1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Nine podcasts. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson tells the jury about picking wild mushrooms, putting 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 2: them in food for her children, and adding to a 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: jar of dried mushrooms in her pantry. The accused killer 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 2: crying in the witness box as she told the court 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: she never should have sent expletive laden text messages about 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 2: her in laws. 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 3: Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives an. 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 4: Australian family's meal is now the center of a homicide investigation. 10 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 4: For bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines. 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch 12 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 2: she'd serve them at her home. I cannot think of 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: another investigation that has generated this level of media and 14 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: public interest. Four of the guests of that lunch were 15 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: much loved members of this church. 16 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: Only one will ever return. 17 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 3: People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people. 18 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: Today, Aaron Pattison remained here inside her home. 19 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: She's continued to plead her innocence in a courtroom in 20 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Country Victoria. 21 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using death cap 22 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: mushrooms to kill She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three 23 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: of her former in laws and attempting to kill a fourth, 24 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: the town's church pastor. It's up to the jurors to 25 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: decide what happened when Patterson's loved ones sat down to eat. 26 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson has been on the stand for a number 27 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 2: of hours now giving her evidence. When we last checked 28 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: in with the listeners, she'd just begun in front of 29 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 2: the jury, But she's been taken through a whole range 30 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: of topics now by her defense lawyer. 31 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, there was many, many, many topics that were gone 32 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 4: through today in the hours that Aaron Patterson's on the stand. 33 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 4: It's her second day in the witness box, and we 34 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 4: heard towards the end of the day, specifically just before 35 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 4: lunchtime and after lunchtime, was when questions were raised not 36 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 4: just about her personal situation and circumstances and thoughts and feelings, 37 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 4: but really about her interest in mushrooms, Penny. We heard 38 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 4: while she was being questioned by her defense barrister, Colin 39 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 4: Mandy sc questions around you do you accept that there 40 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 4: were deathcat mushrooms in the meal. 41 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 5: That you cooked? 42 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: Yes, Sharon, she does. 43 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 5: Aaron Patterson said yes. 44 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: And she also was asked a number of questions about 45 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: foraging for wild mushrooms, about picking them on her property, 46 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: picking them in other areas around car and Borough and surrounds. 47 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: And will take you to that evidence as it came 48 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: to the jury in sort of the order that it 49 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: was presented, But we want to take you through a 50 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: really full look at what the jury has been told 51 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 2: so far, so we might start with what Aaron Patterson 52 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 2: was being asked about with her family situation, sort of 53 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: around the time of the separation, the formal separation she 54 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: put at with Simon that came at the end of 55 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. 56 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, she gave a bit of an insight into her 57 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 4: turbulent marriage at that time. She explained that she explained 58 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 4: that there was a number of break ups that had 59 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 4: happened in the lead lead up to that time. They've 60 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 4: been reconciliations as well, but they formally separated in twenty fifteen, 61 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 4: and it was in the immediate aftermath the weeks that 62 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 4: she was explaining to the jury that it was difficult 63 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 4: and there'd been other separations that were that you know, 64 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 4: had only lasted a handful of weeks, but she really 65 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 4: felt that at this time after twenty fifteen, after they 66 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 4: got through some of those difficult moments, that they really 67 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 4: went back to being good friends. 68 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: Let's hear a little bit of what Aaron Patterson said 69 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: in her evidence while speaking with her barrister, Colin Mandy. 70 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: It's voiced by actors. 71 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 3: So after that period, shortly after that period that formal separation, 72 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 3: how was the communication between you and Simon, Like. 73 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 6: In the immediate after math, you know, weeks it was difficult, 74 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 6: as it had been at other separations, but that had 75 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 6: only lasted a handful of weeks. We went back to 76 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 6: just being really good friends. 