WEBVTT - Foraging for tasty mushrooms 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:03.520 Nine podcasts. 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:08.240 Aaron Patterson tells the jury about picking wild mushrooms, putting 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:10.760 them in food for her children, and adding to a 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.440 jar of dried mushrooms in her pantry. The accused killer 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:16.920 crying in the witness box as she told the court 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:21.000 she never should have sent expletive laden text messages about 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:21.759 her in laws. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:27.280 Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives an. 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:31.280 Australian family's meal is now the center of a homicide investigation. 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.200 For bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines. 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.040 Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:40.519 she'd serve them at her home. I cannot think of 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.320 another investigation that has generated this level of media and 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.120 public interest. Four of the guests of that lunch were 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.120 much loved members of this church. 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:52.159 Only one will ever return. 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:57.480 People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people. 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.160 Today, Aaron Pattison remained here inside her home. 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:06.520 She's continued to plead her innocence in a courtroom in 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:07.440 Country Victoria. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.080 Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using death cap 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.520 mushrooms to kill She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.200 of her former in laws and attempting to kill a fourth, 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.600 the town's church pastor. It's up to the jurors to 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.160 decide what happened when Patterson's loved ones sat down to eat. 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.880 Aaron Patterson has been on the stand for a number 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.640 of hours now giving her evidence. When we last checked 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.920 in with the listeners, she'd just begun in front of 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:37.880 the jury, But she's been taken through a whole range 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:39.720 of topics now by her defense lawyer. 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.360 Yeah, there was many, many, many topics that were gone 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.280 through today in the hours that Aaron Patterson's on the stand. 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.120 It's her second day in the witness box, and we 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.520 heard towards the end of the day, specifically just before 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.640 lunchtime and after lunchtime, was when questions were raised not 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:59.520 just about her personal situation and circumstances and thoughts and feelings, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.640 but really about her interest in mushrooms, Penny. We heard 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.120 while she was being questioned by her defense barrister, Colin 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.720 Mandy sc questions around you do you accept that there 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:12.400 were deathcat mushrooms in the meal. 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:12.880 That you cooked? 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:14.200 Yes, Sharon, she does. 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:16.040 Aaron Patterson said yes. 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.480 And she also was asked a number of questions about 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:23.480 foraging for wild mushrooms, about picking them on her property, 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.760 picking them in other areas around car and Borough and surrounds. 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:29.400 And will take you to that evidence as it came 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.720 to the jury in sort of the order that it 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:34.200 was presented, But we want to take you through a 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.880 really full look at what the jury has been told 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.640 so far, so we might start with what Aaron Patterson 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.640 was being asked about with her family situation, sort of 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:48.880 around the time of the separation, the formal separation she 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.320 put at with Simon that came at the end of 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:52.400 twenty fifteen. 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:54.880 Yeah, she gave a bit of an insight into her 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:59.280 turbulent marriage at that time. She explained that she explained 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:00.640 that there was a number of break ups that had 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.239 happened in the lead lead up to that time. They've 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.800 been reconciliations as well, but they formally separated in twenty fifteen, 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.480 and it was in the immediate aftermath the weeks that 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.520 she was explaining to the jury that it was difficult 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.679 and there'd been other separations that were that you know, 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.560 had only lasted a handful of weeks, but she really 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:20.960 felt that at this time after twenty fifteen, after they 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.040 got through some of those difficult moments, that they really 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:24.240 went back to being good friends. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.200 Let's hear a little bit of what Aaron Patterson said 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.000 in her evidence while speaking with her barrister, Colin Mandy. 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:31.160 It's voiced by actors. 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:36.680 So after that period, shortly after that period that formal separation, 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.560 how was the communication between you and Simon, Like. 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.720 In the immediate after math, you know, weeks it was difficult, 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.480 as it had been at other separations, but that had 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.520 only lasted a handful of weeks. We went back to 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:51.040 just being really good friends. 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.240 Did you reflect on the reasons why the two of 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:55.040 you had separated? 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:57.800 Yeah, constantly. I didn't want to be separated, but I 0:03:57.800 --> 0:03:59.200 felt there was no choice. 