WEBVTT - Historical Child Abuse

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<v Speaker 1>Historical child abuse is any type of abuse that occurred

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<v Speaker 1>in the past, but typically relates to abuse during a

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<v Speaker 1>person's childhood or adolescent. It's got long lasting negative effects

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<v Speaker 1>on their emotional, psychological, and physical wellbeing. Abuse can take

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<v Speaker 1>a variety of forms, including sexual, emotional, and physical abuse,

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<v Speaker 1>as well as neglect. On the line to discuss this

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<v Speaker 1>important topic is Peter Karp, who's a lawyer dealing with

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<v Speaker 1>survivor victims of historical child abuse.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, Peter, Oh, good evening, Reverend Bill, how are you

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<v Speaker 2>good mate? Now?

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<v Speaker 1>How did you come get involved in this?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? A number of decades ago. Now, I did specialize

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<v Speaker 2>in the area of duty of care. And a friend

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<v Speaker 2>of mine, who did trade union work for trade unions

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<v Speaker 2>ringing me up and said he had this lady in

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<v Speaker 2>his prayer group whose son was abused by a religious

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<v Speaker 2>leader and could I help because he'd already fathers statement

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<v Speaker 2>of claiming the Supreme Court, which became the first one

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<v Speaker 2>ever in New South Wales. And I thought, well, I

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<v Speaker 2>better come and help him. And as I did that,

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<v Speaker 2>I realized this is a good area to be in

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<v Speaker 2>because being a Christian of Jesus follower, I believe in

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<v Speaker 2>doing good to change the dad, you see, and I

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<v Speaker 2>could see there was a lot of room for improvement

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<v Speaker 2>in the legal process for survivor victims of historical.

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<v Speaker 1>Abuse, because for survivors and victims, often it takes years

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<v Speaker 1>before it comes out, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right? Sometimes decades. We have people ranging from teenagers

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<v Speaker 2>up to people in their eighties who were all abused

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<v Speaker 2>as children, and for lots of reasons. But yes, it

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<v Speaker 2>does sometimes takes a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>And what are some of the major effects that they exhibit.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the main one these days is called post traumatic

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<v Speaker 2>stress disorder, and one of my clients is a psychologist

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<v Speaker 2>described it herself as saying, it's like I've got a

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<v Speaker 2>grenade inside me and it can go off at any time,

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<v Speaker 2>triggered by something I see on TV or something someone says,

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<v Speaker 2>or a memory that comes to me. Also depression, anxiety,

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<v Speaker 2>low self worth, their education suffers, their workplace suffers, their

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<v Speaker 2>family suffer, and unfortunately sometimes they're going too self harm

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<v Speaker 2>as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So what are the barriers to them finding recovery?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I think the main barrier is the shame.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like the little child inside them has closed themselves up,

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<v Speaker 2>feeling shame, even though it's not their fault at all,

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<v Speaker 2>and then unfortunately they resort to other methods to help themselves,

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<v Speaker 2>such as alcohol and drugs to self medicate the effects,

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<v Speaker 2>and they just find it difficult to share with other people.

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<v Speaker 1>Built and what are some of the pathways to healing

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<v Speaker 1>for survivors that are healthy?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very good question. The good things for survivors is

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<v Speaker 2>counseling if they can. Sometimes they can't because they find

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<v Speaker 2>it difficult to open up psychologists, medical health, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>drug and alcohol help. And then support groups such as

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<v Speaker 2>one in we have here in New South Walest called

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<v Speaker 2>Samson Survivors and Made Support that We're a wonderful organization

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<v Speaker 2>where they can get together in a support group with

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<v Speaker 2>other people who've been through similar things and just share

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<v Speaker 2>about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, how effective MATE is the National Redress scheme, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's supposed to be there to give pursue justice.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, it is effective, it definitely is, But it's limited.

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<v Speaker 2>It's limited because it only deals with sexual abuse, not

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<v Speaker 2>physical abuse, and the levels of compensation that are provided

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<v Speaker 2>are also limited maximum one hundred and fifty thousand, and

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<v Speaker 2>for some the maximum if it's only touching abuses ten thousand,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's forty thousand and exposure abuse ten thousand. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's certainly got its benefits, particularly where it's the proof

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<v Speaker 2>to prove the case would be difficult in a civil court.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, there have been two court decisions recently, one in

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<v Speaker 1>the High Court and one in the Court of Appeal

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<v Speaker 1>that have really been a setback of justice for victims.

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<v Speaker 2>They have. One is called Bishop Bird against the a DP,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a pseudonym in the other one is called

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<v Speaker 2>AA versus the trustees of the Maitland Diocese. Now they're

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<v Speaker 2>both Catholic Church matters, but this doesn't just affect Catholic Church.

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<v Speaker 2>It affects any organization, any institution that is dealing with children.

