WEBVTT - Inside the Dutton camp: A leader’s downfall 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:04.800 From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:09.960 This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Cylinder Morris. It's Tuesday, 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:17.279 May 6th. The knives have been out for Angus Taylor 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.200 for a while. Former opposition leader Peter Dutton was forced 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:24.200 to defend the shadow treasurer in June last year after 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:28.280 one of his own Liberal frontbenchers attacked him with accusations 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.760 that he was incompetent. And now, in the wake of 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.559 the coalition's election bloodbath, many of his colleagues are not 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.760 just lobbying their own accusations that Taylor is perhaps the 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.440 main reason they lost, but they're spilling the beans to 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:47.159 our reporters today. Foreign Affairs and national security correspondent Matthew 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:51.279 Nord and federal politics reporter Natassia Chrysanthos. Give us an 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:55.520 inside look at when coalition MPs realised that their campaign 0:00:55.520 --> 0:01:04.840 had gone off the rails. Welcome to you both. Okay, Taz, 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:06.520 I'm going to start with you because I want you 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.679 to take us back to the start of the election campaign, 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:12.520 the end of March. You've written about what was happening 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:16.120 within Peter Dutton's camp. You know, now we know there 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.280 was a complete overconfidence there. But can you take us 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.080 inside the room, like what was going on back at 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:21.760 the start? 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.080 So if we go back to the final, final day 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.680 of Parliament, which was two days after the budget and 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.399 a day before the election was called. 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.800 The Prime Minister has. The Prime Minister has caused a 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.920 lot of pain to Australian families over the last three years? 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.560 Will the Prime Minister join with me in cutting the 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:46.959 price of petrol and diesel to save? You had this. 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:52.120 Very recent tightening in the polls. So I think you 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:56.760 started to see signs of confidence, I suppose, from both sides. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:03.450 I wonder, I wonder if I wonder if when he 0:02:03.490 --> 0:02:07.210 sat there, members on my when he sat there and 0:02:07.210 --> 0:02:13.970 reintroduced in organization in 2014, I wonder. 0:02:14.530 --> 0:02:18.410 I wonder what hadn't really happened at that point was 0:02:18.410 --> 0:02:22.810 that kind of quite steady week by week decline in 0:02:22.810 --> 0:02:25.690 the coalition standing? You know, as we as we wrote 0:02:25.690 --> 0:02:28.570 in the piece, you had some coalition MPs saying we 0:02:28.570 --> 0:02:33.369 can pick up 18 seats. Um, so feeling pretty good 0:02:33.370 --> 0:02:34.650 about their chances. 0:02:34.690 --> 0:02:37.329 Okay. And then even back in late January, Matt, there 0:02:37.330 --> 0:02:40.410 was one prominent sign that perhaps some Liberal senators were 0:02:40.610 --> 0:02:42.930 really feeling too cocky. So tell me about that. 0:02:43.210 --> 0:02:46.489 Yes. Now, this is something that at some stage in opposition, 0:02:46.490 --> 0:02:48.530 you would have to get around to if you thought 0:02:48.530 --> 0:02:51.410 you had a chance of victory. But, uh, this is 0:02:51.410 --> 0:02:54.890 being reflected on by several people in the coalition that 0:02:54.889 --> 0:02:59.170 at the very first shadow Cabinet meeting of the year. 0:02:59.370 --> 0:03:04.049 This was on the agenda was for the coalition frontbenchers 0:03:04.050 --> 0:03:07.010 to do what are called statements