1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,160 S1: A scream in the night. Glass smashing and dogs barking. 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,200 S1: These were the first signs that something terrible had happened 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,279 S1: in a suburban Sydney street. Since then, police revealed this 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,280 S1: was a highly unusual case of mistaken identity that resulted 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,000 S1: in the kidnapping of an innocent 85 year old grandfather. 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,280 S1: And on Tuesday morning, the worst fears of one Sydney 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,040 S1: family may have been realised, with police announcing they believe 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,120 S1: they have found the body of the widow two weeks 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,000 S1: after he was taken. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,040 S1: listening to Morning Edition from The Age and the Sydney 11 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,560 S1: Morning Herald. Today, crime reporter Riley Walter on a case 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:52,000 S1: that has gripped Sydney. So, Riley, can you just take 13 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,080 S1: us back to the beginning? When did reports first surfaced 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,240 S1: that this Sydney grandfather had been kidnapped? And what did 15 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,710 S1: we know at that point about what had happened. 16 00:01:00,910 --> 00:01:03,110 S2: So the first we heard about this was on the 17 00:01:03,110 --> 00:01:06,830 S2: morning of February 14th. So New South Wales Police made 18 00:01:06,830 --> 00:01:10,789 S2: a public appeal for the return of Chris Bazarian. 19 00:01:11,709 --> 00:01:13,750 S3: An elderly man has been kidnapped from his home in 20 00:01:13,750 --> 00:01:16,550 S3: North Ryde in an early morning gang raid, which police 21 00:01:16,550 --> 00:01:18,590 S3: believe is a terrible mistake. 22 00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:21,950 S4: Detectives are appealing for any information with a message for 23 00:01:21,950 --> 00:01:24,830 S4: his kidnappers that they have the wrong person. 24 00:01:24,950 --> 00:01:27,550 S3: They're convinced the suspect's got the wrong man, and right now, 25 00:01:27,550 --> 00:01:30,910 S3: the 85 year old is being held hostage for no reason. 26 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:33,789 S2: They addressed the kidnappers directly, and they said, you've got 27 00:01:33,790 --> 00:01:36,350 S2: the wrong guy. This is not the man that you 28 00:01:36,350 --> 00:01:40,230 S2: intended to kidnap. He's not the person you were going for. 29 00:01:40,230 --> 00:01:42,470 S2: He's not linked to the people that you were targeting. 30 00:01:43,190 --> 00:01:45,870 S2: Please bring him home. Please drop him somewhere that we 31 00:01:46,030 --> 00:01:47,030 S2: can access him. 32 00:01:47,190 --> 00:01:50,910 S5: You have the wrong person. Please release Mr. Bazarian. Take 33 00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:53,390 S5: him to a hospital. Take him to somewhere that's safe, 34 00:01:53,630 --> 00:01:54,830 S5: and we'll do the rest. 35 00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:57,430 S2: And then it sort of spiralled from there. By that point, 36 00:01:57,430 --> 00:02:02,150 S2: it had been over 24 hours since Chris Bacterium was taken. 37 00:02:02,590 --> 00:02:04,830 S2: And then it sort of started to unfold over the weekend, 38 00:02:04,830 --> 00:02:07,150 S2: just how serious the situation was. 39 00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:10,190 S1: And what were the first facts that came out? Who 40 00:02:10,190 --> 00:02:14,030 S1: is Chris and how and when and from where was 41 00:02:14,030 --> 00:02:14,829 S1: he taken? 