Speaker 1: Nine podcasts.
Speaker 2: Now, I don't think I've gone a bit silly here,
Speaker 2: but I'll talk about ghosts, things supernatural, out of body experiences,
Speaker 2: people coming back from the dead, consciousness beyond the body. Now,
Speaker 2: the media cliche says I should be playing spooky music here,
Speaker 2: or even the Ghostbusters theme, but I think that is
Speaker 2: an annoying cliche. Of course the skepticism about this topic.
Speaker 2: Poles show that as many as twenty percent of people
Speaker 2: say they've seen a ghost, but almost half the population,
Speaker 2: according to Saint Pole, are willing to believe ghosts exist.
Speaker 2: So those silly music tricks, in my view, demean my guest.
Speaker 2: He's a neuroscientist, a parapsychologist. He was president of the
Speaker 2: Australian Institute of Parapsychological Research. He teaches at Swinburne University.
Speaker 2: He has analyzed many reported sightings of things that can't
Speaker 2: be explained. He's sent a few things himself that can't
Speaker 2: be explained. Dr Vladimir Dubai, thank you for coming to
Speaker 2: see us. Thank you. I've done a snappole of my
Speaker 2: cynical work, colleagues, and as you'd well know, there's nobody
Speaker 2: more cynical and media people, and I thought they'd be
Speaker 2: mocking me for talking to you and for even exploring
Speaker 2: the area. I was surprised to him, and you went
Speaker 2: quiet and said, I'm not really sure what's going on there.
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure what's happening. We have a look
Speaker 2: at a few cases that have been raised, and then
Speaker 2: I'd like to get into some of your own detail
Speaker 2: and everything. One of our staff, the head of football, Luca,
Speaker 2: describes a case he's working the Carlton Footy Club nine
Speaker 2: years ago at night, late at night, He's walked down
Speaker 2: to the player's gym, which works. The lights in the
Speaker 2: gym work on a sensor light and it starts. There's
Speaker 2: nobody in there. He walks in, lights come on just
Speaker 2: in time to see a man he describes as wearing
Speaker 2: a trench coat and a hat disappearing through a walk. Says,
Speaker 2: I thought I'd be frightened, but I was calm when
Speaker 2: it happened. What would you do about that?
Speaker 1: I'd probably turn around and walk out the other way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is surprising how common these things are reported, and
Speaker 1: a lot of the time the person just it's definitely
Speaker 1: clearly unnatural or unexplainable, but it feels normal. So you're
Speaker 1: just seeing something occur and you're kind of still processing
Speaker 1: it in your mind.
Speaker 2: So he's not frightened at all. He's just as the
Speaker 2: guy walks through the wall.
Speaker 1: I think when it turns frightening is if it's in
Speaker 1: your own home home, because I got a lot of
Speaker 1: people approaching me saying something in the house and it's
Speaker 1: really affecting their ability to sleep, and you know, just
Speaker 1: live live in the property. But yeah, and certainly in
Speaker 1: that case, there have been lots of reports of ghosts
Speaker 1: or entities that seem to keep executing their own little
Speaker 1: paths after they've deceased. So even if even if the
Speaker 1: building changes, for example, doors are no longer where they
Speaker 1: should be, they put a wall in its place, the
Speaker 1: figure will still kind of walk through the wall.
Speaker 2: So what would you do if you wanted to investigate
Speaker 2: this case? Where would you start? How would you do it?
Speaker 1: Well? When I started, I went into it with a
Speaker 1: mindset of we're assuming something's occurring. There's enough people discussing
Speaker 1: the phenomena, so let's assume something is occurring that we
Speaker 1: don't fully understand. To do that, we need to understand
Speaker 1: or get an idea of how it physically interacts with
Speaker 1: the physical world. So in terms of physics, how does
Speaker 1: it manifest itself on a level where we can see it,
Speaker 1: we can feel that, we can feel the temperature changes
Speaker 1: and so on. So the idea is, let's go to
Speaker 1: the location where there's a lot of activity occurring and
Speaker 1: flooded with as much equipment as possible. That is, look
Speaker 1: at as much of the energy spectrum as we can.
Speaker 1: So we might go in that with temperature sensors, thermal
Speaker 1: imaging cameras to measure temperature fluctuations, sound video, infrared, ultra
Speaker 1: violet cameras if possible, all the way up to the
Speaker 1: high energy, which is which is you know, the X
Speaker 1: rays and radiation and so on. I've heard people actually
Speaker 1: use Geiger counters in their investigations as well. So the
Speaker 1: idea behind it is that if something does manifest, we
Speaker 1: might pick it up on a couple of different instruments.
Speaker 1: So for example, a lot of people report temperature drops
Speaker 1: where and all of a sudden gets really cold in
Speaker 1: one little spot, So that might be an indication that
Speaker 1: whatever is coming through, assuming that it's real, is somehow
Speaker 1: using the energy absorbing the vibration of the molecules themselves,
Speaker 1: which causes the temperature to drop in order for them
Speaker 1: to manifest themselves.
Speaker 2: Can you see I assume most of the cases you
Speaker 2: look at there's an explanation they're not actually ghosts. Well,
Speaker 2: how in a case like this, can you see an
Speaker 2: explanation off the top?
Speaker 1: Can I see an explanation? When I started this, I
Speaker 1: was I had a much much stricter protocol in that
Speaker 1: if only one person witnesses it, we can't accept it
Speaker 1: as evidence. It has to be seen by two individuals
Speaker 1: or recorded by equipment and some one. Over time, I
Speaker 1: realized that that was actually pretty strict, stringent sort of
Speaker 1: rules which skeptics might still adhere to. I've kind of
Speaker 1: relaxed that because I've now realized that people do actually
Speaker 1: witness things, even though they can't necessarily prove it, so
Speaker 1: to speak. So in this case, I'm depending on the
Speaker 1: credibility of the individual who's who's experiencing the phenomena, and
Speaker 1: he's credible.
Speaker 2: But he's credible he believes he saw it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I can't. I can't dismiss it. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a range of psychological interpretations and explanations for it.
Speaker 1: Which a hardline skeptic will dismiss it, saying it's purely
Speaker 1: FIGNI very imagination, over active mind someone and someone which
Speaker 1: it could be absolutely absolutely sorry. The interesting bit is
Speaker 1: if you find over time, multiple people see the same
Speaker 1: thing over a period of months or years, which for
Speaker 1: example the port Arthur O case, the paper that I published,
Speaker 1: looked at that there were I'd like hundreds of people.
Speaker 2: I've read that paper. I almost understand it. I'd like
Speaker 2: to talk about that later. There's another case I like
Speaker 2: to raise. And this man is credibly he's a chair
Speaker 2: of the ABC, Kim Williams. I interviewed him earlier this year.
Speaker 2: His mother had died and he was giving a speech.
Speaker 2: This is how he described it in his own words.
Speaker 2: Kim William's chair of the ABC.
Speaker 3: I do remember that she. I was giving this speech
Speaker 3: on education in the Parliament actually, and Mom appeared on
Speaker 3: the other side of the stage and started to walk
Speaker 3: across from me. She died a couple of days before
Speaker 3: I was While I was delivering the speech, I was
Speaker 3: saying in my head, Mum, this is not a good time.
Speaker 2: Start this.
Speaker 3: And then she came across the stage and then she
Speaker 3: stood on my right hand side, and I was continuing
Speaker 3: to endeavor to give the speech, and I did actually
Speaker 3: fall to then, and I did weep a little, which
Speaker 3: was very embarrassing because there was this room absolutely stacked
Speaker 3: with people. I recovered myself and kept on going, but
Speaker 3: it was I know, the audience was enormously perplexed. And
Speaker 3: I said, look, you're not going to begin to understand this,
Speaker 3: but my mother died a few days ago, and she's
Speaker 3: actually standing right next to me now, and I'm finding
Speaker 3: it rather difficult.
Speaker 2: That was a truly weird experience. So what's your instinct
Speaker 2: on that? Grief, as he says, grief playing games with
Speaker 2: the mane.
Speaker 1: Look, the first the first thought is grief, especially if
Speaker 1: you're under if your load with stress and you're still grieving,
Speaker 1: it's quite possible that that could come through. However, saying
Speaker 1: that the two things are not mutually exclusive, there's no
Speaker 1: reason why you can't be grieving and wanting to see
Speaker 1: someone and that person also actually coming through. Lots of
Speaker 1: people have reported, you know, dreams where relatives and things
Speaker 1: come through in the dreams to leaving the experience with
Speaker 1: a feeling of being reassured and comforted.
Speaker 2: But I would have I've thought I think would have
Speaker 2: had that sort of thing myself. I think you would
Speaker 2: assume after you've lost somebody close to you that could
Speaker 2: be your that's just your brain reacting in sleep, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and processing information in someone. You sometimes do get
Speaker 1: little bits of other information that come through that you
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily know. So there might be information about things
Speaker 1: or events that you weren't aware of. That rarely, but
Speaker 1: they do come through sometimes.
Speaker 2: So Ken Williams can't explain it, can you?
Speaker 1: In that particular instance, it's his own experience. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that I would want to to impact the meaningfulness
Speaker 1: of that for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, We've had a few other examples. I'll just
Speaker 2: before we move on to some other stuff. But I
Speaker 2: did some calls on radio about it. People who There
Speaker 2: was one case where a people had moved into a
Speaker 2: new house had a young son. Young son reported without
Speaker 2: fear several times night a person had come and sat
Speaker 2: on the end of the bed and stroke their leg,
Speaker 2: and of course Mum and dad said, he who's in
Speaker 2: the house. They found from a neighbor that had been
Speaker 2: a boy many years ago living in the house with
Speaker 2: polio and it was the habit of the father to
Speaker 2: sit on the end of the bed and stroke the
Speaker 2: son's leg with the polio. They weren't saying what had happened.
