1
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:03,520
Speaker 1: Nine podcasts.

2
00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,400
Speaker 2: This is The Payoff with me Sylvia Jeffries. Thanks to

3
00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:14,320
Speaker 2: Belong Internet. Thank you for pressing play on this episode

4
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,120
Speaker 2: of The Payoff. My name is Sylvia Jeffries and welcome

5
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,959
Speaker 2: to another great episode and a great conversation. I know

6
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,439
Speaker 2: you're going to love this one. The life of a founder,

7
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,439
Speaker 2: for those of us who've never started a business, seems

8
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 2: pretty wild and perhaps it's the name of the game,

9
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,640
Speaker 2: but it is definitely the name of today's podcast guest.

10
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,599
Speaker 2: She is the super savvy and very clever co founder

11
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,240
Speaker 2: and CMO for TBH Skincare and Boof. I am talking,

12
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,880
Speaker 2: of course, about Rachel Wilde. Now, if you haven't heard

13
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,279
Speaker 2: that name before, then there's a very good chance you've

14
00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 2: been living under a social media rock. Her products for

15
00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,720
Speaker 2: TBH and boof are stocked in supermarkets at Priceline, they're

16
00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,720
Speaker 2: everywhere over social media, right across Instagram and TikTok feeds.

17
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,320
Speaker 2: She really knows how to tap in and harness the

18
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,479
Speaker 2: power of social media. But she's also faced in her

19
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 2: life before even turning the age of thirty, more than

20
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,720
Speaker 2: her fair share of controversy, even at one point drawing

21
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,920
Speaker 2: the eye of self proclaimed misogynist Andrew Tate. So look,

22
00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,000
Speaker 2: if you're interested in building your own brand or your

23
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 2: own company, maybe just creating some online content that really

24
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,400
Speaker 2: resonates with people, or you want to know how to

25
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,720
Speaker 2: navigate the good, the bad, and the ugly of social media,

26
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:35,920
Speaker 2: then you are in the right place. They stick around. Rachel. Welcome,

27
00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 2: It's so great to have you here.

28
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to

29
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:39,480
Speaker 1: be here.

30
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,959
Speaker 2: Well, you're a busy, busy bee. You've got a lot

31
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,320
Speaker 2: on your plate at the moment, and I want to

32
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,360
Speaker 2: talk about Boof, which is your latest project. But first

33
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,800
Speaker 2: I want to talk about the moment that first put

34
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,080
Speaker 2: you on my radar. So this was the gen Z

35
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,920
Speaker 2: Boss in a mini clear right. It blew up online

36
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,600
Speaker 2: and not for the reasons that you had expected. So

37
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 2: you ended up facing this storm of misogyny, these online

38
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,600
Speaker 2: attacks mostly coming to you from men on Twitter. And

39
00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 2: you know, for the sake of our audience, this is

40
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:15,160
Speaker 2: a really cute, innocent, innocuous little clip, a TikTok trend

41
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,880
Speaker 2: that you were picking up on and doing with your colleagues.

42
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,960
Speaker 2: So take me back first to the clip and the reaction.

43
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:23,480
Speaker 2: What happened I.

44
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 3: Can't actually believe that it's been almost a year. My

45
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,000
Speaker 3: team and I were actually talking this morning saying, oh,

46
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 3: we're coming up to the one year of the gen

47
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:30,919
Speaker 3: Z Boston a mini video.

48
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:33,920
Speaker 1: It was literally just that a trend.

49
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,040
Speaker 3: Every week, you know, in the office, there's social media

50
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,760
Speaker 3: content being you know, created twenty four to seven and

51
00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 3: it is often very spontaneous, and that was exactly how

52
00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,240
Speaker 3: this video came about. It was a trend, someone had

53
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,799
Speaker 3: seen it on TikTok. We wanted to recreate it, and

54
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 3: in the moment, we literally all stood up from our desks,

55
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 3: came into the middle of the office, and came up

56
00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,360
Speaker 3: with this chant that played into the trend, which was

57
00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 3: just listing like two things about something you were wearing

58
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 3: or what you were doing anyway, and chanting it in

59
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,320
Speaker 3: a circle. It was so so innocent, and to be honest,

60
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,080
Speaker 3: I didn't even think it was going to go that well,

61
00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,560
Speaker 3: Like this was a trend that we didn't create, Like

62
00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,680
Speaker 3: it was already taking off on TikTok and we were

63
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 3: just participating in it, so there was no real reason

64
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 3: for it to go like super viral. But it went

65
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,120
Speaker 3: pretty well, I would say on TikTok every night. We

66
00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,880
Speaker 3: saw that it picked up massively in the early hours

67
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 3: of the morning, so we knew that there was like

68
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,360
Speaker 3: some US traffic coming to it. And I think it

69
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,160
Speaker 3: got about a million views in maybe twenty four to

70
00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 3: forty eight hours, and it continued to track and on TikTok,

71
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 3: the commentary was like pretty tame. There were some people

72
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,600
Speaker 3: saying they thought it was a bit cringe worthy, nothing

73
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 3: that we weren't used to, like nothing to write home about,

74
00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,560
Speaker 3: no real story there. But it was on the Friday

75
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,000
Speaker 3: we actually started getting messages from people's boyfriend's, husband's fiancees

76
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,760
Speaker 3: and the team who were on Twitter. Classic like a

77
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,280
Speaker 3: lot of the females are not on Twitter, and they

78
00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,400
Speaker 3: were saying, hey, you guys are popping up on my

79
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:04,720
Speaker 3: feed on Twitter.

80
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:06,120
Speaker 1: I was like, what's going on?

81
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 3: And we started getting some a bit like a bit

82
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 3: of a change in tone in the commentary on our

83
00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 3: Instagram and stuff, and I jumped onto Twitter and it

84
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,159
Speaker 3: had been reshared. The video so taken off TikTok and

85
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 3: Instagram and reshared onto Twitter or x and it had

86
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,320
Speaker 3: been made into a meme. So it said something about

87
00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,760
Speaker 3: this is your HR department like two minutes after they

88
00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,880
Speaker 3: do layoffs. It was something like that, and people on

89
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,680
Speaker 3: Twitter saw that and just thought that's what it actually was,

90
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,080
Speaker 3: couldn't understand that it was a meme being taken out

91
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,280
Speaker 3: of a context, and we just started getting absolutely torn

92
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 3: to shreds on Twitter, which we were reading a lot

93
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,600
Speaker 3: of this commentary and it was clearly coming from males

94
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 3: in the US, like so far removed from our customer demographic,

95
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,240
Speaker 3: and honestly, some of the commentary was so.