42 00:02:15,190 --> 00:02:19,669 S2: So Chris Bacterium is an 85 year old grandfather. He's 43 00:02:19,669 --> 00:02:24,389 S2: a widower. He lives alone in his North Ryde home. 44 00:02:25,110 --> 00:02:27,270 S2: He was taken from that property. He was actually in 45 00:02:27,270 --> 00:02:31,810 S2: his bedroom at about 5 a.m. on Friday the 13th 46 00:02:31,810 --> 00:02:35,990 S2: of February. So at least two masked men walk into 47 00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:39,630 S2: his property. It's unclear how they get access to the property, 48 00:02:39,630 --> 00:02:42,150 S2: whether the door was unlocked, but they enter his property 49 00:02:42,150 --> 00:02:45,510 S2: and they're caught on camera doing that, and they take 50 00:02:45,510 --> 00:02:49,950 S2: Chris bags from his bedroom. They then bundle him into 51 00:02:49,990 --> 00:02:53,710 S2: an SUV that's waiting outside of the property and whisk 52 00:02:53,710 --> 00:02:57,459 S2: him away to. We're not sure exactly where. at this 53 00:02:57,460 --> 00:02:59,580 S2: point they go. Immediately after that. 54 00:02:59,900 --> 00:03:03,020 S6: I just heard glass smashing and dogs barking. The screaming 55 00:03:03,020 --> 00:03:05,180 S6: just kept going and then it was muffled. So I 56 00:03:05,180 --> 00:03:08,580 S6: ended up looking outside and all I saw was, um, 57 00:03:08,980 --> 00:03:11,220 S6: just a guy coming, hopping into his car and just 58 00:03:11,220 --> 00:03:11,940 S6: fleeing off. 59 00:03:12,100 --> 00:03:15,060 S2: This is completely out of the ordinary. I mean, Chris 60 00:03:15,740 --> 00:03:19,220 S2: has no links to organized crime, nor does anyone in 61 00:03:19,220 --> 00:03:23,300 S2: his family. Uh, you know, typically people in this situation 62 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:25,700 S2: when they're being interviewed afterwards would say that this sort 63 00:03:25,700 --> 00:03:27,780 S2: of thing usually never happens on this street. It's such 64 00:03:27,780 --> 00:03:30,260 S2: a quiet street. But that is absolutely the case here. 65 00:03:30,340 --> 00:03:34,780 S2: I mean, there is nothing like this that has happened before. 66 00:03:34,980 --> 00:03:37,740 S2: From what? Witnesses who were there at the time say 67 00:03:37,780 --> 00:03:41,020 S2: it sounds like it was quite a violent struggle before. 68 00:03:41,260 --> 00:03:42,980 S2: Before Chris was actually taken away. 69 00:03:43,780 --> 00:03:47,619 S1: And so when did police first understand or believe that 70 00:03:47,620 --> 00:03:50,420 S1: kidnappers had absolutely taken the wrong person? Like what led 71 00:03:50,460 --> 00:03:52,740 S1: them to to think that in the first place? 72 00:03:53,540 --> 00:03:57,700 S2: So over the course of Friday, February 13th. After Chris 73 00:03:57,700 --> 00:04:02,340 S2: Bags Arians taken, detectives fairly quickly begin to form a 74 00:04:02,340 --> 00:04:06,940 S2: picture that this is the wrong person. Now, they haven't 75 00:04:06,940 --> 00:04:11,060 S2: publicly talked about exactly what the motivations for the targeting were, 76 00:04:11,060 --> 00:04:14,500 S2: but we know that the person who was being targeted 77 00:04:14,540 --> 00:04:18,260 S2: lived very nearby to Chris Bags Aryan. So it becomes 78 00:04:18,260 --> 00:04:21,779 S2: very clear to them very quickly that the kidnappers. However, 79 00:04:21,779 --> 00:04:24,460 S2: they've managed to do this, have got the wrong house 80 00:04:24,460 --> 00:04:26,100 S2: and they've certainly got the wrong guy. 81 00:04:26,580 --> 00:04:29,100 S1: Okay, now we'll get into who the alleged target was 82 00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:31,380 S1: in just a moment. But first of all, you've been 83 00:04:31,380 --> 00:04:34,020 S1: reporting on crime for years. How rare is it, in 84 00:04:34,020 --> 00:04:37,580 S1: your opinion, in a kidnapping case for kidnappers to mistakenly 85 00:04:37,580 --> 00:04:40,420 S1: take the wrong person? Like, have you ever reported on 86 00:04:40,420 --> 00:04:41,380 S1: a case like this? 87 00:04:42,140 --> 00:04:46,980 S2: So mistaken identity is becoming increasingly and and probably quite 88 00:04:46,980 --> 00:04:51,020 S2: concerningly common in the underworld. Over the past year, even 89 00:04:51,020 --> 00:04:54,810 S2: we've seen, you know, a couple of examples of mistaken 90 00:04:54,810 --> 00:04:58,570 S2: identity shootings. There was a young plumber named John Versace, 91 00:04:58,610 --> 00:05:01,530 S2: who in May last year was shot outside his family 92 00:05:01,529 --> 00:05:04,730 S2: home in what police have always treated as a case 93 00:05:04,730 --> 00:05:09,810 S2: of mistaken identity. It's becoming increasingly common for criminals to 94 00:05:10,089 --> 00:05:14,010 S2: get the wrong house or the wrong target, but it's very, 95 00:05:14,010 --> 00:05:17,690 S2: very rare that they would actually kidnap and hold for 96 00:05:17,770 --> 00:05:22,810 S2: several days the wrong person altogether. It's something that police 97 00:05:22,810 --> 00:05:27,370 S2: are constantly astounded by, that these criminals could get it 98 00:05:27,370 --> 00:05:28,690 S2: so badly wrong. 