WEBVTT - Pepper spray for citizens - why not security guards?

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<v Speaker 1>Northern Territory government is considering a trial to let territorians

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<v Speaker 1>carry pepper spray.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that right? Yeah, that's right. I don't know whether

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<v Speaker 2>you're aware or not, but Western Australia has already wronged

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<v Speaker 2>out this plan where they are under strict guidelines of course,

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<v Speaker 2>owing people in Western Australia to be able to gain

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<v Speaker 2>access to sea spray or pepper spray or capsican spray,

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<v Speaker 2>whatever you would like to call it. But now and

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<v Speaker 2>Tea is actually looking at that as well. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to be a really interesting time because there's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people on the fence about this. I actually

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<v Speaker 2>bored anything or an item or a product that is

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<v Speaker 2>nonthol that's going to allow people to protect themselves. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think again we're actually addressing really gray area and

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<v Speaker 2>legal field here in regards to the roll out and

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<v Speaker 2>the usage of capsican spray.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, to me, it sounds like a ridiculous idea.

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<v Speaker 2>What's ironic to me? And this is sort of where

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<v Speaker 2>I've got my back just a lot, to be honest

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<v Speaker 2>with you feel because here they are they're rolling it

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<v Speaker 2>out to pavilions to carry under strict guidelines. So we've

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<v Speaker 2>got lawful self defense. We've got reason grounds there'll be

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<v Speaker 2>purchase restrictions in WA and Northern Territory, which meant that

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<v Speaker 2>potentially licensed gun vendors will actually you won't be able

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<v Speaker 2>to buy it over the counter at Bunnings. But here

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<v Speaker 2>we've got a situation where security personnel who potentially are

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<v Speaker 2>licensed and have the training to be able to carry

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<v Speaker 2>the OC spry cannot carry it or use it in

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<v Speaker 2>the course of their duties, but they are selling it

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<v Speaker 2>and roll out to civilians.

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<v Speaker 1>What's the territory on that with security guards? Is that nationwide?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's right, it's nationwide. At the moment they OC

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<v Speaker 2>spray is considered a prohibitive weapon if used in the

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<v Speaker 2>course of duty. So in actual fact, as a security

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<v Speaker 2>officer across Australia, we can potentially purchase it as a civilian,

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<v Speaker 2>but we can't use it in the course of our duties.

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<v Speaker 2>So if we feel like that we're in imminent danger

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<v Speaker 2>as a civilian, we can utilize.

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<v Speaker 1>This now, but not as a security guard.

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<v Speaker 2>Not as a security And again, you think after this

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<v Speaker 2>bond Eie tragedy that happened in Sydney, you would think

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<v Speaker 2>that we would be the first people that could do

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<v Speaker 2>the trials utilize the OC spray, But it's not they're

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<v Speaker 2>selling it and giving it to civilians. But also what

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<v Speaker 2>they're doing is saying that you need to use it

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<v Speaker 2>for appropriate use. Now, my thoughts or perception of imminent

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<v Speaker 2>anger and life threatening may be a little bit different

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<v Speaker 2>to yours feel So how are they actually going to

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<v Speaker 2>circumnavigate that A will? Did you use it and misappropriately

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<v Speaker 2>use that? Like? How are they going to determine this?

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<v Speaker 1>And a couple of things. You would have more right

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<v Speaker 1>to use it than I would because you're a security guide.

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<v Speaker 1>And also the Bondi junction thing wasn't just a one

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<v Speaker 1>off anymore. You've got all of those situations going on

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<v Speaker 1>with the machetes and everything like that at the shopping centers.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's exactly right. Even though the stats aren't out

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<v Speaker 2>for twenty twenty five at the moment, in regards to

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<v Speaker 2>crime rate, they're saying that there's been a two point

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<v Speaker 2>one percent increase in violent crime, which doesn't sound a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>but across Australia that's about four hundred and fifty thousand

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<v Speaker 2>violent incidents. When we're talking assaults, grievous body harm that

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<v Speaker 2>has occurred across Australia on top of the already stats

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<v Speaker 2>that we have, and the fact that security personnel first

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<v Speaker 2>responders the majority of the time, you know, and people

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<v Speaker 2>yell out security or the sirens go off wherever we are,

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<v Speaker 2>we are the first responders. We respond, We take that

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<v Speaker 2>on board and then we contact the emergency services and

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<v Speaker 2>saying this would have changed anything, but potentially if we

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<v Speaker 2>had to have access to OC spray or the pepper

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<v Speaker 2>spray and the Bondo tragedy, you know, And I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>saying this is the case, I'm saying what would the

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<v Speaker 2>outcome have been?

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<v Speaker 1>If you're in a position to defend yourself and you've

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<v Speaker 1>got the training, then I absolutely believe you should have it.

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<v Speaker 1>What are the prerequisites though, what are the requirements that

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<v Speaker 1>you have to have legally in Western Australia and under

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<v Speaker 1>the trial in the Northern Territory as a civilian to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to get hold of pepper spray.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, all you have to do is go into a

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<v Speaker 2>license dealer. You've got to have a state address, being

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<v Speaker 2>Western Australia or Northern Territory. So I can't travel from

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<v Speaker 2>New South Wales and go into the wa interest. But

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<v Speaker 2>you've got to have lawful self defense. So you've got

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<v Speaker 2>to actually come a like you actually need that in

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<v Speaker 2>regards to lawful self defense. Only what's the criteria? There

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<v Speaker 2>is none at this time. Reasonable grounds is another. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's saying it there's nothing that actually really qualifies

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<v Speaker 2>what the reasonable ground is because that's a legal isn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's exactly right, And the government is sort of showing

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<v Speaker 2>due diligence and they're saying, well, wiling this out to

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<v Speaker 2>protect people. And again I applaud anything that is non

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<v Speaker 2>lethal of course to protect people. But use limitations. Tell

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<v Speaker 2>me what that is, phil like, what is the usage

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<v Speaker 2>limitations including unlawful possession of a weapon.

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<v Speaker 1>And how can you verify whether or not the person

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<v Speaker 1>that used it was actually under threat?

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I'm saying. I'm saying perception of imminent danger

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<v Speaker 2>is totally different to what I see to what you

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<v Speaker 2>would see.

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<v Speaker 1>It's based on the perception of what's in front of you.

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<v Speaker 1>If you were trained security guard, you know, if you're

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<v Speaker 1>a person who's walking down the street, you assume that

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<v Speaker 1>you've got imminent danger.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's exactly right. But another thing is is that

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<v Speaker 2>the civilian that actually gains access to this OC spray

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't need to be certified or trained. So here we go.

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<v Speaker 2>There's also they're going to have penalties for misusage. Now

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<v Speaker 2>when that gets into the court system, how are they

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<v Speaker 2>going to determine that because there's four thousand dollars?

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<v Speaker 1>Well that was my point exactly, how are you going

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<v Speaker 1>to verify it? How can you prove in court what

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<v Speaker 1>the situation was unless you've got foot each of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, exactly right. And that's when we come back

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<v Speaker 2>to security personnel. Like we've got reactive protective equipment at

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<v Speaker 2>the moment in regards to stab proofs. We've got the

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<v Speaker 2>body cams, but we haven't got the preventative measures. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>like I said, we can, we can purchase it as

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<v Speaker 2>a civilian, but we can't use it in the course.

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<v Speaker 1>Of a ridiculous law. That's a crazy law. Let's open

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<v Speaker 1>up the phones on this treena.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'd be interested to see what people think about this,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly paramedics, because they're actually coming forward and saying that

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<v Speaker 2>spraying this stuff can affect your breathing as well. So

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people on the fence here