Speaker 2: They were just raising this as a very peculiar situation.
Speaker 2: Is it peculiar?
Speaker 1: Peculiar in the sense that it's really interesting?
Speaker 2: Yeahs really interesting. Why?
Speaker 1: Well, again, it indicates that there may be a conscious
Speaker 1: consciousness might have survived outside of death and remains behind,
Speaker 1: and in essence they're still looking after what they believe
Speaker 1: might be their child.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that was reported by the child and to
Speaker 2: the parents and they had no idea at the time.
Speaker 2: Was reported that this had happened in the house before
Speaker 2: they lived there. Yep.
Speaker 1: And these things do happen where people will report things
Speaker 1: occurring in the same location or of a period of time.
Speaker 1: So you might find that that family might move out
Speaker 1: of the house, another family comes in and the phenomena
Speaker 1: is reported again.
Speaker 2: Just before we move on, the other thing that was
Speaker 2: reported to me on radio as a guy lived in
Speaker 2: a house in Tasmania with his family. They'd moved in
Speaker 2: and strange things started to happen. His wife would scream
Speaker 2: under the shower and she'd be scolded. He go and
Speaker 2: have a look, and the water's cold, but she'd still
Speaker 2: been scolded. Windows opening and chuting all the email. The
Speaker 2: windows shut, and they still went up and down. According
Speaker 2: to the Family Strange Noises explanation.
Speaker 1: These are all common common reports, common common poltaris of
Speaker 1: ghosts or poltargeist activity. So ghosts ghosts are there's a
Speaker 1: slight difference in terms of the phenomena that that arise
Speaker 1: with ghosts. It's a bit more passive stuff, so you
Speaker 1: might see things at the corner of your eye, or
Speaker 1: you might find temperature, drops, noises, those kinds of things.
Speaker 1: Poltergeists that get a bit more hands on, so there
Speaker 1: might be a little bit more movement, windows opening, doors opening,
Speaker 1: feeling of being touched.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is there enough of that, you say, you
Speaker 2: keep You've said several times there are a lot of
Speaker 2: reports about this. Are there enough reports for you to
Speaker 2: feel convinced there's something going on? We don't understand.
Speaker 1: For me, yes, but for me it's it's it's evidence
Speaker 1: that I've gathered over my own investigations. So I've done
Speaker 1: a lot of sight investigtions where I went into the field.
Speaker 1: Also anecdotes. For example, when I when I created my group,
Speaker 1: I went into the bank to create an account for
Speaker 1: the organization. Once the bank manager, she.
Speaker 2: Must spend a long time ago, you had a bank manager.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, he actually told the taler when he comes in,
Speaker 1: please get him to come and talk to me. So
Speaker 1: I thought something, something's going on. I went in there
Speaker 1: and he told me his story about his recurring, recurring ghost.
Speaker 1: That he had a lady ghost with him for the
Speaker 1: last twenty thirty years, ever since he was a child.
Speaker 1: So he told me about this.
Speaker 2: She visited him regularly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just she, he said. She always were a I
Speaker 1: think it was a green dress and she would just
Speaker 1: appear during the night in his bedroom. And it wasn't
Speaker 1: It was kind of a reassuring kind of apparition.
Speaker 2: You believed it. He believed it.
Speaker 1: He believed it. And again, when I first started investigating,
Speaker 1: I was hardline. Sorry not I wouldn't say a skeptic,
Speaker 1: but I was critical in terms of accepting evidence. And
Speaker 1: as I said, if one individual would would have this experience,
Speaker 1: I probably would discount it, saying there's too many psychological
Speaker 1: processes going on. But the more I look into it,
Speaker 1: the more I'm starting to accept that, Yeah, perhaps they
Speaker 1: did see these things. It would be great to also
Speaker 1: get other corroborating kind of evidence.
Speaker 2: As well, so you're no longer have skept it.
Speaker 1: No, I've experienced a few things myself.
Speaker 2: To get to that. But some ground rules. First, you
Speaker 2: are a neuroscientist. What's a neuroscientist?
Speaker 1: So background is neuroscience. So I was looking at essentially
Speaker 1: how the brain works in very very fine intricate details.
Speaker 1: So the some of the work that I did was
Speaker 1: looking at or recording individual individual cells in the brain
Speaker 1: in response to sounds or individual cells. Yeah, yeah, so
Speaker 1: it's micro electrode recordings. This is in animal animal moderns,
Speaker 1: not not humans. But yeah, we'd insert a smaller electrode
Speaker 1: into the brain into one cell or a small group nearby,
Speaker 1: and record responses from let's say, hearing or responses from
Speaker 1: whisker movements.
Speaker 2: I'm asking these questions to prove them because you must.
Speaker 2: You must get sick of being mocked. I mean, you're
Speaker 2: not just some wacko.
Speaker 1: You've actually surprisingly I haven't really been mocked actively. Apart
Speaker 1: from a few student radio radio interviews where they were
Speaker 1: just making jokes about me.
Speaker 2: Most of the time.
Speaker 1: It's actually been pretty good. I have noticed early on
Speaker 1: there was a lot of hush hush, like the topic
Speaker 1: of parapsychology comes up, and then people, especially in academia,
Speaker 1: just go, let's not talk about that. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, on the on the down low, quietly, they'll
Speaker 1: start telling me their experiences that they've had, but they
Speaker 1: don't want to acknowledge it.
Speaker 2: You're so, you're a parapsychologist. What's that.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say parapsychology is my interest. I've never been
Speaker 1: professional in parapsychology because professional means I've got an income
Speaker 1: from it. So everything that I've done in my research
Speaker 1: has been from my own funds.
Speaker 2: And what are your teaching at the moment?
Speaker 1: So I work at at at Swimmer University. Essentially I
Speaker 1: have been teaching in neuroscience and cardio pulmonary physiology, so
Speaker 1: physiology based based work.
Speaker 2: And how long you've been doing that?
Speaker 1: Well, I have my ID card here which showed my
Speaker 1: face showed earlier I would have been teaching for about
Speaker 1: nine or so years.
Speaker 2: And why the interest in this area? I've read you
Speaker 2: say that it's something I had an interest since you
Speaker 2: were a child in this aerial wife.
Speaker 1: Since my teenage years, I came across a book by
Speaker 1: Robert Monroe. He and he was describing his experiences having
Speaker 1: spontaneous out of body experiences. So he was a businessman.
Speaker 1: One day, went to sleep on the couch, afternoon nap
Speaker 1: and bam, he's out of his bodies. He thinks he's
Speaker 1: going insane because he can feel things, he can put
Speaker 1: his hands through the floorboards. He went to see a
Speaker 1: neurologist and they said, no, it's your fine. So from
Speaker 1: that he actually started his own company, out of Body,
Speaker 1: trying to induce out of body experiences using brainwave activation
Speaker 1: through HAMI sync. I'm not sure if you're familiar with
Speaker 1: HAMI sink essentially bin ooral beats. Was it him or
Speaker 1: someone else, but anyway, so he had this technology to
Speaker 1: try and induce these things for yourselves. I read his book,
Speaker 1: I read his techniques, and I started implementing them when
Speaker 1: I was a teenager, and I could get to a
Speaker 1: certain point one of the you mean haven out of
Speaker 1: body experience. Well, yeah, so there's a certain number of stages.
Speaker 1: You try to let your body go to sleep and
Speaker 1: but your mind stays awake. And that at a certain
Speaker 1: point you try to raise or change your energy until
Speaker 1: you feel these vibrations in your body, and it's quite
Speaker 1: unique when you feel them, you definitely feel them. The
Speaker 1: problem it always failed for me after that because at
Speaker 1: that point you either get super excited and the excitement
Speaker 1: stops it, or you get really fearful. You fear that
Speaker 1: you're going to die. If you leave body, you can
Speaker 1: never come back again.
Speaker 2: Are you going to die?
Speaker 1: And those two have always one or the other always.
Speaker 2: Popped up, So you've never done it.
Speaker 1: I never had a conscious art of body experience, but
Speaker 1: I believe that with the intention or even naturally during
Speaker 1: during sleep, your body will or you're something within you
Speaker 1: will disengage and leave temporarily and come back when you
Speaker 1: wake up.
Speaker 2: Did you have an experience of visiting a you believe
Speaker 2: you're visiting a colleague.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is my partner now. We used to
Speaker 1: live on opposite ends of the city, and one night, spontaneously,
Speaker 1: I said, I haven't done this in years. I'm going
Speaker 1: to try and have an art of body experience and
Speaker 1: visit her. And I started started the process and I
Speaker 1: could feel that I was doing it, but it didn't
Speaker 1: feel comfortable. So I stopped and I just went to sleep.
Speaker 1: So that's the last that I recall of it. Next day,
Speaker 1: I got a phone call from her saying, did you
Speaker 1: try to have an art of body experience? Because I
Speaker 1: saw you in I in my room two in the morning.
Speaker 1: I woke up when you're there, which rightly so freaked
Speaker 1: her out. And so yeah, that's kind of that was
Speaker 1: interesting experience. I've never been observed by someone else.