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.880 And what do you put the breakdown of that relationship too? 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.640 Our primary problem was if we had a disagreement or 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.240 any kind of conflict, we didn't seem to be able 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:09.960 to talk about it in a way where either of 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.320 us felt heard or understood. We just would feel hurt 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:14.800 and we really didn't know how to do that. 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:15.120 Well. 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.919 You said that when you separated, you maintained the friendship 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:21.080 that you'd had before. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.960 Yeah, we did because we continued to like, really liked 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.919 each other still, it was just the living together that 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:29.160 didn't work. Now. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:33.240 Aaron Patterson was also asked about the family relationships and dynamics. 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.600 She gave evidence that when that she and Simon decided 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.680 to move to Victoria after they'd been living in wa 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.160 with their young son, that by that time she was 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.719 pregnant with their daughter, and that she moved over to 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.320 Victoria and they stayed in car and borrow with don 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.359 and Gail Patterson for around six weeks, after spending some 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.400 time traveling over and traveling in New Zealand as well. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:57.640 She said that was the time that she really enjoyed. 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.760 She said, well, while that they were staying at Donn 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:01.800 and ga Ayle's house, they were the three of them 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.160 all in the one room, and it was quite yeah, 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:06.159 I guess, quite. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.719 Busy in the household. She did really enjoy it. 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:12.039 She really enjoyed being around Gail Patterson in particular, who 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.320 she told the jury was really good at sort. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:15.320 Of helping her with parenthood. 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.440 Yeah, and she sort of talked through this time also 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.919 about getting to know other members of the family and 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.080 the part of the reason that they had moved back 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.000 from wa She said was that their young child at 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.120 that time really enjoyed spending time with their cousins, and 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:31.920 they wanted that child to grow. 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:33.000 Up in that way. 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.520 And as she mentioned and I said before that she 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.000 knew at the time that they were coming back over 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.640 to Victoria that she was actually pregnant with their second child. 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.080 And she went on to talk about this relationship, and 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.560 she was asked sort of about how that was in 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.360 the later years as she and Simon had gone through 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.800 these separations. Let's hear a little bit more of Aaron 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.240 Patterson's evidence while she was speaking about the broader family 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.320 relationships with Don and Gail as well as Ian and Heather. 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:00.880 This is for by actors. 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.760 So does that mean in terms of Don Gale, you 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:06.800 and the children continued to see them often. 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.640 Yeah, we did. We'd go to their house often for 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.440 lunch with Simon. Without Simon, they would drop in and 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.000 knock on my door sometimes to drop things off. They 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.000 would have the children over to play and have sleepovers. 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:20.240 They were very involved. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.599 What about your relationship with Heather and Ian over the years. 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:27.640 You told the jury that when you met Ian when 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:31.320 you came back from Western Australia in twenty thirteen, did 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.840 you start attending the current Borough Baptist Church. 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.920 Yeah, it would have probably been twenty Yeah, it would 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.760 have been twenty thirteen. Yeah. I have a clear memory 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.160 of sitting with my daughter not long after she'd been 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:47.320 born in the pews, so it'd definitely been going by then. Yeah. 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.960 And how much contact did you have with Heather and Ian? 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:52.640 So I'd always have a chat with them after church 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.320 if I could. You know, Ian was very popular as 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:57.920 the pastor and always had a lot of people wanting 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.440 to talk to him. But Heather would always make a 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.680 point of coming to talk to me, and I saw 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.159 them sometimes at Christmas gatherings, you know, that side of 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.920 the family. I probably didn't get to chat with Ian 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:10.120 so much, but Heather would always go out of her 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.080 way and come and sit with me and make sure 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:13.040 that I had company. 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.280 Now, other areas that Aaron Patterson was taken to in 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:18.600 her evidence was also financial matters. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:19.160 Now. 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.680 The jury was told through her evidence that she had 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.000 been the beneficiary of an inheritance from her grandmother, that 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.960 she started receiving a sort of installments of that around 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.680 two thousand and seven, and that the last was in 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:32.640 twenty fifteen. 