conversation is around the anxieties
S1: of lonely, frustrated, maybe like angry men, their attempts to
S1: seek out some sort of catharsis and meaning similar to
S1: previous periods we've lived through. Do you think the kinds
S1: of characters that we see in the bike Riders, like
S1: we're still missing something as a society for these kinds
S1: of people to give them some more meaning?
S6: You know. I think.
S5: I think that human nature is. There's a there's a
S5: universal element in human nature. And, um, and so I
S5: think that's why, uh, regardless of time or place, you're
S5: going to have certain themes of, of the human condition. Um,
S5: so I suppose that that would be accurate.
S1: I hadn't really thought about it until I was talking
S1: to you, but we're talking about a movie that is
S1: like a bit of a period piece. It's kind of
S1: been what you've done a lot of lately. Like, I mean,
S1: Elvis is a movie set in another period, Masters of
S1: the air, I mean, Dune Part two, obviously. Like, not
S1: necessarily the 1950s.
S5: I made up for it by going way in the
S5: future with that one. Just like bring the average down. Yeah.
S1: It averages out somewhere in like 22,100 or something like that. Yeah. Um,
S1: are you thinking about are you curious about doing something
S1: that feels more contemporary, or are you happy exploring these
S1: different times and worlds for the moment? Yeah.
S6: You know, it wasn't it wasn't intentional, really.
S5: It's just these are the characters and filmmakers and stories
S5: that were the most compelling, um, at the time. Uh, and, uh,
S5: but I do. I always want.
S6: To.
S5: Explore new things and and challenge myself in different ways. And, uh, yeah,
S5: the next two films that I'm doing are more are
S5: more modern. So. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Exciting. Um, one of my favorite up and coming
S1: Australian actors has a bit of screen time in this movie.
S1: Toby Wallace I'm not sure if you guys are actually
S1: in scenes together, but did you did you get to
S1: get to know Toby at all?
S5: Well, yeah, we got to hang out and we rode
S5: motorcycles together, and, um, I love Toby. I just I
S5: spoke to him. We spoke this morning. Um, but I, uh. Yeah, I, um.
S5: I Loved Him and Baby Teeth, which I thought was
S5: incredible and such.
S1: A good film.
S5: We have a lot of mutual friends, and so I
S5: was looking forward to meeting him and, and and yeah,
S5: we don't really have scenes together, I don't think. But
S5: we we did we got to hang out and, uh,
S5: I really fond memories of of looking over him. We
S5: late at night we rode motorcycles over this bridge in
S5: Cincinnati and, uh, and we just were racing over this
S5: bridge together, and that was that was a good memory
S5: that I have.
S1: That's awesome. One of my favorite things about the bike
S1: riders is like this multi-generational, that guy sort of thing
S1: going on. You know, Jeff Nichols loves working with Michael Shannon.
S1: He pops up in this in an awesome role. You
S1: know someone, you're there, you've got another generation coming through.
S1: It was really cool to just see all this talent
S1: on screen at the same time. That's so.
S5: Cool. Yeah.
S1: Um, in terms of, um, movies, just to question sort
S1: of a bit sideways to the bike rider specifically, there's
S1: a lot of conversation this year about the state of
S1: the box office and where things are going. I mean,
S1: June again is a really big, massive success, but there's
S1: been a couple of films that probably didn't hit the
S1: way people were expecting. A lot of audiences seem more
S1: keen to wait for things to hit streaming for whatever reason.
S1: Is there something you think about, like you were at
S1: all worried about the trajectory of cinemas? And if audiences
S1: are going to go and see these things and that
S1: sort of environment?
S5: It's something I think about a lot. I was speaking
S5: about it at dinner last night and just, uh.
S6: It.
S5: Yeah, I, I love the experience personally of going to
S5: the movies. I love it deeply and I, I have
S5: such a nostalgia of going with my parents as a
S5: kid and the smell of popcorn and sitting down and
S5: the lights, the lights going down and communing with strangers
S5: and immersing yourself in this film. And I also love
S5: the experience of putting your phone away and actually being
S5: present for the duration of a film. And, um, and
S5: so I think there's nothing like that where you don't
S5: have distractions and you're just, you're allowing yourself to, to
S5: disappear for a bit into this other world. And, um,
S5: but like you say, it is it is it definitely.
S5: You notice a difference in, in, uh. And what gets
S5: people to to actually go out to the theater now.
S5: And I hope that I hope the more more people well,
S5: I just hope it stays alive. You know, I really
S5: I love the experience so much and I know so
S5: many people do and um, and yeah, so I hope
S5: I hope it really, you know. And like, I don't
S5: even know what it is. I kind of wanted to
S5: say for a second, like, I hope it has a
S5: resurgence or like something I think people are still for
S5: the right for certain films. People still are really gone.
S5: I mean, look at Barbie and Oppenheimer and. Absolutely. And
S5: Dune was that was amazing to see everybody come out
S5: for that. And but you never know. And uh, and
S5: so yeah, I hope people are really come out I. Yeah.
S5: What do you.
S1: Think uh man I agree. I mean Barbie and Oppenheimer,
S1: it feels like got people excited and then I don't
S1: know whether it was the combination of the strikes or
S1: just like, you know, the economy or whatever it is
S1: going on. And a couple of things being shifted out
S1: of schedule. But I think it would be so sad
S1: if we didn't have that collective experience to meet. Going
S1: to the films with one another is great. I mean,
S1: I think the bike riders, you can watch that at home,
S1: but watching that, hearing that sound, that's not being distracted,
S1: I think, like you said, putting your phone away is
S1: such an important part of what this art form is about. Yeah,
S1: it's important.
S5: Part of being human as well. It's like there's something
S5: in I always think about because there's always these questions of,
S5: of like is what's what's the sort of meaning behind,
S5: you know, how you spend your time and whatnot. And
S5: I think of how, you know, there's something in the
S5: human condition where we've been telling stories around campfire since
S5: the dawn of time. And, uh, and so to have
S5: that experience where you're not just constantly being distracted by
S5: a seven second video and going on to the next
S5: thing and actually, you know, taking in a story, I
S5: think is, is something that speaks to the soul in
S5: some way.
S1: Uh, Austin, thank you so much for your time. That's
S1: a perfect note to end on. Thank you. Appreciate it man.
S5: Thank you for your time.
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share the episode
S1: with a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week!