Speaker 2: So you believe that you did have that out of
Speaker 2: body experience.
Speaker 1: It is certainly my intention, and it's not like I
Speaker 1: in the last fifteen years, I've actually actively tried to
Speaker 1: do this every night. This was probably first time in
Speaker 1: five years that I actually tried.
Speaker 2: Let's define some terms and then we'll move. I really
Speaker 2: want to hear more of your own experiences. Define a ghost, I.
Speaker 1: Guess the classical would be a human entity, a human
Speaker 1: being that has passed away and somehow portion of their consciousness,
Speaker 1: portion of their entity, has remained outside of the outside.
Speaker 2: Of the body. So you believe in ghosts, I.
Speaker 1: Definitely believe in the possibility. It's a political answer, okay, yes,
Speaker 1: I do. Just just to clarify that what is an
Speaker 1: apparition that's essentially a ghost that makes itself visible for
Speaker 1: one reason or another, a polter geist. Poltergeist I think
Speaker 1: as the name for the name derives from noisy spirit,
Speaker 1: polter geist, noisy spirit, and again those can those can
Speaker 1: be just highly energetic ghosts that tend to be a
Speaker 1: little bit more angry, I think would be it would
Speaker 1: be a good way of describing it.
Speaker 2: What is a visual anomaly?
Speaker 1: Visual anomaly, I think it's just a umbre all thetone
Speaker 1: for seeing something you can't explain.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you've seen that, You've seen things you can't explain. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you'll get to that supernatural assault, supernatural assault, I
Speaker 2: can't say that happened. Sorry, that's probably fairly rare event.
Speaker 2: But yeah, people do occasionally report feeling like they have
Speaker 2: been literally assaulted by something unknown. So for example, from
Speaker 2: the experiences that I've heard, people often report feeling like
Speaker 2: they're being pushed down the stairs. Rare down the stairs
Speaker 2: for example, it is rare phenomena where where you you
Speaker 2: physical interaction, being being moved or touched or objects even
Speaker 2: being moved are fairly uncommon because very hard if you
Speaker 2: sense a present well a return for that you sense
Speaker 2: there's something in the room rather than see it. Yep.
Speaker 2: Sounds presence, that's strangey okay. And what sort of things
Speaker 2: do people sense? I mean, the Hollywood will tell you
Speaker 2: there is a coldness in the room, or there's a
Speaker 2: smell in the room. What is it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, most of the time, probably the two most common
Speaker 1: things are people will shadow shadow people. I guess you
Speaker 1: sense something in the corner of your periphery, so you're
Speaker 1: looking at you're doing your own thing, and you just
Speaker 1: sense a movement, something that catches all right, you look
Speaker 1: over and there's nothing there. That's a very common one.
Speaker 1: And then at the same time or or separately, this
Speaker 1: sense presence where you're in the room and you just
Speaker 1: feel like there's someone looking at you or someone in
Speaker 1: the room with you, and there are Strangely enough, there
Speaker 1: are actually physical explanations for that. Magnetic fields, magnetic fields
Speaker 1: and ultrasounds. So those those are two mechanisms that potentially
Speaker 1: can induce those two sensations, which is yeah.
Speaker 2: So always the magnetic is that the magnetic field of
Speaker 2: because you've written the paper on this, but the magnetic
Speaker 2: field of the earth or what is the magnetic So
Speaker 2: there have been.
Speaker 1: There have been a few few cases, and a classic
Speaker 1: one was in the older days when people slept with
Speaker 1: alarm clocks. There was one one girl that long ago.
Speaker 1: That's that's what I used to think, until I started
Speaker 1: do you do you have an alarm clock.
Speaker 2: In your bed? Who has?
Speaker 1: These days? It's all the mobile phones now. But in
Speaker 1: this case, there was a girl, a young girl who
Speaker 1: kept having this sense presence, waking up nightmares, thinking there's
Speaker 1: someone in the room, and someone and someone, And it
Speaker 1: turned out it was the person who was investigating it
Speaker 1: was a bit of a skeptic and found out that
Speaker 1: the alarm clock was generating quite strong natic fields, and
Speaker 1: when they're near the head, especially around the temporal lobes
Speaker 1: ones on the side of your head, certain people are
Speaker 1: predisposed or have a sensitivity in that region and it
Speaker 1: can generate those feelings.
Speaker 2: I remember. I was really I interviewed recently, actually last year,
Speaker 2: an expert on aliens, and he quoted to me some
Speaker 2: evidence I've read from a man called David Grush in
Speaker 2: the United States Evans of Congress. He had been a
Speaker 2: worker in the US sort of alien area, if you like,
Speaker 2: and he claimed there was evidence of visitations, and he
Speaker 2: talked about people about aliens, about people. I talked about
Speaker 2: aliens in different dimensions? Are we what are we talking
Speaker 2: about here? That whatever you're talking that is something you
Speaker 2: do with a different dimension. See, I can't comprehend what
Speaker 2: a different dimension is.
Speaker 1: It's it's it is. It's a difficult concept to get around.
Speaker 1: You had that we live in this three three dimensional
Speaker 1: four dimensional if you include time, and then there might
Speaker 1: be another dimension where things pop out and you know,
Speaker 1: pop in and pop back out again. Difficult concept. But
Speaker 1: there's I don't know that much about UFOs, but I
Speaker 1: know Jacques Valley he was he was a very prominent uthologist,
Speaker 1: and he was looking at all of the reports of
Speaker 1: people reporting these things, and you were saying that these
Speaker 1: the reports that he was acquiring were so absurd in
Speaker 1: some cases that they it didn't make any sense that
Speaker 1: these things were coming from out of space. And he
Speaker 1: actually came to the through the idea, the theory that
Speaker 1: they are interdimensional. They pop in, they do something, and
Speaker 1: then they pop out again.
Speaker 2: So when you see and we take Kim Williams out
Speaker 2: of it, when somebody sees there there's a family meeting
Speaker 2: and dead dad suddenly turns up at the table. It
Speaker 2: could be dead dad popping out of another dimension. Does
Speaker 2: that mean it's a dimension full of dead people somewhere
Speaker 2: be pretty crowded.
Speaker 1: Ah, yes, I don't know how the dimension works. I've
Speaker 1: been I've been trying to figure out how how it
Speaker 1: interacts with the physical world, because there is definitely evidence
Speaker 1: of that that occurs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hell yeah, Well what's the evidence.
Speaker 1: Well, if we pick up something that isn't explainable by
Speaker 1: current laws of physics, which this ghost stuff falls into
Speaker 1: that category, then I'm guessing we're pretty pretty knowledgeable about
Speaker 1: our current environment, our current physics, and what can it
Speaker 1: cannot occur in that if something is popping in that
Speaker 1: we can't explain. One quite likely possibility is that there
Speaker 1: is another dimensions, or there is another another vibration level
Speaker 1: that something is you know, is coming in and back
Speaker 1: out again.
Speaker 2: It's all scared, you're spooky, not particularly, No, well.
Speaker 1: I know, it's it's just that one day, one day
Speaker 1: will be.
Speaker 2: There maybe ye. Well, see, the unknown is a bit challenging,
Speaker 2: a bit spooky, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, you find it intrigues I look, I find
Speaker 1: it intriguing myself. The possibilities are quite interesting. What is
Speaker 1: difficult is is getting science to should acknowledge it because
Speaker 1: there's because it is such a far out concept, so
Speaker 1: far out of our comfort zone.
Speaker 2: Is the serious scientific research going on to the into
Speaker 2: these sort of things.
Speaker 1: There are there are some groups that are definitely serious
Speaker 1: about it. There's a lot of amateur groups that also
Speaker 1: interested probaly more for the entertainment purposes or just trying
Speaker 1: to get something. But there are a few groups. I
Speaker 1: just did a book review for one group, but they're
Speaker 1: mostly psychology based. Ghost research is a really tricky thing
Speaker 1: to do because you've got to go on site, you've
Speaker 1: got to be there all night, it's laborious, and then
Speaker 1: ninety percent of the time you don't should get anything.
Speaker 1: So most research that's academic is usually done in labs,
Speaker 1: so either through through looking at individual components. I'd say,
Speaker 1: let's investigate magnetic field effect on the brain and see
Speaker 1: if we can reproduce some of the ghost responses and
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of it is also psychology questionnaires,
Speaker 1: psychological questionnaires.
Speaker 2: The couple of other definitions precognition.
Speaker 1: Precognition, what's that, Yeah, ability to obtain information from the
Speaker 1: future about the future through non non standard.
Speaker 2: Means, and does that exist.
Speaker 1: As freaky as it is as it sounds, there's actually
Speaker 1: quite a few papers now showing that there is an effect.
Speaker 2: It's sort of thing, not the lot of numbers I wants.
Speaker 1: So the most most interesting for me is the physiological
Speaker 1: ones where you if you measure your your skin resistance
Speaker 1: for example, galvanic skin resistance GSR, or your brain activity
Speaker 1: through electrodes or eug electrodes, and what you find is
Speaker 1: that your body actually preempts a particular target that comes
Speaker 1: up on the screen. So for example, you're you're sitting
Speaker 1: there wired up with these biosensors and they give you
Speaker 1: a test where they let you look at a blank
Speaker 1: screen and in five seconds you're going to get a
Speaker 1: just a regular, bland image they give you contrasted between
Speaker 1: regular images or really really emotionally charged images. If you
Speaker 1: give you a bland image, just a picture of house
Speaker 1: or whatever, they monitor your response and they find pretty
Speaker 1: average response. Your skin resistance goes up a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, one second before the image because you're predicting
Speaker 1: the image it's going to come up. But when they
Speaker 1: give you an emotionally charged image. You get five or
Speaker 1: six seconds before it actually comes up, you get a
Speaker 1: different response, And so your body is somehow predicting that
Speaker 1: it's going to get an emotional emotionally charged stimulus about five, five,
Speaker 1: up to six seconds before it actually comes up.