99 00:05:29,290 --> 00:05:32,010 S1: I mean it honestly, it really does beggar belief. So 100 00:05:32,010 --> 00:05:34,850 S1: take us through, I guess what happens next. So this 101 00:05:34,850 --> 00:05:37,969 S1: poor 85 year old man, he's kidnapped at 5 a.m. 102 00:05:37,970 --> 00:05:42,050 S1: from his house in suburban Sydney, and then three days later, 103 00:05:42,170 --> 00:05:45,650 S1: you reported on distressing images of his injuries that were 104 00:05:45,650 --> 00:05:49,250 S1: circulating within Sydney's underworld. So what sort of images came 105 00:05:49,250 --> 00:05:52,210 S1: out and how did you gain access to this sort 106 00:05:52,210 --> 00:05:53,810 S1: of underworld network. 107 00:05:54,890 --> 00:05:59,050 S2: So fairly soon after, police make that first public appeal. 108 00:05:59,089 --> 00:06:03,730 S2: On the Saturday, to have Chris back in returned, video 109 00:06:03,730 --> 00:06:09,970 S2: and images start circling around Sydney's underworld. Now the the 110 00:06:09,970 --> 00:06:13,330 S2: video and the images are so graphic that the Herald 111 00:06:13,370 --> 00:06:17,450 S2: hasn't published them, nor have we disclosed the nature of 112 00:06:17,450 --> 00:06:22,930 S2: them because they are extremely distressing. But basically they show 113 00:06:23,210 --> 00:06:26,969 S2: Chris Bagdasarian in a pretty poor state. I mean, he's 114 00:06:26,970 --> 00:06:30,570 S2: he's severely injured. He has clearly had a rough time 115 00:06:30,570 --> 00:06:34,130 S2: of it. Um, to say the least. He's beaten and bruised. 116 00:06:35,290 --> 00:06:39,049 S2: And this is when police become aware of this. It's 117 00:06:39,050 --> 00:06:43,010 S2: clear that this is a very serious situation. They're sort 118 00:06:43,010 --> 00:06:46,330 S2: of circulating by the Saturday night, and we kind of 119 00:06:46,370 --> 00:06:49,810 S2: become aware of them sort of early on Sunday morning, 120 00:06:49,850 --> 00:06:55,120 S2: as it looks like the situation's becoming more serious. It 121 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,680 S2: took a little while for police to sort of establish 122 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,240 S2: the legitimacy of the images, but once they were comfortable 123 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,400 S2: that there was in fact Chris Vaccari in in the 124 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,839 S2: video and that those images were legitimate, it really upped 125 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,120 S2: the stakes of of the search for Chris. By that point, 126 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,040 S2: it had been sort of 3 or 4 days since 127 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,440 S2: he'd been taken from his home, and it sort of 128 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,960 S2: really escalated the concerns they already had. 129 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,440 S1: Okay. And then we know that police at one point, 130 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,680 S1: they searched what they called a makeshift stronghold, where they 131 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,000 S1: believed that Mr. Baghdasaryan had been held for some time. 132 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,200 S1: So tell us, I guess at this point, what do 133 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,840 S1: police believe or know about who these alleged kidnappers are 134 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,119 S1: and what was going on in this stronghold? 135 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,280 S2: So over the course of the week after Chris Baghdasaryan 136 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,480 S2: was taken, there are a few things that happen on 137 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:52,600 S2: February 13th. There's a Toyota Corolla that's reported stolen from Victoria. 138 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,600 S2: That forms an important part of the police investigation into 139 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,040 S2: trying to find Chris Bagherian, because that same Corolla, which 140 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:06,600 S2: was using cloned Victorian plates, was seen at a place 141 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:11,560 S2: called Glenorie in Sydney's north west on the Saturday, February 14th. 142 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,360 S2: Shortly after it's seen there around 9 p.m.. It's dumped 143 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,960 S2: in a street in Sydney's west where the drivers of 144 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,280 S2: the car try to set it alight. They're unsuccessful in 145 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,000 S2: that attempt, so it stays there for a couple of 146 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,480 S2: days without police or anyone knowing that it's