1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:05,040 S1: One Nation is having a bit of a moment. Pauline 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,360 S1: Hanson's outfit, accused by both major parties of exploiting racial 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,840 S1: anxiety over the years, has faded into irrelevance at points 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:13,920 S1: since she burst onto the scene in the late 90s. 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,919 S1: But two new polls have recorded record high primary votes 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,880 S1: for One Nation. One of them saw One Nation's vote 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,640 S1: rise above the coalition, which split in spectacular fashion this 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,400 S1: week over new hate crime legislation in the wake of 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,760 S1: the Bondi massacre. The break up of the coalition and 10 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,680 S1: the rise of One Nation may point to a tectonic 11 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,440 S1: change in conservative politics. At the same time, the attack 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,680 S1: at Bondi further sapped trust in our political system as 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,880 S1: politicians have brawled in the wake of the tragedy. Amid 14 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,800 S1: the confusion over what led up to the attack and 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,760 S1: what the country needs to do next, One Nation's message 16 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:52,120 S1: has been simple Islam's extreme fringe needs more attention and 17 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,480 S1: guns are not a problem. I'm Paul Circle and you're 18 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,880 S1: listening to Inside Politics from the Age and the Sydney 19 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,500 S1: Morning Herald from Parliament House this week we recorded an 20 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:05,100 S1: interview before the coalition split with One Nation's newest recruit. 21 00:01:05,140 --> 00:01:14,940 S1: Nationals defector and former Deputy Prime minister Barnaby Joyce. Welcome, Barnaby. 22 00:01:14,940 --> 00:01:16,220 S2: Latest recruit. 23 00:01:17,340 --> 00:01:18,220 S1: Do you like that term? 24 00:01:18,380 --> 00:01:20,780 S2: Newest recruit? My mother would always pick him up. She 25 00:01:20,780 --> 00:01:22,020 S2: was a peasant and all that sort of stuff. 26 00:01:22,020 --> 00:01:24,380 S1: Well, there's apparently some recruits on the way. 27 00:01:24,740 --> 00:01:27,420 S2: Ah, well, I don't know. We'll we'll find. I honestly, 28 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:31,339 S2: I never. People say other discussions. Of course there's discussions. 29 00:01:31,340 --> 00:01:34,940 S2: But it's like everything else I always say to people, 30 00:01:34,940 --> 00:01:38,780 S2: it's it's something I deliberated on over about a year. Mhm. 31 00:01:39,220 --> 00:01:42,300 S2: Um it's a, it's a choice. That's yours. I'll be 32 00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:44,580 S2: really honest Pauline never put any pressure on me to 33 00:01:44,580 --> 00:01:47,020 S2: do it. She said you go exactly at your pace 34 00:01:47,020 --> 00:01:50,460 S2: what you do, whether you don't, that's up to you. Um, but, uh, well, 35 00:01:50,500 --> 00:01:54,180 S2: for me, it's self-evident that, um, I was wasting my 36 00:01:54,180 --> 00:01:58,940 S2: time sitting in the back corner. Um, basically being asked 37 00:01:58,940 --> 00:02:01,480 S2: to leave Parliament and and that's what I would have 38 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,720 S2: had to do, was I had to hang around. But 39 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,560 S2: I don't encourage other people. I say it's your choice. 40 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,720 S2: It's your life. It's your political career. You do what 41 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:09,560 S2: you think is best. 42 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,320 S1: And they nats the conversations. 43 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,480 S2: I'm not going to give. That narrows it down a bit. 44 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,560 S2: I'm not going to give that away. Yeah. 45 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,600 S1: Well I remember when you left in when you quit 46 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,480 S1: the Nats in November after months of speculation. You said 47 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,400 S1: in your speech in the chamber, which I was sitting 48 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,240 S1: in the press gallery watching, that you felt in some 49 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,800 S1: ways irrelevant. You used that word and not even two 50 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,520 S1: months later, you're back here in Parliament and you're called 51 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,000 S1: by Murray Watt on Monday morning, the the opposition leader. 52 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,320 S3: At such a high level that you can't deliver homes, 53 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,280 S3: but you've got to have the skilled workers to deliver 54 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:39,799 S3: those homes. 55 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:41,040 S4: What are you saying? 56 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,240 S5: It's an alternative. This is all the alternate universe of 57 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,639 S5: Murray Watt. It's in the paper today. Murray. There's only 58 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,840 S5: a couple of hundred of tradies that came into Queensland 59 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,480 S5: where they actually are needing to build their houses. You're 60 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,000 S5: not actually bringing in. 61 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,480 S3: People that are helping. I think that you have to 62 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:57,280 S3: hang on. You've got to let. 63 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,080 S5: Me have a say what you've got, what you've. 64 00:02:59,110 --> 00:02:59,230 S2: Got. 65 00:02:59,470 --> 00:03:00,710 S1: So you look like you're having fun. 66 00:03:01,070 --> 00:03:04,149 S2: Yeah, well, it's like, you know, as I said as well, 67 00:03:04,150 --> 00:03:06,430 S2: I like when I played football, I liked to be 68 00:03:06,430 --> 00:03:07,990 S2: on the front row. You know, I liked to be 69 00:03:07,990 --> 00:03:09,950 S2: in the middle of it. And, uh, I feel I 70 00:03:09,950 --> 00:03:11,670 S2: give my best to my nation when I'm playing on 71 00:03:11,669 --> 00:03:14,910 S2: the balls of my toes. Um, and it's just in 72 00:03:14,910 --> 00:03:17,830 S2: my nature to to sit in the back corner. It 73 00:03:17,830 --> 00:03:20,070 S2: frustrates me because we only got one life. This is not. 74 00:03:20,110 --> 00:03:22,550 S2: This is not a dress rehearsal. This is it. And 75 00:03:22,550 --> 00:03:24,550 S2: so if you got an opportunity to do the very 76 00:03:24,550 --> 00:03:27,430 S2: best you can, you find your place. The position that 77 00:03:27,430 --> 00:03:29,590 S2: you can play your best game. And that's precisely what 78 00:03:29,590 --> 00:03:29,910 S2: I'm doing. 79 00:03:29,950 --> 00:03:33,590 S1: You've been the Deputy Prime Minister three times. 3 or 2? 80 00:03:33,630 --> 00:03:36,150 S2: Three. I remember either side of the section 44 case. 81 00:03:36,190 --> 00:03:39,470 S1: Congratulations on the third one, which I was unaware of. You. 82 00:03:39,790 --> 00:03:42,510 S1: You've had a big career. Yep. Giant in the National Party? 83 00:03:42,550 --> 00:03:43,030 S2: Yep. 84 00:03:43,270 --> 00:03:47,710 S1: You've taken a huge step. That's, uh, prompted accusations of 85 00:03:47,750 --> 00:03:50,950 S1: your being a rat being disloyal. Uh, all of which 86 00:03:50,990 --> 00:03:53,390 S1: are credible allegations in some ways, if you're a national. 87 00:03:53,430 --> 00:03:53,670 S2: Yeah. 88 00:03:53,670 --> 00:03:57,150 S1: Well, what's what's what's driving you? Well, what makes you 89 00:03:57,150 --> 00:03:58,250 S1: get up in the morning? Want to be an at. 90 00:03:58,570 --> 00:04:01,530 S2: Let's look at those allegations. First of all, I think 91 00:04:01,530 --> 00:04:04,370 S2: nobody can deny that. They did say generational change. They 92 00:04:04,370 --> 00:04:06,010 S2: wanted me to leave. That's correct. 93 00:04:06,010 --> 00:04:07,930 S1: That happens to older MPs who've had their guy. 94 00:04:07,970 --> 00:04:09,170 S2: But they did say that for me. 95 00:04:09,210 --> 00:04:10,730 S1: They did. But what's wrong about me? 96 00:04:11,090 --> 00:04:12,490 S2: Well, saying they want you to go. 97 00:04:12,770 --> 00:04:13,770 S1: But you've had your time. 98 00:04:14,250 --> 00:04:16,529 S2: Well, obviously I haven't. That's not what the Australian people think. 99 00:04:16,529 --> 00:04:19,210 S1: Is it because of the polls this week? Of course. 100 00:04:19,250 --> 00:04:22,050 S1: Let's go into the polls, resolve. Our poll has you 101 00:04:22,050 --> 00:04:22,490 S1: at 18. 102 00:04:22,890 --> 00:04:25,770 S2: It's such a negative, horrible thing. You've had your time. 103 00:04:25,810 --> 00:04:27,089 S2: I mean, you know. 104 00:04:27,130 --> 00:04:28,690 S1: That's how your colleagues say I'm reflecting. 