WEBVTT - Navigating the Out-of-Body Experience

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<v Speaker 1>Doesn't matter if it's the longest day of the year

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<v Speaker 1>or the shortest day of the year. We do the

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<v Speaker 1>Paranormal Show and we do this every Friday morning because

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<v Speaker 1>we thought, what can we do during the week that

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<v Speaker 1>we think would keep you entertained. And one of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that Brian Wiltche used to do on two GB Overnight,

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<v Speaker 1>the King of the Overnight Show, was he used to

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<v Speaker 1>do a lot of the paranormal staff, the UFO staff,

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<v Speaker 1>and we thought, well, that's really great. I wonder if

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<v Speaker 1>our listeners will be interested in that. So we scour

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<v Speaker 1>the internet to find people who are really interesting and

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<v Speaker 1>have really interesting experiences and stories to tell. One of

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<v Speaker 1>my favorites, of course, is Moira on the Central Coast,

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<v Speaker 1>who's written books about UFOs and she's always good for

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<v Speaker 1>a chat. But we've had white witches, we've had ghost hunters,

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<v Speaker 1>and our guess this morning is in the UK. He's

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<v Speaker 1>an author and specialist on astral projection and out of

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<v Speaker 1>body experiences and he's got a book about this and

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<v Speaker 1>his name is Graham Nichols. Good morning to you. So

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<v Speaker 1>how did you get involved in this? When did this first?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I initially had some experiences when I was around

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<v Speaker 2>eleven or twelve years old and basically was curious what

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<v Speaker 2>this strange experience was and started to look into it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I found a scientific book on the topic and

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<v Speaker 2>basically then went from there, started to teach myself how

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<v Speaker 2>to do it, and developed an interest in the whole area.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically, So you were eleven years of age when you

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<v Speaker 1>decided to look into this.

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<v Speaker 2>I had the first experiences when I was eleven. I

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<v Speaker 2>was about thirteen when I got the book and started

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<v Speaker 2>to look into it more deeply.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so what was the experience that set you off

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<v Speaker 1>on this journey?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, basically, I found myself floating out of my body.

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<v Speaker 2>Like it's actually not that uncommon an experience percent or

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<v Speaker 2>so if people have them. But I found myself not

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<v Speaker 2>in the room that I was physically in, but I

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<v Speaker 2>found myself at a distance down the road essentially and

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<v Speaker 2>was sort of a few feet off the ground. It

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<v Speaker 2>was intensely vivid and real. I wasn't asleep, so I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't dreaming or anything like that. I was just kind

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<v Speaker 2>of relaxing. I just got back from school, was just relaxing,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I kind of went into this altered state

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<v Speaker 2>which is now I understand a precursor. Often people get

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<v Speaker 2>a vibrational sensation, which is also what happened with me.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure it happened on that occasion, but it

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<v Speaker 2>does happen usually, and then found myself in another location.

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<v Speaker 3>Essentially, I've had.

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<v Speaker 1>This happen to me twice, and I looked into it

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<v Speaker 1>and somebody said to me that this often happens when

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<v Speaker 1>you were under extreme stress or you're in a situation

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<v Speaker 1>of duress and you tried to escape your body, which

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<v Speaker 1>is different to what you said to me. But what

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<v Speaker 1>happened to me was on both occasions petrified me, absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>petrified me. And I was asleep, fast asleep, but felt

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<v Speaker 1>myself lifting up out of my body. And then I

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<v Speaker 1>remember trying to turn to my girlfriend and shake her

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<v Speaker 1>arm to wake her up and say, you know what

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<v Speaker 1>was going on, but my body wasn't reacting to that

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<v Speaker 1>at all. And then I came crashing back with a thud,

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<v Speaker 1>and I had all kinds of pins and needles going

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<v Speaker 1>through me. And I know for a fact this happened

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<v Speaker 1>because it happened twice, and I know for a fact

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<v Speaker 1>I wasn't dreaming, because it was I was so petrified

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<v Speaker 1>by the whole experience. Is that similar to what we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about here.

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<v Speaker 3>It might be a slightly different thing.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of people tend to have fear responses and

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<v Speaker 2>wake up in the middle of the night and have

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<v Speaker 2>similar type experiences related to sleep paralysis, which is where

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<v Speaker 2>like a waking nightmare, you wake up in the middle

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<v Speaker 2>of the night terrified. Usually you can't move physically, and

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<v Speaker 2>often there's a sense of presence in the room. But

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people do also have sensations of leaving

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<v Speaker 2>the body and things like that. So I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>a slightly different category of experience, maybe related. We don't

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<v Speaker 2>know enough yet in terms of the science of what's

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<v Speaker 2>going on to really know how related different types of

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<v Speaker 2>experience are, but I think they're all on a kind

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<v Speaker 2>of continuum of different forms of spiritual or paranormal or

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<v Speaker 2>psychological experience, depending on how you look at it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I didn't think paranormal, and even as I get

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<v Speaker 1>further on in life, I still look at it as

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<v Speaker 1>being somewhat of a spiritual experience. But you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>know that I wasn't dreaming. I know for a fact

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<v Speaker 1>that this actually happened, because there's no doubt in my mind.