there. And 147 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,800 S2: then on February 16th, it's successfully set alight. What the 148 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,720 S2: kidnappers don't do is destroy the car completely, so it 149 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,280 S2: leaves behind a mountain of evidence for police, who fairly 150 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:47,559 S2: quickly form links between the car and the kidnapping. They 151 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,070 S2: forensically test items found in the car, which, combined with 152 00:08:51,070 --> 00:08:53,310 S2: other intelligence they've managed to glean over the course of 153 00:08:53,309 --> 00:08:57,470 S2: their investigation, lead them to a property that they described 154 00:08:57,470 --> 00:09:02,150 S2: as a makeshift stronghold at Jewel in Sydney's north west. 155 00:09:02,470 --> 00:09:05,350 S2: Now it's a semi-rural property. It's a home. It's been 156 00:09:05,390 --> 00:09:09,070 S2: abandoned for several years. It's derelict. No one lives there. 157 00:09:09,790 --> 00:09:12,949 S2: It's unclear how the kidnappers came to access the property, 158 00:09:13,390 --> 00:09:16,510 S2: but what police were able to establish when they searched 159 00:09:16,510 --> 00:09:21,470 S2: that property several days after Chris Baghdasaryan is taken, is 160 00:09:21,470 --> 00:09:23,829 S2: that he was held there for what they say was 161 00:09:23,830 --> 00:09:28,830 S2: some time. They found evidence inside that property that not 162 00:09:28,830 --> 00:09:32,750 S2: only matches what was found in that burnt out Toyota Corolla, 163 00:09:33,150 --> 00:09:36,710 S2: but also appears to match the images and the videos 164 00:09:36,710 --> 00:09:40,550 S2: of Chris bacterium that were circulated through the underworld. It 165 00:09:40,550 --> 00:09:43,870 S2: becomes a real focal point, that property, because there is, 166 00:09:44,270 --> 00:09:46,670 S2: like the car, a mountain of evidence that's left behind 167 00:09:46,670 --> 00:09:51,030 S2: that detectives Start picking through basically to try and pick 168 00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:52,630 S2: up the trail of the kidnappers. 169 00:09:59,150 --> 00:10:00,110 S1: After the break. 170 00:10:01,190 --> 00:10:04,310 S2: Senior police who have covered the worst of the worst 171 00:10:04,309 --> 00:10:09,750 S2: for for decades, will say that this really signals a 172 00:10:09,750 --> 00:10:12,069 S2: shift in the criminal underworld. 173 00:10:24,550 --> 00:10:25,790 S7: And so we're recording. 174 00:10:25,790 --> 00:10:29,790 S1: This on Tuesday, around lunchtime and the evening before this, 175 00:10:29,950 --> 00:10:32,830 S1: you had finally reported that, okay, there's now information about 176 00:10:32,830 --> 00:10:36,070 S1: who the kidnappers were actually targeting. So what do we 177 00:10:36,070 --> 00:10:36,990 S1: know about that? 178 00:10:37,510 --> 00:10:40,550 S2: So as I said, when Chris Baghdasaryan gets taken from 179 00:10:40,550 --> 00:10:43,990 S2: his home, it's quite clear quite early that he is 180 00:10:43,990 --> 00:10:48,660 S2: not who the kidnappers were trying to take. what starts 181 00:10:48,660 --> 00:10:52,540 S2: to sort of float around within police circles and, and 182 00:10:52,540 --> 00:10:56,100 S2: throughout the underworld is is word that in fact, the 183 00:10:56,100 --> 00:11:00,980 S2: target's lived very close to Mr. Bazarian and were thought 184 00:11:00,980 --> 00:11:04,740 S2: to have links to the Alameddine crime family. For listeners 185 00:11:04,740 --> 00:11:10,020 S2: who aren't in Sydney, the Alameddine crime family is alleged 186 00:11:10,020 --> 00:11:13,380 S2: to be one of the biggest controllers of Sydney's illicit 187 00:11:13,380 --> 00:11:16,660 S2: drug trade, and they've been caught up in gang war 188 00:11:16,660 --> 00:11:20,220 S2: after gang war for for several years now. But they 189 00:11:20,220 --> 00:11:23,340 S2: are a big time player in the criminal underworld, and 190 00:11:23,340 --> 00:11:28,340 S2: they are incredibly violent and have been involved in all 191 00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:32,459 S2: sorts of shootings and other incidents over several years now. 192 00:11:33,380 --> 00:11:37,420 S2: So detectives quickly established that, in fact, the target who 193 00:11:37,420 --> 00:11:40,819 S2: lives quite close, may have links in some way or 194 00:11:40,820 --> 00:11:46,060 S2: another to the Alameddine family. What we were able to 195 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:48,540 S2: uncover over the course of the week and, and through, 196 00:11:48,820 --> 00:11:51,900 S2: you know, speaking to police sources and, and sort of 197 00:11:51,940 --> 00:11:56,140 S2: working through all this information is that the intended target 198 00:11:56,140 --> 00:12:00,980 S2: was the relative of a man named Dmitri Stepanian. Now, 199 00:12:01,020 --> 00:12:06,459 S2: Dmitri Stepanian is a 37 year old convicted armed robber. 