WEBVTT - Why Collaboration is Key to Creativity

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<v Speaker 1>Good day, Welcome to the podcast is Better than Yesterday.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for downloading it. This show is does what it

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<v Speaker 1>says in the box. We've got useful tools and useful

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<v Speaker 1>conversations to make your day better than yesterday, and we're

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<v Speaker 1>doing it every single week since twenty thirteen. My am

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<v Speaker 1>Josh Againsberg. I'm very glad you here. We have a

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<v Speaker 1>live show. A new live show is happening on the

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<v Speaker 1>sixth of July at the Factory Theater in Marrickville. Huge cast,

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<v Speaker 1>Marley Silver, Merrick Watts, Phil O'Neill, Yeah, Ugly Phil, Nadia Townshend,

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<v Speaker 1>Zoe Dot and Lodge and myself. The theme of the

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<v Speaker 1>show everybody needs good neighbors, live comedy, storytelling, early doors.

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<v Speaker 1>You'll be home by nine. I'd love to see you there.

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<v Speaker 1>The linkers in the show notes and that is also

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<v Speaker 1>where you can pre order your copy of my brand

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<v Speaker 1>new books, So What Now What, illustrated by Campbell Walker.

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<v Speaker 1>If you like this podcast, so this podcast has been

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<v Speaker 1>bringing you value. The greatest way you can repay me

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<v Speaker 1>for any good thing that you've got ever out of

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<v Speaker 1>this show is to pre order that book, because that

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<v Speaker 1>sends a huge signal to the publisher that this book

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<v Speaker 1>is worth getting behind. The partners really want it, particularly

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<v Speaker 1>if you look in Australia. We also have a live

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<v Speaker 1>show we're coming up very very soon. I can't wait

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<v Speaker 1>to tell you about that stuff. We did the first

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<v Speaker 1>technical test the other day and it's incredible. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>please bring order the book, and if you do so,

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<v Speaker 1>take a screenshot of your proof of purchase and I'll

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<v Speaker 1>send you a little something to say thank you. Send

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<v Speaker 1>out an email at gmail dot com, just email it

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<v Speaker 1>to me. For a long time. Through popular culture, through movies,

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<v Speaker 1>through books, or whatever, we kind of have this heroic

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<v Speaker 1>vision of a singular creative genius, the solo man or

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<v Speaker 1>the solo woman who just has this incredible breakthrough. But

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<v Speaker 1>what if the greatest ideas aren't found in isolation, but

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<v Speaker 1>only emerge when we truly open ourselves up to be

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<v Speaker 1>influenced by the brilliance of other people. I've been thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about those questions quite a lot, and we'll get to

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<v Speaker 1>the answers right after this. It's really hard to start

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<v Speaker 1>from scratch. Starting anything from scratch is very very difficult.

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<v Speaker 1>Going from absolutely nothing to a fully formed idea is really,

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<v Speaker 1>really tough. It's like trying to pull a rabbit out

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<v Speaker 1>of a hat, except you don't know what a rabbit is,

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<v Speaker 1>or you don't have a hat, let alone. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>know what magic is? You kind of know you want

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<v Speaker 1>to do something, need kind of need something to react to.

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<v Speaker 1>And I have found that when it comes to creativity,

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to coming up with ideas, even if

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<v Speaker 1>their ideas in a completely different direction, I have found

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<v Speaker 1>that having something to react to the tiniest spark of anything,

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<v Speaker 1>the whole process becomes infinitely easy. That's a whole reason

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<v Speaker 1>why when I'm working, when I'm writing, when I'm creating,

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<v Speaker 1>I actually make time to go and do stuff that

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<v Speaker 1>isn't working right and create, go and see things, experience things,

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<v Speaker 1>to do things so that I have something to react to.