77 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 3: Did you reflect on the reasons why the two of 78 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: you had separated? 79 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, constantly. I didn't want to be separated, but I 80 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 6: felt there was no choice. 81 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: And what do you put the breakdown of that relationship too? 82 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 6: Our primary problem was if we had a disagreement or 83 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 6: any kind of conflict, we didn't seem to be able 84 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 6: to talk about it in a way where either of 85 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 6: us felt heard or understood. We just would feel hurt 86 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 6: and we really didn't know how to do that. 87 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: Well. 88 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 3: You said that when you separated, you maintained the friendship 89 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: that you'd had before. 90 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 6: Yeah, we did because we continued to like, really liked 91 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 6: each other still, it was just the living together that 92 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 6: didn't work. Now. 93 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson was also asked about the family relationships and dynamics. 94 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: She gave evidence that when that she and Simon decided 95 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: to move to Victoria after they'd been living in wa 96 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 2: with their young son, that by that time she was 97 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 2: pregnant with their daughter, and that she moved over to 98 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: Victoria and they stayed in car and borrow with don 99 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 2: and Gail Patterson for around six weeks, after spending some 100 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 2: time traveling over and traveling in New Zealand as well. 101 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 5: She said that was the time that she really enjoyed. 102 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 4: She said, well, while that they were staying at Donn 103 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 4: and ga Ayle's house, they were the three of them 104 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 4: all in the one room, and it was quite yeah, 105 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 4: I guess, quite. 106 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 5: Busy in the household. She did really enjoy it. 107 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 4: She really enjoyed being around Gail Patterson in particular, who 108 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 4: she told the jury was really good at sort. 109 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 5: Of helping her with parenthood. 110 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and she sort of talked through this time also 111 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 2: about getting to know other members of the family and 112 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: the part of the reason that they had moved back 113 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: from wa She said was that their young child at 114 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: that time really enjoyed spending time with their cousins, and 115 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 2: they wanted that child to grow. 116 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: Up in that way. 117 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: And as she mentioned and I said before that she 118 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: knew at the time that they were coming back over 119 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: to Victoria that she was actually pregnant with their second child. 120 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: And she went on to talk about this relationship, and 121 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: she was asked sort of about how that was in 122 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 2: the later years as she and Simon had gone through 123 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: these separations. Let's hear a little bit more of Aaron 124 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: Patterson's evidence while she was speaking about the broader family 125 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 2: relationships with Don and Gail as well as Ian and Heather. 126 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 6: This is for by actors. 127 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 3: So does that mean in terms of Don Gale, you 128 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 3: and the children continued to see them often. 129 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, we did. We'd go to their house often for 130 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 6: lunch with Simon. Without Simon, they would drop in and 131 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 6: knock on my door sometimes to drop things off. They 132 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 6: would have the children over to play and have sleepovers. 133 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 6: They were very involved. 134 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 3: What about your relationship with Heather and Ian over the years. 135 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 3: You told the jury that when you met Ian when 136 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: you came back from Western Australia in twenty thirteen, did 137 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 3: you start attending the current Borough Baptist Church. 138 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, it would have probably been twenty Yeah, it would 139 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 6: have been twenty thirteen. Yeah. I have a clear memory 140 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 6: of sitting with my daughter not long after she'd been 141 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 6: born in the pews, so it'd definitely been going by then. Yeah. 142 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: And how much contact did you have with Heather and Ian? 143 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 6: So I'd always have a chat with them after church 144 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 6: if I could. You know, Ian was very popular as 145 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 6: the pastor and always had a lot of people wanting 146 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 6: to talk to him. But Heather would always make a 147 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 6: point of coming to talk to me, and I saw 148 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 6: them sometimes at Christmas gatherings, you know, that side of 149 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 6: the family. I probably didn't get to chat with Ian 150 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 6: so much, but Heather would always go out of her 151 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 6: way and come and sit with me and make sure 152 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 6: that I had company. 153 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 2: Now, other areas that Aaron Patterson was taken to in 154 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 2: her evidence was also financial matters. 