200 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:09,860 S2: But his connection to this kidnapping is that he's the 201 00:12:09,860 --> 00:12:13,980 S2: founder of a clothing brand called Proper Streetwear. Now, Proper 202 00:12:13,980 --> 00:12:17,940 S2: Streetwear is a clothing brand that's long been linked to 203 00:12:17,980 --> 00:12:21,940 S2: the Alameddine crime family. Several of its members, including high 204 00:12:21,940 --> 00:12:25,860 S2: profile members, are often seen, be it in social media 205 00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:31,420 S2: posts or music videos, or in public wearing proper streetwear 206 00:12:31,460 --> 00:12:36,620 S2: clothing items. There's no suggestion that Dmitri Stepanian is involved 207 00:12:36,860 --> 00:12:41,819 S2: in kidnapping, nor is he accused of any wrongdoing. But 208 00:12:41,820 --> 00:12:44,650 S2: there is a clear link that detectives have been able 209 00:12:44,650 --> 00:12:50,570 S2: to establish between him and the Alameddine crime family. There's 210 00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:53,770 S2: also nothing to suggest that the Alameddine family itself is 211 00:12:53,770 --> 00:12:57,170 S2: involved in the kidnapping. But it certainly paints a picture 212 00:12:57,170 --> 00:13:02,170 S2: of of just how complicated this investigation has become, trying 213 00:13:02,170 --> 00:13:03,929 S2: to piece together exactly what's happened. 214 00:13:04,450 --> 00:13:05,410 S7: And can you tell us just. 215 00:13:05,410 --> 00:13:08,450 S1: A little bit more about this alleged link between this 216 00:13:08,450 --> 00:13:13,130 S1: convicted armed robber, also a Sydney businessman named Dimitri Stepanian? 217 00:13:13,170 --> 00:13:15,569 S1: As you said, he's not accused of having any involvement 218 00:13:15,570 --> 00:13:20,050 S1: in kidnapping, but you did publish that there was communication 219 00:13:20,330 --> 00:13:24,330 S1: allegedly between Mr. Stepanian with the alleged kidnappers. Right. So 220 00:13:24,330 --> 00:13:26,650 S1: what is the communication that they've had and what's going 221 00:13:26,650 --> 00:13:27,290 S1: on there? 222 00:13:28,170 --> 00:13:32,250 S2: So shortly after those images and video of Chris Bagdasarian 223 00:13:32,610 --> 00:13:38,850 S2: circulate within the underworld, there are also some messages that appear. Now, 224 00:13:38,850 --> 00:13:43,530 S2: it's unclear how legitimate the messages are, but they claim 225 00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:48,770 S2: to be messages sent from Chris Bulgarians kidnappers to Demetrius 226 00:13:48,770 --> 00:13:54,090 S2: Stepanyan demanding a ransom of up to $50 million for 227 00:13:54,090 --> 00:13:56,730 S2: his safe return. Now there's some back and forth in 228 00:13:56,730 --> 00:14:02,370 S2: these messages. The messages claim to be from Demetrius Stepanyan. 229 00:14:02,370 --> 00:14:04,730 S2: Make it quite clear that the kidnappers have got the 230 00:14:04,730 --> 00:14:08,449 S2: wrong man. And in fact, it's it's not a relation 231 00:14:08,450 --> 00:14:12,850 S2: of Mr. Stepanyan, but instead it's it's the wrong target. 232 00:14:13,450 --> 00:14:15,410 S2: And they sort of go in this back and forth 233 00:14:15,410 --> 00:14:20,450 S2: about returning Chris Bagherian and demanding a ransom. And then 234 00:14:20,450 --> 00:14:22,570 S2: it sort of peters out. I mean, there are a 235 00:14:22,570 --> 00:14:25,490 S2: few messages that we've seen. The police are aware of them. 236 00:14:25,970 --> 00:14:28,890 S2: But what's interesting here, and important to note, is that 237 00:14:28,930 --> 00:14:32,130 S2: the police say that no ransom demand has been made 238 00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:37,010 S2: to Chris Baxian's family across the entire 11 days that 239 00:14:37,010 --> 00:14:40,810 S2: he's been missing. So despite the attempts from the kidnappers 240 00:14:40,810 --> 00:14:44,720 S2: to get a ransom for his return. There's been no 241 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,680 S2: contact between them and Chris Baxian's family, which would be 242 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,920 S2: in line with what police say, in that neither he 243 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,400 S2: or his family have any links to this world. 