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<v Speaker 1>I can still remember it now, and this was forty

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<v Speaker 1>odd years ago, the first time it's only happened to us,

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, I can exactly remember the experience in

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<v Speaker 1>remembering how terrified I was of this me after you'd

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<v Speaker 1>done some study what happened then.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I basically started to have the experiences regularly. I

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<v Speaker 2>got interested in the science on the topic. So now

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<v Speaker 2>I'm involved in different parapsychological experiments and also organizations. I

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<v Speaker 2>work with the Rhine Research Center in the US, which

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<v Speaker 2>is the oldest organization of that type in the US,

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<v Speaker 2>and I basically do research to try and find out

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<v Speaker 2>what might be really going on. And I'm really interested

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<v Speaker 2>in both what actually is happening, because there's how it

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<v Speaker 2>feels to us, and then there's what might really be

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<v Speaker 2>going on. So those two things are different, I think.

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<v Speaker 2>And then also on top of that, I'm interested in

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<v Speaker 2>how I can help other people have.

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<v Speaker 3>The experiences as well.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's the thing that a lot of people are

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<v Speaker 2>curious and interested to have their own experiences.

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<v Speaker 3>So those are the sort of things I focus on. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of awareness of our physical bodies and

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<v Speaker 1>for a lot of people. Their physical body is all

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<v Speaker 1>there is. You know, they never ever think about the

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<v Speaker 1>spiritual side of it. I never ever dip their toe

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<v Speaker 1>in that. Other people go to the periphery I guess

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<v Speaker 1>of the spiritual world, where they go to transcendental meditation

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<v Speaker 1>or some kind of meditation. I take it that this

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<v Speaker 1>is the next step beyond that, or three or four

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<v Speaker 1>steps beyond that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think it's a way

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<v Speaker 2>to I guess, ask those questions or experience those things

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<v Speaker 2>more directly. I think with meditation you get that sense

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<v Speaker 2>of calm. It can lead to a feeling of non

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<v Speaker 2>duality or a higher spiritual sense. But then there's also

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<v Speaker 2>going beyond that kind of situation where you actually experience

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<v Speaker 2>your whole reality or a whole sensory self, as being

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<v Speaker 2>separate from your physical body. I don't know that that's

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<v Speaker 2>really what happens. I do take quite a scientific angle

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<v Speaker 2>on it. But at the same time, I think we

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<v Speaker 2>can only really explore it by having the experience directly

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<v Speaker 2>and learning what we can about it.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you're having this experience, could you talk us

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<v Speaker 1>through what happens?

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<v Speaker 3>Well?

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<v Speaker 2>With me, now, it tends to be that I will

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<v Speaker 2>find myself at another location sort of instantaneously, So there's

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<v Speaker 2>a kind of trance process that.

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<v Speaker 3>I go through.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's almost like something like self hypnosis or meditation.

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<v Speaker 3>Even so I'll sit down, I'll.

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<v Speaker 2>Lay down, go through a sort of mental process a

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<v Speaker 2>bit like hypnosis, and then I start.

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<v Speaker 3>To go into an altered state.

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<v Speaker 2>And then usually we'll feel something like waves of energy

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<v Speaker 2>that feel very electrical, which is a form of the

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<v Speaker 2>vibrational state that is commonly described.

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<v Speaker 3>With our body experiences.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I'll find myself. Usually it's almost like I

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<v Speaker 2>shift from one place to another, and I'll find myself

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<v Speaker 2>in another location.

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<v Speaker 3>It will be very vivid.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes different forms of color and lights, and my visual

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<v Speaker 2>field will be different to how it is physically. Other

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<v Speaker 2>times it will look very similar, and I'll be able

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of move around, drift around, you interact with

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<v Speaker 2>the environment to some degree.

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<v Speaker 3>Then there are experiences that seem.

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<v Speaker 2>To be on other levels of reality altogether, which go

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<v Speaker 2>into the more spiritual levels that it's very hard to

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<v Speaker 2>know objectively whether that's all completely real or whether it's

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<v Speaker 2>partially real. I think there's a good argument for there's

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<v Speaker 2>a combination of factors going on without our body experiences.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, so there's a whole kind of range.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I've had very powerful experiences, like precognitive experiences

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<v Speaker 2>that seem to allow me to see something before it happens.