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<v Speaker 1>So I give myself subconscious something to think about, something

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<v Speaker 1>to respond to. And this idea of having something to

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<v Speaker 1>react to was a big breakthrough moment when I started

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<v Speaker 1>working on this new book somewha now what, because I

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<v Speaker 1>knew I wanted it to be illustrated and to be honest,

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<v Speaker 1>it was always going to be Cam Walker, also known

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<v Speaker 1>as Truthless. And if you don't know Cam's work, I

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<v Speaker 1>thoroughly recommend you're checking him out. I've worked with him

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time. He's an artist I've admired for

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<v Speaker 1>a very very long time. I have huge, huge respect

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<v Speaker 1>for him. He's incredibly successful, and he was really the

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<v Speaker 1>only person I ever really wanted to do the book.

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<v Speaker 1>But when it came time to ask him, I was

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<v Speaker 1>kind of apprehensive because I'm he's very accomplished person. He's

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<v Speaker 1>worked in the ad industry, He's worked he huge clients,

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<v Speaker 1>massive footwear, beverages. He's really a very highly regarded person internationally.

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<v Speaker 1>Could I keep up? Would I be able to engage

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<v Speaker 1>in work at that kind of level? Would I be

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<v Speaker 1>able to properly contribute? Would I hold him back? Would

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<v Speaker 1>I be frustrating to work with? I didn't want to

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<v Speaker 1>sour our friendship by being a shit person to collaborate with.

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<v Speaker 1>But here's the funny thing, Deep inside, somewhere, way way

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<v Speaker 1>way down, down down, kind of knew that I was

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<v Speaker 1>going to need to be able to give something to

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<v Speaker 1>Cam to react to. I was going to need to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to give Cam something more than just describing

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<v Speaker 1>what it was that I wanted. So about six months

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<v Speaker 1>before I even asked Ham to illustrate this book. I

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<v Speaker 1>started sketching again, aside from a very brief period where

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<v Speaker 1>I toyed with replicating how my favorite comic book artists

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<v Speaker 1>could draw human figures, about twelve thirteen years ago. I

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<v Speaker 1>haven't picked up a pencil and put it to a

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<v Speaker 1>heavy GSM paper since about nineteen eighty six, when I

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<v Speaker 1>was in primary school art class, so a really really

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<v Speaker 1>long time ago. But I knew I was going to

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<v Speaker 1>need to give cam something to work off. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>when I remembered my dad. He was a doctor and

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<v Speaker 1>in the evenings, as a way to relax, he would

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<v Speaker 1>listen to jazz music and smoke a pipe because that's

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<v Speaker 1>what you did when you're from Europe. I sit on

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<v Speaker 1>a bean bag and using mechanical pencils, rot drink mechanical pencils.

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<v Speaker 1>It was his one shop in Brisbane. We used to

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<v Speaker 1>go to get them, those big, heavy metal things, so

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<v Speaker 1>I think for draftsmen and architects and things to use.

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<v Speaker 1>And he would draw these kind of shaded geometric shapes,

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<v Speaker 1>cubes and spheres and cones, just vanishing into perspective. I

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<v Speaker 1>was always fascinated by that he was doing these repetitive

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<v Speaker 1>kind of tessellations as he listened to jazz music and

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<v Speaker 1>just do it for hours. So about six months ago,

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<v Speaker 1>well six months before I hours Cam, I started practicing

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<v Speaker 1>what I'd seen my dad do. Look, I didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>a bean bag, nor do I smoke anymore, but I

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<v Speaker 1>just draw. Now. I still didn't know what the main

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<v Speaker 1>character of my book was going to look like, but

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<v Speaker 1>I was just drawing shapes, cubes and trying and cylinders,

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<v Speaker 1>because all of nature drawing anything as cubes and triangles

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<v Speaker 1>and cylinders and rectangles. So sure enough, when I finally

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<v Speaker 1>landed on the lead character of So What Now What,

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<v Speaker 1>and I just came to the acceptance like, oh, Cricky,

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to be really hard, but I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>need the lead character to be a glove. I knew

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<v Speaker 1>that I had to be good. I had to get

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<v Speaker 1>better because hands are really, really, really hard to draw.