96
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 1: Far out of reality to us that we.

97
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 3: Thought it was comical, people saying, you know, these women

98
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,680
Speaker 3: should go back to the kitchen, like this is why

99
00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,680
Speaker 3: women shouldn't be in the workforce, And yeah, we kind

100
00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,920
Speaker 3: of thought it was funny originally when we saw it,

101
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,479
Speaker 3: and so we decided to film the exact same video

102
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,240
Speaker 3: using the commentary on.

103
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 1: Twitter as like a clap back or.

104
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,680
Speaker 3: Like a ha ha, what the hell's going on here?

105
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,960
Speaker 3: And so, again, like we do most things, it was spontaneous.

106
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 3: We got up filmed the trend again with the backlash

107
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,000
Speaker 3: comments posted it, and actually I'm glad that we did

108
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 3: that because that sort of started to like that was

109
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,279
Speaker 3: actually one of the things that got a lot of

110
00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 3: people on side. I always say, if someone's making fun

111
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,360
Speaker 3: of you on the Internet, the best thing you can

112
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:37,839
Speaker 3: do is like get in on the joke.

113
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,720
Speaker 1: And so we did that and I think that.

114
00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,159
Speaker 3: Video at the time was at about twenty eight million

115
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,760
Speaker 3: views on Twitter, but then over the weekend it grew

116
00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:54,479
Speaker 3: significantly in views. I remember Elon Musk even retweeted a

117
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:59,000
Speaker 3: post about it because Andrew Tait waited, Yes, that was

118
00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,320
Speaker 3: the moment where everything so on the sun I think

119
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,680
Speaker 3: it was the Saturday that weekend. Andrew Tate actually published

120
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,960
Speaker 3: the video himself, not the meme. He took the original

121
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,760
Speaker 3: video and said, this is why you know you should

122
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,960
Speaker 3: escape the matrix otherwise people like this are going to

123
00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 3: be your boss, and basically sent I think he's got

124
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,840
Speaker 3: seven million followers on Twitter, sent all of them our

125
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,960
Speaker 3: way onto all of the channels.

126
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 1: That's where we controls.

127
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we saw a real increase even in customer service

128
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,480
Speaker 3: like messages that we were getting through and that's when

129
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,680
Speaker 3: it really shifted. And by probably about a week later

130
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,920
Speaker 3: on Twitter, that video had over one hundred and forty

131
00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,240
Speaker 3: million views. Wow, so we're talking like we got basically

132
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,240
Speaker 3: turned into a worldwide meme and it was really scary

133
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,760
Speaker 3: at that point when Andrew Tate posted it, because that's

134
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,280
Speaker 3: a very dangerous person on the internet.

135
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,600
Speaker 2: Very dangerous person who has a lot of influence, Yeah,

136
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 2: over a lot of people. Yeah, were you intimidated by that?

137
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 2: Were you feeling threatened?

138
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:53,760
Speaker 1: Definitely?

139
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,239
Speaker 3: I think that's the moment where it turned from who cares?

140
00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,320
Speaker 3: These are just random people on the internet actually being

141
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,200
Speaker 3: scared because we were getting threats and we didn't know,

142
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 3: you know, how real they were. And obviously then that

143
00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 3: noise gets a lot louder when you get someone like

144
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 3: Andrew Tate weighing in on the situation. So it really

145
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 3: we went into, you know, sort of a mode of

146
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 3: just making sure that we were trying to then I guess,

147
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 3: not add any fuel to the fire, you know, try

148
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,720
Speaker 3: and get some eyeballs off it almost like making sure

149
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,040
Speaker 3: this stuff felt like they were well looked after and

150
00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 3: protected and supported, and that was you know, it all

151
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,680
Speaker 3: turned into like, Okay, actually, how do we just make

152
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 3: sure that everyone's okay in this situation because it's sort

153
00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 3: of a storm we're now going to have to ride through.

154
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,320
Speaker 2: How did it eventually simmer down?

155
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,320
Speaker 3: In the end, there was a lot of media that

156
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,440
Speaker 3: came sort of for commentary, and initially a lot of

157
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 3: the media that came came out of it was quite negative,

158
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,800
Speaker 3: and a lot from the US as well, weighing in

159
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,280
Speaker 3: on why everyone I think there were headline it's like

160
00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,320
Speaker 3: why this is the most hated video on the Internet

161
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,520
Speaker 3: and all of these things. But it wasn't until maybe

162
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,800
Speaker 3: about midway through the next week that media US started

163
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 3: to really see the story there and the other side

164
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,720
Speaker 3: of the sort of you know commentary where it was like,

165
00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:22,320
Speaker 3: how has this video unleashed such uproar on the Internet?

166
00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 3: And so we actually got really strong support from Australian

167
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,280
Speaker 3: media and you know, we started being more vocal on

168
00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,400
Speaker 3: you know, like we didn't do anything wrong, why is

169
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,319
Speaker 3: this happening? And our community came out massively to support us.

170
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,880
Speaker 3: So eventually we saw that you know, tide change and

171
00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 3: people were really coming to bat for us, and a

172
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 3: lot of people discovered us via that whole scenario, and

173
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 3: so it sort of reaffirmed who our community was, made

174
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,439
Speaker 3: our community even more loyal to us because they weathered

175
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,920
Speaker 3: that storm with us. And yeah, ultimately, like it did

176
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,560
Speaker 3: generate a huge amount of awareness for the brand. I

177
00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,560
Speaker 3: just wish that the staff hadn't had to go through

178
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,120
Speaker 3: that to get there.

179
00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,240
Speaker 2: Well, and that's a really hard thing for you to

180
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:09,040
Speaker 2: navigate in your twenties as well, when you've got people

181
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:15,160
Speaker 2: of that level of influence, you know, unleashing a really

182
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 2: negative force onto you, onto your team, onto your brand.

183
00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 2: It's really intimidating. What do you think that you've taken

184
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,800
Speaker 2: away from that experience now as a woman in business?

185
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,199
Speaker 3: I honestly think that in the middle of it, it

186
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 3: was terrifying, and there was so many moments where we

187
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 3: second guessed ourselves, you know, in terms of have we

188
00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,960
Speaker 3: made the right move here? Have we done the right thing?

189
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,600
Speaker 3: But ultimately by just being true to ourselves and sort

190
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 3: of not backing down in a way, like I look

191
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,360
Speaker 3: back at that clapback video and I think it was

192
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,400
Speaker 3: one of the best things we ever put out because

193
00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,160
Speaker 3: we sort of held our ground, and then we actually

194
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,440
Speaker 3: ended up opening a broader conversation around why there was

195
00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,319
Speaker 3: this commentary around women in the workforce and make these

196
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 3: TikTok trends and that somehow meant that that person maybe

197
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,439
Speaker 3: was a bit silly or not so good at their job,

198
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 3: Like why was that the case? Opened up a broader conversation.

