1 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: The Australian Financial Review. Hello, I'm James Thompson, senior chantic 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: clear columnist at the AFR. Welcome to our weekly news 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: breakdown of all things business, finance and markets. With me today, 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: as always is my chantapleer colleague, the hot air he 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: producers will always be vital to the national interest. It's 6 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: Anthony McDonald. 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 2: How are you, Anthony, feeling some fertile topics to discuss today, James, fantastic. 8 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: Well, this week we try and make sense of a 9 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: conflict between Israel and Iran. Explain why the biggest cash 10 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: takeover in Australian history is a massive test for Jim charmers, 11 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: and we ask do our big CEOs ever miss out 12 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: on a bonus? Well, Athony, let's start there. This week 13 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: the Australian Council of Superinnuation Investors, which is sort of 14 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: like a proxy advisory firm for the supersector, put out 15 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: its annual review of CEO pay and it's safe to 16 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: say the bosses are still doing all right, with the 17 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: median pay of CEOs and the ASX one hundred sitting 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: at four point one five million, which I think is 19 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: just above your wage, Anthony. But there's a sliver of 20 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: solace for the ordinary Australian. That median CEO pay is 21 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: now fifty five times the earnings of an average worker, 22 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: which is down from seventy one times in twenty fourteen, 23 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: and it's well below what's happening in the USA, where 24 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: CEO pay is three hundred and forty eight times the 25 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: average Gianni or Gina's wage, Anthony, are there any other 26 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: trends in this CEO pay survey that you'd like to 27 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: point us to? 28 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: The Golden rules to the big bucks. James and I 29 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: made the big big bucks. It's pretty simple, isn't it. 30 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: You just have to run an ASX listed business that 31 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,919 Speaker 2: is big offshore. You can convince your board to compare 32 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: your salary to peers or competitors in the US games 33 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: you are laughing. So the top paid CEO is in order. 34 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: There are all the companies that have these big US businesses. 35 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 2: We've got Robert Thompson from News Limited. They've obviously got 36 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: dar Jones over there, the publishing assets off Sure, Lavisa's 37 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: Victor Herrero offshore expansion story, Macquary's Shamara Wick Ramayaka. You know, 38 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,679 Speaker 2: a cool thirty million bucks realized pay this financial year. 39 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 2: She's got a big global asset manager, big trading house, 40 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: you know, competes with all the banks on Wall Street. 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: You've got Goodman's Greg Goodman global logistics player, Mick Farrell 42 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: from their RESMET he's even based in the US, Mike 43 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 2: Henry from BHP and Yakov from Rio tinto big global miners. 44 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: It's pretty simple, James, isn't it. You just got to 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: have a company that competes globally where you can get 46 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: compared to CEOs in the US and you make the 47 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,399 Speaker 2: big big bucks. But I think the thing that's worth 48 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 2: looking at this year, James, is the amount of CEOs 49 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: is again bonuses. And you pointed this out to me. 50 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: Of the one hundred and forty two CEOs eligible for bonuses, 51 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: only five got a donut. Only five of one hundred 52 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: and forty two got zero. So spare thought for them, James. 53 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: They must have really done something wrong. Now, Anthony, the 54 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: first question that comes to my mind is do you 55 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: happen to know what columnists are paid in America? Because 56 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: that could help us on the second question is what 57 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: do you have to do to get no bonus? I mean, 58 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: were these really the laggards of the AX. 59 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, laggards of the AX, or the ones that they 60 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: had particularly troublesome years. I mean one that caught my 61 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: eye was then Leasa's tiny Lombardo, poor bloke. I mean 62 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: he had activists up his wazu or year as well. 63 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think you basically just have had to 64 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 2: have had a shocker or I mean, all the criteria 65 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: for their bonuses are laid out, investors can read them 66 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: in the remuneration report. It's generally around total shold or return, 67 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: you know, the earnings of the company and those sort 68 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: of things. But James, honestly, I mean, CEOs get paid 69 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: a lot compared to the ordinary person, don't they. And 70 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: I'm not sure you could ever say that one person's 71 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: worth fifty five times than another. But I mean, i'll 72 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 2: tell you why. I mean, most of the CEOs would 73 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: come across. They do bloody hard. I mean, they are 74 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: addicted to their jobs. They don't really get much time away, 75 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: and they've all done years and years of dedicated service 76 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 2: to get to where they are. But it's just astounding 77 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: how those us sort of facing companies just continue to 78 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 2: get paid so much more than the rest. 79 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, is it a surprise then that we don't see 80 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: too many CEOs make the jump from Australian running Australian 81 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: companies to US companies. I guess it's hard, probably hard 82 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: to break into that US market. There's only so many 83 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: CEO jobs, even in a big market like that. 84 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I don't think there's too many running US businesses, 85 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: although there are a few. And likewise, James, it's interesting 86 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: that you get the US CEOs that will come here 87 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: and run businesses as well. We see them pop up 88 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: from time to time, so there is a bit of 89 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 2: border jumping that goes on. But one undred percent, if 90 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: you were doing really well running in a strained business, 91 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: surely you'd be looking at what's going on in the 92 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: US and say hello, I'd like some of that. 93 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 94 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: And James, speaking of Payer, I couldn't believe my eyes 95 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: when I saw that Meta Platforms, which owns Facebook and 96 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: WhatsApp and Instagram, is offering sign on bonuses of one 97 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million dollars to AI engineers. Seriously, who 98 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 2: should earn that sort of money? 