105 00:04:29,089 --> 00:04:31,730 S2: That. Well, they're wrong. I mean, it's obvious it's a 106 00:04:31,730 --> 00:04:34,610 S2: very that is a selfish thing to wander around and 107 00:04:34,610 --> 00:04:36,810 S2: say to someone who's 58, oh, you've had your time. 108 00:04:37,370 --> 00:04:40,529 S2: It's is that that's kind of rude, don't you think? 109 00:04:40,570 --> 00:04:41,730 S2: Just a little bit rude. 110 00:04:41,770 --> 00:04:44,330 S1: Well, the polls point in your favour, so resolve. Our 111 00:04:44,330 --> 00:04:47,610 S1: poll this week has One nation, 18%. The Newspoll in 112 00:04:47,610 --> 00:04:50,810 S1: The Australian. A highly watched poll has you at 22, 113 00:04:50,850 --> 00:04:53,930 S1: which is 11. over the coalition first time in history. 114 00:04:54,250 --> 00:04:56,529 S1: It's not clear yet how much of that is solid 115 00:04:56,529 --> 00:04:58,870 S1: and permanent, and how much is a protest vote early 116 00:04:58,870 --> 00:05:01,589 S1: in the term against a broken liberal party? Tough economy. 117 00:05:01,630 --> 00:05:03,790 S1: People are feeling disaffected and, to a lesser extent, maybe 118 00:05:03,790 --> 00:05:06,070 S1: now a government that's losing some pain. What do you 119 00:05:06,070 --> 00:05:08,870 S1: think is driving the One Nation vote? Where is this 120 00:05:08,870 --> 00:05:10,230 S1: coming from? Because it happened before. 121 00:05:10,230 --> 00:05:12,310 S2: I looked on the fact that you've got some colleagues 122 00:05:12,350 --> 00:05:14,310 S2: said you've had your time, you've got to go, but 123 00:05:14,310 --> 00:05:14,910 S2: let's move that. 124 00:05:14,910 --> 00:05:16,789 S1: Let's make the deputy prime minister three times. 125 00:05:16,830 --> 00:05:20,150 S2: You can't do that. Obviously, that is such a the 126 00:05:20,190 --> 00:05:23,710 S2: worst reason of all to give to people. I think 127 00:05:23,710 --> 00:05:26,589 S2: what's happened, I think the polls are an indicator, not 128 00:05:26,630 --> 00:05:28,510 S2: locked in vote. Okay. I'm not naive. I've been around 129 00:05:28,510 --> 00:05:31,670 S2: this game for a fair while, but they are an indicator. 130 00:05:31,710 --> 00:05:34,109 S2: They're 100% an indicator. And what it says is people 131 00:05:34,110 --> 00:05:36,950 S2: are now prepared. They feel they have license to say, 132 00:05:36,950 --> 00:05:40,550 S2: I'm prepared to vote for one nation. We're in the past. Um, 133 00:05:40,550 --> 00:05:43,029 S2: you know, there might have been some hesitancy about that. 134 00:05:43,230 --> 00:05:46,789 S2: I think the complexion and the tenor of One Nation 135 00:05:46,790 --> 00:05:51,390 S2: has changed, and and that's a good thing. And, and 136 00:05:51,390 --> 00:05:53,989 S2: that's giving more people the capacity to say, well, yeah, 137 00:05:54,670 --> 00:05:56,350 S2: you know, implied a company. No, I vote for One 138 00:05:56,350 --> 00:05:58,690 S2: Nation and they don't have to say, I vote for 139 00:05:58,690 --> 00:06:00,530 S2: one nation and then leave the dinner party. Say no. 140 00:06:00,529 --> 00:06:02,330 S2: I vote for one nation. That's my choice. I want 141 00:06:02,330 --> 00:06:05,650 S2: a more deliberate, I want greater clarity. Um, I have 142 00:06:05,650 --> 00:06:09,010 S2: philosophical principles, and I want them abided by with the 143 00:06:09,010 --> 00:06:11,970 S2: politicians that I elect. And if they are not going 144 00:06:11,970 --> 00:06:14,489 S2: to abide by those philosophical principles, then I will find 145 00:06:14,490 --> 00:06:16,330 S2: another politician to vote for. 146 00:06:16,330 --> 00:06:19,570 S1: What's created, that kind of permission structure for one nation. 147 00:06:19,610 --> 00:06:20,290 S5: Yeah, there's. 148 00:06:20,330 --> 00:06:24,490 S2: Sort of a, well, a conceit that the, the major parties, 149 00:06:24,490 --> 00:06:26,690 S2: the major blocs believed that they owned the votes. They 150 00:06:26,690 --> 00:06:29,010 S2: didn't have to earn the votes, they owned the votes. 151 00:06:29,490 --> 00:06:31,609 S2: And people would, you know, and they'd even say, you know, 152 00:06:31,650 --> 00:06:34,570 S2: you'll always be a you'll only be a protest party. And, 153 00:06:34,610 --> 00:06:36,650 S2: you know, all these things are sort of, sort of 154 00:06:36,690 --> 00:06:42,210 S2: re-endowed the conceit factor which people who enjoy their liberty 155 00:06:42,210 --> 00:06:45,250 S2: enjoy their freedom, hate being told that we've got you 156 00:06:45,250 --> 00:06:46,730 S2: in a box and you'll only do what we tell 157 00:06:46,730 --> 00:06:49,050 S2: you to. They don't like that. And so people say, 158 00:06:49,089 --> 00:06:51,010 S2: I express my freedom by the car I drive. I 159 00:06:51,010 --> 00:06:53,370 S2: express my freedom with the house I have. I express 160 00:06:53,370 --> 00:06:55,250 S2: my freedom with the clothes and the tie I wear. 161 00:06:55,290 --> 00:06:58,950 S2: And I express my freedom in where I choose to vote. Um, 162 00:06:58,950 --> 00:07:03,190 S2: and I think that, um, what happened is you had 163 00:07:03,230 --> 00:07:08,310 S2: tangential issues and sectional interests that started having too much 164 00:07:08,310 --> 00:07:10,350 S2: sway in the major parties. And I'll give you a 165 00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:12,190 S2: classic one. We've got to win back teal seats. You 166 00:07:12,190 --> 00:07:14,870 S2: must have heard that so many times. I presume at 167 00:07:14,870 --> 00:07:17,790 S2: times even you would have said that, you know, what 168 00:07:17,790 --> 00:07:19,790 S2: are you going to do about winning back TLC? For sure. 169 00:07:19,830 --> 00:07:21,830 S2: That's how you really infuriate people if they're not in 170 00:07:21,830 --> 00:07:25,430 S2: the teal seat, they said. So I am penance and 171 00:07:25,430 --> 00:07:28,710 S2: payment for you to win back that seat. Right? Okay. 172 00:07:28,750 --> 00:07:30,190 S2: You go off and win the teal seat, but I'm 173 00:07:30,230 --> 00:07:33,750 S2: gone by and that's what's happened. And here comes One nation. 174 00:07:34,070 --> 00:07:37,429 S1: Pauline Hanson said yesterday in a press conference that this 175 00:07:37,430 --> 00:07:40,470 S1: term for One Nation is about becoming a viable opposition, 176 00:07:40,470 --> 00:07:42,750 S1: that she wants to form government. You know, some listeners 177 00:07:42,750 --> 00:07:46,110 S1: at home might, might laugh at that suggestion, given her 178 00:07:46,110 --> 00:07:48,550 S1: track record, but many people would have said the same 179 00:07:48,550 --> 00:07:51,150 S1: thing about Nigel Farage, who's now crushing both parties in 180 00:07:51,190 --> 00:07:51,710 S1: the polls. 181 00:07:52,030 --> 00:07:56,970 S2: Milano pan maga movement, Donald Trump. 182 00:07:57,250 --> 00:07:59,810 S1: What do you what do you think the aim is 183 00:07:59,850 --> 00:08:03,210 S1: for one nation? This term is to replace the National party, 184 00:08:03,210 --> 00:08:05,090 S1: to compete with Labour, to hold the balance of power 185 00:08:05,130 --> 00:08:06,410 S1: next term. What are the what are the right. 186 00:08:06,410 --> 00:08:08,570 S2: Not to be defined by? What another party is, is 187 00:08:08,570 --> 00:08:13,090 S2: to have purpose and sort of and philosophical structure and 188 00:08:13,290 --> 00:08:16,610 S2: a sort of a clarity in who you are yourself. 189 00:08:16,770 --> 00:08:19,490 S2: I don't define who I am by saying, now I'm 190 00:08:19,490 --> 00:08:21,370 S2: going to talk about Paul, and now we're going to 191 00:08:21,370 --> 00:08:22,850 S2: work out who I am. Now I'm going to tell 192 00:08:22,850 --> 00:08:24,850 S2: you who I am and who you are as your business. 193 00:08:25,530 --> 00:08:28,210 S2: And so I think that one nation doesn't have to 194 00:08:28,250 --> 00:08:32,130 S2: go chasing or removing or replacing. It just has got 195 00:08:32,130 --> 00:08:34,370 S2: to define what it believes in itself. And other people 196 00:08:34,370 --> 00:08:36,250 S2: will make the choice. You have to earn the votes. 197 00:08:36,250 --> 00:08:39,570 S2: You don't own the votes. And what do they believe? 198 00:08:39,570 --> 00:08:41,610 S2: And they believe in a clarity of view that says, 199 00:08:42,050 --> 00:08:44,970 S2: for instance, on issues such as intermittent power that is garbage, 200 00:08:44,970 --> 00:08:47,930 S2: that the primary purpose of a power policy is to 201 00:08:47,929 --> 00:08:51,130 S2: look after pensioners and poor people, not look after the, 202 00:08:51,170 --> 00:08:54,569 S2: you know, the the nuances of Paris agreements and such 203 00:08:54,610 --> 00:08:58,760 S2: other things which are unattainable, terribly expensive, and cause massive hurt. 204 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,560 S2: It's to say things as they are, not as you 205 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,120 S2: might wish them to be. The terrorist attack was Islamic fundamentalism, 206 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,680 S2: inspired and under the guise of terrorism, Islamic State. That's 207 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:16,200 S2: how it was. It wasn't radical Anglicanism. It wasn't radical Copts. 208 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:17,040 S2: It wasn't radical. 209 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:18,760 S1: I just want to jump in just super quickly. I 210 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,840 S1: would just say that the government has, at various points, 211 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,120 S1: pointed to radical Islam as the root cause of the 212 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:24,600 S1: terror attacks. 