199
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,960
Speaker 3: We even had like Dad's emailing us saying, I had

200
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 3: a really important conversation with my daughter around this and

201
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,440
Speaker 3: all of these things. And I think that's what I

202
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 3: took away from it was, even though there was this

203
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,400
Speaker 3: huge storm, even though it felt so scary, like standing

204
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,160
Speaker 3: your ground and actually standing for something and not backing

205
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,560
Speaker 3: down was one of the most powerful things we could

206
00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,160
Speaker 3: have done in that scenario, And had I gone through

207
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,320
Speaker 3: it again, I probably would have been even braver. That

208
00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,320
Speaker 3: was my takeout was, actually, even though you're scared, like,

209
00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:40,560
Speaker 3: don't back down.

210
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,520
Speaker 2: I bet that has set you up now though, Yeah,

211
00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,120
Speaker 2: to really know how to weather a storm, how to

212
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,680
Speaker 2: get through a difficult time, and not just professionally but

213
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,840
Speaker 2: personally as well. Yeah, and I bet you're a lot

214
00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,360
Speaker 2: stronger than you realize you were before that.

215
00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, definitely built a lot of resilience.

216
00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, so this was all happening when you were

217
00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,240
Speaker 2: at this time, the boss of TBH Skincare booth hadn't

218
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 2: yet arrived, and we'll talk about that in a moment,

219
00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:11,040
Speaker 2: but talk to me about the initial stages of TBH Skincare.

220
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,680
Speaker 2: You were, how old twenty three when you launched. Yes,

221
00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,280
Speaker 2: so what about when you like the you know, research

222
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,440
Speaker 2: and development and all of that. When did that all start?

223
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what, TBH.

224
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,280
Speaker 3: I never set out to start my own business, and

225
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,640
Speaker 3: I think for a lot of people, especially the younger

226
00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 3: generation coming through now, I think so many of them

227
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,760
Speaker 3: are keen to start up their own things and go

228
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 3: into business. But I studied marketing at UNI. I fell

229
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 3: in love with marketing. That was all I ever wanted

230
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,480
Speaker 3: to do. I ultimately saw myself working in like big

231
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,600
Speaker 3: consumer goods, you know, making big TV ads, and that

232
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,240
Speaker 3: was the dream. And I got my first full time

233
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,240
Speaker 3: job out of UNI in medical devices, which was not

234
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,920
Speaker 3: a sexy industry but a very commercial one. Taught me

235
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,240
Speaker 3: a lot, and I was in digital marketing for literally

236
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,480
Speaker 3: like things that go into people's bodies and surgery and

237
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,680
Speaker 3: infection prevention stuff and marketing to surgeons. Really it was

238
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,040
Speaker 3: very regulated and very commercial, and it was in that

239
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,520
Speaker 3: job that I came across the patented tech that we

240
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:14,640
Speaker 3: licensed into TBH Skincare. So I had never planned to

241
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 3: do this. I just so happened to be, I think,

242
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,600
Speaker 3: in the right place at the right time. But with

243
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,080
Speaker 3: the right enthusiasm and sort of I saw this opportunity

244
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,040
Speaker 3: and grabbed it with both hands. So there was a

245
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,840
Speaker 3: tech that a medical research and development company had created,

246
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,920
Speaker 3: they had patented it. It was being used for infection

247
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:38,319
Speaker 3: preventions in hospitals. They also discovered that the same tech

248
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,160
Speaker 3: they were using to treat bacteria in the hospital space

249
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,000
Speaker 3: could be used in the skincare space for acne and

250
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,800
Speaker 3: acne causing bacteria. So they took that, created a skin

251
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 3: care product with it, started trialing it against sort of

252
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,760
Speaker 3: the key market players with sally silic acid benzyl peroxide,

253
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,440
Speaker 3: and discovered that it was really effective and also quite good.

254
00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,080
Speaker 3: Like inter it was good for sensitive skin, it wasn't

255
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,439
Speaker 3: super harsh, so it offered something really novel to the

256
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,560
Speaker 3: acney category. But they don't take things direct market. Skincare

257
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,840
Speaker 3: is not their core focus, especially not beauty or you know,

258
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 3: direct to consumer. So I was so lucky to become

259
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,000
Speaker 3: aware of that. And then because I had one been

260
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,160
Speaker 3: a massive beauty consumer in my life too, had a

261
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,000
Speaker 3: terrible experience with acne for over thirteen years. And then

262
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,600
Speaker 3: I was like sort of as I was obsessed with

263
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,240
Speaker 3: marketing and brand building just in my spare time, I

264
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,280
Speaker 3: would read brand books and everything else. It was like

265
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,040
Speaker 3: this perfect culmination of things that then led me to go, well,

266
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:41,000
Speaker 3: what's happening.

267
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:41,880
Speaker 1: With that tech?

268
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,880
Speaker 3: And I was lucky to be introduced to the CEO

269
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 3: of that company. And then I convinced my mum to

270
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,839
Speaker 3: go into business with me. She's an accountant, so I

271
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,239
Speaker 3: handled all of the finance and opside.

272
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,520
Speaker 2: That's handy, like so handy.

273
00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,480
Speaker 3: We work on different sides of the brain, so like

274
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,480
Speaker 3: a really good team. And so we went together and

275
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,960
Speaker 3: pitched for these licensing rights to the product. She'd done

276
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,199
Speaker 3: all the startup costs and modeling, and then I had

277
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 3: done basically the whole brand build and what you know,

278
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,000
Speaker 3: how I thought we could sell it, who the customer

279
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,520
Speaker 3: would be, how we would talk to them, what the

280
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,360
Speaker 3: brand would look like. And they gave us the license

281
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,560
Speaker 3: to this skin care product, which was pretty like incredible

282
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,240
Speaker 3: because it was a completely novel science in the category,

283
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 3: completely new innovation they had. You know, I think there's

284
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 3: like over forty global patents that protect this IP.

285
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,760
Speaker 1: And we just happened to get access to that.

286
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,240
Speaker 2: So would you say you're an accidental entrepreneur? Totally?

287
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. But now that I look back.

288
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,560
Speaker 3: I look back on my early career and even some

289
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,240
Speaker 3: of the things that people said to me when I

290
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,600
Speaker 3: was in my early stages of my career, and I

291
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 3: feel like that's what I was meant to do, because

292
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,440
Speaker 3: a lot of people would say like, oh, you've got

293
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 3: that sort of business like brain or like that sort

294
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,280
Speaker 3: of hustled Like I think I always took my full

295
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,000
Speaker 3: time job a little too seriously, Like I was always

296
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,440
Speaker 3: that person that was enthralled with what I was doing.