Speaker 2: Is that common?
Speaker 1: It's Yeah, it's been reproduced and how is it not
Speaker 1: in the mainstream media because the skeptics will say, no,
Speaker 1: it can't. It's got to be flawed in some way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are other other tests as well. I think one
Speaker 1: of the earlier tests, if I recall correctly, Daryl Bem
Speaker 1: I think it was the researcher he just used a
Speaker 1: memory test. It's commonly used in psychology. So I think
Speaker 1: you and he reversed that memory test. So the normal test,
Speaker 1: I've maybe something like here's a list of ten words
Speaker 1: that you have to memorize, and then one hour later
Speaker 1: you'll you will do a test out of one hundred words,
Speaker 1: you've got to pick these ten. What he did reversed it.
Speaker 1: He goes you pick out of these hundred words, you
Speaker 1: pick ten, and then an hour later they give you
Speaker 1: a list of ten words to memorize. And what he
Speaker 1: found was that the people actually picked ten words that
Speaker 1: they were later given at a higher chance because it's
Speaker 1: all statistics, it's all statistic based, so it's a chance based.
Speaker 1: But yeah, overall they found that there was actually slightly
Speaker 1: more picked that than you would expect. So it's a
Speaker 1: very smaller fact, very small. You've got to do lots
Speaker 1: of repetitions and lots of tests, but it comes through
Speaker 1: on a statistical level.
Speaker 2: Are there any credible examples of people and I can
Speaker 2: understand which you're talking about, that that precognition there in
Speaker 2: the lab who were actually saying in real life, I
Speaker 2: knew that was going to happen, Because you can never
Speaker 2: prove it. I mean, if somebody says I knew that
Speaker 2: the West Gate Bridge was going to fall down before
Speaker 2: it did, how do you prove it? And then does
Speaker 2: that happen.
Speaker 1: The way to prove it, I guess would be to
Speaker 1: write down your precognition before it actually happened. And because
Speaker 1: because I've had people who came to me claiming that
Speaker 1: they were precognitive and they gave me references and someone,
Speaker 1: but every time they contacted me, it was always after
Speaker 1: after I said, oh I told you this was going
Speaker 1: to happen.
Speaker 2: What have you ever come across the case that you
Speaker 2: thought you couldn't explain that was genuine.
Speaker 1: In terms of recognition myself personally, I've I've had, Look,
Speaker 1: I've had personal experiences. I've had I've had one where
Speaker 1: I actually had a dream about going to to Canberra,
Speaker 1: going to Parliament House and there's a it's a weird
Speaker 1: unusual kind of under around car park section where you're
Speaker 1: going into the unerground carpark And in my dream I
Speaker 1: had elements of that in my dream, superimposed with all
Speaker 1: the other absurd dream imagery, But there was elements of that,
Speaker 1: and I totally forgot about it. Ye about a year,
Speaker 1: a year and a half later, I'm actually driving with
Speaker 1: a colleague to go to a conference. We drive in
Speaker 1: there and I just exclaimed it, just said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is what I this is what I dreamt about.
Speaker 2: So you dreamed about the car part.
Speaker 1: Year and a half. Yeah, it was a mundane thing.
Speaker 1: It was like totally insignificant, but it's I guess meaningful
Speaker 1: to me in some way.
Speaker 2: Is this what Dejavu's about?
Speaker 1: Deja vu is a little bit less, it's a bit
Speaker 1: more obscure in that it's just a feeling that you've
Speaker 1: been somewhere and you've done this before. So it's a
Speaker 1: it's a sense of familiarity that you can't quite pin down.
Speaker 2: So ghosts, how do you prove a ghost exists? How
Speaker 2: do you suspect that a ghost exists? How do you
Speaker 2: explain the inexplicable ghosts apparitions? Poulter Geist's famous sites where
Speaker 2: there have been a lot of ghost sightings? Why Dr
Speaker 2: Vladimir Dubai more from him in a moment. The study
Speaker 2: you've done, I'm going to try. I've read through it,
Speaker 2: and Asa said I understood some of it. Magnetispheric and
Speaker 2: lunar interactions with reported sensorlly hallucinations and exploratory study involving
Speaker 2: Port Arthur or in the incidence Port Arthur.
Speaker 1: It just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it does?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a top top seller. What did you do?
Speaker 1: A colleague of mine was lucky enough to get his
Speaker 1: hands on about twenty five years worth of eyewitness reports
Speaker 1: at Port Arthur. So luckily, what Port Arthur management did
Speaker 1: every time someone experienced something that they couldn't explain, they
Speaker 1: went to management and wrote down their experience. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: just like one or two sentences. Sometimes it's a bit more.
Speaker 1: But the thing is most of them had date and
Speaker 1: time that it occurred. And what that allowed us to
Speaker 1: do was to actually pull twenty five years of information together.
Speaker 1: And it was going to be a series, I guess,
Speaker 1: a series of tests that you can do with them.
Speaker 1: But the first one that came to my mind was, okay,
Speaker 1: let's rule out moonface because Moonface was annoying me.
Speaker 2: You're talking about round about seven. I think it was
Speaker 2: over a thousand people, but you didn't get repetitive No,
Speaker 2: those stories about seven hundred incliments.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we removed all the repetitions and sometimes there were
Speaker 1: two eye witnesses to the reports, and we just pulled
Speaker 1: it for because we were mostly interested in the time
Speaker 1: and date, yes, more so than necessarily the content, at
Speaker 1: least for this particular study. And yeah, so we my
Speaker 1: first interest because I was always interested in magnetic fields,
Speaker 1: and I was always very skeptical of moonface because moonfase,
Speaker 1: all right, people kept talking about it, and I thought, let's.
Speaker 2: Put it out of what is was late Burt Newton?
Speaker 2: What is what is moon phase? Sorry? Newton was known
Speaker 2: as moonface Moon face moon phase, the phase of man assuring.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's commonly referred to like a witchcraft and someone,
Speaker 1: you know, you do a certain spell on a full
Speaker 1: moon or a new moon and someone and and there
Speaker 1: was always this talk about moon phase being related to
Speaker 1: ghost activity, and I was always pretty pretty cynical about it.
Speaker 1: So I said, okay, let's just quickly do this. It's
Speaker 1: a simple simple thing. Categorize all of the dates and
Speaker 1: occurrences by by the phase of the moon. Did the analysis,
Speaker 1: and it's seriously significant.
Speaker 2: There are more ghosts when it's full moon.
Speaker 1: More people reporting ghost activity on a full moon and
Speaker 1: a new moon. So in a full moon it goes up,
Speaker 1: drops off for the rest of the month, and then
Speaker 1: new moon as well comes up. That was interesting, But
Speaker 1: there's other there's physical explanations for that, or the psychological
Speaker 1: explanations for it.
Speaker 2: The moon affecting person well.
Speaker 1: Because there's no real there's no real known mechanism by
Speaker 1: which the moon directly affects people. And like you know,
Speaker 1: people often put forward this idea or the gravitational pull
Speaker 1: because it pulls oceans and so on. Someone did the
Speaker 1: cal collation. It says the gravitational effect of the moon
Speaker 1: on the human is equivalent to two meters tall brick
Speaker 1: wall about a meter away from me. That's about a
Speaker 1: much gravitational pull that it has on a human, So
Speaker 1: gravity not so much. And there are logical explanations. For example,
Speaker 1: if someone is out there Port Arthur, it's a big place,
Speaker 1: often outdoors at night, you look at the moon, you
Speaker 1: see that it's a full moon, you'll make that connection.
Speaker 1: So we assume that you're going to increases your chance
Speaker 1: or expectation of seeing something paranormal. Conversely, on a new moon,
Speaker 1: there's a lot less light, a lot more room available
Speaker 1: for misinterpretation of vague stimuli.
Speaker 2: So you can see the reasons why the full moon
Speaker 2: might lead to that absolutely.
Speaker 1: So that I can I can say that study was interesting,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't separate out the physical psychological factors from paranormal.
Speaker 1: But what I did then was go back to my
Speaker 1: own studies. I had a much smaller data set of
Speaker 1: my investigations, and I looked at again the days that
Speaker 1: we looked at those, and I know that my team
Speaker 1: was pretty skeptical about moon phase because we're often making
Speaker 1: jokes about it during the investigations. So we didn't even
Speaker 1: really monitor it. I look at that exactly the same pattern.
Speaker 1: More activity occurs on New Moon and full moon than
Speaker 1: other periods of the month, and that, to me is
Speaker 1: gives credibility to this study which is much larger that
Speaker 1: the moon phase does correlate and there's a good chance
Speaker 1: that there is something that isn't psychological or physical, there's
Speaker 1: some other element.
Speaker 2: Why do you take that step.
Speaker 1: Because this larger study in Port Arthur shows the pattern
Speaker 1: My study, my it was another paper that I actually
Speaker 1: published with another journal. Uh, kind of teases out the
Speaker 1: psychological factors and the and the the belief from from that.