99 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: Come on, Anthony, I mean, we see soccer players and 100 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: baseball stars and basketball stars traded for that sort of 101 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: coin all the time. I mean, hey, we're always saying that, 102 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: you know, we undervalue science compared to sports. So here's 103 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: an example where we're not doing that and never runs 104 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: up in arms. It's a bit I reckon. There's a 105 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: bit of double standards here. Look, look, it's a lot 106 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: of money though, but why would you pay someone that 107 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: sort of money. The reason you pay that someone that 108 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: sort of money, if you Meta Platforms, is because you 109 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: think getting their skills on board is going to make 110 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: you an extraordinary amount of money in return. You know. 111 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: So if Meta Platforms is hiring AI engineers for one 112 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million dollars, if they're looking to spend 113 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: I think it's about one hundred billion dollars on AI 114 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: infrastructure just this year alone. I mean, the pie that 115 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: they're chasing has to be in the trillions of dollars, 116 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: doesn't it. 117 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 2: It sure does, James. But it worries me as consumers 118 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 2: of all these products, like how much are we going 119 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 2: to be paying for them? If they can afford to 120 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 2: be paying people one hundred and fifty million dollar sign 121 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 2: on bonuses, what are they going to be selling their 122 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 2: AI products for? They will be milking customers. 123 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: I think you're worried, is right. I mean, and I've 124 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: said this before, if AI used to deliver these trillion 125 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: dollar returns that everybody's betting they will, and everybody includes 126 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: everyone who owns who has a super fund account. We're 127 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: all up to the wazoo to use your phrase in 128 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: AI stock through our super So how do those trillion 129 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: dollar returns come through? They come through If the customers 130 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: of these AO giants are prepared to pay big money 131 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: to use the AI services. What are those services, Anthony? 132 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: It's imagine AI agents replacing your entire call center, or 133 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: imagine AI agents that could inside a bank process loan 134 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: documents and give loan approvals. Even now, why would the 135 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: customers of the AI giants be prepared to pay to 136 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: use these services because they know they can make more 137 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: profit in turn? How do they make more profit in 138 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: turn by reducing their biggest cost people, So, I think 139 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: you've got to connect these two things. The reason someone 140 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: is prepared to pay one hundred and fifty million dollars 141 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: sign on bonus for an AI engineer is because somewhere 142 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: down the track, they think there's a big saving going 143 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: to be had from taking out lots of people inside 144 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: of business. I mean, the only I've said this before, 145 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: the only way AI delivers returns is through unemployment. It 146 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: is an ugly, ugly, ugly truth, but there it is. 147 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: We can't sort of ignore it. Am I wrong, Anthony? 148 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: Am I getting too doomy again? 149 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: Speed thought? Isn't it to think that one person collects 150 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty million bucks and their job is 151 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: to put how many other people have a job? 152 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? 153 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 2: But I guess that's the way this is all going. 154 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Okay, Anthony. Let's move to a look frankly 155 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: equally glum first topic, and that's this week's news, which 156 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: has been dominated by the latest tragic conflict in the 157 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: Middle East between Israel and Iran, which appears to be 158 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: turning well, really increasingly nasty, particularly for the civilians who 159 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: are caught up in it, Anthony. As we record on 160 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 1: Friday morning, things are sort of on a bit of 161 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: a knife edge, with the world still waiting to see 162 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: whether Donald Trump will lead America into the conflict. Now, Anthony, 163 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: Donald Trump initially sort of distanced himself from these Israeli attacks, 164 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: but now he seems to want in on them. He's 165 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: saying we could attack anytime in the next two weeks. 166 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: What do you think has changed in the sort of 167 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: American view of this conflict? 