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<v Speaker 2>That one was of the so Hope bombing that happened

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<v Speaker 2>in ninety nine in London, and I had an experience

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<v Speaker 2>of that five days before it happened. And that out

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<v Speaker 2>of body experience that was for other people in the

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<v Speaker 2>room with me when it happened. So it's a really

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<v Speaker 2>interesting experience because it was sort of could be verified

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<v Speaker 2>by others as having happened before the event happened.

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<v Speaker 1>So talk to me about what goes on when this happens.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, are you aware of what's actually happening.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's often a very physical sense. You can move

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<v Speaker 2>through objects sometimes and there's a you almost like feel

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<v Speaker 2>the object. There's a sense of movement. Wind would be present,

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<v Speaker 2>not usually, smell interestingly sometimes sound not always. But the

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<v Speaker 2>main experience is more visual and sort of kinetic and

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<v Speaker 2>physical sort of like sensations. Those are the main ones.

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<v Speaker 1>There's been parallels drawn between this and near death experiences.

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<v Speaker 1>Are they related? Do you think this kind of experience.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that an our body experience is an aspect

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<v Speaker 2>of a near death experience. Often people when they have

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<v Speaker 2>a NEAREDIF experience, will have the same sensation of lifting

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<v Speaker 2>out of their physical body, going to a different location,

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes traveling along a tunnel. Things like that can often

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<v Speaker 2>happen as part of a near DEIF experience. But with

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<v Speaker 2>a NEAREDIF experiences often other elements like coming to another world,

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<v Speaker 2>seeing relatives who've passed over, that kind of thing. So

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<v Speaker 2>it can have other elements that are not present in

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<v Speaker 2>the outer body experience, but the outer body experience is

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<v Speaker 2>often a component of the near death experience.

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<v Speaker 1>It's funny, isn't it, because people who would be cynical

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<v Speaker 1>about this would actually believe in other body experiences from

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<v Speaker 1>a near death experience, maybe because that's got more publicity.

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<v Speaker 3>What do you think, Yeah, that could be the case.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that our body experiences can happen under all

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<v Speaker 2>different types of conditions. And I think that when someone

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<v Speaker 2>has an accident or there some kind of like you

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned at the beginning, some kind of stress or some

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<v Speaker 2>intense experience happens that can cause an our body experience

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<v Speaker 2>an illness as well, for example. But then there's also

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<v Speaker 2>situations where it happens from a very healthy, very sort

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<v Speaker 2>of natural type situation as well, maybe like physical exhaustion

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<v Speaker 2>or an altered state of some description, or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>lack of sleep. Things like that can also cause the experience.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's when there's something that kind of pushes the

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<v Speaker 2>body and the mind beyond the normal limits of what

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<v Speaker 2>it's used to. I guess that it often happens naturally.

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<v Speaker 1>From the books that I've read and the articles that

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<v Speaker 1>I've read about people who've had near death experiences, is

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<v Speaker 1>it's almost always epiphanous for them. They come back to

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<v Speaker 1>their body and then their life has a completely different trajectory,

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<v Speaker 1>usually a really good trajectory, because they look at the

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<v Speaker 1>things that they were doing before and they've decided that

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<v Speaker 1>that wasn't for them bad health, bad job, whatever, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's a spiritual experience for them as well. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>find that similar things happen with your experience and with

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<v Speaker 1>the people that you've talked to, that it has a

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<v Speaker 1>sort of epiphanus or euphoric experience to it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think so for sure. I think it's definitely had

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<v Speaker 2>a big impact on my own life. I think I've

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<v Speaker 2>I came from quite a rough, working class background, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think that it's led me to a much more

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<v Speaker 2>sort of peaceful way of being in my life, and

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<v Speaker 2>much more positive and health focused and lots of things

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<v Speaker 2>like that. So and I see that in a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the students and people I work with that they

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<v Speaker 2>described to me that they've had like a change in

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<v Speaker 2>their life where they feel happier or healthier or calmer.

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<v Speaker 2>Those kinds of things to tend to be the effects,

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<v Speaker 2>I would say, So, yeah, it does seem to have

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<v Speaker 2>a positive effect for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you classify this as being more of a mental

0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.319
<v Speaker 1>experience or more of a spiritual experience?

0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's that's where it gets tricky, I would say,

0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.880
<v Speaker 2>because I think it is, we have to sort of

0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.960
<v Speaker 2>define those terms of it. But I guess how I

0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.560
<v Speaker 2>see it is. I think it's I think it's a

0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.640
<v Speaker 2>degree of both. I would say, I think that I

0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.040
<v Speaker 2>think that what we're experiencing is a kind of extension

0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.840
<v Speaker 2>of consciousness. If you think about the brain or the

0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.240
<v Speaker 2>mind and how the activity of the brain happens, we

0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.720
<v Speaker 2>usually understand that to be electrical in nature.