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:34.480 She told the jury that commercial. 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.360 Properties had to be sold in order for that to 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:38.840 be worked out, and she gave evidence that this allowed 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.560 her and Simon to buy their first property, which was 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.000 in wa without a mortgage, and then to help out 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:45.239 his siblings as well. 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.320 They were also able to do a bit of travel 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:51.120 international and across Australia in terms of that traveling and 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:55.200 when they eventually moved back to Victoria, Aaron Patterson was 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.360 explaining to the jury that they sold the property in 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.640 Western Australia and were able to purchase property in the 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.920 Gippsland area and by the end twenty fifteen, should I 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:09.240 say that the end of their relationship, the houses were 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.679 both in each other's name. Still they were living apart, 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:13.880 but they both had the houses in each other's names. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:15.320 And she was asked why. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.440 That was, and her explanation was she really always saw 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:22.200 it being a family home, sort of coming back together 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.360 in a way, and that was the way that she 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:27.640 was trying to cite way that she was trying to 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.840 show Simon how she felt about having to use words 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.120 but by using actions to show him that this is 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:34.760 what she wanted. 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:36.520 Yeah, she said that was sort of she felt a 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:40.040 tangible act by putting both their names on these properties. 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.439 She felt that it showed ultimately that she would really 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:45.520 have liked the family to come back together. But it 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.560 was noted in her evidence that that eventually changed. That 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:52.080 Simon put a property that's been called Nathan Street where 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.720 he was living at the time, and she's given evidence 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.640 continues to live that that went into his name, and 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:01.120 that a property at Mount Waverley and also block known 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.800 as Gibson's Street in Lee and Gatha where Aaron Patterson 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.720 eventually built a house that those went into her name instead. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:07.960 Now. 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:09.280 She was also asked. 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.840 Quite a bit about her health over the years and 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.680 about particular concerns that she'd gone to a doctor about, 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:17.920 and she was taken back to evidence that the jury 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.120 has seen a number of times, which included screenshots of 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:26.760 different sort of medical website screenshots about symptoms and diagnosis 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.000 notes regarding different forms of cancer. 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.680 Yeah, it was at this point Colin Mandy asked his 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.720 client point blank did you ever have cancer? 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:36.920 And she said no. She was also then asked if 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:37.560 she'd ever had. 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.600 A biopsy on her arm, on her elbow, and she 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.360 said no, and that's when there was more questions about 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.520 her medical records, which was shown on the screen, and 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:47.440 she was speaking the witness box about how she was 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.920 feeling at that time, and she explained that she was 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.920 really worried that she could have cancer, that family members 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.720 had cancer. There was also discussions over whether or not 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:57.920 it could be ams or other sorts. 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.120 Of things like that. So that was her headspace at 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:00.560 the time. 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.200 Yeah, it will take you to a little bit of 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:06.000 this evidence now, inn Colin Mandy is referring to some 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.839 notes that he says the jury has heard before from 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.760 a doctor, doctor Cassie, who was referred to a number 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.880 of times in Aaron Patterson's evidence and has been referred 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:16.400 to previously in the trial. 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.280 What was what were your symptoms? What was going on? 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.520 I'd been having a few months by then, a multitude 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:27.439 of symptoms. I felt very fatigued. I had ongoing abdominal pain, 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:29.800 I had chronic headaches, I put on a lot of 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.600 weight in quite a short period of time, and had 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.360 like my feet and my hands seemed to retain a 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.160 lot of fluid. And what set me over the edge 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.480 to actually go to the doctor was my wedding ring 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.360 suddenly wouldn't fit, and so I took them to the 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.520 local jeweler to be resized. Only a few weeks later, 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.079 when I picked them up, like they like, my hands 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.120 had outgrown them again. And so this was like a 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:53.800 rapid thing that caused me concern. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:11:00.319 Now the note indicates this erin Warriors ovarian cancer has 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.880 been googling her symptoms. That's right, Yeah, is that what 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:04.560 you had been doing? 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.000 I had, Yeah, I consulted doctor Google. 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.199 Were there any other reasons, apart from your own symptoms 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.160 why you thought you might have avarian cancer? 