155 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: Now. 156 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: The jury was told through her evidence that she had 157 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: been the beneficiary of an inheritance from her grandmother, that 158 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 2: she started receiving a sort of installments of that around 159 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, and that the last was in 160 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. 161 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: She told the jury that commercial. 162 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: Properties had to be sold in order for that to 163 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: be worked out, and she gave evidence that this allowed 164 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 2: her and Simon to buy their first property, which was 165 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: in wa without a mortgage, and then to help out 166 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 2: his siblings as well. 167 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 4: They were also able to do a bit of travel 168 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 4: international and across Australia in terms of that traveling and 169 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 4: when they eventually moved back to Victoria, Aaron Patterson was 170 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 4: explaining to the jury that they sold the property in 171 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 4: Western Australia and were able to purchase property in the 172 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 4: Gippsland area and by the end twenty fifteen, should I 173 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 4: say that the end of their relationship, the houses were 174 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,679 Speaker 4: both in each other's name. Still they were living apart, 175 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 4: but they both had the houses in each other's names. 176 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 5: And she was asked why. 177 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 4: That was, and her explanation was she really always saw 178 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 4: it being a family home, sort of coming back together 179 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 4: in a way, and that was the way that she 180 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 4: was trying to cite way that she was trying to 181 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 4: show Simon how she felt about having to use words 182 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 4: but by using actions to show him that this is 183 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 4: what she wanted. 184 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, she said that was sort of she felt a 185 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: tangible act by putting both their names on these properties. 186 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 2: She felt that it showed ultimately that she would really 187 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 2: have liked the family to come back together. But it 188 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 2: was noted in her evidence that that eventually changed. That 189 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 2: Simon put a property that's been called Nathan Street where 190 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 2: he was living at the time, and she's given evidence 191 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: continues to live that that went into his name, and 192 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: that a property at Mount Waverley and also block known 193 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: as Gibson's Street in Lee and Gatha where Aaron Patterson 194 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: eventually built a house that those went into her name instead. 195 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 5: Now. 196 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: She was also asked. 197 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 2: Quite a bit about her health over the years and 198 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 2: about particular concerns that she'd gone to a doctor about, 199 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: and she was taken back to evidence that the jury 200 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: has seen a number of times, which included screenshots of 201 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: different sort of medical website screenshots about symptoms and diagnosis 202 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: notes regarding different forms of cancer. 203 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was at this point Colin Mandy asked his 204 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 4: client point blank did you ever have cancer? 205 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 5: And she said no. She was also then asked if 206 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 5: she'd ever had. 207 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 4: A biopsy on her arm, on her elbow, and she 208 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 4: said no, and that's when there was more questions about 209 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 4: her medical records, which was shown on the screen, and 210 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 4: she was speaking the witness box about how she was 211 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 4: feeling at that time, and she explained that she was 212 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: really worried that she could have cancer, that family members 213 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 4: had cancer. There was also discussions over whether or not 214 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 4: it could be ams or other sorts. 215 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 5: Of things like that. So that was her headspace at 216 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 5: the time. 217 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it will take you to a little bit of 218 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: this evidence now, inn Colin Mandy is referring to some 219 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 2: notes that he says the jury has heard before from 220 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: a doctor, doctor Cassie, who was referred to a number 221 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: of times in Aaron Patterson's evidence and has been referred 222 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: to previously in the trial. 223 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 3: What was what were your symptoms? What was going on? 224 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 6: I'd been having a few months by then, a multitude 225 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 6: of symptoms. I felt very fatigued. I had ongoing abdominal pain, 226 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 6: I had chronic headaches, I put on a lot of 227 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 6: weight in quite a short period of time, and had 228 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 6: like my feet and my hands seemed to retain a 229 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 6: lot of fluid. And what set me over the edge 230 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 6: to actually go to the doctor was my wedding ring 231 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 6: suddenly wouldn't fit, and so I took them to the 232 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 6: local jeweler to be resized. Only a few weeks later, 233 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 6: when I picked them up, like they like, my hands 234 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 6: had outgrown them again. And so this was like a 235 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 6: rapid thing that caused me concern. 