Speaker 1: So that kind of once you once you once you
Speaker 1: tease out the physical factors and you tease out the
Speaker 1: psychological factors, what's left could be considered potentially parallel.
Speaker 2: Well, what about the geomagnetic activity? What did you find there?
Speaker 2: And what is it for? That's a sort of like
Speaker 2: a some storm, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's actually the relationship that the Sun has with
Speaker 1: the Earth. It's so the Earth has got a very strong,
Speaker 1: well a week. I don't know if it's a week,
Speaker 1: a week or strong. I'm not sure what I'm comparing
Speaker 1: it to. But it's got a magnetic field, and that
Speaker 1: kind of acts as a shield because the Sun is
Speaker 1: constantly throwing out charge particles at the Earth, and every
Speaker 1: once in a while you get solar storms where the
Speaker 1: Sun spits out, spews out sunspots, a lot of matter
Speaker 1: being ejected, and eventually that if that hits the Earth,
Speaker 1: it causes the Aurora Borealis and Aurora Australis patterns, and
Speaker 1: that causes very strong magnetic magnetic storms, like low, very
Speaker 1: low frequency magnetic pulsations that kind of reverberate through around
Speaker 1: the planet.
Speaker 2: And in fact, we just had a big weekend for that,
Speaker 2: I think, so, yeah, I've got quite a warning on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can download an app on your phone actually
Speaker 1: monitor in real time if that's something that interests you.
Speaker 1: But on that note, there was another research on Michael
Speaker 1: Persinger and he has been looking at the effects of
Speaker 1: magnetic fields on the brain and he found he actually
Speaker 1: developed a helmet called Quran helmet. I think it is
Speaker 1: helmet where you put little magnetic fields, not sensors, but
Speaker 1: generators and little magnetic field things around, especially the temporal
Speaker 1: lobes ears. And you found that if you if you
Speaker 1: stimulate one side with a magnetic field roughly the same
Speaker 1: strength as the Earth in a in a biologically significant pattern,
Speaker 1: people will report a sensed presence will they will say,
Speaker 1: oh my god, there's something in the room with me.
Speaker 1: And if the interesting thing is, if you stimulate one side,
Speaker 1: you've got positive sensations like something pleasant, angel is here
Speaker 1: with me. If you do the other side, it's a negative.
Speaker 2: Well, so did this study at Port Arthur, did that
Speaker 2: show any link between geomagnetic activity and signings or reports?
Speaker 1: So again, what we looked at was the twenty five
Speaker 1: year cycle, because what you find is that the magnetic
Speaker 1: fields fluctuate like a seat, it's like a season like
Speaker 1: you know, winter, spring, autumn and someone. There's a fluctuations
Speaker 1: and when when you when you log the number of
Speaker 1: reports per year or per month, it also follows that
Speaker 1: trend of the magnetic field field intensity.
Speaker 2: So again, and does that link with the lunar No,
Speaker 2: they they.
Speaker 1: Both correlate, but they're on totally different different.
Speaker 2: Times they're both causing any or that they're both there
Speaker 2: at the time of an increase in report.
Speaker 1: So what you find is that that on months where
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of geromagnetic storms, a
Speaker 1: lot of germ magnetic activity. More people will report ghosts
Speaker 1: and ghost.
Speaker 2: Phenomena, But this isn't that an explanation, a scientific explanation
Speaker 2: that says, hang on, that's just the magnetism playing games
Speaker 2: with your brain and you think you're seeing ghosts. Yep.
Speaker 1: So exactly. A skeptic will say, there you go, there's
Speaker 1: your explanation, and you can't exclude that because we've seen
Speaker 1: in the lab. You can, you can, you can induce it.
Speaker 1: What what you can't explain, though, is events where multiple
Speaker 1: people see the same thing the same thing, or objects
Speaker 1: physically move, and so a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: the reports of pot Arthur involved equipment malfunctioning equipment or
Speaker 1: things actually physically moving. Those things you can't explain through
Speaker 1: Have you been there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it is an eerie place the first thing.
Speaker 2: But then I thought, well, I know it's history, and
Speaker 2: I was there pre the shootings, and that's just added
Speaker 2: to it. But I was there, I know the history
Speaker 2: of the place and how awful it was, So of
Speaker 2: course it's a yarie to me because I know all
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Do you feel that to I'm terrible at picking up
Speaker 1: on these things. I'm about as sensitive as as a brick.
Speaker 1: For these I am trying to enhance my my sensitivity things.
Speaker 2: To tell me what is what is the ghost Chaser's kit.
Speaker 2: We talked briefly about the equipment. Now if you again
Speaker 2: you see it on TV and the movies and the
Speaker 2: things that go bing and beaten like Monty Python. There's
Speaker 2: all sorts of devices that show things in the real world.
Speaker 2: What you use if you're going out to investigate reports
Speaker 2: that you think require investigation, what do you take with you?
Speaker 1: So, look my equipment. I focus on the environment. So
Speaker 1: a lot of the equipment that I have is essentially
Speaker 1: to measure measure things in the environment. Temperature being one,
Speaker 1: magnetic fields so we have EMF meters. We've got thermal
Speaker 1: imaging cameras, night vision cameras. Sound sound is a main one.
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of activity is essentially different sounds,
Speaker 1: and then you work up again the energy levels. We
Speaker 1: might have microwave detectors and kind of higher energy ionizing radiation,
Speaker 1: so guide counters and things. So the idea is again
Speaker 1: try and get as much of the spectrum as possible.
Speaker 1: Some of the other groups might then focus on interaction
Speaker 1: interaction with the spirits, So they might have trigger objects.
Speaker 1: Object is something that might that allows an entity, if
Speaker 1: it's in the room, to interact with. So some of
Speaker 1: the things that I use are little dog toys. You
Speaker 1: bounce them and they light start flashing lights and they've
Speaker 1: actually turned out to be really helpful. Just leave it
Speaker 1: in the room and and a couple of times now
Speaker 1: we've just seen it just start.
Speaker 2: It moves, it lights up.
Speaker 1: I've never seen a move. I've seen them just light
Speaker 1: up simultaneously by themselves.
Speaker 2: So what else have you you've seen that was difficult
Speaker 2: to explain in your equipment, you know, the equipment shows this,
Speaker 2: this or this.
Speaker 1: So we've had the pattern that's occurred over the years
Speaker 1: during my investigations has led me to believe that the
Speaker 1: psychology of the individuals investigating has an impact on the
Speaker 1: actual Yes, because when I started, come the skeptics again.
Speaker 1: When I started, what would happen is you would set
Speaker 1: up the whole room or an entire area with equipment
Speaker 1: and start monitoring it. And you go there for one
Speaker 1: hour and do this we call it vigil where you
Speaker 1: sit there and you just monitor the environment. Nothing happens
Speaker 1: all what you find is that you're in this room
Speaker 1: and something happens in another room. You damn I missed it.
Speaker 1: I should have put something in there. Or at the
Speaker 1: end of the hour, you take a break and during
Speaker 1: that fifteen minute coffee break something happens. So it's almost
Speaker 1: as if things were actively avoiding interacting with us during
Speaker 1: those times. Only fairly recently did we have. Probably the
Speaker 1: most significant event that I had experienced myself was when
Speaker 1: collectively a group of us, about ten fifteen to twenty
Speaker 1: people all came together and we were all in the
Speaker 1: same mindset, in the same mood. At that point, something
Speaker 1: physically manifested and about six or seven of us saw
Speaker 1: an apparition.
Speaker 2: Just run past. So what was your mood?
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: An interesting It's the first time we tried it because
Speaker 1: I was part of a a ghost tour. We were
Speaker 1: doing a like a mini conference and a little two
Speaker 1: of this place and one person we're trying to all
Speaker 1: the mediums will try to raise your vibrations or whatever
Speaker 1: through through singing, and someone none.
Speaker 2: Of it was working.
Speaker 1: A bit of queen I have I have heard of
Speaker 1: of of in mediumship circles. They would want any song
Speaker 1: to try and get everybody singing and get them happy
Speaker 1: or something along the side. That's why I didn't work,
Speaker 1: because we're all sitting there and nobody knows each other
Speaker 1: because it's all and everyone's just really awkward until one
Speaker 1: individual started sharing her experience, which was really emotionally deep,
Speaker 1: and I think it brought everybody in onto the same
Speaker 1: level mentally.
Speaker 2: And what did you say?
Speaker 1: And that at that point in the behind everyone, we
Speaker 1: saw a shimmer. Have you ever watched the movie Predator? Yeah,
Speaker 1: pretatype where you've got the the the alien itselful. The
Speaker 1: predator has got this this distortion field, so it allows
Speaker 1: it to hide in the jungle. I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: you recall closer.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Another good example is the heat coming off of the
Speaker 1: hot road. You can see the I forget what it's called,
Speaker 1: but the heat distortion almost look like that in a
Speaker 1: figure form running along the wall and past the window.
Speaker 1: And when it went past the window, you could see
Speaker 1: the distortion to the point where it looked like the
Speaker 1: window was opening and closing. And four seconds later, the
Speaker 1: trigger object fired, which was sitting on the ground right
Speaker 1: in its trajectory, so the light just started flushing all
Speaker 1: by itself, and about six or seven people saw it.
Speaker 2: And you saw it. Yeah, can you explain it?
Speaker 1: I can't give you a scientific explanation for it.
Speaker 2: Can you give me a non scientist.