168 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, James, big week for the world this week. I mean, 169 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: it's not a market story, it's human stories, and it 170 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: years of history, intentions boiling over. What changed this week, James, 171 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 2: was the bombing obviously intensified. It's up to seven or 172 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 2: eight days now. The israelis targeting key bits of infrastructure 173 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 2: around Iran's nuclear program and key military officials. Iran seems 174 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: to be doing what it can to stay in the 175 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: game and say it won't surrender. But what changed. The 176 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 2: US just beefing up its presence, beefing up its forces 177 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: in the region, James, Like, It's sent a third US 178 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: Navy destroyer into the eastern Mediterranean Sea. In a second 179 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: US carrier is heading over to the Arabian Seas. It's 180 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: just emerged that President Trump has sort of privately approved 181 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 2: these Israel's attack plans. It's raising the question of is 182 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 2: the US about to join or not? You know, it's 183 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 2: been a will he or won't he sort of story 184 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 2: all week, James. I mean, Trump's playing a long He 185 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: literally told reporters in the White House on Wednesday. I 186 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: may do it, I may not do it. I mean, 187 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: nobody knows what I'm going to do, right, and then 188 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 2: this morning we wake up to this whole. I might 189 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 2: do it in the next two weeks. I've got a 190 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: two weeks sort of timeframe thing, and it's pretty astonishing. 191 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 2: I'm not sure we've seen too much like this, have we, James. 192 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: No, that's right. I think what Trump is probably sensing 193 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 1: is that, you know, America and Iran have been at 194 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: loggerhead's tension over the Iranian nuclear program for a long time. 195 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: And I think Trump. Trump's good at seeing someone's weakness. 196 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: You know, he loves this negotiating master negotiator stuff, and 197 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: he can see is Iran is sort of down for 198 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: the count. Here is this the chance to finally take 199 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: that Iranian nuclear question off the table once and for all. 200 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: So I think that's where he's going. But yeah, the 201 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: whole you know, I could do anything in the next 202 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: two weeks. I mean, we know that Donald, you could 203 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: do anything at any time. We've seen that in the 204 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: last few months. So he's a master showman. 205 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 2: If nothing else, James, I wanted to bring a reader 206 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 2: question in here, and we've got a marvelous one from 207 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: Victori or Reid, who's the sister of our economics correspondent 208 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 2: Mike Read. She'd send in a question, and the hope 209 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 2: of going to the top of the family leaderboard for 210 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 2: the most impressive red child, and the fact she's made 211 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 2: it to the Chanticle podcast. I think she now is James. 212 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: Her question also gets right to the heart of the 213 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: market's response on this hijuks. 214 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 3: Oil markets have shot up off the back of the 215 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 3: Iran is Ral conflict jud to Iran's role in global 216 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 3: oil supply. If supply continues to be impeded, how can 217 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 3: we expect global markets to respond? Can other OPEC nations 218 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 3: and the US increase their supply easily? And what are 219 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 3: the flow on effects of oil price increases into other 220 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 3: markets and economies? Thanks? 221 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: Well, the first thing I've got to say is how 222 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: good would Christmas that the Reeds be. I don't know 223 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: if we'd be able to keep up with the conversation 224 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: around the table, but it's a great question, Victoria. I mean, really, 225 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: oil is at the heart of the market's response. We've 226 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 1: seen oil's been funny this year. It's gone from about 227 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: eighty bucks US a barrel in January down to fifty 228 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: five dollars US of barrel in May, which we all 229 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: saw at the petrol bowser some comparatively cheap fuel. After this, 230 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: it's shot back up to around between seventy five dollars 231 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: and eighty dollars a barrel. So these aren't crazy prices. 232 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: This isn't a massive spike. But I think the longer 233 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: this drags on, the more worried we are that we 234 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: could see the next set of actions that pushes oil 235 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: up towards US one hundred and twenty bucks a barrel. 236 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: What would need to happen, Well, it's not so much 237 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: about the oil that Iran produces. That's only about one 238 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: percent of world supply. What everybody's worried about is that 239 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: Iran might close the Strait of Formuz, which is key 240 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: waterway in the Middle East through which about twenty percent 241 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: of the world's oils flows. So you know, if we 242 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: see attacks on ships in that strait, if we see 243 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: a mining of the strait, you know c mines, if 244 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: we see general sort of blockades of straight then that 245 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: would take out a lot of oil and we could 246 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: see oil go up to one hundred and twenty bucks, 247 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: So you know, it's a possibility that would have big 248 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: flow and effects from markets. There'd be a panic on 249 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: Wall Street and probably on the AX. Those panics tend 250 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: to fade pretty quickly. Global economy is not as reliant 251 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: on oil as it was, say, back in the nineteen 252 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: seventies when we had a famous oil shock, So you know, 253 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: it's not probably not the end of the world, but 254 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: it would be a sort of nasty moment, particularly given 255 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: that markets are stretched, they're expensive, they're overcrowded at the moment, 256 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: so you know, you want to watch for that. So 257 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 1: what we've got, though, Anthony, is a whole lot of 258 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: armchair generals strategists trying to figure out how likely it 259 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: is that Iran takes that sort of action. You know, 260 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: does Iran get pushed into a corner where they feel 261 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: they need to do some real damage to the global 262 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: energy complex to get everyone's attention and calm this down. 263 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: Not sure, blocking that straight is something they hadn't tried 264 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: in fifty years, And imagine the reaction if they do 265 