244 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:54,440 S7: And we have. 245 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,200 S1: Have we heard anything from Mr. Baxian's family since this 246 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,400 S1: ordeal began nearly two weeks ago? 247 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,600 S2: So last week, Chris Baxian's family released a statement through 248 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,120 S2: New South Wales Police. And from what the police have 249 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,160 S2: told us, I mean, they are absolutely distraught. This is 250 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,000 S2: not a situation they've ever been in. It's not a 251 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,960 S2: situation they would ever imagine being in. They have no 252 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,360 S2: links to the criminal underworld. This is completely new to them. 253 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,960 S2: And what they say about Chris is that he's he's 254 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,680 S2: a deeply loved grandfather. He's an incredibly kind person. And 255 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,840 S2: they say that they're living through a nightmare that they 256 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,720 S2: they can't even imagine or begin to understand how they've 257 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,320 S2: been tied up in this situation. 258 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:40,640 S7: Yeah, it. 259 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,480 S1: Absolutely beggars belief. And very tragically, right before recording, you 260 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,520 S1: reported that detectives have found human remains that are believed 261 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,880 S1: to be Chris. So what can you tell us? 262 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,080 S2: So on Tuesday morning, it's now 11 days after Chris 263 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:02,600 S2: Baghdasaryan was taken from his home, police discovered human remains 264 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,520 S2: that they believe are Chris Bags areas near a golf 265 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,320 S2: course in Sydney's northwest this morning. 266 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,080 S5: Police attached to the Robbery and Serious Crime Squad located 267 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,560 S5: human remains in Pitt Town. We suspect those remains to 268 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,720 S5: be Mr. Bags, although the remains aren't able to be 269 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,880 S5: positively identified and there will be a formal process to 270 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,440 S5: try and identify those remains. There will be forensic examination 271 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:35,000 S5: of the remains, and we will attempt to identify Mr. 272 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,440 S5: Baghdasaryan if it is in fact him. As soon as possible. 273 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,750 S2: Now, it's not all that far from that dense bushland 274 00:16:41,750 --> 00:16:46,350 S2: that detectives were searching on Sunday and Monday, and they 275 00:16:46,350 --> 00:16:50,390 S2: made the discovery at about 8 a.m. on Tuesday morning and, 276 00:16:50,430 --> 00:16:52,990 S2: and quickly have been able to ascertain that they, they 277 00:16:52,990 --> 00:16:56,350 S2: believe those remains are those of Chris Bakhtiarian. 278 00:16:58,230 --> 00:17:00,150 S1: And so, Riley, just to wrap up, I mean, you 279 00:17:00,150 --> 00:17:03,830 S1: have been reporting on crime and violence for many years now. 280 00:17:03,830 --> 00:17:07,830 S1: But when we spoke in the newsroom before recording, you said, 281 00:17:07,869 --> 00:17:10,709 S1: you know, affected by this particular case. Why? So what 282 00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:12,389 S1: is it about this particular case? 283 00:17:12,830 --> 00:17:16,190 S2: This is a case that's gripped Sydney for the past 284 00:17:16,190 --> 00:17:19,109 S2: week and a half. I mean, any time you talk 285 00:17:19,109 --> 00:17:23,430 S2: to someone, they ask about Chris Bagherian. They ask, how 286 00:17:23,430 --> 00:17:26,590 S2: could this have happened? They ask who was the target. 