of expectations. This is 0:03:07.010 --> 0:03:10.490 what you would deliver to the public service if you win. 0:03:10.530 --> 0:03:14.489 To set out your priorities. The fact this was being 0:03:14.490 --> 0:03:18.049 discussed then is seen as a sign that expectations had 0:03:18.210 --> 0:03:23.970 got completely out of control of victory. Coalition frontbenchers were 0:03:24.050 --> 0:03:28.169 talking about the public service chiefs that they might want 0:03:28.169 --> 0:03:32.690 to depose and appoint their own people. So it shows 0:03:32.690 --> 0:03:35.530 that at this time, it feels like a long time ago. 0:03:35.570 --> 0:03:37.650 At the start of the year, there was a very 0:03:37.650 --> 0:03:41.210 different vibe that there was a feeling that they could win. 0:03:41.250 --> 0:03:44.210 And yeah, there was a bit of hubris starting to 0:03:44.210 --> 0:03:44.850 creep in. 0:03:45.250 --> 0:03:47.610 And at this time, the coalition is soaring in the 0:03:47.610 --> 0:03:50.250 polls and an insider told you that, you know, the 0:03:50.250 --> 0:03:53.290 party room was getting reassurance that the policy work had 0:03:53.290 --> 0:03:54.930 been done right. So they were going to have a 0:03:54.930 --> 0:03:58.890 clear economic vision about what they'd be selling to their electorates, right? 0:03:58.930 --> 0:04:01.490 Yeah. So MPs have said this is what they were 0:04:01.490 --> 0:04:05.210 being told. And even in in the public commentary, um, 0:04:05.450 --> 0:04:08.170 that was coming from the frontbench and opposition leader Peter 0:04:08.170 --> 0:04:11.730 Dutton at the end of last year, um, with nuclear, 0:04:11.730 --> 0:04:13.369 for example, it was like, oh, we've got the stuff 0:04:13.370 --> 0:04:15.410 ready to go. We're just waiting for the right time. 0:04:15.450 --> 0:04:19.010 They've done all these other things, for example, blocking student caps. 0:04:19.050 --> 0:04:21.890 They were assuring everyone that we have our own student 0:04:21.890 --> 0:04:24.370 cap policy ready to go. And every time the question 0:04:24.370 --> 0:04:26.650 was when, when, when the kind of line you'd hear 0:04:26.650 --> 0:04:28.930 from Dutton was, well, you know, why would we come 0:04:28.930 --> 0:04:31.650 out with stuff when Labor's doing such a good job 0:04:31.650 --> 0:04:34.890 of stuffing things up for themselves? We're just going to 0:04:34.890 --> 0:04:36.930 let the wheels fall off labour and we'll come in 0:04:36.930 --> 0:04:38.450 with our stuff when we need to. 0:04:38.490 --> 0:04:41.770 And this was a big difference between the two campaigns, 0:04:41.970 --> 0:04:44.570 the two sides of politics. Looking back to the start 0:04:44.570 --> 0:04:47.770 of the year, the coalition began the start of the 0:04:47.770 --> 0:04:52.050 year with their policy offering being a taxpayer subsidies for 0:04:52.050 --> 0:04:56.250 business lunches, which is a really minor policy that actually 0:04:56.250 --> 0:05:01.090 proved a very easy to ridicule and wasn't going at 0:05:01.089 --> 0:05:05.409 the heart of voters worries about cost of living. Whereas 0:05:05.450 --> 0:05:08.849 the Prime Minister and Labour, they kicked off the year 0:05:09.089 --> 0:05:12.570 with a big focus on health and Medicare and getting 0:05:12.770 --> 0:05:15.290 down what you paid to go to the doctor, it 0:05:15.290 --> 0:05:20.850 was much more substantial. The coalition had a very threadbare 0:05:21.410 --> 0:05:24.210 policy offering then, and it was clear at the time 0:05:24.210 --> 0:05:28.330 that that wasn't very useful. And with hindsight now, you 0:05:28.330 --> 0:05:31.250 can see that they were focusing on the wrong things. 0:05:31.410 --> 0:05:33.810 And Matt and Taz, you you know, you've really given 0:05:33.810 --> 0:05:38.290 us an inside look into when coalition MPs started to realise, 0:05:38.290 --> 0:05:40.610 oh my God, the wheels are about to fall off here, 0:05:40.610 --> 0:05:41.930 so take us inside that. 0:05:41.970 --> 0:05:45.330 Well, no one expected the result to be as bad 0:05:45.330 --> 0:05:49.610 as it was. Even in the few days before the election, 0:05:49.650 --> 0:05:53.529 MPs who were very disappointed with what the coalition had 0:05:53.529 --> 0:05:56.700 come up with were telling me they were thinking perhaps 0:05:56.700 --> 0:06:00.420 they could get say into the mid 60s in the 0:06:00.420 --> 0:06:04.020 number of seats. Now they're currently in the low 40s, 0:06:04.020 --> 0:06:07.580 which is a huge difference. And that goes to the 0:06:08.100 --> 0:06:13.020 terrible internal polling that the party was getting, which seems 0:06:13.020 --> 0:06:16.660 to be even worse than the published polling that we 0:06:16.660 --> 0:06:19.940 were producing in the media, which was pretty accurate. You 0:06:19.940 --> 0:06:23.420 usually hear that the polling political parties get is way 0:06:23.420 --> 0:06:25.660 more accurate, and if you could only see the special 0:06:25.660 --> 0:06:28.780 magical polling we're seeing, you'd understand. And in fact, it 0:06:28.779 --> 0:06:32.740 turned out to be even worse. But what we saw 0:06:32.740 --> 0:06:39.740 was this policy making process got even worse throughout the campaign. Uh, 0:06:39.860 --> 0:06:42.060 you know, and in the days leading up to it, 0:06:42.100 --> 0:06:46.900 Dutton's big announcement on a domestic gas reservation policy. This 0:06:46.900 --> 0:06:50.700 was only done in the couple of days leading up 0:06:50.700 --> 0:06:53.859 to his big budget reply Speech. 