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: try and do that. Attacks on US ships in that area, 266 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: for example, could be the trigger that really brings the 267 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: US in to sort of wipe a run off the map. 268 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: So there's so many combinations and permutations here. But the 269 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: question is, does Iran do something to disrupt the broader 270 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: Middle East energy complex? We haven't seen it yet. I 271 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: think if we avoid that then oil and markets will 272 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: be okay. If we do see them take that step, 273 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: then we could see a sort of short term shock 274 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: to markets that would be pretty unpleasant. But Anthony, the 275 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: other thing that was happening as all this was unfolding 276 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: was the G seven in Canada. Now, Anthony Albanize he 277 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: trooped over there. He's not Australia, he's not in the 278 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: G seven. We're on the periphery. We're a friend of 279 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: the family, so to speak. And it was all set 280 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: to have this big meeting with Donald Trump. But then, 281 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: of course the Donald decided he had to leave the 282 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: G seven early before Albaneze could meet with Trump. Who's 283 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: the bigger loser here? Is Elbow upset that he's missed 284 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: the Donald? Or is the Donald upset that he's missed Elbow. 285 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 2: I doubt Trump's thought about it again, James, Yeah, it's 286 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: a blow for Anthony. Aberezi absolutely like him. Or lumping. 287 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 2: President Trump is the most powerful leader in the world. 288 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 2: He's the head of the worlds because the economy hugely important. 289 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 2: You know, Australian Anthony Albanese don't have to necessarily like 290 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 2: President Trump, don't have to like his politics, but I 291 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: think it's pretty important we get in front of him, James. 292 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: And since Trump's Trump was reinaugurated in late January, I 293 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: mean he's been met with a procession of leaders who've 294 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 2: been making their way to the White House to congratulate 295 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 2: him and ask for stuff, and that stuff's usually to 296 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: go easy on Tariff's Albaneze hasn't made the trip and 297 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: was hoping to get the job done with a meeting 298 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 2: on the sidelines of this G seven summit, Like you said, 299 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: James in Canada this week, you know they're both there 300 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: was looking all good and then Donald walked out like 301 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 2: Don Bradman, the overly nineteen forty eight James when he 302 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: needed four runs to average one hundred and he got 303 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: a duck. So Donald Trump, he was out of there, 304 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: back home to deal with the Middle East. And he's 305 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 2: he's clearly not a work from anywhere guy, Donald Trump, James, 306 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: but out top reporter in Canberra, Phil Courry. I thought 307 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 2: he's been in Canada too on the trip, so you 308 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: can imagine the disappointment if you're a reporter on that trip. 309 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: But I thought he put it nicely, James. He said, 310 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: meeting Trump has become the box that Alberanize needs to tick. 311 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 2: And you know, sure, Albanize he got to meet a 312 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 2: couple of other people while he was over there, including 313 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: your man Scott Besson, who's the Treasury Secretary. But it's 314 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: just not the same, is it. You know, you're you're 315 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: running the country, you're representing Australia. It's your job to 316 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 2: get in front of these leaders. And I think he's 317 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: just got to get it done. 318 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: There is a sort of pressing issue. That great tariff 319 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: pause ends on July eighth. 320 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: That's right, it's just around the corner. It best In 321 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: has flagged the deadline will be extended for those nations 322 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 2: currently negotiations. So Albin easy, he's got a little room 323 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 2: to move. But James, like, I'm wondering, what doesn't Alberanisi 324 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 2: just go and knock on the White House door. 325 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: Well maybe he's maybe Elbow's worried he's going to get 326 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: a President Zelenski moment, you know he's going to have JD. 327 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: Vance yelling at him. Or there was that South African 328 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: president who also got the sort of rounds of the 329 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: White House kitchen. So maybe Albo is a bit sensitive. 330 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 1: He doesn't want to be yelled at by Trump and Vance. 331 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: Either way, James, I think Albo has just got to 332 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 2: tear the band aid off and get this meeting done. 333 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, but just quickly, James. 334 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 2: While Albo was in Canada, Federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers, he 335 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 2: was in Canberra giving a big set speech on the 336 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 2: government's economic agenda. What did you take from that? 337 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: It was a love letter to the AFR. How many 338 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: times to reckon the word productivity was mentioned? How many 339 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: twenty eight? What a beautiful thoodol no I could feel. 340 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: Michael Stutchbury, our former editor in chief, great productivity campaigner, 341 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: he would have been drooling over this one. Now have 342 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: a read of the paper on Saturday. I'm sure he'll 343 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: take some issue with Charmer's approach. But look, we're gearing 344 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: up for this productivity round table which will be held 345 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: around the apparently around the cabinet table. Anthony twenty five 346 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: seats around the cabinet table. So I'm not sure you 347 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: and I will be invited, but I think we'd have 348 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: a bit to contribute. Look, i mean, the headline here 349 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: was about tax reform. Charmers has said, bring it on, 350 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: I'm ready to discuss it. He even gave a little 351 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: message to the media, gave a message to you, Anthony, 352 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: he said, don't play the rule in this tax change 353 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: and rule out that tax change. But then Charmers strangely 354 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: went and said, I'm not going to touch the gsts. 355 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 2: Only one person can play. 356 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: That game exactly what a reverse ferret. So look, I mean, 357 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: we'll see where all this goes. But you know, hey, 358 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: Cutos to Charmers, they've got a mandate. We've said what 359 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: are you going to do with this mandate? Can you 360 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: do some big picture stuff? And Chalmers is you know, 361 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: provided a speech that said, yeah, let's talk about it. 362 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: Let's let's think about some big picture stuff. So look, 363 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: I think if that discussions entered into in the right way, 364 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: maybe even in a bipartisan way, you know, let's see that. 365 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: Let's see the Libs and the Nationals throw up a 366 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: few good ideas and be prepared to have them kicked around. 367 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: As well. I don't know. Look, I'm trying to be 368 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: optimistic about this, Anthony. Let's have the discussion and let's 369 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: let's have it in a try and have it in 370 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: a normal, sensible way. 371 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 2: I reckon, Yeah, I agree, James. I mean there's always 372 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 2: cynicism around, you know, around tables and discussions and reviews 373 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 2: and talk of things like tax reform, and none of 374 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,479 Speaker 2: it matters at all until you get to the end 375 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 2: of it and decide whether you're going to do something 376 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: or not. But what else is the government supposed to do? Right, 377 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: You've got to kick off these things somehow, and I 378 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 2: think they're making the right noises, so you know, credit 379 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 2: to them, and let's hope that something useful comes out 380 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 2: of it. Yeah, well said, Let's get to our second topic, James. 381 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: And this week we got the m and A deal 382 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: of the year, a blocks bust, that thirty billion dollar 383 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: cash bit Frustralia's second biggest oil and gas company, Santos 384 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 2: Now James, having been shopped to every oil major and 385 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 2: sovereign wealth fund for years, the Emiratis took the bait, 386 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 2: turning up with bids at eight dollars and eight dollars 387 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: sixty share in March, before returning with a best and 388 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 2: final offer of eight dollars eighty nine a share at 389 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: the end of last week. James, the timing is stunning. 390 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: I mean, we've just been talking about this Middle East 391 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: conflict that could have a potentially huge impact on the 392 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 2: oil price. Santos's board has acted pretty decisively and said, yep, 393 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 2: good bid. If you can stand it up, we'll recommend 394 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 2: it to shareholders. So the bidder, which is calling itself 395 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: the XRG Consortium, but really most of the money looks 396 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 2: like it's the national oil company from the UAE, and 397 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 2: then there's private equifirm Carlo as well. It's getting an 398 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 2: exclusive look at Santos's books and if it can stand 399 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 2: the offer up, Santos is basically it's for the taking. Now, James, 400 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: were you surprised that Santosis board could act with so 401 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 2: much certainty given all the uncertainty in energy mark It's yeah, good. 402 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: Question, Anthony. I mean I think so as you said, 403 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 1: they've been shopping this business around for the best part 404 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: of you know, two or three years. They finally find 405 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: a bitter with enormously deep pockets willing to pay all 406 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: cash willing to just take the whole business in one chunk, nothing, 407 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: no funky sort of you know structuring to this deal. 408 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: I mean, surely you've got to say, yep, yes, please, 409 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: we want to put this to shareholders. This is a 410 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: deal that we think stands up. I think that's totally understandable. 411 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: How does the Middle East conflict play into that? I 412 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: think if you're on the Santos board, you'd be saying, look, 413 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: there's plenty of conflict in the Middle East already hasn't 414 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: really affected the oil price, and so they'll be you know, thinking, look, 415 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: whatever happens here is probably a short term issue, and 416 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: you know, we've got to run our business for the 417 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: long term. So I get that, but it's a really 418 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: difficult one for Santos. You know, they've tried so many things. 419 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: They've tried, looked at a merge with Woodside, the other 420 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: big oil and gas player in this country, sort of 421 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: fell over very quickly. They've had activists suggesting breakup plans 422 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: come to nothing. So when you've got one bitter, as 423 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: I say, with huge resources, ready to buy the whole 424 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: thing from you in cash, I think that's pretty hard 425 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: not to put that offer to shareholders even though there 426 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: is uncertain in the world. There's always uncertain in the world. 427 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: But Anthony, we've got a really good question from a reader, 428 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: Cheryl cart right in Victoria, and I'd like you to 429 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: like you to have a crack at answering it. She says, 430 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: why can't Santos unlock its own value? Why is it 431 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: better to have Australian resources in foreign hands, particularly the 432 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: hands of a foreign government. I think that's a really 433 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: important point Cheryl makes here. Santos basically becomes a foreign 434 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: government owned oil company if this still goes through. 