Speaker 1: Can My subjective feel for this, based on other things
Speaker 1: that I've experienced, is that there was an entity in
Speaker 1: the room, and I have a feeling that the energy,
Speaker 1: I don't know what, I don't know how you define
Speaker 1: that energy from the group or the mental state of
Speaker 1: the group somehow provided energy to this thing to actually
Speaker 1: be able to manifest it.
Speaker 2: It's reminiscent of a call I took on radio only
Speaker 2: a couple of days ago from a woman who was
Speaker 2: a night nurse at an age care facility, and she
Speaker 2: one of the residents had died while she was off duty,
Speaker 2: and that she had been very close to her. So
Speaker 2: she's sitting there at two o'clock in the morning, probably
Speaker 2: just watching for patients that need it, and down the
Speaker 2: corridor came something she described as looking like a swarm
Speaker 2: of bees in the shape of a figure. But that
Speaker 2: could easily be that sort of what you're describing, she says,
Speaker 2: it wasn't. She was, it wasn't specifically a person, but
Speaker 2: it was in the shape of a figure, and it
Speaker 2: was like a vision of swirling. Is the way you describe.
Speaker 2: There's very similar thing. I'd love to get to you
Speaker 2: to your other experiences. You you said there had been
Speaker 2: several others stands out to you. I written one about
Speaker 2: an orb. Yeah, so those weird one. I've seen a
Speaker 2: couple of orbs, and one of the most common thing
Speaker 2: is people will take a photograph in a supposedly haunted
Speaker 2: location and they'll see these orbs and photographs, and I
Speaker 2: kind of got tired of looking at them because it's
Speaker 2: almost inevitably dust particles in the camera. So it's if
Speaker 2: you get dust or particle of matter in front of
Speaker 2: the focal length of the camera, it just looks like
Speaker 2: a big spot. Too many people keep sending me this stuff,
Speaker 2: and I kind of got a bit cynical of it.
Speaker 2: The only time I've accepted orbs was when I actually
Speaker 2: saw them with my own eyes. And what happened the
Speaker 2: first time was an investigation at an abandoned asylum country Victoria,
Speaker 2: and again I was just by chance, by design. We
Speaker 2: were always investigating in groups of two, and I'm standing
Speaker 2: there too in the morning, looking at a doorway, and
Speaker 2: there's just this orange orange ball size of basketball, just
Speaker 2: a very faint orange, and it's kind of glowing, pulsing
Speaker 2: very very slowly, and I'm looking at it and I'm.
Speaker 1: Almos because it's two in the morning, I'm tired, and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I think it's just my imagination or it
Speaker 1: must be something. It must be a light from one
Speaker 1: of the wall fittings that's reflecting on the door. It
Speaker 1: must be there's no lights on. Last year, As it
Speaker 1: turns out, there was no power to that section. It
Speaker 1: was essentially almost condemned building, so there was no power,
Speaker 1: and all the shutters were closed because anyway. I turned
Speaker 1: to my colleague, who was looking in another direction, I said,
Speaker 1: can you see that? And we both picked it up.
Speaker 1: And the first thought was, Okay, it's got to be something.
Speaker 1: It could be torch light from outside. We looked at
Speaker 1: people outside. Nobody out there. Again, curtains are closed. We
Speaker 1: came back at least two or three times thereafter to
Speaker 1: try and try and look at different theories as to
Speaker 1: what might have happened.
Speaker 2: So how long was how long were looking at it?
Speaker 1: About a minute or so, so it's a long time.
Speaker 1: And again it wasn't. It didn't feel supernatural.
Speaker 2: It's just there. But you can't explain it. You can't
Speaker 2: explain it still, I'm sure you've done a lot of
Speaker 2: thinking about Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we thought it might be helicopters. We thought it
Speaker 1: might be carl light fire, fire lights from the wall.
Speaker 1: There's nothing, nothing that really made sense to it.
Speaker 2: And you've seen it again, or you've seen a similar thing.
Speaker 1: I saw a similar thing, much more pronounced. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily related to ghosts. This was just a weird,
Speaker 1: really weird location that a colleague of mine got me
Speaker 1: onto in Tasmania, isolated farmland and the people there had
Speaker 1: been reporting everything from UFOs to ghosts to strange things,
Speaker 1: and they said most nights when it's not raining, they
Speaker 1: would look out the back window at night and they
Speaker 1: would just see lights and they don't know if it's
Speaker 1: torch lights from people's on. We went there and literally
Speaker 1: the first night we see this, at dusk, we see
Speaker 1: this blue light. No, it's a white light just to
Speaker 1: pear about five feet off the ground and the white
Speaker 1: lights just hovering, turns blue and then it splits in
Speaker 1: two and then starts moving and just fades away. And
Speaker 1: we're all, I'm kind of I have no idea what
Speaker 1: that is, and.
Speaker 2: You still haven't.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not.
Speaker 2: What do you thought about theory?
Speaker 1: Well after that, I mean, the theory is, well, okay,
Speaker 1: what's what's behind it? Could we have car headlights? And
Speaker 1: we again we looked at all the possibilities. We went
Speaker 1: and looked at the maps, We looked at what's the
Speaker 1: property that's behind them. It's very isolated, so there's really nobody,
Speaker 1: nobody for about a kilometer or two, you know, further down.
Speaker 1: We thought it might be lights from a lake or whatever.
Speaker 1: There was really no explanation for it that we could
Speaker 1: come up with.
Speaker 2: Hm, was it in any way you mentioned? The first
Speaker 2: one was just there. It wasn't particularly confronting. It was
Speaker 2: the second one confronting or puzzling or discovering.
Speaker 1: There was no emotional come out other than excitement saying,
Speaker 1: oh my god, what's this that's really interesting?
Speaker 2: So other than that sort of glimpsing, the glimpse of
Speaker 2: the sort of fuzzy thing, have you have you ever
Speaker 2: seen a ghost?
Speaker 1: As I said, the closest thing was that was that apparition.
Speaker 2: Have you ever felt the coal or the noise? Or the.
Speaker 1: We The most common things would be would be audio anomalies,
Speaker 1: sounds that we couldn't explain, and occasionally, occasionally, for me,
Speaker 1: I think the most annoying thing was interaction with my
Speaker 1: electronic equipment. Often some of the more active places you'd
Speaker 1: find that stuff that would normally work just stopped working
Speaker 1: and you couldn't get it to work again. I have
Speaker 1: I had a computer system connecting to all my CCTV cameras,
Speaker 1: all my security cameras, which would set up and this
Speaker 1: thing's pretty robust, Like we drive Country Victoria on dirt roads.
Speaker 1: Everything's working fine. I take it to this one location
Speaker 1: inner city, set it up, and it just stops working.
Speaker 1: I have to reinstall all the software and stuff, and
Speaker 1: there was no explanation for it because it's never never
Speaker 1: acted up prior to that, and it is always when
Speaker 1: I went to that location, something would happen with the
Speaker 1: electronic equipment.
Speaker 2: Why are you seeing all these things? Is it because
Speaker 2: you're going to these places or is there something about
Speaker 2: you that.
Speaker 1: In all honesty, I see a small percentage of things.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't classify myself as being one of the more
Speaker 1: being able to see any more than anyone else. And
Speaker 1: in fact, there was a study done a little couple
Speaker 1: of years ago that seems to show that people who
Speaker 1: experience ghost activity or hauntings in their own homes tend
Speaker 1: to have a baseline a higher level of psychic ability,
Speaker 1: that is, their brains are kind of more wired for
Speaker 1: picking up these things.
Speaker 2: So there are there is, There are people and the
Speaker 2: people who claim and do it professionally as well, but
Speaker 2: there are people who do actually have a level of
Speaker 2: psychic ability, which is.
Speaker 1: Some people are more predisposed to others. You can train yourself,
Speaker 1: but some people are just born a little bit more
Speaker 1: more sensitive than others.
Speaker 2: What do you think of the ghost industry, ghost tours
Speaker 2: and ghost movies and ghosts of I was watching some
Speaker 2: of the United States prepared in preparing for this interview,
Speaker 2: and well, it's a bit sort of It almost demeans
Speaker 2: what you're doing, doesn't it. I feel like I should
Speaker 2: have refrained from commenting, really, what are you?
Speaker 1: I'm not a big fan of it in all honesty,
Speaker 1: it's I understand why people do it, because it is
Speaker 1: really it's it's a fascinating field, but coming from it
Speaker 1: as a scientist who wants to try and understand it
Speaker 1: a bit more. It actually interferes with my ability to
Speaker 1: do the investigations because there's been several times now where
Speaker 1: I would have lined up an investigation with all location,
Speaker 1: only for it to fall through, and then a month
Speaker 1: later there's a contract with some tour group wants to
Speaker 1: go through, and that's happened a little bit too many times.
Speaker 1: There's also a lot of people muscling in so people
Speaker 1: to get territorial. So these groups will say, oh, this
Speaker 1: is our place, now can't you can't.
Speaker 2: Go to investment, so you're not making money out of it.
Speaker 1: I have never charged for investigation all. It's a lot
Speaker 1: of my pocket.
Speaker 2: See that helps credibility. Are children more likely to have
Speaker 2: psychic capability or animals?