0:06:53.900 --> 0:06:56.859 And tonight I announce our national gas plan. This plan 0:06:56.860 --> 0:07:01.580 will prioritise domestic gas supply, address shortfalls and reduce energy 0:07:01.580 --> 0:07:06.140 prices for Australians. This is all about ensuring Australian gas 0:07:06.300 --> 0:07:07.539 is for Australians. 0:07:08.020 --> 0:07:11.460 The industry was very unhappy about it, very hard to 0:07:11.460 --> 0:07:15.500 explain to voters they didn't have the modelling on how 0:07:15.500 --> 0:07:20.460 this would bring anybody's energy prices down. So in the 0:07:20.460 --> 0:07:23.900 early days of the campaign I was travelling with Peter 0:07:23.900 --> 0:07:26.260 Dutton and this was what the press pack wanted to 0:07:26.300 --> 0:07:29.100 know was what's the impact for voters? I don't think 0:07:29.100 --> 0:07:32.180 it was even a tricky gotcha question. We were trying 0:07:32.180 --> 0:07:35.260 to find out for our readers what the impact would be, 0:07:35.260 --> 0:07:38.140 and they didn't have it. And Peter Dutton just kept saying, oh, 0:07:38.140 --> 0:07:39.940 we've got it, we'll bring it to you. And it 0:07:39.940 --> 0:07:42.540 seems that they didn't release it yet because they didn't 0:07:42.540 --> 0:07:45.060 have it, and they were cooking it up to essentially 0:07:45.060 --> 0:07:50.140 backfill the policy they'd already announced. We saw this with 0:07:50.180 --> 0:07:55.020 the very expensive a one year a tax cut which 0:07:55.060 --> 0:07:59.860 cost $10 billion for a single year of tax relief 0:07:59.860 --> 0:08:04.180 that was being written in real time the day before 0:08:04.300 --> 0:08:10.300 the speech, with the numbers being plugged in to the documents. Uh, 0:08:10.540 --> 0:08:13.700 and that's not the way policy should be made. So 0:08:13.700 --> 0:08:16.780 there's going to be a lot of questions to be 0:08:16.780 --> 0:08:20.020 asked about why it was all so last minute. 0:08:20.380 --> 0:08:22.900 To jump in there quickly with the two other examples 0:08:22.900 --> 0:08:27.220 that to me, really stood out, were on immigration, was, 0:08:27.260 --> 0:08:29.380 you know, that's one of the areas where the coalition 0:08:29.380 --> 0:08:32.500 is seen as strongest amongst the public. They had a 0:08:32.500 --> 0:08:35.540 really solid ground to make that attack against Labour, because 0:08:35.540 --> 0:08:39.940 Labour did have, uh, immigration numbers blowing out year on year. 0:08:40.140 --> 0:08:43.339 18 months earlier, the coalition had started putting out some 0:08:43.340 --> 0:08:46.740 of its targets, um, or suggestions of where it wanted 0:08:46.740 --> 0:08:50.579 migration figures to be. And come the week before the election, 0:08:50.580 --> 0:08:53.460 they still had no detail about where those cuts were 0:08:53.460 --> 0:08:55.300 going to come from. And they were they were talking 0:08:55.340 --> 0:08:57.500 across each other and ruling one visa class out, but 0:08:57.500 --> 0:09:00.380 then someone else would rule it in. Um, similar with 0:09:00.380 --> 0:09:04.260 the public servants policy that had been floated, uh, back 0:09:04.260 --> 0:09:08.420 in August last year. And again, come the costings, the 0:09:08.420 --> 0:09:13.620 policy and numbers were changing week by week. 0:09:13.940 --> 0:09:18.500 I'm also really curious about the exasperation that you've heard 0:09:18.500 --> 0:09:23.060 from coalition MPs because they've they've told you some stunning things. 0:09:23.100 --> 0:09:25.939 Tell us what they've told you about how exasperated they've been. 0:09:26.700 --> 0:09:33.099 Uh, yes. Yes. MPs are absolutely exasperated. Uh, shadow ministers 0:09:33.100 --> 0:09:36.500 are talking about they were doing work. They were submitting 0:09:36.540 --> 0:09:40.420 a policy proposals that went into a void and were 0:09:40.420 --> 0:09:44.179 never really seen again. I know that the defence policy 0:09:44.179 --> 0:09:48.180 was being worked up and consulted on at least six 0:09:48.179 --> 0:09:53.750 months ago, but only materialized with no detail in the 0:09:53.950 --> 0:09:58.550 penultimate week of the campaign. We're starting to hear more 0:09:58.550 --> 0:10:03.830 about the dysfunctional relationships between Peter Dutton and Susan Lay, 0:10:03.870 --> 0:10:08.470 between Peter Dutton and Angus