435 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, absolutely, In terms of the first part of 436 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 2: the question, James, I mean, yeah, Santos could in theory 437 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 2: unlock its own value. It's one of those companies whether 438 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 2: some of the parts is worth more than the whole 439 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 2: on paper. And Santos has been talking for years about 440 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: doing stuff to unlock that value. James, asset sales, infrastructure sales, 441 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: farm downs, joint ventures, everything. It's had more reviews than 442 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 2: the Phantom of the Opera would have had over the years. 443 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: It honestly is always just flooded with bankers trying different things. 444 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,959 Speaker 2: You know, whether it's heart's been in actually doing something 445 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 2: or not. I mean, that's sort of another question. And why, James, 446 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 2: why haven't they been able to do anything? What turns 447 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 2: out that all those various assets that it's got, they've 448 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 2: worth more on paper when you look at them by themselves, 449 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: but they're actually not that valuable to other parties on 450 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 2: their own. You know, they might be a bit small 451 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 2: on their own, they might be subject to preemptive rights, 452 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: or only attractive to a small player who doesn't have 453 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: the cash flows to develop them, you know. And oil 454 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: and gas, James, it's all about scale, the big companies 455 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 2: getting bigger. Santos is a big fish here. It's relatively 456 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 2: bite size compared to the other places globally. And it's portfolio, 457 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 2: it's it's quite separated, right, you know, Like it's got 458 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 2: a big stake in an LNG plant in p and G. 459 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 2: It's got g LNG, which is l and G up 460 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 2: in Gladston, it's got other assets in Australia, the center 461 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 2: of Australia and WA. Like they're quite sort of separate now, 462 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 2: each of those things on their own. You know, sure, 463 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 2: sure they're big enough, but they're not that big, they're 464 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 2: not that not that meaningful. So that portfolio being all 465 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 2: over the place. It's those assets are too small for 466 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: a big bit of like XIG just to pick off 467 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: one or two. You know, wants it wants the whole thing. 468 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 2: So so I'd say Eryl, like Santos has been trying 469 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 2: and the method it's ended up with basically is just 470 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: trying to get a bid for the whole thing. I mean, 471 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 2: that's what they think is the cleanest. That's the value 472 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: realization strategy here. It's the one they've got from the Emiratis, 473 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 2: and the Santos board locked it in last weekend. I mean, 474 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 2: as for the second part of the question, why is 475 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 2: it better to have Australian resources in foreign hands, particularly 476 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 2: of a foreign government? I mean, Cheryl, I mean, she 477 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 2: has hit the nail on the head with this one. 478 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 2: This is the question for the takeover. I think everything's 479 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: going to live or die on this. James Hu you 480 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 2: picked it up straight away in your first Take column 481 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: on Monday morning when this came out the Foreign Investment 482 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: Review Board. It's going to come down to ERB, It's 483 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 2: going to come down to the treasurer. Countries globally, they're 484 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 2: turning inwards. Governments are getting protectionists. This is an energy company. 485 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 2: We still haven't worked out what our energy system looks 486 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 2: like for the long term, where you know, how we're 487 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 2: going to transition from the fossil fhels to the renewables. 488 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 2: What's the likelihood do you think the government says go 489 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: for it? 490 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: Ye're not great, probably, but I think there's one caveat 491 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: to that. And just to explain the process, So the 492 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: Foreign Investment Review Board, it gets first crack at reviewing 493 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: a deal like this, and then it passes a bunch 494 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: of advice onto the Treasurer Jim Charmers, who has the 495 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: final sort of veto, right, I guess you'd call it 496 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: so often the Treasurer would just say thanks, ferb, you've 497 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: done a great job. 498 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 3: Tick. 499 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: But I think this one, it really is going to 500 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: come down to It's going to be a decision Charmers 501 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: has to make. So the sort of immediate response is no, 502 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: we don't want these critical Australian assets in foreign hands, 503 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: not only for national economic reasons and national security reasons, 504 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: but for political reasons. Jim Chalmers won't expect too many 505 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: high fives for a decision like that. The one caveat 506 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: I've got, Anthony, is that we do need to get 507 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: more gas out of the ground. Yeah, like it or not, 508 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,239 Speaker 1: it's the transition fuel that is the practical answer at 509 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: the moment. So we're going to need more gas, and 510 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: there is a question as to whether who's better to 511 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: pay for the development of that new gas. Is it 512 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: Santos as a standalone listed company that has all those 513 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: challenges attracting capital, or is it Abu Dhabi Inc. With 514 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: deep pockets and lots of oil money that it's more 515 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: than happy to spend. So maybe there's a compromise where 516 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: for chalmershe does a deal where he gives approval conditional 517 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: on the new owners investing a certain amout out in 518 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: unlocking new gas supply. That might be a way he 519 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: can have his cake and eat it too. He can say, hey, look, 520 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, I know how important energy and affordability and 521 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: energy security is. I've just guaranteed that this mob is 522 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: going to spend thirty billion dollars on gas. I'm picking 523 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: a number at random, thirty billion dollars on gas investment 524 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 1: over the next thirty years. That might be one way 525 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: through it, but it's going to be a hugely tough decision. Anthony. 