0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 3>For example.

0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm not saying this is how it works. But

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.040
<v Speaker 2>this is just an example. But for example, electricity is

0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:13.240
<v Speaker 2>not confined necessarily to the boundaries of your brain or

0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 2>to the boundaries of your skull, for example, So if

0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.160
<v Speaker 2>you have electrical activity and things like that, it could

0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:25.160
<v Speaker 2>potentially extend beyond. This is sort of where the science

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:29.440
<v Speaker 2>starts to come in. And Brian Josson, for example, won

0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.440
<v Speaker 2>the Nobel Prize for physics, so we were in the slices.

0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 2>He feels that there may be a quantum entanglement effect

0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 2>going on, a non locality effect going on within the brain.

0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.960
<v Speaker 2>So possibly this is how these kinds of pie or

0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:50.520
<v Speaker 2>psychic experiences might happen. We don't know yet, but I

0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.080
<v Speaker 2>think there's strong evidence from the science I've been involved

0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.760
<v Speaker 2>with that many many other people have done. So I

0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 2>think that what we're kind of dealing with is a

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 2>bit of a mixture between our psychology and maybe this

0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 2>extension of the mind, this extension of consciousness beyond the brain.

0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.800
<v Speaker 2>I think it's probably a mixture of the two. So

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:15.560
<v Speaker 2>depends how we look.

0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:16.200
<v Speaker 3>At the spiritual.

0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.760
<v Speaker 2>But I guess if we see the spiritual as something

0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:23.600
<v Speaker 2>that has a positive or a beneficial effect through a

0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 2>sort of expansion.

0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 3>Of the mind.

0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.520
<v Speaker 2>Then I would say, yes, there's a combination of the.

0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Two, and of course you would find it hard to

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.920
<v Speaker 1>get science to cross into the spiritual world. But when

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:38.120
<v Speaker 1>they've done tests with people who've been doing meditation on

0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 1>the electrical energy from the brain, they've got verifiable proof

0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.440
<v Speaker 1>there that something's going on.

0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I think I think actually science parapsychology, which

0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.400
<v Speaker 2>is a proper field of science, is.

0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.000
<v Speaker 3>Very open to these things.

0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:00.720
<v Speaker 2>It's just that unfortunately mainstream scientists are not very aware

0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.360
<v Speaker 2>of parapsychology, or they dismiss it because of very vocal

0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.800
<v Speaker 2>skeptics in the media and things like that. But I

0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.280
<v Speaker 2>think if you actually look at the research that's been

0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:16.360
<v Speaker 2>done for the last one hundred and forty years or more,

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:22.400
<v Speaker 2>there's very good, repeatable experiments that have shown evidence for

0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:28.000
<v Speaker 2>especially things like telepathy, but also precognition, often in the

0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.240
<v Speaker 2>form of presentiment, which means like feeling a sense of

0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.280
<v Speaker 2>something going to happen. So that's foreboding that a lot

0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 2>of people might get before they and they maybe decide

0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.280
<v Speaker 2>not to go around a corner and then two cars

0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 2>crash or you know, we've all heard stories of that

0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of scenario. Where you get that gut feeling. Well,

0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:50.840
<v Speaker 2>there's been research looking at that, the sense of being

0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.320
<v Speaker 2>stared at. I worked with Rupertshaw Drake, who was a

0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 2>scientist in the UK who looks at the idea of

0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.040
<v Speaker 2>the sense of being stared at. So when you get

0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:02.880
<v Speaker 2>that feeling kind of on the back of your neck

0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.000
<v Speaker 2>that someone's looking at you, when you turn around and

0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.320
<v Speaker 2>they're looking at you, that's often dismissed as oh, it's

0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.600
<v Speaker 2>just chance, But when you actually look at the research

0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.320
<v Speaker 2>that's been done, you find that actually it's above what

0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.800
<v Speaker 2>you would expect by chance, and people do seem to

0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 2>be able to have a sense of when someone's looking

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:20.840
<v Speaker 2>at them.

0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's right if you break it down to that,

0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.360
<v Speaker 1>it's inherent in everybody. Everybody has that ability within them.

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Could you suggest one of your books for people to read.

0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:34.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, I've just released a special edition, updated version of

0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.240
<v Speaker 2>my classic book which is Navigating the Outer Body Experience,

0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:41.800
<v Speaker 2>So that goes into all of the things I'm talking about,

0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.600
<v Speaker 2>and lots of techniques and methods for people to have

0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:46.280
<v Speaker 2>their own experiences as well.

0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Great, an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.

0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:50.960
<v Speaker 3>You're very welcome.