Taylor, between Peter Dutton and 0:10:08.510 --> 0:10:13.270 Andrew Hastie. They weren't all on the same page. We're 0:10:13.270 --> 0:10:18.309 hearing a lot about decision making being held within a 0:10:18.309 --> 0:10:24.710 very small group in Peter Dutton's office that's been nicknamed 0:10:24.750 --> 0:10:30.430 the FM crew to avoid using too crude language. So 0:10:30.470 --> 0:10:35.949 this wasn't a broad cabinet style process of decision making, 0:10:35.950 --> 0:10:40.550 and there's a lot of retribution about that, because this 0:10:40.550 --> 0:10:42.710 isn't the way things are supposed to work. 0:10:42.750 --> 0:10:45.350 And on that, I think one coalition MP put it 0:10:45.350 --> 0:10:48.910 quite aptly in the piece, which is they said we 0:10:48.910 --> 0:10:51.350 didn't do the work. We haven't had a serious small 0:10:51.350 --> 0:10:55.390 business or industrial relations policy or tax policy or anything 0:10:55.429 --> 0:10:59.350 on investment and cutting regulation. We cautiously trusted them at 0:10:59.350 --> 0:11:01.790 the time, but it became obvious nearer to the campaign 0:11:01.790 --> 0:11:03.670 that the work was not actually done, and that we 0:11:03.670 --> 0:11:06.709 believed we could win the election without a proper economic agenda. 0:11:07.110 --> 0:11:10.230 Will, this feeds into a question I was really, uh, 0:11:10.270 --> 0:11:12.630 stuck with after I read your piece, which is why 0:11:12.630 --> 0:11:15.230 did these insiders actually speak to you? I mean, was 0:11:15.230 --> 0:11:18.310 it just anger over how badly things went? You know, 0:11:18.350 --> 0:11:20.589 are they talking behind their colleagues backs because they're hoping 0:11:20.590 --> 0:11:23.229 for change? Perhaps something else. Matt? 0:11:23.510 --> 0:11:27.030 Uh, well, they've been living this for several years, and 0:11:27.030 --> 0:11:29.430 people want to vent. People want to get things off 0:11:29.429 --> 0:11:33.510 their chest. People have grievances about their colleagues. You know, 0:11:33.550 --> 0:11:37.550 people want to point fingers at others. People want to 0:11:37.590 --> 0:11:43.550 control their narrative. During the campaign itself, everyone's very determined 0:11:43.550 --> 0:11:47.910 to stay on message and help the team. And knowing 0:11:47.950 --> 0:11:49.910 that a piece like this, which is only going to 0:11:49.950 --> 0:11:54.030 appear the day after and the result is known, people 0:11:54.030 --> 0:11:57.270 are more comfortable to talk then, and we're seeing it. 0:11:57.429 --> 0:12:00.510 We're going to see it in the days following the election. 0:12:00.950 --> 0:12:04.670 People will be speaking out. So, uh, yeah, there's a 0:12:04.670 --> 0:12:07.590 lot of reason why people want to get things off 0:12:07.590 --> 0:12:10.830 their chest in the days after such a disastrous result. 0:12:10.870 --> 0:12:13.470 Okay. And now we inevitably we've got to talk about 0:12:13.470 --> 0:12:17.590 shadow treasurer Angus Taylor because, you know, the knives are 0:12:17.630 --> 0:12:19.710 out for him. So what are members of the coalition 0:12:19.710 --> 0:12:22.390 saying about him now? I mean, are they placing much 0:12:22.390 --> 0:12:25.710 of the blame on him for this catastrophic loss? 0:12:26.230 --> 0:12:28.230 Yes, this was a big thing that was coming up 0:12:28.230 --> 0:12:30.990 in the days leading up to Election Day, when it 0:12:30.990 --> 0:12:34.150 looked like the coalition wouldn't win. Uh, a lot of 0:12:34.150 --> 0:12:37.870 feedback coming back that the main source of blame should 0:12:37.870 --> 0:12:43.070 be the coalition's economic team, which simply didn't produce the 0:12:43.070 --> 0:12:47.030 type of policies that you would expect they'd had three 0:12:47.030 --> 0:12:51.590 years of opposition to develop policies, and what came out 0:12:51.630 --> 0:12:55.510 was very threadbare and then done at the last minute. 0:12:55.550 --> 0:12:57.710 Now there's a lot of back and forth about this. 0:12:57.750 --> 0:13:02.230 We're seeing briefing from people close to the shadow treasurer, 0:13:02.230 --> 0:13:04.069 Angus Taylor, who are talking about some of the great 0:13:04.070 --> 0:13:08.030 ideas they think they had that never went anywhere. Clearly, 0:13:08.030 --> 0:13:12.590 there was a dysfunctional relationship between him and Peter Dutton. 0:13:13.030 --> 0:13:17.310 But throughout opposition, Angus Taylor has struggled to go up 0:13:17.309 --> 0:13:21.510 against a Jim Chalmers, the treasurer. It's been a running 0:13:21.510 --> 0:13:26.510 joke in labor about how few questions Angus Taylor asks 0:13:26.510 --> 0:13:31.349 of Jim Chalmers in Question Time. We've seen Liberal Senator 0:13:31.350 --> 0:13:37.910 Hollie Hughes out on Monday morning very critical of Angus Taylor, 0:13:37.910 --> 0:13:40.710 saying she has concerns about his capability. 