236 00:10:54,880 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 3: Now the note indicates this erin Warriors ovarian cancer has 237 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 3: been googling her symptoms. That's right, Yeah, is that what 238 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 3: you had been doing? 239 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 6: I had, Yeah, I consulted doctor Google. 240 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 3: Were there any other reasons, apart from your own symptoms 241 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 3: why you thought you might have avarian cancer? 242 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, there were a few. I had a family history 243 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 6: of it on both sides of my parents. I'd had 244 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 6: an ovaria insist myself in about two thousand and two, 245 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 6: and my daughter had an avarian mass when she was 246 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 6: a baby. 247 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 3: And how was your daughter's averian mass identified? 248 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 6: So right from when she was born, I thought there 249 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 6: was something wrong. She cried a lot, but not normal crying. 250 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 6: I'd already had one baby by then, and I knew 251 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 6: what to expect. She cried for a lot, for long 252 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 6: durations that I thought demonstrated pain. I took her to 253 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 6: a lot of doctors and even the hospital, and what 254 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 6: they communicated to me was that I was an over 255 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 6: anxious mother that should relax, and she's just a normal baby. 256 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 6: How old was she so all through that period she was. 257 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 6: The mass was diagnosed in August, so she was eight 258 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 6: months old by the time it was actually. 259 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 3: Diagnosed, diagnosed by a doctor. 260 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right. But I discovered the mass myself. So 261 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 6: I had formed a habit of giving her a massage 262 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 6: on her belly after a shower. It seemed to calm 263 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 6: her down. And when I did it that day, I 264 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 6: could feel something and so I said to someone, we've 265 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 6: got to take it to the hospital, and that's what 266 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 6: we did, and they still dismissed me. Even then. They 267 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 6: said that they thought she just had a very full 268 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 6: bladder and we should wait until she voided her bladder 269 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 6: and it was still there. 270 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 3: So, in terms of that experience with her in hospital, 271 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 3: how did that make you feel about hospitals thereafter? 272 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 6: It considerably damaged my faith in the health system. I 273 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 6: didn't love hospitals before, like who does, but I didn't 274 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 6: trust that these people knew what they were doing. I 275 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 6: was just in a heightened state of anxiety. Ever after, 276 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 6: it was hard enough to get her in the first place. 277 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 6: I didn't want to lose her now. 278 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 2: Her barrister, Colin Mandy, took Aaron Patterson through a number 279 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 2: of other elements as you mentioned MS, also lupus and 280 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: other autoimmune disease was mentioned whether she maybe had concerns 281 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: about her brain and her heart at different points in time, 282 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 2: and Aaron Patterson said that she did. She noted in 283 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 2: her evidence that she was quite anxious about her health, 284 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: and she said that she'd lost faith in the healthcare 285 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: system because of this anecdote the listeners have just heard 286 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: regarding her daughter's health early in her life. And she 287 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 2: also spoke about some operations her son had needed to 288 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: undergo for issues with his knees, and she felt that 289 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: she hadn't been listened to by doctors there as well. 290 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: She ultimately said in her evidence that she'd been really 291 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: self diagnosing and that she had been using doctor Google 292 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 2: in her own words, and she said that she felt 293 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 2: she actually had wasted medical professionals time. 294 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 4: That's when the conversation between the two then changed to 295 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 4: what was going on with the copair granting, the child 296 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 4: support payments, their arrangements and alike. This was late twenty 297 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 4: twenty two, around December twenty twenty two, when she was 298 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 4: having these conversations with Don and Gail and Simon about 299 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 4: what was going on with the kids and paying of 300 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 4: school fees and things like that, and she was telling 301 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 4: the jury that she'd grown quite frustrated with the situation. 302 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 5: At that point. 