213 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,240 S2: No, they sort of. Well, I know. Okay. We've just 214 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,480 S2: had a piece of legislation we voted for just then 215 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:37,120 S2: that could have been so succinct, so clean, talking about, um, anti-Semitism, 216 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,160 S2: which is the people who really are paying the price 217 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,760 S2: for this. I'm not Jewish, but Jewish people without a 218 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,840 S2: shadow of a doubt, are the ones who are who 219 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,040 S2: are in the focus of the sites of those who 220 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,720 S2: wish them harm. And the ones who predominantly are pursuing 221 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:55,500 S2: that course are radical Islamists. That's these things are two truths, 222 00:09:55,740 --> 00:09:57,900 S2: but people say, I can't say that because, you know. 223 00:09:57,940 --> 00:09:59,459 S2: So we've got to we've got to say it's wider. 224 00:09:59,460 --> 00:10:01,700 S2: We've got to bring in all these other things. You know, 225 00:10:01,740 --> 00:10:09,340 S2: it's Islamophobia. No, it's not, it's, uh, it's whatever. It's, uh, homophobia. 226 00:10:09,380 --> 00:10:12,180 S2: Definitely not. You know, it's a whole range of other things. 227 00:10:12,179 --> 00:10:19,100 S2: It's it's anti-Semitism and it's inspired by Israel. Uh, you know, 228 00:10:19,140 --> 00:10:24,460 S2: it's sort of a jihadist, a form of militant, radical Islam. 229 00:10:24,620 --> 00:10:27,860 S2: That's what it is. And unless you have the courage 230 00:10:27,860 --> 00:10:32,059 S2: to define a problem, you have no credibility or process 231 00:10:32,059 --> 00:10:34,219 S2: on how to fix it and what we've just. And 232 00:10:34,220 --> 00:10:38,660 S2: then now we've got this thing where something as a 233 00:10:38,660 --> 00:10:41,620 S2: backbencher in One Nation, I brought to the attention of 234 00:10:41,620 --> 00:10:45,060 S2: the chamber a fatal flaw in the bill, which they 235 00:10:45,059 --> 00:10:47,500 S2: all then ignored. The floor voted for the bill, and 236 00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:50,339 S2: now they're over in the Senate, recognizing what I'd brought 237 00:10:50,340 --> 00:10:52,060 S2: to their attention and trying to fix it. 238 00:10:52,059 --> 00:10:56,600 S1: The government It strikes me just on your your points 239 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,760 S1: about clarity of message, that something that's driving the One 240 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,080 S1: Nation voters is the simplicity of the rhetoric. Pauline Hanson's 241 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,400 S1: not necessarily the most sophisticated political operator, but you're not 242 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,640 S1: trying to straddle different parts of the political spectrum. You're 243 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,760 S1: speaking very directly to one part of the community, and 244 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,840 S1: the Liberal Party might be looking at different communities. What 245 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,880 S1: are the limits, do you think, on that straight talk, 246 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,480 S1: particularly from your Senate leader or party leader, Pauline Hanson, 247 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,640 S1: in terms of rhetoric that might alienate big chunks of 248 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,360 S1: the community, don't allow you to become a viable opposition. 249 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,560 S1: I mean, the burqa stunt a couple of months ago 250 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,000 S1: that raised up in people's minds, even when she was 251 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,400 S1: polling really well, all of the accusations about racism that 252 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,600 S1: have plagued her career can can she continue on speaking about, 253 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,880 S1: you know, racial anxiety in our community in the same 254 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,360 S1: way she always has? If you want to grow, is 255 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,080 S1: that your job to to kind of civilize one nation? 256 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,880 S2: Well, Pauline is who. 257 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:51,679 S1: Paul, Pauline. 258 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,699 S2: Pauline is who Pauline is. and I am who I am. 259 00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:57,380 S2: And one of the things we've always discussed is I'll 260 00:11:57,380 --> 00:11:59,980 S2: remain who I am and Pauline will remain who she is. 261 00:12:00,020 --> 00:12:02,500 S2: And we actually do get along well and we work together. 262 00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:05,740 S2: There is a chemistry there. And, um, and that's the 263 00:12:05,740 --> 00:12:08,059 S2: way it is, I feel, to be quite frank, a 264 00:12:08,059 --> 00:12:10,700 S2: lot more comfortable now, a lot more liberated now, and 265 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:12,660 S2: a lot more purposeful now than I did sitting in 266 00:12:12,660 --> 00:12:16,260 S2: the back corner of the backbench of the coalition. Um. 267 00:12:16,740 --> 00:12:18,380 S1: But I'm talking about whether you're comfortable with. 268 00:12:18,380 --> 00:12:18,780 S2: With. 269 00:12:18,940 --> 00:12:19,340 S1: One thing. 270 00:12:19,340 --> 00:12:22,780 S2: I think that things evolve over time. And I think 271 00:12:22,820 --> 00:12:27,700 S2: the Pauline Hanson that originally came into Parliament is, um, 272 00:12:28,179 --> 00:12:31,380 S2: has matured immensely from that person to where she is now. 273 00:12:31,380 --> 00:12:33,580 S2: I think. I think everybody would say now that is 274 00:12:33,820 --> 00:12:35,900 S2: a lot more streetwise, a lot more wily. I don't 275 00:12:35,900 --> 00:12:40,740 S2: think she's become less authentic, but she's become more aware. And, um, 276 00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:42,180 S2: and that's, that's a good thing. 277 00:12:42,940 --> 00:12:45,340 S1: If your primary remains where it is now, let's just 278 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:46,459 S1: say hypothetically, it does. 279 00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:48,900 S2: Yeah. That's probably why I'm not going. Yeah. I'm not 280 00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:50,860 S2: I'm not going to start saying that that's, you know, 281 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:54,200 S2: that I'm not getting carried away with this I understand 282 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,560 S2: that is an incredible it's an incredible reflection of people's 283 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,839 S2: willingness to trust. But anybody who says, oh, that's your vote. No, no, no, 284 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,280 S2: the vote comes in an election. 285 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,480 S1: Which is why I think Hanson's claim yesterday that she 286 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,920 S1: wants to come into government was was a bit of overreach. 287 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,880 S1: But even in a low 20s primary vote, if it 288 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,280 S1: remains there, that's extraordinary. 289 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:13,760 S2: Um, I'll tell you what that definitely would mean. It 290 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,920 S2: would definitely mean that any person on the let's call 291 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,200 S2: them what they're supposed to be conservative. The conservative side 292 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,520 S2: will definitely need, um, One Nation support if they've got 293 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,120 S2: any chance whatsoever of going to see the governor general 294 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,160 S2: to be the Prime Minister. 295 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:26,520 S1: Well, this is the point I was going to make. 296 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,840 S1: So at a low 20s primary vote, given labor will 297 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,000 S1: preference coalition ahead of One Nation if they stick with 298 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,040 S1: their standard across the country. 