297
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so from the outset, what were your initial goals

298
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 2: with TVH.

299
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,960
Speaker 3: I remember sitting down and my friends will recall this

300
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,520
Speaker 3: conversation as well. They talk about it all the time.

301
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 3: We went to the winery in Surrey Hills for someone's birthday,

302
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,040
Speaker 3: and that was the time in which I think we'd

303
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,360
Speaker 3: won this license and I decided I was going to

304
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,840
Speaker 3: quit my full time job and go do it. And

305
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,320
Speaker 3: we went to this birthday at the winery and I

306
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,680
Speaker 3: told them like, oh, I'm going to start a skincare brand.

307
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,440
Speaker 3: And I think I said to them, you know, like

308
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 3: I want it to be like the Frank Bodies of

309
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,600
Speaker 3: the world, or you know, at the time, those were

310
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,840
Speaker 3: the brands like go to skincare Frank Body and I

311
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,480
Speaker 3: was like, it's going to be It's going to be

312
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 3: like another one of those, And they recall that conversation

313
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,280
Speaker 3: to me, and you know, I've actually met Bree, one

314
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,120
Speaker 3: of the founders of Frank and we've worked with them

315
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 3: now on the booth brand.

316
00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,120
Speaker 1: Like there's been all of these moments.

317
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, they have a marketing they have an agency

318
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:02,520
Speaker 2: agency to.

319
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 3: Build brand, and yeah, I just wanted to create this

320
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,840
Speaker 3: incredible brand that was really recognizable and loved and had

321
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,000
Speaker 3: like a cult following and community behind it. And I

322
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 3: think that was the main thing that I was passionate

323
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 3: about creating.

324
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,680
Speaker 2: Your packaging is something that everyone talks about. How crucial

325
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,280
Speaker 2: has that been to your success?

326
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 1: Do you think so crucial?

327
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,720
Speaker 3: But I would say that it wasn't that well thought out,

328
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 3: as in, you go into a price line store now

329
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 3: and you can spot TBH a mile away. The same

330
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 3: with Cole's, and it's actually such a core component of

331
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 3: what has developed, like the brand identity and how people

332
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 3: recognize us and even you know, how the customers feel

333
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 3: when they use the products. But when we went into

334
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,680
Speaker 3: building that, I would say we wanted it to feel fun, playful, accessible,

335
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,640
Speaker 3: shake up the category because we knew there was a

336
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 3: lot of like white clinical labels, not a lot of

337
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 3: fun speak in the category. We wanted it to be

338
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,640
Speaker 3: something different. But I don't think we actually really realized

339
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,600
Speaker 3: how crucial that was going to be to us cutting

340
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,560
Speaker 3: through when we got to retail, which was only three

341
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:08,680
Speaker 3: years into the journey.

342
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,000
Speaker 2: So what like, what kind of how many products are

343
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,840
Speaker 2: we moving with Tvah, you're selling in price Line.

344
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,600
Speaker 3: Priceline, Coals, Woolworths, Chemist Warehouse in New Zealand.

345
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 2: Wow.

346
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that we did, just did our first international

347
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:22,719
Speaker 3: launch with New Zealand.

348
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,080
Speaker 2: We've got some really competitive markets. It's not easy to

349
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 2: get into a Coals, no Aura wor Worth.

350
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,720
Speaker 3: Right, No, No, I think so price Line was the

351
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,880
Speaker 3: first one that we went into and I remember when

352
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 3: we were looking at retail, price Line was the one

353
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,840
Speaker 3: that I really wanted because you had the pharmacy aspect

354
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 3: of there's a healthcare professional in stare, You've got that

355
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 3: element of trust, but you've also got the beauty component

356
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 3: where it is like a beauty destination, and you've got

357
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 3: coverage across Australia where you've got over four hundred stores,

358
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,159
Speaker 3: which means it's accessible. It's like, you know, the value

359
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:03,119
Speaker 3: of price points really strong price Line, it's not overly aspirational,

360
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 3: and it means even if you're in regional areas, you

361
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,080
Speaker 3: can access the product. And that was always so important

362
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,480
Speaker 3: for me because I knew how good the tech was,

363
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,880
Speaker 3: and I was always of the opinion that it should

364
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 3: be priced in a way and distributed in a way

365
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 3: that was easy for people to access, because it was

366
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,720
Speaker 3: always about let's just get it into people's hands, you know,

367
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 3: those people that actually need it.

368
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 1: How do we reach them?

369
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,200
Speaker 3: And so that was always the guiding compass and a

370
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 3: lot of people early on because when we went into

371
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,840
Speaker 3: price Line, I think price Lines really elevated itself, you know,

372
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,919
Speaker 3: probably in the last three years, but when we went in,

373
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,560
Speaker 3: I think we were more of a new, like new,

374
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,160
Speaker 3: younger brand to go into price Line. And some people

375
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 3: did say to me like why not Sophora, why not Mecca?

376
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 3: But I think for me, it was always about how

377
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 3: can we reach like that breadth of people, And we

378
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,119
Speaker 3: wanted to be mass and we wanted to be for

379
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,359
Speaker 3: everyone because and we wanted people who had acne to

380
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,640
Speaker 3: be able to reach for these products. And not feel

381
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 3: like they were intimidated or you know, had to you know,

382
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 3: really go out of their way to find it that

383
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 3: it was easy for them to access.

384
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 2: So you've just launched your second brand at the age

385
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty eight. Yeah, my god, complete slowed down

386
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,200
Speaker 2: for the sake of the rest of us who feel

387
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,760
Speaker 2: like we are underperforming. So congratulations on Booth. Thank You've

388
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 2: seen it everywhere over my social media in recent weeks.

389
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,679
Speaker 2: So what lessons did you take from TBH or some

390
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 2: of the challenges you've faced in TBH that you've applied

391
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 2: to your approach and your plans and your goals with Booth.

392
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,080
Speaker 3: So with TBH, we were very specific on niching down.

393
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,960
Speaker 3: So because we launched with not a lot of budget,

394
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,119
Speaker 3: like marketing budget, we were bootstrapped, so, you know, not

395
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 3: a lot.

396
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:46,199
Speaker 1: Of cash to play with.