303 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 4: She was feeling angry and unheard, and she turned to 304 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 4: her Facebook friends. In this Facebook chat with herd a 305 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 4: little bit about she felt that those women were her 306 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 4: cheer squad, and it was in that group that she 307 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 4: explained that they talked about religion, life, children and the 308 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 4: things they cooked and news events. But when she was 309 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 4: feeling this frustration, she turned to them and she sent 310 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 4: them a few messages about the family. And these were 311 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 4: messages she said in the witness box today that she 312 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 4: deeply regretted that there are ones that she was quite 313 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 4: emotional about when they were being read out. She had 314 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 4: a lot of regret, she was saying, and felt really 315 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 4: ashamed that the family had to listen to those as 316 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 4: they were read out in court. 317 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and as the listeners will have heard us talk 318 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: about many times. These messages are up on the screen 319 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 2: for the jury to read, and it's on their iPads 320 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 2: as well, and as part of it, Colin Man DSc as. 321 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: Different barristers often have have read out different parts of 322 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: what's being shown on the screen, and Aaron Patterson was 323 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: certainly seemed quite emotional during this time. 324 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: She was struggling to get some. 325 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: Of her words out, particularly when she was asked about 326 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 2: this message which will go to in a moment, But 327 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 2: she was really talking about that she wanted Don and 328 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 2: Gail Patterson to be adjudicating in the things that were 329 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 2: going on between her and Simon at that time. But 330 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 2: as you'll hear, she now feels she said to the 331 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 2: jury that that really wasn't what she should have been 332 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: asking at the time. He's a little bit of the 333 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 2: evidence as it was presented to the court. 334 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: It's no one's real voice. 335 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 3: Did you communicate with each other about personal things? 336 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 6: Yes? 337 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 3: And was there something that you did or everyone did? 338 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: We all did, and that is personal things about your relationships. 339 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 6: Correct. It became a safe vent in space for all 340 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 6: of us. 341 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 3: And how did it feel when you were venting in 342 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 3: that space? 343 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 6: I felt heard and validated and understood. 344 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 3: Because when you were saying things like this, this family, 345 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 3: I swear to God, what kind of responses, were you 346 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 3: getting well? 347 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 6: I mean, and even if you include the sentence beforehand 348 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 6: about the emojis and about the praying. I knew that 349 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 6: the women would probably support me being annoyed about those things, 350 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 6: and so I said to them, knowing that they would 351 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 6: latch on and you know, like become like a cheer 352 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 6: squad for your problem, if that makes sense. 353 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 3: Yes. And in terms of the communication on this online 354 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 3: friends chat, did you regard it as private? Yeah? 355 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 6: It did. Yeah, it was private. 356 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 3: Looking at those words now, this family, I swear to God, 357 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: how do you feel about it? 358 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 6: I wish i'd never said it. I feel very I 359 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 6: feel ashamed for saying it, and I wish the family 360 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 6: didn't have to hear that I said it. They didn't 361 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 6: deserve it. 362 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: We'll take a break and when we return, we'll come 363 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 2: back with Aaron Patterson's evidence. When she was being asked 364 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: about her interest in mushrooms, now, Aaron Patterson, as again 365 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 2: part of these Facebook messages, was asked about whether she 366 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 2: sort of told her Facebook friends and told that through 367 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 2: her barrister that the courts heard evidence from some of 368 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 2: these Facebook friends that she had a real love of mushrooms, 369 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 2: and she agreed. 370 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: That yes, she did. 371 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 2: She thought that these were really healthy, and she said 372 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 2: that they were just really tasty. 373 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 4: It was something that she really enjoyed eating. It was 374 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 4: an answer that she gave again and again over a 375 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 4: certain window of this questioning. And the mother of two 376 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 4: told the jury that she really developed this interest in 377 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 4: mushrooms and foraging also of mushrooms Penny during the COVID pandemic, 378 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 4: and that was around twenty twenty for those who may 379 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 4: not remember, but it was the March or April of 380 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 4: twenty twenty, and she was remembering. 