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.800 Yeah, there were a few. I had a family history 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.600 of it on both sides of my parents. I'd had 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.760 an ovaria insist myself in about two thousand and two, 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:24.480 and my daughter had an avarian mass when she was 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:25.040 a baby. 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.960 And how was your daughter's averian mass identified? 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.840 So right from when she was born, I thought there 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.040 was something wrong. She cried a lot, but not normal crying. 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:36.960 I'd already had one baby by then, and I knew 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:41.160 what to expect. She cried for a lot, for long 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.320 durations that I thought demonstrated pain. I took her to 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.760 a lot of doctors and even the hospital, and what 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:49.800 they communicated to me was that I was an over 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.280 anxious mother that should relax, and she's just a normal baby. 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.920 How old was she so all through that period she was. 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.280 The mass was diagnosed in August, so she was eight 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.720 months old by the time it was actually. 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.440 Diagnosed, diagnosed by a doctor. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:11.160 Yeah, that's right. But I discovered the mass myself. So 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.840 I had formed a habit of giving her a massage 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.280 on her belly after a shower. It seemed to calm 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.800 her down. And when I did it that day, I 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.840 could feel something and so I said to someone, we've 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:23.800 got to take it to the hospital, and that's what 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:28.199 we did, and they still dismissed me. Even then. They 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:30.480 said that they thought she just had a very full 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.880 bladder and we should wait until she voided her bladder 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:35.200 and it was still there. 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.120 So, in terms of that experience with her in hospital, 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.040 how did that make you feel about hospitals thereafter? 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:48.760 It considerably damaged my faith in the health system. I 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.600 didn't love hospitals before, like who does, but I didn't 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.160 trust that these people knew what they were doing. I 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.880 was just in a heightened state of anxiety. Ever after, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.319 it was hard enough to get her in the first place. 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.440 I didn't want to lose her now. 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.679 Her barrister, Colin Mandy, took Aaron Patterson through a number 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.679 of other elements as you mentioned MS, also lupus and 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.360 other autoimmune disease was mentioned whether she maybe had concerns 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.440 about her brain and her heart at different points in time, 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.760 and Aaron Patterson said that she did. She noted in 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:24.079 her evidence that she was quite anxious about her health, 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.280 and she said that she'd lost faith in the healthcare 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.000 system because of this anecdote the listeners have just heard 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.720 regarding her daughter's health early in her life. And she 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.080 also spoke about some operations her son had needed to 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.920 undergo for issues with his knees, and she felt that 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.520 she hadn't been listened to by doctors there as well. 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.400 She ultimately said in her evidence that she'd been really 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.920 self diagnosing and that she had been using doctor Google 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.960 in her own words, and she said that she felt 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.559 she actually had wasted medical professionals time. 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.760 That's when the conversation between the two then changed to 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.600 what was going on with the copair granting, the child 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.960 support payments, their arrangements and alike. This was late twenty 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.200 twenty two, around December twenty twenty two, when she was 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.840 having these conversations with Don and Gail and Simon about 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:12.960 what was going on with the kids and paying of 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.080 school fees and things like that, and she was telling 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.800 the jury that she'd grown quite frustrated with the situation. 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:18.520 At that point. 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.320 She was feeling angry and unheard, and she turned to 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.200 her Facebook friends. In this Facebook chat with herd a 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.680 little bit about she felt that those women were her 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.160 cheer squad, and it was in that group that she 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.120 explained that they talked about religion, life, children and the 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.600 things they cooked and news events. But when she was 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.440 feeling this frustration, she turned to them and she sent 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.720 them a few messages about the family. And these were 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.120 messages she said in the witness box today that she 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.440 deeply regretted that there are ones that she was quite 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.560 emotional about when they were being read out. She had 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.240 a lot of regret, she was saying, and felt really 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.640 ashamed that the family had to listen to those as 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:56.680 they were read out in court. 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.520 Yeah, and as the listeners will have heard us talk 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.120 about many times. These messages are up on the screen 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.920 for the jury to read, and it's on their iPads 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.880 as well, and as part of it, Colin Man DSc as. 