299 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,480 S2: Even on that. Let's just slow down on that one, 300 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,520 S2: because I do talk to Labor Party people as well. 301 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,960 S2: You know, let's the world's changed, right? Let's just say 302 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,080 S2: the world's changed there. Remember there are marginal Labor Party 303 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,199 S2: seats too. So thinking that you completely own the vote 304 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:52,950 S2: is a dangerous place to be. 305 00:13:54,110 --> 00:13:57,189 S1: So if you remain at that level, which you in 306 00:13:57,190 --> 00:14:00,150 S1: all likelihood won't, you probably won't win any lower house 307 00:14:00,150 --> 00:14:03,670 S1: seats because of the preference situation. But if you remain 308 00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:06,550 S1: anywhere near that level, you almost you go a long 309 00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:08,470 S1: way to wiping out the coalition in the Senate, because 310 00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:10,070 S1: to win a number two spot in most states, you 311 00:14:10,070 --> 00:14:14,270 S1: need your primary vote up above 2,829%. So I wonder 312 00:14:14,270 --> 00:14:15,949 S1: where will you where do you feel like at this 313 00:14:15,950 --> 00:14:18,590 S1: point in the cycle, which is early, I acknowledge where 314 00:14:18,590 --> 00:14:21,870 S1: do you think you'll be spending your electoral energy? Will 315 00:14:21,870 --> 00:14:24,670 S1: it be in lower house seats, Senate seats? Where can 316 00:14:24,670 --> 00:14:25,070 S1: you win? 317 00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:26,950 S2: No, I definitely think the lower house seats to win. 318 00:14:26,950 --> 00:14:31,350 S2: I think it's just look, well, I'm trying to work 319 00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:34,390 S2: out the I know I'm trying to work out whether 320 00:14:34,390 --> 00:14:36,870 S2: it's worthwhile saying it because then it says you're not. 321 00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:39,750 S2: Why do I not select ones? Because it says you're 322 00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:42,710 S2: not nominating others, right? But let's talk about where one 323 00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:44,990 S2: nation has a strong vote in the Hunter Valley, okay. 324 00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:46,910 S2: And the funny thing about that is you're dragging votes 325 00:14:46,910 --> 00:14:49,950 S2: from the Labour Party, not the coalition. Um, and places 326 00:14:49,950 --> 00:14:52,970 S2: like Blair. Same deal. It's your dragon votes from the 327 00:14:52,970 --> 00:14:55,810 S2: Labour Party, not from the coalition. Ah, new England will 328 00:14:55,810 --> 00:14:58,530 S2: have a strong one nation vote. How do I know that? 329 00:14:58,690 --> 00:15:02,010 S2: Before I'd even announced or told anybody I was leaving 330 00:15:02,330 --> 00:15:05,370 S2: to join my nation. The vast majority of my town 331 00:15:05,370 --> 00:15:07,650 S2: was branch, unbeknownst to me, had walked out and started 332 00:15:07,650 --> 00:15:10,970 S2: the One Nation branch. And so it's organic. It was 333 00:15:10,970 --> 00:15:13,690 S2: happening everywhere. And when I walk around New England now, 334 00:15:13,690 --> 00:15:18,250 S2: you get people literally like, it's really, um, humbling. You 335 00:15:18,250 --> 00:15:20,810 S2: walk in and they start clapping. It's a, there's a 336 00:15:20,810 --> 00:15:23,290 S2: real sort of sense of frustration out there in the 337 00:15:23,290 --> 00:15:27,290 S2: community with politics, and they want to see some clarity. 338 00:15:27,570 --> 00:15:29,330 S2: The Bondi thing had a lot to do with it, 339 00:15:29,330 --> 00:15:30,290 S2: a lot to do with it. 340 00:15:30,330 --> 00:15:32,410 S1: Do you think that's changed politics in this country? 341 00:15:32,450 --> 00:15:36,370 S2: Yep. You bet. Because it wasn't. It's yeah, anti-Semitic was 342 00:15:36,410 --> 00:15:38,170 S2: absolutely a big part of it. But there was also 343 00:15:38,170 --> 00:15:40,610 S2: a lot of people just fell to front like. So 344 00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:44,970 S2: two people went and like, had a turkey shoot on 345 00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:47,810 S2: Australian people on a beach on a Sunday in the 346 00:15:47,810 --> 00:15:53,310 S2: middle of Sydney. And they just went. Wow. That's that's 347 00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:56,950 S2: that's that's not bad. And all of a sudden and 348 00:15:56,950 --> 00:15:59,950 S2: they haven't got over it. They're still in their forefront 349 00:15:59,950 --> 00:16:02,990 S2: of their mind like okay, you know, you think we've 350 00:16:03,190 --> 00:16:05,830 S2: you found our tipping point. You've got there. You've reached it. 351 00:16:05,830 --> 00:16:09,550 S2: And we're going to demand. Demand that that does not 352 00:16:09,550 --> 00:16:12,030 S2: happen again. And we are going to we want you 353 00:16:12,030 --> 00:16:14,950 S2: to be brave enough to define the problem and deal 354 00:16:14,950 --> 00:16:15,310 S2: with it. 355 00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:21,430 S1: Has it changed the way. A a white politician can 356 00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:24,630 S1: talk about multiculturalism in the mainstream of Australian politics in 357 00:16:24,630 --> 00:16:26,150 S1: the same way as The Voice changed the way you 358 00:16:26,150 --> 00:16:28,270 S1: were able to talk about indigenous affairs, arguably to the 359 00:16:28,270 --> 00:16:29,870 S1: detriment of Indigenous Australians? 360 00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:32,590 S2: I don't know. Well, okay, I disagree with you on 361 00:16:32,630 --> 00:16:34,510 S2: you know, I disagree with you fervently that. 362 00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:35,190 S1: Arguably. 363 00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:38,990 S2: Argue. Yeah. Well, whatever the in my area, I get 364 00:16:38,990 --> 00:16:40,910 S2: the majority of the Aboriginal vote in in my area 365 00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:43,070 S2: they call themselves Aboriginals and I grew up in a 366 00:16:43,070 --> 00:16:44,830 S2: black white town. I know it very, very well. My 367 00:16:44,830 --> 00:16:46,990 S2: kids go to a black white school. They go to 368 00:16:46,990 --> 00:16:48,950 S2: a local state school, and it's one of the poorest 369 00:16:48,950 --> 00:16:52,890 S2: schools in New South Wales. Um, so I don't talk. 370 00:16:52,930 --> 00:16:55,490 S2: I'm not Aboriginal. Of course I'm a white fella. Um, 371 00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:58,490 S2: but I do speak with some authority, as I know 372 00:16:58,490 --> 00:17:00,890 S2: it vastly better than most people. And I can assure you, 373 00:17:00,930 --> 00:17:02,930 S2: there are areas around me in one of my biggest 374 00:17:02,930 --> 00:17:07,770 S2: Aboriginal communities, Tinga, only 15% voted for the voice. It 375 00:17:07,770 --> 00:17:11,090 S2: was a belief more of to, to be quite frank, 376 00:17:11,690 --> 00:17:14,210 S2: of maybe where you reside, that you had a perception 377 00:17:14,210 --> 00:17:16,450 S2: of how we saw things, which was not the reality 378 00:17:16,450 --> 00:17:18,810 S2: of how we did for them. They they saw through 379 00:17:19,010 --> 00:17:23,929 S2: the parochialism of certain people in certain, uh, you know, 380 00:17:24,410 --> 00:17:28,530 S2: positions would get a further laurel and a further crown 381 00:17:28,530 --> 00:17:31,090 S2: and get a further pay cheque, and their lives would 382 00:17:31,090 --> 00:17:35,290 S2: remain basically where they were. So, um, now to to 383 00:17:35,330 --> 00:17:37,770 S2: go on to the next issue, uh, where you say, 384 00:17:37,810 --> 00:17:39,810 S2: does this give us authority to talk about racial? I 385 00:17:39,810 --> 00:17:42,609 S2: don't find that the people who come up to me 386 00:17:42,609 --> 00:17:48,689 S2: are all white Caucasians from Mossman who are really saying, 387 00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:52,909 S2: rah rah, one nation. Actually, to the contrary. That's probably 388 00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:55,909 S2: where I'd find the most pushback. Where I find a 389 00:17:55,910 --> 00:17:59,430 S2: lot of support is in the Filipino community, uh, in 390 00:17:59,470 --> 00:18:04,230 S2: the Indian community, um, in certainly in sections of the 391 00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:09,190 S2: Lebanese community, um, there, you know, this is that's it's 392 00:18:09,230 --> 00:18:12,710 S2: another assertion made by people because they want the world. 393 00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:14,470 S2: They want the world to see it the way they 394 00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:16,790 S2: see it from their front veranda, which is not the 395 00:18:16,790 --> 00:18:18,830 S2: way other people see it from theirs. 396 00:18:18,869 --> 00:18:24,350 S1: Or conservative social culture in migrant Australia is definitely something 397 00:18:24,350 --> 00:18:25,389 S1: the progressive side of politics. 398 00:18:25,550 --> 00:18:27,110 S2: If you'd said that, if you frame the question in 399 00:18:27,109 --> 00:18:28,990 S2: that form, I would say you're probably you're correct. 400 00:18:41,150 --> 00:18:43,790 S1: Just going back to your colleagues, uh, I get I 401 00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:46,750 S1: got the sense when you left the show that you 402 00:18:46,750 --> 00:18:49,109 S1: felt that there was a group in the National Party, 403 00:18:49,890 --> 00:18:53,490 S1: probably those aligned to your former boss David Littleproud, who 404 00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:55,330 S1: were happy to see you go and who celebrated it. 405 00:18:55,450 --> 00:18:58,370 S2: No no no no. Not who I felt who were 406 00:18:58,369 --> 00:19:00,050 S2: on television celebrating, remember? 407 00:19:00,090 --> 00:19:03,770 S1: Have you seen the clip of them allegedly hugging? No. 408 00:19:03,770 --> 00:19:05,650 S1: Have you actually seen it? Because there's conjecture about whether 409 00:19:05,650 --> 00:19:05,970 S1: it occurred. 410 00:19:06,010 --> 00:19:07,090 S2: It happened right in front of me. 411 00:19:07,410 --> 00:19:08,010 S1: So you saw it? 412 00:19:08,050 --> 00:19:09,609 S2: Yeah, I was I was in the chamber. 413 00:19:09,770 --> 00:19:11,050 S1: Explain to listeners what you heard. 