0:13:40.750 --> 0:13:44.070 I think the fact that the economic narrative was just 0:13:44.190 --> 0:13:47.880 completely non-existent, I'm not quite sure what he's been doing 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.640 for three years. There is no tax plan. I think 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:52.800 the economic team has significant something. 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.400 You were hearing from her colleagues in the lead up 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.880 to polling day was just the economy is supposed to 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.040 be a strength for the coalition, but they felt they 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.520 had very little to sell there, particularly in a long 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.600 term sense beyond a few temporary one off measures that 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.400 were going to expire within a year. 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.640 And do you reckon it's fair their criticisms of him, 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:14.880 or do you think that's just them, you know, trying 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.960 to shift the blame because, you know, obviously the recriminations 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.440 are savage now. So do you think this is just 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.520 protecting their backs or do you think it's fair, especially 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.880 what Hollie Hughes says. She said that, you know, they 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:31.320 had a complete lack of policy and economic narrative and that, 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.000 you know, she says, I don't know what he's been 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.720 doing for three years. Is that fair? That really he 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.000 just hasn't done much? 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.240 It's certainly fair. Based on the results. Now, Angus Taylor 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.040 and people close to him will tell you that work 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:47.200 was being done. It didn't all get through the leader's office. 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.760 You know, there are conflicting accounts here, but whatever the case, 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.320 you only need to look at the results, that it 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.000 wasn't effective. There wasn't good economic policy, and he was 0:14:58.000 --> 0:14:59.800 the shadow treasurer. And he has to bear a big 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:01.160 responsibility for that. 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.640 I think as well, since so much of the criticism 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.520 that had come from Taylor was around tax and Australians 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.040 are paying too much income tax. So I think one 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.440 could expect and a voter could expect, given that he's 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.680 identified this big problem, well, you'd expect some kind of 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:18.480 solution to that. And what we saw at the end 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.560 of the day was the coalition coming in to raise 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:26.560 income taxes, um, by repealing Labor's recent tax cut, which was, 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.320 as many people have pointed out, a very absurd position 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.160 for them to be in and probably really hurt their 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.640 credibility on that issue going into the election. 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.720 Well, yeah, it was absolutely bizarre. It was bizarre as 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.880 it was happening that the Labor Party came out on 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:45.520 budget night with pretty modest tax cuts and what everyone 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.800 in the press gallery expected was. Of course, the coalition 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:53.080 would match them and maybe try and outdo them. But no, 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.040 that wasn't the decision. So Jim Chalmers has said that 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.120 he couldn't