287 00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:31,430 S2: What they also ask is, where have the rules gone? 288 00:17:31,790 --> 00:17:35,310 S2: There was a time where a senior police who have 289 00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:39,429 S2: covered the worst of the worst for for decades. We'll 290 00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:44,670 S2: say that this really signals a shift in the criminal underworld. 291 00:17:45,030 --> 00:17:47,629 S5: I suppose I speak for not only the police, but 292 00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:51,830 S5: the public in general, that we're outraged that this is 293 00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:55,750 S5: happening and the recklessness of these people. And what I 294 00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:59,909 S5: can say is that we will endeavour and use every 295 00:17:59,910 --> 00:18:04,310 S5: resource that we have to identify those responsible and bring 296 00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:05,389 S5: them before the courts. 297 00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:09,310 S2: Family members were once off limits. But what we've seen lately, 298 00:18:10,190 --> 00:18:13,310 S2: over the course of the past 12 to 18 months, 299 00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:17,270 S2: is that increasingly innocent people were being caught up in 300 00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:20,870 S2: this and not not just in terms of collateral damage 301 00:18:20,869 --> 00:18:23,830 S2: for public shootings and those sorts of things, but innocent 302 00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:27,670 S2: people are actually being targeted. And for someone like Chris 303 00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:31,430 S2: in a very vulnerable 85 year old who lives on 304 00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:35,350 S2: his own to be taken and in such a brutal 305 00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:40,300 S2: and ruthless way. It's really sent ripples throughout the entire city, 306 00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:44,820 S2: but also through policing ranks and and has even shocked 307 00:18:44,820 --> 00:18:47,260 S2: people who have seen this sort of thing for decades 308 00:18:47,260 --> 00:18:51,740 S2: and decades. The ruthlessness that seems to have emerged among 309 00:18:52,220 --> 00:18:56,100 S2: criminals in the past. Little while. I mean, it's it's 310 00:18:56,100 --> 00:19:00,100 S2: not a matter of separating, you know, the people that 311 00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:03,619 S2: you have issues with from innocent people. There seems to 312 00:19:03,619 --> 00:19:07,260 S2: be less and less of a clear line between what 313 00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:11,460 S2: criminals are willing to do and where they'll stop short. 314 00:19:13,740 --> 00:19:15,820 S1: It's a horribly sad story, but we're lucky that you're 315 00:19:15,820 --> 00:19:18,260 S1: reporting on it. So thank you so much, Riley, for 316 00:19:18,260 --> 00:19:18,900 S1: your time. 317 00:19:19,540 --> 00:19:20,219 S2: Thanks, Sam. 318 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:33,460 S1: In other news, today, the city doctor trying to repatriate 319 00:19:33,460 --> 00:19:37,100 S1: the so-called ISIS brides and their children, has spoken publicly 320 00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:40,140 S1: for the first time about how the Prime Minister's stance 321 00:19:40,140 --> 00:19:43,420 S1: is impacting his mission to return the group to Australia. 322 00:19:44,060 --> 00:19:47,740 S1: The Victorian premier has referred to police accusations that a 323 00:19:47,740 --> 00:19:52,300 S1: top gynecologist performed unnecessary surgery on women over a number 324 00:19:52,300 --> 00:19:56,180 S1: of years, and Nick Greiner, the son of Hollywood director 325 00:19:56,180 --> 00:19:59,980 S1: Rob Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner, has pleaded not guilty 326 00:19:59,980 --> 00:20:02,500 S1: in a Los Angeles court to the stabbing murders of 327 00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:06,620 S1: his parents more than two months ago. For all these stories, 328 00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:13,820 S1: go to our websites at smh.com.au or The Age. Today's 329 00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:17,860 S1: episode was produced by Josh towers. Our executive producer is 330 00:20:17,859 --> 00:20:21,900 S1: Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy 331 00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:25,340 S1: and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow the 332 00:20:25,340 --> 00:20:27,940 S1: Morning Edition and leave a review for us on Apple 333 00:20:27,940 --> 00:20:30,379 S1: or Spotify. Thanks for listening.