Speaker 1: I know that children up to about the age of five,
Speaker 1: their brains, parts of their brains are still I guess
Speaker 1: you're developing until about eighteen to twenty years of age.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of evidence that people up until the age of five
Speaker 1: or so actually more prominent, more likely to recall past lives,
Speaker 1: so they they will say, hey, when I was a
Speaker 1: girl back in my back in the other day, I
Speaker 1: died in a fire or something, and the parents are going,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about. A colleague of mine actually
Speaker 1: said exactly that. Apparently, up until age of five, he
Speaker 1: was telling his parents that he was a girl who
Speaker 1: died at the age of nineteen or so at a
Speaker 1: pub fire in a nearby town, and as it turns out,
Speaker 1: parents looked at it and said, yeah, there was a
Speaker 1: fire and a person died.
Speaker 2: So watch your stand on reincarnation or haven't you looked
Speaker 2: at it? Probably I can't say I've looked at it.
Speaker 2: I would like to believe in it. I think that's
Speaker 2: probably as far as that, but I haven't really looked
Speaker 2: at it in detail. But if you have reincarnations, you
Speaker 2: wouldn't have ghosts, because that'll be back.
Speaker 1: There's always this idea that not everybody who passes away
Speaker 1: remains a ghost. In fact, the evidence suggests that all ghosts,
Speaker 1: almost every ghost, is caused by traumatic death. So people
Speaker 1: who die suddenly and violently they will remain behind in
Speaker 1: some way, and the ghosts, the hauntings, don't last forever.
Speaker 1: They do eventually fade away. So it almost seems like
Speaker 1: these people are mentally processing what's happened to them and
Speaker 1: then moving on to whatever that other place.
Speaker 2: Is you had trouble with your equipment, or about animals or
Speaker 2: animals we use stories about dogs apparently bristling and grounding
Speaker 2: for no reason because dogs have been hearing a bit
Speaker 2: of smell.
Speaker 1: So yeah, cats and dogs have been reported to experience that.
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, out of body experiences. Back in the I'm
Speaker 1: not sure seventies or eighties eighties, there was one study
Speaker 1: done looking at a person who can induce out of
Speaker 1: body experiences, that will and his pat cat. And what
Speaker 1: they found was that they did it studying to look
Speaker 1: at where the cat was sitting during the experiment, and
Speaker 1: they found when he was out of his body and
Speaker 1: in the room, the cat would spend more time in
Speaker 1: that particular part of the thing. So it's almost as
Speaker 1: if the cat was picking.
Speaker 2: Up on somewhere. Yeah, exorcism. This is puzzled me because
Speaker 2: as far as the Catholic Church, and I'm much about
Speaker 2: the anklers with the Catholic Church certainly still believes in exorcism,
Speaker 2: in driving the devil out of people. Have you ever
Speaker 2: seen it done?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: No, I have.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what. I'm not sure what I believe
Speaker 1: or how I feel about about exorcisms per se, but
Speaker 1: I do know that it is fairly common that people will,
Speaker 1: well I guess, sometimes get attachments, attachments from ghosts or
Speaker 1: spirits that will essentially follow follow them. And so we've
Speaker 1: had people who, even in my group, who ended up
Speaker 1: bringing something home with them. And the scary thing is
Speaker 1: the scary thing is that this person, once they got
Speaker 1: the attachment, actually didn't want to get rid of it.
Speaker 1: And that's that's a that's a that's a bit of
Speaker 1: a scary thought.
Speaker 2: You do.
Speaker 1: You can get attachments. I'm not sure how common it is,
Speaker 1: and it can manifest itself through things now start to
Speaker 1: happen in your house, or your personality might change or
Speaker 1: is it being affected.
Speaker 2: Why didn't this person want to get rid of whatever attached?
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. Some people like the attention, other
Speaker 1: people don't. And this comes out in ghost investigations when
Speaker 1: when people approach us, people will approach us saying, look,
Speaker 1: my place is haunted, can you help me? And I
Speaker 1: do the I do? The investigations come in and the
Speaker 1: personality of the individual. Some just desperately wanted to go on,
Speaker 1: Others want had gone, or they tell you they wanted
Speaker 1: to go on. But you can tell that they're fascinated
Speaker 1: by it, and that that attraction to the phenomena actually
Speaker 1: makes it stay, makes it very heart.
Speaker 2: It's a pretty dramatic film of exicisms, of priests conducting
Speaker 2: driving the devil out of somebody. What do you put
Speaker 2: that down to? What dold I put it down to?
Speaker 2: You're the scientist.
Speaker 1: I've never I've never seen an exorcism, a real exorism film.
Speaker 1: I've only ever seen movie versions of that. So I
Speaker 1: couldn't really specify.
Speaker 2: As you can artifacts be haunted. Artifacts, you know there's
Speaker 2: a something sitting in the corner.
Speaker 1: I've heard of it, and I've heard of objects and
Speaker 1: things supposedly being haunted. In fact, I had one person
Speaker 1: email me just last week claiming that this piece of
Speaker 1: jewelry she acquired, when she got it, electrical equipment started
Speaker 1: malfunctioning in her house, so she started getting So I
Speaker 1: can't discount it's the possibility is there. But I'm also
Speaker 1: aware that mediums and psychics claim that they can cleanse
Speaker 1: these these things, and they can cleanse individuals and have
Speaker 1: attachments to them.
Speaker 2: I was looking in some of the famous cases of
Speaker 2: alleged hauntings in Australia, and often you say they're creative
Speaker 2: for tourism things like the beach Worth Asylum. Was that
Speaker 2: where you had your experience, So I've been there at
Speaker 2: dusk by coincidence, i was in the area and it
Speaker 2: was all closed down. It's a spooky place. And again
Speaker 2: like Port Arthur, you know the history of it, so
Speaker 2: it spooks you a bit. Princess Theodore Melbourne not spooky,
Speaker 2: but alleged they got to go Frederick FREDERICI died on
Speaker 2: stage Port Arthur, many of them. Arradel Mental Asylum as
Speaker 2: a nurse wandering around Young and Jackson's the pub in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: Alleged woman appears out the front with her throat cut.
Speaker 2: The old Melbourne jail cells seventeen people scratched and britt
Speaker 2: bitten when they go in there, Adelaide Arcade, Francis Clooney
Speaker 2: caretaker who they think might have been murdered, and some
Speaker 2: of the locals. So this daily experience of the para paranormal,
Speaker 2: Larundel music box playing. I mean, all these sort of places,
Speaker 2: there's a thread here. They are as you said, they're
Speaker 2: places of trauma. Their place is probably a violent death.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so as I said, the study is done. Looking
Speaker 1: at the I think ninety nine percent of them are
Speaker 1: due caused by violent death or sudden death. There's only
Speaker 1: one that was kind of I think a lady that
Speaker 1: died of a broken heart because her husband didn't come
Speaker 1: back from true true, I guess. So I guess in
Speaker 1: some sense they're all pretty traumatic.
Speaker 2: Sorry, yes, can I just say?
Speaker 1: I have also encountered places that aren't haunted but became
Speaker 1: haunted mainly because of popular belief. So I've investigated locations
Speaker 1: where after the investigation I spoke to the original owner,
Speaker 1: original occupant, and he said, no, no one's ever died there.
Speaker 1: The only reason why people believe there's a ghost there
Speaker 1: is because of a popular TV show that came into
Speaker 1: the investigation, and the resident psychic said, oh, I can
Speaker 1: send something here, and from then it was set in
Speaker 1: concrete because it was good for publicity.
Speaker 2: What about that some of those places I mentioned, have
Speaker 2: you heard of them? Have you heard of the claims there?
Speaker 2: Places like Young and Jackson's or beat Worth or Error.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dale Adel's Prief pretty familiar. There's yeah, lots of
Speaker 1: lots of things occurring over there as well.
Speaker 2: What sort of things.
Speaker 1: That's that's where I saw the orbs, is it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, do you believe we continue after death? Yes?
Speaker 2: I don't know what form.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know what form. I'm starting to put
Speaker 1: together this personal belief in terms of the survival of consciousness.
Speaker 1: And I think that survival of consciousness yeah, fits fits
Speaker 1: the ghost activity and all the other activity that that's
Speaker 1: reassuring to. Yeah, I think I think certainly, certainly nobody
Speaker 1: wants to Nobody wants to be on their death bed
Speaker 1: and thinking oh, that's it, there's nothing else. It's actually
Speaker 1: pretty confronting to think, like.
Speaker 2: What about near death experiences they teach us anything about that.
Speaker 2: I've talked a few doctors about this, and like most
Speaker 2: people might, I've been with people when they died, sitting
Speaker 2: in bedside, and I've never seen anything at all other
Speaker 2: than the person stops breathing. And a lot of doctors
Speaker 2: I spoke to so no, we didn't notice anything. But
Speaker 2: then there are these reports people sitting up in bed
Speaker 2: from a coma and saying hello, mum. You know that
Speaker 2: sort of thing deathbed visions? Yeah, what do you think
Speaker 2: of that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's in fact, there was a United Nations Mind
Speaker 1: Body suppose M conference. But this is back in two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, and there was a doctor Bruce Grace
Speaker 1: and I think his name is. He was giving examples
Speaker 1: to the committee saying, we have people who have irreversible
Speaker 1: dementia who are on the deathbed. They do not remember
Speaker 1: their husbands, their kids, someone, and half an hour or
Speaker 1: one hour before they die, they become completely lucid, completely
Speaker 1: aware of everything, They welcome, They say goodbye to their
Speaker 1: husbands or wives, they say goodbye to their kids, and
Speaker 1: then they pass away. And he's saying, no, there's no
Speaker 1: current model or explanation for how you can come out
Speaker 1: of this irreversible.