526 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: The other thing. I mean, as you said, this is 527 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: the third, the third set of takeover talks on Santos 528 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: in three in that you and I have covered in 529 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: the past decade. I mean, what is it about this 530 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: thing that it keeps attracting bids and what if this 531 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: one falls over? Is there a bit of last chance 532 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: saloon about this? 533 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 3: Oh? 534 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 2: There definitely is. But he's so unique, James, for top 535 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 2: fifty companies have two bids in a decode let alone 536 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 2: three rupt you now, I mean, there's something quite magical 537 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 2: about santa And like, there's a few things going on, 538 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: a big a few global forces and a few sens 539 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 2: or specific things. I mean, the first one is the 540 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 2: cost of doing business in oil and gas James. It's 541 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: through the roof. You've got a rising environmental regulations, your 542 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 2: planning approvals, construction costs, it's just way more expensive to 543 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 2: get a project up and running now than it used 544 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: to be. That's making developers and producers like Santos's lives harder. 545 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 2: How do you combat that, Well, one of the ways 546 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 2: is to chase scale. So the bigger you are, you 547 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 2: should be able to do things more efficiently. So we've 548 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 2: got a situation where the bigger just hoovering up assets 549 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: and trying to get that scale to protect their margins. 550 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 2: And then the smaller are sort of disappearing. At the 551 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 2: same time, James, you've also got less capital around it. 552 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 2: It's that green sort of discount over these companies is 553 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: really hurting. So some capital has fled the sector or 554 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: it's much more choosy. Right, So companies they now need 555 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 2: to be able to fund their own developments rather than 556 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 2: tapping equity markets to do them do it for them, 557 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 2: or getting banks or a new investor whatever. So you 558 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 2: have to be big in order to be able to 559 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 2: become the next big thing to beause you need to 560 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 2: be able to big to have the cash flows now 561 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 2: to fund the developments that will be your next project. 562 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 2: So the small end of the sector, it's just capital 563 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 2: starved and it's all about it's all about being big now, James. 564 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 2: If you want to get big and you're an acquirer, 565 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 2: there's not that many opportunities of scale around in good jurisdictions, 566 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 2: and Australia is still one of them. There's just not 567 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 2: that many assets up for the taking. And here you've 568 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 2: got Santos, You've got a board that is repeatedly engaged 569 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: with bidders, so it's clearly up up for a deal 570 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 2: with decent assets, large enough for someone like an XIG 571 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 2: to take the whole lot and to make a difference. 572 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 2: So there's few targets. Santos is one of them. And 573 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 2: then overlaying all this, James is a life on the ASEX. 574 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 2: It's not been that easy for Santos. Like I said, 575 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 2: Santos has tried a few things to create value. Most 576 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 2: recently it committed to return more cash to investors and 577 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: be disciplined about production growth. I mean, that's something that 578 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 2: I've heard fund managers talking about for fifteen years. On Santos, 579 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 2: it finally commits to do it. The shep ross go up, 580 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: not really, I mean this thing just bounces around with 581 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: the oil price steal. So I think I think there's 582 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 2: a few factors there. But Santos's board, i think it 583 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: was about eight years ago, got a bid from private 584 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 2: equity and at the time, yeah, you know, the bid 585 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 2: was good, was good enough price. But at the time 586 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 2: they had this new CEO, Kevin Gallagher, that had just 587 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 2: come in and the board kind of said, well, yeah, 588 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 2: why should we take this private equity mob's money. Let's 589 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 2: just back this Kevin Gallagher bloke to do his turnaround 590 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 2: plan and make money for shelters for us, and sure 591 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 2: enough they so they turned down the bid and they 592 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: went with Gallagher. You know, fast forward to today, James 593 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 2: and Gallagher is probably closer to the finish than the 594 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 2: end total, and they don't really have that next that 595 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 2: next executive up with the turnaround plan that could make 596 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 2: them maybe want to reject something like this on evaluation grounds. 597 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 2: So it's pretty eavenly poised. What's your gut feeling, James, 598 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 2: what's the probability of success do you think in terms 599 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 2: of this deal getting over the line? 600 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: A great question. Fifty to fifty for me, I really 601 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: don't know, but I reckon fifty to fifty, and I 602 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: reckon there's we'll still be talking about this in six months. 603 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:09,719 Speaker 1: What's your what are your numbers? 