381 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 5: That she would go on walks with her kids. 382 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 4: She want to take the kids off the screens and 383 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 4: get them out of the house, and they would go 384 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 4: for a walk to the nearby coral Borough Potanical Gardens, 385 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 4: and that's where she said she first started to see 386 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 4: mushrooms or get a bit of an interesting in them, 387 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 4: notice them, and then that spread over the following couple 388 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 4: of years to looking for them at a nearby rail 389 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 4: trail and also in her own backyard. There were places 390 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 4: that she remembered picking them. 391 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, And throughout this evidence, the listeners will hear when 392 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson is referring to different properties. There's two properties 393 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 2: being referred to, one called Shelcott Road and one Gibson 394 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: Street in Lee and Gatha. Now, she spoke about this 395 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 2: love of mushrooms, of the taste of them, of putting 396 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 2: them in food, and she was also asked about shopping 397 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,959 Speaker 2: for them, you know, at Grosses on trips to Melbourne, 398 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: and she said she pretty much every school holidays would 399 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 2: take her kids on a trip to Melbourne and that's 400 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: often when she'd go shopping and buy some of these 401 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 2: different types of mushrooms. And she listed off lots of 402 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 2: different varieties like puccini, shaitaki. 403 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: And will take you. 404 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: To a little bit of the evidence where Aaron Patterson 405 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 2: was being asked, particularly about this love of mushrooms and 406 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 2: about some of the different types of mushrooms. 407 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: The jury has been. 408 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 2: Shown in the evidence. This is some more of Colin 409 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 2: Mandy and Aaron Patterson. It's not their real voices. 410 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 3: We've seen some images of the kinds of mushrooms that 411 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 3: are sold in shops like that. Yeah, did you buy 412 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 3: those kinds of mushrooms? 413 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 6: Yeah? I did, not those black ones. I wouldn't have 414 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 6: bought ones like them, but other ones. 415 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 3: Yes, And how would you use them. 416 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 6: I'd use them in curries or pasta dishes or soup, spaghetti. 417 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 3: And what did you like about the more exotic mushrooms. 418 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 6: It just tastes more interesting, there's more flavor. 419 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 3: You've talked about COVID and noticing wild mushrooms. 420 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 6: Yeah. 421 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 4: She also shared a memory Penny of watching her dog 422 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 4: eat some mushrooms in her backyard and it was at 423 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 4: that point she said she wanted to try and figure 424 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 4: out what they were, to see if there was a 425 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 4: problem or there could be a problem for her dog. 426 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 4: And she explained that's when she started researching a little bit. 427 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 4: She joined some mushroom Facebook groups. She said, there's Facebook 428 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 4: groups for everything out there, but it was a couple 429 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 4: of mushroom Facebook groups she said had a lot of posts. 430 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 4: She spent a bit of time scrawling through them, and 431 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 4: as her foraging continued to evolve, she recalled picking other 432 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 4: different types of mushrooms and she was able to name 433 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 4: them a honey mushroom, a. 434 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: Slippery jack mushroom, and she said that they were the 435 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 2: ones that she'd actually picked in Carra and Burrough Botanical Gardens. 436 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 2: At one point that she noted that there was often 437 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 2: some really interesting. 438 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: Type of mushrooms. She described them there and. 439 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: She said when she had particularly picked those that she 440 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: found them, that they tasted really good. And going back 441 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 2: to when she sort of was concerned about her dog 442 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: maybe eating some mushrooms, this was on this Shelcott Road property. 443 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 2: And she went on to tell the jury and be 444 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 2: asked a little bit about sort of approaching that situation 445 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 2: and doing all this identifying with the Facebook groups and 446 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 2: through the evidence with her barrister, she was taken through 447 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 2: when she first ate wild mushrooms, and she sort of 448 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 2: gave through her evidence that it was while they were 449 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 2: at this property, after she'd been on the Facebook group. 450 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 2: She said she may have even been posting on them, 451 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: and that she felt that she kind of could idea 452 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 2: to fire the particular mushroom, which was quite confident in that, yeah, 453 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 2: that were around her home, and that then she moved 454 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 2: to actually eating some of them. Let's hear a little 455 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 2: bit more of the evidence between Aaron Patterson and Colin 456 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 2: man dysc as it was heard by the jury. 457 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: It's voiced by actors. 