414 00:19:11,090 --> 00:19:14,729 S2: I was just shaking hands and slapping each other on 415 00:19:14,730 --> 00:19:17,250 S2: the back. And, you know, the wicked, the wicked wizards 416 00:19:17,250 --> 00:19:19,130 S2: dead and sort of thing. That's fine. 417 00:19:19,130 --> 00:19:19,810 S1: And who were they? 418 00:19:20,130 --> 00:19:25,490 S2: Well, I'll let them talk about themselves. Right. But it's 419 00:19:25,850 --> 00:19:28,210 S2: I just find it becomes sort of like. But it's 420 00:19:28,210 --> 00:19:30,169 S2: not like it's kind of. It sort of happened. It 421 00:19:30,170 --> 00:19:31,690 S2: did happen. It happened right in front of me. 422 00:19:32,050 --> 00:19:35,090 S1: Well, there's a lot of chatter around the National Party 423 00:19:35,090 --> 00:19:37,730 S1: that you will personally campaign in the lower house seats 424 00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:42,929 S1: of Darren Chester, David Littleproud, Pat Monahan to I'm not 425 00:19:42,930 --> 00:19:44,770 S1: going to say it's revenge. I don't want to put 426 00:19:44,770 --> 00:19:47,409 S1: that motive on you, but is that something you intend 427 00:19:47,410 --> 00:19:47,770 S1: to do? 428 00:19:48,130 --> 00:19:52,200 S2: Um, I'm certainly going to campaign for, uh, the New 429 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,080 S2: South Wales Senate seat. Um, definitely. And that means after 430 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,320 S2: campaign where the the voters of New South Wales are because, 431 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,120 S2: you know, that's the seat I'm standing for. Um, I'll 432 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,200 S2: do other jobs as required. But there's I, I'm going 433 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,000 S2: I'm going to campaign on issues, not on people. Okay. 434 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,760 S2: I'm going to campaign on issues, not on people. So 435 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:13,800 S2: to give more clarity to that, I have absolutely no 436 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,000 S2: plan to pick on a certain area or a certain person. 437 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,280 S2: There is nothing in that remit. Um, if if you're 438 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,960 S2: going through an area, then you're going through an area 439 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,920 S2: on a policy issue, you're really minimising yourself. You say, 440 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,760 S2: If I'm going to campaign against a person, person A, 441 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,639 S2: then why didn't this go stand in their lower house seat, mate, 442 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,440 S2: if that's all you got worried about, go Senate seat 443 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:35,000 S2: against them. 444 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,720 S1: Well if you if you if your party truly believe 445 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,640 S1: that you're an alternative government, you probably would have stood 446 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,000 S1: in New England again rather than running for the Senate. 447 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,080 S2: Um, yeah. Look, it's, uh. 448 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,179 S1: Why didn't you do that when I. 449 00:20:48,740 --> 00:20:51,020 S2: I look, when I left the National Party, I was 450 00:20:51,020 --> 00:20:52,780 S2: really torn. It was like leaving a it was like 451 00:20:52,780 --> 00:20:56,540 S2: leaving a marriage. It really tears you to pieces. And 452 00:20:56,740 --> 00:21:00,300 S2: I just, I knew the I knew the political marriage 453 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:04,820 S2: was over, I knew I was out. Um, and I just, 454 00:21:04,980 --> 00:21:06,859 S2: I just didn't want to go to court over the. 455 00:21:07,220 --> 00:21:09,659 S2: I just said basically the house, the jewelry, the. It's 456 00:21:09,660 --> 00:21:11,940 S2: all yours. Okay. I'm. I'm gone. 457 00:21:11,980 --> 00:21:13,340 S1: And there would have been a sense that there was 458 00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:15,179 S1: an illegitimacy about rating. 459 00:21:15,180 --> 00:21:17,420 S2: Basically they say, well, look, there's a seat. Yeah. And 460 00:21:17,420 --> 00:21:19,660 S2: also knowing that I brought in a heap of money 461 00:21:19,660 --> 00:21:20,860 S2: which I left in their account. 462 00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:23,660 S1: Do you could you reconsider that and run in New England? 463 00:21:23,820 --> 00:21:27,060 S2: Uh. It's not. Look, I've said I'm standing for the Senate, 464 00:21:27,060 --> 00:21:30,260 S2: and I just I just I'm just going to focus 465 00:21:30,260 --> 00:21:31,340 S2: on the Senate. Like, you know. 466 00:21:31,380 --> 00:21:33,419 S1: But you seem like you're conflicted about this. 467 00:21:33,619 --> 00:21:37,780 S2: No, I just think that I want. Okay. My confliction 468 00:21:37,780 --> 00:21:43,100 S2: is I certainly want the the the one nation to 469 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:45,740 S2: have good lower house candidates. Right. 470 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:48,159 S1: And they struggle with quality candidates. 471 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,639 S2: And I don't want to, you know, I don't want 472 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,160 S2: to send a message out on the water. The only 473 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,440 S2: way you're ever going to get anywhere in one nation 474 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,639 S2: is to be in the Senate. I want people to 475 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,000 S2: move on from that. And I'm going to say, I 476 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,919 S2: want you to understand you can get somewhere in the 477 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,480 S2: House of Representatives as well. And so I don't want 478 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,240 S2: to sort of harp on. Well, you know, it'd sort 479 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,440 S2: of be like, oh, I'll be fine in the Senate because, 480 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,320 S2: you know, I've gone well, but you just jump over the, 481 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,000 S2: you know, jump out of the trenches in the lower 482 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,520 S2: house and get shot. 483 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,480 S1: So any chance you go in New England? 484 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,320 S2: No, no I haven't. I've made I've made my I 485 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,120 S2: made my mind up to stand for the for the 486 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:26,160 S2: for the Senate. 487 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,199 S1: Yeah. I think you probably underestimated what the primary vote 488 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:29,480 S1: would be in polling though, right? 489 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,119 S2: Even I thought that wasn't going to be as good 490 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,560 S2: as what it was, but it's, um. And I'm usually 491 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,320 S2: but it's that's, you know, that's a reflection, a great 492 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,960 S2: reflection on Pauline, a great reflection on the One Nation team, 493 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,440 S2: but it's also a reflection on the malaise that people 494 00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:49,540 S2: see in what the alternative is. 495 00:22:49,580 --> 00:22:52,340 S1: I've heard people say that when Pauline Hanson goes off 496 00:22:52,340 --> 00:22:54,900 S1: TV for a few weeks, the One Nation primary rises, 497 00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:56,700 S1: so it might be have the opposite effect. 498 00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:59,300 S2: Well, that would make us the government. 499 00:23:01,340 --> 00:23:04,500 S1: So you talked about political marriages? Yeah. Um, do you 500 00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:06,820 S1: think it'd be fair to say that Ron Boswell, who 501 00:23:06,820 --> 00:23:09,260 S1: just passed away, was in some way a political father? 502 00:23:09,420 --> 00:23:13,380 S2: He's a great man. And he heard, like Ron saw 503 00:23:13,380 --> 00:23:19,859 S2: everything through. I've known Ron since 2002, been multiple campaigns 504 00:23:19,859 --> 00:23:22,940 S2: with him. Ron saw things through those eyes of that time. 505 00:23:23,859 --> 00:23:25,260 S1: Well, you were getting ahead of my question. 506 00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:25,780 S2: Yeah. 507 00:23:26,260 --> 00:23:28,619 S1: So for listeners at home, particularly for those who are 508 00:23:28,619 --> 00:23:30,419 S1: not from Queensland, who may not know Ron Boswell, he 509 00:23:30,420 --> 00:23:32,460 S1: was the national Senate leader for a long time. 510 00:23:32,500 --> 00:23:32,859 S2: 17. 511 00:23:32,859 --> 00:23:35,219 S1: Years really influential thinker in the National Party, died at 512 00:23:35,220 --> 00:23:36,260 S1: the age of 85 last. 513 00:23:36,260 --> 00:23:37,020 S2: Week, 31 years in. 514 00:23:37,020 --> 00:23:39,580 S1: Politics. Prime Minister attended his funeral, as did Peter Dutton 515 00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:42,220 S1: and Barnaby Joyce. I want to read to him to 516 00:23:42,220 --> 00:23:44,460 S1: you a quote from his Australian article from December. Do 517 00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:45,060 S1: you mind if I do that? 518 00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:46,720 S2: It wouldn't be endearing to me, but here we go. 519 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,840 S1: You've, uh. He been you has left the political home 520 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,119 S1: that raised him, shaped him and supported him. But as 521 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,320 S1: with any family, the door remains open when he remembers 522 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,600 S1: where he truly belongs. His choice does not alter the 523 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,080 S1: truth about one nation. It is not a party of government. 