397
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 3: My philosophy around how we got that into people's hands

398
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 3: was pick one customer group, focus on them, and don't

399
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 3: try and be all things to all people. And that

400
00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 3: served us so well with TBH because we cut through

401
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,239
Speaker 3: a really saturated category quite quickly, and that is a

402
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 3: very very difficult thing to do. And I think it

403
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 3: was because we were willing to polarize some people because

404
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 3: we knew that by you know, really interacting with the

405
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 3: customer in a certain way, we would get that love

406
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 3: and community and someone would feel like we were talking

407
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 3: directly to them. But in order to do that, you

408
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 3: have to not talk to certain other categories of people from.

409
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: A marketing perspective.

410
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 3: So I think that was the philosophy around TBH, and

411
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,239
Speaker 3: we took a very similar approach with Booth, which was,

412
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 3: let's look at the category and what's missing and who

413
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 3: do we need to speak to, who's under serviced, even

414
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 3: in terms of colors and tone of voice, like where's

415
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 3: the where's the white space? Where can we stand out?

416
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 3: What can we do differently? And so I would say

417
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,119
Speaker 3: that was a learning from TBH that I definitely pulled

418
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 3: into Booth.

419
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 2: So tell us who you're specifically targeting with booth. Who's

420
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:55,679
Speaker 2: your audience.

421
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 3: We've got two core customer groups. We call them stress

422
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 3: heads and postpartum baddies, so both so stress heads are

423
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 3: you know, probably like that twenty five to thirty five

424
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 3: year old group of people, often female, who are highly

425
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 3: stressed in their like first like bit of their careers,

426
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 3: like working really hard facing costs of living, crisis as dating,

427
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 3: like jobs, all of these things like an enormous amount

428
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 3: of pressure, and they often have damaged their hair over

429
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 3: the years with color or tools like heat, and or

430
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 3: they've just got genetically thin hair. Sort of like one

431
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 3: catch all of like this female who's really engaged in

432
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 3: the beauty category and looking for options for hair thickening products,

433
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 3: because that's a real concern that they're having because they're

434
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 3: losing their hair because they're stressed or they've damaged it

435
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 3: and everything else.

436
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: So there are stress heads. And then we've got a group.

437
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 3: Of postpartum mums who I don't think have a lot

438
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 3: of great options in the category. I think postpartum hair

439
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 3: loss is a massive thing for people to go through

440
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 3: wild when it happens to you, I think, and I

441
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 3: actually haven't been through postpartum hair loss, but I've spoken

442
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 3: to a lot of customers before we launched the brand

443
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 3: around what that's actually like. And I think you've got,

444
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 3: you know, a sleep deprived mum, you know, with a

445
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 3: crying baby that's now losing clumps of hair.

446
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 2: The entire body is depleted and it's showing through your scalp.

447
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 2: You've got chunks coming out. I had two babies in

448
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 2: very quick succession. Yeah, I had the little regrowth there

449
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 2: at the front of the corner both for three straight

450
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 2: years maybe yeah.

451
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. And people who get it really bad, like they

452
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 3: lose a significant amount of their hair, and so we

453
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 3: wanted to give them like some control back in terms

454
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 3: of Okay, I know that I can reach for this product,

455
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 3: that it's going to work, it's you know, all natural,

456
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 3: like all of these things that we felt like we're

457
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 3: missing for that post part of mum. It's well priced

458
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 3: and so that was a really important customer group for

459
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 3: us to capture as well with this.

460
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 2: And so what's got what goes into the science of

461
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: creating a product like that.

462
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 3: You know what's hilarious is this is actually such a

463
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 3: similar story to TBH. So we were now working at

464
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 3: York Street Brands. So TBH merged with another company called

465
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 3: Boos Lab back in twenty twenty three. We created a

466
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 3: new banner company called York Street Brands. And what we

467
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 3: were doing in the marketing and brand building space I

468
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 3: think people were aware of in terms of our ability

469
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 3: to find the niche in a growing category, cut through

470
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 3: and generate a huge amount of momentum quite quickly up

471
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 3: against the big conglomerates in these categories. And there was

472
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 3: a company that approached us because they recognized our ability

473
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: to sort of, you know, build brands. And I think

474
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 3: it's really can't be understated. You can have an amazing

475
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 3: innovation and an amazing product, but unless you understand the

476
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 3: customer how they want to buy it, like, you know,

477
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 3: how you're going to even get them aware of the

478
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 3: product and the brand, you know, stocking at the right places,

479
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 3: making it look you know, the way that they wanted

480
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 3: to in the packaging. If you miss a lot of

481
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 3: those steps, you'll have an amazing product that never reaches someone.

482
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 3: And so this company had they had the tech to

483
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 3: this hair product, and they approached us because they said

484
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 3: they saw what we were doing and our ability to

485
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: connect with the customer group, and they said, can we

486
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 3: partner together, you know, we can license this product to

487
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 3: you the tech and they had So this tech comes

488
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 3: out of Japan. So it was I think there was

489
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 3: a group of hair microbiologists who studied the role of

490
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 3: FGF five for about seven years, came out of a

491
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 3: UNIQ study in Japan, and they came FGF five as

492
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 3: a protein that exists in your scalp and its only

493
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: role is to signal for your hair to fall out.

494
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 3: And so they were working with all these different molecule

495
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 3: combinations that came from nature to see if they could

496
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 3: actually block that or silence that, could they hold onto

497
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 3: the hair for longer or keep it in a growth

498
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: face for longer, And that's essentially the premise behind the

499
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 3: whole tech of the range. So they came up with

500
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 3: this botanical blend that was able to do that, they

501
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 3: patented it and that was the unlike the core.

502
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: Of the product and why at works.

503
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: So again very new novel innovation in haircare that just

504
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 3: needed to reach people in the right way, which is

505
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 3: where sort of our our expertise came in.

506
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 2: Well, once again, social media is doing what it does,

507
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 2: so Pauly, I would say, in generating a fair amount

508
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: of backlash over how you have launched this campaign. So

509
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 2: we're going to take a quick break and we'll discuss

510
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 2: that right on the other side of this. So we've

511
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: launched Boof, I say, we the company. You've launched boof

512
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: and you launched with this campaign with Indie Clinton. Tell

513
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 2: us about what the plan was with that what was

514
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: the idea behind engaging Indie Clinton and the look of

515
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 2: the launch campaign.

516
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 3: Yes, so one of the things we knew with you know,

517
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: the creation of TBH and everything else, we had also

518
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 3: sat down and spoken to our stress heads and postpart

519
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 3: and baddies about creators that they were following and where

520
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 3: they were finding product recommendations, and we knew that, you know,

521
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 3: engaging with an influencer was a great way to generate

522
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 3: awareness for a new brand.

523
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: And so we had.