458 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 3: In terms of the ones that you found growing in 459 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 3: Shelcott Road, did you identify them? 460 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 6: I identified the ones that were growing in the paddocks 461 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 6: where I had the animals, yet to a degree I 462 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 6: was confident of. 463 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, And what did you think they were? 464 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 6: There were field mushrooms and horse mushrooms in those paddocks. 465 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 3: And did you consume them? 466 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, eventually I did. 467 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 3: Yes. When you say eventually, what was the process? 468 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 6: I mean it was a process over several months in 469 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 6: the lead up to it. But you know, when I 470 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 6: got to a point where I was confident about what 471 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 6: I thought they were, I cut a bit off one 472 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 6: of the mushrooms, fried it up with some butter and 473 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 6: ate it and then saw what happened. 474 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 3: Then what happened? 475 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 6: They tasted good and I didn't get. 476 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 3: And thereafter what did you do with the mushrooms that 477 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 3: you found on that property? 478 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 6: So? If I saw mushrooms the same mushrooms growing, I 479 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 6: would usually pick them and eat them and sometimes put 480 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 6: them in meals. 481 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 3: We all ate what months did they grow in? 482 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 6: So are there were lots of them in autumn, tapering 483 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 6: off a little bit to winter. Yeah. 484 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 3: How big was the property at Shelcott Road. I'm not 485 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 3: sure if you've said that already. 486 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 6: It was three acres. It was a house block with gardens, 487 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 6: and two paddocks for animals. 488 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 3: You said you put them in meals? We all ate. 489 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 3: Does that mean you and the children? 490 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 6: Yeah? 491 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: How did you put them in the children's meals? What 492 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 3: did you do? 493 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 6: I chopped them up very very small so they couldn't 494 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 6: pick them out. 495 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 4: Now. 496 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson also was taken in her evidence to buying 497 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 2: a dehydrator, and she told the court yes, she had 498 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: bought a dehydrator in the April of twenty twenty three, 499 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 2: and that she'd shared that news with her friends on Facebook. 500 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: She was also taken to a number. 501 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 2: Of photos from this particular Facebook chat and some messages 502 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 2: about drying mushrooms at that time. 503 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 6: Yeah. 504 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 4: She said that it was yeah, April twenty twenty three 505 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 4: that she decided to buy this dehydrator, and the reasons 506 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 4: were she wanted to preserve both wild and store bought mushrooms, 507 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 4: as well as potentially other foods. She was explaining to 508 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 4: the jury that sometimes mushrooms were all always available at 509 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 4: the supermarket at the stores. 510 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 2: She also noted that sometimes she wanted to preserve these 511 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 2: wild mushrooms too, and she talked about the fact that 512 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 2: she felt she usually would see them around the autumn 513 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: of years, but that she wanted to preserve some of 514 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 2: those mushrooms for her cooking as well. 515 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 4: It was at that point Penny she was asked questions 516 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 4: about whether or not she may have picked any mushrooms 517 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 4: or if she had picked any mushrooms in or around 518 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 4: any oak trees. Aaron Patterson at this point, was sitting 519 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 4: facing the jury. Her defense barrister again was on her 520 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 4: right asking questions. He was on his feet, and she 521 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 4: was sitting on an office chair, and that's when she 522 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 4: sort of sat and she looked up to the side 523 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 4: as if she was thinking, and explained that while she 524 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 4: was at the caran Borough Botanical Gardens, she did think 525 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 4: that perhaps she would have picked some mushrooms near an 526 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 4: oak tree, but didn't believe it was under an oak tree. Yeah. 527 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 2: And she noted through this part of her evidence that 528 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 2: when she was being asked broadly about the areas that 529 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 2: she'd picked mushrooms and who might have seen her between 530 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 2: this sort of twenty twenty to twenty twenty three period, 531 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 2: she said that her children, especially during the sort of 532 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 2: COVID lockdown periods, were with her on these walks and 533 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 2: that they may have perhaps even pointed out some mushrooms 534 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 2: that she picked, but she did say that she certainly 535 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 2: remembered that maybe there were these oak trees at the gardens, 536 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 2: but that she didn't think she'd picked anything from directly 537 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 2: under them. She was asked as part of this evidence, 538 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 2: and we know the listeners are probably aware by now 539 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 2: as we mention it quite a bit that it does 540 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 2: jump around quite a bit the evidence, and she was 541 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 2: also asked sort of around this time the mushrooms. 