524 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,960 S1: It has no record of delivery. It fuels resentment rather 525 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,960 S1: than responsibility, and threatens to fracture the centre right in 526 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,200 S1: a way that benefits only Labour and the Greens. 527 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,119 S2: Yes, I love Ron, okay, and I'm never going to 528 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,800 S2: speak de mortuis nil nisi bonum, as my good Jesuit uh, 529 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,840 S2: friends would remind me of speak nothing but good of 530 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:20,160 S2: the dead. 531 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,959 S1: Go on. The argument's not the man, though. 532 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:27,680 S2: Well, yeah, the arguments are correct if you're talking about, um, history, 533 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,240 S2: but they're not correct as to where we are today. Okay. 534 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,399 S2: Ron's been out of politics now for a fair while, 535 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,560 S2: and he's a he was he is with our Lord. 536 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,040 S2: But and he remains a person I'll always hold in 537 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,440 S2: high esteem. But he doesn't see the politics as we see. 538 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,500 S2: In fact, I was a regular visitor to Ron at 539 00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:52,980 S2: his house, where he would be frustrated and demanding that 540 00:24:52,980 --> 00:24:55,820 S2: I do something about getting rid of net zero. And 541 00:24:55,820 --> 00:24:57,620 S2: I had to lead, and I had to do this, 542 00:24:57,619 --> 00:25:00,420 S2: and I had to do that. And, you know, I did. 543 00:25:00,460 --> 00:25:05,540 S2: I went about constructing a process where the coalition ditched 544 00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:09,380 S2: its net zero commitment, but I kept on explaining to him. 545 00:25:09,380 --> 00:25:11,340 S2: I said, Ron, you've got to understand that's not the 546 00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:13,660 S2: position of the coalition. He goes, oh, well, you've just 547 00:25:13,660 --> 00:25:16,540 S2: got to change it. And I go, well, Ron, you're 548 00:25:16,980 --> 00:25:21,020 S2: you're asking me to change the coalition. I can't just 549 00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:26,100 S2: change the coalition. And and in the end, he was frustrated. 550 00:25:26,140 --> 00:25:29,020 S2: I said, Ron, you know what? I've realized? The changes 551 00:25:29,020 --> 00:25:31,100 S2: that you want, I can only bring about by being 552 00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:34,780 S2: in one nation because they're actually closer to your political 553 00:25:34,820 --> 00:25:39,260 S2: beliefs than where the coalition is. You have you have 554 00:25:39,260 --> 00:25:44,459 S2: this filial connection. It's your totem. You you have a 555 00:25:44,890 --> 00:25:47,690 S2: whole range of affections, even though they went after you. 556 00:25:48,090 --> 00:25:52,450 S2: But if I was to give you complete amnesia about 557 00:25:52,450 --> 00:25:55,210 S2: all your. I didn't say this, but this is me 558 00:25:55,250 --> 00:25:59,130 S2: paraphrasing my discussions. Um, if he was to have total 559 00:25:59,130 --> 00:26:04,129 S2: amnesia about all his past political affiliations, had his philosophy 560 00:26:04,170 --> 00:26:06,090 S2: arrived down here and he said, now, quick, run to 561 00:26:06,090 --> 00:26:10,250 S2: the party that most best, that most closely reflects your 562 00:26:10,250 --> 00:26:12,850 S2: belief structure. Ron Boswell, you'd end up in one nation. 563 00:26:13,250 --> 00:26:16,090 S1: You were in the coalition government, obviously, in very senior roles, 564 00:26:16,090 --> 00:26:19,770 S1: for nine years. Yes. That was the government that, uh, 565 00:26:19,810 --> 00:26:23,130 S1: continued on with the immigration program that's been bipartisan. It 566 00:26:23,170 --> 00:26:26,930 S1: thrust Australia into the global net zero movement. It did 567 00:26:26,930 --> 00:26:30,250 S1: very little to break out of Center-right kind of policy orthodoxy. 568 00:26:30,690 --> 00:26:32,450 S1: Why didn't you change things from inside? 569 00:26:32,490 --> 00:26:35,010 S2: Well, I did try to change things from inside. 570 00:26:35,050 --> 00:26:36,570 S1: And the Deputy Prime Minister, when you signed up to 571 00:26:36,570 --> 00:26:37,050 S1: net zero. 572 00:26:37,090 --> 00:26:38,649 S2: Now everyone brings it up. But can we just go 573 00:26:38,650 --> 00:26:38,970 S2: through that? 574 00:26:39,010 --> 00:26:39,810 S1: Let's not go through the whole. 575 00:26:39,930 --> 00:26:41,850 S2: No no no no no, you you've got to give 576 00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:46,750 S2: me the space to to correct the statement. Okay. 577 00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:47,310 S1: That's quick. 578 00:26:48,109 --> 00:26:52,469 S2: That's better, Mr. Joyce. The. You don't have to say that, but, um, the, uh. 579 00:26:52,510 --> 00:26:56,470 S2: So I've voted within the National Party room against supporting 580 00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:59,270 S2: net zero. After I'd cut the deal from heaven, I 581 00:26:59,310 --> 00:27:01,790 S2: believe it was ridiculous. The things that were getting any 582 00:27:01,790 --> 00:27:03,630 S2: in the end. You know what? We never got any 583 00:27:03,630 --> 00:27:07,230 S2: of them. Because the liberals welshed on the deal. So 584 00:27:07,230 --> 00:27:10,149 S2: why then that's still involved with it in Paris? You 585 00:27:10,190 --> 00:27:13,470 S2: haven't got a deal. There are no bridges, there's no dams, 586 00:27:13,630 --> 00:27:16,750 S2: there's there's none. All the stuff that I bargained for, 587 00:27:17,710 --> 00:27:19,550 S2: some of it they're going forward with. But most of 588 00:27:19,550 --> 00:27:22,230 S2: it they dropped off. So you don't have to honour 589 00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:24,190 S2: anything because they haven't honoured the deal. 590 00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:29,109 S1: Okay. The Australian political system is vastly different to that 591 00:27:29,109 --> 00:27:31,070 S1: of the UK and the US, where you're seeing these 592 00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:36,270 S1: Anglosphere populist rises, how do we know that a one 593 00:27:36,270 --> 00:27:39,710 S1: nation that mimics the US and UK populist movements will 594 00:27:39,710 --> 00:27:40,709 S1: work here? How do we know this? 595 00:27:40,750 --> 00:27:41,670 S2: Well it won't. 596 00:27:41,710 --> 00:27:42,270 S1: Are you confident. 597 00:27:42,350 --> 00:27:44,490 S2: That. No, it won't if it mimics Australia is Australia, 598 00:27:44,490 --> 00:27:45,210 S2: it's a different place. 599 00:27:45,530 --> 00:27:47,730 S1: How do how does One Nation differ from the Farage 600 00:27:47,730 --> 00:27:48,410 S1: MAGA movement? 601 00:27:48,410 --> 00:27:51,930 S2: Are vastly I think that they're Australian. It's very ethos, 602 00:27:51,970 --> 00:27:55,090 S2: it's very nature. I hopefully I'm a reflection of myself. 603 00:27:55,090 --> 00:27:59,170 S2: We're a more egalitarian or easygoing, um, we call BS 604 00:27:59,210 --> 00:28:02,250 S2: on stuff a lot. Even the relationship with the media 605 00:28:02,250 --> 00:28:06,570 S2: is more, um, it's not it's not, you know, it's 606 00:28:06,570 --> 00:28:11,169 S2: not deferential, it's very robust. And, and, uh, and matter 607 00:28:11,170 --> 00:28:14,330 S2: of fact, um, we walk down the street, we don't 608 00:28:14,330 --> 00:28:18,129 S2: have bodyguards. It's a completely different approach in Australia. And 609 00:28:18,130 --> 00:28:20,570 S2: I don't think if you if you start mimicking the 610 00:28:20,570 --> 00:28:24,129 S2: United States of America or for the class system in 611 00:28:24,130 --> 00:28:26,369 S2: England or anything like that, you're going to come unstuck 612 00:28:26,369 --> 00:28:27,650 S2: because you're in the wrong country. 613 00:28:27,810 --> 00:28:30,530 S1: Is there do we do we share the general level 614 00:28:30,530 --> 00:28:34,050 S1: of dissatisfaction, economic malaise, and lack of trust in our 615 00:28:34,050 --> 00:28:35,850 S1: institutions for a movement like this to thrive? 616 00:28:35,890 --> 00:28:37,810 S2: Yeah, I think people where it is that there's a 617 00:28:37,810 --> 00:28:43,010 S2: commonality is people are sick of butterfly chasing crazy ideas 618 00:28:43,630 --> 00:28:47,190 S2: no matter where you are. Paris agreement net zero. Um. 619 00:28:47,790 --> 00:28:50,550 S2: You know, the belief that the whole world is sort of, 620 00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:53,510 S2: sort of a utopian splendor when you've got the rise 621 00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:56,270 S2: of China, which is quite obviously a totalitarian regime, which 622 00:28:56,270 --> 00:28:59,350 S2: is going to rip your throat out. Um, these are, 623 00:28:59,470 --> 00:29:01,550 S2: you know, this is this is the reality. And people 624 00:29:01,550 --> 00:29:04,550 S2: want to hear they know the truth. They want to 625 00:29:04,550 --> 00:29:06,710 S2: hear it from their politicians. They don't want to hear 626 00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:10,630 S2: the politicians sort of pitching and pivoting to a sectional 627 00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:13,390 S2: interest and just thinking that they've got their vote in 628 00:29:13,390 --> 00:29:16,670 S2: their back pocket, that, that that is the commonality across 629 00:29:16,670 --> 00:29:17,150 S2: the world. 