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<v Speaker 2>And what those decisions are saying is that they will

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<v Speaker 2>not extend the vicarious liability of the employer or the

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<v Speaker 2>organization to someone who is not technically an employee. So

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<v Speaker 2>it means a priest of the Catholic Church in Bird

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<v Speaker 2>and also AA. In those two decisions of the High

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<v Speaker 2>Court and the Court of Appeal, they were not allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to proceed with their case because technically a priest is

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<v Speaker 2>not an employee according to those cases. So this is Really,

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<v Speaker 2>the crux of the matter at the moment is we've

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<v Speaker 2>had left us. The High courts left us with two

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<v Speaker 2>classes of citizens. One a child who is abused and

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<v Speaker 2>grown up can get recompense under this doctrine of vicarious

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<v Speaker 2>liability if the person is an employee an Anglican minister,

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<v Speaker 2>is a scripture teacher employed by the school. Is but

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<v Speaker 2>a priest isn't. A volunteer, isn't a youth leader, isn't

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<v Speaker 2>a scout leader, isn't as coach of a rugby team,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't because they're not employees. And what the law was

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<v Speaker 2>developing to the point where the survivors could get compensation

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<v Speaker 2>in those areas, but the High Court closed it off.

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<v Speaker 1>Now I gather this remedial legislation being put for the

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<v Speaker 1>Act Parliament this month and other places too. How confident

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<v Speaker 1>are you of a favorable outcome from these measures?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we need public support for those. Jeremy Buckingham in

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<v Speaker 2>New South Wales of the Legalized Marijuana Party, his coort

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<v Speaker 2>in Victoria has done the same there and the Greens

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<v Speaker 2>have put forward remedial legislation in the Act. So we

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<v Speaker 2>just want support from the big parties to do the

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<v Speaker 2>right thing by the survivors, as happened in the Royal Commission,

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<v Speaker 2>as was enunciated by Julia Gillard, who herself came out

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<v Speaker 2>and said how bad the High Court decision was a

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<v Speaker 2>few days after. So we just need that public support

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<v Speaker 2>and support in the major parties to say, hey, fix

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<v Speaker 2>this so that our children will be safe.

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<v Speaker 1>Now do you think have you had any support from

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<v Speaker 1>the Parliament so far outside of those people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, we have had parliamentarians indicate that they're supportive. But

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<v Speaker 2>currently the New South Wales Attorney General is sitting on

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<v Speaker 2>the fence and that hopefully that will change with public support.

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<v Speaker 1>So what sort of legislation would you like to see?

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<v Speaker 2>All we'd like to see is the legislation to become retrospective.

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<v Speaker 2>The moment, there is legislation saying that people are kin

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<v Speaker 2>to an employee who are like a scout leader type

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<v Speaker 2>person or a coach of a team, who are who

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<v Speaker 2>are looking after kids all the time. Legislation said has

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<v Speaker 2>been put in into October twenty eighteen in New South

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<v Speaker 2>Wales and other states saying that yeah, that should be

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<v Speaker 2>something that the law extends to, but only prospectively built.

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<v Speaker 2>So it means no one's going to avail themselves of

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<v Speaker 2>that law until thirty or forty years time, so absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>useless at the moment. All we have to do is

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<v Speaker 2>make it retrospective.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, there's bound to be someone listening tonight who's the

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<v Speaker 1>survivor victim of historical child abuse. Where can they reach

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<v Speaker 1>out for help?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay? So the easiest way for such a person who's listening,

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<v Speaker 2>and that person you're wondering what do I do? You

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<v Speaker 2>can pick up the phone and ring up an organization

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<v Speaker 2>called No More starts with a K, not an end

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<v Speaker 2>k nowmire and they're on one eight hundred six five

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<v Speaker 2>seventy six two one eight hundred six oh five seventy

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<v Speaker 2>sixty two. They're an independent government organization to advise people

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<v Speaker 2>who are who are survivors of historical abuse and they

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<v Speaker 2>were set up by the Royal Commission by the government.

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<v Speaker 2>They're funded by the government to make sure that every

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<v Speaker 2>person has access to justice.

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<v Speaker 1>Peter, as a lawyer, how often does someone come to

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<v Speaker 1>you with this sort of situation?

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<v Speaker 2>People in this situation every day, it's a daily thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And sometimes, as I said, there's still even a teenager,

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<v Speaker 2>others in their twenties thirties, forty fifties, all sorts of

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<v Speaker 2>people who finally have decided to come out. Unfortunately we're

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<v Speaker 2>seeing too much of it. But the main thing is

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<v Speaker 2>we need to fix the law so that the institutions

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<v Speaker 2>will be looking over their shold the saying, hey, if

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<v Speaker 2>we don't look after these children properly, they might come

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<v Speaker 2>and sue us. We've got to make sure they have

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<v Speaker 2>that incentive to put protective measures in place for our

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<v Speaker 2>children so that in the future there'll be less people

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<v Speaker 2>ringing up lawyers like me.

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<v Speaker 1>Peter, Peter, keep you, keep your powder going, keep going.

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<v Speaker 1>See them. God bless you mate. Thank you. Peter carp,

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<v Speaker 1>a lawyer who deals with survived victims of historical child abuse,

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for talking to us tonight. And more

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<v Speaker 1>strength to your mate, more.

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<v Speaker 2>Strength, Thanks for everyone. Bill, want you too.

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<v Speaker 1>God bless thank you.