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.880 Different barristers often have have read out different parts of 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.520 what's being shown on the screen, and Aaron Patterson was 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.360 certainly seemed quite emotional during this time. 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:19.760 She was struggling to get some. 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.600 Of her words out, particularly when she was asked about 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.000 this message which will go to in a moment, But 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.520 she was really talking about that she wanted Don and 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.240 Gail Patterson to be adjudicating in the things that were 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.600 going on between her and Simon at that time. But 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.040 as you'll hear, she now feels she said to the 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.320 jury that that really wasn't what she should have been 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.400 asking at the time. He's a little bit of the 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.240 evidence as it was presented to the court. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:47.440 It's no one's real voice. 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.160 Did you communicate with each other about personal things? 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:50.560 Yes? 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.320 And was there something that you did or everyone did? 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:57.320 We all did, and that is personal things about your relationships. 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.640 Correct. It became a safe vent in space for all 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:01.040 of us. 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.200 And how did it feel when you were venting in 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:03.800 that space? 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.920 I felt heard and validated and understood. 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.200 Because when you were saying things like this, this family, 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.480 I swear to God, what kind of responses, were you 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:16.560 getting well? 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.640 I mean, and even if you include the sentence beforehand 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.440 about the emojis and about the praying. I knew that 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.960 the women would probably support me being annoyed about those things, 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.360 and so I said to them, knowing that they would 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.000 latch on and you know, like become like a cheer 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.000 squad for your problem, if that makes sense. 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.920 Yes. And in terms of the communication on this online 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.520 friends chat, did you regard it as private? Yeah? 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.040 It did. Yeah, it was private. 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.840 Looking at those words now, this family, I swear to God, 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:51.560 how do you feel about it? 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.920 I wish i'd never said it. I feel very I 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.400 feel ashamed for saying it, and I wish the family 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.000 didn't have to hear that I said it. They didn't 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:00.640 deserve it. 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.400 We'll take a break and when we return, we'll come 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.160 back with Aaron Patterson's evidence. When she was being asked 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:10.320 about her interest in mushrooms, now, Aaron Patterson, as again 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.119 part of these Facebook messages, was asked about whether she 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.480 sort of told her Facebook friends and told that through 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.679 her barrister that the courts heard evidence from some of 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.520 these Facebook friends that she had a real love of mushrooms, 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:22.639 and she agreed. 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:23.440 That yes, she did. 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:25.960 She thought that these were really healthy, and she said 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:27.280 that they were just really tasty. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.520 It was something that she really enjoyed eating. It was 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.199 an answer that she gave again and again over a 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:37.040 certain window of this questioning. And the mother of two 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.560 told the jury that she really developed this interest in 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:45.400 mushrooms and foraging also of mushrooms Penny during the COVID pandemic, 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.120 and that was around twenty twenty for those who may 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.359 not remember, but it was the March or April of 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.639 twenty twenty, and she was remembering. 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:54.640 That she would go on walks with her kids. 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:56.480 She want to take the kids off the screens and 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:58.560 get them out of the house, and they would go 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.240 for a walk to the nearby coral Borough Potanical Gardens, 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.680 and that's where she said she first started to see 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.160 mushrooms or get a bit of an interesting in them, 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.200 notice them, and then that spread over the following couple 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.640 of years to looking for them at a nearby rail 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.560 trail and also in her own backyard. There were places 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:15.880 that she remembered picking them. 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.800 Yeah, And throughout this evidence, the listeners will hear when 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.720 Aaron Patterson is referring to different properties. There's two properties 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.840 being referred to, one called Shelcott Road and one Gibson 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.800 Street in Lee and Gatha. Now, she spoke about this 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.480 love of mushrooms, of the taste of them, of putting 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.360 them in food, and she was also asked about shopping 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.959 for them, you know, at Grosses on trips to Melbourne, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.000 and she said she pretty much every school holidays would 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:40.720 take her kids on a trip to Melbourne and that's 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.720 often when she'd go shopping and buy some of these 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.439