believe they gave them such a political gift. And, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.080 you know, this will be a key source of the 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.280 retribution within the party. And as he was saying, what 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.760 a gift it was. I was thinking of his political hero, 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.280 Paul Keating, who used the phrase getting hit in the 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.080 arse by a rainbow. And that's really what labor was 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.360 with decisions like this from the coalition to go to 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.520 an election promising to raise income tax. 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.600 I love that so much. I mean, it's commentary like that. 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.240 This is why we love politics. But but just to 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.720 wrap up on Angus Taylor, you know, was he once 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.560 considered a forerunner to lead the liberals after Dutton? And 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:32.960 if so, what are his prospects now? 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:37.440 Well, he's still very much one of the leadership contenders. 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.440 What everyone within the Liberal Party is saying is we 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.720 don't have a lot of great choices. They're not very 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:48.520 enthused about any of the candidates. So Angus Taylor has 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.960 a support base. You know, he's he's a factional player. 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.440 He has numbers within the party. He's been working on 0:16:55.480 --> 0:17:01.480 that throughout opposition. Uh, Sussan Ley clearly was a bit 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:06.119 disconnected from Peter Dutton, as she would present probably a 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.399 more moderate face than some of the others. The Liberal 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.000 Party is struggling with women. She would be a good 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.520 choice there. You couldn't say. She did a lot during 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.240 the campaign. And then Dan Tehan, when Taz was talking 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.280 before about the immigration policy, he had a battle to 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.680 hold on to his seat and he did win, but 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:29.840 he did absolutely no national media during the campaign, which 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:31.880 he could have still done while campaigning for a seat 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.719 to talk about immigration, which was supposed to be a 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.040 strength for the coalition. So no one within the party 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.240 is very excited about any of the candidates, and it's 0:17:42.330 --> 0:17:44.970 being seen as it's a job, perhaps for someone to 0:17:45.010 --> 0:17:47.290 do for a few years while they rebuild, and then 0:17:47.290 --> 0:17:50.730 they can think again about who an actual alternative prime 0:17:50.730 --> 0:17:51.690 minister would be. 0:17:52.490 --> 0:17:55.129 Okay, well, definitely a space to watch. So thank you 0:17:55.130 --> 0:17:57.890 so much, Natasha and Matt, for your time. 0:17:58.210 --> 0:17:58.730 Thank you. 0:17:58.770 --> 0:17:59.450 Thank you. 0:18:02.770 --> 0:18:06.530 Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Tammy Mills, 0:18:06.650 --> 0:18:10.570 with technical assistance by Josh towers. Tom McKendrick is our 0:18:10.570 --> 0:18:13.570 head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon 0:18:13.570 --> 0:18:17.290 as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify 0:18:17.290 --> 0:18:20.930 or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered 0:18:20.930 --> 0:18:25.010 by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit The Age 0:18:25.010 --> 0:18:30.490 or smh.com.au. Subscribe and to stay up to date. Sign 0:18:30.490 --> 0:18:33.050 up to our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary 0:18:33.050 --> 0:18:36.730 of the day's most important news in your inbox every morning. 0:18:37.250 --> 0:18:40.850 Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. 0:18:41.010 --> 0:18:42.210 Thanks for listening.