630 00:29:17,710 --> 00:29:20,150 S1: I want to ask about Gina Rinehart, and I don't 631 00:29:20,150 --> 00:29:23,390 S1: come at this question from a position of, uh, assuming 632 00:29:23,390 --> 00:29:26,470 S1: that the relationship is inherently corrupt because powerful people. 633 00:29:26,510 --> 00:29:28,350 S2: Means he's assuming the relationship. 634 00:29:28,390 --> 00:29:28,710 S1: Because I. 635 00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:29,070 S2: Know that's. 636 00:29:29,070 --> 00:29:31,070 S1: Corrupt. That is where a lot of the questioning comes from. 637 00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:32,990 S1: A wealthy person has a right to back a movement 638 00:29:32,990 --> 00:29:36,310 S1: that they believe 100%. I firmly believe that. But I 639 00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:39,910 S1: think if you're trying to turn into a more mainstream 640 00:29:39,910 --> 00:29:43,850 S1: political force, it's also fair to ask that that relationship 641 00:29:43,890 --> 00:29:46,130 S1: be explained a little bit more than we understand. 642 00:29:46,210 --> 00:29:49,370 S2: That's interesting, because why don't people explain Simon Holmes, the 643 00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:50,690 S2: court's relationship with the teals? 644 00:29:50,690 --> 00:29:51,410 S1: We think it should be. 645 00:29:51,450 --> 00:29:51,930 S2: Why do we. 646 00:29:51,930 --> 00:29:52,850 S1: Put we put a spotlight. 647 00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:56,370 S2: On it. Why didn't explain, um, Andrew Forrest's relationship with 648 00:29:56,370 --> 00:30:00,010 S2: the Labor Party? I mean, everybody, all people. Just because 649 00:30:00,010 --> 00:30:02,210 S2: they have money doesn't mean they don't have political views. 650 00:30:02,210 --> 00:30:04,610 S2: People do have political views. Andrew Forrest has a strong 651 00:30:04,610 --> 00:30:08,410 S2: political view that's aligned with the Labor Party. Um, Simon Holmes, 652 00:30:08,410 --> 00:30:10,250 S2: a court has a strong political view that's aligned with 653 00:30:10,250 --> 00:30:13,490 S2: the teals. Um, Gina Rinehart has a strong political view. 654 00:30:13,530 --> 00:30:16,450 S2: That's that's not aligned with any party, but it's conservative. 655 00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:17,810 S1: I agree with you, conservative. 656 00:30:17,850 --> 00:30:20,810 S2: And that's that's their right. And you know what? If 657 00:30:20,850 --> 00:30:24,610 S2: you didn't have big backers at times, it makes life very, 658 00:30:24,610 --> 00:30:28,370 S2: very difficult because you ultimately you guys you guys want 659 00:30:28,410 --> 00:30:30,690 S2: advertising revenue. You do. You don't put any of our 660 00:30:30,690 --> 00:30:32,969 S2: ads on for free. You make us pay. And so 661 00:30:32,970 --> 00:30:35,130 S2: we've got to have money to, to, for, for to 662 00:30:35,170 --> 00:30:38,170 S2: be paid. And people aren't we don't change. We are 663 00:30:38,210 --> 00:30:40,890 S2: who we are. People decide to align with us. We 664 00:30:40,890 --> 00:30:44,280 S2: don't go aligned to to them, they align to us. 665 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,640 S2: And many times people also got to have you got 666 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,160 S2: to understand there are times where I'll fervently disagree with 667 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,160 S2: Gina Rinehart. Well, we're not we're not. Just because they 668 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,160 S2: turn up doesn't mean you agree with everything you say. Look, 669 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,360 S2: sorry on that one. I disagree with. 670 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,480 S1: You. I take all your points there. Our newspapers have 671 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,959 S1: long put a spotlight on the relationship between donors and 672 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,920 S1: political parties, and that's left and right. Yeah. The Gina 673 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,120 S1: Rinehart relationship with One Nation is fascinating because she's previously 674 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,840 S1: been a big donor to the LNP. That relationship might have. 675 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,720 S2: Been donated to the Labor Party, too, just quietly. 676 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:12,920 S1: Probably not for a long time. 677 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,280 S2: No, no. You've been go back and check your declarations 678 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,080 S2: and look at Hancock Coles, donate to the Labor Party. 679 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,880 S1: You've been wearing Kidman clothes. She's been providing steak for 680 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,760 S1: your meetings with Pauline Hanson. Has she donated a plane 681 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,880 S1: or are you just using the plane? 682 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,320 S2: She hasn't donated a plane to me. Um, I've used 683 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:28,040 S2: her plane. 684 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,560 S1: She's donated plane to Pauline Hanson. 685 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,200 S2: Yeah. Uh, look, even that I'm talking out of school, 686 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,840 S2: that is. I don't know the answer to that. 687 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:35,960 S1: Is that a recent thing or. 688 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,360 S2: Well, if it is, it's a recent thing, right? But 689 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,540 S2: I certainly have been on her A jet. Now, what 690 00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:44,420 S2: was funny about that is I'm on a jet to 691 00:31:44,460 --> 00:31:46,620 S2: go to Mount Isa. What would you have preferred that 692 00:31:46,620 --> 00:31:48,580 S2: I was on the taxpayer's jet and the taxpayer paid 693 00:31:48,580 --> 00:31:52,900 S2: for it. I mean, what's wrong with an Australian taxpayer 694 00:31:53,180 --> 00:31:56,260 S2: saying rather than use the getting other taxpayers to pay 695 00:31:56,260 --> 00:31:58,420 S2: for this, remember we're going to look at people, visit 696 00:31:58,420 --> 00:32:00,300 S2: people dealing with the flood. This is not going to 697 00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:02,900 S2: a wedding or a funeral or or, you know, a 698 00:32:02,940 --> 00:32:05,260 S2: game of bridge. It's to see people during the flood. 699 00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:09,340 S2: And a person who is blessed with wealth says, rather 700 00:32:09,340 --> 00:32:11,219 S2: than you charge this to the taxpayer, why don't you 701 00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:12,900 S2: use mine and fly up there on that? 702 00:32:12,940 --> 00:32:17,500 S1: What are the limits or potential upsides of the relationship? What? 703 00:32:17,660 --> 00:32:20,020 S1: And also what policies she interested on your side? How 704 00:32:20,060 --> 00:32:20,380 S1: much of. 705 00:32:20,380 --> 00:32:20,540 S2: Your. 706 00:32:21,100 --> 00:32:22,620 S1: Election campaign she'll bankroll? 707 00:32:22,660 --> 00:32:26,420 S2: I think it's really important. I've never been told by 708 00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:29,980 S2: Gina Rinehart to you must do this. You mustn't do anything. 709 00:32:29,980 --> 00:32:33,580 S2: It's always been in conversation. I'll give you a tip. 710 00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:36,100 S2: People who have gone a long way in life and 711 00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:39,420 S2: business are generally not so naive as to start telling 712 00:32:39,420 --> 00:32:43,120 S2: politicians what to do. They'll have discussions. They'll have views. 713 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,960 S2: But they don't have instructions. And I'll have to say 714 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,760 S2: that would be the same with Andrew Forrest. And it 715 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,880 S2: would be, I don't know. I know Simon, but I 716 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,360 S2: don't know Simon as well. Right. But even Andrew Forrest, 717 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,360 S2: he's never that dopiest to tell you how you got 718 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,400 S2: to go. And neither is Gina Rinehart. And, um, if 719 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,400 S2: you do, if you do tell a politician what to do, 720 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,120 S2: they can get themselves in an awful lot of trouble 721 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,560 S2: because you can say, are you trying to affect a 722 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,959 S2: public office? Are you are you offering me something in 723 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,800 S2: a public office to do something? You know, be really 724 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,040 S2: careful or or as has happened? Or are you trying 725 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,120 S2: to get me to remove myself from a public office? 726 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,080 S2: Are you. Did you offer me some money to remove 727 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,280 S2: myself from a public office? Because I think that's punishable 728 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:24,880 S2: by 15 years in jail. I'm pretty sure about that. 729 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:25,920 S2: Commonwealth Crimes Act. 730 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,720 S1: Does been heavily funded by, I think, the richest woman 731 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,800 S1: in Australia. I think that's definitely. 