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<v Speaker 1>As you heard Cam and I discussed the other Monday,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a reason why comic book characters usually only have

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<v Speaker 1>three fingers sometimes for and they always wear gloves because

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<v Speaker 1>hands are really hard. They're incredibly expressive things, as Cam

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<v Speaker 1>Walker says, they are the eyebrow of their arm, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're very very tricky to draw. So because of the

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<v Speaker 1>work that I've been doing, when I did finally ask

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<v Speaker 1>Cam Hay and he was like really into it. He

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<v Speaker 1>was so excited. I was able to so write the words,

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<v Speaker 1>this are the words that I want the book to be.

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<v Speaker 1>And in this particular moment, I see this glove running

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<v Speaker 1>away from this thing, and I was able to draw

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<v Speaker 1>it with the kind of facial reactions and the sketches

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<v Speaker 1>and stuff that I would want it to do. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>this isn't at all about me going how great artistically

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<v Speaker 1>I am and how much of an excellent sketch artist

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<v Speaker 1>I am, because I'm not. It was about giving Cam

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<v Speaker 1>something to start with, something concrete to react to. And

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<v Speaker 1>what it did was it made at our collaboration incredibly efficient,

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<v Speaker 1>just being able to understand the same vibe of where

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<v Speaker 1>we were going. Now, the other really crucial thing about

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<v Speaker 1>working with Cam was understanding my place in this. I

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<v Speaker 1>am not an expert illustrator. Cam is If in Cam's

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<v Speaker 1>expert opinion, this particular picture that we've ended up with

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<v Speaker 1>is great, then guess what that pictures great? And that's

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<v Speaker 1>the picture that goes in the book. He would say

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<v Speaker 1>things like, well, I kind of see that Globy was

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<v Speaker 1>trying to do this, and so I made this happen.

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<v Speaker 1>You're like perfect. I would never have thought of that.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes it even better. No notes, Because there was

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<v Speaker 1>a time when my ego would really get in a way,

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<v Speaker 1>back when I was working in television and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 1>I would be very selfish on whose idea and who

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<v Speaker 1>owned the idea. And you can waste so much time

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<v Speaker 1>with endless notes and tweaks and adjustments and try to

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<v Speaker 1>make everything fit this exact kind of singular vision of

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<v Speaker 1>this has to be what it is. But thankfully I've

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<v Speaker 1>learned in the last ten twelve years or so that

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<v Speaker 1>if you try and push and pull everyone to conform

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<v Speaker 1>to only your idea, it does make people less enthusiastic

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<v Speaker 1>about being involved because they don't tend to get their

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<v Speaker 1>own input. And that's important for people to have their

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<v Speaker 1>own input in the project. But if I can put

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<v Speaker 1>my ego aside and truly believe that everybody else there

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<v Speaker 1>might just be able to add something that I haven't

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<v Speaker 1>thought of, something that is going to make this initial

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<v Speaker 1>idea even more excellent, then that's only going to make

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<v Speaker 1>the final output, final product, whatever it is we're making

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<v Speaker 1>TV show book, it's going to make the final thing

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<v Speaker 1>even better. And I reckon that was mostly true. If

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<v Speaker 1>there's one hundred and twenty eight or so pages in

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<v Speaker 1>the book, there's probably three illustrations where I was really

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<v Speaker 1>particular and said, you know, I love what you've gone

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<v Speaker 1>with this, but actually for this one, just this one,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it just needs to be this simple. It

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<v Speaker 1>can't be any And that was only ever it. I

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<v Speaker 1>just didn't want anything to confuse those really powerful punching

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<v Speaker 1>moments in the book. And Cam was super cool about it,

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<v Speaker 1>because he's an excellent collaborator as well. That was also

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<v Speaker 1>quite useful. But everything that Cam brought to the table

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<v Speaker 1>only made this book more incredible. And that's the point

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<v Speaker 1>of a great collaboration, isn't it. By adding two people's

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<v Speaker 1>ideas together, you end up with even better ideas than

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<v Speaker 1>just the two of them could have ever come up with.