524
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 3: Spoken to Indye like middle to end of last year

525
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 3: and she had gone through a whole trial phase with

526
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 3: the products. So it's really important for us that if

527
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 3: we were to work with someone that they had to

528
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 3: have a really high level of trust with their community.

529
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 3: Indie's not someone that works with their stack of brands

530
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 3: like She's quite selective in who she works with, and

531
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: so we knew that if we could work with someone

532
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 3: like Indy and prove a result, that we'd have a

533
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 3: really strong foundation in terms of launching this brand. But

534
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: the way that we always work with talent is that

535
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: we want them to almost become like a part of

536
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 3: the team, and so we took that same approach with Indy,

537
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 3: which has sort of evolved now since then, but she

538
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 3: trialed the product and she saw like incredible results, but

539
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: it took probably about three months, and so she got

540
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 3: three months in and was like this is incredible. We

541
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 3: locked her into sort of work long term together. And

542
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: that was the whole premise behind the launch of the

543
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 3: brand was let's work with someone really trustworthy, who's got

544
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 3: the relevant audience and who you know, buys into the

545
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: product as much as we do.

546
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: And that was Indie.

547
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 3: And she had documented her entire trial, so we had

548
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 3: step by step, like progress week by week of what

549
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 3: was happening to her hair while she was using these products.

550
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: And so that part of the launch was okay, well,

551
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: we've got our organic sort of piece of content. The

552
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 3: way we work with influences, we leave them to communicate

553
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 3: in whatever way they want to with their audience because

554
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: they know their audience best. So Indy had that content.

555
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 3: How she wanted to leverage that or you know, talk

556
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 3: to them on her own TikTok pages sort it up

557
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 3: to her. And then in terms of our brand launch,

558
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: we wanted to sort of create this really identifiable brand

559
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 3: in market that was playful and a bit retro and

560
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: quite chic, and we had come up with this whole

561
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 3: brand identity behind the scenes that you know, even down

562
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,239
Speaker 3: to the colors and the typography and the type of

563
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 3: copy that we use across the brand. And I've actually

564
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: been very transparent about that whole selection process. Even on

565
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 3: my TikTok, I was bringing people in to say, these

566
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 3: were all the different brands that we looked at, and

567
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 3: this is why we chose this one, and these were

568
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 3: the you know, copy lines that we brought in. And

569
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 3: so the campaign, the actual launch video, was just basically

570
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 3: a whole culmination of that. It was meant to launch

571
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: the brand in market, established that tone of voice, you know,

572
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: bring across that unique brand identity in market, and so

573
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 3: that was why we went in the direction that we did,

574
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 3: which was very like eighties of retro inspired. We even

575
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 3: looked at, you know, like old fifties shampoo commercials and

576
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: were taking inspiration from all of these places to create

577
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 3: this juxtaposition of Indie as like this incredible public figure,

578
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: social media superstar, but also the fact that she was

579
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 3: like this modern day mum dealing with all of these

580
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 3: chaotic things, and we placed it into this like eighties

581
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: inspired retro campaign. To bring it to life, which we

582
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 3: then decided to lean into the use of big wigs

583
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 3: extensions like to demonstrate essentially how booth made her feel.

584
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 3: And so it was just a very creative concept of

585
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: here's booth, this is what it does, and this is

586
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 3: how it makes you feel, and this is the brand.

587
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 3: And it was just an that's awareness, that's what you're

588
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 3: trying to generate with a launch campaign video. And I

589
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 3: think that because of Indie and her profile and the

590
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 3: amount of people that follow her and her level of awareness,

591
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 3: I think that just meant that there were lots of

592
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 3: bables on this campaign. And as with any marketing ever,

593
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: you're always going to have people that don't agree with

594
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 3: the direction that you went in or who don't get it,

595
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 3: and I think we just saw that sort of suddenly

596
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 3: come through on TikTok.

597
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 2: So what exactly were people taking issue with the whigs.

598
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: And the extensions? Mainly it was you know which I

599
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 3: you know, you hear. If you just hear you're using

600
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: wigs to promote a hair thickening product, then of course

601
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: you're going to be like what they did? What? But

602
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 3: people were people were taking issue with the wigs, not

603
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 3: really understanding that it was a creative concept, which is

604
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 3: totally fine, Like I actually think that's totally fair. But

605
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,479
Speaker 3: we had shown her progress through all of these organic

606
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 3: videos separately, we'd done user trials with other people, like

607
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: it was a separate thing. So I think it was

608
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 3: being taken out of context. And then there was a

609
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 3: group of people who hadn't even seen the original launch video.

610
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 3: And then we were, you know, were seeing videos where

611
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 3: we were addressing why we used wigs or something like that,

612
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 3: and then being like jumping in on it then without

613
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: having any of the previous content, and it almost became

614
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 3: like this vortex of misinformation that then got spread over

615
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 3: the campaign. But you know, a lot of people the

616
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 3: reality is that a lot of people loved it and

617
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: did get it for what it was. And yeah, I

618
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 3: think there was just a bit of a pocket on

619
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,959
Speaker 3: the Internet that took issue with it.

620
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So you can take the experience from the gen

621
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 2: Z boss in a mini experience, right and apply that

622
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: to here. So you've now put out like a statement,

623
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: a video statement addressing the furor or over the over

624
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: the whigs. Sometimes I think, you know, I get a

625
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: little bit of this obviously on social media, being in

626
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: a public role, and you think, okay, do you feed

627
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: the seagulls? Yes? Is it worthy of giving oxygen to?

628
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: The complaints? Legitimate? And do I need to address it?

629
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: It's you know, it can be a really because sometimes

630
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: it is unjustified, the kind of hate that you get.

631
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: Sometimes you did mess up and you feel like you

632
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: do need to address it and maybe apologize. In this case,

633
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 2: you issued a really considered response that addressed the situation

634
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: and explained your side of the story. So how did

635
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: you land on the decision to address it that way?

636
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: What kind of process do you go through now as

637
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: a boss to determine how you address something like this.

638
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 3: That's such a good question because again, we move so

639
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 3: lifetime a lot of the time, and I would say, honestly,

640
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 3: what you see on my.

641
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: TikTok is like exactly.

642
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: What's going on behind the scenes. And I'm used to

643
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: operating very transparently on TikTok. You know, it's almost like

644
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: a personal video diary of what's going on.

645
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: In the business.

646
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 3: And so when I saw some of the commentary coming

647
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 3: through on TikTok, and I explained this in the video,

648
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 3: like I always read the comments and I listen because

649
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 3: for me, that's such valuable insight.

650
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: We base every.