604 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: My gut pheel James says that he's easier to block 605 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: this thing than it is to accept it. I mean 606 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 2: every few years, for the past fifteen years, we've had 607 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 2: a big deal like this go to the treasurer and 608 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 2: get knocked back. We had Asex Limited, we had Grand Court, 609 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 2: we had APA Group, we had Osgrid. They're rejected for 610 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 2: various reasons, could be security, national interest, but it's basically 611 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 2: a combination of those two things. This thing, James, that 612 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 2: it's energy policy, energy security. We know that Australia's not 613 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 2: been good at that. Like you say, perhaps there's a 614 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 2: way forward for the Adnock, the UAE company to offer 615 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 2: something to the government and the government to take it. 616 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 2: And there are a few things that could offer. Like 617 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 2: you say, it could commit to invest capital needed to 618 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 2: unlock the be Toloo Basin, which could be Australia's biggest 619 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 2: ever gas reserve. Santos is a big player there. It 620 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 2: could do that. It could commit to not take so 621 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 2: much money domestic gas to feed into GLNG, which is 622 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 2: their nextplorider offshore. So there are things that it could offer. 623 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 2: But without offering those things, James, I just reckon. My 624 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: gut's telling me that this one will struggle. 625 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, lots to play out. We'll come back 626 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,479 Speaker 1: after the break and discuss a deal that is happening 627 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: and it's one of the most exciting of the year. 628 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: On the ASEX back in a second, welcome back. If 629 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: you want to know more about what we're talking about 630 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: today and a whole lot more. AFR subscribers can sign 631 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: up to the Chanticlear newsletter at join dot afi dot 632 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: com forward slash Chanticleer. Every Saturday morning, the newsletter pulls 633 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: together the best hnticle columns from the week and delivers 634 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: them straight to your inbox. Very exciting day on Tuesday, Anthony, 635 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: and not just because you're hosting the afr's first insurance forum. 636 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: It would be good, yeah, sector at the moment, but 637 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: on Tuesday we have the first big IPO in a while. Really, 638 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: Virgin Australia is going to retake to the public boards 639 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: by listing on the AX now, Anthony issue price two 640 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: dollars ninety been very well supported this thing. Is it 641 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: going to fly or stay grounded? Will the shares finish 642 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: the day higher or will they be lower on their 643 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: first day? 644 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 2: Five percent high? As my guest James, look, this is 645 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 2: a coming home party for Virgin Australia. The AX is 646 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 2: where it belongs. It's where it would have been if 647 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 2: it hadn't gone broke. That's where it used to be. 648 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think I think most investors are looking 649 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 2: forward to seeing it back. It doesn't mean everyone's going 650 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 2: to buy it. In fact, a lot more people won't 651 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 2: buy it than will. But I think we get an 652 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 2: okay reception. What about you? 653 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's going to get a good reception 654 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: that the only I think five percent up is a 655 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: good guess. It could get trumped though, if the Donald 656 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: goes into Iran oil price go through the roof. Airline 657 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: stocks are very sensitive to very sensitive to oil prices. 658 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: Maybe that's the only thing that holds it back on 659 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: day one. But the reception for this has been good 660 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: and it is great to see a big new business 661 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: joining the AX or rejoining the AX. And then on Wednesday, Anthony, 662 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: we'll get monthly inflation numbers. Inflation is looking pretty good 663 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: around the world, so hopefully the good story continues. 664 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, absolutely, well. 665 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: We loved answering your questions during the episode today. If 666 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: you've got a question you want to ask us, email 667 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: us at Chanticleer at afar dot com and you can 668 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,720 Speaker 1: also send us a question in audio form. Just record 669 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: a voice memo on your phone, include your name and 670 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: where you're from, and email it to us. And of 671 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: course the widget on the on the Chanticleer articles at 672 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: afar dot com is always there as well. And I 673 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: must say, Anthony, you don't need to be a family 674 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,280 Speaker 1: member of one of our journalists to get your question 675 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: on you. 676 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 677 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: All right, Well, it's been an the big week. We'll 678 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: see where Virgin goes next week. We'll see where where 679 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 1: the Iran Israel conflict goes next week, and we'll see 680 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: how markets do. It's a nervous time out there, I reckon, Anthony. 681 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you, James. Like you said, valuations 682 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 2: are still high. Everyone's sort of holding on, just hoping 683 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 2: that nothing too too bad from the market's perspective sort 684 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 2: of spills over. Yeah. 685 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's going to be another big week. We'll see 686 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: you next week. Thanks for listening. If you like the 687 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 1: podcast and you want to hear more, consider sharing or 688 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: giving the podcast a review, as it helps other listeners 689 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: find us, and don't forget to follow wherever you get 690 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: your podcasts. At The Financial Review, we investigate the big 691 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: stories about markets, business and power. For more, go to 692 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: afar dot com and you could subscribe to The Financial Review. 693 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: The daily Habit of successful People at afar dot com 694 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 1: slash subscribe Chanticle was hosted by me James Thompson and 695 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: Anthony McDonald, and it was produced by Alex Gau assistance 696 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: from Mandy corn. A theme is by Alex Gou. Head 697 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: of Premium content is Fiona Baffinia The Australian Financial Review