542 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: For the meal that she cooked. 543 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 2: She acknowledged that yes, she believed that that meal did 544 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 2: contain death cap mushrooms, but when asked where the mushrooms 545 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 2: for that meal had come from, she said the vast 546 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 2: majority had come from the Woolworth the Lee and Gatha woollies, 547 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,719 Speaker 2: she said, and from a grocer, a Melbourne grocer. And 548 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: her barrister then took her through a bit more information 549 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 2: regarding these particular mushrooms from the grocer, and she noted 550 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: that they were very pungent in smell. She remembered she 551 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 2: thought she'd got them maybe in the April school holidays, 552 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 2: that they'd visited their home in Mount Waverley, and that 553 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 2: when she had gone to buy them, she couldn't exactly 554 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 2: remember where or when she got them, but she could 555 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 2: remember that she'd got them to make a particular dish. 556 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: Smell was really strong, so she had. 557 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 2: Put them in a container and popped them away, But 558 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: then she later bought that container with her back to 559 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 2: her home in land Gatha. 560 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is a little bit more about what she 561 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 4: had to say while she was in the witness box. 562 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 3: You've said that you bought some mushrooms from an Asian 563 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 3: grocer in April. Yes, was that when you were staying 564 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 3: at Mount Waverley, Correct, And there's been some evidence about 565 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 3: what you did with those mushrooms. What's your memory of 566 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 3: what you did with those mushrooms? 567 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 6: So the day I remember that I was going to 568 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 6: use them the day that I bought them, but they 569 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 6: were very pungent. I didn't think that would be a 570 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 6: great smell for what I was making, so I just 571 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 6: put him a container and put them in the pantry 572 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 6: at that point, and. 573 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 3: What happens to that container in the pantry. 574 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 6: So I took the container back home to Gibson Street 575 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 6: when we went home. 576 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 3: After the April correct. And so you have mentioned putting 577 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 3: some dehydrated mushrooms in a container in the pantry. 578 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 6: Yes. 579 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 3: Was that at Gibson Street. 580 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 6: Yes? 581 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 3: And you mentioned putting the Asian grosser mushrooms in a container, yes, 582 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 3: a tupperware container, yes, which also ended up at Gibbson Street. 583 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 6: Correct. 584 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 3: Was that container from Mount Waverley in your pantry at 585 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 3: Gibson Street when you dehydrated the mushrooms in May and June? 586 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 6: Yes, it was. 587 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 3: And the mushrooms that you dehydrated, you said you put 588 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 3: them into a container. What container did you put them into? 589 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 6: Well, generally I would put them into a container that 590 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 6: I already sort of had going with the woolies mushrooms 591 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 6: and whatnot in there, so I will just dry them 592 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 6: and put them in a container. And if there was 593 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 6: no container, I'd start one, if that makes sense. 594 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 3: Do you have a memory of putting wild mushrooms that 595 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 3: you dehydrated in May or June of twenty twenty three 596 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 3: into a container which already contained other dried mushrooms. 597 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 6: Yes, I did do that. 598 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 2: Now that's all that the jury has heard from Aaron 599 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 2: Patterson so far. Will bring you more evidence when it's 600 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 2: presented to the court. Thank you for listening to this 601 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 2: episode of Say Grace, Please press the follow button in 602 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 2: your app to get our next episodes as soon as 603 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: we publish. 604 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 4: For more reporting on the case, check out the Age 605 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 4: of nine News in your browser or app store. 606 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 2: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land 607 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 2: that this podcast was recorded on and wherever you're listening 608 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 2: to it now. 609 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: Say Grace is created and hosted by me Penelope Lesh 610 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: and me erin person. 611 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 2: This podcast is produced by Genevieve Rule