651
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 3: Decision in the business off customer feedback, new products, every

652
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 3: single thing that we do were informed by the customer,

653
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 3: and it's a really crucial way that we actually get

654
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 3: things right. So I have explained in this video like

655
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 3: I will read all the comments and listen to all

656
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: this feedback, particularly when it's about the brand and the

657
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 3: products and everything, because I want to understand, like, Okay,

658
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: where is it not landing for some people?

659
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: What do they want to see more of?

660
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 3: I had some people say that they didn't really understand

661
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 3: the difference between the shampoo conditioner and the tonic and

662
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 3: how to use the whole range because the website like

663
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: it had a lot of the similar information across all

664
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 3: the product pages.

665
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, that's amazing, thank you.

666
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 3: I'm actually going to go tell the team, hey, can

667
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: we like add some more info. So all of those

668
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: things so helpful to know.

669
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: Be in the video.

670
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 3: It was just about getting getting to the bottom of

671
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: like I think there were three or four things that

672
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: I had seen in terms of common themes coming through

673
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: that I was like, Okay, people want more information, they

674
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 3: want more context. I'll give it to them. So I

675
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 3: sort of just made a video saying, you know, we've

676
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: had a lot of like feedback, and probably the biggest

677
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 3: volume of feedback on any launch or anything that I've

678
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: ever done. And the difference, I guess between this one

679
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 3: and gen Z Boston a Minie was that this was

680
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 3: actually about the brand and the products, and a lot

681
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 3: of it was coming from I guess, the customer group,

682
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 3: and so I was really like, I really care what

683
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: people are saying and think when it's coming directly from

684
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: the customer. So I wanted to give them the information

685
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 3: that they were looking for.

686
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: But then what I saw.

687
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 3: Continuing on was this snowball of misinformation. And I said

688
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 3: also in my video, my other follow up video that

689
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 3: I then did after that, was it's like things are

690
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 3: being repeated over and over and over again in the

691
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: comments until they kind of feel like fact, even though

692
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: they're not.

693
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: Something like people saying, oh this is just rogain repackage,

694
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: yeah something.

695
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, snake oil, it's this, that and the other.

696
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 3: It doesn't even work. They're preying on innocent people. People

697
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 3: and I had shared the entire background on how we

698
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 3: license the tech, what science went into it, but people didn't.

699
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 3: You know, I think this is where you go, well,

700
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 3: what do you feed into what do you not? And

701
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 3: I think that was the really valuable insight this time

702
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 3: around for me was I came out with a second

703
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 3: video that sort of said, Okay, there's a lot of

704
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: misinformation being spread. I sort of I said, you know,

705
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: silence can feel like permission a lot of the time.

706
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 3: And I am someone in my personal life even that

707
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 3: I will always have a dialogue around, like what's going on?

708
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 3: If something's bothering me, I'm so not conflict averse in

709
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 3: my personal life, like I'll lean in and like have

710
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 3: a conversation about it. And so that's almost what I

711
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 3: was doing with this second reply video, saying like, okay, guys,

712
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 3: it's a bit march. And I think that video also

713
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 3: got taken out of context, and it was a good

714
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 3: learning for me of Okay, maybe not everything needs a reply, yeah,

715
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 3: And you know, sometimes people don't want to be convinced otherwise.

716
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 3: And actually those people giving that feedback, they actually aren't

717
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 3: your customer. They're never going to buy, and so you

718
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 3: don't really need to give them the answers. Whereas I

719
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 3: was really feeling like I cared about what the customer thought,

720
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 3: but I had to draw a line somewhere and be like, Okay,

721
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: that doesn't need any more oxygen because I've given everything

722
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: that I can and therefore I can't do anything more.

723
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 3: And so you kind of then just need to know

724
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 3: when to move on.

725
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: Gosh, you really have seen the good, the bad, and

726
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 2: the ugly yea of social media, haven't you already? Yeah,

727
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: at this, you know, relatively early stage in your career,

728
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: despite what you've already achieved. It's so enormous. I mean,

729
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: it's a necessary tool if you're trying to promote something,

730
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 2: isn't it in this day and age, especially if you're

731
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 2: trying to reach a younger audience. If there's someone listening

732
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 2: to this who wants to start a business and they're

733
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 2: trying to, you know, set things up and get themselves noticed.

734
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: What would be your one piece of advice for generating

735
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: traction on social media?

736
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 1: Oh? I think.

737
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 3: A lot of people will see what's worked for other

738
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 3: people on social media and want to replicate it. And

739
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 3: I think the one thing that will make your content

740
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 3: work on social media is when it's unique to you.

741
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 3: And I always say this to business owners is no

742
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 3: one has your story. It's a one thing that you

743
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 3: have that is different from everyone else's, So just tell it.

744
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,959
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of people can get caught

745
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 3: up in, you know, almost looking sideways a lot of

746
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 3: the time at what other people are doing. And I

747
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 3: always say, just you know, if you are sharing authentically,

748
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 3: then I feel like that's always the best path forward.

749
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 3: But you do also at the same time need interesting

750
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 3: things to be going on in your business. So it's

751
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 3: sort of you know, knowing how to construct it in

752
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 3: a way that's interesting for someone to watch, Like what's

753
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 3: the purpose of the content, and knowing that not just

754
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: putting content out for content's sake, but then doing it

755
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 3: in a way that's like unique to you because that's

756
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 3: actually the one thing that will make you cut through.

757
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very wise, just do you Yeah, on a

758
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: personal level. So here at the payoff, obviously, we're really

759
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 2: focused on financial security for younger generations who face really

760
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 2: unique hurdles I think to long term financial security. And

761
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: I'm interested to know for you, as as a woman,

762
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: what does financial independence mean to you? How important is

763
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: that to you?

764
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 3: Oh, I think hugely important. Even when you look at

765
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 3: and I have this conversation in my office actually because

766
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 3: I employ so many young women, and I think financial

767
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 3: literacy is everything in terms of It's probably the number

768
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 3: one thing that keeps people in abusive relationships, and so

769
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 3: I think being financially literate and having control over your

770
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 3: finances is so important so that you can make decisions

771
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 3: in your life, you know, freely. So I would say

772
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 3: for me, I outside of the business have been on

773
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 3: quite a steep learning curve. I think the business really

774
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 3: helped me because I had so much insight commercially into

775
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 3: how a business works, but I undertook my own education

776
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: outside of work to understand investing. And you know, I

777
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 3: almost see the business as one thing that I'm doing

778
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 3: for my finances, but it's I wouldn't want to put

779
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 3: all my eggs in one basket. So I've done a

780
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 3: lot of other things outside of work to try and

781
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 3: build stability in case this one thing, you know, falls over.