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<v Speaker 1>You're creating something far more superior to what either of

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<v Speaker 1>you could have achieved a loan. And it's totally okay

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<v Speaker 1>if they're not all your ideas, all right, It's like

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<v Speaker 1>when we were making the news show the Best Droke wins,

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<v Speaker 1>that's it. I don't care who says it, who writes

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't matter best Droke wins. That's always for the

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<v Speaker 1>best because if you're trusting other people on the team,

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<v Speaker 1>you believe in their expertise, believe that they are wanting

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<v Speaker 1>their final project to six it as well, then you

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<v Speaker 1>know they're going to do their best. And just because

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<v Speaker 1>you may not understand doesn't mean it's not incredible, because

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<v Speaker 1>they might be giving you some sort of next level

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<v Speaker 1>shit that no one's ever thought of, and if you

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<v Speaker 1>can believe their expertise, it's incredibly rewarding for everybody involved.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's there's a truly wonderful feeling as well of

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<v Speaker 1>just letting go of that precise vision that I had

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<v Speaker 1>in my mind. Sometimes now sometimes yeah, like Cam would

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<v Speaker 1>bring me an idea something for then me to react

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<v Speaker 1>back to, and we'll have a trusting space between us

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<v Speaker 1>to go you know what, man, I think the original

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<v Speaker 1>idea that you brought was actually more powerful here. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's fine too, because it allowed us to explore other possibilities,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's important to kind of see what both final

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<v Speaker 1>pictures look like and then you can go actually know

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<v Speaker 1>this is it, This is actually the one so I've

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<v Speaker 1>got to take a quick break. But on the other

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<v Speaker 1>side of this, I just I want to distill all

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<v Speaker 1>those down into four really simple points and really one

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<v Speaker 1>real main, main, main question that I want you to

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<v Speaker 1>ask yourself, if you're ever collaborating with anybody, be right back.

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<v Speaker 1>When I think about what I've learned about collaborating. Any

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<v Speaker 1>TV show I may ever made was always a collaboration,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes with one hundred and fifteen other people. It was

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<v Speaker 1>always more rewarding and always more fun when I thought

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<v Speaker 1>about it as this is something we're all doing together,

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<v Speaker 1>early on, before I got sober and when I was

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<v Speaker 1>very at my own ass, if I ever thought about it,

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<v Speaker 1>how can I make this make me look more good

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<v Speaker 1>about me? It was always a punish and it was

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<v Speaker 1>always hard, and it wasn't fun. But when I think

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<v Speaker 1>about it in the context of how can all of

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<v Speaker 1>us benefit from all of this, it's always better, always better,

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<v Speaker 1>because then you're also thinking about it together. You're thinking, well,

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<v Speaker 1>what is it we're trying to do with is what's

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<v Speaker 1>the job that this thing does? What truly matters in

0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.440
<v Speaker 1>any project, TV show, group holiday with a family with

0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:14.200
<v Speaker 1>your friends, some real estate project, I don't know. Well,

0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.640
<v Speaker 1>only really matters is what's the job this thing is

0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.160
<v Speaker 1>here to do? In the instance of so what now

0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.719
<v Speaker 1>what this book? It's supposed to be a tool. It's

0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.000
<v Speaker 1>a resource that people can use when they're having a

0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:31.120
<v Speaker 1>tough time. And our goal it's how can I make

0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.240
<v Speaker 1>this book as useful as possible to as many people

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.120
<v Speaker 1>as possible, as valuable a tool for someone who's having

0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:41.040
<v Speaker 1>a bad day. So when Cam and I were able

0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:42.760
<v Speaker 1>to put all of our own ego aside, and it's

0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.439
<v Speaker 1>not as easy for Cam to do, both of our

0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.080
<v Speaker 1>work is completely aligning with the value and the job

0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.120
<v Speaker 1>that this book is trying to do, the value it's

0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.520
<v Speaker 1>trying to bring to people's lives. It made it super

0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:57.520
<v Speaker 1>duper easy. So if you're working with somebody else right now,

0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.840
<v Speaker 1>his four simple, simple, simple, simple, simple questions to ask

0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:06.280
<v Speaker 1>around collaborating powerfully. The question number one, what's the ultimate

0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.880
<v Speaker 1>value you want to bring through this project for anyone

0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.720
<v Speaker 1>that's going to experience it or use it. Get really

0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:13.760
<v Speaker 1>clear on that value. What is the thing that you

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:15.960
<v Speaker 1>need at the end. So if it's the family holiday,

0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.400
<v Speaker 1>it's not I want to go on a holiday to

0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:20.199
<v Speaker 1>the cold coast what do you really want out of

0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.199
<v Speaker 1>a holiday? I want a time that my family will remember.