Speaker 2: So what does a neuroscientist say about that? Well, that's
Speaker 2: the thing that we can't. We can't.
Speaker 1: I mean, you do get this experience of people just
Speaker 1: get this last minute energy that comes through. But if
Speaker 1: you're neurons, if your connections are irreparably damaged, how do
Speaker 1: you get that? How do you come back to being
Speaker 1: completely lucid for a period of time. On top of that,
Speaker 1: with deathbed visions, there have been lots of examples where
Speaker 1: they obtain information that they won't privy to. So as
Speaker 1: the person is dying. They will see. Let's say, there
Speaker 1: have been cases where this person sees their cousin who
Speaker 1: they still believe is alive. They see their cousin in
Speaker 1: the corner of the room. They say, oh, my cousin's
Speaker 1: over there. What they didn't know was that the family
Speaker 1: family hasn't told the patient who's dying that the cousin
Speaker 1: actually passed away, you know, the previous day, and so
Speaker 1: they see them. There was one and this was this
Speaker 1: was written up in a journal. This was actually a doctor,
Speaker 1: a female doctor, who was undergoing pretty severe She was
Speaker 1: in hospital, I think an award, severe fever, other things
Speaker 1: going on, and in that in that state, she sees
Speaker 1: this man she's never seen before. And the man is saying,
Speaker 1: I forget what he was saying. He was saying a
Speaker 1: name or something, and the name was was the colleague
Speaker 1: that was looking after her. And she kept ignoring because
Speaker 1: she thought, it's just a it's just a hallucination. It's
Speaker 1: a vehicle hallucination. I've got massive temperature. And someone so
Speaker 1: ignored her two or three times until finally she said, look,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a man here who's telling me call
Speaker 1: home to her colleague so the colleague calls home. It
Speaker 1: turns out it was her father. Her father was dying
Speaker 1: and he was somehow being able to communicate with this
Speaker 1: person who was ill to pass on a message. Does
Speaker 1: something doesn't make sense?
Speaker 2: That certainly makes well, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I explained it.
Speaker 2: I certainly understand what you're meaning now a message being
Speaker 2: passed on. But part of the problem is you can
Speaker 2: never prove any of these things, can you. If ghosts
Speaker 2: exist and those sort of messages exist from two between
Speaker 2: two dying people separated by significant distance, you can never
Speaker 2: prove it.
Speaker 1: They're all anecdotal anecdotal, and a statistician or a skeptic
Speaker 1: will probably say, well, people people make claims X amount
Speaker 1: of times one of them is likely to come true.
Speaker 1: So you can explain it away like that.
Speaker 2: If you were able to prove some of these things,
Speaker 2: it changed the world. Wouldn't a change? For example, if
Speaker 2: this happens, there could be other dimensions you can be
Speaker 2: you're improving other exemptions. Dimensions exist even though you don't
Speaker 2: know what they are, which opens up the whole alien thing.
Speaker 2: It opens up life after death, it opens up religion.
Speaker 2: It would be enormously significant if it could ever be proven.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it actually makes me wonder do we want.
Speaker 2: To prove it exactly? Do you want to prove it?
Speaker 1: When I started, yes, not Now where my attitude has
Speaker 1: changed over the years, I've gone from looking at this
Speaker 1: phenomena from a strictly scientific perspective. Then I started looking
Speaker 1: into the spiritual aspects. But initially the motivation was to
Speaker 1: make myself more sensitive to these things because I wasn't
Speaker 1: picking up on anything other people were, So I thought,
Speaker 1: if I started meditation, if I start looking at the
Speaker 1: spiritual things, I will develop some other sensory organ that
Speaker 1: will allow me to pick up on these things. But
Speaker 1: during the course of investigations and other stuff, I'm actually
Speaker 1: starting to think, uh, every it's an individual journey for
Speaker 1: every person. If you go into this journey, you've prove
Speaker 1: it to yourself to your own level of satisfaction that
Speaker 1: there is something else there. It is a sense of comfort.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I got irrevocal proof that there
Speaker 1: is that I could go to the community and say, hey,
Speaker 1: this is proof that ghosts. Ghosts exist, and here's a
Speaker 1: way that I can manipulate it to induce this this experience,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I want to share it with
Speaker 1: the scientific community because at this at the current stage,
Speaker 1: it's I can see it one hundred percent becoming abused
Speaker 1: by corporations. If there's a method or a pro call
Speaker 1: that will allow you to tap into another thing, it's
Speaker 1: at this stage I think it's just going to be abused.
Speaker 2: So you're not worried about being mocked again or challenged
Speaker 2: if you've got your refutable proof, you'd be worried about
Speaker 2: the commercialization of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it makes sense. That makes sense. Do we
Speaker 2: need serious study on that basis or not? Do we
Speaker 2: continue serious study? Do you continue in the lab? Do
Speaker 2: you keep looking or do you.
Speaker 1: I think with ghosts, with ghosts and survival of consciousness,
Speaker 1: I think I'm kind in a state where I'm happy
Speaker 1: that individual people that follow or look into that path
Speaker 1: can get a bit bit of a resolution or a
Speaker 1: bit of a comfort in their own journey with other things. So,
Speaker 1: for example, the more mainstream parapsychology, which is essentially the
Speaker 1: mind things like typathy or precognition and those things like that.
Speaker 1: I think the mechanisms of finding the mechanisms of those
Speaker 1: things are actually still pretty interesting and positive. Perhaps, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so potentially. Again, you have to be very
Speaker 1: careful too, because that's also praying to exploit.
Speaker 2: Could you trust the world with it? I think with
Speaker 2: Sudini who said if he could come back after death,
Speaker 2: he would and nobody's seen him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he made up some sort of secret
Speaker 1: code that his wife or something could unlock.
Speaker 2: And would you would I well, hopefully a long way off.
Speaker 2: But when the time passed, when you pass away, would
Speaker 2: you like to come back? Would you promise to come back?
Speaker 1: My understanding is that coming back or stay behind is
Speaker 1: not necessarily in the best interest of you or the
Speaker 1: person who passes away. That the people or the ghosts
Speaker 1: that linger behind tend to be the ones that have
Speaker 1: suffered trauma and are processing things. So necessarily hanging around
Speaker 1: and acting as a ghost and moving objects is in
Speaker 1: some ways hindering your progress.
Speaker 2: So that sort of image of the tormented soul is
Speaker 2: substantiated by what you've seen or investigated. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: tortured soul. So the person who dies a gentle, peaceful
Speaker 2: death in their late nineties after a good life, you
Speaker 2: don't see them as ghosts.
Speaker 1: Not so much. It's not uncommon for in the first
Speaker 1: short period of time that they will make a comeback
Speaker 1: and people will experience, you know, they might see them,
Speaker 1: or they might dream about them as a way of
Speaker 1: comforting the family that they there.
Speaker 2: With Doctor Vladimir Dubai, we're talking to just just finally,
Speaker 2: let's say this week, and you go out and you
Speaker 2: make contact with a ghost, and you're in conversation with somebody.
Speaker 2: You've got no question in your mind that this is
Speaker 2: another being, a supernatural being or a ghost. What would
Speaker 2: you ask it one question? You have a couple?
Speaker 1: Oh jeez, that's throw me, I think, because there's I
Speaker 1: would have a barrage of questions to ask.
Speaker 2: Where would you start? You would have to find out
Speaker 2: something about them, wouldn't you? Who are you? What are you? Where?
Speaker 2: Where are you? Where are you?
Speaker 1: Where are you? And how are you getting through?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: How can I make how can I communicate with you
Speaker 1: in a more effective way? Help us to understand what's
Speaker 1: going on? All those thoughts about what is the afterlife?
Speaker 1: What is what is the soul and consciousness?
Speaker 2: And then you've got the dilemma you had that conversation,
Speaker 2: You've got to tell the world. Yeah, and I say, lads,
Speaker 2: finally lost it.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I've been dismissed.
Speaker 2: It's fascinating stuff. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Thank you, Thank you, doctor Vladimir Dubai. Now,
Speaker 2: just before I leave you to your life, I want
Speaker 2: to first can congratulate you on showing the good sense
Speaker 2: to listen to my podcast. Neil Mitchell asks, why there's
Speaker 2: one rule to this podcast. It's got to be interesting
Speaker 2: and different. I always try to get inside the head
Speaker 2: of the person I'm talking to before I go. I
Speaker 2: wanted to take a moment to thank Three Point Motors
Speaker 2: the Mercedes dealers, for their continuing support sponsoring the podcast.
Speaker 2: They were longtime supporters of my radio program, and I'm
Speaker 2: delighted to say that continues here. I'm something of a
Speaker 2: dinosaur in the radio business. I don't read advertisements, but
Speaker 2: I will recommend the quality of the company and the
Speaker 2: people who run three point many many times. Through our association.
Speaker 2: They've stepped up to help with my charity campaigns. They've
Speaker 2: provided superb support one of my favorite charities, which is
Speaker 2: TLC for Kids. They've provided loan vehicles for people in trouble.
Speaker 2: Usually I didn't even have to ask. I'd hear me
Speaker 2: talking about on radio, some attempt to change the world.
Speaker 2: They'd bring and say, okay, we're in. They are good
Speaker 2: community citizens. On my dealings with them. You determine whether
Speaker 2: they're good car dealers or whether they offer good deals.
Speaker 2: But I know on my dealings they're good people. Three
Speaker 2: point Motors, Epping, Fairfield and Q. If you need them,
Speaker 2: you'll find them