782
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 3: And I think it is so hard for young women

783
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 3: but also just young people in general to get into

784
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 3: the property market and do all of these things that

785
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 3: a lot of people would deem you know, financially stable

786
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: things to do.

787
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: Milestones.

788
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think like personally, I've taken a completely

789
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 3: different approach. I've never bought in Sydney. I bought an

790
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 3: investment property in Townsville, so your rentvestor yes, I'm a

791
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: rent vest That was one of the best decisions I

792
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 3: ever made. And so yeah, I've done things my own

793
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 3: way outside of work to make sure that you know, financially,

794
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 3: I feel secure, but in my own way because I

795
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 3: went through my own education and if I'd listened to

796
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 3: everything that everyone else was telling me, I actually wouldn't

797
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 3: have made those same decisions. So there's nothing more empowering

798
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 3: than educating yourself when it comes to finances.

799
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 2: And do you talk about this stuff with your goal friends?

800
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: Yes? Yes.

801
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: What are some of the big conversation starts for you

802
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 2: and your friends when it comes to personal finance?

803
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 3: Well, I think the property one is massive. And also

804
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 3: everyone's circumstances are different. You know a lot of people

805
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 3: may have help from parents or things like that, and

806
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 3: so everyone's circumstances are so different. And it's really interesting

807
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 3: even in your friendship group when you've got people in

808
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 3: different circumstances or trying to relate to each other around

809
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 3: this topic of finances. But the I have sent certain

810
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 3: podcasts to multiple friends, particularly around the property, like the

811
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: Equity Mates podcasts I've sent around to my friends. I've

812
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 3: sent them books, I've sent them links. And I think

813
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 3: that conversation and taking a real interest and being open

814
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 3: and transparent about it is like you're you're all like

815
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 3: equipping each other with these gems of knowledge. And I've

816
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 3: learned so much from my friends, and then I've been

817
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,439
Speaker 3: able to you know, in part what I've learned to them,

818
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 3: and so it's such an important It's like it's like

819
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 3: breakfast conversation really. And I've spoken to the girls in

820
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 3: my office about it as well, because I've heard little

821
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: little things in passing, whether I'll say I'm too dumb

822
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 3: to know that, or you know, you know, they might

823
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 3: leave it up to their partner to decide something, and

824
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 3: I'm like, ah, no, no, no, no, like we need

825
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 3: to we need to upskill. And our CFO, who's my mother,

826
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 3: obviously very financially literate human being, has offered to you know,

827
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 3: run budgeting workshops with the team in the office stuff

828
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 3: because she she was also a massive part of me

829
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 3: becoming financially independent and you know, feeling in control of

830
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 3: my finances, budgeting all of these things.

831
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, she really helped.

832
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 2: How good is your mum?

833
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: Yes she's the best.

834
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: Okay. So, as a gen Z boss who employs a

835
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 2: lot of gen Z women, what would be your advice

836
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: to an employer out there on how to retain and

837
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: motivate gen Z workers.

838
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 3: I guess every person is different, Like I would say,

839
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 3: gen zs have their own way of working, and a

840
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 3: lot of the gen zs that I employed, this is

841
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 3: actually their first workplace they've ever been into. So I

842
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 3: think for me it was just about.

843
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 1: Finding out, like what what.

844
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 3: Was it about them that you know, motivated them or

845
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 3: kept them in the workplace, And I don't know, I

846
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 3: think it's more of like a broader cultural thing where

847
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 3: if you give them a voice, if you give them ownership,

848
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 3: if you actually tap into the things that make them

849
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 3: like actually incredible for your workforce, which is probably not

850
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 3: your typical like you know, employee, if you can understand

851
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 3: them and give them ownership, I would say that's probably

852
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 3: one of the key things that has meant I've retained

853
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 3: you know, my whole team essentially of gen Z employees.

854
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 3: And flexibility, Yeah, flexibility is important. Again, I don't know

855
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 3: whether it's a little bit stereotyped though with gen zs,

856
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 3: like I've seen, I've seen my employees you know, come

857
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 3: into the office more days because they want to be.

858
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: There or pretty fun boss, you know, but I think that's.

859
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: Also part of it.

860
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 3: So I give them the right environment. Yeah, if they

861
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 3: don't want to come into the office, find out why, like,

862
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 3: and that is my advice is ask the questions, like,

863
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 3: actually understand what is it that means they want to work?

864
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: Flexible?

865
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, childcare is it?

866
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, because then you can address all those things or

867
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: you know, that's where I say, like get to the

868
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 3: bottom of the person, because I think that they can

869
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 3: be so quickly written off, you know, as a generation

870
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 3: or whatever. But from what I've seen from my gen

871
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 3: Z employees that they're something like the most hard working

872
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 3: and like I don't know that they deeply care about

873
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 3: their work, Yeah, which I actually think is a superpower

874
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 3: if you can harness it correctly. Yeah, it's so true

875
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 3: that they're very purpose driven. Yeah, I think from you know,

876
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 3: my experience, Yeah, with younger colleagues here and very purpose driven.

877
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

878
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 2: Okay, so what's next for Rachel Wild?

879
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, what is next.

880
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,439
Speaker 3: Well, we actually have some big international launchers come up,

881
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 3: so we do have.

882
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 2: The world domination.

883
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, world domination hopefully also lots of new products. That is,

884
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 3: honestly the thing that keeps like us all really really

885
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 3: busy is constant product development. And it's now going to

886
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,399
Speaker 3: be for Booth as well. So yeah, I would say

887
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 3: lots of new products, international markets. The team's growing constantly.

888
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,720
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm just hanging on for dear life. Really,

889
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 3: that's what's next for me.

890
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 2: You're more than hanging on for are you okay? You're

891
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 2: hanging in there because it is a lot.

892
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: No, I'm fine. I'm fine.

893
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 3: I do work with a business coach and everything, and

894
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 3: he does keep me in check, you know. He and

895
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 3: my motto for this year was meant to be going

896
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: fast by going slow. I'm not sure I'm doing it well,

897
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 3: but but yeah, no, I know how to balance it.

898
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 3: I do my best at least, but there's just some

899
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 3: periods like recently where I've just had to sort of

900
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 3: give up control.

901
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 1: And ride the wave. But yeah, hopefully planning in a

902
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: few breaks now.

903
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, nice, well earned. Thank you so much. Thank for

904
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 2: giving us some time today. Thanks great, Thanks for having

905
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 2: me pleasure, and thank you for listening to this episode

906
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: of the Payoff with Me, Sylvia Jeffries. To get our

907
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 2: episodes for free as soon as we publish, press the

908
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: follow button in your podcast app right now, See you

909
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 2: next time.