0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.120
<v Speaker 1>I want to have memories that I can share with

0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:31.000
<v Speaker 1>my family. Okay, great. The second thing, what can I

0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.000
<v Speaker 1>give everybody else to react to? Don't expect people to

0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.360
<v Speaker 1>come up with ideas out of thin air. If you

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.880
<v Speaker 1>offer a starting point, even a rough idea, just a

0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:44.160
<v Speaker 1>simple sketch, that makes the collaborative process a lot easier

0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.200
<v Speaker 1>for everybody. The third thing I would say is try

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.800
<v Speaker 1>to put your ego aside, Embrace the expertise of other people,

0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.200
<v Speaker 1>Recognize that their contributions can make your ideas even better.

0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.560
<v Speaker 1>Be open to other perspectives, trust their judgment in the

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.840
<v Speaker 1>areas of expertise they that are greater than yours, and

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.080
<v Speaker 1>just trust that they are into this thing succeeding as

0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.280
<v Speaker 1>much as you are. And the fourth thing I would

0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.640
<v Speaker 1>say is try to align on that shared purpose and

0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 1>that value. When everyone's focused on the benefit of the outcome,

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.480
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't matter whose idea it was. It really doesn't.

0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 1>What matters is achieving the goal of the job that

0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.960
<v Speaker 1>this thing is here to do. You want incredible memories

0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 1>with your kids, doesn't matter whose idea it was To

0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.440
<v Speaker 1>go to work and wild they'll still be talking about

0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.720
<v Speaker 1>everybody going down the big tube slide at someone's twenty first,

0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:38.480
<v Speaker 1>And that's what you really want out of it, isn't it?

0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.920
<v Speaker 1>The other thing it's just really incredible at working on

0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.400
<v Speaker 1>this book is I got to work with Cam fucking Walkerman,

0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 1>the guys Wise Wise Wise. And the other night when

0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 1>we were on the cusp of sending out the first

0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 1>review copies to people, and I texted Cam when I said,

0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you've done plenty of videos about this moment,

0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.960
<v Speaker 1>and this moment is is my idea too fucking out? There?

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.240
<v Speaker 1>Is anybody going to get it? You know, this idea

0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.480
<v Speaker 1>of a book where a glove is talking directly to

0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 1>the reader. And Cam wrote back to me those two

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.760
<v Speaker 1>questions have generally been the experience of my life, But

0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.640
<v Speaker 1>sometimes I think the opposite questions are worth asking too.

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Question one is my idea too boring? And question two?

0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Will anybody get it? So easily? It feels condescending. Now

0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.240
<v Speaker 1>those two things hit me in the chest like a

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:42.280
<v Speaker 1>street fighter hadukin. But they're really really important. So you've

0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.440
<v Speaker 1>got your four steps of collaborating really well, but maybe

0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:51.480
<v Speaker 1>ask those ones is my idea too boring? Will anybody

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.760
<v Speaker 1>get it so easily that it feels condescending? Maybe ask

0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:56.960
<v Speaker 1>those as well, so you can challenge you and your

0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 1>collaboration partners to really really swing for the fences. I

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.760
<v Speaker 1>hope this has brought you some value. I hope you've

0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:09.120
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed this today. I've really enjoyed talking about it because,

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:11.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, I was asked to reflect on what it

0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.680
<v Speaker 1>was to collaborate with Cam and it was really freeing

0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:20.560
<v Speaker 1>and really delightful watching what could be possible when I

0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.760
<v Speaker 1>let go of ego and just trusted, trusted that both

0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.640
<v Speaker 1>people's ideas would make this thing even greater. You can

0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:30.320
<v Speaker 1>pre order your copy of the book right now if

0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 1>you like, and you'll find a link in the show notes.

0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Adam bunch Of for making the show. Talked to

0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:41.040
<v Speaker 1>you on Wednesday.