732 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:33,840 S2: Definitely the richest. 733 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,440 S1: Woman in question, whether she's the richest person in Australia. 734 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,160 S1: Does that clash with the idea that One Nation is, um, 735 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:40,220 S1: in it for the battler. 736 00:33:41,020 --> 00:33:44,420 S2: No, no, I think you would find that most people 737 00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:48,780 S2: don't determine their view of your policy by your your friends, 738 00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:51,420 S2: but actually what your policies are. You know, they say, 739 00:33:51,660 --> 00:33:53,820 S2: are you in here to look after pensioners who can't 740 00:33:53,820 --> 00:33:56,700 S2: afford their power bills? Yep. Okay, I like you. Are 741 00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:59,500 S2: you here to make sure that we develop regional Australia? Yep. 742 00:33:59,540 --> 00:34:02,340 S2: I like you. Are you here to make sure that 743 00:34:02,380 --> 00:34:05,740 S2: I don't get murdered if I go to the beach? 744 00:34:06,220 --> 00:34:09,100 S2: I like you. Do I need to know who your 745 00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:11,900 S2: friends are? Not really. Do I need to like you 746 00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:14,660 S2: as a politician? Not really. Do I need to like 747 00:34:14,660 --> 00:34:16,660 S2: the friends of the politician? Not really. 748 00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:19,860 S1: What does 2026 hold? What do you want to prosecute? 749 00:34:19,860 --> 00:34:21,700 S1: And what policies might One Nation release? 750 00:34:21,739 --> 00:34:23,819 S2: Now, this one's going to come from the biggest issue 751 00:34:23,820 --> 00:34:26,660 S2: for 2026 is next year's 2027. Isn't it. 752 00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:27,700 S1: Election year? 753 00:34:27,739 --> 00:34:31,540 S2: No, no. That's when XI Jinping is going to take Taiwan. 754 00:34:32,340 --> 00:34:36,380 S2: Where in the year is that by 2027? We're in 2026. 755 00:34:36,820 --> 00:34:40,319 S2: This world could be about to be turned completely and 756 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,680 S2: utterly upside down. Now let's go away from the horrific 757 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,160 S2: side of a war which, if it's hot and we're 758 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,759 S2: involved with tens of thousands of Australians will die, will 759 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,320 S2: be like the First World War and Second World War. 760 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,399 S2: Please God, pray that it never, ever happens. But let's 761 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:56,640 S2: look at the economic consequences. 762 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,080 S1: Do you think Australia should be involved? 763 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,360 S2: No, just let's hear the economic consequences. Iron ore exports 764 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,240 S2: are finished. Your coal exports are finished. Your gas exports 765 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,160 S2: are finished. Large section. Your beef exports are finished. Your 766 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,759 S2: cotton exports are finished. Your tourism all that's finished. Your 767 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,640 S2: dollar is going to be worth nothing. Nothing. Inflation will 768 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,279 S2: go through the roof. The only way to get any 769 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,480 S2: value back in the dollar is to come some crazy 770 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,240 S2: jack up interest rates as high as they can possibly go. 771 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,879 S2: We will be an economic basket case, and I don't 772 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,239 S2: see anything happening down there that's preparing us for it. 773 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,040 S2: They should have every senior minister and shadow minister on 774 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,820 S2: their pegs saying what their plan is. And you guys 775 00:35:41,860 --> 00:35:44,580 S2: in the Fourth Estate haven't questioned them on that either. 776 00:35:44,780 --> 00:35:46,820 S1: What should we do with military spending? 777 00:35:47,380 --> 00:35:50,060 S2: You've got to you've got to make Australia as powerful 778 00:35:50,060 --> 00:35:52,700 S2: as possible, as quickly as possible. You've got to raise it, 779 00:35:52,700 --> 00:35:54,219 S2: but you can't raise it unless you can pay for 780 00:35:54,219 --> 00:35:55,859 S2: it and you can't pay for it. If you're going 781 00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:59,380 S2: to chase these other crazy butterflies of net zero Paris agreements. 782 00:35:59,420 --> 00:36:01,020 S2: We're not, you know, we're going to you know, we're 783 00:36:01,020 --> 00:36:04,300 S2: not going to build dams. We're you know, we're you 784 00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:08,460 S2: just you opening yourself up to be knocked out cold, 785 00:36:08,620 --> 00:36:12,939 S2: if not militarily, economically. And there is nobody in this 786 00:36:12,940 --> 00:36:15,700 S2: building who seems to be aware of that and preparing 787 00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:17,340 S2: for it. Isn't that funny? You ask me what the 788 00:36:17,340 --> 00:36:20,660 S2: big thing about 2026 was, and I said you'd be surprised. 789 00:36:20,660 --> 00:36:23,580 S2: I was waiting to see if Q2 you'd pick it up. 790 00:36:24,540 --> 00:36:25,939 S2: Even the fourth estate's not on this. 791 00:36:26,420 --> 00:36:30,460 S1: Andrew Hastie is in a similar terrain to Pauline Hanson 792 00:36:30,460 --> 00:36:33,540 S1: and yourself in terms of the issues he's talking about. 793 00:36:33,739 --> 00:36:35,939 S1: If he was to lead the Liberal Party and there's 794 00:36:35,980 --> 00:36:39,810 S1: a significant chance that happening this year. How do you 795 00:36:39,850 --> 00:36:41,170 S1: how do you lead the Liberal Party? 796 00:36:41,290 --> 00:36:41,569 S2: He did. 797 00:36:41,570 --> 00:36:44,290 S1: Leave. No. Um, how do you think that would. What 798 00:36:44,290 --> 00:36:46,410 S1: do you think the dynamic would be between a hasty 799 00:36:46,450 --> 00:36:48,090 S1: led Liberal party and One Nation? 800 00:36:48,130 --> 00:36:51,770 S2: I think that, um, that's to be determined by the voters. 801 00:36:52,370 --> 00:36:56,370 S2: You know, that's. That would be, you know, that's a c. 802 00:36:56,370 --> 00:36:58,009 S2: I really open a can of worms because as soon 803 00:36:58,010 --> 00:36:59,450 S2: as I go into that part, you're going to have, 804 00:36:59,450 --> 00:37:01,170 S2: you know, what about Angus Taylor? What about this? What 805 00:37:01,170 --> 00:37:02,290 S2: about that? What about something else? 806 00:37:02,570 --> 00:37:05,890 S1: I don't think Taylor is is, um, in the same 807 00:37:05,890 --> 00:37:07,610 S1: part of the political spectrum as you. 808 00:37:07,650 --> 00:37:11,529 S2: I let's see, let's see. Let's see what happens. I 809 00:37:11,690 --> 00:37:14,170 S2: do want the best for my nation. And going back 810 00:37:14,170 --> 00:37:17,410 S2: to your previous question is why? If we get this 811 00:37:17,410 --> 00:37:22,290 S2: wrong in 2026, we get this wrong. We have done 812 00:37:22,290 --> 00:37:27,890 S2: something really evil because we've really we've had this incredible gift, 813 00:37:27,890 --> 00:37:32,529 S2: which is Australia, and we just blew it. And when 814 00:37:32,530 --> 00:37:35,690 S2: you say, oh, that's excessive. No, it's not either. XI 815 00:37:35,690 --> 00:37:39,550 S2: Jinping is a joker having a little pulling our leg, 816 00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:42,430 S2: a bit of a bullshit artist, or he's a man 817 00:37:42,430 --> 00:37:44,589 S2: who's telling the truth. And if he's a man who's 818 00:37:44,590 --> 00:37:47,430 S2: telling the truth, we've got a big, big problem coming 819 00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:47,830 S2: our way. 820 00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:49,910 S1: Barnaby, thank you for joining us. 821 00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:51,030 S2: You're welcome. 822 00:38:00,070 --> 00:38:02,270 S1: You can read this story and all our political news 823 00:38:02,270 --> 00:38:08,270 S1: on our websites, theage.com.au or the Smh.com.au. Today's episode was 824 00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:11,430 S1: produced by Kai Wong with help from Debbie Harrington. Our 825 00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:14,390 S1: executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen 826 00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:17,470 S1: by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. And if you're wondering 827 00:38:17,469 --> 00:38:20,149 S1: where our esteemed host, Jacqueline Maley, is, she'll be back 828 00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:23,910 S1: next week. Before you go, follow Inside Politics and leave 829 00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:26,710 S1: a review for us on Apple or Spotify. I'm Paul Circle, 830 00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:27,670 S1: and thank you for listening.